1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:01,280 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 2: I'm Buzznight, the host of the Taking a Walk Podcast. Now, 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: what do Pink Floyd, a Bulgarian woman's choir, and a 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: Kingston recording studio have in common? The answer is going 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 2: to be our next guest here on Taking a Walk. 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 2: His name is Joe Boyd. He didn't just produce some 7 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: of the most influential albums in rock history. He has 8 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 2: spent six decades chasing sounds that most of us will 9 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 2: never hear, from village squares and Hungary to underground clubs 10 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: in Havana, always asking the same question, what happens to 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: music when the world tries to forget it. He's got 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: a new book, and The Roots and Rhythm Remain. It's 13 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: part memoir, part musical archaeology, and part love letter to 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 2: the rhythms that refuse to die. Joe Boyd is next 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: on the Taking a Walk Podcast. Taking a Walk, Joe Boyd, 16 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast. It's so nice 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: to be with you. 18 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: Wow, it's great to be here. 19 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: We're going to talk about in the Roots and Rhythm 20 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 2: Remain your amazing book. But first we like to start 21 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: the podcast with a hypothetical question. The question is since 22 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 2: the podcast is called taking a Walk and we're not 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: walking in person. Is there somebody, Joe, you would like 24 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 2: to take a walk with living deceased? Who would that be? 25 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: Where would you take the walk? 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 3: Wow, gosh, there's so many people. I mean, you know, 27 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,639 Speaker 3: you give me such a huge scope to take a walk. Well, 28 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 3: you know, I guess of all the deceased people that 29 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 3: I would most like to talk to on a walk, 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 3: I'd like to take a walk around New Orleans with 31 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 3: Jelly Roll Morton. That would be a kind of dream 32 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 3: because he was such an incredible storyteller. And to find 33 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 3: out that sort of moment in American musical history when 34 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 3: rag time and Latin, Spanish music and Cuban music all 35 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 3: met the blues in New Orleans and jazz emerged. You know, 36 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 3: it's such a seminal moment, and to get first hand 37 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 3: reports would be would be great if it was a 38 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 3: living person, you know, I have in mind. I haven't 39 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: in my plans for the coming year, I'm definitely going 40 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 3: to try and spend a little time with Chris Blackwell, 41 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 3: who was, you know, a very important person in my 42 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: life and you know, he really kind of believed in 43 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 3: me and gave me the financial support to make the 44 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 3: Nick Drake Records, the Fairport Records, Sandy Denny Records, all 45 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 3: that stuff, very early in my career. And he's he's 46 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 3: you know, I'm add three. He's five years or six 47 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 3: years older than me, and I just like what to 48 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 3: be sure, I got to spend some time talking with 49 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 3: him walking around Jamaica. I love that, talking to the 50 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 3: local talking to the local rosters. He always knows all 51 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 3: the street guys. You know, he knows everybody. He doesn't 52 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 3: he doesn't live in a bubble. 53 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 2: Chris, Oh, that's great. I love it. Well, Joe, you've 54 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: had one of the most remarkable careers in music history. 55 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: I'm producing Pink Floyd Nick Drake to discovering Fairport Convention. 56 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: What drew you to this particular book, now, I mean 57 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: it took you a while. This book is a monster, 58 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: so it didn't just happen and appear on your desk. 59 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: But why focus on these specific musical traditions? 60 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 3: I guess the combination of reasons. I always liked writing. 61 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 3: I mean I used to write outraged letters to the 62 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 3: editor and they got published. You know, I got published 63 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 3: in the New York Times, in the guardian sometimes, you know, 64 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: mister Angry of Princeton, New Jersey. But then I wrote 65 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 3: White Bicycles, and I really enjoyed the process, and I 66 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 3: really liked, you know, going out and talking about the 67 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 3: book and traveling around and kind of being my own guy. 68 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 3: You know, I was I'd been looking after musicians all 69 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: my life, and all of a sudden, I was looking 70 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 3: after this writer, guy who did everything I told him to, 71 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 3: you know, so I knew I wanted to write another book. 72 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 3: It didn't take me very long to figure out that 73 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 3: I would write this book, because I guess I was 74 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 3: very aware of and I like telling people things that 75 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 3: they don't know. They think they know what they don't know. 76 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 3: And one of the things that had been sort of 77 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 3: intriguing me was the way when Paul Simon released Graceland, 78 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 3: people were upset about breaking the Boy. You know, there 79 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 3: was the class with the anc there was all of that. 80 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 3: But at the same time, people then discovered Lady Smith, 81 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 3: Black Mambaso, and they discovered Maclatini and the mahotel A Queens. 82 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 3: And I felt this audience, this western, you know, middle 83 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 3: class white audience in Britain and America and Europe, whenever 84 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 3: they bought Ladysmith blackmun Baso record, they felt virtuous. It 85 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 3: was sort of like showing their support from Mandela and 86 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: black South African culture. And they didn't realize that in 87 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 3: South Africa Lady Smith, Black Mambaso and Maclatini represented the 88 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 3: enemies of the ANC and Mandela. They represented the Zulus, 89 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 3: and the Zulus were being armed by the apartheid government 90 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 3: to fight the ANC, and it was very complicated. And 91 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 3: I just thought, well, here's a classic example. Here's music 92 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 3: which is wonderful, which could I could explain a lot 93 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 3: more about the roots of that music, but also tell 94 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 3: people something they don't know about the political context and 95 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 3: the social context and the stories here. And then when 96 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 3: I realized that malcol McLaren in his Duck Rock project, 97 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 3: you know, went to Johannesburg and used basically the same 98 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 3: musicians that Paul Simon used three years later on Graceland, 99 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 3: that's another little twist to the tale. And so I thought, yeah, 100 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 3: this would be fun to dig into some of these 101 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 3: stories of music that people know but they don't know 102 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 3: the backstory. And I'd also I tried to work with 103 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 3: I've done a record where I brought Cuban musicians to 104 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 3: New Orleans, and the record didn't make a big impact. 105 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 3: It was sort of semi successful artistically, but it was 106 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 3: fascinating to watch the Cuban and the New Orleans musicians 107 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 3: in the studio together because they had such a different 108 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 3: concept of rhythm. And I was intrigued by that by like, 109 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 3: Havannah and New Orleans are like next door to each other, 110 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 3: but yet the sensibility is so different. And I started 111 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: digging into the history of that. How come African American 112 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 3: culture is so different from Afro Cuban culture, And that 113 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 3: turned out to be a fascinating story, And so I 114 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: decided there was a book in the hits, the sort 115 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 3: of global music hits, Samba, mambo, tango, Eastern European gypsy music, 116 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 3: Indian ragas, reggae, you know, the ones that everybody knows 117 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 3: but they don't really know where it comes from and 118 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 3: who are the story what are the stories behind it? 119 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 3: So I said that it's going to be a fun project. 120 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: I didn't think it was going to take me seventeen years, 121 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 3: but that's how I came to do it. 122 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: Seventeen years. 123 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 4: All right, Well, that is a resilience in the writing world, 124 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 4: for sure. How important was somebody like as far as 125 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 4: the Cuban part of the story, how important was somebody 126 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 4: like Ry Cooter and Buena Vista Social Club what he 127 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 4: put together in sort of taking that to a foreground 128 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 4: in America. 129 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 3: One of the themes in my book is that the explosion 130 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 3: of interest in the late eighties and the nineties in 131 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: the so called West in what we called world music, 132 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:54,719 Speaker 3: it was great. I mean I was right in the 133 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 3: middle of it. It was very exciting. I heard some 134 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 3: fantastic concerts, there were some great music released on record. 135 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: It was a wonderful thing. But it was only the 136 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: most recent manifestation of something that's been going on forever. 137 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 3: And so I would say that in terms of broad impact, 138 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: eres Prado and the Mambo, and the Afrocuban All Stars 139 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 3: in the forties playing at the Palladium and the pot Vendor, 140 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 3: you know, being a worldwide hit in the early thirties, 141 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 3: these were much more impactful across the breath of Western 142 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 3: culture than Buenavis the Social Club and Buenavs the Social Club. 143 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 3: One of the fascinating things about it is that the 144 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 3: Cubans hated it. You know, they really didn't like it 145 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 3: at all. They thought, and as I say say in 146 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 3: the book, that it's a bit as if you know, 147 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 3: the rest of the world said to Britain, we're not 148 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 3: interested in massive attack court radio head, that we don't 149 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 3: like those people. We're we're falling in love with this 150 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 3: group of banjo and accordion players, who do you know, 151 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 3: music hall songs from the thirties. And that was the 152 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 3: Cuban view was this was yesterday's music. This was old 153 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 3: fashioned music. And not only that, but the way that 154 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 3: Ry Cooter and Nick Gold it was his co producer, 155 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 3: the way they recorded those musicians. They didn't have much drums. 156 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 3: They only had a little bit of bongo. They didn't 157 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 3: have a conga drum. So it was very emasculated from 158 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: a Cuban point of view. And so and then you know, 159 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 3: they just thought it was tourist music. And one of 160 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 3: the statistics that I cite in the book, which is 161 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 3: I found so interesting, was, you know, sold ten million 162 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 3: copies at Want a Grammy Latin radio and America. How 163 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 3: many radio plays did it get? 164 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: Zero? 165 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: Big zilch, Yeah. 166 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 3: Big zilch. Latin radio had no interest in it. So 167 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 3: it was a phenomenon, but it was kind of a 168 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 3: strange corner pocket phenomenon, you know. And it's a globally record, 169 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 3: I mean, you know. And it's also I love telling 170 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: the story in the book about the way it came 171 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 3: to be, which was an accident because you know, Ry 172 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 3: and Nick Gold had this idea of exploring the commonalities 173 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 3: between Cuban music and Mali, the music of Mali from 174 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 3: you know, North Africa, from Africa, and they booked the 175 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 3: studio with that project for that project, and the Mallians 176 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 3: didn't get on the plane because some big guy who 177 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 3: was giving away mercedes arrived in Bamaco and he loves 178 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 3: musicians and he wanted a big concert and he was 179 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 3: lashing out huge, huge amounts of money to musicians right 180 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 3: and left, and they didn't want to leave town and 181 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 3: miss that. And so so Ry and Nick were stuck 182 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 3: in Havana with a studio booked and all these Cuban 183 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 3: musicians there, what are we going to do? Well, let's 184 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 3: record something, you know, And so they just started and 185 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 3: it's a great example of I mean, God, hats off 186 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 3: to them because I think they just didn't blink. They 187 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 3: just move forward and immediately found things that they loved 188 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 3: and got very excited by. And I love the image 189 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 3: of Rye right had a little pocket recorder and he 190 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,599 Speaker 3: would wander around the studio listening to the musicians. He 191 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 3: told them to like, figure out tunes that they really 192 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 3: liked that they and he'd go around recording little bits 193 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 3: of it, and then he'd go home to his hotel 194 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 3: and staff all night listening to this and trying to 195 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 3: decide what they would record the next day. So, you know, 196 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 3: God bless them. You know. 197 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 2: The title of the book and the roots in Rhythm 198 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: remain it suggests, obviously, you know, permanence and continuity. What 199 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: does the phrase mean to you personally? And what do 200 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 2: you hope readers take away from it? 201 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 3: Well, it's a quote from a lyric. It's Paul Simon 202 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 3: wrote that phrase and from under African skies on Graceland. 203 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 3: And this is how we begin to remember. This is 204 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 3: the coursing of love in the vein, you know, calling 205 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 3: your name out. And the roots of the rhythm, these 206 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 3: are the roots of the rhythm, and the roots of 207 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 3: rhythm remain. It's a very beautiful stanza and it's uh, 208 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 3: you know, it's poetry, so you can't pin it down 209 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 3: to a literal meaning exactly, you know I did. I 210 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 3: had a wonderful interview with Paul for the book, and 211 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 3: he originally said, listen, I'm tired of talking about Graceland. 212 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 3: You know that was a long time ago. I've done 213 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 3: so many interviews. But you know I've known you for 214 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 3: a long time. I'll give you fifteen minutes, and we 215 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 3: ended up talking for two and a half hours. He 216 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 3: told me that he recorded these tracks in Johannesburg with 217 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 3: no lyrics. Yeah, he was just fascinated by the music 218 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 3: and he would try different chord changes, chord progressions, and 219 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 3: you know, try it with these great South Africa musicians. 220 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 3: And then he took these tapes back to New York 221 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 3: and he listened to them and he said they were 222 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 3: so good, they were so strong that he was intimidated. 223 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 3: He couldn't even start to write lyrics. And finally, after 224 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 3: about four or five six months, he started writing lyrics, 225 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 3: and he felt they're probably the best lyrics he ever wrote. 226 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 3: And I think they are. They're wonderful lyrics. They're extraordinary. 227 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 3: Some of them they're bom baby carriage, I mean, prescient stuff. 228 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 3: And that line. I love that. I just always love 229 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 3: that line. You know, this is how we begin to remember. 230 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 3: This is the coursing of love of the vein, and 231 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 3: the roots of rhythm remain. And I think that's you know, 232 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 3: to me, music lives in rhythm. That's why I've always 233 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 3: struggled a bit with a lot of records that people 234 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 3: call fusion. You know, when you combine Western you know, 235 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 3: Western music musicians with music from Africa or Latin America 236 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 3: or Eastern Europe or the Middle East. Very often, to me, 237 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 3: they turned it around. They kind of lay down a 238 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 3: kind of track of Western dance music or pop music 239 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 3: or guitaristrum, and then they overdubbed the exotic stuff on it. 240 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 3: To me, that's a waste, because the most interesting thing 241 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 3: about other cultures is the rhythms. And if you start 242 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 3: with the rhythm. And that's why Paul Simon I have 243 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 3: so much respect for him. That's what he did with 244 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 3: Mother and Child Reunion. He went to Jamaica and he 245 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 3: recorded a track pure reggae, and then he wrote a 246 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 3: song on top of that. He put the the West 247 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 3: on top of the rhythm of the other culture. And 248 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 3: he did the same in Graceland. He did the same 249 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 3: with El Condor Passa. He takes the music on its 250 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 3: rhythmic basis and pays it that respect. And I think 251 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 3: that's that's what I like anyway. 252 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 2: And so. 253 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 3: It's a totemic phrase as far as I'm concerned. 254 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taking a 255 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 256 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: So we produced this other podcast. My friend Lynn Hoffman 257 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 2: hosts it called Music Save Me, and it's really about 258 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 2: the I think we believe that there's healing power to 259 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 2: music and the rhythms. And your book explores explores music 260 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: from obviously Cuba, Bulgaria, Hungary, West Africa, Jamaica and beyond. 261 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 2: So when you examine it across all cultures, do you 262 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 2: think music has with the rhythms a healing power. 263 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean I'm not going to go into 264 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 3: like actual curing of diseases, you know, but you know, 265 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 3: those are some peak experiences for me in my life, 266 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 3: you know, as being in a room with great music 267 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 3: being performed live and there's a feeling that you get 268 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 3: from it which is pretty irreplaceable. I mean area you know, 269 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 3: it's it's not comfortable to anything else. It's it's a 270 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 3: kind of elation and a kind of joy and kind 271 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: of lifting you out of yourself into a kind of realm, 272 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 3: which you know, I don't know about spiritual, but it's 273 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 3: definitely if there is a sort of holy realm. That's 274 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 3: the closest I get is listening to too great music. 275 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: Your chapter on the Bulgarian women's choirs is incredible. How 276 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 2: did you first encounter that sound? And what was it 277 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 2: about those harmonies that captivated you and you fell in love. 278 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 3: With I In nineteen sixty five, I'd had a lot 279 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 3: of I was good friends with a guy called Paul 280 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 3: Rothschild who has worked for Electra Records. He produced the 281 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 3: Butterfield Band and The Doors and he worked with me. 282 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 3: He and I was the production manager at Newport in 283 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 3: sixty five, and I brought Paul up and he was 284 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 3: the guy at the sound controls when Dylan was electric. 285 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 3: I was on stage. He was at the sound controls 286 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 3: and we were both under attack from Alan Lomas and 287 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 3: it's eger turn it down, turn it down. And anyway, 288 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 3: we had a bond, and he felt he wanted to 289 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 3: get me into Electra and so he persuaded Jack Holtzman, 290 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 3: the owner of the label, to hire me to go 291 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 3: to England, where I'd spent quite a bit of time 292 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 3: and open an Electra office there and try and promote 293 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 3: Electra's records there. And the week that I went to England, 294 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 3: Electra released a record on their none Such Explorer series 295 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 3: called the Music of Bulgaria by the Philip Kutev Ensemble. 296 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 3: I later discovered how that came to be, which was 297 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 3: that Albert Grossman, who was Dylan's manager. It's all very 298 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: small worlds now, in this time of day, in this 299 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: time of musical history. Albert Grossman had been in Paris 300 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 3: and had gone to a dinner at somebody's friend's flat, 301 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: and somebody had played a record in the flat of 302 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 3: the Kuchev ensemble, and Grossman went berserk, and he said, 303 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 3: what is this record? You know? And he looked at 304 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 3: the cover and he saw that the address of the 305 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 3: label was in Paris. It was the Chant Dumont label. 306 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 3: It was a kind of side project of the Communist 307 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 3: Party of France. And so we went there the next 308 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 3: day and pulled out two thousand bucks and bought the 309 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:44,959 Speaker 3: American rights and took the tape back to America and 310 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 3: when he was negotiating the deal for Paul Butterfield with 311 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 3: Jack Holtzman. Eventually they got to a deal and Grossman said, okay, 312 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 3: I'll accept the deal on condition that you released this record. 313 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 3: And he handed gross Did the colts of the tape 314 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 3: and hopefully listen to the tape and said, Wow, this 315 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 3: is great. I'd love to release it. And that was 316 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 3: the music of Bulgaria I later discovered. I mean when 317 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 3: I first heard it, I just said, wow, this is great. 318 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 3: And you know, around that time, a lot of hippies 319 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 3: bought that record. There was a thing, you know, to 320 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 3: put on your headphones, ride up a joint and trip 321 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 3: out on the kutev ensemble in the Bulgarian women's choir. 322 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 3: It's an incredible sound, and I was you couldn't imagine 323 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 3: where it came from. I mean, where does this come from? 324 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 3: You couldn't imagine it. And then twenty years later I 325 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,479 Speaker 3: ended up going to Bulgaria and going to this huge 326 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 3: festival on the side of a mountain and hearing village 327 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 3: women singing with this kind of open throat voice, which 328 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 3: is so interesting because it's like a shout. There's no 329 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 3: vibrato it's a straight note, which is why they can 330 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 3: have such close harmonies. If you had these seconds and one, 331 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 3: you know, adjacent notes to each other in a harmony 332 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 3: the way they do, and you were singing in a 333 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 3: bellcanto vibrato voice, it would sound like a train wreck 334 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 3: because the note is very straight and doesn't wobble, you know, 335 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 3: it sounds it actually works. And what I later discovered, 336 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 3: which is what I wrote about, which is partly inspired 337 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 3: my writing about it, was that I was always puzzled 338 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 3: and I said, wow, this stuff is so great. And 339 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 3: every time I heard another Eastern European folk ensemble like 340 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 3: the check you know People's Choir or the Polish People's 341 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 3: Choir or what ever, it was always kitch boring kind 342 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 3: of stuff. And when I heard the Russian one Moisiev choir, 343 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 3: I thought that, well, that's really stupid. It's very acrobatic, 344 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 3: he's dancing, but the music is really silly. How is 345 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 3: it that Bulgaria has this great music and nobody else 346 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 3: in the Soviet block does? And I discovered it was 347 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 3: so fascinating that Kutev loved the music of the villages 348 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 3: and the voices of the villagers, the women in the villages, 349 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 3: and he recruited them from the village into the choir, 350 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 3: taught them how to read music. In Russia, Stalin had 351 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 3: hired Moisiev to start the ensemble because he wanted to 352 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 3: destroy peasant music. He wanted to invent a new peasant music, 353 00:23:54,280 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 3: and so no peasants are wherever in Moisiev's choir. The 354 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 3: choir was all like the second stringers from the Bolshoy, 355 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 3: you know, they were classically trained singers from the cities, 356 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 3: and the whole thing was fake lore. It was just 357 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 3: all invented. And so I loved that whole thing about 358 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 3: Bulgaria being the outlier in the Eastern Block, that they 359 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 3: really loved their own folk music and they did up, 360 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,479 Speaker 3: you know, whereas the Soviets were trying to suppress peasant 361 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 3: culture because the peasants didn't like collectivisation, they rebelled against 362 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 3: Stalin and he wanted to destroy them. So it's a 363 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 3: story where music and politics overlaps, which was of course 364 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 3: meat and drink from me when I was looking for 365 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 3: writing my book. 366 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: You had a front row seat to the ska and 367 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 2: the reggae explosion in Jamaica, and I wonder if you 368 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 2: look back and you realized that that that or did 369 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 2: you realize at that time that you were witnessing something 370 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 2: that was pretty revolutionary. 371 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 3: Well, I don't know if I had a I mean, 372 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 3: I you know, I was producing records for Ireland for 373 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 3: Chris Blackwell, and Chris I knew, I mean, he was 374 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 3: at Jamaican. He loved Jamaica. I loved Jamaica culture, and 375 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 3: I knew that he had a dream of making Jamaican 376 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,719 Speaker 3: music go worldwide. And he'd had a little taste of 377 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 3: it with my boy Lollipop back in the mid sixty four. 378 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 3: You know, he had this big hit with Millie. But 379 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 3: you know, I was like most people in the sixties. 380 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 3: There was a lot of Jamaican music around Britain, but 381 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 3: most people didn't listen to it. You know, it was considered. 382 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 3: You know. The people who liked it were the skinheads. 383 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 3: They liked ska and they would have these and they 384 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,719 Speaker 3: were like war you know, they shaved their heads and 385 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: had tattoos on their skulls, and we're very unpleasant people. 386 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 3: And we thought thought, if they liked this music, why 387 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 3: should we. And it wasn't until I had a weekend 388 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy one when I visited Chris Blackwell and Bahamas. 389 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 3: Paul Rogers, who was the lead singer of Free Then 390 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 3: and Bad Company, he was there and we had a 391 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 3: great weekend. And then Sunday night we were sitting there, 392 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 3: Chris had fed us beautifully. We had a wonderful day, 393 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 3: and we're passing the joint around and he said, you 394 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 3: guy's ever heard tts of the Mateles And we said, no, 395 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 3: who's that? And he said okay, and he dropped the 396 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 3: record on the turntable, put on the knee one. Rogers 397 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 3: and I just sat there shaking our heads, like this 398 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 3: music is unbelievable. It's so cool, it's so good. We'd 399 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 3: never imagine that Jamaican music was that good. And then 400 00:26:54,840 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 3: like six months later Chris signed Bob Marley and the 401 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 3: Whalers and started work with them on their first record. 402 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 3: And then around the same time, the Heart of They 403 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 3: Come came out of the film, and so suddenly there 404 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 3: was like from different angles, there was all these revelations 405 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 3: about how amazing to make and culture was, and how 406 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 3: amazing this music was. And I never really had any 407 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 3: kind of key role in disseminating it or making it popular, 408 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 3: but in nineteen seventy six. Chris wanted to work with 409 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 3: Bob with Tutz the way he worked with Bob Marley, 410 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 3: but Marley got jealous and said, no, come on, Chris, 411 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 3: We've got work to do. Come to Nassau. And Tutz 412 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 3: was already in London with his tapes, and so Chris 413 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 3: asked me to finish working on this record to sell people. 414 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 3: Reggie got sold one of the greatest speriences of my 415 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 3: life in the studio, it was just such an amazing experience. 416 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 3: And the record is one you know, I say, there's 417 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,479 Speaker 3: probably two records that I made that I can listen 418 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 3: to from beginning to end, and I frequently do and 419 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 3: never think to myself, Oh, I wish I'd brought that 420 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 3: off just a little bit more, or Ooh I wish 421 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 3: I'd edited that a little differently, or oh, you know, 422 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 3: why didn't I do that a little better? And that 423 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 3: reggae got sold as one and writer later by Nick 424 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 3: Drake or the other. 425 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 5: So in closing, after all of your travels and all 426 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 5: of the music that you've experienced, is there still a 427 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 5: sound or a tradition out there that you're fascinated and 428 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 5: just desperate to explore. 429 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm realistic about first of all, the 430 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 3: music industry. There are very few labels out there have 431 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 3: the budget to send me an engineer out to record. 432 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 3: I mean, I am fascinated. I've always loved little I 433 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 3: don't have. My collection is not very big, but I 434 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 3: do have a few records of the music of the 435 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 3: South Pacific, you know, from Tahiti and places like that, 436 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 3: and I would love to go really record find the 437 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: best musicians. I stumbled onto a into a lobby of 438 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 3: a hotel in San Francisco in the mid seventies, and 439 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 3: there was a group of Taishan tourists who were staying 440 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,719 Speaker 3: at the hotel, and they were having a party in 441 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 3: the lobby and they were singing. It was just the 442 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 3: most glorious sound I've ever heard. I couldn't believe it. 443 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 3: And I started talking in French to this girl that 444 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 3: was singing there, and she said, Oh, we're not any good, 445 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 3: We're just people, We're just tourists. And then she also 446 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 3: said she I never forgot this, she said. I said, 447 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 3: how are you enjoying your trip? She said, well, we've 448 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 3: been to Detroit, we've been to Chicago, we've been now 449 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 3: we're in San Francisco. I said, well, how do you 450 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 3: like the America. She said, well, it's fascinating. We've met 451 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 3: lots of great people. But and she looked around. She 452 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 3: waved her hand around San Francisco and she said, but 453 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 3: it's so ugly. And I said, I want to go 454 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 3: to Tahiti. If you think, if you think San Francisco 455 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 3: is ugly, I want to go to Tahiti because that 456 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 3: must be fantastic. So, yeah, that would be that would 457 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 3: I guess that would be one of the things on 458 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 3: my But there's so many there's so much music in 459 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 3: the world, you know, I could spend another lifetime, you know, 460 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 3: traveling around making records. 461 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 2: Never say never, Joe Boyd, My god, you know, if 462 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 2: you love music, this is this is something you've got 463 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 2: to pick up in the roots and rhythm remain. Joe 464 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 2: boy takes us through a fascinating piece of music history 465 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: in the world that continues to unfold. And Joe, thank 466 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: you for it, and thank you for being. 467 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 3: On, Thank you for having me. 468 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 469 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 470 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 471 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 472 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.