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Speaker 1: Pushkin. We have quite a story for you today, But

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Speaker 1: before we begin, a warning. This episode contains themes of

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Speaker 1: drug use. Listener discretion is advised. Yeah. Oh, finally, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to tell you about my billboard in Times Square.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, you're jelly. You want to billboard too?

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Speaker 2: I feel like you like it.

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Speaker 1: What gives you that impression?

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Speaker 3: Your relationship with being you know, famous, I'm sure is

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Speaker 3: something as an artist that you use.

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Speaker 1: Wait, hang on a second. Did you just say that

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Speaker 1: I was famous? It sounds like you did and something

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Speaker 1: of an artist?

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Speaker 4: I said, you.

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Speaker 3: Wanting to be famous and your relationships are wanting to

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Speaker 3: be famous?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember you?

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Speaker 3: Are you recording?

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Speaker 1: Because I said, do you remember asking? I'm recording you

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Speaker 1: in my memory?

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Speaker 3: Am I going to hear this on the radio?

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Speaker 1: You're definitely not going to hear this on the radio.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Actually just got a radio the podcast, right?

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Speaker 1: You know that I do a podcast? Am I on speakerphone?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 1: Because you know when you put someone on speakerphone, you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to tell them From Pushkin Industries, I'm Jonathan Goldstein

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Speaker 1: and this is Heavyweight Today's episode, Meredith. Right after the break,

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Speaker 1: I consider myself a fair person. If a plumber enters

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Speaker 1: my home, I offer him or her a cup of

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Speaker 1: coffee when presented with a bowl of restaurant mints, even

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Speaker 1: when unobserved, I make sure to leave a few for

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Speaker 1: the next guy. And if you have the good fortune

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Speaker 1: of eating tapas with me, you should know right now

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Speaker 1: you'll be eating at least half the plate. So in Meredith,

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Speaker 1: a fellow Minnesotan, asked me to weigh in on a

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Speaker 1: matter of fairness. I was raring to go. And so

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Speaker 1: it is on a sunny day in late March that

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Speaker 1: I find myself pulling up to Meredith's Hi. Yes it

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Speaker 1: is hello. Nice to me, Hi. Meredith ushers me inside.

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Speaker 2: I thought you'd have like bigger hair.

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Speaker 1: I have no hair?

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Speaker 2: Really? Has it always been that way?

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Speaker 1: Have I been? I was born bald. Yeah. As Meredith

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Speaker 1: acclimatizes herself to my unexpected baldness, we settle in.

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Speaker 5: Okay, I'm got to get some coffee.

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Speaker 2: Have I gotta have cup?

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Speaker 1: How much coffee have you had today?

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Speaker 2: Can you tell?

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Speaker 1: Meredith fetches her fourth cup this morning, and I have

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Speaker 1: a look around. She just moved in here three months ago,

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Speaker 1: but the house is already feeling homie. You have a

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Speaker 1: quote from the Dali Lama on the This was a.

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Speaker 6: Gift to me from my Gallantines party. There are only

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Speaker 6: two days in the year that nothing can be done.

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Speaker 6: One is called yesterday and the other is called tomorrow.

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Speaker 6: So today is the right day to love, believe, do,

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Speaker 6: and mostly live well.

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Speaker 1: No offense to the Dali Lama, but I've built a

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Speaker 1: career on the idea that something can be done yesterday,

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Speaker 1: or at least about yesterday. And so I have Meredith

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Speaker 1: tell me about her past misfortune, which all began, she says,

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Speaker 1: three years ago on a Saturday morning.

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Speaker 6: You have to understand that a I'm a sweet tooth, okay.

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Speaker 6: And the second really important piece of information is that

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Speaker 6: my sister in law owned a candy store.

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Speaker 1: This sister in law routinely sent boxes of candy to

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Speaker 1: Meredith's three children, and because of the whole sweet tooth thing,

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Speaker 1: Meredith would tell her kids to keep the candy in

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Speaker 1: their room. That way, she'd only have access when she

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Speaker 1: was in their rooms tidying up. The agreement even had

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Speaker 1: a name.

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Speaker 6: I would take what I would call the candy tacks

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Speaker 6: as a price of me helping them clean up their room.

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Speaker 1: And cleaning up is what Meredith was doing on the

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Speaker 1: Saturday morning in question. She was in Aidan's bedroom. Aidan

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Speaker 1: is her son seventeen at the time, and Meredith was

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Speaker 1: hunting for his leftover cereal bulls.

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Speaker 6: When I saw on the table some peach rings, you know,

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Speaker 6: those like little chewy gummy candy.

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Speaker 1: I know them well right, They're.

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Speaker 6: Really tasty, and I shoved them in my mouth like

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Speaker 6: num num numb.

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Speaker 1: Meredith finished Aiden's entire bag of peach rings candy tacks.

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Speaker 1: From there, she moved on to her daughter's room to

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Speaker 1: continue cleaning.

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Speaker 6: And it was about thirty minutes later when I started

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Speaker 6: to feel a little bit, you know, like a little

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Speaker 6: bit oh, something's not quite right.

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Speaker 1: At that moment, a thought popped into Meredith's mind. What

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Speaker 1: if the peach rings weren't just peach rings?

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Speaker 6: Maybe a small detail. Most times peach rings look like

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Speaker 6: orange and white. These were purple and blue. But I

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Speaker 6: didn't think anything of it other than, oh, it must

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Speaker 6: be a different version of peach rings.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they're flavored blueberry.

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Speaker 1: Sure, those blueberry flavored peach rings. Then there was also

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Speaker 1: where she'd found the blueberry flavored peach.

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Speaker 2: Rings in a ziploc bag.

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Speaker 1: They don't usually come in a zip block.

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Speaker 2: They don't usually come in a ziplock.

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Speaker 1: How big was the ziploc bag? Like those little like

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Speaker 1: the kind you would put drugs in.

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Speaker 2: No, Jonathan, the kind you put a sandwich in.

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Speaker 1: Meredith just thought Aiden had put the gummies in a

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Speaker 1: ziploc to, you know, preserve freshness. But now, as her

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Speaker 1: head began to swim, she thought a new thought.

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Speaker 6: And in the moment of time it took me to

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Speaker 6: think that thought. My knees buckled. I dropped on all

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Speaker 6: fours because whatever was coming for me hit me like

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Speaker 6: a freight train, a.

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Speaker 1: Freight train freighted with box car after box car of

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Speaker 1: gelatinous marijuana.

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Speaker 6: My son comes running up the stairs and I yelled

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Speaker 6: to him what was in those gummies? All he says

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Speaker 6: is what were you doing in my room? I then

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Speaker 6: say what was in those gummies? He says how many

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Speaker 6: did you eat? And I was a member trembling. I

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Speaker 6: was said all of them? How much was in those?

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Speaker 6: He's like, mom, twenty five milligrams each.

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Speaker 1: Meredith had eaten four peach gummies. That is one hundred

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Speaker 1: milligrams of weed.

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Speaker 6: I'm the person that takes the gummy that somebody gives

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Speaker 6: you at five and starts shaving it down.

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Speaker 2: So I knew, like two and a half is my limit.

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Speaker 1: She'd ingested forty times her limit.

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Speaker 2: And then I start yelling, well, you just killed your mother.

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Speaker 6: The next several hours I can't only describe as kind

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Speaker 6: of coming floating in and out of consciousness. I mean

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Speaker 6: I have moments of sort of dream like I was

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Speaker 6: in a forest running and then the tree roots started

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Speaker 6: coming up and grapping around my legs.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's not fun.

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Speaker 6: Trees twist around your legs and are trying to like

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Speaker 6: suck you down to the earth, Like what is that?

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Speaker 1: Meredith didn't if she needed to go to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: She wondered if she would die. She phoned a few

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Speaker 1: friends to ask them to check up on her throughout

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Speaker 1: the day.

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Speaker 2: You know, by like boy style.

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Speaker 1: Because you weren't even capable of using the regular dialing.

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Speaker 6: Jonathan, I couldn't move my fingers enough to get the

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Speaker 6: right buttons. It's like laying there with a piano on.

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Speaker 1: You, her friends later told her. She kept repeating things

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Speaker 1: like am I going to be okay? And God helped me?

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Speaker 2: All in all, twenty three hours.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's like longer than labor.

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Speaker 2: It felt, it felt in some ways eternal.

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Speaker 1: Sometime around ten am the next morning, Meredith finally began

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Speaker 1: to feel herself coming down, and with that the anger

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Speaker 1: set in. Anger at her seventeen year old son, aidan.

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Speaker 2: Well, now we got to deal with the problem.

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Speaker 1: You didn't know that he kept drugs in the house.

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Speaker 2: No, I did not know.

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Speaker 1: Meredith says she'd always had open conversations with her kids

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Speaker 1: about drugs and alcohol, but for the kids to keep

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Speaker 1: drugs in the house was not allowed. And on top

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Speaker 1: of that, leaving them out in the open when he

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Speaker 1: knew about the candy tacks, how could Aiden have been

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Speaker 1: so careless? And what made it all the more upsetting, Well,

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Speaker 1: Meredith was on all fours.

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Speaker 6: Aiden flees, He's like, I got to go to work,

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Speaker 6: and I'm just left here having to somewhat fend for myself.

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Speaker 1: Was a part of you proud that you had raised

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Speaker 1: a son who honored his work responsibilities.

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Speaker 6: He was so committed to his work at Piepchang's that

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Speaker 6: his mom took the back burner.

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Speaker 2: You know, I probably did writ as a kid with

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Speaker 2: a good work ethic. I'll give him that.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing that three years later, Meredith still

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Speaker 1: can't get over. Aidan refused to apologize. Instead, over and

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Speaker 1: over he uttered the same refrain.

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Speaker 2: This is not my fault.

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Speaker 1: Aidan felt like this was on you.

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Speaker 6: Aiden one hundred percent felt this was on me, and

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Speaker 6: that no other parent would be that clueless.

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Speaker 1: Meredith admits she is the sort of person who often

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Speaker 1: gets herself into these kinds of noodles.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I've got a feel.

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Speaker 6: I rescued a stray dog that was loose from a yard.

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Speaker 1: What happened was Meredith's dog was routinely escaping her yard,

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Speaker 1: and people around the area would post about it on

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Speaker 1: next door, writing comments like who can't control their dog?

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Speaker 1: And Meredith, your dog is out again. She felt publicly shamed,

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Speaker 1: and so when she saw someone else's dog that was lost,

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Speaker 1: it felt like a chance to reclaim the respect of

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Speaker 1: her neighbors.

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Speaker 2: And I proceeded to pick it up.

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Speaker 6: You know, it was a portybound dog, and I took

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Speaker 6: it and really thought that.

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Speaker 2: I was doing a good deed.

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Speaker 1: As Meredith started walking home, the dog started jolting spasms

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Speaker 1: of gratitude. Perhaps she got the dog home safely, made

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Speaker 1: a post and waited. Finally the owner showed up.

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Speaker 6: And I was expecting to be met with like, oh,

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Speaker 6: I'm so happy that you got my dog.

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Speaker 2: I've been worried sick about it.

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Speaker 6: Well, it turns out that I had taken a dog

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Speaker 6: from a home that had an invisible fence.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's why it was jolting.

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Speaker 6: Yes, it was jolting. Yes, And instead it was cause

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Speaker 6: you took my dog from our yard and you shocked

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Speaker 6: it and thinks.

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Speaker 1: Is this why you had to move?

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Speaker 2: It's probably a consideration.

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Speaker 1: As for the drugging, However, Meredith doesn't think it was

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Speaker 1: all her fault.

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Speaker 2: This could happen to any of us.

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Speaker 6: I even googled, like looking for validation of like, oh,

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Speaker 6: this happens all the time, right.

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Speaker 1: Sadly, Meredith didn't find the validation. She was looking for.

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Speaker 2: A lot more stories about dogs.

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Speaker 6: But you know what, I think this has probably happened

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Speaker 6: to a lot more people. But there's maybe they're harboring

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Speaker 6: some sense of shame about it.

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Speaker 1: You're just not talking about it.

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Speaker 2: If it happened to you, you are not alone.

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Speaker 6: If it could happen to you, beware, Okay, maybe assess

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Speaker 6: the color of the gummies.

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Speaker 1: Maybe assessorry to interrupt, but who do you think you're

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Speaker 1: talking to right now?

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Speaker 7: Parents like me that wouldn't think their kid would have

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Speaker 7: gummy candy in their room.

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Speaker 1: The thing about people like Meredith, people who can laugh

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Speaker 1: at themselves, is that it can be hard to know

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Speaker 1: when they need to be taken seriously. Beredith can joke

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Speaker 1: about the gummies, but it doesn't mean it wasn't scary

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Speaker 1: at the time, or that she doesn't want some acknowledgment

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Speaker 1: from Aiden.

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Speaker 2: I keep waiting for this moment.

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Speaker 6: When he comes through the door, he says, Mom, I've

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Speaker 6: been reflecting a lot, and I thought about that time

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Speaker 6: when this happened, and I just want to say I

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Speaker 6: get it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry because he never apologized.

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Speaker 2: He's never apologized.

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Speaker 6: Ironically, of my three kids, he is probably the most

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Speaker 6: sensitive in terms of care and concern, so it was

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Speaker 6: somewhat surprising to me that he could dismiss that experience

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Speaker 6: so flippantly.

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Speaker 1: Meredith has tried to draw the apology out, bringing it

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Speaker 1: up once or twice a year. She tells herself it's

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Speaker 1: an important teachable moment. She tells herself that Aidan's refusal

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Speaker 1: to apologize reflects poorly on her parenting, so she keeps nujinghim,

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Speaker 1: most recently in a canoe.

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Speaker 2: Just the two of us.

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Speaker 6: There was no escaping, and I went so far as negotiation, okay.

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Speaker 2: I started at fifty to.

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Speaker 1: Fifty, meaning percent of blame, fifty percent on her, fifty

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Speaker 1: percent on Aiden. Aiden is an econ and computer science major,

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Speaker 1: and Meredith was trying to speak his language.

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Speaker 6: I went down to eighty twenty okay, twenty percent on him,

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Speaker 6: twenty percent on him.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't accept that, would not accept that.

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Speaker 6: At this point, I was like, well, now what do

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Speaker 6: I have to lose? I went all the way down

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Speaker 6: to ninety nine to one. I'm looking for a shrapnel

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Speaker 6: okay of accountability, but.

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Speaker 1: She had hasn't even gotten that. For three years, Meredith

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Speaker 1: and Aiden have been at a stalemate in terms of

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Speaker 1: who should be held accountable. It keeps popping up and

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Speaker 1: nothing gets settled. Meredith has tried recruiting friends to adjudicate,

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Speaker 1: but Aiden has always questioned their impartiality.

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Speaker 6: So I thought a real, independent, objective third party might

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Speaker 6: be the ticket to finding our path here, someone that

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Speaker 6: could see both sides and talk empathetically with my son

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Speaker 6: about accountability.

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Speaker 2: Do you think it's something you could be able to,

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Speaker 2: like broke her.

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Speaker 1: While we're all familiar with the idea of a claim adjuster,

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Speaker 1: what Meredith needs is a blame adjuster, someone who can

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Speaker 1: adjust some blame onto her son and make him apologize.

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Speaker 1: I accept the job, beg forgiveness once more for my baldness,

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Speaker 1: and myself to leave when you want to take it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Meredith's phone rings. Hey, Hey, on the phone is Meredith's

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Speaker 1: eldest daughter, Quinn.

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Speaker 2: I'm here with Jonathan.

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Speaker 5: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 1: The Quinn was out of town during the weed dosing catastrophe.

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Speaker 1: She remembers it. Well, oh, right, as long as we

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Speaker 1: have her on the line, I asked Quinn if there's

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Speaker 1: anything more I should know about. Quinn pauses, then asks

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Speaker 1: her mother a question, was this before or after your

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Speaker 1: airplane incident?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 2: My god, Quinn, the airplane incident?

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Speaker 1: What's the airplane incident? Enter Exhibit B the airplane incident.

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Speaker 8: I'd need to have my side of the story on

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Speaker 8: this because there's some definite biases from my mom.

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Speaker 1: This is Meredith's son Aiden, and when I phone him

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Speaker 1: up at college, he tells me that the gummy incident

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Speaker 1: is only one of two accidental druggings in this family.

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Speaker 8: My mom was on a business trip out to the

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Speaker 8: UK and Scotland, and then as a birthday present I

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Speaker 8: had just gotten to go with.

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Speaker 1: Three months after the weed gummies, Aidan went on a

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Speaker 1: trip with his mom. They were in the Amsterdam airport

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Speaker 1: about to board the nine hour flight back home to Minneapolis.

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Speaker 8: I knew she had like some sort of like sleeping

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Speaker 8: aid and I was like, oh, maybe I could like

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Speaker 8: have some for the flight.

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Speaker 1: Aiden's about twice Meredith size, so when he asked, she

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Speaker 1: figured it couldn't hurt to give him half of what

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Speaker 1: she normally took.

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Speaker 8: And then I just remember like being in the Amsterdam

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Speaker 8: airport and I was like, man, I feel really gross right,

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Speaker 8: and like I felt like pretty nauseous.

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Speaker 1: When boarding started, Aiden was having a hard time standing straight.

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Speaker 8: Like right as I hand them my passport and ticket,

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Speaker 8: I just completely pass out.

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Speaker 6: He's behind me, and then I hear a crash as

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Speaker 6: Aiden has collapsed into the stanchion.

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Speaker 8: Basically what I remember was kind of just like half consciousness.

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Speaker 8: She had just like kind of grabbed me by the

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Speaker 8: shoulders and she was like, we need to get it together.

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Speaker 1: You need to get on this flight.

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Speaker 2: He look at me.

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Speaker 6: They're like, there's no way you are going on displight

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Speaker 6: and you need to go to medical emergency or whatever.

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Speaker 8: And I remember they like ran tests and like kind

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Speaker 8: of contact, like poison control.

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Speaker 1: Just like Meredith. Aiden was fine eventually, but also like Meredith,

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Speaker 1: Aiden was disappointed by his mom's reaction. Does she accept

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Speaker 1: blame for the incident? Has she ever apologized to you

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Speaker 1: for that?

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 8: I don't want to fly out to say no, but

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Speaker 8: I'm like leaning more likely.

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Speaker 1: Not, Aiden says. When he first collapsed, Meredith was mostly

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Speaker 1: focused on getting him onto the plane, even if it

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Speaker 1: meant dragging his still limp body down the jetway weekend

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Speaker 1: at Bernie's style, I would.

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Speaker 8: Have expected that the priority is that I'm okay, not like, oh,

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Speaker 8: but we need to get on the plane right.

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Speaker 1: Meredith wanted to keep things on track, which not so

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Speaker 1: different from Aiden, who hurried off to pf chains. And

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Speaker 1: to top it all off, when they eventually were rebooked

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Speaker 1: on a new flight, Meredith's ticket got upgraded. And guess

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Speaker 1: who didn't offer that upgraded ticket to a certain somebody?

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Speaker 8: I remember asking her Oh, did you ever consider, like

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Speaker 8: maybe if I got the seed for that.

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Speaker 1: Point, that you had been the one who was drugged.

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Speaker 8: So yeah, And then she said I was supposed to

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Speaker 8: be home ten hours ago, which, like that behavior in

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Speaker 8: that scenario was uncharacteristic.

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Speaker 1: They're very good pals, this is Meredith's daughter again, Quinn.

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Speaker 6: But I think they have a harder time like being.

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Speaker 2: Soft around each other.

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Speaker 6: When they get in disagreements, both of them just like

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Speaker 6: hoard it up really quick.

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Speaker 1: Quinn says. Aiden and Meredith are both similar in their stubbornness,

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Speaker 1: to which regarding the gummy incident, Aiden holds a hard line.

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Speaker 1: He says Meredith is wrong about basic facts, like, for

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Speaker 1: one thing, the drugs weren't out in the open, but

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Speaker 1: rather stashed in an old iPhone box on a shelf.

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Speaker 1: Andy says he would never have left the house while

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Speaker 1: Meredith was still panicking on the floor. It was only

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Speaker 1: once she was panicking safely in bed that he went

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Speaker 1: off to his job, of which.

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Speaker 8: I never worked at Pfchain's.

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Speaker 1: Aiden briefly worked at a Panda Express, but that was

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Speaker 1: months earlier. The job he was rushing off to was

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Speaker 1: his caddying job at a golf course. My son had

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Speaker 1: to head off to go serve Chinese food. Does that

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Speaker 1: sound like more egregious than so my son had to

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Speaker 1: leave to hit the golf course.

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Speaker 8: I mean both of those. When you say it like that,

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Speaker 8: that just sounds like self.

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Speaker 1: When I first got into this, I was certain that

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Speaker 1: Aiden and Aiden alone was to blame. But now that

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Speaker 1: I've spoken with Aidan, I'm not so sure. I'm still

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Speaker 1: willing to adjudicate, but I'm starting to feel a bit

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Speaker 1: out of my depth, which drugging was worse. I don't

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Speaker 1: know much about drugs. I couldn't tell you the difference

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Speaker 1: between happy dust and happy powder. Lucky for me, though,

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Speaker 1: I know a medical expert. After the break, a very

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Speaker 1: special guest, A very special doctor guest.

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Speaker 9: It's Jackie.

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Speaker 1: Hello Jackie. No, this isn't a glitch in your podcast

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00:22:13,330 --> 00:22:17,249
Speaker 1: app The episode is not starting over. But this is

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Speaker 1: indeed my friend doctor Jackie Cohen. Doctor Jackie Cohen is

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Speaker 1: a doctor, and I'm phoning her today in her expert capacity.

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Speaker 1: I start with the airplane incident. So what do you think?

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Speaker 8: Like?

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: Is that a reasonable like? Would you do that? Would

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Speaker 1: you share my pills with my son.

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Speaker 3: Of course not of course not listen. I okay, it's

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Speaker 3: not the worst, it's not the worst thing she ever did.

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Speaker 3: It's not the worst parenting moment. But it's certainly not

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Speaker 3: up there. And the reason it's not up there is that,

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Speaker 3: I mean, the only red flag to me and this

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Speaker 3: is coming to you with her problems. So that's the

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Speaker 3: first problem.

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Speaker 1: That's that's your big that's the biggest lit miss for you.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So basically, yeah, you didn't. I mean, by your logic,

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Speaker 1: you think that every single person who has come to

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Speaker 1: me in all these years is not well by virtue

401
00:23:08,290 --> 00:23:10,050
Speaker 1: of the fact that they have to me for help.

402
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Speaker 1: Look at our dear friend Mary Club. Mary Cloude came

403
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Speaker 1: to me for help.

404
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Speaker 4: She did, she did.

405
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Speaker 1: There's an episode. Did I not help her to get

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Speaker 1: her real estate license? Did I not?

407
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Speaker 3: Okay?

408
00:23:22,929 --> 00:23:24,330
Speaker 2: Yes, and it was a good story.

409
00:23:24,490 --> 00:23:25,650
Speaker 3: Okay, fine, you're right.

410
00:23:25,770 --> 00:23:26,730
Speaker 10: You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: Although Jackie concedes the point that not everyone who comes

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Speaker 1: to me for help is certifiably deranged, she does think

413
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Speaker 1: Meredith is certifiably undeserving of an apology. From Jackie's perspective,

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Speaker 1: it's aiden who deserves one.

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Speaker 3: I'm totally with a son on this one. I think

416
00:23:44,929 --> 00:23:47,450
Speaker 3: his response is is so appropriate, like, you know what

417
00:23:47,649 --> 00:23:49,609
Speaker 3: it was on her to be elect fishing around his

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Speaker 3: room and consuming candies.

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Speaker 1: The when I tell Jackie about the seed, upgrade him right, No,

420
00:23:56,490 --> 00:24:00,969
Speaker 1: she didn't. She took it herself. She does seem to

421
00:24:01,129 --> 00:24:06,170
Speaker 1: enjoy Meredith's hutzba. He ain't.

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Speaker 3: The myth she could do is let him sleep it

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Speaker 3: off comfortably.

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00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:11,209
Speaker 1: Right, that's what the kid felt.

425
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm fowly with kids. Kit's great, by the way,

426
00:24:14,409 --> 00:24:15,290
Speaker 3: it is on the ball.

427
00:24:20,689 --> 00:24:22,729
Speaker 4: Hey, how are you? I'm good.

428
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Speaker 1: As with any medical question, I need a second opinion.

429
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Speaker 1: So after my call with Jackie, I consult with a

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Speaker 1: second drug expert. Not a doctor per se, but a

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Speaker 1: doctor of the streets. Are you in your underwear?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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00:24:37,649 --> 00:24:45,490
Speaker 1: Sorry, This is my friend Steve marsh. If his voice

434
00:24:45,530 --> 00:24:48,609
Speaker 1: sounds familiar, it's because he was the subject of another

435
00:24:48,689 --> 00:24:53,970
Speaker 1: episode of this podcast and is thus by Jackie's estimation unwell.

436
00:24:54,889 --> 00:24:59,209
Speaker 1: Steve has done ayahuasca in peru Iboga in Gabone and

437
00:24:59,330 --> 00:25:03,929
Speaker 1: participated in the unofficial Champions League of Ecstasy at Bergheim

438
00:25:04,090 --> 00:25:07,369
Speaker 1: in Berlin. Even though I pretty much don't know what

439
00:25:07,449 --> 00:25:10,369
Speaker 1: any of these words mean. I do know that Steve

440
00:25:10,409 --> 00:25:13,129
Speaker 1: has been breaking on through to the other side since

441
00:25:13,169 --> 00:25:16,129
Speaker 1: his teens and hiding weed from his mother since he

442
00:25:16,209 --> 00:25:19,130
Speaker 1: was in diapers. So I tell him the gummy story

443
00:25:19,449 --> 00:25:20,609
Speaker 1: and ask for his take.

444
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Speaker 4: I don't think he's really understanding what his mom went through.

445
00:25:24,409 --> 00:25:28,330
Speaker 4: Maybe like I've done the heroic dose of almost any

446
00:25:28,369 --> 00:25:32,810
Speaker 4: drug you can name, and yeah, that's a serious dosage.

447
00:25:32,689 --> 00:25:36,449
Speaker 1: So serious. Steve says, the twenty five milligram gummies aren't

448
00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:39,770
Speaker 1: even legal in the state of Minnesota. Steve himself has

449
00:25:39,810 --> 00:25:42,769
Speaker 1: never taken one hundred milligrams of vetibles at one time,

450
00:25:43,290 --> 00:25:46,530
Speaker 1: but he's sympathetic to Meredith's plight because of the time

451
00:25:46,609 --> 00:25:50,729
Speaker 1: he quote dabbed weed, which he explains is inhaling a

452
00:25:50,770 --> 00:25:52,930
Speaker 1: super high concentrate of THC.

453
00:25:53,530 --> 00:25:55,250
Speaker 4: I had to sit on the side of a hill

454
00:25:55,290 --> 00:25:58,290
Speaker 4: and like, you know, our friend Marisa, Yeah, Marisa had

455
00:25:58,290 --> 00:26:00,729
Speaker 4: to come out back and like gently rub my back

456
00:26:00,970 --> 00:26:03,090
Speaker 4: if I was like having a panic attack, which I

457
00:26:03,609 --> 00:26:06,490
Speaker 4: pretty much was, you know, So I like, I've been

458
00:26:06,530 --> 00:26:09,209
Speaker 4: there before, Meredith. I get it, you know, like it

459
00:26:09,290 --> 00:26:13,490
Speaker 4: is helpless and catatonic and scary.

460
00:26:14,409 --> 00:26:18,209
Speaker 1: For Steve, it's pretty cut and dry Unlike Jackie, he

461
00:26:18,290 --> 00:26:22,090
Speaker 1: believes it's Aidan who owes Meredith an apology. But to

462
00:26:22,129 --> 00:26:24,529
Speaker 1: make sure he has all the information, I tell him

463
00:26:24,530 --> 00:26:26,369
Speaker 1: the plane story too.

464
00:26:26,649 --> 00:26:29,290
Speaker 4: I would argue that's nearly irrelevant.

465
00:26:29,490 --> 00:26:32,049
Speaker 1: You know, on top of it, one of the tickets

466
00:26:32,090 --> 00:26:36,129
Speaker 1: gets bumped up to first class, and she takes.

467
00:26:35,889 --> 00:26:38,449
Speaker 4: It as is her maternal right. I have to say,

468
00:26:38,929 --> 00:26:43,050
Speaker 4: I just think that your mom ate your drugs, man, Like,

469
00:26:43,129 --> 00:26:46,249
Speaker 4: why can't you get your head around that you have

470
00:26:46,290 --> 00:26:48,050
Speaker 4: to be responsible for your shit? Man?

471
00:26:52,970 --> 00:26:58,090
Speaker 1: After weighing Jackie's expert testimony and Steve's sort of expert testimony,

472
00:26:58,449 --> 00:27:01,929
Speaker 1: I can only come to one conclusion, King Solomon, like,

473
00:27:01,970 --> 00:27:06,249
Speaker 1: and it's tit for tatnus, Meredith and Aiden need to

474
00:27:06,290 --> 00:27:11,609
Speaker 1: apologize to one another. And because two apologies require two

475
00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:15,929
Speaker 1: apology shamans, do you want to go there with me, sir?

476
00:27:18,169 --> 00:27:21,290
Speaker 1: After the break? Apologies all around?

477
00:27:21,689 --> 00:27:23,250
Speaker 4: Yeah? I want to know where this kid is getting

478
00:27:23,250 --> 00:27:53,090
Speaker 4: this high powered We've got me as too, Emily.

479
00:27:53,090 --> 00:27:55,290
Speaker 1: I said, there's a really good restaurant here here called

480
00:27:55,330 --> 00:28:00,249
Speaker 1: Broyer's or something voters. Aiden is home from college for

481
00:28:00,290 --> 00:28:03,969
Speaker 1: the week, and so on a warm afternoon, Steve and

482
00:28:04,010 --> 00:28:08,850
Speaker 1: I in our capacity as independent objective. Third and fourth

483
00:28:09,209 --> 00:28:11,609
Speaker 1: parties make our way to Meredith's.

484
00:28:12,129 --> 00:28:15,850
Speaker 4: It's like, right, here is this the house?

485
00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:19,690
Speaker 1: Yeah, that looks like it. The plan is to get in,

486
00:28:20,010 --> 00:28:22,769
Speaker 1: get some apologies, and get out in time for an

487
00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:35,570
Speaker 1: early lunch at Breyer's or Brothers or whatever it's called. Hi,

488
00:28:36,490 --> 00:28:37,729
Speaker 1: how are you thank you?

489
00:28:39,650 --> 00:28:39,810
Speaker 3: Right?

490
00:28:39,930 --> 00:28:43,450
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been briefed. I've been briefed.

491
00:28:43,530 --> 00:28:47,489
Speaker 1: Okay, Meredith welcomes us in. Aiden is seated on the

492
00:28:47,490 --> 00:28:50,650
Speaker 1: far end of the living room couch. Meredith sits down

493
00:28:50,690 --> 00:28:54,209
Speaker 1: beside him. Steve and I begin by trying to secure

494
00:28:54,209 --> 00:28:56,530
Speaker 1: an apology from Aidan about the gummies.

495
00:28:57,010 --> 00:28:58,969
Speaker 8: It's not like I started on on a silver platter.

496
00:28:59,250 --> 00:29:02,330
Speaker 4: Yeah, but hiding them sufficiently means your mom didn't overdose

497
00:29:02,370 --> 00:29:02,810
Speaker 4: on weed.

498
00:29:02,930 --> 00:29:05,969
Speaker 1: The thing is, I think I did have them, But unsurprisingly,

499
00:29:06,330 --> 00:29:07,330
Speaker 1: Aidan is defensive.

500
00:29:07,930 --> 00:29:10,170
Speaker 8: I just think there's so many signs that like would

501
00:29:10,209 --> 00:29:12,489
Speaker 8: have just should be red flat.

502
00:29:12,570 --> 00:29:15,290
Speaker 4: But even if she missed them, all, you're still responsible

503
00:29:15,290 --> 00:29:18,090
Speaker 4: for the drugs. And if you can just admit that,

504
00:29:18,450 --> 00:29:20,370
Speaker 4: then you can do drugs for the rest of your life.

505
00:29:25,810 --> 00:29:28,690
Speaker 4: What were I evenm just saying like I'm sorry?

506
00:29:30,490 --> 00:29:33,009
Speaker 8: At that point, I don't know, I don't, I think you, but.

507
00:29:33,010 --> 00:29:34,050
Speaker 2: I think you're probably worried.

508
00:29:34,050 --> 00:29:34,650
Speaker 1: Are you worried?

509
00:29:35,970 --> 00:29:36,370
Speaker 11: Yeah?

510
00:29:36,490 --> 00:29:37,770
Speaker 8: I think that just kind of ties back to the

511
00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:40,330
Speaker 8: whole thing. Like how much of the blame is that.

512
00:29:40,650 --> 00:29:42,290
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, I get I think we're caught

513
00:29:42,370 --> 00:29:46,090
Speaker 1: up in like pie charts and ratios. I mean, I

514
00:29:46,130 --> 00:29:48,810
Speaker 1: feel like it's just you know, my mother got hurt

515
00:29:49,090 --> 00:29:51,170
Speaker 1: because of something that I was a part of.

516
00:29:52,570 --> 00:29:52,610
Speaker 9: You.

517
00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:53,250
Speaker 1: That's it.

518
00:29:54,050 --> 00:29:55,690
Speaker 4: Do you feel like you were hurt? I don't, like.

519
00:29:55,930 --> 00:30:02,490
Speaker 6: I mean you saw me basically melt and freak out and.

520
00:30:02,410 --> 00:30:05,890
Speaker 1: Then you checked out, which is of course how Aiden

521
00:30:05,970 --> 00:30:08,969
Speaker 1: feels about how Meredith responded to him in the amster

522
00:30:09,170 --> 00:30:11,930
Speaker 1: Nam airport, a point he raises.

523
00:30:12,170 --> 00:30:14,290
Speaker 8: It wasn't like, oh my god, I know you're okay.

524
00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:15,810
Speaker 8: I just here, we need to get on the flight.

525
00:30:15,810 --> 00:30:17,370
Speaker 8: Your site.

526
00:30:17,050 --> 00:30:19,489
Speaker 6: I know, I know, I know, because I honestly I thought,

527
00:30:20,209 --> 00:30:21,250
Speaker 6: you know, I love you, but like.

528
00:30:21,250 --> 00:30:25,570
Speaker 2: Sometimes you like you're a little dramatic. You're a little dramatic.

529
00:30:26,050 --> 00:30:29,010
Speaker 6: Sometimes you're a little dramatic, And I thought, Okay, how

530
00:30:29,050 --> 00:30:29,690
Speaker 6: bad can it be?

531
00:30:32,010 --> 00:30:33,729
Speaker 4: Strings right, like, how bad can this be?

532
00:30:33,850 --> 00:30:34,090
Speaker 1: Mom?

533
00:30:34,610 --> 00:30:38,250
Speaker 4: Well, do you guys realize that there's some stuff that's

534
00:30:38,290 --> 00:30:39,930
Speaker 4: happening on both sides.

535
00:30:40,530 --> 00:30:43,850
Speaker 1: A lot of stuff on both sides. But just when

536
00:30:43,850 --> 00:30:47,130
Speaker 1: I'm starting to think there will be no sorries, Meredith

537
00:30:47,209 --> 00:30:48,690
Speaker 1: starts inching towards the light.

538
00:30:49,370 --> 00:30:52,769
Speaker 6: I just I just felt so bad. I think I

539
00:30:52,770 --> 00:30:56,690
Speaker 6: did feel like shame about it, and then making the

540
00:30:57,050 --> 00:31:01,490
Speaker 6: apology more grand would just be somewhat underscoring my shame

541
00:31:01,530 --> 00:31:02,010
Speaker 6: about it.

542
00:31:02,130 --> 00:31:04,050
Speaker 2: Sure, I just would like, just can we just move on?

543
00:31:04,650 --> 00:31:04,850
Speaker 5: You know?

544
00:31:09,530 --> 00:31:15,050
Speaker 6: But I think your point is I missed your suffering.

545
00:31:15,770 --> 00:31:16,330
Speaker 5: And.

546
00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:21,610
Speaker 6: I you know, I will apologize for not being there

547
00:31:21,610 --> 00:31:25,209
Speaker 6: in the right way at the time. I'm sorry, like

548
00:31:25,690 --> 00:31:27,570
Speaker 6: I should have had more empathy for you in that situation.

549
00:31:28,850 --> 00:31:32,210
Speaker 1: Aiden nods, but he still doesn't offer an apology back.

550
00:31:32,850 --> 00:31:35,049
Speaker 1: So Steve offers a helpful push.

551
00:31:35,570 --> 00:31:39,210
Speaker 4: So maybe what's going on here is just like you're

552
00:31:39,250 --> 00:31:41,650
Speaker 4: getting better at modeling apologies.

553
00:31:41,850 --> 00:31:42,370
Speaker 2: Uh huh.

554
00:31:42,450 --> 00:31:46,170
Speaker 4: And now Aiden will go back and think about what

555
00:31:46,250 --> 00:31:50,930
Speaker 4: a real remorseful apology sounds like. Maybe that's maybe the

556
00:31:50,930 --> 00:31:56,610
Speaker 4: first time he's heard like the gesture of apology could

557
00:31:56,650 --> 00:31:59,570
Speaker 4: be bigger. Yeah, maybe just like is under rehearsed in

558
00:31:59,610 --> 00:32:00,529
Speaker 4: the family. You know.

559
00:32:01,650 --> 00:32:04,090
Speaker 1: When I spoke with Quinn, she told me that It's true.

560
00:32:04,650 --> 00:32:07,410
Speaker 1: As kids, they didn't have many examples of what it

561
00:32:07,450 --> 00:32:10,490
Speaker 1: looks like to say sorry and mean it, which might

562
00:32:10,530 --> 00:32:11,850
Speaker 1: be why Aiden is struggling.

563
00:32:11,850 --> 00:32:15,450
Speaker 4: So right now, you could acknowledge Aiden that maybe you're

564
00:32:15,490 --> 00:32:17,010
Speaker 4: not good at that. Do you think you're good at

565
00:32:17,209 --> 00:32:18,450
Speaker 4: apologizing from the heart?

566
00:32:19,450 --> 00:32:19,930
Speaker 8: Probably not?

567
00:32:20,450 --> 00:32:23,529
Speaker 4: Yeah, and maybe it doesn't have to happen today, But

568
00:32:23,690 --> 00:32:26,090
Speaker 4: like it's a good thing to acknowledge that, Hey, I'm

569
00:32:26,450 --> 00:32:30,170
Speaker 4: a kind person, I'm a good person, but I might

570
00:32:30,209 --> 00:32:33,170
Speaker 4: suck at apologizing. Yeah, that's fair.

571
00:32:33,650 --> 00:32:41,569
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, I mean, like because it's like I mean,

572
00:32:41,610 --> 00:32:46,330
Speaker 11: I could just like say it and then like again, Okay,

573
00:32:47,370 --> 00:32:51,930
Speaker 11: I'm sorry that my accents cause you harm and.

574
00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:53,130
Speaker 4: I might.

575
00:32:54,490 --> 00:32:59,370
Speaker 8: And that my irresponsibility was inflicted upon you.

576
00:33:02,050 --> 00:33:04,090
Speaker 2: Thank you.

577
00:33:04,090 --> 00:33:04,289
Speaker 4: You know.

578
00:33:04,450 --> 00:33:06,930
Speaker 6: Maybe originally my motive or my sort of questioning of

579
00:33:06,970 --> 00:33:10,450
Speaker 6: this was someday you're going to be in some kind

580
00:33:10,490 --> 00:33:14,170
Speaker 6: of a relationship right with some other person in which

581
00:33:14,209 --> 00:33:17,890
Speaker 6: you're going to have to see things from their perspective,

582
00:33:17,890 --> 00:33:19,810
Speaker 6: and you're going to have to back down a little bit,

583
00:33:20,490 --> 00:33:23,850
Speaker 6: no matter how convinced you are that you were in

584
00:33:23,930 --> 00:33:24,290
Speaker 6: the right.

585
00:33:25,770 --> 00:33:29,490
Speaker 1: It feels like Meredith is speaking from experience. I asked

586
00:33:29,530 --> 00:33:31,690
Speaker 1: her about it later on, and she tells me that

587
00:33:31,770 --> 00:33:35,410
Speaker 1: she was. She was thinking about her most recent relationship

588
00:33:35,890 --> 00:33:38,890
Speaker 1: it had just ended, and she says the situation could

589
00:33:38,890 --> 00:33:42,729
Speaker 1: have used an apology. She wants her son to learn

590
00:33:42,850 --> 00:33:46,930
Speaker 1: from her experience. That is, after all, what good parents

591
00:33:46,970 --> 00:33:48,690
Speaker 1: want most.

592
00:33:48,290 --> 00:33:51,930
Speaker 6: And so, you know, part of my yearning here was like,

593
00:33:52,330 --> 00:33:53,330
Speaker 6: how do I help.

594
00:33:53,130 --> 00:33:53,890
Speaker 2: You get there?

595
00:33:59,770 --> 00:34:02,450
Speaker 1: My hope going into this was that Aiden would accept

596
00:34:02,450 --> 00:34:05,009
Speaker 1: blame for the gummies and Meredith would own up for

597
00:34:05,050 --> 00:34:08,730
Speaker 1: what happened in Amsterdam. A little quit pro quo and

598
00:34:08,770 --> 00:34:12,450
Speaker 1: everyone goes home happy. And that did kind of happen,

599
00:34:13,290 --> 00:34:17,250
Speaker 1: sort of. In the weeks after the conversation, I find

600
00:34:17,250 --> 00:34:20,770
Speaker 1: myself thinking about this business of modeling behavior that Steve

601
00:34:20,810 --> 00:34:24,930
Speaker 1: had brought up. If Meredith hadn't modeled apologies for her kids,

602
00:34:25,410 --> 00:34:29,450
Speaker 1: it begs the question who had modeled not modeling apologies

603
00:34:29,530 --> 00:34:32,890
Speaker 1: for her? So I reached back out to Meredith to

604
00:34:32,970 --> 00:34:36,570
Speaker 1: ask whether her parents ever said sorry to her. I

605
00:34:36,610 --> 00:34:39,890
Speaker 1: don't think so, but at times it would have been nice,

606
00:34:40,090 --> 00:34:43,969
Speaker 1: she says. By way of explanation, Meredith tells me about

607
00:34:43,970 --> 00:34:47,210
Speaker 1: all the time she'd be left waiting after ballet class

608
00:34:47,330 --> 00:34:49,529
Speaker 1: or school for her mom to pick her up.

609
00:34:50,130 --> 00:34:53,770
Speaker 10: I just remember feeling like the last kid standing waiting

610
00:34:54,170 --> 00:34:58,130
Speaker 10: like an hour outside. Yeah, and I think she I

611
00:34:58,170 --> 00:35:00,530
Speaker 10: don't know what she was doing, but I kind of

612
00:35:01,010 --> 00:35:03,850
Speaker 10: the message was like, well I kind of see I'm

613
00:35:03,890 --> 00:35:07,290
Speaker 10: a lower priority. It's funny now I think about me

614
00:35:07,370 --> 00:35:09,969
Speaker 10: picking my kids the whoror that I would if I'm

615
00:35:10,050 --> 00:35:11,770
Speaker 10: late by like five minutes?

616
00:35:12,210 --> 00:35:12,370
Speaker 4: Is it?

617
00:35:12,370 --> 00:35:14,170
Speaker 1: Because like you remember that feeling of.

618
00:35:14,210 --> 00:35:19,009
Speaker 2: Just waiting and feeling like does anybody care?

619
00:35:20,090 --> 00:35:23,610
Speaker 1: And it wouldn't come with an apology. No.

620
00:35:24,210 --> 00:35:27,330
Speaker 12: I wasn't allowed to be angry about it, right, you know.

621
00:35:27,730 --> 00:35:31,170
Speaker 12: It was like, well that's the situation and you just gotta.

622
00:35:31,130 --> 00:35:32,090
Speaker 1: Like suck it up.

623
00:35:32,130 --> 00:35:32,690
Speaker 4: Suck it up.

624
00:35:33,610 --> 00:35:37,050
Speaker 1: Anything other than that would be dramatic, you know?

625
00:35:37,170 --> 00:35:40,770
Speaker 12: Did that somehow sort of translate down in the way

626
00:35:40,770 --> 00:35:44,450
Speaker 12: I raise my kids? I mean, Aiden's reaction to me

627
00:35:44,650 --> 00:35:48,730
Speaker 12: overdosing on his gummies was suck it up, right, which

628
00:35:48,770 --> 00:35:50,250
Speaker 12: is exactly what I did to him.

629
00:35:51,570 --> 00:35:55,090
Speaker 1: Like family heirlooms or the gene for color blindness, the

630
00:35:55,170 --> 00:35:58,650
Speaker 1: value of apologizing is handed down. But if you didn't

631
00:35:58,690 --> 00:36:01,130
Speaker 1: come from a family where there was space for all that,

632
00:36:01,650 --> 00:36:04,730
Speaker 1: it's hard to create that space when you become a parent. Yourself.

633
00:36:05,530 --> 00:36:09,210
Speaker 1: How can you give the thing you never received? I

634
00:36:09,250 --> 00:36:11,770
Speaker 1: don't know the solution to that, but I do know

635
00:36:11,850 --> 00:36:14,690
Speaker 1: that it can't hurt to keep trying. Do you think

636
00:36:14,690 --> 00:36:17,370
Speaker 1: it's still possible to change? Like you know where you

637
00:36:17,410 --> 00:36:20,529
Speaker 1: can have a relationship with the kids where you can

638
00:36:20,770 --> 00:36:24,170
Speaker 1: apologize to them in the moment and they hear that

639
00:36:24,410 --> 00:36:25,770
Speaker 1: feel it.

640
00:36:25,810 --> 00:36:28,210
Speaker 2: Can people change?

641
00:36:28,450 --> 00:36:37,170
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't change yesterday, and we can't know who

642
00:36:37,210 --> 00:36:41,290
Speaker 1: we will be tomorrow. No, Jesus, maybe the Dalai Lama

643
00:36:41,450 --> 00:36:46,010
Speaker 1: is right. Today is the right day to love, believe, do,

644
00:36:46,690 --> 00:36:50,410
Speaker 1: and mostly live. And hey, if you choose to smoke

645
00:36:50,450 --> 00:36:52,850
Speaker 1: a little of the good stuff along the way, just

646
00:36:52,890 --> 00:36:57,530
Speaker 1: be sure to consult your pulmonary cardiologist. First, Heavyweight takes

647
00:36:57,530 --> 00:37:01,530
Speaker 1: no responsibility for bad trips, only the good ones.

648
00:37:32,450 --> 00:37:38,210
Speaker 5: Now that the fern ures returning to its good will home,

649
00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:46,090
Speaker 5: now that the last month's rent is scheming with the

650
00:37:46,290 --> 00:37:53,530
Speaker 5: damage to possible, take this moment to dissolve if we message,

651
00:37:53,610 --> 00:38:01,690
Speaker 5: if we tried to felt around for far too from

652
00:38:01,770 --> 00:38:04,130
Speaker 5: things that accidentally talk.

653
00:38:08,530 --> 00:38:12,170
Speaker 1: This episode of Heavyweight was produced by supervising producer Stevie

654
00:38:12,210 --> 00:38:16,210
Speaker 1: Lane and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our

655
00:38:16,290 --> 00:38:20,130
Speaker 1: senior producer is Khalila Holt, editorial guidance from Emily Condon.

656
00:38:20,490 --> 00:38:25,050
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Ben Nattafaffrey, Daphne Chen, Alexandra Garaton, and

657
00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:28,450
Speaker 1: Sam Reisman. For more Steve Marsh, you can enjoy his

658
00:38:28,570 --> 00:38:32,370
Speaker 1: written work in Minneapolis Saint Paul Magazine. Emamonger mixed the

659
00:38:32,410 --> 00:38:35,770
Speaker 1: episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson,

660
00:38:35,850 --> 00:38:39,690
Speaker 1: Blue Dot Sessions, and Bobby Lord. Additional scoring by bobble

661
00:38:39,850 --> 00:38:43,930
Speaker 1: Michael Charles Smith, Chris Zabriski, and Virginia Violet and the Rays.

662
00:38:44,170 --> 00:38:46,370
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by The Weaker Bands, courtesy of

663
00:38:46,410 --> 00:38:50,490
Speaker 1: Epitaph Records. Follow us on Instagram at Heavyweight Podcast or

664
00:38:50,610 --> 00:38:54,330
Speaker 1: email us at Heavyweight at Pushkin dot Fm. We'll be

665
00:38:54,370 --> 00:38:57,890
Speaker 1: back next week with the final episode of the season.

666
00:38:58,410 --> 00:39:15,370
Speaker 5: Painted in an empty road sign in an empty rope.

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00:39:18,730 --> 00:39:19,130
Speaker 5: Mm hmm