1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot com. Sometimes science goes too far, 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: Dog Matters twisted but true. Wednesday's at ten on Science. Hey, 5 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Happy New 6 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: Year too. Huh. Yeah, that's Chuck Bryant, Charles W. Bryant, 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: baby here himself. Yeah, he's always chubby me No, baby 8 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: New Year Chuck. Yeah, with the ears. Yeah, poor kids. 9 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: He always has like kind of curly hair, which I'm 10 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: I'm not a com portion too. Yeah. You know, growing 11 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: up watching the little Claymation Happy New Year baby thing, 12 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,319 Speaker 1: the baby New Year. Remember the Huge years. Oh, that's 13 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: so I was just talking about. That was like the 14 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: little stock claymation like Rudolph. Yeah, but there was one 15 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: for for New Year's and it was the baby that 16 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: had the huge ears. When he took his hat off, 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: his ears would pop out and everyone would chastise him. 18 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: What did it sound like when he took his ears 19 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: out like that? It sounded like actually, but always felt 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: bad because I thought it was a cute little claymation baby. Yeah, 21 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: it was that the crux of it that, like he 22 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: just had big ears and everybody laughed at him. Yeah. 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: I can't remember how it ented he finally found a 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: home or something. I don't know. You're good, because there's 25 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: nothing sadder than a homeless baby on New Year's yea 26 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: with big ears, Chuck, Josh, have you ever heard of Herophilus? 27 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: I have? You want to talk a bit about herofilus 28 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: journey back to fourth century BC, or as you like 29 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: to say, b c E the new BC. Um he 30 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: was that he's known as the father of anatomy. Yeah, 31 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: and one of the ways that he became known as 32 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:56,279 Speaker 1: the father of anatomy was by um dissecting vivisecting live 33 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: human beings. Yes, live, well, I was about to say 34 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: live cald ever, But a cad ever is dead, live 35 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: human human patients dissecting for for science, right, and I 36 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: believe they were they were criminals right many times. Yes, 37 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: So we're talking about human experimentation. We're basing this on 38 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: an article written by the fine esteemed writer Robert Lamb 39 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: and he starts out paid zero with um. This account 40 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:29,839 Speaker 1: of horofilis uh cutting through the eyeball of a guy 41 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: who was strapped to a table and I guess something 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: stuffed in his mouth to muffle the screams. But his 43 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: eyeball is being dissected in front of a group of 44 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: surgeons by Horaflis. Please once more, the master pots flesh 45 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: enters the bloody maze of otteries and muscle. You know, 46 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: we should have gotten r l in here to read 47 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: it himself. Good stuff. So yeah, um, apparently this guy 48 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: that um that that Robert's writing about, this victim was 49 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: one of more than six hundred that were vivisected at 50 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: the hands of Herophilis over the course of his lifetime, right, yes, 51 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: for alive prisoners. Yeah, so that's kind of sickening. It 52 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: is horrific, but it was apparently par for the course, right, yeah, 53 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: the time. Sure, So all these people, why would you 54 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: why would you dissect a live person or vivisect a 55 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: live person. I think it's dissect if it is dead, 56 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: and vivisect if they're alive, is it? I believe? So? Well, 57 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: I mean there's there's there's reasons for it. You wouldn't 58 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: want to justify it. But they were doing that because 59 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: sometimes you just need a human to perform an experiment 60 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: on and sometimes a kid ever didn't do the job. 61 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: And before they were scruples, they would, you know, do 62 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: it on a live person instead of like an animal 63 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: test right. Apparently back in horafulis is age. Also, they 64 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: thought that air was carried in the circulatory system rather 65 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: than blood, which is weird because if you vivisector person, 66 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: blood comes out, although I imagine air does too since 67 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: you can't see it. They're like, oh, let's air. This 68 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: is just something. And this guy's the father of anatomy. 69 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: He is. Come on, here's the big ironic twist. All 70 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: of his writings that he all the notes he took, 71 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: all the the scholarly works he created based on the 72 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,559 Speaker 1: deaths or the intolerable pain experienced by these six people 73 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: were all lost when the Library of Alexandria burned in 74 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: uh to. This is rapidly devolving into a sound effect show. Yeah, 75 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: it's so um should we tell people what that is? 76 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: Jerry got us a little gift for Christmas, a little 77 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: uh sound machine, And the funny thing is that she 78 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: asked us to keep it on the d L and 79 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: we just told a hundred thousand people. Yeah. Yeah. The 80 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: other funny thing, and so she actually said we could 81 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: use it. I thought she was gonna say, well, here, 82 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: but you can never use this, right, Yeah, and she 83 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: encouraged us to use it as well. So chuck. The 84 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: idea of somebody writhing under the knife while a guy 85 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: like Corophilis or anybody else with a sharp sharp object 86 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: cuts his eyeball open to examine the nerves inside. Uh, 87 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: is a pretty horrific idea, indeed, Um. And the problem 88 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: is is this kind of thing didn't end in a 89 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: d two seventy two. Now it continued on. Apparently history 90 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: is littered with human experimentation. Yes, so much so that 91 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: there were body snatching problems in the nineteenth century because 92 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: medical schools needed bodies, right they You couldn't in the 93 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: nineteenth century. By the nineteenth century, you couldn't vivisect anybody 94 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: you weren't supposed to. And also because of the puritanical ideals, Um, 95 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: you couldn't do any kind of um dissection on cadavers. 96 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: Right now, of course you can, right, which is a 97 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: good move, because, like you said, there was a lot 98 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: of grave robbing going on to supply the medical schools 99 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: who still needed this knowledge. Um. And wanted, and we're 100 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: willing to pay grave robbers for it. Time. Do you 101 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: remember back in ninety nine when they found some bones, 102 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: actually hundred bones in the basement of Medical College of Georgia. Really, yeah, 103 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: I did not know that. Yeah, they were they dated 104 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: back to the nineteenth century, and they were linked to 105 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: um rob graves. Yeah. That's crazy, isn't it? It is 106 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: so well, you know, that's if you're dealing with kidavers 107 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: if you're there. Also, if you wanted to experiment on 108 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: a live um living thing, then you would now have 109 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: to go the route of like chimps and rabbits and 110 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: mice rats, right, which actually, what we've done, from what 111 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: I understand, is with human experimentation, we've put lower making 112 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: air quotes here, lower species in between us and initial discovery. Right. Yeah. 113 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: The problem was back in the day though, they did 114 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: the same thing, but they considered lower species other humans 115 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: specifically convicts, yeah, or poor are in destitute, diseased, Yeah exactly, 116 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: but convicts for sure, convicts have pretty much always gotten 117 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: it pretty bad, um as far as human experimentation goes. 118 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, um, so these days we we do put 119 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: h rabbits and rats and and um, chimps and macaques 120 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: and in between us and um, you know, not knowing 121 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: what a drug will do or something like that. But really, 122 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: ultimately it still ends up to humans. And one of 123 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: the reasons why is because you know, you can't you 124 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: they we don't even know whether or not animals experience happiness, 125 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: you know, do they How can we figure out if 126 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: they're hallucinating? Yeah? Sure, they can't help self report. Yeah, 127 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: you gotta ask questions every now and then. Right, and 128 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: then also, I mean, if you're doing if you're making 129 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: a drug for humans, you eventually have to find out 130 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: exactly what it does to humans. It's not gonna have 131 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: the same effect on a rat, although it will probably 132 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: be close. And what we'll get into that in a minute. 133 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: All right, should we talk about some of the horrific 134 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: things that have happened throughout our history? Judge, Well, don't 135 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: forget the whole him. There's another there's another route you 136 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: could take it self experimentation, Yes, living your living self, 137 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: experimenting on yourself, which I mean there have been some 138 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: famous examples of this. Yes. Famously, Pierre and Mary Curie 139 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: earned a Nobel Prize in Physics from radiation research, and 140 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: they did this pie taping radium salts to their skin 141 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: and seeing what happened. So that's one way to do it. 142 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: Another guy who famously tried his his research out on 143 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: himself as Albert Hoffman, the guy who created LSD, right, 144 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: and apparently he had a diary where he writes about 145 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: his bike ride home after injecting himself with LSD and 146 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: he had no bike. No, he had a bike, but 147 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: he was like, Wow, nothing is real And I really 148 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: feel like listening to pink Floyd right now. Yeah, yet 149 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: to be discovered, pink Floyd yet to be born. I 150 00:08:54,000 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: think even um so Chuck self experimentation has its own flaws, right, 151 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: if you're vivisecting an eyeball and you do it to yourself, 152 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: you can't do that more than once. You probably wouldn't 153 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: even do it that one time, yea. So really there 154 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: is a lot to be gained from vivisecting human beings. Well, 155 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: we don't do it. And one of the reasons why 156 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: is because it's horrific. So yes, let's talk about some 157 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: of the horrific human experiments that litter history. Jay Mary 158 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: and Simms. Is that name? Ringabelle No? That is uh 159 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: considered to be the father of gynecology. Oh yeah, Jay 160 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: Mary and Sims, Sims and uh. He even became the 161 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: president of the A M A and eighteen seventy six. 162 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: But he developed um experimental surgeries by testing them on 163 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: African slaves many times without anesthesia. Yeah, dark side for sure, man. Yeah, 164 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: I would definitely call that a dark side. Yeah. He 165 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,359 Speaker 1: gets lauded probably in many circles still today he does. Um. Apparently, 166 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: Uh that was we think of the Nazis especially, and 167 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: we'll talk about them in a minute. But the US 168 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: has a really shady history of human experimentation. Um. A 169 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: guy named Dr Leo Stanley Uh injected prisoners at San 170 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: Quentin with animal testinges too uh slow or reverse aging, 171 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: which did not work out. Um, Cholerado experiments on the 172 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 1: Philippines conducted by US nineteen fifteen, Palagra experiments in Mississippi, right. Uh. 173 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: And then apparently we were talking about how prisoners have 174 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,559 Speaker 1: always gotten a bad rap up. Until the nineteen seventies 175 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: in the United States, pretty much all pharmaceuticals were tested 176 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: on convicts. You did not want to break a law. Now, 177 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: I wonder you know how people hearken back to like 178 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: the the Golden Age when there was less crime and 179 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: less violence and all that. I wonder how much of 180 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: it had to do with the fact that if you 181 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: went to prison, like you would be experimented on. Yeah, 182 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: I wonder if you know that, though it probably wasn't 183 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: why they reported. Until you get to prison. Then you're like, 184 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: oh oops, yeah that's yeah. Had I known, right, but 185 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: I imagine recitativism rates what what's a bone head word? 186 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: We're pretty low. Yeah, you're probably right, so chuck. You know. Also, 187 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: the United States was huge into compulsory sterilization, right, I 188 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: did not know that the eugenics movement. Okay, so between 189 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: I guess the early nineteen hundreds, the first decade of 190 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: the twentieth century up until the seventies, I think maybe 191 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: the ninety one, uh sixty four thousand people in the 192 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: United States were sterilized against their will, like epileptics, the 193 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: mentally handicapped, blind, deaf, mutes, um schizophrenics, and Native Americans 194 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: against their will, sometimes unknowingly unbelievable. Yeah, which you could. 195 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: That's not necessarily an experiment because you know exactly what's 196 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: gonna happen. The prison is going to be sterilized. But um, 197 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: if you look at it as eugenics, it's it is 198 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: kind of larger experiment to basically created great race and 199 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: then the eugenics the popularity. I mean it was well 200 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: known this was going on. This was in a secret 201 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: government program like mk ultra, right, and there was public 202 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: support for it until World War Two, which remember actually 203 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: can you remember to the future, Yes, when we talk 204 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: about mercenaries, right, World War Two changed everything we did. Yeah, 205 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: the Nazis really lead the way when it comes to 206 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 1: human experimentation. Um, as everyone knows against the Jews, Gypsies, 207 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 1: anyone they felt like targeting. They would do things like 208 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: freezing them to research hypothermia and then actually came it 209 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: became huge later their hypothermia research is like really used 210 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: still yeah, well we'll get into the ethics. Uh. They 211 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: put them in the compression chambers to test the effects 212 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: of high altitude flight, which it doesn't get much worse 213 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: than that, and a sterilization experiments as well, like the 214 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: US was doing. They would use a phosphorus incendiary phosphorus 215 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: devices to figure out how to treat phosphorus burns. Japan 216 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: was another country. Their Unit seven thirty one very famous 217 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: unit reportedly killed more than ten thousand Chinese, Korean, and 218 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: Russian POWs to develop biological weapons and tests of stuff 219 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: out on them basically, right. Um. So the Nazis in 220 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: particular face the music at Nuremberg, right um. And there 221 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: was this part to the Nuremberg trials called the Doctor's trials. Uh. 222 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: And I think a bunch of the guys, like seventeen 223 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: were convicted, and most of them I think were hanged. Yeah, um. 224 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: And a lot of these guys cases were Dude, we 225 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: didn't break any laws. There's no lawful outline of what 226 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: to do when you're experimenting on a human, and a 227 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: lot of this stuff followed the same kind of protocol 228 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: that we had before the war, right right, which is 229 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: just horrendous, but in a lot of cases it was 230 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,599 Speaker 1: actually true. Right. So one of the results of the 231 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: Nuremberg Trial was the Nuremberg Code, where the international community said, 232 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: all right, we need to outline some some guidelines for 233 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: human experimentation. And if I think there's like ten points 234 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: to it, ten large overviews UH to human experimentation guidelines, 235 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: and it focuses on UM reducing UH, fear and pain 236 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: discomfort in the experiment. Subjects that can't be coerced, that 237 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: has to be willing, that have to be informed. What's 238 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: this covered by? What's that under? You know, like what 239 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: document or organization that's under I don't know, probably the 240 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: u WIN. I would think the u N would have 241 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: something to do with that. But yes, but it's very 242 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: famous called the Nuremberg Code, right, and it solves like 243 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: the moral quandary uh jevercy Um extreme measures, Gene Hackman, 244 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: Hugh Grant, all right, so you know, like in the end, 245 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: I think they're in a sewer somehow. Gene Hackman's like, 246 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: if you had to kill one to save a million, 247 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't you have to do it? And so the Nuremberg 248 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: Code solves that. And the answer, by the way, is no, 249 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: you wouldn't kill one. Yeah, that's the old, the age 250 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: old question, though, right, kill one to save many, which 251 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: is a very utilitarian view of of looking at things like, yes, 252 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: you kill one person to save a million, of course 253 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: you do, but we as an international collective have decided 254 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: that you don't do that. One person's life is worth 255 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: as much as a million people's potential lives. So that 256 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: brings us to The real quandary that with human experimentation 257 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: is what do you do with this information that has 258 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: gained from these awful, awful experiments. Um. A lot of 259 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: detractors will say that to use this information supports human experimentation, right, 260 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: But then another way of looking at it is to 261 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: propose like kind of do a thought experiment of all right, 262 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: let's say that you are you walk in on one 263 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: of these experiments. You say, your death is inevitable and 264 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: it's going to be a painful, horrible death. But you 265 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: can choose whether or not this data that was that 266 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: your results from your death is suppressed or used. Which 267 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: one do you want? And then you know that most 268 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: people would say, well, if I'm going to die anyway, 269 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: I would want this data to be used. That's the 270 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: argument the other side uses, Yeah, the US cut a 271 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: little deal though with you one. I know we were 272 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: it's such we have such a shady history, like we 273 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: used Nazi scientists to get us to the moon. Well, 274 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: this was particularly to keep it from falling into the 275 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: wrong hands. So we thought, hey, rather than give that 276 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: to the Russians Une, let's cut a deal where the 277 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: officers responsible for this good immunity from prosecution and war crimes, 278 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: and we get the data, and we'll even give you 279 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: a little stipend. Yeah, on the side, we'll give you 280 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: some money probably way to come up with those biological weapons. 281 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: Nicely done. Um, Like we said, the Nazi hypothermia experiments, 282 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: which were pretty brutal apparently, um the they would put 283 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: you in an icy vat of water with a thermometer 284 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: in erectum and they found that most people died, went 285 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: unconscious and died around when their body temperature seventy degrees fahrenheit. Right, yeah, 286 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: it's it's such a useful information. But no, the useful 287 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: information came in they were looking for ways to revive 288 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: people suffering from hypothermia because the Germans were losing so 289 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: many people on the Eastern Front in Germany. Um that 290 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: they actually did figure out ways of quickly reviving people 291 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: suffering from hypothermia. So hypotherp post war hypothermia researchers are like, dude, 292 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: these people, as ghastly as these experiments are, they figured 293 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: out how to revive people suffering from hypothermia. We need 294 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: that information. So I think with with that, UM, I 295 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: guess that group leading the charge Nazi data has been 296 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: used in a lot of ways, but then there it 297 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: should be cited, I think was the compromise that they 298 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: came up with. Yeah, and it actually worked the other 299 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: way to Jewish doctors would later study um victims of 300 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: starvation in the ghetto and the word slaw ghetto and 301 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: they use that to aid in the study of UM 302 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,479 Speaker 1: hunger associated disease. So they found a way to use 303 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: it at least. And so we were talking also about 304 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: how the US has a nice long history of horrible 305 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: stuff like the Tuskegee experiments. You want to talk about that. Yes, 306 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: a forty year study of a syphilis began in nineteen 307 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: thirty two, and they use African Americans who sought treatment 308 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: for this disease, and they basically straight up lied and 309 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: deceived them thinking they were being treated. Right. They they 310 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: actually didn't use any kind of medical intervention because they 311 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: wanted to watch the progression of syphilis. Yeah, they want 312 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: to see it gets worse, and so they could chart 313 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: everything out and they had no idea. And then I 314 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: guess finally in uh No, the US issues a public 315 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: apology for for this and there's still some people alive 316 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: who were experimented on unbelievable. Yeah, and you know, we've 317 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: we've documented the LSD experiments that unsuspecting Americans were dosed 318 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: and the mk Ultra project. We did a whole show 319 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: on that. Didn't me Yeah, it was like our best one, 320 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: didn't we did you forget? Well it was a long 321 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: time ago, so yeah, well you were kind of out 322 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: of it if you remember. The beginning of that one 323 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: was oh, that's right. Yeah, we did a role playing 324 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: so Chuck. There was kind of a huge sea change 325 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: in the way that human experimentation was looked at and 326 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: carried out when the f d A was established in 327 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: the thirties. All of a sudden, there were review boards 328 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: and panels. Um, the universities kind of stepped in and said, 329 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: all right, we play a big role in this. We're 330 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: gonna start establishing stricter oversight of human experimentation. And that's 331 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: kind of the course that we've followed since then. Right, 332 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: drug trials, drug trials exactly? Do you know any human 333 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: guinea pigs? Now I've never done it, but um, you know, 334 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: phase one drug trials is usually where you'll get the 335 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: most folks, because you need healthy, healthy individuals who are 336 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: willing to risk their health for money and basically what 337 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: they're doing in these phase one trial or you know 338 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: when you see these commercials that rattle off a hundred 339 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: side effects, they're positively frightening. They get these from giving 340 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: these uh these medications to people and seeing what happens. Basically, Yeah, 341 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb put it really well. He said that if 342 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: your bottle of medication says that it might result in 343 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: bowl bowel control problems or suicidal thoughts, you can bet 344 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: that someone received a paycheck for experiencing them at some 345 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: point exactly. So that's what they know. So that's phase one. 346 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: Phase two deals with dosing and efficiency, and phase three 347 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: enlist um actual patients who need this treatment, not not 348 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: healthy people, and people who volunteer for phase one clinical 349 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: trials are uh handsomely paid depending on the risk involves. 350 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: That's one of the problems. Yeah, And I mean it's 351 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: kind of like a vacation. You're you're fed, and you're 352 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: put up maybe in a hotel or the hospital room 353 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: has um like a video game console, you watch movies 354 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: or whatever, and they just shoot you full of something 355 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: and then come in like every fifteen minutes or hour 356 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: whatever and say, you know, like have you seen that 357 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: leopard can you were talking to earlier again, you know, 358 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But that's one of the problems 359 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: is that some of these folks bounced from experiment to 360 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: experiment and you know, kind of make a half asked 361 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: living off of this, right, I guess you can. I mean, 362 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: especially if you're dedicated. He talks about Lamb talks about 363 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: a an article in The New Yorker that is about 364 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: it's called guinea pigging, I believe, and it's about this 365 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,239 Speaker 1: soap culture of clinical drug trial participants who have their 366 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: own like publications that show like who's what upcoming drug 367 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: trials are, are are in the pipeline and how much 368 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: they're gonna pay and that kind of stuff. So there's 369 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: a concern that, like, yeah, these people are kind of 370 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: hooked on this lifestyle. My thing is is like to 371 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,479 Speaker 1: each his own, sure, you know, yeah, I mean, if 372 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: they're if there are no laws being broken and they're 373 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: getting paid and they're willing to do this instead of 374 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: going to get a chop delivering pizzas, then you know, frankly, 375 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: if they can get my pizza to me and stay safe, 376 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: not harm other people, and deliver a delicious pizza. Still 377 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: I don't care if they're in the midst of a 378 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: drug trial. Right. Then, here's another thing I didn't know 379 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: that I thought was interesting in this article is that 380 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: they kind of put the pedal to the metal when 381 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: it comes to these trials because a US drug patent 382 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: only last for twenty years, and so if you're hung 383 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: up for a decade and research and testing, which can happen, 384 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: then that they don't start it over once you get 385 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: it approved. You've got only ten years left to make 386 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: you know, serious money, and they speed these things along. 387 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: They do. Now, if you're running it through university, they 388 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: generally have well, universities have a reputation for being total 389 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: sticklers when it comes to um institutional review boards, right um. 390 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: So as a result, I think that a lot of 391 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: drug companies have found that if you run it instead 392 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: through a private organization that does the clinical trials for you, 393 00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, you can walk around 394 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: all out of these ethical guidelines or you know, safe 395 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: conditions and yet again outsourcing to private contractors for money. 396 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: It's uh, just it's the way to get around things exactly. 397 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: So that's medical experimentation. There's a this is a really 398 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: cool article. It's slightly outside of the how Stuff Works voice. 399 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb put his all in all into it. He 400 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: put his Lamb stamp on it. He did at the 401 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: very least. You gotta read paid zero, and I defy 402 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: you to just repaid zero. For those of you out there, 403 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: a page zero is really page one. We just that's 404 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: the insider lingo here and we still Chuck and I 405 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: have worked here for more than two years and we've 406 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: still never figured out why they call it paid zero. 407 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: So if you want to read paid zero of how 408 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: Human Experimentation Works, you can type in human experimentation in 409 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: the handy search bar at how stuff Works dot com. 410 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: And I guess you could say that that leads us 411 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 1: to listener. May. Yes, Josh, this is about in our 412 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: Co States. I remember Narco States. I'm gonna call it 413 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: a Narco state email. Uh, this is from Christer who 414 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: Actually you had to write Christer back and say are 415 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: you're a boy or a girl because I've never heard 416 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: that name? And Christos a dude. So Christo says I 417 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: currently live in Wires, Mexico. What yeah, exactly, because we 418 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: covered wires pretty thoroughly. Yeah, it is sad to stand 419 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: out as a dangerous narco zone rather than being recognized 420 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: for a decent achievement. Uh, but things here are indeed 421 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: pretty crazy. Murders are super high, and I've tragically lost 422 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: some friends throughout the year. As if this wasn't enough, 423 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 1: even the government is messing with us, as I had 424 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: an experience last July my parents happened on a clothing shop. 425 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: We were asked by some federal agents to give out 426 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: a big amount of money two d and fifty thousand 427 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: U S. Dollars just because, of course, my family refused 428 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: to do so. A week later, they came with an 429 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: order to close and empty my parents shop and locked 430 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: up my dad. We gave a smaller amount just so 431 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: he was released and we thought it would just in there. 432 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: But to our surprise, a month later, we were surrounded 433 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: by about twenty agents holding an apprehension order to take 434 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: both of my parents, charging them for supposedly commercializing priate 435 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: of clothing, which was a trump up charged I know. 436 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 1: I was left alone with my three younger brothers for 437 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: more than three months until the agent on top agreed 438 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: to let them out of prison for fifty dollars and 439 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: the case was closed. The sick experience, and thank god 440 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: it was finally over. Throughout those three months of grief, 441 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: you guys were right there with me, and you were 442 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: a nice distraction from my awful situation at a time 443 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: that was clearly troubling, and I want to thank you 444 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: for that. It was probably doesn't mean the same to 445 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,479 Speaker 1: you guys, but it was helpful in some way for me. 446 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: I no longer want to live in this place, and 447 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: I'm just looking forward to moving to the US as 448 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: soon as possible, I know. Uh. So we just wanted 449 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: to share this and say Merry Christmas. So um, we 450 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: had some angry people right in by the way about me, 451 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: saying we should just drop the borders and let anyone in. 452 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 1: And I just want to say to those folks, think 453 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: about people like Krister here who are just dying to 454 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: get to the United States because of of stuff like this, 455 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: and the US represents, you know, something, something great to them, 456 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: and uh, we shouldn't forget that. So that this I'm 457 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: on my high hearts and now I'm getting off of it. 458 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: Thanks ju. Do we have a horse effect? Now, let's see, 459 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: we've got something close to it. And that would be 460 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: weird if you have an email about escaping certain death, 461 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: being extorted by the Mexican military, or any kind of 462 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: unjust um story, right true. Yeah, you can send it 463 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: in an email to stuff podcast at Wait. Happy New Year, everybody, Yeah, 464 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: Happy New Year. Be safe. Christoper, We're glad you're alive. Yes, 465 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: we're glad. Everybody who made it through two thousand and 466 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: nine made it through two thousand nine. Act how stuff 467 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: works dot com. For more on this and thousands of 468 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: other topics, visit how stuff works dot com. Want more 469 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: how stuff works, check out our blogs on the house. 470 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: Stuff works dot com home page. Brought to you by 471 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you