WEBVTT - '"SORRY, SHE DIED:" NANCY GUTHRIE RANSOM NOTES TO SNARE SUSPECTS 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:02.559 Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:08.360 Sorry she died. 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:16.320 Really, the Nancy Guthrie ransom notes could be the key 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:19.400 to snaring the suspects. 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:20.840 What do we know? 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.560 Tonight, good evening. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:37.000 I want to thank you for being with us. The 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:43.480 ransom notes are all oaks. Then why at the get 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:48.440 go was Savannah told they were legitimate? Betel says N's 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:53.120 Nano says Betel, Who can we trust? 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:54.600 Is this real? 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:58.160 I think anybody who reads them? My investigators, we look 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.520 at it and clearly there's things and there. They are 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:05.759 very concerning to our investigative team. So we hope that 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.560 by releasing the actual note we'll get some response from 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:11.160 the community. 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:12.600 Did the Guthrie tame? 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:13.480 We know you'd be right. 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:14.119 Absolutely. 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.320 I love when Nanas puts on his serious face. 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:24.680 Okay, he's just released two ransom notes, the ones that 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:30.200 were indicated to us by Savannah as being legitimate, But 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.679 then he goes on to suggest they're not legit, in 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.000 direct contradiction to what she has been obviously told by 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.360 the FBI. Now he releases the notes, but wait a minute. 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.720 What did he just say? What did he just say? 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.520 Listen, is Nancy Guthrie alive or? 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.000 Based on everything that you have right now? I haven't 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.760 seen the indications she's dead. I don't have a body. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.720 I don't have a burial site. I don't have any note. 0:01:57.760 --> 0:01:58.680 What don't you just say? 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:00.960 That's our friends at CBS. Play it one more time, 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:02.600 Control room, please, I gotta hear. 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.280 This is Nancy Guthrie alive or based on everything that 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:07.120 you have right now? 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:08.960 I am seeing the indicator she's dead. 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:13.000 I don't have a body, I don't have a burial site, 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:14.320 I don't have any note. 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:14.840 Okay. 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:21.320 Then he releases the ransom notes. Dave mac joining me 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:27.720 Crime Stories investigative reporter. Is it him or my lionears? 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.120 Did I just hear him say about twenty four hours 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.320 before he releases the ransom notes. 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:38.920 That say sorry, she's dead? 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:40.160 Did he just. 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.560 Say I don't have a body, I don't have a 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:45.120 burial site, I don't have a note. And then twenty 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.800 three hours bam, he releases the note saying she's dead. 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.240 He actually says, note, that's what kind of got me 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:54.160 more than anything, Nancy, is you know, to just offhandedly 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.600 say I don't have a body? Okay? Fine, but he 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.320 says note and then releases the very thing he says 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:04.839 he doesn't have where we have alleged kidnappers, saying, plea 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.640 didn't realize how bad she was. She's now in nature. 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.120 It is the most ridiculous, you know what. 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.519 And I have reason to believe Dave mac and I'm 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.720 going to an expert on this. 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:18.560 Lisa Miller is joining us. 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:25.880 I have reason to believe that the note was transcribed 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:30.079 into English. To me, it sounds like English is the 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.919 second language. But that's a whole other can of worms. 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.240 Let's see the ransom notes. Please put up the ransom 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:43.640 notes in chronological order, please quickly. Number one, Hello Savannah, 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:44.400 Yeah right there. 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:45.000 I don't like that. 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:49.040 That's a degree of some familiarity from a guy that 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.920 steals your eighty four year old mother in her pj's, 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:55.440 without shoes, without her glasses, without her hearing aids, without 0:03:55.440 --> 0:04:01.200 her watch, nothing, Hi, Savannah, really can't wait for doctor 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:01.920 Bethany to get. 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:02.200 A hold of that. 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:08.960 We have your mother. She's safe, but scared. She will 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.040 be held for ransom. Once payment is received, she will 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.760 be released unharmed. You need to send bitcoin in the 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.600 amount of four million dollars USD. 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:19.120 Another suggestion. 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.560 This is a foreign national who says to USD when 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.279 I go to the gas station, Nobody says, okay, that'll 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.640 be forty three dollars USD before five pm on the fifth. 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.279 Once payment is received to the bitgoing address, she will 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.320 be released within twelve hours to a safe drop off 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:44.159 location back in TUSNG. Let's see the rest chop. If 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.800 payment is not received by the last deadline, she will 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:51.280 be killed. Your mother is aware of this, and her 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.920 life is in your hands. Dot dot dot. That's interesting, 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:59.120 the dot dot who does that? She had a white 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:02.680 smart watch on the floor of the foot of her 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:09.400 bed and the white floodlight in backyard was destroyed. Let's 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:13.080 go now to the second note so we can compare 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.640 and contrast. Second note, this I believe came on the 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.640 sixth Guthrie family. 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:20.440 We did not. 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:24.359 Fully grasp the seriousness of her physical condition. Oh, laying 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.480 it on her as her fault. She's ill, it's her fault. 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.680 She's eighty four years old, it's her fault. We didn't 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:35.159 understand her problem. We never intended to hurt her. 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:40.200 Comma. That was not our intention. 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:47.240 That's called splicing, where you make a statement, and then 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.080 you comma, and then you make the statement again. That's 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.839 the stylistic issue that Lisa Miller is going to explain. 0:05:55.880 --> 0:06:02.480 In fact, I prosecuted a bank robbery based on comma use. 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:07.480 She perished shortly after she was taken. We believe it 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:11.440 was heart related. Oh thank you doctor. She is buried 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:16.240 in nature. Now who says that again? Translation, nothing you 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.039 could have done could have changed the outcome. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.039 We want nothing you could have done. 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:24.960 Well, how about something he could have done, like not 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.760 kidnap her to start with? We want your family to 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:36.039 know this and hope you can all find peace. Sorry, Oh, 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:43.000 I mean okay. Straight out to Lisa Miller, joining US 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:49.080 former detective, former chief investigator, Senior Executive Colorado the AG's 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:54.880 office at Lisa Miller c O. She initially thought two 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.360 people had written a ransom note, but after reading them 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:02.039 in full, she thinks they're written by one person. Maybe 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.440 I didn't think deeply enough, Lisa, but I always thought 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.159 they were both written by one person, and then after 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:13.200 that all the others. Eh No, I'm also the same 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.600 IP address. That's a big red flag. It's the same person. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.880 But I can't wait to hear your analysis tell me everything. 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:25.280 Well, initially, we kept hearing reports about the excerpts, and 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.600 it sounded like the second note was a massive shift 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.600 in tones and it definitely was different than what we're 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:36.320 seeing in the first. So that lended me from reporting 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.800 to think that maybe two even though it came from 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:43.120 the same ip. However, when we start taking a look 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.240 at the two notes together, and I think one of 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:49.160 the most definitive things that links these two notes are 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:54.840 these comma splices that you explained two sentences unnecessarily separated 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:58.360 by the comma. The second sentence in these two notes 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:03.480 is a reinforcing statement, so it's not necessary like we 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.640 never intended to hurt her. That was not our intention. 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.280 Why say both of those things, and it's repetitive. It 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.320 was not our intention. We did not intend to hurt her. 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.800 And then we're also seeing open compounds in both of 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:25.120 these statements. Most people when they write out smart watch, 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:29.600 it's smart watch one word, flood floodlight one word. If 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:34.640 they see heart related, they hyphenate heart related. But in 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:39.400 these notes, we're seeing these open compounds. These smart watch 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:44.800 two separate words, not together, heart related, no hyphen So 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:51.520 we're seeing these things they seem to leak stylistically, and 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:54.719 for that reason, I have to make a caveat here. 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.240 Though these are both short notes, so it's hard to 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.960 say definitively. You can't assign to Jenner. It's hard to 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.439 say to fenneratively that it's from one person. But based 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.360 on what we have, that's the best analysis. 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.440 Lisa didn't they both come from the same IP address. 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.240 That is my understanding from reporting. 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.840 Yes, I'm glad you said it that way, because you know, 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.520 I never know which end of Nano's things are coming 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.360 out of this end or the other one. I'm still stunned. 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.000 Day day one hundred, he goes, we don't have a note, 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:26.800 Day one hundred and. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:27.640 One, here's the note. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.920 Okay, All Star panel jumping in straight out to doctor 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.160 Bethany Marshall joining us. Renownces like COO Analyst out of 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.960 the LA jurisdiction. She's the author of deal Breaker in 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:45.319 the midst of her second book. She's seen on Peacock 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:49.360 on Hulu, on Bravo, and she's a star of a 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:53.760 new podcast on the Couch with Doctor Bethany Marshall. Doctor Bethany, 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.319 thank you for being with us. Okay, I know you're 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.480 gonna have a field day with this. Let's start. Let's 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:03.240 put a the first ransom note that has been released. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.720 The whole point of this tonight is will it help 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:12.920 us catch her killer? That's the issue. Oh hey, let 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:18.240 me see Lisa Miller, real quick, Lisa, Lisa, look at this. 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:20.800 I actually had it framed at the time. 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:25.120 This was used in front of a jury, my jury 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:30.400 in my first bank robbery case. Don't Comma touch Comma 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.600 the alram Comma alram dyslexi. 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:41.079 This is a roby. He also is a prolific user 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:42.880 of apostrophe marks. 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:49.120 When I tracked down a witness, not an eyewitness, but 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:54.800 a circumstantial witness that knew a little bit about what 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.960 the bank robber was wearing at the time of the 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.680 robbery stylistically, so I got a line on him. The 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:07.000 witness was, of course, in the Fulton County jail. I 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.480 had him submit to a handwriting analysis and got a 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:14.880 known handwriting and that use of Comma's turned the case. 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:20.000 It turned the case. So comma splicing, odd, use of 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:25.480 Comma's odd phraseology exactly what you're talking about. I wasn't 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.719 as schooled as you were, as you are but I 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.800 knew what I could see. Okay, sorry, doctor Bethany, but 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.880 I had to go get that to show it to Lisa. 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:37.480 Okay, Bethany hit it well. 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.040 Whoever wrote this note is obsessive because he or she 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:46.400 repeats the same phrases multiple times like hyperbole. It's interesting. 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:50.600 We have your mother, Nancy, she perished, She's in nature. 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:50.959 Now. 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.640 This person is trying to act sympathetic to form a 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:58.360 bond with Savannah. In a way, he or she is 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:02.680 trying to manipulate Savannah into believing them. It's a little 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.000 like the BTK killer when he defended himself in court. 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.360 He said about one of the victims, Hey, I'm a 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.679 nice guy. I comforted her before I strangled her, before 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.760 I put a pillow over her face. So this person 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:16.119 who wrote the note, Okay. 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:21.400 Wait, you're talking so fast, Bethany. This is not a 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:22.199 speed race. 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:27.240 Slow it down. Okay, what did you just say? 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:32.319 The BTK killer, in an attempt to persuade the jury 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.760 that he was not guilty, said I'm not a bad guy. 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.320 I comforted her before I killed her. The author of 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:45.079 this note is trying to get sympathy from Savannah, and 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.720 I think we have your mother, Nancy, she perished was 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.120 her heart, she's in nature. It sounds a little bit 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:57.520 like the sociopath manipulating the victim before they slashed their throats. 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:02.800 It's a highly manipulative note. The first note asks for money, 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.920 the second says, oh, never mind, she perished. That tells 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.679 me that by the time the author gets to the 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.240 second note, they're more worried about breeding being brought up 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.959 on homicide murder charges than the four million that they 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.680 wanted originally. I do have an image of a wife 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.520 or girlfriend standing over the author's note saying, oh, add this, 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.319 add that, as if one is not enough, got to 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.520 say it again and again. I do believe the author 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.839 is obsessive, that they took a long time to write 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:41.040 this note. The author is not is an ex patriot 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:45.679 because of the USD and they take the almost like 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.520 a European might say they were in hospital, not they 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.880 were in the hospital. So I noticed that as well, 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:59.120 and I think, finally you know the fact that there's 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:03.480 these shifts and turns throughout the notes. You know, when 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.640 I wrote my doctoral dissertation, I was told to consult 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.360 with everybody in the department, about thirty people by the 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.400 time I defended my dissertation, the committee said, sounds like 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.640 it was written by thirty people. I'm like, yeah, I 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.320 consulted with thirty people. It sounds like this guy or 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:26.240 gal handed the note around, deliberated, thought a lot about it. 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:31.240 But again, primarily it's the manipulative tone. So if you, 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:36.720 whoever's listening, has somebody in your household who over talks 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:44.400 is manipulative, grandiose, uses hyperbole, a lot of verrbal borishes, 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.760 you should think very carefully about where that person was. 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.440 Nancy Gotthrie went missing. 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:57.200 Okay, back to you, Lisa Miller, who has done an 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.320 incredible analysis of this note. What do you make of 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.840 what Bethany just said? And our whole purpose tonight is 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:08.240 to try to use these notes to identify the killer 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:13.600 and he will be charged with felony murder even if 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.480 his fantastical claim is true that Missus Guthny died of 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:22.040 natural causes. Whenever a death occurs during the commission of 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:29.480 a felony equals felony murder, which is murder one which 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.880 does get the death penalty. It doesn't matter if you 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.480 didn't intend for the person to die. If they die 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.600 in the commission of a felony that would be kidnapped 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:45.000 or burglary. That's a felony murder punishable by the death penalty. 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.240 Now you heard what doctor Bethany said. Now I have 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.920 great respect for doctor Bethany a clairvoriant. I don't know that, 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:57.240 but her image she says of a girlfriend's standing over 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.320 the writer's shoulder is. 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:04.800 Not are fetched. That said, What do you make of it? 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.840 You know, I have much respect for everything that was said. 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.680 From an investigative standpoint, I look at the second note 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.880 kind of like I looked at the offender across the 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.840 table from me back when I was doing interviews of 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.200 murderers or even the worst offenders that did some of 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:26.760 the worst crimes against children. They always minimize their involvement. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.160 They turn it the second note is a passive thing. 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:37.920 Nancy perished, Nancy didn't perish. You did something horrible by 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.600 taking a vulnerable elderly woman out of the house, and 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:46.680 you caused this. But that's how they choose to disk themselves. 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.960 It's very common against that we hear the worst criminals 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.000 do this. They take a passive role. It's always someone 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:58.080 else's fault. It's definitely not their fault. And then I'm 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.400 taking a look at like the phrase of perished and 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.919 buried in nature odd statements, right, we have to evaluate 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:11.600 could that be translation artifact from the translation tool or 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:17.000 is it possibly ideolect something from where this individual has 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.360 We all have this here in the States. We most 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.720 of us speak English. We have different parts of the state, 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.880 We have different slang that we use. That's our ideolect. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:33.000 It's individual to us. So perhaps this person the buried 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:37.199 in nature the perish is their own ideolect. And so 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.840 what people should be looking for at this point in 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:44.879 time is looking at whether actually asked to watch behavioral 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:50.480 changes post offense. Think about who writes like the dates 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.080 the dates that were written in the notes, Who writes 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:57.280 their dates out like that? Who maybe uses perish every 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.479 now and then? Who have you heard that uses buried 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:01.000 in nature? 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.400 Crime stores? With Nancy Grace. 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.880 On behalf of our family, we want to thank all 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:21.240 of you for the prayers for our beloved mom. Nancy. 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:27.160 We feel them and we continue to believe that she 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:35.600 feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:44.240 fiercely loving woman of goodness and liked. She's funny, spunky, 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:50.159 and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.160 around her and cover her with kisses. 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.600 She loves fun and adventure. 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:02.200 She is a devoted friend, full of kindness and knowledge. 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:04.560 Talk to her and you'll. 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:09.320 See the light is missing from our lives. 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:17.840 Nancy is our mother. We are her children. She is 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:18.520 our beacon. 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:26.080 She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances. 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:32.280 She chooses joy day after day, despite having already passed 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:38.720 through great trials of pain and grief. We are always 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:44.640 going to be merely human, just normal human people who 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:54.560 need our mom. Mama, Mama, if you're listening, we need 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:55.399 you to come home. 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.919 That was a portion of one of Savannah Guthrie's first 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.560 please to bring her mother home. That is before she 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.560 got the second note stating that missus Guthrie is dead, 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:11.080 and she had to put on a brave face and 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.120 go back into the anchorchaeir in front of millions of people, 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:20.439 knowing the very distinct possibility her mother is dead straight 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.920 out to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.000 He is the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:32.000 He is a star of a hit series Body bags 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.520 with Joe Scott Morgan. But most important, he is a 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:39.679 death investigator with over ten thousand death scenes under his belt. 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.200 When I say professor of forensics, that doesn't just include 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:50.120 as a death investigator. He investigates the scene. How are 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:54.920 these notes going to help us? And I haven't even 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.760 gotten into all of Nanos's screw ups that are now 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:04.160 coming to light. Let me just direct your attention very quickly, 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.560 Joe Scott Morgan to other missives that have resulted in 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:12.960 a bust. That would be obviously Theodore Kazinski, the unibomber. 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:19.440 He had a thirty five thousand word manifesto. 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:24.119 Nut job here, we've only got about two hundred and 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.760 eighty four words. That's a good question, not only for you, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.320 but for Lisa as well. What can we do with 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.919 those two hundred and eighty four words. Then there are 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.240 others You've got Israel Keys who sent a ransom note 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.600 including a photograph Joe Scott Morgan, as you and I 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:45.359 discussed in the past, of the victim dead, and he 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:50.760 had heavily made her up and sewn her eyes open 0:21:52.800 --> 0:22:01.600 and blurried the photo so the victim FA remember her. 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:08.320 The young barista Samantha Koenig blurred the photos so her 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:10.600 father could not tell whether she was dead or alive, 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.640 and then sent a ransom note he was caught. Then 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:20.760 you've got other Oh yeah, btk, he sent written taunts 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:24.560 buying torture, killed Dennis Raider. Oh there's his ugly face. 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:30.040 He's still alive, amazingly. Then let's see, there's so many more. 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:34.399 You've got Zodiac who taunted with written notes, never identified. 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.960 That's helpful, right there. I can't tell a thing about him. 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.520 And there are others. Oh yes, son of Sam Berkowitz 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:50.520 caught written missives. Okay, look at him? Ugh, okay, Joe 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.720 Scott forensically, what can I do with this? What can 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:57.080 you add, Joe Scott that Lisa hasn't already told us? 0:22:57.119 --> 0:22:57.840 Speak now? 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:01.000 Yeah, I think the thing that really reaches out to 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:04.320 me is that where they say we didn't intend to 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:09.720 hurt her, and they talk about this intention again, and 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:12.560 for me, that goes to the idea that they did 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:15.200 in fact hurt her. And guess what, we've got evidence 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:18.000 of that evidence that, by the way, and I'll say 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:23.359 it plainly, that was ignored to their own peril. Now, 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:26.320 and that is that blood deposition that we had on 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:30.719 that front porch that they seemingly walked over, ignored whatever 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:33.080 the hell they were doing at that moment in time, 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:36.159 and they didn't see the import in this. And so 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:40.160 for me, these two things are connected. I you know, 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:43.399 it's it's very easy to sit here and say, yeah, 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:46.639 she was infirmed, and you know she had physical problems. 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:50.000 I've got I've got a lot more questions relative to 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:53.359 this because they're the ones that bring up the term hurt. 0:23:54.000 --> 0:23:56.560 They're the ones that say this, and we have evidence 0:23:56.600 --> 0:24:00.400 of violence here as far as I'm concerned, that's position 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.760 of blood that has originated from the Naso FARNICKX area. 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:07.000 I am of the opinion that they pop this poor 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:10.320 lady in the face to try to get her to comply, 0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:14.600 and she bled right there. I'm not saying she bled out, 0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:18.240 but they started her down this road. I don't give 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:21.480 two hoots in hell what your intention was. She wound 0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:26.440 up dying in your custody, illegal custody by the way, 0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:31.920 this is a kidnapping. Obviously you are held directly responsible 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:35.879 for this. So these people are violent, they are very violent, 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:38.919 and now they're wanting to go back on this I 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:41.359 think that they just by virtue of that second note, 0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:44.080 they know that there is a chance they're going to 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:46.399 have to pay a heavy price for this. Now if 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:50.320 they can get their wires straight relative to the investigative 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:53.760 team and get marshalled on the line to head in 0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:57.280 the right direction investigatively, hopefully it's not too late. I 0:24:57.320 --> 0:24:59.680 think that there's still a chance that they can find 0:24:59.680 --> 0:25:01.720 out who whoever it is that did this, because look, 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:06.040 as far as I'm concerned, these people are crazy. They're 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:08.560 still out there and they can do harm to other people. 0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:18.400 For Crime Stores with Nancy Gray. 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:24.560 Morgan Wright and Joining a cybersecurity expert former detective, he 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:29.280 has actually trained the FBI KRT team on Internet investigations. 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:32.439 He is the founder and the CEO of the National 0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:37.439 Center for Open and Unsolved Cases. Also, he's editor and 0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:40.800 host the Star of Crime Reconstructed. 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:43.440 Morgan, thank you for being with us, jump in. 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:46.359 I'm going to be I'm going to go a different 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:48.840 tact on a lot of this stuff. A lot of 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:51.119 my training also comes out of the intelligence community. I 0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:55.800 trained members the damage assessment people at NSACIA FBI. I'm 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:57.480 looking at a lot of this stuff and I'm saying 0:25:57.480 --> 0:26:00.959 we're making a lot of assumptions, and these assumptions are 0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:02.880 not yet grounded in fact. So I take a look 0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:05.359 at even the ransom communications, and my first thought is 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:09.240 Earl Edwin Pitts, FBI agent rested under a false flag 0:26:09.640 --> 0:26:11.840 operation by the FBI. Once the wall came down, we 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:14.960 started seeing this information. I look at these communications. There's 0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:16.760 not enough material in there. 0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:17.000 To do it. 0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:20.119 Like in the unibomber case. By the way, some of 0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:21.960 the folks you know, like Mary All and O'Toole worked 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:24.639