WEBVTT - Some Turbulence Ahead 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:06.439 He Suck Dating with Dengler Dared Haven I heard radio podcast. 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.160 Hello everyone, welcome back to help I Suck at Dating. 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.480 My name is Jared Haven, always joined by Dean Angler. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:18.159 We're both on the same coast now, so we're not 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:20.639 three thousand miles away, but we're still doing this virtually 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.400 because you know, uh, the pandemic um And usually we 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.040 have an intro with the show, uh where Dena and 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:32.000 I kinda just talk nonsensical things. But we're gonna talk 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.240 very sensical things because we have a great guest who's 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.240 actually joining us right off the top. She's a writer, 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.360 she's a director, she's an actress. She's an author of 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:45.159 the novel Eat Pray hashtag f m L, which is 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:48.199 a great title. Gabrielle Stone Grab Gabrielle, thank you so 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.599 much for joining us. Thanks for having me, guys. I'm 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:54.400 happy to be here during the pandemic virtually. How's this 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:58.080 pandemic going for you? How you do? And you know, like, 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.760 I'm I'm safe and I'm healthy, so I can't complain. 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.120 But it's definitely the weight of what the world's going 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.640 through is weighing on me for sure. What part of 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.840 the country are you in I'm in l A okay, 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.080 well figures obviously with your occupation, right I wish I 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.360 could be. I wish I could be elsewhere and traveling 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.640 right now, but this is home. But like I said, 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.000 you're you're an author, you're a writer, director. You wrote 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.559 a novel last year called Eat Pray hashtag f mL, 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.840 which obviously is my life, which is a playoff of 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.240 E Pray Love. So can you just talk about your 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.040 book a little bit now? I know one of the 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.039 reasons why you started writing it, or at least what 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:37.200 I read online, but I'd love to hear from you personally, 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:39.800 your story as to why you felt compelled to write 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.560 this novel. Yeah, totally, um I think that's kind of 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:47.160 happened to me. Um In. I was married for almost 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.720 two years, found out my husband was having an affair 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.440 with a nineteen year old for six months, filed for divorce. Left. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.280 Shortly after that, I met a guy. We fell madly 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.920 in love with each other, had a whirlwind romance, and 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:00.920 he convinced me to go on a month long trip 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.760 to Italy with him. Forty eight hours before we were 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.960 getting on the plane, he told me he needed to 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.760 go by himself, and I was freaking devastated, broke my 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.640 heart like my husband never could have. But I had 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:14.320 a decision to make, and that was either stay at 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.680 home and be heartbroken or go travel Europe for a 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.840 month by myself. So I went and took a backpack 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:22.000 and did six countries over the span of a month 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.840 and wrote a book about it. Did you ever say 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.920 why he couldn't go with you? Yeah, oh dude, it's 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.079 I mean, it's a long saga of of drama. But 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:36.600 he was still grieving over the death of his brother. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.760 Um that had happened like a little over a year earlier. 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.320 And um, I think when he fell in love with 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:45.960 me it kind of like opened up all that that 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.560 he had pushed really far down. And you know, but 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.240 I mean, give me your take on it as a man, 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.040 Like was it a total cop out or was there 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.440 some validity to it? I mean, I don't know if 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.040 I could really speak upon it, because you know, I 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.280 to lose a brother, Uh, that's you know. I don't know. 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.160 I don't know if I'd be able to relate or like, 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.240 uh talk about it with any type of knowledge. But 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.000 I'm still glad you're able to travel by yourself. So 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.760 what was the traveling by yourself? Uh? What did you learn? 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.880 Uh not only about yourself but about dating relationships? Yeah? 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.880 So much? Um So when I realized I was taking 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.360 this trip by myself, one of my biggest fears since 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.799 I was a little girl is being alone and being 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.720 okay by myself. My dad passed when I was young, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.960 um and since then, I've had a lot of abandonment 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.800 issues and this was the universe is kind of clear 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.480 way of making me go face that head on and 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.120 really deal with it. Um. So this trip really taught 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:47.920 me that I'm never really alone, um because I'll never 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:51.760 abandon myself. And that was a huge, huge, like spiritual 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:56.000 journey lesson for me and just how capable I am. Like. 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.280 I had such an incredible time on this trip, and 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.240 I learned so much about my elf, um so much 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.080 about the other people that I met. I met some 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.000 incredible people and uh some that I still keep in 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.240 touch with until this day. And it was a really 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.160 life changing experience. I came back from Europe a different 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.720 human and all the best ways. All right, I've got 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.600 some questions for you, so and not to go back 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.760 and reopen any old wounds. But I talking about this 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.920 every week. There's no and that's why I feel comfortable 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.520 asking these questions. Okay, So so I'll get to the 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.479 whole one month relationship and the guy leaving you fort 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.960 eight hours before the flight to Europe thing. But just 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.960 to backtrack even further, so you were married for two 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.000 years and you found out that your husband at the 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.400 time was having an affair within eighteen year nineteen year 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:46.680 olds for six months. So just add my own curiosity, 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.280 how did you find that out? What? What? How did 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.000 that whole thing unfold? So I missed my calling as 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:57.360 a private detective. Um I actually didn't even go looking 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:01.400 for it at first. We had been having issues for 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.159 you know, five or six months, and um, I didn't 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.400 realize why we were in therapy. I was working my 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:09.560 ass off to try and like get us back on 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:14.160 track and couldn't figure out why everything wasn't working when 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.000 I was doing everything that our therapist was, everything that 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.719 he was asking. Um And eventually it came to a 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.640 head where and this is all like detailed in the book, 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.840 which I wasn't planning on originally writing about. But all 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:30.440 my girlfriends were like, no, dude, it was like an 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.160 episode of c S. I you have to write about this. UM. 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.520 So one night we were at our house and I 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.599 was putting away laundry and I went over to a 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.719 soft drawer and put opened it up to put a 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:43.760 bunch of socks in, and there was a phone in there, 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.159 and I was like, why is your phone in your 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.560 soft drawer? And the second I picked it up, a 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.680 text popped up that had her name with a heart 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.279 emoji in the contact and he came over and like 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.760 snatched it from me, went into the bathroom, came out 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:01.920 like forty five seconds later and was like, here, it's 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.919 not even working, just take my phone. Unbeknownst to me, 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.120 he went in with his second phone, came out and 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:12.720 like handed me his original first phone. UM. And so 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.839 then after that he went on a trip for work, 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:19.000 and I started kind of knowing something was going on. 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:23.040 And I was in our office and his computer, UM 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:24.680 was up. We had he had like one of those 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.719 big imax and paying on his email came in and 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:30.440 I went over and looked at it and it was 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.760 an Uber receipt that was from the city he was 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.560 supposed to be into somewhere that was like two hours away. 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:38.400 And that was kind of all I needed to like 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:40.560 be like, Okay, I'm I'm going to look through his 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:45.240 email at this point, um, and every like hotel receipt, 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:50.080 like couple's massage, dinner reservations. It was all there, and 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.000 I was like, okay, well here we go divorced time 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.000 and then and then you confronted him about it. Obviously 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.280 I did when he got home. So I knew for 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.640 for two weeks before I've served him the papers because 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.120 I didn't want him to get wind of it and 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.200 filed before me. Um. And mind you, during all this, 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.080 like we were my friend and I were investigating and 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.080 finding out who this other girl was UM, which I 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.880 did by calling the Four Seasons and telling them that 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:19.760 we have used a fake name and I was doing 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.040 taxes and could you give me the name that the 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.200 reservation was under? And then we found her online. It 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:28.720 was like way too easy and uh and then yeah, 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.520 when he came home, we had a process server at 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.840 my house and served in the papers and sat down 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.200 and had one last conversation. I walked out of the 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.080 house and never looked back. And do you guys talk 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:41.400 to this day or is it kind of one of 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.080 those things that's in the past year. And no, I 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.680 mean I've run into him and his girlfriend. There's as 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.480 far as I know, they're still together. This was like 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.120 a year ago. I ran into both the gym and 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:54.720 it was an interesting conversation. I can only imagine. Okay, 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.080 and then fast forward from there. So you are divorced 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.720 now and then you meet this guy I would assume 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.800 in So Angeles. Yeah, technically I wasn't divorced yet. Um 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.760 that the whole process, yeah, you know, I mean it 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.840 was clear on what was happening, but the actual process 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.200 takes like a year. Um. So I had left the house, 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.840 mind you, I had known about the affair for two 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.920 weeks now, So I leave and about three weeks later 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.120 I reconnected with this guy who I had casually, like 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.840 super casually dated, um before I had even met my 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.080 ex husband, which was like six years ago. And he 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.439 d m me on Instagram and we started talking and 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.120 he was like, you want to go hang out and 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.720 go to the beach and I was like sure, um, 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.680 thinking you know, if I'm gonna like go casually have 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.240 fun with someone, this was the one person I've ever 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.360 been able to be casual with. And he was hot 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.640 and he's you know, um, so I went, yeah, I went, 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.360 and um, it just went from zero to one hundred 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.920 really fast. Do you think that might have been the 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:02.000 ultimate downfall of why the because because you said earlier 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.360 like dig into this and figure out why he might 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.240 have or you know what, the whole like brother passing 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:09.120 away thing might be legit And obviously, you know you 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:10.839 can't really judge someone else on how they're going to 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.600 react with death or or loss, or you think that, 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:15.640 but do you ever do you ever think that the 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.160 fact that it became so hot and heavy so fast 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.079 might have something to do with it? And so um, 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.720 but I also think that, No, I don't think. I 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.920 know that he had a ton of healing to do 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.360 around that, and I know why I had to take 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.720 this trip by myself and how it changed my life. 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.640 So I think we really came into each other's lives 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.600 and we were both the catalyst of some serious soul healing. 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:45.520 Um and uh so yeah, I think it. It was 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.559 extremely insane. I mean I remember my mom and all 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.760 my friends being like, I'm sorry, you just got out 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.960 of a marriage, like a brutally shocking divorce marriage, and 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.760 you're like hopping into this relationship and we were like 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.240 we're having babies. Were like, we're done, We're getting married. 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.679 This is it, this is my person. Oh yeah, I 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.560 met his whole family, like would tell all of his 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:10.880 friends about me. It was like really serious and intense. Um. 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.319 And So to have that go from like this level too, 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:17.520 I think I need to go on this trip but 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.400 myself and break up with you, um was. I mean 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.760 it was more devastating than my divorce was. Do you 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.360 ever think about revisiting that relationship? Maybe it was time? Yeah, 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.160 how does it? Because that doesn't just end right, Like 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.840 you guys still have phones to texts. You're in the 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:36.679 same country at least when you land might um. So 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:41.360 we actually flew on the plane together, sitting with each other. 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.320 Our tickets were from l A to London and then 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.200 we were supposed to go on to Rome. So I 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.480 have a friend in London that I went to high 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.800 school with, so she was like, look, just come here, 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.000 you can start your trip here before you decide where 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.319 you want to go. So we flew to London together. 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.120 I stayed in London, he went on to Rome and 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.439 then like the a roller coaster of you know, are 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:04.000 we gonna see each other? Are we not going to 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:05.760 see each other? Should we meet up at the end 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.400 of the trip? Like do you even still have feelings 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:12.719 for me? Um? Goes throughout the entire book. UM. And 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:14.559 I don't want to like say if we did or not, 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.600 because it will totally ruin the ending for some people 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:20.400 that eventually read it. Um. But yeah, I mean it's 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.080 let's just say. That's the biggest question I get is 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.040 like is there going to be a book too? And 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.840 is he involved in it? Because it was so open ended. 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:32.319 So okay, So for the listener out there that might 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.760 not know this, a flight from l A to London 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.439 is about twelve hours long. So you had just broken 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:40.480 up with this guy and then you sit next to 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.199 him for twelve hours on a flight. Yeah, what is that? 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.360 What is that? Like? You know, I get that question 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.360 a lot and people are like didn't why didn't you 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.640 change your ticket? Was it refundable? And Um? To be honest, 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:56.719 for whatever reason, everything between us was totally normal and 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.800 the same. We just weren't kissing and holding hands. I mean, 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.000 I was obviously like devastated in my heart was broken, 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.880 but other than that, we were kind of like just 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:11.480 transitioned into this friendship. Um that that kind of was okay. 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.520 Uh so it wasn't like this weird awkward plane ride. Um. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:17.920 He took the picture of me with my backpack on 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.679 where I posted at the airport and was like, hey, everybody, 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.400 I got divorced and I'm going to Europe and like, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:23.960 here's what's been going on in my life that I've 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:28.800 been talking about. Um, And it was really weirdly normal. Um. 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.640 It kind of got harder once I was in Europe 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:35.040 and on my trip, and I felt like at part 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.160 at times he just disappeared and wasn't supporting me after 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.600 I had been sent off on this journey. I didn't 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.839 really ask for um. But the flight itself was kind 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.800 of weirdly okay. And our return to our return tickets 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.679 were booked together to oh my what you said? You 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.120 didn't want to spoil that, and so but we did slide. 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.280 We did slide back together because that's that's how the 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:56.720 tickets were booked. So do you think that normalcy, that 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.440 that established normalcy is makes it harder or easier, Because 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.719 it's like that you can have both arguments where oh 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:04.600 it's easy to get back into being friends with this 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.160 person because that's just who we are, or it's like, oh, 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.079 things were so great between us and the chemistry was 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:10.640 there that we were able to stay friends through it all. 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.200 Do you think that made it easier or harder for you? Um? 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.600 I think harder for me because it wasn't my decision 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:20.000 and I didn't like. He was so like you've changed 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.280 my life and like I never don't want to have 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:23.960 you in my life, like you have to be my 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.520 best friend. And I was like, well, I wasn't really 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.760 looking for a best friend like I have my friends. Um, 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.000 I was in love with you. So it was this 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:35.040 weird kind of like he was asking me to flip 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.000 this switch that had gone off in him, and I 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:41.080 was like, dude, I'm not really capable of doing that. Um, 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.360 but he meant so much to me and we had 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.200 gotten so close during that month and a half that 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.520 I was trying to force myself to do that. You know. 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.839 So when I picture Europe, right, so you get to Europe. 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.160 You said you're in Europe for a month. When I 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.440 picture Europe, I think of like that movie Eurotrip where 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.120 you're going to clubs, you're drinking, absent your party in 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.880 your backpack and you're exploring, you're staying at hostiles, your 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:07.679 your hitchhiking to get from place to place. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.200 So and I'm sure in your book you chronicle some 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.520 of these crazy adventures that you might have had, right, 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.600 But what is that kind of like the vibe that 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.480 it was or was it totally like soul searching? Like no, 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.640 I mean, well, okay, So for the phone away thing, 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.560 I was originally going to be like I'm gonna, you know, 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:28.240 really disconnect and like go and just be in the moment. 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.560 And when I posted that picture and like wrote about 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.640 my divorce and like that I was going off on 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.000 this trip by myself, hundreds and hundreds of people reached 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:38.720 out to me and we're like, oh my god, this 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.920 changed my whole day, Like please keep sharing your journey, 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.000 like I want to follow this with you. So I 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.240 ended up really posting quite a bit on that trip, 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.880 which now I'm really thankful for because every day when 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.479 people are reading the book, they're like stoking my Instagram 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.120 and like, oh my god, this is that place that 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:55.880 she was talking about. So it's kind of like this 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.440 cool interactive thing. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I had 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.720 a one night's and in in Amsterdam. I like, there was 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:05.240 lots of guys on my trip. I all I knew 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:09.760 about hostels, which you'll probably appreciate because you're a travel guy, right. Um. 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.200 All I knew about hostiles on the plane over was 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.640 that there was a movie and people got brutally murdered 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.000 in it. Like I was like, what do you mean 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.240 of those to stay in a hostile Um. Now I'm 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.160 like the number one advocate for them and love them 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:23.680 and tell all my friends like, if you're ever going 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.760 to travel, stay in hospitals and go by yourself. Um. 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.320 But it Yeah, So there was a lot of partying, 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.080 a lot of not sleeping, a lot of drinking. Um. 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:35.760 But there was also a lot of you know, soul 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.600 searching and reflecting. I wrote three fourths of this book 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.320 on my trip, so there were a lot of days 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.320 where I was in a cafe just like writing for 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.680 six hours. So it was kind of like both kind 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.880 of mixed together. Nice not to spoil the end of 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.040 the book, but do you think after friends crossed that 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.000 line of being intimate with one another, can you ever 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.680 go back to being friends? Mm hmmm, that's a good question. Um, 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.640 I've had other situations that pertain to that. This one 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.520 is kind of different because we never started as friends, 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.880 like we went and hung out and we're like, oh, 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:16.240 we're gonna we're gonna do this. Um. But on the 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:21.120 other side of it, it's it's hard to backtrack when 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:26.240 you've established a relationship that's based on intimacy and like chemistry, 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.240 it's hard to backtrack and be like, Okay, let's just 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.560 be friends now. UM. I think it's doable if both 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.480 people really want to commit to that, and I think 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.840 it takes some work, um, but it's definitely not easy 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.400 in my opinion. You sound, uh, you said exactly like 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.320 one of my former girlfriends. I remember we broke up 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:45.920 and I was like, well, yeah, we can still obviously 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:47.600 be friends, right, And she goes, well, we were never 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.120 friends to begin with, Like we basically started out dating 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:51.600 each other, so how do you expect us to be 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.200 friends now? And you basically said the exact same thing 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:55.720 that she said. It's it's funny and and there's a 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:57.360 lot of truth to it too. I agree with it, 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.760 but it's tough because I have excess that I mean 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.080 is from a long time ago, like college years that 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.679 I'm friends with not I mean, like we don't go 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.159 hang out on the regular, but we're friends and we 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.760 talk and you know, we're we're good in each other. 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.520 There's lives. But yeah, it's it's a difficult. It's a 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.160 difficult thing to navigate, especially when not both people feel 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:20.679 the same way, and it's usually unless two people are 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.920 like mutually breaking up, which is kind of rare um. 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:28.040 I think it's a hard, hard road to navigate, especially 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.120 when there's another significant other in play, because then you, yeah, 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:32.640 I want to be honest, be like, well, we did 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.200 hook up, but that will never happen again. And then 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:36.879 like the idea have you hanging out with somebody that 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:38.760 used to hook up with That always throws a wrench 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.639 in things. It's super weird, and it it takes a 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.920 really secure woman or man to be like, yeah, that's 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.359 totally fine. You know, it's it's a weird dynamic for sure. 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:53.119 I mean, you guys probably have have some weird experience 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:56.119 with that since you guys started a Bachelor, which I 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.560 have to like, I have to admit, like, I that's 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:04.560 my guilt the pleasure reality TV. So I yeah, well, 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.200 so so you've seen Bachelor, you know, what's up. It's 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.439 just like I think we all accept the fact that, like, 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.800 hey listen, this is what we all signed up for, 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.639 so we have to kind of overlook some things and 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:20.480 just accept that, you know, like for example, exactly like 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.800 I was on Caitlin Bristow season and like we had 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:28.000 a good relationship, but we've become friends afterwards, and Ashley 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:29.520 and my wife is super cool with it now to 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:31.960 the point where Caitlin and her now boyfriend Jason were 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.359 at our wedding. You know, oh that's great. Yeah it 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.280 was cool. Um, that just means you have a badass 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.480 wife too, so oh yeah, she's both bad as you 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.280 can see, Like I'm currently recording in her glam room, 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:46.840 so she like it just shows my my place in 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:51.760 the relationship. And So if if you could tell your 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.240 the audience one thing that you'd really want them to 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.560 take away from reading your book, what would it be 0:18:57.640 --> 0:18:59.520 That there is a light at the end of the tunnel, 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:01.480 no matter how dark it may look, and it is 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.560 usually more beautiful than you could ever imagine. So keep 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.800 going travel. What about travel? I think that seems like 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:11.480 a big yeah for sure. I mean I think everyone 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.240 should solo travel at least once in their life. It 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.560 totally changed my life. Um. I just did my second 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:21.719 solo trip by choice, this time UM to Southeast Asia, 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:26.560 and it was it was incredible. Um, And I if 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:28.879 I had a choice now, I would prefer to travel 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.280 alone as opposed to with friends or family. UM. It's 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:35.560 you just like it's so freeing, and you learned so 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.800 much about yourself and you meet people in such an 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.760 authentic way because nobody has time to put their both 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.200 layer on like they have at home, and it's it's 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.520 so refreshing to just be able to like openly be 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:49.240 yourself and do whatever you want and not be locked 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.760 into any schedules. It's it's amazing. When you were explaining 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:56.360 your first experience in Europe, I had a similar situation 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.679 minus like the heartbreak and the divorce and all that 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.720 kind of stuff. Uh. But I did a year and 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.320 I'm sorry, a month and a half solo trip through 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.879