1 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and 2 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Wednesday, November nineteenth, twenty 3 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Lyttleton. I am co 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: editor in chief of Riety alongside Remains Studa. I'm in 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: LA he's in New York, and Righty has reporters around 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. On today's episode, 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: in our cover story segment, we'll talk with Matt Donnelly 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: about his reporting that goes deep on the issues that 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: are vexing what has historically been one of Hollywood's most 10 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: misunderstood cohorts, producers. Matt spent months reporting on the work 11 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: of Producers United, the collective of seasoned producers who have 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: reached the mad as Hell moment and they're doing something 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: about it. Matt then speaks with producers Jonathan Wong and 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: Laura Lewis. Both of them are incredibly articulate about the 15 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: dilemmas and the disrespect that can tellempraiary producer's face. But 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: before we get to that, here are a few headlines 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: just in this morning that you need to know. We 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: liked it. Variety's Peter de Bruses gave a strong review 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: to Wicked for good. Universal Pictures des eying a massive 20 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: opening on Friday. It's tracking for an opening weekend of 21 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty to one hundred and eighty million. 22 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: Variety's Rebecca Rubin reports, Miss Rachel, June Squibb, Lisa Kudro, 23 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: David Swimmer. They've all nabbed nominations for the Children and 24 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: Family Emmy Awards. Those trophies will be handed out in 25 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: New York on March first and March second. Jason Reitman 26 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: is leading the charge to reopen the Village's Theater in Westwood. 27 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: He's one of more than two dozen directors who rallied 28 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 1: to save the iconic theater last year. Now that group 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: has set a deal with the American Cinema Tech to 30 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: program the venue starting in twenty twenty seven. All of 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: these stories and so much more can be found on 32 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: Variety dot com. 33 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: Right now. 34 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: Now it's time for conversations with industry leads, readers, and 35 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: Variety journalists about news and trends in show business. Today's 36 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: episode is devoted to the cover story that is published 37 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: today and on Variety dot com. Matt Donnelly, Variety's senior 38 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: entertainment writer, discusses the issues and his reporting on the 39 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: conundrum around career producers. That's the term that Producers United 40 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: uses to identify producers with fiduciary responsibilities to their projects, 41 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: separating them from financiers and talent managers and the rest. 42 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: Jonathan Wong and Laura Lewis are industry veterans, and their 43 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: discussion with Matt really puts the issues in human terms. 44 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: Matt Donnelly, thanks for joining me. 45 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. 46 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: You have pulled off a very hard story, which is 47 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 1: a big trend story about producers. You've done a great 48 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: job in your terrific cover story published today in our 49 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 1: precious print edition and also on Variety dot com. It's 50 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: like Domino's. One issue leads to the other, and the 51 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: impact over about twelve years of massive change in this 52 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: business has been significant for producers. 53 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 3: And thank you for being the editor on this piece. 54 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: I used the sum total of a lot of knowledge 55 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: to help guide, but you did the heavy lifting and 56 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: talking to everybody. I was going to ask you some 57 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 1: questions about your cover story, but we got two representative 58 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: voices from an organization called Producers United, and your interview 59 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: with them was so good that I want to devote 60 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: most of the time to that. 61 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 3: The devotion from this group of all ranges of experiences 62 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:28,679 Speaker 3: is pretty inspiring. 63 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: I'm sure you have made a lot of type A 64 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: new friends. Well, Matt again, thanks for the labor. And 65 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: with that we're going to turn it over to your 66 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: interview with Jonathan Wong and Laura Lewis. 67 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 3: Jonathan, Laura, if you could define for everyone what in 68 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 3: your terms as a career producer. 69 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I'll jump in here first and say 70 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: career producers are pretty easy to spot there. They're the 71 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 2: producer who's paid just to produce. They are not the 72 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: hyphenit producer. It's sometimes jokingly called the producer producer because 73 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: there's so many producers on movies and TV shows sometimes, 74 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 2: but broadly speaking, it is the fiduciary. It is the 75 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: creative partner. It is the person who is the right 76 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: hand to the director, who's overseeing every part of production, 77 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: pre production, post production, and distribution. 78 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 4: Our only job on a project is the film and 79 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 4: looking out for the film and being the I like 80 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 4: to also say the ring leader of the circus we 81 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 4: oversee every single creative element in terms of pulling it together, 82 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 4: but we don't have any other obligation, whether it's to 83 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 4: an actor we partnered with or a writer we've partnered with, 84 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 4: our finance. Here we have a fiduciary responsity to our 85 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 4: responsibilities to the film and two questions. That's another way 86 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 4: we define career preacing. 87 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: For sure, And in addition to obviously being responsible for 88 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 3: the budget and delivering a film or TV show on time, 89 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: if you could just give me a little a varying 90 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 3: idea of all the things that that you are solely 91 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 3: responsible for. 92 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 4: We're the ones responsible for leasing with the department heads, 93 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 4: whether that's makeup cost to hair edit, but also we 94 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 4: have to look out for the on the flip side, 95 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 4: the director and the writer and their vision two and 96 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 4: going back to the studio and the financier. So we're 97 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 4: literally the middleman between all of those departments. I was 98 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 4: sort of like an hourglass, you know, the where's lynch 99 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 4: pin between all of the people on one side and 100 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 4: all the people on the other side. 101 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: In like a health analogy, I think a lot of 102 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: times people will view each individual department as addressing symptoms. 103 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: So if a problem's coming up with an electrical issue, 104 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 2: or there's a wardrobe issue, and then there's specialists who 105 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 2: address these little issues that arise on set, and the 106 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 2: career producer's job is to look at the holistic health 107 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 2: of a set and its production as a business, as 108 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 2: an entity. So that is translating creative vision not only 109 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: from a budgetary standpoint, into a real, instantiated into the 110 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: world kind of standpoint. 111 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 3: One of the things that this story discusses so centrally 112 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 3: that is incredibly representative of all your struggles is in 113 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 3: the concept of credit proliferation. So I'm hoping you guys 114 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 3: can help me explain credit proliferation in as simplest terms 115 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 3: as possible. 116 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 4: The simplest way to say it is, no one barters 117 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 4: a writer or director or actor credit. 118 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: You can't barter it. 119 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 4: And we have a job, as we've just been discussing, 120 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 4: and yet our credit is given away like it's not 121 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 4: a job, and that leads to a whittling down of 122 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 4: what the job means, and it also leads to a 123 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 4: whittling down of livelihoods, and it also leads to whittling 124 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 4: down of who's responsible, which ultimately affects the film, and 125 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 4: no other line item in a film does that happen. 126 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 4: It's truly only the producer line where it's just can 127 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 4: be given away like it's a piece candy. 128 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: What we've been saying is some producing is not producing. 129 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: So a lot of people will have read a script 130 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 2: and thought it was good and connect to some dots 131 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 2: and they go, well, that's the totality of producing. Well, 132 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 2: that's one part of producing. It would be the same 133 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 2: as me writing one take on a sen for a 134 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 2: writer and then saying I deserve the writing credit. And luckily, 135 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 2: the WGA protects against those things, and the DGA protects 136 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: against people stepping on the director credit. But there is 137 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: no entity currently that protects the producer credit and that 138 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: is why Producers United was formed. 139 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 3: And could you explain why the producer credit is vulnerable 140 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 3: to such proliferation. 141 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: Well, if you think about how deals are made, there's 142 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: always money, and there's a cap on money, and there's 143 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: no cap on producing credits. Because there's no legislative body 144 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: currently or union that can say who deserves a producer 145 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: credit or who does not. Agents, managers whomever can negotiate 146 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: these things and ask for them. And because producers oftentimes 147 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: are going to do whatever it takes to make a 148 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: movie because we are in charge of the whole health 149 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: of the organism, which means getting it made in the 150 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: first place. Oftentimes we're backed into a corner where we 151 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 2: have to grant people producer credits. Other times some managers 152 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: are doing it because they have leverage over the situation 153 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: where client they'll say they won't be in this movie 154 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 2: unless I get a producer credit. Same thing happens with 155 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: indie films with financieries where they say, we will not 156 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: finance this movie unless we get a producer credit. So 157 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: it's a lot of leveraging, and because there's no regulatory body, 158 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: depending on the situation, a lot of people have to 159 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: cave or given. 160 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 4: Emphasis on the word leverage, I go back to what 161 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 4: I said it up front, like our responsibilities to the 162 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 4: film and our job is to get a film made, 163 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 4: and often we're putting these situations where we can't say 164 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 4: no to somebody. I mean, if I could share the 165 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 4: number of times that now when I submit a project 166 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 4: to an actor and the first question out of the 167 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 4: agent's mouth is, well, can they be a producer on it? 168 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: Like that's a full time job. That's not just something 169 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: to dangle. 170 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: Well. 171 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 3: I could speak it to how changes in TV series 172 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 3: seasons and episode counts have made it harder for non 173 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 3: writing producers to earn a living. 174 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 4: Well, the biggest problem with non writing producers earning is 175 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 4: a cap. 176 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: We're capped. 177 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 4: Like there's no other line item where there's a cap 178 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 4: on how much a producer can make. So when I 179 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 4: had a situation on TV show to be vulnerable here 180 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 4: where two actors were placed on me and then their 181 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 4: deal was done before mine, and then I was told, 182 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 4: oh wait, there's no money left in the producer's pot 183 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 4: for you, It's like, wait, what I started the process, 184 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 4: but no other line item has a cap, So where 185 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 4: did that come from? And why did that become the precedent? 186 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 4: So that's where our livelihood has been affected, where people 187 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 4: are clying into that pool of money. But yet we're 188 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 4: going to be the one that will be responsible for 189 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 4: being the career producer on the project. 190 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: Can I underline that just because I want to say 191 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: how crazy that is? So if a director, let's just 192 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: say a notable director wants to come onto a film, 193 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: there's no amount of money the studio will say no 194 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 2: to up to a limit, right, and that's up to 195 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 2: BA to negotiate that same thing with actors because they 196 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 2: provide a bunch of value, but the industry has devalued 197 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: producers such they go, oh, they're not worth more than this, 198 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 2: and we'll also barter that credit and then compensate those 199 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 2: people for that credit even though they aren't rendering those services. 200 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 2: So fill in the blank, famous actor, film the blank, 201 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: famous director. You're going to get a producer credit and 202 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 2: you're gonna get paid out of that producer's fee. And 203 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: then Las Laura just said, you're then left with the scraps, 204 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 2: even though you're the one who has to render the 205 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: services and actually make that movie. It's just insanity. 206 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 4: It doesn't seems every single television show announcement you never 207 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 4: see an actor not getting an EP credit now, like 208 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 4: it's just standard. And that's what's also hard is it's 209 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 4: all been normalized. 210 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 3: One of the most fascinating things I learned in the 211 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 3: process of reporting and writing this story is just how 212 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 3: much the legacy financial ecosystem of the business was upended 213 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 3: by streaming. So I'd love if you could unpack that 214 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 3: a little bit. 215 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 2: The promise of the technology did not encapsulate the peril 216 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: of the technology, and we thought it was going to 217 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: lead to more deals, more films being made, more TV 218 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: shows being made, more jobs to be had. But what 219 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 2: ended up happening was there was an overpayment on talent, 220 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 2: which then turned the whole productions upside down because or 221 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 2: whole above the line is now way too expensive to 222 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 2: justify shooting it here in the US. So then what 223 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 2: happened is all those jobs left to other countries and 224 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: suddenly we have empty back lots and empty movie theaters 225 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: because the streaming model had pushed all the production out 226 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 2: and then put everything onto these streaming platforms. Now, I'm 227 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 2: not a luddite to say, oh, that was all terrible, 228 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 2: but it is to say that there were externalities or 229 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: there were repercussions that weren't factored into the promises. And 230 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 2: it's the job of producers to be looking out for 231 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 2: the health of movies and for the health of the industry, 232 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 2: and we are seeing this degradation that's happening generationally because 233 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: we're seeing there's so much disruption happening to our industry 234 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: that there's no new fiduciaries coming up. The pipeline and 235 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 2: so it's not that producers are pulling the ladder up 236 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 2: behind us. It's that the industry currently is not set 237 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: up for the health of itself to think for the 238 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: long term, to say who are going to be the guides, 239 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: who are going to steward and usher in these next 240 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 2: generation of projects. It feels like it's a dying breed. 241 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 4: I want to like a clap to everything you say 242 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 4: said it's go well, listen, We're not the first to 243 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 4: live through a technology change and people changing the business 244 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 4: model without thinking about how it's going to affect their 245 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 4: first business model. And the fact that so many windows 246 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 4: were wiped out across both film and television way too fast, 247 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 4: and now we're trying to make up for the fact 248 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 4: that the business model wasn't figured out before we moved 249 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 4: into this streaming future where we, as Jonathan Aptley said, 250 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 4: like again, we are the ones looking out for our 251 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 4: job as the industry and the film so we're going 252 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 4: to be the stalwarts to push it forward. 253 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 3: Observably, there is a record low amount of overall deals 254 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 3: that producers now enjoy with any of the major studios 255 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 3: and streamers. There becomes a vacuum in mentorship so if 256 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 3: you could talk about how that will manifest younger and 257 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 3: more up and coming producers not just getting opportunity, but 258 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 3: not getting basic skill. 259 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 4: When I first started the industry shows two thousand and one, 260 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 4: everyone all the major producers had overhead deals. They all 261 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 4: had two senior execs, two junior execs, and multiple assistants. 262 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 4: That's at least four to six jobs of mentees getting 263 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 4: mentored by somebody that's all disappeared. It's like, how will 264 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 4: people want to enter our business if they can't have 265 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 4: an entry level. 266 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: Job and then grow from there. 267 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 4: And it is really important to the ecosystem of our 268 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 4: business that we bring those back because that's the only 269 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 4: way to keep the pipeline going of future projects. 270 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: I'm luckily the beneficiary of one of those deals, but 271 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: I can see that the reason why I'm part party 272 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 2: to this deal is because of Daniels, Right, They're the 273 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 2: ones who have this deal with Universal. I get to 274 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: be the executive of this company and then we get 275 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: the overhead to be able to do this pipeline of 276 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 2: the next generation. But the onus is on to me 277 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 2: to make sure that I am training our employees. So 278 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: every other Friday we do a career producer lunch where 279 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: they can ask any question. I show them old budgets, 280 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 2: I show them old deals, and I explain the process 281 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: to this next generation because it's so important that there 282 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: is a pipeline of people behind us. But I also 283 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: am wise enough to see that should I not be 284 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 2: in business with Daniels, I don't think I would have 285 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: a deal and I would be able to do those 286 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: things with our employees currently. 287 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 3: It's fascinating. 288 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 4: This is truly one of the biggest reasons Producers United exists. 289 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 4: We want to make sure that this is a profession 290 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 4: that subsists and continues, like we are worried about next generations. 291 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: The reason why we ended up having our deal universal 292 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 2: is that Donna Langley said, we believe our filmmakers are 293 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: our IP, that the Daniels were the IP, and to 294 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 2: feel that vote of confidence to say from the top 295 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: down of a studio that the creator and the vision 296 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 2: that they have that is the most beautiful leadership that 297 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: you could have in a studio. And I think that 298 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 2: we're seeing that, hopefully through the indie space and the 299 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: studio space, that this course correction say we need to 300 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: actually be pursuing these real voices and these real tours 301 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: and not just chasing. 302 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: Ip Jonathan and Laura. You know, I'm going to take 303 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 3: a shot in the dark and say, there wasn't a 304 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: producer booth at your high school career fair, So I 305 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 3: would love to know sort of what your entree was 306 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 3: into the business and when did you know that this 307 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 3: is what you really wanted to do. 308 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 4: No, there was no producer booths at my college. Like 309 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 4: so many other people, I know, I just loved stories 310 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 4: growing up. I absolutely loved them. My first job was 311 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 4: at twentieth Century Fox Television, actually back in the day, 312 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 4: working for Dana Walden Gary Numan when they were running 313 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 4: the studio, and. 314 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: It was like, I want to be on this side 315 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: that's making the things. 316 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 4: Like I finally got to see and know what people did, 317 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 4: and I just knew I wanted to be on the 318 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 4: side making the things. 319 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 2: I was a touring musician, and I've always laughed when 320 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: people are like, oh, you're a type A producer, and 321 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm very TYPEE. I'm actually more of a 322 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 2: creative person than I am a budget person. But I 323 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: got my start with American Zoetrop Michael Zaken was the 324 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: executive and Roman Coppola and Sofia Coppolo were kind of 325 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: taking the reins over from Francis. And I use that 326 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: to call all my old music contacts and say, hey, 327 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: I worked for the Coppolas even though I was an intern, 328 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: just like Hook Crook just figured out how to produce 329 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: music videos from an early age and just kind of 330 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 2: corner of the market on getting paid two hundred dollars 331 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: to make a music video. 332 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 4: It's been so wonderful about producers United coming together in 333 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 4: the last got three years. Is the community producers have 334 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 4: always sort of operated in a vacuum, like we're sort 335 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 4: of isolated. We don't have the VJ showrunner group chats 336 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 4: and of this until now, and now we have this 337 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 4: community of so many people that I think we're providing 338 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 4: the mentorship that we're no longer getting via the studios. 339 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 4: That's what we've created, is this community of mentorship and 340 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 4: advice and council and we're just all out there for 341 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 4: each other, which has been so absolutely wonderful. 342 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: I will say amen to that. So if you're a 343 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: young producer listening to this, come find us. Don't give up. 344 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 2: It's really hard. We need to unite in this moment 345 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: as we're facing all these different existential dreads and it 346 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: feels like it's exhausting. We're looking down like the degradation 347 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: of democracy, let alone the degradation of our credits and 348 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: who are That's why we need our story? 349 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 3: Well, there is probably no more of a perfect note 350 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 3: to go out on it, and we thank you both 351 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 3: so much for your time. 352 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: Seriously, as we close out today's episode, here's a few 353 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: things we're watching for. Michael B. Jordan will be faded 354 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: with the American Cinema Tech Award on Thursday in Beverly Hills. 355 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: Motion Picture Association Chairman Charles Rufkin will receive the Power 356 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: of Cinema Award. Variety is once again fanning out across continents. 357 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: This week. We are producing digital dailies out of the 358 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: Goa Festival in India, the Dohar Film Festival in Katar, 359 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: the Torino Film Festival in Italy, and out of the 360 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: Cairo Film Festival in Egypt. Next week we'll be at 361 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: the Film Festival in Marrakesh, and we'll be in Indonesia 362 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: at the Jogja Netpack Asia Film Festival before we go. 363 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: Congrats to George Cheeks, who will be honored tonight in 364 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: New York at the thirty fifth annual benefit for Riisenbach Philanthropies. 365 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: That's an organization that supports other organizations that look to 366 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: improve the quality of life for New Yorkers. Than wrong 367 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: with that. Thanks for listening. This episode was written and 368 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: edited by me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Matt Donnelly 369 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: Stick Snack's hick Picks. Please leave us a review at 370 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: the podcast platform of your choice, and please tune in 371 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: tomorrow for another episode of Daily Variety.