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Speaker 1: Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello Everyone,

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Speaker 1: and Welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan's and welcome Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young. I've

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Speaker 1: so much cried in saying that, I'm so excited. This

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Speaker 1: is like the Rival's equivalent of like The Godfather the Trilogy.

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Speaker 1: It's long, it's complex, the villains keep changing. It's it's great.

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Speaker 1: Buckle up, and we kept it at three because Graham

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Speaker 1: Nash has generally been kind of like the passive player

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Speaker 1: throughout the saga. You know, he's more like reactive rather

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Speaker 1: than the aggressor. He just seems like, you know, the

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Speaker 1: most decent guy. But the others have done more than

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Speaker 1: their fair share of mud slinging. Today, we're gonna look

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Speaker 1: at how David Crosby has screwed over and been screwed

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Speaker 1: over by the other members of this beloved musical collective. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Crosby to me seems like a good starting point because

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Speaker 1: he's the one who is currently on the outs with

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Speaker 1: everybody in C S N Y. I saw this quote recently.

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Speaker 1: Neil Young said that David Crosby should write a book

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Speaker 1: called Why Don't My Friends Want to Talk to Me Anymore?

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Speaker 1: Which is pretty brutal. But as we'll see as this

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Speaker 1: series unfold, Stephen Stills and Neil Young have also been

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Speaker 1: very big agitators in this world, So, like Jordan, I'm

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Speaker 1: extremely excited to dig into those conflicts as well. Can

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Speaker 1: I just say, though, at the start, how much I

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Speaker 1: love C S N Y. I mean, both as a

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Speaker 1: band and as a soap opera. They're all like such

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Speaker 1: great songwriters and musicians. I mean, just think of like

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Speaker 1: all the incredible like tunes these guys have given us.

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Speaker 1: There's just like such a long list. But they're also

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Speaker 1: just like incredible divas. I mean, you won't find a

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Speaker 1: more fascinating hive of bitchy characters than this one. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: Cross is by far and away my favorite member of

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Speaker 1: cs M Y. He's just he's one of the greatest

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Speaker 1: characters in rock and roll history, right. I mean, he's hilarious,

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Speaker 1: he's articulate, he's excessive, and he's probably second maybe to

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Speaker 1: Keith Richards as like rock and Roll's most unlikely survivor.

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Speaker 1: I mean the fact that he's above ground at all

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Speaker 1: is miraculous. But also he's like more prolific than ever.

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Speaker 1: His last couple albums have been amazing, and now he's

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Speaker 1: this like Twitter, dear Abbey Figure. I mean it's great.

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Speaker 1: It warms my heart, you know, even though the rest

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Speaker 1: of CSMLI apparently hates him. Yeah. You know, what's that

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Speaker 1: line from The Dark Night? You either die of hero

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Speaker 1: or you live long enough to become a villain, Like

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's true of of David Crosby. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I had forgotten just how down it out he was

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Speaker 1: at his lowest in the nineteen eighties. Yeah, he did prison,

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Speaker 1: He was in prison, I mean yeah. I mean this

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Speaker 1: is a guy who literally had a room set up

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Speaker 1: just off stage at every concert just so he could

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Speaker 1: have a space to free base cocaine between songs. Like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing and frankly a miracle that he

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Speaker 1: lived this long to piss off his one time friends

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Speaker 1: well into their seventies. I can't wait to get into this.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's get into this mess. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: I mean just so much again too. But the perfect

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Speaker 1: starting place is really back at the Birds. David's time

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Speaker 1: in the legendary folk rock group. That's a whole episode.

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Speaker 1: One of the best bands ever, incredible American. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's its own episode later on, but we'll go quickly

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Speaker 1: through that. The Birds, of course folk rockers, fused the

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Speaker 1: rich lyrical poetry of Bob Dylan and Pete Seeger with

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Speaker 1: the melodic sophistication and amplification of rock bands like the Beatles.

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Speaker 1: In the mid sixties, they had number ones with Mr

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Speaker 1: Tambourine Man, Turn Turn Turned, And I would say that

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Speaker 1: the Birds were probably the most transformative of all of

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Speaker 1: the proto CSNY bands. I think that they had a

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Speaker 1: huge hand in turning l A into a major musical

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Speaker 1: hub in the early sixties. I mean, the Beach Boys

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Speaker 1: did that a little earlier, but I think the Birds

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Speaker 1: made l A cool, like on par with New York

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Speaker 1: and San Francisco. And you know, in the Birds, no

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Speaker 1: one was cooler than Cross, you know, Like I said,

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Speaker 1: he was one of the great characters in rock and roll.

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Speaker 1: He's he were the kve. He was. All the newspaper

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Speaker 1: like profiles of him around the time have him like

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Speaker 1: on his huge motorcycle with this they called him Batman.

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Speaker 1: He had this like big leather cape that he would

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Speaker 1: wear regardless of the season. Dennis Hopper famously modeled his

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Speaker 1: character an easy rider after after Cross. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: just you knew him. You saw him around and you

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Speaker 1: knew that this this was somebody and he you know,

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Speaker 1: he's hanging out with the Beatles. He had the best weed,

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Speaker 1: dated the prettiest girls, knew the best people. What else

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Speaker 1: did you need? I mean, he's like the prototypical rock

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Speaker 1: star hedonist, and I think Steven Stills later described him

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Speaker 1: as like Brando, he had no boundaries, but also like

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Speaker 1: brand though, he was kind of kind of mercurial. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a nice way of saying it. I think a

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Speaker 1: less nice way of saying it is that he was

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Speaker 1: a huge egomaniac. And it seemed like from the beginning

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Speaker 1: he was alienating his collaborators and and the birds. He

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Speaker 1: was the coolest guy, but he acted like he was

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Speaker 1: the coolest guy, and it's not cool. That's never cool.

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Speaker 1: It's not cool. And the problem was that he was

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Speaker 1: not the leader of the band either. Roger mcgwinn was

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Speaker 1: the person who was in charge of that band. And

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Speaker 1: I would also say that in terms of just talent,

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Speaker 1: I think Gene Clark was the best songwriter in that

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Speaker 1: So even when you look at David Crosby all that

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Speaker 1: he's accomplished, I feel like he was maybe like the

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Speaker 1: third ranked guy and the Birds, even though in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways, as you say, he was like this

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Speaker 1: cool guy. He had a really high media profile. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is this hilarious quote from Terry Melcher where he

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Speaker 1: was asked once. Of course, Terry Melcher is this record

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Speaker 1: producer from the sixties. He produced The Birds. He also

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Speaker 1: worked with Paul Revere in The Raiders and a bunch

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Speaker 1: of other sixties rock bands. Someone once asked Terry Melcher

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Speaker 1: who was the most difficult person that he ever worked with,

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Speaker 1: and without blinking an eye, he said David Crosby. His

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Speaker 1: number two choice was Charles Manson, And keeping mind, Charles

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Speaker 1: Manson tried to kill Terry Melcher, or he wanted to

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Speaker 1: kill Terry Melcher. That's you know, he lived in the

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Speaker 1: house on Ciallo Drive originally that the Manson family went

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Speaker 1: and they committed all those terrible murders. So even compared

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Speaker 1: to Manson, Terry Melcher thought David Crosby was more difficult. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: of course, David Crosby ended up getting bounced from the birds,

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Speaker 1: and there's completing stories about whether he was fired or whether.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's clear that he was fired,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't also a story that maybe he quit

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Speaker 1: maybe at some point. I think there was like some

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Speaker 1: sort of weird thing like I think Crosby kind of

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Speaker 1: pushed the idea that he was treated unfairly by those guys. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Stills would later try to rat out Cross and say like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he likes to say that he was fired, but it

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Speaker 1: was really more mutual agreement. I think it definitely helped

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Speaker 1: Crosby's cred later on to be like, oh, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: birds couldn't handle me, because by the sort of like

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Speaker 1: sixty six sixty seven, the birds were sort of not

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Speaker 1: seeing as this cutting edge that they've been sort of

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Speaker 1: in sixty five early sixty six. And I think he

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Speaker 1: liked the idea of be like, oh yeah, no, I

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Speaker 1: had moved beyond them. They were rejecting my songs. He

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Speaker 1: famously put for the song Triad, which is basically his

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Speaker 1: ode the Threesomes, and he loved to say that like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, mcgwin was way too square to handle a

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Speaker 1: song like that, and mcgwyn would later saying, no, I

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Speaker 1: rejected it because the song sucked. It was just the

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Speaker 1: bad song. So yeah, there's Crosby likes to make himself

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Speaker 1: out to be this outlaw who was kicked out of

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Speaker 1: this like Squeaky Clean l a plastic pop band. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems more like they were just diverging. One story

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Speaker 1: I love from that time is about the cover of

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Speaker 1: the Birds album that the Notorious Bird Brothers, which is

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Speaker 1: a great record record. It was the first record that

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Speaker 1: the Birds put out after Crosby was bounced out of

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Speaker 1: the band, and on the cover it's mcgwyn, it's Chris Hillman,

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Speaker 1: Michael Clark, the drummer, and there's a horse. When David

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Speaker 1: Crosby saw that cover, he thought that the horse was

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Speaker 1: supposed to represent him and so he was very insulted

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Speaker 1: by that. Mcgwinn denied it and he said, yeah, if

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Speaker 1: we meant it to be cross, we would have had

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Speaker 1: the horse turnaround, so you just saw its backside. It's

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Speaker 1: just incredible comeback. You know. My theory about David Crosby

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Speaker 1: and and I feel like this will I think be

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Speaker 1: born out as we get into this episode and we

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Speaker 1: talked about all of his experiences over the years, is

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Speaker 1: that he's at heart, you know, this kid that craves attention. You,

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Speaker 1: he's like the little boy maybe who was. I know

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Speaker 1: that he had a difficult relationship with his father. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he ever got the attention he really needed

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Speaker 1: from that paternal figure. And it seems like he will

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Speaker 1: do anything to get the attention that he craves, even

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Speaker 1: if it involves throwing his bandmates under the bus. Like

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Speaker 1: I was reading David Brown's book about Crosbie, Stills, Dash

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Speaker 1: and Young, which is an incredible book, by the way,

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Speaker 1: you should definitely go check that out, And there's a

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Speaker 1: story in there where he's talking about it's like one

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Speaker 1: of the many times that Crosby tried to go through

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Speaker 1: rehab in the seventies, and there was a psychologist that

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Speaker 1: did an analysis of him and the conclusion was is

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Speaker 1: that David Crosby as a person who is perpetually dissatisfied

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Speaker 1: and can't derive any contentment from his relationships. And that

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Speaker 1: line really struck me as being profoundly sad. But it

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Speaker 1: seems like that explains him in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: Like he's a self destructive person in his own life

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Speaker 1: and and I think in a lot of ways in

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Speaker 1: his relationships, there's something in him that just has to

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Speaker 1: kind of throw a monkey wrench into even a good situation.

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Speaker 1: He definitely thrives on chaos, and for the reason you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: probably just attention seeking behavior. And it shows up again

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Speaker 1: and again, and then you add tragedy later on, as

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Speaker 1: we'll see when we talk about the depth of one

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Speaker 1: of his girlfriends, that's just catastrophic and that sends him

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Speaker 1: off down this this horrific trail of drug abuse and

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Speaker 1: uh and personality clashes. But but that's why he's so

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Speaker 1: good on Twitter, you know, because he's a he loves

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Speaker 1: attention like that is like a godsend for somebody like him.

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Speaker 1: If only Twitter had existed in nineteen sixty nine, maybe

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Speaker 1: a lot of this could have been avoided. Can you

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Speaker 1: imagine I mean mcgwinn and cross now on Twitter pretty hilarious,

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Speaker 1: But can you imagine them in like sixty sixty seven

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Speaker 1: going at it talking about like, you know, tryad or something.

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Speaker 1: Well Crosby blocked mcgwyne did on Twitter. Yeah, because I

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Speaker 1: think Well mcgwinn is a born again Christian he was

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Speaker 1: trying to preach to Crosby. So you know, maybe you

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Speaker 1: could say Crosby was justified in that respect. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's another rival where we could talk about

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Speaker 1: Crosby and mcgwinn, but you know, we digress, which to

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Speaker 1: get back to the csn Wine story. Absolutely, okay, So

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Speaker 1: across It's sixties six he meets Graham Nash. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the person who introduces them, the the sort of the

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Speaker 1: leading light, the patron saint of Crosby, Stills, Nash and

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Speaker 1: Young is Mama Cass, Mama Cass Elliott of the Moms

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Speaker 1: and the Papas she introduces Graham, she she was a

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Speaker 1: real anglophile in the sixties and when the Hollies came

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Speaker 1: to town, Graham Nash's band. Uh, she said, I really

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Speaker 1: want you to meet my my friend Crosby, David Crosby.

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Speaker 1: So she drives him up to his little bungalow and

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Speaker 1: Laurel Canyon and uh and Crosby has this real, like

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Speaker 1: very very visceral first impression of Crosby just sort of

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Speaker 1: laying on the couch rolling joints without even looking. He

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Speaker 1: can just do it just by touch and Karen on

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Speaker 1: full conversations with people, and I thought, I remember in

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Speaker 1: Graham's book that was the first time he ever got high,

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Speaker 1: which sounds kind of crazy, but I don't know. I like,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to believe that Cross was the guy who

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Speaker 1: got him high for the first time. Maybe I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: They became pretty close. They hit it off, and they

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Speaker 1: would visit each other when they were in their respective cities,

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Speaker 1: and they both kind of occupied similar roles in their band.

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Speaker 1: Graham was really fed up with his lot in the Hollies,

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Speaker 1: who were hugely successful and incredible harmony band, probably one

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Speaker 1: of the most lightweight British invasion groups that I can

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Speaker 1: think of. Great great pop. I mean songs like carry

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Speaker 1: Anne with that kick ass steel drum solo like bus Stop,

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Speaker 1: incredible songs, but they weren't really They didn't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of lyrical and emotional half and Graham just all

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Speaker 1: about harmony right right. And Graham was trying to sort

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Speaker 1: of push them forward. He wrote a song called King

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Speaker 1: Midas in Reverse in sixty seven, which was a little

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Speaker 1: bit deeper. It was kind of like, you know, everything

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Speaker 1: he touched turns to stone, everything he touched. That's how

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Speaker 1: he sort of felt about the pop world at that time.

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Speaker 1: He was at a very unhappy part in his point

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Speaker 1: in his life, and you know, pop songs are generally

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Speaker 1: happy if they're not about like a breakup or something,

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Speaker 1: and there's the song sort of about existential angst and uh,

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Speaker 1: with this really complex production arrangement. It almost sounds like

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Speaker 1: Strawberry Fields or something. It's big, elaborate orchestral thing, and

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Speaker 1: the song tanked, sort of confused their listeners, and Crosby

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Speaker 1: had sort of gone through that himself and the Birds.

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Speaker 1: He had a song, his first Bird's A side was

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Speaker 1: called Lady Friend, and it was very different than the

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Speaker 1: Bird's material. It was sort of louder and faster and

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Speaker 1: rocky or it sounded like sort of like a totally

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Speaker 1: different band, and that also tanked. So they both were

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Speaker 1: kind of like trying to pull their bands forward in

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Speaker 1: just in a musical sense, and helped them progress, and

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Speaker 1: the fans and the rest of the band weren't really

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Speaker 1: going for it. And in the same way that the

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Speaker 1: Birds passed on David's triad, the Hollies were passing on

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Speaker 1: some of Graham's newer songs like Mary Cash Express. They

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Speaker 1: tried to do with the Hollies, and they just weren't

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Speaker 1: feeling it and they abandoned it, so they had a

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Speaker 1: lot to talk about. It's funny to me that like

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Speaker 1: Mary Cash Express was considered like two for the Hollies,

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Speaker 1: because that's like a pretty lightweight song, just like whoa,

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Speaker 1: this this is two edgy Man, This is like two revolutionary.

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Speaker 1: This song about like, you know, going to Markesh and

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Speaker 1: having like this fun adventure. So yeah, when you look

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Speaker 1: at the early days of CSN, Crosby is certainly I

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Speaker 1: think the pivot point between Nash and Skills, Like he's

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Speaker 1: bringing these guys together because while he's hanging out with

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Speaker 1: Graham Nash, he's also getting to know Steven Stills, and

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Speaker 1: at that time, Steven Stills of course was one of

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Speaker 1: the main artistic forces in Buffalo Springfield. Who I think

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Speaker 1: in many ways you could say we're a rival band

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Speaker 1: or maybe even like a successor band to the Birds.

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Speaker 1: They came around a little bit later. They were starting

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Speaker 1: to become this hip local band at a time when,

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Speaker 1: as we said before, the Birds were starting to fade

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Speaker 1: a little bit, and Crosby being this attention seeking glory

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Speaker 1: hound essentially, you know, he knew what time it was,

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Speaker 1: and he started cozying up to Buffalo Springfield and he

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Speaker 1: actually ended up playing with that band at the Monterey

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Speaker 1: Pop Festival because Neil Young, the other main creative force

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Speaker 1: in that band, he started flaking out around this time.

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Speaker 1: He he didn't want to play Monterey Pop. He famously

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Speaker 1: bailed before a high profile appearance on The Johnny Carson

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Speaker 1: Show when Buffalo Springfield would have been the first rock

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Speaker 1: band to ever play on Carson. Neil Young basically bailed

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Speaker 1: before they were supposed to tape that, which would of

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Speaker 1: course be very precient for how Neil Young would would

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Speaker 1: behave in the future. So he's starting to cozy up

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Speaker 1: the Stills and and they're starting to talk about also

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Speaker 1: having some sort of musical union. And can I just

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Speaker 1: say that, like, Steven Stills is like my favorite member.

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Speaker 1: You said at the start that David Crosby is is

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Speaker 1: your guy in this group. I'm a huge Stills fan.

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Speaker 1: And uh, we'll talk more about that in our next

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Speaker 1: episode because Steven Stills is going to be the focal

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Speaker 1: point that time. But yeah, I mean it is it

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Speaker 1: fair to say that Crosby is most responsible for these

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Speaker 1: guys coming together, I would say, so, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: he he Instills, we're trying to make a duo after

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Speaker 1: after Crosby got fired from the Birds and Stills uh,

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Speaker 1: and after Buffalo Springfield was done, they were a duo

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Speaker 1: called the Frozen Noses, which is a a cocaine reference,

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Speaker 1: which is some nice foreshadowing there. Um, it's like pretty

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Speaker 1: early to to be making a cocaine fan like sixty eight,

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Speaker 1: like they were ahead of the curve. They were doing

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Speaker 1: blow before a lot of people, and they would do

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Speaker 1: more blow than a lot of people as the seventies

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Speaker 1: unfold through using pioneers. That's absolutely true. Yeah, I would

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Speaker 1: say that. I mean because I Stills didn't really know

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Speaker 1: Graham very well. But there's a famous story and before

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Speaker 1: Graham left the Hollies, this would have been I think

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Speaker 1: in February of sixty eight, the Hollies came to l

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Speaker 1: A and play at the Whiskey and Go Go, and

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Speaker 1: Stephen and Cross showed up as kind of like cheerleaders.

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Speaker 1: They would later say they were in the front row

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Speaker 1: cheering and getting everybody all pumped for the Hollies, who were,

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Speaker 1: you know, not that cool of a band. And after

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Speaker 1: the Hollies did their show. They all crammed into Still's car.

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Speaker 1: Still's Crosby and Graham, and they're they're driving around talking

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Speaker 1: and I guess Graham went to the bathroom or something

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Speaker 1: and and Crosby goes to Stills and says, okay, which

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Speaker 1: one of us is going to get him? They both

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Speaker 1: wanted to work with Graham early on, but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that Cross was definitely the lynch pin between the two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's that famous story where I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: changed depending on who's telling it about like the first

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Speaker 1: time that they sang together. I've heard that it was

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Speaker 1: like Mama Cass's house. I've heard it was at Joni

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Speaker 1: Mitchell's house. I don't know if there's like a definitive

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Speaker 1: version of that story. All I knows that they started

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Speaker 1: playing the song you Don't Have to Cry, which was

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Speaker 1: a Stephen Stills song and ended up on the first

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Speaker 1: Crosby Stills in Nash record, And it seems like they

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Speaker 1: hit upon that like iconic harmony sound pretty quickly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I always love the fact that for a band that

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Speaker 1: fought so much, they can't even agree on the first

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Speaker 1: time they sang together, which you would would think. They

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Speaker 1: all have very very like like photographic style memories of

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Speaker 1: how they believed it went down, and they're all different,

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Speaker 1: all three or different. The one that's most commonly said

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Speaker 1: it was a Joni Mitchell's house. Graham had just come

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Speaker 1: from London, right from the airport and he arrived there

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Speaker 1: and and Stephen and David were there and they wanted

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Speaker 1: to play some of their their Frozen Noses material for

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Speaker 1: their friend Graham, and he asks them to sing the

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Speaker 1: song you Don't Have to Cry again, and he's listening

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Speaker 1: to it, and then Graham asks him to sing the

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Speaker 1: song a third time, and Cross and Stephen are like,

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Speaker 1: what the hell is he want? You know, what's he doing? Like,

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Speaker 1: I know the song is good, but three times on

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Speaker 1: the row? Jesus. So they start singing in a third

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Speaker 1: time and Graham has capped the lyrics by this point,

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Speaker 1: and he sings and he adds his top level harmony,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, they would always say that Crosby stills in Nash,

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Speaker 1: which is born in that moment at this at this

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Speaker 1: little dinner party at Joni or Mama Cass's house, depending

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Speaker 1: on who's telling the story. And yeah, that was really

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Speaker 1: where it started. Yeah, And you know, speaking of Joni Mitchell,

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Speaker 1: she was involved with David Crosby early on. He ended

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Speaker 1: up like producing her first record. They were sort of

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Speaker 1: a thing. I don't know how serious that was, but

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Speaker 1: it was at least a fling of some sort. And

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Speaker 1: then Graham Nash comes along. And Graham Nash, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've read a lot of CSNY books. He has this

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Speaker 1: reputation for being a ladies man, essentially, like he's got

365
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Speaker 1: the British accent. He's a pretty good looking guy. He

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Speaker 1: is not a raging egomaniac, at least not to the

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Speaker 1: degree that the other guys in the band are. So

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Speaker 1: he's like pretty charming and sensitive and he swoops in

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Speaker 1: and he ends up just sweeping Joni Mitchell off her feet.

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Speaker 1: So it seems like Crosby was fairly cool with that.

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Speaker 1: He's like not really protested about that too much over

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Speaker 1: the years. But again, you see like this is another

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Speaker 1: sort of premonition of what's going to happen in this band,

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Speaker 1: because there's going to be other conflicts over women that

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Speaker 1: occur in this group. But you know, it's fascinating about

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00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 1: the name of the band is that you know they

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Speaker 1: weren't the Birds, they weren't Buffalo Springfield, they didn't adopt

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Speaker 1: like a band moniker. They put their names in the

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Speaker 1: name of the group. And that was a very deliberate

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Speaker 1: decision because they were all used to being in bands

381
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Speaker 1: and all of the ups and downs that you experience

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Speaker 1: and things like that, and also knowing that when you

383
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Speaker 1: are in a band, if someone leaves, it's very easy

384
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Speaker 1: to replace them. And the idea was that we're going

385
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Speaker 1: to put all of our names in the title of

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Speaker 1: the band, because no one is replaceable, and it also

387
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,159
Speaker 1: shows that we're all individuals at the same time. I

388
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Speaker 1: have to say too that you know, again looking ahead

389
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 1: that I feel like that band name benefit of David

390
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,000
Speaker 1: Crosby the most, especially as we look ahead to the

391
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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, because during that time he became a real

392
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 1: liability in the group where on their records they were

393
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 1: subbing in other singers for him essentially, but like they

394
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 1: had to put his name on the title card or

395
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 1: they couldn't get record deals essentially. So you know, it's

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Speaker 1: like if they hadn't have been called that, you know,

397
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Speaker 1: if they had just been the Frozen Noses or something,

398
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Speaker 1: ye know, I wonder if Crosby would have been the

399
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 1: first one replaced. Wow. Yeah, that's a good point too,

400
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,639
Speaker 1: because I always view their name as sort of almost

401
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 1: like you say that it was a way to sort

402
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 1: of protect them and make sure that they were all none,

403
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 1: no one was expendable. I almost thought it was the opposite,

404
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 1: where it made the band a lot more amorphous and

405
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 1: people could sort of come and go as they please

406
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 1: and like, Okay, oh, maybe this next album is gonna

407
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Speaker 1: be Stills in Nash, or maybe the next one is

408
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,440
Speaker 1: gonna be Crosby and Nash, or maybe the next one

409
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 1: is gonna be Stills and Crosby. And I almost thought

410
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 1: of it as being sort of like an open relationship

411
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Speaker 1: because they both they all had had such horrible experiences

412
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Speaker 1: in their prior bands, and that this was sort of

413
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Speaker 1: like a way of not labeling the band. It was

414
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Speaker 1: just themselves and the next, you know, the next time around.

415
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Speaker 1: Then I guess this would happen in the seventies too,

416
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Speaker 1: with the Steels Young Band and all the La Crosby

417
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,159
Speaker 1: Nash albums and stuff, So I guess it worked both

418
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 1: ways to it protected them as a as an entity

419
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Speaker 1: that they weren't replaceable, but it also made the band

420
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Speaker 1: a lot more fluid. All right hand, We'll be right

421
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Speaker 1: back with more rivals. So as we head into that

422
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Speaker 1: first record, that icon of Crosby Stills a Nash record

423
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Speaker 1: where they're all sitting on the couch in front of

424
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,879
Speaker 1: that house uh in Los Angeles, I feel like we

425
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 1: maybe should dig deeper into that in our Stills episode

426
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,640
Speaker 1: because Stills really was the driving force of that record,

427
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: and obviously Crosby and Nash made vital contributions in terms

428
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 1: of their songs, you know, with Crosby specifically the songs

429
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: Guenevere he co wrote Wooden Ships, He was a writer

430
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,159
Speaker 1: on Long Time Gone, obviously a big part of that record.

431
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 1: But it seems like the making of that record was

432
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,199
Speaker 1: relatively smooth because Stills was the one in charge and

433
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: Crosby and Nash were willing to go along with what

434
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 1: he was doing. And then things started getting a little

435
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 1: weird when they had to come around to touring because

436
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 1: Steals played all the instruments on the record essentially, and

437
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 1: then they had to bring in another musician to you know,

438
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 1: sort of round out their life sound. And that's how

439
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: Neil Young ended up in the band. And that's a

440
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: huge drama. I feel like that's more of a still

441
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,640
Speaker 1: centered drama, though, I mean, do we want to get

442
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: into that in this episode too? Yeah, that's definitely more

443
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 1: about Stills. Like I love how Skills would later refer

444
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 1: to Neil as the snake, as the snake that they

445
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: led into their like Laurel Canyon, Garden of Eden. It's

446
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: pretty unfair. I don't know, it's like, you know, you

447
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 1: invited him first of all, well, you know, And I

448
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 1: don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but I feel

449
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 1: so bad for Stills on some level because I feel

450
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,199
Speaker 1: like Neil Young has traumatized him many many times, like

451
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: in their relationship, even though now they seem like pretty cool,

452
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 1: you know. Again, like it seems like the other guys

453
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 1: in this band at this point all like each other,

454
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,119
Speaker 1: and the thing that unites them is hating Crosby, Like

455
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 1: they all hate Crosby, or at least like they're distracted

456
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,719
Speaker 1: by their other. Like if Skills does have feuds with

457
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 1: Young or vice versa, it's not taking precedence over like

458
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: the anti Crosby sentiment at this time. But again, that's

459
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,880
Speaker 1: we're getting ahead of ourselves. There's so much to discuss

460
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: in this story. I think next in this timeline with Crosby,

461
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 1: we have to talk about the Christine Hinton story. Is

462
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: his girlfriend who died? Was that in sixty nine, Yeah,

463
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: that was right before they started recording Deja Vu. And

464
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: I mean, just this absolutely heartbreaking story. I mean, she

465
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 1: was Crosby's this is gonna sound terrible, his main girlfriend.

466
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,719
Speaker 1: He obviously he was very into the free love thing

467
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 1: at this time, but very very very close to her

468
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: and loved her a great deal. And she was I

469
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: guess driving a VW bus with some kittens that they

470
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: had either rescued or just got to the vet. And

471
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 1: one of the kittens scratched her, and she instinctively swerved

472
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: the wheel and swerved across the center lane and drove

473
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 1: into uh, into oncoming traffic. And what a weird way

474
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: to to die. I'm sorry. It's like, that's why I'm

475
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: a dog person. It's the most flower child way to die.

476
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: It's his heartbreaking. It's like a it's like if Stephen

477
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 1: King wrote like a child story or something. It's like

478
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: a very Stephen King type thing. It's awful. And she

479
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 1: was twenty one years old. Oh, she was just a kid. Yeah,

480
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 1: and Crosby. Really that I think is the thing that

481
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: sent him off into this this path that would lead

482
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: to free basic cocaine on the side of the stage.

483
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: And he would say in his in the documentary from

484
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen, Remember My Name, he would say, there

485
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: was just this emptiness after she died. It was like

486
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: a rip in the fabric in an empty place, and

487
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: it leaves a big hole where you just want to

488
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: fill it. And he would spend much of the next

489
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: two decades just kind of filling it with with heroin

490
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 1: and cocaine. He said it was it was a pain killer.

491
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: It really just numbed him and helped him pretend that

492
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: nothing had happened that really, I mean, he was in

493
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: really rough shape. I guess Graham and Mama Cass took

494
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: him to London for a while trying to get his

495
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: mind off things, and they wouldn't even let him go

496
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: to the bathroom on his own. He was basically on

497
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: like suicide watch at that that period, and this spilled

498
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: over into sessions for Deja Vu, and he was just

499
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: really barely functional, like in tears on the mic. Yeah,

500
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: and you know, and keep in mind, you know, the

501
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 1: first Crosby, Stills and Nash record comes out and it's

502
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: a huge hit, and you know, there's there's stories about

503
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: how that album was essentially like the soundtrack of Los

504
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: Angeles in nine, Like you couldn't go into a head

505
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 1: shop or the grocery store anywhere in l A without

506
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: hearing those songs over and over again. So they're a

507
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: huge band. They're the biggest band in America basically at

508
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 1: that time. So there's a lot of anticipation for Deja Vu.

509
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: Of course, they've added Neil Young into the mix, and

510
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: Neil Young really wasn't that big of a star yet.

511
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: He would become a big star because of his association

512
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: with this band. But as they're recording that record in

513
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: contrast with the first album, which again it seems like

514
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: that would relatively smooth, you know, there was the novelty

515
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: of working together. It seems like they weren't arguing as much.

516
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: Now they're go into Deja Vu, and it's the old

517
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: story about you know, people getting a little bit of

518
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: money and notoriety. The ego start coming into play. You

519
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: have Neil Young entering the picture and he has a

520
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: much different way of working. He's challenging Steven Still's authority again,

521
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: We're going to get it warned that in our next

522
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: episode the Skills versus Young psychodrama going on. But as

523
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: it pertains to Crosby, it seems like Stills like he

524
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 1: was not all that understanding of like the pain that

525
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: Crosby was going through at this time. Like Stills is

526
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: like this perfectionist taskmaster and he is um just making

527
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: Crosby go through the paces on the record. He's demanding perfection,

528
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: Like I think on the title track, he made Crosby

529
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: play that song like a hundred times, like they did

530
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: a hundred takes of that song. It's a very tricky

531
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: time signature. And there was also the conflict over almost

532
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: Cut My Hair, where Stills was just like the song

533
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: is too sloppy, and also I have to say that,

534
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: like I don't know how you feel about this almost

535
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: cut my Hair. I kind of like that song, but

536
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: it's also like pretty dumb like song lyrically, like that

537
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: line where he's like, must be because I had the

538
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: flu for Christmas and I'm not feeling up to par

539
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: it increases my paranoia, like looking out my mirror and

540
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: seeing a lit up and he says police car. It's like,

541
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: come on, dude, but anyway, you know. But at the

542
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: same time it's like, hey, Stills, go easy on cross here. Man.

543
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: He's like just lost his Girlfriend's a pretty terrible time

544
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: for him. In his very Still's way, he tried to

545
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: kind of make a man's He wrote him a song

546
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: called Do for the Others, which I don't think didn't

547
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: wind up in the album. I said, I don't know where.

548
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: It might have been a bonus track later on, where

549
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: he wrote it for Crosby to sing, and it was

550
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: basically about It had lines portrays Crosby as cries with

551
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 1: the misery lies singing harmony before coaxing him to borrow

552
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: the life of his brothers. Was kind of like, you know,

553
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: lean on your brothers for strength kind of song, which

554
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 1: was his way of trying to distract Crosby. I guess

555
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: you could say with work, which is a very Stills

556
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: thing to do, and even get him back on the

557
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: mic with something that he might might relate to. I mean,

558
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: I always, whenever I think of their relationship, I think

559
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: of that footage that is in Every Crosby Stills, a

560
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: Nash documentary of Crosby in a hammock, just kind of

561
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: lying there with a joint hanging out of his mouth

562
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: and Stills hanging over him, just being like, I'm not

563
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: going to give it an inch to fear. You know,

564
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: I've been waiting for you for two days. You ask

565
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: whole he's just like brating Crosby. I don't know what

566
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: caused the fight, but I can use my imagination that

567
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: they're working. Methods are so different. I mean, still, he said,

568
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: is the guy who was in the studio for eighteen

569
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: hours a day or or you know, and then later

570
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: in the seventies, well not even that. I mean from

571
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: what I've read, it was like twenty four hours a day.

572
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: Like he would go on these benders like where he

573
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 1: would be in the studio around the clock for like

574
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: five days, and like engineers would come in and out

575
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: of the studio essentially because he would not stop working.

576
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen that confrontation you're talking about, and

577
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 1: I just look at it as like an example of

578
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: two different types of drugs at work. Like to me,

579
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 1: Crosby is pure weed, you know, he's on the hammock,

580
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: and Stills is just like uncut merk cocaine, you know,

581
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: just a hundred miles an hour, and uh, you know

582
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 1: that's going to come into the But the other thing

583
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: with Cross at this time too, And I wanted to

584
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 1: get your take on this because you know, we both

585
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: have seen the documentary. Remember My Name came out in

586
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: nineteen like really great documentary about David Crosby. One of

587
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: the things that struck me about that movie though, is that,

588
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: like they spent a lot of time talking about the

589
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 1: song Ohio, which ended up you know, that came out

590
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: in of course, right after the Kent State shooting and uh,

591
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: ended up being this iconic Crosby Still's Nation Young song.

592
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: But I feel like Crosby whenever he talks about that song,

593
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: it's almost like he wants to take partial credit for

594
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: writing it, because he always tells a story about like

595
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: how he told Neil Young that he should write a

596
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: song about this, and like he showed him. I think

597
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: it was like the cover of Life magazine with the

598
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 1: Kent State like famous Kent State photo. I don't know.

599
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: I just look at that like as another example of

600
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: him maybe kind of glombing onto something that someone else did,

601
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: because because Neil Young wrote that song, like David Crosby

602
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: didn't write that song, But I mean, am I being

603
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: too hard on him? Though? In that respect. To hear

604
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: Cross tell it, he makes it sound like he's spoon

605
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: fed the lyrics to Neil who just kind of like

606
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: basically edited it and they went from there. But yeah,

607
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: Cross always makes it seem like it was his idea.

608
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: He made the call, Okay, we should all say something,

609
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: get into the studio right now, we're gonna We're gonna

610
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: work this out right now. I don't think it really

611
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: went down like that, but I think that that that

612
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: song I think more or than definitely more than like

613
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: almost cut My Hair or something like that, or A

614
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: Long Time Gone, which is written after OURFK was killed.

615
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: I think Ohio cemented csn Y as politicized. They weren't

616
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: just like kind of Laurel Canyon hippies, like flower children

617
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: like it actually made them figures that stood for something.

618
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: And I think as the years went on, the reputation

619
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: of the song Ohio is grown for that reason that

620
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: that so much of the substance of Crosby, Stills, Nash,

621
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: and Young rests on that, and I can see why

622
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: Crosby would want to have a piece of that legacy

623
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: and be responsible for it because that was their platform, right,

624
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: And I think he does deserve credit for, like you said,

625
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: like he was um, I think the driving force and

626
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: recording that song so quickly and getting it out and

627
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: there's that part at the end of the song where

628
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: he starts yelling how many more and you can hear

629
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: the emotion in his voice, and that is I think

630
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: the emotional peak of that song. I think you're right though,

631
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: in terms of like their political reputation, Ohio is like

632
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: a big reason why people look at them as you know,

633
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: being like protest singers. And I do think that's that's

634
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: probably the best protest song outside of maybe Fight the

635
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: Power by Public Enemy of like the last fifty years.

636
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: I mean, that's an incredible song. But when I think

637
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: about David Crosby, like his musical sensibility, I think more

638
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: about like his first solo record, If I Can Only

639
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: Remember My Name, which I think is like one of

640
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: the great like vibe records of all time. Like you

641
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: put that album on and you feel like, Okay, I

642
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 1: know what it was like to be super high in

643
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: l A in one, and you know the strength of

644
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: that record is not lyrics. I mean, there's like songs

645
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: that don't even have lyrics. It's just like Crosby saying

646
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: like la la la the entire song. Like literally, I

647
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: think it's like a couple of songs like that on

648
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: that record. But um, I actually think that's a strength

649
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: of that album, Like it doesn't need a lot of lyrics. Again,

650
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: it's more about like the feeling in the vibe of it.

651
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: And you know, it's a hammock record. It's the perfect

652
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: record to have on when you're in a hamm It.

653
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: It is gorgeous. I mean, yeah, the song without Words,

654
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: oh my god laughing is incredible. And then of course

655
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: you've got the Cowboy Song, which is like an eight

656
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: minute or nine minute like mythical retelling of the Crosby, Stills,

657
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: Nash and Youngest story to date, which is pretty hilarious too.

658
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: But oh my god, Yeah, that album is gorgeous. And

659
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: he got some incredible people on there too, right, I mean,

660
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: he got Nash and Young, he got Jerry Garcia, got

661
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell. I think he had members of of Santana

662
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: and Jefferson Airplane on there. The thing that's amazing to

663
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: know about that album too, is that it was really

664
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: done to kind of help him through the grief of

665
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: losing Christine Hinton too. So to hear this beauty that

666
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: he made from this really really dark place kind of

667
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: makes it all the more astonishing. Yeah, exactly. And you

668
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: know it's interesting too that like Crosby was making a

669
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: solo record at that time and all the other guys

670
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: were making solo records because essentially, after you know, making

671
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: the first Crosby Stills a Nash record and they put

672
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: out Deja Vu, which ended up being an enormous hit.

673
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 1: You know, they went on that tour in nineteen seventy,

674
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: and it seems like that was a pretty miserable tour,

675
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: and like, I think after that tour and seventy they

676
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: were like, Okay, we need to be a part, we

677
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 1: need to make our own records now. Yeah, I'm kind

678
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: of amazed that that tour didn't like finish off the

679
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: group for good forever, or at least for like, you know,

680
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: forty years or something. It was it was pretty miserable.

681
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: Steven Stills had fired their bassist for reasons that were

682
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: really like basically political, because he was getting tight with Neil.

683
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: Neil retaliated by demanding that they fired the drummer who

684
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: was type with Stephen. This led to a huge fight

685
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: with Cross and Neil. There was a opening night on

686
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: the tour UM. I guess Stills had gotten into a

687
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: he fell off a horse, right, he fell out a horse,

688
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: and he came on stage with like a body cast

689
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: or something, or on crutches. He was on crutches and

690
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: he was just like out of it all night. And

691
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm guessing we'll probably get in this more on the

692
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: Stills episode that he kind of felt his hold on

693
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: the group slipping, and he was just all over the place,

694
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: like he's backing Neil on on helpless and like playing

695
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: piano and just like played all over him. And then

696
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: when Crosby goes to introduce Stills for a solo set,

697
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: Stills is just like nowhere to be found. It was, Yeah,

698
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: a miserable tour came to a head in New York

699
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: when Um every band member had a little mini solo

700
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: set in their show. I think they did like two

701
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: songs a piece, and during this one night, Stills just

702
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: like kept going and that really piste off the rest

703
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: of the band. I think there was like a physical

704
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: like battle royal backstage after the show was over, and yeah,

705
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: that really kind of like is a defining moment of

706
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: that tour, I think, And um, what's worse that Stills

707
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: and Graham are fighting over a woman? They were fighting

708
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: over Rita Coolidge, the incredible singer who Crosby and this

709
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: might have just been the cocaine or really bad weed

710
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: either or believed it to be some government agent that

711
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: was sent by Nixons. Yeah, yeah, perfectly reasonable. I think

712
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: he was stone called sober when he came up with that.

713
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that seems pretty you know, on

714
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: the on the money. Yeah, he's like terrified of It's like, man, like,

715
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: can you imagine being a woman coming into this situation,

716
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: like these poor women that had to deal with these

717
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: like lunatics, because yeah, like Stills was into Rida Coolidge,

718
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: but she was more into Nash. And then like the

719
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: other guy, think that you're you know, like Jacker Hoover.

720
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's just like insane. But I don't know,

721
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like in a way, like you

722
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: know that that CSN y Um world, it had this

723
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 1: like inherent toxicity that didn't necessarily translate like when say,

724
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: like Crosby and Nash worked together because like they actually

725
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: end up making a bunch of records together, David Crosby

726
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: and Graham Nash like through the early seventies that I

727
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: think are actually like pretty good, Like the first one

728
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: in particular, Graham Nash. David Crosby is what it's called.

729
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: I think has some great songs on it, like Southbound Train,

730
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: Page forty three, Frozen Smiles, a bunch of really good songs.

731
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: And it seems like those two guys had a genuine

732
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: friendship that I don't know if like that they had

733
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: with the other guys in the bands. Yeah, Like I

734
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: feel like those two guys um really liked each other,

735
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: and also they just worked together musically. Their voices of course,

736
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: just fit together so well. I mean that is really

737
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: the core of like that harmony sound. I mean, like

738
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: Stills I think is like I think pretty clearly the

739
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: third best singer out of those three guys. I mean,

740
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: like his voice I think has some cool qualities to it.

741
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm a huge Stills fan, But in

742
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: terms of just like pure harmony, you can't beat Crosby

743
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: and Nash. And you know, as we said at the top,

744
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: we're not doing a separate episode on Nash because I

745
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: think Nash is like the nicest guy in this band.

746
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: He hasn't really instigated a lot of conflicts. Although in

747
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: a way, I feel bad that we're doing what I

748
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: think a lot of people overlook Nash when they look

749
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: at this band, like they don't give him his props

750
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: for essentially like writing their biggest hits and you know,

751
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: being like the pop star essentially in the group. But

752
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: I think another reason why we're not talking about Nash

753
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: separately is that him and Crosby they had like a

754
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: lot of their adventures together until of course they ended

755
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: up having a very decisive break later on, which we'll

756
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: get to later in this episode. But it seems like

757
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: like throughout the seventies you just see this like sort

758
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: of off and on thing of like csn Y getting

759
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: back together and falling apart, and around seventy three seventy

760
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: four they started to come back together again. Yeah, they're commercial.

761
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: Like fortunes had kind of fallen. Uh Stills had just

762
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: done the second Manassas album, which was kind of everyone

763
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: viewed as sort of a disaster. Graham Nash's second solo album,

764
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: Wild Tales, kind of got ripped apart Crosby didn't have

765
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: another solo album for many years, I believe Um and

766
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: then Neil's post Harvest work wasn't selling up the expectations,

767
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: so they they ended up reuniting in um in mauiuh

768
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: to try to work on very early stages of a

769
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: new Crosby Stills Nation Young album that they tentatively called

770
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: Human Highway, which has become sort of semi mythical for

771
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: its uh it's almost like their Smile. There's just tons

772
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: of songs that were up for consideration at that point.

773
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: Also extremely dysfunctional. I the sessions kind of fell apart.

774
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 1: Graham suspects some kind of weird cocaine deal thing that

775
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: that went awry, but yeah, it's just that they ended

776
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: up going their separate ways until they came together the

777
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: next year for what's been called the doom To, which

778
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: was when oh my god, well because those are the

779
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: year after Bill Graham that the music and Pissario got

780
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: back the road. I think I think the Dylan and

781
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: the band were early in seventy four, and then this

782
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: Crosby Stills Nation Young tour was like the summer and

783
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: it was like I think it was like the first

784
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: stadium tour. Like there have been stadium shows that you know,

785
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: the Beatles obviously played some shows that's Shade Stadium in sixties,

786
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: like Grand Funk Railroad played at Shay, But like in

787
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: terms of like a series of stadiums, I'm pretty sure

788
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: that the Doom Tour was the first example of that.

789
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean this was it just became synonymous

790
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: with like excess in the seventies, not only because of

791
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: what the musicians were doing backstage, including like David Crosby.

792
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: Like wasn't this the period like Crosby was like traveling

793
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: with with two women at once and like like he

794
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: basically just had like a harem around him. That was

795
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: like he didn't even try to hide it, like he

796
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: was just known that he was like having like you know,

797
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: like three way sex every night essentially. It's just like

798
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: that was like his you know every night in the

799
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: middle of me I think that people he would come

800
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: in and like talk to people and then like midway

801
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: through the conversation that people would realize that that he

802
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,479
Speaker 1: was getting a like a blow job underneath the table

803
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: or something like that. Like that that level of depravity,

804
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,919
Speaker 1: I believe is what we're talking with Cross at this era.

805
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: I mean, the phrase cocaine fueled gets tossed around a lot,

806
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: but I think that's really the only way to put

807
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: it for this tour. I mean, it was really this

808
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: is the one where he like freaked out a hotel

809
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: manager because his room is too breezy. I think I

810
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: think this was the same era. Yeah, my favorite part

811
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:43,919
Speaker 1: is that, I mean for all the excess, and there's

812
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: stories of them like spilling cocaine on rugs and then

813
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: all falling to their knees and huffing the rug and

814
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: stuff like that. The item that all the members tend

815
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 1: to site for being like the ultimate excess of this

816
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 1: tour are these SI pillow cases where they had Joni

817
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: Mitchell's illustration embroidered on them, And I'm just like, yeah,

818
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: I mean I'm sure that cost some money. But like,

819
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 1: how about the time like Still's got a private jet

820
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: to like fly in his favorite years. Course he wanted

821
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: six packs, of course, so he like charted a private

822
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: jet and had like Cours brought to him. And I

823
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: think like in the seventies, Cours was maybe sort of

824
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: like a like a more of a boutique beer. But still, yeah,

825
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: that's just insane extravagance. Yeah, there's a there's a figure

826
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: that like they made something like eleven million dollars from

827
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: this tour, but because of all the expenses that they incurred,

828
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: that each guy only made like maybe you know, a

829
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: couple hundred thousand dollars, you know, Like so like they

830
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: expected this to be like a big windfall. But you know,

831
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: it's that old story about like when you put a

832
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 1: bunch of expensive things on your writer as a band,

833
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: the then you charges you for that. Yeah, like you

834
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: paid so Yeah, I had like the fancy meals by chefs,

835
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: and like the private jets and like the silk embroidered

836
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: pillow cases and like all these unnecessary expenses. You know,

837
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 1: it just killed them and they go from there to

838
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: try to make another record. I feel like there's like

839
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: several aborted attempts to like to make another record, Like

840
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: didn't they try to do Human Highway again after the

841
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: Doom tour, Yeah, which is such a huge tactical error.

842
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: I mean, if you can't get back together in the

843
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: studio after years apart and have tensions flare up, you

844
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: don't want to do it after being on the road

845
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: for two or three months. In you know, relatively confined space.

846
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: I mean, that was just a bad idea from the star.

847
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: They Yeah, they tried to do Human Highway again. I

848
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: think they went to I think it was a grand

849
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: um at Neil Young's Broken Arrow Ranch and Crosby and

850
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 1: Nash started fighting with Stills almost immediately. They were arguing

851
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: about doing a harmony part on the Steven Still's song

852
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: Guardian Angel, and Still's got so angry that he took

853
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: the tape master of their song Wind on the Water

854
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: and just ripped it apart with the racer blamed. I

855
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: mean again, which at the beginning when I said that

856
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: these guys are bitchy divas, like, I was not joking,

857
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: like they're like, there are no divas bigger than these guys.

858
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: Just insane behavior that they would do that. The story

859
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: that gets me is about the long May You Run record,

860
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: which started out as a Steven Skills and Neil Young album.

861
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: They were going to make a duo record, and this

862
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: was at the same time that Crosby and Nash were

863
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 1: making a record called Whistling Down the Wire and uh,

864
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, Stills and Young are working together, and they

865
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: eventually decided, hey, let's bring Crosby and Nash into the fold.

866
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: So they end up recording vocals for this Stills Young record,

867
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: and there's an idea I think for a moment that

868
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: this might become a csn Y record. Um, but then

869
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: like I forget what the particulars were exactly, but it

870
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: was decided that no, we're not going to make this

871
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 1: a CSNY record, We're going to keep it as Stills

872
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: Young record. Crosby and Nash left to kind of finish

873
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: their own record, and then like Young decided to wipe

874
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: their vocals, Crosby and Nash's vocals off this record. Like

875
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: why did he decide to do that? Like was there

876
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: some fight or something. Well, I think that Cross and

877
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: Graham were called back by the label like okay, you

878
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: gotta finish your record and start promoting this. So I

879
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: think that they were called the It wasn't that they

880
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: stormed out at so Young was just mad that they

881
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: left it. Sounds like that, Yeah, it was just so

882
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: pissed that they left in them. You know, maybe not

883
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: the middle of it, but like when it wasn't completed

884
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 1: yet that he wiped their vocals. Again, let's let's repeat.

885
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: Neil Young was upset that someone left early, Like, you know,

886
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: can we just like marinate in the irony of that

887
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: for a moment here? Uh, you know, like Neil Young,

888
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: of all people, I feel like you should understand if

889
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: like someone has to leave a project early, but at

890
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 1: any rate, he's mad, he wipes their vocals off the record,

891
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: and like Crosby and Nash I think understandably are very

892
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: piste off about that, and they're like, basically, screw these guys,

893
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 1: We're not going to work with them again. Uh, but

894
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: that was not true because they were back in the

895
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: studio was Still's like very soon after that to work

896
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: on the CSN record from seventy I think it was

897
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 1: like months later. I mean, Neil famously crushed still spirit

898
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: by leaving him in the middle of the Still's Young

899
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: band tour with the famous you know, funny how things

900
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: that starts spontaneously in the same way eat a peach

901
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: Neil telegram. Yeah, we're gonna get into that a lot

902
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: in our next episode. Neil Young just like traumatizing Steven

903
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: Stills over and over again. But yeah, like he ditches Stills,

904
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: and Stills is like I think Stills at one point

905
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 1: that like, you know, like my life is over, or

906
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: like my career is over. I have no future, have

907
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: no future. He like, you know, basically like Hanks tail

908
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: and goes back to uh, Crosby and Nash and they

909
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: make this record CSN, and I feel like you and

910
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: I disagree about this a little bit. I actually really

911
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: like the CSN record from seventy seven. It's the one

912
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: where they're on the yacht and it's like it's a

913
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: literal exactly the yacht with the yacht rock. Then because

914
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: it's very smooth, it's very soft rock. It's very I

915
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: think emblematic of like nineteen seventy seven, which was the

916
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: year of rumors by Fleetwood Mac Hotel, California by the

917
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: Eagles ended up. I think that came out at the

918
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: end of seventy six, but it was like a huge

919
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: seller in seventy seven. And I really look at CSN

920
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: is like the third record of that, like l a

921
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: rock triumvirate um. You know, you've got great songs on there.

922
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: You like Shadow Captain, which I think it's like one

923
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 1: of the best David Crosby songs. That's like one of

924
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: my favorite Cross songs for sure. And you know, like

925
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: Steven Still's dark Star. I think it's a great song.

926
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: I actually really like the soft rock Graham Nash song

927
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: just a Song Before I Go. I appreciate that for

928
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: what it is. I really feel like that's maybe like

929
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: their last great record. But I don't know, what, do

930
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: you think, You're not as big into that album now?

931
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: For me, that was that just felt like, I mean,

932
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: in a way, I understand that it makes sense that

933
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: they embraced the whole yacht rock thing. I mean because

934
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 1: I feel like the success of their first two records

935
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: kind of laid the groundwork for all the the sort

936
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: of l a excess that was the common the seventies,

937
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: so it kind of makes sense that they ended up there.

938
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: But I don't know something about it. It It feels to

939
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: me like that was the moment when they started becoming

940
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: more of a nostalgia act. I mean, the soft rock

941
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: sound for them, it felt like it felt too easy.

942
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's not. I prefer the Laurel Canyon

943
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: kind of more acoustic vibe to the the just a

944
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: Song Before I Go or Cathedral. I do like Shadow Captain.

945
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: That is a great song, but I don't know, just

946
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: the soft rock thing kind of bums me out with

947
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: them in the same way that like Hotel California makes

948
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 1: me uncomfortable because it does has that l a excess

949
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: cocaine paranoia vibe. And when I think of CSN Y,

950
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to think of that. I want to

951
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: think of them in like, you know, in a Hammock

952
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: and Laurel Canyon, this sort a hippie idyllic setting, And

953
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: so maybe that's why it just makes me said. It's

954
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: like later seasons of Mad Men, when you see everybody's

955
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: kind of like it just looks bad, Like Pete Campbell's

956
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: got like the receding hairline and stuff, and they've got

957
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: all the like wide Paisley ties and stuff. It just

958
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: you think back to like how cool and slick and

959
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: everybody was in the earlier season. I think that's how

960
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: I feel about the CSN album. It just feels like,

961
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: you see how far they've come in this sort of

962
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: uncomfortable setting that they're in now, and it just makes

963
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: me nostalgic. I guess, well, if you think CSN marked

964
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: their declined, then I'm sorry to report that we've got

965
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: a long way to go down slope with these guys,

966
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: especially with David Crosby, because as we enter into the

967
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: late seventies and early eighties, this is the time where

968
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: Crosby really starts to fall into a bad way and

969
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 1: he discovers something that we like to call free basing

970
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: cocaine um, which is a terrible thing for anyone to do.

971
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: If you're listening, Uh, this is my p s A

972
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: announcement for this episode. Do not free base cocaine. Do

973
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: not really even snort cocaine. Avoid drugs if you can,

974
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: but do not be like David Crosby as he was

975
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 1: in the late seventies and early eighties, because yeah, he

976
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: was in terrible shape at this time. And I mean,

977
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: there's so many horrible stories that we could tell about

978
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: Crosby at this time. Again, like I alluded to this

979
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: earlier about how Crosby's habits became so bad at one

980
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: point that they had to set up like separate rooms

981
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: like in the studio or like offstage at concerts where

982
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: Cross could just go and literally smoke cocaine during shows

983
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: or like during recording sessions. Like he really was that

984
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: dependent this drug. And it seems like there were so

985
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,919
Speaker 1: many instances, like through the eighties, like where he would

986
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: relapse and then maybe try to go to rehab and

987
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: then relapse again, like so many instances, Like I didn't

988
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: realize like how much like he like he was, like

989
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: how many opportunities he was given basically to recover and

990
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: then like when he got into legal trouble, he was

991
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 1: given many chances to avoid jail time and he just

992
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: could not stop smoking the rock no I mc graham

993
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: and UM and Jackson Brown stage an intervention at his

994
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: house and in the middle of the intervention, he ran

995
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: off to go to the bathroom to free base and

996
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: they caught him and that and that was when, you know,

997
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: they were just like Jesus Christ, like I kind of

998
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: give up. I mean, this is there's only so much

999
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,439
Speaker 1: that you, as his friend, can do. Yeah, and even

1000
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: his best friend Graham, they were trying to make a

1001
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 1: duo album together and they were having a jam session.

1002
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: It was going really well until uh crosses free base

1003
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: pipe fell off an amp and fell on the floor

1004
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: and broke, and then Crosby stopped the session and went

1005
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: to go pick up the pieces and NSS. You know,

1006
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: until that point, the music had always been first, regardless

1007
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: of David's personal problems, but at this moment I knew

1008
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: I couldn't work with them anymore. And so that's when

1009
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: Nash and Still's got together to try to make Daylight Again,

1010
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,879
Speaker 1: which was their duo album with the two of them,

1011
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: and the record company wasn't interested. They said, we'll get

1012
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: cross me back in and we can talk, but at

1013
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: this point we don't really want still That's what I think.

1014
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: You know why I said that thing before about why

1015
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: having each member's name in the band title really protected

1016
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,760
Speaker 1: them from being replaced, because you know, for all intensive purposes,

1017
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: like Crosby like shouldn't have been on that record, Like

1018
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: he was not in any condition to contribute to that album,

1019
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 1: although he did actually end up adding a really great

1020
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: song to that record called Delta, I think one of

1021
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: the strongest songs on Daylight Again. But for the most part,

1022
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: I mean, like he shouldn't have been making records, he

1023
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been touring. He should have been like, you know,

1024
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: chained to a bed and like basically drying out and

1025
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: and and straightening out his life. But because of the

1026
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: power of the brand, like he was brought back into

1027
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: the fold. Know, Crosby has talked about over the years

1028
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: about how he felt like, yeah, I feel like those

1029
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: guys cared about me, but I also know that they

1030
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: had to pay their bills, and you know, if I

1031
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 1: wasn't in the band, you know, they weren't going to

1032
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 1: get the type of concert bookings or the kind of

1033
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: record deals that they would get if it was a

1034
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 1: Crosby Stills, a Nash record. I have to say too, though,

1035
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: like when you listen to bootlegs from that time, Like

1036
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: I have a bootleg of CSN from and St. Louis,

1037
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: and that was like I think right around the time

1038
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: that he went to jail, like pretty soon after that,

1039
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: I think he went to prison. And again this is

1040
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: in the middle of him like free basing cocaine during shows.

1041
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: There's like this one example of like how like Crosby

1042
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: left a show to free based cocaine and like I

1043
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: think Stills through like a bucket of water on him

1044
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: and then like Crosby walked out like drenched in water,

1045
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: like he was like kind of dazed. Watching him on

1046
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: stage in that area, like the live video for Southern Cross,

1047
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 1: I mean, he just looks like he's got this thousand

1048
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: yards he's not there. He just looks horrible. But like

1049
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: if you listen to the bootlegs, it actually sounds pretty good.

1050
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, like how much cocaine you have

1051
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: to smoke to ruin your voice, but like Crosby apparently

1052
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 1: didn't get to that threshold because his voice steal sounds

1053
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: pretty good even though he's like in a terrible way.

1054
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: Like I said, I think, was it an eighty five

1055
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: that he went to jail finally? I think, uh yes,

1056
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: I think it was the end of eighty five. I mean,

1057
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: he was a fugitive from the FBI. He liked soul

1058
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: Blast like valuable item that he had, which was a piano,

1059
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 1: and rented a plane to fly from California to Florida

1060
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: to try to get to his yacht. When he gets there,

1061
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: he's he was gonna basically take his yacht and just

1062
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: spend the rest of his days at sea or something.

1063
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: I guess he hadn't really fully thought that one through.

1064
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: And then when he found his yacht, it was just

1065
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: in total disrepair and unseaworthy after just years of neglect,

1066
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: and he turned himself in and he went to prison

1067
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: I think for about a year and nine months or

1068
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: something like that, and he he detalks in prison, but

1069
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: they didn't even give an aspurn or anything. He would say,

1070
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: like he just completely went through all that just on

1071
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: like a you know, a prison bench. And then when

1072
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: he ended up performing for the first time sober and

1073
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: like twenty years soon after got out in August of

1074
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: eighty six and um, and he got back together with

1075
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: CSN Line not long after. It was part of Neil

1076
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: Young's promise. Basically they performed together. They did one song

1077
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: at at Live Aid then it was it was a shambles,

1078
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: and Neil basically said, look, Crosby, if you can get

1079
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: your act together, I'll come back and we'll we'll do

1080
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: something together. I wonder, like when Kneel Young said that,

1081
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: if you actually like thought that Crosby, Like I just wonder,

1082
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: because like when I read about that, it kind of

1083
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 1: feels like one of those promises we were like, yeah, Crows,

1084
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: if you survive, which ye right you won't, but like

1085
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: if you do, yeah, sure, I'll play with you guys,

1086
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: because like we'll talk and we'll get into this in

1087
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: our Neil Young episode. But like he dissed those guys

1088
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 1: so much over the years, and like he obviously had

1089
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 1: his own thing going. I just feel like he wouldn't

1090
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: have otherwise felt a strong compulsion to play with those

1091
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: guys again. And and the results American Dream kind of

1092
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: bears that out. Is not a lot of effort in there,

1093
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: and he didn't even bother to tour it. Yeah, and

1094
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: that record isn't great. And I mean, like when we

1095
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: look at like the nineties records that like CSN put out,

1096
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: Like I mean, like Live It Up. That record, which

1097
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: is like one of the worst album covers of all time.

1098
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: It's like it's a shot of the moon and there's

1099
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: like these huge sticks and there's hot dogs on the sticks,

1100
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: and then there's like it looks like there's like telephone

1101
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: operators climbing the poles on the cover, and like you

1102
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: see the planet Earth in the back. It's like it

1103
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: makes no sense. Do you know what there is there

1104
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: any kind of meaning to have you? I've not been

1105
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: able to find anything. I would love to know. I

1106
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: was just like, oh yeah, like okay, this this record

1107
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: is called Live It Up. We're trying to assert that

1108
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,839
Speaker 1: we're still a relevant band. We've had some problems over

1109
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: the years. What can we graphically use to represent our

1110
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,760
Speaker 1: sort of rising from the ashes if you will? Oh,

1111
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:43,959
Speaker 1: how about some hot dogs on sticks on the moon,

1112
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, perfect, perfect, Uh yeah, I don't know.

1113
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: To me, it just seems like no one gave a shit,

1114
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: and and that's how it is. That seems like the

1115
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: only reasonable explanation. So that record is pretty bad. After

1116
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: the storm came after that, that's like pretty good record.

1117
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: It inc like relatively speaking, like if you if you

1118
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: have little expectations, um, it's not too bad. Glenn John's

1119
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: produced it. So I feel like a lot of these

1120
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: CSN records like sound bad production wise, and I think

1121
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 1: the production on that record is pretty good relatively speaking.

1122
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: I remember being really disappointed by Looking Forward because that

1123
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: was like the first cs N Y record since Deja Vu,

1124
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: and like Neil Young had a great nineties and I

1125
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: think I was expecting it to sound more like a

1126
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: Neil Young record from the nineties, but like that's another

1127
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: one where uh it just sounds kind of weak and

1128
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: a little to sort of like adult contemporary. Well, I

1129
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 1: think he came in late in the game and basically said,

1130
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,280
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I've got these two or three acoustic songs

1131
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: you can just sort of like stick on it. And

1132
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: then so it was really like a CSN plus y album.

1133
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 1: I feel like there, I don't think there was a

1134
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: lot of of collaboration going on there at all. It

1135
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: seems like to like, you know, one of the big

1136
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: splits that proved to be decisive in this band was

1137
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: they were going to do a covers record with Rick Rubin. Um.

1138
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: I think that was like a two thousand kind of like.

1139
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 1: I think they had worked on it for a while

1140
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: and like they couldn't get it together mainly because like

1141
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: David Crosby didn't like Rick Rubin. Yeah, I guess he

1142
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: thought Rick Rubin was like too much of an autocrat

1143
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: to really work with. He just thought he completely owned

1144
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: every element of the creative process and felt stifled. H

1145
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: I know, I don't think any of them Have you

1146
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: heard any of those tracks? I don't think any of

1147
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,399
Speaker 1: those tracks have ever. No, I haven't. I mean, like,

1148
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: you know, like I won't respect you're like, oh, a

1149
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: cover's record, Okay? That I mean that that kind of

1150
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: speaks to artistic bankruptcy right there. But it's also like

1151
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: kros like Rick Rubin, whatever you want to say about

1152
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: the guy, he has been involved in like some pretty

1153
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: high profile uh comebacks, you know, and you would think

1154
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: that like a Rick Rubin CSN record, it's going to

1155
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 1: get a lot more attention than like live it up

1156
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: or after the storm, did you know? I think that

1157
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 1: that would have given them a pretty good bump, but

1158
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: they just couldn't get it together. But I feel like

1159
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: that's just a precursor to like the big incidents that

1160
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: involved David Crosby that ended up really sort of self

1161
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 1: destructing this band. And it just, I mean, it boils

1162
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: down to David Crosby talking like ship and interviews, right,

1163
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: I mean, like at least with the Neil Young Darryl

1164
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: Hannah story, it's maybe the pettiest example of the fighting

1165
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: throughout this entire story, and the fact that it seems

1166
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 1: to be like responsible for the longest lasting schism between

1167
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: them all is blows my mind. You're right, It's just

1168
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,479
Speaker 1: David Crosby was given an interview. It was after Neil

1169
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 1: divorced his wife Peggy, his wife of twenty nine years,

1170
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 1: and he started dating actress Daryl Hannah, and David Crosby

1171
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: in septem is giving an interview with the Idaho Statesman,

1172
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 1: and apparently these quotes were supposed to be off the record.

1173
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: That's what I later heard, but of course they were

1174
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: so uh inflammatory that they were I guess put In

1175
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: the interview, Crosby refers to Daryl Hannah as a purely

1176
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:50,839
Speaker 1: poisonous predator. Uh and and which you know you don't

1177
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 1: say that about your friend's girlfriend, especially to an outlet,

1178
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: even if it is like supposedly off the record. Neil

1179
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,280
Speaker 1: goes on Stay. Not long after this interview, Hit stands

1180
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: and tells the concert go or CSM, I will never

1181
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: tour again ever. Uh And soon after he makes that pronouncement,

1182
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 1: Crosby confirms that that Neil is very angry with me,

1183
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: and he goes on this big apology tour. He's apologizing

1184
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,439
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and he goes on Howard Stern and says,

1185
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: you know, basically tries to make a man's sport. He says,

1186
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 1: I'm screwed up, way worse than that girl. What do

1187
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: I get off criticizing her? She's making Neil happy. I

1188
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 1: love Neil and I want him to be happy. Darryl,

1189
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 1: if you're out there, I apologize, Where do I get

1190
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: off criticizing it? Yeah? But then he did the same

1191
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: thing to Graham Nash. Like Graham Nash you know, ended

1192
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,399
Speaker 1: up leaving his wife, his longtime wife, Susan I think

1193
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 1: her name was or Is, and he started dating woman

1194
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 1: in her thirties, which you know, look, you can criticize

1195
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: rock stars for doing that. It's a very rock star

1196
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: thing to do. Um, but he is not the first. Yeah,

1197
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 1: he's not the first to do it. And like David

1198
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: Crosby is not in a position to judge other people.

1199
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: But like apparently like he confronted Graham Nash about this

1200
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: or didn't say something on stage even where he was like, well,

1201
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I haven't left my wife, you know,

1202
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: like Graham over here like making a joe about it. Yeah,

1203
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: I think he made he made a joke about like

1204
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: Crosby stills Nash and always I'm the one who's keeping

1205
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: to my marriage house right, which you know, by the way,

1206
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: And again I'm not trying to be judgmental here, I'm

1207
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 1: just bringing up as a fact that like the woman

1208
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: that David Crosby is with Jan Dance, they've been together

1209
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 1: for a long time, but like I think Crosby was

1210
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 1: responsible for like getting her addicted to drugs for a

1211
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: long time. They had to like go through rehab together

1212
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: because they were in such a bad way, like they

1213
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: were free basing essentially together, like you know in the

1214
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: late seventies and early eighties. Uh so again, maybe don't

1215
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: throw stones at people, especially at Graham Nash. Like again,

1216
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: we've talked about how I feel like Graham Nash is

1217
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: like the nicest guy in this band. Like one story

1218
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: that I forgot to tell earlier is that when Crosby

1219
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: was in such bad shape and uh you know it

1220
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: was basically selling off everything in order to get money

1221
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: for drugs, Graham Nash like very quietly bought Crosby Song Publishing,

1222
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: I think grand and then when Crosby got cleaned up,

1223
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: he sold the publishing back to Crosby, like basically bought

1224
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: the publishing so Crosby couldn't sell it off for drugs,

1225
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: which is like an incredible thing for a friend to do.

1226
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: And I think it speaks to like what kind of

1227
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: person Nashes and like how much he genuinely cared for Crosby.

1228
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: So after all of the crap that Nash had to

1229
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 1: put up with over the years, you know, for Crosby

1230
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: now to like be given him shit about you know,

1231
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 1: his relationship, it just must have been infuriating for him.

1232
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: And I know, like he there's a couple interviews that

1233
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: he's done. There's like one on YouTube where he is

1234
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,439
Speaker 1: just I rate about Crosby. He says, like he tore

1235
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: the fucking heart out of the band, and like, you know,

1236
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: like he distinguishes. He said, he tore the heart out

1237
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 1: of CSN and he tore the heart out of CSN Y,

1238
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 1: which uh is just brutal and like to see Graham

1239
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: Nash of all people angry, it just shows like how

1240
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: far he had been pushed, you know, over the course

1241
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: of like fifty years. Oh yeah, he says, I've been

1242
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: there and saved this ask for forty five years and

1243
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: he's treating me like shit, and he's right, yeah, it's awful.

1244
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: And so you know, I feel like the story now

1245
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: that gets told is like the official end of the

1246
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: band occurred at of all places, a Christmas tree lighting

1247
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: ceremony at the White House, which it just goes to

1248
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: show like the most innocuous setting, you know, even that

1249
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: would be infused with drama by you know CSN, because

1250
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 1: like they did this performance, what song were they doing?

1251
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: It was like and like you know, there was some

1252
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: issue with the monitors. They couldn't really hear each other.

1253
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: And it's really I think it's on YouTube. I think

1254
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 1: you can go on and watch it. It just sounds horrible.

1255
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 1: I know Crosby has talked about that being the end

1256
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: of the band. I don't know if they just kind

1257
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: of realized at that point that, like, we're not sounding

1258
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: very good. I mean, it sounds like there were all

1259
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: these other conflicts as well, that we're bubbling under the surface.

1260
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: That really kind of again, as Nash said, tore the

1261
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: heart out of the band. Yeah, and the reference you

1262
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: made the new Young saying that Cross should write a

1263
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: book about like why all my friends hate me. That's

1264
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: kind of where we're at now with Crosby. When he

1265
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: put out his documentary Remember My Name in twenty nine team,

1266
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: it comes across as this like massive apology tour dating

1267
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: back to the Birds of like everyone he's ever piste off,

1268
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,439
Speaker 1: so he's very open about how he can be and

1269
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: and now most recently he's just been sort of trying

1270
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: to make amends and uh making over truths to the

1271
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: others to to get the band back together for political purposes,

1272
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: to do uh election stuff. I mean he's sort of

1273
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 1: doing that, But then he also is you know, he

1274
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 1: reiterates in every interview that he does that like he's

1275
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: in the middle of this great creative renaissance right now, like,

1276
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: which is true. Like I think his first record in

1277
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: this run that he's put out lately was Crossed. I

1278
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 1: think that came out and that was his first solo

1279
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 1: record since if I could only remember my name, it

1280
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: was like what is that? Like, you know, forty three

1281
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: years after that record, and now he's just like put

1282
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,439
Speaker 1: out a record almost every year, like and each one

1283
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: like really strong. Like I would say that Crosby, out

1284
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 1: of all these guys right now, is making the best music,

1285
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: like by far easily here if you listen, as an

1286
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: incredible album. So I think he wants to get the

1287
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: band that together. But he's also talked a lot about

1288
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: how he was sick of playing the hits over and

1289
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: over again and that he feels much more sort of

1290
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: creatively satisfied on his own. So I don't know. Again,

1291
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: I go back to what that you know that psychiatrist said, uh,

1292
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: that was quoted David Brown's book that I think there's

1293
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: a question quality to David Crosby. He's searching for contentment

1294
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: and he still hasn't found it, and uh, you know,

1295
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: maybe he's just sort of destined to be that kind

1296
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: of guy. We're gonna take a quick break to get

1297
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:40,439
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor before we get too more rivals. Okay,

1298
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: so this is the part of the episode where we

1299
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: talk about I guess the pro side of each part

1300
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: of the rivelry. So I guess with Crosby. We'll look

1301
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: at the pro Crosby case first. And I think, for me, like,

1302
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: you know, Crosby is probably the most emblematic member of

1303
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: the band, Like he looks the most like the sixties.

1304
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: You know, he's got the bushy musta ash in the

1305
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: long brown hair. I think he also in many ways

1306
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: is like the most unique of the band in terms

1307
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: of like his artistic sensibility. He has that sort of

1308
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: jazzy quality to a lot of his music. He uses

1309
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: like a lot of you know, weird tunings. He's not

1310
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 1: really writing like the conventional pop songs that Graham Nash

1311
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 1: writes or you know that amalgam of folk and blues

1312
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: that Steven Stills is involved in. Crosby really has his

1313
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: own sort of unique voice artistically, and again, you know,

1314
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: he is making the best music right now. I think

1315
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: his late career renaissance is incredibly impressive, you know, especially

1316
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: in the midst of all the drama that he's been

1317
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: in the middle of. You know, like he's really rededicated himself,

1318
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 1: maybe more than he ever has in his life to

1319
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: like making great music. And uh, you know, for an

1320
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: artist his age, that's really commendable. Like he's definitely not

1321
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 1: leaning on nostalgia. No, absolutely not getting back there. You

1322
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: said earlier too, I mean, but what he brought musically

1323
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: to csm Y, I feel like it's not discussed enough.

1324
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: I mean, dejav and Guenevere, You're right, has this weird

1325
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: sort of jazz influence. But I all the credit him

1326
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: as being sort of the chief vocal arranger of the band,

1327
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 1: and he came up with these all the really unique

1328
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: harmony lines that aren't just like the normal chortal triads,

1329
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 1: I mean, all going in in the same way that

1330
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: he does weird guitar tunings. He would find really unique

1331
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: ways to blend all their voices. That's so so interesting,

1332
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: and it's funny that his voice is sort of the

1333
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: least distinct I think of of the three. I mean,

1334
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: you've got kind of stills anchoring it with this bluesy growl,

1335
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: and then you've got um Nash's harmony like razor sharp

1336
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 1: cutting through on top. He just kind of has this.

1337
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: He's like the glue. I always thought vocally that holds

1338
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: it all together. Were you almost don't notice it until

1339
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: it's not there, and then it feels hollow. So yeah,

1340
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: I think that the vocal work that the band is

1341
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: known for, I really think he doesn't get enough credit for.

1342
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 1: And you're right. I just think he's the soul and

1343
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: spirit of the band. I feel like he brought the cred,

1344
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: the coolness. I think that his social circle and being

1345
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, the king of the l

1346
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 1: A scene at that time, was really responsible for getting

1347
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 1: the band, which obviously had a tremendous amount of talent,

1348
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: to this higher level of the buzz that got everybody

1349
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 1: was excited about this band. All the cool people in

1350
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 1: l A. We're talking them up. They always talk about

1351
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: how when they were playing Woodstock, they had everybody in

1352
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: a semicircle behind them, Jefferson, Airplane, the Band, Hendrix all

1353
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: kind of watching them with their arms folded, seeing what

1354
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: they could do. I think the Crossby was a huge

1355
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 1: part of that. I think because he was such a

1356
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: key figure in that social scene that when they exploded,

1357
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 1: they exploded even bigger because of that. So yeah, I

1358
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 1: think that he's really the spirit of the band. So

1359
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: when we go, I guess to the pro Stills, Nash

1360
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: and Young side, or like the anti Crosby side of

1361
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 1: this equation. Look, I think for me, if you look

1362
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: at the story, it's pretty clear that Crosby is like

1363
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 1: a major pain in the ass, and like if he

1364
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: was your friend or he was in your band, yeah,

1365
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any reason why you would react

1366
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: any differently than like Roger mcgwin did, or Graham Nash did,

1367
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: or Neil Young or any of these people who came

1368
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: to turn against him. As I said before, I think

1369
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: there's something in David Crosby's personality that just craves attention.

1370
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 1: You know that again is why he's so good on Twitter.

1371
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: He always has to have people hanging on his every word,

1372
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 1: and he feels bad if people aren't, you know, looking

1373
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 1: at him and giving him praise. So in order to

1374
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: do that, I just feel like he ends up hurting

1375
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 1: the people around him. And I think in the Neil

1376
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: Young story where he's like, you know, calling Darrell Hannah poisonous.

1377
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: You know, I think that was him trying to be

1378
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 1: a good interview. I think there was him trying to

1379
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: be compelling and like not really thinking like what the

1380
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:29,959
Speaker 1: weight of his words would be, or like him making

1381
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: a joke at Graham Nash's expense about his recent divorce.

1382
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 1: It's like he's trying to be funny, you know, He's

1383
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 1: trying to be provocative, and like he hurt the people

1384
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: that were closest to him in the process of doing that,

1385
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: and it just seems like he can't help himself. You know,

1386
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: he can't help hurting those people, even if he might

1387
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 1: know intellectually that it's like not the best thing for

1388
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 1: him to do. So, you know, even in a band

1389
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: like with as many egomaniacs in them as like C. S.

1390
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: N Y, I feel like Crosby stands alone as like

1391
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: the king egotist in this band. And um, while like

1392
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: you said, I think it's helped the band a lot,

1393
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: because yeah, he was the king of l A and

1394
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 1: I think he was able to martial a lot of

1395
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: resources because of that, it's also hurt him a lot,

1396
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: and in a way, I feel bad for him, although

1397
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: at the same time it's like he's brought a lot

1398
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 1: of this on himself. Yeah, I was trying to figure

1399
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: out if CSN would have continued in relative stability had

1400
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 1: they not welcomed Young, and I think Young probably hastened

1401
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: their demise a lot sooner. But I was trying to

1402
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: figure out, like, would things have gone almost as smoothly

1403
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 1: as they had for the first record that they made,

1404
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: And I just was thinking of Crossby's personality and not

1405
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: even to say his rug adiction, just his personality alone,

1406
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: and thinking, yeah, no, there would have been problems there

1407
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: fairly soon after, even Neil hadn't been in there, Cross

1408
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 1: would have blown that ship up real quick. Yeah, and

1409
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 1: he certainly blew up there. I guess Legacy era like

1410
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: when they were touring and you know, you could say

1411
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: that they weren't maybe terribly relevant creatively, but they were

1412
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 1: still making a lot of money on the road. But again,

1413
01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: maybe that was a good thing. You know. I think

1414
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 1: from Cross's perspective of as much as he might miss

1415
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: those guys, he's also going to say like, well, I'm

1416
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: making great records right now, you know, I'm looking forward

1417
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, so there's lots of ways to

1418
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: look at that. But you know, when we look at

1419
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 1: all these guys together and I guess, like, you know

1420
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 1: what CROs brings uh to the table? I mean, I think, ultimately,

1421
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: like Cross, like he is along with being the biggest

1422
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 1: like egotists in the band, I think he is like

1423
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 1: probably the biggest star I guess outside of Neil Young,

1424
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, like in terms of like the original three,

1425
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,919
Speaker 1: Crosby certainly now is the most famous out of there.

1426
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 1: And as you said before, I think he made a

1427
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: really good point about how like when you listen to

1428
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 1: the vocal blend, you don't necessarily notice Crosby right away,

1429
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 1: but like he is the glue of that harmony. And

1430
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 1: I think the uniqueness of his talent and his ability

1431
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 1: to be like a great compliment to the other people

1432
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 1: in that band, you know, they just wouldn't have been

1433
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: a CSN I think without Crosby. Yeah, I feel like

1434
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: the band gave him the perfect set of parameters to

1435
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 1: really excel and make good work because it was structured

1436
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:58,000
Speaker 1: enough to give him a reason the work, which if

1437
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,040
Speaker 1: you consider all the decades where he didn't put on

1438
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 1: any solo albums, it's a pretty good indication that he

1439
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have he's not that prolific on his own.

1440
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 1: The game a reason to show up, but it was

1441
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 1: also free form enough that he felt like he could

1442
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 1: experiment and try different ideas and also different incarnations like

1443
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 1: with Nash. Yes, but you know, it looks like at

1444
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 1: this point there will be no incarnations with anybody. I mean,

1445
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 1: do you, I mean, do you have any hope that

1446
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: like they're going to forgive Crosby at some point and

1447
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 1: do something together. I mean, I do have hope, especially

1448
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:28,759
Speaker 1: now with all the concerts being shut down. I'm hoping

1449
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 1: that kind of when everyone is able to get out

1450
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 1: and be together again, they kind of use as an

1451
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 1: opportunity to like, Okay, let's all join together musically, ourselves

1452
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 1: on stage and the community in front of us in

1453
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 1: the audience. I'm hoping. I don't know, it just it

1454
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 1: seems like that I know it's personal as opposed to well,

1455
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 1: some of the arguments before were more professional music based,

1456
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 1: and this is something so heartful about somebody's romantic partner.

1457
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 1: But I hope that as they're getting up there in

1458
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: years and they can move past this. He's apologized enough

1459
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 1: times yeah, well, we'll see if the hostility is a

1460
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: long time gone by that time and they're able to

1461
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:03,759
Speaker 1: come back together. Always have to work in the corny

1462
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 1: joke incorporating a song title at the end of another

1463
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 1: Rivals episode. Like we said, this is the first part

1464
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 1: of our Crosby Stills National Young Series. We're gonna be

1465
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: talking about Steven Stills next week, which I'm really excited about.

1466
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: It's gonna be Part two, and then in part three

1467
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: it's gonna be Neil Young. So lots of fun Laurel

1468
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 1: Canyon cocaine fueled adventures ahead of us. I'm very excited

1469
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 1: to get into it. Until then, thanks for listening to

1470
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 1: another episode of Rivals. We will be back with more

1471
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: beefs and feuds in long simming resentments next week. Rivals

1472
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:41,799
Speaker 1: is a production of My Heart Radio. The executive producers

1473
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 1: are Shaun Titone and Noel Brown. The supervising producers are

1474
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 1: Taylor chi Con and Tristan McNeil. The producer is Joel

1475
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: hat Stat. I'm Jordan run Talk. I'm Stephen Hyden. If

1476
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:52,640
Speaker 1: you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave us

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Speaker 1: a review. For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit

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Speaker 1: the I heart radio, app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.