1
00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:07,318
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:15,678 --> 00:00:18,718
Speaker 1: Hey there and welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast.

3
00:00:18,878 --> 00:00:23,198
Speaker 1: That's me Tom Berducci with of course Joe Madden and Joe.

4
00:00:23,238 --> 00:00:28,478
Speaker 1: I'm going to call today's episode our style episode. And

5
00:00:28,518 --> 00:00:30,958
Speaker 1: I've seen you rocking blue suede shoes, so I know

6
00:00:31,038 --> 00:00:32,998
Speaker 1: this is right up your alley. I'm going to start

7
00:00:33,118 --> 00:00:38,358
Speaker 1: since we had our podcast last week and we did

8
00:00:38,398 --> 00:00:41,358
Speaker 1: not know at the time Willie Mays's passing was the

9
00:00:41,398 --> 00:00:45,718
Speaker 1: same day. You think about style, you think about Willie Mays. Joe,

10
00:00:45,758 --> 00:00:48,598
Speaker 1: if I asked you to close your eyes and just

11
00:00:48,718 --> 00:00:52,598
Speaker 1: have an image of Willie Mays, what would it look like.

12
00:00:54,078 --> 00:00:56,918
Speaker 2: A basket catch? That would be the first thing that

13
00:00:56,958 --> 00:01:00,118
Speaker 2: comes to mind with him. And there's others obviously, but

14
00:01:00,198 --> 00:01:02,478
Speaker 2: that was the thing my dad always My dad was

15
00:01:02,478 --> 00:01:05,078
Speaker 2: a big Mas fan, and we're all influenced by our dads,

16
00:01:05,158 --> 00:01:10,318
Speaker 2: especially that generation, and the basket catch really signifies indicates

17
00:01:10,758 --> 00:01:11,558
Speaker 2: Willie Mays to me.

18
00:01:12,078 --> 00:01:15,638
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I've always said this about Willie Mays.

19
00:01:15,678 --> 00:01:19,158
Speaker 1: If you do think about him, you think of movement, right,

20
00:01:19,438 --> 00:01:21,678
Speaker 1: You think about the way, whether it's the basket catch

21
00:01:23,078 --> 00:01:25,478
Speaker 1: running on the bases first, the third, first to home

22
00:01:25,518 --> 00:01:28,678
Speaker 1: with the hat flying off, that big windmill swing of his,

23
00:01:29,558 --> 00:01:32,838
Speaker 1: you know, running down baseballs in the huge outfield, whether

24
00:01:32,878 --> 00:01:36,798
Speaker 1: it's Candlestick or Polo Grounds, the way he moved to

25
00:01:36,878 --> 00:01:39,918
Speaker 1: me define Willie Mays kind of like unlike anybody else.

26
00:01:40,278 --> 00:01:42,998
Speaker 1: And I know we can sit here and talk about

27
00:01:43,038 --> 00:01:46,798
Speaker 1: his incredible career and the numbers that he put up.

28
00:01:47,558 --> 00:01:49,878
Speaker 1: This is one way to look at it. If you

29
00:01:49,958 --> 00:01:55,278
Speaker 1: add up the entire careers of Hack Wilson and Ralph Kiner,

30
00:01:55,358 --> 00:01:57,958
Speaker 1: those are two Hall of famers. The two of them

31
00:01:57,998 --> 00:02:01,038
Speaker 1: together did not have as many hits or home runs

32
00:02:01,038 --> 00:02:05,078
Speaker 1: as Willie Mays. It's just incredible to me. But I

33
00:02:05,118 --> 00:02:09,558
Speaker 1: also say that defining Willie Mays by numbers, as fun

34
00:02:09,598 --> 00:02:12,878
Speaker 1: as it may be, that would be like defining Miles

35
00:02:12,958 --> 00:02:16,198
Speaker 1: Davis by how many albums he sold, right, It goes

36
00:02:16,318 --> 00:02:19,358
Speaker 1: way beyond the numbers. And I was lucky enough to

37
00:02:19,398 --> 00:02:22,758
Speaker 1: be at rick Wood Field last Thursday night. Major League

38
00:02:22,758 --> 00:02:25,278
Speaker 1: Baseball had planned that game between the Giants and the

39
00:02:25,318 --> 00:02:27,918
Speaker 1: Cardinals as a tribute to the Negro League's and to

40
00:02:27,998 --> 00:02:31,798
Speaker 1: Willie Mays, and of course Willy passed two days before

41
00:02:31,838 --> 00:02:35,438
Speaker 1: that game. But it was in some ways. I was

42
00:02:35,478 --> 00:02:38,798
Speaker 1: worried about the game, Joe, because of the timing of

43
00:02:38,838 --> 00:02:43,238
Speaker 1: Willy's death, But it was a true celebration of Willie

44
00:02:43,278 --> 00:02:45,958
Speaker 1: Mays and it really hit the right tone. And I

45
00:02:45,958 --> 00:02:49,558
Speaker 1: think it began with his son Michael Mays telling the

46
00:02:49,598 --> 00:02:52,638
Speaker 1: crowd at the beginning of the night, let Willy hear

47
00:02:52,678 --> 00:02:56,438
Speaker 1: you make some noise. And instead of being sort of

48
00:02:56,478 --> 00:03:01,518
Speaker 1: this sad night of remembrance, it was a celebration of life,

49
00:03:01,838 --> 00:03:03,478
Speaker 1: not the remembrance of his passing.

50
00:03:03,998 --> 00:03:05,718
Speaker 2: Well, you hit the nail on the head from me

51
00:03:05,918 --> 00:03:08,518
Speaker 2: and describing the whole thing, because there's no one way

52
00:03:08,558 --> 00:03:10,998
Speaker 2: to describe him. I picked out the basket catch, but

53
00:03:11,038 --> 00:03:14,118
Speaker 2: then you went on about all the other unique qualities

54
00:03:14,158 --> 00:03:17,718
Speaker 2: of him, and he was untethered. He was an athlete,

55
00:03:17,758 --> 00:03:21,398
Speaker 2: he was a baseball player. There was nothing scripted about him.

56
00:03:21,438 --> 00:03:24,198
Speaker 2: There's nothing like he learned stuff, obviously, but the way

57
00:03:24,238 --> 00:03:27,678
Speaker 2: he played was just like breathing to him. He never

58
00:03:27,758 --> 00:03:29,838
Speaker 2: had to think about it. It was just this is

59
00:03:29,878 --> 00:03:32,038
Speaker 2: who I am, this is how I played baseball. My

60
00:03:32,158 --> 00:03:34,438
Speaker 2: instincts are just I just got so many of them.

61
00:03:34,438 --> 00:03:36,598
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do with them all. And

62
00:03:36,678 --> 00:03:40,158
Speaker 2: with that, you saw. Your eyes couldnt move away from

63
00:03:40,238 --> 00:03:43,478
Speaker 2: him whenever you watch Willie Mays play baseball. And that's

64
00:03:43,518 --> 00:03:46,038
Speaker 2: the part of the historical part of our game that

65
00:03:46,078 --> 00:03:49,358
Speaker 2: I really miss and love is that. I mean players,

66
00:03:49,398 --> 00:03:52,358
Speaker 2: there's others, not just Willie that were like that, but

67
00:03:52,398 --> 00:03:54,958
Speaker 2: you cannot take your eyes off them. They did things

68
00:03:55,038 --> 00:03:58,718
Speaker 2: differently unique to them. You could talk about him and

69
00:03:58,798 --> 00:04:02,518
Speaker 2: you describe the several different methods that he incorporated. Stan

70
00:04:02,558 --> 00:04:05,358
Speaker 2: Mugel's peekaboo stance. You know, Tim Williams, the way he

71
00:04:05,358 --> 00:04:06,198
Speaker 2: held his hands.

72
00:04:06,558 --> 00:04:07,478
Speaker 3: We're talking about.

73
00:04:07,318 --> 00:04:11,678
Speaker 2: Hitting right now. Even more recently, Ricky Henderson, the way

74
00:04:11,678 --> 00:04:13,598
Speaker 2: he walked off first base to grab his lead in

75
00:04:13,638 --> 00:04:17,318
Speaker 2: the time and just go different wind ups. Bob Gibson

76
00:04:17,358 --> 00:04:20,678
Speaker 2: falling off to his left dramatically as he was on

77
00:04:20,678 --> 00:04:22,158
Speaker 2: one leg and his arms are up in.

78
00:04:22,158 --> 00:04:23,598
Speaker 3: The near like he's ready to take off.

79
00:04:24,118 --> 00:04:28,358
Speaker 2: This is the part that I really miss is you know,

80
00:04:28,518 --> 00:04:32,558
Speaker 2: we have advanced so far with our teaching, absolutely, but

81
00:04:32,598 --> 00:04:35,478
Speaker 2: then again, at what point do you take away some

82
00:04:35,638 --> 00:04:39,078
Speaker 2: natural movement from players that really eventually makes them who

83
00:04:39,078 --> 00:04:41,838
Speaker 2: they are? And that I've always been as a coach,

84
00:04:41,878 --> 00:04:44,158
Speaker 2: I've always been wary of that and aware of that.

85
00:04:44,838 --> 00:04:46,718
Speaker 2: I'm not banging on anybody, right, I'm just saying this

86
00:04:46,758 --> 00:04:50,238
Speaker 2: is how we've evolved. The fact that these guys did

87
00:04:50,278 --> 00:04:52,158
Speaker 2: things unique to them. Bob Boom, the way he sat

88
00:04:52,198 --> 00:04:53,998
Speaker 2: on the ground with his butt to catch the low

89
00:04:54,038 --> 00:04:58,958
Speaker 2: ball back then when it was not in vogue, was indigenous.

90
00:04:58,998 --> 00:05:02,398
Speaker 2: I always thought there was indigenous qualities too. Great players

91
00:05:03,318 --> 00:05:06,438
Speaker 2: curveballs was a really interesting thing to me. Guys with

92
00:05:06,518 --> 00:05:09,198
Speaker 2: good curveballs. Guys with good curveballs, I would ask them,

93
00:05:09,638 --> 00:05:12,958
Speaker 2: how do you grip it? Because there's a spalding guide

94
00:05:12,958 --> 00:05:15,078
Speaker 2: of gripping a curveball. How you hold your fingers along

95
00:05:15,118 --> 00:05:17,398
Speaker 2: the seams, how it pops out of your hand, the

96
00:05:17,478 --> 00:05:21,398
Speaker 2: rotation of the seams. But where's the thumb? And I've

97
00:05:21,398 --> 00:05:24,838
Speaker 2: always was curious, like Bert Bleilin would have his thumb

98
00:05:24,918 --> 00:05:27,318
Speaker 2: on the side of the ball. Mike Butcher, a pitching

99
00:05:27,358 --> 00:05:29,118
Speaker 2: coach you pitched some in the major leagues, had a

100
00:05:29,118 --> 00:05:31,998
Speaker 2: great curveball. Butchie had his thumb on the side of

101
00:05:31,998 --> 00:05:33,878
Speaker 2: the wall. How did you throw that thing? I always

102
00:05:33,878 --> 00:05:37,398
Speaker 2: researched guys that were good, really good, how'd you do that?

103
00:05:37,598 --> 00:05:40,598
Speaker 2: How did you hold that? Grip your bat? How heavy

104
00:05:40,678 --> 00:05:44,198
Speaker 2: was your bat? How long was your bat? Things of that, catchers,

105
00:05:44,238 --> 00:05:46,158
Speaker 2: how tight did you have your strings across the top

106
00:05:46,198 --> 00:05:49,038
Speaker 2: of your mit? Things like that. I've always found you interesting.

107
00:05:49,118 --> 00:05:52,678
Speaker 2: So the great players I always thought were great because

108
00:05:52,718 --> 00:05:54,478
Speaker 2: they did things unique to them.

109
00:05:55,078 --> 00:05:57,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe, you just reminded me of one of the

110
00:05:57,558 --> 00:06:00,478
Speaker 1: themes that pops up in our book, The Book of Joe,

111
00:06:00,838 --> 00:06:04,078
Speaker 1: about never get in the way of greatness. And you

112
00:06:04,238 --> 00:06:07,478
Speaker 1: just described Willie Mays. You know the uniqueness of Willie.

113
00:06:07,518 --> 00:06:10,198
Speaker 1: First of all, he'd loved to play the game and

114
00:06:10,278 --> 00:06:13,318
Speaker 1: he knew and this goes back to growing up as

115
00:06:13,358 --> 00:06:16,078
Speaker 1: a professional in the Negro leagues, where it was about

116
00:06:16,238 --> 00:06:19,158
Speaker 1: entertainment as well as competition, right. I mean, you're trying

117
00:06:19,158 --> 00:06:20,878
Speaker 1: to sell tickets, you want people to come back to

118
00:06:20,918 --> 00:06:23,318
Speaker 1: the ballpark the next day. You learn to put on

119
00:06:23,358 --> 00:06:25,878
Speaker 1: a show, and William Mays did that. Whether it's an

120
00:06:25,918 --> 00:06:29,998
Speaker 1: aggressive style of play where let's face it, nobody was

121
00:06:30,038 --> 00:06:33,958
Speaker 1: breaking down percentages and they were risk averse because you

122
00:06:34,038 --> 00:06:37,358
Speaker 1: knew the percentages too much. You know, you push the envelope.

123
00:06:37,398 --> 00:06:40,638
Speaker 1: Whether it was stealing bases, taking the extra base, or

124
00:06:40,678 --> 00:06:43,998
Speaker 1: swinging really hard. Willie Mays put on a show. There's

125
00:06:43,998 --> 00:06:46,478
Speaker 1: a reason as cap fell off running the basis because

126
00:06:46,518 --> 00:06:48,158
Speaker 1: he made sure he wore a cap that was a

127
00:06:48,238 --> 00:06:51,918
Speaker 1: size too small. It was all for show. The basket

128
00:06:51,958 --> 00:06:54,558
Speaker 1: catch you, reverenced. He picked it up when he was

129
00:06:54,598 --> 00:06:57,598
Speaker 1: playing ball in the Army, and he did it not

130
00:06:57,718 --> 00:07:01,278
Speaker 1: because it was a mechanically proper way to catch a baseball,

131
00:07:01,318 --> 00:07:04,318
Speaker 1: but he said he did it just purely for fun.

132
00:07:04,678 --> 00:07:07,598
Speaker 1: It was a fun way to catch a baseball. That's it.

133
00:07:08,238 --> 00:07:10,278
Speaker 1: Nobody taught him that. It wasn't a coach, you know,

134
00:07:10,398 --> 00:07:12,838
Speaker 1: with the Spaulding guide saying hey, get two hands up,

135
00:07:12,918 --> 00:07:15,278
Speaker 1: catch the ball above your head. No, he just wanted

136
00:07:15,318 --> 00:07:19,118
Speaker 1: to have fun playing baseball. So he actually said Joe

137
00:07:19,158 --> 00:07:23,358
Speaker 1: that he made the difficult catches look easy and the

138
00:07:23,478 --> 00:07:26,438
Speaker 1: easy catches look difficult. So he didn't want to camp

139
00:07:26,518 --> 00:07:28,598
Speaker 1: underneath the fly ball, right. He wanted to catch it

140
00:07:28,638 --> 00:07:31,678
Speaker 1: on the run. So maybe he might wait a beat

141
00:07:31,798 --> 00:07:34,478
Speaker 1: or two to start running that ball down just so

142
00:07:34,478 --> 00:07:37,078
Speaker 1: he can catch it on the run. That was Willy Mays,

143
00:07:37,198 --> 00:07:40,038
Speaker 1: And I think about the game today and with the game,

144
00:07:40,278 --> 00:07:43,798
Speaker 1: allow Willy Mays to be Willy Mays. First of all,

145
00:07:43,798 --> 00:07:46,398
Speaker 1: he played a more shallow center field because he was

146
00:07:46,438 --> 00:07:48,798
Speaker 1: so good going back on the ball. You watch outfield

147
00:07:48,878 --> 00:07:51,598
Speaker 1: defenders today, they are all playing deep, and there's a

148
00:07:51,598 --> 00:07:53,438
Speaker 1: reason why it's hard to get an extra base hit

149
00:07:53,558 --> 00:07:57,198
Speaker 1: in the major leagues today. It's outfield depth. You look

150
00:07:57,278 --> 00:08:00,518
Speaker 1: at the load management in the game today. Oh, you

151
00:08:00,598 --> 00:08:02,398
Speaker 1: played three four days in a row. You got to

152
00:08:02,558 --> 00:08:03,558
Speaker 1: next day's got to come off.

153
00:08:03,558 --> 00:08:04,558
Speaker 3: Willie is the.

154
00:08:04,518 --> 00:08:07,958
Speaker 1: Only player in history who played one hundred and fifty

155
00:08:07,998 --> 00:08:13,518
Speaker 1: games or more for thirteen consecutive seasons. Not Cal Ripkin,

156
00:08:13,878 --> 00:08:17,038
Speaker 1: not lou gereg Willie Mays was five to eleven one

157
00:08:17,038 --> 00:08:18,918
Speaker 1: point seventy and he played more than one hundred and

158
00:08:18,998 --> 00:08:23,438
Speaker 1: fifty games for thirteen consecutive seasons. Would that happen today?

159
00:08:24,158 --> 00:08:28,998
Speaker 1: Never positioning on defense, you imagine Willie Mays with a

160
00:08:29,038 --> 00:08:32,238
Speaker 1: Laminade card in his pocket telling him where to play. Somebody.

161
00:08:32,678 --> 00:08:37,038
Speaker 1: Willie Mays was had such a high baseball IQ. He

162
00:08:37,358 --> 00:08:41,438
Speaker 1: actually put the defenders on the Giants in the proper places.

163
00:08:41,558 --> 00:08:43,278
Speaker 1: He was the one who set the defense. He was

164
00:08:43,318 --> 00:08:45,718
Speaker 1: the one who ran the hitters meeting before the game.

165
00:08:45,918 --> 00:08:49,358
Speaker 1: He actually spoke to the Giants' pitchers about developing a

166
00:08:49,398 --> 00:08:52,478
Speaker 1: game plan going into a game, about how to defend

167
00:08:52,638 --> 00:08:55,998
Speaker 1: or pitch to the other team's hitters. That was Willie

168
00:08:56,038 --> 00:08:58,518
Speaker 1: Mays and I'm sorry, but the way the game is now,

169
00:08:58,638 --> 00:09:01,398
Speaker 1: I don't think he gets that same freedom to roam

170
00:09:01,438 --> 00:09:05,998
Speaker 1: the outfield where and when he wants to play virtually

171
00:09:06,198 --> 00:09:09,278
Speaker 1: every single day playing center field, stealing bases, and as

172
00:09:09,278 --> 00:09:11,478
Speaker 1: hard as he played the game, it just wouldn't happen.

173
00:09:11,758 --> 00:09:14,838
Speaker 1: And you know, I say it's a bad thing. I'm saying,

174
00:09:14,878 --> 00:09:18,478
Speaker 1: the way that the game has evolved, Joe, it's almost

175
00:09:18,518 --> 00:09:21,038
Speaker 1: like we know the percentage is too well, you know

176
00:09:21,238 --> 00:09:23,958
Speaker 1: that we have to get ahead in terms of resting

177
00:09:23,998 --> 00:09:26,198
Speaker 1: guys or whatever it may be. There was a certain

178
00:09:26,318 --> 00:09:29,758
Speaker 1: unbridled joy to Willie Mays because the game allowed him

179
00:09:29,878 --> 00:09:30,758
Speaker 1: to be Willie Mays.

180
00:09:31,958 --> 00:09:36,438
Speaker 2: Maybe write down four words or for little phrases. There boundaries,

181
00:09:36,558 --> 00:09:40,918
Speaker 2: social criticism, paying attention and instincts. There were no boundaries.

182
00:09:41,158 --> 00:09:44,198
Speaker 2: I mean, these guys came to play every day. Of course,

183
00:09:44,198 --> 00:09:46,478
Speaker 2: there was coaching, and I'm here to tell you even

184
00:09:46,478 --> 00:09:48,558
Speaker 2: when I played in the mid seventies, the coaching was

185
00:09:48,598 --> 00:09:52,718
Speaker 2: not as sophisticated. There was not as much interference. You

186
00:09:52,758 --> 00:09:54,358
Speaker 2: had to figure a lot of things out for yourself.

187
00:09:54,478 --> 00:09:58,638
Speaker 2: Even for me, really a real novice, not an accomplished player,

188
00:09:58,638 --> 00:10:01,318
Speaker 2: but there was coaching, but again you had to like

189
00:10:01,358 --> 00:10:03,758
Speaker 2: figure out things if you were swinging like under the

190
00:10:04,158 --> 00:10:07,878
Speaker 2: for instance, or over the ball in certain situations, how

191
00:10:07,918 --> 00:10:08,878
Speaker 2: do I make this adjustment?

192
00:10:08,878 --> 00:10:09,678
Speaker 3: What do I need to do?

193
00:10:10,358 --> 00:10:11,758
Speaker 2: And you had to figure it out yourself a lot

194
00:10:11,798 --> 00:10:13,278
Speaker 2: of times. If there was a player on the team

195
00:10:13,318 --> 00:10:15,278
Speaker 2: that helped, he would be the guy you would go to.

196
00:10:15,358 --> 00:10:18,998
Speaker 2: But the manager himself was not always adept at helping

197
00:10:18,998 --> 00:10:22,598
Speaker 2: you make these kind of adjustments, so you had to

198
00:10:22,598 --> 00:10:24,998
Speaker 2: figure things out for yourself. You had to pay attention

199
00:10:25,318 --> 00:10:28,118
Speaker 2: and again that there's some boundaries and incorporated into that

200
00:10:28,158 --> 00:10:29,958
Speaker 2: what are you permitted to do and not permitted to do?

201
00:10:30,358 --> 00:10:31,958
Speaker 2: I guess what I'm saying is at that time, you're

202
00:10:31,998 --> 00:10:33,958
Speaker 2: almost permitted to do anything, even as a young a

203
00:10:34,038 --> 00:10:36,198
Speaker 2: ball player if it worked. I mean I used to

204
00:10:36,238 --> 00:10:38,118
Speaker 2: throw like Therman months in a lot because I always

205
00:10:38,118 --> 00:10:40,278
Speaker 2: wanted to get rid of the ball as quickly as

206
00:10:40,278 --> 00:10:42,478
Speaker 2: I could. But nobody said I couldnot, and they kind

207
00:10:42,518 --> 00:10:43,718
Speaker 2: of liked it, you know, and I got good at

208
00:10:43,758 --> 00:10:46,558
Speaker 2: it for a while. But there was no boundaries. It

209
00:10:46,798 --> 00:10:49,478
Speaker 2: is who this is. I'm watching guys on TV, I'm

210
00:10:49,478 --> 00:10:52,998
Speaker 2: watching whatever, and my body works in a certain way,

211
00:10:53,358 --> 00:10:55,678
Speaker 2: and I'm an attempt to be good and play well

212
00:10:55,758 --> 00:11:00,158
Speaker 2: on a nightly basis by incorporating what I've seen, how

213
00:11:00,158 --> 00:11:02,598
Speaker 2: my body feels, how my body moves, figuring it out

214
00:11:02,638 --> 00:11:06,038
Speaker 2: myself internally mentally, and making the adjustments. A lot of

215
00:11:06,198 --> 00:11:09,078
Speaker 2: was at that and what that does it turns into

216
00:11:09,638 --> 00:11:11,838
Speaker 2: or maybe you're relying on your instincts or the other

217
00:11:11,878 --> 00:11:13,518
Speaker 2: sports you have played throughout your life.

218
00:11:13,718 --> 00:11:16,478
Speaker 3: Release of a football, how that felt when they're risk.

219
00:11:16,318 --> 00:11:18,758
Speaker 2: Snapped properly at the point of release, and you want

220
00:11:18,758 --> 00:11:20,478
Speaker 2: it that same kind of a feeling as a catcher

221
00:11:20,478 --> 00:11:21,758
Speaker 2: as you let the ball come out of your hand

222
00:11:21,798 --> 00:11:24,358
Speaker 2: and go to second base, or even as a pitcher.

223
00:11:24,518 --> 00:11:28,038
Speaker 2: All these things were taught, I mean by you were

224
00:11:28,278 --> 00:11:30,558
Speaker 2: suggested by maybe your father and stuff, and a couple

225
00:11:30,598 --> 00:11:32,278
Speaker 2: of coaches, like I said, but for the most part,

226
00:11:32,518 --> 00:11:35,078
Speaker 2: you taught yourself, which is still the best way to

227
00:11:35,158 --> 00:11:38,238
Speaker 2: learn something. Last point, social criticism. I think that's what

228
00:11:38,238 --> 00:11:41,118
Speaker 2: we're talking about here, not only social criticians, but the

229
00:11:41,198 --> 00:11:44,798
Speaker 2: control that coaching has evolved so much, and whether it's

230
00:11:44,798 --> 00:11:47,238
Speaker 2: analytics or whatever it might be, there's so much information

231
00:11:47,358 --> 00:11:49,678
Speaker 2: out there that we always think that we know it's

232
00:11:49,718 --> 00:11:52,758
Speaker 2: best for everybody else in an athlete in this situation

233
00:11:53,318 --> 00:11:56,158
Speaker 2: in particular, and then if you make mistakes, if you

234
00:11:56,198 --> 00:11:59,918
Speaker 2: had dropped a basket catcher too, I mean, he got

235
00:12:00,198 --> 00:12:02,798
Speaker 2: land based it, and then you'd have to have the

236
00:12:02,838 --> 00:12:04,518
Speaker 2: people to back him up and say no, will they

237
00:12:04,518 --> 00:12:06,638
Speaker 2: I want you to stay with this. It's great for

238
00:12:06,678 --> 00:12:09,678
Speaker 2: the game that people love it. It's just an anomaly moment.

239
00:12:10,038 --> 00:12:11,958
Speaker 2: But no, you're gonna get You're gonna get hammered for

240
00:12:11,998 --> 00:12:14,038
Speaker 2: the fact that you dropped one ball because you were

241
00:12:14,038 --> 00:12:15,758
Speaker 2: trying to play it up a little bit, which he

242
00:12:15,958 --> 00:12:18,998
Speaker 2: was in another way. He kind of said that. So

243
00:12:19,598 --> 00:12:24,238
Speaker 2: all these things were so cool, and that's what really

244
00:12:24,278 --> 00:12:26,998
Speaker 2: made the game fun, the characters of the game, the

245
00:12:27,038 --> 00:12:29,878
Speaker 2: great athletes of the game playing baseball, the way their

246
00:12:29,918 --> 00:12:33,438
Speaker 2: body worked, how their minds worked, what they felt, the

247
00:12:33,838 --> 00:12:37,478
Speaker 2: freedom that they felt to perform and do things in

248
00:12:37,518 --> 00:12:41,038
Speaker 2: different ways, which really has been.

249
00:12:41,158 --> 00:12:43,758
Speaker 3: Kind of mitigated. And I know this.

250
00:12:44,358 --> 00:12:47,758
Speaker 2: I've watched it specifically in an early nineteen eighties when

251
00:12:47,798 --> 00:12:52,038
Speaker 2: I thought that's pretty much the mark when coaching hit

252
00:12:52,078 --> 00:12:55,878
Speaker 2: another level, or it became more specific, more broken down,

253
00:12:56,198 --> 00:12:59,078
Speaker 2: whether you're talking about hitting, pitching, whatever. I started to

254
00:12:59,118 --> 00:13:02,558
Speaker 2: be around coaches that were more into breaking things down.

255
00:13:03,238 --> 00:13:05,918
Speaker 2: Players wanted to hear it. Of course, it made people better,

256
00:13:06,158 --> 00:13:08,278
Speaker 2: but to the point sometimes I don't know that it

257
00:13:08,318 --> 00:13:12,438
Speaker 2: became overly oppressive. Long answer, maybe I'm going all over

258
00:13:12,478 --> 00:13:13,758
Speaker 2: the place, and i don't know if I'm explaining to

259
00:13:13,798 --> 00:13:16,158
Speaker 2: myself well enough or not. But I've seen all these

260
00:13:16,158 --> 00:13:20,118
Speaker 2: different changes, and I'm all about the athlete, and like

261
00:13:20,198 --> 00:13:23,238
Speaker 2: you just mentioned earlier, as a coach, as a manager,

262
00:13:23,318 --> 00:13:26,198
Speaker 2: I never wanted to stand in the way of greatness

263
00:13:26,198 --> 00:13:28,198
Speaker 2: of any individual player athlete.

264
00:13:28,558 --> 00:13:31,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, we love the game today and it's played

265
00:13:31,598 --> 00:13:34,438
Speaker 1: at such a high level. It's just remarkable. The speed

266
00:13:34,438 --> 00:13:36,638
Speaker 1: of the game, the power of the game, and information

267
00:13:36,718 --> 00:13:40,878
Speaker 1: has definitely improved a lot of the methodologies of how

268
00:13:40,918 --> 00:13:43,838
Speaker 1: this game is played, especially pitching. But there's always a

269
00:13:43,918 --> 00:13:48,238
Speaker 1: cost to change or evolution. To me, the cost is

270
00:13:48,398 --> 00:13:52,718
Speaker 1: just the genius embedded in those players who had something

271
00:13:52,838 --> 00:13:56,158
Speaker 1: in their heads that others didn't. And this story I

272
00:13:56,198 --> 00:13:58,998
Speaker 1: always tell Joe is about the tiebreaker game between the

273
00:13:59,078 --> 00:14:01,278
Speaker 1: Yankees and the Red Sox in the nineteen seventy eight

274
00:14:01,878 --> 00:14:04,878
Speaker 1: and Lou Panela was playing right field. Ron Gidrey was

275
00:14:04,878 --> 00:14:08,158
Speaker 1: on the mound on short rest for the Yankees, and

276
00:14:08,318 --> 00:14:11,238
Speaker 1: Freddy Lynn was up and it was a middle of

277
00:14:11,278 --> 00:14:13,438
Speaker 1: the game with a couple of runners on base, and

278
00:14:13,518 --> 00:14:16,318
Speaker 1: Freddy Lynn hits a ball against Gidriy right down the

279
00:14:16,438 --> 00:14:19,518
Speaker 1: right field line, and Freddy wasn't a true pole hitter,

280
00:14:19,558 --> 00:14:23,478
Speaker 1: and especially against Guidry who was unbelievable that year, and

281
00:14:23,558 --> 00:14:26,238
Speaker 1: fred linn thought for sure he had a basis clearing

282
00:14:26,278 --> 00:14:28,838
Speaker 1: double and he looks up and there's Lou Panella near

283
00:14:28,918 --> 00:14:31,438
Speaker 1: the right field line where he would never have played,

284
00:14:31,478 --> 00:14:34,878
Speaker 1: and he makes the catch, enning over and fred Lin

285
00:14:34,878 --> 00:14:37,758
Speaker 1: after the game talked about man Loupenello was just so

286
00:14:37,958 --> 00:14:40,598
Speaker 1: lucky to be in that spot, and Panella said, you

287
00:14:40,638 --> 00:14:43,238
Speaker 1: know what, it really wasn't luck. He said, I saw

288
00:14:43,318 --> 00:14:46,598
Speaker 1: that Guidriy was on short rest, that they had hit

289
00:14:46,638 --> 00:14:49,678
Speaker 1: a couple of pole foul balls hard early in the game,

290
00:14:49,838 --> 00:14:52,118
Speaker 1: and I could see that he didn't have the usual

291
00:14:52,198 --> 00:14:55,718
Speaker 1: zip on his fastball, So on his own, lou Panella

292
00:14:55,798 --> 00:14:58,758
Speaker 1: played a couple of steps over and sure enough he's

293
00:14:58,798 --> 00:15:01,998
Speaker 1: there to make the catch. That's not allowed to happen

294
00:15:02,078 --> 00:15:05,198
Speaker 1: in the game today because everybody he's following a script

295
00:15:05,318 --> 00:15:07,718
Speaker 1: and we do that in our lives, Joe. I mean,

296
00:15:08,198 --> 00:15:11,358
Speaker 1: who has a map in their glove compartment anymore? I

297
00:15:11,478 --> 00:15:14,318
Speaker 1: dare you to try to give directions to somebody and

298
00:15:14,478 --> 00:15:17,078
Speaker 1: know the names of the streets that the person is

299
00:15:17,118 --> 00:15:20,718
Speaker 1: supposed to turn on. You can't. Why because we have

300
00:15:20,878 --> 00:15:24,558
Speaker 1: taken the CPU in our head and we're putting downloading

301
00:15:24,598 --> 00:15:26,518
Speaker 1: a lot of that information we should have in our

302
00:15:26,558 --> 00:15:30,558
Speaker 1: heads to an external hard drive, which is basically called Google. Right,

303
00:15:31,238 --> 00:15:34,078
Speaker 1: we don't need to know a lot of things, and

304
00:15:34,158 --> 00:15:39,758
Speaker 1: so we're not thinking naturally intrinsically. And I think you

305
00:15:39,798 --> 00:15:42,078
Speaker 1: see the same thing with the way the baseball is

306
00:15:42,118 --> 00:15:45,318
Speaker 1: played now, and again, it doesn't mean it's worse. It

307
00:15:45,398 --> 00:15:47,598
Speaker 1: just means we have so much more at our disposal

308
00:15:48,198 --> 00:15:51,678
Speaker 1: that we're not relying on that natural genius, if you will.

309
00:15:51,718 --> 00:15:53,718
Speaker 1: And that's not to say natural genius is right one

310
00:15:53,798 --> 00:15:57,078
Speaker 1: hundred percent of the time, but it makes you appreciate

311
00:15:57,198 --> 00:16:01,038
Speaker 1: the way Willie Mays played the game in the context

312
00:16:01,038 --> 00:16:03,518
Speaker 1: of what we have today. That's my point is that

313
00:16:03,558 --> 00:16:07,398
Speaker 1: there was a certain I guess you'd called baseball instincts, Joe,

314
00:16:07,438 --> 00:16:11,478
Speaker 1: But the way those people separate themselves from others was

315
00:16:11,638 --> 00:16:15,958
Speaker 1: not because they had all this information. It was because

316
00:16:15,958 --> 00:16:18,398
Speaker 1: of what they observed and what they knew.

317
00:16:18,518 --> 00:16:21,038
Speaker 2: Naturally, there was a freedom about it. You're describing a

318
00:16:21,118 --> 00:16:23,838
Speaker 2: freedom because they felt like they could do those things.

319
00:16:24,078 --> 00:16:26,398
Speaker 2: Players today don't have that same kind of internal or

320
00:16:26,438 --> 00:16:29,358
Speaker 2: mental freedom, and furthermore, like you said, they don't on

321
00:16:29,398 --> 00:16:33,198
Speaker 2: their hard drive basically have the knowledge or instincts to

322
00:16:33,238 --> 00:16:36,078
Speaker 2: make the kind of adjustments that lu med. I'm not

323
00:16:36,118 --> 00:16:39,398
Speaker 2: saying everybody. I've played with the management players that are

324
00:16:39,478 --> 00:16:42,158
Speaker 2: really good and see things, And that's one thing I've

325
00:16:42,198 --> 00:16:44,558
Speaker 2: always well, that's the phrase I don't know how many

326
00:16:44,558 --> 00:16:47,918
Speaker 2: times I've used throughout my career. I love players and

327
00:16:47,998 --> 00:16:51,998
Speaker 2: coaches that see things in advance, not post stuff. Don't

328
00:16:52,158 --> 00:16:54,678
Speaker 2: be the post mortem stuff and talk about things that,

329
00:16:54,718 --> 00:16:56,998
Speaker 2: oh I wish I had done this, No, no, tell

330
00:16:57,038 --> 00:16:59,478
Speaker 2: me in advance, which you would do. Those are the

331
00:16:59,518 --> 00:17:02,558
Speaker 2: guys that are really valuable. Well, I Hobby Bias really

332
00:17:02,558 --> 00:17:05,478
Speaker 2: good at making it a justment or moving on defense

333
00:17:05,518 --> 00:17:09,278
Speaker 2: based on what he was seeing at the plate ersty

334
00:17:09,398 --> 00:17:12,238
Speaker 2: Darren Erstadt could do the same kind of thing. Jimmy Edmonds.

335
00:17:12,478 --> 00:17:15,238
Speaker 2: Jimmy Edmonds is outstanding. Jimmy from centerfield because he catch

336
00:17:15,278 --> 00:17:18,398
Speaker 2: her signs, which I still don't believe. But he insisted

337
00:17:18,438 --> 00:17:20,958
Speaker 2: in upon me that he could see those things, but

338
00:17:21,518 --> 00:17:24,558
Speaker 2: he paid attention. And that's not that long ago. I

339
00:17:24,598 --> 00:17:27,518
Speaker 2: had players that really did pay attention. But they're almost

340
00:17:27,518 --> 00:17:30,438
Speaker 2: we're almost teaching them to not pay attention. We're teaching

341
00:17:30,478 --> 00:17:33,038
Speaker 2: them to just look at the card. Play the dots.

342
00:17:33,078 --> 00:17:36,878
Speaker 2: I've heard that from front office personnel recently. Play the dots,

343
00:17:37,278 --> 00:17:39,158
Speaker 2: meaning that this is the stuff that we've given you,

344
00:17:39,198 --> 00:17:42,278
Speaker 2: this is the stuff that we analyze, and we've given you,

345
00:17:42,318 --> 00:17:43,918
Speaker 2: we put all this work into it. Now play the

346
00:17:43,918 --> 00:17:48,638
Speaker 2: dots because and again that's where analytics provides a safety

347
00:17:48,638 --> 00:17:50,758
Speaker 2: net for decision making because of a trong. It's okay

348
00:17:50,878 --> 00:17:54,238
Speaker 2: because eventually it's going to be right. Wow, that's that

349
00:17:54,438 --> 00:17:57,598
Speaker 2: is like okay, of course, that's that's true. Almost anything

350
00:17:57,598 --> 00:17:59,758
Speaker 2: you're going to try to do, it's gonna eventually be right.

351
00:18:00,238 --> 00:18:02,958
Speaker 2: But in the moment, if you can make the adjustment

352
00:18:02,998 --> 00:18:05,638
Speaker 2: in the moment based on what you're seeing, and it

353
00:18:05,718 --> 00:18:08,518
Speaker 2: is a game changer. In the moment, there's so much

354
00:18:08,598 --> 00:18:12,798
Speaker 2: momentum to be derived when things go well as opposed

355
00:18:12,838 --> 00:18:15,198
Speaker 2: to things don't go so well just because you played

356
00:18:15,198 --> 00:18:18,198
Speaker 2: the dots. Even though you thought something, you're seeing something differently,

357
00:18:18,358 --> 00:18:20,078
Speaker 2: and now you don't make the play that you could

358
00:18:20,078 --> 00:18:24,198
Speaker 2: have made like Penelic game changer, world changer, life changer.

359
00:18:24,198 --> 00:18:26,998
Speaker 2: Don zeenbwould have been managing for several more years. All

360
00:18:27,038 --> 00:18:30,838
Speaker 2: these things matter. And if you don't feel the freedom

361
00:18:31,078 --> 00:18:35,558
Speaker 2: to utilize all that you've learned and experienced, if you

362
00:18:35,558 --> 00:18:38,038
Speaker 2: don't have that freedom to do that and just become

363
00:18:38,598 --> 00:18:41,718
Speaker 2: kind of a robot to or slave to the numbers

364
00:18:41,798 --> 00:18:45,838
Speaker 2: and the dots, you're missing something. We're missing some athleticism,

365
00:18:45,878 --> 00:18:46,438
Speaker 2: and yes.

366
00:18:46,278 --> 00:18:47,758
Speaker 3: We are missing some greatness.

367
00:18:48,158 --> 00:18:50,998
Speaker 1: We're talking about style here on the Book of Joe

368
00:18:51,038 --> 00:18:54,518
Speaker 1: podcast and the epitome of style, the great Willie Mays.

369
00:18:54,758 --> 00:18:56,598
Speaker 1: When we come back, we're going to stay on our

370
00:18:56,638 --> 00:18:59,878
Speaker 1: theme and I know this is one of Joe's favorite topics,

371
00:19:00,518 --> 00:19:03,598
Speaker 1: dress codes. We'll talk to you about that right after this.

372
00:19:17,278 --> 00:19:19,558
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. We're talking

373
00:19:19,598 --> 00:19:23,238
Speaker 1: about style in baseball and this was really interesting. The

374
00:19:23,278 --> 00:19:27,038
Speaker 1: other day Alex Cora, the manager of the Boston Red Sox,

375
00:19:27,078 --> 00:19:30,598
Speaker 1: of course, happened to notice that his players were getting

376
00:19:30,638 --> 00:19:33,998
Speaker 1: a little too sloppy when it comes to their dress code.

377
00:19:35,238 --> 00:19:38,078
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of sweatpants on the road. And

378
00:19:38,438 --> 00:19:40,278
Speaker 1: Alex was a guy who came up in the Dodger

379
00:19:40,358 --> 00:19:44,958
Speaker 1: system and they had a very strict, professional looking dress code.

380
00:19:45,718 --> 00:19:48,198
Speaker 1: So Alex went to some of his veteran players, he

381
00:19:48,198 --> 00:19:51,678
Speaker 1: doesn't have many, but he's got a few, and basically said,

382
00:19:52,238 --> 00:19:54,278
Speaker 1: can we clean it up a little bit, And he

383
00:19:54,398 --> 00:19:58,078
Speaker 1: came up with not a Dodger style dress code, but

384
00:19:58,958 --> 00:20:01,958
Speaker 1: a new dress code. When the Red Sox now travel

385
00:20:02,118 --> 00:20:05,798
Speaker 1: on day games, getaway game to and from the ballpark,

386
00:20:06,238 --> 00:20:09,078
Speaker 1: he requires a sport coat. Doesn't mean you have to

387
00:20:09,118 --> 00:20:10,678
Speaker 1: have a collared shirt. You can wear a T shirt

388
00:20:10,758 --> 00:20:13,918
Speaker 1: underneath it, but listen, you're not wearing sweatpants with a

389
00:20:13,958 --> 00:20:17,158
Speaker 1: sport coat. So I like the idea Joe he went

390
00:20:17,198 --> 00:20:20,398
Speaker 1: to his veterans. Your equivalent, of course, is the lead Bulls.

391
00:20:20,438 --> 00:20:22,358
Speaker 1: You can read all about that in the Book of Joe.

392
00:20:22,558 --> 00:20:25,158
Speaker 1: But I like the fact that, hey, let's clean it

393
00:20:25,238 --> 00:20:29,158
Speaker 1: up a little bit. He wants his players to feel

394
00:20:29,358 --> 00:20:33,278
Speaker 1: and look like major leaguers. You say those two words

395
00:20:33,558 --> 00:20:38,038
Speaker 1: major league and there is a certain aspirational quality to

396
00:20:38,078 --> 00:20:41,198
Speaker 1: that something. I think there's a responsibility to live up to,

397
00:20:41,438 --> 00:20:43,798
Speaker 1: not just in how well you have to play the game,

398
00:20:44,518 --> 00:20:48,918
Speaker 1: but how well you represent yourself, your family, and your team.

399
00:20:49,358 --> 00:20:52,478
Speaker 1: And I'm all in favor of cleaning it up a

400
00:20:52,518 --> 00:20:52,918
Speaker 1: little bit.

401
00:20:53,278 --> 00:20:54,798
Speaker 3: Well, I haven't been around to see all that.

402
00:20:54,918 --> 00:20:57,358
Speaker 2: I mean, my biggest thing when I was in the

403
00:20:57,398 --> 00:20:59,478
Speaker 2: minor leagues and even when I began in the big leagues.

404
00:20:59,478 --> 00:21:01,278
Speaker 2: In the minor league's, for instance, we had dress codes

405
00:21:01,318 --> 00:21:05,878
Speaker 2: for bus rides, and I mean dirty buses. And I'd

406
00:21:05,918 --> 00:21:07,678
Speaker 2: come out with, like, you know, decent pair of jeans,

407
00:21:07,678 --> 00:21:09,878
Speaker 2: which they didn't have a whole lot of money to

408
00:21:09,878 --> 00:21:11,598
Speaker 2: buy new ones, and they'd be all messed up and

409
00:21:11,638 --> 00:21:13,838
Speaker 2: dirty whatever, and it goes all the way back to them.

410
00:21:13,878 --> 00:21:15,158
Speaker 2: And I had to wear a collared shirt, and I

411
00:21:15,238 --> 00:21:16,838
Speaker 2: wanted to know, why did my shirt have to have

412
00:21:16,918 --> 00:21:19,238
Speaker 2: a collar on it? And I've always thought that the

413
00:21:19,238 --> 00:21:21,558
Speaker 2: people making dress codes were some of the worst dress

414
00:21:21,558 --> 00:21:24,398
Speaker 2: people I've ever seen in my life. So why am

415
00:21:24,438 --> 00:21:26,278
Speaker 2: I listening? Why do I have to listen to these

416
00:21:26,278 --> 00:21:29,758
Speaker 2: people that lived and died on polyester? But however, I

417
00:21:29,798 --> 00:21:32,038
Speaker 2: do like polyester now way more than I did back then.

418
00:21:32,638 --> 00:21:34,678
Speaker 2: But the point was that I'm being told how to

419
00:21:34,758 --> 00:21:37,158
Speaker 2: dress by people that were really I thought poor dressers.

420
00:21:37,398 --> 00:21:39,198
Speaker 2: I got to the big leagues in what it was

421
00:21:39,238 --> 00:21:41,478
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four, right, and then all of a sudden,

422
00:21:41,478 --> 00:21:43,758
Speaker 2: you had a dress up to get on a plane ride.

423
00:21:44,238 --> 00:21:46,278
Speaker 2: And I didn't have money to buy nice stuff to

424
00:21:46,278 --> 00:21:48,438
Speaker 2: get on that. I mean, I'm just just transitioning up there.

425
00:21:48,478 --> 00:21:50,918
Speaker 2: And I got not one more penny to go from

426
00:21:50,918 --> 00:21:52,598
Speaker 2: my minor league job to my big league job. I

427
00:21:52,638 --> 00:21:54,718
Speaker 2: had the same salary, same thing, and I got two

428
00:21:55,278 --> 00:21:58,318
Speaker 2: homes to take care of, the one in Arizona and

429
00:21:58,358 --> 00:22:01,078
Speaker 2: the one where I was living in California. So you

430
00:22:01,118 --> 00:22:03,158
Speaker 2: get on the plane and you know, a lot of

431
00:22:03,158 --> 00:22:04,958
Speaker 2: the guys that had some doak jumped down there with

432
00:22:04,998 --> 00:22:07,318
Speaker 2: their boss suits and all this kind of stuff. And

433
00:22:07,358 --> 00:22:09,358
Speaker 2: then guys that didn't have the dough get on there

434
00:22:09,398 --> 00:22:11,598
Speaker 2: and they'd be made fun of sometimes. And I used

435
00:22:11,598 --> 00:22:14,838
Speaker 2: to really kind of piss me off, quite frankly, and

436
00:22:14,878 --> 00:22:16,598
Speaker 2: I didn't like it because I really thought it could

437
00:22:16,638 --> 00:22:20,678
Speaker 2: impact performance I did. That was my biggest concern, that

438
00:22:20,718 --> 00:22:25,038
Speaker 2: you're constantly cutting at somebody's confidence, even by attacking the

439
00:22:25,078 --> 00:22:27,678
Speaker 2: way they dress. Okay, you might say, well that then

440
00:22:27,718 --> 00:22:29,918
Speaker 2: they got to be tougher than that. They don't belong

441
00:22:29,958 --> 00:22:31,798
Speaker 2: in the big leagues. You hear all that kind of stuff.

442
00:22:31,838 --> 00:22:32,238
Speaker 3: I get it.

443
00:22:32,478 --> 00:22:34,438
Speaker 2: I get it, you do have to be tougher than that.

444
00:22:34,558 --> 00:22:37,358
Speaker 2: But I did not want that to be something that

445
00:22:37,518 --> 00:22:41,558
Speaker 2: interfered with the performance of young players based on the

446
00:22:41,558 --> 00:22:46,158
Speaker 2: fact that they were kind of verbally clothingly bullied by

447
00:22:46,158 --> 00:22:48,198
Speaker 2: a bunch of guys with a lot of money. So

448
00:22:48,318 --> 00:22:50,918
Speaker 2: I didn't like that either. Eventually, when I got a

449
00:22:50,998 --> 00:22:54,358
Speaker 2: job as a manager, I wanted to eradicate most of that.

450
00:22:55,158 --> 00:22:56,918
Speaker 2: For me, it was if you think you look hot,

451
00:22:56,958 --> 00:23:00,998
Speaker 2: you wear it. And what I found is that when

452
00:23:01,038 --> 00:23:04,318
Speaker 2: a player dresses according to his sensibility is what he

453
00:23:04,358 --> 00:23:07,198
Speaker 2: thinks he looks good and what he likes. You got

454
00:23:07,198 --> 00:23:09,078
Speaker 2: a confident guy walking on the airplane.

455
00:23:09,278 --> 00:23:09,718
Speaker 3: Now listen.

456
00:23:09,838 --> 00:23:12,358
Speaker 2: I also had something where you had if you wanted

457
00:23:12,358 --> 00:23:14,638
Speaker 2: to wear sandals, that's fine, but you had to have

458
00:23:14,918 --> 00:23:17,678
Speaker 2: your toenails polish to wear sandals as an example to

459
00:23:17,758 --> 00:23:20,838
Speaker 2: try to discourage that. But Jake Arietta challenge me on it.

460
00:23:20,878 --> 00:23:24,558
Speaker 2: He looked great. So all this stuff and furthermore, nobody

461
00:23:24,558 --> 00:23:27,518
Speaker 2: sees you. Nobody sees you. I'm sorry, but nobody does.

462
00:23:27,998 --> 00:23:30,638
Speaker 2: Out of the lobby, into the bus bust at the ballpark,

463
00:23:30,718 --> 00:23:34,118
Speaker 2: quickly into the ballpark game over back to the bus tarmac.

464
00:23:34,598 --> 00:23:37,238
Speaker 2: If you were like sitting in a commercial airport in

465
00:23:37,238 --> 00:23:39,718
Speaker 2: a terminal situation, different, a little bit different, But for

466
00:23:39,718 --> 00:23:42,158
Speaker 2: the most part, listen, I don't want I don't want

467
00:23:42,198 --> 00:23:45,078
Speaker 2: you to look like a creep either. And I always

468
00:23:45,118 --> 00:23:49,358
Speaker 2: expected among the lead bulls that if somebody really got

469
00:23:49,518 --> 00:23:52,198
Speaker 2: like creepingly out of haimd like they were just dressing

470
00:23:52,438 --> 00:23:55,518
Speaker 2: trash in a trashy kind of but yeah, somebody's going

471
00:23:55,598 --> 00:23:59,158
Speaker 2: to say something to them. But honestly, I think it's

472
00:23:59,238 --> 00:24:02,358
Speaker 2: a method of a self expression. I have no issue

473
00:24:02,398 --> 00:24:04,478
Speaker 2: with it. My biggest concern is that I runs hard

474
00:24:04,518 --> 00:24:06,278
Speaker 2: to first base more than what he looks like on

475
00:24:06,318 --> 00:24:08,918
Speaker 2: an airplane. There was a time that I thought you

476
00:24:08,998 --> 00:24:13,358
Speaker 2: could elicit discipline through methods of dress. That was part

477
00:24:13,398 --> 00:24:14,998
Speaker 2: of why it addressed a certain way on a bus.

478
00:24:15,078 --> 00:24:18,998
Speaker 2: That generation of leadership and men felt as though they

479
00:24:19,038 --> 00:24:22,238
Speaker 2: could impart discipline by making you dress a certain way

480
00:24:22,278 --> 00:24:25,478
Speaker 2: and looking at So I'm well for it. With youngsters, listen,

481
00:24:25,558 --> 00:24:28,318
Speaker 2: prochio school and schools in general, I think there should

482
00:24:28,318 --> 00:24:31,718
Speaker 2: be a dress code to discourage competition and the fact

483
00:24:31,758 --> 00:24:33,838
Speaker 2: that there's a situation there that you could be bullied

484
00:24:33,838 --> 00:24:35,958
Speaker 2: by the way you're dressing. There's a time and place

485
00:24:35,958 --> 00:24:39,718
Speaker 2: for that, absolutely, but overall I'm just not into it.

486
00:24:40,158 --> 00:24:43,118
Speaker 2: I think it's superficial. I think that when you start

487
00:24:43,158 --> 00:24:45,118
Speaker 2: getting to that point, you're looking for the wrong reasons

488
00:24:45,158 --> 00:24:47,558
Speaker 2: why the team's not doing well, et cetera, et cetera.

489
00:24:47,798 --> 00:24:50,638
Speaker 2: So I would empower my lead bulls if if there's

490
00:24:50,638 --> 00:24:53,158
Speaker 2: something they really didn't like, like kind of like Alex did,

491
00:24:53,238 --> 00:24:55,918
Speaker 2: just say something to the player if you have to.

492
00:24:55,998 --> 00:24:59,518
Speaker 2: But overall, again I wouldn't do that quite frankly, I

493
00:24:59,558 --> 00:25:03,638
Speaker 2: wouldn't do that. I prefer that the guys would express

494
00:25:03,678 --> 00:25:05,518
Speaker 2: themsel in a way. And that's why I like my

495
00:25:05,598 --> 00:25:07,998
Speaker 2: theme road trips. People you know, some love them, some

496
00:25:08,118 --> 00:25:09,998
Speaker 2: made fun of them, most of them love them. And

497
00:25:10,038 --> 00:25:12,278
Speaker 2: I say, I think another thing about Theme road Trips

498
00:25:12,278 --> 00:25:14,718
Speaker 2: that I found out guys would come up to me

499
00:25:14,878 --> 00:25:17,438
Speaker 2: like kind of like more of the shy, introverted kind

500
00:25:17,438 --> 00:25:20,758
Speaker 2: of whether it's a staff member or a player, would say, hey,

501
00:25:20,758 --> 00:25:23,718
Speaker 2: thanks for that. Man. I did something I wouldn't normally do.

502
00:25:23,798 --> 00:25:26,398
Speaker 2: I would dress in a manner that I wouldn't normally do,

503
00:25:26,438 --> 00:25:28,598
Speaker 2: and I felt uncomfortable until I did it, and everybody

504
00:25:28,598 --> 00:25:30,278
Speaker 2: else was doing it, and all of a sudden I

505
00:25:30,278 --> 00:25:32,998
Speaker 2: felt kind of good about myself because I did take

506
00:25:33,038 --> 00:25:35,198
Speaker 2: a chance, I did step outside the box. I did

507
00:25:35,198 --> 00:25:38,438
Speaker 2: do something differently that I normally wouldn't have done. So

508
00:25:38,838 --> 00:25:41,598
Speaker 2: there's all different ways to look at this. It's real

509
00:25:41,718 --> 00:25:46,038
Speaker 2: easy to revert back to the dress code based on

510
00:25:46,078 --> 00:25:47,798
Speaker 2: where we come from and what we think is right.

511
00:25:47,838 --> 00:25:49,118
Speaker 3: And I get it. I get it.

512
00:25:49,478 --> 00:25:52,118
Speaker 2: But to just all of a sudden think you're going

513
00:25:52,158 --> 00:25:54,318
Speaker 2: to get more wins out of it, I'm not into it.

514
00:25:54,918 --> 00:25:58,358
Speaker 1: Yeah, I respect your opinion on that, Joe, there's no question,

515
00:25:58,438 --> 00:26:02,198
Speaker 1: and I think most managers today probably think the same way.

516
00:26:02,358 --> 00:26:05,518
Speaker 1: But in Alex's case, here where he really said, I

517
00:26:05,518 --> 00:26:07,918
Speaker 1: think we're getting too sloppy. I mean, he didn't set

518
00:26:07,918 --> 00:26:10,398
Speaker 1: out to do this. This is something that's done in

519
00:26:10,598 --> 00:26:14,118
Speaker 1: reaction to the direction the team was going in, right,

520
00:26:14,438 --> 00:26:18,438
Speaker 1: And I don't think you're trying to equate wearing a

521
00:26:18,478 --> 00:26:21,118
Speaker 1: suit with winning more games. I don't think it's about that.

522
00:26:21,878 --> 00:26:26,158
Speaker 1: I think it's simply about disappointed pride and again, a

523
00:26:26,238 --> 00:26:29,078
Speaker 1: major league you should aim higher. And he's not asking

524
00:26:29,118 --> 00:26:32,238
Speaker 1: guys to wear three piece suits. One sport coat is

525
00:26:32,278 --> 00:26:34,038
Speaker 1: not asking a lot, and I get it. You know,

526
00:26:34,078 --> 00:26:37,318
Speaker 1: the dress code is basically it comes from the days

527
00:26:37,358 --> 00:26:40,878
Speaker 1: when all teams did fly commercial, right and you were

528
00:26:41,038 --> 00:26:44,198
Speaker 1: out about in the public, And I get it. They're

529
00:26:44,198 --> 00:26:46,718
Speaker 1: not doing that now. So yes, these guys go straight

530
00:26:46,758 --> 00:26:50,678
Speaker 1: to the tarmac, straight to the chartered plane, straight to

531
00:26:50,718 --> 00:26:53,958
Speaker 1: the hotel. The public generally is not going to see

532
00:26:53,958 --> 00:26:55,918
Speaker 1: them other than when they're getting off the bus into

533
00:26:55,958 --> 00:26:59,238
Speaker 1: the hotel pretty much. But I think it's a pride thing, Joe.

534
00:26:59,598 --> 00:27:01,758
Speaker 1: I think it's not asking guys too much to put

535
00:27:01,798 --> 00:27:05,038
Speaker 1: on a sport coat. And I think again, if he

536
00:27:05,158 --> 00:27:08,078
Speaker 1: saw something where it was getting too sloppy and you're

537
00:27:08,118 --> 00:27:11,998
Speaker 1: still representing the Boston Red Sox whether people see you

538
00:27:12,118 --> 00:27:15,358
Speaker 1: or not. You know, I think we've gotten so lax

539
00:27:15,478 --> 00:27:19,478
Speaker 1: in general, not just with dress codes, with discipline in general.

540
00:27:20,318 --> 00:27:23,678
Speaker 1: I think this is not a very difficult guardrail to

541
00:27:23,678 --> 00:27:27,638
Speaker 1: put up to dress. As Alex said like a big leaguer,

542
00:27:27,798 --> 00:27:30,678
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, we all know since COVID, right, you know,

543
00:27:31,478 --> 00:27:34,518
Speaker 1: every the world has gotten so much more casual, and

544
00:27:34,598 --> 00:27:36,918
Speaker 1: it continues to do so. I mean we see people

545
00:27:36,918 --> 00:27:39,558
Speaker 1: on TV all the time now, Joe wearing a T shirt.

546
00:27:40,118 --> 00:27:42,038
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, make a little bit of an effort.

547
00:27:42,078 --> 00:27:44,518
Speaker 1: It's all we're asking here. Nobody's asking you to dress

548
00:27:44,558 --> 00:27:48,598
Speaker 1: to the nines your Sunday best. But and sports writers

549
00:27:48,638 --> 00:27:52,518
Speaker 1: going to the ballpark wearing a T shirt, No, come on, I.

550
00:27:52,438 --> 00:27:53,678
Speaker 3: Mean they are guilty.

551
00:27:54,758 --> 00:27:57,598
Speaker 1: I mean it's you got to have more pride. You've

552
00:27:57,598 --> 00:28:01,358
Speaker 1: got to represent your employer yourself with a little bit

553
00:28:01,398 --> 00:28:03,798
Speaker 1: of effort and pride. That's what I'm talking about. And

554
00:28:04,238 --> 00:28:07,718
Speaker 1: discipline is something that you know, I'm all for people

555
00:28:07,798 --> 00:28:11,798
Speaker 1: expressing themselves, but at any costs. You know, there's a

556
00:28:11,838 --> 00:28:14,678
Speaker 1: time and a place. And to me, I think he's

557
00:28:14,718 --> 00:28:17,158
Speaker 1: well within his rights. He does have theme road trips.

558
00:28:17,158 --> 00:28:18,958
Speaker 1: He's got a red, white and Blue Fourth at July

559
00:28:19,198 --> 00:28:21,958
Speaker 1: trip coming up, he's got something to Miami. This is

560
00:28:21,998 --> 00:28:24,398
Speaker 1: not some draconian system he's coming up with here. He's

561
00:28:24,438 --> 00:28:26,878
Speaker 1: basically saying, guys, let's just clean it up a little bit.

562
00:28:27,278 --> 00:28:28,478
Speaker 1: And I have no problem with that.

563
00:28:28,998 --> 00:28:31,998
Speaker 2: And here's my response to that. Listen, I'm not just

564
00:28:32,198 --> 00:28:35,078
Speaker 2: disagreeing with you. I dig on all that. But if

565
00:28:35,118 --> 00:28:37,798
Speaker 2: you want to create discipline, let's run hard for a space,

566
00:28:38,158 --> 00:28:41,518
Speaker 2: Let's make better turns, let's not miss the cutoff.

567
00:28:41,678 --> 00:28:43,638
Speaker 1: Can't you do it both? This is not an either

568
00:28:43,798 --> 00:28:44,598
Speaker 1: or proposition.

569
00:28:44,678 --> 00:28:46,758
Speaker 2: I'm just saying if they did that, if they had

570
00:28:46,798 --> 00:28:48,838
Speaker 2: been doing that and they'd been more successful, I'm saying

571
00:28:48,838 --> 00:28:49,918
Speaker 2: this would not even be an issue.

572
00:28:49,958 --> 00:28:50,798
Speaker 3: That's my point.

573
00:28:50,998 --> 00:28:53,478
Speaker 2: See, sometimes things like this become an issue because other

574
00:28:53,518 --> 00:28:56,318
Speaker 2: things aren't working, and all of a sudden you look

575
00:28:56,318 --> 00:28:58,238
Speaker 2: in different areas to find your results.

576
00:28:58,598 --> 00:29:00,518
Speaker 1: Well, I think Joe, I think what he's got here

577
00:29:00,638 --> 00:29:02,838
Speaker 1: is he doesn't have the lead bulls and a lot

578
00:29:02,878 --> 00:29:05,278
Speaker 1: of times that you had. He's got a younger team

579
00:29:05,638 --> 00:29:07,998
Speaker 1: and he's waiting for leaders to emerge.

580
00:29:07,998 --> 00:29:08,118
Speaker 3: Now.

581
00:29:08,118 --> 00:29:11,878
Speaker 1: He's got Kenley Jansen, who's a closer. He's got Rob Refsnyder,

582
00:29:11,918 --> 00:29:15,838
Speaker 1: who's not really an everyday player, doesn't have those lead

583
00:29:15,918 --> 00:29:18,358
Speaker 1: balls that you'd love to just kind of run the

584
00:29:18,358 --> 00:29:20,798
Speaker 1: team without the manager to have having to step in.

585
00:29:21,158 --> 00:29:23,478
Speaker 1: So I think in this case he needs to step

586
00:29:23,518 --> 00:29:24,398
Speaker 1: in again.

587
00:29:24,558 --> 00:29:25,758
Speaker 3: I'm okay with all that.

588
00:29:25,798 --> 00:29:28,598
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not saying i'm not, But my point is,

589
00:29:28,718 --> 00:29:32,598
Speaker 2: I want to create my internal discipline among my team

590
00:29:32,918 --> 00:29:35,318
Speaker 2: by how they run the like they have that one

591
00:29:35,398 --> 00:29:37,118
Speaker 2: kid there that plays really hard to lead off here

592
00:29:37,158 --> 00:29:37,598
Speaker 2: or what's.

593
00:29:37,398 --> 00:29:39,758
Speaker 1: His name, Jaron Duran, perfect.

594
00:29:39,398 --> 00:29:40,238
Speaker 3: Perfect example.

595
00:29:40,318 --> 00:29:42,638
Speaker 2: Now that's the guy I want to point and say,

596
00:29:42,678 --> 00:29:44,838
Speaker 2: I want you all the play and I would embarrass

597
00:29:44,838 --> 00:29:47,158
Speaker 2: the crap out of him. But that's what we're looking for,

598
00:29:47,598 --> 00:29:49,398
Speaker 2: that's what that's what this team needs to be built

599
00:29:49,438 --> 00:29:53,598
Speaker 2: off of. And if all this other stuff becomes ancillary because.

600
00:29:53,278 --> 00:29:54,598
Speaker 3: Of that, wonderful.

601
00:29:54,998 --> 00:29:59,398
Speaker 2: But I don't like to look in areas to find

602
00:29:59,438 --> 00:30:03,118
Speaker 2: what I need that are just kind of like reactionary

603
00:30:03,198 --> 00:30:07,078
Speaker 2: based on lack of results in no sense now and listen,

604
00:30:07,118 --> 00:30:08,878
Speaker 2: I love it. I think Alex does a wonderful job.

605
00:30:08,918 --> 00:30:09,478
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

606
00:30:09,758 --> 00:30:12,518
Speaker 2: My point is, I'm just philosophically. This is where I

607
00:30:12,558 --> 00:30:15,398
Speaker 2: come from, because this is what I've seen. I've seen

608
00:30:15,438 --> 00:30:19,398
Speaker 2: the front offices and managers react to not winning by

609
00:30:19,438 --> 00:30:22,558
Speaker 2: looking for different reasons for them not reading other than

610
00:30:22,598 --> 00:30:24,838
Speaker 2: the fact that they're not playing good baseball. And so

611
00:30:24,878 --> 00:30:29,398
Speaker 2: they attempt to elicit discipline and structure in other ways. Fine,

612
00:30:29,478 --> 00:30:31,518
Speaker 2: I mean that goes back to Vince Lombardi, that goes

613
00:30:31,518 --> 00:30:34,118
Speaker 2: back to my parochial school days, and I did, and

614
00:30:34,198 --> 00:30:37,398
Speaker 2: I became disciplined and structured through those moments, whether it

615
00:30:37,438 --> 00:30:41,798
Speaker 2: was nuns, my coaches, how hard the practices were, the

616
00:30:42,158 --> 00:30:44,958
Speaker 2: punishments if we didn't win, how much I had to run.

617
00:30:45,278 --> 00:30:47,318
Speaker 2: All those things were part of the day back in

618
00:30:47,358 --> 00:30:50,278
Speaker 2: the day, and I still get it. But I want

619
00:30:50,318 --> 00:30:51,678
Speaker 2: to stay. I guess what I'm saying is I want

620
00:30:51,678 --> 00:30:53,918
Speaker 2: to stay in advance of that. I want to stay

621
00:30:53,918 --> 00:30:58,598
Speaker 2: in advance of shifting course if I possibly can. Because

622
00:30:58,638 --> 00:31:01,278
Speaker 2: when you lay these things down in the spring training,

623
00:31:01,718 --> 00:31:04,558
Speaker 2: the biggest thing is to not let them wagh during

624
00:31:04,638 --> 00:31:07,358
Speaker 2: the course of the year. This is where not only

625
00:31:07,358 --> 00:31:10,918
Speaker 2: the manager, but a really firm coaching staff comes into play.

626
00:31:11,998 --> 00:31:14,198
Speaker 2: The coaching staff really needs to be an extension of

627
00:31:14,238 --> 00:31:16,918
Speaker 2: the manager. When you call bs on guys when they're

628
00:31:16,958 --> 00:31:19,558
Speaker 2: not running hard, if they don't make a good turn,

629
00:31:19,798 --> 00:31:22,118
Speaker 2: if they do miss a cutoff, man, it needs to

630
00:31:22,158 --> 00:31:24,398
Speaker 2: be addressed and it doesn't need to be addressed by

631
00:31:24,438 --> 00:31:26,558
Speaker 2: the manager all the time. That is not what that

632
00:31:26,678 --> 00:31:29,118
Speaker 2: voice is there for. That's why you have coaches in

633
00:31:29,158 --> 00:31:32,758
Speaker 2: different positions. Coaches I need to be empowered to do

634
00:31:32,798 --> 00:31:35,278
Speaker 2: their job. They need to do their job and stay

635
00:31:35,318 --> 00:31:37,398
Speaker 2: on top of all this stuff. So that's all I'm

636
00:31:37,438 --> 00:31:40,198
Speaker 2: saying is that I get it. I'm getting not arguing.

637
00:31:40,398 --> 00:31:42,958
Speaker 2: I get it, But from my perspective, the reason why

638
00:31:42,998 --> 00:31:44,718
Speaker 2: I did what I did the way I did it

639
00:31:44,798 --> 00:31:47,078
Speaker 2: was because I wanted to stay in advance of all

640
00:31:47,158 --> 00:31:50,998
Speaker 2: of this other interpretations of why things aren't going well,

641
00:31:51,478 --> 00:31:54,238
Speaker 2: and I needed a strong coaching staff with a bunch

642
00:31:54,238 --> 00:31:57,118
Speaker 2: of fearless guys that stayed on top of their craft.

643
00:31:57,398 --> 00:31:59,638
Speaker 2: We're not afraid of a tough conversation, and I think

644
00:31:59,678 --> 00:32:02,158
Speaker 2: when you do that, you could avoid some of these moments.

645
00:32:02,718 --> 00:32:05,158
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting, he said. One of the benefits of

646
00:32:05,198 --> 00:32:07,998
Speaker 1: this is he's seen that old tradition, if you will,

647
00:32:08,038 --> 00:32:10,918
Speaker 1: were some of the older players used to buy suits

648
00:32:10,958 --> 00:32:13,678
Speaker 1: for the younger guys because Joe, you mentioned the disparity

649
00:32:13,878 --> 00:32:17,078
Speaker 1: right and how you dress based on what your salary was,

650
00:32:17,278 --> 00:32:19,438
Speaker 1: and some of the younger, older guys on the Red

651
00:32:19,438 --> 00:32:22,958
Speaker 1: Sox now picking up a sport jacket for a younger guy.

652
00:32:23,438 --> 00:32:25,198
Speaker 1: I love that sort of camaraderie.

653
00:32:25,478 --> 00:32:27,878
Speaker 2: Bo Jackson was great. If that Bo would pick up

654
00:32:27,958 --> 00:32:31,238
Speaker 2: I was with Bo for that first year. He would

655
00:32:31,238 --> 00:32:32,718
Speaker 2: always pick up your right. There was a lot of

656
00:32:32,798 --> 00:32:33,838
Speaker 2: veteran guys.

657
00:32:33,518 --> 00:32:34,438
Speaker 3: That would do that. Chili.

658
00:32:34,598 --> 00:32:37,238
Speaker 2: All these dudes, if they saw somebody in need, they

659
00:32:37,318 --> 00:32:39,998
Speaker 2: take him out, take them under their wing literally and

660
00:32:41,038 --> 00:32:44,358
Speaker 2: again professionalize them. This is how we dressed her. These

661
00:32:44,398 --> 00:32:46,638
Speaker 2: were the rules. They are the rules. There was always

662
00:32:46,638 --> 00:32:48,918
Speaker 2: that sport code, and a lot of guys are sport

663
00:32:48,998 --> 00:32:51,838
Speaker 2: code tie they look hot. But I always wondered who

664
00:32:51,838 --> 00:32:54,678
Speaker 2: you're dressing up for centerfielder? Was dressing up for the

665
00:32:54,758 --> 00:32:57,638
Speaker 2: short stop? Shortstop? Dressing up for the relief pitchers, because

666
00:32:57,678 --> 00:33:01,438
Speaker 2: nobody ever saw you, And that was that's just my sensibilities.

667
00:33:01,558 --> 00:33:03,518
Speaker 2: If it made you feel better, please go ahead and

668
00:33:03,518 --> 00:33:05,718
Speaker 2: do it. And you can still do it. And the

669
00:33:05,758 --> 00:33:08,638
Speaker 2: way I try to do things is if you think

670
00:33:08,638 --> 00:33:10,358
Speaker 2: you look hot, weard, go ahead and wear a suit,

671
00:33:10,438 --> 00:33:11,238
Speaker 2: go ahead and wear a.

672
00:33:11,198 --> 00:33:13,238
Speaker 3: Type that makes you feel good. Go ahead and do it.

673
00:33:13,598 --> 00:33:15,918
Speaker 2: Or wear a nice pair of jeans and a cool

674
00:33:15,998 --> 00:33:18,798
Speaker 2: shirt and sit on the airplane if you really comfortable,

675
00:33:18,838 --> 00:33:22,838
Speaker 2: because you prefer that meta because it's you feel confident

676
00:33:22,838 --> 00:33:25,198
Speaker 2: being dressed that way. You don't have to stuff your

677
00:33:25,238 --> 00:33:26,878
Speaker 2: suitcase with stuff. What do we have to bring on

678
00:33:26,918 --> 00:33:29,438
Speaker 2: the road trip? All these things to me, because that

679
00:33:29,518 --> 00:33:31,558
Speaker 2: back then we used to have really long road trips.

680
00:33:31,558 --> 00:33:34,958
Speaker 2: Sometimes you've got two suitcases. Sometimes going on the road

681
00:33:35,198 --> 00:33:38,278
Speaker 2: not necessary. Frank Coward had it best. Frank whatever he

682
00:33:38,398 --> 00:33:41,758
Speaker 2: took and we're on that airplane the first round of

683
00:33:41,798 --> 00:33:44,038
Speaker 2: that trip. He wore every day and every day to

684
00:33:44,078 --> 00:33:46,358
Speaker 2: the ballpark and had the club He's clean and stuff

685
00:33:46,478 --> 00:33:50,318
Speaker 2: constantly Cecil Fielder used to have. He'd bring some great

686
00:33:50,398 --> 00:33:53,718
Speaker 2: stuff and he'd always start shipping them home while we

687
00:33:53,758 --> 00:33:57,198
Speaker 2: were on the road. He'd like a beautiful lime green

688
00:33:57,598 --> 00:34:00,718
Speaker 2: electric lime green suit he'd wear at one time, next day,

689
00:34:00,758 --> 00:34:03,238
Speaker 2: put in a box, ship it back to home. There's

690
00:34:03,238 --> 00:34:05,438
Speaker 2: different ways getting it, but there's all these things that

691
00:34:05,518 --> 00:34:07,838
Speaker 2: could tend with that. I was just trying to simplify

692
00:34:07,838 --> 00:34:09,278
Speaker 2: and make it easier for everybody too.

693
00:34:09,638 --> 00:34:12,358
Speaker 1: You just reminded me of Danny Tartible. He used to

694
00:34:12,398 --> 00:34:14,438
Speaker 1: be proud of the fact that he would play through

695
00:34:14,438 --> 00:34:17,078
Speaker 1: a whole season, one hundred and sixty two games and

696
00:34:17,158 --> 00:34:20,438
Speaker 1: never wear the same outfit a second time. Now, that's

697
00:34:20,438 --> 00:34:21,358
Speaker 1: a deep closet.

698
00:34:22,198 --> 00:34:25,278
Speaker 2: That's awesome. I love all that. I'm not saying I

699
00:34:25,278 --> 00:34:25,758
Speaker 2: don't love it.

700
00:34:25,798 --> 00:34:27,038
Speaker 3: I love it all. It's all fun.

701
00:34:27,038 --> 00:34:31,398
Speaker 2: But I philosophically, I just I was just it was

702
00:34:31,438 --> 00:34:33,878
Speaker 2: burned into me early on, and I didn't like it,

703
00:34:33,918 --> 00:34:35,558
Speaker 2: and so I had to do it.

704
00:34:35,558 --> 00:34:36,158
Speaker 3: I thought was right.

705
00:34:36,198 --> 00:34:37,998
Speaker 2: When I had the opportunity to hold my own baby.

706
00:34:38,078 --> 00:34:38,998
Speaker 3: That's what it comes down to.

707
00:34:39,558 --> 00:34:41,598
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I get it. And for the guy who

708
00:34:41,678 --> 00:34:45,398
Speaker 1: is dressing up and looks sharp when nobody sees him,

709
00:34:45,478 --> 00:34:48,958
Speaker 1: that's even more impressive because he's not doing it for effect.

710
00:34:49,918 --> 00:34:53,278
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, Joe, to my point originally here, I

711
00:34:53,318 --> 00:34:57,798
Speaker 1: think we have gone too far with casualness morphing into sloppiness.

712
00:34:57,918 --> 00:35:01,558
Speaker 1: That's my point here. Listen, I know you look around

713
00:35:01,558 --> 00:35:04,518
Speaker 1: the world today. I get it. When the G seven

714
00:35:05,478 --> 00:35:09,118
Speaker 1: summit was held, was it two years ago? Every one

715
00:35:09,358 --> 00:35:12,558
Speaker 1: of the leaders of the G seven was wearing a

716
00:35:12,678 --> 00:35:16,358
Speaker 1: jacket without a tie in the Senate. Now you need

717
00:35:16,398 --> 00:35:18,558
Speaker 1: a tie in the chamber. You don't need it anywhere else.

718
00:35:19,158 --> 00:35:24,038
Speaker 1: There's an organization called the Men's Dress Furnishings Association that

719
00:35:24,118 --> 00:35:27,558
Speaker 1: represents the tie makers of America. It went out of

720
00:35:27,598 --> 00:35:31,278
Speaker 1: business in two thousand and six. So the neck tie

721
00:35:31,518 --> 00:35:35,438
Speaker 1: is kind of like commercial real estate and working in

722
00:35:35,478 --> 00:35:39,518
Speaker 1: an office five times a week. COVID basically killed it, right,

723
00:35:40,038 --> 00:35:44,638
Speaker 1: I get it, But you know we're not under COVID restrictions. People,

724
00:35:45,158 --> 00:35:47,718
Speaker 1: you know, wearing your sweats to the ball park as

725
00:35:47,718 --> 00:35:49,878
Speaker 1: a journalist is you know, it's not going to cut it.

726
00:35:49,878 --> 00:35:52,558
Speaker 1: It's fine for Zoom, but people have taken the the

727
00:35:52,638 --> 00:35:55,758
Speaker 1: you know, the Zoom protocols and now applying it to

728
00:35:55,878 --> 00:35:58,318
Speaker 1: being out and about in the world. I'm just saying,

729
00:35:58,878 --> 00:36:00,998
Speaker 1: make a little bit of an effort. I get your point.

730
00:36:01,078 --> 00:36:04,318
Speaker 1: Joe wear whatever makes you hot. It doesn't influence the

731
00:36:04,358 --> 00:36:08,318
Speaker 1: outcome of things. To me, it's it's more about pride

732
00:36:08,398 --> 00:36:11,718
Speaker 1: and representation. And you know you always try to do

733
00:36:11,798 --> 00:36:13,478
Speaker 1: your best. Why not try to look your best?

734
00:36:13,598 --> 00:36:15,958
Speaker 2: Get the team Blazer. I had the brazier with the

735
00:36:16,038 --> 00:36:20,958
Speaker 2: rais the brazier U B R A S E R brazier.

736
00:36:21,678 --> 00:36:25,278
Speaker 2: Before the game, Rafael Soriano was the lead bull and

737
00:36:25,318 --> 00:36:27,478
Speaker 2: the bullpen. All the bullpen guys walked out of the

738
00:36:27,558 --> 00:36:31,078
Speaker 2: dugout down to the right field bullpen at Tropicana, all

739
00:36:31,318 --> 00:36:35,118
Speaker 2: wearing their brazier. One of the coolest looks I've ever

740
00:36:35,158 --> 00:36:36,038
Speaker 2: seen in my life.

741
00:36:36,638 --> 00:36:39,918
Speaker 1: That is so cool. By the way, one bit of

742
00:36:39,918 --> 00:36:42,678
Speaker 1: baseball I'll talk about here in terms of the game.

743
00:36:42,758 --> 00:36:45,318
Speaker 1: The Red Sox, by the way, had an unbelievable comeback

744
00:36:45,958 --> 00:36:49,878
Speaker 1: against Toronto to begin this week. They were downting four

745
00:36:49,998 --> 00:36:52,518
Speaker 1: runs with five outs to go, mind up winning the

746
00:36:52,558 --> 00:36:55,438
Speaker 1: game real quick. Jawe. I want your take on the

747
00:36:55,438 --> 00:36:58,798
Speaker 1: Toronto Blue Jays because now we are this week, we

748
00:36:58,878 --> 00:37:02,558
Speaker 1: will hit the halfway point of the season and it's

749
00:37:02,638 --> 00:37:04,518
Speaker 1: make or break time in terms of whether you're in

750
00:37:04,638 --> 00:37:06,878
Speaker 1: or out in terms of the trade deadline coming up.

751
00:37:07,198 --> 00:37:10,518
Speaker 1: The Toronto Blue Jays are twenty seventh in the major

752
00:37:10,598 --> 00:37:14,238
Speaker 1: leagues and runs scored. They're twenty fifth and slugging twenty

753
00:37:14,358 --> 00:37:18,278
Speaker 1: sixth in home runs. Baseball Reference gives them a one

754
00:37:18,318 --> 00:37:22,758
Speaker 1: point three percent chance of making the postseason. I never

755
00:37:22,878 --> 00:37:25,958
Speaker 1: liked this team. I thought they were overrated offensively, and

756
00:37:25,998 --> 00:37:29,038
Speaker 1: it certainly is turning out to be that way. I

757
00:37:29,038 --> 00:37:30,958
Speaker 1: don't see it happening for them, Joe, to be honest

758
00:37:30,998 --> 00:37:33,838
Speaker 1: with you, the American League East is really really good.

759
00:37:33,918 --> 00:37:36,638
Speaker 1: We know that they've got a steep climb to make

760
00:37:36,678 --> 00:37:39,958
Speaker 1: with an offense that frankly is just not good, and

761
00:37:39,998 --> 00:37:42,558
Speaker 1: you can say they're underachieving. It'll turn around. I don't

762
00:37:42,558 --> 00:37:44,838
Speaker 1: see it happening. I think this is their level. What

763
00:37:44,878 --> 00:37:46,998
Speaker 1: do you see with Toronto going forward?

764
00:37:47,318 --> 00:37:49,918
Speaker 2: I used to like the way they played. I'm in

765
00:37:49,798 --> 00:37:51,918
Speaker 2: agreement with you. I've been watching for the last couple

766
00:37:51,958 --> 00:37:54,118
Speaker 2: of years. They have some nice names, A lot of

767
00:37:54,158 --> 00:37:57,398
Speaker 2: young guys, a lot of pedigree involvement, and I think

768
00:37:57,438 --> 00:38:00,558
Speaker 2: some of it was the kind of hype was built

769
00:38:00,558 --> 00:38:04,318
Speaker 2: into the names. Nice players I'm listening. I'm not grudging

770
00:38:04,318 --> 00:38:06,518
Speaker 2: any of those guys, but I never really liked their

771
00:38:06,558 --> 00:38:09,158
Speaker 2: method of play. There wasn't for me a blue Jay

772
00:38:09,238 --> 00:38:11,398
Speaker 2: style other than trying to pound the ball, which they're

773
00:38:11,438 --> 00:38:13,158
Speaker 2: not doing. And then furthermore, if you're not hitting home

774
00:38:13,238 --> 00:38:15,878
Speaker 2: runs in that ballpark. I know they did some rentals there,

775
00:38:15,918 --> 00:38:19,038
Speaker 2: but wow, that was that was an absolute launching pad.

776
00:38:18,878 --> 00:38:20,118
Speaker 3: Up there for a long time.

777
00:38:20,758 --> 00:38:22,878
Speaker 2: Just touch the ball down the left field line or

778
00:38:22,918 --> 00:38:25,078
Speaker 2: the right file on that thing's out of there. So

779
00:38:25,158 --> 00:38:26,518
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on with that, and know

780
00:38:26,518 --> 00:38:29,558
Speaker 2: if the roof's been open more often or not. But overall,

781
00:38:29,598 --> 00:38:33,158
Speaker 2: look at Springers numbers this year really not Springer like,

782
00:38:33,238 --> 00:38:35,118
Speaker 2: and I know he's been through some things in the

783
00:38:35,118 --> 00:38:37,718
Speaker 2: past couple of years, but they're lacking that thing. They

784
00:38:37,758 --> 00:38:40,118
Speaker 2: don't have that thing going on where they show up

785
00:38:40,118 --> 00:38:42,158
Speaker 2: and they expect to win. It's just it's just not

786
00:38:42,238 --> 00:38:44,878
Speaker 2: obvious or present. I know Bo's been hurt a little

787
00:38:44,918 --> 00:38:47,958
Speaker 2: bit and I like Boba shit, but I would move

788
00:38:47,998 --> 00:38:49,318
Speaker 2: it around a little bit. I'd put him in the

789
00:38:49,318 --> 00:38:52,398
Speaker 2: outfield that get a real standout shortstop on that team.

790
00:38:52,438 --> 00:38:54,558
Speaker 2: I would do that, somebody that really can catch the

791
00:38:54,598 --> 00:38:56,998
Speaker 2: ball and shot up the middle. I would really focus

792
00:38:57,038 --> 00:38:58,678
Speaker 2: on their defense. I know you got to hit there

793
00:38:58,678 --> 00:39:01,118
Speaker 2: a little bit, but I would really look at their defense.

794
00:39:01,358 --> 00:39:03,438
Speaker 2: You know, they lost Chapman from last year. I don't

795
00:39:03,518 --> 00:39:05,398
Speaker 2: I don't want to the words sloppiness, but there's there's

796
00:39:05,438 --> 00:39:09,278
Speaker 2: a there's not a tightness about the way they play,

797
00:39:09,478 --> 00:39:11,318
Speaker 2: and that's that's what bothers me when I watch them.

798
00:39:11,318 --> 00:39:14,638
Speaker 2: They got some nice names, nice young guys. But I

799
00:39:14,638 --> 00:39:16,598
Speaker 2: would move it around a little bit. I would just

800
00:39:16,638 --> 00:39:19,718
Speaker 2: take advantage of the Shutt's bat, Lad's bat. Fill that

801
00:39:19,758 --> 00:39:22,838
Speaker 2: thing in with some athletes, uh turned you know, don't

802
00:39:22,998 --> 00:39:25,198
Speaker 2: just worry about banging all the time, even though you're gonna,

803
00:39:25,558 --> 00:39:28,678
Speaker 2: but really get more athletic. I know Kevin's in center field,

804
00:39:28,718 --> 00:39:31,118
Speaker 2: I get all that stuff. But I would focus on

805
00:39:31,158 --> 00:39:34,678
Speaker 2: athleticism defense and believe that the ball is gonna start

806
00:39:34,678 --> 00:39:36,878
Speaker 2: flying out of the ballpark as these guys get more

807
00:39:36,918 --> 00:39:40,038
Speaker 2: confident and feel better about themselves pitching wise. I mean,

808
00:39:40,078 --> 00:39:41,798
Speaker 2: I bas said I saw him last night. He still

809
00:39:41,958 --> 00:39:44,118
Speaker 2: He's one of my favorites. I've liked him for years.

810
00:39:44,318 --> 00:39:46,518
Speaker 2: The guy that Manoa Minoa is the guy that really

811
00:39:47,038 --> 00:39:49,958
Speaker 2: has disappeared. I thought this guy was gonna be good

812
00:39:49,958 --> 00:39:53,038
Speaker 2: for years. I swear I saw him, you know when

813
00:39:53,038 --> 00:39:54,998
Speaker 2: he first came up. I damn this did they got

814
00:39:55,038 --> 00:39:59,038
Speaker 2: their locked here? This guy is nasty, great attitude, mound demeanor,

815
00:39:59,118 --> 00:40:02,198
Speaker 2: all that stuff. And then he goes away. So they

816
00:40:02,238 --> 00:40:05,958
Speaker 2: got some stuff going on there. But and they're just

817
00:40:06,158 --> 00:40:10,238
Speaker 2: missing a blue Jay's way of playing that needs to

818
00:40:10,238 --> 00:40:14,238
Speaker 2: be altered. Take the advantage of athleticism, show up your defense,

819
00:40:14,518 --> 00:40:17,278
Speaker 2: and just create an identity. I'd love to see that.

820
00:40:17,598 --> 00:40:20,318
Speaker 1: I agree everything you said there. And it's a difficult

821
00:40:20,318 --> 00:40:22,558
Speaker 1: time of year for general managers. It's the time of

822
00:40:22,678 --> 00:40:24,918
Speaker 1: year where you have to be painfully honest with what

823
00:40:24,958 --> 00:40:28,598
Speaker 1: you have and not kid yourself into thinking, well, if

824
00:40:28,598 --> 00:40:30,918
Speaker 1: this happens, and that happens, and we get this guy back,

825
00:40:31,038 --> 00:40:33,078
Speaker 1: maybe we can make a run. Eighty One games into

826
00:40:33,078 --> 00:40:35,398
Speaker 1: a season is enough to know what you have and

827
00:40:35,438 --> 00:40:38,238
Speaker 1: whether it's worth going forward or not. And I'm with

828
00:40:38,278 --> 00:40:41,878
Speaker 1: you on Toronto. It's an opportunity to maybe pivot to

829
00:40:41,958 --> 00:40:45,598
Speaker 1: something better. It's not happening this year. We're to taking

830
00:40:45,598 --> 00:40:48,078
Speaker 1: another quick break here we get back. We'll continue our

831
00:40:48,398 --> 00:40:51,118
Speaker 1: style theme on this episode of the Book of Joe

832
00:40:51,158 --> 00:40:54,558
Speaker 1: Podcasts and we go to one of our favorite areas

833
00:40:54,558 --> 00:40:56,758
Speaker 1: for that, and that is the world of rock and roll.

834
00:40:57,678 --> 00:41:13,518
Speaker 1: Be right back, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcasts.

835
00:41:13,678 --> 00:41:15,638
Speaker 1: Were a little bit late on this. A few weeks

836
00:41:15,678 --> 00:41:20,718
Speaker 1: ago Richard Tandy of the Electric Light Orchestra passed away.

837
00:41:21,158 --> 00:41:22,918
Speaker 1: You talk about I'm not going to say they were

838
00:41:22,958 --> 00:41:26,238
Speaker 1: the Willie Mays of rock bands, Joe, but ELO created

839
00:41:26,398 --> 00:41:29,958
Speaker 1: a sort of unique sound, right, the uniqueness of bands

840
00:41:29,998 --> 00:41:35,918
Speaker 1: back then, no copycats, and the way that they first

841
00:41:35,918 --> 00:41:39,118
Speaker 1: of all their name Electric Light Orchestra. You could look

842
00:41:39,158 --> 00:41:42,518
Speaker 1: at it, and they did this purposefully. The modifier could

843
00:41:42,558 --> 00:41:45,438
Speaker 1: be electric, electric light. There was something electric about what

844
00:41:45,438 --> 00:41:47,998
Speaker 1: they were doing, but also the modifier could be light

845
00:41:48,558 --> 00:41:52,038
Speaker 1: light orchestra. They wanted also an orchestral sound to what

846
00:41:52,078 --> 00:41:54,958
Speaker 1: they were doing, and Richard Tandy was the keyboardist who

847
00:41:55,038 --> 00:41:57,398
Speaker 1: really gave him a lot of that sound that you

848
00:41:57,478 --> 00:42:02,598
Speaker 1: associate with ELO. He played the mini mood synthesizer, the Warlitzer,

849
00:42:02,678 --> 00:42:07,758
Speaker 1: electric piano, the melotron, the clavinet, which I was not

850
00:42:07,918 --> 00:42:11,278
Speaker 1: familiar with, Joe. It's sort of like a keyboard where

851
00:42:11,318 --> 00:42:13,558
Speaker 1: you can get the electric guitar sound. If you think

852
00:42:13,598 --> 00:42:18,438
Speaker 1: about Stevie Wonders, Superstition, Bill Withers, use me Steely dan

853
00:42:18,518 --> 00:42:21,878
Speaker 1: On Kid Charlemagne, that's the clavinet that sound, that very

854
00:42:21,958 --> 00:42:26,958
Speaker 1: unique sound, and Richard Tandy had that for Elo. I'm

855
00:42:26,998 --> 00:42:30,198
Speaker 1: not sure if you weren't Elo fan, Joe, but it

856
00:42:30,318 --> 00:42:32,238
Speaker 1: sounds to me like that that might have been right

857
00:42:32,318 --> 00:42:32,918
Speaker 1: up your alley.

858
00:42:33,198 --> 00:42:35,638
Speaker 3: Well yeah, evil woman, right, yeah.

859
00:42:35,678 --> 00:42:40,158
Speaker 2: All that the uniqueness, this different sounds, the individuality of

860
00:42:40,198 --> 00:42:43,438
Speaker 2: the groups of the seventies and sixties cannot agree with

861
00:42:43,438 --> 00:42:45,918
Speaker 2: you more. And that's that's it's in the book. We

862
00:42:45,998 --> 00:42:49,398
Speaker 2: talked about individuality of cars. We talked about that and

863
00:42:49,438 --> 00:42:51,918
Speaker 2: that you could be a block or two away from

864
00:42:51,918 --> 00:42:53,478
Speaker 2: a car. You see a car going down the street,

865
00:42:53,478 --> 00:42:55,878
Speaker 2: you know exactly what it was, Chevy Ford whatever. You

866
00:42:55,918 --> 00:42:57,718
Speaker 2: could see all that it was, you could see it.

867
00:42:57,958 --> 00:43:01,398
Speaker 2: The colors were distinctive, they were individualized. With all the

868
00:43:01,478 --> 00:43:05,078
Speaker 2: music and the sixties and the seventies, the first almost

869
00:43:05,078 --> 00:43:07,558
Speaker 2: like the first sound you hear, you realize, oh, that's

870
00:43:07,598 --> 00:43:10,198
Speaker 2: that's Grand Funk Railroad or that's the Almond Brothers, or

871
00:43:10,198 --> 00:43:13,758
Speaker 2: that's Elo. That's what I missed, That's what I think

872
00:43:13,918 --> 00:43:17,278
Speaker 2: is missing. That's the color that is missing in our

873
00:43:17,318 --> 00:43:21,798
Speaker 2: world today. That's become so gray and shaded because everybody

874
00:43:21,918 --> 00:43:24,238
Speaker 2: is scribing to be the same with the same sound

875
00:43:24,318 --> 00:43:28,158
Speaker 2: and the same everything, and you don't get these garage

876
00:43:28,198 --> 00:43:31,278
Speaker 2: bands locked up. And I've always believed and I always

877
00:43:31,318 --> 00:43:33,318
Speaker 2: it's probably not true. But and even when it came

878
00:43:33,318 --> 00:43:35,198
Speaker 2: to authors, I love to read the first book that

879
00:43:35,238 --> 00:43:37,838
Speaker 2: they wrote, the first album that they that they made,

880
00:43:38,158 --> 00:43:40,398
Speaker 2: or the first song that they wrote, because there's so

881
00:43:40,598 --> 00:43:44,718
Speaker 2: much of them in those first that the high school,

882
00:43:44,758 --> 00:43:47,318
Speaker 2: the college ers, whatever, the garage band era or the

883
00:43:48,038 --> 00:43:51,118
Speaker 2: smoky nightclubs, all the different things, the time that you

884
00:43:51,158 --> 00:43:52,078
Speaker 2: put into that.

885
00:43:52,078 --> 00:43:53,838
Speaker 3: First moment that hit it big for you.

886
00:43:54,278 --> 00:43:57,358
Speaker 2: I always found that fascinating, and I always I would

887
00:43:57,358 --> 00:43:59,158
Speaker 2: want that first book, the first book, when I was

888
00:43:59,198 --> 00:44:03,038
Speaker 2: really an avid reader, was really interesting to me. So, yes,

889
00:44:03,998 --> 00:44:07,638
Speaker 2: viduality was promoted. They didn't want to sound like anybody else.

890
00:44:07,678 --> 00:44:10,198
Speaker 2: Ela didn't want to sound like anybody else. The Almorn

891
00:44:10,198 --> 00:44:12,718
Speaker 2: Brothers didn't want to sell like anybody else. Nobody did.

892
00:44:13,038 --> 00:44:14,838
Speaker 2: They wanted their own unique sound.

893
00:44:14,958 --> 00:44:16,558
Speaker 3: They were not copycats.

894
00:44:16,958 --> 00:44:19,518
Speaker 2: And that's my problem with everything, and maybe that goes

895
00:44:19,558 --> 00:44:23,358
Speaker 2: to my dress codes too, the fact that I love individuality,

896
00:44:23,758 --> 00:44:26,678
Speaker 2: I love teamwork. I love teams. I love teams winning.

897
00:44:27,038 --> 00:44:31,278
Speaker 2: I want groups playing for Hazelton, Hazelton High whatever whatever

898
00:44:31,358 --> 00:44:32,918
Speaker 2: that says on the front of the uniform. I want

899
00:44:32,958 --> 00:44:34,758
Speaker 2: you playing for that. Well, then I want you to

900
00:44:34,758 --> 00:44:36,918
Speaker 2: play with the name or the back of the uniform.

901
00:44:37,398 --> 00:44:40,358
Speaker 2: But it's gotten to the point now it's everybody is

902
00:44:40,398 --> 00:44:43,838
Speaker 2: so homogenized and everything has to look and even though

903
00:44:43,878 --> 00:44:46,118
Speaker 2: the city connect uniforms, to me, I don't even know

904
00:44:46,158 --> 00:44:48,758
Speaker 2: why they're praised. I watched a seventh game last night

905
00:44:48,798 --> 00:44:52,118
Speaker 2: of the Stanley Cup and they're all both in there

906
00:44:52,118 --> 00:44:56,518
Speaker 2: pretty much historical. The Panther's not that all, but the Oilers.

907
00:44:57,438 --> 00:45:00,878
Speaker 2: I love hockey. I mean, hockey is really adhere to

908
00:45:00,198 --> 00:45:03,038
Speaker 2: their to their roots. There's not a whole lot of

909
00:45:04,078 --> 00:45:07,038
Speaker 2: necessary could perceive change that needs to be made there

910
00:45:07,038 --> 00:45:09,278
Speaker 2: in the game and how it's played whatever. Probably a

911
00:45:09,278 --> 00:45:12,038
Speaker 2: little less fighting, but the Rangers brought that back this

912
00:45:12,158 --> 00:45:12,798
Speaker 2: year a little bit.

913
00:45:13,038 --> 00:45:13,638
Speaker 1: I love that.

914
00:45:13,878 --> 00:45:15,038
Speaker 3: I love that about hockey.

915
00:45:15,078 --> 00:45:17,958
Speaker 2: I love the fact that they've held on and they're

916
00:45:17,998 --> 00:45:21,598
Speaker 2: still the same, and they have uniqueness about the way

917
00:45:21,638 --> 00:45:24,198
Speaker 2: they play and the game itself.

918
00:45:23,758 --> 00:45:25,518
Speaker 3: And the players. I love hockey players.

919
00:45:25,558 --> 00:45:28,278
Speaker 2: I think these guys are tough and they're polite and

920
00:45:28,318 --> 00:45:33,798
Speaker 2: they do dress well. Individuality rules, it rocks while you're

921
00:45:33,838 --> 00:45:35,438
Speaker 2: working within a team concept.

922
00:45:35,798 --> 00:45:36,318
Speaker 3: That is my.

923
00:45:37,878 --> 00:45:41,198
Speaker 2: Dream situation as a manager, When I'm working with a

924
00:45:41,238 --> 00:45:45,278
Speaker 2: bunch of individuals that show up, that inspire one another,

925
00:45:45,518 --> 00:45:48,798
Speaker 2: that are different. There's a diverseness about it. But first

926
00:45:48,798 --> 00:45:52,438
Speaker 2: pitch is thrown, here's the tip off. The puck is dropped,

927
00:45:52,638 --> 00:45:53,078
Speaker 2: we're all.

928
00:45:52,998 --> 00:45:53,638
Speaker 3: Playing as one.

929
00:45:54,038 --> 00:45:55,878
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean well said. I mean back in the

930
00:45:55,918 --> 00:45:58,558
Speaker 1: day with rock bands, just because this is how it

931
00:45:58,638 --> 00:46:02,118
Speaker 1: was done. Recordings were literally recordings, right, You had to

932
00:46:02,158 --> 00:46:06,238
Speaker 1: go into the studio as a and laid down tracks.

933
00:46:06,478 --> 00:46:11,038
Speaker 1: You know, it was about musicianship, it was about vocal range.

934
00:46:11,478 --> 00:46:14,158
Speaker 1: Now there's so much that can be done with technology.

935
00:46:14,198 --> 00:46:16,678
Speaker 1: You can basically make an album on a laptop, right,

936
00:46:17,078 --> 00:46:19,838
Speaker 1: And it's kind of scary where things are going when

937
00:46:19,838 --> 00:46:22,278
Speaker 1: it comes to AI. I had a friend who got

938
00:46:22,318 --> 00:46:26,958
Speaker 1: a spam call, except the spam call had literally copied

939
00:46:26,998 --> 00:46:29,838
Speaker 1: to a t the voice that you would normally if

940
00:46:29,878 --> 00:46:34,758
Speaker 1: you were this bank's customer. That voice, that recorded voice.

941
00:46:34,798 --> 00:46:37,638
Speaker 1: They literally copied it, so it was not just sending

942
00:46:37,638 --> 00:46:41,038
Speaker 1: you now an email where maybe there's some spelling errors,

943
00:46:41,078 --> 00:46:43,278
Speaker 1: the logo's not quite of the bank they're trying to

944
00:46:43,478 --> 00:46:46,078
Speaker 1: rip off, but you can actually copy the voice and

945
00:46:46,118 --> 00:46:48,918
Speaker 1: now images as well. And it's kind of scary. So

946
00:46:49,198 --> 00:46:51,478
Speaker 1: who knows where it's going next. But just in our

947
00:46:51,518 --> 00:46:54,438
Speaker 1: world today, Joe, there's less of that uniqueness that you're

948
00:46:54,478 --> 00:46:57,518
Speaker 1: talking about and the willingness to be wrong and to miss.

949
00:46:57,598 --> 00:47:00,358
Speaker 1: How many bands tried to go in certain areas and

950
00:47:00,478 --> 00:47:02,678
Speaker 1: you know, put out some albums that frankly would just

951
00:47:02,678 --> 00:47:05,398
Speaker 1: weren't very good. But that was the cost or price,

952
00:47:05,438 --> 00:47:08,678
Speaker 1: if you will, of being unique and not trying to

953
00:47:08,678 --> 00:47:09,638
Speaker 1: copy somebody else.

954
00:47:10,158 --> 00:47:12,118
Speaker 3: Awesome, wonderful, that's right.

955
00:47:12,758 --> 00:47:16,518
Speaker 2: Fearlessness about it, be willing to accept the criticism. That

956
00:47:16,958 --> 00:47:19,438
Speaker 2: is an awesome way to live. And that's part of

957
00:47:19,518 --> 00:47:22,398
Speaker 2: what you're missing. You cannot be afraid to lose to

958
00:47:22,438 --> 00:47:25,518
Speaker 2: be great. You cannot be afraid to fail to be great.

959
00:47:25,638 --> 00:47:27,278
Speaker 2: You have to know that you're going to fail to

960
00:47:27,318 --> 00:47:31,278
Speaker 2: be great. Everybody's looking for soft landings all the time anymore. No,

961
00:47:31,398 --> 00:47:33,358
Speaker 2: there's got to be some rough landings. There's got to

962
00:47:33,398 --> 00:47:34,918
Speaker 2: be in order to be great, there's got to be

963
00:47:34,918 --> 00:47:37,718
Speaker 2: a few rough landings in your existence. So I'm all

964
00:47:37,758 --> 00:47:40,278
Speaker 2: about that. I think it's God Do I appreciate that

965
00:47:40,318 --> 00:47:42,998
Speaker 2: when I when I when I witness or talk to

966
00:47:43,158 --> 00:47:47,118
Speaker 2: groups or people or kids or whatever that have gone

967
00:47:47,118 --> 00:47:49,438
Speaker 2: through some tough times that come out the other side. Man,

968
00:47:50,158 --> 00:47:52,398
Speaker 2: they got they got my full attention, They got my

969
00:47:52,438 --> 00:47:53,998
Speaker 2: full attention, my full support.

970
00:47:54,158 --> 00:47:54,638
Speaker 3: I love that.

971
00:47:54,758 --> 00:47:57,318
Speaker 2: Don't be afraid. Fortune favors the bold. I had that

972
00:47:57,358 --> 00:48:00,158
Speaker 2: in my in my locker room at the Rays, And

973
00:48:00,758 --> 00:48:04,758
Speaker 2: it's true. It's absolutely true. And you're only going to

974
00:48:04,838 --> 00:48:07,998
Speaker 2: be bold if you really believe in something. You can't

975
00:48:07,998 --> 00:48:10,958
Speaker 2: be bold about something if you don't really believe in

976
00:48:10,998 --> 00:48:13,838
Speaker 2: it and know it and understand it. You have to

977
00:48:13,878 --> 00:48:16,878
Speaker 2: feel as though you're right, regardless of what anybody says.

978
00:48:17,078 --> 00:48:18,238
Speaker 3: You have to believe that.

979
00:48:18,438 --> 00:48:21,438
Speaker 2: I want it fearlessness in my players, and I want

980
00:48:21,478 --> 00:48:24,438
Speaker 2: fearlessness in my coaching staffs. And to me, that's the

981
00:48:24,478 --> 00:48:27,398
Speaker 2: one quality I want all the people that I work

982
00:48:27,438 --> 00:48:29,878
Speaker 2: with to have, because I'm going to get all of them.

983
00:48:29,958 --> 00:48:31,958
Speaker 2: They're not going to be afraid of a conversation. You're

984
00:48:31,958 --> 00:48:34,318
Speaker 2: going to tell them exactly what they're thinking. They're not

985
00:48:34,358 --> 00:48:36,118
Speaker 2: going to back down in a tough moment. They're going

986
00:48:36,158 --> 00:48:38,878
Speaker 2: to support one another where everybody's gonna have each other's back.

987
00:48:38,998 --> 00:48:40,958
Speaker 2: And that's not even spoken about it enough. I don't

988
00:48:40,958 --> 00:48:43,638
Speaker 2: think when you talk about qualities that are necessary to

989
00:48:43,678 --> 00:48:46,678
Speaker 2: be successful, to me, that's number one. I want dudes

990
00:48:46,958 --> 00:48:50,478
Speaker 2: and do that as ladies that are not afraid to

991
00:48:50,678 --> 00:48:53,838
Speaker 2: make a mistake. There's a fearlessness about them. That's what

992
00:48:53,918 --> 00:48:54,518
Speaker 2: attracts me.

993
00:48:54,998 --> 00:48:56,798
Speaker 1: Yeah, I use this line a lot, Joe, and I

994
00:48:56,838 --> 00:48:59,198
Speaker 1: got it from Vince Scully, and you just reminded me

995
00:48:59,198 --> 00:49:02,118
Speaker 1: of this. Vin Scully, of course, was probably the best

996
00:49:02,118 --> 00:49:05,358
Speaker 1: broadcaster ever in baseball, and he was that way right

997
00:49:05,438 --> 00:49:08,318
Speaker 1: up until his last year calling games for the Dodgers.

998
00:49:08,398 --> 00:49:10,598
Speaker 1: So I asked him, you know, how could you possibly

999
00:49:10,718 --> 00:49:13,998
Speaker 1: be this good for this long? And he actually paraphrased

1000
00:49:14,038 --> 00:49:17,158
Speaker 1: something he had heard from the great actor Lawrence Olivier.

1001
00:49:18,038 --> 00:49:22,878
Speaker 1: He said, you need the humbleness to prepare. In other words,

1002
00:49:23,438 --> 00:49:25,558
Speaker 1: you need to know that you don't know everything. You

1003
00:49:25,678 --> 00:49:28,638
Speaker 1: just can't skate through life. You have to prepare. And

1004
00:49:28,758 --> 00:49:32,158
Speaker 1: Vince Gully was he prepared for his last game as

1005
00:49:32,198 --> 00:49:34,278
Speaker 1: if he was his first game, and he said, then

1006
00:49:34,318 --> 00:49:36,758
Speaker 1: you need the confidence to pull it off. And I

1007
00:49:36,798 --> 00:49:39,398
Speaker 1: think that's what you're talking about, Joe. You can have mentors,

1008
00:49:39,438 --> 00:49:42,558
Speaker 1: you can have support people, you can have people encourage you,

1009
00:49:42,598 --> 00:49:45,358
Speaker 1: and my goodness, we need those people, there's no question

1010
00:49:45,438 --> 00:49:48,958
Speaker 1: about it. But you also need that inner confidence that

1011
00:49:49,198 --> 00:49:52,238
Speaker 1: I can do this. This is important to me, this

1012
00:49:52,318 --> 00:49:55,238
Speaker 1: is what I love to do. If you don't have that,

1013
00:49:56,158 --> 00:49:58,958
Speaker 1: as many people are supporting you, you're just not going

1014
00:49:58,998 --> 00:50:01,598
Speaker 1: to make it. That just kind of inner compass, that

1015
00:50:01,758 --> 00:50:04,238
Speaker 1: inner drive that you have that I can do this.

1016
00:50:04,758 --> 00:50:07,318
Speaker 1: You have to find a way to have that, at

1017
00:50:07,398 --> 00:50:10,078
Speaker 1: least if you really want to succeed at whatever passion

1018
00:50:10,118 --> 00:50:10,398
Speaker 1: you have.

1019
00:50:11,078 --> 00:50:11,438
Speaker 3: Amen.

1020
00:50:12,638 --> 00:50:15,918
Speaker 2: You know, I'm thinking of myself as a kid coming up.

1021
00:50:16,038 --> 00:50:19,038
Speaker 2: You know, you lay in bed, you have all these trepidations,

1022
00:50:19,158 --> 00:50:22,558
Speaker 2: these fears, I mean these we're always afraid of something.

1023
00:50:22,798 --> 00:50:24,558
Speaker 2: We don't even know why we're afraid of something, but

1024
00:50:24,598 --> 00:50:28,238
Speaker 2: we're afraid of it. And the only way to overcome

1025
00:50:28,278 --> 00:50:31,038
Speaker 2: that is to just stir it down and attack that.

1026
00:50:31,078 --> 00:50:33,318
Speaker 2: Whatever that fear may be. That kind of a fear

1027
00:50:33,398 --> 00:50:36,918
Speaker 2: holds you back. It does not permit you to be

1028
00:50:36,958 --> 00:50:39,838
Speaker 2: in the flow in the moment to be able to breathe,

1029
00:50:39,878 --> 00:50:43,118
Speaker 2: to do the thing that you want to do so desperately. Well,

1030
00:50:43,238 --> 00:50:46,078
Speaker 2: you can't do it well if you permit fear to

1031
00:50:46,118 --> 00:50:48,838
Speaker 2: take over. A great line I read one time, feel

1032
00:50:48,838 --> 00:50:51,638
Speaker 2: the fear and do it anyway. Anybody that's looking to

1033
00:50:52,838 --> 00:50:56,118
Speaker 2: advance in their career and their personal life, relationship, whatever,

1034
00:50:56,518 --> 00:50:58,398
Speaker 2: you have to feel the fear and do it anyway.

1035
00:50:58,758 --> 00:51:01,438
Speaker 2: And if you do that, then you can't. You can't

1036
00:51:01,478 --> 00:51:04,398
Speaker 2: overcome whatever that thing is that we're all God, we're

1037
00:51:04,398 --> 00:51:06,158
Speaker 2: all born with it. We don't even know what it is,

1038
00:51:06,918 --> 00:51:10,158
Speaker 2: but it's just in a trepidation about doing something differently

1039
00:51:10,198 --> 00:51:14,278
Speaker 2: sometimes and God bless those that don't have that, although

1040
00:51:14,318 --> 00:51:16,878
Speaker 2: I do like the fact that I have that, because

1041
00:51:17,518 --> 00:51:19,558
Speaker 2: I think you do remain.

1042
00:51:19,358 --> 00:51:20,238
Speaker 3: Humble with that.

1043
00:51:21,358 --> 00:51:25,678
Speaker 2: You do eventually proceed with caution, but you do proceed

1044
00:51:26,038 --> 00:51:29,438
Speaker 2: and then eventually come out the other side. So, yeah, Scully,

1045
00:51:29,438 --> 00:51:32,078
Speaker 2: how about you talking about preparedness? Went up there, me

1046
00:51:32,118 --> 00:51:33,758
Speaker 2: and David Ross went up there to give him a

1047
00:51:33,878 --> 00:51:36,878
Speaker 2: number off the scoreboard at Wrigley Field, sixty something for

1048
00:51:36,918 --> 00:51:38,918
Speaker 2: the years in the business. We go up through the

1049
00:51:39,878 --> 00:51:44,238
Speaker 2: Vin Scully broadcast booth at Dodger Stadium, walk in the door.

1050
00:51:44,318 --> 00:51:47,638
Speaker 2: The first thing he asks me, how's Beanie? My mom?

1051
00:51:47,798 --> 00:51:50,678
Speaker 2: That's the first thing that Ben Scully asked me, how's

1052
00:51:50,678 --> 00:51:51,278
Speaker 2: Beanie doing?

1053
00:51:51,558 --> 00:51:52,398
Speaker 3: And that said it all.

1054
00:51:52,838 --> 00:51:59,038
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's humility and confidence, not in conflict, but in tandem.

1055
00:51:59,678 --> 00:52:03,278
Speaker 1: One last note here on Elo they have a kind

1056
00:52:03,318 --> 00:52:06,358
Speaker 1: of s a t record, if you will. They have

1057
00:52:06,438 --> 00:52:11,038
Speaker 1: the most billboard top forty hits, twenty of them without

1058
00:52:11,158 --> 00:52:14,158
Speaker 1: ever having a number one. So they're kind of like

1059
00:52:14,198 --> 00:52:19,198
Speaker 1: the Ernie Banks of rock and roll bands. Right, that's awesome.

1060
00:52:19,478 --> 00:52:21,798
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody you know if bands need

1061
00:52:21,798 --> 00:52:25,078
Speaker 1: that number one hit for validation, and personally I think

1062
00:52:25,078 --> 00:52:28,158
Speaker 1: it's cooler to have twenty top forty hits and have

1063
00:52:28,278 --> 00:52:30,718
Speaker 1: one and be a one hit wonder. But that's the

1064
00:52:30,758 --> 00:52:32,718
Speaker 1: Earnie Banks of rock and roll bands for me. Is

1065
00:52:32,758 --> 00:52:35,318
Speaker 1: ee loojeene mock. Yeah, here you go.

1066
00:52:36,838 --> 00:52:40,558
Speaker 2: Right, So many wonderful, great people in different fields that

1067
00:52:40,718 --> 00:52:45,558
Speaker 2: never reach the pinnacle for whatever reason, Dan Reno, right, right,

1068
00:52:45,718 --> 00:52:47,878
Speaker 2: So that that happens, that happens, but it doesn't in

1069
00:52:47,878 --> 00:52:51,198
Speaker 2: any way deters from the greatness of that individual or group.

1070
00:52:52,038 --> 00:52:54,878
Speaker 2: But that's really a great point. And I never knew

1071
00:52:54,878 --> 00:52:57,558
Speaker 2: that about a yellow I'd listened to them, like I said,

1072
00:52:57,678 --> 00:53:00,078
Speaker 2: that is all. I think, it's all very interesting stuff.

1073
00:53:00,318 --> 00:53:02,398
Speaker 1: All right, mister Blue Sky, what do you got for

1074
00:53:02,478 --> 00:53:04,598
Speaker 1: us to take us home? Today? To wrap up this

1075
00:53:04,878 --> 00:53:07,278
Speaker 1: style edition of the Book of Joe Podcasts.

1076
00:53:07,318 --> 00:53:10,598
Speaker 2: God, I'm all over the place, man, I'm all over

1077
00:53:10,678 --> 00:53:12,798
Speaker 2: the place. I'm like, you know, as we're talking, I

1078
00:53:12,838 --> 00:53:15,878
Speaker 2: had that showed you the card that I had before, and.

1079
00:53:15,798 --> 00:53:16,798
Speaker 3: I'm going to conclude with that.

1080
00:53:16,878 --> 00:53:18,838
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to go three things that I

1081
00:53:18,878 --> 00:53:23,078
Speaker 2: please forgive me for this. But Yogi bear a lot

1082
00:53:23,118 --> 00:53:26,358
Speaker 2: of this you know, Yogi stuff. But he said love

1083
00:53:26,438 --> 00:53:28,358
Speaker 2: was the most important thing in the world. But baseball

1084
00:53:28,438 --> 00:53:32,238
Speaker 2: is pretty good too. I was thinking about, you know,

1085
00:53:32,318 --> 00:53:36,238
Speaker 2: the situations Willy and rick Wood Stadium this week and

1086
00:53:36,238 --> 00:53:40,758
Speaker 2: how that all came about. I think that really encapsulates

1087
00:53:41,038 --> 00:53:43,558
Speaker 2: all of that. And I didn't see the beginning of

1088
00:53:43,558 --> 00:53:45,398
Speaker 2: the game. It didn't realize his son had said that.

1089
00:53:46,078 --> 00:53:48,638
Speaker 2: And I think that's so right on. And it was

1090
00:53:48,678 --> 00:53:50,598
Speaker 2: a celebration, no question.

1091
00:53:51,158 --> 00:53:52,878
Speaker 1: By the way, before you get to number two, you

1092
00:53:52,958 --> 00:53:55,358
Speaker 1: mentioned Yogi. I gotta throw this in and connect Yogi

1093
00:53:55,398 --> 00:53:58,638
Speaker 1: and Willie Mays. Okay, Willie Mays's first number with the

1094
00:53:58,638 --> 00:54:01,758
Speaker 1: Giants was actually number fourteen. It was not twenty four.

1095
00:54:02,838 --> 00:54:05,918
Speaker 1: There was a guy named Jasjack McGuire, an outfielder for

1096
00:54:05,958 --> 00:54:08,838
Speaker 1: the Giants, who had twenty four. The day Willie comes up,

1097
00:54:08,878 --> 00:54:11,478
Speaker 1: they put him on waivers. Three days later the Pirates

1098
00:54:11,518 --> 00:54:15,998
Speaker 1: claimed Jack McGuire off waivers. Willie switches from fourteen to

1099
00:54:16,118 --> 00:54:19,878
Speaker 1: twenty four. Jack McGuire grew up in Saint Louis with

1100
00:54:19,998 --> 00:54:23,518
Speaker 1: Yogi Bearra was a buddy of his, and Jack McGuire

1101
00:54:23,718 --> 00:54:26,078
Speaker 1: was the one who came up with the nickname for

1102
00:54:26,198 --> 00:54:30,558
Speaker 1: Lawrence Peter Bearra, calling him Yogi. So Jack McGuire, a

1103
00:54:30,598 --> 00:54:34,238
Speaker 1: player you've never heard of, gave Willie Mays his number

1104
00:54:34,278 --> 00:54:36,118
Speaker 1: and Yogi Bera his nickname.

1105
00:54:36,878 --> 00:54:38,198
Speaker 2: That is beautiful man.

1106
00:54:39,118 --> 00:54:41,598
Speaker 3: That's awesome. I never heard that. I love that.

1107
00:54:41,678 --> 00:54:43,998
Speaker 1: All Right on to number two. I love the fact

1108
00:54:44,038 --> 00:54:46,038
Speaker 1: that you're giving us three here and not just one.

1109
00:54:46,478 --> 00:54:51,878
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, this is your thoughts. Today's been outstanding. Number

1110
00:54:51,878 --> 00:54:54,598
Speaker 2: two comes from a teacher that's passed away here at

1111
00:54:54,638 --> 00:55:00,038
Speaker 2: Julie Franzosa. He was part of the history department Social

1112
00:55:00,078 --> 00:55:02,238
Speaker 2: studies here at Hazleton High School back in the day,

1113
00:55:02,918 --> 00:55:04,718
Speaker 2: and he used to go to third lunching at my

1114
00:55:04,918 --> 00:55:06,998
Speaker 2: uncle's restaurant and sit at the counter and have his

1115
00:55:07,078 --> 00:55:10,318
Speaker 2: coffee like they all did. And Julie one day blurted

1116
00:55:10,358 --> 00:55:12,718
Speaker 2: out and it this applies to what you're talking about,

1117
00:55:12,758 --> 00:55:15,558
Speaker 2: the how the world's moved on since COVID, and you

1118
00:55:15,558 --> 00:55:17,518
Speaker 2: can even go farther back than that, when things were

1119
00:55:17,558 --> 00:55:20,518
Speaker 2: less complicated. But he once said things are better when

1120
00:55:20,518 --> 00:55:23,958
Speaker 2: they were worse. And I use that a lot, and I,

1121
00:55:23,998 --> 00:55:27,678
Speaker 2: you know, we always and that speaks to the word progress.

1122
00:55:27,718 --> 00:55:29,878
Speaker 2: I mean, like I actually heard Bill Maher say it

1123
00:55:29,878 --> 00:55:32,638
Speaker 2: the other day. He's talked about progress being progressive is

1124
00:55:32,678 --> 00:55:37,598
Speaker 2: doesn't always necessarily mean something is progressing its progress, but

1125
00:55:37,638 --> 00:55:40,158
Speaker 2: things are better when they were worse, mister Julie Franzosa.

1126
00:55:40,638 --> 00:55:43,878
Speaker 2: And finally, a card that we found on the shelf

1127
00:55:43,878 --> 00:55:46,598
Speaker 2: the other day that I thought was funny and I

1128
00:55:46,638 --> 00:55:51,878
Speaker 2: think it applies. Someone stole my antidepressants. I hope they're happy.

1129
00:55:54,478 --> 00:55:55,078
Speaker 2: So that's it.

1130
00:55:56,238 --> 00:55:58,358
Speaker 1: I love it. That's awesome. That's a great way to

1131
00:55:58,478 --> 00:56:00,838
Speaker 1: end it. Joe. It's been a lot of fun and

1132
00:56:00,918 --> 00:56:01,878
Speaker 1: we'll do it next time.

1133
00:56:02,118 --> 00:56:03,478
Speaker 3: Thanks Tommy, great job, buddy.

1134
00:56:13,038 --> 00:56:16,278
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1135
00:56:16,478 --> 00:56:21,478
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1136
00:56:21,598 --> 00:56:23,358
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.