1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: there's Chuck and this is short stuff, a pretty interesting 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: one that comes from our friends at How Stuff Works, 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: I believe, specifically from Robert Attenborough. Yeah, and lots of 5 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: other places. Because this I just saw this all over 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: the news last week. The story of Beethoven's DNA has 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: been researched, and it just I don't know, it's like 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: it hit the news cycle and I saw it in 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of places. I mean, I can understand why. 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: It's very very fascinating, more fascinating than it appears on 11 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: the surface. And the surface is Beethoven was fairly famous 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: for suffering from a lot of terrible health maladies for 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: many years late in his life until his death, very 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: most famously his hearing loss, which is just fascinating that 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 1: he was still able to compose with hearing loss. That's 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: just insane. Yeah, But people, some people are very much 17 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: fast sinated with Beethoven, even more than other people. And 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: one of those people is Justin Beg who is a 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,639 Speaker 1: student of biological anthropology at UC Santa Cruz and also 20 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: an enormous Beethoven enthusiast. And he said Hey, I want 21 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: to put my two things together and figure out what 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: the heck was going on with Beethoven's body. Yeah, and 23 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: now we back up a little bit and talk a 24 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: little bit about DNA and the challenges of taking DNA 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: from a dead person to figure anything out. It's it's 26 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: not that easy. DNA from a live human is much 27 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: easier to work with in sequence, but if you're trying 28 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: to get good DNA from a body, you're gonna want 29 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: teeth ideally, or the petris bone in the skull, which 30 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: we did not have from Beethoven. But during Beethoven's day, 31 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: collecting locks from brilliant people's hair was a thing, and 32 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: so by virtue of that, it turns out there were 33 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: quite a few samples of Beethoven's locks around the world, 34 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: and they ended up with what they thought was eight 35 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: of them. Yes, Tristan beg had eight that he was 36 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: able to access. None of them had roots, which was 37 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: made the whole thing much more difficult. If you have 38 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: a root, you got a much better chance of extracting 39 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: a whole genome from it, right. Yeah, But plucking a 40 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: whole handful of hair from Beethoven said was not allowed 41 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: Beethoven did not want that to happen. He said, sure, 42 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: you can use some old timey scissors on me, or 43 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: maybe even a sharp knife, and I'll sit here and 44 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: let you do it. But I do not pluck my hair. 45 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: So that meant that the DNA in there in this 46 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: hair was composed of short, broken fragments. But Tristan Beg 47 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: is such a Beethoven enthusiast and such a student of 48 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: biological anthropology that he said, I don't care. I'm going 49 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: to piece together different fragments of DNA from these hair samples, 50 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: from each hair sample to create basically as close to 51 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: a net profile as I possibly can for each of 52 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: the eight locks of hairs. And he did it. That's right. 53 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: I was so trying to come up with a joke 54 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: about plucking hair, and what do you think? I am 55 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: a harpsichord player. And then I tried to think of 56 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: a like maybe Bach or somebody I couldn't remember who 57 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: was most notable for their harpsichord work. And then I 58 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: thought maybe Beethoven had some harpsichord stuff, and I bailed, 59 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: But I was just in my head that entire time. 60 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: Oh man, you missed some great stuff. Men. All apologies 61 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: all to think of a joke that I missed the 62 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: opportunity of, but at least you got to explain it, 63 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: all right. So the big reveal is is that he 64 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: ended up with two locks of hair that had with 65 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: DNA sampling where they were like, all right, it's western 66 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: central Europe. We got great providence records, yeah, going back 67 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: to yeah, going back to the early nineteenth century. So 68 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: these two, we feel really good about three more that 69 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: are genetically identical to those, So that's also probably Beethoven. 70 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: And this is pretty good providence records, So we think 71 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: these are for sure Beethoven's. But the other three are 72 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: problematic because one is a woman, so that's somebody got 73 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: you know, probably paid way too much money for fake 74 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: Beethoven locks. Yeah, and then another is a little side note. 75 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: Beethoven would probably be mad about that, because there are 76 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: no side notes. Each notice as important as the last. Yes, 77 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: the notes that I wrote. But the side note is 78 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: that that lock, it turns out, had been previously used 79 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: to conclude that Beethoven had lead poisoning, and it turns 80 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: out that probably wasn't even Beethoven's hair, right, So the 81 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: upshot of the whole thing is is that he had 82 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: on his hands now five locks of hair genetically identical 83 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: to one another, two of which were basically one percent 84 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: guaranteed Beethoven's because they had Providence records. So as he 85 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: had five locks of Beethoven's hair to work with. So 86 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: I say, Chuck, that that is a great point to 87 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: take our ad break. Let's do it all right. So 88 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: here we are with Beethoven's hair. And they did some 89 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: research on his DNA and they came back with some 90 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: pretty interesting results, one of which and they kind of 91 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: figured this, but they were like, all right, his hearing 92 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: loss wasn't genetic. It rarely is genetic anyway when you 93 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: have adult onset hearing loss. So they kind of figured 94 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: that was coming and that was kind of proved out. 95 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: But they said, he does have poopy pants a lot. Yeah, 96 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: he suffers from GI issues, and he has liver disease 97 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,239 Speaker 1: or had liver disease. Yeah. So they could not find 98 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: anything that they could connect to the GI problems. It 99 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: sounds like he just had some bad clams that stayed 100 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: with him or some sort of bad luck. But it 101 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: wasn't a genetic thing. But the thing that they did 102 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: connect to his genetics. His genes were his liver issues. Yeah, 103 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: apparently he suffered from pretty bad cerrosis. It looks like 104 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: they know from just sort of historical record that he 105 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: did have attacks of jaundice, a pretty clear issue with 106 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,559 Speaker 1: your liver going on. Yeah, but they actually found genetic proof. 107 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: They found particular variant two copies of the p and 108 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: p LA three gene linked to cirrhosis, and then single 109 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: copies of two variants of a gene that causes hemochromatosis nice, 110 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: another liver condition. And then they also found a little 111 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: surprise and that I don't think they even knew about 112 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: this at all until then, that he had hepatitis B. Yes, 113 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: at the very least in the final months of his life, 114 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: possibly before. The thing is is that's not scandalous. A 115 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: lot of people in Europe had he be at the time. 116 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: Another thing that a lot of people did at the 117 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: time was drink lots and lots of booze by today's standards, 118 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: And they'd long been question about whether Beethoven's jaundice was 119 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: brought on by liver disease brought on by excessive drinking. 120 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: And apparently there's even you know, record that mentions he 121 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: liked to drink, but it was not clear how much 122 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: he liked to drink and if he liked to drink 123 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: more than the average person. So apparently Tristan Beg went 124 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: one step further, examined records as closely as they could, 125 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: and said, I think he just drank like a normal amount, Like, yeah, 126 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: it'd be a lot today, but that's not what causes 127 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: liver problems. It was genetic, right, pretty interesting stuff. Have 128 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: you ever seen Immortal Beloved the Beethoven movie Gary Oldman? No, 129 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: and I have not. It was good. I think I 130 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: think it was nineties. I want to say it was nineties. 131 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: It was good. I enjoyed it. But when's the last 132 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: time you saw the professional with Gary Oldman? That's been 133 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: a while. I saw it a month ago. It's good, 134 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: but it holds up even better than it was back. Yeah, 135 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: it's amazing. And Natalie Portman being twelve like out acts 136 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: everybody else on the screen. It's nuts man that she's great. 137 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: That whole movie is just so good. Leon Um. The 138 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: Immortal Beloved is good, it's not. It's not Amadeus level Um, 139 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: as evidence by the fact that it didn't like clean 140 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: up at the Academy Awards. But it was pretty good. 141 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: So just remind me Amadeus was played by the guy 142 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: who who was in Animal House, right, Yeah, okay, I 143 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: wanted to Abraham. Yeah if Murray Abraham was was Salieri? Right? 144 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: And boy boy, that was good. I want to see 145 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: that again soon. That's a good one. I've not ever 146 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: seen it. I never got around to it. Hmm. I'm 147 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: a Dais is good. It's worth a look if you 148 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: ever get a hanker. And for nineteen I think that 149 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: was eighties biopic, Yes for sure, because the theme song 150 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: rock Me I'm a Dais hit the charts in the 151 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: eighties like Wildfires. Well that's it for short stuff, everybody. 152 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: If you wanted to know more about Beethoven, you couldn't possibly. 153 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: Stuff you should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 154 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 155 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.