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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece, more bombshells and the Alex A.

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Speaker 1: Murdock double murder trial. Just a moment ago, the judge

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Speaker 1: announced we are going on a lunch break. Now it's

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Speaker 1: timed because the jury is about to hear some sort

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Speaker 1: of a recording, a recording that the judge announced would

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Speaker 1: take about half an hour for the jury to hear.

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Speaker 1: What is it? What will it reveal? Also today a

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Speaker 1: bombshell ruling about financial motive to commit murder. We're waiting

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Speaker 1: for Ann Emerson to come straight out of the courtroom,

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Speaker 1: Senior investigative reporter w C I V. But first I

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Speaker 1: want to go to Eric Bland joining us, high profile

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Speaker 1: lawyer out of Columbia and the lawyer for the glory

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Speaker 1: a Sadderfield family. You all recall that Gloria Sadderfield as

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Speaker 1: the housekeeper and nanny the Murdoch's employed for decades, and

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Speaker 1: I will never forget on the nine on one call

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Speaker 1: after she had fun to her death there at the

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Speaker 1: Murdoch home, how the caller referred to her as the

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Speaker 1: woman that worked for us. Really, the woman raises you,

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Speaker 1: helps raise you, and now she's the woman that worked

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Speaker 1: for us Okay, Eric Bland joining us. Eric, what do

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Speaker 1: you make of what's going on in the courtroom right now? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think we had an explosive day. Nancy. First, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me on. I think Mark Tinsley shows the

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Speaker 1: type of lawyering that we have here in South Carolina.

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Speaker 1: He just tore the lid off of the myth of

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Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch. And with the pressures that he was under

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Speaker 1: on the day of the murders and in the month

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Speaker 1: of June, I think we also saw a little bit

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Speaker 1: of look in New York like we're in a mafia

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Speaker 1: trial because Mark mentioned about Alex tampering with the jury,

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Speaker 1: and then with Missus Shelley, we just heard about witness intimidation.

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Speaker 1: This is the power, Nancy, that the Murdolls had as

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Speaker 1: a grip on these counties for a hundred years. But

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Speaker 1: I think what we've seen is this judge is now

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Speaker 1: seeing who Alex Murdo really is, a true dastardly sociopath,

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Speaker 1: a man that will steal from clients, steal from his

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Speaker 1: law firm, steal from his family, intimidate people. It was

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Speaker 1: a big ruling. Now you've got to be real careful

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Speaker 1: as a prosecutor because now you got something, and does

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Speaker 1: this create an appellet issue when all the four H

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Speaker 1: four B stuff comes in? But I think I called

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Speaker 1: it the Emperor without any clothes. We're not we're seeing

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Speaker 1: who he is any legalise When you say what did

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Speaker 1: you say? Four oh four B, explain that in regular

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Speaker 1: people talk. Yeah, I'm sorry, that's the bad character evidence,

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Speaker 1: admitting all of these potential financial crimes that he's charged

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Speaker 1: with and other financial pressures and what we don't want

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Speaker 1: in our courts, Nancy, is the reason for this rule

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Speaker 1: is we don't want somebody to be convicted of murder

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Speaker 1: just because they're a serial penciling or thief like he is.

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Speaker 1: But the judge showed that they are temporal in time

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Speaker 1: to the murders and that this influenced his actions. It

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Speaker 1: became the motive. So we'll see if these dots can

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Speaker 1: be connected. But it was explosive testimony today to the

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Speaker 1: court by Mark Tinsley and then miss Shelley. Really you

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Speaker 1: could see labored hard about what she had to say.

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Speaker 1: But he was clearly crafting an alibi of saying that

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Speaker 1: he was there at the house for thirty to forty

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Speaker 1: minutes guys, when you hear Eric Bland, who high profile

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Speaker 1: lawyer or joining us from Columbia, South Carolina, describe the

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Speaker 1: financial I'm just calling it miss deeds. But what it

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Speaker 1: is is outright embezzlements, siphoning, stealing from clients and the

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Speaker 1: law firm. He said they were temporal in time. In

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Speaker 1: other words, it was happening at the time of the murders. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it was very important to him to cover that up.

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Speaker 1: It was contemporaneous with the time of the murders. It's

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Speaker 1: not like the state is reaching back for the last

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Speaker 1: twenty years to show a pattern of theft. This was

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Speaker 1: happening right up to the time that Maggie and Paul

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Speaker 1: were gunned down dead. Now, Eric Bland, how do you

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Speaker 1: believe that the state is going to tie millions and

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars that Murdoch stole, including from your clients.

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Speaker 1: How are they going to connect that to the murders

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Speaker 1: as being the You know, sometimes motive isn't clean, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes people kill for reasons that would make us scratch

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Speaker 1: our head, like you really did it for that? But

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Speaker 1: what this was is nothing more than problem solving. As

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Speaker 1: my co hosts on our podcast Cup of Justice lists

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Speaker 1: Farrell says he had a problem, and that is when

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Speaker 1: the law firm is breathing down his neck on misappropriated

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Speaker 1: fees of seven hundred ninety two thousand dollars. And in

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Speaker 1: his head he knows that the sadder Field matter is

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Speaker 1: now being publicly talked about him stealing four point three

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Speaker 1: million dollars. He knows that his entire life is dependent

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Speaker 1: on his law firm revenue, both legitimate and then them

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Speaker 1: what he steals and it would be taken away. The

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Speaker 1: sadder Field case is so important because he can't control that.

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Speaker 1: If that gets to our state bar, he gets disbarred.

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Speaker 1: Exactly what happened when I got the four point three

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Speaker 1: million dollars judgment. So in your mind, where in other

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Speaker 1: people's minds will say, well, this really isn't a reason

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Speaker 1: why you would kill your wife and kid. But remember

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Speaker 1: this guy is a sociopath. Money to him is his god,

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Speaker 1: it's his status in life, and he saw that money

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Speaker 1: trained drying up quickly, and that's why he did what

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Speaker 1: he did. Now, whether the jury is going to believe

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Speaker 1: that's proper motive, that's for another day. But I think

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Speaker 1: what you heard today is the courage of Mark Tinsley,

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Speaker 1: who I've described as nothing but a positive terrorist. You

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Speaker 1: put that person in your house, he will blow it up.

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Speaker 1: He's that dogged for his clients. And miss Smith is credible.

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Speaker 1: I mean she didn't want to testify. You saw the fear,

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Speaker 1: the palpable fear that that woman was showing in court

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Speaker 1: because Alex tried to put the grips to her and said,

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Speaker 1: I was there thirty to forty minutes, right, and she's

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Speaker 1: saying no, only you were only there to ten minutes. However,

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Speaker 1: we took a break. There is a rough draft that

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Speaker 1: was just given to the prosecution of her statement that

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Speaker 1: she gave, and we'll see if she supports that inner

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Speaker 1: statement that she gave in June of twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: But Alex Murdock really is somebody that the world is

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Speaker 1: seeing right now without his clothes on. Harpoo, Lene and

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Speaker 1: Griffin are doing what they can, but his family's got

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Speaker 1: to ask some hard questions. We know where this judge

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Speaker 1: stands on this this man, Nancy, we know where he stands.

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Speaker 1: You know, you were talking about the allegation that Alex

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Speaker 1: Murdock would intimidate witnesses I want to tell you a

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Speaker 1: true story. I had a this was my first mass

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Speaker 1: murder case that I ever handled, and I had a

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Speaker 1: photo array, a photo lineup to show a witness what

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Speaker 1: I thought was going to be a witness. It was

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Speaker 1: late one Sunday night when three murders went down, and

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Speaker 1: only after we had done the photo array, and I

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Speaker 1: was back at the courthouse and I was getting everything

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Speaker 1: together to present to the jury Eric I looked down

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Speaker 1: at my photo array and one photo was about half

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Speaker 1: an inch bigger than the other photos. Can I tell

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Speaker 1: you I remember the moment I realized it's about that

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Speaker 1: much bigger than the other photos because they were what

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Speaker 1: would that be, jacka three by five type photo. They weren't,

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Speaker 1: you know, passport sized photos. And when I put them

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Speaker 1: all together, I saw one was a little bit bigger,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh my stars, And clearly you see

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Speaker 1: the constitutional problem with that. The witness would look at

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Speaker 1: that photo because it's bigger than the others. Well, luckily

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Speaker 1: the witness did not identify that photo and that photo

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Speaker 1: was not the anyway. But still in my mind, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh my stars, I've done something wrong. This is unconstitutional.

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Speaker 1: That photos about a half an inch bigger, so, Eric Bland,

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Speaker 1: I was a nervous wreck until the photo of array

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Speaker 1: was admitted. I mean something that small. I thought that

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Speaker 1: that's wrong doing. What's going to happen is the idea

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Speaker 1: gonna get thrown out. It meant nothing, It meant nothing

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Speaker 1: at all. And now we've got claims that Alex Murdog

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Speaker 1: actually intimidated witnesses. I'm also a lot in today about

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Speaker 1: the Mallory Beach death. We all know that Malory Beach

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Speaker 1: was a young teen girl that was on a boat

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Speaker 1: with Paul Murdog when Murdoch, high as the Kai and

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Speaker 1: drunk as a skunk, insisted on speeding in the dark

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Speaker 1: hours of the night through a tiny channel. I've been there,

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Speaker 1: Eric Bland, and we were going easy, really easy, because

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Speaker 1: there were twists and turns. He was flooring it. He

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Speaker 1: slammed into some cement pilings and Mallory Beach flew off

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Speaker 1: the boat to her death. I mean, doctor Michelle Dupree,

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Speaker 1: you were there. We saw it virtually at the same time,

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Speaker 1: that little channel where Mallory Beach lost her life. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember seeing those cement pilings. No one could have

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Speaker 1: survived that, doctor Michelle Dupree. I do remember that, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: and that was so reckless. When you look at that

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Speaker 1: channel in broad daylight as we did, it doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: as treacherous, but it's still very narrow and the pilings are,

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Speaker 1: as you said, concrete, and to be speeding at night

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Speaker 1: like that is simply horrific. And Eric Bland, I'm building up.

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Speaker 1: I'm laying a foundation right now to my question. For

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Speaker 1: my question to you mentioned that Maggie and Paul's murderers

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Speaker 1: were your words, not mine, problem alving, and that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what I've been thinking, because Maggie was finally for a divorce.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't come out in court yet, I don't think,

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Speaker 1: but she was finally for a divorce. The moment I

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Speaker 1: put my foot in South Carolina, I had people come

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Speaker 1: up and say, Maggie saw a divorce lawyer. He's a

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Speaker 1: piece of crap. She wants a divorce, and so he

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Speaker 1: killed her. It seemed like everybody knew, Yeah, okay, fine,

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Speaker 1: you say whatever you want to, Eric Bland, and Paul,

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Speaker 1: and Paul was the reason. So anyway, regarding her divorce,

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Speaker 1: she would be filing for a forensic accounting to try

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Speaker 1: to find the money for her to get half of

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Speaker 1: all right, and Paul he was the fly in the

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Speaker 1: ointment because Paul is the reason Mallory Beach's family was

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Speaker 1: going after the Murdog Empire. So when you say problem solving,

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Speaker 1: is it really just that cut and dried, get rid

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Speaker 1: of Maggie, no forensic accountant, get rid of Paul. The

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Speaker 1: Malory Beach case will settle. Is that what you meant

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Speaker 1: my problem solving? Yes, I mean, look, it's not a

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Speaker 1: rational reason and when we look at it now, but

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Speaker 1: in the height of his frenzy at that time, that's

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Speaker 1: what he could come up with. Remember, there was one

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Speaker 1: other investigation that hasn't been talked about yet. We had

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Speaker 1: an impaneled grand jury for nine months, and Alex was

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Speaker 1: being looked at for obstruction of justice for what he

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Speaker 1: did inside the emergency hospital room after the Malory Beach case,

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Speaker 1: because he was going from room to room and trying

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Speaker 1: to influence what the boys would say that Paul was

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Speaker 1: not driving the boat. So, in addition to Maggie not

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Speaker 1: signing over the Beach house in a connection with a

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Speaker 1: Palmetto State Bank loan, in addition to being confronted by

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Speaker 1: Jeanie of the seven hundred and ninety two thousand dollar

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Speaker 1: fee with Chris Wilson, in addition to Mark Tinsley, who's

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Speaker 1: just a hurricane force attorney breathing down his neck. Now

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Speaker 1: you have him being investigated on a grand jury scale,

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Speaker 1: you have the sadder field matter that he knows is

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Speaker 1: now publicly written about, and you also have the fact

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Speaker 1: that he's being sued busters being sued in the Malory

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Speaker 1: Beach case. Plus Paul is being criminally charged with duy homicide,

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Speaker 1: which he knows he's going to get at least twenty

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Speaker 1: to thirty years if he lives. That kind of pressure

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Speaker 1: breaks pipes, Nancy, guys, speaking of Alex and Murdad trying

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Speaker 1: to bully the Malory Beach lawyer, take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our cut one. Did you see the defendant there? I did?

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Speaker 1: And did you have a conversation with him about the

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Speaker 1: boat case? I did? All right, relate that conversation with

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Speaker 1: the court police. Yeah, I think I'm not one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent certain that it was a fundraiser either for mister

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Speaker 1: Harnputlan or it was a fundraiser for Lindsey Graham. Alex

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Speaker 1: sees me and he comes across and he gets up

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Speaker 1: close in my face and says, hey, Bo, what's this.

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing about what you're saying. I thought we were friends,

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Speaker 1: And I replied, Eli, we are friends. If you don't

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Speaker 1: think I can burn your house down, and that I'm

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Speaker 1: that I'm not doing everything and I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: do everything, You're wrong. You need to settle this case.

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Speaker 1: The point of it was we're friends. I took it

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Speaker 1: as he tried to intimidate me. He didn't intimidate me

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Speaker 1: and and sort of bully me into backing off. So

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Speaker 1: Eric Bland I was worried about a half inch photo

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Speaker 1: that was too too large, Okay, that somehow I had

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Speaker 1: done something wrong, And here's this guy trying to intimidate

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Speaker 1: lawyers into backing off of a very serious case regarding

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Speaker 1: Malory Beach. Yeah. It's it's um. It's indicative of how

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Speaker 1: Alex comports himself. He has his entire life. He's gone

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Speaker 1: to other and said, look, Bo, let's work this out together.

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Speaker 1: You know, let don't worry about the clients. Will I'll

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Speaker 1: scratch your back. You're scratch my back. Mark Tinsley won

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Speaker 1: playing that game that day. Mark Tinsley told him, I

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Speaker 1: will burn your house down to watch mine smoke, and

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Speaker 1: Alex really learned at that point in time, man Tinsley

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Speaker 1: is going to come at me and he's gonna want

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Speaker 1: to know my finances and if I have to put

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Speaker 1: my finances together, And if you're correct, Nancy, that Maggie

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Speaker 1: was seeing a divorce lawyer, then Maggie's going to get

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Speaker 1: a full picture of his finances. So he was under

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Speaker 1: inordinate amount of pressure. In June of two and twenty one, Jim,

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Speaker 1: Jim and Dick are just watching a different script, a

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Speaker 1: different play than we are. But that's pressure that that

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Speaker 1: man was under, and he tried to problem solve the

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Speaker 1: best way you can. I know. Dick and Jim say, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, he's a thief and he's going to

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Speaker 1: try to cover up his financial crimes and now implicate

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Speaker 1: himself in a murder. But as sociopath and a narcissists

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Speaker 1: think they can control the situation, they think they can

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Speaker 1: talk their way out of it. Nancy, how many narcissists

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Speaker 1: have you prosecuted? Many many that you you scratched your

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Speaker 1: head and said, you really thought you could control the situation.

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Speaker 1: But they do because they're arrogant. Time stories with Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: you know, to Chris mcdunna joining me. He is the

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Speaker 1: director at the Cold Case Foundation, a former homicide detective

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Speaker 1: many many years, hosts of a YouTube channel, the Interview Room.

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Speaker 1: You can find him at Cold Case Foundation dot org

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Speaker 1: and you can find Bland Eric Bland at bland Richter

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Speaker 1: dot com. Chris, nothing would make Meanwell, I take that back.

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Speaker 1: A lot of things would make me matter. But one

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Speaker 1: thing that would make me mad as a wet hen

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Speaker 1: is for someone to come up and try to trade

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Speaker 1: on our familiarity, you know, like, hey, Nancy, no, we're

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Speaker 1: all friends. There are very few quote old friends that

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Speaker 1: are defense lawyers. In fact, very few at all. I

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Speaker 1: could count all defense lawyers that are my friends on

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Speaker 1: one hand because as a prosecutor, I could not blur

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Speaker 1: that line. That would be unethical to me. And for

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Speaker 1: someone to come and go, hey, you know my family,

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Speaker 1: you know me, we're friends, we go back, we went

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Speaker 1: to law school together. B s don't care. So, Chris mcdonnoh,

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Speaker 1: has anyone, after all those years of you being a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective come up and try to parlay their way

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Speaker 1: into some kind of an advantage or a sweet deal,

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Speaker 1: because that's no friend at all to expect you to

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Speaker 1: do the wrong thing. Oh no, yeah, Nancy, three words greed, addiction,

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Speaker 1: and desperation. You know. I we heard testimony where Sled

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Speaker 1: was going to go do an interview and guess what,

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Speaker 1: he filled the room with a room full of lawyers.

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Speaker 1: I've never had a case where I've walked into a

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Speaker 1: room as the door opens and I scan the room

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Speaker 1: and I see that everybody in that room except potentially

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Speaker 1: two people are practicing law And why are they practicing

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Speaker 1: that day in that room to talk about the timeline

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Speaker 1: and all the minutia events that are going on in

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Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch's life. So no, I've never had somebody come up,

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Speaker 1: you know, play a friend to me and then, you know,

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Speaker 1: later on try to you know, play it off. Ann

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Speaker 1: Emerson is joining US senior investigative reporter WCIVY, ABC News

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Speaker 1: and she is the host of an award winning daily podcast,

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Speaker 1: Unsolved South Carolina, The Murdoch Murders, Money and Mystery. And Emerson,

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Speaker 1: great to have you with us. Tell me everything, don't

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Speaker 1: leave anything out go Oh my gosh, I mean, once

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Speaker 1: again we have this trial within a trial going now

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Speaker 1: we've had some resolution earlier today. Of course, the financial

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Speaker 1: crimes are coming in, which it could be a devastating

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Speaker 1: blow to the defense. Right now, it certainly feels like

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Speaker 1: a huge deal. But the judge said, you know, when

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Speaker 1: he came across his ruling, he said, yes, I'm allowing

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Speaker 1: all of these financial charges, all of these crimes that

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Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch is alleged to commit. It's coming in as evidence.

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Speaker 1: And this is the judge said. He found it so

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Speaker 1: intimately connect tom and explanatory. I think it's essential to

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Speaker 1: allow the state to use us in their motivation or

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Speaker 1: for committing what they say, um Alec Murdock did, which

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Speaker 1: was kill his wife and son. So that happened this morning, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: and then Hey, and once we kind of got through

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Speaker 1: that and the jury came back in, Hey and yes,

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Speaker 1: I want to play that for our listeners and viewers

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Speaker 1: right now. It's in our cut eight. But this is

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Speaker 1: a turning point in my mind. A lot has been

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Speaker 1: happening in the courtroom, but when the judge decided to

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Speaker 1: allow this motive evidence in, it's a real game changer

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Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, because we all know that

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Speaker 1: Alex mur Murdoch is a POC. That's a technical legal term,

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Speaker 1: but the jury doesn't know it. The jury doesn't know

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Speaker 1: it because it's Eric Bland pointed out. In our country

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Speaker 1: and our jurisprudent system, a defendant is judged and evaluated

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Speaker 1: on the crime at hand, not based on bad reputation

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Speaker 1: or past bad acts. I want you to hear how

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Speaker 1: the judge reached his decision in our cut eight. Listener.

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Speaker 1: While motive is not a necessary element, the state must

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Speaker 1: prove malice, and evidence of motive may be used to

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Speaker 1: prove it. And in this case, since the identity of

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator is a critical element that must be proven

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Speaker 1: beyond the reasonable doubt, evidence of motive may be used

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Speaker 1: in an attempt to meet that burden. I find that

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Speaker 1: it is so intimately connected with an explanatory of the

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Speaker 1: crime charge under the theory of the state is seeking

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Speaker 1: to prove that proof of it is essential to complete

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Speaker 1: the story and conclude us. The state's motion to admit

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Speaker 1: of other evidence our everdence the other crimes is admitted. Wow,

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Speaker 1: you know earlier you were hearing Eric Bland describing Alex

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Speaker 1: murdog bullying people, intimidating witnesses. Before I go back to

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Speaker 1: Anne Emerson joining us from WCIV, I want you to

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Speaker 1: hear it the way we all heard it, straight out

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Speaker 1: of the courtroom and our cut nine, and you'll recognize

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Speaker 1: this is Alex Murdog is talking about Alex Murlog telling

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Speaker 1: someone he was at the house with her it's his

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Speaker 1: mother's caretaker, that's who it is, for thirty or forty minutes.

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Speaker 1: And the woman is trying to stick to her guns

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Speaker 1: and say that's not true. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: cut nine. He was at the house, and I'm not

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Speaker 1: one hundred said following he was telling you or saying

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Speaker 1: to you that he was at the house when the

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Speaker 1: night of the murders, the night of the murder. Yes,

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Speaker 1: what was he telling you about that he was at

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Speaker 1: the house the night of the murderer, that he'd been

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Speaker 1: in thirty to forty minutes. Did he indicate to you

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Speaker 1: what he wants you to do with that information? No? No, not.

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Speaker 1: What did he say? He did said that he was

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Speaker 1: at the house the thirty to forty minutes. I said,

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Speaker 1: he said, what was he there at thirty to forty minutes?

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Speaker 1: That night, not to Michael call, why are you crying?

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Speaker 1: Who said, because he's a good family, a good family,

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Speaker 1: and I love work getting there and I'm sorry all

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Speaker 1: this happened. You know what I don't like. And there

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Speaker 1: were some hands he I don't like that was crushing

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Speaker 1: to climate When someone who is as rich and educated

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Speaker 1: and well positioned trying to intimidate or bully someone who

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Speaker 1: was not as powerful or as cunning as they are,

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Speaker 1: I don't like this. Lady is reduced to tears on

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Speaker 1: the stand. Did you hear what she says, I've been

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Speaker 1: with his family a long time. I like working with them.

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Speaker 1: I mean too, she along with him that she would

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Speaker 1: lose her job. It was absolutely a moment in that

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Speaker 1: courtroom when she started to break down, and you knew

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Speaker 1: that she had already said that she was only there,

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Speaker 1: that he had only been there for about fifteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes, and had made that very clear in her testimony.

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Speaker 1: And when this came up, and this was at the

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Speaker 1: at the funeral, after the funeral of mister Randolph of

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Speaker 1: Alec's father, that Alec would come up and say, I

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Speaker 1: was there, I was here for thirty or forty minutes

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Speaker 1: and that's what he told her. This was this is

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Speaker 1: a very obviously was a very hard thing for her

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Speaker 1: to deal with. Do you know what the first thing

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Speaker 1: was that she said she did when when he said

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Speaker 1: that though, she called her brother, and you know who

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Speaker 1: her brother is chief of police over at another small town.

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Speaker 1: That was the first reaction she had. And he said,

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Speaker 1: why did you call your brother who is a chief

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Speaker 1: of police, And she said, because there was not something

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Speaker 1: right about this. So, you know, she knew that she

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Speaker 1: had to deal with that information right off the bat

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Speaker 1: because it was it was strange. Other things that were

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Speaker 1: strange that she talks about that I'm sure defense is

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Speaker 1: going to be talking about as well. But the prosecution

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Speaker 1: asked her when he came over that night, what did

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Speaker 1: he have on? He had on a T shirt, he

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Speaker 1: had on his shorts, he had on some Sperry shoes.

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Speaker 1: What did he do? He came and he laid down

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Speaker 1: on or was lying sort of on the bed with

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Speaker 1: his mom for fifteen or twenty minutes. Unusual time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: she said, it was an unusual time for him to come.

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Speaker 1: That she doesn't remember him coming that time of night.

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Speaker 1: And something we've heard before about Alzheimer's patience is that

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Speaker 1: which Miss Libby, from what we understand, was suffering from.

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Speaker 1: That's not a great time of night for Alzheimer's patience.

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Speaker 1: So once again, just another another layer in this or

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Speaker 1: a thread in the rope of the circumstantial evidence of

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Speaker 1: what's going on. But there's more, Nancy. But you tell

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Speaker 1: me if you have a kind of on what happened

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Speaker 1: with the blue tarp that was sort of the next

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Speaker 1: devastating blue. I want to go through what you've already said,

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Speaker 1: and if I could get Christine, because you put up

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Speaker 1: the lady witness the caretaker again, because I guarantee you

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Speaker 1: making a lady like this, a fine lady breakdown in

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Speaker 1: tears on the stand. What you don't want to do

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Speaker 1: is make a witness cry unless they're a flat out

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Speaker 1: liar or they're defendant the defendant. I don't know problem

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Speaker 1: in making the defendant cry on the stand. I love that,

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Speaker 1: But this lady is just trying to do her job

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Speaker 1: and mind her own business. And it's never a good

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Speaker 1: thing when for the defendant, if the jury perceives he

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Speaker 1: has put her in a bad position and is making

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Speaker 1: this lady cry on the stand and call her brother

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Speaker 1: out of fear. Now, Anne Emerson, I played the sound

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Speaker 1: for our listeners, but I want you to tell us

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Speaker 1: in detail what she said, how everyone was reacting. I

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Speaker 1: want to hear the whole thing in technicolor tell me everything.

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Speaker 1: I think it's so important to understand, like exactly what

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Speaker 1: was happening in there. It was kind of one of

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Speaker 1: those moments where time slowed down a little, but for

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Speaker 1: all of us because we're hearing that she had just

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Speaker 1: said that she knew that he had been there for

428
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty minutes, and for him to just sort

429
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: of walk up at that point at a very emotional

430
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: time when they've just lost, uh, you know, the patriarch,

431
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: Randolph Murdoch, and she he from what she said, he

432
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: came up to her and said, I was there for

433
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,239
Speaker 1: thirty or forty minutes. And she didn't say anything when

434
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: that happened, but it was enough to kind of take

435
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: her take her a minute. But when the when the

436
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: when the crowds cleared from that, from that gathering with

437
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: all the family there, she went and called her brother.

438
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: Now what was going on in the courtroom. When she

439
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: told this, it took her a couple of times to

440
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: get it out. As you heard, it took her a

441
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: minute to get it out. You've got Alec the defendant,

442
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 1: you know, sitting at the defense table, and he is

443
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: staring hard at this witness, Miss Shelley. He was staring

444
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: very hard at what she was saying. The family is

445
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: literally leaning in because you know, you've got Buster Murdoch

446
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: and you've got John Marvin who've been at you know, everything,

447
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: Lynn Murdoch. I was watching very closely his sister and

448
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: they were really listening to this, and he knew that

449
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: this felt like new information. The way she was sharing it.

450
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: It made the information that they had heard, but they

451
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: had not heard a woman who was so close to

452
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: that family say it like that. And you know that

453
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: jury that Jerry was paying literally hanging on her every

454
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: word of what she was going to say next. It

455
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: was a it was anand powerful moment. Is this Eric,

456
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: go ahead, Jopan, Eric Bland. You're going to hear after

457
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: lunch the statement that she made to the investigators. And

458
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: I'm sure she may not have in such clear terms

459
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: the thirty to forty minute suggestion. And Alex said, and

460
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: understand why she's got a job she's taking care of

461
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: Miss Libby. Alex is not charged at that time. Alex

462
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: is still a powerful lawyer at that time. Alex and

463
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: his family run the county at that time, So it's

464
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: not beyond seeing why maybe she didn't give such a

465
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: detailed statement to either the police or to the defense

466
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: at that time because Alex wasn't charged. Now that he's charged,

467
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: maybe she has a little bit more personal protection that

468
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: she feels. But I'm not moved if I didn't hear

469
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: her say the thirty to forty minute suggestion in her

470
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: first interview, because Alex is still full of power today,

471
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: he's newter. So that's going to be interesting to see

472
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: what we hear after lunch. Absolutely about you know, that

473
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: is a defense statement. That's a statement that the prosecution

474
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: says that they didn't get. So this is the defense,

475
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: um like handing over thirty minutes or so of a

476
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: statement that they got from this witness. And the way

477
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: I understood it, And tell me if I'm wrong, But

478
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: the way I understood it was that the prosecution didn't

479
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: have this in their discovery, which I think is going

480
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: to be a bonu intention for sharp They did not.

481
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: They did not. It would be like John Gotti's lawyer,

482
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: Bruce Cutler coming up to the witness since and trying

483
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: to get a statement. And John Gotti hasn't been accused yet.

484
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you're going to be a little bit circumspect

485
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: of what you're going to say. And she viewed the

486
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: same way that somebody in New York City would view

487
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: John Gotti. He's that big Ann Emerson. Are you saying

488
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: that the defense attorney approached Miss Shelley Smith, Michelle Shelley

489
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: Smith before Alex Ronog was charged to get a statement

490
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: from her. Is that what you're saying. I don't know

491
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: when the statement was taken. I don't know if Eric

492
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: caught that. But I haven't heard exactly when the statement

493
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: was given to the defense. But what we know that

494
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: it was given and this is new information at least

495
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: that's the way they reacted, the prosecution, the States reacted.

496
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: I can't understand you. Just let me just make it

497
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: really simple. Do we know who took the statement from

498
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: Michelle Shelley Smith? Who took the statement? Defense? Okay, did

499
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: the defense hand the statement over to the government? No? No,

500
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: Just now, from what we understand, we want you to

501
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: hear what we're talking about it's our cut nine Christine,

502
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: if you could play that one more time. And what

503
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: this is about is Alex Murdog telling Miss Michelle Shelley Smith, Oh, yes,

504
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: I was there forty minutes the night of the murders.

505
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, you were listen and what did

506
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: he did? He was at the house And I'm not

507
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: one hundred and following he was telling you or saying

508
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: to you that he was at the house when um

509
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: did night of the murders, night of the murder. Yes,

510
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: what was he telling you about that he was at

511
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: the house the night of the murderer, that he'd been

512
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: in thirty to forty minutes. Did he indicate to you

513
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: what he wants you to do with that information? No? No,

514
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: what did he say? He did say that he was

515
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: at the house for thirty to forty minutes, I said,

516
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: he said, what was he there at thirty to forty

517
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: minutes that night? Not to Michael came, why are you crying?

518
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: He said, because he was a good fami, a good

519
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: family and I love work getting there and I'm sorry

520
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: all this happened. And there you see this lady witness

521
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: on the stand saying quote, I'm sorry all this happened.

522
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: She is apologizing. He's the one that's accused of double murder.

523
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: She's not accused of anything, but this lady is crying

524
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: and she's up on the stand apologizing crime stories with

525
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, you heard Anne Emerson joining us from

526
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: wcv ABC talking about a blue tarp. I want you

527
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: to hear it just the way we heard it in

528
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: the courtroom, and is our cut ten and then we'll

529
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: go to Anne and let her explain and get doctor

530
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree to follow up. Guys, take a listen to

531
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: our cut ten about the blue tarp, get a blue

532
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: suthing his ann It was like a talk that get

533
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: put on the car, you kick your car? Covered up

534
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: big thing? Yeah, blue? And was he holding it like this?

535
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 1: That's not Mister Murdock came in your alma residence that morning,

536
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 1: sister Stakes two twenty three. Do you recognize that? Yes?

537
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: What is that upstairs? Going upstairs? And is that where

538
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: he went Alex Murton all that morning, Yes, carrying some

539
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 1: blue thing. Did you ever see that blue thing unfolded

540
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: when you were that morning or you saw him carrying it?

541
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: It was unfolded? Okay, where'd you see it in the

542
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: bed room when you came back the next day? Was

543
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: that there? No, it was? It was gone, yes and

544
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: so And did you see Alex Gornol leave after you

545
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: went upstairs? Do you know what he did upstairs? No?

546
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: I know that morning this morning when you first saw

547
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: him at six thirty, did you observe anything about his face?

548
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: And he on his face thinking, I get a little colored,

549
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 1: a little blue color something, and man I apologized, attack

550
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: alack a little bruise or something. Where was it? Because

551
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,240
Speaker 1: above forty year out too and Emerson joining us wuc

552
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: IV and what happened, well, you know she talks about

553
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: what happened about three days after Randolph Murdoch's funeral. They

554
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: she's described it like the tents were still up in

555
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: the yard so early morning, it was like six thirty

556
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: in the morning. When she hears a knock at the

557
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: bedroom window. He doesn't do what he did the last

558
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,439
Speaker 1: time when he came on June seventh, when he came

559
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: in um and actually kind of came to the door

560
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: and said let me in. He went to a bedroom door,

561
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: knocks on the window. She comes around, lets him in,

562
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: and he said he's carrying it, and the way they

563
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: sort of described it is this blue tart vinyl material

564
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: kind of bundled up and he's holding it like this

565
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: like a baby. I don't know if you can see it,

566
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: but like holding it like this is the way they

567
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: talked about it, to the point where you know, she

568
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: was getting down from the stand holding like where it was,

569
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: looking at the blue tarp. There was a lot of

570
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: action going on in the courtroom, and I've seen it

571
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: from both sides honestly, where they bring the witnesses down

572
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: to really kind of show what they're talking about. But

573
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: they do that, but there is also with this blue

574
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: tarp that he goes up to a bedroom. Now Defense

575
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: gets a little bit, digs a little deeper with Miss

576
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: Shelley and asks her, you know, how much have you

577
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: been upstairs? And trying to I think poke holes and

578
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: exactly where she saw this. But what we understand is

579
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: this blue tarp had gone into a bedroom that she

580
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: doesn't really go up to very often because she's always

581
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: with Miss Libby downstairs. But he goes he puts this

582
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: blue tarp over Miss Libby's retirement rocker, like an old rocker,

583
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: and then the next day has gone, so there's this

584
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 1: mystery around that. There's also a mystery around what car

585
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: he was driving when he came in and left and

586
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: then came back. It seems like we're and I've asked

587
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: the other reporters that we were sitting around, I was like,

588
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 1: did we get a clear idea of like these trucks

589
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: and the vehicles that they're talking about that we're moving

590
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: in and out because we heard there was a white

591
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 1: truck that day and then there was a black truck

592
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: that day. We also heard that an ATV, like an

593
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: all trained vehicle they use on these farms and out

594
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: in the country had also had been moved on on

595
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,720
Speaker 1: this property at Almeda. This is where alex parents, Libby

596
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: and Randolph Murdock lived. So we need to find out

597
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: a little bit more after lunch about what's going on

598
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: with this truck and the vehicles and how it ties

599
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: into what they think happened with this blue tart. Joining

600
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: me is doctor Michelle Dupree, forensic scientist, medical examine or,

601
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: former detective and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Doctor

602
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: Dupree explained the significance of the blue tart that, according

603
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: to Miss Michelle on the stand. Alex Murlog brought over

604
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 1: to his mother's home the night of the murders. Nancy.

605
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: There's a couple things interesting about this. First of all,

606
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: she said that this was very early for him, that

607
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: he's never in her three years ten year working there

608
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,479
Speaker 1: come to visit this early. And he's carrying this blue

609
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 1: tarp or whatever it may be. There is some significance

610
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: because during the investigation a blue item was found with

611
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: significant gunshot residue on it. Now is that the same

612
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: item or not? I'm not sure that we really know.

613
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,919
Speaker 1: But what other blue item could there be? And Emmer said,

614
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: I thought she said he never came over that late

615
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: at night. Well, that's true, that true, That's what That's

616
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: what they talked about was. She said she hadn't seen

617
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: him come that late when he came on June seventh,

618
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 1: that he normally did not come that late, so these

619
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: were unusual times. And she also said that early visiting

620
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: his mom. You know another thing about the blue tarp.

621
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: Isn't it true? An Emerson that gunshot residue was allegedly

622
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 1: found on the blue she thought a blue tarp. Tell me,

623
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: tell me about the blue tarp. Well, that's what the

624
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: prosecution has been talking about. And there's been a lot

625
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: of like talking amongst them, you know, about this tarp

626
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: versus a raincoat? Was it a raincoat, because of course

627
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: we know the weather was really bad the night of

628
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,959
Speaker 1: the murders, But the blue tarp is what they seem

629
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: to be kind of sticking with right now, and that, yes,

630
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: that's what we've been told early on in this trial,

631
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: as they as they were going through what kind of

632
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: evidence that they were going to present, they certainly spoke

633
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: about this blue tarp with with gunshot residue that they

634
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: found on the inside. And now we need to find

635
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: out where they actually got that blue tarp. We've heard

636
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: that it was in a closet, but we've got we've

637
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 1: got to hear more from the prosecution about how they're

638
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: going to use us now when she describes it, obviously

639
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: there was a lot of intimating going on in that

640
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: courtroom that there was something wrapped up. That's where the

641
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 1: prosecution was going with was that he was something was

642
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 1: wrapped up like a rifle. They even said it once,

643
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: they said was it like a rifle? And I think

644
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: they objected to that, But the defense was like you

645
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: know they're going to argue. They're arguing the semantics of

646
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: what it looks like to see a blue tarp in

647
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: somebody's arms wrapped up. So I think that's what they're

648
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: working with right now to Eric Bland, high profile lawyer

649
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: joining us out of South Carolina. Eric, in my mind,

650
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: in every case I've ever tried, there's always that one

651
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: moment when everything changes, and I truly believe that Michelle

652
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: Shelley Smith was that moment because I believe that this

653
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: one witness is so credible and so believable that it

654
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: changes everything to the state's benefit. Yeah, she covered a

655
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: lot of bases for the state. She's possible Gunshoy residue,

656
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: she's covering the power of the murdles, she's covering the

657
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: alibi creation by Alex. But what she really conveys is

658
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: the intimidation factor a witness that you saw, the palpable

659
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: fear and anxiety that she was under just talking about them,

660
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: even at a time where Alex is behind bars and

661
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: has been behind bars for fourteen months. So this is

662
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: how this happens. You know it's going to be interesting

663
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: Nancy on the drug issue, because I heard one of

664
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: the experts said addiction. The state can either use the

665
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: drugs to their advantage by saying Alex was under opioids

666
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: which created a heightened sense of anxiety and lack of

667
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: rational thought. I for one, don't believe it because I

668
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: don't think he would be able to have appeared in court,

669
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: gone to Thanksgiving dinners with his family, you know, being

670
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: partner's meetings and client meetings. He would have fallen asleep

671
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: or would have exhibited some kind of behavior that would

672
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: have clude people in that he was on drugs. So

673
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: I think the drugs are red herring issue, but it

674
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: can be used by the state to say that he

675
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: wasn't rational when he did it. But this witness, I

676
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: think Tony Satterfield, when he comes on now and testifies

677
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: in court and Mark Tinsley, I may come on to

678
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: just talk about the confession of judgment that we got.

679
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: This is looking at Alex in a whole new light.

680
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 1: He's no longer you know, the shine on the Venerable

681
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: Dome is starting a dull a little bit. That's what

682
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: we're seeing. I think it's true too. I think saying

683
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: that came out in court with this witness on the

684
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 1: stand and Emerson is that this witness. Didn't she call

685
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: Alex rdog? Didn't she say he was acting very fidgety?

686
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 1: He yes, I was gonna say, yeah, absolutely, she talked

687
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: about how he was fidgetty. The defense immediately as soon

688
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: as they got into cross with that, they tried to

689
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: like talk about how that's just his personality, how he's

690
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: always kind of on the go and moving. But yes,

691
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 1: she absolutely talked about how he looked fidgetty that night

692
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: and that can't that can't be good. But you know,

693
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: I want to tell you one other thing about intimidation

694
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: that the prosecution tried to play up as well when

695
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: they were when they were when they were when she

696
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: was testifying, she talked about how she was getting married.

697
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: And this happened at the same time he said about

698
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: the I was there thirty or forty minutes, you know,

699
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 1: talking to Shelley at after that funeral, and she he said,

700
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: so you're getting married soon, and she said yeah, and

701
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: he goes, you know, weddings are expensive, and she goes,

702
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: I know, and he was, he said, she testified that

703
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: he was like, well, you know, he's I'll be helping

704
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: out with that, you know. Basically I'm gonna help. I'm

705
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: gonna help with that with that way. I know how

706
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: expensive this wedding is, and she took it for the goodness.

707
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: And she even said at one point she thought Alec

708
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: Mardoc was a good person. It was their relationship. But

709
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: the fact that she brought it up in this testimony,

710
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: I think it is important to bring up another layer

711
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,919
Speaker 1: of control and power and intimidation is what the same

712
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: screwing a bribe good you try? It handles so many

713
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: homicide investigations. I know the defense is going to try

714
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: to swing this fidgety description to their benefit, but possibly

715
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: saying yeah, he had an addiction. I don't think it's

716
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,959
Speaker 1: ever good for a jury to find out you're high,

717
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: You're high as a kite all the time. I don't

718
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: think that ever helps, do you not at all? And

719
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: in fact, what the jury's also going to hear the

720
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: type of addiction, if it's an opioid, that's actually going

721
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: to slow down his uh, you know, his internal symptomology,

722
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: which is going to lead us back to that interview

723
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: in the car the night of that incident. You know,

724
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: I look at Alex Murdoch as a very good I

725
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 1: would describe a three card Monty player, right, remember that

726
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 1: old game where you you know, find find the right card.

727
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: He is a master manipulator, and he's put so much

728
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: emotional stress upon that witness that we just saw. However,

729
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: his undoing is going to be a couple of things

730
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: that he brought out out of his own mouth the

731
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: night in that car. A couple of them. One is

732
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: the fact that he rolls his son over after witnessing uh,

733
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: you know, allegedly body parts next to the body. And

734
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: what does he introduce into the conversation a cell phone?

735
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: Why is that relevant? I think we all can understand

736
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: that he picked it up and he was going to

737
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: do something with it and then change his mind and

738
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: put it down. Well, that just kind of ties into

739
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: the investigative, you know, evidence that we heard about that

740
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: cell phone you screen changing distance, and it also brings

741
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: relevance to the fact that Maggie's phone is different. But

742
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: the gun aspect of this is the shotgun that he

743
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: was holding when law enforcement came onto the scene that night.

744
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: There he now puts his fingerprints on it. He gives

745
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: a reason for it. But that also is another three

746
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: card Monty play in my opinion, because now the defense

747
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: can argue, look this guy, you know, he told you

748
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: he had a shotgun. He told you he picked up

749
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 1: the cell phone. Well, isn't it interesting that now we

750
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: have this blue tarp with gunshot us to do on it,

751
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: and there is one gun mission. So I think the

752
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 1: minutia details here again, Nancy, are going to be crucial

753
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: for the witnesses to continue to testify to and the

754
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: jury to Here, Doctor Michelle do pretty joining me out

755
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 1: of that jurisdiction. She's joining us from South Carolina forensic pathologists,

756
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: medical examiner, former detective, and author. All this evidence we're

757
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: amassing regarding Alex Murlog's opioid addiction. Explain what type of

758
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: medications that would be in street talk, and also how

759
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: an opioid addiction would affect you. Would you be fidgety

760
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: or would you be lethargic? Nancy, that's a very good question.

761
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: It's a very good observation because an opioid is a

762
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: central nervous system depressant, which means that it slows things down.

763
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: So we're going to see him instead of beg we're

764
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: going to see him be much more like he was

765
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: the night of the interview, taking things more slowly, and

766
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: he's going to be thinking a lot, probably and again

767
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: not in a fidgety sense. If that was his normal

768
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 1: behavior at fidgeting, then we're going to see him not

769
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: do that so much if he's on opioids. The other

770
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: thing is if he has had an opioid addiction for

771
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 1: such a long time, he is not going to look

772
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: as healthy as he does. You would never look at

773
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: him and suspect that he had an opioid, a long

774
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: term chronic opioid addiction. Why do you say that because

775
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: you're going to have a thinner appearance, You're not going

776
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: to appear as healthy. It is an addiction and it

777
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: causes physical changes to your body. My concern is why

778
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: haven't they mentioned his gambling issues. We know that judges,

779
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: attorneys people in the Low Country ever since I can remember,

780
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: when court is in session they all go over to

781
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: Ladies Island and have big time Las Vegas style gambling games. Okay,

782
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: I hope you're not speaking of that from firsthand witness account.

783
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: But common names of opioids are oxy which can be oxycodone, vicodin, norco, laura,

784
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: tib percocet, trauma dog. Those are types of pills that

785
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: have a high opioid content, and if you want to

786
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: wonder what would opioids do to you? Has everybody in

787
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: this room seeing the Wizard of Oz? Yes? No, yes, Okay.

788
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: Remember when Dorothy was trying to get to the Emerald

789
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: City and she came across a poppy field and she

790
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 1: became sleepy, and the dog got sleepy, and the ten

791
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 1: men guy, everybody fell asleep, I think, but the dog. Anyway,

792
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: long story short, opioids slow you down. So why was

793
00:50:55,120 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 1: Alex murdog so fidgetty? According to and in my opinion,

794
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: the best witness that's been put on the stand bar none,

795
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: the housekeeper of the mom Michelle Shelley Smith, I think

796
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: has been the best witness that the state has put

797
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 1: up so far. Why, according to her, was he finchety

798
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: if he's on opioids, because he just committed a double murder.

799
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: And that leads me to the next thing. And Emerson.

800
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: She described what he was wearing when he got there

801
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: was a white T shirt and the shorts. So what

802
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: happened to his clothes? And Emerson well, exactly, I mean,

803
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: what the prosecution is teeing up for us is that

804
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: he changed his clothes because we see in the snapchat

805
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: video from earlier in that day that's already been admitted

806
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: into evidence. We've already looked at it. It's he's got

807
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: on a totally different outfit and this is a couple

808
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: of hours beforehand, an hour beforehand, So this is to

809
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: completely change his clothes. They asked him when he got

810
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: you know, they both use it for their benefit. One

811
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: is saying his clothes are clean as a whistle is

812
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,919
Speaker 1: what the defense is saying, and the prosecution saying that's

813
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: because he changed his clothes. So you've got these two storylines.

814
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: It's going to be very interesting to see how the

815
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: jury reads it. But right now, that's why he's you know,

816
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: every time we see him at any point during that day,

817
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: someone's asking what did he have on what did the

818
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: clothes look like, and was there blood on it? From

819
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: what we understand, Shelley did not see any blood on

820
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: his clothes. So Eric Bland, what did he do with

821
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: his clothes? Well that's the question. You know, are they

822
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: still at Mozelle. I've been there. There's half the acreage

823
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: is swamp. I know that they have had divers in

824
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 1: there and they had divers at all me to. You know,

825
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: he knows that country better than anybody else that country area,

826
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 1: So it could be somewhere we just don't know, or

827
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: somebody could help them get rid of them. Okay, Now,

828
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: Eric Bland, you're the renowned attorney out of South Carolina,

829
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: not me. Now, when I say, Eric Bland, where do

830
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: you think the clothes are? I'm expecting a little bit

831
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: more than I don't know. I mean, based on the terrain,

832
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: based on Mozelle. Yeah, I know he got rid of them,

833
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: but is there a body of water? Is there a ravine?

834
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: Do you I don't see him taking the time to

835
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: bury them somewhere because he was trying to establish that

836
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:33,919
Speaker 1: alibi at his mother's house. So thinking through it, I've

837
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 1: been on the property and there is tremendous areas of

838
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: swamp where that where the guns and those clothes can

839
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 1: be buried and they'll never be found. I've been in

840
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: that country area there. There are a lot of nooks

841
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: and crannies where and he could have been on his

842
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: way to all me to after showering and cleaning himself off,

843
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: that he temporarily hid this stuff. Look, Yellowstone has the

844
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: train station there somewhere in in Moselle area there where

845
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: there's something similar. Oh yeah, he got rid of it,

846
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: but where and would he have risked going back to

847
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 1: the hiding location to secure the clothes, get the clothes

848
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 1: and then destroy them such as burn them. We also

849
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 1: don't have a murder weapon. That's not the end of

850
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: the world for the prosecution to an Emerson joining US

851
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 1: senior investigative reporter wc IV ABC, and I heard the judge. Wow,

852
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: I'm saying it overhead earlier of Moselle. It's huge. Those

853
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 1: clothes could be anywhere. I understood that there is There's

854
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: going to be half an hour for the jury to

855
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: listen to something. What is it they're going to hear, Well,

856
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: the journeys to hear what Miss Shelley, this witness that

857
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: was on the stand. They are going to listen to

858
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: what the defense when they interviewed her. And this is

859
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 1: going to be part of um. This is going to

860
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 1: be going into evidence said. But the journey needs to

861
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: hear this conversation that the defense had with Shelley Smith.

862
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: This is what the prosecution was talking about just before break.

863
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,359
Speaker 1: They were like, we don't know about this. We don't

864
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: have this, it's not discovery. Why not we need to

865
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: copy right now? And the judge totally agreed, he said absolutely,

866
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: of course. I mean this was extraordinary because this is

867
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: what the defense was up in arms about five months ago,

868
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: that they weren't getting all the discovery in a timely fashion.

869
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: So it was a surprise for all of us to

870
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 1: hear that this hadn't been put in. But there's something else,

871
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,399
Speaker 1: and I don't want to take it too off track,

872
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 1: but there's a conversation that was had that they are

873
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: all arguing over about admitting. And this was a conversation

874
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: right before that June tenth interview with law enforcement that

875
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 1: John Griffin was at, Ronnie Crosby, Mark Ball, these are

876
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: all these are attorneys at his at Murdock's former law firm,

877
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 1: who are also close friends John Marvin buster Randy. Anyways,

878
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: there was this whole group of people that had come

879
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 1: together to support Alec Murdoch right before he was going

880
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: to be giving the second interview to law enforcement. The

881
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 1: state is trying to get that conversation. Witnesses to that

882
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: conversation entered in. We heard about it on Friday as

883
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 1: sort of this court Cliffhanger. We hear it today that

884
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: we're still working toward getting this conversation that we haven't

885
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: heard before law enforcement got it. What did Alec tell

886
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 1: these people that they did not want to have admitted

887
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 1: or that they're concerned about? What did Alex say to

888
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: Ronnie Crosby, to Mark Ball, to these friends that were

889
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: supporting them, and who was actually standing there. It's going

890
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: to be it's gonna be important. It may just be

891
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 1: digging a deeper hole as far as his alibi goes

892
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: that he was taking a nap up at the house.

893
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: That's where we're all kind of thinking. But we don't know.

894
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: We don't know what he said to these folks. So

895
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 1: that's why they want it entered into evidence. And it

896
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: looks like I think they're getting it. You know. Eric

897
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: Bland joined me, high profile lawyer out of Columbia. This

898
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: is a real constitutional conundrum as I see it, because

899
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: here you've got the defense taking a statement from a

900
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: state's witness and then not handing it over to the

901
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: state prior to trial. If the state had done that,

902
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: the entire audio, the entire statement would be ruled out.

903
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 1: The jury would never hear it because the state is

904
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: under a duty to hand over the evidence to the

905
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 1: defense to test and examine far prior to trial. So

906
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: the problem is if the state seeks to exclude it

907
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: because they never got it before trial to examine, then

908
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: if there's a conviction, there's going to be a reversal

909
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: because it could be argued the defense was inept. They're

910
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: usually in criminal cases, as you know, the burden is

911
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: on the state to produce inculpatory and exculpatory material to

912
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 1: the defense. Yep. The defense doesn't have that same burden

913
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 1: like in a civil case where there's mutuality of discovery

914
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: obligations where one side gets to ask for all the

915
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: stuff on the other side, and similarly vice versa. It's

916
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: a little different in a criminal case. So there may

917
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: be reasons why that was not turned over to the state,

918
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: but there's not the mutuality of obligation to They didn't

919
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: want the state to have it, that's why it wasn't

920
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: turned over. That said, the state has an entirely different burden.

921
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: Their burden is to do the right thing and get

922
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: a true verdict. We're about to have straight back in

923
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: the courtroom. I'm hearing that the lunch period, it's almost up.

924
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 1: The jury is going to be filing back in their seats.

925
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 1: I don't want to miss that. We'll have the Eagle

926
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: lay out for the conversation, and Emerson's telling us about

927
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: the conversation. The state wants in and the defense wants

928
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: to keep it out. I can only imagine what that is. Guys,

929
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: let's go back in the courtroom. Goodbye friend,