WEBVTT - Zoom and Other Video Conferencing Apps Took a Toll on Workplace Creativity 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.760 It's Wednesday, May four. I'm Oscar Ramiras from the Daily 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:06.840 Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:09.320 It was one of the main tools that helped us 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:11.720 transition to a work from home model during the pandemic. 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.400 Zoom and other video conferencing apps. They helped us connect 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:17.520 and collaborate when we could not do so in person. 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.200 But a new study shows that compared to meeting in person, 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.639 creativity did take a bit of a hit because we're 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.119 so focused on the video screen during these meetings, we 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:29.240 lose sight of our environments and moveless, both of which 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:34.800 stimulate creativity. Erica Pandy, business reporter at Axios joined us 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.000 for the toll that video conferencing took on workplace creativity. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:42.760 Thanks for joining us, Erica. Well, let's talk about Zoom 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.559 and these other virtual meeting apps. You know, they were 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.960 huge help throughout the pandemic. Obviously, everybody had to go 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.519 work from home if they could, and businesses really had 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.640 to adjust very quickly. So these apps and and these 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.240 meeting platforms really helped out a lot. But you know, 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.360 a lot of people as the things started opening up, 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:03.760 you know, the whole return to work discussion. A lot 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:05.640 of people still wanted to work from home. A lot 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.480 of business leaders wanted people to come back, you know, 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:10.959 they a lot of them really felt there was it 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.959 was more effective being in person, the old work culture. 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:15.480 And now we have a little bit of data to 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:18.720 that maybe back that up. There was some studies basically 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.120 saying that, you know, workover Zoom may not be as 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.080 creative as that in person stuff. So Erica, tell us 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.360 a little bit more about it. Right, So the point 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.000 you first made is so important to emphasize, right that 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.080 these platforms like Zoom and other video conferencing platforms were 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.720 so great because they let us all go home and 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.960 we kind of went off without a hitch. So they 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.360 were awesome for what they did. But now that we're 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.000 settling into this, we're starting to realize that maybe this 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.040 isn't the final solution. Maybe there's something else we can 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.560 do to make hybrid work remote work better. And that's 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:53.160 where this comes in. I mean a lot of us 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.360 have kind of felt it and it totally okay. You know, 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.080 you here when you gather with people. Now I had 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.600 a day's worth of Zoom meetings or oh I had 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.000 to be camera on in that Zoom I was so tired, 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.480 and we finally have some data to back it up. 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.560 There was this new research published out of Columbia Business 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.919 School and Stanford Graduate School of Business in the journal 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:15.200 Nature that put people in pairs either in person or 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.440 on Zoom and had them come up with, you know, 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:22.800 with ideas on how to use bubble wrap or frisbee creatively. 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.000 So basically, just like, here's the task. The two of 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:26.760 you are working together, what can you come up with? 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.320 And they figured out they judge these ideas, and the 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.000 people who are working together on zoom came up with 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:37.040 fewer and less innovative ideas than those who are working 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.840 together in person. And you and you look at you 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:41.520 can look at the studies and see exactly how they 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.320 judged it. But the takeaway for me was okay, so 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:49.160 there is really a creativity innovation cost of working on Zoom. 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:51.120 And you're right, you know, when you talk to people 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.280 and totally a lot of them feel it. I myself, 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.760 I work in radio, you know, I do the podcast 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.480 as well, but I missed that interaction with my workers. 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.480 And once we all started coming back, we were getting 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.320 great funny ideas for shows and stuff and it just 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:09.680 started happening naturally, So anecdotally I feel it too. I'm there. 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:13.680 So what are researchers think is the issue? Then with 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:15.840 a zoom, A lot of them say it literally is 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:20.000 just staring at that computer screen. You're missing the environment 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.360 around yourself. You're just focused on that screen and you 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.880 don't get some of that other natural visual cues as 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.079 other movements that you know that helped promote that imagination. Right, 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:34.760 Like sociologists and and folks who study innovation and virtual 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.200 interaction tell me that a lot of it is about movement, 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.600 Like you're saying, when we're on zooms, we're staring into 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:44.320 a screen. We are staying still, so we're not being 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:47.040 too distracting or we're not you know, appearing distracted by 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.480 looking here or there, and that lack of movement, that 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.200 lack of visual stimulation can actually be stifling the creativity. 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:56.840 So if you're in person, you can kind of take 0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:58.640 a second to look out the window, you can use 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.920 your hands, you could even in a meeting, you know, 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.040 get up, go over, fill your last with some water 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.040 on the side. So all of those little things really 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.480 quite literally get the ideas flowing. And when we're taking 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.040 that away, it can be a big problem. Yeah, And 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.800 you know, just think about visualize how these meetings happen. Right, 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.560 You're sitting still looking at the other person. A lot 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.440 of times, you're looking at yourself in the video and 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.640 make sure you know you're not looking weird or anything 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.440 like that. You're checking yourself out a lot. You know, 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:29.200 that's what's happened when you're looking at a lot of 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.400 these Zoom meetings. So you're not focused on that other stuff. 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.520 And you know, to the point of what the study 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.240 was looking at and the props that they were using, 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.000 bubble wrapping frisbee, right, you know, if you're in person, 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.839 you can motion throwing it, you can pop it. You know, 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:44.880 whatever you're doing, you might not be doing it as 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.240 much when you're focused on that other person on that 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.200 video screen. Right. And and so then the question kind 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.520 of came well, you know, it's it's a bummer that 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.200 there's a creativity cost on Zoom, But we're not gonna 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.960 suddenly say, okay, everybody has to go back to the office, right, 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.520 because we've got all these incredible benefits of distributed work, 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.520 of hybrid work that we want to keep going to 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:09.839 the future. So I asked researchers, what are some solutions 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.640 here where we can maybe inject from that creativity back in, 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.480 And they said, you know what if we went camera off, 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:18.279 what do we want to an old fashion phone call? 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.560 Because I don't know about you, but I've had meetings 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.880 where you know, everyone's on the zoom but their cameras 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.920 are off. I'm maybe moving about. I'm pacing around my 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.440 apartment as I'm taking the meeting, and I do feel 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.719 more refreshed. Maybe the idea has come because you're adding 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.440 in that movement element, that kind of active element back in, 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:36.480 and then you know, if you want to get even 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.400 more futuristic. People are saying the metaverse is going to 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.839 be a big part of the future of work. That way, 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.440 if you've got this headset on and you're you know, 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:49.360 with your colleagues in uh, you know, like outside somewhere 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.640 virtually or or you know, on a in a cool place, 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.640 and you can kind of interact that way, move around 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.640 in your own space, but be there with them. That 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:02.200 could work to their said there's a course at Stanford 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.080 that does this with students and finds that they're quite 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.520 creative when they're in the metaverse. But you know, these 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.159 headsets are still expensive, they're still pretty clunky. I don't 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.080 know if I want to wear one all day, so that, 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:13.680 you know, that's kind of exciting for what the future is. 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.520 And you know, these video conferencing things are are such 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.840 great tools. We have've proved that. But to your point, right, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:21.760 the study didn't look at some of these other benefits, 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.680 the economic benefits of working from home, that cutting back 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.440 on travel time, the better quality of life. It's just 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:31.200 about how we use it to keep that creativity going. 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.560 And you know you're right. Just doing audio only headphones 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.880 in you know, you can create that movement again. So 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.120 it is an interesting look. It's not like zoom and 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:45.080 video conferencing has completely stifled creativity, but as we adjust, 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.040 these are the things we got to look at. Absolutely. 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.000 Erica Pandy, business reporter at Axios, thank you very much 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:57.159 for joining us. Thanks for having me. I'm oscar Mirrors 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.200 and this has been reopening America. Don't forget that. For 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:01.920 today's big news stories, you can check me out in 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.080 the Daily Dive podcast every Monday through Friday. So follow 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.960 us an I Heart radio or wherever you get your podcasts.