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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Apple car Play and then roud Otto

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Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: It's around this time yesterday we were listening to a

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Speaker 2: live conversation between former President Donald Trump and Bloomberg editor

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Speaker 2: in chief John Micklethwaite in Chicago, in which he was

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Speaker 2: talking about Chicago, Detroit and other industrialized American cities and

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Speaker 2: in some senses saying they make us look like a

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Speaker 2: developing nation. That is the picture he sees when he

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Speaker 2: looks at the cities of America.

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Speaker 3: That's true, and we wanted to have a conversation with

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Speaker 3: someone who knows what it's likes to run a city.

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Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of mayors. I think you understand.

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Speaker 3: Please are politicians who don't always have the luxury to

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Speaker 3: play the partisan game and go along with the crowd.

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Speaker 3: They need to get things done, They need to build relationships,

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Speaker 3: actually know their constituents on a first name basis so

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Speaker 3: they can manage the city. This is about potholes. This

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Speaker 3: is about getting people to work, This is about public transportation,

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Speaker 3: keeping people safe. A lot of the things that lawmakers

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Speaker 3: in Washington will never have to face. And it's where

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Speaker 3: we start our conversation with the mayor of Saint Louis.

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Speaker 3: Mayor Tashara Jones is joining us, interestingly from Mexico City.

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Speaker 3: This is a conversation we have been looking for, looking

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Speaker 3: forward to as part of Bloomberg City Lab. And Mayor,

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Speaker 3: it's great to have you with us here on Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: TV and Radio. I know you're a long way from home.

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Speaker 3: What are you learning and what are you talking about

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Speaker 3: today at City Lab?

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you for having met Bloomberg City Lab. This

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Speaker 4: is my second year coming and it has been just

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Speaker 4: a whole wealth of ideas sharing from mayors and leaders

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Speaker 4: all all across the And what I have found out

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Speaker 4: is that whether you are a mayor in Saint Louis, Missouri,

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Speaker 4: or in Glasgow in the UK, or even in Africa,

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Speaker 4: we all share the same struggles and the same issues,

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Speaker 4: and we just have different approaches to them. So we're

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Speaker 4: able to share how we've tackled a lot of the

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Speaker 4: same ideas. And also it's relationship building. So I'm really

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Speaker 4: enjoying myself over these past couple of days.

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Speaker 2: Well as this is your second time attending, this year

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Speaker 2: may be different than last mayor because this year it

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Speaker 2: is happening with just weeks to go until a presidential

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Speaker 2: election in which voters in your city and cities across

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Speaker 2: America will be heading to the pulling booth to cast

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Speaker 2: a vote. How concerned are you about the kind of

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Speaker 2: rhetoric we're getting around this election is We've had people

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Speaker 2: warning us about civil unrest, not just here in Washington

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Speaker 2: at the Capitol building, but in cities in state capitals.

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Speaker 2: What is Saint Louis ready for?

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Speaker 4: So we're very concerned. I'm learned from my country because

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Speaker 4: this is the most monumental election that I have witnessed

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Speaker 4: since I have been voting as a as a young teenager.

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Speaker 4: We're not concerned in Saint Louis per se on any

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Speaker 4: violence happening happening at our polling places. Missouri is pretty

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Speaker 4: much a red state. We know which way it's going

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Speaker 4: to go for the presidential election, and are unfortunately our

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Speaker 4: state wide elections. But what I am most concerned about

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Speaker 4: is in our swing states and states where the where

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Speaker 4: the vote is really tighter, where the polls are really tight,

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Speaker 4: and I'm concerned about making sure that there is a

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Speaker 4: peaceful transfer of power no matter who wins.

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Speaker 3: Mayor Jones Kayley mentioned earlier some of Donald Trump's remarks

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Speaker 3: about cities. In his interview with Bloomberg yesterday, he disparaged

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Speaker 3: Milwaukee ahead of the Republican National convention there. He's frequently

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Speaker 3: criticized Chicago and San Francisco, and took aim at Detroit yesterday,

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Speaker 3: which was curious knowing that it is, of course in

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Speaker 3: the swing state of Michigan, which pretty much any candidate

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Speaker 3: needs to win to get into the White House. Here,

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Speaker 3: I'd look for you to listen to what he said

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Speaker 3: about Detroit, and we'll have your respond here.

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Speaker 5: He is not one president, not think of it. Not

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Speaker 5: one president. Charge China anything. They said, Oh, they are

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Speaker 5: third world nation, they are developing. Well, we're a developing

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Speaker 5: nation too. Take a look at Detroit. Take a look

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Speaker 5: at our cities. We're a developing nation. We have to

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Speaker 5: develop more than they do. That we're way behind them.

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Speaker 5: You take a look at what's happened to our cities.

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Speaker 6: Mayor.

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Speaker 3: He has said recently that if Kamala Harris is elected,

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Speaker 3: that the entire state of Michigan will look like Detroit.

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Speaker 3: What what did Trump two point zero mean for mayors

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Speaker 3: and people who live in American cities.

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Speaker 4: Well, Trump two point zero is going to mean that

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Speaker 4: all American cities will look will look like world countries.

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Speaker 4: Right now, we enjoy a great relationship with the Biden

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Speaker 4: Hairs administration because they are focused on cities. They have

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Speaker 4: hired many former mayors in their administration and cabinet secretaries,

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Speaker 4: and those mayors know what it's like to lead on

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Speaker 4: the ground. They know that mayors are closest to the

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Speaker 4: problems and closest to the solutions. Mayors get things done.

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Speaker 4: We are the implementers of federal policy of state policy,

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Speaker 4: and right now we know what the Biden Hairs administration

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Speaker 4: and the investments that they've made directly into cities. We

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Speaker 4: have been able to turn our cities around and see

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Speaker 4: investment in cities that and in places that haven't seen

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Speaker 4: investment in decades, and taking care of the least of these,

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Speaker 4: of the marginalized of people who really need help. And

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Speaker 4: we know we're not going to get that kind of

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Speaker 4: assistance from a Trump two point zero administration.

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Speaker 2: Well, we also heard Donald Trump yesterday, not in that

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg interview, Mayor, but in a town hall that was

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Speaker 2: taped with Fox with an entirely female audience, saying that

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Speaker 2: some abortion restrictions are too tough and that they'll be

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Speaker 2: redone in some of these states. And I would point

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Speaker 2: out that in your state of Missouri, abortion is on

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Speaker 2: the ballot in November. I know you just told us,

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Speaker 2: may Or that it's not going to be a surprise

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Speaker 2: what way Missouri goes in the presidential race. It is

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Speaker 2: going very likely to go read but what's going to

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Speaker 2: happen to Amendment three, the Right to Reproductive Freedom initiative?

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Speaker 4: So Missouri is a little unique in that Amendment three

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Speaker 4: is actually polling ahead. So we totally expect Amendment three

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Speaker 4: to pass. But unfortunately Missourians will elect Republicans to lead

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Speaker 4: our state who will do everything in their power to

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Speaker 4: try to turn those games back. Missouri enjoys a very

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Speaker 4: liberal policy when it comes to access to the ballot

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Speaker 4: and passing very progressive measures on ballot initiatives, but unfortunately

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Speaker 4: we continue to elect Republicans statewide who do everything in

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Speaker 4: their power to roll back everything that we passed in

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Speaker 4: the ballot. So I expect nothing less than what to

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Speaker 4: than that to happen. If Amendment three passes and we

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Speaker 4: get a Republican controlled state Assembly and state wide offices.

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Speaker 2: Well, Mayor, we'd love to have you back on Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: to talk about that if and when that does happen.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us today live from

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Speaker 2: Mexico City at Bloomberg City Lab. That was the mayor

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Speaker 2: of Saint Louis to Sharat Jones here on Bloomberg TV

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Speaker 2: and Radio. Now we ask the mayor there, Joe, about

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Speaker 2: if she's concerned about the elections, not just the security

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Speaker 2: of the vote, but the security of the people trying

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Speaker 2: to vote, trying to count the votes, as there has

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Speaker 2: been a lot of calls or concern around potential civil

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Speaker 2: unrest that could ensue. That is a question mark. What

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Speaker 2: seems to be a certainty at this point is that

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Speaker 2: there is going to be a lot of litigation around

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Speaker 2: this election, and we know that because there already is.

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Speaker 3: Well that's true. People talk about the idea of this

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Speaker 3: election being decided in court. The fact of the matter

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Speaker 3: is courts are already helping to shape this election. You

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Speaker 3: see the Big Take today. This is the smartest thing

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Speaker 3: that you'll read on the terminal. Really fascinating story with

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Speaker 3: great data that we've put together. One hundred and sixty five.

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Speaker 3: By the way, at least one hundred and sixty five

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Speaker 3: lawsuits filed since twenty twenty three, Kaylee against thirty seven states,

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Speaker 3: challenging every facet as we're reporting of the presidential contest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we want to get more into this reporting now.

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Speaker 2: In turn to Bloomberg, Zoe Tilman, who's here with us

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Speaker 2: in our Washington, d C. Studio and of course you

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Speaker 2: can find her big Take on the terminal and online. So, Zoe,

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Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty five lawsuits already, and we're still

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Speaker 2: three weeks out from election day. So what's this number

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Speaker 2: realistically going to look like on November sixth?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's hard to know.

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Speaker 7: It's going to depend on where the results are close, right,

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Speaker 7: So preemptively the campaigns are getting lawyers into place in

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Speaker 7: every state, really, but focused on the seven states where

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Speaker 7: the polls are closest. But it's going to depend on

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Speaker 7: where it looks like a candidate is prepared to lose

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Speaker 7: and do they see an opening to ask a judge

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Speaker 7: to intervene in the days before or after the results

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Speaker 7: are certified.

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Speaker 3: It just reminds us how this is shifting under our

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Speaker 3: feet as we speak, as we make our way through

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Speaker 3: the final three weeks here. And there was an important

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Speaker 3: development in Georgia yesterday a judge temporarily blocking the state

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Speaker 3: rule requiring hand counting of ballots. That's a big deal

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Speaker 3: in the way this is going to roll out following

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Speaker 3: the election. How many more rulings could we see between

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Speaker 3: now and November fifth?

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Speaker 7: We know in Georgia we're expecting more in that state

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Speaker 7: alone on this question of how ballots are counted and

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Speaker 7: the role of officials at the county level to certify

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Speaker 7: those results. So we're waiting on decisions in other cases

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Speaker 7: before different judges challenging that handcount rule, a rule that

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Speaker 7: the state's Republican Secretary of State and attorney general said

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Speaker 7: was likely illegal. So it's not just Democrats coming in

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Speaker 7: to oppose that. We're also waiting for decisions on a

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Speaker 7: rule that would empower local officials to do their own

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Speaker 7: independent investigations into the election as part of the certification process,

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Speaker 7: a rule that again is being criticized as a way

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Speaker 7: to inject chaos and confusion into a process that historically

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Speaker 7: has not been controversial.

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Speaker 2: Well, could it be just as chaotic for these rulings

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Speaker 2: to happen so close to an election then as it

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Speaker 2: would be chaotic for these things to actually go into place.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how are our local election officials going to

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Speaker 2: understand what exactly the processes are if they're very much

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Speaker 2: in question right up until.

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Speaker 4: It's go time.

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Speaker 7: You know, I've talked to officials at the county level

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Speaker 7: who are in charge of these systems, and they've told me,

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Speaker 7: you know, for the first time this year, I've signed

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Speaker 7: up for accounts to monitor dockets because I need to

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Speaker 7: know what is still outstanding that I need to plan for.

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Speaker 7: So they've got an eye on these cases. They know

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Speaker 7: that things might change ahead of time. They're trying to

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Speaker 7: prepare as best they can. But you know, it's something

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Speaker 7: judges are sensitive to, and they underst stand that they too,

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Speaker 7: can inject confusion and chaos by making changes. Even if

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Speaker 7: you know the finding is that something is illegal or unconstitutional,

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Speaker 7: they have to balance that finding with the possibility of

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Speaker 7: creating even more problems ahead of election day.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting coming off of twenty twenty, thinking of Republicans

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Speaker 3: as potentially being more re litigious when it comes to

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Speaker 3: electoral outcomes, you found that they have been more active

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Speaker 3: than Democrats when it comes to filing lawsuits, but it's

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Speaker 3: only fifty five percent. Democrats pretty busy too.

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Speaker 8: They've been busy, you know.

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Speaker 7: I think that the left has been in court challenging

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Speaker 7: states that they feel are trying to put up illegal

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Speaker 7: barriers to voting, and that's historically been something we've seen

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Speaker 7: Democrats litigating over ahead of elections. I think what's different

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Speaker 7: this year, besides just the volume, is we've seen, for instance,

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Speaker 7: the Republican National Committee saying in advance, you know, we

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Speaker 7: are going to go to court. This is a part

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Speaker 7: of now the campaign season and the strategy in a

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Speaker 7: way that it just hasn't formally been a part of

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Speaker 7: this landscape really before twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: You must be really living this. This is a massive

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Speaker 3: story that took a lot of legwork.

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Speaker 7: Oh thank you. It's a very intense stretch.

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Speaker 3: Sure can really check this out. Look for it on

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Speaker 3: the terminal. The big take. More than one hundred and

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Speaker 3: sixty five lawsuits already shaping the US presidential election Zoe Tilman,

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Speaker 3: thanks for great reporting and a great conversation. I'm Joe

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Speaker 3: Matthew alongside Kaylee Lions on the fastest show in Politics.

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Speaker 3: As we make our way coming up later this hour

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Speaker 3: to the economy and the conversation you saw and heard

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Speaker 3: with Donald Trump yesterday. Douglas Holtz ekein the Republican Economists

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Speaker 3: will join us to pick through what we learned from

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: Here on Bloomberg, you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of

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Speaker 1: Power podcast kens just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on

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Speaker 1: Applecarplay and then roud Oro with the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: The Washington Edition, and the Wednesday edition of Balance of Power.

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Speaker 2: I'm Kaylee Lines alongside Joe Matthew here on Bloomberg TV

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Speaker 2: and Radio. And if you were with us on the

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Speaker 2: Tuesday edition at this time yesterday, we were seeing a

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Speaker 2: more than hour long conversation between former President Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: and Bloomberg Editor in chief John Micklethwaite wrapping up. It

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Speaker 2: was extensive. They covered a lot of territory but they

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Speaker 2: began with a question around the deficit. To summarize, the

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Speaker 2: question was, essentially, you've proposed a lot of tax cuts.

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Speaker 2: What do you say to people who are concerned about

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Speaker 2: the impact that we'll have on the US debt? This

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Speaker 2: was his very first answer.

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Speaker 5: We're all about growth. We're going to bring companies back

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Speaker 5: to our country. We're going to lower taxes still further

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Speaker 5: for companies that are going to make their product in

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Speaker 5: the USA. We're going to protect those companies with strong

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Speaker 5: tariffs because I'm a believer in tariff.

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Speaker 3: From our interview here at this time yesterday on Bloomberg,

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Speaker 3: and it's where we start our conversation with Douglas holtz Eken,

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Speaker 3: President the American Action Forum, of course, economist, former OMB

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Speaker 3: director or CBO director. Douglas. Forgive me, it's great to

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Speaker 3: have you back with us here on Bloomberg TV and radio.

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Speaker 3: This has been an interesting conversation about tariffs and taxes.

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Speaker 3: And we'll start on the Donald Trump side. Here. Are

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Speaker 3: you getting religion as a Republican on tariffs?

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Speaker 9: Douglas, I've had religion for a long time about tariffs,

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Speaker 9: thank you, but I don't think it's the same religion

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Speaker 9: that Donald Trump is practicing you know, okay, there are

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Speaker 9: really two strong beliefs that he continues to display that

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Speaker 9: have been really fully repudiated by the research literature. The

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Speaker 9: first is that, you know, tariffs are attacks. They are

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Speaker 9: attacks on purchases from foreign sellers. And there's always a

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Speaker 9: question in taxes as to who bears the economic burden

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Speaker 9: of the tacks. Is there a way to shift it

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Speaker 9: back to the seller and not bear the incidents in

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Speaker 9: the United States. The answer for the literature is no,

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Speaker 9: consumers will bear these taxes and as a result, will

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Speaker 9: be made worse off other things being the same by

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Speaker 9: the tariff policy. And his tarif policies are big, a

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Speaker 9: three trillion dollar proposal for a ten percent across the

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Speaker 9: board tariff. So that's sort of the first thing he

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Speaker 9: clings to, and the second is what is being accomplished

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Speaker 9: by the tariff And his assertion would be We're going

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Speaker 9: to stop trading for particular goods, especially manufacturing goods, and

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Speaker 9: make them in the United States instead, and.

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Speaker 6: We will be better as a result. But that goes.

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Speaker 9: Against the vast amount of evidence that there are gains

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Speaker 9: for international trade, and they're gains from trade in general,

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Speaker 9: and tariffs are undoing those gains from trade, So they're

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Speaker 9: not going to make average Americans better off. In two ways,

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Speaker 9: they'll bear the burden of the tariff, and they will

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Speaker 9: also have more expensive products.

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Speaker 6: From which to choose.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay. Donald Trump definitely pushed back against that idea

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Speaker 2: in this conversation yesterday, as we've seen him do repeatedly

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Speaker 2: when confronted with that kind of reasoning from economists. He

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Speaker 2: contended to your point about it being more about making

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Speaker 2: stuff in the US, that the whole idea with his tariffs,

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Speaker 2: as you make and I'm quoting directly here them so high,

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Speaker 2: so horrible, so obnoxious, that they'll come right away, They

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Speaker 2: meaning companies that currently are making goods in the US,

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Speaker 2: will come to the US. Even if that is how

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Speaker 2: that would actually translate, how long would that take for

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Speaker 2: the reordering of supply chains and the building of manufacturing facilities.

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Speaker 6: Realistically, that's a decades long process, to say the least.

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Speaker 9: And remember, locations are not driven just by taxes tariffs.

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Speaker 9: Locations are driven by access to markets, and a lot

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Speaker 9: of facilities are not in the United States because there

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Speaker 9: are greater markets outside and greater opportunities for US companies

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Speaker 9: to provide profits back to the United States and a

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Speaker 9: standard of living in the United States by selling abroad.

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Speaker 9: So to focus narrowly on that, I think misses the point.

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Speaker 9: The second thing that they dismissed by that is, you know,

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Speaker 9: you're diminishing the pressure on domestic producers. If you get

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Speaker 9: a big tariff wall, they don't have to keep their

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Speaker 9: prices load to sell things. They can raise their prices

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Speaker 9: to just under the tariff wall. And you know, every

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Speaker 9: if you ask anyone are you going to do that,

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Speaker 9: they'll say, oh, no, no, we would never do that.

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Speaker 9: But if you look at what happens in response to tariffs,

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Speaker 9: prices rise for the protected products. That's not good for

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Speaker 9: any of us.

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Speaker 3: Well it makes you wonder what life is going to

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Speaker 3: be like at the CBO. I know he doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: need Congress for terrorists, but a President Trump would need

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Speaker 3: Congress to pass the tax proposals that he's put forth,

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Speaker 3: making permanent the twenty seventeen tax cuts, and he's added

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Speaker 3: a raft of them. Since you know this, Douglas, you know,

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Speaker 3: whether you're talking about deductions for auto loan payments, tips, overtime,

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Speaker 3: some of the other stuff. Also, the Salt Okay CBO

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Speaker 3: ought to start working on this with the Green Visors.

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Speaker 9: Now, yes, these are proposals that don't fit any coherent philosophy.

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Speaker 9: So one of the things that I just noticed that

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Speaker 9: there isn't in this race a candidate who has a

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Speaker 9: consistent pro growth philosophy that relies on the private sector

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Speaker 9: and believes a small, contained government should get out of

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Speaker 9: its way to the extent possible.

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Speaker 6: That's missing.

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Speaker 9: Instead, we have statist candidates who believe that they run

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Speaker 9: the economy and they're gonna provide the goodies to whoever

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Speaker 9: they favor.

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Speaker 6: So that's what you're getting.

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Speaker 9: And you know, handouts to campaign stops is not new

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Speaker 9: in presidential politics. But what's really I think most important

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Speaker 9: about the Trump proposes. They're often quite large. These aren't

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Speaker 9: small rifle shots. And something has to happen next year.

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Speaker 9: Unlike the usual campaign thing which is, oh well we

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Speaker 9: just couldn't get it done, we didn't get support in

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Speaker 9: Capitol Hill.

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Speaker 6: A tax bill has to happen next year.

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Speaker 9: And people who have been promised something on a campaign,

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Speaker 9: no tax, on tips, over time, whatever it might be,

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Speaker 9: are going to be asking the White House, why isn't

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Speaker 9: it happening, and it's going to make the process of

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Speaker 9: getting to YES in twenty twenty five harder even than

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Speaker 9: it needed to be.

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Speaker 6: And it's hard to begin with.

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Speaker 2: And then there's the other side of that equation, which

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Speaker 2: is spending. Donald Trump is talking about supplementing the lost

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Speaker 2: revenue with the income from tariffs of growing our way

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Speaker 2: partially out of the tax cuts, But spending cuts are

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Speaker 2: going to have to come somewhere, right, even for even

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Speaker 2: if there was a red sweep on in the balance

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Speaker 2: of Congress in this election along with a Donald Trump presidency,

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Speaker 2: is it going to be that easy to get only

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Speaker 2: lower taxes and no spending cuts through a House of

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Speaker 2: Representatives where we have seen a spending battle time and

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Speaker 2: time again. Be very difficult to keep the Republican Conference

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Speaker 2: in line.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I mean, let's put the politics aside for

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Speaker 9: just one second. I know that's what the show's about,

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Speaker 9: but let's just do the arithmetic.

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Speaker 2: We do policy here too.

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Speaker 9: So so security and medicare you know, thirty six trillion

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Speaker 9: dollars over the next ten years, more than half of

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Speaker 9: all non inter spending.

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Speaker 6: Those two programs are going to be growing.

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Speaker 9: In average rates of five and a half percent for

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Speaker 9: SoC securities, seven percent for medicare. If the economy is

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Speaker 9: growing at two percent real two percent inflation, that's four

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Speaker 9: percent nomenal. That's how fast revenue will grow. It'll grow

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Speaker 9: at four percent. So it's not gonna be able to

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Speaker 9: catch up with the spending. The only way to get

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Speaker 9: the death cited under control is to actually get spending

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Speaker 9: to come down to the pace of growth of the

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Speaker 9: nominal economy. And I will just stimulate. They can have

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Speaker 9: great growth policies. They're not going to move four to seven.

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Speaker 9: That's not gonna happen. So you got to get serious

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Speaker 9: about spending. One are the two programs the President said

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Speaker 9: he won't touch, so scarity of medicare, what's the You know,

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Speaker 9: Vice President Harris is not going to touch those cannon

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Speaker 9: and Trump's not gonna touch this. All of Washington is

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Speaker 9: putting his head in the sand and ignoring the real problem.

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Speaker 9: That's the real problem needs to be dealt with.

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Speaker 3: I turn to the FED here, Douglas. Donald Trump was

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Speaker 3: asked about FED independence yesterday. It's one of our favorite

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Speaker 3: topics around here, and I don't know how you see this.

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Speaker 3: Scott Bessett joined us the other day. He said, it's

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Speaker 3: no different than Elizabeth Warren shouting into the wind here

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Speaker 3: when it comes to the FED Donald Trump and say

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Speaker 3: whatever he wants, We're still going to have a FED chair,

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Speaker 3: although they are talking about an alternate FED chair of

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Speaker 3: some sort here. He was asked about this in the

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Speaker 3: interview on Bloomberg. Here's how he characterized the job.

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Speaker 5: Douglas, I think it's the greatest job in government. You

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Speaker 5: show up to the office once a month and you say,

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Speaker 5: let's say, flip a coal and everybody talks about you

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Speaker 5: like your god, Oh, what will he do? I think

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Speaker 5: that if you're a very good president with good sense,

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Speaker 5: you should be able to at least talk to him.

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Speaker 5: I don't say make the decision at all.

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Speaker 3: What do you think about this, Douglas? Are we making

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Speaker 3: too big a deal of the idea of the president

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Speaker 3: talking to the FED chair? And is it the best

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Speaker 3: job in government?

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Speaker 9: Well, I'll pass on whether it's the best job in government.

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Speaker 9: I thought I had the best job in government at

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Speaker 9: the CBO. So you can ask your own power what

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Speaker 9: he thinks. Look, look, the president has the enormous influence

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Speaker 9: of the FED. The president appoints all the governors or

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Speaker 9: they get the sentate confirmation chooses the chair. So it's

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Speaker 9: not like the president has no say in has the

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Speaker 9: enormous say. There's nothing that stops the Chairman of the

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Speaker 9: Federal Reserve from having lunch with the Secretary of Treasury.

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Speaker 9: That's gone on for decades and decades, and the Secretary

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Speaker 9: explaining the administration's position to the FED chair, and a

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Speaker 9: good fair FED chair will listen and then go back

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Speaker 9: and do their job. So I don't think there's anything

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Speaker 9: special about Trump elevating that to a public.

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Speaker 6: Discussion about it. I'd like this in it.

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Speaker 9: The only questions whether you make structural changes that allow

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Speaker 9: the President of States to put their thumb on the

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Speaker 9: scale and change decisions of the FMC, and I think

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Speaker 9: that would be a mistake. All of the research evidence

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Speaker 9: suggests that the independence of the FED and monetary authorities

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Speaker 9: in general produces better monetary policy.

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Speaker 6: Thinks you. We stick to that.

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Speaker 2: Well as we consider it the Fed's monetary policy. We

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Speaker 2: have now entered a world in which policy is easy

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00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 2: rather than tightening. We saw that first fifty basis point

440
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 2: FED cut. We could see one or two more this year. Douglas,

441
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 2: My question is what happens in twenty twenty five when

442
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 2: we have a new president. What is your expectation around

443
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: what the fiscal policy pursued by that president in whatever

444
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 2: Congress we get could mean ultimately for the path the

445
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: FED is likely to go down? Are they going to

446
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 2: have to start hiking again in short order?

447
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, I think we know.

448
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 9: Maybe this isn't the best job in government because when

449
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 9: asked that question, Chairman Power had to dodge and leave

450
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 9: like mad. So that's a hard job. Look, here's a

451
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 9: scenario that is not crazy. We just talked about it,

452
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 9: and it's very hard for the Fed. President Trump gets elected,

453
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 9: he institutes across the board ten percent tariff, using executive authorities.

454
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 6: That he believes he has. What does the FED do?

455
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 6: Do they allow that.

456
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 9: To pass through and get a ten percent increase in

457
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,959
Speaker 9: the price level, perhaps underminding their credibility in their fight

458
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 9: against inflation, or do they do a U turn lean

459
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 9: against that by raising rates and run the risk of

460
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 9: a sharper downturn. This is a dilemma for the FED.

461
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 9: I know they don't want to talk about it in public,

462
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 9: but in private they have to be more gaining different

463
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 9: scenarios to think about how they'll respond to any sort

464
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 9: of administrative actions that could happen quickly and legislative actions

465
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 9: that they'd be tracking.

466
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 6: During the course of twenty twenty five.

467
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 3: New York Times reporting Michelle Bowman could be on track

468
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 3: to be a FED chair and a Trump two point

469
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 3: zero Douglas, does that ring true?

470
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 6: I have no idea.

471
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 9: I'm not privy to the personal decisions of the Trump campaign.

472
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 6: Will stay tuned and what's what happens.

473
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this about the narrative in Washington

474
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 3: right now that Donald Trump, and a lot of this

475
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 3: is based on the number crunching from the Committee for

476
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 3: a Responsible Federal Budget, that Donald Trump would be more

477
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 3: of a threat to the nation's debt and deficit than

478
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 3: Kamala Harris in a big picture scenario. Is that true?

479
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 9: I think in the big picture, neither is a particularly

480
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 9: attractive candidate. Neither is dedicated to dealing with the trajectory

481
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 9: of ever rising debt and the unsustainable nature of the

482
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 9: federal budget. Neither has sensible economic policies that will generate

483
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 9: more rapid trend growth, and neither has a track follow through.

484
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 9: So these proposals on the campaign. His add up to

485
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 9: a bigger number. But I'm interested in the track record

486
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 9: of the individual in that key moments, being willing to

487
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 9: make tough decisions in favor of the future, and having

488
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 9: the ability to control the spending.

489
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 6: Neither has any evidence on that front.

490
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 2: In our final minute here, Douglas, the Trump campaign and

491
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 2: others we have spoken with have suggested things would be

492
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 2: so different if COVID hadn't interrupted what was happening in

493
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 2: the economy during his administration. When we reference back to

494
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: the idea we didn't grow our way out of the

495
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen tax cuts. To what extent is that true?

496
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 9: Well, I think that they should get a lot of

497
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 9: credit for the initial jump start to the economy. I

498
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 9: think what's been reported on too little is the regulatory controls.

499
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 9: The regulatory controls in the Trump ammitiation were extraordinary. We

500
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 9: went from adding one hundred billion dollars a year in

501
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 9: regulatory costs to essentially nothing, and it helps small businesses.

502
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 9: It's a big part of the jump start. The tax

503
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 9: bill was an enormously big step forward.

504
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 6: There was a big.

505
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 9: Spending push as well, and the condomy was growing like mad.

506
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 9: But then they picked a trade All of China, and

507
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 9: we saw it slow right down. So if we hadn't

508
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 9: seen COVID, it's an open question whether it would have

509
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 9: kept slowing down or not.

510
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 2: All right, Douglas Holds ecan always great to have you

511
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: here on Balance of Power. He is president at the

512
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: American Action Forum. We appreciate your time here. On Bloomberg

513
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 2: TV and radio.

514
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

515
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play

516
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: and then rout out with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen

517
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us

518
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: live on YouTube.

519
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: I'm Katie Lines alongside Joe Matthew here in Washington, where

520
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 2: we already told you earlier this week about some new

521
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 2: policy proposals from Vice President Kamala Harris as she tries

522
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: to woo more black men into her electoral coalition, talking

523
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 2: about small business loans forgivable up to twenty thousand dollars,

524
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: legalizing marijuana on the federal level, and yes, even providing

525
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: a regulatory framework for cryptocurrencies. But it's even a little

526
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: bit more explicit.

527
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 6: Than that was.

528
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 2: She is doing a media outreach as well, including an

529
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 2: appearance on Charlemagne the God in an audio town hall

530
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: yesterday where she had this to say.

531
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 10: My agenda is about tapping into the ambitions and the aspirations,

532
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 10: knowing that folks want to have an opportunity. If they want,

533
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 10: they should have a meaningful opportunity to build wealth, including

534
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 10: intergenerational wealth. Black families are forty percent less likely to

535
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 10: be homeowners than others, and that home ownership is one

536
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 10: of the surest ways to build intergenerational wealth.

537
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 3: That's from yesterday, late yesterday, the conversation with Charlemagne the

538
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 3: Breakfast Club that's still resonating today even as Kamally Harris

539
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 3: moves on to the next interview. As we were discussing,

540
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: but we want to stop down at this moment and

541
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: spend some time with Charles Phillips, co founder managing partner

542
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 3: of recognized coach here of the Black Economic Alliance, with

543
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 3: us speaking as a surrogate for the Harris campaign, and

544
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 3: with us from world headquarters in New York. Charles's great

545
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 3: to have you on Bloomberg TV and radio. Are we

546
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: entering a new age of politics?

547
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 6: Here?

548
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: Kaylee used the word explicit, which I like in this case,

549
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 3: the very on the nose approach to specific demographics, in

550
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 3: this case young black men. Saying it out loud, is

551
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 3: that what these campaigns need to be doing.

552
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 11: I think it's a great idea. She's basically doing what

553
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 11: it all candidates should be doing. It's listening to voters,

554
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 11: and if they are asking you questions in one detail,

555
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 11: how this affects me, give them that. So I think

556
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 11: it's like any business responding to their customers. So we've

557
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 11: been polling black command for the last year or so

558
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 11: and their top three issues all have to do with

559
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 11: the economy, inflation, home ownership, the things she's talking about,

560
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 11: but they want details, how is this going to work

561
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 11: and when's this going to happen. The second thing they

562
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 11: told us is we don't want to hear from celebrities.

563
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 11: That's five percent said they'd listened to a celebrity on

564
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 11: this topic. Thirty two percent said we'd rather hear from

565
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 11: some black business leaders. So that's what we're doing. We're

566
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 11: doing a town hall with her with the black men

567
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 11: rather during the Texan campaign. We have a letter with

568
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 11: fifty black leaders coming out later this week endorsing Kamala

569
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 11: Harris as well. Well.

570
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: When we consider, as you mentioned the polling you were

571
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: doing what black voters want to hear. I do wonder

572
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: how much longer there really is with less than three

573
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: weeks ago, and tell election day to close the gap

574
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: that has been created, not between Kamala Harris and Donald

575
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: Trump in this regard, but where Kamala Harris is now

576
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 2: compared to where Joe Biden was with this group in

577
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. In twenty twenty, Biden got what eighty seven

578
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: percent of the blackmail vote. The numbers look much lower

579
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: in this cycle. Is there still room for them to

580
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: change materially?

581
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 11: Well, she's come up dramatically since she's first launched. Remember

582
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 11: it's only been seventy days, so she had a lot

583
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 11: of work to do, get the policy in place and

584
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 11: reach out to people. And one way you do that

585
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 11: is to be explicit because you have to get your

586
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 11: message out quickly. She didn't have two years to get

587
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 11: ready for this, so her momentum is going in the

588
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 11: right direction. But given so little time, she's doing the

589
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 11: right thing. Also talking to people who you normally wouldn't

590
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 11: be expected to talk to. I think it's great. She's

591
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 11: going on Fox News tonight, She's going to do some

592
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 11: other shows as well, and so I think given a

593
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 11: limited timeframe, that's what you have to do.

594
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: Use that word again, Charles explicit. You also made the

595
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 3: point though, that we share, as I guess, varying demographics,

596
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 3: pretty much all the same issues. When it comes to

597
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 3: the economy. People want to know how to get a

598
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 3: house out of pay for a car, how to pay

599
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 3: for their kids. Why does it come down to targeting

600
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: specific groups of people? This is what some refer to

601
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 3: as identity politics now.

602
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 11: Because there are specific groups who've been left out in

603
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 11: the past. They feel like their needs weren't being addressed,

604
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 11: they didn't participate. And if you're saying I can participate

605
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 11: now and everyone's going to be included, how do I

606
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 11: get in on this? And so I think it's okay.

607
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 11: I mean we do this for every other group all

608
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 11: the time. There's all sorts of lobbyists for different industries,

609
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 11: all sorts of lobbyies for a gun ownership, you name it.

610
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 11: Everybody wants to make sure that my thing is paid

611
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 11: attention to. So I think her going group, bike group

612
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 11: and saying, yeah, you included. Here's here's how it applies

613
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 11: to use a good thing.

614
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 2: And you mentioned that one of the kinds of individuals

615
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: in this group wants to hear from, include black business

616
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: leaders or just business leaders in general. And I do wonder,

617
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: as we all witnessed on Bloomberg yesterday, donald Trump getting

618
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: a pretty warm reception and a room full of what

619
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: included a lot of business leaders in Chicago. As we've

620
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: seen as he's spoken before other economic clubs in New

621
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: York or elsewhere, there is still a feeling that Donald

622
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 2: Trump is better for business, whether it's big business or

623
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: a small business. How does the Harris campaign counter that

624
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: messaging when she is floating things like higher corporate tax

625
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: rates in the like.

626
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 11: I think you have to put the Trump economy in context.

627
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 11: That's one of the things they're working on. I mean,

628
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 11: he grew the economy about two point five percent. That's

629
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 11: excluding his COVID year that's going to break on that one.

630
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 11: That's pretty much the same as what Obama did two

631
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 11: point four percent his last term, except Obama created more

632
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 11: jobs fifteen thousand per month. And so it's not like

633
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 11: Trump did anything dramatically to change the course of the economy,

634
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 11: just continued for what he'd had and then what people

635
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 11: remember when we did the polling was the two Covis

636
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 11: checks to get on the Trump with Trump's name on them.

637
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 11: So that's a one time thing. You have to explain

638
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 11: that to people like, yes, you got those checks and

639
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 11: you were able to stop working for a while, which

640
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 11: of course contributed to inflation as well. That's over with.

641
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 11: And to do that, he cut taxes but created eight

642
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 11: point four trillion onto the deficit. So put all that

643
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 11: in context, that's a one time era. What's as good

644
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 11: as people are saying it was, I'm going to do better.

645
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 3: We've learned today that Michelle Obama is going to be

646
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 3: stumping for the Harris campaign, in fact has a date

647
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 3: set now October twenty nine in Atlanta. This appears to

648
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 3: be the real closing argument is the first lady, the

649
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 3: most powerful surrogate, Kamala Harris, has to reach young black men.

650
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 11: She certainly has to be among the most powerful. She's

651
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 11: respected by everyone, and so to the extent she's out there,

652
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 11: that's great. At the President of MOMAS out there as well,

653
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 11: But collectively, they had to get their message out on

654
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 11: the actual ECONRA. All these programs that we've been talking about,

655
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 11: these are real, we can get them funded. You'll be

656
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 11: able to buy a home, you can start a business.

657
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 11: We're want to put an ESOP program, so if you're

658
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 11: working for a big company, you can have some stock

659
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 11: own ownership. The list of things that she had in

660
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 11: that paper that they put out, heead about twenty ideas

661
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 11: in there. If you did half of those, that's going

662
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 11: to help a lot of people, including a lot of

663
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 11: black men.

664
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 6: Charles.

665
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: As we have this conversation and look ahead twenty days

666
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: to election day, it is worth pointing out the election

667
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: already has begun. People are voting in a number of states,

668
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: including Georgia, where early voting began with record turnout yesterday

669
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 2: of more than two hundred and fifty thousand people. So

670
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: how much is this about the turnout game? About encouraging

671
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 2: some of these very same voters we're talking about to

672
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: not sit on the sidelines, actually go out and put

673
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: that ballot in the boxer or however you want to

674
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: phrase it, to get them to show up.

675
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 11: That's where all the attention on the stories can benefit

676
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 11: by specially enter. If you get people to actually pay attention,

677
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 11: to get excited about the election, feel like they have

678
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 11: a stake in it, they won't have a say and

679
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 11: go vote. Higher turnout will help her among black man

680
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 11: and black communi in general, with all groups, and so

681
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 11: I do think she has an advantage if people actually

682
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 11: go out and vote.

683
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 3: How should Kamala Harris be spending her time in the

684
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: next twenty days here? We've been using the term closing

685
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: arguments a lot this week. We have no more debates.

686
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 3: Is it actually being on the ground in the swing

687
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 3: states talking to the voters that we're describing here today, Charles,

688
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 3: Is it being on the air doing more interviews or both?

689
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,439
Speaker 11: I think she has to do both. She is doing both,

690
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 11: and I can't imagine how or tired day must be.

691
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 11: But she's doing all the major media outlets. She has

692
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 11: more their coming than I'm told. But she's on the

693
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 11: ground going from state the state as well. But also

694
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 11: they built a pretty big infrastructure without her in all

695
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 11: these states, with surrogates as well, So she's doing everything

696
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 11: she can do. I just hope people are listening.

697
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: Tell her we'd love to talk to her.

698
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, she has a standing in to do one of

699
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: those interviews here on Bloomberg, sir, but thank you for

700
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: participating in one with us. It was great to talk

701
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: to you appreciate your time. Charles Phillips, co founder and

702
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 2: managing partner of Recognize and co chair of the Black

703
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 2: Economic Alliance, thank you very much, speaking today as a

704
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 2: surrogate for the Harris campaign. Now, as we have seen

705
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 2: this media blitz on her behalf, as Charles was just discussing,

706
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: and on Donald Trump's for that matter, we want to

707
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 2: turn back to our political panel to talk about this strategy.

708
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 2: Genie Shanzano, Senior Democracy Fellow with the Center for the

709
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 2: Study of the Presidency and Congress, alongside Rick Davis Stone

710
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: Court Capital Partner. So, Genie, he's talking there about how

711
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: she has more media interviews on the book. Certainly she

712
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: is doing more today and I do wonder if one

713
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 2: in particular interview today, this interview on Fox is going

714
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 2: to be the highest stakes and highest degree of difficulty

715
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 2: one that she could face, or has faced up to

716
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: this point, and will face going forward.

717
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 12: Yeah, it very well could be. This is a really

718
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 12: important test for her. So far, A lot of the

719
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 12: interviews she's had done, not all of them, but a

720
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,959
Speaker 12: lot of them have been friendly, with a friendly interviewer

721
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 12: and a friendly platform. That is not to say that

722
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 12: Brett Barry is going to be unfriendly, a very nice gentleman,

723
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 12: but he's gonna be tough, and so she does have

724
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 12: high stakes here. It is I couldn't agree more with Charles.

725
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 12: It is very important she is doing these and quite frankly,

726
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 12: she should have been doing them earlier. You know, this

727
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 12: is what people have been calling for.

728
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 13: There is no.

729
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 12: Reason and Pete Buddha Judge has showed us this that

730
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 12: Democrats need to stay away from Fox. That goes back

731
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 12: to you know, these early campaigns where Democrats agreed not

732
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 12: to debate on Fox, and it's persistent. It is a

733
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 12: bad move because you leave a part, a big part

734
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 12: of the country. And so I'm happy she's made this decision.

735
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 3: Interesting conversation we heard earlier today on Bloomberg TV and

736
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 3: Radio that we brought you with Stanley Druckenmiller Rick. He said,

737
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 3: gun to his hett. He thinks Donald Trump wins. In

738
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: the last twelve days, the market very convinced that Donald

739
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 3: Trump is going to win, although he's not voting himself.

740
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: And we learned today that Elon Musk has dumped another

741
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 3: seventy five million dollars into the super pack supporting Donald Trump.

742
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 3: Miriam Adelson gave ninety five million dollars to the Preserve

743
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 3: America pack, bringing her donations into the nine figure zone.

744
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 3: Are we going to look back at this period of

745
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 3: time as the moment when Donald Trump regained the lead?

746
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 8: You know, it's hard to tell.

747
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 14: I mean, you know, I read the Emerson pole come

748
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 14: out this morning that has Harris up, and I'm talking

749
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 14: about a national poll.

750
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 8: So forgive me.

751
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 14: This is we must be get it close, you know,

752
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 14: but five points ahead of Trump on a national survey

753
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 14: with likely voters, which is basically where most of the

754
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 14: pundits have been saying she needs to be in order

755
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 14: to translate that into a victory into these targeted states.

756
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 14: So I think it's I think Stanley Ruckamel was right.

757
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 14: It's a very hard thing to figure out. He said

758
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 14: he was watching the markets to figure it out, watching

759
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 14: survey data. We all have our you know, sort of crutches.

760
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 14: But the bottom line on it is is right now,

761
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 14: it's about turnout and and and that's where the Elon

762
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 14: Musk bunny comes in. I mean, that's seventy five million

763
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,959
Speaker 14: dollars to do. Canvassing, get out the vote? It's it's there.

764
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 14: The Trump campaign is doing something that's incredibly risky, has

765
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 14: not ever proven to be effective, which is contracting out

766
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 14: your own get out the vote victory programs, and and

767
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 14: and they're they're contracting with a firm that you know,

768
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 14: did this for Ron de Santis in Iowa. He got

769
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 14: all of twenty percent, not even half of what Donald

770
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 14: Trump got in Iowa.

771
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 8: So why they would go to this model, I don't know.

772
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 14: I assume it means there are financial problems with the

773
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 14: RNC and the Trump campaign and so they needed this

774
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 14: kind of capacity. But just to put it into scale,

775
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 14: Kamala Harris's victory pack has six and ninety million dollars

776
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 14: in it. So I don't even think it's, you know,

777
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 14: like a motivational thing anymore. It's going to be just

778
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 14: the mechanics of trying to get the people you've already identified,

779
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 14: and if you haven't identified them by now as being

780
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 14: your supporters, then you're flying blind. And then it's just

781
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 14: your turning out folks in a zip code that you

782
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 14: hope have more Republicans and Democrats.

783
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 8: So I think it's actually the opposite.

784
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 14: I would put my money on someone who built the

785
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 14: state offices, who hired thousands of people to work on

786
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 14: them who've been doing it now for six months. And

787
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 14: that might have been the best gift that Biden gave

788
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 14: to the Harris campaign was a focus on on on

789
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 14: local organization.

790
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 2: Well, and does that local organization show up before actual

791
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: election day or the tallying of the votes? Genie, We've

792
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time talking about how the resources

793
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,959
Speaker 2: at the Harris campaign's disposal haven't translated into the kind

794
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 2: of bumping and polling that you might expect to see

795
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: if you were running a ton of ads for months.

796
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: But is it because we haven't actually seen the effect

797
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: of the money fully showing up yet?

798
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 12: Yeah, we have not, and that is, you know, so frustrating,

799
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 12: I'm sure to the Harris campaign that said we always

800
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 12: knew this was going to be a close election.

801
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 13: But can we just go back for a second to

802
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 13: the Elon Musk money.

803
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 12: Wasn't the idea with Donald Trump when he rose on

804
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 12: the political scene that he came with his own money

805
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 12: and so he wasn't beholden to anyone. Yesterday he's talking

806
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 12: to John Mickleswaye about appointing Elon Musk with all this

807
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 12: fundraising to head deregulation, to head government cutting, which creates

808
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 12: something of a conflict of interest, right, because Elon Musk

809
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 12: runs companies like SpaceX and Tesla, so he would in

810
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 12: fact be in charge of the commission. I suspect of

811
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 12: the very federal agencies were supposed to regulate him. And

812
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 12: so the very reason that many voters turned to Donald Trump,

813
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 12: because he wasn't going to be beholden to those folks

814
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 12: in the swamp as he called it of Washington, d C,

815
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 12: seems to have turned in the midst of all of

816
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 12: his legal troubles. So that is something that we don't

817
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 12: hear a lot about, but certainly should be raised in

818
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 12: this context.

819
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I suspect we'll hear a bit more about.

820
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 3: Interesting when it comes to the money, though, Rick, you

821
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 3: were making a really important point yesterday in our special

822
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: coverage of the Trump interview. In our remaining moment, you

823
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 3: don't just need money for the election anymore. You need

824
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 3: money for the legal fight that starts the day after.

825
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 8: Yeah.

826
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 14: One, hundreds of millions of dollars were spent in the

827
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 14: ensuing two months after the election in twenty twenty, protecting

828
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 14: the ballots that were already done, doing recounts, hiring lawyers,

829
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 14: to prosecute over sixty lawsuits on Trump's behalf. All that

830
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 14: had to be paid for somehow, all the strategists. You

831
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 14: keep the campaign fully staffed just in case you need

832
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 14: to turn out a protest or show up at a

833
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,720
Speaker 14: precinct somewhere to watch a recount. I mean, it's really

834
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 14: significant and so money matters.

835
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 3: Rick Davis and Genie Shanzino, our signature panel, We thank

836
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 3: you as always. On the fastest show in politics is Bloomberg.

837
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens

838
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

839
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: Ronoo with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen

840
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

841
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

842
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 3: They shouldn't be checking shares of McDonald's, I feel like,

843
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 3: and they're not really moving much today despite the news

844
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 3: Gosh barely lowered. We're down eleven cents at the moment.

845
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 3: As CNN reports Donald Trump is going behind the counter.

846
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 3: I haven't had a chance to mention this today with

847
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 3: the Drug and Miller interview and our Deep Dive with

848
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 3: Wendy Benjaminson, CNN reports Donald Trump will visit a McDonald's

849
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 3: Sunday in Pennsylvania and will quote work the fry cooker unquote.

850
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 3: I'm guessing he doesn't do the paper hat. Maybe he

851
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 3: puts on the apron, but he will be making fries.

852
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 3: So we're going to see video potentially this weekend of

853
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 3: Donald Trump reaching out the drive through window with the fries.

854
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 6: I don't know.

855
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 3: The headset with the mic, a source familiar with the

856
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 3: matter telling CNN. This comes as Trump has repeatedly claimed

857
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 3: Vice President Kamala Harris never actually worked at McDonald's. You know,

858
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 3: that's part of her life story, right, work the fry

859
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 3: cooker at McDonald's. Maybe this will come up on Fox later.

860
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 3: I don't know about this whole thing. Donald Trump at McDonald's.

861
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 3: We know he loves the fast food. Wonder maybe is

862
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 3: it possible he sent Big Max to Vladimir Putin because

863
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 3: McDonald's is not in Russia anymore. I remind you, after

864
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 3: the whole Ukraine invasion, they had to sell the local

865
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 3: license there to pull out, so you can't actually get

866
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 3: a Big Mac now in Russia. I had to go

867
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 3: back and look at this producer James was investigating this

868
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 3: for us. The Big mac has become the big hit,

869
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: that's what they call it. They're not allowed to use

870
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 3: the special sauce either, So now McDonald's is like McDowell's

871
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 3: or something. The d arching is James mentioned. I bring

872
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 3: all this up because Donald Trump was asked about Vladimir

873
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 3: Putin yesterday. Remember this report from Bob Woodwards said he

874
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 3: sent COVID tests when nobody else could get him. Here

875
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 3: the questions about their relationship and whether they're still in

876
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: touch since Donald Trump left the White House. This was

877
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 3: part of our interview conducted by Bloomberg's editor in chief

878
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 3: John Micklethwaite. Let's go back to yesterday and the former president.

879
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 5: Listen, Well, I don't comment on that, but I will

880
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 5: tell you that if I did, it's a smart thing.

881
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 5: If I'm friendly with people, if I have a relationship

882
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 5: with people, that's a good thing. I think in terms

883
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 5: of a country, he's got two thousand nuclear weapons, and

884
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,959
Speaker 5: so do we. China has a lot less, but they'll

885
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 5: catch us within five years.

886
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 3: That's where we start with our panel. Janie Shanzano is

887
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 3: with us, and Rick Davis, of course Bloomberg Politics contributors.

888
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 3: They were with us for the throwdown. Yesterday is Chicago,

889
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 3: and they're back today. Genie is of course political science

890
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 3: professor at Iona University, Rick Davis's partner at stone Court Capital.

891
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 3: Now that we all want big Max Genie, anybody tried

892
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 3: that Chicken Big Mac?

893
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:31,959
Speaker 6: I haven't done that yet.

894
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 3: Does Donald Trump me to clean up the remarks about

895
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 3: Vadimir Putin and President she because he made it sound

896
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 3: like he's spent in touch with the leader of Russia

897
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 3: since he left the White House.

898
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 13: He sure did. I mean, it was something of a

899
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 13: train wreck.

900
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 12: This is the same person who just after Bob Woodward's

901
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 12: revelations came out, called Bob Woodward drained said he made

902
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 12: up the story about.

903
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 13: The communication with Putin, and then.

904
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 12: Yesterday when asked he seemed to suggest, as John mcklesway said,

905
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 12: that that was the truth, and when he was asked

906
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 12: about that, he just went on that it would be

907
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 12: a good thing. So he absolutely does need to clean

908
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 12: it up. And I think more important in this is

909
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 12: the COVID part of this story. That you referenced the

910
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 12: idea that we had so many people suffering here and

911
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 12: he was sending precious COVID equipment to Putin, his friend,

912
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 12: who I guess after he's left office he is kept

913
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 12: in touch with. It is a problem for him, and

914
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 12: it is something he should clean up. But I don't

915
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 12: think you should hold your breath.

916
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 6: Rick.

917
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 3: The line from Donald Trump was I don't comment on that,

918
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 3: as we just heard. Buddy will tell you that if

919
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 3: I did, it's a smart thing. A lot of people

920
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 3: took that to assume that he is talking to Vladimir Putin,

921
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:48,959
Speaker 3: if it would be a smart thing. Is he wrong there?

922
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 8: Well, first, let me say kudos to John mickleswayt.

923
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 14: He did a excellent job in this interview, proven by

924
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:01,479
Speaker 14: the massive amount of news that Bloomberg has gotten off

925
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 14: of that interview. And and so it's very telling. Uh

926
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 14: So I've done my sucking up. Uh now, let me

927
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 14: get into your warm up. You're definitely on the weave,

928
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 14: you know. Donald Trump described these wandering, weird ways of

929
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 14: getting to a point and actually never getting to the point.

930
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 8: We just saw. We've come right through there. I mean,

931
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 8: it's amazing.

932
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 14: We start with fries and go to burgers, I mean,

933
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 14: you know, and.

934
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 8: Then we wind up with Putin.

935
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 14: Look, it's just not consistent, right, I'm I'm not going

936
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 14: to say whether or not I talked to Putin, But

937
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 14: here's my story about five other world leaders I talked

938
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 14: to who gave me intimate stories about details of how

939
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 14: they're screwing the United States. All the stories about our

940
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 14: allies were negative, all the stories about.

941
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 8: Our enemies were positive.

942
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 14: I mean, like the symmetry there is just incredible, right.

943
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 14: So yeah, he'll he'll, he'll tell you the private details

944
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 14: of you know, his Merkele conversations about, you know, not

945
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 14: allowing cars to be exported into Germany, which actually turned

946
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 14: out to be not true.

947
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 8: But he won't tell you whether or not he's talking

948
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 8: to Vladimir Putin. Yeah, I just went on and on.

949
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 8: I mean, honestly, it was like dizzying. But when you're

950
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 8: caught in the weave, you're caught in the weave. There's

951
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 8: not much you can do.

952
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: Apparently it's contagious. Genie the mcshrimp is a Russian McDonald's exclusive.

953
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 3: I'm reading here for the first time golden leaf fried

954
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 3: on the outside with an interesting preference for a thousand

955
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 3: island dressing as a sauce over the traditional tartar. Now

956
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 3: with that in mind, I ask you, is it smart

957
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 3: for Donald Trump to get behind the friolator at McDonald's

958
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 3: this weekend.

959
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 13: Joe Matthew, are you hungry today? That's what I'm sensing here.

960
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 3: I'm dying in here.

961
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 13: Bring them in some food, you know.

962
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 12: I feel like in some ways this has been in

963
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 12: McDonald's election. We had to hear about Kamala Harris working

964
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,720
Speaker 12: at McDonald's. Now we are hearing about Donald Trump visiting McDonald's.

965
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 12: I don't know if you and Rick worked at McDonald's.

966
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 12: I did not, but apparently this is something that they

967
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 12: think is going to appeal to these undecided voters.

968
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 13: And I think Elizabeth just said.

969
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 12: On the IB that Clinton was out of McDonald's, So

970
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 12: I don't think that's new for Clinton. But you know,

971
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 12: this is where we are today, so I guess we

972
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 12: all have to head out to McDonald's now.

973
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 3: Bill Clinton's the one who taught us that it's okay

974
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 3: to eat at McDonald's before you go running. Rick, would

975
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 3: you push your candidate behind a big vat of hot oil.

976
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 8: Adam McDonald's. You mean, yes, yeah, sure, absolutely.

977
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 14: We've done a lot of sort of behind the counter

978
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 14: flipping pancakes, making eggs, flopping burgers, but rarely have we

979
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 14: raised it to the level of the battle of the burger,

980
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 14: where you know, the bona fides of who's stronger on

981
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 14: McDonald's is somehow going to sway voters. Look, it's a

982
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 14: battle over the middle class to a battle over the

983
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 14: working class, and I guess McDonald's is just in this

984
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 14: election become the symbol of you know, what you eat

985
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 14: and where you work if you want to connect with

986
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 14: the middle class. I think it's all optics. I don't

987
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 14: think there's any meat in that burger. But the reality

988
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,800
Speaker 14: of it is, you know, you're not going to stop

989
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 14: Donald Trump from getting in there. It'll be interesting to

990
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 14: see how long he stays or what music they'll be

991
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,240
Speaker 14: playing in the McDonald's when he arrives.

992
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 3: That's a great point. Where's the beef, Genie. I'm surprised

993
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 3: Rick didn't call it a nothing burger. It does bring

994
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 3: us in the middle of a media blitz. Kamala Harris

995
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 3: is going to be on Fox News later. Maybe they'll

996
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 3: talk about the frya later. Donald Trump speaking to women

997
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 3: in a town hall on Fox earlier today. They can't

998
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 3: seem to get enough. Although you might have heard Donald

999
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 3: Trump skipped out on an interview yesterday morning on the

1000
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 3: other network. I guess there are exceptions to the rule here,

1001
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 3: but it seems Genie, they can't do enough of these interviews,

1002
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 3: and in the case of Kamala Harris not with a

1003
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 3: friendly crowd. What does that tell you about the time

1004
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 3: we're at beyond the pane that this is a tide race.

1005
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 12: You know, first of all, Donald Trump's interviews a train

1006
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 12: wreck yesterday on the economy at Bloomberg. You know, look

1007
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 12: at how he did the dancing and the night before,

1008
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 12: and then look at yesterday speaking to women with Harris

1009
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 12: Faulkner in Georgia, and he is talking about himself as

1010
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 12: the father of IVF.

1011
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 13: So this is where he is in this election cycle.

1012
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,280
Speaker 12: He is desperate to appeal to women on an issue

1013
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 12: he knows is a huge problem for him, and it

1014
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 12: is not going well, is probably the best way to

1015
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 12: say it.

1016
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 13: So I think skipping that interview yesterday.

1017
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 12: May have been a very good thing, but he's going

1018
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,919
Speaker 12: to do more work because I think when you look

1019
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 12: at the reproductive issue at healthcare overall, if Donald Trump

1020
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 12: has challenges in these swing states, it is going to

1021
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 12: be that issue and that issue alone, which makes his

1022
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 12: life pretty miserable.

1023
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 13: On November fifth, Wow.

1024
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 3: How about that? It's Brett Beher doing the interview on

1025
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 3: Fox News. What's this experience going to be like for

1026
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 3: Kamala Harris Rick? We were framing this yesterday as kind

1027
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 3: of the two last tent polls. Donald Trump on Bloomberg,

1028
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 3: Kamala Harris on Fox? Does she make news later or

1029
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 3: is she playing defense for an hour?

1030
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 4: No?

1031
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 8: I think she's gonna lean in.

1032
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 14: If she's smart, she's gonna have a couple of news

1033
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 14: items to plunt down and get on the offense. But

1034
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 14: Brett Behar will drill her down on that. He's a

1035
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 14: very good interviewer. And remember, I mean, you know, when

1036
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 14: Brett Baar did his interview of Donald Trump, it was combative,

1037
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 14: you know, so everyone thought, oh, this is going to

1038
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:50,240
Speaker 14: be great Donald Trump. Another TV interview on Fox Brett

1039
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 14: Baar would be great. Brett Bhar ate his lunch. I

1040
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 14: think you can only assume he's going to try to

1041
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 14: do the same thing here. He's got his own reputation

1042
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 14: to brandish, and she's going to have to survive it.

1043
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,919
Speaker 14: Trump did not survive the battle in Chicago with John

1044
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 14: Michelswayt The question tonight is will will Kamala Harris survive

1045
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 14: her battle on Fox with Brett Bhaer.

1046
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 3: What's your expectation, Genie, And does she need to make news?

1047
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 3: She could in fact make a new agreement with Fox

1048
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 3: all over again and do a debate and send it

1049
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 3: back to Donald Trump. Does she speak to him directly

1050
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 3: through the camera tonight?

1051
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 13: You know, I don't know.

1052
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,399
Speaker 12: If she speaks to him, but she has certainly said

1053
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,720
Speaker 12: very clearly she's open to a debate on Fox.

1054
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 13: I think she should challenge him to that.

1055
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 11: Again.

1056
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 12: We know Fox is already there with her on that

1057
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 12: he is scared to debate her. But I think, you know,

1058
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,439
Speaker 12: Kamala Harris, when she has had tough interviews, has done

1059
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 12: better than expected. So you know, there is an old

1060
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 12: adage that the friendlier interviews are sometimes the toughest, So

1061
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 12: I think that is true. So if I had to guess,

1062
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 12: I think she will overperform tonight in this interview. And

1063
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 12: that is a good thing because she needs to appeal

1064
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 12: to the kind of people who watch Fox News, and

1065
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 12: she needs to try to pull some of those folks

1066
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 12: from the moderate middle over to her side in these

1067
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 12: swing states.

1068
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 13: So I think this is a win win for her.

1069
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 13: Quite frankly, she should have.

1070
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 12: Been doing these kinds of interviews since she got into

1071
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 12: the race three months ago.

1072
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 3: If we had Rick the one more debate, would closing

1073
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 3: arguments already be underway as it feels now?

1074
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 14: Oh yeah, closing arguments are underway. You know, we're in

1075
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 14: the three week stretch. You know, halfway through the first

1076
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 14: week of that. You can see already the campaigns kind

1077
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 14: of you know, focusing their attention on certain constituencies. Well,

1078
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 14: at least we can document that a little better. With

1079
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 14: the Harris campaign, they've got a little more discipline, focused

1080
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 14: on young people, young blacks, you know, trying to get

1081
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 14: them out right now, there's a low enthusiasm gap with

1082
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 14: these voters that the Democrats need to make up their

1083
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 14: coalition complete.

1084
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 8: So yeah, we're in the closing argument.

1085
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 3: Now as we speak with Rick Davis and Genie Shanzeo

1086
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 3: the mix shrimp you can get it as a side

1087
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 3: as well, James says, you can substitute the fries in

1088
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 3: any combo for shrimp. That's what they're doing in Russia.

1089
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make

1090
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