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Speaker 1: lot of great content. You're going to enjoy it. Hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: welcome to an episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I

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Speaker 1: am Devin, joined as usual by the two Jabronies, Joe

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Speaker 1: and Steve. And what's the brown? Is that like a

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Speaker 1: piece of sausage or I think it's like an animal.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like an animals private parts or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I probably don't want to know. You're probably right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: meat product noted anyway, Today we're gonna talk about a

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Speaker 1: disappearance of Ronald Tammon. It was suggested by Lily on

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Speaker 1: Facebook a really long time ago. I believe this disappearance

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Speaker 1: that we're gonna talk about takes place in nineteen fifty three.

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Speaker 1: He Ronald Tamon Jr. Disappeared from his dorm in Oxford, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: at the Miami University. Because apparently I have a for

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Speaker 1: students who disappear in Ohio. As long as you do.

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Speaker 1: But as long as we get to school right this time,

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Speaker 1: I think we're okay, we can just we can do

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Speaker 1: another one. This one Miami University for sure. Sweet yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it's in Ohio not Miami, which is just not

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Speaker 1: confusing at all. I was a little confused by that

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Speaker 1: at first. I didn't, you know, because I was thinking, Okay, Miami, Florida,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they started talking about them like the

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Speaker 1: Midwest and stuff, and I know, what's what? Yeah, yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: it's Ohio. Yeah. So Ronald Henry Tammon Jr. Is the

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Speaker 1: full name of the gentleman that disappeared. He was nineteen

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Speaker 1: on April nineteen, nineteen fifty three. He was a sophomore

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Speaker 1: at Miami University. He was a resident advisor, a member

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Speaker 1: of the Navy r OTC. He was a frat member

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Speaker 1: Reserve Army Training Corpses. Believe it's what you're right. That

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Speaker 1: would have been our a TC so um. He was

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Speaker 1: a member of a fraternity back when that meant something.

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Speaker 1: It isn't just you know, drunken antics. I'm really excitedful

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Speaker 1: the emails we're going to get about that one. He

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Speaker 1: was a varse city wrestler, He was a bassist, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: He was I mean, he was really like an all

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Speaker 1: American boy who he kind of just seemed to say

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Speaker 1: yes to every opportunity that came along for him. He

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Speaker 1: was very involved. He was very stereotypical of the time.

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Speaker 1: He was seventy five pounds, dark hair, light eyes, brown hair,

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Speaker 1: dark brown hair, light eyes, like really just like the

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Speaker 1: all American nondescript. You know, you you picture the college

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Speaker 1: boy in the nineteen fifties, and that's him. Yeah. Some

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Speaker 1: days before the nineteenth it's reported. We're just gonna go

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Speaker 1: chronologically here, I tell you, because I already told you.

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Speaker 1: He disappeared from his dorm room. That's the mystery. This

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Speaker 1: is an easy way to appeach It makes it actually

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Speaker 1: easy to follow. Yeah, I think so. Actually, I think

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Speaker 1: it's a little easier than a lot of the ways

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Speaker 1: that they report it. You mean, where they report half

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Speaker 1: and half and then the other half. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: there's like twelve paragraphs in between about who knows what.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like I was reading what was it Esquire,

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Speaker 1: an online Esquire article today, and I started skipping entire

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Speaker 1: paragraphs because it was just like, bounce around filler content. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you just make a living, make so this is really nice.

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Speaker 1: And actually one of the articles that Devon linked to

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Speaker 1: in this one, I skipped a bunch of paragraphs because

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Speaker 1: they were describing a prompt photo. Yes, I did that,

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Speaker 1: and then I read a sentence. I skipped about five

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Speaker 1: more paragraphs. I got through that one really fast. Actually, really,

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Speaker 1: that article was really really interesting for me. But I

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Speaker 1: agree there was some filler and not a lot of information. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well there was some. There was interesting information, not not

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Speaker 1: killer information, but good backfill. Yeah. It was interesting for

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Speaker 1: understanding Ron, not so much the case anyway. Cool. Some

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Speaker 1: days before the nineteenth it's reported that Ron went to

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Speaker 1: get his blood type tested. Now he paid for this

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Speaker 1: procedure off campus when it sounds like it was a

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Speaker 1: free p future on campus, And can I ask how

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Speaker 1: do I know? I'm going to ask this for a

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Speaker 1: lot of this because a lot of things in this case.

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Speaker 1: You're just stated, is it just a generally accepted fact

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Speaker 1: that that was free or do we know that it

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Speaker 1: was free? Okay, it is reported that it was free,

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Speaker 1: and we also know that he did go off and

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Speaker 1: did pay for it because the corner did the testing, right.

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Speaker 1: I knew about the I knew about the actual test.

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Speaker 1: It was the free portion that I could never really pin. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was part of it was part of student health services. Plus,

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Speaker 1: you can also go to the Red Cross and donate

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Speaker 1: blood and they'll type people out for free to even

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Speaker 1: at that day and age the Red crosses around wasn't

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Speaker 1: it was, but actually one of the you you often

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Speaker 1: had to get your blood typed first before you could

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Speaker 1: go donate it in those days. That was one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons that people suggested he might have gotten his

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Speaker 1: blood typed. But it doesn't necessarily explain why he would

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Speaker 1: have gone and paid for it because it was twenty

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Speaker 1: dollars to have the corner do it versus free and

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Speaker 1: twenty back in fifty three was kind of a lot

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Speaker 1: of money and there it wasn't like Boogo bucks, but

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Speaker 1: it was, you know not Yeah, it's not something that

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Speaker 1: a normal college kid would be like, oh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: can throw that away on this thing over a hundred

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Speaker 1: bucks today. You know, I'm sorry I interrupted you. Where

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Speaker 1: so he went and got his blood type off campus? Yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: like I said, a lot of people find this to

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Speaker 1: be kind of suspicious, like he was planning something, and

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Speaker 1: to be totally honest with you, it does confuse me

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Speaker 1: the motives behind, you know, going to spend you know

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Speaker 1: what is essentially more than a hundred dollars on something

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Speaker 1: that you could get done for free. But we'll dig

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Speaker 1: into that a little more when we start talking about theories.

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Speaker 1: It's just something that you should know about. Background wise,

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Speaker 1: nineteenth of April in Ohio was reportedly very cold outside,

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Speaker 1: like record setting cold in Columbus, which is only seventy

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Speaker 1: eighty miles away from Miami, Ohio. In fact, the coldest

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Speaker 1: April nineteenth on record is nineteen fifty three. This same year,

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Speaker 1: it was I think it was nineteen degrees outside fahrenheit

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Speaker 1: or something like that. It was frigid. Whether people live

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Speaker 1: there and well it does, it's not usually that's that's record.

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Speaker 1: Usually it's kind of you know, in the sixties seven. No,

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Speaker 1: it's usually a nice like it's kind of like it

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Speaker 1: is in Portland Sea. But this was this was extremely abnormal,

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Speaker 1: which is why we even bring it up because he

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Speaker 1: did go disappearing on a night that go disappearing, did

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Speaker 1: disappear on a night where it was abnormally cold. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't like an you wouldn't be inclined to go out

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Speaker 1: in that kind of weather exactly, especially in his state.

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Speaker 1: Got it. So, as far as we know, this is

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Speaker 1: how things went. At about eight p m. On April nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: Ron called the house mom, which is a bit tricky

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Speaker 1: for me because he was r a in a dorm

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Speaker 1: and usually I associate house moms with like fraternities and sororities.

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Speaker 1: But I guess that was the thing that existed back then. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, now it's like, well, I think the differences

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Speaker 1: and it was kind of a even though you were

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Speaker 1: a young adult, you were not smart enough to take

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Speaker 1: care of yourself, and therefore there had to be a

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Speaker 1: woman around help you take care of those things that

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Speaker 1: you couldn't figure out how to do, because it's the

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Speaker 1: fifties mentality. I'm not here, but well, also in those days, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, colleges were expected to look after you and

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Speaker 1: not just physically but also your more morally speaking to

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Speaker 1: there were adults living in the dorms to make sure

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Speaker 1: that nobody was like boozing it up, having sex, etcetera, etcetera. Panky, yeah,

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Speaker 1: especially the hacky panky part. Yeah. Yeah, hanky panky was

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Speaker 1: the biggest offense. The sex and the booze were bad,

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Speaker 1: but the hanky panky terrible. And I can totally I

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Speaker 1: can totally see too the same thing adult supervision. You'd

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Speaker 1: have the house mother there to doll out the sheets

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Speaker 1: in the pillow cases so that you know, all the

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Speaker 1: kids don't take them and like gonna make you ghost

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Speaker 1: costumes out of them or banner tellt Yeah, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: when I mean when I went to college not so

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Speaker 1: long ago, two years ago, you provided your own you

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Speaker 1: could ride your own sheets. So this is totally different

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Speaker 1: to me, but I understand it was a totally different era.

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Speaker 1: So there was a there was a house mom. The

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Speaker 1: reason that Ron called the house mom. In fact, was

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Speaker 1: because his sheets were soiled and he needed a new

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Speaker 1: set of sheets. Soiled as sheets? Did he? Yeah? Why

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Speaker 1: were they soiled? And you may ask, apparently there was

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Speaker 1: a dead fish in his bed when he got back

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Speaker 1: to his dorm room. Oh you see, it's a dead fish.

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Speaker 1: You see, I'm going to that's that's that's what it was, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was actually, Okay, there was actually dead fish. I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't think it was. Actually No, I just

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Speaker 1: made all of the blather that I just did. I

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Speaker 1: don't make a bad accent. Yeah, okay, let's put this

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Speaker 1: on hold while I got to read it and started

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Speaker 1: read it throat And how did the fish get there? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's say any theories we get. Yeah, so, actually at

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Speaker 1: eight thirty, it took about a half hour for his

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Speaker 1: new sheets to arrive. It sounds like he somehow cleans

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Speaker 1: up after the dead fish. I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: sends the soiled fishy mess with the house mom. I

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Speaker 1: don't know whose responsibility it was to clean up after

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Speaker 1: suffer life. I doubt that he would hand her the

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Speaker 1: dead fish. I bet he disposed of that himself. He

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Speaker 1: sounds like a nice boy. Well, I would also say

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Speaker 1: that where wherever the new sheets were picked up from

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Speaker 1: her delivered by would also be where the smelly fishy

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Speaker 1: sheets would have been left at or handed over to. Well,

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Speaker 1: but the the house mom broth the sheets to him,

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Speaker 1: which means I would guess he gave her his his

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Speaker 1: soiled to the laundry. Yeah. I mean, that's the only

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Speaker 1: way it makes sense. It's not like he's just gonna

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Speaker 1: hang him up in his room to air drive. And

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Speaker 1: he probably had already moved the dead fish into somebody

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Speaker 1: else's bed yeah, yeah, or hopefully like a trash can

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Speaker 1: or a flower bed maybe outside. Yeah. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how dorms worked in those days. Really, to be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, I just don't understand it. He said that

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Speaker 1: the dead fish was a prank played on him by

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Speaker 1: another student or fraternity member maybe um, but other people

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Speaker 1: on the internet it again, we'll get into this a

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Speaker 1: little bit later, but some people think that he was

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Speaker 1: lying about the purpose behind the dead fish. Remind me,

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Speaker 1: we get into the theories and I'll talk about the

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Speaker 1: dead fish in the bed things. I really don't want

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Speaker 1: to talk about a story again. But okay, do you

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Speaker 1: think maybe he murdered the fish. No, I just know.

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Speaker 1: I just know the story that Steve wants to tell him.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like I need to hear it again.

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Speaker 1: But well, it's never been on recording, so we'll do

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Speaker 1: it again. It's there, we go. Yeah. It's also said

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Speaker 1: that he was planning on studying for the rest of

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Speaker 1: the night, although I don't really know. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how we get a lot of this information after the

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Speaker 1: house Mom, Yeah, I thought he had been talking to

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Speaker 1: a friend and said, yeah, I gotta go study. I

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Speaker 1: gotta testimony. I thought so too. And it's and it's different.

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Speaker 1: You know. Sometimes it says he's studying history, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: it said he's studying psychology. I don't really know which

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Speaker 1: is correct. I don't think they had psychology in nineteen

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Speaker 1: they did. The psychology has been around for a long time, Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was just under a different name. I just didn't

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Speaker 1: think anybody took it back in those days. He was

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Speaker 1: business major, so you know, I don't really know what

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Speaker 1: it was that he was taking. But it is also

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Speaker 1: reported that around nine Ron heard something outside his dorm

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Speaker 1: room that disturbed him. But again, I don't know how

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Speaker 1: the heck we would know that. This is such a

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Speaker 1: leading statement that drives me bonkers because it is copy

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Speaker 1: and pasted everywhere on the internet and there's nothing nobody

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Speaker 1: could have known that. But I was thinking about that too,

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Speaker 1: and the only the only explanation I could come up

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Speaker 1: with that is that people heard a noise, Like more

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Speaker 1: than one person heard a noise coming from somewhere, and

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Speaker 1: they assumed, you know, well somebody he must have gotten

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Speaker 1: up to investigate the noise that I didn't bother to investigate. Well,

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Speaker 1: he was maybe, So that's what I'm thinking. That other

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Speaker 1: people heard a noise of some sort. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: that would be the only that would That was kind

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Speaker 1: of my assumption is that a bunch of people heard

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Speaker 1: it and poked their heads out, and he said, Okay, everybody,

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Speaker 1: you know, get back to your rooms. I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: check it out. But that's no explanation. I have no idea.

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Speaker 1: But that's not how it's reported. It's just reported that

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Speaker 1: he wanted to investigate a dead noise or a disturbing noise.

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Speaker 1: I think the problem is when this story was originally reported,

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Speaker 1: they only had four lines to put it into, and

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Speaker 1: so a lot of this trimmathea. About ten PM, his

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Speaker 1: roommate Charles Finlay, came home and found Ron's death light

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Speaker 1: on his physiology, psychology history, whatever it was. He was studying,

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Speaker 1: book open radio on and his belongings, including keys to

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Speaker 1: the dorm and his car, wallet, I d money, all

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Speaker 1: in their usual spot in their dorm room, but Ron

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Speaker 1: was gone. His roommate said that he thought maybe Ron

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Speaker 1: had gone to spend the night at the frat house

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Speaker 1: or something, which I don't know why you would have

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Speaker 1: left all this stuff, but okay, that makes no sense

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Speaker 1: of he left his coat, right, Yeah, he left all

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Speaker 1: of his stuff. Yeah, But Charles went to bed anyway

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Speaker 1: because I guess he just assumed, you know, it's Ron's deal.

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Speaker 1: If it's not nothing I need to really worry about.

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Speaker 1: And then he woke with the next morning and Ron

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Speaker 1: was still gone. So they notified the authorities. What did

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Speaker 1: they find? Nothing? Nothing? Actually actually yes, kind of spoiler alert.

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Speaker 1: Steve was being a smartass, but it's true. The police

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Speaker 1: found Ron's green car. It was like a nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: nine something or other that was either way. He found

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Speaker 1: his nineteen thirties car parked in its normal spot. Um

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Speaker 1: with his bass in it. Still. That's one thing I

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Speaker 1: find on is that you would leave your musical instrument

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Speaker 1: in the back of your car when it's like nineteen

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Speaker 1: degrees out this I would not do that with like

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Speaker 1: my guitar. Well, And that's the thing is that he

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Speaker 1: was what it was it was it a bass guitar

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Speaker 1: or was I thought it was something? It was like

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Speaker 1: an upright bass. Oh it was okay, so which is

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Speaker 1: a big instrument. But even that, I mean, they have

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Speaker 1: it's not they don't use steal strings. I'm guessing they

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Speaker 1: would your normal natural filament strings. Whatever it is that

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Speaker 1: that is that does not do well in a very

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Speaker 1: cold environment. For yeah, I know, what would an instrument

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Speaker 1: really You don't want to subject it to a lot

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Speaker 1: of extremes and temperature, which leaving in a car would

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Speaker 1: seem to do, whether it's cold or hot. So that,

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Speaker 1: I agree, really odd thing. It's kind of odd to

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Speaker 1: have done. Maybe he was planning on leaving town or

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean he played a gig that day,

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Speaker 1: hadn't he, So I mean maybe he was thinking he

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Speaker 1: was going to go back out and get it later on.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that could have been which I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but maybe Yeah, I don't really know why he would

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Speaker 1: have left it in his car, but he did. And

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Speaker 1: you know, nothing else really was missing. I mean nothing

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Speaker 1: really at all of Ron's was missing. And that's the

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Speaker 1: last that we I mean, presumably the clothes that he

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Speaker 1: had been wearing. He didn't even take his tooth rush. Yeah, nothing,

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Speaker 1: nothing was really missing. And that's it. That's all we've

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Speaker 1: ever heard of roun. Okay, Yeah, there there's more stuff

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Speaker 1: on here. You're not just ending us there, I am. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the end of episode. Just kidding. One final note

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Speaker 1: here before we move onto theories, because there's just like

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Speaker 1: nothing to this story, unfortunately, is that the summer after

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Speaker 1: Rown disappeared, a citizen witness named Mrs Carl Spivy so

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Speaker 1: you know, she didn't have a first name. She didn't

303
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Speaker 1: because she belongs to her husband or whatever. She was

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Speaker 1: a kind of a nearby resident told police officers that

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Speaker 1: somebody matching Tomas description had come to her door around

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Speaker 1: midnight on April nineteen. She said that the man looked disheveled.

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Speaker 1: He was wearing only a T shirt and pants, which

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Speaker 1: seems strange for the freezing temperatures. Which is true. And

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Speaker 1: then she said that the man was looking for a

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Speaker 1: bus stop, but further investigation found that the Oxford bus

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Speaker 1: lines had been suspended for the night, so he it

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Speaker 1: would have been impossible for him to take the bus. Yea,

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Speaker 1: she said that, Yeah, I heard that. She said he

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Speaker 1: was polite and then thanks her and all that stuff,

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Speaker 1: but she was sure that it was wrong. I mean

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Speaker 1: she was sure. Almost everyone else is not sure. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so let me ask clarifying detail, because I don't remember

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Speaker 1: seeing the Dayton. This says the summer after according to

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Speaker 1: the quote you've got here, is that months later? Or

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Speaker 1: is that a year and months later? Months later? So

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Speaker 1: it's okay, okay, so that's still to three months later

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Speaker 1: when his stuff has been all over the newspaper. Again,

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Speaker 1: these are the we always complain about, these, these later

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Speaker 1: second hand accounts of him after I was informed by

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Speaker 1: the newspapers. How does she remember that specific night for sure? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: diary or or you know, that was the one night

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Speaker 1: that it was nineteen degrees outside, and the rest of

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Speaker 1: the nights around it could have been not as cold,

329
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Speaker 1: could have been much warmer. I mean, you know the

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Speaker 1: weather we're having here in Portland. Right, it's like high seventies,

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Speaker 1: and then we've got two days coming up. They're supposed

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Speaker 1: to be in the fifties and I'm supposed to be

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Speaker 1: back up to the seventies and eighties. So I didn't

334
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,560
Speaker 1: managed to find out a lot of information about the

335
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Speaker 1: weather surrounding this day. But it's possible. But it's possible

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Speaker 1: that it was like, you know, kind of normal April

337
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 1: weather and then this one freezing cold day for whatever reason,

338
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,879
Speaker 1: or there could be some other reason. It could have

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00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,800
Speaker 1: been there at wedding anniversary, birthday something, you know. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did read it, or she could just be full

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Speaker 1: of it. I did read a small little interview with

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Speaker 1: her son, who had been home at the time because

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Speaker 1: she had passed away by the time this this guy

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Speaker 1: was investigating, and he said he remembered the guy coming,

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00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,960
Speaker 1: but he also remembered that one of the reasons that

346
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 1: it stood out to him was because it was one

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Speaker 1: of the only nights that his father was gone, So

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00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 1: it could have been something like that as well. That

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Speaker 1: she remembered that a strange man came to the door

350
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Speaker 1: while her husband was gone, and that was the night

351
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Speaker 1: that he was working and okay, and it was the

352
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 1: vacuum salesman and mysterious nine months later his little brother

353
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 1: was bo. That's not how it happened, okay, but investigators

354
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,919
Speaker 1: are pretty sure that was actually not ron. Yeah. I

355
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,919
Speaker 1: mean there is some stuff, but we'll talk about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

356
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,199
Speaker 1: The current guy that I was just talking about, his

357
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 1: name is Detective Smith, because that's, you know, easy enough

358
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Speaker 1: to remember it is. So with that, twenty minutes in,

359
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,680
Speaker 1: you have heard our entire story. So you guys want

360
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Speaker 1: to talk about theories? Okay, okay, Well, I guess we

361
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 1: should take a break first. If you've ever read The

362
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Speaker 1: Green Mile, you know what a lovable and relatable character

363
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Speaker 1: John Coffee is. He was so calm and mild that

364
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Speaker 1: it was impossible to think that he could be guilty

365
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Speaker 1: of the crimes that he was convicted of. The man

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00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 1: was a literal gentle giant, and in the end we

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Speaker 1: would learn that he was also innocent. Sorry, spoiler too late.

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Speaker 1: In those the prose of the author, though, he understands

369
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Speaker 1: the world in a way that none of can, and

370
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 1: he's willing to accept his fate in order to escape it.

371
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Speaker 1: But of course that's fiction, and in the real world.

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00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: It rarely works that way. Did you know that four

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Speaker 1: percent of all defendants sentenced to death have later proven

374
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Speaker 1: to be innocent. Now, imagine serving twenty years in prison

375
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 1: knowing you didn't do the crime. It happens all the

376
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: time in this country. If you're a fan of this podcast,

377
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 1: you're gonna get hooked on the upcoming Stars original series

378
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Speaker 1: Wrong Man. From the Emmy winning filmmaker of Paradise Lost,

379
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 1: Joe Berlinger. This new docuseries follows the stories of three

380
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 1: inmates who have all maintained their innocence for two decades. Now,

381
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 1: these three men have one last chance at freedom. Over

382
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383
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384
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385
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386
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 1: Get the Stars app and start your free trial today

387
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,600
Speaker 1: and we're back. Well, I guess one thing to get

388
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 1: out of the way right away is that the police

389
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: at the time decided that since Ron was quote unquote rugged, yeah,

390
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: there was no possibility of foul play right exactly, he was. Actually,

391
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: it was a wrestler, he's probably in really good shape. Yeah,

392
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: But another thing about it is, I don't think you

393
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 1: can totally rule out foul play just because the guy was,

394
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: you know, muscular and in good shape. I'm sorry, but

395
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 1: being muscular in good shape does not prevent a bullet

396
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: from entering your body. And you know, if there's like

397
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: five dudes trying to kidnap you. But yeah, yeah, exactly, so, yeah,

398
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,239
Speaker 1: she will tear you up. Well yeah, yeah. Well, so

399
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: now that we've got that out of the way, we

400
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 1: know that you clearly had to just have run away

401
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: on his own, right, Alright, But and there's some series

402
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 1: as to why he would have done that. There are

403
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 1: there are, actually, there are a lot of theories that

404
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: integrate both foul play and not. So let's go ahead

405
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: and just run down the list. Some of these are

406
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: better than others. True. The first theory that you will

407
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: see out there is that actually Ron was a draft

408
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 1: dodger because, as you may or may not know, in

409
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 1: fifty three, that's just about when they started doing the

410
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: draft for the Korean War. Fun times. Yeah, but he

411
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 1: was serving in the r OTC, and his older brother

412
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: was serving in the military, and his father was a veteran,

413
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: so for all I can tell, and I've read interviews

414
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: with his sister, his only living relative. Her name is Marcia,

415
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 1: and she because his brother died about five years after

416
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: his disappearance, right, and his parents died. His parents died,

417
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: his older brother died, his younger brother died. He was

418
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: one of four. His younger brother died tragically, which we'll

419
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 1: talk about in a little bit. Yeah, so she's the

420
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: only one who's still living. And she was much younger

421
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: than him. She was seven or eight at the time

422
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: of his disappearance, I believe, No, No, she was ten

423
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: at the time of uns Right, So she she just

424
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: seemed to feel that he was excited to surface country.

425
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 1: That was the sense the entire family had, was that

426
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: he was really a patriotic yeah, and that you know,

427
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,479
Speaker 1: he had been preparing for that. I mean again, you

428
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: know r OTC like really trying to get in there,

429
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: and that it would be unlikely that he would run

430
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: away to this extent, especially considering to dodge the draft.

431
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 1: Considering this is like on the heels of World War

432
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: two and everything like that, and draft dodging was like,

433
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: look upon, is far more dishonorable than that when it

434
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: first started. Yeah. Well, and and the other thing is

435
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: that the Korean War officially is listed as having ended

436
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: on the seven July three, so he would have been

437
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: gone for April to May to like three months. He

438
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: could have dodged to the draft for three months and

439
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: came back and said, I made a big mistake, and

440
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: it probably wouldn't have been that bad. I don't know

441
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: what the repercussions were if you were a draft dodger

442
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: and you after the fact came, but I don't think

443
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: they shot you in the head for it seems like

444
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: it's a pretty low slap on the risk kind of thing,

445
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: but that's true necessarily. Yeah, it would have been a

446
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: big market your record, it would have. It would have

447
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: definitely blackened your employment prospects. You know, it wouldn't have

448
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: been the end of the world, but yeah, if it

449
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,719
Speaker 1: would have been not optimal. Yeah, So mostly I just

450
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: don't think this is a good theory. No, I don't

451
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: think general, especially because they were a close family, and

452
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: you know, if if you are going to do something

453
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: like this, you're not gonna live the rest of your

454
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: life without ever getting in touch with your family and

455
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 1: saying hey, by the way I'm safe. No, I mean

456
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: you could actually, you know, if you did do it

457
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: to draft, to dodge the draft, say in a couple

458
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: of years, you show back up and you're tell them

459
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: all these three guys in Horsepack abducted me and took

460
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: me to the coast and sold me into slavery, and

461
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: uh yeah, then I one of my master died, I

462
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: escaped and the Portugal Yeah, it wasn't a lot of

463
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 1: story that we heard. It was one. Okay, So the

464
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: next one also has to do with being drafted, but

465
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: this is something slightly different. It's actually the direct opposite

466
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: of being a draft dodger, and that is there's some

467
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: theories that the CIA may have recruited him into their

468
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: ranks as an operative. Apparently in nine the CIA was

469
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: actively recruiting for the Korean War and other things. I

470
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: was going, things were pretty hot in Europe, yeah, and

471
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: the Cold War and all of that stuff. And there's

472
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: a theory out there that Ron was actually recruited to be,

473
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: like I said, an operative for the CIA, So he

474
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: would have been, you know, doing clean DestinE operations and

475
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: things like that. He was unassumingly attractive American man. I

476
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: mean you know he wasn't he. There was something that

477
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: I read, uh in in that article that you were

478
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: talking about, actually, the one about the prom date, where

479
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: they said, hey, everyone knew of him, admired him, but

480
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: nobody really knew him or had any stories about him.

481
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: And that's kind of exactly. Yeah, that's exactly what you

482
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: want from a spot. You want somebody who looks, you know,

483
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: attractive enough that you're not going to be like whoa,

484
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: oh God, but also not so attractive that you're also

485
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: going to be like WHOA right attractive, No, neither. You

486
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: want somebody who's kind the middle of the road, which

487
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: he was not. Not Quasimodo and not Marilyn Manson. These

488
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 1: are also all on the same end of the spectrum

489
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: currently the other one there's side right and stunning as

490
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: the man sitting next to us every week. Exactly, you

491
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: want somebody to kind of average, right, it's more like, well, no,

492
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: I'm on the low in inspectrum. So so yeah, I

493
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: mean he also he had he apparently had really good grades.

494
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: He was smart. He again he was interested in me

495
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: his country with the r OTC and the family reports.

496
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: He had a wrestling career and he was well liked

497
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: by everyone. But I guess my big problem with this

498
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: is that I don't it seems like at one point,

499
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: sometime in the last however many years he was or

500
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: even somebody would have just said like, hey, he's okay.

501
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily have to have been him. But maybe

502
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: what they did is they brought him into a super

503
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: secret program that's kind of like Matt Damon in the

504
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: Born movies, where they totally brain watched him turn to

505
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: turn him into a super assassin kind of guy, and

506
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: he doesn't even know what his previous identity. But that

507
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: also presumes that he survived his very first training session

508
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: or mission, and that he didn't just failed badly by

509
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: just dying all over the place on the first round.

510
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: And they're like, well, this is a secret program, so

511
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: I'm afraid buddy, you're going in with the dogs and

512
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: the kiddies in the Creamtory. Yes, but sixty odd years on,

513
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: it seems like the almost any mission. And this is

514
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: maybe this is optimistic thing, but it seems like most

515
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: missions would have been declassified to a point where you

516
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: could have said, at the very least, hey, one single

517
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: living relative of Ron who is still heartbroken to this

518
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: day of his disappearance. He we recruited him. It didn't go. Well.

519
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: You don't even have to say what mission. You could

520
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: just say he did died serving his country. He loved

521
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: you very much. Okay, But again, that's presuming that it's

522
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: something that was on the books. If it's off the books,

523
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: not always recorded, and too, it doesn't mean that it

524
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: wasn't that somebody was recording it under presumed identity, assumed identities.

525
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: It could have been Oh well, um major major lamp

526
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: died in a horrible electric fire, his bull burned out. Yeah,

527
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: they did a sign of a new identity and everything. Well,

528
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: you know that identity is in the files having died

529
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: trying to assassinate Kim Il sung in Korea or something

530
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: like that. And uh, but it's it's the original one.

531
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not cross referenced, and so yeah, I don't know. Yeah,

532
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: I think. I listen, I'm throwing things in there because

533
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: I think this theory is I actually I also see

534
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: we've seen things where I actually think this theory is

535
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: not the worst. I think I would say it's like

536
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: middle of the pack for you, and I really hate

537
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: your theory. Next up on the tail end of the

538
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: pack is that the fish head dead fish was actually

539
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: a threat from the mob. You know, I don't know,

540
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: I think, I think, yeah, I guess that's threat. I

541
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: mean usually a threat to use a horsehead and then

542
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: and then the fish means that we're going to feed you.

543
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: So it's more than the threat. It's like a promise,

544
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: right yeah. Yeah, Well, either way that it was something

545
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: to do with the mob. There's some speculation that he

546
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: could have gotten into drugs or gambling because he played

547
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: in a jazz band, so then he was out with

548
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: ne'er do Wells and the speaks. I think, you know,

549
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: the big threat in those days was reefer madness. Madness

550
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: thing was a big deal. So and and definitely those

551
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: jazz musician types. You know, we're into the reefer kind

552
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: of jas grass. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think they took

553
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: him out for killing that innocent trout. Yeah, the trout

554
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: writes people. Yeah, but you will you'll see this, actually

555
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: you will see the theory kind of on the forums.

556
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: I think it's not a very good theory, but I

557
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: wanted to put it in here anyway. I kind of

558
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: fun to talk about the bunkt with the story that

559
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: we've talked about before, which is when I was a kid,

560
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: I went fishing and I threw a fish in somebody's bed.

561
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: That things are not unheard of, because I thought hilarious. Okay,

562
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: you weren't planning on murdering him. No, no, And believe me,

563
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: it was. It was somebody who was renting from or

564
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: staying with us, and person didn't find it all that funny.

565
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: And my mom at the time yelled at me under

566
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: the guise of not thinking it was that funny, but

567
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: years later would admit to me she thought it was

568
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: hilarious too. So now you know where I get it. Well,

569
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: here's what I will say is we can bring this

570
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: up a little bit later in terms of the prank,

571
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: because I have a theory that kind of explains that

572
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: at how better. But I just all I want to

573
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: say is that I don't think that it was a

574
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: mop threat. No, no, no, I think might be totally unrelated.

575
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: Let's face it, it totally could be. Ye. Next theory

576
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: that he ran away from a girl were with the girl.

577
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: There were some rumors that Ron had a girlfriend that

578
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: went to a different school in Canada. I'm kidding, I'm sorry.

579
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: He did have a girlfriend apparently that he was seeing

580
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: that did go to a different school, went to school

581
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: in Indiana and actually Indiana University, and there was some

582
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: speculation that he had maybe gotten her pregnant, and that

583
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: would have been one of the reasons for the blood

584
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: test and for him to pay for the blood test

585
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: versus getting it for free, because one of the reasons

586
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: that men got blood tests at that time was for

587
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: paternity tests of course. Uh. And so that I guess

588
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: the theory goes that he could have gotten his girlfriend

589
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: pregnant and not wanted to do this blood test on

590
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: campus because he was worried it would sully his reputation

591
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: on campus because apparently you couldn't just say I was

592
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: going to do it for the Red Cross or whatever.

593
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: So he went and paid a bunch of money to

594
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: have it done. But when you say a bunch of money,

595
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you have no idea. No, it was twenty dollars,

596
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: like a hundred bucks, Okay, a lot of money. Yeah,

597
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: that's a big that's a big lot of bills for

598
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: the fore for a college. So that that kind of

599
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: follows that either he could have run away with this girl,

600
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: but no girls were reported missing from Indiana University at

601
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: that time. I mean, it seems like you would have

602
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: just that would have been easy to connect the dots.

603
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: And also the thing about it is is is if

604
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: you've gotten a girl pregnant, the reason to get a

605
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: blood test is because you doubt your own paternity, right

606
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: the child. Yeah? Um, so I mean, why would you

607
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: run away with somebody who do you suspect is screwing

608
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: around on you anyway? I mean I don't quite get that.

609
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: I don't either, unless unless she was sleeping with multiple

610
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: people and you were trying to prove to her that

611
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: you were the father, which you don't, because he seems

612
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: like he was kind of like the wholesome, all American guy,

613
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: and that he would have felt like he wanted to

614
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,479
Speaker 1: take responsibility for something like that with the stand up

615
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: guy who says, I'm not sure it's my kid, but

616
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: does it? Yeah, here's my blood, let's prove it to

617
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: you and we'll run away. I don't think he ran

618
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: away with somebody though, like I said, because there was

619
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: there was no correlating woman who but he could have

620
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: been running away from something. But again, that seems count

621
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: or to what I think I seem to know about him. Okay,

622
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: so what's what's the the opposite theory because we had

623
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: to we ran away from a ran to ran away from. Yeah. Well,

624
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: and then there's the opposite theory, which is that he

625
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: was trying to help out a friend who might have

626
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: gotten a girl pregnant. Explain to folks, because I know

627
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: not everybody gets what you mean, but I so I

628
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: found this online on a really lovely web sluic forum,

629
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: and this this poster said that when they read about

630
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: the blood test, they thought about the fact that apparently

631
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: one of the tactics that guys would use if they

632
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: had gotten a girl pregnant is apparently the only way

633
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: that they could do the paternity was, you know, through

634
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: blood typing. So they would get a bunch of friends

635
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: together who had the same blood type. Wait, so by

636
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: blood typing, you mean I have a positive and the

637
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: baby has a positive, So it's kind of positive that

638
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: it's my baby, not positive. But really, but if I

639
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: have be negative and the bite baby is a positive,

640
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: then it's likely that you're not. Just just to clarify that, Yeah,

641
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: so they would blood type the baby and blood type

642
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: the mom, and blood type the potential father, and then

643
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: you know, if that all came out, yes, that probably

644
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: is the accurate thing. But the thing apparently, and I

645
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: don't have any real evidence to back this up, but apparently,

646
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: oftentimes fraternity brothers or just friends, you know, a guy

647
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: would say, hey, listen, I think I got my girl pregnant.

648
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: What blood type are you? And if they were the

649
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,439
Speaker 1: same blood type, they'd say, hey, will you just say

650
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: you were sleeping with her? Two? And then it would

651
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: call in questions for morals and that's what matters, but

652
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: also the paternity, and then they would have no way

653
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: to know which one. And then you know, obviously at

654
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: that time, if a girl said no, I was only

655
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: sleeping with the one guy, the doctors would be like, oh, well,

656
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: you're just trying to protect your I mean, you're lying obviously, um,

657
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: and so that would just be this whole big question

658
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: and then usually they would just drop it. And well,

659
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: there was a that was a case. I remember this

660
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: is like you knows a while back. Let's in the

661
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: eighties where that I heard about where there were like

662
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: three or four guys who were you know, we're doing

663
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: the same thing, and the judge basically said, okay, well

664
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: you're all you're all gonna paytriot support then, yeah, you

665
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: know that's how that will worked out in the eighties,

666
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: I think that worked much better than the fifties. Yeah, right,

667
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: for women usually. Yeah, it could have been back in

668
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: the fifties and the sixties or whatever. It might have

669
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: been just the threat of going public with having three

670
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: or four guys saying yeah, we were all I thinking

671
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: sex with you, and so they would just a woman

672
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: would just drop it rather than go through that. My

673
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: biggest concern about this theory is the wanton blood letting

674
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: from the baby, from the mom, from the boy, and

675
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: that boy and maybe the other boys, a whole lot

676
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: of did you just look that word up, Steve, No, Yeah, sorry. Anyway,

677
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: that theory I guess is out there as well that

678
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: maybe he got but I don't Again, I don't know

679
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: why he especially if it worth for that, why he

680
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't have just gotten it for free? Who was just

681
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: like to help a buddy out? And it doesn't really doesn't.

682
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: It kind of doubt it. You probably want to do

683
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: it covertly to not be accused of collusion. Yeah, probably, buddy, Um,

684
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: And it might it might be too that if that

685
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: was the case, he found his blood type out and

686
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: found out he was not the same type as his

687
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: role was anyway, so he couldn't be any help to him.

688
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: So that's the end of that, Yeah, I guess. Or

689
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: there's another possibility to which is this. You know, he

690
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: met a mysterious of threatening kind of stranger who says,

691
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: you know, like basically roll and then and so and

692
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: so he goes to check it out, you know, so

693
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: he gets his blood typed and finds out that, yeah,

694
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: it's actually his dad that he not was his dad

695
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: actually couldn't really be his father. It's a giant tall

696
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: man in a black mask. But it still doesn't understand it.

697
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: He was abducted by Darth Vader somebody like that, you know,

698
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: the fifties equivalent or maybe and then and then so,

699
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, he decides and it turns out his his

700
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 1: real dad is bio biological dad just says, hey, dude,

701
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: you know number one, your dad is not really your dad.

702
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: Number two, I'm a billionaire. She just come and live

703
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: with me in the Mediterraneans hell with these people. And

704
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: he decided to do that. I doubt it, Okay, deep doubt,

705
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: because even if it was his father, I mean like

706
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: the other guy raised him. Yeah, there is there is

707
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: still a relationship, but that is another possibility to those it.

708
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: Maybe he did doubt, you know, his own father's paternity

709
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: for some reason, and he wanted to clear up those deaths.

710
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: But he heard a rumor or something happening, and so

711
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: he wanted to clear that up, you know. Maybe, and

712
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: that's another reason for doing it on the slide. But

713
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily but it's not connected necessarily to our story.

714
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: Um okay, So next three is that he could have

715
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: run away just for the hell of it, for the

716
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: heck of it, but it seems like you'd want some

717
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: of your up. It would take your stuff, you know,

718
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: like especially an ID card you're probably gonna need at

719
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: some point. This pre internet. Yeah, so this is what

720
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: we're talking really again, is like pre internet, pre connected

721
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: everything really all you gotta do. It's not as though

722
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: this was this like huge national sensation story, like yeah,

723
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: I got a couple articles, especially later, like recently it's

724
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: gotten a couple of national articles, but most of the

725
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: articles were kind of like, you know, it was a

726
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: footnote and whatever. If you like to come out to

727
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: Oregon with your I D and you still have a

728
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: valid I d. Nobody's going to make a call on you.

729
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 1: Nobody's going to say, oh, you're that missing guy. Why

730
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: did he leave his money in the bank though, That's

731
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: but that's what I'm saying all of that. It's there's

732
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: just a lot of he left so much stuff behind.

733
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: He didn't take anything with him. So if you were

734
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: to leave on your own, you would take something with you,

735
00:39:54,160 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: at least one thing shoes. Yeah, okay. Next theory is

736
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: that he could have been kidnapped and that disturbing noise

737
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: could have been allure for him. I don't necessarily know

738
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: why he would have been kidnapped at all. Ransom ransom demand,

739
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: I would think that. I mean, he wasn't from a

740
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: particularly well I mean he was from a middle class family,

741
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: but not one that could pay, you know, some sort

742
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: of amazing that the Iranians had desperate need of an

743
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: upright bass player. I guess it's possible. Yeah, they would

744
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: have grabbed the base and brought it. With that theory

745
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: out the window. However, the kidnapping theory may make sense

746
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: when we examine the theory that it could have been

747
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: a fraternity prank gone wrong and this is how this

748
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: would go, and I think this is probably the most

749
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: plausible theory out there. Basically, the fish would have been

750
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,439
Speaker 1: the first part, like Steve was saying, you know, fat joke,

751
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: right then Captain Bass, here you go. And then there's

752
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: this noise and it was his Frapp brothers and they

753
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: fake kidnap him, maybe because of the he was a

754
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: he was a sophomore, and he pledged in his freshman

755
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: year Chad, Yeah, and then there was a class pledging

756
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: behind him. This is when pledge was happening. Again, do

757
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: you have it? I had it in my notes and

758
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: I've lost it. Delta something, Delta deltair Okay, I had

759
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: it written down and then I can't find it any more.

760
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 1: It was like on Kappa Stubby or so they were

761
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: they were pledging. I guess they were in the second

762
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: part of their pledging case or something. There was some

763
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: sort of pledge going on at that time, and so

764
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 1: there's some speculation that this could have been in conjunction

765
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: with the lower class pledge. Maybe maybe some of the

766
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 1: freshmen that he had taken part in hazing, maybe one

767
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: of them was actually kind of angry about what Ron

768
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: had put him through. Okay, that's not the theory. Okay,

769
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 1: maybe um, but this theory is Baslee that they fake

770
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: kidnapped him and took him out, you know, a mile

771
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: or two away from campus and dropped him off, and

772
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: they just thought, you know, he he'll walk back, no problem.

773
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: And one thing I will say is, having lived in

774
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: the Midwest, sometimes a thing can happen when it's that

775
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,240
Speaker 1: cold out, or it doesn't actually seem like it's that cold.

776
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 1: It is cold. You think, well, you know, I could

777
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: definitely use a jacket, but you don't really realize how

778
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: cold it is until you look at the temperature. And

779
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 1: so it is certainly possible that they could have thought

780
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: that it was not you know, nineteen degrees, because it's

781
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: if they're in a car hauling him somewhere, it's the

782
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: heat or crank, it's it was snowing. But you know,

783
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: they were like, okay, well it's chilly out, but whatever,

784
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: he'll walk back and he'll be fine. He'll be annoyed,

785
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: but he'll be fine. Right and then you know, for

786
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: whatever reason, either he succumbs to the elements or he thinks, oh,

787
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: I'll do shelter and then walk in the morning, or

788
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 1: whatever happens, for some reason, he succumbs to the elements

789
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: and maybe he gets lost and dies out there. And

790
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 1: this is something I never really heard in detail about

791
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: the investigation, but you would have to assume the police

792
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: would have interrogated as frat bros. Right, Well, so apparently

793
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 1: they didn't really apparently, Yeah, I was reading I think

794
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: it was in that same medium article that we skimmed

795
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: where they were talking about they were talking the woman

796
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: was talking to uh, some of the people who lived

797
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: in the dorm with Ron, and they said they never

798
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: were even asked questions. They lived on the same floor,

799
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: they live like two doors down, and nobody ever came

800
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: to ask them questions about him. The apparently the fraternity

801
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: was never really asked questions. That's Detective Smith feels like

802
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: they probably know something that pledge class and that he

803
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: hopes that he can find a way to track all

804
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: them down and interview them, but which is hard. Yeah,

805
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: it's not ideal. Many of them have passed away at

806
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: this point. But my biggest problem with this theory is

807
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: that no one from the fat ever really came out.

808
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: You know, it seems like to me, your first thought

809
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: isn't oh, crap, we kill him. Your first your first

810
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: thought is, oh, crap, he got lost. We gotta go

811
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: find him. Unless they were, like Joe said, you know,

812
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: mad about something they wanted to maybe they wanted at

813
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: least hurt him, right, But I just I and maybe

814
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: this is just overly optimistic of me. He could have

815
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: been a tadbit sadistic, and we don't know that he

816
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: really went off the rails on somebody with the you know,

817
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: the equalizer, the paddle of the holes drill. Didn't. They're

818
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 1: like he could have. But I just, you know, I

819
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: maybe I just again like maybe I just believe in

820
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 1: the good in people. But I don't think the first thought,

821
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, when you wake up the next morning, is

822
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: a crap, we killed him. I think it's a crap

823
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: he's lost. We got to go find him and save him.

824
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,919
Speaker 1: In my mind, at least, you know, especially if it's

825
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: just a couple a mile or two out. But maybe

826
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: not the more hopeless side of me, I would like

827
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: to think that people are not so moronicous to least

828
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: somebody out in nineteen degree weather with no coat to

829
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 1: begin with too. But listen, if it's a if it's

830
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: a couple of college guys though, and they've had a

831
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: couple of drinks and they think they're being funny, and

832
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: then oops, we let him turn into a human popsicle.

833
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: They get two, three, four of them may using the

834
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: phrase or term used early. They may collude and go, oh, hell,

835
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: we need to get rid of the wrong sickle. And

836
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: so what we're gonna do is whatever the hell they did,

837
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: and we will never tell anybody of this again. Yeah. See,

838
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say something depressing about this.

839
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: Something depressing is what I say every That is my depression. Shick.

840
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: I just I just generally, I guess believe in the

841
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: good in people, and I would hope that it would

842
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: have been we can help him and find him. Not

843
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: and when we killed him, we got to cover up

844
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: our tracks. But maybe it was. And so that's how

845
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: I can kind of make the kidnapping thing work. And

846
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: that's kind of my best theory on this whole thing.

847
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: You know, it's also another possibility. It's just this is

848
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: really random. As they leave him out in the middle

849
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: of nowhere, and then he and then they'd go down

850
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: the road a little ways and they're waiting for him.

851
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: He never shows I've been asked to them, he's been

852
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: picked up by like a serial killer, like Ed you know,

853
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: Ed Gain has come along and given him a ride

854
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: or something like that. That would be really awful. But

855
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: that would be I guess possible. It would be the

856
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: mother of all coincidence. That would be just like what's

857
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 1: his name? The kid who broke down and you said,

858
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: got picked up by somebody randomly, when before the greater

859
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: came by, um Brandon Brandon Swanson. Yeah, yeah, that's that's

860
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: on par with the completely random stuff to make that happen. Yeah,

861
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: it does. But I mean, when you think about it,

862
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: a lot of serial killing kind of stuff, a lot

863
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: of it is kind of random. People just happened to

864
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and

865
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: they crossed paths with the serial killer and then maam,

866
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: that's the end, you know, that's out. Yeah. Um. My

867
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 1: last theory is, well, I guess I have two theories.

868
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 1: My my second to last theory is that it could

869
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 1: have been a revenge gone wrong. You know, maybe ron

870
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: knew who put the fish in his bed, and he

871
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: maybe you know, of the handle, and went down to

872
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: confront them and it went poorly and then they felt

873
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: like they had to dispose of a body. They had

874
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: already killed the fish, so obviously they were not above killing.

875
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: That's good. But did somebody find a human body in

876
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: between their sheets? No? I don't think so it wasn't reported. Yeah,

877
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: my sheets are trying to stank you, and somebody stuffed

878
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: the body and yeah, not the case. Uh. And then

879
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: my last theory is that it could have been a ghost. What. Okay,

880
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: So I love that you put this in here as

881
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: just the theory name and you're not explaining this to us,

882
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: so please tell me what it's just haunting? Ye, to

883
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: be haunted? It was? Yeah, it was once in a

884
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,240
Speaker 1: sane asylum, and so it was rumored to be haunted.

885
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,280
Speaker 1: Oh so what you're telling me is that the text

886
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 1: was there, but a ghost took it away, so I

887
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: can't see it on my script. Yeah, I guess it

888
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: is actually said that the space is still haunted by Ron,

889
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: even though even though the dorm was torn down and

890
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: it's a conference center now. But some people think that

891
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: Ron haunts the conference center now, which okay, whatever, But

892
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: so maybe a ghost took him and that yeah, so

893
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: so yeah, there were ghosts before. Wrong, So just This

894
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: is a play on the Devil went down to Georgia,

895
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: but instead of a fiddle, he was after a base. Yeah. Yeah,

896
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: espectually that's for the hot fiddle Pars. It's like it's

897
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: like like, yeah, you suck. Yeah, But you know, actually

898
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: and also I I I totally like the Poulter guist

899
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: kind of idea. You know, I could have like enticed

900
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: him with that noise down into the basement where he

901
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: had opened and had it opened like a portal to hell.

902
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: It sucked him in, you know, And so you know,

903
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 1: that's actually weird. That actually takes me in a direction

904
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: that might help some of this, which is maybe the

905
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: noise that Ron heard was something similar to the instrument

906
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: that he had left out in his car, and he thinks,

907
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: oh hell, somebody opened my car because people didn't tend

908
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: to lock their stuff up. Oh hell, somebody's got my

909
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: car and they're screwing around with my base, and that's

910
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: the noise. And so that would could be something that

911
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: lured him out. That could have been the noise that

912
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: he went to investigate and he thought, I got to

913
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: protect my base or my instrument. It doesn't then feed

914
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: into any of these but that could have been what

915
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: that lure was, except he would have taken his dorm

916
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: keys to get back in, like into his car and

917
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: into the dorm. Well, if the door, if the car

918
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: wasn't locked, then that wouldn't be a reason to take

919
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: the keys. And I don't know that the door of

920
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: the dorm would be an auto lock situation in that

921
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: if it was, I don't know. I've never seen anything

922
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: said the auto locks in those days, but I know that, Um,

923
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: well I was in the dorms. If you if you

924
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: had to nip outside for just a moment to your car,

925
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: you might just like toss a brick in between the door.

926
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 1: And I guess the reason that I think that is

927
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: because if he thought somebody was messing with something in

928
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: his car, he probably want to lock it after Yeah,

929
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: unless he just intended to drag it in the dorm

930
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: room like he should have done in the first place. Yeah,

931
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: but I don't know. It could be that. Actually he

932
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: didn't go to investigate any noise at all. He just

933
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 1: went outside. He just he remembered his base and he

934
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: decided to go out and get it, and that's when

935
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: he ran into Mr. Serial killer or whoever it was.

936
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: So that's the end of my theories. Of course, you

937
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: do st got one. My theory is probably the most

938
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: repugnant of theories because it is very appropriate for the

939
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: day and age. But it could have been it could

940
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: have been a sexual encounter gone wrong. And by that,

941
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: I mean it may have been that Ron was gay.

942
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: And just so everybody knows, I'm going to talk about

943
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: this in the frame of the nineteen fifties. It's not

944
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: like I have any negative views on this, but at

945
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: that time it was a huge bad thing to like

946
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: someone of the same gender. And so it could have

947
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: been that he went to a room expecting to have

948
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,720
Speaker 1: a hook up and the person that was there wasn't

949
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: down with it, or they got caught, or he went

950
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: somewhere else even or maybe he busted somebody because he

951
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: was the r A. It's true he may have busted

952
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: somebody actually, you know, murdering somebody to protect that particular

953
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: dark secret that was a serious thing to protect. I mean,

954
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: he could have been in the closet and it was

955
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: him going out to to get an encounter and it

956
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 1: went bad. Or it could be that he was actually

957
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 1: straight although el and he busted somebody else, and those

958
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: two guys said, we cannot let this out because we

959
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:00,959
Speaker 1: are the I don't know, star football players. I would

960
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: make something else. I actually saw a theory out there

961
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 1: that I did not that I admitted from this because

962
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: I didn't. I liked it just as much as I

963
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: like this one um. And that was that, you know,

964
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 1: it's possible that he when he went to go get

965
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: clean sheets from the house mother, the dormmother, that he

966
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: caught her doing something she shouldn't have been doing, and

967
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 1: she might have either called her husband or her boyfriend,

968
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: or maybe she was with a guy, or maybe she

969
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: was with a guy who came or a girlfriend or whatever.

970
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: And that was, you know, what needs to be done,

971
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: because we just have her take on what happened, and

972
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: it's obviously scant investigations, so I don't listen. And the

973
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: only thing that I don't know, I have no tough

974
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just there's no good theories and there's

975
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: no good evidence for anything. He just disappeared. And the

976
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: original investigation, frankly, wasn't they just assumed, you know, like

977
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: I said, they said, he's rugged, so we assumed he

978
00:52:55,800 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: just left on his own. Yeah, as ault. That's the problem.

979
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: One note. There's I have one final hopeful note and

980
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: one final sad note. The sad note is we kind

981
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: of talked about this before um. Ron's younger brother, Richard,

982
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: was actually first year. He was just a year younger

983
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: than Ron at the time he went. He was also

984
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: a student at Miami University. He was the first year,

985
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 1: you know, he's a freshman while on a sophomore. He

986
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 1: finished school and then he was killed in an apartment

987
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: fire a couple of years later. That's yeah. Fire. Ron's

988
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,439
Speaker 1: mom died essentially of what's described as a broken heart

989
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 1: after Ron disappeared. I don't remember when his dad died,

990
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: but it was earlier, and his his older brother died

991
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: kind of early on as well. So, like we said, Marcia,

992
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: his sister who was who was ten years younger than him,

993
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: or much younger than him. She was ten when he disappeared,

994
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 1: the only living realm that would make her eight or

995
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: nine years younger than him. So damn your tenure. So

996
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: I'll publish you found herself a new family. Yeah, it

997
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: sounds like maybe not. It sounds like she's just kind

998
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: of still searching for him, which is really sad. But

999
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 1: I have this faint hope you know that he actually

1000
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 1: did run away and started a family of his own,

1001
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: and maybe this whole DNA testing train. I mean, you know,

1002
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: as of today, actually as of the recording of this episode,

1003
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: they have identified Lyle Stevicks family. This is what I heard.

1004
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 1: Apparently the family is not talking there. They've just declined

1005
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: to be identified, which I think is totally fair. But they,

1006
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully they have closure for themselves. Now. You know,

1007
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: the Golden State killer was just identified via DNA, So

1008
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: it's kind of my hope that he did run away

1009
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: and that somebody in his family because Marcia has sequenced

1010
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: her DNA because they found a number of bodies that

1011
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: they thought might have been Ron's and so they have

1012
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 1: her DNA on file and it's it's spread out in

1013
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: the DNA sphere. I think Joe's right. I think this

1014
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: DNA thing is going to really screw up our gig here.

1015
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: I think it is too, which you know what, kid,

1016
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: I'm totally okay with that. I'm totally okay with everybody

1017
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: getting closure for everything. Want any answers ever, might actually

1018
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: have to shift to a more historical format when we're

1019
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: talking about how did year old mysteries and older because

1020
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 1: there's no Yeah, I think we're going to have to

1021
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, but um yeah, that's I guess that's

1022
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,720
Speaker 1: kind of my hope, although I do think it's probably

1023
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: more likely that a frat prank went wrong, or you know,

1024
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: he was recruited into the CIA. But yeah, I don't

1025
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: think that, I personally do not. I don't think the

1026
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 1: CIA one works. There's God, what was that crappy Pacino

1027
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: movie about a decade ago? It was that That was

1028
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: kind of the vein of what you're talking about. That's

1029
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: the one where he was the trainer, the you know,

1030
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: the old wise man. Yeah, that was that was that

1031
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,720
Speaker 1: was That was that movie. It was a horrible movie.

1032
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: But the point is this theory is along the same

1033
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: lines of that, and I just can't get behind it.

1034
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: I I really I think that either he had an

1035
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: account or lost in counter, or maybe the frat thing,

1036
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: but those are the only ones that seemed to have

1037
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: enough history or repeated instances of by other people to

1038
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,879
Speaker 1: have explained how it could have happened, and then why

1039
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: the body would never have showed up. Just ye, I

1040
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 1: just hope that if it was a frat thing, that

1041
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 1: somebody will come forward at some point. I'm kind of

1042
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: doubting it was, because I think it's more likely he

1043
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: just went out to get his face and just ran

1044
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: into Mr. Serial killer or that's your favorite theory. And also,

1045
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: well there's that one of those at the Steve's gay

1046
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 1: theory is also plausible because the frat boys, you know,

1047
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 1: I mean frats, you know, generally speaking of their stunts,

1048
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: don't kill people. While they do sometimes they do, they

1049
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: have usually that usually they don't. And so I'm finding, like,

1050
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: like to say, the whole gay thing is actually kind

1051
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: of more plausible in its own way, just because of

1052
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: again the sentiment of the time and the reaction that

1053
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:03,479
Speaker 1: it got from people. Yeah. Well, yeah, I guess I don't.

1054
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,760
Speaker 1: I don't think any of these theories are good. Maybe

1055
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 1: someday we'll find out remarkably better. Yeah, alright, So what

1056
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 1: else have you got for um? Yeah, here's what I

1057
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: have for you. Um. If you were a part of

1058
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: this frat prank, you can spend up in an email.

1059
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: That email address is Thinking Side Was podcast at gmail

1060
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find this episode, along with all

1061
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: our other more than two hundred and fifty episode back

1062
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 1: catalog as well as an episode list, links to March

1063
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah, oh yeah, links to our research.

1064
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: You can find all of that on our website, which

1065
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. If you want to

1066
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: connect with us on social media, you can do that

1067
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: in a number of different ways. We have the Facebook

1068
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: page and the group. Like the page, joined the group.

1069
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: If you want to have discussions, you should join the group.

1070
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: And if you join the group, you should answer the questions.

1071
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: The answers are yes and thursdays or weekly, I don't

1072
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: really care, just answer the questions. You can find us

1073
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: on Twitter where we are Thinking Sideways. You can find

1074
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: us on Reddit where we have a subreddit that's called

1075
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: thinking Sideways, and you can find us on Instagram where

1076
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: we are Thinking Sideways Podcast. Lots of stuff from the

1077
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: weekend from so by the way, just some people know

1078
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: you're a little slow today because we just got off

1079
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: an airplane a day and a half ago from Crime Con,

1080
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 1: which for us was a day and a half ago

1081
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: and for you was weeks ago. But you've also heard

1082
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: our live episode, so you know how much fun we

1083
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: had and how excited we are. So yeah, well most

1084
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 1: of us are, and I've had a lot of caffeine.

1085
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: That's the only reason I sound excited. I'm just doing

1086
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: a lot of other really big planning things right now. Yeah,

1087
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: you're your priorities are all I know, and you probably

1088
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 1: know how you're finding us. Um, how you're listening to

1089
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: us right now? Hopefully that's on you know, like a

1090
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 1: Stitcher premium type thing where you are not listening to ads,

1091
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 1: you're hearing us four days early, and you're hearing our

1092
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 1: bonus content that we're calling down the rabbit hole once

1093
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: a month. If you are not doing that but you're interested,

1094
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: you can go to stitcher dot com slash thinking sideways

1095
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: and use the promo code sideways for a month off.

1096
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: You might be listening to us on iTunes or streaming

1097
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: us pretty much almost anywhere. Yeah, who knows where you're

1098
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: finding us, but you know how you're finding us, And

1099
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: if you haven't already, please do take the time to

1100
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: subscribe and leave us comment and reading that helps other

1101
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: listeners find us and tune in. I forgot we're on

1102
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: tune in and Google. Okay, great, we're kind of place

1103
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: were everywhere. Hold crap, we actually sound better on Stitcher

1104
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: Premium that's probably true. Ye, Steve spends more time editing

1105
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: sabotaging our audio for everywhere else. Yeah, yeah, that's that's

1106
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: exactly what we do. It's a good long term plan. Yeah. Anyways,

1107
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: I think all of that having been said, we're going

1108
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: to go ahead and get on out of here. But

1109
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: we will be back next week, unlike Ron, with another

1110
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: hard hitting mystery. A matter of fact, he's right. Bye, guys, dudes. Later,