Speaker 1: Every week we learned something new. And this journey is
Speaker 1: never linear and it never will be. I look at
Speaker 1: it a lot riding a back cup hail. Some days
Speaker 1: you want to strike with a son out and I
Speaker 1: as you head down, he'll like that. And it's pulling
Speaker 1: a rain. You have a farther back in the bushes,
Speaker 1: or you keep peddling. Welcome to the one you feed
Speaker 1: throughout time. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the
Speaker 1: thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or
Speaker 1: you are what you think, ring true. And yet for
Speaker 1: many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf. Hi Everybody Today is a special episode. It's
Speaker 1: a collaboration with Eric and three other guests called the
Speaker 1: Dry January Collaboration. It includes sober Dave from the One
Speaker 1: for the Road podcast, Casey from the Hello Someday podcast,
Speaker 1: and a previous The One You Feed interviewee, Jill from
Speaker 1: the Sober Powered podcast. They discussed not only sobriety in general,
Speaker 1: but also their specific stories and the concept that there
Speaker 1: are many ways to live a sober life based on
Speaker 1: one's needs and lifestyle. Welcome to the show, Eric, Dave,
Speaker 1: and Casey. I thought that we could get started with
Speaker 1: a a little quick intro of who we are and
Speaker 1: what your story is. Eric, do you want to start
Speaker 1: us off? Sure, I'd be glad too. So my name
Speaker 1: is Eric Zimmer. I am the host of the One
Speaker 1: You Feed podcast, which is a interview style podcast where
Speaker 1: we talk about really what it takes to live a
Speaker 1: good life. You know, how do we how do we thrive?
Speaker 1: How do we prosper. I've had the pleasure of having
Speaker 1: Jill on the show. I've appeared on her show, so
Speaker 1: there's a quality of guests. We get lots of great guests.
Speaker 1: You know. My sobriety story started a long time ago.
Speaker 1: I got sober for the first time in and it
Speaker 1: was a homeless heroin addict at that point, and you know,
Speaker 1: kind of a really low bottom. I mentioned homeless, I
Speaker 1: weighed a hundred pounds, I had hepatitis C. I was
Speaker 1: looking at potentially going to jail for fifty years. Things
Speaker 1: were not going well. So I got sober. We're going
Speaker 1: to talk more about how all that happened later in
Speaker 1: the episode. But I got sober, and I stayed sober
Speaker 1: for about eight years, and then a couple of different
Speaker 1: things happened, and I end it up going back out
Speaker 1: and drinking. I didn't go back to heroin, but I
Speaker 1: was drinking. I was smoking marijuana. And eventually, by the
Speaker 1: fact that I'm appearing on a podcast about sobriety, you
Speaker 1: can tell that that second experiment did not end well,
Speaker 1: and so I had to get sober again. But it
Speaker 1: was a very different experience because the first time was
Speaker 1: this extremely low bottom. The second time I was on
Speaker 1: the outside thriving. I was making more money than I've
Speaker 1: ever made. I had just been promoted into the best
Speaker 1: position I've ever had, had a nice car and a
Speaker 1: nice house, and all those things were all in place,
Speaker 1: and yet I knew on the inside I was just
Speaker 1: as sick. So I got sober, and fast forward from there,
Speaker 1: I had a career in the software business. I founded
Speaker 1: a solar energy company and that failed, And when that
Speaker 1: failed is when I sort of launched this podcast. And
Speaker 1: since launching the podcast, I've gone on to do lots
Speaker 1: of one on one coaching with people from around the world.
Speaker 1: I created a program called Spiritual Habits, and I have
Speaker 1: the podcast. So I think that's my quick version. Thank you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's hard to summarize it all in in two seconds?
Speaker 1: Did I stay within my a lotted time? You did? Dave?
Speaker 1: Do you want to tell us a little bit about
Speaker 1: who you are and in your sobriety journey? Yeah? Sure,
Speaker 1: thanks Jill, Thanks Eric. My name is Dave Wilson, aka
Speaker 1: Sober Dave. Yeah, my story started back when I was
Speaker 1: fourteen years old and I had the misfortune of my
Speaker 1: mom leaving the family home and I got in with
Speaker 1: a group of lads from school. Actually that led me
Speaker 1: down a path of stealing, drinking, bunking off school. You know,
Speaker 1: I didn't actually finish school, and then I kind of
Speaker 1: lived in normal late teens early twenties. Well we'll go out,
Speaker 1: but I would work hard and just drinking weekends. But
Speaker 1: when I reached thirty two, I was introduced to a
Speaker 1: local pub in the UK. There was an old fashioned pub,
Speaker 1: you know, with a sloon bar and a public bar,
Speaker 1: and the public bar was where all the builders and
Speaker 1: workmen used to go to, and the other sideways, so
Speaker 1: listers and you know, their suits, we used to call them.
Speaker 1: And I used to use the excuse of actually getting
Speaker 1: work from the pub because I was in the carpet
Speaker 1: industry and I was called Dave the carpet So I
Speaker 1: always used to say, you know, the work, the money
Speaker 1: I get from the world would pay for my drinking,
Speaker 1: so there's not a problem. But the table is where that.
Speaker 1: It was never quite enough in the pub, so I
Speaker 1: used to get takeouts and I started drinking indoors. And
Speaker 1: back then you could get a cider called diamond white,
Speaker 1: and it was eight point four, and I started drinking
Speaker 1: indoors and then that kind of led onto my health declining,
Speaker 1: putting on white. When I was fourty years old, I
Speaker 1: moved away from the pub and I realized then the
Speaker 1: pub near me wasn't the same, so I started drinking
Speaker 1: indoors all the time. I put a more weight, so
Speaker 1: I googled what alcohol has the least amount of calories
Speaker 1: and that pop vodka, and I was never really a
Speaker 1: spirit man. So I went from half a bottle which
Speaker 1: lasted me about half an hour, to a bottle two,
Speaker 1: then liter, and to be honest, I don't remember my
Speaker 1: faulties at all. I was drinking alter and I for
Speaker 1: a long time passing out, blacking out, but I was
Speaker 1: still functioning, getting up, going to work, drunk still half
Speaker 1: the time. And it got to my fifties that the
Speaker 1: doctor basically said to me that if I didn't stop,
Speaker 1: I would die. I didn't stop, and I ended up
Speaker 1: like Eric, not the same, I imagine, But I made
Speaker 1: myself homeless for a few days by going a role.
Speaker 1: I vanished. No one knew where I was, and I
Speaker 1: drank in the bubble day and then went and ank
Speaker 1: for coroner freezing cold Beach and nearly died there because
Speaker 1: it was April in the UK, it was freezing, I
Speaker 1: was paralytic, and it still wasn't enough for me to
Speaker 1: stop drinking. But January two thousand nineteen came, I had
Speaker 1: an epiphany and I just stopped. And I will say
Speaker 1: that I shouldn't have stopped the way I did for
Speaker 1: medical reasons. You know, I should have reduced, but I stopped,
Speaker 1: and since then everything has changed. I'll talk a bit
Speaker 1: more about it later, but I can honestly say it
Speaker 1: saved me and it's the best thing I've ever done
Speaker 1: for myself. Ever, lots of things have happened since I've
Speaker 1: become sober. Thank you, Dave. Casey, do you want to
Speaker 1: give us a quick intro to who you are and
Speaker 1: how you got started in sobriety? Yeah, absolutely so. I'm
Speaker 1: Casey McGuire Davidson. I live in Seattle, Washington. I'm a
Speaker 1: Life in Sobriety coach, and I host the podcast Asked,
Speaker 1: the Hello Sunday Podcast for sober curious women. But before
Speaker 1: I started that, I was sort of a self declared
Speaker 1: red wine girl for many, many, many years. My story
Speaker 1: is a little bit different than Dave. I spent twenty
Speaker 1: years I was climbing the corporate ladder in big companies
Speaker 1: and small startups in Seattle, and got married, had kids
Speaker 1: at a house, you know, all the usual things. But
Speaker 1: I was pretty consistently drinking a bottle of wine or
Speaker 1: more every night. I was sort of the seven nights
Speaker 1: a week, three nights a year drinker. I sort of
Speaker 1: varied where I drank, you know, just for variety. So
Speaker 1: I drink it happy hours, you know, out with my coworkers,
Speaker 1: I drink on date nights with my husband's or girls nights.
Speaker 1: But most of it was me coming home from work
Speaker 1: with my kids after picking them up for daycare, and
Speaker 1: sort of a glass while cooking dinner, a last while
Speaker 1: doing the dishes, and then finishing the bottle on the
Speaker 1: couch while watching TV, you know, to quote unquote relax
Speaker 1: or whatever. Nobody really said anything to me about it.
Speaker 1: It was just sort of like part of who I was.
Speaker 1: I was always a big drinker since college, and I
Speaker 1: think that I had so many other things distracting, like
Speaker 1: what Eric talked about from you know, there's nothing to
Speaker 1: see here. I had a good job, I was successful,
Speaker 1: I had a good marriage and friends, and my kids
Speaker 1: were good. And at the same time, I would have
Speaker 1: the three am wake ups, and I would you know,
Speaker 1: hate putting my eyeliner on my bloodshot eyes in the
Speaker 1: morning and not want anyone to look at me too
Speaker 1: closely when I was at the best stop with my
Speaker 1: five year old, and yet I promised myself I'd take
Speaker 1: a break, and by four pm rationalized that, you know
Speaker 1: it's been a hard day, a good day, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter whatever it is. So that was pretty much my story.
Speaker 1: I quit drinking almost seven years ago. Again, like Dave said,
Speaker 1: it was literally my worst case scenario in my life.
Speaker 1: I desperately didn't want to quit. I wanted to figure
Speaker 1: out how to moderate, and it's been the best decision
Speaker 1: I've ever made. I love that. Thank you, Casey. So
Speaker 1: a quick intro for me. I'm Jill. I host a
Speaker 1: silver Powered podcast. I just celebrated three years of sobriety
Speaker 1: in early November, and I was a solo drinker. Like Dave,
Speaker 1: I loved drinking by myself. I used to say drinking
Speaker 1: by myself was my jam is my favorite thing to do.
Speaker 1: Even though my husband never made a comment about my
Speaker 1: drinking or thought that I had a problem or needed
Speaker 1: to drink less or stop, I still preferred drinking alone
Speaker 1: because then I could just really go for it, and
Speaker 1: those were always the worst nights too. At the same time,
Speaker 1: I was also a daily drinker pretty much right from
Speaker 1: the start, and I had a lot of mental health
Speaker 1: concept quince is for my drinking. I had a lot
Speaker 1: of depression, which eventually became suicidal thoughts, and that was
Speaker 1: what finally pushed me into sobriety. I spent so many
Speaker 1: years thinking that I could just learn to moderate and
Speaker 1: control it if I tried hard enough. For I found
Speaker 1: the right strategy, and eventually the suicidal thoughts became so
Speaker 1: powerful that I just accepted I just can't, I can't
Speaker 1: do it, and I gave up. And now it's been
Speaker 1: three years, and I agree with all of you the
Speaker 1: best decision that I ever made, even though it's hard,
Speaker 1: and even though it felt scary. So I think we've
Speaker 1: all mentioned reasons why it was hard for us to stop.
Speaker 1: But Eric, what do you think was the main thing
Speaker 1: that held you back from stopping the second time around? Well,
Speaker 1: I think the thing that held me back in all
Speaker 1: cases was simply a huge part of me not wanting to.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think you get to the level
Speaker 1: that any of us got in our relationship with substances
Speaker 1: if they are not doing something somewhat profound for you
Speaker 1: in some way, right, they have been a friend of sorts,
Speaker 1: not in the long term a good friend, but certainly
Speaker 1: in the short term, and in many moments, at least
Speaker 1: for me, was a good friend. So what helped me
Speaker 1: back was not wanting to have to quit. And we
Speaker 1: all talked a little bit about this idea of moderation, right,
Speaker 1: which I think in a a they say it's the
Speaker 1: great obsession of every abnormal drinker that will someday be
Speaker 1: able to control our drinking. Right, And we try all
Speaker 1: kinds of different strategies. And if you're like me and
Speaker 1: you're mixing multiple substances in you've got even more variations
Speaker 1: to try, no drinking but only weed, only weed on
Speaker 1: the weekends, or alcohol in the weekends, weed in the morning.
Speaker 1: You know, only taking valume three days a week. I mean,
Speaker 1: you just can keep spinning this game around and around.
Speaker 1: So I would say that was the biggest thing for
Speaker 1: me was coming to terms with, over a long period
Speaker 1: of time, the fact that I could not find a
Speaker 1: way to make alcohol and drugs work in my life,
Speaker 1: and eventually getting to the point where I realized, well,
Speaker 1: the answer probably has to be abstinence, which is the
Speaker 1: worst possible answer, at least for me, particularly the second time,
Speaker 1: because I knew what was going to happen if I
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out how to moderate my drinking. I knew
Speaker 1: I was going to go back to the twelve step program,
Speaker 1: and I was gonna have to give it up completely,
Speaker 1: and I was desperate not to do that, so I
Speaker 1: really tried hard to moderate. So I think that's the
Speaker 1: most concrete answer. On the other hand, take more of
Speaker 1: my Buddhist perspective. Right, Buddhism talks about this moment is
Speaker 1: here because of all these causes and conditions that arise. Right. So,
Speaker 1: on another level, in addition to what I just said,
Speaker 1: the things that would support my sobriety didn't come together
Speaker 1: till they came together, you know. And those were internal
Speaker 1: to me things, those were external to me things. Those
Speaker 1: were support that I was able to get. So all
Speaker 1: that stuff sort of had to line up in the
Speaker 1: right way at the right time for me to achieve
Speaker 1: something like permanent sobriety. Dave, you mentioned that you had
Speaker 1: a lot of moments that should have encouraged you to start.
Speaker 1: But what do you think was the main thing that
Speaker 1: kept you trying to keep drinking in your life? I
Speaker 1: used our cooles coping strategy. I stopped enjoying our cohole
Speaker 1: a long time ago, to be honest, so I would
Speaker 1: numb myself out really quickly I'll get him from work
Speaker 1: and I would pull the largest vodka you could imagine
Speaker 1: to numb me straight away, and I will continue like that.
Speaker 1: I would never sit there sipping it, watching the telly
Speaker 1: with my feet up. Then, Conald, this is great. It
Speaker 1: was purely doing a job I intended it to do.
Speaker 1: And after forty years of drinking, it's a tough decision
Speaker 1: to make to end that relationship. And I compare it
Speaker 1: to a relationship that you've been in because it wasn't
Speaker 1: always awful in the beginning. It was fun. It gave
Speaker 1: me confidence and it made me funny. I used to
Speaker 1: really love having a drink, but during my forties and
Speaker 1: fifties it was purely there to numb out the pain.
Speaker 1: But I wasn't ever ready to address the pain. So
Speaker 1: the first time I tried to stop, I lasted a
Speaker 1: few days and I just couldn't do it. And I
Speaker 1: just put it down to the fact I wasn't ready.
Speaker 1: So I had to change my mindset. And after that,
Speaker 1: in April, I had to go back to the doctors.
Speaker 1: And I will add to that as well, the doctor
Speaker 1: had doubled my antidepressants just before that happened, right, so
Speaker 1: I was a bit psychotic, I think, and I was
Speaker 1: on four medications. I was on tablets for my cholesterol.
Speaker 1: That was quite hard. My blood pressure was eighty four
Speaker 1: over a hundred and twenty six, and the doctor said,
Speaker 1: I'm a walking heart attack and I was only fifty four.
Speaker 1: Then I was a hundred thirty kg. I had acid
Speaker 1: reflux daily. I would project over from the acid without warning.
Speaker 1: You know. I was, basically, I think, on the brink
Speaker 1: of death. And that didn't stop me because I still
Speaker 1: wasn't ready to deal with what was going on in
Speaker 1: my life. And it is when I sand epiphany. It
Speaker 1: was almost like a friend text me on the scent
Speaker 1: for January and he said to me, how do you
Speaker 1: feel like joining me to stop drinking alcohol three months?
Speaker 1: And when I got this text, I had a hangover obviously.
Speaker 1: Monday morning I looked here and literally burst out laughing.
Speaker 1: I thought, I kind of give up three days, right,
Speaker 1: But something happened that day. It trickled in slowly, and
Speaker 1: then I remember pulling over in a lay by later
Speaker 1: on that day and I sat there and I thought,
Speaker 1: I wonder where I would be in three months. I
Speaker 1: wonder how my health would be, how my relationships would be.
Speaker 1: You know how I would feel every day if I
Speaker 1: was three months of out alcohol and I text him
Speaker 1: and I said, let's go. So that was it that day.
Speaker 1: And do you know what the weird side of me
Speaker 1: often wonders, I wonder what my last drink was because
Speaker 1: I don't remember because the night before I hadn't planned it.
Speaker 1: And it's almost like I want to go back and
Speaker 1: revisit that last drink and go that's it, because I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure that I ain't going to do it again,
Speaker 1: trust me. So it was pure semendipity. I think that
Speaker 1: I stopped drinking. But do you know I add to that,
Speaker 1: there's a thing about spontaneous sobriety, and you could label
Speaker 1: mine is that because I gave up on the day.
Speaker 1: But I think there was a lot of subliminal thinking
Speaker 1: going on along the lines of I know, I've got
Speaker 1: to stop. So it was psychologically preparing myself for that
Speaker 1: day as well, Dave. I was actually thinking about my
Speaker 1: last drink over the weekend, So it's funny that you
Speaker 1: mentioned that, and I was reflecting on it. I don't
Speaker 1: remember the exact one either, but I was reflecting on it,
Speaker 1: and I was like it probably wasn't even like anything great,
Speaker 1: you know, it was just like a stupid drink in
Speaker 1: a dive bar. And and I didn't know in that
Speaker 1: moment that that was the very last one. So thank
Speaker 1: you for sharing that. Casey, what do you think was
Speaker 1: the main thing that held you back from quitting drinking? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean I was laughing too, and you guys were
Speaker 1: saying you don't remember your last drink or you didn't
Speaker 1: know at the time that it was that, because I
Speaker 1: didn't either, I mean my last night drinking. And we
Speaker 1: can talk about this, but it was so uneventful, you know,
Speaker 1: typical bottle of line on the couch, you know, same
Speaker 1: things turned on scandal or some show, and my husband
Speaker 1: said to me, I think you watched this last night,
Speaker 1: and I said, no, I didn't. You know, you're wrong.
Speaker 1: He doesn't pay attention whatever. And I got to the
Speaker 1: very end of the hour, and something about that was familiar,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, oh my god, my brain
Speaker 1: literally did not record an entire hour, which wasn't unusual,
Speaker 1: and yet I was so sure he was wrong. Like
Speaker 1: I was just like, you're completely wrong, and so you know,
Speaker 1: you don't know anyone listening to this when you're like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I have to be ready for day one.
Speaker 1: You don't know when your last day drinking is going
Speaker 1: to be. Joe, you asked me what held me back
Speaker 1: from getting sober sooner? Think the biggest idea in my
Speaker 1: mind that helped me back was that I was quote
Speaker 1: unquote not that bad. You know, I knew I drank
Speaker 1: a lot. I knew I drank way more than other
Speaker 1: people did. But everyone I knew drank, and you know
Speaker 1: that's by design we surround ourselves with drinkers. But I
Speaker 1: literally didn't know a single person in my social life
Speaker 1: who loved drinking the way I did and had stopped
Speaker 1: and said that life was better and they were happier
Speaker 1: on the other side. And so I had this sort
Speaker 1: of dichotomy, which I think so many people do, that
Speaker 1: either you are a quote unquote alcoholic and therefore you
Speaker 1: need to stop, or there's nothing to see here. You
Speaker 1: just abuse alcohol. You need to get better at moderating it.
Speaker 1: And it was so ingrained in my identity. You know
Speaker 1: who I was as a red wine girl, and it
Speaker 1: was shorthand for everything from I have two little kids,
Speaker 1: but I'm still cool. It was part of business networking,
Speaker 1: It was part of how I sort of expressed, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have fun, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So I think that what held me back. Obviously I
Speaker 1: did not want to stop drinking, right, I loved it,
Speaker 1: and I think for a lot of us who drink,
Speaker 1: we love it. But also it was the idea that
Speaker 1: like I kind of by the end knew that this
Speaker 1: was going nowhere good and that it was unsustainable the
Speaker 1: way I was drinking. But very clearly in my mind,
Speaker 1: I was like I could probably string this out a
Speaker 1: couple more years, you know, like if I'm going to
Speaker 1: have to stop, I can probably you know, play it
Speaker 1: out for a while longer. Yeah, held me back for
Speaker 1: a long time, and I wish it hadn't. Joe, what
Speaker 1: about you? Everything you guys said, definitely, But I think
Speaker 1: the main thing for me was what it meant about
Speaker 1: me if I had to stop. That was the thing
Speaker 1: that I was fighting against the most, because I thought
Speaker 1: that people who had to quit drinking were weak, old
Speaker 1: losers who can't control themselves. Like I believed everything bad
Speaker 1: that you've ever heard out there about alcoholics. So I
Speaker 1: didn't want to be that. I didn't want people to
Speaker 1: attach all of those things to me. So I was
Speaker 1: scared to give up, you know, the fun which barely
Speaker 1: existed anymore, and connecting with other people. And I thought
Speaker 1: I was like this little wine connoisseur who who knew
Speaker 1: all these fancy things and went to wine tastings, And
Speaker 1: so I didn't want to give up that, But it
Speaker 1: was more like what it meant about me if I
Speaker 1: had to stop, So I was fighting against that. So
Speaker 1: if I could just learn to moderate, then I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be a loser. And I would shame myself when I
Speaker 1: wouldn't moderate, Like if if you can't figure this out,
Speaker 1: you're going to have to stop for good, and everybody's
Speaker 1: going to say you're an alcoholic and a loser and
Speaker 1: you have no self control. So I would like threaten
Speaker 1: myself with the stigma, and that only made it worse.
Speaker 1: But that was what held me back. The other thing
Speaker 1: I'm struck by, you know, listening to your stories and
Speaker 1: mine also is I think another thing that holds us
Speaker 1: back is sort of the destructive spiral of addiction, which
Speaker 1: is I don't feel good about myself, so I take
Speaker 1: a drink and then I behave in ways that I
Speaker 1: don't feel good about, or I have a lot of
Speaker 1: stigma towards myself for drinking, which then makes me feel worse,
Speaker 1: which then causes me to need to take another because
Speaker 1: I feel so bad, which then causes me to feel worse.
Speaker 1: And it's just this slow, gradual eroding of who we
Speaker 1: are and this shame that creeps its way in also,
Speaker 1: And I think that's the other insidious part of this
Speaker 1: that makes it so hard. Yeah, I think what I
Speaker 1: love the most about not drinking is just the absence
Speaker 1: of that horrible voice in my head, the self loathing,
Speaker 1: the berating every morning. Just to have that be gone
Speaker 1: into wake up and think of nothing but the smell
Speaker 1: of the coffee or whether it's raining or you know,
Speaker 1: all that stuff is pretty incredible. You know what I
Speaker 1: think as well, it's the time that you get back
Speaker 1: in your head because you have the usual thing in
Speaker 1: the morning when you say you're not going to drink
Speaker 1: that day, and then you start to negotiate throughout the day, right,
Speaker 1: and then by the afternoon there is so I might
Speaker 1: just have one, and then you get your two bottles
Speaker 1: or your leat with volca now in full way you're
Speaker 1: going to do it and then it starts again. So
Speaker 1: what Eric sand about the hamster wheel, isn't it? I
Speaker 1: called it the hamster word of doom, where it's so
Speaker 1: impossible to get off because you go through the cycle,
Speaker 1: don't you have repeat, repeat, repeat behavior and it just
Speaker 1: brings you lower and lower and lower and meeting alcohol
Speaker 1: more and more. And I thought that the only good
Speaker 1: part of my life was like those first two hours
Speaker 1: where I was drinking and I thought that my actual
Speaker 1: life was bad and then drinking. So it really just
Speaker 1: tricks you into thinking you suck and the drinking is good.
Speaker 1: Yours lasted two hours, Jill, Mine lasted about ten minutes drinking. Well,
Speaker 1: that's because you had thirty more years on her. Jill
Speaker 1: would have gotten down to the two second mark. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: I still kept my two hours. Yeah, hey everyone, this
Speaker 1: is Jenny. One of my absolute favorite things is when
Speaker 1: we hear from listeners of the show, and something we
Speaker 1: hear quite often is that one of the biggest obstacles
Speaker 1: to feeding the Good Wolf is remembering. Because life is
Speaker 1: busy and we get caught up in routines and we're
Speaker 1: all on autopilots, so much of the time. So to
Speaker 1: help with that, we've started sending a couple of text
Speaker 1: messages after each episode is released to listeners who sign
Speaker 1: up for them, and it's something we're offering for free.
Speaker 1: A listener wrote us and said, the message has caused
Speaker 1: me to pause, even if just for a moment, and
Speaker 1: helped me to remember important bits of wisdom, bringing them
Speaker 1: to the forefront of my mind. Remembering is the hardest part,
Speaker 1: and the text messages are super helpful. So if you'd
Speaker 1: like to hear from us a few times a week
Speaker 1: via text, go to one you feed dot net slash
Speaker 1: text and sign up for free. Eric, when you stopped,
Speaker 1: you mentioned that you started with a A the first time.
Speaker 1: What do you think you did the second time that
Speaker 1: really helped you to get sober? I did twelve step
Speaker 1: programs in both cases. I mean the first time, I
Speaker 1: chose that because I went to a rehab and that's
Speaker 1: what they did there. And honestly, in Columbus, Ohio, there
Speaker 1: was no other game in town, like very literally there
Speaker 1: was no other choice. So that's where I got sober.
Speaker 1: And so then when I realized I needed to get
Speaker 1: sober the second time, that just seemed like the place
Speaker 1: to go. You know, this is fifteen years ago, so
Speaker 1: I don't know. Two thousand and seven, maybe there still
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot in the way of alternatives in the
Speaker 1: way there are now. So I just went back because
Speaker 1: that's what I knew. I knew how to do it,
Speaker 1: I knew it worked. You know, there's lots of things
Speaker 1: about twelve step programs that many people find objectionable, and
Speaker 1: I find some of those things objectionable too. But the
Speaker 1: thing about them, the power I think that they have
Speaker 1: for many people, and certainly was for me, was in Columbus, Ohio,
Speaker 1: there were hundreds and hundreds of meetings a week, so
Speaker 1: if I needed support and help, it was available in
Speaker 1: person for me nearly any time. That is a real
Speaker 1: strong advantage to it that I think, at least in
Speaker 1: my case, offset what many of the disadvantages are. And
Speaker 1: maybe we'll get into that as we talk about how
Speaker 1: we get sober. But I did it twelve step both ways,
Speaker 1: but largely due to lack of choice. I think today,
Speaker 1: in today's world, I would probably very likely have gone
Speaker 1: a different direction. Whether that would be good or bad,
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I can't say. I just know
Speaker 1: what did work. For me. But I do think the
Speaker 1: fact that there are lots of alternatives now is great,
Speaker 1: and I think that's part of why we all wanted
Speaker 1: to do this episode, was to show that there's not
Speaker 1: one way to do this. I think that's really important. YEA.
Speaker 1: And even though a lot of people think that a
Speaker 1: A is the only option, if you start exploring and
Speaker 1: googling or hanging out in the sober community, you'll see
Speaker 1: there are lots of different options. But I thought that
Speaker 1: A A was my only choice too, And I remember
Speaker 1: my biggest fear about that was that someone would recognize me,
Speaker 1: which was so stupid because they're there for the same
Speaker 1: things reason I'm there, But that was my main thing, Like,
Speaker 1: I can't go because someone's going to recognize me there
Speaker 1: and then they'll know. That is a hugely common thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, it really is. I mean, I think stepping
Speaker 1: into any new group is always hard under any circumstances, right,
Speaker 1: particularly for those of us who are a little bit
Speaker 1: more shy, perhaps are introverted. But then you add that
Speaker 1: stigma of addiction alcohol to it. Boy, that is a
Speaker 1: very brave move. Walking into whatever support you find the
Speaker 1: first time is a really big and brave move. I
Speaker 1: totally agree, Dave. You mentioned that you had spontaneous sobriety
Speaker 1: a bit, even though it was a mindset shift for
Speaker 1: a while leading up to it. When you did get
Speaker 1: sober and you did decide to stop with your friend
Speaker 1: for three months, what did you do for support and
Speaker 1: why did you do that over other things? As you
Speaker 1: five say at that moment, and he thought it was
Speaker 1: I ain't a friend of mine. Actually she was kind
Speaker 1: to a a local to me. And ironically I didn't
Speaker 1: care if anyone knew I was because I came out
Speaker 1: the closet straight away and I thought, I don't care
Speaker 1: because it was my way of dealing with it. I
Speaker 1: wanted everyone to know that I was getting help and
Speaker 1: I needed help, so I had no issue with that.
Speaker 1: But I went there about five times, and towards the
Speaker 1: end it didn't quite sit with me and I couldn't
Speaker 1: pinpoint it. And now I'm four years sober. I think
Speaker 1: maybe it was the wrong meeting, that I should have
Speaker 1: mixed and matched and tried other meetings and met other
Speaker 1: people because I went to the same thing. But I
Speaker 1: created my page on Instagram and started posting my story
Speaker 1: and there were a lot of people that were messaging
Speaker 1: me about it because I'm a bit older, and I
Speaker 1: say how it is, and people seem to like that.
Speaker 1: And then I saw an event that was held with
Speaker 1: a few guests. There was a couple of offers there
Speaker 1: and whatever. So I bought a ticket and I got
Speaker 1: on the train to go to of that, and normally
Speaker 1: I would have pre drinks, you know, turn up a
Speaker 1: bit of Dutch courage. And I got there and it
Speaker 1: was really rough this area, and I was walking up
Speaker 1: and down. I think, I don't know if I'm going.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can do it. Eventually I
Speaker 1: plucked up the courage and it was packed in there,
Speaker 1: and I met all kinds of people. There were a
Speaker 1: couple of bikers in there, you know, people from all
Speaker 1: walks of life. And I remember after all this talking
Speaker 1: was done, the speeches and whatever and the interviews, I
Speaker 1: left there and got on the train and I thought,
Speaker 1: oh my god, there were so many normal people. I
Speaker 1: didn't know what to expect. But it was like every
Speaker 1: once normal, you know, I feel part of something now.
Speaker 1: And from that day we stayed in touch and as
Speaker 1: you know, Jill, I mean, we're all on our podcast
Speaker 1: we talked to people all over the world. I've done
Speaker 1: fifteen our liver funds globally, all three people I've met
Speaker 1: for the community. So the community is a huge poll
Speaker 1: for me, even now after four years and what have
Speaker 1: it down? Die and I'm what posed and people come
Speaker 1: in like yourselves and say dive, you know, come on
Speaker 1: my get food to die And you know, the community
Speaker 1: on social media has been a real savor for me.
Speaker 1: I didn't think any of us were normal either, Dave.
Speaker 1: So same feeling, Casey. When you stopped drinking, what did
Speaker 1: you do for support? And then why did you choose
Speaker 1: that over your other options? Yeah, I was resonating with
Speaker 1: what Eric said about the options available when he stopped drinking,
Speaker 1: both the first time and sort of what he knew
Speaker 1: was available the second time. So, like many people, I'm
Speaker 1: sure listening to this. When I finally stopped drinking seven
Speaker 1: years ago, that wasn't kind of my first rodeo. I guess.
Speaker 1: I tried to stop drinking ten years ago when my
Speaker 1: son was five, and you know, I did it because
Speaker 1: I'd really gotten to the point where I felt like
Speaker 1: I couldn't cope with my life. I felt like I
Speaker 1: couldn't cope with my job, my marriage, my kid, even
Speaker 1: though I loved him more than anything, and so I
Speaker 1: was like, I have to get sober to get some
Speaker 1: clarity on what specifically isn't working in my life. And
Speaker 1: I went to a therapist and he was sober through
Speaker 1: a twelve step program. I joined it on my group
Speaker 1: just in the very very early days of that stuff
Speaker 1: a decade ago so, and people there invited me to
Speaker 1: go to a and I went with them and met
Speaker 1: really incredible people. It turned out not to be my
Speaker 1: path for various reasons, and I'm sure part of it
Speaker 1: was I wanted to go back to drinking, but part
Speaker 1: of it was sort of the structure and the approach
Speaker 1: and the rituals that weren't necessarily the direction that I
Speaker 1: wanted to go. So I went back to drinking, and
Speaker 1: the second time I came BacT seven years ago, so
Speaker 1: just three years later, the world had changed quite a bit,
Speaker 1: which is incredible. I was still a member of my
Speaker 1: online not drinking group, but as I was debating quitting
Speaker 1: drinking or not, people recommended sober coaching to me, and
Speaker 1: that ended up being my path. I went, you know,
Speaker 1: after that fairly remarkable night of not remembering the shows
Speaker 1: I watched. I had the three am wake up. I
Speaker 1: felt like garbage. In the morning, I went into my
Speaker 1: office and went online to look up this sober coach
Speaker 1: and signed up that day at ten am. And in
Speaker 1: the spirit of support is available anywhere. She lived in Paris,
Speaker 1: we emailed every day. She had audios you could listen to.
Speaker 1: It was bell from tired of thinking about drinking, and
Speaker 1: we had coaching calls. I'd go out to my car
Speaker 1: for thirty minutes in the middle of my work day.
Speaker 1: I think that worked for me for a couple of reasons. Eric.
Speaker 1: I love that you said there's in person support available
Speaker 1: at any time through a twelve step meeting, and I
Speaker 1: think that's incredible. Also, as a mom of an eight
Speaker 1: year old and a two year old with a full
Speaker 1: time job, it was difficult. My husband coached after his
Speaker 1: job and and it just didn't work for my schedule.
Speaker 1: But being able to tap into online groups and email
Speaker 1: my sober coach or you know, listen to audios when
Speaker 1: I was driving into work or walking to coffee or
Speaker 1: rocking my baby to sleep at night, that worked for me.
Speaker 1: And so the other thing I loved about coaching was
Speaker 1: there was no labels. That was a big hold up
Speaker 1: for me. I didn't have to call myself an alcoholic.
Speaker 1: It was also that I needed help with the big things,
Speaker 1: like and for me, the big things were who am
Speaker 1: I if I don't drink? What are all my limited
Speaker 1: beliefs about life without alcohol and what it'll be like?
Speaker 1: And like Jill said, what will people think of me?
Speaker 1: But it was also the really small block and tactling, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm going to a dinner party. What
Speaker 1: am I going to say to the host? I am
Speaker 1: driving home from work and I desperately want to pick
Speaker 1: up a bottle of wine? What do I do? Instead?
Speaker 1: I am angry at my husband and my two year
Speaker 1: old ist crying what do I do? And it was
Speaker 1: those like really practical things that I needed help with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we don't realize how hard the everyday things can be,
Speaker 1: especially I get mad at my husband too, so I
Speaker 1: get that and a lot of other people. I used
Speaker 1: to just drink at people all the time, and then
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that until I got sober and I
Speaker 1: had the urge to then drink at those people. And
Speaker 1: you have to learn how to just handle everyday things. Yeah, Casey,
Speaker 1: I love that you sort of counter the in person
Speaker 1: support with what you needed, because what we ultimately need
Speaker 1: is what fits into our life and what works with
Speaker 1: our characteristics and our person reality. And like I said,
Speaker 1: I think the fact that there are more options is
Speaker 1: an amazing thing. I mean, the second time I got sober,
Speaker 1: it was in person support is what I had, and
Speaker 1: I had a really difficult time because I had kids.
Speaker 1: Same thing. I'm going to take my kids to you
Speaker 1: know this in the evening, I'm coaching soccer. I'm doing that.
Speaker 1: Actually I never coached soccer. I'm terrible at soccer, but
Speaker 1: I did coach baseball, and you know, so then for me,
Speaker 1: it was like, all right, i gotta get a lunch
Speaker 1: meeting in and then I'm having to rush to the
Speaker 1: meeting and you know that, can I get out of
Speaker 1: work in time? So yeah, I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of advantages to this convenience. And Jill, I'd love to
Speaker 1: kind of hear maybe what your path was. So I
Speaker 1: didn't really do much in the beginning. I stopped and
Speaker 1: I did that because I realized that drunk Jill, my
Speaker 1: alter ego, would probably do something really bad to me
Speaker 1: if I were ever drunken alone, which, as I said
Speaker 1: in the beginning, was my favorite way to drink. So
Speaker 1: I felt really scared for myself, and I accepted that
Speaker 1: I can never drink ever again for the rest of
Speaker 1: my life. And I didn't take it a one day
Speaker 1: at a time approach. And because I said forever, not
Speaker 1: that I was like cool with it, but I accepted it.
Speaker 1: I felt like I didn't need support, so I didn't
Speaker 1: do anything. I was in like a Facebook group or
Speaker 1: two and and I kind of hung around there and
Speaker 1: like posted a little or commented a little, but I
Speaker 1: didn't do much. I listened to podcasts um when I
Speaker 1: quit for good, I binged all of craigbeck stuff because
Speaker 1: he makes me laugh. I love all of his thoughts
Speaker 1: on moderation. He's so funny. But eventually, in these Facebook groups,
Speaker 1: I started kind of sharing, and at that point, a
Speaker 1: couple of months in, I still thought like I was
Speaker 1: the only one that had my experiences, and I was
Speaker 1: afraid to tell people about it because I kept saying,
Speaker 1: if I tell people that I used to feel suicidal
Speaker 1: when I drink, They're gonna like call I don't know
Speaker 1: who you call on me and I'm going to get
Speaker 1: like the seventy two hour hold and like this whole
Speaker 1: I was really afraid that that was a completely unique
Speaker 1: experience and that there would be some consequences if I
Speaker 1: shared it, so I kept a lot of things to myself,
Speaker 1: and then eventually I got comfortable sharing, and so many
Speaker 1: people told me like me too, and that helped me,
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, it wasn't just me, Like
Speaker 1: that isn't a weird, abnormal experience to have. And then
Speaker 1: I just continued hanging out with Facebook people until the
Speaker 1: world shutdown and we all went into quarantine. I was
Speaker 1: about four months sober and I worked in a lab,
Speaker 1: so I always had to be at work and I
Speaker 1: have liked therapy at that point for like ten years,
Speaker 1: but I felt awkward about like leaving work at the
Speaker 1: same time every week, and like maybe people would know
Speaker 1: I was going to therapy, like, oh my gosh, shocking.
Speaker 1: So one goes to therapy, right And when we all
Speaker 1: went home and I couldn't bring my lab work home
Speaker 1: with me, I had a lot of time and therapists
Speaker 1: were now meeting with people virtually, so I started doing
Speaker 1: therapy around four months sober. So that's when like I
Speaker 1: finally did something and got support. And up until then
Speaker 1: I was angry. I would go out to social things
Speaker 1: and I would cry afterwards from the stress. Like I
Speaker 1: still wasn't drinking, but I I wasn't doing fabulous at it.
Speaker 1: I was just not drinking. And through therapy, like I learned,
Speaker 1: why are you so angry all the time? Why do
Speaker 1: you want to drink at people? Like? Why is it
Speaker 1: so hard for you to think about like shameful things?
Speaker 1: And why do you believe you're a loser if you
Speaker 1: don't drink? So I learned kind of like what was
Speaker 1: going on in my own head, and that was what
Speaker 1: helped me the most. And then over time the rage
Speaker 1: started to calm down and I could learn to manage
Speaker 1: my emotions a bit. But I had no tools or
Speaker 1: skills when I stopped drinking, because my only coping skill,
Speaker 1: like Dave was saying, was just drinking. You have such
Speaker 1: a sweet disposition, Jill. I can't see rageful Jill at
Speaker 1: this juncture in my life. But I'm not doubting her existence.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's a very stark contrast to what
Speaker 1: we get, you know, of you now, Yeah, everybody says that,
Speaker 1: but she does exist. Yeah, my husband would say the
Speaker 1: same thing. My husband can tell you, guys, she does.
Speaker 1: She does appear sometimes, and the way that she appears
Speaker 1: as like, all, We'll be sitting on the couch and
Speaker 1: I'll stand up to like rant at him about something
Speaker 1: and it doesn't even have to be like rage directed
Speaker 1: at him, but he's still sees it even if it's
Speaker 1: directed at other people. Yeah, serious business. Put down your
Speaker 1: phone and get ready for a lecture. So for you, guys,
Speaker 1: it seems like it wasn't that hard for you to
Speaker 1: get support. I think for me, I had all of
Speaker 1: these beliefs that it meant something bad about me if
Speaker 1: I needed help. Did you ever feel that way or
Speaker 1: did you just feel that support would help you so
Speaker 1: you wanted it? Oh. I think I came about it
Speaker 1: via a long path, and I think most of us
Speaker 1: do in the same way. That there's this moderation thing
Speaker 1: right where I'm going to moderate this, I'm gonna figure
Speaker 1: this out. There's also this idea that I can do
Speaker 1: this on my own. I should be able to do
Speaker 1: this on my own. And so my experience was lots
Speaker 1: of attempts of that, right, you know. I think when
Speaker 1: I first started really drinking to the first time I
Speaker 1: got sober was not that long, right, Maybe I don't
Speaker 1: know six years now. Again, I have a tendency to
Speaker 1: burn the house down quick, which is I suppose an
Speaker 1: advantage in many ways. But I think from early on
Speaker 1: I started knowing something's not quite right, and so I
Speaker 1: started trying in my own way thousands of little moderation
Speaker 1: quitting experiments, and so I don't think I wanted support.
Speaker 1: I think that in my case, I ended up in
Speaker 1: a detox center because I was in big trouble. I'd
Speaker 1: gone to a n n A before that and just
Speaker 1: it didn't do anything for me. It just had no
Speaker 1: real effect on me. But I ended up in a
Speaker 1: place where I was just desperate, and then I was
Speaker 1: kind of surrounded by support. And I think in that
Speaker 1: process I started to see like, oh, this feels good.
Speaker 1: This feels good to walk into a room and have
Speaker 1: other people tell their story and me be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a lot like mine. I don't feel so alone
Speaker 1: or to share some part of me, and then everybody
Speaker 1: look at me and be like, yeah, of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: I felt that. So I think it was a I
Speaker 1: don't really want it, but I started getting exposed to it,
Speaker 1: and as I got exposed to it more, it started
Speaker 1: I started to notice that A it worked and be
Speaker 1: it felt good. But I don't think I wanted it.
Speaker 1: I think I'm a little bit like Dave in that
Speaker 1: my outward identity was so alcohol and addiction focused that
Speaker 1: there was no shame for me. If there was any
Speaker 1: shame for me and getting help, it was from the
Speaker 1: people around me who were like, what are you a quitter?
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, like that kind of shame. You know.
Speaker 1: It wasn't from the rest of the world being like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, you've got a problem. It was from
Speaker 1: the people in the trenches with me who were like,
Speaker 1: what you're going to a A Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: You know. That's where I felt the pressure. So it's
Speaker 1: kind of the opposite direction. Dave, you said that you
Speaker 1: were proud to get support. What made you feel that way.
Speaker 1: I've always been interested in how we think. I've always
Speaker 1: had a real passion for becoming a therapist. One day,
Speaker 1: so when I was drinking, I actually signed up to
Speaker 1: a course trying to be a therapist and then go
Speaker 1: onto university and part of that was because when, as
Speaker 1: I said before, when I was at school, I literally
Speaker 1: failed everything and left before I was due to leave.
Speaker 1: And I've always had this thing that I am ill, educated, thick, useless,
Speaker 1: can't do anything. So I've done basic jobs, but I've
Speaker 1: got by because I think we'll all agree when we
Speaker 1: go through this addiction, become incredibly resilient. So I did
Speaker 1: two years at college doing a course to become a therapist,
Speaker 1: and I learned a lot. I learned a lot about
Speaker 1: listening skills theory, but surprise, surprise, I've failed miserably because
Speaker 1: I used to get drunk whilst doing my homework. I
Speaker 1: thought it was a good idea to have four or
Speaker 1: five pints per even like my map book. And then
Speaker 1: I would do a fifteen hundred word dissertation thinking it's
Speaker 1: the best thing ever and put it in think yeah,
Speaker 1: I smashed that, and then be hold into the office
Speaker 1: saying what the hell is this? So I failed that?
Speaker 1: But do you know what I was saying about my sobriety.
Speaker 1: You know, the first year was just outside lockdown, but
Speaker 1: in lockdown, I believe education is key, and quite often,
Speaker 1: Jill I had people toward draw a podcast because they're
Speaker 1: short as science based. My podcast is more life stories,
Speaker 1: you know, so it gives a bit of variation there.
Speaker 1: And I decided to do a course on becoming a
Speaker 1: Gray Area drinking coach. Like Casey has said how important
Speaker 1: it was for her to have a sobriety coach. And
Speaker 1: you know what, I learned more in those few months
Speaker 1: and I did about life itself. I learned about the
Speaker 1: nervous system, about all the unique things that we need
Speaker 1: to put in our sober tool box, you know, to
Speaker 1: help us, and also the power of accountability as well.
Speaker 1: And I flew through that, loved every minute of it,
Speaker 1: and then set up as a sobriety coach, and you
Speaker 1: know what, working with people that starting out or like
Speaker 1: you know, the second time around. And I learned myself
Speaker 1: from people, do you know what I mean? I learned
Speaker 1: about their journeys and even on my podcast, you know,
Speaker 1: I love talking to people about what they've been through.
Speaker 1: So for me, that education was so important for me.
Speaker 1: And as we all know, every week we learned something new.
Speaker 1: And this journey is never linear and it never will be.
Speaker 1: I look at it like riding a bike up hill.
Speaker 1: Some days you want a straight with the son out
Speaker 1: and others. You head down. He'll like that. And it's
Speaker 1: pouring the rain. You either photo bike and of bushes
Speaker 1: or you keep peddling, you know, and trust me, In
Speaker 1: the last few months, I've been peddling up hill, but
Speaker 1: I'm still not drinking, so that's a bonus. Dave. I
Speaker 1: also thought that drinking helped me study and do my homework.
Speaker 1: Um really was convinced, actually did it every time. I
Speaker 1: would love to see some of those essays, Dave. I
Speaker 1: think it would really be special if you can find them.
Speaker 1: Probably got them somewhere, but that being the Elector has
Speaker 1: been somewhere. That's your second book, Dave. He thought, Joe,
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting when you said about Okay,
Speaker 1: I knew this was just it. I was never going
Speaker 1: to drink again, that I needed to stop forever, because
Speaker 1: I think definitely that thought was one of the things
Speaker 1: that helped me back for a very long time. And
Speaker 1: so when I finally stopped drinking for the last time,
Speaker 1: one of the things that appealed to me is that
Speaker 1: it was a hundred day challenge with a coach with support.
Speaker 1: And what helped me about that was it wasn't I'm
Speaker 1: going to try to moderate, I'm only going to have
Speaker 1: to drinks. I'm only going to drink once a week.
Speaker 1: It wasn't one day at a time, but it also
Speaker 1: wasn't forever, So you know, I just had to go
Speaker 1: on faith that if I didn't drink for a days,
Speaker 1: I would feel better and I would look back at
Speaker 1: the way I was living with the drinking and the
Speaker 1: bad memories and the hangovers and the three am wake
Speaker 1: ups and the anxiety and say, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: never want to go back to that again. I can't
Speaker 1: believe that was my normal and that is what happened.
Speaker 1: But I think that if I had said forever, I
Speaker 1: would go out to dinner and see a woman at
Speaker 1: the table next to me with a glass of bread
Speaker 1: wine and just be like, I am never going to
Speaker 1: have that again, and therefore I'm gonna drink one last time, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that that would have helped me back
Speaker 1: from ever getting the distance I needed from alcohol. When
Speaker 1: you talk about support, I think there were two pieces
Speaker 1: that I needed. One the online support of knowing that
Speaker 1: there were lots and lots of people out there, specifically women, mothers,
Speaker 1: people who worked out there like me who also struggled
Speaker 1: with alcohol and their husband's drink and all their friends
Speaker 1: drenk right, I was like, okay, they have the same
Speaker 1: set of problems I have, which is different than other people,
Speaker 1: and that's okay. There's still pressures. But not only that.
Speaker 1: Someone said to me, and I think it's so true
Speaker 1: that there are sort of two sets of problems that
Speaker 1: you solve for when you stopped drinking, and the first
Speaker 1: one is sort of the aftermath problems, which are the hangovers,
Speaker 1: the sleep, the defensiveness, the self loathing, the bad talk
Speaker 1: like that gets solved pretty quickly, but then you have
Speaker 1: the underlying problems. And so for me, I think I
Speaker 1: needed layers of support. So in the beginning, I needed
Speaker 1: the practical advice like how do I not drink on
Speaker 1: a Friday night, how do I tell my husband I'm
Speaker 1: not doing this? How do I go to a work
Speaker 1: happy or our business trip. And then, like you, Jill,
Speaker 1: I started therapy four months in and it was because
Speaker 1: I had had a major panic anxiety episode and I
Speaker 1: was really upset because I thought that by quitting drinking
Speaker 1: my anxiety would go away. And I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I gave up the thing I love more
Speaker 1: than anything in this entire world. And I'm not fixed,
Speaker 1: but it was the first time I could see it
Speaker 1: clearly and go to a therapist weekly and start to
Speaker 1: dig into why am I feeling this anxiety and get
Speaker 1: on medication while also not counteracting that with a bottle
Speaker 1: of linea night. And what's amazing is I actually got
Speaker 1: diagnosed with a mild mood disorder that I'm sure I've
Speaker 1: had my entire life. But I wouldn't have figured that
Speaker 1: out if I was still drinking. I would just blame
Speaker 1: myself for everything. So I mean support started with an
Speaker 1: online group and a coach, and then I added exercise,
Speaker 1: and then I added therapy, and I added medication, and
Speaker 1: then after that figured out some boundaries. So you need
Speaker 1: support for each stage of your army. That's what I found.
Speaker 1: I love that. That's amazing and I see that all
Speaker 1: the time that we quit drinking and we think like
Speaker 1: that's it. Now, I'm better, Now everything should be good,
Speaker 1: and then it's shocking when things still aren't good. It
Speaker 1: can be like really confusing and lead a lot of
Speaker 1: people back because why bother, right if things don't get
Speaker 1: better immediately, why bother giving up my favorite thing. So
Speaker 1: thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, that's a really
Speaker 1: important point, I think, which is that some people feel
Speaker 1: better almost immediately upon quitting drinking. Other people feel almost
Speaker 1: immediately worse, and so knowing that is really important. And
Speaker 1: we hear about the pink cloud in early sobriety a lot,
Speaker 1: and it's true for many people there is a pink cloud.
Speaker 1: There is that great relief that this thing, you know,
Speaker 1: this guillotine that's been hanging over my head all these years,
Speaker 1: someone has just wheeled it away and it's not here anymore,
Speaker 1: and there's a great relief. And then slowly life sort
Speaker 1: of starts to trickle back in. But we all have
Speaker 1: underlying issue is you don't get to the point with
Speaker 1: alcohol and drugs that many of us get to. That's
Speaker 1: not generally the sign of a well adjusted personality structure. Right,
Speaker 1: There's things we don't know how to deal with, we
Speaker 1: don't know how to cope with. So I love that idea. Also, Casey,
Speaker 1: that you said about support at different stages of the
Speaker 1: journey and needing different things. But I think it's really important.
Speaker 1: I always say to people, don't confuse what getting sober
Speaker 1: is like with what it's like to be sober, because
Speaker 1: for me, getting sober is a misery. It is a
Speaker 1: deep misery. It feels like being torn apart inside because
Speaker 1: one part of me desperately is like, I can't do this.
Speaker 1: The other part of me is like, but I have
Speaker 1: to do this, and then there's no relief from the
Speaker 1: substance to at least dampen that down a little bit.
Speaker 1: So getting sober for me is misery. However, being sober
Speaker 1: for me, I mean it's good enough. It's what I've
Speaker 1: done the vast majority of my adult life at this point,
Speaker 1: and it's really been a great thing. But I think
Speaker 1: those are two really important points you both just brought
Speaker 1: up there. I think it's so sign landmarks because for me,
Speaker 1: the first year was all about stopping drinking physically, and
Speaker 1: I got up to the first year, and then I
Speaker 1: celebrated my sub bursary and it was almost like a
Speaker 1: week or two after that I went through the whole
Speaker 1: feeling of what now you know? And I related that
Speaker 1: to maybe pregnancy, where there's a big build up to
Speaker 1: the birth right and then the baby is born and
Speaker 1: then two or three weeks later the phone stopped ringing,
Speaker 1: the baby is crying in the night, and you're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, on my my own and I felt,
Speaker 1: I really don't know what to do now. And I'm
Speaker 1: having more and more people come to me now with
Speaker 1: this feeling. I call it the second phase of sobriety,
Speaker 1: where they've actually got used to not drinking. They've told
Speaker 1: all their friends they don't drink, and they've experienced holidays, Birthdays,
Speaker 1: Christmas all without drinking, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it's like I don't know who I am, I don't
Speaker 1: know what I'm doing, you know. And often that's an
Speaker 1: important thing, as I said previously, that it's never linear
Speaker 1: and it's an important thing. The landmarks can be really triggering. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's really interesting, Dave, because I think the first time around,
Speaker 1: I was in a twelve step program and we hand
Speaker 1: out coins at thirty sixty nine days a year. There's
Speaker 1: a big focus on that, and I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of benefit in that. However, it is a double
Speaker 1: edged sword, right, and the double edged sword of it
Speaker 1: is a we invest too much belief that at a
Speaker 1: certain point a year then everything will be great. Right,
Speaker 1: So we're building towards this big thing, and it's just
Speaker 1: another day. And then there's the other, which is that
Speaker 1: if you're not achieving perfect sobriety, you feel like you're
Speaker 1: making no progress based on those milestones, which can be
Speaker 1: very disheartening. You know, when I came back the second time,
Speaker 1: I had had eight years sober before, so counting three
Speaker 1: days just felt depressing. You know, Okay, well i've got
Speaker 1: I've got a week now, yeah, but you used to
Speaker 1: have eight years. You know, I've got a month now, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's not a year. It was just all so
Speaker 1: I finally just was like, forget it. I often get
Speaker 1: confused how many years I am sober because I just
Speaker 1: have paid so little attention to it. I have a
Speaker 1: friend I'm like, was it two thousand seven? Was that
Speaker 1: what it was? Was it two thousand and six? Because
Speaker 1: for me, those milestones just they got in the way
Speaker 1: after a certain point. So I think finding your relationship
Speaker 1: to them that works for you and holding them somewhat lightly.
Speaker 1: Also for me, the thirteen month milestone was the most anticlimactic, boring,
Speaker 1: like it was thirteen months. I woke up and I'm like, huh,
Speaker 1: I don't feel anything about this. I don't feel excited
Speaker 1: about it. I don't feel like anyone would care about it,
Speaker 1: and it was weird, and then it happened again at fourteen.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't think fourteen is really that exciting either.
Speaker 1: And after that build up, like the eleventh month for me,
Speaker 1: every single day was so exciting because it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: twenty days until I'm my one year, five more days,
Speaker 1: and then after the year it's like you crash again. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that it's important. You know, Eric,
Speaker 1: you said about celebrating milestones in the twelve step program
Speaker 1: and how that's helpful. I mean, I think we always
Speaker 1: need something to look forward to. I think that just
Speaker 1: makes us happier before, during, and after. But what you're
Speaker 1: looking forward to needs to shift. I mean I still
Speaker 1: for my annual sober versary, I guess I take the
Speaker 1: day off of work, I do exactly what I want.
Speaker 1: I planned something for myself because even though people in
Speaker 1: my life, no, I mean they know because I tell
Speaker 1: them that it's coming up, because I want them to
Speaker 1: like acknowledge it, but they don't get it, you know,
Speaker 1: they don't get it's a big deal. So for my
Speaker 1: one year, I went to as she Recovers yoga event
Speaker 1: in Seattle and was gathered with all these women, and
Speaker 1: you know, it was just really special. But then the
Speaker 1: next day I went to Mexico with my family and
Speaker 1: it was my first big sober vacation. But I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, my year two, I was just living. You know,
Speaker 1: the first year you're learning how to do everything, and
Speaker 1: the second year, I was just living. But I really
Speaker 1: focused on joy, so just planning all the little things
Speaker 1: that would make me happy. So I got kittens and
Speaker 1: you know, took up doing a triathlon again, and just
Speaker 1: little things that made me happy that we're sort of
Speaker 1: incompatible with being drunk and passed out on my couch.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for having this conversation with
Speaker 1: me and sharing everything. This was very insightful and I
Speaker 1: think we all have very different experiences, but there's a
Speaker 1: lot of similarities too in the way that we think,
Speaker 1: in the way we've approached things. If someone wants to
Speaker 1: learn more about you and connect with your work, Eric,
Speaker 1: where can they go do that? When you feed dot net,
Speaker 1: oh any y o u f e ed dot net
Speaker 1: or look for the one you feed pod cast anywhere
Speaker 1: you get your podcast, you'll notice it. It has a
Speaker 1: little two wolf heads on it. It's fairly distinctive. Thank
Speaker 1: you and Dave. Where can people connect with you and
Speaker 1: your work? Sure? My podcast is One for the Road
Speaker 1: and you can find that on all your podcast platforms
Speaker 1: and all my other details, my coaching, my book, everything
Speaker 1: on my instagram at Soberive. Thank you, Dave and Casey.
Speaker 1: Where can we connect with your work? Yeah? My podcast
Speaker 1: is called the Hello Someday Podcast and you can find
Speaker 1: that anywhere you listen. And my website is Hello Someday
Speaker 1: Coaching dot com and I've got a bunch of free
Speaker 1: guides on there if anyone's interested. Thank you awesome, And
Speaker 1: if anyone wants to connect with me, my podcast is
Speaker 1: called sober Powered. That's my instagram, my website, and you
Speaker 1: can learn more about that at sober powered dot com.
Speaker 1: So thank you guys again so much for joining me today.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. This was really fun and I
Speaker 1: think we accomplish what we hope to its show there's
Speaker 1: lots of different paths here, there's lots of different ways
Speaker 1: of feeling about this, and there is lots of solutions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and whatever you try, you can always try a different
Speaker 1: thing and sobriety evolves as you keep going in it.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, if what you just heard was helpful to you,
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