WEBVTT - Stuff 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.000 That is the zipper of my suitcase, and it is 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.920 one of the most emotionally loaded sounds of my life 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.360 as a touring musician. That noise means its van call, 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:15.920 your morning deadline to meet all your bandmates in the 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:21.400 hotel parking lot, and you are frantically packing, running mental checklists, toothbrush, 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.640 who bearings, water bottle, sleep mask thing, and you're zipping 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.280 your suitcase hoping that the seems hold as you lean 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.520 on it, smashing your entire life like a Panini, trying 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:32.880 to fit all the possessions you'll need for the next 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.840 span of weeks or months into a two inch wheely 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:43.120 carry on and a Duffel bag okay, and yet living 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.640 out of only a couple of bags. I almost always 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.239 packed something that never gets used, address that doesn't make 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.600 it on stage, a book I don't end up cracking, 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:53.599 which begs the question, if I don't really need all 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:55.880 this stuff in this carry on, then what the heck 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.400 is all the stuff at home for the drill that 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.400 I can't find? The power cord floor, the velcrow curlers, 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.120 the box full of power chords, none of them fitting 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:06.880 the drill. Living light for a while can make an 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.560 apartment feel like a walk in junk drawer of heart 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:17.480 to part with bits and pieces. I'm Dessa. This is 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:21.400 deeply human. Presuming you're not a hardcore ascetic tuning in 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.080 on a d I Y crystal radio, you probably have 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.760 some stuff you don't really need, maybe even more than 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.440 you want. So why are humans so driven to a 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.559 choir collect and even horde? Why do you own so much? 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:41.679 And when does your stuff start to own you? The 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.360 Royal Charter was a ship which sank off the coasts 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.720 of Wales actually on this route to Liverpool from the 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.320 gold fields of Australia. Sank in eighteen fifty nine and 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.760 I think loss about six lives. What made this tragic 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.000 According to reports, many of the people who drowned they 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.080 were the miners who were carrying the gold on them 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.040 and money belts. They drowned because they wouldn't let go 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.520 of all the gold that they were carrying. And that goal, 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:06.200 by the way, is washing up on the shores of 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.720 North Wales as we speak. Prospectives are going out to 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:13.280 try and retrieve it. That is Bruce Hood, professor of 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:17.560 developmental psychology at the University of Bristol in England, Bruce 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.200 wrote a book called Possessed, which explores why humans strive 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.320 to own so much stuff. But before we can examine 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.320 the motives buried in our golumy little hearts, we've got 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:33.240 to get some terms straight. Possession versus ownership. Bruce, possession 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.160 is the physical control of an item, usually a material thing, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:42.239 whereas ownership is a convention of social contract, whereby people 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.040 are recognized to have control over something in perpetuity even 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.880 when they're not there. So it's like, this is my 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.200 spoon when it's in my best possession, This is my 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.680 spoon when it's in the drawer and I'm asleep. Ownership, 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.040 that's it. As a general rule, the rest of the 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.200 animal world doesn't own item in the same way we do. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:05.320 Possible exceptions might be the California sea otter, known to 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.359 store one stone in a special little pouch, a handy 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.840 tool for whatever they've got, a crack open a mollusk shell, 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.240 and some birds like rooks or Jay's are known to 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.720 play with bottle caps, marbles, and other shiny treasures and 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:21.799 bury their personal cash for safe keeping. But usually even 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.280 if animals possess an object, a stick used for termite 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.320 hunting say, they just discard it when they're done with it. 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.200 When humans are young, they don't really get the idea 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.440 of ownership either. They think if you can't control something, 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.080 you can't own them. So yeah, so if they think 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.040 you're a sleeper in a comor you're tied up, you 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.840 can't own something, because they have used this issue of 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.160 control as a basis for establishing possession and for the 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:51.160 basis of later ownership. We enter the world with no stuff, 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.120 only a little plastic hospital bracelet announcing the names. Somebody 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.240 just bestowed upon us our first bit of intellectual property, 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.720 I suppose. But so somebody sets it up with a blanket, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.440 a passive fire, a stuffed bunny. You learn the word mine, 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.960 and you wear it out, and the great acquisition has begun. 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.560 Before long, we're outgrowing shoes, sleeping on our very own 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.320 big kid bed, maybe cruising around and a sweet rides 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:19.320 on training wheels. Even in modern homes of pretty modest means, 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.760 there's usually a bunch of stuff. Then you're full grown 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.039 and it's time to move out, find a gig, maybe 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.360 partner up with somebody and get a place of your own. 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.320 We had two front seats in the volks fucking and 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.560 then wait to put all of our worldly goods in 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.040 the back. It was the most exciting time in my life. 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:46.120 I would say that's Candy Hyatt for counting her experience 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.880 of this particular life stage to go out and make 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.520 a home for thine self. Part She'd grown up in 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.800 New York, but headed out west with her guide Jack 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.359 to start a life together. And they set off with 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.760 only a car load of essentials, but she brought a 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.640 handful of precious items with her too. And I played 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.520 violin all the way through high school and then just 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:10.920 for enjoyment, and I had an antique box with diaries 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.839 in it. They landed in Colorado, bought some land on 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.600 Sugar Loaf Mountain, and Jack started to build a house 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.239 using all sorts of salvage materials. We had the bumper 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:25.440 car pavilion floor from ilitch Is, which was an amusement 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:31.040 park in Denver, and we had radiators from Shannon's, which 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.080 was a biker bar in Boulder. They were those old 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.280 metal banded up with a one of a kind home 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.760 full of red stuff and unusual features stories built right 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.160 into the walls. They had a little girl and the 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:46.359 boy went into family mode, the years unspooling as years do, 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:53.240 but then everything went off script. In nine we went 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:58.200 on a vacation. We were watching the news and we 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:02.679 saw I think it was CNN, they said a fire 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:06.920 is raging out of control in Boulder, Colorado. I said, wow, 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.880 that looks like our road, and I'm known to catastrophize. 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.440 So Jack said, no, that's not our road. That's further 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.800 west than us. Everything's fine, don't worry, but not too much. 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.880 Later the phone rang. One of my best friends who 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.520 lived in town in Boulder called me and said, is 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.680 Jack there, which is never a good question. You know 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.080 you're going to hear some bad news and maybe pass out, 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.159 so they want they want somebody there with you. I 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.400 said yes, and she said there's a fire in your neighborhood. 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.919 Everything is not fine. And I had a picture in 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.480 my mind of a corner of the house being gone, 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.520 or maybe the curtains having caught em fire. But then 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:52.760 she said it's gone, it's all gone. Oh gosh, the 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.240 house exploded before the flames even got there because it 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.800 was so hot. Wow. I have a few tears in 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:03.400 my eyes. Um. When we came back, we stood at 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.280 the foundation and looked down into the hole that was 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:11.200 left the house Jack built, my hand gone, the antique violin, 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.760 all her diaries gone, and everything had fallen down into 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.320 the foundation, and you could still see the words on 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.440 the pages, even though everything was all burned, and some 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.800 of that was my journals. Oh my god, I'm so sorry. 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.240 It was quite a lot. Candy and Jack had less 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.360 than when they started. And I would also say that 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.200 the fire was kind of the beginning of our splitting 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:40.600 up to their marriage didn't survive the fire. Candy says 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.640 that was partly because Jack's connection to the place was 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.040 incinerated along with all their stuff. The emotional link was 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.240 broken when the material anchors gave way, and he wanted 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.800 to leave, to go someplace new. Candy wanted to stay, 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.640 to start again where they were in normal life, you know, 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:00.240 without the extremes of like fires and floods. Think it 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.440 can be kind of tempting to imagine there's the world 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:06.240 of stuff and then there's the world of our personal relationships, right, 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.320 But it sounds like those two worlds aren't completely as 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.160 strictly separate. No, they're not, particularly when some of that 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.920 stuff is a house that you've put your heart and 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.680 soul into and your stuff is part of the picture 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.800 that you have, and the picture has your relationships in it, 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.680 and it has your stuff in it. But when all 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.000 of that stuff has gone and the picture has changed 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:31.720 that dramatically, it changes your personal relationship as well. I 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:41.040 think years and years ago, I found a half used 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.360 yellow legal pad at my mom's house. On the top page, 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.640 neat straight line had been drawn down the middle, and 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:49.559 there was a short list of stuff on either side, 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.320 elemental stuff like car or house. I don't remember all 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.400 the items exactly because they're obscured by the big wave 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:58.440 of feelings that hit me when I realized what I 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.880 was looking at. I was looking at my parents divorce. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.199 I'd know only hadn't hired a lawyer to expense it, 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.080 but I'd never considered the mechanics of a d i 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.800 y version of marital dissolution, like two people sitting at 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.240 a table with a pen and a pad, dividing all 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.920 their worldly possessions on either side of a sketched line. 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.880 It was such a sad and humble piece of paper, 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.560 but also deeply moving to me because it was their 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.480 alternative to court dates and legal battles that would have 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:35.680 divided the assorted possessions of twenty years together. For a while, 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.160 that sheet of paper itself was really precious to me. 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:44.599 We keep things for all sorts of reasons. One of 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.679 the most powerful emotional reasons is sentimental value, where people 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:52.000 will really value something which is of no worth to 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:56.000 anyone else, but objects form part of our identities. That's 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.800 Bruce again, our developmental psychologist, who, for what it's worth, 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.640 has a soft spot for horror movie posters and golden 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.160 eraw Hollywood stuff and a sidebar. If his voice rings 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.720 familiar to you die hard, deeply human fans out there, 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.440 it's because he made an appearance on the Spooked episode 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.680 in season one, or maybe you just went to high 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.520 school with him or something. He says that our ability 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.160 to own things and to catch feelings for him is 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.079 historically linked to the way we grow our food. So, 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.719 you know, when we transition from hunter gatherers into sort 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.400 of settling down and farming and raising cattle and things 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.760 like that, and then going off to fight wars, we 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.800 had to have a system of rules, which meant that 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.080 when we came back from the wars, we had our property. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.520 Is it the case that throughout history we've had really 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:44.360 different understandings of what kinds of things are eligible for ownership. Yeah, 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.280 so that's absolutely true. So that was the origin of 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.520 a lot of the misunderstandings with the invasion of North 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.679 America because the indigenous people didn't have a concept of 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.400 anyone owning the land. That seemed ridiculous. And that's why 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.360 they sold something like Manhattan for forty two hours or 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.480 whatever it was, because they didn't have a kind of 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:08.760 understanding how that could ever be a binding agreement. And 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.600 now in that same Manhattan, we've expanded our concept of 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.720 ownership to encompass almost mythical realms. You can own other 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.280 people's debt or soybeans that haven't been planted yet. You 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.480 can shot for shoes twenty four hours a day without 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.440 putting on any to leave your own house. You can 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:28.240 order custom bubbleheads or a bag of Ladybugs delivered to 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.160 your door front of twenty bucks. Our world is a 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:46.920 veritable bonanza of sale stuff and ownership. I worked with 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.840 one lady, very complex lady, for about ten ten years 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.920 after she had the miscarriage. She was acquiring and awarding 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.560 baby clothes and baby toys in response to that loss. 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.280 That is Joe Cook. She's the director of Hoarding Disorders 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.600 UK and she works with people whose stuff threatens to 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.200 overwhelm the rest of their lives. She got into the 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.560 business of organizing and decluttering because of her own experience 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.240 with her dad. After my father died, it took me 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.199 four months to clear the family home out. He was Polish. 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:25.439 He grew up during the war. He remembers his parents 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:29.600 sacrificing their food to give to him. He hated any 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:34.280 kind of food waste, but he also hated throwing anything away. 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.960 There are people that have emotional attachments to things where 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.160 they find it difficult to let go of an empty 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.800 Chris packet a newspaper from thirty years ago. Acquiring and 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.440 keeping stuff can be a self soothing maneuver, a response 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:54.520 to loss or uncertainty or scarcity, the emotional installation, as 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.200 I call it. I think we can all relate to 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.800 how we responded to the pandemic. I mean, who didn't 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.520 go out and buy more petrol, Who didn't go out 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.200 buy more Loo rolls or extra tins of soup? In 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:11.680 terms of responding to anxious times. But by the time 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:15.400 a prospective client calls Joe. Their lives have usually reached 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.840 a crisis point. People might not be able to sleep 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.480 in their bed, cook on their oven, or be able 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.040 to use a bath, or it might well be that 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.280 the hoarding has attracted vermin. It can be hard to 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.520 ask for help because hoarding has been so stigmatized in 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:33.800 pop culture, but that's changing. The World Health Organization now 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.440 treats hoarding behaviors as part of a medical condition. But 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.600 letting go of stuff can be hard for a lot 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:44.719 of us. The declutterer Maria Condo is like an international superstar. 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.440 Joe notes that a history of scarcity might make someone 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:52.520 afraid to toss out even extraneous items, and grief might 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.480 make throwing away a loved one's bathrobe feel like a 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.959 denigration of their memory. People are now recognizing that actually, 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.360 body isn't about people that are lazy and dirty. It's 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.920 getting people to recognize and to understand and look at. 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.120 We call it the meaning and the mess, the meaning 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.439 in the mess. Well, let's turn back to Candy, who 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:17.000 we left standing over a particularly meaningful mess, looking into 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.160 the ashes of her home with Jack. Their split was 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.680 hard and messy at first, but over time, temper is 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.560 cool and Candy moved into a house outside of Boulder, Colorado, 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.520 near enough to Jack's new place, but on the days 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:32.680 the kids spent with her, they could see him flashing 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.680 a mirror from his porch to say hello. And after 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.400 a walk one day, Candy and a friend stood talking 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:42.520 in her new home when something caught their eye. We 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:46.040 were standing oh by a window, and we looked up 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.120 and she said, oh, my god, is that smoke. My 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:53.280 landline was ringing and it was a reverse nine one 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.760 one call saying you need to evacuate, And I said, 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.160 I think we need to go over to Jack's and 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:04.840 get stuff out of his house. Another fire was headed 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.880 their way, and both Candy and Jack's new houses were 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.960 in its path. Jack, at that time was headed out 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.440 of town on vacation with his new wife, but Candy 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.440 caught him on the phone. Do you want me to 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.640 go over and get anything? Jack just kind of rolled 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.640 his eyes into there she goes again, catastrophizing it was 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:29.920 it was a pattern in our relationship. Everything is not fine. 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.560 And then about twenty minutes later he called back and 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:35.720 he said, well, maybe there's a few things you could get. 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.320 Candy and her friend raced over, and it was already 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.160 so hot that they were afraid the paint on the 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:45.000 car would melt. Jack's house sitters had already fled. They 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.480 left the door open, so Candy and her friend just 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:52.000 ran in started putting stuff in boxes, two computers, Jack's briefcase, 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.720 which was essentially his office, the art hanging in the 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.160 kid's rooms. By the time we left, I could see flames. 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.680 We then, probably three hours um, someone called me and 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.600 said that they had heard the propane tank at his 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.680 house explode. It burned to the ground. He lost everything. 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.560 Oh my god. Not everyone would drive into the smoking 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.400 heart of a wildfire, risking life and limb to save 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.600 a few boxes of stuff for her ex husband, even 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.320 after being dismissed as overreactive after the hard divorce. But 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.160 Candy understood what was really at stake, and she knew 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.040 exactly what losing a home and all the things inside 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.840 it could do to somebody's whole life. I think it 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.640 was us against the fire. In my mind, it was like, God, 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.000 damn it, this is not going to happen a second time. 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.680 We are not going to lose everything a second time. 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.920 Bruce Hood argues that our strong compulsion to own and 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:51.240 keep things is a basic impulse potentially driven by evolutionary forces. 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.680 Collecting property might be a way of signaling our status, 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.560 that our stuff was essentially proof of our fitness. Chest 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:02.880 pass to Bruce think that humans are inclined to competition 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:07.439 because of well, we were competing to reproduce. And the 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.920 more that you have, the more that you're signaling your 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.439 competence or your ability to provide for future generations. So 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.919 there's a kind of real imperative to China accumulate as 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:21.320 much as you can control. According to this theory, our 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:25.760 possessions were one way to signal status, dominance power. But 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.080 of course our attachment to stuff isn't driven only by 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:33.920 ancient forces. It's also driven by ads on Instagram or 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.800 the fancy window displays on Fifth Avenue. The TV commercials 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.359 were the hottest. A list actor looks into the middle 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.840 distance with an expression of sensuous boredom to help selk alone, 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.840 like it's marketing man, think about something like a celebrity endorsement. 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.120 All right, that was something which was meant by John 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:55.520 Watson is a psychologist academic footnote here. John Watson American 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.160 active during the first half of the twentieth century known 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.000 for advertising campaigns that appeal to consumers. Deep psychological means 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.320 if you realize that if you pair certain desirable things together, 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.360 people make the association that owning one will achieve the other. 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.240 And so he just figured, let's get all these celebrities, 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.119 these heroes that people worship to smoke certain brands of 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.080 cigarettes or use certain toothpastes, and then that's why people 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:21.240 would buy it in an attempt to emulate their heroes. Hi, 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:26.439 I'm Dessa, host of the self referential hit program Deeply Human, 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:31.240 and fans often ask Dessa, with your dulcet voice and 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:35.400 poignant insights on human behavior, what sort of nonstick cookwear 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.320 could you recommend? Is there anything that's easy to clean 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.840 an oven safe? Well, let me tell you. When I'm 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.880 not cooking up another episode of Deeply Human, you can 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.560 find me at the stove using Dessa's Deep Dishes brand 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:52.760 cookery items. I'm too busy cleaning up of the podcast 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:57.800 to words to worry about cleaning up pots and pants. 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.320 Enough already, James Faub. When you've got your own brand 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:08.159 of cookery items, holler. Big ad agencies launch huge campaigns 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.800 trying to link consumer goods with status and prestige and 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.520 then pushing in exactly the opposite direction. Is a blogger 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.680 named Mr Money Mustache, a dude who has been called 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.840 the Frugal Guru by The New Yorker. What I realized 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.720 at one point is that I hadn't just started a blog. 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:29.760 I started sort of a fake ironic cult. Pete aideny 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.399 a k a. Mr. Money Mustache is like a cross 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.919 between a cartoon gold prospector and a counterculture warrior fighting 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.720 conspicuous consumption. He got Internet famous by advocating a low 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:46.480 spend lifestyle and a really aggressive saving strategy. But before 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.679 Pete had any money or a mustache, he was a 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.720 boy in a small town of Caledonia in Canada. It's 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.680 a working class community with a simple lifestyle. You don't 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.360 really have much to compare yourself against. And I think 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.000 that's a really healthy thing, because human nature is to 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.520 compare ourselves with the richest people and then wonder why 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.520 we can't have that. My dad was a frugal guy 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.960 and he liked to keep things reasonable, So we were 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.320 always like the last family to get the cool stuff, 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:14.280 the last one to get a microwave, of and last 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.520 one to get a nicer TV or VCR, all these 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.400 nighties things that other people had. But what I realized 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.200 later they were fairly well off, like, you know, fairly 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.159 middle income, probably higher than some of my friends. But 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:33.560 we had a lot less stuff. And Pete made note 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:35.720 it was important not to spend too much of what 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.560 you earned. When he first got a tech job in 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.560 the US, he thought he was making a killing. But 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.200 my co workers are like, oh, yeah, it's just enough. 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.679 You know, things are so expensive these days. But he 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.680 built his life to cause less. He biked the commute, 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.000 for example, instead of leasing sleek new wheels. The reason 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:54.720 I could do that is because I chose to buy 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.399 a house that was, you know, within ten miles of 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.600 work or less. And they were driving their mw is 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.920 in from a super distant suburb because like, we looked 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.119 the same and we had the same salary. But I 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.600 was just able to save like more than half of it, 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.520 and they were saving sometimes zero, going further and further 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.720 into debt over the years. Meanwhile, he was going in 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.600 the other direction, saving and investing a considerable chunk of 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.600 his take home pay, which was possible because he wasn't 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.399 buying a ton of stuff, and within about seven or 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.800 eight years that was enough to live off forever, just 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:32.240 passively off of the you know, the dividends and income 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.439 from owning a few shares. Those of you familiar with 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.200 the Fire movements are no doubt yelling at the radio 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.159 by now, But for the uninitiated, Pete is one of 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:45.000 many finance writers connected to a lifestyle trend sometimes referred 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:50.280 to by the acronym fire financial independence retire Early devotees 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.600 save up to sevent of their annual earnings and are 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:56.879 generally very eager to talk with you about it. Individual 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.399 mileage berries. But our good rule of thumb is you 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:02.200 can retire or in about ten years if you're willing 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:05.800 to live humble and stay super disciplined. The savings at 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.760 up and according to Mr money Mustache, that doesn't have 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.520 to mean crazy sacrifices. Just think of it this way. 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:15.920 Whatever you're spending is, does anybody in your country live 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.960 on half of your level of spending? And I'm sure 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.520 that answer is yes. And then is it possible that 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.720 any of those people are happy, having like fulfilling, great 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:28.440 happy lives, maybe even more fulfilling than your life. Well, 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:30.560 you know there's millions of people in every country, so 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:34.680 you're damn right there is. The fire movement has definitely 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:38.480 received some heat from being cheap, but Mr money Mustache 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.520 explains it's really about clarifying your priorities. Does buying a 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.040 new wide screen TV really make you happier than if 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.159 you just played with your kids for all the hours 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:52.000 that you spent working to buy the TV. Mustachio Ism 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:55.960 isn't about self denial, and the lifestyle isn't all that monastic. 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:59.040 I like to use the term slightly less ridiculous because 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:03.320 it's still ridiculous. Like Mustachians, we all live luxurious lives. 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.720 We can do air travel, we live in climate control houses, 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:10.120 we even have cars. But we're just being slightly less 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:13.199 ridiculous than other people. It's not a life spent in 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.240 recliners either were Early retirement is about it. It's not 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:18.760 about quitting work. It's about freeing you to do your 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:22.440 best work. At the heart of the Mustache there is 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:24.679 a message that is as much about ethics as it 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.760