1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number on Tannis Show. 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: We're joined by Todd Mead, who's going to share this 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: how he's managed to kill big mature bucks all the 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: way from the Big Woods Mountains of New York to 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: the public lands of the Midwest. All right, welcome to 9 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by sit Gear, 10 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: and today we're joined by Todd Mead, a hunter hamling 11 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: from the great State of New York. And Todd brings 12 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: some really interesting perspectives to the table as a deer hunter, 13 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: as he's someone who has successfully hunted white tails in 14 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: some wildly different situations. He's had success both in the 15 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: Big Woods mountainous terrain of New York's at Arondic Mountains 16 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: and the flat agricultural lands of the Midwest. And he's 17 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: done it all d I y and almost exclusively on 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: public land as well. So obviously this guy knows something 19 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: about hunting white tails, and I think we all can 20 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 1: learn a thing or two from him. So that said, today, 21 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to grill Todd all about his experiences in 22 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: both of these different types of situations. We're going to 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: dive deep into what it's like to hunt in the 24 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: big woods or mountainous situations like you might find in 25 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: the Northeast, and exactly how to find and kill mature 26 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: bucks in those areas. And then we're also going to 27 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: explore how Todd has been able to have equally as 28 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: impressive success on his cross country white tailed trips to 29 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: the Midwest and public land situations like that. So all 30 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: in all, it's going to be a very interesting conversation 31 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: and I think a perfect way to kick off October. 32 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: But before we get tied on the line, we need 33 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: to do two things first. This is a little, a 34 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: little bit kind of special here. Earlier this week October 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: four marked the three year anniversary of the day that 36 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: I quit my full time job and went in on 37 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: wired to hunt. Three years. It's uh, it's pretty hard 38 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: to believe that this much time has passed and that 39 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: I've actually been able to do this for that long 40 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: without the whole thing crashing in around me. But but remarkably, 41 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: I've been blessed with this incredible three year journey so far, 42 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: and to be honest, you know it was it was 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: scary as hell when I quit my job back in thirteen, 44 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: and many of you know that story. But I had 45 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: a great job with a big tech company and life 46 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: was solid and safe and going as planned. But but 47 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: that kind of life and job it wasn't where my 48 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: heart was. And I knew that that year until thirteen. 49 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: I finally had to make that decision. I had to 50 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: finally decide to chase that dream, to listen to my heart, 51 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: to wave goodbye to that safe, solid, secure and instead 52 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: of embrace the risk and the opportunity of doing what 53 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: I love for a living. And now here we are 54 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: three years later, and I think you know by far 55 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: the biggest reason why this whole thing is still going. 56 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: It's because of you, guys. It's because wire Hunt readers 57 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: and viewers and listeners have allowed me to share my 58 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: stories and my failures and my lessons learned. And you've 59 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: stuck with me through it all. You've you've listened to 60 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: the podcast and you share the articles, you've given me feedback, 61 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: you've given props to the companies have helped us, and 62 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: so so much more. And it's because of you that 63 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: I'm getting to enjoy this three year anniversary today. So 64 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you, 65 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: thank you. I can't say it enough, but I hope 66 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: in some small way you can realize just how appreciative 67 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: I am and how much the wire dunk community really 68 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: you all mean to me. You guys are the best. 69 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: I appreciate you and thank you. Now to the second 70 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: thing we need to do before calling Todd, we need 71 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: to thank another person will not personal company in this case, 72 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: that being Sick of Gear for sponsoring this podcast. They 73 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: were actually the very first company ever to support wired 74 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: Hunt way back and I think two thousand and ten. 75 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: They start off, and they've really been instrumental in keeping 76 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,839 Speaker 1: this podcast and website afloat. So as we do every week, 77 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: we've got a sick story to share, and if you recall, 78 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: in last week's episode, we began with a story from 79 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: sick employee Alex Tannembaum, who was relaying the kind of 80 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: experience of one his of his very first white tailed 81 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: bow hunts, and when we left off, he was in 82 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: the midst of a very close encounter that left him 83 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: with some interesting lessons learned about thirty five yards out 84 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: they did, they kind of you know, made a turn. 85 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: Um it might have been because I made some noise. 86 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: It's hard to say. And uh so I drew and 87 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: uh and then they were all three of them looking 88 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: like straight at me and like oh geez and uh 89 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: and I still even have haven't even made a pick 90 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: like which one should I shoot, you know, like I 91 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: haven't even thought that far I had. I'm just like 92 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: I'm drawn and I got year and I'm like, uh 93 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: that one and uh and you know, put my pen 94 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: on and like like nothing feels good about this shot, 95 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: like like not a single thing. Like I'm just like 96 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: I'm shaking. I'm I I just I got nothing. And 97 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: but I didn't want to let down because for some reason, 98 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: like that felt like I would be like I don't know, 99 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: I I think I was just still a pretty new 100 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: hunter and like that idea of letting down when I 101 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: had an opportunity to shoot, like I just didn't. It 102 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: just seemed like maybe that wasn't like a like a 103 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, a virtuous thing to do. Um, you know, 104 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: that wasn't like the that wasn't what a real hunter 105 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: would do. And so instead, um, I raised my bow 106 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: up like way the heck over him and just touched 107 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: off and just shot way over their backs. And because 108 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: then I could say, oh yeah, it was a clean 109 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: miss um you know. And uh so that was you know, 110 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: in in that like kind of you know, flood of 111 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: totally illogical thinking and emotional thinking, that was that was 112 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: what I did. Um. So, So, knowing what you know now, 113 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: would you have done anything differently in that situation? Yeah? 114 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: I mean I guess looking back at it, if I 115 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: could have changed the outcome, Um, if I could have 116 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: done something differently, like knowing what I know now, but 117 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: you know the me of back then standing in that stand, um, 118 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: I think I'd have just counseled that that Alex of 119 00:06:54,640 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: years ago to to have like the the the comfort 120 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: and the self assurance that like letting down it was okay, 121 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: that I didn't need to let an arrow go to 122 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: make the story better or to make to to have 123 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: to to sound more impressive to to other people. Um, 124 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: you know that I they really they to have more 125 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: confidence in in in my personal ethic. Um. That's That's 126 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: what I would say to to that kid who was 127 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: standing in that stand that that morning, and that right there, 128 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: my friends, was a sick story. If you'd like to 129 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: learn more about Sick of Gears technical hunting apparel, you 130 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: can visit sick of gear dot com. And now let's 131 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: get back to the show and give Todd me to call. 132 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 1: All right now with us on the line is Todd Mead. 133 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to show. Todd, thanks for having me Mark. I 134 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: appreciate you asking me to be a guest on your show. Yeah, absolutely, 135 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: I'm excited to chat. It's been a little while. We 136 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: we actually, well, heck, I don't know when I first 137 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,119 Speaker 1: started hearing about you, maybe through social media or something, Todd, 138 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: but as you know, we got to chat quite a 139 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: bit this spring when we were working. I was working 140 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: on a story for magazine where we actually featured you 141 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,679 Speaker 1: in that, and I got to learn a lot about 142 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: how you're hunting and the kind of success you're having, 143 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: and to be honest, I was I was very impressed. 144 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: So I knew eventually we had to get you on 145 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: here and share what you're doing with the audience. So 146 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: I'm excited to do that now. Um, but I suppose 147 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: before we dig into the house and the what's of 148 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: your hunting? Can you just tell us a little bit 149 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: about your background as a hunter and kind of how 150 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: you got to where you are today. Sure you bet. 151 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: Uh right now, I'm forty seven years old and I 152 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: live in what they call the Adirondack Park of upstate 153 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: New York, and it's approximately five hours from New York 154 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: City in an hour and a half of south of Montreal, Canada. 155 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: And it's a pretty mountainous region. Most people that are 156 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: familiar with New York don't know that New York has mountains, 157 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: and the Adirondack Park is uh. It's approximately six million 158 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: acres and about fifty two per cent of that is 159 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: privately owned, so the other forty eight percent is open 160 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: to the public for hunting, outdoor activities, et cetera. UH. 161 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 1: In the area in the Adirondack Park, it's it was 162 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: declared forever wild by Teddy Roosevelt, and UH he decided 163 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: that you could never have motorized vehicles in there. Um 164 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: you could, you you wouldn't ever be able to do 165 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: any logging on the public land. So in some ways 166 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: it's really hard to hunt. And that's what I'm faced 167 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: with because it's a mountainous area and there aren't a 168 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: lot of deer. Like in the area that I hunt, 169 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: there are approximately one to five deer per square mile, 170 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: so finding the deer that could be a really difficult task, 171 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: and it's different from year to year depending on the feed. 172 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: So originally I got my start when I was a kid. 173 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: My father was raised on a dairy farm, and he 174 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: never really had a lot of time to hunt. As 175 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: he got older, the dairy farm kind of went under 176 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: and then he, uh he went to work in a factory. 177 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: So when he started working in the factory, he had 178 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: a little more time and he began to hunt. So 179 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: he had a really late start. He was he was 180 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: in his early twenties when he started hunting, and uh, 181 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: since since he lived on the base of the Adirondack Park, 182 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: he decided to hunt in the Adirondex because it was 183 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: easy to hunt close to home. So I mean that's 184 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: pretty much where I started. He he was in his 185 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: early twenties, which is when I was born. So my 186 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: dad and I are really close in age. He's only 187 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: twenty one years older than me, so a lot of 188 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: people think that we're brothers, and I kind of like 189 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: it that way because my dad's also my best friend. 190 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: So when I was little. He brought me into the 191 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: woods and he he introduced me to hunting, but he 192 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: never really forced me to go, and he always asked 193 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: me if I wanted to go. And I never really 194 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: took a liking to hunting. I always wanted to go 195 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: fishing instead. I wanted to be uh. I wanted to 196 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: be like a die hard fisherman. I'd spend every minute 197 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: I had in creeks, ponds, lakes wherever I could go 198 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: to catch trout. And I just didn't like killing things, 199 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: and it just turned me off. And as time went on, 200 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: I kind of I warmed up the hunting a little bit, 201 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: and when he would come home, I would wait for 202 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: him to come home, just for him to tell the stories. 203 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: And what really captivated me were the stories that he 204 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: brought home, and I thought to myself, I I think 205 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: I'd like to do that. I think I'd like to 206 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: make my own stories. And then then we basically started 207 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: hunting together. I got my hunting license. In New York. 208 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: At that time, you had to before teen years old 209 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: to bow hunt, and uh, I began bow hunting when 210 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: I was fourteen, and then you couldn't rifle hunt in 211 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: New York until you were sixteen, and that's when I 212 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: began hunting with a gun. And in the early days, 213 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: it was tough because I think my father and I 214 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: were kind of learning together. He had learned quite a bit, 215 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: but we used each other and we still do today 216 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: to to kind of bounce things off from each other 217 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: and learn as we go. And I guess that's kind 218 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: of where I stand and and where I started. Uh, 219 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: I'm definitely not an expert hunter. Uh a lot of people. 220 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: I have a collection of deer heads and I bring 221 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: them to shows because I'm an author. I've written a 222 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: couple of books on deer hunting in the Adirondex. So 223 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: to sell the books, I had to find a way 224 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: to promote myself, even though I'm not really a self 225 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: promotional person. So I decided I have I have over 226 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: twenty deer heads that are that are moun and my 227 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: father has some on top of that. So I decided 228 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: the best way to sell books would probably be to 229 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: go to these outdoor shows with the collection of deer 230 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,599 Speaker 1: heads as my display. So then I went to the 231 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: to the shows and I brought the deer heads as 232 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: a display and and it was a huge draw and 233 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: then a lot of people began to think that I 234 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: was some great hunter. And uh, although it might look 235 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: like I know what I'm doing on the wall, uh, 236 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: the reason that I got most of those deer is 237 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: just because I said, and spend so much more time 238 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: in the woods than anyone else does. And if anyone 239 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: spends as much time as I do in the woods, 240 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: they're definitely bound to get lucky at some point in time. 241 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: So I like it, But but don't undersell yourself, Todd. 242 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: You're you're doing a lot of things right, and I 243 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: think like to your point, the very most important of 244 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: all things we could possibly be doing as hunters is 245 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: putting in the time and energy, which definitely seems like 246 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: you're checking the box on that one. But um, but 247 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: then also, I mean, right, you you were hunting the 248 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: Adirondacks and the big mountains and the big woods, which 249 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: is this incredibly challenging environment. You were finding ways to kill, 250 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: you know, seemingly lots of mature bucks, the kind of 251 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: bucks that you know, obviously someone in New York but 252 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: even anywhere would be pretty excited about. And then you 253 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: also started changing things up though, and then traveling out 254 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: the Midwest to right, when did that start? Yeah, that's correct. 255 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: I Uh, for years and years I hunted the Adirondacks. 256 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: And and if if you're familiar with the Aderondex, we 257 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: have what we call die hard Adirondack hunters that will 258 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: never ever leave the ader Ondex because it's so challenging 259 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: and so rewarding when you kill a deer. There there 260 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: may be years where you might see one deer and 261 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: it might be a dough um. But if you see 262 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: any bucket, doesn't even matter what kind of bucket is. 263 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: It could be a spike horn, a four pointer, could 264 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: be a monster ten pointer, it could be anything. Uh, 265 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: you're considered above average because some people go for a 266 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: period of years without and seeing deer. So along the way, UM, 267 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to start killing a lot of 268 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: older deer and uh like good rack deer for the Adirondacks. Typically, 269 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: the Adirondacks don't produce big rack deer as far as 270 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: score wise, because all their energy goes to surviving the winner. 271 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: So when when all the energy goes to that, there's 272 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: nothing left over for antler growth. And on top of that, 273 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: there there isn't much feed. Um, they're pretty much browsers, 274 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: and there's not a lot of mast or anything in 275 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: the Adirondacks except for the lower portion of the Adirondack Park. 276 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: Um So, along the way, when I started killing a 277 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: lot of these mature deer, my father, my father was 278 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: doing the same, and I became fascinated with big antlers, 279 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I would like to kill big deer, 280 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: and I would like to see more Dear because I 281 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: knew that I I knew I would no matter where 282 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: I went. I knew I would have no problem finding 283 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: Dear if I could find him in the adder on dex. So, 284 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: when we decided that we wanted to do something different, 285 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: um I began shooting what they called the IBO National 286 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: Triple Crown. And I was pretty successful at competitive archery. 287 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: And I don't know, I think it was around I'm 288 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: not sure the time frame, but it was probably around 289 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: the year two thousand two. I was shooting the third 290 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: leg of the National Triple Crown and I was in 291 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: southern Ohio and there was this guy in my group 292 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: and I was shooting the semi pro class and he 293 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: was shooting in the hunter class, and for some reason 294 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: they had him in a group of three semi professional shooters, 295 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: and this guy was really nice and he was a 296 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: local guy. He was from right there. He was trying 297 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: to shoot so he could go home and he would 298 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: be done with the tournament. So as we are shooting, 299 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: I was telling him that, you know, hunting was my 300 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: passion and uh and I loved archery, but I never 301 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: had a place to really bow hunt. So when when 302 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: he was done for the day, he asked me to 303 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: go over to his car. So I walked to his car. 304 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: He showed me this photo album of all these deer 305 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: he had killed, and he said, well, what do you 306 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: think I said, oh, they're pretty impressive. I said, you'd 307 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: probably never see a deer in a lifetime like that, 308 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: and he had our index. He says, well, he's since 309 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: you don't have really many bow hunting opportunities where you live, 310 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: what do you think about coming out here and hunting 311 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: with me? So I asked him. I said, I would 312 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: love to come, but my father's my best friend, and 313 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: I really can't come unless he can come with me 314 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: because I don't do anything without him. And he looked 315 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: at me and he says, that's not a problem at all. 316 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: So then we became friends. And he showed me some 317 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: places at a hunt in Ohio on public ground, and uh, 318 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: that's when I started my trip into the Midwest. And 319 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: from Ohio, I just continued all the way across the 320 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: straight the states to Kansas. And to this day, I 321 00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: always take a week or two and I hunt. Something 322 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: is different in the Midwest. Um. I might randomly pick 323 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: it out, or I might hear about it from somebody 324 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: else like I did from this guy, and uh, and 325 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: then I just go and I hunt and I see 326 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: what happens. So that's kind of my story of how 327 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: I transition from the Big Woods to the Midwest. That's awesome. Well, 328 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: I want to talk about both of those two different 329 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: situations because we've got a lot of listeners that are 330 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: that fall into one of those two camps. But I 331 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: suppose let's first start where you started. Um, we don't 332 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: get to talk to enough people that hunt in areas 333 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: like you do in the other roundecks or in the northeast. Um, 334 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: but there's so many listeners that do. And so I'm 335 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: excited to kind of pick your brain about how to 336 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: do this because it's so different from hunting here in 337 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: Michigan or Ohio, where you've got, you know, lots of 338 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: egg land and small wood lots and easy little pinch 339 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: points and different things like that. I mean, it seems 340 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: like it's a totally different ball game. So I suppose 341 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: can you first, you've kind of elaborate, you've touched on 342 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: this a little bit already, but can you just kind 343 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 1: of set the stage a little bit for us? You know, 344 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: what is this big woods mountain hunting like in a 345 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: spot like where you're at New York and what you know, 346 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: how is it so different than what the rest of 347 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: us have? Okay, to the average person, it would be 348 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: really scary because like where I hunt, there's probably there's 349 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,479 Speaker 1: there's no intersecting road from from probably about twenty miles 350 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: from the point that I enter the woods. So if 351 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: you get lost and you're going in the wrong direction, 352 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: you're gonna have mountains to cross, or rivers to cross, 353 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: mountains to climb, swamps to navigate through. And uh, it's 354 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: it's really hard to not be intimidated, which is one 355 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: reason why not a lot of people hunt it. So 356 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: when you go into the woods, you have to learn 357 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: to you have to respect the woods, but you can't 358 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: be afraid of it. And you have to know how 359 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: to use a compass. Um A GPS is good, but 360 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: a GPS won't do you much good if it stops working. 361 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: So I've learned to navigate with a compass. My father 362 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: taught it to me when I was young, and I 363 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: pretty much rely on a camp compass, even though I 364 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: carry a GPS rhino And uh, that's how I start. 365 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: And when I say i pull up on the side 366 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: of the road and I'm going to go into some 367 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: place new, I have a general idea. I've looked at 368 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: it on a map and I know kind of what's 369 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: in there. And what I do is I I look 370 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: at different areas that I think I want to go to. 371 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: Like if there's a mountain that tapers down into a 372 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: big swamp, I'll look at that, I'll circle it and 373 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: I'll be like, Okay, that's the first place I'm gonna go. 374 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: So say it's three miles back in the woods. Um, 375 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: if I've never been in here before and it's daylight, 376 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: I'll just pick along and I'll observe as I go, 377 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: and I'll make my way to that place that I 378 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: circled down the map. And once I'm there, i'll determine 379 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: is it a place that I'm going to come back to? 380 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: How many good places are between where I came into 381 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: the woods and where I am, And then from there 382 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: I'll continue on to say and other place that I 383 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: have on there, and I'll try to loop all the 384 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: way through it and see what I can find. Um, 385 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: if I go through the area and I don't see 386 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: any sign that I'm looking for, such as big rubs, 387 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: signpost rubs, old scrapes with like licking branches, stuff like that, 388 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: then I probably won't go back. I need something to 389 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 1: show me that it's worth my time to go back there. 390 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: So so this is this whole the starting point, I think, 391 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: at least for me, and I'm betting for a lot 392 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: of people. Beginning in an area like this seems like 393 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: the most intimidating portion of the whole hunt. When you 394 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: have this vast wilderness, all this landscape, and it's like, 395 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: how do I find dear, how do I even start? 396 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: You mentioned the fact that you would look at maps, 397 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: and one example you said was that you would look 398 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: where a mountain dumps off into a swamp. So can 399 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: you can you talk a little bit more about what 400 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: these different spots are that you look at or look 401 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: for as starting point. So that's one example. What else 402 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: would you look for in a map to say, Okay, 403 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: that's a good starting point, and this is a good 404 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: starting point. What are some of these key places you 405 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: would kind of focus in on to find where the 406 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: deer might be to begin with? Sure, I'll tell you 407 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: this is my favorite thing to do. Um I'll look 408 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: at a map and I'll see I'll try to find 409 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: what I call a bridge. And a bridge is going 410 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: to be something that takes you from one area to 411 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: the other. And let's say we have just to compare, 412 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: like we have an ocean on both sides of the bridge, okay, 413 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: and then on the opposite opposite end of each side 414 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: of the bridge, there's a there's a landmass there. So 415 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: I look for the bridge that links things in. An 416 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: example of that would be say I'm going along and 417 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: I find a bunch of beaver ponds, and these beaver 418 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: these beaver ponds blocked the deer from going through them, 419 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: like they're not most likely they're not going to swim 420 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: through the pond um. And then on the other end 421 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: of the beaver ponds there's there's like really rugged cliffs. 422 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: They're straight up and down cliffs, so you can't the 423 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: deer can't n have a gate because you know, they're 424 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: not rock climbers. So what I then I have a bridge. 425 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: They have to find a way to get on the 426 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: other side of the beaver ponds and travel on this 427 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: side of the cliff. So if you can find something 428 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: like that that will funnel the deer through an area 429 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: where they have no other option, that's gonna be most 430 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: likely a really good place in big woods. And there 431 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: are a lot of different places like these. Uh the 432 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: examples I used, I just used them because I have 433 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: a place that that I've killed a lot of really 434 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: nice deer that is just like that. And but it 435 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: could be a variety of different things that could be. Uh. 436 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: It could be like a river. I mean, deer will 437 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: swim rivers, but if they can go along the river 438 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: and then they find an easier spot across the river downstream, 439 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 1: like where it shallows out or something, then just look 440 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: for things to send the deer in the same area, 441 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: like they're really focus them in one area where they 442 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: don't have an option. Okay, so that makes sense. So 443 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: it's we're looking for funneling features. They're just they're different 444 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: funneling features than what I have in Michigan, Ohio. You know, 445 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: instead of two big fields and a little narrow strip 446 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: of timber, it might be you know, like you said, 447 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: it's all within timber, but there's different terrain features or 448 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: water features or things that still have the same effect. 449 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: Um do you kean and other like topographic features to 450 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: like saddles and ridges, points that kind of that kind 451 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: of stuff too. Yeah, there's there are some really good 452 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: places when you're hunting big woods, and you like what 453 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier. When you find a swamp at the 454 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: base of a mountain, um, that's usually going to be 455 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: a really good spot. And the reason being is there 456 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: you'll usually find a runway that goes along the swamp, 457 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: and along those swamps there are usually a bunch of scrapes, rubs, 458 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: et cetera. And the reason it's good is because the 459 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: dose will travel on the edge of the swamp and 460 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: bucks can be on the ridge above that, and if 461 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: the wind's blown uphill, then they can get a whiff 462 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: of it. And say the buck goes down into the 463 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: area by the swamp, he has an easy escape route. 464 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: He can either go back onto the mountain, or he 465 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: can just jump into the thick cover in the swamp. 466 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: So like when I find a swamp, it's uh, it's 467 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: definitely one of my first places I go, just because 468 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: usually that's where you're going to find the most sign um. 469 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: Another thing too, in swamps, like I've never I mean 470 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,479 Speaker 1: I've seen it in the Midwest, but not like in 471 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: the in big woods, you'll find signpost rubs, which are 472 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: rubs that the deer will come back to a year 473 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: after year. And Uh, when you find these signpost rubs, 474 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: that's usually a really good place to sit because just 475 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: like a scrape, a number of different deer will visit 476 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: the signpost rub and you can usually in the area 477 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: that I hunt, you'll find them like on black ash trees, 478 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: and they'll always be in like a lowland swampy type area. 479 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: Sometimes if you're in the area and you're looking for 480 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: those things in the spring, it'll be underwater. But for 481 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: the most part in hunting season, Uh, you know, they're 482 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: usually pretty visible because the sign will take you past them. 483 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: So how do you use that kind of sign? This 484 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: is one of the things that I'm always curious with 485 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: different people. You know, everyone kind of says that they 486 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: pay attention to rubs and scrapes, But I'm always curious 487 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: about how you're actually factoring that into your strategy. So, Okay, 488 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: you find this signpost rub, or you find a big 489 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: scrape or something, are you actually now going to hunt 490 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: like right over that or is that just like a 491 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: piece of the puzzle. It tells you Okay, this is 492 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,479 Speaker 1: a good general area, and then you look more. I mean, 493 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: how do you use specifically the sign that you see? Yeah, 494 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: that's exactly, it's a piece of the puzzle. Well, you 495 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: now you have to put the puzzle together. Like now 496 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: you're now in that general area where you found the 497 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: signpost rub, you have to look for all the other 498 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: puzzle pieces you and you need the corner pieces to 499 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: the puzzle. Without the corner pieces of the puzzle, that 500 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: signpost rubs sitting there is all it's going to be 501 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: as a puzzle piece laying in the pile with the 502 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: other pieces. So when I find that, I know it's 503 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: a good area. But now I have to determine what's 504 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: the best area for me to sit in here. Um. 505 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 1: Usually what I'll do is now that you know, now 506 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: that we have trail cameras stuff like that. I'll put 507 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: a bunch of trail cameras in that general area, and 508 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: I'll try to determine where a deer going in the daylight. 509 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: And if I can establish where the deer are in 510 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: the daylight, then I know I'm on the right track. Uh. 511 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: An example would be I found this signpost rob a 512 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: few years ago, and I put my camera on it. 513 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: So I got two bucks hitting the signpost tree, and uh, 514 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 1: one of them was in the middle of the night, 515 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: and one of them was at eleven fifteen in the morning. 516 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: So I'm like, Okay, I only have two deer on here, 517 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: the cameras here all year, so I'm like, the odds 518 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: aren't good for me to sit there. So I said, 519 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: I have to do a little more research and figure 520 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: this out. So then there's a stream that goes down 521 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: there and it kind of anders back and forth, and 522 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: then it dumps off into a bottom, and there's another 523 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: small mountain that runs down in and it creates a 524 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: bench across that stream. So there were a few runways 525 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: in there, and even though they are a hundred yards apart, 526 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: I put a camera on every runway. On the three runways, 527 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: two of them. I had active daylight pictures like regular 528 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: daylight pictures through November and the other one. Uh, there 529 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: were some pictures on there, but nothing in the daylight. 530 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: And in all these runways there are only a few 531 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: you know, hundred yards apart or whatever. And uh so 532 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: then I just used that to determine, Okay, dear, go 533 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: through here in the daylight. I have a lot of pictures, 534 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: and uh, it's not like in the Midwest, You're not 535 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: gonna have a lot of pictures such as like hundreds 536 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: of pictures, Like I think I had four daylight pictures 537 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: and three weeks. So I'm like, okay, this this is 538 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: a good spot because you know, you see so few deer. 539 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: So after I found that, um, I determined it, you know, 540 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: that's the place. And then after finding that and then 541 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: sitting there, then I was able to you know, to 542 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: see deer and pass deer up where before it was 543 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: just a shot in the dark because I found the 544 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: signpost rub but I really didn't put the pieces of 545 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: the puzzle together. And then after they all directed me 546 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: over there to where those three runways were, which was 547 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: just over the next hill. Um, then I knew, I 548 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: knew I had that puzzle figured out so that it's 549 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: time to go to the next one. So on the 550 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: trail camera piece, can you can you elaborate on the 551 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: details of how you're using So it sounds like you're 552 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: finding a general area, you know, doing some on foot scouting, 553 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: then you're fine tuning with trail cameras. But like, when 554 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: do you put out the cameras, how long are you're 555 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: running them throughout the year? How often are you checking them? 556 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: I'm kind of curious about that stuff. Yeah, this is 557 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: a tough one because I'm not around a lot so 558 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: what I used to do. This is a new area 559 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: I'm hunting, and I haven't hunted it, and uh, you know, 560 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: I randomly hunted. I don't hunt it a lot, so 561 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to know what was going on 562 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: in there. So what I did is the first year 563 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: in there, I put the cameras in in July, and 564 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: by what the hell was it? By the end of August, 565 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: I had no cameras left left because bears destroyed them. 566 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: Bears pulled them off trees, they smashed him on the ground, 567 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: and it was just a mess. So that first year 568 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: it was a disaster. So I'm like Okay, I can't 569 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: do this. I can't put them in here that early 570 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: because for some reason, that early the bears get him. 571 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: So then I started putting them in our muzzle. Older 572 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: season usually opens the second weekend of October. So I'm like, okay, 573 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: I'll put him in the second weekend of October, and 574 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: I'll leave them there through the season, which is the 575 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: usually the first weekend second weekend of December. And what 576 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: I did, I put them in there in the in 577 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: the beginning, and I put I always put some of 578 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: them on scrapes, like if I that area I was 579 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: just telling you about, I found a primary scrape with 580 00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: a licking branch in there. There's a bunch of rubs 581 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: around it, and it was on a runway. So I 582 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: kicked the scrape out and I put buck urine in it, 583 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: and then I put a camera on it. And then 584 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: there were two runways on each side of that, and 585 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: and they were well used runways, and I decided, well, 586 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: I'll put cameras on both of them. So so now 587 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: I have those three cameras right there. So I have 588 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: a one on a scrape that they use every year, 589 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: figuring I'm going to get most of the deer and 590 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: the most of the bucks in this area because they're 591 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: gonna come back to that scrape. So then I went in. 592 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: I checked it the next week because I'm I'm gonna 593 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: every weekend. I'm only in there on the weekend because 594 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: it's too far for me to hunt, like after work 595 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and then I go way to the Midwest. 596 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: I usually leave for the Midwest the first in November, 597 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: so I have that one week to check it. So 598 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: I go in there, I check all of them, and 599 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: when I put that camera on the scrape the next week, 600 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: I had a daylight picture at nine o'clock the next 601 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: day from when I put it on there, and it 602 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: was a really really good buck for the adder Ondex 603 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: and the two the two cameras on the runways had 604 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: nothing on them. So then now I'm now I'm in 605 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: the Midwest. So then I come home. And when I 606 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: come home, I usually come home on Thanksgiving week. So 607 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: on Thanksgiving Day, I'll drive my few hours north and 608 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: walk my few hours in the woods and i'll hunt, 609 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: you know, the morning and early afternoon for Thanksgiving, and 610 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: I'll go in and I'll check them. I'll check every 611 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: camera I have in the woods, and then I'll determine 612 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do from that point until the end 613 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: of our season. And so really I only check the cameras. 614 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: I check them probably three times a year. I check 615 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: them that first week, um, when I come back from 616 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: vacation in the middle of November, and then I check 617 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: them the week after that going into the last week 618 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: of our season, and then I'll make any adjustments on 619 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: whether I think I'm in a you know, I could 620 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: be in a better spot and and things like that 621 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: based on what I see on the camera. So typically, 622 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: and maybe this is different now that you're that you 623 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: spend time in the Midwest, But do you spend a 624 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: lot of time hunting in that October time period or 625 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: you're usually waiting untill later during guns season, um, you 626 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: know when you can still hunt and stuff like that. 627 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: It's funny to ask that because I thought about that 628 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: today and I'm like, I think he's gonna ask me 629 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: this question. I don't want to answer it because I 630 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: have to be truthful. But yeah, I for twenty years, um, 631 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: from the time I was sixteen until the time I 632 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: was thirty six, I can count on one hand the 633 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: number of days I missed in our entire season in 634 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: New York. In those days I missed. Uh, they're all 635 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: because I was sick. And uh, I remember one year 636 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: I missed one day because I was I was really sick. 637 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: I couldn't get out of bed, and my father killed 638 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: a really nice buck on that day. And then I missed. 639 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: I missed three days on another year because I was 640 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: I had like the flu and I couldn't get out 641 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: of bed. And they're the only three days I missed 642 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: in those twenty years in the season in New York. 643 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: And Uh, what happened is when I started going to 644 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: the Midwest, I started getting a little less ambitious as 645 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: far as going into the big woods because I know 646 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: that I'm not going to see any deer. And I mean, 647 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: I'll see deer, but the work you put into it 648 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: to see the deer, it's just it's beyond what most 649 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: people can comprehend. And I always put the work in 650 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: back then. But now as I've gotten older, I've I 651 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: wouldn't say I've gotten lazy, but I'm like, maybe I'm 652 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: smarter because I know what I'm going to see in 653 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: the woods at that point in time. So now I 654 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: kind of I back off a little, like, I mean, 655 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: I'll I've hunted one day so far, but next weekend 656 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: our muzzle older season will open, and then I'll be 657 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: in the woods pretty much every day, just because I 658 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: always think in the back of my mind, this could 659 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: be the day A right. So how do you deal 660 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: with that though? As a hunter, knowing that you're gonna 661 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: see so few year and that you know that this 662 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: type of honey is so much more difficult than you 663 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: know what guys are dealing with these other states. I mean, 664 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 1: what's your vice for another guy it's got a similar 665 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: situation like that? How do you handle that? How do 666 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: you deal with that knowledge, that painful knowledge that this 667 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: is a very difficult I just wrote an article about 668 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: this for New York Outdoor News, And uh, I think 669 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit different than most people because that 670 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: when I don't see any deer, it drives me like 671 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: I want a hot harder, because I'm like, I want 672 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: to see a deer, and I want to see the 673 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: deer that I want to see. Um, So a lot 674 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: of people will get discouraged, and I'm kind to the opposite. 675 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: I hunt with my buddy Brian, and he gets really discouraged, 676 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: and I I don't really get discouraged. I get more, 677 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: I get more confident as I go, Like I can 678 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: always feel it when I'm getting close. I'm like, I'm 679 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: getting close. I'm getting close, and I'm not sure if 680 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: I'm convincing myself of that or if it's really happening. 681 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,919 Speaker 1: But I always, I always do these things to make 682 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: myself realize that, you know, the next minute could be 683 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: the minute that you shoot the biggest buck of your life. 684 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: In New York, and what I do, I use little 685 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: things like if I see a new sign that I 686 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: hadn't seen before I go through some new country, I'm like, this, 687 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: this could be the place. And I just use little 688 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: things to motivate me. So it's not I mean, you 689 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: have to find things to motivate you to go in 690 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: the woods. And one thing I just like and I 691 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: enjoy being the woods because I'm kind of a loaner 692 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: and I like to be alone, and I liked my 693 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,240 Speaker 1: alone time and my mind wanders all over the place, 694 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: and I've probably written a thousand novels when I've been 695 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: sitting in the woods, and it just gives me. It 696 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,879 Speaker 1: gives me time to unwind and appreciate life because where 697 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: I'm from it's really wild country, and uh, it gives 698 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: you a better appreciation for who you are and where 699 00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: you come from. Yeah, I imagine so converse to that. 700 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: So right, there's this innate challenge to hunting an environment 701 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: like that. But tell me about the feeling when you 702 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: do kill a mature bucket situation like that. It's got 703 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: to be pretty incredible. Oh yeah, it's uh, it's an 704 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: unbelievable feeling. But then it can be followed by like 705 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: extreme sadness almost because like some of these deer, like 706 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: one deer, I hunted this one deer for a number 707 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: of years and I'm like, I am going to catch 708 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: up to this deer, and every time the deer like 709 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,359 Speaker 1: outsmarted me and it would blow, it would take off, 710 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: I jump it. And for big woods, that doesn't happen 711 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: usually too often because usually don't find the same deer 712 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: in the same area because they're they're kind of wanderers there, nomads. 713 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: But this one deer, like we we just went back 714 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: and forth. It was like a NonStop battle. And then 715 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: there was this really really crappy morning. I mean it 716 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: was it was brutal. It was nasty. It had snowed 717 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,800 Speaker 1: all night. The snow were it was on the trees. 718 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: You couldn't see anything. And I was sitting there and 719 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 1: I heard like a little noise and I looked over 720 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: and the deer was it was looking right at me, 721 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,720 Speaker 1: and I had my gun in my lap. I picked 722 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: the gun up, I put on it, and it was 723 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: almost like we looked at each other and and I 724 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: could tell the deer was saying, oh ship, and but 725 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: he there was nothing he could do. And then I 726 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: just pulled the trigger and it was over, and it 727 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: was I don't know, it's kind of I don't know 728 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: if you can compare it like this, but it's like 729 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: watching a movie and then the ending comes and you 730 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: almost want to cry because it's like, oh, man, that 731 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: that sucks. I knew that was going to happen, but 732 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: that sucks. Yeah. So I don't know if that's a 733 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: kind of you know, explains it well enough, but that's 734 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: kind of how it feels. Like it's a perfect analogy. 735 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: You don't want that movie to end, Yeah, exactly. I 736 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: completely understand what you're saying. I get so caught up 737 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: in the challenge that when I accomplished the task. Well, 738 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:07,919 Speaker 1: like I I'm not. I don't know if I'm ready 739 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: for a new task. It's like, okay, I'm not. I'm not. 740 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: I haven't had enough of this of this one yet. Yeah, 741 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: I have experienced something similar for sure. I UM. I 742 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,919 Speaker 1: was kind of curious, as you mentioned a second ago, 743 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,720 Speaker 1: about the fact that you don't bump deer very often 744 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: this kind of in this kind of area because there's 745 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: just not that many deer. Um, how do these deer 746 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: react to hunting pressure? I mean, do they get so 747 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 1: little hunting pressure that it doesn't bother them, or do 748 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: they freak out because they're not used to seeing humans? 749 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: And when they do, it's like this huge change. They 750 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: do both of those things. Every I've seen deer do both, 751 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 1: you know, both ends of the spectrum. Uh, it all 752 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: depends on the deer, and every deer is different. Like 753 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: I have this one deer that I've been chasing around 754 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,919 Speaker 1: now for a few deer a few years, and it's weird, 755 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 1: Like I'll put a trail camera up and then I'll 756 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: leave and then the deer will be in that buck 757 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: will be in the in the picture within an hour 758 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: of when I left. Yeah, and it happens every single time, 759 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: and it's almost like he's toying with me, like he's 760 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: watching me or something. And then I have this other deer. 761 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: Um for the last four years, I've gotten one picture 762 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: of him, and it's been on all different cameras, and 763 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: as soon as that deer sees the camera or like 764 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: the picture, you know, it takes a picture, he's gone 765 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: because I have it on like video and the picture 766 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,959 Speaker 1: comes first and he bolts out of there so quick 767 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: it's it's unbelievable. And so, I mean, every deer is 768 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,240 Speaker 1: kind of different. And I've had deer that I've jumped 769 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: and they've stood up and they've just turned around and 770 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: looked at me, and I've shot him, and I've had 771 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: other deer that I've never seen him again. So it's 772 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,479 Speaker 1: kinda every you know, it's kind of like people. Each 773 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: person is their own person in this area, kind of 774 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: each deer is their own deer. That makes sense. So 775 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: kind of going back to the building blocks of a 776 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: strategy in this kind situation, right, it sounds like a 777 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,399 Speaker 1: lot of what you're doing is focusing on finding these 778 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 1: funneling features, something that funnels deer through them. But do 779 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: you ever spend time actually trying to find bedding or 780 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 1: feeding areas. You know, does that even exist? Is it 781 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: all just betting and feeding? The thing is with the 782 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,760 Speaker 1: feeding thing is what I do is when the snow 783 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: flies while even when the snow is not on the ground, 784 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you can see where they paw around and leaves. 785 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: Like say, I'm sure you're familiar with this. If you 786 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: go to where there are a lot of oaks, you 787 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: can see where they pot around and leaves, leaves are 788 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: turned over and they find the acorns. UM. I always 789 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: look for that early in the year because if I 790 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: can find we're deer or feeding. Um whether usually the 791 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: area huh, it's mostly beech nuts, if there are any nuts, 792 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: And if I can find where they're feeding, I'll definitely 793 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: go there because it's like a gold mine because they 794 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: don't normally have that type of food because they really 795 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: only have brows in the area. So the instant that 796 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,760 Speaker 1: I can find anything like that, um, I'll be sitting 797 00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: on it. And it doesn't matter whether it's early season, 798 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,919 Speaker 1: late season, middle of the season, because deer have to eat. 799 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,959 Speaker 1: And it's kind of like this. If you drive down 800 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: the street and you see a subway, chances are you're 801 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: going to see people in it, right, So it's the 802 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: same thing. So when I find something like that, it's 803 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: like a subway or a McDonald's, Like I know they're 804 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,879 Speaker 1: going to be in it because because those restaurants don't 805 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 1: exist in that region, So I mean they're gonna go 806 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: to the good food and uh. And then usually like 807 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: when the ruck comes along or whatever, I know Dose 808 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: will be feeding there. And if I can see Dose, 809 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: and I know I'm gonna see Bucks because in the mountains, 810 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 1: Bucks will go for miles to to search out a dough. 811 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: And as far as betting, like I've seen, I've seen 812 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: a lot of places where the same buck will bed 813 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: over and over. It might be like on a ledge 814 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: that overlooks a big bowl or something like that. But 815 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: on the opposite end to I think a lot of 816 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: our deer are like random wanders. They wander, wander why 817 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: under and then they get tired and they lay down 818 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 1: because it's not like they don't need a bedding ground 819 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,800 Speaker 1: like in the Midwest and the Midwest they need the 820 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: bedding ground for protection. But in the big woods where 821 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: they don't really have a lot of predators, um such 822 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 1: as it's like humans, Um, the betting area doesn't. I 823 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: mean some places, I hut, you'll see it. But for 824 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: the most part, it's just random. They'll bed here and there. 825 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: A lot of them like to bed high, you know, 826 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: high on mountains and uh and stuff like that where 827 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: they're a little bit above everything. What do you what 828 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 1: do you think is the biggest mistake that most guys 829 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 1: and girls are making when hunting in places like this 830 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 1: because most people I'm making assumption here, tell me if 831 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, But most hunters out there in the Adirondacks 832 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: or in Hampshire or Vermont or wherever Pennsylvania where they're 833 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,359 Speaker 1: hunting this hilly, big woods country, most of these people 834 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: are not killing the big old bucks, the few big 835 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: old bucks out there. So what are these people doing. 836 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 1: What's the most common mistake that these people are doing 837 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 1: that's keeping them from killing in that big old one. 838 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if it would be a mistake, but 839 00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,399 Speaker 1: most people just don't have the drive. I mean, it's 840 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 1: like what we just talked about, you need to go, go, go, 841 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,319 Speaker 1: go and go without giving up. In most people just 842 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: give up, um, I mean, they just don't have it 843 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 1: in their mental makeup to keep on going. But as 844 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: far as the people who hunt all the time that 845 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: actually you know they hunt every day and they just 846 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 1: can't catch up to them. There are a bunch of 847 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: different things that probably contribute to the reasons why they're 848 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: not successful. And one of them is I think that 849 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: people go too fast, like their ram ram ram, and 850 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: they don't pay attention to the clues that are around them. 851 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,840 Speaker 1: It's like what we're talking earlier with the puzzle pieces. 852 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: As you go put the puzzle together, don't just walk 853 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: through the middle of all the pieces that are laying 854 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: on the floor. And that's what people do. They ram 855 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 1: through the pieces on the floor without really trying to 856 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,560 Speaker 1: put all of them together. If you step back and 857 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,319 Speaker 1: you take the time to put them together, then the 858 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 1: picture is gonna be painted in front of you. And 859 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: that's that's kind of what I try to do. And 860 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,399 Speaker 1: another thing I know that like, I have a friend 861 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: of mine who he just can't figure out why everybody 862 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 1: else kills Big Deer and he has such a hard 863 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,919 Speaker 1: time with it. He'll see him occasionally, but he doesn't 864 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: kill him. And he over analyzes everything. It's okay to 865 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: be analytical, but don't overanalyze yourself to death because he 866 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 1: just every single thing, and it hurts my head to 867 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: listen to him talk because I'm like, wow, I can't 868 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 1: even imagine like thinking that much. Dear Dear are habitual creatures, 869 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: but if if you were able to figure out their habit, 870 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,919 Speaker 1: then you you kill a big buck every single year there. 871 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: You know, even though they're habitual, they don't have habits 872 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: where you can just say, Okay, I got this figured out. 873 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 1: Anybody who says they have Dear figured out, then I 874 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: have a hard time believe in that because a lot 875 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 1: of it just comes down to luck. You're you put 876 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: yourself in the right place and you're there at the 877 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,920 Speaker 1: right time. Like a deer might go through an area, 878 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: whether you're in the Midwest or whether you're in the Adirondacks, 879 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: it might go through an area once a week. If 880 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,280 Speaker 1: you're there on Tuesday and it goes through on Wednesday, 881 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: then you're out of luck. But if you're there the 882 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 1: same day goes through, then that's your lucky day. So 883 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 1: it's if you goes back to that, if you put 884 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 1: your time in, you'll probably be successful. And that's what 885 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,479 Speaker 1: I always tell people. Just put your time in Yeah, yeah, 886 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,319 Speaker 1: it's funny that mature dear sure have a way of 887 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 1: making the best made plans look foolish. You can put 888 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,400 Speaker 1: to your point, you have to do your best to 889 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,360 Speaker 1: make those plans and look at the puzzle and to 890 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,000 Speaker 1: try to put yourself in the best possible position, and 891 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: then at least you've got the best chance of getting 892 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,880 Speaker 1: that luck that you just need to wait for and 893 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: put your time into eventually get. So that's another thing 894 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 1: like people, I mean a lot of people too. Like 895 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,719 Speaker 1: I hunted in most people in the Aderondacks, they don't 896 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,359 Speaker 1: hunt specific deer and they hunt in parties. Um. That's 897 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,879 Speaker 1: why I'm a little bit unique in uh, in the Adirondacks, 898 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: because I hunt by myself and I usually try to 899 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 1: hunt a specific deer um. And you know, there are 900 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:19,960 Speaker 1: a lot of things you have to pay attention to 901 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,359 Speaker 1: when you're hunting a specific deer uh, And I think 902 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,359 Speaker 1: people just don't pay attention to that. Like a lot 903 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,160 Speaker 1: of my friends are trackers, and I tell people I 904 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,800 Speaker 1: don't have the patients for trackers. Then my tracking friends 905 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,520 Speaker 1: tell me they don't have the patients to sit. So 906 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: you have to find you know, what works for you. 907 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 1: And although I don't track, I still hunt so and 908 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,799 Speaker 1: when I'm still hunting, I pay attention to things like 909 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,799 Speaker 1: you know, a big buck is gonna have a you know, 910 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 1: a wider gate when it's walking and uh you you 911 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: usually know it's carrying a good rack. Like you'll see 912 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,640 Speaker 1: where dose will go, Like they'll go underneath trees, they'll 913 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 1: go like in between trees in A big buck won't 914 00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: do that because a lot of times as antlers won't 915 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 1: go through there, so he'll walk around it. So if 916 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 1: you pay attention and you see where deer, like a 917 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,839 Speaker 1: deer walks around something, you're like, oh, that might be 918 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 1: the deer right there. You know, they might some of 919 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,280 Speaker 1: them might have like a distinguishable mark on their track 920 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,680 Speaker 1: or something like that. And a lot of people don't 921 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,640 Speaker 1: pay attention. I mean, as you go you have to 922 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,120 Speaker 1: look at the tracks and pay attention. Okay, that that 923 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,359 Speaker 1: one has a chipped hoof, I can see it right there, 924 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: and then you know it's the same deer. So I mean, 925 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,840 Speaker 1: just try to pay attention to two different things that 926 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,400 Speaker 1: deer do. Mhmm. Yeah. The whole thing with tracks is 927 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 1: something that it's it's something that so many modern hunters, 928 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,719 Speaker 1: I think overlook because we have, you know, the technology 929 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: like trail cameras and stuff to make you know, scouting 930 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,600 Speaker 1: a little bit easier. But it's something that I think, um, 931 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, you know, given what you're saying a lot 932 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,400 Speaker 1: of other successful hunters, it's something that should not be ignored. 933 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,359 Speaker 1: I'm trying to get better at paying attention to that 934 00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: and learning what those subtle things are that you need 935 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: to look look for that might determine yes, this is 936 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,440 Speaker 1: a mature buck, or yes this is the type of 937 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,320 Speaker 1: track I need to be king in our this is 938 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,520 Speaker 1: a recent track versus an older track versus you know, 939 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,719 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. There's there's a lot of 940 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: kind of woodsmanship that I think has been lost that 941 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,160 Speaker 1: I think we, probably all of us, would benefit to 942 00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 1: learn a little bit more about. Yeah, that's where I'm 943 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,640 Speaker 1: kind of lucky because like at my age, I started 944 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:26,719 Speaker 1: before all the technological advances and hunting, so I kind of, 945 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:28,680 Speaker 1: you know, I have the best of both worlds. I 946 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,880 Speaker 1: have the old stuff to go by and I have 947 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,680 Speaker 1: the new stuff to help me. Um, It's just like 948 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: when when I'm in the woods or whatever, and you 949 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,279 Speaker 1: have a bunch of deer in an area. And Uh, 950 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,759 Speaker 1: I learned this from a friend of mine. Um, you 951 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 1: have a bunch of tracks, you get a track and 952 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,279 Speaker 1: you're lost in there. You're like, oh, where the hell 953 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,319 Speaker 1: did he go? And uh, a friend of mine from 954 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,879 Speaker 1: me and Randy Flannery, he says, you know, just take 955 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,880 Speaker 1: a little stick, put it in the track and break 956 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,160 Speaker 1: it off the same length as the track. He said, 957 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,080 Speaker 1: when you go through, just keep putting in the tracks 958 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,399 Speaker 1: until you find you'll find the same track because it'll 959 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,719 Speaker 1: fit exactly the same in the track. So then, like 960 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: if you thought a deer went out one way, you 961 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,600 Speaker 1: could find out just by that little stick you got 962 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,719 Speaker 1: in your pocket that it's actually gone the other way. 963 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: And you're not wasting a lot of time doing that. 964 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,359 Speaker 1: So in the same thing, like people, people don't pay 965 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:22,239 Speaker 1: attention to when deer p in the snow and uh, 966 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 1: bucks will almost always like they tend to urinate when 967 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: they walk. But at the same time, when they when 968 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 1: they urinate, they shoot a hole in the snow. And 969 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,640 Speaker 1: uh does like if you see the tracks in the snow, Uh, 970 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,840 Speaker 1: where does go to the bathroom? Uh? It'll the urinill 971 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 1: usually be behind Like where the rear hoof prints are 972 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,520 Speaker 1: because does have to squat to pe usually, So I 973 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 1: mean you have if you pay attention to stuff like this, 974 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,600 Speaker 1: then you'll have a better idea of what you're seeing 975 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 1: as far as the tracks, instead of just saying, oh, 976 00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,279 Speaker 1: there's a lot of tracks here, right, that's interesting. That's 977 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,480 Speaker 1: uh to your point. So many of us run right 978 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,719 Speaker 1: through the puzzle without even really paying attention to what 979 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: is there, without reading the clues. And that's one of 980 00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,920 Speaker 1: those things that I certainly have have probably not done 981 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,160 Speaker 1: a good enough job paying attention to as well. So 982 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: that's super interesting stuff. Um. So, I guess unless there's 983 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,120 Speaker 1: something big that you think we've left out on the 984 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:25,960 Speaker 1: big woods, I got let me ask that first. Is 985 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,279 Speaker 1: there anything that we should touch on when it comes 986 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 1: to big woods or mountain hunting before we move on 987 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,040 Speaker 1: to what you're doing in the Midwest, anything you want 988 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:33,960 Speaker 1: to make sure that you share we touch Oh yeah, 989 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: another thing on why people don't kill deer up there? Um, 990 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 1: what people doing this happens anywhere. It could be like 991 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,879 Speaker 1: in Ohio like where you hunt, or you know where 992 00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,920 Speaker 1: a buddy hunts in Michigan or whatever. A lot of 993 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,160 Speaker 1: people will kill a deer, they'll kill a nice deer, 994 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,640 Speaker 1: and they'll go back there next year, and then we'll 995 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 1: go back there the next year and look back there 996 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,080 Speaker 1: next year. I've killed a lot of deer in the 997 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,480 Speaker 1: same places. But at the same time, if I kill 998 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,080 Speaker 1: a deer in a place, I don't keep going and 999 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,840 Speaker 1: back there just because I killed a deer there in 1000 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,840 Speaker 1: the past. Like, if I go back there, there's a 1001 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,799 Speaker 1: reason why I'm back there, So don't keep returning to 1002 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,799 Speaker 1: the same place if the sign doesn't warrant you going 1003 00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,640 Speaker 1: back there. Yeah, see, because people think, oh, I killed 1004 00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:16,640 Speaker 1: a deer here last year, I'm gonna kill another big 1005 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,160 Speaker 1: buck here this year, and it just doesn't work that 1006 00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,200 Speaker 1: way usually. Yeah, it's a great point, right, It comes 1007 00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,440 Speaker 1: down to you said it, why why did they kill 1008 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,480 Speaker 1: big buck here? And if the answer to that question 1009 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,840 Speaker 1: as well, because he was randomly chasing a dough or something, 1010 00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 1: well maybe that's not somewhere you're gonna kill buck year 1011 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,600 Speaker 1: after year. But if the answer to that is, well, 1012 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,959 Speaker 1: because this terrain feature funneled him down here, then maybe 1013 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,319 Speaker 1: that is a spot a right. I mean, that's exactly 1014 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,000 Speaker 1: it's asking that question. Yeah, And then I mean another 1015 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,239 Speaker 1: thing I do too is when I killed deer, if 1016 00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,279 Speaker 1: it's on the snow, I always backtrack them. Okay, I 1017 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,359 Speaker 1: killed it, the deer is dead there Before I do 1018 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:56,000 Speaker 1: anything else, I'll follow the tracks backwards. And most people 1019 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,799 Speaker 1: will never take the time to do it because they're 1020 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 1: so excited that they just killed a deer. If I 1021 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,480 Speaker 1: follow the tracks back where I might find out something 1022 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,359 Speaker 1: that could help me in the future. Um, and then 1023 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,120 Speaker 1: I want to find out where did the deer come 1024 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,640 Speaker 1: from and what was it doing before it got to me. 1025 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:16,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, and uh, I mean that's another one of 1026 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,120 Speaker 1: those puzzle pieces. You might find another piece of your 1027 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,800 Speaker 1: puzzle even though you think you already put the puzzle together. 1028 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,200 Speaker 1: So it's a little things like that that a lot 1029 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,279 Speaker 1: of people overlook or don't do. And uh, and I 1030 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,600 Speaker 1: think this stuff like that might help me be successful, 1031 00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, more often than not. Yeah, yeah, it seems 1032 00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,000 Speaker 1: like it. I love that idea to backtracking. I always 1033 00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,160 Speaker 1: find myself like wishing, like it would be so cool 1034 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,239 Speaker 1: if you could. Of course, I wouldn't want this to 1035 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:46,719 Speaker 1: be in the real situation, but it it would be so 1036 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,400 Speaker 1: cool to be able to have a deer that you 1037 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,200 Speaker 1: could like track and see, you know, have a radio 1038 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,960 Speaker 1: collar on her somewhere. If I had a personal access 1039 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,560 Speaker 1: to just see what a deer does during his day. 1040 00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,400 Speaker 1: I know some researchers do have that, and I guess 1041 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,520 Speaker 1: maybe I just want to be a researcher and be 1042 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,200 Speaker 1: able to have that, um just to see how how 1043 00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,759 Speaker 1: fascinated would be to see how a buck spends his day. 1044 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,759 Speaker 1: You know, we all, you know, almost making assumptions about 1045 00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:10,600 Speaker 1: what I think they're doing and where they're traveling and 1046 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,880 Speaker 1: how they're doing it. But I would love to, like, 1047 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,680 Speaker 1: like if you, once you killed your buck, if you 1048 00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,879 Speaker 1: could like press a little button and then it shows, Okay, 1049 00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,719 Speaker 1: here's what he's been doing his whole life. I mean, 1050 00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:20,680 Speaker 1: that would be so interesting. And I guess what you're 1051 00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,920 Speaker 1: doing backtracking is a real life way to get a 1052 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:27,280 Speaker 1: little bit of insight into that. So I like that idea. 1053 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:32,080 Speaker 1: It's entertaining, Yeah for sure, Yes, Yeah, that helps a lot. 1054 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,680 Speaker 1: Which is trickier. It seems like these days we don't 1055 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,600 Speaker 1: get quite quite as much of it. I feel like 1056 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,160 Speaker 1: it did when I was younger. But um, so let's 1057 00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:42,080 Speaker 1: talk about when you made that transition heading out west. 1058 00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:43,880 Speaker 1: We've talked to a number of different hunters over the 1059 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,080 Speaker 1: past couple of years who live in different parts of 1060 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:47,880 Speaker 1: the country that traveled to the Midwest, And I think 1061 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:49,680 Speaker 1: there's lots and lots of people like that who have 1062 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,319 Speaker 1: their their week of rut vacation maybe where they're gonna 1063 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: go to their big buck holy Land state, and they've 1064 00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,399 Speaker 1: got to fit in all their hopes and dreams into 1065 00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,359 Speaker 1: that seven days or whatever it is. You've been able 1066 00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:06,560 Speaker 1: to do this consistently successfully? How do you Let's start 1067 00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:08,000 Speaker 1: at the beginning, how do you start that? How do 1068 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,040 Speaker 1: you even pick, like where you're going to hunt? What's 1069 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,879 Speaker 1: a good because you're doing most is on public land, 1070 00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,839 Speaker 1: I think, right, so how do you even begin that? 1071 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,000 Speaker 1: How do you pick? Okay, this is a good public 1072 00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:22,040 Speaker 1: land spot, this isn't or anything like that. But actually, 1073 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,719 Speaker 1: before we make this shift, let's pause briefly to think. 1074 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:29,160 Speaker 1: Our partners of this podcast episode Mayven Optics and Maybe 1075 00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,200 Speaker 1: is a relatively new company creating high end optics like 1076 00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:36,319 Speaker 1: binoculars and spotting scopes for serious outdoor adventures. But they're 1077 00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,040 Speaker 1: doing it differently than anyone else out there, and the 1078 00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,080 Speaker 1: biggest differentiator is that they only sell direct to the consumer. 1079 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,480 Speaker 1: Through their website, and this allows them to do a 1080 00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:48,080 Speaker 1: couple of things. First, because they don't have a retailer middleman, 1081 00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,160 Speaker 1: they can sell these very high end optics at significantly 1082 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,040 Speaker 1: lower prices than the other optics manufacturers out there. And secondly, 1083 00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,280 Speaker 1: they're also able to offer a huge amount of customization 1084 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,960 Speaker 1: options for these optics. I'm talking all which different builds 1085 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,960 Speaker 1: and colors and camels and engraving and all sorts of 1086 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,000 Speaker 1: really cool stuff. But what do you really get when 1087 00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,040 Speaker 1: upgrading to a high end optic like this? That's what 1088 00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:15,000 Speaker 1: I recently asked Maven co founder Brendan Weaver. Well, I 1089 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,360 Speaker 1: think you know it's a lot of money. You know 1090 00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,040 Speaker 1: it's and and I don't mean to downplay that that 1091 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,960 Speaker 1: you know you can you can buy a decent binocular 1092 00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,799 Speaker 1: and lomart and that it works for a lot of people. Um, 1093 00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,400 Speaker 1: a thousand dollars is a lot of money to spend 1094 00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,160 Speaker 1: on something, and so it takes a lot of consideration. 1095 00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:36,480 Speaker 1: And you know, I guess what I tell people is that, yes, 1096 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:42,239 Speaker 1: if whatever you're doing is is kind of aimed at 1097 00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,760 Speaker 1: going out super early staying out late, in the value 1098 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,319 Speaker 1: that you get during those two times of the day. 1099 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:52,000 Speaker 1: If that's a high value to you, that's when you're 1100 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,920 Speaker 1: gonna see something like what we put out there is 1101 00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:58,000 Speaker 1: that's when you're going to see the difference if you 1102 00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,680 Speaker 1: take our stuff out and you line it up against 1103 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,600 Speaker 1: every other brand in the market in the middle of 1104 00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,320 Speaker 1: the day, great light, Um, I know what to look for. 1105 00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,319 Speaker 1: You know, you can show people the differences in it. 1106 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,920 Speaker 1: Um And granted you're going to see a big difference 1107 00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,240 Speaker 1: between something that's super cheap and what we're putting out, 1108 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:23,520 Speaker 1: but um, it's it's that extra you know, forty five 1109 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,480 Speaker 1: minutes to an hour and sometimes even longer than that, 1110 00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:31,240 Speaker 1: that you can get in a day from using something 1111 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,480 Speaker 1: like a maiden product, because if if you know, you 1112 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:37,960 Speaker 1: don't get to get out there and hunt all that 1113 00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:41,880 Speaker 1: much um and a lot of stuff happens early and late, 1114 00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,320 Speaker 1: and if you can stretch that out for another hour, 1115 00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, and let's say that you've got you know, 1116 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,000 Speaker 1: you've carved out your vacation time. You've been looking forward 1117 00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,000 Speaker 1: to this hunt for for five years. You put it 1118 00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:59,520 Speaker 1: together with your buddies and you can make use of 1119 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,800 Speaker 1: an extra hour of daylight at day over you know, 1120 00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,480 Speaker 1: a week, that's a lot of time, and that's you know, 1121 00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,800 Speaker 1: that can be pretty important, and it's you know, there's 1122 00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:15,720 Speaker 1: a there's a there's a chance that you don't want 1123 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,840 Speaker 1: to spend you know, step up from two d fifty 1124 00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:23,160 Speaker 1: to a thousand dollars to make that happen. But I personally, 1125 00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:26,880 Speaker 1: I think it's worth that money to get that kind 1126 00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,880 Speaker 1: of performance. And that's what you get, UM. You get 1127 00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:33,560 Speaker 1: you know, you get flawless glass, but you get fantastic 1128 00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,880 Speaker 1: low light performance UM when you step up into a 1129 00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:41,200 Speaker 1: glass like ours. I can definitely attest to that. I've 1130 00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,280 Speaker 1: been using Maven binoculars for the last two years now, 1131 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,720 Speaker 1: and wow, what you can see in those final mens 1132 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:51,520 Speaker 1: of daylight is way, way, way different than I used 1133 00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,880 Speaker 1: to with my old cheebows. So if you'd like to 1134 00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:57,360 Speaker 1: check out some Maven binoculars for yourself, even build up 1135 00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,200 Speaker 1: a sample set, you can go to maven built dot com. 1136 00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,880 Speaker 1: That's Maven and then the word built b U i 1137 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:08,320 Speaker 1: lt dot com. And now back to the show with Todd. 1138 00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,920 Speaker 1: I was just asking Todd about how he begins this 1139 00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,480 Speaker 1: whole process of finding a spot to hunt on public 1140 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,880 Speaker 1: land in the Midwest. I do a lot of research, 1141 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,400 Speaker 1: UM and another thing is I have a pretty big 1142 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,840 Speaker 1: network of people across the country. Um, you know, I 1143 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:28,000 Speaker 1: shot competitive archery for thirty years and I met a 1144 00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,280 Speaker 1: lot of people across the country, so that usually gives 1145 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:34,680 Speaker 1: me a relatively safe area to start. Like if I 1146 00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:36,960 Speaker 1: know somebody that lives say I know somebody lives in 1147 00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,840 Speaker 1: Michigan or whatever. Then I say, well, how's the hunting 1148 00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:41,520 Speaker 1: near you? And then we talked a little bit, and 1149 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,880 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, if I was coming out there hunting, 1150 00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,160 Speaker 1: where do you think a good area of the state 1151 00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:47,880 Speaker 1: would be to go? And you know, they give me 1152 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,320 Speaker 1: their opinion. Then I'll go online. I'll look at it, 1153 00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,480 Speaker 1: and uh I'll start looking around a little bit, and 1154 00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,440 Speaker 1: then I'll I'll search different hunting forms to see if 1155 00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:01,120 Speaker 1: anybody talks about those places in uh. I guess you'd 1156 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,840 Speaker 1: call me a stalker. Like I don't, I don't say anything. 1157 01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,080 Speaker 1: I just read all this stuff, okay. And then if 1158 01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,360 Speaker 1: I say, I go like online on a forum and 1159 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:15,160 Speaker 1: I find somebody I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh, like, actually, 1160 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:18,800 Speaker 1: I've hunted Colorado the same same place for years in 1161 01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,800 Speaker 1: elk hunting, and uh so then this year I was 1162 01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,240 Speaker 1: looking at a different area. I just wanted to explore 1163 01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,000 Speaker 1: a little bit. And I'm like, holy kyl, there was 1164 01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,520 Speaker 1: a guy that's signed on right there in his hometown 1165 01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,720 Speaker 1: is the same exact place I'm going. So I just 1166 01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:35,560 Speaker 1: sent the guy, you know, I said, hey, you know, 1167 01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:39,720 Speaker 1: i've hunted out there since and I'm coming out. Do 1168 01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,000 Speaker 1: you know anything about this area? I mean, it's just 1169 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,959 Speaker 1: a generic random, you know, question or whatever. And you'd 1170 01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,960 Speaker 1: be amazed at how people help you. And as long 1171 01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,040 Speaker 1: as I'm not infringing on him, like he's gonna give 1172 01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,600 Speaker 1: me information and uh like, I get a lot of 1173 01:00:55,640 --> 01:01:01,200 Speaker 1: information that way. And Okay, for every ten times you 1174 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,680 Speaker 1: do it, you're probably gonna strike out eight times, but 1175 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:06,840 Speaker 1: then you might just hit that one person that could 1176 01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,800 Speaker 1: really help you. Um. Some people aren't willing to help 1177 01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:14,520 Speaker 1: other people are. And I formed lifelong friendships through stuff 1178 01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:18,040 Speaker 1: like that. I know, years ago. I it was in 1179 01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:22,200 Speaker 1: the mid nineties. Maybe I was online and I this 1180 01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:26,080 Speaker 1: person wanted uh information on this special draw unit for 1181 01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,240 Speaker 1: elk hunting in Colorado. I had just haunted it the 1182 01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,720 Speaker 1: month before, and I knew I wasn't getting drawn for 1183 01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,560 Speaker 1: probably four or five more years. So I just typed 1184 01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:37,520 Speaker 1: the guy said, this is my phone number. Give me 1185 01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:39,240 Speaker 1: a call and give you any of the information that 1186 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:43,760 Speaker 1: you would like. So he he called me up and 1187 01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:45,520 Speaker 1: he said, well, what can you tell me about I said, well, 1188 01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:49,680 Speaker 1: I've haunted it three times, I said, and when I 1189 01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:51,320 Speaker 1: was in there, this is what I learned. And this 1190 01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:53,280 Speaker 1: is where I killed the elk, and this is where 1191 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:54,680 Speaker 1: I saw a lot elk. This is the place I 1192 01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:57,080 Speaker 1: would avoid. Well, he went in there, he killed a 1193 01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:01,200 Speaker 1: really nice elk, and that he said to me, said, well, 1194 01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,520 Speaker 1: he says, if I can ever return the favor, he says, 1195 01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,080 Speaker 1: I'll return the favor. And uh, I think it was 1196 01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:12,000 Speaker 1: actually maybe. And in two thousand and six he called 1197 01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:13,680 Speaker 1: me on the phone. We kind of kept in touch 1198 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,560 Speaker 1: set like you know, emails back and forth now and then, 1199 01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,680 Speaker 1: but it wasn't It wasn't like a regular contact back 1200 01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,160 Speaker 1: and forth. But we did keep in touch. And like 1201 01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,480 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, I think he called me and 1202 01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,400 Speaker 1: he says, hey, says, uh, I got a place that 1203 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,760 Speaker 1: you can look at hunting out here. He says, I 1204 01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:32,640 Speaker 1: have a little more time now where I can be 1205 01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:36,480 Speaker 1: involved in it. Blah blah blah. And he lived in Kansas, 1206 01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,200 Speaker 1: so that's how I started hunting in Kansas, and then 1207 01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,040 Speaker 1: when I started going out there, he gave me more 1208 01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:44,640 Speaker 1: and more information. I met more people out there, and 1209 01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:49,160 Speaker 1: one thing led to the next. So that's kind of 1210 01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:54,400 Speaker 1: how I go about finding my places. And then I'll 1211 01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,640 Speaker 1: also go through like every almost every state has UH 1212 01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:01,680 Speaker 1: on their website. They have conservation in areas. UM I 1213 01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:05,920 Speaker 1: click on almost every single conservation area and I study 1214 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,800 Speaker 1: everyone and I write down what it has that I like, 1215 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:12,840 Speaker 1: and then if I find enough the stuff that I 1216 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,720 Speaker 1: like in it that I I set it aside. I'm like, Okay, 1217 01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,560 Speaker 1: this one has to get looked at further. So then 1218 01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:20,280 Speaker 1: I'll go down and then I'll come up with say 1219 01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,600 Speaker 1: thirty or forty of them, and then I'll just keep 1220 01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:24,680 Speaker 1: on narrowing it down until I find the place I want. 1221 01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:29,400 Speaker 1: So then when I decide where I'm gonna go, I 1222 01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,040 Speaker 1: have my place I'm going, but I have no idea 1223 01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,400 Speaker 1: how many people are going to be there, So I'm 1224 01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,080 Speaker 1: like crossing my finger. It's not gonna be overwhelmed with people. 1225 01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,400 Speaker 1: So when I get there, I have a plan. I'm 1226 01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,920 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna look at this place, that place, in 1227 01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,560 Speaker 1: that place, and I'm usually with my father, and neither 1228 01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,680 Speaker 1: one or two of my friends. So there's like four 1229 01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,360 Speaker 1: of us that travel together. So each of us bites 1230 01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,160 Speaker 1: a chunk off and we all go in our own directions, 1231 01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:55,640 Speaker 1: and then we come back and we decide it's worth 1232 01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,440 Speaker 1: hunting or it's not worth hunting, and if it's a maybe, 1233 01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:02,640 Speaker 1: then we'll we'll give it an you know, a couple 1234 01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,600 Speaker 1: more days or whatever. But if it's a no, then 1235 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,560 Speaker 1: I go to my next place on there, even if 1236 01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:09,640 Speaker 1: it's a three hour drive away. Okay, we're going to 1237 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,560 Speaker 1: the next place. And I won't waste time in some 1238 01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,160 Speaker 1: place once I get there that it doesn't show what 1239 01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to show. And so I don't get sucked 1240 01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:23,160 Speaker 1: into some place that I shouldn't be. And uh, I 1241 01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:25,120 Speaker 1: think that's a secret. You just you have to be 1242 01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,240 Speaker 1: willing to move, and you have to be willing to 1243 01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,680 Speaker 1: blow a week or two of your vacation. If I 1244 01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,040 Speaker 1: come home with nothing, I don't care because I come 1245 01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,720 Speaker 1: home with nothing before. And if I come home with nothing, 1246 01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:41,600 Speaker 1: then it's it's a bad trip if I didn't learn anything. 1247 01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,200 Speaker 1: But if I learned something that I'm probably going to 1248 01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:48,200 Speaker 1: capitalize on that. And then in the next trip. So 1249 01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:49,919 Speaker 1: I want to I want to take a jump back 1250 01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:51,760 Speaker 1: to something, and then I want to talk a little 1251 01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:53,560 Speaker 1: bit more about those first couple of days of your hunt. 1252 01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,200 Speaker 1: But first, you said that you're looking at all these 1253 01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:58,000 Speaker 1: pieces of public claim, like you know, you find it 1254 01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,320 Speaker 1: on the state website, and sounds like you're you're looking 1255 01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,000 Speaker 1: at maps and stuff. And you mentioned that you're looking 1256 01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:05,440 Speaker 1: for certain good things in these properties, and if the 1257 01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:07,760 Speaker 1: property has enough of the good things, then you're gonna 1258 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,920 Speaker 1: focus on that. What are the things you're looking for? 1259 01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:11,520 Speaker 1: What are those good things that you're trying to key 1260 01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,760 Speaker 1: in on to tell you that this property could have potential. 1261 01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,919 Speaker 1: One thing that I look for is I'm from the Adirondex, 1262 01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,400 Speaker 1: So I'm looking for pieces of land to have a 1263 01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,280 Speaker 1: lot of timber on it, which you know, of course 1264 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:27,439 Speaker 1: sometimes that's hard to find in the Midwest. Uh. Number one, 1265 01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,560 Speaker 1: I know if I find timber, it's going to keep 1266 01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:31,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people out of it, because people are 1267 01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:35,280 Speaker 1: afraid of the woods, uh, no matter how big they are. 1268 01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:39,520 Speaker 1: So if I can find acreage that's you know, anything 1269 01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:44,160 Speaker 1: above like a thousand acres of wooded area, then I'll 1270 01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,520 Speaker 1: definitely circle that, Like this is a place I need 1271 01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:49,560 Speaker 1: to go because a thousand acres it might not seem much. 1272 01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:51,960 Speaker 1: But if you're in a thousand acres of woods and 1273 01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,720 Speaker 1: you've never really hunted woods, you've hunted field edges, stuff 1274 01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:58,000 Speaker 1: like that, it can be really intimidating for the average guy. 1275 01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:02,160 Speaker 1: So I looked of that, and I look for places 1276 01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:06,920 Speaker 1: I can access only by boat. So if I can 1277 01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,200 Speaker 1: only get there with a boat, then I'm almost sure 1278 01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:14,440 Speaker 1: it's going to be good. So you know, I do that, 1279 01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,240 Speaker 1: whether it's a river, a lake, a stream like whatever 1280 01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:21,520 Speaker 1: it is, So those two things out of the way. UM. 1281 01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:28,000 Speaker 1: I also look for areas that either are closed to hunting. UM. 1282 01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:30,720 Speaker 1: It might be a place around there that has there's 1283 01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,480 Speaker 1: no hunting allowed. It might be owned by like a 1284 01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:38,200 Speaker 1: government agency. UM might be owned by say like a 1285 01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:41,280 Speaker 1: church group and they own a big piece of land 1286 01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:44,720 Speaker 1: and there's no hunting allowed on it. Because then I 1287 01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:46,880 Speaker 1: know there's no hunting allowed on it. It works as 1288 01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,800 Speaker 1: a sanctuary for deer on the public land, and that's 1289 01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:53,760 Speaker 1: where they're gonna go. Yeah. Um, I look at plat 1290 01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:57,040 Speaker 1: maps to see who owns the land around it, and 1291 01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,920 Speaker 1: then I'll research that online. I'll be that silent stalker 1292 01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:04,920 Speaker 1: again and some places. I one place that I found 1293 01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,400 Speaker 1: was really good because I knew that this person hunted 1294 01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:12,040 Speaker 1: on their own land and they were a presence in 1295 01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:15,160 Speaker 1: social media, and I'm like, I just found your land 1296 01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:20,040 Speaker 1: and uh, and it bordered public land, and and I 1297 01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:22,400 Speaker 1: had read where they had killed like a hundred ninety 1298 01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,600 Speaker 1: engineer on it, and I'm like, there's no way that 1299 01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:28,439 Speaker 1: deer wasn't living on that public land. So I mean, 1300 01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,480 Speaker 1: you have to It goes back to the whole thing 1301 01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,920 Speaker 1: about you have to be a little more motivated than 1302 01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:37,600 Speaker 1: everybody else. And that's kind of what has led to 1303 01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:42,160 Speaker 1: me being successful. I think, Yeah, I do a lot 1304 01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:44,120 Speaker 1: of that plat books talking too, But I've got a 1305 01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:46,840 Speaker 1: buddy who just takes it to a whole different level. 1306 01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,920 Speaker 1: Like he literally knows everyone for like two counties. If 1307 01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:51,960 Speaker 1: you mentioned the last name, He's like, oh, yeah, such 1308 01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,840 Speaker 1: and such is over by this street in that street, 1309 01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:55,800 Speaker 1: and I hear there's a there's a co op down 1310 01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:57,880 Speaker 1: the road from there, And I heard that such and 1311 01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:00,560 Speaker 1: such has got the number six book buck in the state. 1312 01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:04,760 Speaker 1: And he knows everything for all the southern Michigan. And 1313 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:09,760 Speaker 1: I should get together, Yes, yes, there'd be some interesting conversations. Um. Actually, 1314 01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:11,760 Speaker 1: I'll tell you one of the best places I ever found. 1315 01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,640 Speaker 1: Let's get it. I was driving. I was driving down 1316 01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:18,639 Speaker 1: the road and my dad and I had a general idea. 1317 01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,240 Speaker 1: Somebody told me, go look in this area. And I'm 1318 01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,720 Speaker 1: in southern Ohio. So I'm driving along and I'm like, 1319 01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,760 Speaker 1: we're driving down this road and I look and there's 1320 01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:31,400 Speaker 1: this guy taking this picture on the barn. He's got 1321 01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:32,960 Speaker 1: his deer heads on a barn and he's taking a 1322 01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,439 Speaker 1: picture and he's got his bow, you know, and he's standing. 1323 01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:38,559 Speaker 1: And as soon as we drove by, and I looked 1324 01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:40,599 Speaker 1: and I said to my father, said, turned the freaking 1325 01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,679 Speaker 1: car around. I said, that's so, And so I said, 1326 01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,280 Speaker 1: I saw him in North American Whitetail last month. And 1327 01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:49,679 Speaker 1: he turned around. And this is on a back road 1328 01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,200 Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere. We're basically kind of lost, 1329 01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:54,120 Speaker 1: even though we know we know where we are, but 1330 01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:57,000 Speaker 1: we don't know how we got there. So we meet 1331 01:08:57,080 --> 01:08:59,880 Speaker 1: this guy, and uh, and we started talking to he 1332 01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,479 Speaker 1: introduced himself. In the course. I know who he is, 1333 01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:04,720 Speaker 1: but I you know, I know his name, and I 1334 01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:08,240 Speaker 1: know him from reading about him. But I don't you know, 1335 01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:10,800 Speaker 1: I don't personally know him. So then we talked back 1336 01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:13,880 Speaker 1: and forth and he's and he's saying, oh, yeah, he 1337 01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:17,040 Speaker 1: thinks we're just we're not pretending we're hunters or anything. 1338 01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:19,120 Speaker 1: We're just kind of like, you know, oh, those deer 1339 01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:20,880 Speaker 1: are cool, blah blah. He doesn't know the first thing 1340 01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:23,719 Speaker 1: about us. So anyeah, we got a bunch of information 1341 01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,800 Speaker 1: about him. Then it turns out like the picture that 1342 01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:28,160 Speaker 1: he was taken on the bar and that showed up 1343 01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:33,360 Speaker 1: in another bow hunting magazine, and I'm like interesting, And 1344 01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:35,519 Speaker 1: then everything he's talking about in there, I'm like, I 1345 01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:39,200 Speaker 1: know exactly where he killed his deer and it bordered 1346 01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:43,400 Speaker 1: all public land. Wow, that's pretty awesome. There's there's some 1347 01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,439 Speaker 1: good stuff down that part of the state, that's for sure. 1348 01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:47,760 Speaker 1: So I mean a lot of it's, like I said, 1349 01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:49,360 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of things are just luck. 1350 01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I was lucky to be driving down the 1351 01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:54,479 Speaker 1: road that day and he was there. I would have 1352 01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:57,040 Speaker 1: never known that he lived there because I wasn't doing 1353 01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:59,600 Speaker 1: the old plat mapping down there, because it was just 1354 01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:04,439 Speaker 1: a place I was randomly looking at. So I love it. 1355 01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:09,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes you just gotta be present and out there trying 1356 01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:11,640 Speaker 1: and just sometimes luck will fall into your letting that 1357 01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,480 Speaker 1: applies to hunting or finding places down or anything like that. Um, 1358 01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,000 Speaker 1: really quick, it's kind of taking a little tangent here. 1359 01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:19,639 Speaker 1: You talked about how one of the things you look 1360 01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:23,919 Speaker 1: for is water, where water keeps people from accessing places. 1361 01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:26,360 Speaker 1: And when we talked earlier this year, you told me 1362 01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:29,640 Speaker 1: about a pretty cool little lightweight canoe I think or 1363 01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:32,080 Speaker 1: kayak or boat that you used to access these spots. 1364 01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,000 Speaker 1: What was that? Because that sounds like a tool that 1365 01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:36,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people would would find handy. Back here 1366 01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,320 Speaker 1: in New York, a lot of people do like backcountry 1367 01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:41,519 Speaker 1: fishing in ponds where they gotta kit. They have to 1368 01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:44,400 Speaker 1: carry boats for miles into the woods on trails and 1369 01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:46,960 Speaker 1: some of them go, you know, like cross lots with 1370 01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:52,440 Speaker 1: no trails in the boat. They're called Radisson canoes. Um. 1371 01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,439 Speaker 1: What they do is they come with tours. You sit 1372 01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,080 Speaker 1: in the bottom of the canoe and it's lightweight, it's 1373 01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:02,840 Speaker 1: like pound and U they come with. You can get 1374 01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:04,920 Speaker 1: a shoulder strap for him so you can carry them 1375 01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:09,439 Speaker 1: kind of like a backpack almost and you walk through 1376 01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:11,519 Speaker 1: the woods with them. And these things are great because 1377 01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,080 Speaker 1: they're fairly stable. They're not you wouldn't want to be 1378 01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,599 Speaker 1: in it if you if you weren't comfortable in a canoe. 1379 01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:20,160 Speaker 1: They're fairly stable and they can get you almost any 1380 01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:22,880 Speaker 1: place that you want to go, and we use them. 1381 01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:26,640 Speaker 1: We usually bring two of them with us. And uh 1382 01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,639 Speaker 1: then there were able to get down small streams, were 1383 01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:33,080 Speaker 1: being able to get across big rivers, uh ponds, lakes 1384 01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:36,200 Speaker 1: and but one thing you really have to do is 1385 01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:37,920 Speaker 1: you have to have a life jacket with you. I 1386 01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:39,960 Speaker 1: mean I would never go in the water without a 1387 01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,680 Speaker 1: life jacket. How expensive are those? Do you have any 1388 01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,200 Speaker 1: idea what they were on? Oh? Shoot, I would say 1389 01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:49,120 Speaker 1: the last I knew they were running between like six 1390 01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:52,800 Speaker 1: and seven bucks, but that that was a long time ago, 1391 01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,439 Speaker 1: so I don't know. Um, they make another there's another 1392 01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:58,640 Speaker 1: person up here in the aud Ondecks. It makes a 1393 01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:04,560 Speaker 1: kevlar canoe and those are a little bit more unstable 1394 01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:06,720 Speaker 1: for me. And there are a lot more expensive and 1395 01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,840 Speaker 1: they're called hornback canoes and they're made right here in 1396 01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,920 Speaker 1: the Adderandecks. Interesting, I was just that I was an 1397 01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:17,880 Speaker 1: ari I last night actually, and they had something called 1398 01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,360 Speaker 1: an o Ru kayak. The brand was o O are U. 1399 01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,760 Speaker 1: It's hide a spell it And it basically was a 1400 01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:27,360 Speaker 1: kayak or a small canoe that packed up with a 1401 01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,479 Speaker 1: back with backpack straps on the back of it, and 1402 01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:32,639 Speaker 1: it packed up into basically I don't know, like about 1403 01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:34,280 Speaker 1: the size of if you were to buy hang on 1404 01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:36,679 Speaker 1: Tree Stand, the box that I hang on Tree Stand 1405 01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:39,640 Speaker 1: comes in, that's basically what this packed down too. And 1406 01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:40,920 Speaker 1: then you could just throw that in your back. That 1407 01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,200 Speaker 1: was an interesting idea I saw too. I don't I 1408 01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,559 Speaker 1: don't know how much that costs, but having a portable 1409 01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:50,839 Speaker 1: boat like that would seem super superhanded access in these spots. 1410 01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,400 Speaker 1: So so fast forward. Let's fast forward back to where 1411 01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,240 Speaker 1: you were talking about last. So you've found your different 1412 01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:59,280 Speaker 1: You've got a handful of different public properties you're gonna 1413 01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:01,680 Speaker 1: hunt now, you and your buddies and your dad. You 1414 01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:04,080 Speaker 1: start going out there these first few days, So tell 1415 01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:06,920 Speaker 1: me a how are you hunting those first couple of days? 1416 01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,479 Speaker 1: You are you just sitting observation stands? Or do you know, 1417 01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,280 Speaker 1: like I want to go right to the best spot, Like, 1418 01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:13,880 Speaker 1: tell me how are you first hunting? And then what 1419 01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:15,960 Speaker 1: do you need to see that either tells you to 1420 01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:19,320 Speaker 1: stay or go to a new spot. We we probably 1421 01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:22,080 Speaker 1: piss off a lot of people because we're kind of 1422 01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:27,960 Speaker 1: like wild Banshee Indians. Uh. We will walk through every 1423 01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,840 Speaker 1: single bit of the property, like I'll cover every single 1424 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:33,719 Speaker 1: bit of it. I mean, I'll walk, I'll zig zag, 1425 01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:36,799 Speaker 1: I'll do everything. And I'm sure people get piste because 1426 01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:40,400 Speaker 1: it's in November. You're on public land, people are on 1427 01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:44,240 Speaker 1: their vacation, and I'm walking all through the woods and 1428 01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,240 Speaker 1: we all do the same thing. And what we do 1429 01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:51,240 Speaker 1: is we walk in the first day, We'll try to 1430 01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:54,040 Speaker 1: determine where do we want to go, like where do 1431 01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:56,280 Speaker 1: we want to start on the next day, and then 1432 01:13:56,400 --> 01:14:00,160 Speaker 1: like I'll either market with my gps um like okay, 1433 01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:02,640 Speaker 1: I'll mark the way point and then I'll have it 1434 01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:05,599 Speaker 1: right there and like this will be number one, number 1435 01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:08,600 Speaker 1: two or whatever. And then the next day I'll go 1436 01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:10,839 Speaker 1: back there. We'll all go back to wherever we found 1437 01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,439 Speaker 1: and we'll hunt there in the morning and then we'll 1438 01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:15,600 Speaker 1: see what happens in the morning. We'll meet in the 1439 01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,120 Speaker 1: afternoon and then we'll come up with another game plan. 1440 01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,400 Speaker 1: And like say you're hunting on like a you know, 1441 01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:26,400 Speaker 1: public area that's four thousand acres or something, and it's 1442 01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:28,720 Speaker 1: it's not a bunch of different roads. We'll all go 1443 01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,400 Speaker 1: to a different road and we'll all do our thing, 1444 01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:34,760 Speaker 1: and then we'll come back and we'll discuss it, and 1445 01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:37,000 Speaker 1: then we'll make a plan from there. Like my father 1446 01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:40,080 Speaker 1: and I try to cut do what it's called cut 1447 01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:43,280 Speaker 1: areas off. Like if he finds a place and it 1448 01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,840 Speaker 1: looks like, uh, you know, two of us can be 1449 01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:47,920 Speaker 1: in one area and we might be able to get 1450 01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,600 Speaker 1: a big buck. Say there's big Bucks signing there, and 1451 01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:52,599 Speaker 1: then be like, okay, maybe if two of us are 1452 01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:54,760 Speaker 1: in here fairly close together, then one of us will 1453 01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:58,920 Speaker 1: get a chance. And that's really key to hunting. You 1454 01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:03,400 Speaker 1: need really really good hunting partners. If you don't have 1455 01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:09,400 Speaker 1: the right hunting partners, your your trips can be a disaster. Yeah, 1456 01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:11,960 Speaker 1: Like I mean, you can't care who kills the deer. 1457 01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:13,960 Speaker 1: I don't care who kills the deer, whether it's me, 1458 01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:17,600 Speaker 1: my buddy Doug, my buddy Brian, or my father, I 1459 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:19,280 Speaker 1: don't care who kills it as long as one of 1460 01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:21,960 Speaker 1: us gets a good deer. Like like right now, I'm 1461 01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,439 Speaker 1: getting a lot of the you know a lot of 1462 01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:26,800 Speaker 1: people have found me because I had to do a 1463 01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:30,200 Speaker 1: little self promotion because of my books and stuff. But 1464 01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:33,160 Speaker 1: those three people that hunt with me, my father, Doug, 1465 01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,960 Speaker 1: and Brian, I mean, they're just as successful as I am, 1466 01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,920 Speaker 1: and without them, I wouldn't be as successful as I am. 1467 01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:44,880 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a team type thing. Yeah, 1468 01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:49,599 Speaker 1: So when you're out there, what is going to tell you? 1469 01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,440 Speaker 1: I guess I still want to know what's the criteria 1470 01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:54,120 Speaker 1: to to stay or go? You know, if you if 1471 01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:55,920 Speaker 1: you guys go out there and you you you're checking 1472 01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:58,400 Speaker 1: out these areas. If you see another hunter or a 1473 01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:00,559 Speaker 1: couple other hunters, is that game over. We gotta try 1474 01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:03,280 Speaker 1: to find a different spot or is it give me 1475 01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:06,280 Speaker 1: some more details on that. It all depends on the area. 1476 01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,680 Speaker 1: I mean, like if I go into an area and 1477 01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:10,479 Speaker 1: there are people hunting in there. Like one of my 1478 01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:12,760 Speaker 1: biggest pet peeves when I get to where I'm going 1479 01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,400 Speaker 1: and there's somebody parked there and I'm like, oh man, 1480 01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:17,080 Speaker 1: But then I'm like, wow, there's a lot of woods 1481 01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,280 Speaker 1: in there. Most people hunt, you know, certain areas all 1482 01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,040 Speaker 1: the time. They don't move around. So I'll go in 1483 01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,280 Speaker 1: there and I wander around. If the person isn't in 1484 01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:28,320 Speaker 1: an area that I found that I like, I'll stay 1485 01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:30,200 Speaker 1: in there. If they're an area I found that I like, that, 1486 01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:32,559 Speaker 1: I won't go back because I don't think it's fair 1487 01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:34,599 Speaker 1: to them. Even though it's public land, it's not fair 1488 01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:37,840 Speaker 1: to them. So when I'm in there looking around, I 1489 01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:41,360 Speaker 1: usually look for as many scrapes as I can find 1490 01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:45,880 Speaker 1: in a fairly tight area, um, you know, where they're 1491 01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:50,280 Speaker 1: not far apart, and I look for multiple runways that 1492 01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:53,400 Speaker 1: come together, like maybe two, three, four or five runways 1493 01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:56,519 Speaker 1: that all come together around those scrapes, and then I 1494 01:16:56,560 --> 01:17:00,719 Speaker 1: need some thick cover around there someplace you and uh, 1495 01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:03,680 Speaker 1: those are the places that I usually look for. If 1496 01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:07,000 Speaker 1: I find all of that in one place like uh. 1497 01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,600 Speaker 1: Usually when I find a place like that, I go 1498 01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:11,280 Speaker 1: back to the camp and I show my buddies and 1499 01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:13,479 Speaker 1: I market on my GPS just so I know where 1500 01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:16,000 Speaker 1: it is. So if they want to go there and 1501 01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:18,400 Speaker 1: I'm not going there, I could just give the way 1502 01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:20,800 Speaker 1: point to them, then they can go find it and 1503 01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:25,240 Speaker 1: I mark on their the killing tree because because usually 1504 01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:27,360 Speaker 1: when I find a spot, I'm almost sure we can 1505 01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:31,439 Speaker 1: kill a good buck there. Yea, So how are you 1506 01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:33,920 Speaker 1: actually hunting a spot like that? Thenice. I think you 1507 01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:36,080 Speaker 1: said that you hunt that first morning, then come back 1508 01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:39,120 Speaker 1: and meet up. But the rest of the hunt, then 1509 01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:43,360 Speaker 1: let's say you find this good spot you set up. Um. 1510 01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:45,240 Speaker 1: You know, do you hunt all day during the run 1511 01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:49,360 Speaker 1: on these trips or do you move around throughout the day? Uh, 1512 01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:51,719 Speaker 1: tell me a little more about that. Yeah, it depends 1513 01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:55,320 Speaker 1: on the day. Um. Throughout my hunting career, no matter 1514 01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:58,200 Speaker 1: where I've been, whether it's been in the Adirondacks, the Midwest, 1515 01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:02,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you're during the season, you're always gonna have 1516 01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,960 Speaker 1: one or two days where deer are just going bananas 1517 01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:08,519 Speaker 1: in the woods. Like I mean, there's deer running all 1518 01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,000 Speaker 1: over the place. You're seeing bucks. Uh, you know, one 1519 01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:13,840 Speaker 1: after another a day like that, Like when I come 1520 01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,200 Speaker 1: across that day and I'll know what it is when 1521 01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:19,280 Speaker 1: it happens. Uh, I'll sit where I am all day. 1522 01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:23,200 Speaker 1: I won't move Um On other days, I base it 1523 01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:26,200 Speaker 1: on the on the activity through the day. If I 1524 01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:29,200 Speaker 1: get to I usually sit until eleven thirty or twelve. 1525 01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:31,960 Speaker 1: If I get to twelve and it's kind of slowing 1526 01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:34,719 Speaker 1: off and there's not a lot going on, I won't 1527 01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:36,880 Speaker 1: really go out of the woods. I'll just move to 1528 01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:40,320 Speaker 1: another spot. So I'm still in the woods, but I've 1529 01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:44,160 Speaker 1: just moved my location. So that way, I'm I'm staying 1530 01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:47,920 Speaker 1: active and I'm I'm just moving around and I'm not 1531 01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:49,920 Speaker 1: like I'm not gonna wear a spot out. I'm just 1532 01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:54,160 Speaker 1: gonna keep on moving and moving moving. So what about 1533 01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:56,960 Speaker 1: trail cameras? Do use trail cameras on these Midwestern trips 1534 01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,560 Speaker 1: at all to help you scout these public spots? Oh? Yeah, 1535 01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:03,920 Speaker 1: I used them. And the thing with using them as 1536 01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:07,280 Speaker 1: you just have to be willing to throw a hundred 1537 01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:10,800 Speaker 1: bucks out the door because people are gonna gonna steal. 1538 01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:15,000 Speaker 1: Last year, we found a Last year, Brian and I 1539 01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:19,479 Speaker 1: were walking around in Uh. I saw this really big bucket, 1540 01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:21,920 Speaker 1: was probably like a hundred and sixty inch deer, and 1541 01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:24,559 Speaker 1: it was going away from us, and my father was 1542 01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:26,760 Speaker 1: he didn't feel well, and he was sitting on this 1543 01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:30,400 Speaker 1: like ditch and the deer was going right towards that ditch. 1544 01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:31,960 Speaker 1: And I said to Brian that deer is gonna walk 1545 01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:34,960 Speaker 1: right by my father, And sure enough, it came out 1546 01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:37,680 Speaker 1: into this opening. But then it it sensed something was 1547 01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:40,960 Speaker 1: wrong and it went the other way. So anyhow, we 1548 01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:44,320 Speaker 1: went out and we met my father and uh he 1549 01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:47,400 Speaker 1: decided he was gonna sit in there the next day. Well, 1550 01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,040 Speaker 1: on the way to meet him, Brian and I found 1551 01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:53,719 Speaker 1: this incredible scrape and there was a there was a huge, 1552 01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:55,360 Speaker 1: huge rub there. I mean it was as big as 1553 01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:58,000 Speaker 1: my thigh, and so we put a camera on it 1554 01:19:58,000 --> 01:19:59,600 Speaker 1: because it was it was really active, and I was 1555 01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,360 Speaker 1: pretty sure it was that deer, even though I wasn't positive. 1556 01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:04,120 Speaker 1: So I'm like, I want to picture of that deer. 1557 01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,680 Speaker 1: So we put the camera on there, and then my 1558 01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:10,760 Speaker 1: father we we walked around. My father he found a 1559 01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:12,920 Speaker 1: spot for the next morning, so we're like, okay, next 1560 01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:16,400 Speaker 1: morning comes. I dropped the two of them off there, 1561 01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:18,360 Speaker 1: and then I continued up the road to go to 1562 01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:22,120 Speaker 1: another spot. So I come back to get them and 1563 01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:24,720 Speaker 1: my and Brian says me, you're not gonna believe what 1564 01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:27,840 Speaker 1: happened this morning. I said, what he says, some guy 1565 01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:30,400 Speaker 1: came crashing out of his tree stand with his flashlight, 1566 01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:33,080 Speaker 1: got in your father's face, grabbed his grabbed him by 1567 01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:35,160 Speaker 1: the shirt, asked him what the app for you doing 1568 01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:37,639 Speaker 1: in here? Blah blah blah. You're ruining my whole hunt. 1569 01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:43,040 Speaker 1: And this is an hour before daylight. So and my 1570 01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:46,479 Speaker 1: father is like, what the heck, buddy. So my father 1571 01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:49,840 Speaker 1: just moves, you know, he moves his stand and he 1572 01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:54,519 Speaker 1: goes and he said, someplace else. So we didn't go 1573 01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:56,400 Speaker 1: back in there because we saw the guy's vehicle there. 1574 01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:58,280 Speaker 1: I know what his vehicle looks like now, So I 1575 01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:00,400 Speaker 1: could see it there the next few days and then 1576 01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:03,280 Speaker 1: it cleared out. So my father decided, well, I want 1577 01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:04,720 Speaker 1: to go back in there and hunt again. We'll see 1578 01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:07,479 Speaker 1: what happens because the area was fairly large. So he 1579 01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:10,000 Speaker 1: goes back in there and I told him, I said, 1580 01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:12,720 Speaker 1: when you're down in there, it's probably like five days later. 1581 01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:14,400 Speaker 1: I said, when you're down in there, get that trail 1582 01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:17,840 Speaker 1: camera for me and bring it, you know, bring it out. 1583 01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:20,400 Speaker 1: And he comes out of the car and said, you 1584 01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:22,840 Speaker 1: get my trail camera. He's like, uh, it's not there, 1585 01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:26,599 Speaker 1: So I know who took it. I mean there, there's 1586 01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:29,680 Speaker 1: no doubt about it. And it's like, you know, and 1587 01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:32,559 Speaker 1: then what we do is we have a term for 1588 01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:35,320 Speaker 1: those people, and we we just called them. When you 1589 01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:37,160 Speaker 1: pull into the parking lot and you have somebody like that, 1590 01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:41,799 Speaker 1: it's I hope we don't meet angry man today because 1591 01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:44,880 Speaker 1: you're you're going to get a lot further ahead if 1592 01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:47,960 Speaker 1: you're not angry. Man. Yeah, how do you deal with 1593 01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:50,000 Speaker 1: other hunters out there? I mean, I know some guys 1594 01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:53,600 Speaker 1: that like to, you know, just keep to yourself. I 1595 01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:55,600 Speaker 1: know some guys when they hunt public, they talked to 1596 01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:57,439 Speaker 1: everyone they see, and they kind of try say, Okay, 1597 01:21:57,479 --> 01:21:59,880 Speaker 1: I'm hunting here, you're hunting here, I'll try to daddy 1598 01:21:59,880 --> 01:22:01,120 Speaker 1: your hair. You know, how do you how do you 1599 01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:03,599 Speaker 1: try to manage those interactions to deal with that best? 1600 01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:08,000 Speaker 1: That's really difficult at times. It depends on the other person. 1601 01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:12,360 Speaker 1: To be honest, I'm I'm fairly quiet, but my father 1602 01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:14,439 Speaker 1: is like the mayor. He has to talk to everybody 1603 01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:19,679 Speaker 1: in town, so he he gets all the information we need. 1604 01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:22,559 Speaker 1: And I mean, I talk, but I don't. I don't 1605 01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:25,240 Speaker 1: go out of my way to talk. But if my 1606 01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:27,280 Speaker 1: father sees somebody at tree stand, he'll walk right over 1607 01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:28,880 Speaker 1: to him, talk to him, ask him how long they've 1608 01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:32,320 Speaker 1: hunted there, blah blah blah, you know where you're from. 1609 01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:35,040 Speaker 1: And he's made some really good friendships. Actually, we've made 1610 01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:38,439 Speaker 1: some really good friendships from doing that. But then when 1611 01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:41,160 Speaker 1: you get in the opposite situation, like what I just 1612 01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:43,560 Speaker 1: told you. Like this year, when I was in Colorado, 1613 01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:47,439 Speaker 1: we we one day we decided to hunt someplace different 1614 01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:49,920 Speaker 1: and we had to drive there on an old forest road. 1615 01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:52,439 Speaker 1: So we pulled off this forrest road and I had 1616 01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:54,840 Speaker 1: hunted there before, and I pulled down in there and 1617 01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,040 Speaker 1: there's a guy there and it's I don't know, it's 1618 01:22:57,080 --> 01:22:59,679 Speaker 1: like hour and a half before daylight, and he's standing 1619 01:22:59,720 --> 01:23:03,040 Speaker 1: next to his vehicle putting his socks on. So I 1620 01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:05,880 Speaker 1: pulled up and I said, I said, where are you 1621 01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:09,320 Speaker 1: gonna hunt today? And he's like, he starts swearing at me. 1622 01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:11,479 Speaker 1: He's like, you gotta be off and kidding me. Are 1623 01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:13,800 Speaker 1: you really going down in there? I said, it's a 1624 01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:16,200 Speaker 1: huge area in there. I said, I just want to 1625 01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:18,360 Speaker 1: know where you're hunting so I can make sure I 1626 01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:21,839 Speaker 1: can avoid you, because I'm really familiar with this mountain. 1627 01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:23,960 Speaker 1: And then he just teed off on me. And then 1628 01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:26,559 Speaker 1: finally he got in his vehicle, spun the tires in 1629 01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:29,720 Speaker 1: the dirt, and took off. And I'm like, and I 1630 01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:32,519 Speaker 1: said that, I said to Brian afterwards, because Brian, I'm like, 1631 01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:35,240 Speaker 1: was I in the wrong there? I mean, it's public 1632 01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:37,000 Speaker 1: land he doesn't own the land, and I said, I'm 1633 01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:39,240 Speaker 1: not going to interfere with his times. I'm going up 1634 01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:42,360 Speaker 1: with an entirely different drainage than wherever he says he's going. 1635 01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:44,680 Speaker 1: It's not he's not gonna hear me, not gonna see me. 1636 01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:47,559 Speaker 1: He's gonna have no idea where I am. Wow. So 1637 01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,920 Speaker 1: every person you deal with is different. It's just like 1638 01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:53,840 Speaker 1: daily life, like if you go to the grocery store. 1639 01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:57,000 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes your cashier is nice, sometimes she's not. 1640 01:23:57,960 --> 01:23:59,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it just depends on who the person is 1641 01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:04,719 Speaker 1: you're dealing with. So true. So back to your hunt. 1642 01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:07,880 Speaker 1: Back to one of these hunts. You're targeting lots of 1643 01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:11,360 Speaker 1: times thick cover with some you know in the cover 1644 01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:15,439 Speaker 1: type scrape areas, lots of different runways coming together. Are 1645 01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:17,960 Speaker 1: you also I mean it sounds like, I mean these 1646 01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:20,600 Speaker 1: types of areas probably are funnels of some type, But 1647 01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:24,000 Speaker 1: are you also keying in on like the traditional Midwestern 1648 01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:27,160 Speaker 1: type funnels to you know, where like the pinched timber 1649 01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:29,880 Speaker 1: between two fields or that kind of stuff, or you're 1650 01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:31,840 Speaker 1: trying to just is that kind of stuff the types 1651 01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:33,559 Speaker 1: of places where you see all these other guys in 1652 01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,040 Speaker 1: public and you're trying to get back off at that's 1653 01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:39,200 Speaker 1: exactly where I see all the other people. Like people 1654 01:24:39,280 --> 01:24:41,400 Speaker 1: like to read magazines and do exactly what it says 1655 01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:45,519 Speaker 1: in the magazine, which is conducive to hunting your own 1656 01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:49,000 Speaker 1: land or private land. Like it's it's funny because everybody says, 1657 01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:51,280 Speaker 1: if you'll if you read public land hunting, and you know, 1658 01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:53,000 Speaker 1: I'd be the first one to do this, to say, oh, 1659 01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:55,559 Speaker 1: get as far as way as you can. I've killed 1660 01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:58,000 Speaker 1: two of my biggest box. I could see the road 1661 01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:01,000 Speaker 1: and I could see people walk ng on the road, 1662 01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:04,800 Speaker 1: and uh and everybody said, oh, you can't kill big 1663 01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:07,360 Speaker 1: deer next to the road, and you most certainly can 1664 01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:10,880 Speaker 1: if you do it the right way. And uh so 1665 01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:15,360 Speaker 1: I kind of I don't know. I I use different tactics, 1666 01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:19,000 Speaker 1: but as far as that goes, like being next to 1667 01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:22,760 Speaker 1: the road and stuff like that, Um, if you can 1668 01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:24,400 Speaker 1: find a place where deer across the road, you can 1669 01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:27,760 Speaker 1: usually see their tracks in the dirt right there. Um, 1670 01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:29,880 Speaker 1: most people are going to be right next to a 1671 01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:32,960 Speaker 1: parking lot. And what I do is we'll do well, 1672 01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:35,479 Speaker 1: like what we call it, drop off, drop me off, 1673 01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,200 Speaker 1: and I'll run into the woods right there, and the 1674 01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:41,519 Speaker 1: one deer I killed. I was. I was about seventy 1675 01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:44,799 Speaker 1: five yards from the road down down into a gully, 1676 01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:46,800 Speaker 1: and I could see back up into the road like 1677 01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:50,320 Speaker 1: where where the road crusted, where people were walking up there. 1678 01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:53,559 Speaker 1: And I killed a really big ten point, like a 1679 01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:56,519 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty ten pointer, and I could at the 1680 01:25:56,560 --> 01:25:58,719 Speaker 1: time that I killed it, I could see three other 1681 01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:02,040 Speaker 1: people that we're hunting, but they were just standing on 1682 01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:06,760 Speaker 1: the road. That's awesome. Yeah, So I mean you you 1683 01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:10,240 Speaker 1: have to be a little bit creative and you have 1684 01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:14,479 Speaker 1: to be willing to take a chance. So yeah, how 1685 01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:19,080 Speaker 1: aggressive are you in other types of tactics like calling 1686 01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:22,360 Speaker 1: or sense or decoys or any of that kind of 1687 01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:24,800 Speaker 1: extra stuff. Do you do you fool around with anything 1688 01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:27,479 Speaker 1: like that? On these hunts, I usually sit in a 1689 01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:31,120 Speaker 1: tree and I'm pretty quiet because one thing that you're 1690 01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,040 Speaker 1: gonna get on public land, no matter where you go, 1691 01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:34,880 Speaker 1: you're going to hear the guy that's over there with 1692 01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:38,320 Speaker 1: his dear bleat and he doesn't stop all day. Like 1693 01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:40,759 Speaker 1: last year, I was hunting a piece of public ground. 1694 01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:44,080 Speaker 1: I climbed in the tree and it was a long walk. 1695 01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:46,839 Speaker 1: I got in there an hour and a half before daylight, 1696 01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:51,360 Speaker 1: and uh and I'm right next to a road by 1697 01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:53,840 Speaker 1: private property. I'm right on the border public road, but 1698 01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:57,160 Speaker 1: or public property and private property. But I can see 1699 01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:59,040 Speaker 1: the road, but I couldn't come in that way because 1700 01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:02,760 Speaker 1: it's private. So about a half hour before it gets light, 1701 01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:06,800 Speaker 1: I can see somebody coming so and they have a flashlight. 1702 01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:08,800 Speaker 1: I turned my flashlight. I'm in the tree and I'm 1703 01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:12,040 Speaker 1: in this row of pine trees. I flashed the light 1704 01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:15,280 Speaker 1: at him twice. And there's two people and they turn 1705 01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:17,080 Speaker 1: their light off, and I don't know what they're doing. 1706 01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:18,920 Speaker 1: I can't see him. It's dark. They're probably a hundred 1707 01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:21,400 Speaker 1: yards away. So then I see one light come on 1708 01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:24,800 Speaker 1: and it starts coming right to me. The guy comes over, 1709 01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:27,439 Speaker 1: climbs up a tree right next to me. He's twenty 1710 01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:30,080 Speaker 1: yards from me, but I can't see him because it's 1711 01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:33,599 Speaker 1: all pine trees. He gets in the tree, it's before 1712 01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:36,599 Speaker 1: it's even daylight, and he starts calling on his grunt call. 1713 01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:40,479 Speaker 1: Then he's rolling his bleak can or I'm like, oh 1714 01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:43,760 Speaker 1: my lord, and I'm I have a little bit of 1715 01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:47,879 Speaker 1: a temper sometimes. Okay, this went on until eleven o'clock, 1716 01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:51,200 Speaker 1: so I'm what is it's like five hours? Yeah, for 1717 01:27:51,360 --> 01:27:54,960 Speaker 1: or five hours and NonStop. It never it never went 1718 01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:59,000 Speaker 1: for more than uh like maybe fifteen minutes. So then 1719 01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:01,640 Speaker 1: finally I I and he knew I was there, but 1720 01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:03,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I've had off of this. So I 1721 01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:06,479 Speaker 1: coughed really loud, like you know, basically like the shut 1722 01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:11,280 Speaker 1: up cough, and then he's quiet. So then like another 1723 01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:13,720 Speaker 1: ten minutes he starts doing again. And then finally I'm 1724 01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:17,160 Speaker 1: texting my father. I'm like, this guy is driving me 1725 01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:21,360 Speaker 1: f and crazy. So then I couldn't handle and I 1726 01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:23,960 Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have done this, and I don't like admitting 1727 01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:25,680 Speaker 1: I did this, but all my buddies thought it was 1728 01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:28,920 Speaker 1: funny as hell. Finally I couldn't hell anymore, and I 1729 01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:35,360 Speaker 1: yelled shut the f up, and the guy. The guy's 1730 01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:37,760 Speaker 1: twenty yards from me. He climbs down the tree and 1731 01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:39,880 Speaker 1: he kind of like tiptoes out of there, back out 1732 01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:42,920 Speaker 1: through the private ground. And I felt really bad afterwards, 1733 01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:45,840 Speaker 1: but I just couldn't handle it anymore. You were you 1734 01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:50,280 Speaker 1: were the angman that I was. Yeah, so I decided 1735 01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:54,519 Speaker 1: I better not be angry man anymore. So so then anyhow, 1736 01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:57,559 Speaker 1: after the guy leaves, Okay, I had seen a few 1737 01:28:57,600 --> 01:28:59,880 Speaker 1: deer throughout the morning. They were filtering through the area 1738 01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:03,040 Speaker 1: was I was next to the CRP field and I 1739 01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:05,559 Speaker 1: could see deer out through there. Within a half hour 1740 01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:09,400 Speaker 1: of that guy leaving, Uh, bus just started filtering through there. 1741 01:29:09,479 --> 01:29:11,920 Speaker 1: And then I sat there for another hour or two 1742 01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:14,799 Speaker 1: and I saw nine different bucks, but I saw nothing 1743 01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:17,080 Speaker 1: the whole time he was doing that. It was almost 1744 01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:20,800 Speaker 1: like they knew that he left. Wow. Yeah, So that's 1745 01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:26,639 Speaker 1: my story of So speaking of setting up tree stands 1746 01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:28,200 Speaker 1: in the dark and stuff like like like that guy 1747 01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:30,400 Speaker 1: was doing and we climbed up next to you. What's 1748 01:29:30,439 --> 01:29:33,360 Speaker 1: your what's your tree stand set up? You know that 1749 01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:35,120 Speaker 1: you're using for these types of hunt because it sounds 1750 01:29:35,160 --> 01:29:36,680 Speaker 1: like you're moving around a lot and you're kind of 1751 01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:38,680 Speaker 1: setting up on the fly. What do you use? How 1752 01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:40,280 Speaker 1: do you go about doing that in a way that's 1753 01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:44,680 Speaker 1: not messing things up? I? Uh, what I do is 1754 01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:47,160 Speaker 1: no matter where I go, especially if it's a place 1755 01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:50,240 Speaker 1: I've hunted before, I'll find one place and if it, 1756 01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:53,479 Speaker 1: if you can, if it's allowable, I'll put a portable 1757 01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:55,479 Speaker 1: tree stand there and I'll leave it and that's gonna 1758 01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:56,960 Speaker 1: be the spot that I'm going to go back to. 1759 01:29:57,240 --> 01:30:00,840 Speaker 1: You know, fairly regularly. I'll visit it throughout the so 1760 01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:03,040 Speaker 1: I'll leave that there so I'll always have something to 1761 01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:04,920 Speaker 1: go to, you know, it'll be out of the way 1762 01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:06,519 Speaker 1: of other people, where I think is out of the 1763 01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:09,519 Speaker 1: way of other people. And then besides that, I carry 1764 01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:13,000 Speaker 1: a you know, lone wolf sit and climb tree stand 1765 01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:16,120 Speaker 1: and that's what I have on my back and I 1766 01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:18,240 Speaker 1: walk all over with it. When I'm walking through the 1767 01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:20,960 Speaker 1: woods doing the the exploring stuff like that. It's always 1768 01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:24,439 Speaker 1: on my back. So after a few weeks it gets 1769 01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:27,320 Speaker 1: a little bit heavy, but I mean it is what 1770 01:30:27,400 --> 01:30:29,320 Speaker 1: it is. And the only thing that really stinks is 1771 01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:32,719 Speaker 1: sometimes you can't you have to get in a tree 1772 01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:36,040 Speaker 1: instead of the right tree, and it can cost you, 1773 01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:38,400 Speaker 1: but I mean that's the price you pay, and you're 1774 01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:41,160 Speaker 1: on public land, so it's you know, you do what 1775 01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:44,360 Speaker 1: you can. Yeah, yeah, that's that's one of those tricks, 1776 01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:48,160 Speaker 1: is like figuring out the right balance between the right 1777 01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:52,000 Speaker 1: spot versus the right tree and all that. And I mean, 1778 01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:54,479 Speaker 1: how often do you fine tune on a public land 1779 01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:56,439 Speaker 1: hunt like this where you only have a handful a 1780 01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:58,960 Speaker 1: short handful of day? Is like, are you the type 1781 01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:01,400 Speaker 1: that you know you set your stand in this general area, 1782 01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:03,920 Speaker 1: and you like the general area, and you're just gonna 1783 01:31:04,160 --> 01:31:06,720 Speaker 1: put in your time there because eventually something will go right. 1784 01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:09,320 Speaker 1: Or do you tend to air on the side of 1785 01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:11,559 Speaker 1: you know, you hunt that first day and you see 1786 01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:14,000 Speaker 1: the bucks, you see it, you have a good encounter, 1787 01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:16,360 Speaker 1: but the bucks like seventy yards away or something. Are 1788 01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:18,559 Speaker 1: you gonna just hold it out there because eventually something 1789 01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:20,479 Speaker 1: will coming closer? Or do you like to move like 1790 01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:22,760 Speaker 1: right away, to get up close to where you're seeing 1791 01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:24,639 Speaker 1: the action and just keep on adjusting, even if it's 1792 01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:28,600 Speaker 1: only like thirty yards. Yeah, my father and I are 1793 01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:30,559 Speaker 1: a little bit different. Like last year, he was in 1794 01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:32,519 Speaker 1: this one area. He kept seeing this really big buck. 1795 01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:37,160 Speaker 1: He moved three consecutive days, and I told him to leave. 1796 01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:39,439 Speaker 1: I set the tree stand. He moved it three times. 1797 01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:43,680 Speaker 1: I said, leave it alone and sit sit where it is, okay. 1798 01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:46,040 Speaker 1: So then in the end he ended up getting a 1799 01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:47,840 Speaker 1: shot in. Of course I had the bad spot and 1800 01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:53,519 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But I'm I usually don't move a lot. 1801 01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:56,840 Speaker 1: If I if I sit someplace and deer filtering through there, 1802 01:31:56,880 --> 01:31:58,479 Speaker 1: and I'm and I know I'm in a good spot, 1803 01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:00,840 Speaker 1: like a place where a lot of things come together 1804 01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:04,519 Speaker 1: right there. I'll just wait it out, um, because it's 1805 01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:06,679 Speaker 1: not like I'm hunting in a field where I can see, Okay, 1806 01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:09,160 Speaker 1: they're coming into the field over there, they're coming through 1807 01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:12,519 Speaker 1: the hedgerow right there, So I'll kind of wait it out. 1808 01:32:12,800 --> 01:32:14,720 Speaker 1: And another thing is I don't usually stay in an 1809 01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:18,800 Speaker 1: area too long. I'll hunt there, like one morning. If 1810 01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:21,200 Speaker 1: I don't see any activity there, I'm usually out of there. 1811 01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:23,439 Speaker 1: And then if I go there and there's a lot 1812 01:32:23,479 --> 01:32:25,320 Speaker 1: of activity, i might sit there the next day and 1813 01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:28,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I'm done there. So I'll kind of 1814 01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:31,200 Speaker 1: move around a lot, and then like going into it, 1815 01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:33,160 Speaker 1: I'll end up like if I go back there in 1816 01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:35,800 Speaker 1: the future, if it was worth returning, I'll have a 1817 01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:39,080 Speaker 1: lot of spots to return to that I know are 1818 01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:43,080 Speaker 1: are pretty good spots. So that's one of the challenges 1819 01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:45,840 Speaker 1: I have during the rut, is when I find a 1820 01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:48,439 Speaker 1: spot that like should be a good rut spot, or 1821 01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:50,840 Speaker 1: maybe I even know historically it's a good rut spot. 1822 01:32:51,439 --> 01:32:53,840 Speaker 1: You know, there's something to be said for just putting 1823 01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:57,320 Speaker 1: your time in there right and eventually something will come through. 1824 01:32:57,720 --> 01:33:00,400 Speaker 1: But then there's always the the altar earned on the 1825 01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:02,600 Speaker 1: other side of the coin. That's if you're not in 1826 01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:04,880 Speaker 1: the action where it is right now, you could be 1827 01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:07,240 Speaker 1: missing at all. And so, like I always battle with 1828 01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:09,880 Speaker 1: this internal debate of do I just stick it out 1829 01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:11,719 Speaker 1: here long enough and you're here long enough, what happened? 1830 01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:14,360 Speaker 1: Or do I keep moving around until I find that 1831 01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:16,679 Speaker 1: you know the hot spot at that time of the year. 1832 01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:20,679 Speaker 1: How do you how do you make that decision yourself? 1833 01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:21,880 Speaker 1: I mean, how do you know when it's time to 1834 01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:24,599 Speaker 1: go versus one it's time to day. That's that's really 1835 01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,160 Speaker 1: that's really easy for me, and I always give people 1836 01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:30,639 Speaker 1: the same exact advice. Uh, I go with my gut. 1837 01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:34,160 Speaker 1: Whatever my gut tells me, That's exactly what I do. 1838 01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:37,720 Speaker 1: And sometimes it go it's against what my mind tells me. 1839 01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:40,240 Speaker 1: Like my mind tells me, like what you just said, 1840 01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:41,880 Speaker 1: this is a good rot spot, I really need to 1841 01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:45,840 Speaker 1: stick it out, But my gut says I can kill 1842 01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:49,360 Speaker 1: a deer around that creek crossing. Something inside me tells 1843 01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:51,960 Speaker 1: me that's the spot to go. I never second guess 1844 01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:55,559 Speaker 1: that that's where I'm going. So it's, uh, it's like 1845 01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:58,960 Speaker 1: I said earlier, I don't overanalyze my gut tells me 1846 01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:00,920 Speaker 1: to do this, and that's exact actually what I'm gonna do. 1847 01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:05,720 Speaker 1: I found myself slowly getting to that point a little more. 1848 01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:08,280 Speaker 1: I think it's something that comes with experience, I imagine 1849 01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:10,200 Speaker 1: for more and more people. And I think as I 1850 01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:13,200 Speaker 1: get more and more experienced, I start I'm beginning to 1851 01:34:13,200 --> 01:34:17,559 Speaker 1: have more faith in my gut. And to your point, 1852 01:34:17,640 --> 01:34:19,800 Speaker 1: I think when you start going that route, I think 1853 01:34:19,800 --> 01:34:22,200 Speaker 1: it's two things. One, your gut is probably right that 1854 01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:25,360 Speaker 1: that quote unquote gut instinct. It's just the accumulation of 1855 01:34:25,479 --> 01:34:27,920 Speaker 1: years and years and years of all this experience kind 1856 01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:31,439 Speaker 1: of informing you subconsciously of you know something. But I 1857 01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:34,439 Speaker 1: also think maybe I'm wrong on this, But when you 1858 01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:39,960 Speaker 1: go with a gut decision, you will inherently have more 1859 01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:42,120 Speaker 1: confidence in what you're doing. Then, because if you followed 1860 01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:43,559 Speaker 1: your gut and you're sitting in the spot where your 1861 01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:45,880 Speaker 1: gut told you you should be, you're gonna feel more 1862 01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:47,760 Speaker 1: confident about that hunt. And I think when you're more 1863 01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:50,559 Speaker 1: confident in where you're sitting in hunt, you're more alert, 1864 01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:54,240 Speaker 1: You're more ready to take advantage of whatever might actually happen. 1865 01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:55,880 Speaker 1: And so I think, I don't know maybe it's a 1866 01:34:55,920 --> 01:34:59,479 Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy sometimes where because you believe in it, 1867 01:34:59,479 --> 01:35:01,679 Speaker 1: because you try us to your gut, you actually can 1868 01:35:02,040 --> 01:35:04,120 Speaker 1: make something good happen. Maybe maybe it's just like two 1869 01:35:04,120 --> 01:35:07,080 Speaker 1: percent better chance. But I don't know. Maybe sometimes that's 1870 01:35:07,120 --> 01:35:11,599 Speaker 1: how it takes. That's exactly it. Like, uh, when when 1871 01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:14,719 Speaker 1: my gut tells me to do something, I'm like, I'm 1872 01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:17,479 Speaker 1: I don't know. I might be like a freaking nature, 1873 01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:20,400 Speaker 1: but like everything inside me tells me this is the morning. 1874 01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:23,280 Speaker 1: And if I go into the woods and I'm like 1875 01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:27,200 Speaker 1: I should have said over there, as soon as that 1876 01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:29,720 Speaker 1: thought comes in my head, I'll get out of the 1877 01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:31,640 Speaker 1: tree stand. I don't care if it's been daylight for 1878 01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:33,759 Speaker 1: a half hour, and I'll go to that other spot, 1879 01:35:35,240 --> 01:35:36,880 Speaker 1: Like I don't I don't waste any time. Like as 1880 01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:39,880 Speaker 1: soon as something tells me you shouldn't be here, I 1881 01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:42,680 Speaker 1: go to the other place. And that's something I think 1882 01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:45,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people struggle with. I think, especially on 1883 01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:48,639 Speaker 1: these short trips like that, it's so easy to stay 1884 01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:52,000 Speaker 1: put right. I mean, it's that's the easy the easy out. 1885 01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:55,479 Speaker 1: But I gotta believe that when you I mean, and 1886 01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:57,880 Speaker 1: I've every year I'm in stimlar situation. But when you 1887 01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:00,000 Speaker 1: only have seven days or five days or ten days 1888 01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:02,719 Speaker 1: or whatever to get it done, right, I mean you can't. 1889 01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:07,120 Speaker 1: You can't miss those opportunities. You have to go for it. Yeah, 1890 01:36:07,200 --> 01:36:09,559 Speaker 1: it's I mean you're gonna come up empty handed now 1891 01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:13,680 Speaker 1: and then. But I mean, if you keep gaining experience, 1892 01:36:14,200 --> 01:36:17,439 Speaker 1: then you're gonna learn the places to avoid and the 1893 01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:21,480 Speaker 1: places to go, and like years and years of experience. 1894 01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:24,639 Speaker 1: Like I can look at something and say I don't 1895 01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:27,040 Speaker 1: know about that, and then I put my father there. 1896 01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:29,080 Speaker 1: That's the just in case spot, just in case he 1897 01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:32,800 Speaker 1: might see something there, and uh, then I go to 1898 01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:39,479 Speaker 1: the good spot man how to hunt, and that's what 1899 01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:42,599 Speaker 1: he gets. Now. It's funny, though, we will share stands. 1900 01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:45,960 Speaker 1: Like one year he sat in this stand for five 1901 01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:48,200 Speaker 1: straight days. There was there were a big buck. There 1902 01:36:48,240 --> 01:36:50,280 Speaker 1: was a big buck chasing a dough on the opposite 1903 01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:53,240 Speaker 1: ridge and he could see it, but it would never 1904 01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:55,439 Speaker 1: come down across the ridge over on to his side. 1905 01:36:55,439 --> 01:36:57,719 Speaker 1: And it was over there every day, and he didn't 1906 01:36:57,720 --> 01:36:59,599 Speaker 1: want to move over to that other side. So finally 1907 01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:01,680 Speaker 1: he said of me, says, you come over and sit 1908 01:37:01,800 --> 01:37:03,760 Speaker 1: in my stand, and I'm gonna go down to the 1909 01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:06,040 Speaker 1: bottom of the hill and that thing's gonna come off 1910 01:37:06,080 --> 01:37:09,040 Speaker 1: there someplace. So I'm like, okay, and I've been hunting 1911 01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:11,240 Speaker 1: somebody's else. I went over there, I climbed up sad 1912 01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:14,519 Speaker 1: in the stand. It's a daylight, it got daylight. I'm 1913 01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:17,519 Speaker 1: there for half hour, and at that point I shot 1914 01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:19,880 Speaker 1: the biggest buck that either one of us had ever shot. 1915 01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:22,599 Speaker 1: So whenever he looks at he says, yeah, that's my dear. 1916 01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:26,120 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, but I shot it. Oh man, That's 1917 01:37:26,160 --> 01:37:30,080 Speaker 1: how it goes sometimes. So so we have got to 1918 01:37:30,160 --> 01:37:32,559 Speaker 1: wrap wrap things up, Todd. But I want to get 1919 01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:35,599 Speaker 1: one final thought for me. I guess if you could 1920 01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:40,240 Speaker 1: offer one final piece of advice or one final concept 1921 01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:42,200 Speaker 1: that someone needs to wrap their head around that we 1922 01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:44,880 Speaker 1: haven't talked yet about when it comes to hunting this 1923 01:37:45,000 --> 01:37:51,599 Speaker 1: type of scenario, what would that final wisdom be? Oh, shoe, 1924 01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:55,360 Speaker 1: I have like a zillion things. Um, you can pick 1925 01:37:55,360 --> 01:38:00,320 Speaker 1: any of the zillion. I'll probably get crucified for this, 1926 01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:03,040 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna tell you, don't pay attention to the 1927 01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:07,479 Speaker 1: wind h and don't listen to all the moon and stuff. 1928 01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:10,559 Speaker 1: If you have vacation and you didn't know it when 1929 01:38:10,600 --> 01:38:13,080 Speaker 1: you picked it, and it's during the full moon. I've 1930 01:38:13,160 --> 01:38:15,960 Speaker 1: killed just as many deer in the full moon or 1931 01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:19,880 Speaker 1: half moon, uh as I have any other time. Um. 1932 01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:25,240 Speaker 1: I think a lot of public hunting land, um, dear 1933 01:38:25,439 --> 01:38:28,719 Speaker 1: deer used to you know, surviving. They have to survive. 1934 01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:30,640 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I think a lot of 1935 01:38:30,680 --> 01:38:34,920 Speaker 1: public land has less pressure than private land, as long 1936 01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:37,840 Speaker 1: as you find the right pieces of public land. And 1937 01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:41,000 Speaker 1: what I mean by the wind the wind thing is 1938 01:38:41,080 --> 01:38:44,640 Speaker 1: if you're hunting in in places where you know they 1939 01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:48,360 Speaker 1: are they're wooded, like big mountains like right hunt Adirondacks 1940 01:38:48,439 --> 01:38:50,000 Speaker 1: or in the Midwest where I look for the big 1941 01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:54,559 Speaker 1: timbered patches. Uh. When you set up like there might 1942 01:38:54,600 --> 01:38:57,280 Speaker 1: be those four five runways I was talking about. When 1943 01:38:57,320 --> 01:38:59,960 Speaker 1: you set up there, I mean you might have an 1944 01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:02,639 Speaker 1: idea where you think the deer coming from. But most 1945 01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:05,760 Speaker 1: people take their vacation during the rut in the deer 1946 01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:09,639 Speaker 1: tend to run wild then and they'll come from every 1947 01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:12,760 Speaker 1: direction in the woods. So don't get up in the 1948 01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:15,400 Speaker 1: morning and say, oh, I just that's a really good spot, 1949 01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:17,160 Speaker 1: but I just can't hunt there because of the wind. 1950 01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:22,080 Speaker 1: Because the wind does funny things. Um. I've been in 1951 01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:24,200 Speaker 1: a stand where I knew the wind was bad, like 1952 01:39:24,280 --> 01:39:27,160 Speaker 1: what the wind said on the on the weather app 1953 01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:30,320 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, bad wind, bad wind, because it's 1954 01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:32,320 Speaker 1: blowing up into that field. I'm on the edge of 1955 01:39:32,360 --> 01:39:34,799 Speaker 1: the field. But at the same time, I had hunted 1956 01:39:34,800 --> 01:39:36,600 Speaker 1: it enough to know that when the wind was in 1957 01:39:36,680 --> 01:39:41,120 Speaker 1: that direction, it blew up and over the field. So 1958 01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:43,599 Speaker 1: too many people, when they look at the wind report, 1959 01:39:44,040 --> 01:39:46,560 Speaker 1: they think they know exactly what the wind is gonna do, 1960 01:39:47,479 --> 01:39:50,080 Speaker 1: which they do, but they don't know exactly how that 1961 01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:54,120 Speaker 1: that wind reacts in the area that they hunt. So 1962 01:39:54,680 --> 01:39:57,920 Speaker 1: I mean, pay attention, but don't let that ruin your hunt. 1963 01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:00,400 Speaker 1: I think there's something to be said to you know 1964 01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:02,160 Speaker 1: what you were just saying, Like, when you have such 1965 01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:05,800 Speaker 1: a short time span to hunt this area, sometimes you 1966 01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:08,800 Speaker 1: do have to push all the chips in on the 1967 01:40:08,920 --> 01:40:11,120 Speaker 1: right spot. If everything else is right, but the winds 1968 01:40:11,160 --> 01:40:14,400 Speaker 1: a little wrong, you know, it's either you don't hunt 1969 01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:16,720 Speaker 1: the good spot and you never know, or you do 1970 01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:20,400 Speaker 1: throw a hail Mary and you know you're never gonna 1971 01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:22,240 Speaker 1: catch that touchdown if you don't fill the hall marry 1972 01:40:22,280 --> 01:40:26,120 Speaker 1: once in a while exactly. So that's very very interesting 1973 01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:28,840 Speaker 1: thought there, and makes a lot of people. People can 1974 01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:33,760 Speaker 1: crucify me now, I'm sure, I'm sure you'll I'm sure 1975 01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:36,160 Speaker 1: it'll be alright, Todd. So this has been super This 1976 01:40:36,280 --> 01:40:40,360 Speaker 1: has been super interesting. I I enjoy these types of 1977 01:40:40,560 --> 01:40:43,439 Speaker 1: talks where it's it's something that's applicable in lots of 1978 01:40:43,439 --> 01:40:45,360 Speaker 1: different situations. It sounds a lot of things you're doing. 1979 01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:47,760 Speaker 1: They can work all over the country, whether you be 1980 01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:54,000 Speaker 1: in Indiana or Kansas, or Pennsylvania or Vermont or Michigan. Um, 1981 01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:55,920 Speaker 1: I think there's something we can all take away from this. 1982 01:40:56,120 --> 01:40:59,719 Speaker 1: So so thank you, Todd. And if anyone listening wants 1983 01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:01,840 Speaker 1: to check out your books or anything else you've got 1984 01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:04,800 Speaker 1: going on, is there anywhere they can find that online? Oh? Sure, 1985 01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:07,880 Speaker 1: I have a couple of different websites. Uh. My my 1986 01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:12,000 Speaker 1: main website is just my name, Todd Mead dot com. 1987 01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:15,920 Speaker 1: Then I have another website it's called a d K 1988 01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:20,880 Speaker 1: trail cam dot com, which is uh, it's basically a 1989 01:41:20,920 --> 01:41:25,120 Speaker 1: bunch of trailcam pictures from the adderandex And Uh, you 1990 01:41:25,200 --> 01:41:27,160 Speaker 1: can find me on Facebook. I'm on there. It's just 1991 01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:30,000 Speaker 1: my regular name. I don't know what my profile picture 1992 01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:31,760 Speaker 1: is right now. It might be an ELK or something 1993 01:41:31,840 --> 01:41:33,960 Speaker 1: on there. Since there are a number of me in 1994 01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:37,559 Speaker 1: the United States, I got you're probably the only time 1995 01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:40,400 Speaker 1: made standing in the mountains though, yeah, something like that. 1996 01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:43,560 Speaker 1: I hope I am awesome. Well, Todd, thank you so 1997 01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:46,639 Speaker 1: much for joining us and for sharing all this insight 1998 01:41:46,720 --> 01:41:50,080 Speaker 1: and expertise. And as we kind of alluded to earlier, 1999 01:41:50,160 --> 01:41:52,479 Speaker 1: two people should look for um a little bit more 2000 01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:56,000 Speaker 1: from you and some upcoming issues of the magazine, right 2001 01:41:56,920 --> 01:42:00,960 Speaker 1: ah yeah, hopefully, yeah, hopefully the author made me look good. 2002 01:42:02,040 --> 01:42:04,200 Speaker 1: That guy's a real piece of work from what I understand. 2003 01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:09,639 Speaker 1: Borrowing some unfortunate surprise, I think there'll be an interesting 2004 01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:12,560 Speaker 1: story written by me featuring some cool stuff from you 2005 01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:14,160 Speaker 1: and some other guys, So keep anye out for that 2006 01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:18,800 Speaker 1: in a future issue Outdoor Life. And that said, Todd, 2007 01:42:18,880 --> 01:42:20,600 Speaker 1: I guess good luck to rest of the season, and 2008 01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:23,240 Speaker 1: uh and please stay in touch, all right, thanks a lot, 2009 01:42:23,400 --> 01:42:25,760 Speaker 1: and good luck to you and your friends. Thank you, 2010 01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:28,840 Speaker 1: and with that we will wrap this one up. But 2011 01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:31,360 Speaker 1: before we go, we need to thank our partners who 2012 01:42:31,439 --> 01:42:35,200 Speaker 1: have helped make this podcast possible so big thanks to 2013 01:42:35,439 --> 01:42:39,840 Speaker 1: Sick of Gear, Redneck Blinds, Hunter, a Maps, Yetty Cooler's Ozonics, 2014 01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:43,320 Speaker 1: Carbon Express Mayben Optics and the White Tail Institute of 2015 01:42:43,439 --> 01:42:45,640 Speaker 1: North America, and like I mentioned last week, give these 2016 01:42:45,640 --> 01:42:47,640 Speaker 1: guys a shout if you appreciate them helping out with 2017 01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:49,800 Speaker 1: this podcast, or if you end up trying some of 2018 01:42:49,840 --> 01:42:51,880 Speaker 1: their stuff out, let us know we'd love to hear 2019 01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:55,439 Speaker 1: about your experiences. And with all that said, thank you 2020 01:42:55,560 --> 01:42:57,560 Speaker 1: all for tuning in today. I hope you enjoyed this 2021 01:42:57,680 --> 01:43:01,280 Speaker 1: conversation with Todd. Good luck in the wools, and as always, 2022 01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:05,400 Speaker 1: stay wired to Hunt m