Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, May four. I'm Oscar Ramiras from the Daily
Speaker 1: Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.
Speaker 1: It was one of the main tools that helped us
Speaker 1: transition to a work from home model during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Zoom and other video conferencing apps. They helped us connect
Speaker 1: and collaborate when we could not do so in person.
Speaker 1: But a new study shows that compared to meeting in person,
Speaker 1: creativity did take a bit of a hit because we're
Speaker 1: so focused on the video screen during these meetings, we
Speaker 1: lose sight of our environments and moveless, both of which
Speaker 1: stimulate creativity. Erica Pandy, business reporter at Axios joined us
Speaker 1: for the toll that video conferencing took on workplace creativity.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Erica. Well, let's talk about Zoom
Speaker 1: and these other virtual meeting apps. You know, they were
Speaker 1: huge help throughout the pandemic. Obviously, everybody had to go
Speaker 1: work from home if they could, and businesses really had
Speaker 1: to adjust very quickly. So these apps and and these
Speaker 1: meeting platforms really helped out a lot. But you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people as the things started opening up,
Speaker 1: you know, the whole return to work discussion. A lot
Speaker 1: of people still wanted to work from home. A lot
Speaker 1: of business leaders wanted people to come back, you know,
Speaker 1: they a lot of them really felt there was it
Speaker 1: was more effective being in person, the old work culture.
Speaker 1: And now we have a little bit of data to
Speaker 1: that maybe back that up. There was some studies basically
Speaker 1: saying that, you know, workover Zoom may not be as
Speaker 1: creative as that in person stuff. So Erica, tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit more about it. Right, So the point
Speaker 1: you first made is so important to emphasize, right that
Speaker 1: these platforms like Zoom and other video conferencing platforms were
Speaker 1: so great because they let us all go home and
Speaker 1: we kind of went off without a hitch. So they
Speaker 1: were awesome for what they did. But now that we're
Speaker 1: settling into this, we're starting to realize that maybe this
Speaker 1: isn't the final solution. Maybe there's something else we can
Speaker 1: do to make hybrid work remote work better. And that's
Speaker 1: where this comes in. I mean a lot of us
Speaker 1: have kind of felt it and it totally okay. You know,
Speaker 1: you here when you gather with people. Now I had
Speaker 1: a day's worth of Zoom meetings or oh I had
Speaker 1: to be camera on in that Zoom I was so tired,
Speaker 1: and we finally have some data to back it up.
Speaker 1: There was this new research published out of Columbia Business
Speaker 1: School and Stanford Graduate School of Business in the journal
Speaker 1: Nature that put people in pairs either in person or
Speaker 1: on Zoom and had them come up with, you know,
Speaker 1: with ideas on how to use bubble wrap or frisbee creatively.
Speaker 1: So basically, just like, here's the task. The two of
Speaker 1: you are working together, what can you come up with?
Speaker 1: And they figured out they judge these ideas, and the
Speaker 1: people who are working together on zoom came up with
Speaker 1: fewer and less innovative ideas than those who are working
Speaker 1: together in person. And you and you look at you
Speaker 1: can look at the studies and see exactly how they
Speaker 1: judged it. But the takeaway for me was okay, so
Speaker 1: there is really a creativity innovation cost of working on Zoom.
Speaker 1: And you're right, you know, when you talk to people
Speaker 1: and totally a lot of them feel it. I myself,
Speaker 1: I work in radio, you know, I do the podcast
Speaker 1: as well, but I missed that interaction with my workers.
Speaker 1: And once we all started coming back, we were getting
Speaker 1: great funny ideas for shows and stuff and it just
Speaker 1: started happening naturally, So anecdotally I feel it too. I'm there.
Speaker 1: So what are researchers think is the issue? Then with
Speaker 1: a zoom, A lot of them say it literally is
Speaker 1: just staring at that computer screen. You're missing the environment
Speaker 1: around yourself. You're just focused on that screen and you
Speaker 1: don't get some of that other natural visual cues as
Speaker 1: other movements that you know that helped promote that imagination. Right,
Speaker 1: Like sociologists and and folks who study innovation and virtual
Speaker 1: interaction tell me that a lot of it is about movement,
Speaker 1: Like you're saying, when we're on zooms, we're staring into
Speaker 1: a screen. We are staying still, so we're not being
Speaker 1: too distracting or we're not you know, appearing distracted by
Speaker 1: looking here or there, and that lack of movement, that
Speaker 1: lack of visual stimulation can actually be stifling the creativity.
Speaker 1: So if you're in person, you can kind of take
Speaker 1: a second to look out the window, you can use
Speaker 1: your hands, you could even in a meeting, you know,
Speaker 1: get up, go over, fill your last with some water
Speaker 1: on the side. So all of those little things really
Speaker 1: quite literally get the ideas flowing. And when we're taking
Speaker 1: that away, it can be a big problem. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: you know, just think about visualize how these meetings happen. Right,
Speaker 1: You're sitting still looking at the other person. A lot
Speaker 1: of times, you're looking at yourself in the video and
Speaker 1: make sure you know you're not looking weird or anything
Speaker 1: like that. You're checking yourself out a lot. You know,
Speaker 1: that's what's happened when you're looking at a lot of
Speaker 1: these Zoom meetings. So you're not focused on that other stuff.
Speaker 1: And you know, to the point of what the study
Speaker 1: was looking at and the props that they were using,
Speaker 1: bubble wrapping frisbee, right, you know, if you're in person,
Speaker 1: you can motion throwing it, you can pop it. You know,
Speaker 1: whatever you're doing, you might not be doing it as
Speaker 1: much when you're focused on that other person on that
Speaker 1: video screen. Right. And and so then the question kind
Speaker 1: of came well, you know, it's it's a bummer that
Speaker 1: there's a creativity cost on Zoom, But we're not gonna
Speaker 1: suddenly say, okay, everybody has to go back to the office, right,
Speaker 1: because we've got all these incredible benefits of distributed work,
Speaker 1: of hybrid work that we want to keep going to
Speaker 1: the future. So I asked researchers, what are some solutions
Speaker 1: here where we can maybe inject from that creativity back in,
Speaker 1: And they said, you know what if we went camera off,
Speaker 1: what do we want to an old fashion phone call?
Speaker 1: Because I don't know about you, but I've had meetings
Speaker 1: where you know, everyone's on the zoom but their cameras
Speaker 1: are off. I'm maybe moving about. I'm pacing around my
Speaker 1: apartment as I'm taking the meeting, and I do feel
Speaker 1: more refreshed. Maybe the idea has come because you're adding
Speaker 1: in that movement element, that kind of active element back in,
Speaker 1: and then you know, if you want to get even
Speaker 1: more futuristic. People are saying the metaverse is going to
Speaker 1: be a big part of the future of work. That way,
Speaker 1: if you've got this headset on and you're you know,
Speaker 1: with your colleagues in uh, you know, like outside somewhere
Speaker 1: virtually or or you know, on a in a cool place,
Speaker 1: and you can kind of interact that way, move around
Speaker 1: in your own space, but be there with them. That
Speaker 1: could work to their said there's a course at Stanford
Speaker 1: that does this with students and finds that they're quite
Speaker 1: creative when they're in the metaverse. But you know, these
Speaker 1: headsets are still expensive, they're still pretty clunky. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I want to wear one all day, so that,
Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of exciting for what the future is.
Speaker 1: And you know, these video conferencing things are are such
Speaker 1: great tools. We have've proved that. But to your point, right,
Speaker 1: the study didn't look at some of these other benefits,
Speaker 1: the economic benefits of working from home, that cutting back
Speaker 1: on travel time, the better quality of life. It's just
Speaker 1: about how we use it to keep that creativity going.
Speaker 1: And you know you're right. Just doing audio only headphones
Speaker 1: in you know, you can create that movement again. So
Speaker 1: it is an interesting look. It's not like zoom and
Speaker 1: video conferencing has completely stifled creativity, but as we adjust,
Speaker 1: these are the things we got to look at. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Erica Pandy, business reporter at Axios, thank you very much
Speaker 1: for joining us. Thanks for having me. I'm oscar Mirrors
Speaker 1: and this has been reopening America. Don't forget that. For
Speaker 1: today's big news stories, you can check me out in
Speaker 1: the Daily Dive podcast every Monday through Friday. So follow
Speaker 1: us an I Heart radio or wherever you get your podcasts.