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Speaker 1: I'm Manny and this is Devin, and this is no

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Speaker 1: such thing.

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Speaker 2: The show where we settle our dawn arguments and yours

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Speaker 2: by actually doing the research. On today's episode, how did

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Speaker 2: we all hear that Sierra rumor?

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Speaker 3: I No, there's no no such thing, no such thing,

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Speaker 3: no such thank touch thank no touch thank.

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Speaker 2: All Right, So today's episode is actually a collaboration with

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Speaker 2: our friends over at Panic World, so we would be

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Speaker 2: joined by Ryan and his producer Grant. It is about

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Speaker 2: middle school conspiracy theories and rumors. Uh, we're gonna be

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Speaker 2: talking about a time long long ago, So there's gonna

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Speaker 2: be some language that is not up to date that

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Speaker 2: we're gonna be referencing. For example, throughout this episode, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna use the term hermathodite, which we're using at the

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Speaker 2: time to refer to intersects people, which, if you do

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Speaker 2: not know, are people who have sexual anatomy or reproductive

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Speaker 2: organs or chromosome patterns that do not align with what

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Speaker 2: we assume to be typical definitions for male or female.

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Speaker 2: We're also going to be talking about this idea of

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Speaker 2: people pretending to be a gender that they are not. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: this is very outdated language, and we know that Trench

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Speaker 2: people are not pretending to be something that they're not.

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Speaker 2: I would like to say that that's outdated, but as

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Speaker 2: we discuss in this episode, this is.

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Speaker 1: Current day phenomenon. So let's get into it, all.

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Speaker 4: Right, fellas, we are gathered here today to try and

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Speaker 4: get to the bottom of something that we've been trying

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Speaker 4: to get to the bottom of for a very long time. Now,

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Speaker 4: just some quick text for the listeners. No, where did

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Speaker 4: you go to middle school?

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Speaker 5: Connecticut?

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Speaker 4: In Connecticut and New Jersey?

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Speaker 6: Okay?

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Speaker 4: I went to middle school in Ohio? How about you, Ryan, Massachusetts?

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Speaker 4: And despite the fact that we all went to different

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Speaker 4: middle schools or high schools in different states, I'm willing

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Speaker 4: to bet that we've all heard the same celebrity rumor.

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Speaker 4: And then, you know, we all went to these schools

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Speaker 4: in the early two thousands and so what was the

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Speaker 4: biggest celebrity rumor at your school?

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Speaker 2: Devin, I'm cheating a little bit because it's what the

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Speaker 2: episode is about, but it's not.

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Speaker 4: It's not a you know, we're talking to the listeners.

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Speaker 2: It was that Sierra, the R and B singer was born.

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Speaker 2: At the time we were saying she was born hermapthadite.

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Speaker 1: Today we would say.

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Speaker 2: In yes, and she apparently was on Oprah where she

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Speaker 2: revealed this to the world.

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Speaker 4: Does that sound familiar to you, guys.

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Speaker 3: I've heard different versions of different celebrities with that thing.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, because there was also one for Lady Gaga.

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Speaker 1: Yes, oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: We would have been high school or college. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: it's come around a bunch.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Basically in middle school, the biggest celebrity rumor was that

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Speaker 4: Sierra was what we were calling back then a hermaphrodite,

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Speaker 4: or that she was trans And I've been personally fascinated

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Speaker 4: by the fact that no matter where you went to

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Speaker 4: middle school in the United States, you heard of this

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Speaker 4: rumor or participated in the spreading of it. And the

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Speaker 4: reason why I'm fascinated is because it was so early

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Speaker 4: in social media kind of trajectory, or before social media.

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Speaker 4: I think maybe I was on Zanga at the time,

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Speaker 4: but we weren't really talking about, you know, celebrity rumors,

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Speaker 4: and I really wanted to know where this rumor came

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Speaker 4: from from and how it was able to spread across

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Speaker 4: the country despite the fact that we weren't really online

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Speaker 4: in the sense that we were today. But I think

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Speaker 4: before we try to figure out where this rumor came from,

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Speaker 4: it's important to kind of contextualize what was happening when

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Speaker 4: the rumor started.

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Speaker 7: So Sierra grew.

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Speaker 4: Up in College Park, Atlanta. If you've ever listened to

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Speaker 4: hip hop in the early two thousands, you'll recognize that

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Speaker 4: neighborhood because it was yelled out in virtually every hip

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Speaker 4: hop song.

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Speaker 1: And it's getting best to me of course.

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Speaker 4: And in high school she created a girls singing group

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Speaker 4: called Hearsay with two of her friends. Uh they got

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Speaker 4: so popular that she got a writing deal with Jazzy Fay.

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Speaker 4: Together Jazzy Fans here wrote a few demos. One of

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Speaker 4: those demos is what would Become One two Step, which

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Speaker 4: is the hit single from her debut album, Goodies in

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Speaker 4: two thousand and four, So Much, which featured Missy Elliott,

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Speaker 4: a frequent collaborator of Sierra.

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Speaker 2: I know you heard about a lot of greatam c

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Speaker 2: but they ain't got nothing, no men because.

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Speaker 4: Of Thattua and someone who also had rumors swirling about

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Speaker 4: her sexuality at the time.

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Speaker 3: Goodies.

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Speaker 4: The album debuted at number three on Billboard's Top two hundred,

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Speaker 4: and it was around this time that she also became

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Speaker 4: a sex symbol. She released this single Goodies on the

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Speaker 4: album Goodies, and I just want to play you guys

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Speaker 4: some of the lyrics I bet you want the Goodies

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Speaker 4: that you thought about it got you all hot and

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Speaker 4: bothered mad because I talk around it. If you're looking

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Speaker 4: for the goodies, keep on looking because they stay in

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Speaker 4: the jars. Obviously, the song meaning is that, you know,

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Speaker 4: everyone around her, people in the music industry, are incredibly

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Speaker 4: thirsty for Sierra, and she's telling them that, you know,

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Speaker 4: even though I'm young, like I know what I'm doing,

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Speaker 4: it's not happening. Get over it. It's like common knowledge,

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Speaker 4: I guess in American society, where like people will sometimes

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Speaker 4: make up things about people who have rejected their advances,

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Speaker 4: and I just I do wonder if that had a

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Speaker 4: role to play in this rumor getting started.

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Speaker 3: So we did an episode kind of about the like

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Speaker 3: the entertainment world rumor mill and like how it's evolved now,

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Speaker 3: like the Justin Baldoni stuff. And I have to assume that,

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Speaker 3: like the new version where they're waging war with like

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Speaker 3: troll accounts and stuff, is just a digital version of

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Speaker 3: what was already happening. So like hearing this, which is

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Speaker 3: the first time I've sort of heard this all put together,

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Speaker 3: it wouldn't surprise me if she's writing what is effective,

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Speaker 3: like a shady track about like predatory man in the industry,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden a rumor appears it she

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Speaker 3: is intersector hermaphrodite that feels totally linked to me.

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Speaker 4: And as of right now, I have no evidence, but

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Speaker 4: I think it's interesting when like exactly what time this

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Speaker 4: rumor started coming?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so and we looked at you know, went to

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Speaker 2: classic Google trends, typed in Sierra Man to see when

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Speaker 2: these rumors started. So there's basically nothing until December of

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four, and then it starts to go

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Speaker 2: up a little bit. January starts to go up a

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Speaker 2: little bit more, and then by February of two thousand

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Speaker 2: and five, it's when it hits its peak.

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Speaker 3: Was there any kind of award buzz around goodies?

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Speaker 4: She definitely was nominated for a bunch of the kind

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Speaker 4: of classic awards. I'm not sure if she won any.

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Speaker 3: I should look up computer because I'm wondering if like

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Speaker 3: the peak is because of award season buzz or like

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Speaker 3: I'm wondering, because when we've done sort of similar research,

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Speaker 3: like there usually is like something that you can kind

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Speaker 3: of point to be like maybe that's what caused it.

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Speaker 3: That would be what my thought would be.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it could be.

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Speaker 2: So we looked into this, and in two thousand and five,

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Speaker 2: Sharah was not up for any major awards, and the

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Speaker 2: next year, so two thousand and six, she was nominated

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Speaker 2: for and did end up winning one Grammy Award. So

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Speaker 2: she was at a party in February of two thousand

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Speaker 2: and five, a Vibe magazine party, and this is the

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Speaker 2: quote that everyone sort of keeps going back to New

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Speaker 2: York Daily News. Ask her about it, as far as

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Speaker 2: I can tell, this the first time.

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Speaker 1: YE ask her about it. Yeah, that's it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people ask her directly about this. This

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Speaker 2: is not like behind the scenes rumored. This is like, Sierra,

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Speaker 2: are you a man? This is face to face though.

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Speaker 4: And I guess we should mention that part of a

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Speaker 4: big part of the rumor we heard was that she

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Speaker 4: had actually addressed the rumors on the Oprah Show. There's

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Speaker 4: a bit there's a Mandela effect thing happening where all

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Speaker 4: the thoughts she had already addressed the rumors on Oprah,

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Speaker 4: which never happened exactly.

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Speaker 2: So Vibe ask her basically, what happens and Sierra's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's funny the rumors that I used to

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Speaker 2: be a man. And she said, the funny thing about

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Speaker 2: it is that people are saying I said this on Oprah.

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Speaker 2: I've never been on Oprah. It's gonna take me a

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Speaker 2: while to get on opraen right, Like I just started

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Speaker 2: my career. Oprah's like a milestone. I'm not there yet.

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Speaker 2: So I looked into this. You know, you can't just

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Speaker 2: take Sierra's word for this. Has she ever been on

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Speaker 2: Oprah by this point, she had not, but she was

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Speaker 2: on Regis and Kelly.

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Speaker 1: It'll make a television debut.

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Speaker 5: Want to show with Sierra with goodies?

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Speaker 2: Sierra, you got the TV guys back in the day,

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Speaker 2: the air before Oprah's Voting Party special. So I'm like,

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Speaker 2: maybe people were seeing the ads for you know how

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Speaker 2: they would be like, all right, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, I actually just googled this because I was curious

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Speaker 3: if people were confusing it with another Oprah episode. And

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Speaker 3: she did do an interesting episode in two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 2: Well she did actually in two thousand four. You was

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Speaker 2: segment in August about trans children. Yeah, okay, none of

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Speaker 2: the kids' names were Sierra. I did go through and

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Speaker 2: to be like, all right, maybe is there some confusion here,

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Speaker 2: But yeah, she did do it again in two thousand

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Speaker 2: and seven. I don't know that that. In two thousand

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Speaker 2: and four they were calling them trans. They were saying

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Speaker 2: like gender identity, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Issues.

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Speaker 5: I'm sure that episode has aged great.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure, yeah, everyone, and there's no reason to think

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Speaker 3: about it anymore.

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Speaker 2: She did a great job. So I feel like Oprah

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Speaker 2: is the classic. Like if there's a rumor, you say

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Speaker 2: that you heard it on Oprah. Growing up, there was

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Speaker 2: another rumor that Tommy Hill figure was on Oprah and

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Speaker 2: he told Oprah, I don't like black people wearing my clothes.

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Speaker 3: I remember that.

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Speaker 1: I remember this my mom, Like.

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Speaker 2: I said, I was talking to my mom about this

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Speaker 2: episode and she was like, oh, yeah, I remember. I

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Speaker 2: literally stopped buying Tommy Hill Figure for like a year

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Speaker 2: or two.

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Speaker 3: There was a boycott.

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Speaker 2: I remember, yeah, because we all heard that he was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't like black people wearing my clothes.

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Speaker 4: And it just never happened.

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Speaker 3: No, why did he was on the show at all. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm so fascinating because, like, clearly there is some sort

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Speaker 3: of way that these things are spreading, because I definitely

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Speaker 3: vividly remember up until just a second ago, I thought

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Speaker 3: that that happened. No, So like how because it wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have been the Internet, Like, I'm so fascinated.

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Speaker 2: How were we because it wasn't like we saw something online,

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Speaker 2: like hey, I saw on a Reddit thread, you know,

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Speaker 2: Tommy Hill figure saying he doesn't like black.

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Speaker 4: And there's no there's no reports of him ever saying

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Speaker 4: that and in any kind of context.

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Speaker 5: No, it would be crazy if he said it on right, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 5: pretty amazing to Oprah, Yeah that would take anyway.

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Speaker 3: The nineties were wild. But I don't know if that Yeah,

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Speaker 3: how how would that have happened?

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Speaker 2: So Snop's actually debunked this in February of two thousand

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Speaker 2: and five. Sierra the Sierra Rumor their best as to

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Speaker 2: why people think this is happening. It is because there's

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Speaker 2: a random irishwoman named Sierra who had a blog about

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Speaker 2: her transition, and they're saying, if you google Sierra at

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Speaker 2: this time, this is one of the first things that

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Speaker 2: pops up.

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Speaker 1: So people are saying maybe that's the case. Right. So

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Speaker 1: that's February.

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Speaker 2: But in March, still circulating, we got the Herald News

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Speaker 2: in New Jersey paper.

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Speaker 1: There's an eighteen year old Charles.

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Speaker 2: They're asking him, Charles' what's the craziest news story you

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Speaker 2: heard recently?

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Speaker 1: And he says that Sierra is a man. They printed this.

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Speaker 5: That's a good column.

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Speaker 2: It's one it was like get to know your neighbors

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Speaker 2: segments and that's Charles's.

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Speaker 1: Fun you know, news story night.

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Speaker 4: I actually tried to track down Charles. We found him

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Speaker 4: and I reached out sent him the photo and he

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Speaker 4: did not respond.

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Speaker 2: So we get our first sort of inkling here of

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Speaker 2: maybe where this is coming from. So in March of

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Speaker 2: two thousand and five, there's this chain letter that's going around.

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Speaker 3: Remember chain letters, Yeah, of course they're very important on email.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, on email. And it's a fake article from all

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Speaker 2: Hip Hop. And the gist of the article is that

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Speaker 2: Sierra goes on not Oprah but one O six in

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Speaker 2: Park and.

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Speaker 1: She says I am gay.

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Speaker 8: And then.

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Speaker 1: I'll read what it just says, because it's just crazy.

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Speaker 2: Sierra's coming out as a lesbian would have been difficult

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Speaker 2: on its own but also having to admit that she

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Speaker 2: is really a he on national television was caused for

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Speaker 2: celebration amongst the gay and lesbian community. No major pop

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Speaker 2: star singer has ever come out as a transvestite to viewers,

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Speaker 2: especifically after already releasing an album.

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Speaker 3: So I'm gonna ignore like all of the terms that

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Speaker 3: they're using there because it's a mess. But it is

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Speaker 3: fascinating to me that that is written as like an

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Speaker 3: inspirational thing is basically what I like. That's someone made

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Speaker 3: this up or misunderstood this. I'm imagining that this was

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Speaker 3: probably shared like within like a black gay email community.

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Speaker 3: That would be my guess. Yeah, I got a treasure

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Speaker 3: trove that somebody sent me off, like old chain letters

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Speaker 3: that I've been like looking at over the last few months,

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Speaker 3: and it's really fascinating that like they are very similar

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Speaker 3: to what you would see on Facebook now that they

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Speaker 3: are written specifically for a group like either a list

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Speaker 3: serve or like people who know each other. So it's

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Speaker 3: interesting to me that like that rumor is being shared

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Speaker 3: positively within some sort of in groups.

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Speaker 1: That's cost for celebration.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it's not like they're not being mean a bad.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they're completely confused on what's happening in every

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Speaker 3: possible way. But it is interesting that it's like inspirational

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Speaker 3: as a framing.

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Speaker 2: So then that's you know, beginning of March, sort of

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Speaker 2: mid March, Tierra goes I want in six in Park

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Speaker 2: and this is the first time we for real, yeah,

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Speaker 2: for real, it's time.

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Speaker 1: So if there are any.

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Speaker 4: Rumors anything that's going on with's the era, which there

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Speaker 4: are on the internet and all of the message clear.

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Speaker 1: Air right now.

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Speaker 3: Let the people know what's going on.

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Speaker 8: Any crazy anything, And you know, I gotta say, none

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Speaker 8: of them bother me, but I just do it just

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Speaker 8: to do it, because whatever, there's one thing about me

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Speaker 8: being a man or something like that before I was

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Speaker 8: something when I was born, I got a change, really

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Speaker 8: amaphrodite or something like that.

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Speaker 1: And they said that I went on Oprah and did it.

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Speaker 8: And I'm like, okay, come on, now, you know if

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Speaker 8: I was on Oprah, like I mean, it takes a

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Speaker 8: while before that happens with somebody going to Oprah, you

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Speaker 8: know what I mean, Like that's really big, so we

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Speaker 8: know that didn't happen. If you can find it, though,

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Speaker 8: I'll give you one hundred grand and find you around

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Speaker 8: the water.

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Speaker 1: And do everything for it, if taking and play it

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Speaker 1: for me.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and then there's something else about me being a

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Speaker 8: lesbian or something like that. I mean, it's so sad,

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Speaker 8: and I'm sitting right here in the dressing It's like,

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Speaker 8: it's so funny to me. And want I feel about

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Speaker 8: in life is that the bigger and better things get

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Speaker 8: for you, the more people try to bring you down.

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Speaker 7: And that's just the way I sens the true.

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Speaker 8: So I mean, that's not true.

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Speaker 9: I'm gonna say.

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Speaker 3: It's not true.

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Speaker 4: I watched One of six and park religiously back then, yeah,

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Speaker 4: and being like, damn all my friends lied to me.

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Speaker 7: Yea.

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Speaker 4: I remember watching it just being like, what the hell

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Speaker 4: was that all about?

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Speaker 1: So this follows her for a little, you know that

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Speaker 1: that wasn't the end of it. Of course.

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Speaker 2: July two thousand and five, Entertainment Weekly is doing a

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Speaker 2: write up and they kind of start the article talking about, Hey,

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Speaker 2: the singer, the story goes was born intersexual and stay

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Speaker 2: with us here recently out of herself as a lesbian,

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Speaker 2: her mathedite on Oprah, and it's you know, basically her

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Speaker 2: giving the line of like, no that's not true. Then

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Speaker 2: a year later, so November of two thousand and six,

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Speaker 2: in a Slam magazine article about Kingdom come the not

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Speaker 2: Great jay Z album. Oh there's a review and out

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Speaker 2: of no where the writer goes, and trust me, writing

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00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 2: that last sentence hurt me just as much as when

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Speaker 2: I heard that Sierra was allegedly her math that I

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Speaker 2: thank god she isn't. This is you know, November two

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Speaker 2: thousand and six.

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Speaker 4: It was actually hard tracking this this writer down. I

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Speaker 4: finally did no response as well response. I think people

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Speaker 4: just don't want to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: You know, we give him the opportunity to comment on

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Speaker 2: what you said November and it's review. And then December

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Speaker 2: two thousand and six, AP is doing a profile of

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Speaker 2: her and they're still talking about it.

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Speaker 3: Associated Press, Yeah, that's.

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Speaker 2: The Associated Press. In December of two thousand and six.

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Speaker 2: They say she just wants to have fun, she said,

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Speaker 2: and that includes ignoring wild rumors that began circulating when

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Speaker 2: she first made a name for herself. People were saying

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Speaker 2: that she was dating Missy Elliott, who rapped on Sierra's

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Speaker 2: number one.

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Speaker 3: Hitber That I remember rumors that like Missy Elliot was

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Speaker 3: grooming Sierra.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I remember that.

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Speaker 2: By two thousand and six, like interest for this was

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Speaker 2: pretty down and it didn't really pick up until twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: which was when rumors started going around that Sierra and

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00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,320
Speaker 2: Future were expecting a kid, which makes sense why people

360
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Speaker 2: would be like.

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Speaker 3: Yes, sure.

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00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 4: There was a moment I think in two thousand and

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00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,919
Speaker 4: six or seven where she released a song called like

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00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,360
Speaker 4: a Boy, so it.

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00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,520
Speaker 10: Sounds I.

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Speaker 7: Could switch up the.

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Speaker 4: Boat not a thing, and I think I remember being

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Speaker 4: I thought, I remember thinking, oh, she's kind of poking

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Speaker 4: fun at but it's really about like privilege, I think.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 2: So this comes up in one of these articles where

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Speaker 2: you know, they're making all these innuendos about how people

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Speaker 2: think she's a man, and that was it.

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Speaker 1: That was it.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of a trajectory of is Sierra really a man?

376
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,120
Speaker 2: And this has come up with Lady Gaga.

377
00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,600
Speaker 3: Megan Fox, Megan Fox.

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00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 2: It's like any sort of like sex symbol, yes, pop star,

379
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 2: this like comes up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, especially like there seems to be some sort of

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00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:13,120
Speaker 3: connection between like a sex symbol who starts to figure

382
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,479
Speaker 3: out how to translate that into power and influence. Yes,

383
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 3: like Lady gog in particular, like the claims that she

384
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 3: was intersex or trans appeared like right as she is

385
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,120
Speaker 3: starting to kind of do whatever she wants. And that's why,

386
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 3: like I tend to think there's some sort of like

387
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 3: industry rumor mill yeah, that that comes out to like

388
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 3: knock them down a peg when they start to like

389
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,880
Speaker 3: break off, And that would sort of make sense here too,

390
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 3: Like she's blowing up and now she's like writing songs

391
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,680
Speaker 3: about how like you know, she's gonna do her own

392
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 3: thing or whatever, and she's having a successful album and

393
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 3: then those rumors appear like that. That doesn't seem like

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00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 3: an accident.

395
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Speaker 2: To me, And it makes sense that they go to

396
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,560
Speaker 2: the you know, the intersex or trans thing, right, because

397
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 2: it's always like, oh, you were really into this person

398
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,160
Speaker 2: and now like something thing that like you know, something's

399
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 2: happening that you didn't know what's happening. You've been fooled,

400
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,880
Speaker 2: you've been tricked. So like goes at this like insecurity

401
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 2: that people have about like oh, no, I thought it

402
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 2: was straight, but now I'm into this person who you're

403
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 2: telling me is.

404
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,159
Speaker 3: She must be trained exactly. I mean, it's also just

405
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,160
Speaker 3: super hard to prove in fact, like yeah, we should

406
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,119
Speaker 3: mention like literally right now, Candice Owens is being sued

407
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 3: by the president and his wife of France.

408
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 10: Brigitte Macrone, wife of the French president Manuel Macrone, now

409
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,919
Speaker 10: says she's going to present scientific and photo evidence in

410
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 10: court to prove her sex. This is part of the

411
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 10: couple's court case here in the US, as they're suing

412
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,640
Speaker 10: the woman on the right side of your screen, conservative

413
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,199
Speaker 10: commentator Candice Owens for saying on her platforms Macrone was

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Speaker 10: born male.

415
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Speaker 3: So like that's how pervasive these sort of things come up.

416
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 3: I think.

417
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was shocking to me going through this that

418
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 2: so much of this was in like printed like actually.

419
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Speaker 5: I was surprised by that.

420
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 2: I thought it would be more just like blogs and

421
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,439
Speaker 2: of course there's people you know, it's a common blogs

422
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: and stuff, but a lot of it was like actually

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00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 2: printed in like you know, Chicago Tribune and like AP

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00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: like real newspapers.

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00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,360
Speaker 3: Well, I think the assumption was that like no one

426
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 3: would ever see it outside of Chicago. It's like it's

427
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 3: not you know, we're very new into a world where

428
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 3: we can see what people in Chicago are reading. Yeah,

429
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 3: like that's kind of a crazy idea. Yeah, we could

430
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 3: see what people in other countries are writing, like that's

431
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 3: never been the case.

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Speaker 2: All Right, we're gonna take a little break and then

433
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:41,439
Speaker 2: we're gonna hear about Ryan's favorite middle school conspiracy. So

434
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 2: we had some pretty incredible responses to our shower episode.

435
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 2: Some of you said the episode changed your lives. Carolyn

436
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 2: wrote in saying, Hi, guys, I'm a white girl. We

437
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 2: didn't actually wash her lights in the shower. Your dermatologist

438
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 2: guest embarrassed the hell out of me, So now I

439
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: take an extra ten seconds wash my legs. Great job, Carolyn,

440
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 2: But some of you weren't convinced, like this listener who

441
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 2: called in.

442
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 6: I typically only shower once or twice a week, to

443
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 6: be honest, and in the office two days a week.

444
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 6: So Monday night I'll take a shower so that I'm

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00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 6: clean for Tuesday. Wednesday, I'm fine. Thursday, I go back

446
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 6: into the office, bill home, take another shower, and nobody

447
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 6: has seen to complain to me. Maybe I'll shower on

448
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 6: Friday before the weekend, but like, I don't really care.

449
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 6: Nobody's ever pulled me aside, and like, hey, you.

450
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 3: Stick, I don't know, man.

451
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 6: Then then I think he has doing it too much,

452
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 6: know what the dermatologist said, but I think you're going

453
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 6: a little too much.

454
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 3: Okay.

455
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 5: Uh.

456
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,959
Speaker 3: You guys remember like the first time you ever heard

457
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 3: about like drugs, like, oh yeah, my parents house. Yeah, okay.

458
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 3: I also remember sort of like watching like a Dare presentation,

459
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 3: being like should you just be telling us like how

460
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 3: drugs were where to get them? But it's around this

461
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 3: time I think that I first heard of what I've

462
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 3: considered like the funniest, stupidest middle school rumor. I think

463
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 3: it's endlessly funny. Have you guys ever heard of jenkam?

464
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

465
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 8: No.

466
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 1: Vaguely, the word sounds familiar.

467
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 3: Ab yeah, not the jeans, No, okay, that's jinko. So jenkam.

468
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 3: I'm going to describe it to you and I hopefully

469
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 3: you don't throw up. But there was a rumor in

470
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 3: the late nineties, I want to say, mid to late nineties,

471
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: early two thousands that you could get high by pooping

472
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 3: and peeing in a bottle and then huffing it. And

473
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,959
Speaker 3: it became a massive moral panic for local news stations

474
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 3: across the country, and it was called jenkam. And I

475
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 3: remember like one I remember hearing about it, the idea

476
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 3: of like two kids were found getting high on jenkom

477
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 3: by the river or whatever, or like by the quarry,

478
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 3: and like it was this thing that like, and I've

479
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 3: talked to other people over the years who remember the

480
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: Jenkom panic of the late nineties, And so we're gonna

481
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 3: be talking about the Jenkom panic of the late nineties.

482
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 3: And my producer, Grant, who's over there in his little cuckchair,

483
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 3: he's going to show you a news clip all about jencom.

484
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 11: Here is a shocking heads up for parents about teen

485
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 11: drug use. One Florida Sheriff's Department warns there's a new

486
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 11: way for your kids to get high and as Fox

487
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 11: series Jack Miller reports, they're using raw sewage.

488
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 7: The Washington Post, the Drugs Report, and Inside Edition are

489
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 7: all talking about jenkom.

490
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: It could be uh toxic in harmony.

491
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 7: The bulletin describes jencom as gas produced by raw sewage

492
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 7: that's allowed to ferment. Pictures show young people who appear

493
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 7: to be breathing in jencom. When we mentioned this new

494
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 7: concoction to people on the street here in Jacksonville, not

495
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 7: only had they never heard of it before, but they

496
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 7: said they didn't want to get anywhere near it.

497
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 3: It sounds horrible. Yeah, I couldn't imagine doing something like that.

498
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 3: That guy looks like the exact kind of guy that

499
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: would do Jacob, and the fact that he's like, I

500
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 3: don't want to touch it means it's not real. That's

501
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 3: that's that's how you know, because that guy is like

502
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 3: that guy looks like a bath salts guy, and he's like,

503
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 3: I don't want to touch Jencob.

504
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 2: Honestly, they need to find something better to do with

505
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: her life, seriously, because.

506
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 5: That's just insane.

507
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 9: I can't imagine anybody doing something like that.

508
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 5: Sounds pretty sick to me.

509
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 7: Huh, okay, not anything you would ever consider.

510
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 3: Never what are your thoughts?

511
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 5: Here?

512
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 3: Are your first reacted?

513
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 4: Isn't Jencob essentially how the ninja turtles are created in

514
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 4: this like the fumes from human from waste, that's disgusting.

515
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever heard of this, so.

516
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 3: You two, haven't you ever hearing? But what's the context

517
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: you heard it in?

518
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think I heard. I don't think

519
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 5: it permeated to the news where I was. I think

520
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 5: I just heard it from some other kids. It must

521
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 5: have been something like that.

522
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 4: What I'm curious about is it was it a thing happening?

523
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 4: Is are we talking about a trend here or like

524
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 4: this it's a rumor of something that actually wasn't happening.

525
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 3: Well, we're gonna get into that, but I would first

526
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 3: sort of classify along with like all the other like

527
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 3: get high on your own stories like smoking banana peals, or.

528
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 4: They have a highlighter, highlighter.

529
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, So so let's let's let's run through it here.

530
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 3: Nineteen ninety five. According to Snopes, it's the first. The

531
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: first documentation of Jenkim comes from an international newswire service

532
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 3: in Luksaka, Zambia, and it reads, human excrement is scooped

533
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 3: up from the edges of the sewer ponds in old

534
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 3: cans of containers, which are covered with a polyurethane bag

535
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 3: and left a steward froment for a week. The contents

536
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 3: are then inhaled, and the result is a lung full

537
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,719
Speaker 3: of biogases and a powerful hit. Jencom Hoffers bury their

538
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 3: entire face in the ghastly mask, gasping it all in

539
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: Oh my God. And so we had talked earlier in

540
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 3: the first half about how like one of the most

541
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: interesting things about like the the late nineties and the

542
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 3: two thousands is the move to being able to see

543
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 3: all of the news for the first time. Like the

544
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 3: news went from like a thing you saw on your TV,

545
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: local affiliates or local newspaper, and then maybe you have

546
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 3: a national newspaper, but online, all of a sudden, these

547
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 3: articles are being uploaded. You saw the old screenshot of

548
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 3: the Washington Post. There is that really what it used

549
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: to look like?

550
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 7: Ye?

551
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, these things looked ugly as hell. And you were

552
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 3: also seeing the rise of websites like the Drug Report,

553
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: which launches like in the mid to late nineties. Who

554
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: are now aggregating this stuff because it's like no one

555
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 3: kind of thought about it was an afterthought. Do you

556
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 3: guys know about aeroid dot org? M okay, I love

557
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 3: aeroid dot org. It is a website. It's essentially the

558
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 3: Wikipedia of drugs, and it has a whole section called

559
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 3: trip reports where people like take drugs and then write

560
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 3: out like insane stories of it's a lot of people

561
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 3: robot tripping in the bathrooms of taco bells across the country,

562
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 3: and so they they like look into it and they

563
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 3: say it's not gonna get you high, and they say,

564
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 3: we have no knowledge about the accuracy of these reports,

565
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 3: but it's certainly possible. The kids in Zambia thought it

566
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 3: would be funny to make up a story for adult

567
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 3: aid workers that they were inhaling the s who were

568
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 3: gas to get high, which I think is like very possible.

569
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 3: By the late nineties, the story is stuck around long

570
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: enough to make it to the New York Times and

571
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 3: the BBC, so the BBC rights jenkim is cheap, potent

572
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 3: and very popular among the thousands of street children in Lutsaka.

573
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 3: When they cannot afford glue or are too scared to

574
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 3: steal petrol, these youngsters turn to Jenkam as a way

575
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 3: of getting high. It lasts about an hour, says one user,

576
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: sixteen year old Luke Mombande, who prefers Jenkam to other substances.

577
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 3: With glue, I just hear voices in my head. But

578
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 3: with jenkin I see visions, I see my mother who

579
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 3: is dead, and I forget about the problems in my life.

580
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 3: So I think there's a couple of things. One, I

581
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: do believe that erowood users are absolute freaks enough to

582
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: have tested it like they will test anything. I also

583
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: think it's possible that there were nine or ten translation

584
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: issues happening here. I also think that the BBC, especially

585
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 3: in the late nineties, was looking for poverty porn, and

586
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 3: there's like an entire genre of this. I think that

587
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: there's also like a thread that takes this all the

588
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 3: way to Crocodile. Do you remember that? So crocodile was

589
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 3: a drug that was purportedly being used by Russians in

590
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 3: the late two thousands, where they would mix gasoline and

591
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: heroin and their skin would fall off.

592
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

593
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 3: Not only in the late nineties and two thousands, where

594
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 3: people suddenly being able to see the news for the

595
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: first time, they were creating blogs to write poorly about

596
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 3: the rest of the world. So you had like I

597
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: Love Africa dot com or whatever, and it's some white

598
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 3: guy who has no idea was talking about and he's

599
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: like blogging about his time as an aid worker there,

600
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 3: or I Love Russia dot com and it's weird, crazy

601
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 3: Russian story. So that's sort of the environment that this

602
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 3: is taking place in. I guess, like, do you guys

603
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 3: remember anything even similar to this in your in your

604
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 3: early days on the Internet, like like weird news stories

605
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 3: that would sort of fly by, or weird blogs like

606
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 3: writing about this kind of thing.

607
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 4: Well, I remember like the Marilyn Manson rumor that he

608
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 4: like removed his his rib cage so that he could.

609
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 3: Go down on himself. That was the big one in

610
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: my middle.

611
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 11: Yeah.

612
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 4: But in terms of like these kind of like kind

613
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 4: of fleeting drug related not not not a whole ton,

614
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 4: I guess, like with Jencom, even though I'm sure it's

615
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 4: made up to some degree, it does feel believable. I

616
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 4: guess because of the because of the cost effectiveness. I

617
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 4: suppose like it is free. I suppose you just made

618
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 4: a model. Yeah, and if it's getting you, if it's

619
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 4: supposedly getting you a better high, then you.

620
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 3: Can see visions. You can see your dead mom in

621
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 3: a vision with this one. But glue, you only hear stuff.

622
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 3: I looked into this for the first time a couple

623
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 3: of years ago, twenty fifteen. I was on a podcast

624
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 3: I used to run with my friend Katie called Internet Explorer.

625
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: We looked into it and we basically found that it

626
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: was completely fake and largely a way to troll local

627
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: police and local media. And Grant is going to show

628
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 3: you an image that looks gross. Oh my god, it

629
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 3: looks like a little boy sticking a straw into a

630
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 3: bottle full of poop and pea.

631
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: Which aren't you supposed to huf it? Why is he?

632
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: But if you didn't know that and you just saw

633
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: this imagery, be like, was there a glass bottle of

634
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: you who like?

635
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 9: Yes?

636
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 11: Now?

637
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 3: Okay, So this is a young man who went by

638
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: Pickwick on the message board totsy dot com and he

639
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 3: posted these photos of what appeared to be him huffing

640
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 3: balloons full of poop and pea and bottles it with

641
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 3: straws and stuff, And he wrote, Okay, today I set

642
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 3: it up and put the bottle in the hot sun.

643
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: My friend took pictures of all the steps. First I

644
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 3: shpit in the battle, then I pissed in it. I

645
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 3: took a balloon and I stretched it over the top

646
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: to catch all the gases. Now wait a few days

647
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 3: and hope the balloon fills up. Then he posts again, well,

648
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 3: today I finally did it. I probably became the first

649
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 3: person in America to huff his own shit gas. He

650
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 3: then continues, after breathing in, I immediately felt that I

651
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 3: was passing out. I did not even have time to

652
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 3: spit before I became unconscious. When I woke up, my

653
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 3: spittle had oozed out of my mouth down my chin.

654
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 3: I asked my friend how long I was out for.

655
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: He said about a minute, and that he had repeatedly

656
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: tried to wake me up, but I would not wake up.

657
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 3: After I was fully into the dream like state, visual

658
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 3: hallucinations began to start. I had fleeting visions people who

659
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 3: seemed completely random, like my second grade teacher. At the

660
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: peak of my trip, I saw things like pillars and

661
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 3: my lung that disappeared into shapes, and like, obviously he's

662
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 3: making this up to see if can get people to

663
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 3: huff their own shit. Yeah, Like, I think that is

664
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: the way to think about this. What do you think

665
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 3: happens next in this story? After now we have message

666
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 3: board users trying to convince each other.

667
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 9: To do this.

668
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 3: What do you think happens next?

669
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 6: Oh?

670
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 4: Man, I imagine like a sizable amount of people try

671
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 4: it and don't get high and realize they've been had.

672
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 5: Someone has to get sick from actually trying it.

673
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 3: So we don't have a ton of data on that,

674
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 3: but what we do have is how it spreads to

675
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 3: four chan next, and the idea is to send letters

676
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 3: to your principle to get your principal to hire a

677
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: DARE officer to then tell the kids at your school

678
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 3: about Genish God. And so we have a massive wall

679
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 3: of text here. I'm going to read some of it here.

680
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: So you're supposed to email this to your school principle. Okay,

681
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 3: so you're supposed to it, says Step one, email us

682
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 3: to your principal. Step two, question mark, question mark, question mark,

683
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: Step three profit. And what you're supposed to write is

684
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 3: I am writing anonymous because I do not want my

685
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: child to get in any trouble. But I need to

686
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 3: alert you to something your students are doing that it

687
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 3: is potentially very dangerous. Yesterday afternoon, I came home early

688
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 3: to find my son and his friends getting high on

689
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 3: something called jenkam, which they had which they say they

690
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 3: heard about at school. This jenkam is the most disgusting

691
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 3: thing I've ever heard of. And then I'm not going

692
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: to describe how they describe how.

693
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 6: To do it.

694
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 3: And can you guess what happens once people started doing.

695
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: This, Oh, the school, it's definitely took debate computer.

696
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 3: Yes, this is from the Collier County Sheriff's Office Criminal

697
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 3: Intelligence Bureau, and it is a drug bulletin about a

698
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 3: new drug called jenkam.

699
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 4: Oh they've got the image of the kid, and that's right,

700
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 4: good for him.

701
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 3: And this is actually very similar to a couple of

702
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 3: bulletins we found passing around Mexico. Do you remember the

703
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 3: Momo challenge.

704
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 4: Momo challenge.

705
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 3: It was like a disgusting statue that if you looked

706
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 3: at it, it would like curse you on the internet.

707
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: So it became like a huge mass panic that like

708
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: children were committing suicide after seeing this statue of this

709
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: evil chicken woman, and Mexican police were creating bulletins like

710
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 3: that and passing them around as well. So like this

711
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 3: is this is how far back this idea goes. And

712
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 3: then of course the Washington Post they write about it,

713
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 3: they fall for it, they take down the post. Oh,

714
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 3: Fox News falls for it, and they write, we wouldn't

715
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 3: classify it as a drug so much because it's faces

716
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 3: and urine, says Garrison County as spokesman for the Drug

717
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 3: Edforce and Administration in Washington. You pretty much you pretty

718
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 3: much hit the at the bottom of the.

719
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 1: Barrel if you experiment which fair.

720
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and eventually Pickwick, the guy who does the pictures

721
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 3: of him huffing the bottle, he admits that it's all

722
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 3: fake and that what you've been looking at, don't worry

723
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 3: is a mixture of nutella, water flour, and beer, and

724
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 3: he wrote, I never inhaled any poop gas and got

725
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 3: high off it. I have deleted the pictures, hopefully no

726
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 3: weirdos save them on his computer. Yeah we did. Yeah,

727
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 3: I just don't want people to ever recognize me as

728
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 3: the kid who have poop gas. Well, sorry, Bud, So.

729
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 4: This is him feelings like some level of guilt that

730
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 4: all of these places picked it up. I thought that

731
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 4: was kind of the goal.

732
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 3: I think it's a couple of things. One, I think

733
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 3: we are at a really pivotal moment in the late

734
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 3: ninety two thousands where the Internet is just getting big

735
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 3: and no one really understands how big it's getting, and

736
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 3: you have early message boards that are beginning to network

737
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 3: with larger message boards. Four Chan comes around in like

738
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 3: two thousand and three thousand and four, So like all

739
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 3: of that stuff is starting, the media is probably doing

740
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 3: a thing, and I'm trying to like think back to

741
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 3: my time in that period like in Jay school, and

742
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 3: I'm learning about it, and I believe what it was

743
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 3: was like you had a newsroom. They'd write their stories

744
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 3: and then they would just upload them online and forget

745
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: about it. So they're all of a sudden getting viral

746
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:53,959
Speaker 3: traffic for the first time, and they're like the first

747
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 3: big viral New York Times piece. I forget what it was.

748
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 3: I looked it up years ago. I think happens in

749
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 3: like two thousand and nine, when like they're like, whoa,

750
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 3: this is like a big thing of traffic. So all

751
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 3: of these stories are being passed around, no one's really

752
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 3: paying attention, and these worlds are colliding. And I think,

753
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 3: if I had to imagine this, pickquick kid was like,

754
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 3: uh oh, you know, if you have pictures showing up

755
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 3: in like a bulletin for like local law enforcement, who's

756
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 3: like a whole other thing here, Like local law enforcement

757
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 3: have been using the Internet in weird ways for twenty

758
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 3: thirty years that no one really still to this day

759
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 3: pays attention to. I think all these horses are just

760
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 3: combining in ways where like people just weren't prepared for

761
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 3: how viral it could go.

762
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 4: It's interesting too, how the Sheriff's department handled this. I mean,

763
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 4: on one hand, I wonder what is their responsibility, But

764
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 4: on the other hand, it's like they didn't seem to

765
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 4: do any kind of an investigation to see whether it

766
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 4: was real or not before they put out this.

767
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 5: They're trying to get ahead of it.

768
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like that's all the sort of like

769
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: kid panics, like they just react first and then try it.

770
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't even know if they ever

771
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: try to, like you, if it's real.

772
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 5: Well, like, Ryan, have you looked into like did you

773
00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 5: ever cover the tie pods thing?

774
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 12: Teenagers appearing to eat laundry detergent pods and posting the

775
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 12: pictures on social media. Photos showed the pods being used.

776
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 12: It's pizza toppings or a bowl of them mixed with

777
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 12: bleach for breakfast.

778
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 5: That seems like the more modern corollary, and I'm curious

779
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 5: how that.

780
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 3: What we found was that the majority of tiepods being

781
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: smoked or huffed or eaten or whatever were either from

782
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 3: trolls or darker like there was a string of old

783
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 3: people with dementia thinking they were candy and it was

784
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 3: one of those things where it like bubbled up out

785
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 3: of consumer reports and sort of took on a life

786
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 3: of its own and no one really knew how to

787
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 3: deal with it. A similar trajectory would be Nike will Chicken,

788
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: Like the idea of that TikTok users are boy and

789
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 3: Chicken and Nike, Well, which I did do eventually, by

790
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 3: the way, it smells horrible, don't do it, but you

791
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 3: can find that on our pages. But like it's another

792
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 3: one where it's like the institutions don't know how to

793
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 3: address the rumor without amplifying it. Yeah. Yeah, And so

794
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 3: like one because you know, with journalists, like if local

795
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 3: law enforcement have a press conference and like teenagers are

796
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,959
Speaker 3: huffing their own shit, the journalists is like, well, police today,

797
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 3: So the teenagers are huffing their own shit, And nowhere

798
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 3: in that in that interaction is anyone going, well, are

799
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 3: they huffing their own shit? Yeah, And like that is

800
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 3: kind of the story of almost all of American media.

801
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 3: Like we're at in a kind of more serious twist

802
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 3: on this, Like this is playing out right now with

803
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 3: like ice raids and stuff, like local law enforcement will

804
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 3: say something, or or a law enforcement agency or a

805
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 3: government agency will say something, and journalists will just write

806
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 3: down that they set it, and by the time that

807
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 3: that travels there might be another journalists in the background

808
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 3: going well is this real? Is this right? And people

809
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 3: have already moved on, and like it can happen for

810
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: silly stuff and it can happen for serious stuff.

811
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: I thought about this with the ice rates stuff.

812
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 2: But are making now these like crazy social media like

813
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 2: videos that are like, yeah, it's like a movie and

814
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 2: you're showing people's faces and I'm like, Okay, we don't

815
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 2: know what these people have done at all. And now

816
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: you're in some like hype reel for for ice right,

817
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: and it's like you just took me out of my home.

818
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 2: It's like what if there are no charges on this person.

819
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 2: It's like it's already too far gone. Yeah, you're already well.

820
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 3: I think that's the evolution of a story like Jenkin,

821
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 3: which is like like, now the institutions have direct access

822
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 3: to information channels. As we looked into more panics into

823
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 3: the twenty tens, tide pods, for instance, you'll just start

824
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 3: to see local fentanyl is a great example of this,

825
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 3: where the law enforcement just have a Facebook page. Yeah,

826
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: and he just posted the Facebook page like people are

827
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 3: dying from like touching fentanyl and there's no journalists involved there.

828
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 3: And the final evolution of that would be the the

829
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 3: DHS doing like sizzle reels for ice raids where they

830
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 3: don't need any media coverage. They can just transmit it directly.

831
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 3: And that is a really weird world to live, because

832
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 3: it wasn't that this one was good. I mean, the

833
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 3: old world pretty is jenkin, but the new world, God

834
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: knows what's happening. Yeah, you know, after the break, we're

835
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: going to be talking about something that's already popped up today,

836
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 3: which is Marilyn Manson trying to suck his own dick,

837
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 3: which was the big rumor, probably the biggest rumor of

838
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 3: my middle school. But we're going to talk about that

839
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: right afterward from our sponsors, who are probably furious. Okay,

840
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 3: So you guys had been wondering about the Marilyn Manson rumor,

841
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: and we did a little digging into where this came from,

842
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: and according to Hysteria mag the rumor began on the

843
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 3: twenty seventh of November nineteen ninety four, which is actually

844
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 3: kind of wild that like it has like an exact date. Yeah,

845
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 3: Marilyn Manson was arrested after a show for violating the

846
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,439
Speaker 3: Adult Entertainment Code, and police arrested him after being under

847
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 3: the impression that Manson had performed oral sex on a

848
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 3: man while performing on stage, but as it turns out.

849
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: He wasn't.

850
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 3: Rather it was Jack Off Jill vocalist Jessica, who was

851
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 3: apparently wearing a prosthetic penis at the gig, with Manson

852
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 3: stimulating oral sex on the appendage. He was held for

853
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 3: sixteen hours and then released without charge. And that I

854
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 3: think the double confusion of that spread and turned into

855
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 3: him sucking himself off, and then it was how would

856
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 3: he suck himself off?

857
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 4: And it was he got too ribsy, So people were

858
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 4: trying to rationalize what they were they saw.

859
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 3: Exactly, I do think so we live in a time

860
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 3: of like peak rumors peak conspiracies. There's so many it's

861
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 3: hard to pay attention. The really pernicious ones. All seemed

862
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 3: to kind of touch on the idea of revealing someone

863
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: being part of a subculture, something that we part of

864
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 3: society that we don't pay attention to. Whether it's drug users,

865
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 3: or it's trans people, are gay people's it's people who

866
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 3: are considered like outside of the mainstream and like the

867
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 3: really successful rumors seem to work when you claim that

868
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 3: someone well known is actually part of that. And and

869
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 3: and I think there's a kind of fear of the

870
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 3: other required there. There's something like tantalizing, and it's hard

871
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,439
Speaker 3: to prove. It's hard to disprove on the other person.

872
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 3: They can't they can say no, and you just don't

873
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 3: believe them.

874
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 4: It's funny should mention we actually spoke to an expert

875
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 4: about rumors and why we attached to rumors, especially celebrity rumors,

876
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 4: what we get out of them.

877
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I spoke to Charlotte Debaker. She's a researcher

878
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 5: out of Belgium, and her research focuses on gossip and

879
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 5: rumors and kind of the historical and evolutionary purpose they

880
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 5: have served for humans.

881
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 9: Gossip became this system to vicariously learn from the experiences

882
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 9: of other people, but it also became like a reputation

883
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 9: mechanism to control free writers, people that were gonna take

884
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 9: away benefits from you.

885
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 5: And a lot of it's like survival. So it's like

886
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 5: you learn, like, don't do this drug, it's gonna kill you.

887
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 9: And you not only warn others like other animals will

888
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 9: shout out these alarm calls when there's a dangerous animal

889
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 9: or predator coming up. We humans start gossiping about be careful.

890
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 9: You have to be careful about that person. And at

891
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 9: the same time, because gossip has like multiple effects, it's

892
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 9: also slendering the reputation of that person, So you're not

893
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 9: only warning others about the potential danger, but at the

894
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 9: same time you're also giving a punishment to the person

895
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 9: that you're targeting by ruining their reputation.

896
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 5: Then you build a community just based on talking about

897
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 5: these other people, and then there's just like the parasocial element,

898
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 5: which has only gotten more increased with time, where it's

899
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 5: like we become so attached to these people and it's

900
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 5: all we're talking about, you know, Britney Spears or Sierra

901
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 5: or whoever, and it's obviously one sided.

902
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 9: Our stone age minds are not designed by evolution to

903
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 9: perceive these celebrities as no members of our real social network.

904
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 9: So you see them, you start to feel emotional about them.

905
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 9: Some you like very much, some you dislike very much,

906
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 9: and then the mechanisms for why you gossip about real

907
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 9: life people start to transmit to gossiping about these celebrities

908
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 9: as well. You want to slender Taylor Swift versus Blake Lively,

909
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 9: choose a camp and then you start to slender the

910
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 9: one person and then praise the other one or vice versa.

911
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 5: Then, of course, just the way they spread, it's like

912
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 5: Sierra even answering dignifying these questions with like, well, no,

913
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 5: of course, not only just feeds the fire, and that

914
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 5: I think has even gotten worse in more recent times.

915
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting to me, how like if you

916
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 3: look at it on a timeline, like the the nineties

917
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 3: are really bad for this stuff, and the two thousands

918
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 3: still pretty bad, but like it's changing. And then it

919
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 3: does kind of feel like between like twenty ten and

920
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 3: like August twenty fourteen, the start of gamer Gate, there's

921
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 3: a kind of a moment where it actually feels like

922
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 3: things are getting better, Like information is kind of flowing

923
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 3: at a speed where we can like say that's fake,

924
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 3: that's not fake, Like media organizations are interested in debunking stuff.

925
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 3: Debunking doesn't feel tied to a culture war thing yet, Yeah,

926
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 3: and then it flips and it gets progressively worse, and

927
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 3: then after COVID it feels like we are basically back

928
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 3: in the nineties again, and I think a lot of

929
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 3: it has to do with like ephemorality, Like TikTok feels

930
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 3: as ephemeral as nineties TV to me, where you will

931
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 3: see a TikTok and you'll pass you by and you

932
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 3: won't think about it, and then you'll just like be

933
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 3: repeating some insane thing you heard and you won't be

934
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 3: able to find it.

935
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're not referencing it directly, so it's like you're

936
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 5: changing little things.

937
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 3: It's Yeah, I even find myself because I use I

938
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 3: use x still Twitter because it's like you can see

939
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 3: all the bad people on there, and so it's great

940
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 3: for my job. But I have found myself like accidentally

941
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 3: absorbing through osmosis random stuff I'm seeing and then like

942
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 3: saying it out loud to someone there and being like,

943
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 3: what are you talking about. It's there's definitely something about

944
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 3: like not being able to like catch stuff passing you by,

945
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 3: like because like a rumor is effectively like someone just

946
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 3: told you this thing and then it's in your head

947
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 3: and you repeat it without really thinking, and like the

948
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 3: Internet has sort of become that, you know, like it

949
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 3: is just this rumor factory, which I do think to

950
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 3: tie back to the thing at the top, like is

951
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 3: being weaponized by you know, people in the entertainment industry

952
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 3: who know that they can make Reddit accounts and they

953
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 3: can make Instagram accounts and you know, flood the zone

954
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 3: that way.

955
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: Thank you to our friends Grant Irving and Ryan Broderick

956
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: for working with us on this one. It was a

957
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: weird one.

958
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 2: If you want some more weird times about the Internet,

959
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 2: check out their podcast Panic World.

960
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 3: So if you want to follow me, you can find

961
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 3: me as Ryan hays This on Blue Sky or Broadwick

962
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 3: on x or Ryan Hayses on Instagram. Panic World is

963
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 3: Panic World everywhere you'll find it. Just search type into

964
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 3: Little Ai. It's a Panic World up great, so much fun. Yeah,

965
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 3: it's awesome.

966
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 4: See it all together.

967
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 2: No such thing as a production of Kaleidoscope Content. Our

968
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 2: executive producers are Kate Osbourne and mangest Hatti Kudur. The

969
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: show was created by Manny Fidel Nor Friedman and me

970
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 2: Devin Joseph. The theme end credit song is by Manny

971
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 2: mixing my Steve Bone. Audition of music for this episode

972
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: by Zeno Atarelli. Our guest this week was Charlotte the

973
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: Baker visit no such thing, not show to subscribe to

974
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 2: our newsletter.

975
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: You got feedback for the boys, or you got a

976
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: so you want us to answer.

977
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: Email us at Man, email Adevin at gmail dot com,

978
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 2: or if you're in the US, you can leave a

979
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 2: voicemail for us at the number in our show notes.

980
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: Sure to show with a friend and we'll see you

981
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: next

982
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 3: Week's such things