1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: I'm what kind of stuff I never told you production 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: of Iheartradium, and today I wanted to bring back a 4 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 2: classic that kristphin Caroline did about women who make wine. 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: I was thinking about this because I told this story before. 6 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 2: But my mom always, for pretty much any occasion, gets 7 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: me a bunch of local wines. Yeah, it's really sweet. 8 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 2: So I got a bunch of Christmas and I know 9 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: that some of the wine makers from those wineries are women, 10 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: and I was just thinking about it. I kind of 11 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: joked with Samantha before this that I feel a little 12 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: weird were running this one because I know it's like 13 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: dry January for a lot of people. And if you're 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: doing that, more power to you. I hope it's going 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: well for you. But this was just something on my 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: mind as I was looking at the lineup of wines 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: that my mom got me. She also Samantha, you know 18 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: I don't like snacks. She got me in my stocking 19 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: this year. She got me Brahmen packets and Shasheto peppers 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: like dry tchishiedo peppers, and I was like, this is amazing, 21 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 2: you have one. 22 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: He knows you. She knows you so well. That's beautiful. 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: Yes, so please enjoyed. It's classic episode. 24 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, welcome to the stuff Mom never told you from 25 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 3: how Stuff Folks not com. 26 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. 27 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 3: And today we are talking about viticulture and analogy. 28 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: Ooo. Those are fancy words. Yeah, we're just talking about wine. 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, Viticulture the cultivation or culture of grapes. Analogy a 30 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 4: science that deals with wine and wine making. 31 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 3: And wine itself is considered quote our original alcoholic beverage, 32 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 3: dating back eight thousand years, according to the book Inventing 33 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 3: Wine by Paul Lucas. 34 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 4: It's also the only thing that they drink in a 35 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 4: Game of Thrones. I think I don't think I've ever 36 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 4: seen anyone drink water. I think they just drink wine. 37 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: Probably because the water is full of poison, full of 38 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 3: dragon poison. 39 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 4: This well, anyway, wine, you know, it's more than just 40 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 4: the boxed wine that I may or may not buy 41 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 4: on a regular basis. Wine is actually linked inextricably, according 42 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 4: to Ann B. Mattissar, with religious worship, revelry, camaraderie, and 43 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 4: upper class entitlement. And she says that it's often been 44 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 4: a beverage reserved for men of privilege. 45 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 46 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 3: She writes in her book Women of Wine, The Rise 47 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 3: of Women in the Global Wine Industry, that women regardless 48 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 3: of social standing, were associated with wine excesses rather than 49 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 3: its benefits, and neebraated women were frequently linked to indiscriminate sexuality, promiscuity, 50 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 3: and adulteres. So, right from the get go in our 51 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 3: conversation about wine and women, it starts off on a. 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 4: Bit of a sexist foot. Yeah, Sally would not approve 53 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 4: of this. She would be like, oh, heavens, Sally, your mom, Sally, 54 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 4: My mom drinks quite her fair share of wine. We're 55 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 4: big wine drinkers in our family. I say we, but 56 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 4: I really mean my mom and her sisters. 57 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: So wine would not be a stuff your mom never 58 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: told you. Right, Well, not. 59 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 4: That we've talked about it, but I learned from the best. 60 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: Let's put it that way. 61 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 3: Well, Sally is among plenty of friends. In the United States. 62 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 3: Americans really love their wine. In fact, in twenty twelve, 63 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 3: three hundred and forty two million cases of wine were consumed, 64 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 3: which is a seven percent increase from five years ago. 65 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 3: So not only are we drinking a lot of wine. 66 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: We're drinking more wine than ever before in the United. 67 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 4: States, and by volume, we Americans consume more wine than 68 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 4: any other. 69 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: Nation actually, but not so surprisingly on a per capita basis. 70 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 3: The French, for instance, drink a lot more wine than 71 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: we do. They drink five bottles for everyone that we drink. 72 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 4: And also as a nation, we Americans are just as 73 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 4: likely to reach for wine as for beer, which is 74 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 4: actually a huge shift from twenty years ago. 75 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: We're drinking a lot more wine now. 76 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, And some think that the spike in our wine 77 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: consumption is due to two things. First of all, the recession, 78 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 3: because let's face it, tubuc chuck from Trader Joe's. 79 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: Can get you a pre drunk on a dime. 80 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 3: And they also attribute it to changing preferences of millennials, 81 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 3: because because a twenty twelve Gallup poll found a thirty 82 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: point drop in beer preference among people under thirty, so 83 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: young'uns like you and I, Caroline are really enjoying wine 84 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 3: more interesting, I wonder, I wonder what's behind the drop 85 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: in beer, not just the rise in wine. 86 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: But the drop in beer also. I mean, they also. 87 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 4: Attribute this rise in wine lovin to drinkers over fifty 88 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 4: and women in particular. 89 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, women love wine. 90 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: One of the reasons why we wanted to do this 91 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 3: episode on wine is because I feel like, at least 92 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 3: if you were to choose a type of alcoholic beverage 93 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: that women are going to go for, if they walk 94 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 3: up to an open bar, it's gonna be a glass 95 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 3: of wine, probably a glass of white wine, or maybe 96 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 3: a vodkatonic. But that's another episode. But women by eight 97 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 3: out of ten bottles of wine consumed at home, according 98 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: to the magazine Wine Business. 99 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, and according to a gallop pole that you talked about, 100 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 4: fifty two percent of women prefer wine over beer. And 101 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 4: that's up from forty three percent twenty years ago. 102 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: Now, looking at men. 103 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 4: Only twenty percent of men choose wine as their favorite 104 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 4: boozy beverage, but even that is up five percent from 105 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 4: twenty years ago. 106 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 107 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 3: And to me, the fact that women comprise an overwhelming 108 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 3: majority of the wine buyers for the wine that we 109 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 3: have in our households and also wine drinkers. It stands 110 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 3: in contrast to that quote from Women and Wine about 111 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 3: the history long ago where women were associated only with 112 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: wine's excesses and as we'll see in the making of wine. 113 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 3: In the viticulture, women have often been relegated to the side, 114 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 3: only allowed to do certain smaller tasks, whereas the making 115 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 3: of wine has been more of a thing for men. 116 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 3: And yet today we are drinking more of it. But 117 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 3: maybe because of that colored history that we have with wine, 118 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 3: women are still considered a niche market. 119 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of ways we are. 120 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 4: And that's interesting when I was reading all this stuff 121 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 4: about how we are this niche market. I mean, I 122 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 4: think it's obvious when you google anything about women and wine, 123 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 4: A lot of what you get is this really sappy advertising, 124 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 4: this slag women and wine and shoes and women and 125 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 4: wine and baking and women and wine and tools. I 126 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 4: don't know, but you know, like I said, me, growing up, 127 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 4: I was surrounded by female wine drinkers. 128 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: My dad didn't drink wine. 129 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 4: So I've always thought of like wine as a more 130 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 4: feminine beverage. 131 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 3: And yet the industry is just now catching up to that. 132 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 3: For instance, in two thousand and six, we have the 133 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: launch of Wine Adventure, which proclaims itself the first wine 134 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 3: magazine for women. Side note why there needs to be 135 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 3: a wine magazine for women? 136 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 4: I don't really understand, right, And that's kind of what 137 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 4: Slate writer Mike Steinberger was talking about in a two 138 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 4: thousand and five piece where he really seemed confused to 139 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 4: hear the news that wine wasn't already a happily co 140 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 4: ed party. And he said that to suggest that women 141 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 4: have a distinct set of grievances about how wine is 142 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 4: critiqued ignores the fact that quite a few men are 143 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 4: equally disaffected and often leads to that kind of patronizing, 144 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 4: saccharine journalism that most women and men rightly abore. And 145 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 4: he said that the wine market has a consumer gap, 146 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 4: not a gender gap. He said, it's not so much 147 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 4: that we need to like capture this niche market of 148 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 4: women or you know, older women, younger women. Whoever, it's 149 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 4: more that different consumers are looking for different things. Because 150 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 4: there's the whole thing about like men wanting to buy 151 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 4: wine according to their fancy pants ratings, whereas women are 152 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 4: maybe more inclined to buy wine that they want want 153 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 4: to share with their friends. 154 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 155 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 3: I mean, experts and marketers have paid a lot of 156 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 3: attention to how men and women shop for wine, and 157 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 3: so typically they say that the way that women select 158 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 3: wine has a lot more to do with a food 159 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 3: that's gonna go with it, the setting and what the 160 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 3: bottle looks like, rather than wine credentials like vintage charts 161 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 3: and the acquisition process and ratings that they say that. 162 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: Men are more drawn to. 163 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, I will fully admit here in front of you 164 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 4: and everybody else that I love a good type face. 165 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: On a bottle of wine. 166 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 4: I mean I tend to go for like Charras or 167 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 4: Sarrah like. But I think I've said this on the 168 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 4: podcast before. I can only drink red wine, Like if 169 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 4: I'm out, I can only have a glass. If I'm 170 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 4: at home, I have to be already in my pajama 171 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 4: sitting down because it will put me to sleep. But like, 172 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 4: there's this bottle of wine that has a like a 173 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 4: Luca door mask, a Lucha Libre mask on the cover. 174 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 4: Are the like it's an album on the front label, 175 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 4: and I just I love that. It's like getting a 176 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 4: happy meal toy as an adult. 177 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 3: Well, while your attraction to certain types of labels definitely 178 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 3: messhes with the research, Caroline, you are not of a 179 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: stereotype that women prefer light wines. 180 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: Women Supposedly a woman's wine. 181 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 3: Is a pino grigio, whereas a man's wine is a. 182 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,239 Speaker 1: Broad shouldered cabinet. 183 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 4: Oh, Sally would Sally would agree with these stereotypes. She 184 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 4: drinks a nice pino griege every night with ice cubes, 185 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 4: with ice cubes, Oh for sure. 186 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: Nice. 187 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 3: Well that meshes very well. Caroline with this description in 188 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 3: wine business. As to what women want in wine wine 189 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 3: business says, the short answer is something balanced and drinkable, enjoyable, 190 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 3: and easy to deal with. Screw the unnecessary complexity. 191 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 4: Well, I found that piece to be kind of obnoxious. 192 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: Well sure, because it sounds like, well, I'll just drink anything. 193 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 4: Well, then it also framed wine drinking in terms of 194 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 4: like peacekeeping and conflicts and things like that, which was 195 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 4: very strange and I thought, very pandering, And. 196 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 3: Well, maybe that's an example of the saccharine journalism that 197 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 3: that Slate writer was calling out, saying, why all these 198 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 3: metaphors with wine writing were not just talk about some grapes. 199 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 4: I know, I mean, yeah, there really is this movement 200 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 4: toward treating women wine drinkers. As you know, we're all 201 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 4: like part of this weird airhead brigade that doesn't care 202 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 4: about the wine itself, you know, or well, I mean, 203 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 4: I'm saying this is someone who buys wine according to labels, 204 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 4: but whatever, whatever, they're treating us all like, you know, 205 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 4: we only care about the name of the wine itself, 206 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 4: or like it's appealing to some like girly sex in 207 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 4: the city culture. 208 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: Right, It's okay. 209 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 3: So what has happened here is that marketers have taken 210 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 3: the finding, the overwhelming finding, that women want, say, something 211 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 3: balanced and drinkable. They want ripe, fruit forward wines without 212 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 3: a lot of tannin and oak as. 213 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: Okay, well, you know the way we're going to sell this. 214 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 3: Is we're going to almost inflate that to a chick 215 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 3: lit proportion because I feel like you walk through the 216 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 3: wine section at the grocery store and you could take 217 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 3: labels from these wines that are overtly marketed toward women 218 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 3: and slap them on a beach read yeah, and you 219 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 3: wouldn't know the difference because it's lots of pink, lots 220 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 3: of stilettos, ponytail silhouettes with names like Mommy Juice Made Housewife. 221 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 3: And then to me, the worst, which is this line 222 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 3: called B B E from Treasury War Line of States 223 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 3: it's targeting women twenty one to thirty four, so our demographic, Caroline, 224 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 3: this wine is for us, and their flavors are flirty, 225 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 3: just a pink muscato, bright a pinagregio, fresh an unoak 226 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 3: to chardonnay, and radiant a reasling, and then all of 227 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 3: the language describing it is like a page ripped out 228 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 3: of Sex and the City. 229 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 4: It's so funny because I've had Bright, but I wasn't 230 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 4: aware of any of this that we're just talking about, Like, 231 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 4: I wasn't aware that it was marketed to women, or 232 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 4: that it was supposed to be cutesy or anything like that. 233 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 4: I just thought, oh, well, it's just called this. I 234 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 4: don't think I realized. 235 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: How was it? 236 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 4: Do you remember? It was whinish. It was very whiny, 237 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 4: tasted like wine. 238 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 3: Well, the fact that it was whiny and just tasted 239 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 3: like wine, you know, it didn't really have any. 240 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: Distinctive flavor profiles. 241 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 3: It's what a lot of people would argue that it's 242 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 3: actually doing a disservice to women who like wine, because 243 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 3: a lot of these wines marketed to women are just plunk. 244 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: It's not very good. It's hyper sweet and not high quality. 245 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, not just plank. Bloomberg writer Ellen McCoy says that 246 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 4: it's neutered commercial plank. So they're really trying to sell 247 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 4: you on those stiletto pictures more than they're trying to 248 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 4: sell you on. 249 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: What's in the bottle. 250 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 4: Which you know, I've purchased wine before, like if I'm 251 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 4: going to someone's house and I just you know, I'm 252 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 4: not buying it because it's so fancy and I want 253 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 4: to give them an incredible wine to remember me by. 254 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 4: But like, you know, I went to go stay with 255 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 4: my aunt and Savannah one time, and she's the middle sister, 256 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 4: and so I bought her a bottle of middle Sister wine. Ah, 257 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 4: So like you know, it's like, well, it might not 258 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 4: be any good, or maybe it is. 259 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 3: But it's just but it showed that you were thinking 260 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 3: about her. It was more of a gift in that way. 261 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 3: Another facet of the more recent approach to wine marketing 262 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 3: toward women is how it's not just been a focus 263 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 3: on labels and the titling of things like middle sister, 264 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 3: et cetera, but also in how they're starting to pedal 265 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 3: wine specifically to working moms, as here's your mental health 266 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 3: break I just. 267 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: Need a glass of one. 268 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 3: And I say it in that voice jokingly, but I 269 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 3: do understand the relaxation of having a glass of wine 270 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 3: after your work. I understand where that marketing is coming from, 271 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 3: but I don't know that it's saying, here, women, drink 272 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 3: all of this wine. It's gonna make all of the 273 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 3: gender wage gap and the frustration with the you know, 274 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 3: the imbalance of housework and childcare just magically go away 275 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: for the next forty five minutes. 276 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 4: Oh god, yeah, no, I have totally come home and 277 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 4: popped open my box of wine and poured myself a triple, 278 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 4: quadruple glass. 279 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: But I mean, this is not a joke. This is serious. 280 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 4: There are UK health experts who recently noted that a 281 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 4: rise there was a rise in alcohol related deaths among 282 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 4: women in their thirties and forties, and it's linked to 283 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 4: this increase in wine consumption. 284 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 285 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 3: So, in a way, that kind of marketing, persistent marketing, 286 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 3: could be doing us a health disservice in the long run, 287 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 3: saying you know what, it's wine, it's got those ioxidants. 288 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 3: It's going to give you a mental health break. Just 289 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 3: do it, Just drink it. It doesn't matter the quality. 290 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 3: Just drink all of this really sugary stuff and you'll 291 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 3: be fine. Although moderate consumption at a glass and a 292 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 3: half of wine per day has been linked to positive 293 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 3: health effects and women for things like preventing bone loss, 294 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 3: as we read over at MPR, but again it's all 295 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 3: about modern. 296 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I actually stopped. There was a period. 297 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 4: There was a period where I was going home and 298 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 4: like having a glass of red wine every night. Not 299 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 4: that that's like excessive or bad or terrible or anything 300 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 4: by any means. 301 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: But it got to a point where I was like, 302 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: why am I doing this. 303 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 4: I'm doing this because I've had like a string of 304 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 4: really stressful days at work or whatever. I just got 305 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 4: out of traffic or whatever, you know, and it's like, well, 306 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 4: maybe I should just try other relaxation methods like a bath, 307 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 4: like some yoga, or just lying on a couch even 308 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 4: for a minute when you get home. 309 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 310 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 3: I just I wonder if the messages are being mixed 311 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 3: in terms of with alcoholism and wine. It seems like 312 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 3: it's easier for women to and I say this in 313 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 3: giant air quotes, get away with it, because oh we're 314 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 3: just having We're just having a glass of wine or 315 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 3: two glasses of wine or three glasses of wine, and 316 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 3: oh there's the bottle. 317 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: Yes. 318 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 5: And it's part of this like cultural idea of what 319 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 5: is acceptable and sophisticated and normal and feminine and female 320 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 5: when it comes to like drinking and relaxing, because if 321 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 5: somebody goes home every night and downs half a bottle 322 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 5: of vodka, you're like, oh, well you have a problem. 323 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 3: And if someone goes home and drinks a six pack. 324 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: Of beer, it would say, oh, that's so unlady like, 325 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: why would you be doing that? Yeah, and you're going 326 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: to get a beer. 327 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 3: Good exactly, But there's no we don't hear about wine bellies, 328 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,959 Speaker 3: you know. So that is something it's something that I 329 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 3: have started to keep in mind more for myself because 330 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 3: I've experienced the same thing as you, Carolina, getting into 331 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 3: those patterns of how easy it is to go home 332 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 3: have the wine. And while again in moderation, it's not 333 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 3: a bad thing, I'm uncomfortable when I realize that it's 334 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 3: so much a part. 335 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: Of my routine. I'm almost reliant on it that I don't. 336 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 4: Like and often what you need and I mean, let's 337 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 4: not sound like a broken record here, but often what 338 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 4: you need is like a break when you're stressed out 339 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 4: like that, you need a break. 340 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: Well. 341 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, if I get home from work 342 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 4: and after I've been sitting in traffic or whatever, it's 343 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 4: just well not just as easy, but it's much healthier 344 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 4: to head down to the gym downstairs at my apartment 345 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 4: complex and get on you know, the stationary bike for 346 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 4: thirty minutes. That's the same kind of break, but I've 347 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 4: exercised instead of you know, downing a bunch like half 348 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 4: a bottle of wine exactly, and just as one final 349 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 4: side note, rather than just springing always for the two 350 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 4: buck chuck. One thing I am trying to get better 351 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 4: at is learning more about wine and learning how to 352 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 4: enjoy wine, because when you have a glass of really, 353 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 4: really really great wine, you are going to drink it 354 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 4: more slowly and you're going to savor it, whereas you 355 00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:00,239 Speaker 4: might if you're poured a glass of flirty, pink moscato. 356 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: You're probably just gonna gulp it down because it might 357 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: not be so good. 358 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 3: But speaking of taste, getting back to this conversation on men, 359 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 3: women and wine, we've established the stereotype of women preferring 360 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 3: the lighter sweeter wines and men wanting something bolder and redder. 361 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 3: Do men and women taste wine differently? Are women just 362 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 3: drawn to wine because there's something in our palate working 363 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 3: differently than men's. 364 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: It seems to be. 365 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 4: So. It seems to be that men and women do 366 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 4: taste differently. And I mean, one thing to look at 367 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 4: is that wines themselves are often described as masculine or 368 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 4: feminine in their weight and flavor. 369 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, and for people who are deeply immersed in wine culture, 370 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 3: there is this idea that women do have a finer palette. 371 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 3: For instance, Matt Kramer of Wine Spectator told at age 372 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: that women have more taste buds than men, which makes 373 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 3: them inherently better tasters. And then in another article in 374 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 3: Wine Business, it says as women wine judges, we might 375 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 3: be unfairly harsh. 376 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: We're quick to. 377 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 3: Dismiss any wine that comes out with sharp elbows, too 378 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: much tan and too much acid, or too much wood 379 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 3: and increasingly too much alcohol. So that seems to be 380 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 3: an example of how perhaps our tongues are a little 381 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 3: bit more sensitive to certain flavor profiles. 382 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 4: Right, and sensory psychologist Marcia Pelchat at the Mono Chemical 383 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 4: Census Center in Philadelphia backs up some of these taste differences. 384 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 4: She says that women have more acute senses of smell, 385 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 4: We flat out prefer less carbonation. 386 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: And wine, and we tend to be more. 387 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 4: Sensitive to bitter flavors, and just like butterflies and hummingbirds, 388 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 4: prefer slightly sweeter ones. 389 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 3: But when Letty Tigue, who is a wine calmnist for 390 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal, when she sought out an answer 391 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 3: to a scientific answer as to whether men and women 392 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 3: taste wine differently, and she spoke with a number of smalliers, 393 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 3: some of whom were husband and wife couples, to kind 394 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 3: of get that his and hers comparison. Her conclusion was 395 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 3: that when it comes to wine tasting, the palette seems 396 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 3: to be more a product of exposure and training rather. 397 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: Than biological sex. 398 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 3: So while there might be some sensory differences in the 399 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 3: male versus a female tongue with the preference for sweeter wines, 400 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 3: for instance, I can understand how that exposure can change 401 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 3: your preference because I remember in my younger years, in 402 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 3: college days, of course, I wasn't being exposed to many 403 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 3: fine wines, and from the get go I would want 404 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 3: something more of like a sweeter reasling or a lot 405 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 3: of white wines. I hated Merleau. But now as I've 406 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 3: gotten and I've had more wine, I drink almost exclusively red. 407 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: And I wanted to be a richer in case I 408 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: don't really like sweet all that much. 409 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 4: Anymore, right, Yeah, And I mean I think the same 410 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 4: could go for any type of thing you are training 411 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 4: yourself to and bibe. I mean, you know, it's the 412 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 4: same for beer. I never liked beer when I was younger, 413 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 4: and then when I went to college, not to like 414 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,479 Speaker 4: completely give away to my parents when I started drinking, 415 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 4: but when I went away to college, you know, I'm 416 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 4: just drinking the free junk that's in the keg, and 417 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 4: you know, I hated it, and I would try to 418 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 4: drink like you know, Vodkatonics and. 419 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: Stuff like that. Well, like, as I got older, I 420 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: really really. 421 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 4: Started to like better beer. And now I spend way 422 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 4: too much money on beer. And it's funny because I 423 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 4: dated this this well, this jerk who we were talking 424 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 4: about beers one time and he actually asked me, so, 425 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 4: what guy in your life introduced you to good beer? 426 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,479 Speaker 4: So after he picked himself up off the ground, I 427 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 4: informed him that I just developed a palette for better 428 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 4: beer as I got older. 429 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it does make such a difference. 430 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 3: And I also don't want to seem like I'm trying 431 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 3: to gang up on white wines. I've had experiences too 432 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 3: of drinking a better pinogriggio and or a better chardonnay, 433 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 3: and it does make a difference in it, even though 434 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,239 Speaker 3: that's not normally what I spring for tasting it, I 435 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 3: get it. It's delicious, Yeah, it's buttery, it's light, it's summer, 436 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 3: not all that, but it was still very refreshing. And 437 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 3: I mentioned that Letty T talked with Somalier's both male 438 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 3: and female. And the thing is is that women are 439 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 3: not only making strides in terms of consumption and the 440 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 3: wine industry catching up slowly but surely, and in kind 441 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 3: of roundabout ways to women liking and appreciating wine, maybe 442 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 3: in different ways than men do, but we are also 443 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 3: making strides in the actual production of wine. Although women 444 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 3: have been involved in viticulture for a long long. 445 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 4: Time, well, I mean women may have been involved in 446 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 4: viticulture for a long time, but it's not like we 447 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 4: were always permitted to do some of the heavy liftings. 448 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 4: So to speak, wine making itself has actually long been 449 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 4: gender segregated. 450 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: Women have been not. 451 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 4: Only considered bad luck for the wine, but we've been 452 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 4: considered too chatty and inefficient and weak. 453 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of. 454 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 3: Times women would not be allowed to harvest, crush, or 455 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 3: stomp the grapes for fear that our delicate physique would 456 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 3: mess things up. 457 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: But we were allowed to pick and sort grapes. 458 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 3: But then when it came time to age the wine 459 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 3: in the cellar, ladies, you keep out because and I 460 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 3: tweeted this out when I this in the book Women 461 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 3: of Wine because I found it so hilarious. Some wineries, 462 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 3: even to this day, still ban women from being around 463 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 3: fermenting wine because of the long held menstrual myth that 464 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 3: women on their periods can turn wine to vinegar. 465 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 4: That's interesting because I feel like I am around a. 466 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: Lot more wine on my period. I don't know about you. 467 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: I have a feeling a lot of women can relate. 468 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 3: But that's not to say though, that there weren't a 469 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 3: number of early pioneers. We found an article over at 470 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 3: the Wine Institute just highlighting some women in the US 471 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 3: and specifically in California who were making wine and running 472 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 3: vineyards in the nineteenth century, such as in eighteen eighty 473 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 3: six we have thirty one year old Josephine Tykeson who 474 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 3: found it California Winery, which was pretty unheard of in 475 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 3: the day. 476 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, and she was actually the first woman to do so. 477 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 4: Not to mention the youngest who did not note inherit 478 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 4: it from a family member like a husband or a father. 479 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you go over to Italy or France, for 480 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 3: those really old wine making cultures, the women who would 481 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 3: be involved in the family business, even if they were 482 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 3: next in line to inherit it. A lot of times 483 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 3: because of those outdated ideas about women really not being 484 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 3: up to snuff for making wine would often be pushed 485 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 3: to the side and running the vineyard. But gradually, over 486 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 3: time clearly that has changed. And even in the eighteen 487 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 3: nineties I thought this was pretty interesting, around ten percent 488 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 3: of California wine makers were women. 489 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: So we headed west and started making wine. And in the. 490 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 3: Past fifty years there has been a lot of progress, 491 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 3: especially starting in the nineteen sixties, women really began emerging 492 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 3: as prominent winemakers, owning wineries and assuming management positions outside 493 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 3: of those family ties. Yeah. 494 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 4: In nineteen seventy three, we have Marianne Graff who becomes 495 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 4: the first American woman to graduate in enology from a university. 496 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 4: And moving forward up to the nineteen nineties, we see 497 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 4: the growth of women in the ultra premium luxury wine industry. 498 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: That sounds fancy. 499 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 3: I'm imagining them in totalnecks and blazers with. 500 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: The crests on them. 501 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 4: And don't forget like the elbow pad things. Oh yes, 502 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 4: some elbowpads. But in all seriousness. 503 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety eight, Diane Nurray became the first woman 504 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,479 Speaker 3: chairman of the Wine Institute since it began in nineteen 505 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 3: thirty four. And the same year Napa Valley, Vintnor's and 506 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 3: Sonoma County Wineries Association also elected women board presidents for 507 00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 3: the first time. 508 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 1: And then in the year You're two thousand. 509 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 3: Me, You're two thousand, the first woman was admitted to 510 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 3: the world's oldest Bordeaux brotherhood, which is called the Gerade 511 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 3: of Saint Emilion. And that was actually a really big 512 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 3: deal because this brotherhood had been around for centuries as 513 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 3: a man only thing. Going back to what the author 514 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 3: of Women and Wine was talking about in terms of 515 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 3: wine being that long standing beverage of men of privilege, 516 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 3: and they would have these drinking groups kind of like 517 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 3: if we think about cigar clubs, where you know, men 518 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 3: go and like have cigars, an expensive Scotch and such, 519 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 3: and it would be the wine versions of that. And finally, 520 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 3: in two thousand a woman was admitted, Yeah, it's a 521 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 3: shame that. 522 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: All that wine's going to turn to vinegar. Well, and 523 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: it's also a. 524 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 3: Shame that when she was interviewed about it, I don't 525 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 3: have her name in front of me, but when she 526 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 3: was interviewed about it and someone brought up feminism, she 527 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 3: was quick to dismiss it. She was put off at 528 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 3: the idea that it had anything to do with gender 529 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 3: equality whatsoever. 530 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, there's that. 531 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean nowadays, nowadays, in the twenty thirteen year, 532 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 4: some of our most prominent wine writers, importers, and winery 533 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 4: owners are women. One of those is Mary Ewing Mulligan, 534 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 4: who's the president of Manhattan's prestigious International Wine Center. 535 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 3: And in terms of taste making, smalliers are seeing more 536 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 3: and more women joining their ranks, possibly helped along by 537 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 3: those stereotypes about women having those finer palettes and also 538 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 3: just with women having more interest and opportunities getting in 539 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 3: there because. 540 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: The smallier is I mean to talk about a niche occupation. 541 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 3: And Bloomberg reported earlier in twenty thirteen that of the 542 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 3: press Digitous Institute of Masters of Wine group in London, 543 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 3: there are now eighty seven women among the two hundred 544 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 3: and eighty seven worldwide masters living in twenty three countries, 545 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 3: and in both twenty eleven and twenty twelve there were 546 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 3: more new female Masters of Wine than male. 547 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 4: And nowadays more than forty percent of somalis or women, 548 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 4: Although it hasn't always been an easy climb. One may 549 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 4: of Pesquera, who's a wine director for several restaurants in 550 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 4: several states, says that it's basically taken women a generation 551 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 4: to work up through the ranks of somalis. 552 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: Because they just face such bad attitudes. Yeah, she said, 553 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: many people used to think that I was just the hostess. 554 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 3: But a lot of people though, who are growing familiar 555 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 3: with women Smalia's working say that they actually prefer sometimes 556 00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 3: women to be selecting and suggesting wines for their fine foods, 557 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 3: because they say that women tend to have a more 558 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 3: hospitable approach, which could actually help take some of the 559 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 3: snooty edge off of wine culture. Because I don't know 560 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 3: about you, Caroline, but it is rare that I would 561 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 3: find myself in a restaurant that would have a smallie 562 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 3: approach my table, at which point I would say, I'll 563 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 3: have the house red. 564 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 565 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 4: No, I actually just had sort of an embarrassing moment 566 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 4: the other night. 567 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: I was out at dinner, and you know, having. 568 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 4: The right Okay, obviously I'm not in a restaurant with 569 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 4: Asmalia either, but having the right server to kind of 570 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 4: walk you through, you know, if they know your preferences, 571 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 4: having the right person can make quite a difference. 572 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: Because the other night, my boyfriend I had this waiter. 573 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 4: Who was so like spastic and clearly not really paying 574 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 4: attention to what we were saying. 575 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: He didn't really care about us. 576 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 4: He had these other big tables that he was worried about, 577 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 4: and he like rushes over and he's like, well, you know, 578 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 4: did you want a glass of wine or. 579 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: Something, or like a bottle? 580 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 4: And I was like, well, yeah, I was considering having 581 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 4: a glass. I mean he just rushed through the whole 582 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 4: thing and at the end, I mean I got this 583 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 4: wine that was just so so I had no idea 584 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 4: what I was drinking. 585 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: And so it can be nice to have. 586 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 4: You know, a kind empathetic, sympathetic person walking you through 587 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 4: the wine list, right, because when you know more about 588 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 4: the wine, you appreciate it more. It probably pairs better 589 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 4: with the food, and it makes the entire experience. 590 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 3: More pleasant and worth the sixteen dollars plus that you're spending. 591 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: For that tiny bit of liquid in that giant glass. 592 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: I are these so giant? 593 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 4: I mean, I know why they are, but oh I 594 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:35,959 Speaker 4: like the giant glass. 595 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: I do too. I'm afraid I'm going to break them. 596 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 4: I do have a set of really really nice like 597 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 4: giant wine glasses that I do not pour the recommended 598 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 4: amount into filled on ups like the fish bowl fish 599 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 4: bowl glasses a hurricane sometimes you have fish bowl glass 600 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 4: kinds of weeks. 601 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: It just happens. 602 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 3: So that's about it for our conversation on women and wine. 603 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 3: We've looked at wine from the drinking and sort of 604 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 3: taking it back to the making and the taste making 605 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 3: of it. So now we want to hear from women 606 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 3: wine drinkers out there and men wine drinkers too. Guys, 607 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 3: do you like a white wine as much as a 608 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 3: broad shouldered cabernet. I love that description for some reason, 609 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 3: should broad shouldered cabinet and thoughts as well on this 610 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 3: normalization of not just the drinking of wine, but the 611 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 3: drinking of wine to excess. 612 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 1: And for Europeans listening. 613 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 3: Too, do we sound like a couple of wine fruits 614 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 3: sitting here because we're fretting a little bit over having. 615 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: A glass a day? 616 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 4: Well, to be fair, I'm also calorie counting at the moment, so. 617 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I sometimes I just I put wine with you 618 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: know water. 619 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 3: I'm just like, well, it's in its own calorie free category. 620 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 3: So with that, send us your thoughts. Mom Stuff at 621 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 3: Discovery dot com is where you can email us. You 622 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 3: can also message us on Facebook and tweet us at 623 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 3: Mom's Stuff podcast. And we've got a couple of messages 624 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 3: to share with you when we come right. 625 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: Back from a quick break. 626 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 4: And now here's some letters. 627 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 3: So we got a couple of letters here in response 628 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 3: to our episode on women and Negotiation, which was our 629 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 3: kickoff to our special four part series on lean In 630 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 3: airing on Fridays, which you should really check out if 631 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 3: you haven't already. And this first letter is from Rihanna. 632 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 3: She writes, I took a lot of psychology classes in college, 633 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,919 Speaker 3: and in one of them, the graduate assistant passed out 634 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 3: a photo copied chapter of Women Don't Ask. It was 635 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 3: so eye opening to me that I've kept the chapter 636 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 3: ever since and have tried to actively fight my urge 637 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 3: to avoid confrontation and negotiate even though it scares me. 638 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: I have conflicting feelings on this, though. 639 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 3: Because as a millennial, I've heard constantly over the past 640 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 3: several years that I'm entitled, demanding, impatient, and ambitiously disloyal. 641 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: So the thought that maybe I just expect more. 642 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 3: Than I deserve has kept me from negotiating as much 643 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 3: as I could, because I'm not sure I'm really worth 644 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 3: what I think I am. 645 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: What do you think about that conflict? 646 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 3: Being a woman who, in perception and reality, probably doesn't 647 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,760 Speaker 3: know how to ask for what she wants or deserves, 648 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 3: as well as being a millennial who's perceived as whiny 649 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 3: and demanding and unrealistic. How do we reconcile those two 650 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 3: facts or perceptions. I think that the way to reconcile 651 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 3: that is to still follow those four steps that we 652 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 3: outlined in the Negotiation podcast. On how to really understand 653 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 3: and evaluate your own worth and make the approach without 654 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 3: coming across as being too entitled or demanding. 655 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:02,959 Speaker 1: What do you write? 656 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 4: You can't you can't appear like you're just out for yourself. 657 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 4: You know, you have to express your worth not in 658 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 4: a dollar figure, but your worth in terms of what 659 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 4: you have contributed and what you can contribute over and above, 660 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 4: and then you can make it about the. 661 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: Dollar figure exactly. 662 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 3: I think that making the collaborative approach as we talked 663 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 3: about in the podcast will probably serve you doubly, not 664 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,760 Speaker 3: just as a woman, but as a millennial woman. 665 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know what I mean, Like, I'm so 666 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 4: tired of this millennial stuff. 667 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,959 Speaker 1: Like it's, as you know, every older. 668 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 4: Generation thinks the generations below them are just idiots. So 669 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 4: you're already, i hate to say it, like fighting an 670 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,280 Speaker 4: uphill battle as far as stereotypes go of this generation. 671 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 4: So all of that to say, I mean, I didn't 672 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 4: mean to sound like all negative and jumpy about it, 673 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 4: but you know, all of that to say, you kind 674 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 4: of even have to work a little bit harder at 675 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 4: the negotiation table to let them know that you are 676 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 4: there for them. 677 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: You're there to make the company better. 678 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 4: You're there to do the best job that you possibly 679 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 4: can and really help them out with your impressive skill set, 680 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 4: you know, so they don't just think you're some college 681 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,800 Speaker 4: kid coming to wind to them exactly. 682 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: So good luck negotiating, Rihanna, and thanks for writing in. 683 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: And I have a letter here from Kat. 684 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 4: She says, I'm twenty three years old and in the 685 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 4: second job of my career. With my first job right 686 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 4: after graduating from college, I didn't even try to negotiate 687 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 4: my salary. I wasn't particularly confident in my skills and 688 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 4: was only slightly knowledgeable thanks to my mom and information 689 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,720 Speaker 4: from salary dot com about how much I should expect 690 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 4: to make. I pushed back a bit with my second 691 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 4: and current job, but was shut down almost immediately because 692 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 4: of my relatively little amount of experience. Within the first month, 693 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 4: I'd already gotten lots of feedback that I've been doing 694 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,240 Speaker 4: such a great job and it's only been getting better. 695 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 4: I actually discussed this very topic with a coworker yesterday 696 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 4: and kind of regret not pushing back for more money, 697 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 4: especially given all the positive feedback I've been getting. My 698 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,919 Speaker 4: coworker and I were discussing how long I should wait, 699 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 4: if at all, until I approach my lead for a 700 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 4: potential raise, how to go about doing it, et cetera. 701 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 4: Whenever I decide to pull the trigger on that deal, 702 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 4: I'll definitely be keeping the points you ladies made in mind, 703 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 4: which is awesome. 704 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: Kat. 705 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 4: I hope you, I wish you the best of luck, 706 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 4: and I hope you keep us posted. 707 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and thanks to everyone who's been keeping us posted 708 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 3: with your emails. Mom Stuff at discovery dot com is 709 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 3: where you can send them, and also connecting with us 710 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 3: on Facebook and Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. 711 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: You can also follow. 712 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,800 Speaker 3: Us on Tumblr, stuff Moomnever Told You dot tumblr dot com, 713 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 3: as well as our wonderful Instagram. We are at stuff 714 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 3: Mom Never Told You And speaking of negotiation and lean in, 715 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 3: don't forget This Friday is the fourth and final chapter 716 00:39:54,680 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 3: in our series All about Boston is, So tune in 717 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 3: for that and tune in as well to YouTube, where 718 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:04,240 Speaker 3: you can check us out. 719 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: Four times a week. 720 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 3: YouTube dot com, slash stuff, Mom Never Told You, and 721 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 3: Don't Forget Do you subscribe? For more on this and 722 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 3: thousands of other topics, visit how Stuff Works dot com.