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Speaker 1: Hey to your Therapist listeners. It's Lori and Guy and

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Speaker 1: we have a quick update.

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Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something

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Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it

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Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we

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Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we

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Speaker 2: didn't remember.

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Speaker 1: We're They're therapy is like that too. There are so

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Speaker 1: many learning moments in a session, and it's difficult to

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Speaker 1: absorb them all at once. So while we're not taping

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Speaker 1: new episodes right now, we are offering you our most

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Speaker 1: popular sessions as encores so that you can continue to

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Speaker 1: gain value from them.

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Speaker 2: We love doing the Therapists episodes, but we're each busy

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Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects that we hope you will

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Speaker 2: love just as much.

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Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked,

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Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called

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Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind, How to Break Free when work Hijacks your life,

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Speaker 2: and it will be published by Simon and Schuster. You

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Speaker 2: can find out more about it on my website.

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Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapist sessions as valuable

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Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. Hey, fellow travelers,

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Speaker 1: I'm Lori Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

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Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist column

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Speaker 1: for The Atlantic.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Guy Wench. I wrote Emotional First Aid, and

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Speaker 3: I write the Dear Guy collumn for Ted. And this

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Speaker 3: is Dear Therapists this week. A high school student struggles

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Speaker 3: with the intense pressure to achieve while also questioning what

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Speaker 3: success really means.

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Speaker 4: I do feel like the way that the college system

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Speaker 4: that everything is set up is that you kind of

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Speaker 4: have to go through this in your teenage years, like

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Speaker 4: there's not really much time for taking it easier, just

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Speaker 4: like taking a step back, especially because I know so

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Speaker 4: many other kids are competing. It's just I do think

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Speaker 4: I understand it makes me happy. I just I don't

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Speaker 4: know if I'm able to do that to reach Michael.

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Speaker 1: Listen in and maybe learn something about yourself and the process.

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Speaker 3: Deo therapist is for informational purposes only, does not constitute

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Speaker 3: medical advice, and is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis,

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Speaker 3: or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental

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Speaker 3: health professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions

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Speaker 3: you may have regarding a medical condition. By submitting a letter,

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Speaker 3: you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in partner

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Speaker 3: and full and we may edit it for length and

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Speaker 3: or clarity.

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Speaker 1: Hey guy, Hi Laurie, So where are we going this week?

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Speaker 3: We are going back to high school?

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Speaker 1: Ooh, high school? That should be interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the acne is coming out already. Let me read

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Speaker 3: you the letter deo therapists. I'm a high school junior,

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Speaker 3: and the precures of college acceptance are already weighing down

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Speaker 3: on me. I feel like I'm blindly applying to any

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Speaker 3: leadership position there is, and that means for every time

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Speaker 3: I'm chosen, there's at least five times I'm not. I'm

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Speaker 3: already I've become numb to rejection and not fully reaping

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Speaker 3: its benefits. But on the other hand, I feel like

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Speaker 3: I turn into a green eyed monster every time. How

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Speaker 3: do I find the happy medium when it comes to rejection?

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Speaker 3: And more importantly, how do I find the things that

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Speaker 3: truly matter to me, not just what will look good

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Speaker 3: on my college app Thanks Libby.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I hope Libby knows that she

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Speaker 1: is not alone in this. This is very common for

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Speaker 1: high schoolers today, unfortunately, to experience this kind of pressure

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Speaker 1: and to feel it odds with who they are and

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Speaker 1: what they want in the service of creating a resume

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Speaker 1: for college.

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Speaker 3: And I really think that we're not doing a benefit

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Speaker 3: to high schoolers today who are in this real rat

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Speaker 3: race of competition, because if you think about it, they

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Speaker 3: spend so many hours tethered to their desks, and if

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Speaker 3: we replace their laptops with the machine, we'd be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: my goodness, that's a sweatshop. But it's an academic sweatshop.

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Speaker 3: And it's really concerning because it's not leaving them enough

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Speaker 3: time to have a life.

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Speaker 1: And what they miss out on is all of the

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Speaker 1: tasks developmentally that really for a healthy human need to

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Speaker 1: happen during that time. So let's go talk to her

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Speaker 1: and find out a little bit more about what she's

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Speaker 1: going through.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, you're listening to Deo Therapists from iHeartRadio. We'll be

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Speaker 3: back after a quick break.

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Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb and.

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Speaker 3: I'm Guy Winch and this is Deotherapists.

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Speaker 1: So Hi, Libby, Hi, it's nice to meet you.

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Speaker 5: Guys.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Libby, it's great to meet you too. Your letter

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Speaker 3: was about the college application process and all these leadership

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Speaker 3: positions that you're trying to get so that you have

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Speaker 3: the extra curriculars and all of that. Can you tell

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Speaker 3: us what a typical week looks like for you in

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Speaker 3: terms of how busy you are what you are doing,

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Speaker 3: but would have to get a sent of the stresses

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Speaker 3: that you're dealing with.

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Speaker 4: Well beyond the academic side of things, where my course

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Speaker 4: load is pretty heavy, I'm on the leadership I think

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Speaker 4: five different clubs at my school, and two of them

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Speaker 4: are extremely prominent, so I usually have about like three

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Speaker 4: meetings a week with that along with other projects. And

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Speaker 4: I also volunteer at the food bank eight hours every Saturday,

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Speaker 4: so that's just my time.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious to know of those five extracurriculars that you

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Speaker 1: participate in, which ones bring you joy.

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Speaker 5: I love going to the food bank, I do.

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Speaker 4: I feel like that's the one where it's kind of

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Speaker 4: me time, but it's also being productive at the same time.

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Speaker 4: But I also, beyond the hard work it takes, I

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Speaker 4: do enjoy feeling like I'm actively making a change in

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Speaker 4: my school, Like one of them is a club that

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Speaker 4: promotes diversity and inclusion, and it's really a good feeling

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Speaker 4: to know that I'm actually making a dent in the

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Speaker 4: atmosphere at my school.

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Speaker 3: That's great. You mentioned metime that the food bank feels

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Speaker 3: like metime. Yeah, is there any actual meatime? Like how

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Speaker 3: much meatime do you have?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, but I think in terms of actual meatime,

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Speaker 4: I think Sunday evenings are kind of it for me

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Speaker 4: in that I watch a show I Bee with my dog.

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Speaker 1: So paint just a picture that of Sunday evenings. That's

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Speaker 1: the only mettime. What are you doing? Saturday day, Saturday night,

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Speaker 1: Friday night, Sunday Day? Where are your weekends?

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Speaker 5: What are you doing? It's a lot of homework.

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Speaker 4: I really do try to like put a lot of

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Speaker 4: effort into my school work, so that takes a lot

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Speaker 4: of time behind the scenes, and I won't feel good

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Speaker 4: about myself unless I really get that out of the way.

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Speaker 4: So it's usually Sunday where I've gotten it all done.

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Speaker 1: And this pressure that you're feeling to build a resume,

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Speaker 1: where is that coming from? Is that coming from the

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Speaker 1: school environment, Is that coming from your parents? Is that

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Speaker 1: something that you've always held yourself to those kinds of standards.

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Speaker 1: What is the end goal here? Getting into a certain

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Speaker 1: kind of college, which leads you to what, which leads

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Speaker 1: you to what? So help us understand your mindset.

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Speaker 5: I think it's always mostly been me.

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Speaker 4: I've always been very competitive, But then you can put

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Speaker 4: in my environment a little bit too, and that both

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Speaker 4: my parents have been successful in life, and the competition

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Speaker 4: that my school breeds, and just like the kind of

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Speaker 4: kids I feel like I'm surrounded by definitely induce me

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Speaker 4: to dry even harder.

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Speaker 3: So beyond getting into a good school, are there specific

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Speaker 3: schools in mind, the specific majes you have in mind

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Speaker 3: that you want to study, specific career parts. You know,

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Speaker 3: you just want to give yourself the best options possible. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I'm not naive enough to think that my life is

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Speaker 4: perfect if I get an acceptance letter to like a

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Speaker 4: top college, but I do feel like it's an important

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Speaker 4: step on the way to having a good career, feeling

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Speaker 4: successful every day or something.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't really know what the goal is.

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Speaker 4: I just think if I feel satisfied with myself, I

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Speaker 4: will achieve that.

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Speaker 1: When you talk about feeling satisfied with yourself, you talked

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Speaker 1: about two of your extracurriculars that are meaningful to you.

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Speaker 1: They food bank, and then you're working on this diversity

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Speaker 1: and inclusion initiative at your school. So the other three

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Speaker 1: are you doing those for your resume or are you

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Speaker 1: doing those because your heart wants to do them.

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Speaker 4: I do enjoy the other ones quite a bit. One

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Speaker 4: of them is a woman empowerment club too, and I

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Speaker 4: do enjoy that one a lot. I'd lump that one

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Speaker 4: and with the others, but I think the two other clubs,

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Speaker 4: it does kind of feel like I'm kind of taking

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Speaker 4: up this space because I know it's very competitive.

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Speaker 3: So and are the guidance counselors or is a general

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Speaker 3: wisdom around the school that says you need at least

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Speaker 3: four or five clubs? You need that many extracurriculas. In

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Speaker 3: other words, you would think that just the two that

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Speaker 3: you mentioned in the extra one you threw in that

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Speaker 3: sounds good. So is that just because of what everyone

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Speaker 3: else is doing? Why so many?

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Speaker 4: If I want to succeed and be among the most

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Speaker 4: accomplished in my class, that's just a necessity. It's it's

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Speaker 4: leadership and it's important.

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Speaker 5: To have that.

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Speaker 1: You use the word accomplished, and I want to help

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Speaker 1: unpack for a minute what your definition is of accomplishment

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Speaker 1: and success, because as I'm hearing this, I'm thinking about, well,

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Speaker 1: you're doing these activities that don't really mean that much

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Speaker 1: to you, at least two of them, and you're just

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Speaker 1: doing them to have something on your resume that might

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Speaker 1: look good for colleges. But it feels very empty. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's why you wrote to us. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you were really engaged in all of your activities,

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Speaker 1: we never would have received your letter. So help us

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Speaker 1: understand what accomplishment and success mean to you.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting because I think my number one goal in

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Speaker 4: life is to be happy, but I also think that

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Speaker 4: to make myself happy, I have to feel like I

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Speaker 4: am succeeding, and succeeding means like I'm getting the grade

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Speaker 4: I want on a test.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard about the difference between intrinsic motivation and

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Speaker 1: extrinsic motivation.

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Speaker 5: I do not think I have.

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Speaker 1: So Intrinsic motivation is something where the motivation comes from

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Speaker 1: inside of you, like working at the food bank or

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Speaker 1: working on a diversity initiative at your school. That's something

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Speaker 1: that's very meaningful to you. Women empowerment also seems like

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Speaker 1: that's meaningful to you. But the other ones you're saying,

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Speaker 1: you're just basically building a resume with them. That's extrinsic motivation.

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Speaker 1: That's saying something outside of me, whether it's a college system,

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Speaker 1: but you have this idea that there is some reason

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Speaker 1: outside of you that you need to be doing these

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Speaker 1: things that don't really feed you or nourish you. And

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Speaker 1: you said, well, I'm happy if I get a certain grade.

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Speaker 1: These extrinsic markers of success make you happy. And what

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Speaker 1: I want to challenge you on is that most people

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Speaker 1: who find happiness, and by that, I mean people who

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Speaker 1: are content, because happy is sort of like joy. It's

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Speaker 1: a feeling that comes and goes like any other feeling, sadness, anxiety,

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Speaker 1: they go in and out like weather systems. But a

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Speaker 1: feeling of overall contentness in life comes from meaning connection.

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Speaker 1: And that's the part where I think you're setting yourself

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Speaker 1: on a dangerous path. So you're getting your happiness from

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Speaker 1: a grade or something that's on your resume, and I

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Speaker 1: just don't think that that's going to make you happy

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Speaker 1: in the long run.

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Speaker 4: I guess I really boil it down like I wrote down,

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Speaker 4: like the top five things that make me happy at

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Speaker 4: the end of the day.

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Speaker 5: I do think a big part of it would be

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Speaker 5: social too.

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Speaker 4: I do find happiness and doing well in school, but

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Speaker 4: I also appreciate connection. It's just I feel like there's

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Speaker 4: two sides of me that are kind of battling for

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Speaker 4: the time to find those interactions that make me happy.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad there's connection. But the difference between intrinsic

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Speaker 1: and external motivation might be it makes me happy to

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Speaker 1: try my best and to have this growth mindset where

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Speaker 1: I'm learning and I'm growing even if I don't get

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Speaker 1: the highest grade, and I'll learn something from that and

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Speaker 1: maybe next time I'll do better. As opposed to what

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Speaker 1: did everybody else get? Oh my gosh, I got a

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Speaker 1: ninety eight. Someone else got in ninety nine, right, and

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Speaker 1: you're laughing because this is what you're experiencing. As opposed to, Wow,

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Speaker 1: I learned a lot when I was for this test,

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Speaker 1: or that was really interesting to me. Or I pushed

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Speaker 1: myself to work hard. That's intrinsic motivation. Extrinsic motivation is

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Speaker 1: what great am I going to get? Same with your extracurriculars.

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Speaker 1: I really enjoy doing this activity or it's very meaningful

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Speaker 1: to me. There's passion and purpose behind it, as opposed

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Speaker 1: to I became president of this club and that's going

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Speaker 1: to look good on my resume.

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Speaker 5: I wholeheartedly agree with that.

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Speaker 4: It's just I can't help but feel a bit guilty

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Speaker 4: if I do prioritize that the less artificial happiness, and

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Speaker 4: that I do feel like the way that the college

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Speaker 4: system that everything is kind of set up is that

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Speaker 4: you kind of have to go through this in your

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Speaker 4: teenage years, Like there's not really much time for taking

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Speaker 4: it easier, just like taking a step back, especially because

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Speaker 4: I know so many other kids are competing. It's just

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Speaker 4: I do think I understand that makes me happy. I

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Speaker 4: just I don't know if I'm able to do that

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Speaker 4: to reach my goals.

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Speaker 3: You know, we talk about the work life balance, and

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Speaker 3: we usually mean the workplace and the life balance, but

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Speaker 3: the study life balance is exactly the same as the

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Speaker 3: work life balance. It really means how many hours are

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Speaker 3: you dedicating to your career present of future versus the

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Speaker 3: connections small indulgences like in the Sunday evenings you allow

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Speaker 3: yourself to watch a show and I hope you enjoy it,

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Speaker 3: but that's very little that you're allowing yourself. And part

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Speaker 3: of the concern about that is that balance. The way

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Speaker 3: it's set up right now is two weighted in the

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Speaker 3: favor of the work component, and it doesn't end once

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Speaker 3: you get into college because the mindset that you have

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Speaker 3: right now will be carried over into well, but then

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Speaker 3: I want to go to graduate school or get the

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Speaker 3: best internship or get the best job, so can't slack

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Speaker 3: off now. And then you get the best job, or

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Speaker 3: you go to graduate school and can't slack off now.

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Speaker 3: And this is what happens to people. They start in

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Speaker 3: high school and probably you start it before, but you

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Speaker 3: set the bar really really high, and then you focus

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Speaker 3: so much on that you take your eye of how

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Speaker 3: you're doing, and that results in feeling very, very stressed out.

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Speaker 3: But this is the right time for high school students

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Speaker 3: to catch it as a huge competition. But they are

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Speaker 3: probably some tweaks that need to be done that balance

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Speaker 3: things out a little bit more. If you had a

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Speaker 3: little bit more time, if you could invent five more

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Speaker 3: hours in the week that you didn't have to dedicate

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Speaker 3: to the getting into college thing. What would you do

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Speaker 3: with those hours?

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Speaker 4: Hmmm, five more hours in the week, And I don't

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Speaker 4: think the answer you're looking for is put another five

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Speaker 4: hours system.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't think that's the answer you were looking for, Libby.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're right, because it wouldn't be a very enjoyable

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Speaker 4: five hours.

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Speaker 3: But that is where your mind went first. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's my point, right, that your mind life as were like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I could do so much more studying, or there's one

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Speaker 3: more leadership thing. But that's the right. But I am

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Speaker 3: furious if it were just for you, just for your

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Speaker 3: own joy satisfaction, nothing that counts for anything. What would

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Speaker 3: you do.

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Speaker 4: If I'm allowed to do this, I'd probably break up

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Speaker 4: an hour for each of the five days of the weekdays,

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Speaker 4: and I would put it at sunset time, and I

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Speaker 4: would go on a bike ride and I would sit

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Speaker 4: and I would I don't know, eat ice cream and

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Speaker 4: watch the sunset.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, yes, that sounds amazing.

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Speaker 1: Guy was talking about how this mindset that you have

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Speaker 1: won't end once you get to college, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of kids in high school think about college is the price,

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Speaker 1: you know, if I can just get that acceptance letter,

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Speaker 1: if I can just get into that college, and then

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Speaker 1: they don't really think about what happens. All they think

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Speaker 1: about is here's the school I want to go to,

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Speaker 1: or here are the three top schools that I want

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Speaker 1: to go to, and I have to put all of

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Speaker 1: my energies into getting into those schools. And if I

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Speaker 1: get into one of those schools, I'm done. And so

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Speaker 1: going back to intrinsic motivation, what is your intrinsic motivation

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Speaker 1: for wanting to get into a certain kind of college.

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Speaker 1: What do you think that will do for you and

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Speaker 1: your life satisfaction.

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Speaker 4: I think it's a pretty good marker of how much

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Speaker 4: I would have sacrificed over like maybe these past four

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Speaker 4: years at high school, or what will it be these

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Speaker 4: past four years? I know that myself in the future

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Speaker 4: will it will be like a very big symbol of

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Speaker 4: all my hard work, and if I it would just

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Speaker 4: show like some of my character too, Like if I

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Speaker 4: worked hard for this goal, I've reached it, and that

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Speaker 4: means I could reach more goals in the future.

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Speaker 1: And what if your goal in high school when you

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Speaker 1: look back later, you said, you know what I did

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Speaker 1: in high school is I worked really hard and I

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Speaker 1: focused on things that mattered to me, And I got

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Speaker 1: into a good college, maybe not the one, and you

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Speaker 1: did it that way, and you met lots of friends,

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Speaker 1: you were involved in tons of activities that meant something

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Speaker 1: to you. You were prepared for the kind of career

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Speaker 1: you wanted. You ended up having the kinds of relationships

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Speaker 1: that you wanted. Would you look back and be disappointed

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Speaker 1: in yourself?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 4: Somehow I feel like that will be my life, Like

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Speaker 4: I will learn this lesson eventually, but right now I

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Speaker 4: couldn't help. But when you're saying that, think of like

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Speaker 4: a little nagging voice in the back of my mind

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Speaker 4: that was saying, like, you could have had more?

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Speaker 1: So what is the more that you could have had.

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Speaker 1: Let's just use a symbol of colleges. Let's say we're

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Speaker 1: talking about Harvard, Yale, Stanford, whatever, going to Harvardale, Stanford

356
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Speaker 1: as opposed to a really really good school that isn't

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Speaker 1: Harvard Dale Stanford. What is the more that you think

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Speaker 1: you would have at Harvard, Yale or Stanford.

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Speaker 4: I just feel like one is a bigger symbol and

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Speaker 4: for it to whom, maybe to me and maybe to

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Speaker 4: everybody else too, It's just I'm so in the moment

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Speaker 4: right now of working hard, skipping out in the mean time,

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Speaker 4: et cetera. That I want it to make me come

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Speaker 4: in number one, And even if that's just like the

365
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Speaker 4: US News ranking, it is how other people view it.

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Speaker 4: I want my hard work to reflect a gold medal,

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Speaker 4: not silver.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like you're saying, I need to know that

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Speaker 3: I can do that, and once I get into number one,

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Speaker 3: then I can maybe relax a little bit more because

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Speaker 3: I proved it to myself, so then I'll be able

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Speaker 3: to be a little less gold driven.

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Speaker 4: I especially feel like in today's culture, what college you

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Speaker 4: go to is like one of the biggest things. Like

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Speaker 4: if I don't do as well in that school, I

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Speaker 4: can always use that network of yes, I went there.

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Speaker 4: And it's unfortunate that it's structured that way, but I

378
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Speaker 4: do feel like it is important, especially if I was

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Speaker 4: applying for future jobs and everything.

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Speaker 5: It is an important factor and I don't want to

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Speaker 5: ignore it.

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Speaker 1: I just want to help you with some reality checking

383
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Speaker 1: on that. Which is that? And it's hard to see

384
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Speaker 1: because you're in the middle of all of these kids

385
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Speaker 1: who have the same beliefs and all of these parents,

386
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Speaker 1: by the way, in your community I'm sure have the

387
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Speaker 1: same beliefs that you have, But I want to zoom

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Speaker 1: out a little bit and give you the perspective from

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Speaker 1: decades down the line, which is that every study shows

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Speaker 1: that where you went to college, whether you went to

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Speaker 1: an Ivy League college or you didn't, has no impact

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Speaker 1: on your future happiness in life. And so you feel

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Speaker 1: like if I have that and I can carry that

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Speaker 1: around for the rest of my life. I went to Harvard,

395
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Speaker 1: I went to Stanford, I went to Yale, then somehow

396
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Speaker 1: that protects you and provides a certain kind of life

397
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Speaker 1: for you that I think is a fiction, because there

398
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Speaker 1: are just as many people from those schools who are

399
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Speaker 1: depressed and anxious and unhappy and don't meet their career

400
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Speaker 1: goals then people who don't. And so let's just say,

401
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Speaker 1: for the sake of argument, that these studies are right,

402
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Speaker 1: that there is no difference in happiness decades later between

403
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Speaker 1: the people who went to the number one school versus

404
00:22:35,159 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: the people who went to the very good schools and

405
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Speaker 1: were happy at those schools. What is your goal, then,

406
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Speaker 1: What is the purpose of all of this, of not

407
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Speaker 1: taking those bike rides, of not watching the sunset?

408
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Speaker 5: I don't know.

409
00:22:49,919 --> 00:22:52,279
Speaker 4: I don't really quite know what the goal is. I

410
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 4: just know that if I reached this one, it'll just feel,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, like I'm on the right path.

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Speaker 1: And that's why we're a little bit worried, because guys

413
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: are looking at each other because you have this fantasy.

414
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Speaker 1: And it's not just about schools, by the way. So

415
00:23:11,919 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: in life, it's like, if I get this one job,

416
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Speaker 1: if I have this amount of money at that point,

417
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:26,239
Speaker 1: I will inoculate myself from you know, sort of future unhappiness,

418
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Speaker 1: right right.

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Speaker 3: And the research about money is just the same as

420
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Speaker 3: the research about the ivy leagues that beyond a certain

421
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,959
Speaker 3: income which is comparatively low, it doesn't make a difference

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Speaker 3: to happiness at all.

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Speaker 1: And so what worries us is this idea that you're

424
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Speaker 1: going to get into this school and you're going to

425
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Speaker 1: get there and you're going to go uh oh wait,

426
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Speaker 1: I sacrificed my childhood and my adolescence for this, really

427
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: and for a while it will protect you because every

428
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Speaker 1: time you go somewhere, you'll get to say, yeah, I

429
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 1: go to whatever school, or you know, when you graduate,

430
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: yeah I graduated from this school. But it's going to

431
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: start to feel empty. At a certain point, it will

432
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,479
Speaker 1: start to meet a lot less to you and equally

433
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,239
Speaker 1: importantly to the people around you. So all of the

434
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: ways that right now this stuff means so much when

435
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: people are like where do you get into school? Where

436
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: are you going to school? That means a lot. It's

437
00:24:21,399 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 1: going to mean almost nothing later on in life, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, be part of I think the thinking that you

439
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,799
Speaker 3: have that's problematic, but a lot of people in your

440
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 3: position have is that it feels like going from one

441
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 3: hundred percent effort to ninety eight percent effort to ninety

442
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: seven percent effort will sabotage your goals entirely. So it's

443
00:24:45,679 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 3: either sunset or hord. You can't have both. And that's

444
00:24:50,399 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 3: a real problem with the thinking because that's absolutely incorrect.

445
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 3: And I think that if you were to speak to

446
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 3: people who consider themselves successful later in life, they will

447
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 3: point to the mix they have these professional goals, and

448
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 3: equally important for them is to have a life, is

449
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 3: to do the things that make them happy, is to

450
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 3: do the things that give them meaning, which is then

451
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: about personal enrichment, connections and family and friendships and all

452
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 3: of those things. And I think that the feeling is

453
00:25:21,919 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 3: and this is the feeding that I think is troubling

454
00:25:23,879 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 3: me with you is that you really feel like no,

455
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 3: but right now it has to be one hundred percent,

456
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 3: and I have to put on hold all my other

457
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 3: wants and needs other than Sunday watching the show for

458
00:25:33,919 --> 00:25:36,719
Speaker 3: a little bit. And that is the thinking that I

459
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: think is to extreme, because success means you.

460
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 1: Have both well, right, I think when we talk about success,

461
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: you can have all of these very impressive extracurriculars and

462
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: the grades that you want to have, But if the

463
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: cost is stress or depression, or anxiety or envy all

464
00:25:56,639 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: the time, or this feeling of never being good enough

465
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 1: compared to your classmates, I don't know that that's a

466
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: healthy definition of success, and I don't know that it's

467
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: the kind of success that you should aspire too.

468
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,519
Speaker 4: It's just it's so hard to change my way of

469
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 4: thinking because when you guys are saying this, I am

470
00:26:17,879 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 4: reminded of like what I have honestly thought is that

471
00:26:20,919 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 4: I will be likely happier socially, I will feel less

472
00:26:25,639 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 4: like the toxic environment. But it's just so hard to

473
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 4: unlearn that wanting the best, especially because I am in

474
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 4: that environment right now.

475
00:26:35,679 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 5: So I can help, but wonder if I could have both.

476
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: So Libby, what Guy said earlier I think is really important,

477
00:26:42,439 --> 00:26:45,279
Speaker 1: which is that nobody's saying go from one hundred and

478
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: ten percent effort to eighty percent effort. He was talking

479
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: about going to like a ninety eight, and I think

480
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: what he meant to wasn't a ninety eight. And the

481
00:26:54,639 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 1: things you care about, the things you care about, put

482
00:26:57,439 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: in one hundred and ten percent effort because you care.

483
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: Guy and I we put in one hundred and ten

484
00:27:02,879 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: percent effort into the things that really matter to us.

485
00:27:07,399 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: We will sacrifice lots of things for the things that

486
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: really matter to us but matter to us intrinsically. But

487
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: to put in one hundred and ten percent effort into

488
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: something that doesn't mean something to us, that is where

489
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: we want to open up a little door for you

490
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: and to help you think about. Even in this conversation,

491
00:27:31,879 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: those two extracurriculars that you said, well, those are leadership positions,

492
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: and at my school those look really good on a resume.

493
00:27:39,639 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: I think when you get to college, what makes for

494
00:27:41,879 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: success are the people who are whole human beings who

495
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: really learned something about themselves as they were going through

496
00:27:50,159 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: this developmental phase. Those people who say, I know what's

497
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: important to me, and I'm going to put a lot

498
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: of effort into what's important to me. I'm going to

499
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: be authentic. And it's even possible that your plan is

500
00:28:01,919 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: backfiring because I think that the colleges are pretty aware

501
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: of what's authentic and what's not. And you're kind of

502
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: rolling your eyes a little bit there, but I want

503
00:28:14,399 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 1: to tell you that I think they're getting much better

504
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,519
Speaker 1: at that. They're like, wait a minute, this person is

505
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: doing five extra curriculars, and they're doing this and that

506
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: and the other thing, and they're also getting the top grades.

507
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: And I have to wonder, where's this person's true passion?

508
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: Who is this person?

509
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, I absolutely understand that.

510
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 4: And I have to say I was thinking of like

511
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 4: the kids I know who they run clubs like I

512
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 4: don't even know, like research of kidney transplant or something,

513
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,959
Speaker 4: and I seriously doubt sixteen year olds are interested in that.

514
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 4: If you ask any of my friends or any of

515
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 4: my classmates, I would feel like they would describe me

516
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 4: as that person.

517
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 5: I feel like that's a big part of my quote

518
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:57,759
Speaker 5: unquote brand.

519
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 1: You use the word brand, okay, that that's part of

520
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,719
Speaker 1: your brand. And I think right there, you're looking for

521
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,239
Speaker 1: a brand of a college. You're not looking for the

522
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: place where you will thrive. You are simply saying, oh,

523
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: I want the Harvard brand or whatever your dream is,

524
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: as opposed to where will I actually thrive? And you're

525
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: looking at how people perceive you. That's your brand, that's

526
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: not your essence. And in life, what's going to be

527
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: important in terms of your happiness is what is your

528
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: authentic essence, not what is your brand. I can say

529
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: for myself that when I was in high school, I

530
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: felt like if I didn't do all of the things

531
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: that I could do, even if they didn't make me

532
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: happy or were fulfilling to me, that people would perceive

533
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: me as less accomplished. People would perceive me as less

534
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: in the game. If I didn't get the top score

535
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: on a test, then people would think I was less

536
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: smart because I could have gotten a higher score. But

537
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: I decided to go take that bike ride and look

538
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,039
Speaker 1: at the sunset, and what I found was it didn't

539
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: matter what people thought of me because I was making

540
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,999
Speaker 1: myself miserable. And I think that the mindset is, well,

541
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: it's only four years, so I can live miserably for

542
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: four years. Four years matters not just because of those

543
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: four years, but because it forms who you are going forward.

544
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: That's true when you think about your brand. I want

545
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: you to think seriously about what you value in yourself

546
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: and not what others might value about you, and to

547
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: be able to separate that out, because right now they

548
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: are so enmeshed.

549
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, the thing is, those things are important to me,

550
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 4: but I feel like I can't let up too, Like

551
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 4: I need to have that accomplished version of myself, and

552
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 4: then I also am trying to work on that other person.

553
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,799
Speaker 3: If you described the way you are right now, and

554
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 3: you compare that to describing exact same person with one

555
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 3: tweak that the second version of Libby only does three

556
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 3: clubs rather than five, and she spends an hour taking

557
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: a bike ride, watching the sunset, sometimes having some ice cream,

558
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: sometimes doing some sketching, sometimes just listening to music. She

559
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 3: spends an hour of quality time with herself every day

560
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 3: doing things that just make her smile. Which one is

561
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: more successful of those two?

562
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 5: Libby's the second one It just it just it just

563
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 5: clicked for me. It just clicked for me.

564
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: And who do you like better? Libby? One who does

565
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,959
Speaker 1: things that don't really mean that much to her, but

566
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: she's trying to game the system. Or Libby two, who's

567
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: really accomplished, works really hard, gets really good grades, participates

568
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,519
Speaker 1: in activities that mean something to her. She wants to

569
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,479
Speaker 1: make the world a better place, and she also values

570
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: her social connections and she values herself.

571
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 5: I like the second one. Yeah, that's crazy.

572
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,999
Speaker 4: I've always thought that like a central tenet of and

573
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 4: I think right around when I wrote to you guys,

574
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 4: I was thinking a lot of like what rejection is

575
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 4: and what success is, and something I wrote down was

576
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 4: successful people do all the things unsuccessful people don't want

577
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 4: to do.

578
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 5: Now, I don't know if that's true.

579
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,239
Speaker 3: It looks there's always more you can do. That's certainly

580
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 3: going to be true. In college there was always another chapter,

581
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 3: you can read, another paper, you can study a round.

582
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 3: The trick then is to know where to set the

583
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 3: limit and to know how to prioritize some other things

584
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: so you are clear about the social being important. The

585
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 3: third aspect is again your quality of life. Like you know,

586
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,999
Speaker 3: people will sometimes say, oh, I just took a bath

587
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 3: for an hour and just kind of lay there and

588
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 3: thought for a bit, or the bike ride all the

589
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: kinds of things that you look at like, I don't

590
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 3: have time for that. But the way it works is

591
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 3: that if you decide, here are the things that actually

592
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 3: make me smile and unwind and recharge and rejuvenate, like

593
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 3: taking the bike ride and watching the sunset, So those

594
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 3: become priorities. Are limited them because I don't have a

595
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 3: ton of time. But once they are in, what then

596
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,239
Speaker 3: don't I have time for? And then that's when the

597
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: less meaningful extras drop off because truly then you don't

598
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: have time for them. But they won't drop off unless

599
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: there's something else posing its way in that you need

600
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: to prioritize. And that's again your emotional needs, your self care,

601
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 3: take a moment to breathe, to relax, to absorb, to

602
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 3: get perspective. That's what's missing that you need to elbow in,

603
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 3: and other things will drop out because of it.

604
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: I'll also give you a little bit of a window

605
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: into what Guy and I see in the therapy room,

606
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: which is that an older version of you will come

607
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: in and sit on our perspective couches and they will say,

608
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,799
Speaker 1: I went to this college, I have this successful job,

609
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: I have lots of friends. Everything looks great on the outside,

610
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: and I am so unhappy and I don't know why,

611
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: and I see your face. Your face just sort of fell. Yeah,

612
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: and that's because I think that something resonated there with you,

613
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: that it was sort of like the ghost of Christmas past,

614
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: that something said, uh, oh, what if? Even though I

615
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: don't think that that's how you think things are going

616
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 1: to go, because nobody does. So everybody like you thinks

617
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to work really hard, I'm going to get

618
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: into the college. I'm going to do really well in college,

619
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to get this great job and

620
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: it's going to be great. And then they come to

621
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: therapy and they say, I don't know why it's not great.

622
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened. I did everything right. I

623
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: checked off every box and more. There's nothing I could

624
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: have done differently. But oh yes there is. And that's

625
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: what we're trying to tell you, that there is something

626
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: you do differently. It's not about the checklist, because the

627
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: checklist won't necessarily get you to the kind of life

628
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: you want to live.

629
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the checklist thing kind of also struck a

630
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 4: nerve because a little anecdote I recently started just like

631
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 4: seeing a therapist to deal with like the stress of

632
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 4: junior year, because this might have kind of inspired me.

633
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 4: But I told her I didn't have a very good

634
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 4: weekend and she asked why, and I was like, I

635
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 4: didn't get a lot done, and she was shocked to

636
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 4: discovered I had a backup to do list after I'd

637
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 4: finished my first to do list, and she was told me,

638
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 4: that's I don't know, like I'll never really reach like

639
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 4: what guy was saying, Like I'll never really reach that

640
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 4: check off, Like it's just a constant uphill.

641
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: Battle, you know, LIBBYA. I'm wondering, we've been talking a

642
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: lot about the environment at your school. What do you

643
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: think your parents would say about going from one hundred

644
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 1: and ten percent to maybe ninety eight percent in certain

645
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: areas that you're less passionate about.

646
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 4: I think they'd be complete proponence of that when they

647
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 4: get a parent did your conferences. The teachers are expecting

648
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 4: to see like super crazy, like super hard on me parents,

649
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 4: and they're always shocked that my parents seem chilling, and

650
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 4: they agree they want me to take a step back

651
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 4: and relax. But that means there's no external people making

652
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 4: me that wise, it's just me.

653
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: It's not just you, it's the culture too. The environment

654
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: that we're in is contagious and so part of you. Yes,

655
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 1: you're just inherently a person who is very driven, and

656
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: that can be a great quality, but you have to

657
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: drive in the right direction. You can be driven, but

658
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: where are you actually getting to where you actually going

659
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: and are you enjoying the ride.

660
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 4: That's a good analogy, yeah, because when you guys are

661
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 4: talking about that second Libby, it was just I was

662
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 4: thinking about I'm like, I would totally want to be

663
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 4: that girl. I really would, but it's just it's hard

664
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 4: when I feel like the environment I'm in doesn't really

665
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 4: foster that kind of person. Like, how do you really transform,

666
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 4: Like to use like a flower analogy, how do you

667
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 4: like blossom into that flower when the ground you're in

668
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 4: only really takes the first version?

669
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: No, no, no, that's the point that I'm showing to

670
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 3: make because that's not necessarily true.

671
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: The soil isn't like that. One thing to remember is

672
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: that nobody gets to live your life for you. That

673
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: this is your life and you get to choose how

674
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: it goes. And so when you see I can't do

675
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: this or I can't do that. I only get this

676
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: little window on Sunday nights. That's my I get to

677
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: watch a show, you know. I mean when you hear that,

678
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: it sounds like a very limited life.

679
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 4: I really appreciate your advice. It's really nice to hear it, too,

680
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 4: because I feel like there is a part of me

681
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 4: that's kind of been like whining for it. Like I

682
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 4: would like to be able to become a more well

683
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 4: rounded person. I would like to read that book on

684
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 4: my shelf. I would like to have that. It's just

685
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 4: nice to hear I might be like allowed to almost.

686
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: So, Libby, We're thinking about your situation, and here's what

687
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 1: we'd like you to do this week. We'd like you

688
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 1: to go on that bike ride and look at the sunset,

689
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: and while you're there, we want you to make a

690
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: list of the things that you would just like to do.

691
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 1: Like you just said, oh, I'd like to read a

692
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 1: book off my shelf occasionally while you're up there enjoying

693
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: the sunset. Make a list here are seven things that

694
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: I would like to do. And then we want you

695
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: to do one of those each day. And it doesn't

696
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: have to take a full hour. It could be something

697
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 1: like I'm going to read a chapter of a book

698
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: and maybe that takes me thirty minutes. Or I'm going

699
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: to call a friend and we're going to not talk

700
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: about anything academic. We're just going to talk abo about

701
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: life and laugh and enjoy ourselves. Whatever those things are

702
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: for you, we'd like you to do one of them

703
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: a day and really embody Libby Too.

704
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 3: And when you catch yourself having a Libby one reaction,

705
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 3: would like you to write down what Libby Too would

706
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 3: think about that, because Libby Too might think, but actually

707
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 3: really enjoying the book that I'm reading, and I'm allowing

708
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 3: myself to do at least forty five minutes a day

709
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 3: a bit, and I'm loving it. And if you can

710
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 3: get this balance right between keeping your finger on your

711
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: poets and giving yourself things that you need that you've

712
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 3: been denying yourself because of this other priority, that's success,

713
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 3: that's Libby Too, and because ultimately we think you'll be

714
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 3: much happier and actually more successful in life as Liby

715
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 3: Too rather than Liby One.

716
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 4: Okay, I can absolutely do that, but it was not

717
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 4: as scary as I thought of it.

718
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 3: Of you.

719
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: And remember too, because you do hold yourself to such

720
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: high standards. The perfectionist in you is going to want

721
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: to master that this week, and we want to let

722
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: you know that this takes time. We would consider this

723
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: a success if you've got just a taste of what

724
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 1: it might be like to inhabit Libby too, because we

725
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: think Libby to is your more authentic self, and that's

726
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: the goal of this, So if you get a little

727
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: taste of that, this week will be a huge success.

728
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 5: I think. I think it's a really good idea.

729
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 4: I hope it'll help me like redefine my goals too,

730
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 4: and it's just good to like find what would make

731
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 4: me happy, So I'm excited.

732
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't think you've put enough thought into that.

733
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, it'd be nice to finally be able to.

734
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: I think adolescence is a really important time for developing

735
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: a sense of who you are and what's important to you,

736
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: because you're in that period between being a child where

737
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: you're so influenced by the adults around you, to becoming

738
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 1: an adult yourself. And I'm so glad that Libby was

739
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 1: able to sit and grapple with the two different parts

740
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: of her, the part of her that's very impacted by

741
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: what she thinks is important in the culture. And then

742
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: the part of her that says, wait a minute, I

743
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to live like this.

744
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 3: And really getting in touch with what your needs are,

745
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 3: learning that, regardless of all the obligations in front of me,

746
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 3: I need to have some time off. I need to

747
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 3: be able to read for pleasure. I need to be

748
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 3: able to watch a sunset, and to be able to

749
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 3: recognize that as you're growing up and you become a

750
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 3: full adult, no one is going to do that for

751
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 3: you. You have to learn to take care of your own

752
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 3: emotional needs in that way, and this is the time

753
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 3: to practice that.

754
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: And you also have to be able to define your

755
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: values for yourself. That's part of the work of moving

756
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: through adolescence and early adulthood. She's gone through her life

757
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: with this very all or nothing mindset. There's success and

758
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 1: there's failure, and there's nothing in between, and her definition

759
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: of success is not actually leading to what I think

760
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: would be her definition of a successful life. So I'm

761
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: really interested to see whether she is able to incorporate

762
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: some of this into her daily life. Sometimes these small

763
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: tweaks can make a huge difference.

764
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 3: I'll say this, Laurie, when we do these sessions, I

765
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: often walk away thinking, oh, there's a reminder for me

766
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 3: there as well. And as we were talking, I'm like,

767
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 3: when is the last time I saw a sunset? It's

768
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 3: not that long ago, in fact, but I'm going to

769
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 3: go watch one today.

770
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: You're listening to Dear Therapists from my Heart Radio. We'll

771
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 1: be back after a quick break.

772
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: So for the first time, we got back a home

773
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: with assignment from a natural student.

774
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: Libby, And this is the assignment that I care the

775
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: most about.

776
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 3: Exactly Libby too.

777
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 5: Let's hear it, hi, guys.

778
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: So I did it.

779
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 4: I wrote down my list, which was as follows. One

780
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 4: watched the sunset. Two, finally finish my book I've been reading. Three,

781
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 4: go on to walk with my best friend for catch

782
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 4: up on the latest sn L Five, go out and

783
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 4: get lunch. Six, watch a movie with my little brother,

784
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 4: and seven sit in a pretty place and just listen

785
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 4: to music. And after that week, I honestly feel lighter.

786
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 4: I thought I'd feel more stressed with less time, but

787
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 4: it's more like the highs and lows of my day

788
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 4: are more saturated. I'm getting more satisfaction after finishing my

789
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 4: work with piling more on and the things I do

790
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 4: for myself are just as fun as I thought there

791
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 4: would be. Just like you said, I do feel more

792
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 4: balanced after bringing this balance into my life. I feel

793
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 4: less like a workhorse and more like a girl just

794
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 4: doing her best. I'm really going to try to implement

795
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 4: this more into my life, even if it's just three

796
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 4: things a week, and I do recommend it to anyone

797
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 4: else overwhelm my stress out there. I'm feeling far more

798
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 4: optimistic and just happy. I feel like I was really

799
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 4: able to have those extra five hours of sunsets that

800
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 4: I craved.

801
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 5: So thank you, Thank you so much so.

802
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: I love that Libby discovered that when you have balance

803
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: in your life, it doesn't make you less productive. It

804
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: actually makes you function better as a whole.

805
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 3: I think what stops many people from doing what Libby

806
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 3: did is this fear that because they're so depleted, if

807
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 3: they spend any effort in trying to make time for themselves,

808
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 3: that will button them out and they will really go

809
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 3: into the red, when in fact it's paxical. It's the opposite.

810
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 3: By making time for yourself, you are filling your tank,

811
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 3: You're not depleting it further.

812
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: And I hope that other students like Libby listen to

813
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: this and they try it for themselves, because what they're

814
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 1: doing is they're training themselves to take the time to

815
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 1: care for themselves, which they will need to do as adults,

816
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: because we see so many adults who come to us

817
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: with a similar thing. So it's not necessarily about extracurriculars

818
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: and getting grades and getting into college, but it's about

819
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 1: not being able to take time for themselves in their

820
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: daily lives. So I hope that high school students listen

821
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: to this, but I also hope that adults listen to

822
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: this and implement these strategies. Just try it for a

823
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 1: week like Libby did, and see and feel the change.

824
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 3: Hey fellow travelers, if you've used any of our advice

825
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 3: from the podcast in your own life, send us a

826
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 3: quick voice memo to lurid guy at iHeartMedia dot com

827
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 3: and tell us about it. We may include it in

828
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 3: a future show. Thank you so much for listening. If

829
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 3: you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate

830
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 3: and review it.

831
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: You can follow us both online. I'm at Lorigottlieb dot

832
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: com and you can follow me on Twitter at Lorigottlieb

833
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: one or on Instagram at Lorigottlieb Underscore author.

834
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 3: And I'm at Guywinch dot com. I'm on Twitter and

835
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 3: on Instagram at Guywinch. If you have a dilemma you'd

836
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 3: like to discuss with us, big or small, email us

837
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 3: at Lorianguy at iHeartMedia dot com.

838
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 1: Our executive producers Christopher Hasiotis were produced and edited by

839
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 1: Mike Johns. Special thanks to Samuel Benefield and to our

840
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 1: podcast Fairygodmother Katie Couric. And Next Week, a woman deals

841
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: with the fallout after her mother blames her for her

842
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: father's suicide.

843
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 3: She said, you know why he killed himself, So she

844
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 3: made it sound like she knew the reason, like he

845
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 3: left it in the suicide note.

846
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: Basically, I don't believe her anymore.

847
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 5: I feel like she's lying.

848
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio