WEBVTT - Dear Diary...

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, everyone, Josh and Chuck here to remind you that

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<v Speaker 1>our last three shows of the year. Boy, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a good show this year are taking place very soon

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<v Speaker 1>and tickets are still available.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so get in the saddle and come out and

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<v Speaker 2>see us partners in Orlando, Atlanta, and Nashville.

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<v Speaker 1>Just go to stuff youshould know dot com and click

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<v Speaker 1>tickets right there. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a

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<v Speaker 1>production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and

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<v Speaker 2>Charles W. Chuck Bryan is here and this is Stuff

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<v Speaker 2>you Should Know. Dear Diary edition.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I guess I'll just ask the obvious question. Have

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<v Speaker 1>you ever kept a diary of any kind, any kind

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<v Speaker 1>of journal?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I think I did when I was younger, but

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't in a long long time. And it's one

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<v Speaker 2>of those things like I'm like, gosh, this is such

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<v Speaker 2>a great idea, do it a couple of times, and

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<v Speaker 2>then just fall off, Yeah, fall off the wagon.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's one of those things that you can

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<v Speaker 1>either be inclined to be one of those people that

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<v Speaker 1>does it and keeps up with it or not. But

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<v Speaker 1>you can also learn to do it, I think, with practice,

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<v Speaker 1>like anything else, by setting that habit. And the reason

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<v Speaker 1>I assigned this idea to Livia, who did a great job,

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<v Speaker 1>is because my good friend Mike Anderson has kept a

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<v Speaker 1>daily journal since nineteen ninety one. Dear Mike, it's pretty amazing. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>never read it, but it's just it comes up. It

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<v Speaker 1>comes up every now and then because it's it is

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<v Speaker 1>a journal of his life. But what it serves, as

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<v Speaker 1>far as the friend group goes, is a journal of

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<v Speaker 1>all of our lives to a certain degree. And sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be talking, we'll be camping or just hanging out

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<v Speaker 1>or something, and we'll be talking about something that happened

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<v Speaker 1>in the old days and we won't be clear on it,

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<v Speaker 1>and Michae will just be like, you know, I can

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<v Speaker 1>find that out for us, and it's just it's cool.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a it's a bit of a time capsule, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know it's a he's he's currently getting them, i think,

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<v Speaker 1>digitized from his old handwriting days, oh handwritten days, rather

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<v Speaker 1>and I was like, you know these are important, right

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<v Speaker 1>and you need to make sure you know, we're all

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<v Speaker 1>getting older, and like, what if a UFO picked you

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<v Speaker 1>up and took you away, and he's like, I got

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<v Speaker 1>that cover of my friend there going to his daughter

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<v Speaker 1>already there will be preserved by her. And I would.

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<v Speaker 1>Mike's a crazy, weird, creative genius, so I would. I'd

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<v Speaker 1>like to see these like published one day.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's who you want to keep a journal for

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<v Speaker 2>that long? For sure.

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<v Speaker 1>It could be one of those things that comes out,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, one hundred years from now, and that's when

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<v Speaker 1>he becomes famous.

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<v Speaker 2>What year did he start?

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<v Speaker 1>Nineteen ninety one, so it's twenty twenty three, So do

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<v Speaker 1>the math.

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<v Speaker 2>No, wait, thirty eight years?

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<v Speaker 1>Do the math?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you sweating my upper lip is?

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, So this is on diaries And this actually turned out,

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<v Speaker 1>at least in the history section, to be way more

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<v Speaker 1>woman centric than I imagined it would be. But it

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<v Speaker 1>makes a lot of sense now that I see the

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<v Speaker 1>history of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, and if you kind of dive into tenth

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<v Speaker 2>century Japan, which we'll talk about in a second, there

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<v Speaker 2>was a kind of a movement of journaling. What a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people point to is the first real historical

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<v Speaker 2>example of people using diaries. They're writing because they're not

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<v Speaker 2>allowed to be externally, So the only way to share

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<v Speaker 2>themselves is to write to themselves. And women have so

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<v Speaker 2>long been repressed by men that I could see journaling

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<v Speaker 2>being a largely woman affair for most of history.

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<v Speaker 1>I should say, yeah, I mean we can actually start

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<v Speaker 1>with that, because the earlier examples aren't really diaries. Like

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about a papyrus logbook by an Egyptian official

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<v Speaker 1>named Marror about limestone blocks being delivered for the pyramids

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<v Speaker 1>at Giza.

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<v Speaker 2>Not a diary.

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<v Speaker 1>Not a diary because there's nothing you know, A diary

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<v Speaker 1>is something personal about someone's experiences. So he wasn't like

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<v Speaker 1>ten blocks delivered today, also feeling a little depressed. If

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<v Speaker 1>anyone cares, it was just recording of things. Marcus Aurelius,

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<v Speaker 1>the Roman Emperor, got a little closer with his meditations

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<v Speaker 1>because he did talk about things like here's how i'd

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<v Speaker 1>like to I'd like to develop these character traits and

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<v Speaker 1>cultivate these things in my life. But it still was

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<v Speaker 1>sort of abstract. It wasn't like today, this happened and

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<v Speaker 1>I felt this way about it. So it's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>these pillow books that are kind of the first diaries.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, and again they came up among the ladies

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<v Speaker 2>of the court in Japan in the tenth century, and

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<v Speaker 2>again they were extraordinarily repressed, but they were able to

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<v Speaker 2>share themselves so eloquently that a lot of these these

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<v Speaker 2>what are called pillow books survived, and one of them

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<v Speaker 2>was essentially so they would kind of veer into fiction

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<v Speaker 2>and poetry and stuff in addition to recording, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>historical events at the court, both large and small. It

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<v Speaker 2>could be gossip, it could be the death of an emperor.

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<v Speaker 2>They're really good historical records, but they're also really good

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<v Speaker 2>inward records of historical figures who otherwise wouldn't have who

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<v Speaker 2>would have been lost to history, and that from that

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<v Speaker 2>tradition of kind of veering into fiction a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>was considered. The first novel, The Tale of the Genji,

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<v Speaker 2>came out in the eleventh century by Murasaki Shikibu. I

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<v Speaker 2>think I got that right, and that was basically the

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<v Speaker 2>first novel. It came out of the pillow books.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and there was there were the pillow books, which

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<v Speaker 1>were written by many women. They used a specific writing

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<v Speaker 1>system that was I think the first purely Japanese system

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<v Speaker 1>called hira guna. I'm probably going to get a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the stuff wrong. And that was compared to the

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<v Speaker 1>official writing system called kanji, which I think was derived

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<v Speaker 1>from Chinese and used exclusively by men, and this other

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<v Speaker 1>writing system was used only by women, at least at first.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure if that changed, and I think it

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<v Speaker 1>was a little simpler, but what it allowed for was

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<v Speaker 1>if you weren't like formally educated, you could learn this

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<v Speaker 1>writing system and it allowed for more expression of emotion

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<v Speaker 1>and like inner thoughts than it seems like Kanji was

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<v Speaker 1>a little more rigid and didn't have words and characters

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<v Speaker 1>for that stuff pretty neat. So they wrote these pillow books.

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<v Speaker 1>There's also one called the Pillow Book, and that was

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<v Speaker 1>a specific book written by how would you pronounce Sei

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<v Speaker 1>as a first name? Say saye, say say e? Shona

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<v Speaker 1>Gun And that was made into a movie in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>eighty six, Peter Greenaway the Pillow Book with what's his face?

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<v Speaker 1>Obh oh, what's the guy you? And McGregor was in that.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought he was talking about Sir Alec Guinness. No.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh, Europe. They started doing this in the Renaissance, right,

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<v Speaker 1>started journaling.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And what's interesting about that is this is when

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<v Speaker 2>journaling really kind of became more widespread because the idea

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<v Speaker 2>of individualism became more widespread around the Renaissance, so people

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<v Speaker 2>started reflecting on their own experiences rather than you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just counting themselves as part of the crowd. It became

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<v Speaker 2>it mattered how they felt about something that happened. Then

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<v Speaker 2>they started writing it down. So even though the pillow

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<v Speaker 2>books kind of really kicked it off, there were several

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<v Speaker 2>centuries where that just kind of fell away, and then

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<v Speaker 2>it was picked up again and really kind of took

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<v Speaker 2>off off, at least for those of us in the

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<v Speaker 2>the West, beginning in the Renaissance. Renaissance Europe.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, around the same time Puritans started doing the stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>Quakers started doing it, but these they were diaries, but

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<v Speaker 1>it was a little more of a you know, how

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<v Speaker 1>can I be a better Puritan or a better Quaker?

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, very sort of religious based rather than

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<v Speaker 1>just like hear my feelings about you know, Goodie Procter exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>They Oh my god, I can't imagine they would write

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<v Speaker 2>something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>The French got really into it too during the French Revolution.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, I don't know exactly what kicked that off,

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<v Speaker 2>but they came up with what's called the journal Intimate,

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<v Speaker 2>the intimate journal, and the British also said, hey, that's

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<v Speaker 2>a pretty good idea. So they're writing about their inner lives,

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<v Speaker 2>their inner feelings, thoughts, experiences. This is the I guess

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<v Speaker 2>the early nineteenth century and that same century, so this

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<v Speaker 2>is so now people are like everyday people are writing journals.

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<v Speaker 2>So there are suddenly self important. And one of the

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<v Speaker 2>other big things as far as diaries and journaling are concerned,

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<v Speaker 2>that came about in the nineteenth century was publishing old

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<v Speaker 2>journals in diaries. Yeah, as not just historical records, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's like kind of like for mass consumption as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is really interesting because I think it's super

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<v Speaker 1>cool that you can go back and read first hand

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<v Speaker 1>accounts of the westward expansion, and again a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>these were written by women and what they were going

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<v Speaker 1>through at the time. It's just a fascinating peak into

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<v Speaker 1>these times that you can't get any other way. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you can get artifacts, you can recreate scenes in a museum,

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<v Speaker 1>you can paint pictures of stuff that happen, but like,

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<v Speaker 1>there's nothing like being able and I know they say

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<v Speaker 1>pictures worth a thousand words. But I think it's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of reversed in this situation. I think it diary is

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<v Speaker 1>worth like a gazillion pictures.

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<v Speaker 2>Very nice. You know, I was going to say a

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<v Speaker 2>thousand words and a diary is worth.

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<v Speaker 1>A picture, right, you have worth one picture.

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<v Speaker 2>But the idea that people were now willing to publish

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<v Speaker 2>other people's journals and diaries that were not intended for publication,

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<v Speaker 2>it actually created a new form, a new literary form,

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<v Speaker 2>the journal, the diary, usually historical, and Olivia points out

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<v Speaker 2>that that kind of raised the question from that point on,

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<v Speaker 2>like are you really just writing for yourself?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Or can you ever overcome the idea that if you

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<v Speaker 2>don't destroy these before you die, that there's a chance

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<v Speaker 2>that somebody might discover them and find them worth publishing.

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<v Speaker 2>And so are you paying attention a little more to

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<v Speaker 2>sentence structure, to grammar, to the words you're using. You're

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<v Speaker 2>trying a little harder than you would and therefore is

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<v Speaker 2>it a little less of something than it was before

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<v Speaker 2>people started publishing these?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I get that question. There's one of our

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<v Speaker 1>old favorites, Oscar Wild. There's a very funny line and

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<v Speaker 1>the importance of being earnest when a character won't let

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<v Speaker 1>another read their diary and she says it is simply

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<v Speaker 1>a very young girl's record of her own thoughts and impressions,

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<v Speaker 1>and consequently meant for publication. When it appears in volume form,

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<v Speaker 1>I hope you will order a copy.

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty hilarious.

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<v Speaker 1>It's good stuff, very oscar wild.

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<v Speaker 2>So the importance of being earnest came out in eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety five, which means that that idea was established by then,

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<v Speaker 2>very well established, and not a lot happened for about

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<v Speaker 2>a century, and then blogging came along in the late nineties,

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<v Speaker 2>and all of a sudden, the whole point was to

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<v Speaker 2>share your diary, your journal, your innermost thoughts. The thing

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<v Speaker 2>about doing it online, though, is now you had an option.

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<v Speaker 2>You could share it with your intimates, your closest friends

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<v Speaker 2>and family, or and like keep everybody else out. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know through password protection, who knows. Or you could

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<v Speaker 2>go the other way around and blog anonymously and share

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<v Speaker 2>it with everybody, but your closest friends and family have

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<v Speaker 2>no idea to you. If you do it correctly. Either way,

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<v Speaker 2>you're sharing things in ways that that diarists never ever

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<v Speaker 2>did before.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, or blog non anonymously for just anyone to read anything.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's kind of what social media ended up being.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just like all hang out there.

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<v Speaker 1>And isn't it great? Yeah that happened.

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<v Speaker 2>If everybody's ruining their own life, then nobody's ruining their

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<v Speaker 2>own life.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh, all right, baby, let's take an early break. Yes, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna take an early break, and we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about some of the more famous historical diaries out there.

0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.160
<v Speaker 1>All right, we were talking before the break about historical

0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:15.240
<v Speaker 1>diaries and how I haven't ever really read one. I've

0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.600
<v Speaker 1>read memoirs and things, which is fine.

0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:18.400
<v Speaker 2>That's different.

0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a different deal. I'd love to read one

0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.320
<v Speaker 1>of these. It really like prime to my pump.

0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, did that happen while you were letting it

0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:28.760
<v Speaker 2>all hang out there.

0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.439
<v Speaker 1>There's a naval administrator, a very famous person named Samuel

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Peeps who wrote a journal for about nine years in

0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Shorthand even and this is sort of a classic example

0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.840
<v Speaker 1>of a historical diary because he wrote about you know,

0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.440
<v Speaker 1>restoration and the Great Plague of London and the Fire

0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.959
<v Speaker 1>of London, and so not only do you have that stuff,

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.880
<v Speaker 1>but you have this stuff from his perspective, and you

0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:02.480
<v Speaker 1>also have him getting annoy in his marriage and talking

0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.440
<v Speaker 1>about how excited he was about his new watch and

0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:06.600
<v Speaker 1>like kind of fun things like that.

0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's considered the greatest English diarist, and I'll own it.

0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Last time he came up, I called him pepees I

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.000
<v Speaker 2>think probably, but people wrote in and corrected us, so

0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:18.360
<v Speaker 2>we got it right this time.

0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this watch. Can you read that? That's a pretty

0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:24.520
<v Speaker 1>fun entry. I think about his new watch.

0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.520
<v Speaker 2>But lord to see how much of my old folly

0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.680
<v Speaker 2>and childishness hangs on me still that I cannot forbear

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 2>carrying my watch in my hand and the coach all

0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 2>the afternoon and seeing what o'clock it is. One hundred times.

0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.600
<v Speaker 2>That was my Samuel peeps.

0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.240
<v Speaker 1>I love it. That's fun. He's like, what that does

0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.000
<v Speaker 1>is that makes it relatable because everyone has gotten a

0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:50.040
<v Speaker 1>new watch or a new shirt that they're like, I

0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:51.360
<v Speaker 1>gotta look in the mirror again and see how this

0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.000
<v Speaker 1>thing looks like. People get excited about that stuff, and

0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.720
<v Speaker 1>it's fun to see someone write about, you know, the

0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.360
<v Speaker 1>fire of London in one hand and also talk about

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.040
<v Speaker 1>how excited it heard about their new watch.

0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.040
<v Speaker 2>He wrote more than a million words dude, which on

0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.680
<v Speaker 2>its face sounds like a lot. But get this, the

0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:11.480
<v Speaker 2>entire Harry Potter series is just over a million words.

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 2>So he wrote about the same amount of words as

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.360
<v Speaker 2>the entire all the books of Harry Potter by hand,

0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:23.400
<v Speaker 2>in less time than JK. Rowling wrote them.

0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh, all right, pretty nuts, little shade.

0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.359
<v Speaker 2>Uh No, not really. I'm just it's a good touchstone.

0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.360
<v Speaker 1>Sure, plus we could shade her for all kinds of reasons.

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.920
<v Speaker 1>Sure that don't involve speed of writing, if you really

0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:38.840
<v Speaker 1>want to do that. Who's the Game of Thrones guy?

0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:45.400
<v Speaker 1>That's what everyone's mad at him? Cc cc deville.

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.880
<v Speaker 2>No, it was his named George R. R. Martin.

0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, are they still mad at him?

0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Cheeses? People give him a break?

0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean, isn't that the deal. I don't even know

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.440
<v Speaker 1>anything about that stuff, but I think everyone's just like,

0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.040
<v Speaker 1>why aren't you finishing yet?

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Huh? Well? What about Michael Schiner Chuck?

0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, he was an enslaved person in Maryland and in

0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.520
<v Speaker 1>eighteen oh five was eventually a freeman. But he worked

0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 1>at the Washington Naval Yards for many decades and ended

0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.920
<v Speaker 1>up keeping a fifty six year diary that was maybe

0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:24.000
<v Speaker 1>like my friends Mike one day that'll be published after

0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 1>he died by historians. So all of a sudden, you

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:33.080
<v Speaker 1>have this amazing account of the life of an enslaved

0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.640
<v Speaker 1>person over fifty and then a free person over fifty

0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:36.280
<v Speaker 1>six years.

0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. He also was not educated. Born a slave, you

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.040
<v Speaker 2>typically weren't educated. In fact, that was usually illegal to

0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:46.400
<v Speaker 2>educate a slave at the time. So he taught himself, apparently.

0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.720
<v Speaker 2>So he uses his own spelling, his own grammar, very

0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 2>little punctuation, and he had to conserve paper as much

0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.920
<v Speaker 2>as possible, so he would kind of like write stuff

0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.960
<v Speaker 2>wherever there was space on an old page that he left.

0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow.

0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.880
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I think his grandson came along and kind

0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.600
<v Speaker 2>of organized it and it ended up being published.

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.320
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing. Yeah, And that's one thing you'll see as

0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 1>a tip later on, is to is to write as

0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.080
<v Speaker 1>good as you can write. If you're not some fancy

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:20.679
<v Speaker 1>great writer, like, don't worry about it.

0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, you can just write punctuation and academics

0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.840
<v Speaker 2>centuries later will come along and digitize your stuff and

0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.480
<v Speaker 2>translated essentially for everybody. It's it's that it can be

0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:32.320
<v Speaker 2>that important.

0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:37.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely. Josie Underwood is another great example, probably the

0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.320
<v Speaker 1>most famous civilian account of the Civil War. She was

0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.000
<v Speaker 1>au in a unique position because she was from a

0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.320
<v Speaker 1>Southern family in Kentucky, very prominent family in Bowling Green,

0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.199
<v Speaker 1>of slaveholders. But she was sympathetic to the Union cause.

0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.960
<v Speaker 1>And you know, she writes a very sort of honest

0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.320
<v Speaker 1>first person account as someone from that perspective throughout the

0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:03.160
<v Speaker 1>Civil War and it became very famous.

0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. But then interspersed with that with being occupied by

0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.400
<v Speaker 2>the Confederate Army and then the Union army, she also

0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:13.159
<v Speaker 2>like talked about normal life for like a society person

0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.440
<v Speaker 2>in Bowling Green, Kentucky, where you know, going to parties

0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.760
<v Speaker 2>or things like that, or looking for what she called

0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 2>her true prince a husband. So it has it's very

0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:26.879
<v Speaker 2>much like Samuel Peeps. There's historic events, but it's written

0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.680
<v Speaker 2>from the perspective of the individual who also writes about

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:30.280
<v Speaker 2>themselves too.

0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and this stuff is this is history. I mean,

0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 1>this is how we learn about history. If you read

0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 1>history books and they describe in great detail about how

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.400
<v Speaker 1>life was. Some of that is from research and clues

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.040
<v Speaker 1>and things like that, but some of that is from

0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 1>first person accounts.

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. There was another very very famous journal I don't

0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.639
<v Speaker 2>know if you'd call it a diary, but it was

0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:58.240
<v Speaker 2>from Captain Robert Falcon Scott, who led an expedition to

0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.439
<v Speaker 2>the South Pole in nineteen twelve, was trying to be

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:03.560
<v Speaker 2>the first expedition to the South Pole, and in fact

0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.680
<v Speaker 2>they reached the South Pole to find that a rival

0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.840
<v Speaker 2>explorer had beat them by one month, and so they

0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.560
<v Speaker 2>had to make it back to civilization. They never made

0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:17.320
<v Speaker 2>it back, so Scott chronicled their slow demise over weeks

0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.680
<v Speaker 2>trudging through the Arctic or the Antarctic, I should say,

0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:23.879
<v Speaker 2>just trying to get back to safety and then just

0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:24.600
<v Speaker 2>not doing it.

0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:26.360
<v Speaker 1>I bet that's a heavy read.

0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.160
<v Speaker 2>It is. I was reading it today and it's just it's, yeah,

0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.280
<v Speaker 2>it's crazy to put yourself in that situation, which he

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.040
<v Speaker 2>makes it easy to do in just these little, you know,

0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:43.199
<v Speaker 2>few sentence what do you call them, not inscriptions or installations, entries,

0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.720
<v Speaker 2>just a few sentences each typically, But yeah, it really

0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of draws you into like inside the tent where

0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 2>blizzard's going and one guy's nose is falling off because

0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.400
<v Speaker 2>it's so frost bit, and everybody's trying to keep their

0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.439
<v Speaker 2>spirits up kind of thing. Like he really, it's a

0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:00.600
<v Speaker 2>really moving journal. For sure.

0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.320
<v Speaker 1>There's another one. And I never knew how to pronounce

0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.680
<v Speaker 1>his name A nice nin But I finally, do they

0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.680
<v Speaker 1>listen to who the men? On YouTube? Yeah? You ever

0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.399
<v Speaker 1>listen to that guy? Yes, today we will learn to

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.920
<v Speaker 1>pronounce the name. Who is that a real person?

0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know anymore, No one knows anymore.

0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.080
<v Speaker 1>I gotta figure that out. That'd be a good short stuff.

0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:28.359
<v Speaker 1>Maybe even who's real? Who is that person?

0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:30.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay? Who are these people?

0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:36.360
<v Speaker 1>All right, we'll do it as Jerry Seinfelcker. Anyway, he said,

0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:38.760
<v Speaker 1>it was pronounced a nice nin. And this was the

0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.000
<v Speaker 1>course of very famous diary that she kept from age

0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.520
<v Speaker 1>eleven until and this is nineteen fourteen until she died

0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.399
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen seventy seven. And it was noteworthy and that

0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:52.240
<v Speaker 1>it was very sort of body stuff for the time.

0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.480
<v Speaker 1>She talked very personally about, you know, sort of romantic

0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 1>escapades that people did not talk about at the time.

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:04.320
<v Speaker 1>It was published in sixty six like a sanitized version

0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.840
<v Speaker 1>and was a big hit with the ladies largely, and

0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.159
<v Speaker 1>then she said, hey, after I die, why don't you

0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.680
<v Speaker 1>publish the full and uncensored version.

0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.680
<v Speaker 2>But even the sanitized version was like, I've been ing

0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:20.920
<v Speaker 2>a double life. I've been having this affair. I'm married

0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.440
<v Speaker 2>to two guys. I've split my life between New York

0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:27.439
<v Speaker 2>and Los Angeles, and my husband doesn't know, like just

0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:31.040
<v Speaker 2>all sorts of stuff. And she purposely published them while

0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.600
<v Speaker 2>she was alive. And I mean, that's a tremendous amount

0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:36.320
<v Speaker 2>of risk that she took on. She ended up becoming

0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:38.760
<v Speaker 2>a feminist icon, like basically overnight as a.

0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Result, another icon. You can't talk about diaries without talking

0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:50.200
<v Speaker 1>about Anne Frank. And this is something that I never knew. Obviously,

0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:52.879
<v Speaker 1>if you know, we'll tell you who Ann Frank is,

0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.760
<v Speaker 1>because I always think everyone knows, even because it's the

0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:58.159
<v Speaker 1>second most widely read book in the world after the Bible.

0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:02.760
<v Speaker 1>But Anne Frank wrote a diary between nineteen forty two

0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.640
<v Speaker 1>and nineteen forty four as a teenager, started at thirteen

0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:11.200
<v Speaker 1>hiding from the Nazis with her family and wrote this diary.

0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:15.280
<v Speaker 1>The thing I never knew is that she had planned

0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.320
<v Speaker 1>to publish it. As the story goes, she was inspired

0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:21.560
<v Speaker 1>by a radio transmission in nineteen forty four from the

0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:25.720
<v Speaker 1>Dutch government that said, hey, collect this and put it

0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:29.760
<v Speaker 1>on paper. All this everyday material about Nazi occupation, like

0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.080
<v Speaker 1>write it down so people know. And so she did

0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:37.240
<v Speaker 1>that and like rewrote it with the aim of publishing

0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:38.800
<v Speaker 1>it before she was captured.

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so her original diaries considered diary A. Like there's

0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:48.000
<v Speaker 2>entire people have written theses on parts of this stuff.

0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:51.840
<v Speaker 2>So the first one's Diary A, the one that she

0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:56.320
<v Speaker 2>rewrote intended for publication, that's considered Diary B. And her

0:22:56.359 --> 0:23:01.639
<v Speaker 2>father Auto, the only one who survived the Nazi occupation

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:05.200
<v Speaker 2>in the Netherlands of the family because they were found

0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:09.080
<v Speaker 2>out by the Gestapo and taken to concentration camps, which

0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:11.800
<v Speaker 2>is where Anne Frank was murdered as a girl. Still,

0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.080
<v Speaker 2>she would have been maybe fifteen or sixteen at the time.

0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Auto survived and he was given her journals and basically

0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:25.680
<v Speaker 2>had them put together journal Diary A and Diary B

0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:29.239
<v Speaker 2>to kind of create like a a version of it

0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:32.960
<v Speaker 2>for public consumption. And after he died, they published the

0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:37.280
<v Speaker 2>whole thing, and that's considered Diary C. And like you said,

0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:39.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's probably the second most read book in

0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:43.880
<v Speaker 2>the entire world after the Bible, and for good reason too.

0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:47.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like this the insight into history that it

0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:52.439
<v Speaker 2>gives is just amazing and unparalleled. But also there's a

0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.119
<v Speaker 2>poet named John Berryman who put it like this. He

0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:58.439
<v Speaker 2>said that the book is about the conversion of a

0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:02.960
<v Speaker 2>child into a person, and Frank's going through this conversion

0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:06.280
<v Speaker 2>from age thirteen to fifteen. Big big difference in ages.

0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Right there, thirteen to fifteen, A lot happened. Yeah, and

0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:12.960
<v Speaker 2>she's doing it hidden away in an attic in the Netherlands,

0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:16.119
<v Speaker 2>hiding out from the Nazi, hiding for her life.

0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:18.720
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever been to the an Frank House?

0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:18.879
<v Speaker 2>No?

0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:21.639
<v Speaker 1>I haven't you ever been to Amsterdam? Yes?

0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, make me feel bad, though, why don't you?

0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:28.879
<v Speaker 1>No, you shouldn't feel bad. I've been there a few times,

0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:31.320
<v Speaker 1>and I went once. I didn't go two times.

0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:33.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, at least she went once, though. I don't even

0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:36.679
<v Speaker 2>have that to boast about. But I would like to

0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:39.119
<v Speaker 2>go though. I mean, I can't imagine how moving that

0:24:39.160 --> 0:24:39.679
<v Speaker 2>place is.

0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:45.520
<v Speaker 2>So those are some famous examples of famous journals. I

0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:49.119
<v Speaker 2>guess you want to take another break and talk about

0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:51.399
<v Speaker 2>why people might write journals in the first place.

0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:54.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think it's another earliest break. But it aligns nicely.

0:24:55.240 --> 0:25:22.359
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So, Chuck, there's all sorts of reasons to write

0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.000
<v Speaker 2>in your journal, whether you're talking about limestone being delivered

0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:28.679
<v Speaker 2>to build a pyramid, or being enslaved in the navy

0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:34.800
<v Speaker 2>yards or being occupied by the Confederate Army. People have

0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:37.359
<v Speaker 2>been doing it for centuries and centuries and centuries without

0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:41.760
<v Speaker 2>any real intention to do anything other than get their

0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:44.639
<v Speaker 2>thoughts out on paper. And it wasn't until the nineteen

0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:49.600
<v Speaker 2>sixties that psychotherapists were like, you know, there's something to that.

0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:55.040
<v Speaker 2>People are putting their internal lives out into written form.

0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:57.880
<v Speaker 2>They're getting out of their minds and into the world.

0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:01.040
<v Speaker 2>There has to be some therapy to benefit to that.

0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:04.959
<v Speaker 2>And a therapist named Ira Progoff came up with what

0:26:04.960 --> 0:26:06.520
<v Speaker 2>it's called intensive journaling.

0:26:07.800 --> 0:26:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and like you said, it was in nineteen sixties,

0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:13.639
<v Speaker 1>and his version it was basically a notebook like a

0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:19.320
<v Speaker 1>three ring binder, with color coded sections about topically arranged

0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:25.000
<v Speaker 1>thematically arranged. It could be like dream recording your dreams,

0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:27.720
<v Speaker 1>which we'll talk about again a little bit later, could

0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:31.760
<v Speaker 1>have been just daily life stuff. It could be very like, hey,

0:26:31.760 --> 0:26:34.480
<v Speaker 1>write about a big event in your life, and we'll

0:26:34.480 --> 0:26:37.200
<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit more about trauma journaling later. Because

0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:40.840
<v Speaker 1>that can be very valuable and painful, I imagine. But

0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:46.560
<v Speaker 1>basically it's all about like almost like a meditation and

0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:51.240
<v Speaker 1>allowing things that were important to you or related to

0:26:51.280 --> 0:26:54.119
<v Speaker 1>you at different points of your life to come to

0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:56.480
<v Speaker 1>the forefront of your mind and just sort of write

0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:59.479
<v Speaker 1>out through the pin onto the paper or through your

0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:00.920
<v Speaker 1>fingis onto the keyboard.

0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Right. Yeah, you sit there for a few minutes reflecting

0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:06.639
<v Speaker 2>on the topic you've decided to focus on for that

0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:10.200
<v Speaker 2>journal entry. Then you write it, then you read what

0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:13.399
<v Speaker 2>you just wrote, and then you write your feelings about

0:27:13.800 --> 0:27:15.360
<v Speaker 2>writing it and then reading it.

0:27:16.240 --> 0:27:18.280
<v Speaker 1>That's got to be helpful, got to.

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Be And that's the point of all this. Like we're

0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:22.760
<v Speaker 2>going to get into some pretty deep bs here eventually.

0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:27.600
<v Speaker 2>But the upshot of it is there's a very very

0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:31.639
<v Speaker 2>little chance that it will be in any way harmful

0:27:33.000 --> 0:27:36.160
<v Speaker 2>and possibly very beneficial, and that it could be.

0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Difficult, yes, but that doesn't mean harmful.

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Right, And that that alone makes it worth at least

0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:43.960
<v Speaker 2>giving it a shot. And if it works for you, great,

0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:46.280
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't work for you, then you gave it a try.

0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. There's another guy named James Pinnabaker from Texas University

0:27:52.320 --> 0:27:56.520
<v Speaker 1>of Texas Austin. He's a psychologist that did studies on

0:27:56.560 --> 0:27:59.760
<v Speaker 1>what he called expressive writing. Been doing this since the eighties,

0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:03.480
<v Speaker 1>And he said, you know where I found or where

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:06.560
<v Speaker 1>he found it helpful was when you would just start

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:09.320
<v Speaker 1>out with like very disjointed sort of raw feelings and

0:28:09.359 --> 0:28:13.480
<v Speaker 1>things and then transform that into a story and into

0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:18.800
<v Speaker 1>a narrative. And the process of taking like a difficult experience,

0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:22.720
<v Speaker 1>maybe just writing down the eight feelings you had about it,

0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:25.200
<v Speaker 1>and then that gets a little more detailed and more

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:28.720
<v Speaker 1>detailed until you've turned it into a story can help

0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:31.280
<v Speaker 1>you handle that stuff more easily and help you live

0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:31.520
<v Speaker 1>with it.

0:28:31.640 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and there's actually studies to back this up. His

0:28:35.680 --> 0:28:38.120
<v Speaker 2>whole thing is like, you don't need to journal every day.

0:28:38.200 --> 0:28:41.080
<v Speaker 2>If you do, fine, that's great. But he found that

0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:45.520
<v Speaker 2>just one fifteen to thirty minute session of writing about

0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:51.080
<v Speaker 2>a difficult or traumatic experience can help relieve not just

0:28:51.280 --> 0:28:57.480
<v Speaker 2>psychological symptoms, but physiological symptoms as well, and that a

0:28:57.480 --> 0:28:59.479
<v Speaker 2>lot of studies have found that if you do like

0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:02.440
<v Speaker 2>three to five for fifteen to thirty minute sessions writing

0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:06.560
<v Speaker 2>about the same experience, it can really help work past

0:29:06.640 --> 0:29:09.560
<v Speaker 2>trauma that you've been carrying around. It's pretty amazing just

0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:10.480
<v Speaker 2>writing about it.

0:29:11.120 --> 0:29:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, some of the things they found in studies, a

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:17.440
<v Speaker 1>short term increase in distress or negative mood. That's what

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:19.160
<v Speaker 1>I was talking about, Like, it may be difficult in

0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:22.440
<v Speaker 1>the moment, you know, bringing up these bad memories, but

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:26.120
<v Speaker 1>it pays off in the long run. Evidence of improvements

0:29:26.120 --> 0:29:31.000
<v Speaker 1>in depressive systems, long term and emotional well being. Benefits

0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:34.400
<v Speaker 1>to physical health like lower blood pressure, better lung function,

0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:39.920
<v Speaker 1>less illness, less doctor visits, better immune system, more antibodies.

0:29:40.640 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 1>Pretty neat, pretty amazing.

0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And they think that it's just by getting this

0:29:45.600 --> 0:29:51.280
<v Speaker 2>thing out of your working memory, essentially, by documenting on paper,

0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:53.400
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to worry about remembering or thinking about it,

0:29:53.520 --> 0:29:56.880
<v Speaker 2>ruminating about it anymore. You put it out there, and

0:29:57.040 --> 0:30:01.320
<v Speaker 2>that that alone can lower your stress levels and your

0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:04.680
<v Speaker 2>immune system can kick back in to higher gear again.

0:30:05.520 --> 0:30:08.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I think he's the guy that really stressed, Like,

0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:10.720
<v Speaker 1>do it how you do it? If you want to

0:30:10.760 --> 0:30:12.560
<v Speaker 1>write it with a pen, fine, you can put it

0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:16.160
<v Speaker 1>in your phone, don't and don't worry about like writing well,

0:30:17.600 --> 0:30:20.320
<v Speaker 1>and don't worry about being fair even like you're doing

0:30:20.360 --> 0:30:23.520
<v Speaker 1>this for you, you're not doing this for publication, So

0:30:23.920 --> 0:30:26.240
<v Speaker 1>write about how you really feel, even if it's a

0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:29.920
<v Speaker 1>very selfish thing in the moment, and try and really

0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:33.520
<v Speaker 1>bring up a lot of sensory details and you know,

0:30:33.720 --> 0:30:38.320
<v Speaker 1>deep emotional, physical, sometimes feelings that you had at the

0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:42.920
<v Speaker 1>moment of this trauma. And be careful as you're doing it.

0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:46.440
<v Speaker 1>It's not like a therapy replacement, but ideally to be

0:30:46.560 --> 0:30:47.880
<v Speaker 1>used in conjunction with therapy.

0:30:48.120 --> 0:30:51.280
<v Speaker 2>Remember in our meditat Now our mindfulness episode where we

0:30:51.320 --> 0:30:54.640
<v Speaker 2>talked about some people who engage in mindfulness activities like

0:30:54.800 --> 0:30:58.760
<v Speaker 2>find that there they freak out because they accidentally uncovered

0:30:58.840 --> 0:31:02.320
<v Speaker 2>trauma and they weren't prepared right, Pennebaker kind of warns

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:05.760
<v Speaker 2>about the same thing. He says that there's too soon

0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:08.959
<v Speaker 2>for journaling. It can be that with that potent and

0:31:09.000 --> 0:31:12.280
<v Speaker 2>powerful that if you if it's if it follows too

0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:17.080
<v Speaker 2>closely after the actual traumatic event, it can be too

0:31:17.120 --> 0:31:18.880
<v Speaker 2>hard on you, and that you should have at least

0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:22.440
<v Speaker 2>some distance of time. And probably the more you know,

0:31:22.480 --> 0:31:26.160
<v Speaker 2>for a seriously traumatic event, you probably want to do

0:31:26.240 --> 0:31:29.720
<v Speaker 2>this under the advisement of a therapist. Don't necessarily try

0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:32.160
<v Speaker 2>to do it on yourself. So it's probably not going

0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:35.480
<v Speaker 2>to harm you, but the potential is there enough that

0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:40.200
<v Speaker 2>if this is, you could probably only be the only

0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:43.720
<v Speaker 2>judge for yourself. Right, this is so weighty that it

0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:47.880
<v Speaker 2>could break you mentally. You should probably talk to somebody

0:31:47.920 --> 0:31:50.160
<v Speaker 2>first about how to do it correctly or when to

0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:50.480
<v Speaker 2>do it.

0:31:51.080 --> 0:31:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally agree. A gratitude journal is something that I

0:31:54.920 --> 0:31:56.480
<v Speaker 1>had never really heard of.

0:31:56.720 --> 0:31:56.960
<v Speaker 2>Really.

0:31:57.280 --> 0:32:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, I never heard of though I've heard about

0:32:01.480 --> 0:32:04.520
<v Speaker 1>course gratitude and thankful and ruminating on that stuff, but

0:32:04.960 --> 0:32:08.000
<v Speaker 1>like actually writing it down a list or a journal

0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:11.400
<v Speaker 1>is a pretty popular thing that I'm a big dummy

0:32:11.400 --> 0:32:15.040
<v Speaker 1>for not knowing, because they've even done a meta analysis

0:32:15.080 --> 0:32:16.920
<v Speaker 1>and so that means there's a lot of studies on it.

0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:21.520
<v Speaker 1>In twenty twenty one, Japanese researchers did this analysis and

0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:25.080
<v Speaker 1>they found that it really helps with stress and depression

0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:28.520
<v Speaker 1>if you do it at least like six times, it

0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:30.360
<v Speaker 1>said over the course of a study. I'm not sure

0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:34.160
<v Speaker 1>what timeframe that is, but basically, like you know, it

0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:37.280
<v Speaker 1>can take a lot of forms. Noticing generosity that you

0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:41.600
<v Speaker 1>see walking around in the world, things that you're just

0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:46.280
<v Speaker 1>thankful for. It can help lead to you expressing gratitude

0:32:46.280 --> 0:32:48.520
<v Speaker 1>and thanks to others, and you can also note that,

0:32:49.520 --> 0:32:51.640
<v Speaker 1>but it's you know, sort of a version of what's

0:32:51.680 --> 0:32:57.040
<v Speaker 1>called positive affect journaling, which is basically focusing on positive

0:32:57.040 --> 0:33:00.840
<v Speaker 1>things and gratitude and ideally that's going to increase your

0:33:00.840 --> 0:33:02.880
<v Speaker 1>well being. And then it seems like it would.

0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. And they also say you want to

0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:11.640
<v Speaker 2>be very detailed, you want to typically focus on people,

0:33:11.800 --> 0:33:15.120
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily things that you're grateful for, although you can

0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:18.959
<v Speaker 2>focus on that, and that it's much better to focus

0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:22.440
<v Speaker 2>on a single topic rather than you know, list off

0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:24.440
<v Speaker 2>five things like I'm grateful for this, this, and this.

0:33:25.080 --> 0:33:29.000
<v Speaker 2>More like I'm grateful for this and this is why

0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:31.840
<v Speaker 2>is much more helpful as far as gratitude journals go.

0:33:32.880 --> 0:33:35.800
<v Speaker 2>I like that. Also, going back to the trauma things

0:33:35.840 --> 0:33:40.280
<v Speaker 2>just real quick, there was a twenty sixteen study by

0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:44.880
<v Speaker 2>a researcher named g. Jung Park, and they found that

0:33:46.640 --> 0:33:51.480
<v Speaker 2>people who use expressive journaling, which is writing about your

0:33:51.520 --> 0:33:54.520
<v Speaker 2>experience getting it out in those fifteen to thirty minute sessions,

0:33:55.840 --> 0:34:00.840
<v Speaker 2>they showed more self distance after journaling. And self distance

0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:04.040
<v Speaker 2>is actually it's a psychological term. It's a concept where

0:34:04.480 --> 0:34:09.360
<v Speaker 2>you are more detached emotionally from an event that you experienced,

0:34:09.880 --> 0:34:14.440
<v Speaker 2>and that by being able to distance yourself from it.

0:34:14.520 --> 0:34:17.080
<v Speaker 2>You're able to cope with it much easier, process it

0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:20.040
<v Speaker 2>better than when you're super all up in it and

0:34:20.080 --> 0:34:23.839
<v Speaker 2>it's overwhelming you. And they found that self distancing can

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:28.799
<v Speaker 2>be helped along by journaling about the event. Yeah.

0:34:28.840 --> 0:34:32.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's sort of that time heals wounds things,

0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:34.560
<v Speaker 1>And I think the idea here is it can help

0:34:34.600 --> 0:34:37.080
<v Speaker 1>sort of speed up that process, speed up that time.

0:34:37.400 --> 0:34:39.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it helps you get things off your chest.

0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:42.319
<v Speaker 2>It helps you clarify your thinking. And one other thing

0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:45.359
<v Speaker 2>that it really helps you do is see other people's perspectives.

0:34:46.719 --> 0:34:49.720
<v Speaker 1>And I imagine you may be able to put stuff

0:34:49.760 --> 0:34:52.400
<v Speaker 1>down on paper in private that you might not even

0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:54.840
<v Speaker 1>tell a therapist that you think that you can be

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:56.279
<v Speaker 1>completely open to you know.

0:34:56.320 --> 0:34:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Yes, ideally that you are sharing that level of openness

0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:03.120
<v Speaker 2>with your with your journal diary. That's from what I

0:35:03.120 --> 0:35:05.680
<v Speaker 2>can tell. The more you're able to do that, the

0:35:05.960 --> 0:35:09.160
<v Speaker 2>healthier it could conceivably be. Although I don't know if

0:35:09.160 --> 0:35:11.719
<v Speaker 2>you said it or not, but Pennebaker says, maybe you

0:35:11.800 --> 0:35:13.920
<v Speaker 2>don't want to journal every day because that can actually

0:35:14.120 --> 0:35:19.120
<v Speaker 2>potentially make you ruminate more on negative stuff because you're talking.

0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:24.560
<v Speaker 1>Like you said that actually did. I there are several

0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:26.680
<v Speaker 1>truths in your life. There is the truth you tell

0:35:26.719 --> 0:35:30.839
<v Speaker 1>your therapist, there's the truth you tell your doctor, and

0:35:30.880 --> 0:35:33.319
<v Speaker 1>then there's only one real truth, and that's the truth

0:35:33.360 --> 0:35:36.560
<v Speaker 1>that you tell yourself. Probably yeah, when no one else

0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:40.400
<v Speaker 1>knows anything, even the closest people in your life, I

0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:42.799
<v Speaker 1>think the truth you tell yourself is probably the truest thing.

0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:44.680
<v Speaker 2>You can also delude yourself though, too.

0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:47.359
<v Speaker 1>Oh well no, no, that's a completely different thing.

0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh oh sorry I brought that up.

0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:53.000
<v Speaker 1>No, you can lie to yourself. But uh, I think

0:35:53.040 --> 0:35:55.279
<v Speaker 1>that I don't know. That's just an opinion of mine,

0:35:55.280 --> 0:35:57.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, sure, And that's why I think that journaling

0:35:57.800 --> 0:36:00.480
<v Speaker 1>very privately could be like a really there thing.

0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:03.279
<v Speaker 2>For sure. It seems like, yeah, that's the thing when

0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:04.920
<v Speaker 2>I said we were going to wait into BS, Like,

0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:07.439
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of people out there who have tried

0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:10.440
<v Speaker 2>to qualify this, quantify it. Hr people who are like,

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:12.719
<v Speaker 2>maybe we should get all the employees to journal every day.

0:36:13.920 --> 0:36:17.040
<v Speaker 2>It's like this thing may work. So everybody's turned it

0:36:17.080 --> 0:36:20.560
<v Speaker 2>into a thing that you have to do, and if not,

0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:23.160
<v Speaker 2>then you're not you're not trying to achieve your goals,

0:36:23.200 --> 0:36:25.520
<v Speaker 2>and you're you're not living your best life or whatever.

0:36:26.920 --> 0:36:29.799
<v Speaker 2>It's it's just it's meant to be one of those

0:36:29.840 --> 0:36:32.200
<v Speaker 2>things that like, if it helps you, great, If it doesn't,

0:36:32.520 --> 0:36:34.880
<v Speaker 2>move on, it doesn't. It doesn't have to be this

0:36:34.960 --> 0:36:37.400
<v Speaker 2>thing that everybody has to do and benefit from in

0:36:37.480 --> 0:36:38.600
<v Speaker 2>exactly the same way.

0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I have a fun small collection of two to

0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:46.640
<v Speaker 1>three journal entries from various points in my Life's nice

0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:50.000
<v Speaker 1>where I would say I'm going to start doing this, man,

0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:51.879
<v Speaker 1>because I'd do something like this, or a teacher would

0:36:51.880 --> 0:36:53.799
<v Speaker 1>talk about it, and then all right, here we go,

0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:56.279
<v Speaker 1>and a few days then I stopped doing. Yeah.

0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:58.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's so easy to not do anymore.

0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:02.400
<v Speaker 1>I did have. I think the longest one I ever

0:37:02.520 --> 0:37:06.640
<v Speaker 1>kept was for one full quarter when we were in quarters.

0:37:06.640 --> 0:37:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Back then in college, I had a play writing class

0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:14.960
<v Speaker 1>I took, and my playwriting teacher had us as part

0:37:15.000 --> 0:37:17.799
<v Speaker 1>of the class, so it wasn't optional to do what

0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:22.080
<v Speaker 1>he called a commonplace journal, and that was just not

0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:24.680
<v Speaker 1>even your thoughts and emotions, just more in the as

0:37:24.680 --> 0:37:26.920
<v Speaker 1>a writer might do, like things you notice and things

0:37:26.920 --> 0:37:29.280
<v Speaker 1>that might inspire you in this in that commonplace. Then Okay,

0:37:29.920 --> 0:37:32.600
<v Speaker 1>so I did that for a quarter, but I don't

0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:35.759
<v Speaker 1>think I have that one. That's my biggest, most robust one,

0:37:36.000 --> 0:37:37.080
<v Speaker 1>and it's lost to time.

0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Poor guy.

0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:43.600
<v Speaker 1>There are all kinds of journals that have become popular

0:37:44.160 --> 0:37:47.400
<v Speaker 1>as far as like, oh, this person says this is

0:37:47.400 --> 0:37:50.520
<v Speaker 1>a very good way to do it. The artist way,

0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:53.560
<v Speaker 1>a self help book from ninety two by Julia Cameron,

0:37:53.560 --> 0:37:57.200
<v Speaker 1>talked about morning pages. So you just sort of and

0:37:57.239 --> 0:38:00.279
<v Speaker 1>this is based on the Jungian idea that you're ego

0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:03.399
<v Speaker 1>defense doesn't wake up until for forty five minutes after

0:38:03.480 --> 0:38:03.920
<v Speaker 1>you wake up.

0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:05.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I look that up, and I don't think that's

0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:07.560
<v Speaker 2>actually a thing that you never said.

0:38:08.360 --> 0:38:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh really, yeah, so did Julia Cameron, Like, I mean,

0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:16.680
<v Speaker 1>it is a self help book, right, anyway, that's the idea,

0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:18.560
<v Speaker 1>at least that sounds like it may or it may

0:38:18.600 --> 0:38:21.400
<v Speaker 1>not be true. But the whole idea is you do

0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:23.880
<v Speaker 1>this first thing in the morning, sort of stream of

0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:29.160
<v Speaker 1>consciousness style to get just sort of drain out your

0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:32.480
<v Speaker 1>brain of like stuff that might plague you throughout the

0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:33.040
<v Speaker 1>day later.

0:38:33.200 --> 0:38:36.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the point isn't to just write anything like inspirational

0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:38.080
<v Speaker 2>or good or where just to get it out like

0:38:38.160 --> 0:38:40.640
<v Speaker 2>you were saying, Yeah, that's a good example of what

0:38:40.680 --> 0:38:42.520
<v Speaker 2>I was talking about with the BS, like does it

0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:44.680
<v Speaker 2>have to be based on a Jungian idea? And that

0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:48.160
<v Speaker 2>is exactly forty five minutes. It's just like, hey, this works,

0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:50.360
<v Speaker 2>you guys should give it a try. Don't try to

0:38:50.400 --> 0:38:52.560
<v Speaker 2>write anything worth while. Just get out the crud that's

0:38:52.600 --> 0:38:54.080
<v Speaker 2>going to plague you for the rest of the day.

0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:57.040
<v Speaker 2>Why can't people present ideas like that anymore?

0:38:57.520 --> 0:39:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Know, yeah, just say do it when you're sweepy. That

0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:00.799
<v Speaker 1>seems to work.

0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly.

0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what do you got to bring young into this?

0:39:04.400 --> 0:39:06.880
<v Speaker 2>It's like, don't drag me into this just because you

0:39:06.960 --> 0:39:07.720
<v Speaker 2>use the word ego.

0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:12.960
<v Speaker 1>We talked about gratitude journals. What are bullet journals?

0:39:13.440 --> 0:39:16.800
<v Speaker 2>Theories are well, they were created by a digital designer

0:39:16.960 --> 0:39:21.040
<v Speaker 2>named right Carol, great digital designer name back in twenty thirteen,

0:39:21.680 --> 0:39:27.759
<v Speaker 2>and they're much more real world focused, like to do lists, calendars.

0:39:28.600 --> 0:39:30.400
<v Speaker 1>It seems like a life system exactly.

0:39:30.520 --> 0:39:34.040
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what it is in written form, and so

0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:36.759
<v Speaker 2>whatever you need to help you, like you're trying to

0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:39.120
<v Speaker 2>keep up with the meals you're eating for the week,

0:39:39.200 --> 0:39:42.399
<v Speaker 2>or the exercise you're doing, or the chores you have

0:39:42.480 --> 0:39:47.680
<v Speaker 2>to do or whatever you have. These different journals all

0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:50.440
<v Speaker 2>within this kind of bullet journal, these different sections or

0:39:50.480 --> 0:39:53.520
<v Speaker 2>segments to it that are typically laid out over time

0:39:53.560 --> 0:39:55.720
<v Speaker 2>a week, a month or something like that, or by section,

0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:59.080
<v Speaker 2>and people decorate them in very pretty ways.

0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:04.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, and it's also can be though not literally just uh,

0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:07.759
<v Speaker 1>things I have to get accomplished today, but like like

0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:10.440
<v Speaker 1>go to the store or go to this appointment, but

0:40:11.280 --> 0:40:13.919
<v Speaker 1>things you want to accomplish is in a holistic way,

0:40:14.280 --> 0:40:17.399
<v Speaker 1>like today I'm gonna I'm gonna really work on either

0:40:17.400 --> 0:40:20.799
<v Speaker 1>gratitude or thankfulness or empathy or something like that.

0:40:20.880 --> 0:40:23.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, here's I got to check the box next to empathy,

0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:25.360
<v Speaker 2>I empathize today.

0:40:25.480 --> 0:40:32.200
<v Speaker 1>Check that sounded slightly cynical. Dream journals Yeah, well I

0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:33.440
<v Speaker 1>don't do those either, no.

0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:38.200
<v Speaker 2>But so there are formal interpretation systems of dreams, like

0:40:38.239 --> 0:40:41.440
<v Speaker 2>if your tooth fall out, you're worried about your looks

0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:45.239
<v Speaker 2>or something like that. Right, those are clearly obviously just

0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:50.760
<v Speaker 2>totally wrong. But there is a usefulness to dream journals

0:40:50.760 --> 0:40:53.080
<v Speaker 2>in that it's it's very much like getting your thoughts

0:40:53.080 --> 0:40:57.200
<v Speaker 2>out with a with typical journaling. With dream journals, you're

0:40:57.600 --> 0:40:59.719
<v Speaker 2>recording the thoughts that you got out while you were

0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:02.560
<v Speaker 2>a dream before they you know, disappear, you know, in

0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:05.719
<v Speaker 2>that forty five minutes before your ego defenses go up, right.

0:41:06.400 --> 0:41:08.359
<v Speaker 2>But that's that's kind of the point of dream journal,

0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:11.239
<v Speaker 2>And you're almost visiting or you're recording these visits to

0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:14.759
<v Speaker 2>the other parts of your mind that you can't typically access,

0:41:14.840 --> 0:41:17.399
<v Speaker 2>so you're just jotting down what happened, and it can

0:41:17.440 --> 0:41:21.359
<v Speaker 2>affect your waking life in ways. I read a New

0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:25.560
<v Speaker 2>York Times letter from somebody who suggested doing this, and

0:41:25.640 --> 0:41:28.480
<v Speaker 2>they were, like, it makes when I dream about somebody

0:41:28.719 --> 0:41:30.680
<v Speaker 2>in a certain way, when I see them the next time,

0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:34.520
<v Speaker 2>I noticed those qualities about them. So like the dreams,

0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:38.200
<v Speaker 2>logging the dreams affects how they navigate waking life, which

0:41:38.200 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 2>sounds pretty neat.

0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:42.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean that sounds like the most fun one. Yeah,

0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:44.080
<v Speaker 1>just for no other reason than to go back and

0:41:44.080 --> 0:41:48.120
<v Speaker 1>read about fun weird dreams years later. Exactly, have you

0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:51.200
<v Speaker 1>ever woken up, uh, have you ever been like mad

0:41:51.239 --> 0:41:52.920
<v Speaker 1>at you me in a dream and woken up a

0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:56.000
<v Speaker 1>little bit like feeling a little mad, even though that's

0:41:56.000 --> 0:41:56.720
<v Speaker 1>totally unfairing.

0:41:56.760 --> 0:41:59.680
<v Speaker 2>No, not that specific thing, but I have been out

0:41:59.719 --> 0:42:03.000
<v Speaker 2>of works in many different ways from dreams, and it

0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:04.680
<v Speaker 2>takes a little while, because I mean, think about the

0:42:04.680 --> 0:42:07.560
<v Speaker 2>same neurochemicals are being released in your brain whether you're

0:42:07.560 --> 0:42:10.480
<v Speaker 2>awake or you're asleep while you're experiencing that, and yeah,

0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:12.600
<v Speaker 2>if they happen to still be flooding your brain when

0:42:12.640 --> 0:42:14.640
<v Speaker 2>you wake up, you're still gonna be feeling that way,

0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:14.840
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:42:15.760 --> 0:42:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Emily and I both had dreams where like one

0:42:18.680 --> 0:42:22.040
<v Speaker 1>of us did something to the other in sallity and

0:42:22.080 --> 0:42:23.920
<v Speaker 1>you wake up and you know it's unreasonable, and you

0:42:23.960 --> 0:42:25.640
<v Speaker 1>try to shake up. You're like, I'm sorry, I'm just

0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:27.600
<v Speaker 1>a little mad at you for my dream, and then

0:42:27.640 --> 0:42:29.400
<v Speaker 1>we laugh and talk about how unfair that is.

0:42:30.120 --> 0:42:34.480
<v Speaker 2>That happens to me in normal life too. With TV shows, like, uh,

0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:37.120
<v Speaker 2>they'll go to commercial break, you know, when you're watching

0:42:37.200 --> 0:42:40.319
<v Speaker 2>regular TV h and I'll be like, why am I

0:42:40.400 --> 0:42:43.120
<v Speaker 2>so like tense right now or upset? And I'll realize

0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:45.480
<v Speaker 2>it's because I just watched the kid get kidnapped on

0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Law and Order, and like that sensation is carried over

0:42:49.440 --> 0:42:52.160
<v Speaker 2>into the commercial break and now I'm suddenly paying attention

0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:54.120
<v Speaker 2>to it and wondering why I feel that way.

0:42:55.440 --> 0:42:58.439
<v Speaker 1>Uh, that's fun. We were in New York one time

0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:03.000
<v Speaker 1>and a similarly, we were we were leaving, like kind

0:43:03.000 --> 0:43:06.680
<v Speaker 1>of finishing up at our table, and the waiter came

0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:08.880
<v Speaker 1>over and says like, hey, you guys are about done right,

0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:10.759
<v Speaker 1>because someone you know is waiting to be seated, like

0:43:10.760 --> 0:43:12.480
<v Speaker 1>in a really nice way. We're like, yeah, yeah, we're

0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:14.320
<v Speaker 1>getting out of here. You can go go ahead and

0:43:14.360 --> 0:43:17.799
<v Speaker 1>bring him over or whatever. And uh, it was the

0:43:17.880 --> 0:43:22.800
<v Speaker 1>actor from that TV show The Killing, the Billy Campbell.

0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:24.879
<v Speaker 1>That didn't sound right, but maybe it is. I thought

0:43:24.920 --> 0:43:26.200
<v Speaker 1>he was like Swedish or something.

0:43:27.239 --> 0:43:29.680
<v Speaker 2>There was an original Swedish version of The Killing.

0:43:31.480 --> 0:43:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Uh is that what I watched?

0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:35.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know where the titles.

0:43:36.120 --> 0:43:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Billy Kimball's the other he is in that show. But

0:43:38.120 --> 0:43:39.440
<v Speaker 1>I was talking about Joel Kineman.

0:43:40.080 --> 0:43:43.239
<v Speaker 2>Is he the the congressman or the city councilman.

0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:46.920
<v Speaker 1>No, he was. He is Swedish, actually Swedish American. He

0:43:46.920 --> 0:43:48.680
<v Speaker 1>he was the partner.

0:43:49.160 --> 0:43:50.120
<v Speaker 2>That's Billy Campbell.

0:43:51.480 --> 0:43:55.919
<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't want to get too involved here because

0:43:55.920 --> 0:43:59.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to give anything away, but uh, Keneman

0:44:01.280 --> 0:44:02.280
<v Speaker 1>was for sure her partner.

0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:04.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, I guess I only made a past

0:44:04.800 --> 0:44:05.479
<v Speaker 2>season two.

0:44:08.000 --> 0:44:11.760
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, it was him and it was his TV show

0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:16.240
<v Speaker 1>and he had again I don't want to give anyway,

0:44:16.280 --> 0:44:18.439
<v Speaker 1>but he had just done he had been a bad

0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:22.800
<v Speaker 1>person in that week's episode, and I kind of scowled

0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:24.960
<v Speaker 1>and I was like you. I was like, I'm so

0:44:25.080 --> 0:44:27.160
<v Speaker 1>mad at you. And he was like, I'm sorry, bro.

0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:29.960
<v Speaker 1>He was like everybody he said on the streets this

0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:32.799
<v Speaker 1>week has been so rough. He was like, I'm so sorry.

0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:34.520
<v Speaker 1>And I was like, that's really kind of funny.

0:44:34.520 --> 0:44:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Actually, So you might be thinking of Peter Sarsgard, he

0:44:37.200 --> 0:44:37.600
<v Speaker 2>was in it.

0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:42.120
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean I'm thinking about Joel Caky.

0:44:42.200 --> 0:44:43.840
<v Speaker 2>So we're talking about the same person. I thought his

0:44:43.920 --> 0:44:46.560
<v Speaker 2>name was Billy Campbell. Billy Campbell was the or the

0:44:46.760 --> 0:44:47.560
<v Speaker 2>city councilman.

0:44:48.440 --> 0:44:52.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's older, he's like in his sixties, okay, and

0:44:52.320 --> 0:44:54.360
<v Speaker 1>he played he was the rocketeer.

0:44:54.800 --> 0:44:56.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I didn't know that. I never saw that movie.

0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:59.040
<v Speaker 2>It just looked creepy an art deco.

0:44:59.160 --> 0:45:01.440
<v Speaker 1>But I mean, I mean cop partner.

0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I know what you're talking about.

0:45:03.800 --> 0:45:07.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Joe Kinneman was the cop partner, right, Okay.

0:45:07.960 --> 0:45:09.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're talking about the same person. I just had

0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:13.640
<v Speaker 2>the name wrong. You had the name right. Is that

0:45:13.719 --> 0:45:15.239
<v Speaker 2>what you want to hear? Is that what you're holding

0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:15.839
<v Speaker 2>out for here.

0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:17.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm not holding out for anything.

0:45:17.200 --> 0:45:19.480
<v Speaker 2>You got anything else about journaling or diaries?

0:45:20.320 --> 0:45:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Uh?

0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:24.120
<v Speaker 2>Nah, Well, I think I speak for us all when

0:45:24.120 --> 0:45:27.360
<v Speaker 2>I say that we hope you find that quarter journal.

0:45:28.120 --> 0:45:29.400
<v Speaker 2>What was it called? The what journal?

0:45:29.760 --> 0:45:30.880
<v Speaker 1>The commonplace note.

0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Common place notebook? What a great name. Yeah, it seems

0:45:34.920 --> 0:45:37.520
<v Speaker 2>like something that would be stitched together with like fabric

0:45:37.560 --> 0:45:40.480
<v Speaker 2>and twine. You know, there's like a mushroom on it.

0:45:40.680 --> 0:45:44.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, sure, Chuck said, yeh.

0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Sure, everybody. That means it's time for a listener mail.

0:45:49.040 --> 0:45:51.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to call this things that we have recommended.

0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Did I read this? I don't think I did. I'll

0:45:54.120 --> 0:45:56.760
<v Speaker 1>read it again. Hey guys, my name is Evan Whitby

0:45:56.920 --> 0:46:01.000
<v Speaker 1>from Hendersonville, North Carolina. It's kind of a long one,

0:46:01.040 --> 0:46:03.400
<v Speaker 1>but I'll just say that Evan really loves the show

0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:05.960
<v Speaker 1>and it's meant a lot to him through his life.

0:46:06.760 --> 0:46:09.120
<v Speaker 1>In one of the biggest ways that it means a

0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:13.640
<v Speaker 1>lot is the recommendations movie recommendations that Evan has gotten

0:46:13.640 --> 0:46:16.279
<v Speaker 1>from us over the years. Sometimes it's a plug or

0:46:16.400 --> 0:46:19.040
<v Speaker 1>just comes up in conversation, but by this point I

0:46:19.080 --> 0:46:20.960
<v Speaker 1>trust your taste a lot, so I check most of

0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:23.799
<v Speaker 1>them out and then list a bunch of examples what

0:46:23.840 --> 0:46:27.439
<v Speaker 1>we do in the Shadows, Reservation Dogs, Larry Sanders Show,

0:46:28.200 --> 0:46:31.879
<v Speaker 1>Nate Bargatzi's stand up Eyes Wide Shut, just to name

0:46:31.920 --> 0:46:35.280
<v Speaker 1>a few that I particularly liked. And I just finished

0:46:35.280 --> 0:46:40.040
<v Speaker 1>watching both seasons of Dick Town, which was is John

0:46:40.080 --> 0:46:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Hodgmanshow David David Reese's show. Yeah, and you were right

0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:46.680
<v Speaker 1>and that it's the perfect length to finish it all

0:46:46.719 --> 0:46:49.920
<v Speaker 1>in one sitting. And as a native North Carolinian who

0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:51.920
<v Speaker 1>has lived all around the state my whole life, I

0:46:51.920 --> 0:46:55.319
<v Speaker 1>found it particularly funny. Go wolf Pack. I look forward

0:46:55.320 --> 0:46:57.440
<v Speaker 1>to many more lessons and many more laughs thanks to

0:46:57.520 --> 0:47:00.360
<v Speaker 1>the whole team. One Love Evan.

0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:03.560
<v Speaker 2>That's awesome. That is so much better than cheers, Evan.

0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for that.

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:05.640
<v Speaker 1>I like it.

0:47:06.239 --> 0:47:08.160
<v Speaker 2>If you want to be like Evan and say hey,

0:47:08.200 --> 0:47:11.400
<v Speaker 2>I really like this thing you guys recommended, or conversely,

0:47:11.440 --> 0:47:13.239
<v Speaker 2>you can say, hey, I really like this thing you

0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:15.600
<v Speaker 2>guys might not know about, so I want to recommend

0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:18.479
<v Speaker 2>it to you. We are always open for both of those.

0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:21.680
<v Speaker 2>You can send it in an email via One Love

0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:28.240
<v Speaker 2>to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:47:29.120 --> 0:47:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:47:32.120 --> 0:47:36.279
<v Speaker 1>more podcasts My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

0:47:36.400 --> 0:47:38.240
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.