Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2: Sorry she died.
Speaker 3: Really, the Nancy Guthrie ransom notes could be the key
Speaker 3: to snaring the suspects.
Speaker 1: What do we know?
Speaker 3: Tonight, good evening. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
Speaker 3: I want to thank you for being with us. The
Speaker 3: ransom notes are all oaks. Then why at the get
Speaker 3: go was Savannah told they were legitimate? Betel says N's
Speaker 3: Nano says Betel, Who can we trust?
Speaker 1: Is this real?
Speaker 4: I think anybody who reads them? My investigators, we look
Speaker 4: at it and clearly there's things and there. They are
Speaker 4: very concerning to our investigative team. So we hope that
Speaker 4: by releasing the actual note we'll get some response from
Speaker 4: the community.
Speaker 5: Did the Guthrie tame?
Speaker 6: We know you'd be right.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: I love when Nanas puts on his serious face.
Speaker 3: Okay, he's just released two ransom notes, the ones that
Speaker 3: were indicated to us by Savannah as being legitimate, But
Speaker 3: then he goes on to suggest they're not legit, in
Speaker 3: direct contradiction to what she has been obviously told by
Speaker 3: the FBI. Now he releases the notes, but wait a minute.
Speaker 2: What did he just say? What did he just say?
Speaker 1: Listen, is Nancy Guthrie alive or?
Speaker 7: Based on everything that you have right now? I haven't
Speaker 7: seen the indications she's dead. I don't have a body.
Speaker 7: I don't have a burial site. I don't have any note.
Speaker 2: What don't you just say?
Speaker 3: That's our friends at CBS. Play it one more time,
Speaker 3: Control room, please, I gotta hear.
Speaker 7: This is Nancy Guthrie alive or based on everything that
Speaker 7: you have right now?
Speaker 4: I am seeing the indicator she's dead.
Speaker 7: I don't have a body, I don't have a burial site,
Speaker 7: I don't have any note.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: Then he releases the ransom notes. Dave mac joining me
Speaker 3: Crime Stories investigative reporter. Is it him or my lionears?
Speaker 3: Did I just hear him say about twenty four hours
Speaker 3: before he releases the ransom notes.
Speaker 2: That say sorry, she's dead?
Speaker 1: Did he just.
Speaker 3: Say I don't have a body, I don't have a
Speaker 3: burial site, I don't have a note. And then twenty
Speaker 3: three hours bam, he releases the note saying she's dead.
Speaker 8: He actually says, note, that's what kind of got me
Speaker 8: more than anything, Nancy, is you know, to just offhandedly
Speaker 8: say I don't have a body? Okay? Fine, but he
Speaker 8: says note and then releases the very thing he says
Speaker 8: he doesn't have where we have alleged kidnappers, saying, plea
Speaker 8: didn't realize how bad she was. She's now in nature.
Speaker 8: It is the most ridiculous, you know what.
Speaker 3: And I have reason to believe Dave mac and I'm
Speaker 3: going to an expert on this.
Speaker 2: Lisa Miller is joining us.
Speaker 3: I have reason to believe that the note was transcribed
Speaker 3: into English. To me, it sounds like English is the
Speaker 3: second language. But that's a whole other can of worms.
Speaker 3: Let's see the ransom notes. Please put up the ransom
Speaker 3: notes in chronological order, please quickly. Number one, Hello Savannah,
Speaker 3: Yeah right there.
Speaker 2: I don't like that.
Speaker 3: That's a degree of some familiarity from a guy that
Speaker 3: steals your eighty four year old mother in her pj's,
Speaker 3: without shoes, without her glasses, without her hearing aids, without
Speaker 3: her watch, nothing, Hi, Savannah, really can't wait for doctor
Speaker 3: Bethany to get.
Speaker 2: A hold of that.
Speaker 3: We have your mother. She's safe, but scared. She will
Speaker 3: be held for ransom. Once payment is received, she will
Speaker 3: be released unharmed. You need to send bitcoin in the
Speaker 3: amount of four million dollars USD.
Speaker 2: Another suggestion.
Speaker 3: This is a foreign national who says to USD when
Speaker 3: I go to the gas station, Nobody says, okay, that'll
Speaker 3: be forty three dollars USD before five pm on the fifth.
Speaker 3: Once payment is received to the bitgoing address, she will
Speaker 3: be released within twelve hours to a safe drop off
Speaker 3: location back in TUSNG. Let's see the rest chop. If
Speaker 3: payment is not received by the last deadline, she will
Speaker 3: be killed. Your mother is aware of this, and her
Speaker 3: life is in your hands. Dot dot dot. That's interesting,
Speaker 3: the dot dot who does that? She had a white
Speaker 3: smart watch on the floor of the foot of her
Speaker 3: bed and the white floodlight in backyard was destroyed. Let's
Speaker 3: go now to the second note so we can compare
Speaker 3: and contrast. Second note, this I believe came on the
Speaker 3: sixth Guthrie family.
Speaker 2: We did not.
Speaker 3: Fully grasp the seriousness of her physical condition. Oh, laying
Speaker 3: it on her as her fault. She's ill, it's her fault.
Speaker 3: She's eighty four years old, it's her fault. We didn't
Speaker 3: understand her problem. We never intended to hurt her.
Speaker 2: Comma. That was not our intention.
Speaker 3: That's called splicing, where you make a statement, and then
Speaker 3: you comma, and then you make the statement again. That's
Speaker 3: the stylistic issue that Lisa Miller is going to explain.
Speaker 3: In fact, I prosecuted a bank robbery based on comma use.
Speaker 3: She perished shortly after she was taken. We believe it
Speaker 3: was heart related. Oh thank you doctor. She is buried
Speaker 3: in nature. Now who says that again? Translation, nothing you
Speaker 3: could have done could have changed the outcome.
Speaker 2: We want nothing you could have done.
Speaker 3: Well, how about something he could have done, like not
Speaker 3: kidnap her to start with? We want your family to
Speaker 3: know this and hope you can all find peace. Sorry, Oh,
Speaker 3: I mean okay. Straight out to Lisa Miller, joining US
Speaker 3: former detective, former chief investigator, Senior Executive Colorado the AG's
Speaker 3: office at Lisa Miller c O. She initially thought two
Speaker 3: people had written a ransom note, but after reading them
Speaker 3: in full, she thinks they're written by one person. Maybe
Speaker 3: I didn't think deeply enough, Lisa, but I always thought
Speaker 3: they were both written by one person, and then after
Speaker 3: that all the others. Eh No, I'm also the same
Speaker 3: IP address. That's a big red flag. It's the same person.
Speaker 3: But I can't wait to hear your analysis tell me everything.
Speaker 5: Well, initially, we kept hearing reports about the excerpts, and
Speaker 5: it sounded like the second note was a massive shift
Speaker 5: in tones and it definitely was different than what we're
Speaker 5: seeing in the first. So that lended me from reporting
Speaker 5: to think that maybe two even though it came from
Speaker 5: the same ip. However, when we start taking a look
Speaker 5: at the two notes together, and I think one of
Speaker 5: the most definitive things that links these two notes are
Speaker 5: these comma splices that you explained two sentences unnecessarily separated
Speaker 5: by the comma. The second sentence in these two notes
Speaker 5: is a reinforcing statement, so it's not necessary like we
Speaker 5: never intended to hurt her. That was not our intention.
Speaker 5: Why say both of those things, and it's repetitive. It
Speaker 5: was not our intention. We did not intend to hurt her.
Speaker 5: And then we're also seeing open compounds in both of
Speaker 5: these statements. Most people when they write out smart watch,
Speaker 5: it's smart watch one word, flood floodlight one word. If
Speaker 5: they see heart related, they hyphenate heart related. But in
Speaker 5: these notes, we're seeing these open compounds. These smart watch
Speaker 5: two separate words, not together, heart related, no hyphen So
Speaker 5: we're seeing these things they seem to leak stylistically, and
Speaker 5: for that reason, I have to make a caveat here.
Speaker 5: Though these are both short notes, so it's hard to
Speaker 5: say definitively. You can't assign to Jenner. It's hard to
Speaker 5: say to fenneratively that it's from one person. But based
Speaker 5: on what we have, that's the best analysis.
Speaker 2: Lisa didn't they both come from the same IP address.
Speaker 5: That is my understanding from reporting.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm glad you said it that way, because you know,
Speaker 3: I never know which end of Nano's things are coming
Speaker 3: out of this end or the other one. I'm still stunned.
Speaker 3: Day day one hundred, he goes, we don't have a note,
Speaker 3: Day one hundred and.
Speaker 2: One, here's the note.
Speaker 3: Okay, All Star panel jumping in straight out to doctor
Speaker 3: Bethany Marshall joining us. Renownces like COO Analyst out of
Speaker 3: the LA jurisdiction. She's the author of deal Breaker in
Speaker 3: the midst of her second book. She's seen on Peacock
Speaker 3: on Hulu, on Bravo, and she's a star of a
Speaker 3: new podcast on the Couch with Doctor Bethany Marshall. Doctor Bethany,
Speaker 3: thank you for being with us. Okay, I know you're
Speaker 3: gonna have a field day with this. Let's start. Let's
Speaker 3: put a the first ransom note that has been released.
Speaker 3: The whole point of this tonight is will it help
Speaker 3: us catch her killer? That's the issue. Oh hey, let
Speaker 3: me see Lisa Miller, real quick, Lisa, Lisa, look at this.
Speaker 2: I actually had it framed at the time.
Speaker 3: This was used in front of a jury, my jury
Speaker 3: in my first bank robbery case. Don't Comma touch Comma
Speaker 3: the alram Comma alram dyslexi.
Speaker 2: This is a roby. He also is a prolific user
Speaker 2: of apostrophe marks.
Speaker 3: When I tracked down a witness, not an eyewitness, but
Speaker 3: a circumstantial witness that knew a little bit about what
Speaker 3: the bank robber was wearing at the time of the
Speaker 3: robbery stylistically, so I got a line on him. The
Speaker 3: witness was, of course, in the Fulton County jail. I
Speaker 3: had him submit to a handwriting analysis and got a
Speaker 3: known handwriting and that use of Comma's turned the case.
Speaker 3: It turned the case. So comma splicing, odd, use of
Speaker 3: Comma's odd phraseology exactly what you're talking about. I wasn't
Speaker 3: as schooled as you were, as you are but I
Speaker 3: knew what I could see. Okay, sorry, doctor Bethany, but
Speaker 3: I had to go get that to show it to Lisa.
Speaker 2: Okay, Bethany hit it well.
Speaker 9: Whoever wrote this note is obsessive because he or she
Speaker 9: repeats the same phrases multiple times like hyperbole. It's interesting.
Speaker 9: We have your mother, Nancy, she perished, She's in nature.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 9: This person is trying to act sympathetic to form a
Speaker 9: bond with Savannah. In a way, he or she is
Speaker 9: trying to manipulate Savannah into believing them. It's a little
Speaker 9: like the BTK killer when he defended himself in court.
Speaker 9: He said about one of the victims, Hey, I'm a
Speaker 9: nice guy. I comforted her before I strangled her, before
Speaker 9: I put a pillow over her face. So this person
Speaker 9: who wrote the note, Okay.
Speaker 3: Wait, you're talking so fast, Bethany. This is not a
Speaker 3: speed race.
Speaker 2: Slow it down. Okay, what did you just say?
Speaker 9: The BTK killer, in an attempt to persuade the jury
Speaker 9: that he was not guilty, said I'm not a bad guy.
Speaker 9: I comforted her before I killed her. The author of
Speaker 9: this note is trying to get sympathy from Savannah, and
Speaker 9: I think we have your mother, Nancy, she perished was
Speaker 9: her heart, she's in nature. It sounds a little bit
Speaker 9: like the sociopath manipulating the victim before they slashed their throats.
Speaker 9: It's a highly manipulative note. The first note asks for money,
Speaker 9: the second says, oh, never mind, she perished. That tells
Speaker 9: me that by the time the author gets to the
Speaker 9: second note, they're more worried about breeding being brought up
Speaker 9: on homicide murder charges than the four million that they
Speaker 9: wanted originally. I do have an image of a wife
Speaker 9: or girlfriend standing over the author's note saying, oh, add this,
Speaker 9: add that, as if one is not enough, got to
Speaker 9: say it again and again. I do believe the author
Speaker 9: is obsessive, that they took a long time to write
Speaker 9: this note. The author is not is an ex patriot
Speaker 9: because of the USD and they take the almost like
Speaker 9: a European might say they were in hospital, not they
Speaker 9: were in the hospital. So I noticed that as well,
Speaker 9: and I think, finally you know the fact that there's
Speaker 9: these shifts and turns throughout the notes. You know, when
Speaker 9: I wrote my doctoral dissertation, I was told to consult
Speaker 9: with everybody in the department, about thirty people by the
Speaker 9: time I defended my dissertation, the committee said, sounds like
Speaker 9: it was written by thirty people. I'm like, yeah, I
Speaker 9: consulted with thirty people. It sounds like this guy or
Speaker 9: gal handed the note around, deliberated, thought a lot about it.
Speaker 9: But again, primarily it's the manipulative tone. So if you,
Speaker 9: whoever's listening, has somebody in your household who over talks
Speaker 9: is manipulative, grandiose, uses hyperbole, a lot of verrbal borishes,
Speaker 9: you should think very carefully about where that person was.
Speaker 9: Nancy Gotthrie went missing.
Speaker 3: Okay, back to you, Lisa Miller, who has done an
Speaker 3: incredible analysis of this note. What do you make of
Speaker 3: what Bethany just said? And our whole purpose tonight is
Speaker 3: to try to use these notes to identify the killer
Speaker 3: and he will be charged with felony murder even if
Speaker 3: his fantastical claim is true that Missus Guthny died of
Speaker 3: natural causes. Whenever a death occurs during the commission of
Speaker 3: a felony equals felony murder, which is murder one which
Speaker 3: does get the death penalty. It doesn't matter if you
Speaker 3: didn't intend for the person to die. If they die
Speaker 3: in the commission of a felony that would be kidnapped
Speaker 3: or burglary. That's a felony murder punishable by the death penalty.
Speaker 3: Now you heard what doctor Bethany said. Now I have
Speaker 3: great respect for doctor Bethany a clairvoriant. I don't know that,
Speaker 3: but her image she says of a girlfriend's standing over
Speaker 3: the writer's shoulder is.
Speaker 2: Not are fetched. That said, What do you make of it?
Speaker 5: You know, I have much respect for everything that was said.
Speaker 5: From an investigative standpoint, I look at the second note
Speaker 5: kind of like I looked at the offender across the
Speaker 5: table from me back when I was doing interviews of
Speaker 5: murderers or even the worst offenders that did some of
Speaker 5: the worst crimes against children. They always minimize their involvement.
Speaker 5: They turn it the second note is a passive thing.
Speaker 5: Nancy perished, Nancy didn't perish. You did something horrible by
Speaker 5: taking a vulnerable elderly woman out of the house, and
Speaker 5: you caused this. But that's how they choose to disk themselves.
Speaker 5: It's very common against that we hear the worst criminals
Speaker 5: do this. They take a passive role. It's always someone
Speaker 5: else's fault. It's definitely not their fault. And then I'm
Speaker 5: taking a look at like the phrase of perished and
Speaker 5: buried in nature odd statements, right, we have to evaluate
Speaker 5: could that be translation artifact from the translation tool or
Speaker 5: is it possibly ideolect something from where this individual has
Speaker 5: We all have this here in the States. We most
Speaker 5: of us speak English. We have different parts of the state,
Speaker 5: We have different slang that we use. That's our ideolect.
Speaker 5: It's individual to us. So perhaps this person the buried
Speaker 5: in nature the perish is their own ideolect. And so
Speaker 5: what people should be looking for at this point in
Speaker 5: time is looking at whether actually asked to watch behavioral
Speaker 5: changes post offense. Think about who writes like the dates
Speaker 5: the dates that were written in the notes, Who writes
Speaker 5: their dates out like that? Who maybe uses perish every
Speaker 5: now and then? Who have you heard that uses buried
Speaker 5: in nature?
Speaker 1: Crime stores? With Nancy Grace.
Speaker 6: On behalf of our family, we want to thank all
Speaker 6: of you for the prayers for our beloved mom. Nancy.
Speaker 6: We feel them and we continue to believe that she
Speaker 6: feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal,
Speaker 6: fiercely loving woman of goodness and liked. She's funny, spunky,
Speaker 6: and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd
Speaker 6: around her and cover her with kisses.
Speaker 5: She loves fun and adventure.
Speaker 6: She is a devoted friend, full of kindness and knowledge.
Speaker 5: Talk to her and you'll.
Speaker 6: See the light is missing from our lives.
Speaker 5: Nancy is our mother. We are her children. She is
Speaker 5: our beacon.
Speaker 6: She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances.
Speaker 6: She chooses joy day after day, despite having already passed
Speaker 6: through great trials of pain and grief. We are always
Speaker 6: going to be merely human, just normal human people who
Speaker 6: need our mom. Mama, Mama, if you're listening, we need
Speaker 6: you to come home.
Speaker 3: That was a portion of one of Savannah Guthrie's first
Speaker 3: please to bring her mother home. That is before she
Speaker 3: got the second note stating that missus Guthrie is dead,
Speaker 3: and she had to put on a brave face and
Speaker 3: go back into the anchorchaeir in front of millions of people,
Speaker 3: knowing the very distinct possibility her mother is dead straight
Speaker 3: out to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University.
Speaker 3: He is the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
Speaker 3: He is a star of a hit series Body bags
Speaker 3: with Joe Scott Morgan. But most important, he is a
Speaker 3: death investigator with over ten thousand death scenes under his belt.
Speaker 3: When I say professor of forensics, that doesn't just include
Speaker 3: as a death investigator. He investigates the scene. How are
Speaker 3: these notes going to help us? And I haven't even
Speaker 3: gotten into all of Nanos's screw ups that are now
Speaker 3: coming to light. Let me just direct your attention very quickly,
Speaker 3: Joe Scott Morgan to other missives that have resulted in
Speaker 3: a bust. That would be obviously Theodore Kazinski, the unibomber.
Speaker 2: He had a thirty five thousand word manifesto.
Speaker 3: Nut job here, we've only got about two hundred and
Speaker 3: eighty four words. That's a good question, not only for you,
Speaker 3: but for Lisa as well. What can we do with
Speaker 3: those two hundred and eighty four words. Then there are
Speaker 3: others You've got Israel Keys who sent a ransom note
Speaker 3: including a photograph Joe Scott Morgan, as you and I
Speaker 3: discussed in the past, of the victim dead, and he
Speaker 3: had heavily made her up and sewn her eyes open
Speaker 3: and blurried the photo so the victim FA remember her.
Speaker 3: The young barista Samantha Koenig blurred the photos so her
Speaker 3: father could not tell whether she was dead or alive,
Speaker 3: and then sent a ransom note he was caught. Then
Speaker 3: you've got other Oh yeah, btk, he sent written taunts
Speaker 3: buying torture, killed Dennis Raider. Oh there's his ugly face.
Speaker 3: He's still alive, amazingly. Then let's see, there's so many more.
Speaker 3: You've got Zodiac who taunted with written notes, never identified.
Speaker 3: That's helpful, right there. I can't tell a thing about him.
Speaker 3: And there are others. Oh yes, son of Sam Berkowitz
Speaker 3: caught written missives. Okay, look at him? Ugh, okay, Joe
Speaker 3: Scott forensically, what can I do with this? What can
Speaker 3: you add, Joe Scott that Lisa hasn't already told us?
Speaker 2: Speak now?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think the thing that really reaches out to
Speaker 10: me is that where they say we didn't intend to
Speaker 10: hurt her, and they talk about this intention again, and
Speaker 10: for me, that goes to the idea that they did
Speaker 10: in fact hurt her. And guess what, we've got evidence
Speaker 10: of that evidence that, by the way, and I'll say
Speaker 10: it plainly, that was ignored to their own peril. Now,
Speaker 10: and that is that blood deposition that we had on
Speaker 10: that front porch that they seemingly walked over, ignored whatever
Speaker 10: the hell they were doing at that moment in time,
Speaker 10: and they didn't see the import in this. And so
Speaker 10: for me, these two things are connected. I you know,
Speaker 10: it's it's very easy to sit here and say, yeah,
Speaker 10: she was infirmed, and you know she had physical problems.
Speaker 10: I've got I've got a lot more questions relative to
Speaker 10: this because they're the ones that bring up the term hurt.
Speaker 10: They're the ones that say this, and we have evidence
Speaker 10: of violence here as far as I'm concerned, that's position
Speaker 10: of blood that has originated from the Naso FARNICKX area.
Speaker 10: I am of the opinion that they pop this poor
Speaker 10: lady in the face to try to get her to comply,
Speaker 10: and she bled right there. I'm not saying she bled out,
Speaker 10: but they started her down this road. I don't give
Speaker 10: two hoots in hell what your intention was. She wound
Speaker 10: up dying in your custody, illegal custody by the way,
Speaker 10: this is a kidnapping. Obviously you are held directly responsible
Speaker 10: for this. So these people are violent, they are very violent,
Speaker 10: and now they're wanting to go back on this I
Speaker 10: think that they just by virtue of that second note,
Speaker 10: they know that there is a chance they're going to
Speaker 10: have to pay a heavy price for this. Now if
Speaker 10: they can get their wires straight relative to the investigative
Speaker 10: team and get marshalled on the line to head in
Speaker 10: the right direction investigatively, hopefully it's not too late. I
Speaker 10: think that there's still a chance that they can find
Speaker 10: out who whoever it is that did this, because look,
Speaker 10: as far as I'm concerned, these people are crazy. They're
Speaker 10: still out there and they can do harm to other people.
Speaker 1: For Crime Stores with Nancy Gray.
Speaker 3: Morgan Wright and Joining a cybersecurity expert former detective, he
Speaker 3: has actually trained the FBI KRT team on Internet investigations.
Speaker 3: He is the founder and the CEO of the National
Speaker 3: Center for Open and Unsolved Cases. Also, he's editor and
Speaker 3: host the Star of Crime Reconstructed.
Speaker 2: Morgan, thank you for being with us, jump in.
Speaker 11: I'm going to be I'm going to go a different
Speaker 11: tact on a lot of this stuff. A lot of
Speaker 11: my training also comes out of the intelligence community. I
Speaker 11: trained members the damage assessment people at NSACIA FBI. I'm
Speaker 11: looking at a lot of this stuff and I'm saying
Speaker 11: we're making a lot of assumptions, and these assumptions are
Speaker 11: not yet grounded in fact. So I take a look
Speaker 11: at even the ransom communications, and my first thought is
Speaker 11: Earl Edwin Pitts, FBI agent rested under a false flag
Speaker 11: operation by the FBI. Once the wall came down, we
Speaker 11: started seeing this information. I look at these communications. There's
Speaker 11: not enough material in there.
Speaker 5: To do it.
Speaker 11: Like in the unibomber case. By the way, some of
Speaker 11: the folks you know, like Mary All and O'Toole worked
Speaker 11: with a friend of mine, doctor William Floyd Tafoya, to
Speaker 11: revise the profile of the unibomber. What they originally thought
Speaker 11: was not it. It was a ludeye in his fifties,
Speaker 11: very technically advanced. So that was Kazinski. So I take
Speaker 11: a look and I say, all, there are alternative views
Speaker 11: of this information that we could have, especially the ransom note.
Speaker 11: So real quickly, here is somebody who is sophisticated enough
Speaker 11: to establish bitcoin. They use the bitcoin address in addition
Speaker 11: to the IP address. The one thing we know is
Speaker 11: the bitcoin address was put in both emails. So the
Speaker 11: ability to do that shows it's that right. There is documentation,
Speaker 11: it's the same thing with BTK, same thing with zodiac.
Speaker 11: You put items in there to document that you are
Speaker 11: who you say you are. Second thing is that this
Speaker 11: person these notes, the originator of these notes, has so
Speaker 11: far eluded identification by the FBI and Nancy. As you
Speaker 11: were saying, I mean many years ago I trained the FBI,
Speaker 11: but they are now the student has now become the master.
Speaker 11: When you can identify Chinese PLA agents, Russian SVR FSB agents,
Speaker 11: when you can do identify state actors in these investigations
Speaker 11: through in cyberspace, the fact that this person has not
Speaker 11: yet been identified shows a level of sophistication. So I
Speaker 11: don't want to assume that these messages are in fact
Speaker 11: what they're purported to be. I look at it. Are
Speaker 11: they a type of misdirection? Is this more of a
Speaker 11: psychological type of thing to make you believe that it's
Speaker 11: somebody overseas or somebody a foreign when they're actually not.
Speaker 11: This is all designed to slow you down, slow down
Speaker 11: the investigation, make you chase rabbit holes. So I've been
Speaker 11: very skeptical about these notes. I don't call them ransom
Speaker 11: notes because even in the note, if you were as
Speaker 11: I said before, words mean things it says quite smart watch.
Speaker 11: It does not say Apple watch. You could have made
Speaker 11: a leap of logic to find out that that that
Speaker 11: watch may have been left behind. I don't know that
Speaker 11: for sure, but I don't see anything proprietary. If you
Speaker 11: wanted to prove to me that you actually had Nancy,
Speaker 11: that you were in care, you had the care and
Speaker 11: custody and control of her, then send me a piece
Speaker 11: of her clothing, send me something we can test with
Speaker 11: DNA to correctly establish.
Speaker 5: In fact.
Speaker 11: On the screen right now, you can see it's a
Speaker 11: white Apple watch. That it's not just a smart watch,
Speaker 11: it's an Apple watch. People also identify by brands, so Nancy.
Speaker 11: I've been very skeptical about a lot of this information.
Speaker 11: I agree that releasing the note might help, but again,
Speaker 11: as we said about the unibomber, the difference in the
Speaker 11: manifesto and the number of words gives you behavioral insight.
Speaker 11: I don't think you can get from a small amount
Speaker 11: of words.
Speaker 2: Here, Nanos, wake up man.
Speaker 3: You have me to call you every morning and wake
Speaker 3: you up and get you started.
Speaker 2: You have any color code you're clothes for you?
Speaker 3: For Pete's sake, that said Nanos going down with the ship,
Speaker 3: pretending everything's honkey dory a okay with the Feds?
Speaker 2: What a croc okay, listen to this lie.
Speaker 4: It's a good relationship. It's always been a good relationship.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: We've we've been a member of the what it's known
Speaker 4: as the Southern Arizona Violent Crime Task Force headed up
Speaker 4: by the FBI for decades. We've always participated and to
Speaker 4: this day we still do. It's a it's a it's
Speaker 4: a it's not just a great relationship, it's one that's
Speaker 4: very valued.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 3: Notice he looks right at you and lies, so you
Speaker 3: believe him, or Hanity and Ptail, listen to this.
Speaker 12: I understand everybody's frustrations on this.
Speaker 5: I'm not frustrated with you.
Speaker 2: I'm frustrated that they If I was a sheriff and
Speaker 2: you the FBI is willing to help me, and time
Speaker 2: is of the essence I would want.
Speaker 3: I'd want all the help I can get.
Speaker 12: We have Quantico best live in the world. I had
Speaker 12: a fixed wing aircraft on the ground ready to move
Speaker 12: it immediately through the night. They just say know and
Speaker 12: they said, we're sending it to Florida, And I launched
Speaker 12: hundreds of agents and Intel staff to Phoenix and Tucson
Speaker 12: just for this case, just.
Speaker 2: To be on stand.
Speaker 12: They didn't want just to do the canvassing, and we
Speaker 12: said we'll take the DNA.
Speaker 3: My ears are bleeding right now at all the missed opportunities.
Speaker 3: Back to you, Joseph Scott Morgan. You mentioned the blood
Speaker 3: on the front porch. Let's see it. It's not just there,
Speaker 3: but it trails off down the walkway, which tells me
Speaker 3: which way they took her out. It's very obvious. This
Speaker 3: is from our friends at Fox Muse Digital. That was
Speaker 3: treated like it was nothing. People walked all over it.
Speaker 3: I mean later day, late dollar short we saw a
Speaker 3: tent erected around the front porch where I guess they
Speaker 3: were finally processing it, but not before everybody and her
Speaker 3: little sister trumped all over it, including a pizza delivery
Speaker 3: person ruin. Now that's on the outside that I can see,
Speaker 3: I can only imagine the horrors, the evidentiary horrors that
Speaker 3: took place on the inside. One DNA two.
Speaker 2: They ignored the.
Speaker 3: Fact that the back door was propped open. Hello, that's
Speaker 3: how one purp came in. And I to this day
Speaker 3: believe the guy the porch guy was looking in the
Speaker 3: window to see if his accomplice had made it to
Speaker 3: the front door. Yet no forest entry. Why because they
Speaker 3: came in the back and opened the front door. Duh,
Speaker 3: So they completely ignored the back door. They go Leelu's
Speaker 3: valuable critical hours by going back and forth of the family.
Speaker 3: Do you think she wandered off?
Speaker 2: Hell?
Speaker 3: No, she can only walk X number of yards. She
Speaker 3: didn't wander off. The family kept trying to tell them that,
Speaker 3: did they listen. No, That aircraft, very very sive equipment
Speaker 3: on it, sat on that runway, fixed wing till dusk dusk,
Speaker 3: from dawn till dusk.
Speaker 2: It ain't just a movie. Okay. That's how long they
Speaker 2: waited to do.
Speaker 3: Nanos's bidding, and he couldn't get his uh self together
Speaker 3: to use it. I'm just giving you a few examples.
Speaker 3: You know how important the first hours are, Joe Scott.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do.
Speaker 10: A high school forensic class would have pushed everybody away
Speaker 10: relative to that blood evidence that you see there and
Speaker 10: would have said, we got to lock this down. That's
Speaker 10: so elemental in an investigation. And here's one other thing.
Speaker 10: You can keep that clip up. This guy moving around
Speaker 10: out here, do you see where he's placing his feet
Speaker 10: out there on those ceramic tiles. If and you know
Speaker 10: the old adage about you know, wishes in one hand
Speaker 10: something else and the other see what fills up first.
Speaker 10: But if you see this right here and he's stomping
Speaker 10: around out there, if they had frozen this area down,
Speaker 10: locked it down, do you realize that they could have
Speaker 10: done electrostatic lifts out there, place milar down, lifted shoeprints
Speaker 10: out there, and yeah, it's going to be overlaid with
Speaker 10: other shoeprints. But if you freeze it at that moment
Speaker 10: in time, you can get an idea as to what
Speaker 10: he's leaving behind us a very dusty area and you
Speaker 10: can see every step he takes. Even how often do
Speaker 10: we have where we have a this is literally gritted off, Nancy. Yeah,
Speaker 10: that's we created that at Jack State. And it would
Speaker 10: have been so easy to have lifted that off if
Speaker 10: they just frozen, you know, just frozen in time. That's
Speaker 10: that's one of the elements that happens in a crim
Speaker 10: Seene investigation. We have the ability to lock things down,
Speaker 10: freeze right and Lord only knows what happened in that
Speaker 10: bedroom that has been lost.
Speaker 2: Lisa Miller, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 5: Well. I think you know from your time as a prosecutor,
Speaker 5: there's no such thing as a perfect investigation. There are
Speaker 5: flaws now omittedly here. We have substantial flaws. I agree
Speaker 5: that crime scene should have been locked down, that should
Speaker 5: have been expanded right away. Everybody should have been kicked
Speaker 5: off with that property. We know that. I have to
Speaker 5: give the benefit of the doubt here. We didn't have
Speaker 5: the video of this porch guy walking around in those
Speaker 5: first days, and there was some mistakes, and as much
Speaker 5: regard as.
Speaker 3: I have for the FBI, I do not want to
Speaker 3: tangle with you because of your expertise and maybe over
Speaker 3: my head right now, but no, we didn't have the
Speaker 3: video because Nana's blurret it out.
Speaker 2: There is no video, but we did have.
Speaker 3: The blood trailing off in the direction where she went,
Speaker 3: so we know she went that way. I don't need
Speaker 3: a video. I could figure that much out on my own.
Speaker 3: My two twins could figure that out.
Speaker 5: I agree. And in a massive misstep by both the FBI,
Speaker 5: because they did come back later, they also did not
Speaker 5: take that mat. They also did not take that door
Speaker 5: off and ship it to Quantico for processing. Well, you're
Speaker 5: exactly right. We saw the blood, so that should have
Speaker 5: shut down that front entrance area. They also should have
Speaker 5: seen where the camera a camera had been removed from
Speaker 5: the frame holding it to the doorframe. That should have
Speaker 5: given them an indication.
Speaker 3: Good point. Good point. We completely glossed over that. That
Speaker 3: was a major red flag that she had been taken.
Speaker 3: Yet they dithered around for hours trying to figure out
Speaker 3: that she wander off and another blurt effects nanos reveals
Speaker 3: something critical.
Speaker 4: It's very active. We've got a lot of work ahead
Speaker 4: of us. We've done a lot of work, but we
Speaker 4: still have more. And there's not just in DNA where
Speaker 4: labs across the country are working together, but in forensics
Speaker 4: analysis of thousands and thousands of videos, photos, and we
Speaker 4: also have still tens of thousands of tips that we
Speaker 4: that come in and we actively work in them. So
Speaker 4: it's a very active investigation.
Speaker 3: Every time he speaks, I cringe, why is DNA all
Speaker 3: across the country because he sent it to his pet
Speaker 3: lab that he's got a money contract with in Florida
Speaker 3: DNA Lab International, I believe is the name, instead of
Speaker 3: sending it to experts in this field.
Speaker 2: They again dithered.
Speaker 3: For weeks and weeks and weeks before it was finally
Speaker 3: sent to labs that could handle the job.
Speaker 2: I call on.
Speaker 3: All citizen sleuths, regardless of your expertise. They need help.
Speaker 3: My mind is open to any analysis, any observation at
Speaker 3: all regarding these ransom notes. How do you think Kazinski
Speaker 3: was solved because of the manifesto? It's happened over and
Speaker 3: over before. If you know or think you know anything
Speaker 3: about Missus Guthrie's disappearance, dial eight hundred two two five
Speaker 3: five three two four, or if you wish to remain
Speaker 3: anonymous five two zero eight eight two seven four sixty three.
Speaker 3: There is one point two plus million dollar reward for
Speaker 3: information leading to Missus Guthrie or her remains. Where about.
Speaker 3: A conviction is not required for you to get one
Speaker 3: point two million dollars. We remember an American hero, Deputy
Speaker 3: Sheriff Jillian Olson, Lexington County Sheriff of South Carolina, just
Speaker 3: twenty nine killed in a line of duty, leaving behind
Speaker 3: grieving parents. So proud of her, Jim and Molly. American
Speaker 3: hero Deputy Sheriff Jillian Olson, thank you to our guest,
Speaker 3: but especially to you for never giving up in the
Speaker 3: search for missus Guthrie. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight,
Speaker 3: but I'll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night.