WEBVTT - Steve Jones: From Sex Pistol to Lonely Boy 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.200 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:14.680 Thing from iHeart Radio GA, I Stop. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:19.680 Stop, Don't Wanna want that. 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:28.960 Guest pass by Canza. That is, of course, the sex Pistols, 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.440 with Anarchy in the UK off their nineteen seventy seven 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:42.000 album never Mind the Bollocks. Here's the sex Pistols. The 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.680 song and the album feature My Guest Today guitarist and 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:52.680 musician Steve Jones. While many have laid claim to inventing 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.920 punk rock, Jones and the band are the actual creators 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.720 of the genre. Although the name was given to them 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:05.120 by the Friend designer Vivian Westwood. Jones is nothing if 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:10.080 not surprising. He overcame a challenging lower class upbringing in 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.840 Britain to become a founding member of one of the 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:17.640 most influential bands in music. Although The sex Pistol's nineteen 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.479 seventy seven debut would be their only release, the band 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.840 left an indelible mark on music and culture. After The 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:29.280 Pistol's breakup, Jones went on to perform in the bands 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:34.240 The Professionals and Neurotic Outsiders. He also released his own 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:40.200 solo work and Steve Jones' career continued to evolve. He 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:45.480 hosted a daily radio show, Jonesy's Jukebox for almost two decades, 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.600 and his memoir Lonely Boy was developed into the popular 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:55.360 FX series Pistol, directed by filmmaker Danny Boyle and the 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:59.440 most surprising part. Jones is also one of my favorite 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:04.160 performers on social media. He's known for playing heartfelt and 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:09.320 beautiful songs in his shower showcasing the softer side of 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.920 the legendary punk rock star. I wanted to get his 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.480 take on building a musical genre and what was really 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:18.440 behind the punk rock movement. 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.320 Well, we didn't form a band and say let's be 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:28.600 punk rock. It was a word that came after us forming. Actually, 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:33.679 it was a word that this American lady who lived 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.480 in London called Caroline Coon. I think she was the 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:41.320 first one to write it in the Melody Maker punk rock. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.119 It just was a word that came up. But as 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.280 far as what does it mean, I mean, it's the 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.840 same thing as or Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis. You know, 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.400 to me, it's just rock and roll. There was a 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.760 lot of fashion slung in there with Vivian west With 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.280 and Malcolm McLaren and it was the right time and 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:05.880 we were just the next generation of young people who 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:10.840 didn't like old people. You know, he just wanted something different. 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.360 It's what, it's what, that's what happens. It's like every 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.560 generation should be doing that, you know. 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.120 It's their own means of expressing how much they hate 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:20.880 their parents. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.560 Yeah, that and everything else, even if it's just nonsense, 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.360 you know, rebelling. What's the famous line in the movie 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.720 in what you're rebelling against? Where you're going? You got 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.640 you know, it's the same. It's the same stuff. Nothing's new. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:40.040 There's a documentary. I watched Sex Pistols documentary, Filth and 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.680 the Fury. Yes, the Filth and the Fury. There you 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:47.440 go things the Filth and the Fury comes and I 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.680 love that film. I loved it because they really take 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.640 their time and lay the context in there of how 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.640 horrible it was in England and in London at that time. 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.160 The poverty and the job was this, and the inflation 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.240 and everything was that a part of it too? Was 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:02.720 it just you? 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:02.880 You? 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.040 You did? You hate it there and just dream of 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:06.240 getting the hell out of there. 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:10.240 I didn't. I didn't really pay attention to what was 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.920 going on. Around me. To be honest with you, I 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.440 just it was just growing up. I didn't feel like 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:21.919 I was poor. I had a crappy upbringing by my stepfather. 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.720 It was abusive. My mother wasn't really looking back there. 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.600 I think she was a little bit crazy, like really crazy, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:33.200 and we were dirt poor, you know. But all I 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.400 wanted to do when I was like really young, like 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.400 ten to eleven, was just to go up the West 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:43.960 End and around Piccadilly and just walk around looking for excitement. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.320 That was it. I didn't. I mean I did notice 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.960 some trash bags here and there, but I really didn't 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.960 care about any any of that stuff. You know, John Lyon, 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:56.640 he was a lot sharper, you know what I mean. 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.120 I was pretty simple. I just wanted to do what 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.880 most teenagers want to do is get laid, have a laugh, 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:05.039 and get drunk. 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:05.640 Yeah. 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.040 That was pretty much. Yeah, I'm not one of them. 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:13.960 The clash was more political than the sex pistols. I 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:18.960 think I think we didn't take ourselves serious. Like the 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:23.680 clash the class seemed very serious. But I'm not taking 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:28.520 away what we concocted, which was just a fluke. You know, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.200 It's four guys. You just got together. It just happened 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.720 to be that the four guys. This was before Sid 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:39.000 when we had Glenn Matlock as the bass player, and 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.520 it was just magic for two years and then it 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.039 kind of started fizzling away. 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:49.000 So home was tough. Your stepfather was abusive. You write 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.760 all of this in your book Lonely Boy. Your dad disappeared. 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.240 You're reconnected with your real dad when you were fifty correct. 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:59.760 Oh, I never knew, but my friend kind of pushed 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.480 me to to look him up and I did. And 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.800 so it was in two thousand and eight and we 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.560 were touring sex pistols. We did like thirty shows, did 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:13.240 a bunch of festivals in Europe, and I'd spoken to 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.760 him one time. He kind of put two and two 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.200 together what was happening, and he agreed to meet me, 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.800 and I went up to Nottingham. He lived in Nottingham. 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.840 He got married after he left my mum. He has 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.279 three kids my age and I met him and that 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:34.200 was bizarre. How so Well, his voice is exactly the same, 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.240 and he really does look like me. And he was 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.479 a truck driver most of his life and he was 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.360 an amateur boxer. And I met him and we went 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.920 in this caf around a corner from the station in Nottingham, 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.400 and he was just he wouldn't shut up. He was 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.320 so guilt ridden, he just wouldn't be quiet. I'm like, 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:55.719 I don't care, shut up. I just want to receive 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.880 if you had hair or not. You know, I liked him, 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.359 actually liked him. They were young when they had me. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:03.880 You know. 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:06.839 Yeah, you think you would you be capable of doing 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:08.880 the same thing, you know, easy. 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:14.080 Yeah, So I've got no qualms with him. He's dead now. 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.160 My mom died around they were like eighty two. They 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.720 both kind of died the same time. Even though they 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.400 never spoke or anything since he left. 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.000 Really they never communicated. When you saw him, did you 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.120 either forgive him or have the impulse to forgive him? 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.000 Yeah? I made it clear I didn't like a form more. 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.560 You know, I just said, look, it's all good, you know, 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.160 you don't have to keep going on about this, that 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.240 and the other. I really wanted to see you, and 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.160 I'm glad it turned out the way it did. My 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.520 biggest fear was when I called him and he was 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:55.760 going to say, I don't want nothing to do with you, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.840 and that was it. So I think it turned out 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.120 pretty good a couple of times after that, and he 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:03.600 sent me a let and then that was it. It 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.360 just fizzled out. I had no desire to want to, 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.080 you know, hang out with him and all that was 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:10.680 that was long gone. 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:13.440 Now when you, I mean, we're going to meander here. 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:18.960 But when you after your heyday with the band and 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.520 that white hot period, had you visited Los Angeles? So 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.840 when did you first go to Los Angeles? And are 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:26.520 you like a lot of brits Ie now where they 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:28.200 walk out there and they're like, this is it, man, 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.280 I'm moving here the sunshine and blah blah. 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.480 Blah pretty much? I mean not at first. The first 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.800 time I came to LA is when the Pistols played. 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:39.800 We actually didn't play in LA but we did like 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:46.520 twelve shows or whatever. It was in January nineteen seventy eight. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:52.520 January seventy eight, and we ended in San Francisco and 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.920 we broke up, and me and Cookie the drama and 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.319 the manager, Malcolm, we came to LA for a few days. 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.319 I didn't really get it at the time. I remember 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:06.280 we went in the Palm restaurant that was on Little 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:11.080 Santa Monica at the time and Malcolm's like, yeah, go on, 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.400 do something, throw some lobsters around, and we did it 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:19.079 like idiots. And then the next day we went to Brazil. 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.760 So I didn't really get the whole thing, but I 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.640 did get the whole thing in Hollywood, I mean, you know, 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.640 Los Angeles, whatever, Beverly Hills. A couple of years later, 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.640 when I went back there and produced this band called 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.880 The Avengers in San Francisco. They were one of the 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.000 bands that opened up for us on our last show 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.760 at the winter Land, and I produced this little weep. 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.040 I didn't know what I was doing. I was stoning 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.040 out of my mind on weed. Then I came to 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:53.480 LA and I hung out for a couple of weeks, 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.040 and that's when I fell in love with Los Angeles. 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:02.200 There was no traffic, big roads, big privacy. It was 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.079 just you know, night and day. Coming from Shepherd's Bush 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.920 in London, it was like Dickens, you know, like the 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.360 Dickens to Fantasy Island, you. 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:12.760 Know, Saversham's House. 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.640 I put it in my book. There was one moment 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:21.120 there was this lady who I met. She had a 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.959 big convertible. She had the convertible down a big, massive 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:28.200 Cadillac whatever it was. And she lived on Beverly Glen 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.040 and she goes, you want to go to see a movie? 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.960 And we went to see a drive in movie and 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.840 I'm smoking a joint. The tops down were just cruising 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.640 along and I'm like, I love this place. It just 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:49.480 all clicked, coming from Dickens to that, you know, Hollywood. 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:51.880 You know, it was the best. 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:57.400 Oh Man, Yeah, described to me that concert at winter Land, 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.360 because that's when that's when all the wheels fall off. 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.960 Correct, they were falling off before that, but that was 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.480 that was the end. That was like, it didn't look 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.120 like it was going any further. 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.040 Because the show sucked. What was the show? 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:13.200 Like? No, the show, well, I had the flu. It 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:19.480 was just it was getting sloppy. Were not communicating with 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:24.600 each other. Everyone's egos were going in different directions. And 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.719 we were twenty years old, you know, twenty one, and 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:33.240 it was just all this bombasket stuff that happened to 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.800 us really quick, and I couldn't handle it. I don't 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.559 know about the rest of the guys. I was relieved 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.160 when we broke up. They were I decided I've had 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.480 enough of this. I just I don't see a future 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.920 in it, you know, and that was it. And I 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.040 think it was manipulated a bit by Malcolm McClaren, the 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:57.880 manager attend. Yeah, that's right up his alley. That just 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.680 doing stuff like that, just you know, he wanted to 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:01.680 be a star, you. 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.760 Know, he wanted the band to end. 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.120 I think so that's just his nature. I think the 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.960 fad ended. He don't like normalcy, you know, he likes 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:14.640 the chaos. 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:17.280 And maybe he thought you guys were going to go 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.920 much further. If everybody's so self destructive back then and 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.679 you're the manager, you think McLaren thought you guys were, 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:25.000 you know, reaching the end. 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:29.199 Anyway, I think he's a narcissist or he was a narcissist. 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.080 And I didn't think he fought that deep about other people, right. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.800 I think he was more about just keeping that. He 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.840 was great at you know, publicity. He was excellent as that. 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.200 You know, some of the things that he came up 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:47.000 with were great. I love Malcolm. Even though you know 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:51.920 we got turned over financially, I still love McLaren. He 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.319 was a big part of my growing up. 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.800 Now when you mentioned that turned over financially, was McLaren 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.400 Was he the partner Westward? Were they together as a 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.360 couple or no, oh yeah, think were I don't know that. 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.280 I mean, I know her name, but I don't know, 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:07.520 but they were. They were a. 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.160 Couple, Oh yeah, for sure. 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:10.920 And you first met them where. 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.600 I met them in the shop they had down King's Road. 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.760 And it went through various names, but it was all 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.480 First it was too fast to live, too young to die. 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.080 Then it changed selling like teddy boy clothes. I don't 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.280 know if that term teddy boys is known in America. 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.840 Yes, of people like me who know British music. 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:35.920 Yeah, yeah, fifties music, but it wasn't the fifties, but 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.160 they would sell stuff like that, and then it was 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.800 then it was lead it rock, and then it was seditionaries. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:45.680 That's when the punk thing, and it was all the 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.040 bondage and all the MPs would go in there and 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:52.320 try on rob and nickers and play with themselves. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.520 They couldn't get elected if you didn't do that, and 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:55.080 you come out. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.839 It was a great time and now it's the world's end. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:02.840 It's still viving westward now. 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:07.720 Now when you say you got tossed financially at various points, 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.559 let's say when you're recording and you're making this epic 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.600 album and beyond who owns the rights? Who owns that music? 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.679 Well, we do now you do you know? And whoever 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:23.240 the publisher is for the songwriting. But it has all 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:28.640 come back to us only because John Wright and wanted 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.400 to sue him a few years later Malcolm. Yeah, and 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.760 he did, and otherwise it would have all went to Malcolm. 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.120 We had the worst deal. We had one lawyer, it 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.960 was Malcolm's lawyer, and we just signed pieces of paper. 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:48.000 We didn't even exactly, We didn't know what was going on. 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.360 Not that it ain't the first time that happens, and 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.400 it will keep happening. It will keep happening because when 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.920 you're young, you don't know. You just want to get 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.400 out there and you know, get on the stage. 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:03.600 So when the original series is launched, the idea comes 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.200 to you or anybody for that matter, to do Pistol. Yeah, 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:11.000 a sixth part dramatic series about you guys. You've got 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.160 to give them the rights to the music, correct. Yeah, 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.680 And we had a problem with John. He didn't want 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.520 to allow it. He didn't want the series to happen. 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:25.040 Did he say why, Well, I can only think that 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.520 it wasn't his book. They were doing a thing on 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.680 it was mine right, that could have played a part. 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:35.400 I'm not sure, but I was thrilled that Danny Boyle 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:37.360 wanted to do that. 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:38.240 Great director. 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:42.280 Yeah, yeah, and he did a good job. I loved it. Yeah, 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:43.920 it was really good. 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:45.160 What did you like about it? 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.080 I think, like you said about the filth and the fury, 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:52.520 how it captured a time. I think he really captured 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:56.600 the time with all the sets and whatnot. I just 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:58.200 thought it was great. I just wish they had had 0:15:58.200 --> 0:15:58.920 more on me in it. 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.160 Well, what's it like for you to see? Because when 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.760 you do a narrative piece that six episodes or five, 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.080 or a movie that's a couple of hours, there's an 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:14.320 idea about Steve Jones and Pistol that they want to 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:18.080 get across the person themselves is a suggestion. The piece 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.760 isn't about your life, you know, verbatim, and in real 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.160 time it's not. It can't be. What do you think 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.040 of the guy that played you? What did you When 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.240 you're watching that guy, you're saying, yeah, that's me. 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.520 I think he did a good job. He's Australian, right, 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.800 so he had to kind of change his accent. He 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.400 ain't as good looking as me before. That's because of 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.080 that saying, yeah, no one, they couldn't find anyone. I 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.200 couldn't absorb it. To be honest, if you when i'd 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.720 see when I see, you know, an episode put together 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.280 in a rough stage, I'm looking at it. I'm like, 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.080 I'm not in that. I'm not in it. It's like 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.640 that ain't me, even though he's playing me. I couldn't. 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:00.280 I couldn't absorb it. It was the weirdest feeling. I 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.200 fall down in shit and I always come up smelling 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.600 the roses. You know, God's good for me. 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:13.639 Musician Steve Jones. If you enjoy conversations with some of 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:18.080 music's greatest guitarists, check out my episode with Peter Frampton. 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:24.040 Sound is very inspirational to me. I remember the reason 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.879 that I wanted to learn guitar was because I heard 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.359 the sounds of all these people on TV and on 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.080 the radio electric guitar very young. I have a very 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:39.040 acute sense of sound, and I've always had that if 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:43.280 I don't have a good sound, I can't play very well. 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.399 Hear more of my conversation with Peter Frampton at Here's 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:51.840 the Thing dot Org. After the break, Steve Jones shares 0:17:52.280 --> 0:18:06.720 how the sex Pistols lineup came to be. I'm Alec 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.320 Baldwin and you're listening to here is the Thing. Steve 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:14.440 Jones and the sex Pistols cracked open issues of class 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.600 and culture in Great Britain in the nineteen seventies. Songs 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:21.720 like God Save the Queen and Anarchy in the UK 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.880 helped them become both a symbol of political turmoil and 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:30.280 an international sensation. I wanted to know if growing up, 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.480 Steve Jones ever thought he would become a world famous musician. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.200 No, you never. I never thought that, you know. When 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.119 I'd watched Top of the Pops, I thought these bands 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.159 and that they fell from mars. I didn't know it 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:49.560 was possible to do anything like that, you know. And 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.080 and next thing, you know, here I am. You know, 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.560 I steal all this musical equipment. I was good at, 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.000 you know, being a tea leaf. I always add these 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.359 to want to do it because I love music, you know, 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.240 at an early age, and it was just one of 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:12.439 them things. It seemed totally natural to become popular and 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.879 famous and a big band. I didn't realize that most 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:19.920 musicians that doesn't happen, you. 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.840 Know, now you started off as a singer. You're singing 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:25.720 and you passed that baton quick Why? 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:28.960 I couldn't handle it. I got on the stage once 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.600 and I just freaked out. It was way too much 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.800 for me. I was not ready for that. This is 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:39.320 when Malcolm came up with the name Q E. Jones 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:43.240 and the Sex Pistols. And it was me. I was 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:48.000 singing this other guy, Wally Nightingale and Glenn Matlock, the 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.359 original bass player, and we was rehearsing, rehearse in, rehearsing, 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.639 and he like, got us this gig and we're doing 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.160 a lot of covers. I think we had one original. 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:03.080 We played this Salter's Cafe a down King's Road. I 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:07.920 was terrified. I was absolutely terrified. And I couldn't even 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.879 tell you what happened. It wasn't for me. My self 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:14.520 esteem weren't good. 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.440 Did it just so happen that you've had a confident 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.159 vocalist near you or did you tell him he had 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:22.679 to become a vocalist the way you became a guitarist. 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:24.800 Did he have to work at it? Well? 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.840 After that failure show, we auditioned for a singer. And 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:33.239 this when John used to come into Malcolm's shop and 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.640 then we auditioned him in the shop. Now this when 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:38.800 when I heard this guy, I'm like, who is this clown? 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.040 He can't sing? We don't we don't want it, and 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.480 we want someone like Rod Stewart, you know. But that 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.760 was it, you know, it was it. It was this magic 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.359 and it took you know a little while, and then 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:55.399 we were like, wow, this is this is rotten? Yeah, yeah, 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.800 and it was complete. Then it was complete. You know. 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.400 Obviously you write about and much has written about you 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.439 that you didn't play the guitar early on as a 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.800 child and so forth, and then you flash ahead and 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.680 you're on Rolling Stones list of the one hundred greatest 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.240 guitarists in history. How did that happen? 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:17.719 Well, I used to do a lot of speed. 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:19.320 Really. 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:22.879 That gave me the focus. You know. I had that 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:25.240 thing what kids have now ADT. 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:27.000 Or whatever it is ADHD. 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.240 Yeah, I definitely had that. I had no attention span. 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:33.280 I didn't I went to school. I just sat in 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.320 the back and just didn't even learn anything. I couldn't 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.800 even read and write, which I sought it out later 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.440 in years after getting clean, and so I actually had 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:47.080 a tutor to help me read and write. I couldn't 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:48.000 even sign a check. 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:49.920 But you dug down and you learned how to play. 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.439 I read where you said you take a chord and 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:55.280 play that chord for like five hours until you got 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.879 that down. You did it step by step. 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:03.280 The Black Beauty Way of learning guitar, the Black Beauty School. 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.760 Yeah, I love it now, speaking of Black Beauties. Two 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.960 weeks ago, this past Friday, on the twenty third of February, 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:14.760 I had my thirty ninth anniversary. 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.439 At AA Oh Beautiful. 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:20.080 Now. I don't talk about sobriety that much on the show, 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:23.920 but if I find it's worthwhile, I will. And for you, 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.359 when did you realize something had to change? And how 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:29.840 quickly thereafter did you change it? 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:34.120 Well, I'm thirty three years at Cleveland sober. 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:36.639 That's where I met you. Out there, Yeah. 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:41.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I drifted out to California, not 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:43.200 the time when I fell in love with it. Later 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:45.919 I was in this the band broke up, we went 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:49.119 to England. I started this other band called the Professionals, 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.040 and we did a tour. I ended up in New York. 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:54.040 I didn't get on the plane. I stayed in New 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:57.879 York for about a year, I sold my passport and 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.720 then I got this other band together, or a band 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:04.600 was We played at the Pep Momint Lounge. It was 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:09.840 like a showcase with Michael Debar's and two of the 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:13.520 guys from Blondie and it was great. But they were 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:17.200 all based in la And then I drifted out to La. 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:21.480 I detoxed. I went to some methodone place in set 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:25.560 a high end methodone place in Century City, and I 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:30.520 got clean and I started living with Michael Debars, but 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:34.200