1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's officially summer, and that 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: means it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing, 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: where our staff shares their favorite episodes in our Summer 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: Staff series. Next up is our engineer Frank Imperial. 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: Thanks Alec. When trying to choose one of my favorite 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: episodes from the archives, it didn't take long to land 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: on Mick Fleetwood, the drummer of Fleetwood Mac. It's one 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: of the most popular episodes in our history. With good reason. 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: Here's Alex's twenty twenty one conversation with Mick Fleetwood. 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 3: You say we want agree? 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: That is, of course Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. Thanks to 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: a TikTok of some guy on a skateboard who goes 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: by the name Dogface lip syncing to this song and 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: his seventy two million views, Fleetwood Mac's album Rumors broke 16 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: through Rolling Stone's top one hundred list again last year, 17 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: more than forty years after its release. My guest today 18 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: is Mick Fleetwood, a founding member of Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood 19 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: Mac existed for nearly a decade before the lineup. We 20 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: think of today with Mick Fleetwood, John mcvee, Lindsey Buckingham, 21 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: Christine McVie and Stevie Nicks. But when Fleetwood Mac formed 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 1: in London in the late nineteen sixties, it was Peter 23 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: Green's idea. 24 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 4: Well, I would be remiss. Peter Green start at Fleetwood Mac, 25 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 4: the original guitar player. I was at his right hand side, 26 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 4: John McVie. All of us have played in the band 27 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 4: called John Male's Blues Breakers, Eric McK taylor, Peter Green. 28 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 4: And I'm saying that because they would represent great guitar 29 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 4: players that came out of that band that have more 30 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 4: than made their mark in my world. And so Peter 31 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 4: asked me to play drums. Already had played with them 32 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 4: in a funny band with Rod Stewart for a short while, 33 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 4: so we won't go into that. So it was really 34 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 4: a team of people that Peter John McVie especially came 35 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 4: out of a pedigree which was absolute devotion to an 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 4: art form, the blues. And really all our heroes were 37 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 4: American blues artists. And you are well aware I can 38 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 4: tell about the irony of a bunch of funny little 39 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 4: white kids in England really preserving an art form that 40 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 4: had long since been you know, I won't use the 41 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 4: bad word, but you know, pooped on by the American 42 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 4: sort of glossing over of something that was so evident. 43 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 4: So we were all from that framework, and when we 44 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 4: formed Fleetwood Mac, it was all about our lovely, semi 45 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 4: innocent way of emulating our heroes. And if you listen 46 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 4: to the first few albums that we before Peter especially 47 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 4: started really writing, like when you look at early Rolling Stones, 48 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 4: it's Bo Diddley and Chuck Berry and with anyone, you 49 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 4: see the development into self expression, and that's what transpired afterward. 50 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 4: But the original band was all about that and a 51 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 4: little team of people sharing something and having a lot 52 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 4: of fun with it, you know, creatively that turned into 53 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 4: something a little bit more than we ever could have 54 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 4: possibly have imagined. 55 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: The year that you formed the band with Green, what 56 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: year was that? 57 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 4: Nineteen sixty seven Windsor Jazz Festival, and the band was 58 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 4: called Fleetwood Mac by Peter Green, who could have very 59 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 4: easily become the Jeff Beck or the Jimmy Page or 60 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 4: the Eric Clapton gunslinger guitar player. That's a whole nother story, 61 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 4: is a lovely story, and an attribute to Peter's generosity. 62 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 4: We played the Windsor Jazz Festival intended as you can tell, 63 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 4: with the name of Fleetwood Mac the name was my 64 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 4: name and John McVie, which Peter chose, and John was 65 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 4: still playing in John Mayle's Blues Breakers on the same show. 66 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 4: Watched the band he's supposed to be in from from 67 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 4: the side of the stage, and about three months later 68 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 4: he joined. He's a Scotsman, so he's very thrifty with 69 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 4: whatever amount of money he does have. So when we 70 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 4: had enough gigs, he said, I'm ready to join, which. 71 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: Was when you've made it worth my while. 72 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, it worth my way. 73 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: I know there'll be no net loss in my income. 74 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: I join you. I'll meet you there at the club. 75 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. And that's what happened. 76 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: And when you say that Green could have been in 77 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: this pantheon of great guitar players, was this something he 78 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: didn't want, that he did not want that level of 79 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: fame and that level of attention. 80 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 4: No, it was very evident. And the end story, which 81 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 4: of course went into a very changed person. He was 82 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 4: my dearest of dearest of friends and my mentor. You know, 83 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 4: he gave me so much encouragement as a player and 84 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 4: super fun person, but unbelievably deep down, way more sensitive 85 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 4: than a bunch of chaps, including himself, had ever realized. 86 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 4: And he eventually became sick and so came to a 87 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 4: sort of journey that was for a while was a 88 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 4: living tragedy for me selfishly, but then you learned to 89 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 4: accept him as he turned out. But back then everything 90 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 4: he did was about being just really generous. And I 91 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 4: read an article after you know, you think, well, what 92 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 4: was the real story? And for instance would be that 93 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 4: someone asked him why was the bank or fleet with 94 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 4: Mac and he said, well, I figured at that point 95 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 4: i'd broken up with my lovely girlfriend Jenny, who I 96 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 4: later married, and I had played with Peter, and he 97 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 4: had his eyes on another drummer as a turned out, 98 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 4: and he said, why did you pick Mick? And of 99 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 4: course my little less than self would have thought, well, 100 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 4: maybe you thought I was a good drummer, you know. 101 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 4: And what it was, he said, I wanted Mick to 102 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 4: play the drums cause I got so fed up with 103 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 4: seeing him so sad that I thought it would give 104 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 4: him something to do. And I thought that was the 105 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 4: greatest thing that you could ever hear from a lovely friend, 106 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 4: and that really sums it up about how it was 107 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 4: not about him, and he created a platform which served me. 108 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: Well. 109 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 4: My father was an Air Force chap so the word 110 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 4: to serve, to serve, well, that's what I think I 111 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 4: learned to do with all of how the madness of 112 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 4: this band and the incarnates of just are you kidding 113 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 4: me that if you wrote this down, you say, it's 114 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 4: not possible this bunch could possibly have survived with all 115 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 4: of the ups and downs and character changes and changing 116 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 4: the script as you go along, and yet there's still 117 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 4: a story. Peter started that and handed that to me. 118 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 4: I think when he welcomed everyone, including me, Danny Kerwin 119 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 4: who joined the original band, Jeremy Spencer, they were all 120 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 4: there so that Peter did not want to be king 121 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 4: Tut in the front there taking all the limelight, and 122 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 4: I think it was way more meaningful in sense of 123 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 4: where he came from. It's just he wanted to be 124 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 4: in a band, and he created that band and made 125 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:35,559 Speaker 4: sure the band was not called Peter Greens anything, because 126 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 4: he could of very easily, and I always thank him 127 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 4: for that. The name Fleetwood Mac he was asked and 128 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 4: he said, well, I always thought that I would probably 129 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 4: move on, which he did under very strange circumstances, unfortunately 130 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 4: for us. And he said I wanted Mick and John 131 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 4: to have something. And I saw and heard this interview 132 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 4: years and years and years and years later, like finding 133 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 4: out a family relative will tell you what the real 134 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 4: story was, and sometimes it's mind blowing and sometimes it's 135 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 4: hugely moving and gratifying to hear. And that was one 136 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 4: of them. 137 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: You didn't start drumming till you were thirteen, correct. 138 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 4: Officially, but yeah, I would say I started hitting furniture 139 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 4: when I was about eight. 140 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: What changed when you were thirteen that you were like, 141 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: I want a drum now? On a serious level, what changed? 142 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 5: Oh? 143 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 4: I would think that first of all, being completely on 144 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 4: some shape or form, completely dyslexic, and had not one 145 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 4: iota of any academic prowess whatsoever at school. So there 146 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 4: I was struggling with great parents. So I never felt 147 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 4: threatened or less than that. I couldn't. I still don't 148 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 4: know my alphabet or I mean, if my whole family 149 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 4: was lined up, God forbid and said. 150 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: You don't have to. 151 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, well I know, but a lot of people say 152 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 4: you're kidding me. It's a lot of people say about 153 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 4: what I do when I play drums. I said, actually, 154 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 4: I sort of really don't know what I'm doing, to 155 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 4: tell you the real truth, and they go, well, it's not. 156 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 4: Then they start arguing with you, go, how can you 157 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 4: do that? You're full of shit? You know, you know? 158 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 4: I said, no, no, it just comes out. I have 159 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 4: no idea, so I blundered into it. But I would 160 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 4: think that the love and the one thing that I 161 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 4: could grab onto was the fact that I for some reason, 162 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 4: I used to play tapping on furniture, which I mentioned 163 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 4: to back in Norway when I was much younger and 164 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 4: we'd traveled to Egypt. So I remember these leather little 165 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 4: funny we call them tufto's or something, things stuffed with 166 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 4: newspaper that sound really cool their leather. They're the sort 167 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 4: of Ottoman things. And I Mum would listen to the 168 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 4: home service and do the cleaning and have a Dubonne 169 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 4: and have a one cigarette of the day. This is 170 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 4: when I was probably about six or seven in Norway, 171 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 4: and I remember listening to the radio and tapping on 172 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 4: I don't know why on furniture, but Daddy used to 173 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 4: tap on coins and do military things in his pocket, 174 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 4: and he would play bottles with water in them at parties. 175 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 4: So I vaguely remember that. I don't think that's why 176 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 4: I did it, but I think my quantum leap was 177 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 4: a blessing and it was like a divine intervention of 178 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 4: sorts that the one thing I loved doing. I had 179 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 4: this obsession with collecting drum catalogs and fantasies of gold 180 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 4: and sparkling instruments that you were in my dream. So 181 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 4: at boarding school the last thing I did, I had 182 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 4: this whole package filled with brushures that opened one to 183 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 4: the other, and I think I saw my way out. 184 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 4: And when Dad said do you want to go to college, 185 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 4: and he didn't have any money, but he was obviously 186 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 4: making it available for me, and with tears in our eyes, 187 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 4: and I said, Daddy, I want to go to London 188 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 4: and play drums. And by that time I had had 189 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 4: my little drum kit, almost a toy drum kit, in 190 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 4: the house. And I think it was my learning disability 191 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 4: that drove me. By some happen sence, both my sisters 192 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 4: went into the arts. One was a very fine actress, 193 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 4: Susan with the Royal Shakespeare Company, and my elder sister 194 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 4: was an art student at the Polytechnic, so we were 195 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 4: all completely academically useless. So I had the blessing that 196 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 4: Mom and dad said, then, my god, it's probably the 197 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 4: only one thing he really thinks he can do. And 198 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 4: that was he encouraged you absolutely just I had complete 199 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 4: and utter, not one iota of any cynicism whatsoever, and 200 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 4: they sent me off with a drum kit to London 201 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,599 Speaker 4: wrapped in a blanket. My father wrote a poem about. 202 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: It, mckfleetwood. If you love conversations with iconic musicians who 203 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: also happen to be members of long lasting bands, be 204 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,119 Speaker 1: sure to check out my conversation with The Who's legendary 205 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: frontman Roger Daltrey from our archives. Daughtrey talked about the 206 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: first time he swung a microphone around on stage. No 207 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: one told me. I got used to myself once they. 208 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 5: Went into the free form in the early days in 209 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 5: the late sixties. It just came out of boredom I was. 210 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 5: I couldn't stand there and be like Robert Plant. I 211 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 5: wasn't cool enough. I just needed to dance, So I 212 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 5: didn't want to dance like an ordinary dancer. So I 213 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 5: just started to play with it and it just got 214 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 5: bigger and energy and channel the energy. And then Pete 215 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 5: started jumping and that legendary jump of him. He's like 216 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 5: a kangaroo. And but the whole thing was kind of 217 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 5: in with the music. It became like a ballet, didn't it. 218 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 5: It was kind of extraordinary. 219 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: Here the rest of my conversation with Roger Daltrey and 220 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: here's the Thing dot Org. After the break we talk 221 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: about the women who became essential to the group's sound. 222 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 223 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: That's Christine mcvee performing the Songbird. Mcvee joined Fleetwood Mac 224 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy when Peter Green left. She'd married John 225 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: mcvee a couple of years before. Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie 226 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 1: Nicks joined in nineteen seventy five. I wanted to know 227 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: if when Christine joined there was any pressure to include 228 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: a woman. 229 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 4: Well, Christine, for sure, any lovely lady out that would 230 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 4: not take it wrong. She was a musician, and she 231 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 4: was a great piano player, and her experience was already 232 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 4: integrated with being I'm a player and It was nothing 233 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 4: of the sort that it was a woman or a man. 234 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 4: It was just who you are and what you do. Truly, 235 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 4: it was that and she cherishes that to this day 236 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 4: because we call her the rock. 237 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: You know. 238 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 4: She's like, she doesn't rely on anything other than no 239 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 4: prissy stuff. I am who I am, and am I 240 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 4: delivering what you need? And she has that respect. So 241 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 4: she came into the band as a player, literally, and 242 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 4: there was no thought she knew John, which had nothing 243 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:40,479 Speaker 4: to do with it. 244 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: Is your name really perfect? Is it Christine perfect? Yeah? 245 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 4: And John would say she was perfect before she married me. 246 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: Well, Jack, So. 247 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 4: That was really it. It was not about having a 248 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 4: lady in the bout we need a girl, No, it 249 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 4: was about really really great musician, bloody good piano player. 250 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: Let me just say, let me interject this because it's true, 251 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: which is that in that world there is nobody who 252 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: casts on me like Christine mcne I mean, I love 253 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: her singing beyond believe. I mean she does something to 254 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: me that I can't even describe. She's her bir singing 255 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: is so beautiful, you. 256 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 4: Know, So I can second that, right right, right. 257 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: So she's with you in the band, and then you 258 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: decide to have another woman join the band. So Buckingham, 259 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: you asked him to join the band. 260 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, Bob Welch had left at rather short notice, and 261 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 4: I knew Bob extremely well, really lovely, hugely interesting chap. 262 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 4: So he left. But prior to that, I've been in 263 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 4: the studio sound City to try and find a studio 264 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 4: to record the next album with Fleetwood. Matt he leaves 265 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 4: and I meet Stevie and Lindsay after the fact, having 266 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 4: heard Keith played to demonstrate the studio part of the 267 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 4: Buckham Nick Nick's album that he'd made with them, the album, 268 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 4: and then Bob left. Then I made a phone call 269 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 4: and I said, you know that music you were playing? 270 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 4: Who What? 271 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 6: How? 272 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 4: And you're right, I was looking for a guitar player. 273 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 4: So I forever have Stevie to this day in a 274 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 4: comedic sense, but always with a knife in my back 275 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 4: that it wasn't really me that you wanted, it was Lindsay, 276 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 4: which was true, and in very short form, Lindsay made 277 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 4: it very clear that if he was to join, which 278 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 4: was not a slam dunk at the beginning, because he 279 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 4: and Stevie were thinking about going forward in their own world, 280 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 4: and she actually persuaded Lindsay to join the band pretty much. 281 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 4: She got fed up with waiting tables and stuff, so 282 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 4: she came somewhat originally by default, and yet not because 283 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 4: the real story is it was very evident early on. 284 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 4: Although Stevie said, you know, loves to dig at me, 285 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 4: it was that, first of all, Lindsay was incredibly loyal 286 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 4: to her and I'm not going to do this without her. 287 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 4: Boom over. Then it didn't take a rocket scientist to 288 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 4: realize these songs, these beautiful songs were co written by 289 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 4: both Lindsay and Stevie. And then you listen to the 290 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 4: vocal blend, which is none other than going like when 291 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 4: you hear the Everly Brothers, you go like, oh my god, 292 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 4: that this joined at the hip and they came in 293 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 4: short form into the band as a duo, which was 294 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 4: a merciful decision when I look back, that Lindsay did 295 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 4: not desert her and said I'm here, but I'm here 296 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 4: with my partner, and that's how that happened. 297 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: I've asked other very successful artists, such as yourself in 298 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: the music world, what does a producer do for you 299 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: when you're in a studio, when you're making a record, 300 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: who's the decider, who decides what take what track, this 301 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: vocal track, this drum track, whatever. But when you had 302 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: a collaboration with the producer that helped you, what did 303 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: they do for you? 304 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 4: Well, I think the simple form would be that we 305 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 4: as a band no matter what, which is not always 306 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 4: the case, and it's not always the magic formula. A 307 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 4: lot of people just totally excel by being guided and 308 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 4: permanently told what to do and have a mirror that's 309 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 4: a reflection from another aspect, another interpretation of really who 310 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 4: they truly are, And that's fine. That was so not 311 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 4: how we grew up into and blustered into what we 312 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 4: were doing. So I would say that anyone that's worked, 313 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 4: including Keith Mike Vernon, the first record producer, was probably 314 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 4: the most influential that he was a blues fanatic and 315 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 4: he ran that little label we were on called Blue 316 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 4: Horizon and after that, so he would be picking songs 317 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,959 Speaker 4: here and there with Peter and the band. After that, 318 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 4: it's really about are you a band member meaning them? 319 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 4: How's the aesthetic of your chemistry being able to not 320 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,239 Speaker 4: insist but integrate right into the fabric of being in 321 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 4: a band. And that's what I would always look out for, 322 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 4: and I think that's been our success has been absolute 323 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 4: expression with a mirror of sorts, but someone who's really 324 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 4: listening to and having an empathy with what am I 325 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 4: dealing with here, especially later on when we became very 326 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 4: much five separate, expressive people that whoever it was, you 327 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 4: have to look back on and give them huge amounts 328 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 4: of credit. Has been some form of a social director 329 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 4: more than an artistic director. And I lost all my 330 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 4: hair because I was both. 331 00:19:53,920 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: But would you say, when you say five distinct beings, 332 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: there was a period when they weren't there were a 333 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: unit and they were a unit during what period? And 334 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: what was that like and what changed that? Musically? 335 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 4: Well, Fleetwood Mac was already a stage that existed, and 336 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 4: Fleetwood Mac was always about change so that you were 337 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 4: accepted for who you were. Anyone should express themselves. You know, 338 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 4: when I look back on it, that's in a naive 339 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 4: way what I must have understood, especially being a drama 340 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 4: when you go, oh, what the hell am I going 341 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 4: to do if I don't have a front line and 342 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 4: people that are delivering the play. You know, not to 343 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 4: diminish who I am and what I am, but that 344 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 4: was my function probably more than anything. So they came 345 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 4: as different characters walking on that stage, and if you 346 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 4: see and hear the music, you go none of it 347 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 4: makes any sense. None of them were clones of anyone. 348 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 4: They were all completely their own entity. So what they 349 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 4: had to learn. 350 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: Was to be in a band. 351 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 4: Everyone was extremely unhappy emotionally on the making of rumors 352 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 4: and Lindsay's sitting on the floor and it's tough. You know, 353 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 4: no one ever intended to leave or anything. But one 354 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 4: time I remember sitting in the studio at the record 355 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 4: plant with Lindsay and he just turned around and said, 356 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 4: I don't know where I can do this, you know, 357 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 4: it's just, you know, we're in transition here. And his 358 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 4: interpretation was can I be in a band? Can I 359 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 4: be in a band? Especially with the pressure of is 360 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 4: this what it's like being in a band? You're emotionally exposed? 361 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 4: And everyone was. We were all in you know, I'm 362 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 4: drifting into the area where we promised we wouldn't go. 363 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 4: But so I just sat with him and he was 364 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 4: playing a setar I remember it distinctly, and I said, 365 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 4: then you must go. If it's self preservation don't destroy that. 366 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 4: Don't destroy us because of the play in essence, Peter Green. Yeah, 367 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 4: And I said, I don't have any ultimate apart from 368 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 4: if it's that bad, then you have to go. And 369 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 4: then I segued and I said, this is what it is. 370 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 4: Everything is a compromise. When you're walking on a stage 371 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 4: and sharing that that stage and this is that stage, 372 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 4: and I'm not forcing you. I'd extremely sad if halfway 373 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 4: through an album you just can't finish it out. And 374 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 4: he didn't say much. He just said I understand, and 375 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 4: he stayed. 376 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: A guy once said to me, and he was much 377 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: younger than me, and this is maybe like ten years ago. 378 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: I was in my early fifties. It was in the 379 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: lines of advice to him for his career, and I said, well, 380 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: do you really want like the cold, hard, unvarnished You 381 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: want it with the bark On or the bark off? Yeah, 382 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: And I said, if you want it with the bark On, 383 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: then don't get married till you're forty, don't have any 384 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: kids to your forty, give yourself you're not just your 385 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: twenties but your thirties. Give this everything thing you have. 386 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: If you want to be an actor, with a real 387 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: prime If you want to be Leo DiCaprio, you want 388 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: to be a guy who's like at the top of 389 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: the pile and making movies with the best directors, the 390 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: best scripts. Everything's the best, the budgets, the release dates, everything. 391 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: If you want to surf that wave all the way 392 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: to the shore, then you have to make this the 393 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: most important thing in your life. Do you find that 394 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: that was true for you as well? 395 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 4: I think in retrospect we didn't know because you're in it. 396 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 4: But as a comment, I think it's entirely correct and 397 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 4: proven out in no uncertain terms of time and time 398 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 4: and time and time and time and time. 399 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: Again. 400 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 4: Are the miracles that slip through and survive like a 401 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 4: built in version of what you've just said. In terms 402 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 4: of advice, yeah, few and far between. It really puts 403 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 4: a wall that you don't even realize that you're putting up, 404 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 4: where you're so into what you're doing that people get 405 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 4: left out and feel pushed away. So ideally, I think 406 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 4: your advice is entirely correct, but that advice is always 407 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 4: almost in retrospect for anyone. 408 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: It's but I'm wondering also with three men, I mean 409 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: asleep with mac is most renowned for its three men 410 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: and two women, and neither one of those women has children? 411 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 4: Correct? 412 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: Were they people that were going through life and they 413 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: were like, well, we're going to get to that, and 414 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: the next year they turned around they were like wow, 415 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: twenty five years wait by like nothing. 416 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 4: You know, I would say if either Chris or Stevie, 417 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 4: I feel comfortable in this conversation saying there was no 418 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 4: doubt that they made that decision to dedicate their lives 419 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 4: to their careers with flashes of what if, But I 420 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 4: think both of these ladies would have no problems saying 421 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 4: that that was the order of the conscious choice. Yeah, yeah, interesting, 422 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 4: very interesting. Yeah. 423 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: Now when people ask me about my drug use, I 424 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: say that I snorted a line of cocaine from here 425 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: to Saturn. Then we did a line of cocaine on 426 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: the rings of sat and then we took it home 427 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: with another line. 428 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 4: Oh, I've got your beat. I'm sure I think your 429 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 4: description is that actually more far reaching than mine? A 430 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 4: planetary version, But my version of that would be and 431 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 4: I've never lived it down, but you know, I have 432 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 4: no problem at all apart from don go there. And 433 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 4: then you have the war stories which this is sort 434 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 4: of tending to be. And I'll preface it by saying 435 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 4: war stories are fine, but there's a time and place 436 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 4: and what can you learn from them would be my 437 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 4: little lesson for anyone listening. So having said that, my 438 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 4: transgression was, which was some awful interview I did, and 439 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 4: I said, well, I one time, you know, I was 440 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 4: in the studio and I'm talking about my Well, how 441 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 4: much coke do you think I've ever done? This was 442 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 4: like in our private world, and we measured out a 443 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 4: good semi fat line of cocaine and then duplicated it, 444 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 4: and then X amount of years, so in the lasting 445 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 4: something amount of years we actually worked it out instead 446 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 4: of cutting tape and editing the song together. We got 447 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 4: into a transgression of actually working out probably about how 448 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 4: long would that line be? And it was seven miles long, apparently, 449 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 4: And I never lived that down and years all, especially 450 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 4: in England, whether they love all that terrible stuff. And 451 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 4: I have to sit there not talking about if you'd 452 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 4: be like someone talking about something in your life versus 453 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 4: the play I'm in or the script I've just written 454 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 4: or the book I've just you know, and you go 455 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 4: you go like, well, live with it because you opened 456 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 4: your mouth in the first place all those years ago, 457 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 4: and mine would be one of probably quite a few 458 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 4: transgressions in terms of that. But comedically, so I still 459 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 4: get asked, you know, was it really seven miles long? 460 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 4: And I looked down to my trouser and go, well, 461 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 4: I wished. 462 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: You know, I'm thirty five years sober. I got sober 463 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: a long time ago in la For you, did you 464 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: feel that when that stopped? Because for me, when it stopped, 465 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: there were good things, but there were also bad things 466 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: because you're forced to confront everything. You know, if you 467 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: are if you go out in the world and you 468 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: don't drink and you don't take drugs and minim commenting 469 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: on you, but speaking for myself, you are kind of unarmored, 470 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: and you need to go out and face the world 471 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: that you need to resolve all your problems. You can't 472 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: sit in the problem anymore. You've got to dissolve things 473 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: and confront things and clean up the masks and so forth. 474 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering for you what happened to you musically 475 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: once you stopped abusing yourself. 476 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 4: Well, I still drink, but the marching powder was a 477 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 4: massive part of my life for probably way over twenty years. 478 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: God, it's a long time. 479 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 4: I don't even know. It's a fucking miracle. 480 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: So that's a long time to have that. 481 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I was known as the king of tout 482 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 4: and everyone would always know that I wouldn't hold it, 483 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 4: you know. And then I did hit a brick wall 484 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 4: and it was like slow motion. And my mother Biddy 485 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 4: would always say, because they're hugely supportive, almost blindly supported, Oh, 486 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 4: it's no problem at all. Whenever he wants to stop, 487 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 4: he can stop it, you know, all those catchphrases. And 488 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 4: I always sort of thought that I could. And then 489 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 4: I hit a brick wall literally, and someone that I 490 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 4: shared my life with said, I'm I'm done. I can't 491 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 4: be around this anymore. And I said, please don't go 492 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 4: leave me alone for two days, and that's what I 493 00:28:54,080 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 4: did and never touched the stuff since overnight. It's divine intervention, 494 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 4: but it's also misplaced in terms of that. That's when 495 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 4: I probably should have gone into a program and found 496 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 4: out what you touched on, what were those reasons? And 497 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 4: I've done that since a couple of times with drink 498 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 4: and had a sort of a wake up call and 499 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,479 Speaker 4: I just thought it was fun. I was around people 500 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 4: telling me literally countless horror stories of what had happened 501 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 4: to them, especially when there were children and young and 502 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 4: I had no support and all sorts of terrible things. 503 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 4: And I just said, I feel so terrible because I 504 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 4: just thought it was fun until it wasn't. And I 505 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 4: still actually haven't found the key of what was that. 506 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 4: My parents didn't drink unduly, had an incredible supportive childhood. 507 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 4: But that brick wall. 508 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: Was it insecurity about being in public? Maybe? Oh, I 509 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: think out there and being famous. I mean Fleetwood Mac. 510 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: I mean this music was coming out of every clamshell 511 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: on the beach for a while. Yeah, every horse in 512 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: the park was singing you can go your own way. 513 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: You know. It was like this music was everywhere, everywhere. 514 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: There were so many songs that were just washing over you. 515 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: It was like in the air all the time. Was 516 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: that unsettling for you? Fame and all that attention. Did 517 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: you need to medicate yourself to get through that period? 518 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 4: I would say immediately. Notice how quickly I went. No, 519 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 4: But I do get nervous about performing. If someone said 520 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,719 Speaker 4: make a speech and read the speech to three thousand people, 521 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 4: I would be really put upon, go out on stage 522 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 4: and just talk to someone I love, not even a question. 523 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 4: I know people around me that all of the trimmings 524 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 4: of what you just mentioned would be. Was that something 525 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,479 Speaker 4: that freaked you out? I have to say no, because 526 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 4: of the way I was brought up. It was just 527 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 4: fantastic and fun. But actually performing and delivering certain aspects, 528 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 4: I would have to say, did bring out a fundamental 529 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 4: some form of academic calling out that you don't know 530 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 4: quite what you're doing, and therefore you're shitting yourself. And 531 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 4: therefore I know for a fact. For years, and I 532 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 4: played sober for fifteen years, the real truth is I 533 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 4: didn't enjoy it. So when I play now, I have 534 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 4: one bottle of red wine and I'm fairly well behaved, 535 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 4: and without it, I can't even breathe. And I've tried hypnosis, 536 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,479 Speaker 4: I've tried everything known to mankind to get over it 537 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 4: and breathing, and I had a guy like meditating with 538 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 4: me on the road when I really really really really 539 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 4: really didn't drink. All I can say is that instead 540 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 4: of enjoying myself, I had my road manager with a 541 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 4: brown paper bag so I could breathe into it to 542 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 4: stop myself getting high anxiety. I don't enjoy it, and 543 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 4: it's because of the element, which has nothing to do 544 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 4: with fame and fortune. It's actually who are you? What 545 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 4: are you in the moment and being called out like 546 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 4: being in the class that I didn't I didn't know. 547 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: Mcfleetwood. Subscribe to Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, 548 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, 549 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: leave us a review. I really appreciate it. Few bands 550 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: have managed to survive longer than Fleetwood Mac. When we 551 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: return the surprising resurgence of interest in the band's nineteen 552 00:32:50,400 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: seventy seven album Rumors. 553 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 6: Yes, the same kind of story. 554 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: It seems to come down long ago. That's the song 555 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: hypnotized recorded during the Bob Welch era of Fleetwood Mac. 556 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: Mick Fleetwood has been the drummer of Fleetwood Mac for 557 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: more than fifty years. And as there's usually one person 558 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: in every long lasting band that brings them back together, 559 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: I asked who was that person for Fleetwood Mac. 560 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 4: It would be me and and that was and is 561 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 4: and has been my function. I imaged it a while ago, 562 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 4: not not any big deal, but I'm going like, you know, 563 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 4: because I don't write, I don't sing, although I'm enjoying 564 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 4: doing some of that now, which is interesting, really actually 565 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 4: interesting to be able to make a private fool of 566 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 4: yourself with no pressure. I said, I think my story 567 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 4: would be and I'm really happy about it and quietly 568 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 4: proud of it. That my function was that I drifted 569 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 4: into it, I learnt it. And me and John always 570 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 4: wanted to have a band to be in. Why wouldn't you? 571 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 4: And I said, I think that story is my song. 572 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: You're a musical catalory. You can see so many beautiful songs. 573 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: It's beautiful music, and the poetry is beautiful, and the 574 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: lyrics it still moves you to this day. 575 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. I take that as a lovely compliment on behalf 576 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 4: of all of us in this crazy band, and thank you. 577 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 4: And I think there is sometimes almost the lighthearted part 578 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 4: of Fleetwood Mac or whatever word one wants to use, 579 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 4: the sort of the poppy part of it was always 580 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 4: balanced out by a form of rev a form of 581 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 4: very often some romance of sadness and entertaining That type 582 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 4: of dialogue would be for me, is is songbird, and 583 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 4: there are, of course are others, But I remember when 584 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 4: Chris wrote that, and I actually spoke very recently to 585 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 4: her about it. We just drifted into a conversation and 586 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 4: she totally remembered, and I went, Chris, this is like 587 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 4: Edith Piaf on a stage alone and she was in 588 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 4: the studio at the record plant, and I said, this 589 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 4: needs to be lonely. We should record it in an 590 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 4: empty theater, not in a shag carpet studio. Let's go 591 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 4: and do that. And we did, and we went a 592 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 4: college over in Berkeley and recorded that song. As the 593 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 4: imaging of it was so devastating to me. I said, 594 00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 4: you are alone. You are alone playing this lovely, lovely song, 595 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 4: and it should be all of that. And that's exactly 596 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 4: what we did. It was the most pregnant suite moment 597 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 4: around the song that I can tell in our short conversation. 598 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: Some including Stevie Nix, And we've read about Dylan's going 599 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: to sell his catalog and David Crosby's getting ready to 600 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: sell his catalog. And I guess in this COVID era 601 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: and beyond, in the age of streaming music, people are 602 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: seeing sources of revenue dry up. Certainly some of these 603 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: people are older. You know, they're not selling their catalog 604 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: and they're in their thirties or whatever, But what do 605 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:35,800 Speaker 1: you think of them? 606 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 4: I think it's great. I'm sure it's not for everyone 607 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 4: or whatever, but I think the circumstances has triggered so 608 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 4: many things. This would be one of them. I think 609 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 4: those decisions may or may not have been made anyhow, 610 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,919 Speaker 4: who's to say why not? And a body of work 611 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 4: that is to be quite frankly translated into all sorts 612 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 4: of lovely things for these people, whatever that might be. 613 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 4: Because the people you're talking about, they certainly don't need 614 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 4: any money for the most part. But no, let's say 615 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 4: we doubt it. So it becomes something that will grow 616 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 4: into all sorts of other things. One would imagine. What 617 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 4: they might be is their business, you know. And one 618 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 4: of the things I think is family. I think a 619 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 4: lot of people are handing down to family ahead of 620 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 4: time versus you know, people picking through when your God forbid, 621 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 4: whenever that moment comes. And to see family enjoying stuff 622 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 4: that can be allocated before you do pop off. 623 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: So, if I'm not mistaken, Rumors is a best selling 624 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: album again now as the direct result of some guy 625 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: on a skateboard swinging down cranberry juice. What did you think? 626 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: What did you think of when you first came across 627 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: the TikTok? Phenomenally right occurred. 628 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 4: Well, I know him as Nathan. His online name is Dogface, 629 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 4: and it is quite unbelieveable. And all hell was breaking 630 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 4: loose because he made a decision one day to do 631 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 4: his thing. It happened in the most charming way. And 632 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 4: then someone said, well would you would you? I said, well, 633 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 4: I can't get on a skateboard, so I hung myself 634 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,439 Speaker 4: off the back of a golf cart and did the thing. 635 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 4: And the next thing I know, we're all on you know, 636 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 4: halftime sports programs, and god knows what else. His whole 637 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 4: life has changed. And I actually loved it because it 638 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 4: was so not thought of. One of the lovely things 639 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 4: I was able to say on a zoom call. He 640 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 4: was doing an interview in England with some very upstanding 641 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 4: BBC chap and he had no idea I was going 642 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 4: to come on the zoom call. So that's when I 643 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 4: first met him, you know, face to face, And then 644 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 4: his family came on. They sang songs to me and stuff, 645 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 4: and I said, let me tell you Nathan Fleetwood Mac 646 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 4: os it's been a fantastic moment in time that when 647 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 4: a wall and typical Fleetwood mac just when you think 648 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 4: you know we've survived, we've been really lucky, you know, 649 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 4: in so many some of the things we've touched on 650 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 4: in our talk where against hopeless odds we've prevailed. And 651 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 4: I always joke about, especially with Lindsay Buckingham years ago. 652 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 4: I used to sit with him and go like, we 653 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 4: are the most abused rock and roll franchise in the world, 654 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 4: meaning we've never capitalized on anything. Really, we're all idiots. 655 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 4: But it's sort of good and we're still here. 656 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. I mean again, I say this because it's easy, 657 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: and that is you're still here and people are picking 658 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: songs of yours to soundtrack their kind of playfulness, TikTok 659 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,879 Speaker 1: and so forth, because the music is great. I mean 660 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: you and you're going back to hypnotized and Welsh. I 661 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: love Hypnotized, I love Mystery to Me, I love all 662 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 1: I love those early records. I play them to death. 663 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 1: I love everything guys, and then solo acts Christia, you know, 664 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: with Stevie's solo albums, blah blah, blah. I love it all, 665 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: but I mean you you live in people's hearts because 666 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: the music is that good. You guys made some of 667 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: the greatest music in the history of the music posiness. 668 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. 669 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 4: No, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I remember something 670 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 4: my father said, and it seems to really apply to 671 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 4: a lot of the storytelling about this funny life and 672 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,879 Speaker 4: certainly Fleetwood Mac and the fact that there have been 673 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 4: all sorts of ups and downs and around the Marlbury 674 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 4: Bush and pain and a lot of happiness as well. 675 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,359 Speaker 4: My dad would always say one thing, Nick, I can 676 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,760 Speaker 4: tell you it's all been worth a damn And hearing 677 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 4: is say that about the music makes me feel that 678 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 4: it's all been worth a diamond. 679 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 3: Thank you. 680 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 4: Lots of love to you, and my love to you. 681 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 1: Mix Sleepwood, I've been. 682 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 3: Such more board of gold like a car the end 683 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 3: of the rain. 684 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's the thing from iHeartRadio. 685 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 3: I'm not leave then You're bad, No, not you, I'm 686 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 3: I've got a bad sting of warm