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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio GA, I Stop.

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Speaker 2: Stop, Don't Wanna want that.

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Speaker 1: Guest pass by Canza. That is, of course, the sex Pistols,

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Speaker 1: with Anarchy in the UK off their nineteen seventy seven

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Speaker 1: album never Mind the Bollocks. Here's the sex Pistols. The

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Speaker 1: song and the album feature My Guest Today guitarist and

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Speaker 1: musician Steve Jones. While many have laid claim to inventing

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Speaker 1: punk rock, Jones and the band are the actual creators

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Speaker 1: of the genre. Although the name was given to them

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Speaker 1: by the Friend designer Vivian Westwood. Jones is nothing if

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Speaker 1: not surprising. He overcame a challenging lower class upbringing in

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Speaker 1: Britain to become a founding member of one of the

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Speaker 1: most influential bands in music. Although The sex Pistol's nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy seven debut would be their only release, the band

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Speaker 1: left an indelible mark on music and culture. After The

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Speaker 1: Pistol's breakup, Jones went on to perform in the bands

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Speaker 1: The Professionals and Neurotic Outsiders. He also released his own

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Speaker 1: solo work and Steve Jones' career continued to evolve. He

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Speaker 1: hosted a daily radio show, Jonesy's Jukebox for almost two decades,

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Speaker 1: and his memoir Lonely Boy was developed into the popular

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Speaker 1: FX series Pistol, directed by filmmaker Danny Boyle and the

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Speaker 1: most surprising part. Jones is also one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: performers on social media. He's known for playing heartfelt and

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Speaker 1: beautiful songs in his shower showcasing the softer side of

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Speaker 1: the legendary punk rock star. I wanted to get his

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Speaker 1: take on building a musical genre and what was really

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Speaker 1: behind the punk rock movement.

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Speaker 3: Well, we didn't form a band and say let's be

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Speaker 3: punk rock. It was a word that came after us forming. Actually,

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Speaker 3: it was a word that this American lady who lived

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Speaker 3: in London called Caroline Coon. I think she was the

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Speaker 3: first one to write it in the Melody Maker punk rock.

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Speaker 3: It just was a word that came up. But as

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Speaker 3: far as what does it mean, I mean, it's the

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Speaker 3: same thing as or Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis. You know,

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Speaker 3: to me, it's just rock and roll. There was a

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Speaker 3: lot of fashion slung in there with Vivian west With

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Speaker 3: and Malcolm McLaren and it was the right time and

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Speaker 3: we were just the next generation of young people who

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Speaker 3: didn't like old people. You know, he just wanted something different.

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Speaker 3: It's what, it's what, that's what happens. It's like every

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Speaker 3: generation should be doing that, you know.

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Speaker 1: It's their own means of expressing how much they hate

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Speaker 1: their parents.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that and everything else, even if it's just nonsense,

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Speaker 3: you know, rebelling. What's the famous line in the movie

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Speaker 3: in what you're rebelling against? Where you're going? You got

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Speaker 3: you know, it's the same. It's the same stuff. Nothing's new.

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Speaker 1: There's a documentary. I watched Sex Pistols documentary, Filth and

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Speaker 1: the Fury. Yes, the Filth and the Fury. There you

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Speaker 1: go things the Filth and the Fury comes and I

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Speaker 1: love that film. I loved it because they really take

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Speaker 1: their time and lay the context in there of how

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Speaker 1: horrible it was in England and in London at that time.

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Speaker 1: The poverty and the job was this, and the inflation

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Speaker 1: and everything was that a part of it too? Was

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Speaker 1: it just you?

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Speaker 3: You?

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Speaker 1: You did? You hate it there and just dream of

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Speaker 1: getting the hell out of there.

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Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't really pay attention to what was

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Speaker 3: going on. Around me. To be honest with you, I

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Speaker 3: just it was just growing up. I didn't feel like

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Speaker 3: I was poor. I had a crappy upbringing by my stepfather.

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Speaker 3: It was abusive. My mother wasn't really looking back there.

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Speaker 3: I think she was a little bit crazy, like really crazy,

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Speaker 3: and we were dirt poor, you know. But all I

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Speaker 3: wanted to do when I was like really young, like

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Speaker 3: ten to eleven, was just to go up the West

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Speaker 3: End and around Piccadilly and just walk around looking for excitement.

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Speaker 3: That was it. I didn't. I mean I did notice

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Speaker 3: some trash bags here and there, but I really didn't

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Speaker 3: care about any any of that stuff. You know, John Lyon,

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Speaker 3: he was a lot sharper, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: I was pretty simple. I just wanted to do what

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Speaker 3: most teenagers want to do is get laid, have a laugh,

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Speaker 3: and get drunk.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: That was pretty much. Yeah, I'm not one of them.

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Speaker 3: The clash was more political than the sex pistols. I

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Speaker 3: think I think we didn't take ourselves serious. Like the

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Speaker 3: clash the class seemed very serious. But I'm not taking

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Speaker 3: away what we concocted, which was just a fluke. You know,

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Speaker 3: It's four guys. You just got together. It just happened

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Speaker 3: to be that the four guys. This was before Sid

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Speaker 3: when we had Glenn Matlock as the bass player, and

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Speaker 3: it was just magic for two years and then it

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Speaker 3: kind of started fizzling away.

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Speaker 1: So home was tough. Your stepfather was abusive. You write

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Speaker 1: all of this in your book Lonely Boy. Your dad disappeared.

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Speaker 1: You're reconnected with your real dad when you were fifty correct.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I never knew, but my friend kind of pushed

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Speaker 3: me to to look him up and I did. And

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Speaker 3: so it was in two thousand and eight and we

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Speaker 3: were touring sex pistols. We did like thirty shows, did

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Speaker 3: a bunch of festivals in Europe, and I'd spoken to

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Speaker 3: him one time. He kind of put two and two

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Speaker 3: together what was happening, and he agreed to meet me,

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Speaker 3: and I went up to Nottingham. He lived in Nottingham.

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Speaker 3: He got married after he left my mum. He has

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Speaker 3: three kids my age and I met him and that

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Speaker 3: was bizarre. How so Well, his voice is exactly the same,

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Speaker 3: and he really does look like me. And he was

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Speaker 3: a truck driver most of his life and he was

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Speaker 3: an amateur boxer. And I met him and we went

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Speaker 3: in this caf around a corner from the station in Nottingham,

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Speaker 3: and he was just he wouldn't shut up. He was

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Speaker 3: so guilt ridden, he just wouldn't be quiet. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I don't care, shut up. I just want to receive

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Speaker 3: if you had hair or not. You know, I liked him,

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Speaker 3: actually liked him. They were young when they had me.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you think you would you be capable of doing

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Speaker 1: the same thing, you know, easy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I've got no qualms with him. He's dead now.

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Speaker 3: My mom died around they were like eighty two. They

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Speaker 3: both kind of died the same time. Even though they

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Speaker 3: never spoke or anything since he left.

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Speaker 1: Really they never communicated. When you saw him, did you

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Speaker 1: either forgive him or have the impulse to forgive him?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I made it clear I didn't like a form more.

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Speaker 3: You know, I just said, look, it's all good, you know,

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Speaker 3: you don't have to keep going on about this, that

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Speaker 3: and the other. I really wanted to see you, and

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Speaker 3: I'm glad it turned out the way it did. My

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Speaker 3: biggest fear was when I called him and he was

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Speaker 3: going to say, I don't want nothing to do with you,

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Speaker 3: and that was it. So I think it turned out

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Speaker 3: pretty good a couple of times after that, and he

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Speaker 3: sent me a let and then that was it. It

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Speaker 3: just fizzled out. I had no desire to want to,

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Speaker 3: you know, hang out with him and all that was

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Speaker 3: that was long gone.

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Speaker 1: Now when you, I mean, we're going to meander here.

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Speaker 1: But when you after your heyday with the band and

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Speaker 1: that white hot period, had you visited Los Angeles? So

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Speaker 1: when did you first go to Los Angeles? And are

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Speaker 1: you like a lot of brits Ie now where they

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Speaker 1: walk out there and they're like, this is it, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm moving here the sunshine and blah blah.

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Speaker 3: Blah pretty much? I mean not at first. The first

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Speaker 3: time I came to LA is when the Pistols played.

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Speaker 3: We actually didn't play in LA but we did like

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Speaker 3: twelve shows or whatever. It was in January nineteen seventy eight.

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Speaker 3: January seventy eight, and we ended in San Francisco and

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Speaker 3: we broke up, and me and Cookie the drama and

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Speaker 3: the manager, Malcolm, we came to LA for a few days.

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Speaker 3: I didn't really get it at the time. I remember

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Speaker 3: we went in the Palm restaurant that was on Little

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Speaker 3: Santa Monica at the time and Malcolm's like, yeah, go on,

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Speaker 3: do something, throw some lobsters around, and we did it

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Speaker 3: like idiots. And then the next day we went to Brazil.

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Speaker 3: So I didn't really get the whole thing, but I

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Speaker 3: did get the whole thing in Hollywood, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 3: Los Angeles, whatever, Beverly Hills. A couple of years later,

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Speaker 3: when I went back there and produced this band called

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Speaker 3: The Avengers in San Francisco. They were one of the

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Speaker 3: bands that opened up for us on our last show

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Speaker 3: at the winter Land, and I produced this little weep.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know what I was doing. I was stoning

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Speaker 3: out of my mind on weed. Then I came to

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Speaker 3: LA and I hung out for a couple of weeks,

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Speaker 3: and that's when I fell in love with Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: There was no traffic, big roads, big privacy. It was

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Speaker 3: just you know, night and day. Coming from Shepherd's Bush

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Speaker 3: in London, it was like Dickens, you know, like the

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Speaker 3: Dickens to Fantasy Island, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, Saversham's House.

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Speaker 3: I put it in my book. There was one moment

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Speaker 3: there was this lady who I met. She had a

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Speaker 3: big convertible. She had the convertible down a big, massive

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Speaker 3: Cadillac whatever it was. And she lived on Beverly Glen

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Speaker 3: and she goes, you want to go to see a movie?

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Speaker 3: And we went to see a drive in movie and

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Speaker 3: I'm smoking a joint. The tops down were just cruising

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Speaker 3: along and I'm like, I love this place. It just

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Speaker 3: all clicked, coming from Dickens to that, you know, Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was the best.

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Speaker 1: Oh Man, Yeah, described to me that concert at winter Land,

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Speaker 1: because that's when that's when all the wheels fall off.

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Speaker 3: Correct, they were falling off before that, but that was

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Speaker 3: that was the end. That was like, it didn't look

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Speaker 3: like it was going any further.

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Speaker 1: Because the show sucked. What was the show?

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Speaker 3: Like? No, the show, well, I had the flu. It

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Speaker 3: was just it was getting sloppy. Were not communicating with

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Speaker 3: each other. Everyone's egos were going in different directions. And

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Speaker 3: we were twenty years old, you know, twenty one, and

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Speaker 3: it was just all this bombasket stuff that happened to

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Speaker 3: us really quick, and I couldn't handle it. I don't

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Speaker 3: know about the rest of the guys. I was relieved

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Speaker 3: when we broke up. They were I decided I've had

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Speaker 3: enough of this. I just I don't see a future

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Speaker 3: in it, you know, and that was it. And I

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Speaker 3: think it was manipulated a bit by Malcolm McClaren, the

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Speaker 3: manager attend. Yeah, that's right up his alley. That just

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Speaker 3: doing stuff like that, just you know, he wanted to

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Speaker 3: be a star, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, he wanted the band to end.

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Speaker 3: I think so that's just his nature. I think the

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Speaker 3: fad ended. He don't like normalcy, you know, he likes

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Speaker 3: the chaos.

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Speaker 1: And maybe he thought you guys were going to go

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Speaker 1: much further. If everybody's so self destructive back then and

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Speaker 1: you're the manager, you think McLaren thought you guys were,

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Speaker 1: you know, reaching the end.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, I think he's a narcissist or he was a narcissist.

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Speaker 3: And I didn't think he fought that deep about other people, right.

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Speaker 3: I think he was more about just keeping that. He

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Speaker 3: was great at you know, publicity. He was excellent as that.

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Speaker 3: You know, some of the things that he came up

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Speaker 3: with were great. I love Malcolm. Even though you know

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Speaker 3: we got turned over financially, I still love McLaren. He

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Speaker 3: was a big part of my growing up.

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Speaker 1: Now when you mentioned that turned over financially, was McLaren

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Speaker 1: Was he the partner Westward? Were they together as a

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Speaker 1: couple or no, oh yeah, think were I don't know that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know her name, but I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but they were. They were a.

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Speaker 3: Couple, Oh yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: And you first met them where.

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Speaker 3: I met them in the shop they had down King's Road.

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Speaker 3: And it went through various names, but it was all

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Speaker 3: First it was too fast to live, too young to die.

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Speaker 3: Then it changed selling like teddy boy clothes. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if that term teddy boys is known in America.

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Speaker 1: Yes, of people like me who know British music.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, fifties music, but it wasn't the fifties, but

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Speaker 3: they would sell stuff like that, and then it was

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Speaker 3: then it was lead it rock, and then it was seditionaries.

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Speaker 3: That's when the punk thing, and it was all the

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Speaker 3: bondage and all the MPs would go in there and

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Speaker 3: try on rob and nickers and play with themselves.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't get elected if you didn't do that, and

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Speaker 1: you come out.

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Speaker 3: It was a great time and now it's the world's end.

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Speaker 3: It's still viving westward now.

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Speaker 1: Now when you say you got tossed financially at various points,

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Speaker 1: let's say when you're recording and you're making this epic

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Speaker 1: album and beyond who owns the rights? Who owns that music?

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Speaker 3: Well, we do now you do you know? And whoever

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Speaker 3: the publisher is for the songwriting. But it has all

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Speaker 3: come back to us only because John Wright and wanted

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Speaker 3: to sue him a few years later Malcolm. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: he did, and otherwise it would have all went to Malcolm.

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Speaker 3: We had the worst deal. We had one lawyer, it

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Speaker 3: was Malcolm's lawyer, and we just signed pieces of paper.

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Speaker 3: We didn't even exactly, We didn't know what was going on.

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Speaker 3: Not that it ain't the first time that happens, and

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Speaker 3: it will keep happening. It will keep happening because when

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Speaker 3: you're young, you don't know. You just want to get

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Speaker 3: out there and you know, get on the stage.

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Speaker 1: So when the original series is launched, the idea comes

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Speaker 1: to you or anybody for that matter, to do Pistol. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a sixth part dramatic series about you guys. You've got

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Speaker 1: to give them the rights to the music, correct. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And we had a problem with John. He didn't want

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Speaker 1: to allow it. He didn't want the series to happen.

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Speaker 3: Did he say why, Well, I can only think that

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Speaker 3: it wasn't his book. They were doing a thing on

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Speaker 3: it was mine right, that could have played a part.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure, but I was thrilled that Danny Boyle

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Speaker 3: wanted to do that.

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Speaker 1: Great director.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and he did a good job. I loved it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was really good.

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Speaker 1: What did you like about it?

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Speaker 3: I think, like you said about the filth and the fury,

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Speaker 3: how it captured a time. I think he really captured

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Speaker 3: the time with all the sets and whatnot. I just

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Speaker 3: thought it was great. I just wish they had had

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Speaker 3: more on me in it.

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Speaker 1: Well, what's it like for you to see? Because when

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Speaker 1: you do a narrative piece that six episodes or five,

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Speaker 1: or a movie that's a couple of hours, there's an

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Speaker 1: idea about Steve Jones and Pistol that they want to

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Speaker 1: get across the person themselves is a suggestion. The piece

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Speaker 1: isn't about your life, you know, verbatim, and in real

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Speaker 1: time it's not. It can't be. What do you think

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Speaker 1: of the guy that played you? What did you When

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Speaker 1: you're watching that guy, you're saying, yeah, that's me.

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Speaker 3: I think he did a good job. He's Australian, right,

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Speaker 3: so he had to kind of change his accent. He

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Speaker 3: ain't as good looking as me before. That's because of

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Speaker 3: that saying, yeah, no one, they couldn't find anyone. I

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Speaker 3: couldn't absorb it. To be honest, if you when i'd

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Speaker 3: see when I see, you know, an episode put together

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Speaker 3: in a rough stage, I'm looking at it. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I'm not in that. I'm not in it. It's like

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Speaker 3: that ain't me, even though he's playing me. I couldn't.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't absorb it. It was the weirdest feeling. I

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Speaker 3: fall down in shit and I always come up smelling

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Speaker 3: the roses. You know, God's good for me.

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Speaker 1: Musician Steve Jones. If you enjoy conversations with some of

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Speaker 1: music's greatest guitarists, check out my episode with Peter Frampton.

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Speaker 2: Sound is very inspirational to me. I remember the reason

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Speaker 2: that I wanted to learn guitar was because I heard

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Speaker 2: the sounds of all these people on TV and on

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Speaker 2: the radio electric guitar very young. I have a very

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Speaker 2: acute sense of sound, and I've always had that if

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Speaker 2: I don't have a good sound, I can't play very well.

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Speaker 1: Hear more of my conversation with Peter Frampton at Here's

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Speaker 1: the Thing dot Org. After the break, Steve Jones shares

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Speaker 1: how the sex Pistols lineup came to be. I'm Alec

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Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to here is the Thing. Steve

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Speaker 1: Jones and the sex Pistols cracked open issues of class

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Speaker 1: and culture in Great Britain in the nineteen seventies. Songs

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Speaker 1: like God Save the Queen and Anarchy in the UK

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Speaker 1: helped them become both a symbol of political turmoil and

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Speaker 1: an international sensation. I wanted to know if growing up,

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Speaker 1: Steve Jones ever thought he would become a world famous musician.

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Speaker 3: No, you never. I never thought that, you know. When

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Speaker 3: I'd watched Top of the Pops, I thought these bands

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Speaker 3: and that they fell from mars. I didn't know it

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Speaker 3: was possible to do anything like that, you know. And

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Speaker 3: and next thing, you know, here I am. You know,

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Speaker 3: I steal all this musical equipment. I was good at,

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Speaker 3: you know, being a tea leaf. I always add these

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Speaker 3: to want to do it because I love music, you know,

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Speaker 3: at an early age, and it was just one of

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Speaker 3: them things. It seemed totally natural to become popular and

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Speaker 3: famous and a big band. I didn't realize that most

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Speaker 3: musicians that doesn't happen, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, now you started off as a singer. You're singing

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Speaker 1: and you passed that baton quick Why?

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Speaker 3: I couldn't handle it. I got on the stage once

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Speaker 3: and I just freaked out. It was way too much

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Speaker 3: for me. I was not ready for that. This is

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Speaker 3: when Malcolm came up with the name Q E. Jones

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Speaker 3: and the Sex Pistols. And it was me. I was

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Speaker 3: singing this other guy, Wally Nightingale and Glenn Matlock, the

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Speaker 3: original bass player, and we was rehearsing, rehearse in, rehearsing,

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Speaker 3: and he like, got us this gig and we're doing

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Speaker 3: a lot of covers. I think we had one original.

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Speaker 3: We played this Salter's Cafe a down King's Road. I

337
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 3: was terrified. I was absolutely terrified. And I couldn't even

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Speaker 3: tell you what happened. It wasn't for me. My self

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Speaker 3: esteem weren't good.

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Speaker 1: Did it just so happen that you've had a confident

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Speaker 1: vocalist near you or did you tell him he had

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Speaker 1: to become a vocalist the way you became a guitarist.

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Speaker 1: Did he have to work at it? Well?

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Speaker 3: After that failure show, we auditioned for a singer. And

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Speaker 3: this when John used to come into Malcolm's shop and

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Speaker 3: then we auditioned him in the shop. Now this when

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Speaker 3: when I heard this guy, I'm like, who is this clown?

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Speaker 3: He can't sing? We don't we don't want it, and

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Speaker 3: we want someone like Rod Stewart, you know. But that

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Speaker 3: was it, you know, it was it. It was this magic

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Speaker 3: and it took you know a little while, and then

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Speaker 3: we were like, wow, this is this is rotten? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and it was complete. Then it was complete. You know.

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Speaker 1: Obviously you write about and much has written about you

355
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 1: that you didn't play the guitar early on as a

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Speaker 1: child and so forth, and then you flash ahead and

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Speaker 1: you're on Rolling Stones list of the one hundred greatest

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Speaker 1: guitarists in history. How did that happen?

359
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,719
Speaker 3: Well, I used to do a lot of speed.

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Speaker 1: Really.

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Speaker 3: That gave me the focus. You know. I had that

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Speaker 3: thing what kids have now ADT.

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Speaker 1: Or whatever it is ADHD.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely had that. I had no attention span.

365
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Speaker 3: I didn't I went to school. I just sat in

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Speaker 3: the back and just didn't even learn anything. I couldn't

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Speaker 3: even read and write, which I sought it out later

368
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Speaker 3: in years after getting clean, and so I actually had

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Speaker 3: a tutor to help me read and write. I couldn't

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Speaker 3: even sign a check.

371
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Speaker 1: But you dug down and you learned how to play.

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Speaker 1: I read where you said you take a chord and

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Speaker 1: play that chord for like five hours until you got

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Speaker 1: that down. You did it step by step.

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Speaker 3: The Black Beauty Way of learning guitar, the Black Beauty School.

376
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it now, speaking of Black Beauties. Two

377
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 1: weeks ago, this past Friday, on the twenty third of February,

378
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Speaker 1: I had my thirty ninth anniversary.

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Speaker 3: At AA Oh Beautiful.

380
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Speaker 1: Now. I don't talk about sobriety that much on the show,

381
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Speaker 1: but if I find it's worthwhile, I will. And for you,

382
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 1: when did you realize something had to change? And how

383
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Speaker 1: quickly thereafter did you change it?

384
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Speaker 3: Well, I'm thirty three years at Cleveland sober.

385
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Speaker 1: That's where I met you. Out there, Yeah.

386
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well I drifted out to California, not

387
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Speaker 3: the time when I fell in love with it. Later

388
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Speaker 3: I was in this the band broke up, we went

389
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Speaker 3: to England. I started this other band called the Professionals,

390
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Speaker 3: and we did a tour. I ended up in New York.

391
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Speaker 3: I didn't get on the plane. I stayed in New

392
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Speaker 3: York for about a year, I sold my passport and

393
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Speaker 3: then I got this other band together, or a band

394
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 3: was We played at the Pep Momint Lounge. It was

395
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Speaker 3: like a showcase with Michael Debar's and two of the

396
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 3: guys from Blondie and it was great. But they were

397
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 3: all based in la And then I drifted out to La.

398
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 3: I detoxed. I went to some methodone place in set

399
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: a high end methodone place in Century City, and I

400
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 3: got clean and I started living with Michael Debars, but

401
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 3: I wasn't ready to be sober, and so i'd hung

402
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Speaker 3: out with him when I lived with him for a while,

403
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: and then I did start to be aware of alcoholics anonymous,

404
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 3: but it shook me another six years of being homeless,

405
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 3: slept on someone's couch who was sober, and then I

406
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 3: would get thirty days, sixty days, you know. I started going.

407
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 3: I liked it, the attention, it was felt like a

408
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 3: safe place. But I had no clue of what was

409
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 3: going on. And it took me, you know, a few

410
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: more years when the coin dropped and I'm like, I'm done.

411
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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, it's the best thing that's ever happened

412
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Speaker 3: to me. You know, Prior at his two lives is

413
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 3: before sobriety and now sobriety. I'm not a completely different person,

414
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Speaker 3: and I didn't know. I didn't know that this was

415
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 3: going to be in my journey at all. But I

416
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 3: was living up. I was making money at this point,

417
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 3: and I was living up in the canyon making money

418
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 3: how doing solo stuff. I started working with Iggy Pop

419
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: and Andy Taylor from Deuran Duran, playing guitar sessions, yeah,

420
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 3: and riting. I couldn't get arrested. Prior to that, I

421
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 3: had the worst reputation because I couldn't keep my hands

422
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 3: in my pockets. Everything disappeared and I was just, you know,

423
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: a junkie. No one wants to really hang out. So yeah,

424
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 3: it took a long time. But I remember the last

425
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: relapse that I had. I bet some guy in the

426
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Speaker 3: valley and I was buying balloons off him. It wasn't working,

427
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 3: and I went back. I took a victim a new bile.

428
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: We were shooting up and I'm like, you know what,

429
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Speaker 3: I need to go back and get my shit together.

430
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 3: And so I got a bunch of kludes and some

431
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 3: other painkillers and I was going to get sober and

432
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 3: sneak back in to the rooms and no one would know.

433
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 3: And I lasted about two hours and that's when the

434
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 3: coin literally dropped, and I'm like, I'm done. I just

435
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 3: can't do this anymore. And it wasn't financial or anything

436
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 3: like that. It was emotional and that was it. It

437
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: was just all of a sudden after going to AA

438
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 3: for about six or seven years, in and out, in

439
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 3: and out, that was when the coin dropped, and that's

440
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 3: when it all changed.

441
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 1: The book is filled with these brilliant phrases like incomprehensible demoralization.

442
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: That phrase just was tattooed on my forehead. I was

443
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: incomprehensibly demoralized. When you got sober and you stayed sober

444
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: for quite some time, how did that change your life

445
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: in terms of friends. Did you maintain some of the

446
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: old friends and people who weren't sober, or did all

447
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: your friends become sober people.

448
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 3: I really didn't have a lot of friends. They didn't

449
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: want to be my friend because I wasn't a good friend.

450
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 3: There was a few. I was so desperate, you know,

451
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 3: I was so desperate when I got sober for real

452
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: that everyone I hung out with was in the rooms.

453
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: But that's what I did.

454
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: That was it. I didn't want to hang out with

455
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 3: other people. I had a friend of mine visit me

456
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 3: once from England who was a witness school with. His

457
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 3: name was Jimmy Mackin. He was a really, really bad drunk.

458
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: I mean, he was one of them guys. He loved

459
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 3: to fight when he was at a couple of drinks. Anyway,

460
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 3: he was dry as a bone. And he came to

461
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: visit me and I couldn't wait for him to leave.

462
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: His energy was so bad. I was so uncomfortable around him.

463
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: He was like a time bomb. Yeah, you know, dry

464
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 3: as a bone. And he finally left after a few days,

465
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 3: and he went back and committed suicide. He was in

466
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 3: Chiswick Park and put in a car and he put

467
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 3: the old exhaust pipe into the thing and killed himself.

468
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 3: And you know, my point is is that it's so

469
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 3: different when you surrender, you know, it's so different when

470
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 3: you get to that point. I have no idea why

471
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 3: I'm one of the lucky ones that I'm still sober.

472
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 3: I have no idea because I don't really do anything

473
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 3: different than anyone else. I was definitely a lot more desperate.

474
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 3: It was tough at first, you know, changing and basically

475
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 3: starting from scratch. For me, like I said, I was illiterate.

476
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 3: I didn't know how to behave. It was all about me.

477
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 3: What can I get? It was all about doing something

478
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,959
Speaker 3: nice for someone because there's going to be something in it.

479
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 3: For me, I was so self absorbed and me, me, me,

480
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 3: me me, you know. And when that changed after many years,

481
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 3: it didn't just that when I walked in to the rooms,

482
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 3: and it was that process, that long process, and I'm

483
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: just so grateful. You know. I still go to about

484
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 3: four millions a week in person. Yeah, I just love it.

485
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 3: I love it, you know. I love being of service.

486
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 3: I don't like getting old. I will say that.

487
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: Steve Jones. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend

488
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the

489
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. After

490
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 1: the break, Steve Jones shares the meaning behind the title

491
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: of his memoir Lonely Boy. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're

492
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: listening to Here's the Thing. Steve Jones and the members

493
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: of the Sex Pistols embodied the nineteen seventies punk scene

494
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: in the United Kingdom. It also had them rubbing elbows

495
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: with other up and coming artists, designers and musicians like

496
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: Chrissy Hind of the Pretenders.

497
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: Chrissy she used to work in the shop that Malcolm

498
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: McLaren might Ivia Westwood shop, and I met her here

499
00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 3: and she was great, man, she was summing else, a

500
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 3: real badass, you know. And the band started. She used

501
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 3: to come to the shows. She wanted to be in

502
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: a band. I didn't take her seriously. She used to

503
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 3: stay with me sometimes we'd hang out. We had a

504
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: great time. And then she got a band together and

505
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 3: then sold more records than the sex Pistols, you know.

506
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 3: And a great songwriter, a great voice. I love Christy.

507
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: I see her all the time. She's in the series.

508
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 3: She's in the show. She can't when she saw it,

509
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 3: she's like, what I'm in this more than you guys.

510
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 3: What's going on? And I'm like, I know, I don't understand.

511
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it was the you know, the

512
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: political correct thing to have more women stuff, you know.

513
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: And the girl who played Chrissy was great, and man,

514
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 3: I got not a bad word to say for Christy.

515
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: I always see her when I go over there. But

516
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 3: the bottom line was I was incapable of relationships. All

517
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: I wanted to do was get laid with different people.

518
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 3: Once I got to know someone a little bit, the

519
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 3: old Hanson just wouldn't stand up, you know what I mean.

520
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: We're done, We're done. The thing about Chrissy that I

521
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: always remember is she had so much respect from people. People.

522
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: You know, Chrissy's interesting, and she's beautiful, and she's a

523
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: very exotic, you know, in her whole package. But people

524
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: really really admire her. And she's a great fucking musician.

525
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: I think she's really at the top of the heap,

526
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: you know.

527
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 3: She is. You know, it's weird about her. When she

528
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 3: started recording, she had the same producer who produced in

529
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 3: never Mind the Bollocks, Chris Thomas. She couldn't have anyone

530
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 3: in the studio when she was singing. She was so

531
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 3: insecure about her voice. She just couldn't do it. I mean,

532
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 3: she's all right now, but for a few years, a

533
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 3: few albums, she couldn't have anyone around when she was singing.

534
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: So, speaking of your your sexual appetite, of course, there's

535
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: no surprise to any of us that you end up

536
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: on California. Yeah, in your acting career now, when you

537
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: were on Californication. What did you play?

538
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 3: I played a tour manager.

539
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: And what happened on the show with you and Ducoveny.

540
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: Do you have scenes with Dukeveney?

541
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a few. I went on it and

542
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 3: it was I was only meant to do one episode,

543
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 3: and they liked me and I ended up doing two seasons.

544
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

545
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 3: I just said, I don't mind an accent. Just don't

546
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 3: give me a lot of lines. I'm terrible remember. I'm

547
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 3: terrible at remembering.

548
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: Your book is called Lonely Boy, and that's a very

549
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: powerful thing to say, because when you have that feeling

550
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: about your childhood, Why did you choose that title? Why?

551
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: Because I'm always alone even now, even now, even now,

552
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: even with thirty three years of sobriety, there's still that

553
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 3: part of me that just is always got that empty

554
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 3: feeling of being alone. I don't think that I don't

555
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 3: think that's ever going to go, you know. And I'm

556
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 3: not preferred, no, I mean, I've never had a relationship really,

557
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 3: you know. I'm hard work, man, I'm hard work to

558
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 3: be around sometimes, you know, especially with in a relationship.

559
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 3: I've tried it. I actually tried it last year for

560
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: about a year and it just it just fizzled out.

561
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 3: I just can't do it right, I just cannot do it.

562
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 3: I mean I'm damaged. Goods mate. It's not that I

563
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: don't want to, but I really don't have the choice

564
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 3: to have it or not. I just don't have the choice. Yeah,

565
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 3: I just am not. You know, various things happened when

566
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 3: I was a kid.

567
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: Have you been able to overcome back to some degree

568
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: or is it still as vivid in your mind from

569
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: time to time as it was back then what you

570
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: had to go through with your as a child, as

571
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: a boy.

572
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: No, I've definitely overcome it. I'm just left with there's

573
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 3: some things I think you just can't change. It don't

574
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 3: matter how much work you do on it, on something.

575
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 3: You know. He e molested me once, the stepfather. I

576
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 3: was like ten. He made me jerk him off, you know,

577
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: when my mom was in hospital. But that was enough

578
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 3: just to throw me off because I'm a sensitive I'm

579
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 3: a real sensitive and that was it. Coupled with that

580
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 3: and my mother not really being on the ball, not

581
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: a nurturing person, not protecting you, not protecting me. He

582
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 3: came before me. I was I was second fiddle. We

583
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 3: used to have a tin had therapy once, right, And

584
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 3: I'm in the therapy office and I'm trying to explain

585
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 3: to the therapist, And I was explaining it to her,

586
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 3: not for what was going on, but to explain how

587
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 3: poor he was. We used to have a tin bath

588
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: and we would fill it up with a kettle, right,

589
00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 3: and my mom would go first, then my stepdad, then

590
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 3: I would get in last. And the therapist says, it's

591
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,720
Speaker 3: funny that they put you in last and not first.

592
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 3: Most normal parents, loving parents.

593
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: With the children, who's cared for first?

594
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, child, And it hit me like a sound of bricks,

595
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 3: and I started crying my eyes out. It was like

596
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 3: a moment and I never even saw it. You know,

597
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: prior to that.

598
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: Well, whatever you've been through and whatever trouble you've had

599
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: to face and pain you've had to face. When that

600
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: guy you in that shower with the guitar, you play

601
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: songs and the tears are rolling down my face because

602
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: of your musical ability, in spite of everything you've had

603
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: happened to you, in spite of all the shit you've

604
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: had to put up with, in spite of what you

605
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: put yourself through as well, you get in there and

606
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: you play those songs and the beauty of your musicianship

607
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: and who you are in your soul as a result

608
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: of everything you went through. I'm telling you, it makes

609
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: me cry every time. Do you have no idea what

610
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: that means to be? Because you're so fucking talented and

611
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: you reach people that way, you reach them. The guy

612
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: in the shower is one of the greatest musicians ever.

613
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 3: Well, I was actually I was actually going to do

614
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 3: one today, a new one, some of them. I really

615
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 3: appreciate that. Ben. Honestly, you've almost got me to here

616
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 3: that because I don't think I'm a good musician.

617
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: You are a great You're a great musician.

618
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: Man.

619
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: People love you. They love your musicianship, your guitar playing,

620
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: your crazy youth and now people can watch you. You

621
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: think it's like a little amuse boosh, you're floating out

622
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: there to people. Let me tell you something, I look

623
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: forward to those. You're blessed. You're blessed from God. Don't

624
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: forget that. Okay, all right, mate? Thanks a lot, my

625
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: love to you, and thank you for doing this.

626
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 3: Thank you. I had fun.

627
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: My thanks to Steve Jones. If like me, you can't

628
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: get enough of Steve Jones singing in the shower. Visit

629
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: his Instagram page at Jonesy's Jukebox. That's at j O

630
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: n E s y S Jukebox. I'll Leave You with

631
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: No Feelings off of the nineteen seventy seven album never

632
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: Mind the Bollocks. Here's the sex Pistols. I'm Alec Baldwin.

633
00:37:27,280 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: Here's the thing is. Brought to you by iHeart Radio Jones. Hi,

634
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: I'm putty w I go free.

635
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 3: I Know, I Know, I