Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
Speaker 1: it with the Bedel Cast. Hey, it's Caitlin and Jamie
Speaker 1: and you're about to hear our episode on ELF. But
Speaker 1: first we just had a few quick plugs that we
Speaker 1: wanted to do at the top of the show. Starting
Speaker 1: with our next live show in Los Angeles is January twelve.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited guest Danielle Perez. Ever heard of her?
Speaker 1: Friend of the cast might remember her from our hocus
Speaker 1: Pocus episode. Let's go back to your research. So she's
Speaker 1: coming back and we're talking about Romeo and Michelle's high
Speaker 1: school reunion movie and I haven't seen yet. Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited for you to see it. So that's
Speaker 1: on January twelve at nine pm at The Ruby, and
Speaker 1: tickets are on sale for that at bectelcast dot com
Speaker 1: and click on live appearances. And just a reminder that
Speaker 1: we have a live show in l A every second
Speaker 1: Saturday of the month at the Ruby at the Ruby
Speaker 1: at nine pm, So mark your calendars and don't do
Speaker 1: anything else except for that, and I think all of
Speaker 1: our regulars can attest because we do have rags, join
Speaker 1: the fam. It's a small, intimate, fun show. We always
Speaker 1: hang after. We bring scloocy merch. What more could you want?
Speaker 1: Nothing more? Nothing? Um speaking of other live shows, there
Speaker 1: are still tickets left to some of our West Coast
Speaker 1: tour shows in January. So at the time of this recording,
Speaker 1: we've got tickets left to our San Francisco show on January.
Speaker 1: That's a part of SF sketch Fest. We're talking about
Speaker 1: the Breakfast Club, and there are tickets left to our
Speaker 1: show in Portland on January. We're talking about Fight Club
Speaker 1: as well as the two of us are doing a
Speaker 1: stand up show in Seattle. Yes, just the two of us,
Speaker 1: Just the two of us doing our stand up coming day.
Speaker 1: I ever heard of it. If you haven't, you're going
Speaker 1: to have to fly yourself out to Seattle. Sorry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that's on January, and tickets for all of those
Speaker 1: shows are same place backdelcast dot com and click on
Speaker 1: live appearances And then, um, I would just like to
Speaker 1: plug a couple of things that just I'm doing. Sorry Jamie,
Speaker 1: but like okay, I know. I'm so sorry, but you
Speaker 1: know I'm running some screenwriting workshops. You can come. Yes,
Speaker 1: I would love to learn on um. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: want to learn from someone who has a master's degree
Speaker 1: in screen right now bought. Yes, I don't know what
Speaker 1: I'm doing, but I would love to. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'd love to teach you. So um if you want
Speaker 1: to come with Jamie to either. The one I'm doing
Speaker 1: in um Portland is January at seven pm, and I'm
Speaker 1: doing on in Seattle on January. I think that one's
Speaker 1: in the afternoon. It's a Saturday. Yeah, come and learn
Speaker 1: from a master. And it's just like a crash course
Speaker 1: in all things writing for the screen. So I love it.
Speaker 1: Thank you great um. And more info and the registration
Speaker 1: links are on my website Caitlin Dronte dot com and
Speaker 1: then click on the show's tab. You can go to
Speaker 1: my website, but it's mostly dead links and a lot
Speaker 1: of videos of hot dogs. I I recently hyper linked there.
Speaker 1: My website is eighty present the episode of How It's
Speaker 1: Made of Various Meats. Oh that sounds disgusting, no offense,
Speaker 1: but Jamie Loft is his innocent. Dot com is the
Speaker 1: hyperlink for all the meat videos. Yes, please just go
Speaker 1: there for fun anyway. So those are the quick plugs
Speaker 1: we wanted to do at the top of the show.
Speaker 1: So you log hou it's made uppisode for hot dogs anyways.
Speaker 1: Enjoyed that? Yeah, enjoy the episode. It's a great one.
Speaker 1: And uh, well we'll see you soon. I'm going to
Speaker 1: tweet that. Ok. Bye cast. Hi, Hi everyone, thanks for
Speaker 1: coming to the Becdel Cast. Hi everyone. My name is
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante, and this is
Speaker 1: our show that you're at. And maybe was anyone here
Speaker 1: dragged by a loved one? Raise your hands? It always
Speaker 1: takes a second. They're like, well, thank you for coming.
Speaker 1: By round of applause, who has seen the movie? Else? Great?
Speaker 1: Everyone but me? Cool? Is there anyone by round of
Speaker 1: applause who has not seen el Yes, allies, there's always
Speaker 1: a couple, there's always of you. So we are the
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. We talk about the portrayal and representation of women,
Speaker 1: among other things in film, using the Bechdel test as
Speaker 1: like a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation.
Speaker 1: And if you don't know what the Bechtel test is UH.
Speaker 1: First of all, a shame on you. Second of all,
Speaker 1: I take it back, You're fine, But it is is.
Speaker 1: It's a media test invented by Alison Bechdel that requires
Speaker 1: that there be two female identifying characters in a narrative that,
Speaker 1: for us, have names, and they have to talk to
Speaker 1: each other about something other than a man for a
Speaker 1: total of two lines of dialogue. So if you've seen Elf,
Speaker 1: just think about that for a second. A lot of
Speaker 1: movies don't do this. They're not able to do what
Speaker 1: is truly the bare minimum. My favorite bad pass because
Speaker 1: I most like most media tests, it is a flawed metric.
Speaker 1: UH is the She's All that where one of the
Speaker 1: named female characters tells the other named female character to
Speaker 1: kill herself and the first one's like, hey, you're like
Speaker 1: technically it passes. Yeah, a really good one. Um. So,
Speaker 1: do we have any other orders of business that we
Speaker 1: need to attend to before we introduce our guests? I
Speaker 1: don't think so. I skipped the middleman tonight. You iced yourself.
Speaker 1: I iced myself quietly backstage like a lady, and I
Speaker 1: just said you've been nice, and then I twisted the
Speaker 1: cap myself and got down to business. So I'm ready
Speaker 1: to go beautiful. Yeah. Well, without much further ado, let's
Speaker 1: introduce our guest. She is a recovering child actor. She's
Speaker 1: a writer. She wrote the book Where Am I Now?
Speaker 1: And she has a newsletter called shan't we tell the Vicar?
Speaker 1: Please give it up? Fromara Wilson. Hey, hello, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: The audience is so close, and that is something that
Speaker 1: is completely wasted on the podcast audience because they can't
Speaker 1: say it. I hate when people do that when they
Speaker 1: record podcasts and they'll be like and then I went
Speaker 1: like this, and then they'll do something with their hand
Speaker 1: that we can't see and I'm just like, explain what
Speaker 1: you just did? So so yeah, so so for those
Speaker 1: listening at home, the audience is close. But they're all
Speaker 1: beautiful people, so it's nice to look at you all.
Speaker 1: I do like the jarring nature of a room where
Speaker 1: you can make eye contact with everyone. Well, I get
Speaker 1: a good feeling from this audience, so yeah, I got
Speaker 1: a good feeling. They're they're receptive audience so far, and
Speaker 1: they're very smiley, so yeah, this is good. Yes, some
Speaker 1: good eyeballs. Yes, because we can see you too. So
Speaker 1: Mara tell us about your relationship, your your history with
Speaker 1: the movie Elf. Okay, well, uh so, I remember when
Speaker 1: I was sixteen, I thought that I was like highbrow
Speaker 1: by reading like Entertainment Weekly, and you know, I was
Speaker 1: reading The Advocate a lot too. I was reading like
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, which is like a game magazine.
Speaker 1: I was really in the closet guys, um, and I was,
Speaker 1: but I was really like, I was reading a lot
Speaker 1: about entertainment, and uh, I heard that Elf was a
Speaker 1: good movie. And I knew that my family we were
Speaker 1: going to go see movies over over winter break, and
Speaker 1: my stepmother would usually choose a romantic comedy that I
Speaker 1: didn't like because I was a very cynical teenager. Um.
Speaker 1: And somehow, being a cynical teenager, I still chose to
Speaker 1: see ELF. I was like, let's go see Elf. I've
Speaker 1: heard that it's good and for like a holiday movie,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe, but like I feel like nobody and
Speaker 1: my family enjoyed it. And then like we were really
Speaker 1: quiet in the way home, and I feel like everybody.
Speaker 1: I feel like my parents didn't like get my sister,
Speaker 1: my little sister says she liked it, but she didn't
Speaker 1: seem to at the time, and I feel like everybody
Speaker 1: blamed me, like they didn't like the movie and they
Speaker 1: blamed me. And I remember being like being sixteen and
Speaker 1: being like, this is so stupid. So I didn't really
Speaker 1: think anything of it until a couple of years later. Um.
Speaker 1: It's also probably worth mentioning that I grew up Jewish,
Speaker 1: um so a lot of holiday movies, although I was
Speaker 1: actually in a Christmas movie and at one point in
Speaker 1: my life, and uh, one thing I've got to say
Speaker 1: is if you ever have the chance to be in
Speaker 1: a Christmas movie or sing a Christmas song or something
Speaker 1: like that, go for it. Because even if it's bad,
Speaker 1: they need stuff to like fill the air on TV
Speaker 1: and radio. So even if it's terrible, do it and
Speaker 1: you will still make money. Like it is a very
Speaker 1: practical thing. Working in a Christmas working in the Christmas industry,
Speaker 1: you can say, is a very very that is a
Speaker 1: very pragmatic move. So, um, I didn't think much of it,
Speaker 1: although I did see the Broadway musical a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago because I was babysitting in New York and
Speaker 1: the kids I babysat their parents worked for for theaters
Speaker 1: and so we got front row tickets to elf um
Speaker 1: the Music Hall, and like, you know, you can think
Speaker 1: that like Will fair Old does a lot in this movie,
Speaker 1: but imagine the actor who had to play Buddy for
Speaker 1: two hours straight like there was an intermission and singing
Speaker 1: dance the whole freaking time. Like that guy, that guy
Speaker 1: is amazing. I wish I could remember his name. I
Speaker 1: am like still in awe of that guy. And not
Speaker 1: only that, but the kids I was babysitting with. They
Speaker 1: were like all dressed up to go to the theater
Speaker 1: and they were sitting in the front row with me.
Speaker 1: And at the end, he bowed and he bowed and
Speaker 1: he waved right at the kid that was one of
Speaker 1: the kids who was like front row center. So like
Speaker 1: that guy has my heart forever, like like Will Ferrell
Speaker 1: your grape, but like this is the true Buddy in
Speaker 1: my head. But I watched it again the other day,
Speaker 1: and um, it's not my favorite movie and it's not
Speaker 1: my favorite Christmas movie. But I was like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: get what they were going for now I'm not like
Speaker 1: I'm not a cynical teenager anymore. And there's also a
Speaker 1: lot of actors in it that I like and you know,
Speaker 1: so I was just kind of like, Okay, this is
Speaker 1: this is kind of cute. There's also things that really
Speaker 1: really have not aged well or even and we're kind
Speaker 1: of weird at the time, but but I imagine that
Speaker 1: we are going to get into this. So that is
Speaker 1: my long protracted relationship to ELF, which I thought I
Speaker 1: didn't have much of a relationship with it, but I
Speaker 1: just talked for five minutes straight, so I guess I do.
Speaker 1: I just want to give a shout out to the
Speaker 1: guy who played SpongeBob on Broadway now god right, because
Speaker 1: he had what Ethan Slater, Yes, shout out, you know,
Speaker 1: I get you. Shout out to Ethan Slater. He first
Speaker 1: of all, is hot, which is SpongeBob shouldn't be hot.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, wow, it's crazy. Not as hot as
Speaker 1: squid word, but that I have a I have a
Speaker 1: power ranking that you can approach me afterwards if you dare. Wow.
Speaker 1: But SpongeBob, I mean he like climbed up like two
Speaker 1: stories set and like the third song and then he
Speaker 1: has to still be SpongeBob, but he has muscles. It's great.
Speaker 1: I know somebody who was in SpongeBob the musical and
Speaker 1: she also has limitless energy, So I feel like that
Speaker 1: that kind of makes sense. That's kind of what they
Speaker 1: go for. I love it. Yeah, it's it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: I feel really bad because I'm just like lauding this guy,
Speaker 1: but I can't remember what his name was. So just kids,
Speaker 1: everybody go home and google Buddy the elf In musical
Speaker 1: in Uh yeah, everybody do that and then like find
Speaker 1: him on Twitter and be like Marl Wilson says, you're awesome.
Speaker 1: Don't do that? Uh do you do that? If you?
Speaker 1: If you are Jamie, what's your history and relationship with
Speaker 1: the movie. I feel like this has happened to me
Speaker 1: with a lot of recent movies where I thought I
Speaker 1: had seen the movie but I actually hadn't, and I
Speaker 1: had just seen a lot of T shirts and had
Speaker 1: heard a lot of people say you've seen that. I
Speaker 1: think I just like, through years of lying, convinced myself
Speaker 1: and had seen it. I had. I had the same
Speaker 1: issue with Nightmare before Christmas, was like, nope, just been
Speaker 1: to a hot topic. I don't know what store this
Speaker 1: movie is associated with, so I don't have quite the
Speaker 1: same names, but the same problem. Yeah, sure, I don't
Speaker 1: know it's weird because I was like the perfect age
Speaker 1: to see this movie when it came out. And I
Speaker 1: don't know what my mom's problem with Will Ferrell was exactly,
Speaker 1: but what she told me because I remember asking to
Speaker 1: see this movie because we you know, we were festive.
Speaker 1: You know, we're like we would see stuff one of
Speaker 1: those fun festive families. I was like, Mom, can we
Speaker 1: go see Elf? And she was like, you know how
Speaker 1: I feel about that man? But her thing was too tall.
Speaker 1: I was like what she just was like, but there
Speaker 1: must have been a real reason, but she would just
Speaker 1: be like, too tall, We're not going my mom. My
Speaker 1: mom really didn't like an American Tale for some reason.
Speaker 1: I don't know why, and maybe maybe she felt that
Speaker 1: they were like clearly Jewish characters, but they were like
Speaker 1: Christian washed into it because there was like a five
Speaker 1: of the Christmas Mouth story or something. I kind of
Speaker 1: got that feeling. But she told me she I was like,
Speaker 1: I want to see five Will goes West, but she
Speaker 1: really didn't like an American tale and she said, no,
Speaker 1: we can't see that. It's it's going to be too
Speaker 1: gory and violent. I love a good mom. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: when you're later you're just like, oh, you just didn't
Speaker 1: want to go exactly exactly. So I just saw it today. Great, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw it when it came out in the theater
Speaker 1: possibly I can't remember, but within at least a year,
Speaker 1: but coming out I didn't exactly remember how I felt
Speaker 1: about it, except that the other day. You know, when
Speaker 1: like Netflix DVDs were popular and you would like rate
Speaker 1: what you thought of the DVD that you got. I
Speaker 1: just saw the other day that I had rated Elf
Speaker 1: one star out of five. So apparently I absolutely hated it,
Speaker 1: I first thought, because I didn't rewatch it at any
Speaker 1: point until just a couple of days ago. And um,
Speaker 1: I don't like it, But I have really good reasons
Speaker 1: and I can't wait to tell you them. So shall
Speaker 1: I do the recap? Yeah? Alrighty? So okay, Well, first
Speaker 1: of all, okay, a story about a naive guy who
Speaker 1: comes from a different part of the world and who
Speaker 1: longs to be accepted by a new family. What is
Speaker 1: this Paddington from a mile away that time? Okay? So um,
Speaker 1: we learned about elves in the North Pole who build
Speaker 1: toys for Santa. They work in Santa's workshop and one Christmas,
Speaker 1: while Santa is delivering presents at an orphanage. A baby
Speaker 1: crawls into a stack of toys, and he accidentally takes
Speaker 1: the baby with him to the North Pole. The baby
Speaker 1: remained silent for the entirety of the rest of the trip.
Speaker 1: That bothered me. One of the elves adopts the baby.
Speaker 1: His name is Papa Elf Hot Hot. What if you're
Speaker 1: just like my My name's Daddy. No, I'm single, I
Speaker 1: have no children. I liked that. And the baby gets
Speaker 1: named Buddy, and he grows up to be Will Ferrell,
Speaker 1: and um, he's he's not like the other elves. Um,
Speaker 1: he's tall, and he's not as good at making toys.
Speaker 1: And he eventually learned the truth that he is a
Speaker 1: human whose mother died and whose father is this like
Speaker 1: big shop publishing guy in New York City. So right
Speaker 1: at the bat, we have a weird Disney princess vibe
Speaker 1: about Buddy where they're just like mother character. We're not
Speaker 1: gonna want to bother with that. Let's get to two
Speaker 1: men in conflict as soon as possible. So his dad
Speaker 1: didn't even know that Buddy existed. So Buddy sets off
Speaker 1: to New York City to understand by the way they
Speaker 1: like they like, don't I feel like it's still really
Speaker 1: taboo to have to have somebody like have a child
Speaker 1: when they aren't married in movies. Have you noticed that,
Speaker 1: like they're still still this thing or they don't. They'll
Speaker 1: they'll have like a single parent in it, but they
Speaker 1: won't ever And they really like didn't touch on the fact.
Speaker 1: You know it's a family movie, but you know, you
Speaker 1: never knew that she existed. They never The way that
Speaker 1: they touch on that I think is really interesting. It's
Speaker 1: like very specifically avoidant of like these people had sex
Speaker 1: and they were really young, and she decided to keep
Speaker 1: the baby, but didn't community like that's that's like a
Speaker 1: complicated thing to to, you know, but they're trying to
Speaker 1: keep it like that's still such like a for some reason,
Speaker 1: it's still like a taboo subject, I think, And it
Speaker 1: totally ignores like the concept of like, well, she probably
Speaker 1: didn't tell him for a reason. What if he's a
Speaker 1: bad guy, Like there's I don't know that, And then
Speaker 1: you keep seeing the same picture of her, but he's
Speaker 1: always longingly like I wish my toxic father would you know,
Speaker 1: like spoon me. But you're like a woman has died,
Speaker 1: Will Ferrell, What are you doing? Buddy sets off to
Speaker 1: New York City to find his dad and to find
Speaker 1: himself and cool. Sorry okay, but the only world that
Speaker 1: he knows is the elf world. So he shows up,
Speaker 1: he walks, hear, he works, Does he walk through Canada?
Speaker 1: How is he not cold and dead? He also gets
Speaker 1: attacked by a raccoon. Do you do to elves? Get
Speaker 1: like inoculations against rabies like the ones that you give
Speaker 1: to your cats and dogs. He also survives entirely on sugar, Like,
Speaker 1: how is he not dead? What do the elves know
Speaker 1: that we don't about help and longitivity? Maybe that's why
Speaker 1: they keep the whole thing a secret, because they're afraid
Speaker 1: that they're going to like get you know, taken over
Speaker 1: for their secret. Right. Well, at one point, he says
Speaker 1: that his daddy Elf is like four hundred He's like,
Speaker 1: it took him four hundred nine years to figure out
Speaker 1: how to make blah blah blah. Like, so yeah, they've
Speaker 1: got like the elixir of life up there. Think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of frightening and amazing. Yeah it's Christmas magic. Okay,
Speaker 1: So that's that's our untapped resource, you know, or that
Speaker 1: they're they're renewable resources. Christmas. So he shows up and
Speaker 1: he's naive. He you know, he's still dressed as an elf,
Speaker 1: and he like thinks life is all about like hugs
Speaker 1: and candy canes and rainbows and the lack of knowledge
Speaker 1: of boundaries. Yes, So he shows up at his father's office,
Speaker 1: but his father, Walter Hobbs played by James con He's like,
Speaker 1: get out of here. I don't have no son. He's
Speaker 1: mean and he's on Santa's Naughty List, so that's why
Speaker 1: he's like, screw you, buddy. And then Buddy goes to
Speaker 1: a department store and he's are like, oh, I'll fit
Speaker 1: in here in Santa's like whatever, like North Pole Station.
Speaker 1: They yeah, he's basically at like Macy's, and they mistake
Speaker 1: him for being an employee there. So he just seamlessly
Speaker 1: integrates into that community. And that's where he meets Jovi,
Speaker 1: which is Zoe Deschanel's character Deschanel without bangs. It's confusing,
Speaker 1: I know. And she works there as an elf, and Buddy,
Speaker 1: here's Jovie singing a song. Baby it's cold outside, not
Speaker 1: just anywhere it's in the show. She's in the shower.
Speaker 1: We will, we'll talk about it. There's not time to
Speaker 1: get into it here. My blood went cult. So Santa
Speaker 1: comes into the store, but he's like, you're not the
Speaker 1: real Santa. They get into a fistfight. Buddy gets a
Speaker 1: restraining order filed against him, and then we meet Um
Speaker 1: Walter's wife and son, and we learned that maybe Walter
Speaker 1: isn't the most like attend to family man. But he
Speaker 1: does bail Buddy out of jail, and he's like, let's
Speaker 1: get this paternity test. Let's get this figured out. It
Speaker 1: turns out Buddy is his biological son, so he brings
Speaker 1: him home. That paternity test takes like two seconds. I
Speaker 1: think there's a missed opportunity for a really good Maury scene.
Speaker 1: There was, there really was. I think he would have
Speaker 1: done the cameo no problem. Oh yeah, yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: shame the doctor played the doctor though. So so Walter
Speaker 1: is not happy about like Buddy being in his life. Also,
Speaker 1: his brother Michael, who's like, I don't know, twelve or
Speaker 1: something like that, is also not pleased. But then there's
Speaker 1: a snowball fight and then Michael's like, oh wait, Buddy's cool. Um,
Speaker 1: and then he encouraged his buddy to ask out Jovi. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very like the like suddenly a twelve year old knows
Speaker 1: how adults were. He's like, oh, are you trying to
Speaker 1: get it in with so you're just like you you're twelve.
Speaker 1: Please stop. Later on, Walter takes Buddy to work with him,
Speaker 1: sends Buddy to like the mail room because Walter is
Speaker 1: like trying to fix this problem with the children's book
Speaker 1: at this publishing company, and he brings in Miles Finch,
Speaker 1: and Miles Finch is a little person who Buddy mistakes
Speaker 1: for an elf, and Miles understandably gets upset and storms
Speaker 1: out first that Peter Dinkledge. Yeah, Peter Dinklage kicking his
Speaker 1: ass A very satisfying scene to watch. He extremely wins
Speaker 1: that fight. Yes, So then Walter is furious and he's like, Buddy,
Speaker 1: get out of here. I don't care where you go,
Speaker 1: just leave my life. And then Buddy runs away, and
Speaker 1: then Michael comes in. He's like, I'm scared our son.
Speaker 1: Buddy ran away, And this is all happening in the
Speaker 1: middle of this big pitch meeting, and then Walter has
Speaker 1: to decide to like, is he going to choose his
Speaker 1: career or his family. Guess what I choose the family.
Speaker 1: This is all happening on Christmas Eve, by the way,
Speaker 1: Santa is out delivering presents, but there's no Christmas spirit
Speaker 1: because Buddy has no sense of belonging anymore, I guess.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of third act like sure that
Speaker 1: something about the sleigh isn't happening. It's powered by Christmas spirit,
Speaker 1: but nobody in New York believes in Christmas anymore or
Speaker 1: something right, and everyone watches the local news at the
Speaker 1: same time. You're just like, yeah, sure, whatever, we just
Speaker 1: got to get this lane. And everybody gets to the
Speaker 1: same spot in Manhattan within five minutes. My friend pointed
Speaker 1: that out when we were watching, and he was like, everybody,
Speaker 1: everybody is just they're like, you know, okay, as soon
Speaker 1: as I heard, and very very much like an improv scene,
Speaker 1: just leaping in, like you know. And then the second
Speaker 1: the dad sings, the plots resolved singing singing the power
Speaker 1: of music or something, but something Christmas cheers. That's way
Speaker 1: to spread Christmas cheer is singing loud hard disagree. So
Speaker 1: Buddy's all like I gotta save Christmas. And Michael and
Speaker 1: Walter show up to help. There's a guy who was
Speaker 1: actively harassing a reporter and he's like, you have a
Speaker 1: really nice mouth. Also, the other newscaster is harassing that reporter.
Speaker 1: He's like, sorry to interrupt your first big story, you dumbass,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to talk now, and then it cuts
Speaker 1: back to her and someone is harassing her. But then
Speaker 1: it's so weird the trajectory of that female newscaster. For
Speaker 1: the few times we see her, we're just like, who
Speaker 1: are you? Because it's like she's reporting the story, cut
Speaker 1: away it to her boss, who was like, don't listen
Speaker 1: to her. Then we see her with Michael Buddy's little
Speaker 1: brother and then he's like, all you wanted for Christmas
Speaker 1: was for your boyfriend to propose. And then she's like
Speaker 1: stop the cameras and she screams at a child, and
Speaker 1: it just like I don't know where I land on
Speaker 1: this lady. So basically after that, jovis like, oh, we
Speaker 1: gotta get Christmas cheer up and running again. So she
Speaker 1: starts to sing, even though she doesn't like to sing
Speaker 1: in public, but then everyone joins in and then the
Speaker 1: sleigh starts to work, and then Christmas is saved and
Speaker 1: then like the due mall of the story. Don't worry,
Speaker 1: I have a master's scream screen. Oh my god, because
Speaker 1: I feel ill. The family accepts him now, and he
Speaker 1: wrote a children Buddy wrote a children's book about himself
Speaker 1: self indulgent. Hello, Uh, way to blow your load on,
Speaker 1: like you know, on one thing, Like, how the hell
Speaker 1: are you gonna follow that up? Yeah? He should have
Speaker 1: made it a series, Yeah, idiot. Uh. And then he
Speaker 1: and Jovie get married, I guess, and have a baby,
Speaker 1: and then they go to visit Elf Daddy and that's
Speaker 1: the end of the movie. This is a fun movie
Speaker 1: where you're just like, you're like, is a woman going
Speaker 1: to appear in this movie at all? Is this a
Speaker 1: show shank situation? Like it takes a very long time
Speaker 1: for women to affect the plot at all. And I
Speaker 1: would argue that that even hardly happens. Yes, you're right, Well,
Speaker 1: let's go home. There's a lot of like implied women,
Speaker 1: or there's a lot of women who are like a
Speaker 1: woman gave birth to Buddy, we don't see her alive
Speaker 1: a photo of her. Well, even from the very beginning,
Speaker 1: like in the in Santa's Workshop, there are way more
Speaker 1: male elves than lady elves, and I think there's only
Speaker 1: one ELF woman who gets aligned. She yeah, and then
Speaker 1: she's like, buddy, you're awesome, and then she just disappeared.
Speaker 1: They're also they're also all white, I noticed, which is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've seen I feel like other depictions of elves I've
Speaker 1: seen have been like, like, no, there are multicultural elves,
Speaker 1: elves from different Yeah, it's supposed to be like a
Speaker 1: worldwide everyone, but this is like fashi elves just like yikes,
Speaker 1: And it makes me wonders since there are so few
Speaker 1: elf women. Earlier, like when the narrator is setting everything up,
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, there's only three jobs that are available
Speaker 1: to elves. It's either making shoes, baking cookies, or Santa's workshop.
Speaker 1: And it's like, okay, so does that mean all the
Speaker 1: elf women are baking cookies, like doing the domestic thing.
Speaker 1: I'm speculating here, but who's the elf Betty freedom, you know,
Speaker 1: stepping in? You know? Also its fucking unionized man, right,
Speaker 1: I mean there's only three jobs available for you? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there just aren't enough elf woman in the workforce, right, Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know they were so quick to adopt Buddy.
Speaker 1: I mean they needed more people in there, and they
Speaker 1: needed they needed Yeah, they needed hands. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a Smurfette principal thing where there's only and
Speaker 1: they all. I mean, you would think population would be
Speaker 1: an issue if everyone's living five hundred years, But I
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe some elves die very young. I don't
Speaker 1: know what age does elf menopause hit and then six
Speaker 1: h Yeah, like you start craving things that aren't sugar
Speaker 1: when you get et goo through elf menopause or something.
Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, it's very different. I'd like a detailed
Speaker 1: study of that. I do. I do enjoy that it
Speaker 1: was the elf daddy who like took the responsibility to
Speaker 1: adopt Buddy, because I feel like it could have easily
Speaker 1: been like the one elf woman you see takes on
Speaker 1: like the matron mother role. Sure, but that doesn't happen,
Speaker 1: and so we get a single dad. So yes, he's
Speaker 1: also funny, is very He has that kind of like
Speaker 1: we were just talking about SpongeBob, that kind of SpongeBob
Speaker 1: quality of like of not being overly masculine or just
Speaker 1: not being being kind of you know, well until he
Speaker 1: gets until he likes meets Jovi and and like disrespects
Speaker 1: people's boundaries in New York and stuff like. But at first,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, it's sweet. He's not doing things that
Speaker 1: are like traditionally gendered and it's it's kind of cute.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, he's he's really into giving people hugs
Speaker 1: and being sweet and giving compliments and things. You know, Okay,
Speaker 1: he should ask before he does. Yeah. Yeah, As it
Speaker 1: goes on and the same way, yeah, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like you definitely have like a cool version of masculinity
Speaker 1: presented here where he is never trying to wrong anyone ever,
Speaker 1: and like you know, comes from a place of love.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, oh, we have a consent issue here.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean it's because he's he is
Speaker 1: such a lovable character and like he I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't think he's too tall personally. I think he's
Speaker 1: just tall enough. Uh see. I had a different read
Speaker 1: on that, where he is like a very loving, accepting person,
Speaker 1: but once he gets into the real world, he is
Speaker 1: acting like a man baby. It's almost like the born
Speaker 1: Sexy Yesterday trope thing happening, but like born sexy yeah,
Speaker 1: non sexy yesterday. I'm sorry, but I mean he's not like,
Speaker 1: you know, a traditional like hot lady bombshell. Like he's
Speaker 1: not loud at any point, although he does expose himself
Speaker 1: to but he has like this childlike mind that I
Speaker 1: only have the patients for for about eleven seconds one star,
Speaker 1: which gets weird when you consider the romantic subplot of
Speaker 1: the movie where he has like a childlike understanding of
Speaker 1: the world and of everyone around him. But then he
Speaker 1: does like start to feel sexual feelings for a woman
Speaker 1: who reciprocates, but he has given her no reason other
Speaker 1: than the fact that he's like a nice guy, which
Speaker 1: is a good reason. But he's a baby. He has
Speaker 1: the mind of a baby, and she's like, oh, well
Speaker 1: he's hot, and so they're really is odd. Well, that's
Speaker 1: what That was one of my main issues with the
Speaker 1: movie in general, as you can remove the romantic subplot
Speaker 1: and nothing about the movie would change, Like if Zoe
Speaker 1: Deschanelle didn't sing acapella at the end of this movie,
Speaker 1: nothing would change. Uh. And that's I mean, I feel
Speaker 1: like that is such a I'm sure it was like
Speaker 1: you know, studio and of shoehorn In and he's got
Speaker 1: to fall in love, but they don't really give her
Speaker 1: anything of narrative impact to do other than be his
Speaker 1: wife eventually, which is too bad because there I think
Speaker 1: that there are so many interesting, good characters in this movie.
Speaker 1: But I agree with you that, like, like going straight
Speaker 1: to an adult relationship that leads to marriage what it
Speaker 1: appears to be very quickly, doesn't make a lot of
Speaker 1: sense for this character who has just entered the adult
Speaker 1: world for the first time, And it doesn't make a
Speaker 1: lot of sense for Jovi, who it's like, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: a nice guy, but he like came into a room
Speaker 1: while she was showering and began to sing the most
Speaker 1: problematic Christmas song available that for me is like enough
Speaker 1: reason to be like, yeah, I'm not going to date
Speaker 1: this person. So he comes into the locker room while
Speaker 1: she's showering and sings baby it's cold outside and growing
Speaker 1: up Jewish. This was I think the first time that
Speaker 1: I had heard that song, Like I was a teenager
Speaker 1: and it was the first time, like I probab they
Speaker 1: like harded in the background, but I I didn't know
Speaker 1: what it was. I didn't know the name of the song.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that I really did not know the lyrics,
Speaker 1: so this was like kind of a route awakening for
Speaker 1: me at sixteen and being like what the funk is
Speaker 1: this song? And like I'm sorry, like like like Christians,
Speaker 1: you know, I I know you only have like the
Speaker 1: two holidays, whereas we have like fifty you know, and
Speaker 1: and like I mean, Hanakah has really only lumped in
Speaker 1: with Christmas at all, Like we don't need hanaka songs
Speaker 1: and movies so much because it's actually a very minor holiday.
Speaker 1: The only reason that it's put together that that you
Speaker 1: like get exchange presents at all is because of capitalism
Speaker 1: and marketing and you know, putting these things in to
Speaker 1: make more money to market to more people. See some
Speaker 1: Jews in the audience nodding um and then but yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's and that's so it's it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: one of many holidays for us. I get that, like
Speaker 1: Christmas is like a big deal, but I don't get
Speaker 1: why you guys want to make Christmas sexy. Believe me,
Speaker 1: I am all for sexy things, Like sexiness has its own,
Speaker 1: has it, Like you know, there's a time and place
Speaker 1: for a lot of sexy things. And you know, I
Speaker 1: have nothing against sexiness, but like, Christmas isn't a sexy thing.
Speaker 1: And I don't know why this song about being cold
Speaker 1: and and you know this this playful creepiness where it's
Speaker 1: actually written as the parts are the parts for that
Speaker 1: song are actually called wolf and mouse. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you guys knew that. Yeah, And and there's so
Speaker 1: many people now who there there's there's a backlash to,
Speaker 1: and then there's the backlash to the backlash, and then
Speaker 1: there was the backlash of the backlash of the backlash.
Speaker 1: But just like overall, like fuck that song. It's not
Speaker 1: a good song. And Christmas isn't sexy. There's nothing sexy
Speaker 1: about hanging around with your family. I love my family,
Speaker 1: I'm close with my family, but there is nothing sexy
Speaker 1: about that. Yes, agree, I totally agree with my family sexy,
Speaker 1: no kidding. One star. So the shower scene is troubling,
Speaker 1: and then a moment the worst leaning up to the
Speaker 1: shower scene is also troubling because it's Buddy seeing Jovi
Speaker 1: for the first time. There's like this like angelic lighting
Speaker 1: that lights up from the Christmas tree and he's like oh,
Speaker 1: and then he goes over to her and tries to
Speaker 1: initiate a conversation and a few different times she either says,
Speaker 1: please stop talking to me, go away, thanks, but I
Speaker 1: don't sing. He's like trying to get her to sing
Speaker 1: or something, and then he like blocks her from being
Speaker 1: able to move. She's like trying to get past him
Speaker 1: and he's like blocking her path. And then just a
Speaker 1: few scenes later is the shower scene where he hears
Speaker 1: her singing goes into the women's locker room. Also there
Speaker 1: the Elves get a locker room, Like what is this place?
Speaker 1: I was just like, this is a really nice shower
Speaker 1: they actually they do. They have and and one thing
Speaker 1: that I noticed there is that she goes, why are
Speaker 1: you bothering me? Did Crumpet put you up to this?
Speaker 1: And I and I realized that was David Sedaris's name.
Speaker 1: When he was in Santa Land, he wrote a book,
Speaker 1: you know, the Santaland Diaries, and he wrote that into
Speaker 1: a lot of his writings, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: Amy Sadaris, his sister is in this movie. That's probably
Speaker 1: a shout out to to David saderas a lot of
Speaker 1: the you know, New York comedians knew him, and uh
Speaker 1: and yeah, but yeah, he has written about, and he
Speaker 1: has says that they did actually get locker rooms to
Speaker 1: change in. Interesting. Yeah, and because they had like their
Speaker 1: special uniforms that were given to them, you had to
Speaker 1: you know, you had to wear what it was you
Speaker 1: would change and you know, they probably weren't as nice
Speaker 1: as the ones they're also Zoeya Shanell says she's showering
Speaker 1: there because her water was turned off. But like it
Speaker 1: shows her apartment later and that is a nice apartment
Speaker 1: by New York standards. That is a nice big apartment
Speaker 1: to be living in, you know, on your own, right.
Speaker 1: But she's eating ramen, so she's poor, yes, But because
Speaker 1: he has such a childlike understanding of the world, he
Speaker 1: doesn't realize that he's like invading this space. Apparently doesn't
Speaker 1: realize that she is naked in the shower and then
Speaker 1: just like is sitting near where she is and then
Speaker 1: sings along with her. So that's horrible and scary. Um.
Speaker 1: She does confront him a few scenes later where she
Speaker 1: but that scene ends with her being like because she
Speaker 1: starts by saying like, hey, I need to talk to you,
Speaker 1: and then she asked him, why did you do that?
Speaker 1: And he's like, what I just love Christmas. And then
Speaker 1: she's like Okay, it's like that is they could have
Speaker 1: cut the first two scenes and replaced it with anything
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, to establish their relationship because like,
Speaker 1: because watching this, I the thing is that, like I know,
Speaker 1: there's the obnoxious like you know, this person makes you
Speaker 1: see the world in like a different way. But like
Speaker 1: I've got to say that like being like a grumpy,
Speaker 1: morbid person myself, Like I have dated a lot of
Speaker 1: people where like they came in and they were like,
Speaker 1: let's have fun and I was like the grudge and
Speaker 1: be like okay, and then I was like, alright, fun,
Speaker 1: I'm actually having fun. Okay, this is a good time.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's actually like that's happened to me in
Speaker 1: my life, where like, you know, you meet somebody cheerful
Speaker 1: and in affect your life in a positive way, Like
Speaker 1: that is a thing that happens. It's a stupid trope,
Speaker 1: but it is a thing that has happened in my
Speaker 1: life at least, And you know it could have been
Speaker 1: done in a way without him creeping on her, right,
Speaker 1: But the fact that so many romantic storylines in movies
Speaker 1: start out this way where it's like she's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: get away from me, don't talk to me. The most
Speaker 1: egregious example of this, I think, at least of the
Speaker 1: movies that we've covered, was The Notebook, where like Rachel
Speaker 1: McAdam says, no, like kill myself if you don't go
Speaker 1: on a little date with me. You know. I had
Speaker 1: a guy come up to me. I was I was
Speaker 1: actually I think my friend is in the audience tonight,
Speaker 1: who was with me. We were in Europe together after
Speaker 1: my as she's smiling, I can see her. Uh. And
Speaker 1: I was in Vienna and we were like separated for
Speaker 1: a few days and I went off on my own
Speaker 1: to this park and there was like a ferris wheel nearby,
Speaker 1: and this guy came by and asked me, asked me
Speaker 1: to go out with him and go to a party
Speaker 1: with him, and I was like no, and I told
Speaker 1: him over and over again. I was like, no, I
Speaker 1: have a boyfriend's no, I'm not interested. I'm not interested.
Speaker 1: And he tried to get really philosophical and ME was like,
Speaker 1: but you just don't know where life is going to
Speaker 1: leave to you. And I think eventually I just walked away.
Speaker 1: He never did anything like physically threatening. He was just
Speaker 1: it was just kind of stupid. But like I told
Speaker 1: some people about it afterwards and they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: like the Notebook, Oh that romantic fan Pi. That's yeah,
Speaker 1: that movie is just like The Notebooks a whole other situation. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's like I'm gonna kill myself if you
Speaker 1: don't be my girlfriend. Well yeah, see, I I had
Speaker 1: like a really complicated relationship with that movie because I
Speaker 1: was like so much about this as upsetting, but I
Speaker 1: had like a really big crush on Rachel McAdams, so yeah,
Speaker 1: so but then I watched her in other things, so
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. The thing that's especially troubling about this
Speaker 1: movie is that it is appropriate for children, So like
Speaker 1: kids are seeing this and they're like, oh, that's how
Speaker 1: you ask a woman out. You wear her down until
Speaker 1: she finally says yes, and then that works. And that's yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a lot of it is. It's
Speaker 1: like super trophy. And I would almost attribute it to
Speaker 1: bad writing. But it's bad writing because so many people
Speaker 1: had already done uh freaky not good relationship that teaches
Speaker 1: you to not respect what a woman is telling you.
Speaker 1: I don't think I mean, I don't think it's a
Speaker 1: badly written movie, I think, But I do, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I do think that there was I think that there
Speaker 1: was also kind of a thing at the time. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm also defending it because it was a Jewish
Speaker 1: man who wrote this, and I like feel for my
Speaker 1: my fellow Jewish film people making and being in Christmas movies. Um,
Speaker 1: but now I feel like it was just kind of
Speaker 1: a weird common trope. At the time, the early two thousand's,
Speaker 1: there was just this huge, like plethora of romantic comedies
Speaker 1: and that was in like every single one of them. Well,
Speaker 1: this is the year being worn down. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: this is the same year is Love Actually comes out?
Speaker 1: Love Actually? And I think the Notebook too there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's like all in the same
Speaker 1: year that these come out. So that's not the greatest
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I mean, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: a badly written movie. I think that that's the romantic
Speaker 1: plot is was not written very thoughtfully, because there is
Speaker 1: a version of this story that Zoey Deschanel's character goes
Speaker 1: on to do anything else other than show up in
Speaker 1: the last scene and be like nol la la la
Speaker 1: la la la yeah, and so so in now it
Speaker 1: it's just if you take her character out of the movie,
Speaker 1: how much changes. I feel like Buddy's character changes enough
Speaker 1: just with his own family that you can sort of
Speaker 1: get to the same place, which just to me is like, well,
Speaker 1: and she's not given enough to do and she's just
Speaker 1: so underwritten as a character that when he does ask
Speaker 1: her out, we she says yes, but we don't know
Speaker 1: why because she's so underwritten that she has nothing in
Speaker 1: common with him because we don't know anything about her.
Speaker 1: And then okay, so I want to talk about the
Speaker 1: scene where he does ask her out because his brother
Speaker 1: is with him, this twelve year old kid, and he's like, hey,
Speaker 1: Buddy asked her out on a date to eat food.
Speaker 1: And if she says yes, you're in. It's like a
Speaker 1: secret code girls have. And I think that's meant to
Speaker 1: be a joke. Yeah, I think, but yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: implying that a woman's saying yes a K giving consent
Speaker 1: is code for yes yes yes means yes. I guess.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like it sounds like it might not
Speaker 1: be a code. I was like trying to process, like
Speaker 1: is this meant to be like a really funny joke
Speaker 1: or is it just like, look at this dumb kid
Speaker 1: who doesn't understand like dating yet. But like I was
Speaker 1: just like, what a weird line dad into the movie.
Speaker 1: I do think that that was supposed to be a
Speaker 1: joke in the like whole like Michael's like the child
Speaker 1: what is beyond his years and He's gonna show buddy
Speaker 1: how to because I'm like, because Michael's dating all the time,
Speaker 1: he's twelve, you know. Well, I mean that's kind of
Speaker 1: the theme of the movie. I feel like that's the
Speaker 1: theme of a lot of Christmas movies, is is you know,
Speaker 1: the innocent will lead us, and there's this message of
Speaker 1: maintain that childhood innocence and also just believe. It's interesting
Speaker 1: to me that so many Christmas movies have the message
Speaker 1: of just believe in everything will come to you. You know.
Speaker 1: It's this you know, just believe and believe in Santa Claus.
Speaker 1: And I always thought that was kind of weird from
Speaker 1: an outsider's perspective, you know, once I was sort of
Speaker 1: old enough to take a look at that, you know,
Speaker 1: and people would point that out in Christmas movie that
Speaker 1: I was in. I was like, yeah, I guess it
Speaker 1: is kind of weird that you are telling children. The
Speaker 1: message here is like over and over again, believe, believe, believe, believe,
Speaker 1: and then later on it's like, oh, by the way,
Speaker 1: that's a lie. By the way, that's not true. And
Speaker 1: I mean that's not to say, like, of course, I
Speaker 1: do think that there is value in in you know,
Speaker 1: celebrating Christmas with Santa Claus and you know, having these
Speaker 1: sort of magical moments with children, Like I don't think
Speaker 1: these are a bad thing at all, but I do
Speaker 1: think that it's interesting that the message that always comes
Speaker 1: across is like stay young, stay innocent, and always believe
Speaker 1: unless we are in like the third act of a
Speaker 1: Christmas movie right now, and Kurt Russell as hot Santa
Speaker 1: is gonna like burst in and be like we need
Speaker 1: you to believe or else we're kind of and then
Speaker 1: the three of us need to be like, okay, we
Speaker 1: believe and yeah, you're right. Also, like, it always annoyed
Speaker 1: me that, like it annoyed me that Santa got so
Speaker 1: much credit for going all over the world and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he probably skips like the majority like Buddhist and Muslim countries,
Speaker 1: you know, so he probably he has he stops a
Speaker 1: few places, you know, and then and then gets in
Speaker 1: his sleigh. It's not it's it's all the Christian families.
Speaker 1: It's not you know, he's he's slacking off. It's not
Speaker 1: the whole world. Also, Santa Santa as he's presented in
Speaker 1: this movie is kind of all over the place where
Speaker 1: Santa like brags to Buddy several times, like I know
Speaker 1: how the world works. I'm fucking Santa. But then when
Speaker 1: Buddy is like, cool, I'm going to the world, Santa
Speaker 1: gives him, oh advice, He's just like, cool, good luck. Also,
Speaker 1: that famous race sucks. It sucks. I got food poisoning
Speaker 1: from there, anyway, go on, yeah, I don't know that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then at the end Santa, when Santa needs helped,
Speaker 1: when Santa x Mocina falls out of the sky, he
Speaker 1: is like, hey, everyone fixed my sleigh. I was like,
Speaker 1: what was your plan? B sir? Like what how would
Speaker 1: we have gotten this up? So, like, Buddy travels to
Speaker 1: New York City from the North Pole on foot, and
Speaker 1: it seems like Christmas is only like a week or
Speaker 1: two later. Why didn't he just wait and then Santa
Speaker 1: could give him a ride? Like it was something he
Speaker 1: had to do on his own. Come on, yes. Also,
Speaker 1: can we talk about how um naughty has exactly two
Speaker 1: connotations and it's Christmas if you're naughty or nice, or
Speaker 1: it's sexy. So actually I think Christmas is sexy. But
Speaker 1: actually this is one of the reasons I think that
Speaker 1: Christmas is creepy, and maybe that's why I don't like
Speaker 1: the word naughty anyway, Okay, when we talk about the
Speaker 1: surprise kiss that happens because Buddy and Jovi go on
Speaker 1: their date, they're ice skating, he surprised kisses her on
Speaker 1: the cheek, but then she's like you missed, and he's
Speaker 1: like what, and then she grabs his face and then
Speaker 1: kisses him on the lips. So she was, as was
Speaker 1: the audience. We are allowed to believe into him kissing her,
Speaker 1: but he just like lunged at her initially, like I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's the whole thing of him being sexual,
Speaker 1: even though we've only seen him act like a child
Speaker 1: up until that point. He's like eating pop tarts and
Speaker 1: like gum drops on spaghetti with maple syrup and chocolates
Speaker 1: like he's a baby. And it always appear to me
Speaker 1: in movies where they when they sexualize either children or
Speaker 1: childlike characters. You know, that always bothers me. It is weird.
Speaker 1: I mean like weird. Did Buddy learn to kiss? You know? Also,
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's thirty right. Being in the North
Speaker 1: Pole does not explain why he has a baby's brain, Like,
Speaker 1: there are the other elves with him seem to be
Speaker 1: regular adults who can like function the world as adults,
Speaker 1: so it does well, why is he a baby? I
Speaker 1: think that in this movie the something that is confusing,
Speaker 1: but it's like he's so fun to watch that we
Speaker 1: don't question it. Is that, like happiness and stupidity are
Speaker 1: conflated completely. He's happy, so he must be idiot. He
Speaker 1: can't even read. Yeah, yeah, Like you're like, oh, it
Speaker 1: works for the character, but then when you bring him
Speaker 1: out in the world, you're like, wait, I thought he
Speaker 1: was just happy when he was just happy and too
Speaker 1: big for the chairs. But there are some female characters
Speaker 1: in this movie that I like, but they are not
Speaker 1: given a lot to do. Um. One of them is
Speaker 1: a Airiss, the secretary. She's who you here talking on
Speaker 1: the phone to a friend saying that she she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, deb I've never declaude kittens before, but
Speaker 1: I guess I can do it. Like I want a
Speaker 1: movie about her. And and this is Amy Sadaris, so
Speaker 1: she probably came up with that on the fly, which
Speaker 1: it is her talking to another woman. Um. And and
Speaker 1: you know, imagine if it this this movie barely kind
Speaker 1: of sort of passes, but only because of that was
Speaker 1: she probably just made up? Um. But there's also there's
Speaker 1: also I also like Mary stein Virgin's character. I like
Speaker 1: Mary stein Virgin in general. I think, yeah, I love
Speaker 1: her too. There is a lot of actors in this
Speaker 1: movie that I really love. But she she is very
Speaker 1: okay and excited and happy about Buddy being there. She's
Speaker 1: not like, he's not my son, I don't want him here.
Speaker 1: He She is very encouraging. She's like, I can't wait
Speaker 1: to meet your son. It's so sad, but so beautiful
Speaker 1: that this happened, you know where. Let's make him a
Speaker 1: part of the family. So there isn't this evil stepmother trope.
Speaker 1: Just nice, it's this very warm, welcoming one. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: would have been an easy choice to make her like
Speaker 1: a very shrewy like I'm jealous and I don't want
Speaker 1: this strange man from the woman that you've fucked earlier
Speaker 1: to be in my house. Also, she talks a lot
Speaker 1: about her job. She's like, I have an accounts meeting
Speaker 1: or an accounting meeting that day. She's got her own career, right,
Speaker 1: we don't really know she's There's one time she's like,
Speaker 1: I have to do the budgets this, that's what it is.
Speaker 1: Like yep, sure, because he was like, you stay home
Speaker 1: and take care of Buddy, because James con no, no, no, budgets. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's like, I stand corrected. But that's another thing
Speaker 1: with Buddy's character where he has such a bizarre blind
Speaker 1: spot to adult women in general, where he never questions
Speaker 1: like what went on with my biological mom? That's never
Speaker 1: really a question that's raised. Also, elves know what death
Speaker 1: is like? Is this going to be a shock for him? Uh?
Speaker 1: And then with Mary stein Bergin's character, she is showing
Speaker 1: him much more love and acceptance and affection. And it's
Speaker 1: not that he responds to that negatively, but he's just
Speaker 1: sort of like, cool, thanks, here's some spaghetti. And but
Speaker 1: like he he doesn't get attached to her in a
Speaker 1: way that he gets he really only but with the
Speaker 1: exception of Zoe Deschanelle's character only gets attached to like
Speaker 1: other men around him. Maybe he's also attracted to people
Speaker 1: who don't like him, because Zoe Does's character doesn't like
Speaker 1: him at first. He's just kind of like, I don't understand,
Speaker 1: you know, he he but it's it's it's not exactly healthy.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I feel like I'm totally over analyzing this.
Speaker 1: But you know, let's armchair diagnosed buddy. Well, that's a
Speaker 1: thing about this movie is that mental health is treated
Speaker 1: really in a strange and mishandled way, where like people
Speaker 1: keep saying the buddy is insane or that he's chemically imbalanced.
Speaker 1: That phrase gets thrown around and then the doctor character
Speaker 1: played by Jon Favreau says something like, oh, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: probably reverting to this like stage of blah blah blah whatever.
Speaker 1: Just take him home and he'll probably drop the whole
Speaker 1: act after a while. And it's like, I'm sorry, that's
Speaker 1: your medical advice, doctor, Okay, uh yeah. Dr Jon Favre
Speaker 1: prescribes like love, You're just like alright, cool. That feels
Speaker 1: like a very two thousand three thing. Now, that was
Speaker 1: very much you know, the age of the secret and
Speaker 1: just like just be better about it and you'll be better,
Speaker 1: you know, just to be better about it. And yeah,
Speaker 1: this is such a because I was like, oh, two thousands,
Speaker 1: it is such like a Bush era movie in general,
Speaker 1: because you're like, okay, well everyone's white and uh, and
Speaker 1: that we do see a black Santa. We do see
Speaker 1: a black Santa boss at the department store because they
Speaker 1: have to fire the other Santa who gets into a fight,
Speaker 1: and then he assumes the role at Santa. Will Farrell
Speaker 1: was like in every movie in those days, like he
Speaker 1: really was. I remember like all of us joking like
Speaker 1: you know when we were I don't know, remember having
Speaker 1: like a joke with my friends like when we really
Speaker 1: tired it from school, being like wish we could have
Speaker 1: whatever Will Ferrell is having. I don't know. This is
Speaker 1: what theater and film majors, you know. I think it's funny,
Speaker 1: I guess. But yeah, because he was he was just
Speaker 1: in everything in those days. He was in. He would
Speaker 1: be in like five movies a year, and it was
Speaker 1: just like this is this is it? Yeah, there's another
Speaker 1: quick point. And I wanted to make about so towards
Speaker 1: the end um, whenever they're trying to prove that Santa
Speaker 1: is real in like they're all everyone's in Central Park
Speaker 1: and Michael gets ahold of Santa's list of naughty people
Speaker 1: and nice people too, and um, he starts treating from
Speaker 1: it on the air. So he's going through and he
Speaker 1: was like, this girl wants a pop up girl's place that,
Speaker 1: this boy wants an electric guitar. This girl wants a
Speaker 1: dog called Susie, talks a lot, and then this boy
Speaker 1: wants talking a lot. Uh, this boy wants a pair
Speaker 1: of like Nike shoes. This grown woman which we talked
Speaker 1: about once, Tiffany engagement ring and her boyfriend to stopped
Speaker 1: dragging his feet and to commit already. So it's he's
Speaker 1: like very gendered like toys, where like the boys want
Speaker 1: like the tough, traditionally masculine toys and the girls all
Speaker 1: want like dolls or um. And not to like disparage
Speaker 1: any of that, but it is so again you're just like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're not thinking above what the normal thing would be here.
Speaker 1: And then the one guy who they're like, oh, this
Speaker 1: guy wants a spa thing, and it cuts to a
Speaker 1: grown man and then like everyone turns to him and
Speaker 1: they're like, Oh, you want to relax, you fucking and
Speaker 1: that's like it's also the age of the metrosexual too,
Speaker 1: like that was the thing you had like straight men
Speaker 1: talking about getting pedicures in you know, in People magazine
Speaker 1: all the time. So it was a little weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like the one time that there was like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna like not adhere to this like rigid gender
Speaker 1: toy norm thing is like a guy who wants like
Speaker 1: a and everyone's like, what a fucking disgusting sick. There's
Speaker 1: like a few moments that I think sort of fall
Speaker 1: under the same umbrella that happened between Buddy and his
Speaker 1: dad a few times where it's weird because like with Buddy,
Speaker 1: once he's in New York, everything has to be like,
Speaker 1: well there was a boundary issue there too. But with
Speaker 1: the dad, there's times where he's like and then we
Speaker 1: could hold hands and then we could cuddle, and the
Speaker 1: dad's like, no, I would never cuddle with my son,
Speaker 1: and it's just like very again, it's like the gender
Speaker 1: norms of male affection works with handshakes and that's it.
Speaker 1: You can't spoon your son. I mean, the movie does
Speaker 1: end with with Buddy sitting on his adoptive father's lap.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean never had an issue with it.
Speaker 1: Daddy Elf was always very affectionate, but it was crushing
Speaker 1: Daddy Elf sounds yeah, it sounds like a wine. Oh
Speaker 1: that was my question. Okay, as it pertains to Buddy's
Speaker 1: understanding of sexuality, So elves, how much are they fucking right?
Speaker 1: Because they live a long time. Maybe they're not super
Speaker 1: horny because species wise, they don't need to stay with me.
Speaker 1: They don't because they don't need to reproduce as much.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're not as horny than people with less time.
Speaker 1: So like, how like how sea turtles are like the
Speaker 1: like the land turtles only funck like like once every
Speaker 1: you know, ten years or something, because you're like they're like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I've got time. I don't need to be
Speaker 1: frantically fucking all the time. I'm a turtle. So I'm
Speaker 1: getting closer. So I think why Buddy has the brain
Speaker 1: of a baby is because elves live a thousand years,
Speaker 1: and so if he's thirty, he's basically three, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So he's like la la la, because
Speaker 1: the elves when they're thirty, they're like, we're not going
Speaker 1: to be fucking for like, you know, for for at
Speaker 1: least a century plus. What my original question was was,
Speaker 1: has Buddy seen porn? Like elf porn? It would have
Speaker 1: to be elf born. I mean, I don't know what
Speaker 1: else it would be unless I don't know. That's my
Speaker 1: I guess that's his understanding of sexuality, because he does
Speaker 1: marry the first woman he meets. Yeah, what was that conversation?
Speaker 1: What was his understanding? I don't know. I get, well,
Speaker 1: it's the born sexy Yesterday thing again. She has to
Speaker 1: teach him how to sex and then he's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's Mary. I don't know if that's responsible. I don't know.
Speaker 1: My only question was was their porn? Okay? Well, but
Speaker 1: no one has that answer. Does anyone have any other
Speaker 1: things they want to talk about? I didn't want to say. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I I that this movie was both written and directed
Speaker 1: by Jewish people, which I kind of find interesting. And
Speaker 1: but I mean, if you actually look at it, like
Speaker 1: most of the songs, like most of the best Christmas
Speaker 1: songs were also written, like like Urban Berlin and you
Speaker 1: know Ruth Red Red Nose Reindeer, all these songs were
Speaker 1: written by Jewish people, So like it is kind of Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's kind of funny and kind of
Speaker 1: strange that that, like this movie where it's all about
Speaker 1: Christmas spirit. Christmas Spirit is was written by by people
Speaker 1: who like had rabbi's performed their weddings and stuff. But
Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't know. I I that I found
Speaker 1: I think very interesting. Oh also Peter, Yeah, the thing
Speaker 1: with Peter, the scene with Peter Dinklage where they're just
Speaker 1: like making fun of him, where Buddy just keeps calling
Speaker 1: him an elf, like over and over again. Like even
Speaker 1: in like two thousand and three, I was like, this
Speaker 1: is not this isn't cool. Yeah, isn't funny. No, it's
Speaker 1: not funny. And then then it's like okay, I mean
Speaker 1: the Peter dinklich character wins the fight and says everything
Speaker 1: that the audience is even though he's he comes in
Speaker 1: hot of like I fuck more than you'll fucking your life,
Speaker 1: where you're just like whoa now starts every argument that way? Uh?
Speaker 1: But I yeah, I I couldn't make heads or tails
Speaker 1: of that scene. Yeah, Like that would have been insensitive
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three, and now it just is
Speaker 1: like who what whose idea was this? And what did
Speaker 1: it add Yeah, at the very least, buddies insensitive comments
Speaker 1: go challenged by the person that he's directing them toward.
Speaker 1: But it sucks that like the one time you get
Speaker 1: representation on screen of a little person, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're enough, it's the joke. Yeah, And Peter dinklis has
Speaker 1: been very good about saying like, I don't never want
Speaker 1: to play Elves. I want to play these characters that
Speaker 1: are you know, where they're either you know, actual people,
Speaker 1: they're not. It's not a joking thing where it's not
Speaker 1: treated in this certain way or it's addressed, but it's
Speaker 1: an addressed in an in an honest and open way
Speaker 1: and not you know and not like this. So I
Speaker 1: do think it's interesting that that he chose this movie,
Speaker 1: But I mean, like that's his bardom, that's his choice.
Speaker 1: And and I love see I love Peter English, so
Speaker 1: I love seeing him in anything like I don't know
Speaker 1: if you always saw that meme where there it's just
Speaker 1: the Game of Thrones theme, but it's just the words
Speaker 1: Peter Dankledge song to the theme Dinklage Peter dlishe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love that meme because I love Peter d Engklige. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean I do remember thinking when like
Speaker 1: he said, like I never do do these things. I
Speaker 1: was like, I wonder how he feels about ELF in retrospect,
Speaker 1: kind of like the way that Viola Davis has said,
Speaker 1: like she feels conflicted about the help and you know,
Speaker 1: something like that. I was always like, I wonder if
Speaker 1: he if he you know, I mean he does get
Speaker 1: to be strong and kick Will Ferrell's ass. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I did. I regret everything I said yesterday.
Speaker 1: So I'm sure like people who have done things, you know,
Speaker 1: from the early two thousand's, and they might do it
Speaker 1: differently today. It's just yeah that I mean, I was
Speaker 1: in some movies in the early two thousand's that yeah,
Speaker 1: so I completely understand now I'm kidding that here. I
Speaker 1: had a great time making them. Blah blah blah blah
Speaker 1: blah represent represent explanation. Um I did. It's true, I did,
Speaker 1: even if I wasn't done always the best movies. But yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: go on, But that I don't know that moment, just
Speaker 1: like it is so bizarre because most of the like
Speaker 1: quote unquote misunderstandings that Buddy has in the real world
Speaker 1: are usually pretty innocent and it you know, it's not
Speaker 1: always the greatest joke of your life, but you're like,
Speaker 1: he don't understand how doors work. He crazy man. And
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden it's like, but what if
Speaker 1: he did this very offensive thing? But we still love
Speaker 1: him so much, and it just is, it's such. It
Speaker 1: was just a strange choice, especially like that role was
Speaker 1: written specifically as a cast a little person. It's not
Speaker 1: a little person, just who can exist in the world
Speaker 1: as a normal person. That role was written so that
Speaker 1: he could then be made fun of, so I mean,
Speaker 1: and Peter Nichols has been in many other movies where
Speaker 1: that's not the case, so that's good, But for this movie,
Speaker 1: that's the scenario, and it's you know, not the best.
Speaker 1: I hope his residuals are good. They are because, as
Speaker 1: I told you, Christmas movies, they pay love it um
Speaker 1: any other any other thoughts. There is a really good
Speaker 1: cast in this movie, Like that's that's a thing. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of really good actors in I forgot that
Speaker 1: Amy Sadaris was in it, and she's one of my
Speaker 1: strangers with Candy. I don't know if anyone's seen it
Speaker 1: but that's like one of the big shows ever and
Speaker 1: she is phenomenal in it, but too bad that she
Speaker 1: gets maybe a minute and thirty seconds of screen time,
Speaker 1: Like she hardly has any bearing on the story. She's
Speaker 1: I think she's like the one woman working at the
Speaker 1: office there. Yeah, there's there's two women. There's like a
Speaker 1: woman that he compliments wearing a purple dress. Wearing a
Speaker 1: purple dress, yes, um, but yeah, she's she's one of
Speaker 1: two women that work in that office, which I mean
Speaker 1: that is not true of publishing. I've got to tell
Speaker 1: you you go to publishing and it's like I love
Speaker 1: going to my publisher's office because it was just like
Speaker 1: a bunch of like short women in uh like sweaters
Speaker 1: that were just covered in cat and dog hair. I
Speaker 1: was just like, I love you guys. You are my people,
Speaker 1: especially children's publishing. Yeah, I'm like, why was this? I
Speaker 1: did appreciate seeing an older white male character who was
Speaker 1: just blatantly horrible at his job and should have been fired. Like,
Speaker 1: we don't very frequently get to see mediocrity on full display.
Speaker 1: And I was like, we do, but it's not acknowledge exactly.
Speaker 1: They're like, well, of course, he has this job. As
Speaker 1: one of my favorite tropes ever is uh the story
Speaker 1: within the story and everybody's like, wow, this is the
Speaker 1: most amazing thing ever where people will be like this
Speaker 1: story or this movie is just fantastic, and it's like,
Speaker 1: of course they think the author wrote them both. You know,
Speaker 1: like like everybody's just so into the story. So I do,
Speaker 1: I do. I've kind of find it funny that it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, he made millions, you know with Buddy the
Speaker 1: Elf the book right, which is which is such a
Speaker 1: great story. I'd watch a movie about it and go
Speaker 1: see a musical or see a musical about it. Well,
Speaker 1: let's take some questions or comments from the audience, if
Speaker 1: we've got any, Yeah, come on down so you can
Speaker 1: be on the mic. Um, I'm curious to hear what
Speaker 1: you guys think about that special Someone joke because I
Speaker 1: feel like they were kind of making fun of women's
Speaker 1: sexuality within that joke when Buddy gave that lingerie to
Speaker 1: his dad, which was like really uncomfortable in all sense
Speaker 1: of worn. Clearly Buddy hasn't seen porn. There's my answer. No,
Speaker 1: But also maybe elf sexy stuff is different. Maybe it
Speaker 1: is right. So the joke is that he sees in
Speaker 1: the store like a sign that's like get this for
Speaker 1: your someone special, and it's like sexy lingerie. Uh, and
Speaker 1: then he gives it to his dad because again, he
Speaker 1: has the brain of a child, and he has no
Speaker 1: understanding of sexuality or that that would not be an
Speaker 1: appropriate gift to give his father. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's making fun of women's sexuality
Speaker 1: so much is that it's making fun of his inability
Speaker 1: to understand anything about the world. But the fact that
Speaker 1: it is like a sexy woman's garment is the butt
Speaker 1: of the joke. So that at the end you see
Speaker 1: it on the chair next to Mary's Team Virgin, So
Speaker 1: he probably passed it on. But I always wondered, like
Speaker 1: she think, yeah, like like you might have this like
Speaker 1: love actually moment where she comes across this this nightgown
Speaker 1: and is like is this for me? Or is this
Speaker 1: for someone else? Or is this you know? And but
Speaker 1: he's just very lucky that he chose her her size,
Speaker 1: because that could have led to some like like anxiety
Speaker 1: and doubt and confusion and like disbelieve in, you know,
Speaker 1: in their marriage, which already was like not the most,
Speaker 1: you know, happy and healthy, it seems. I mean the
Speaker 1: first scene when he comes home and he's like I'm
Speaker 1: not eating with you and leaves and she's like okay,
Speaker 1: and then the sun is like can I leave as well?
Speaker 1: I was like, poor Mary has been here for a
Speaker 1: minute and everyone she's way too accommodating, especially to her,
Speaker 1: like she's really shitty husband who's a bad husband and
Speaker 1: a bad father and and bad at his job. He's
Speaker 1: really not good at much. But she's I feel like
Speaker 1: so underwritten that she was like, well, what, everything's fine?
Speaker 1: So Christmas? Any any other thoughts questions? Yeah, come on down. Um,
Speaker 1: since this movie is severely lacking in diversity, who would
Speaker 1: you cast as Alfred Molina? Thank you for asking. Um.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of opinions. I think that Alfred Molina,
Speaker 1: you know, could have been Buddy. Obviously, he could have
Speaker 1: been buddy. He can play anything, right. Uh oh, he
Speaker 1: could have been daddy help easily. But what I think
Speaker 1: is the best solution is to cast him as James
Speaker 1: CON's son. That would be the ideal that they're like,
Speaker 1: oh here's my son, Michael. He's twelve. Alfred Molina is
Speaker 1: not even doing an American accent, just bully Brenda. She's like, hello,
Speaker 1: my name is Michael. I'm surprised you didn't. I'm surprised
Speaker 1: you didn't say Santa yea. I well, no, I have
Speaker 1: to cast him as Santa in Santa University, so I
Speaker 1: can't have him being associated with another Santa franchise. That's
Speaker 1: just good business. So but yeah, no, I think he
Speaker 1: would play I think, you know, we know he can
Speaker 1: play anything, so let's see if he can a twelve
Speaker 1: year old. Great question, Thank you for any others? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: where hi? I was wondering what you all thought about
Speaker 1: feminist icon raccoon who attacks Buddy good call, good call?
Speaker 1: First of all, how many nipples does a raccoon have? Eight, ten, twelve?
Speaker 1: I don't know, we don't know. I don't know what
Speaker 1: if it's just one? Does any animal? Does any animal
Speaker 1: have one? I don't think so. I think it's always even,
Speaker 1: it's always sets. They come in sets. But well, your question,
Speaker 1: what do I think of him? I think that indeed,
Speaker 1: femtast icon, maybe even queer icon. I think that the
Speaker 1: raccoon is certainly an ally um And also Buddy who's
Speaker 1: not good at you know, listening per se to what
Speaker 1: people are trying to communicate to him. Raccoon is like
Speaker 1: being explicitly clear, and so we know moment one, but
Speaker 1: he's not going to take cues in this world. And
Speaker 1: I know in two thousand three we were all there,
Speaker 1: go with me on this journey. Uh. And and two
Speaker 1: thousand three we're like, oh my god, the raccoons being
Speaker 1: so rude to will farell Is the raccoon on her period? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like what is wrong with raccoons? I know a lot
Speaker 1: about raccoons, but I don't know if they actually I
Speaker 1: don't think they do. I think it's like, no, they do,
Speaker 1: but it's like it's not like human is. It's like
Speaker 1: you don't see it. That sounds better. Uh. But then
Speaker 1: in eighteen we're like, actually, where's the film? Frand tries
Speaker 1: for the raccoon because she really has a story we
Speaker 1: didn't explore, so her and her I think she should
Speaker 1: be in a movie with Amy, Saidaris, and Amy Saidarius
Speaker 1: will be like, boy, I've never had clawda raccoon before,
Speaker 1: and you know, and the raccoons. The raccoon teaches her
Speaker 1: that liked clawing is like actually bad and you shouldn't
Speaker 1: do it because it hurts your cats. And I'm a
Speaker 1: cat lady, so I know this. But yeah, that's that's I.
Speaker 1: I do also love raccoons. I'm I'm always in support
Speaker 1: of raccoons and almost everything. They're one of my favorite animals. Um,
Speaker 1: I really love them. I have like a raccoon puppet
Speaker 1: at home that pops out of a little garbage can.
Speaker 1: So um, I'm I'm almost always on team Raccoon. I'm
Speaker 1: almost always on on team Raccoons. So the puppet I
Speaker 1: didn't see coming. I will say, Look, I was at
Speaker 1: I was at I was at a convention, I was working,
Speaker 1: and I saw I was like, oh, it's a little
Speaker 1: stuffed animal. Oh okay, it's a puppet, all right. Well
Speaker 1: I'll leave it half there. So people don't think that
Speaker 1: I'm like a puppet person. Although I actually did learn
Speaker 1: how to do puppetry at n y U. But that's
Speaker 1: a whole other story. And what use a weird place, guys, Um,
Speaker 1: I'm a puppet person. Yeah, we know. J know. Any
Speaker 1: other questions or comments or anything like that, Oh yeah, um,
Speaker 1: this is a long time ago. But you were talking
Speaker 1: about baby it's cold outside and about how those lyrics
Speaker 1: aren't great. And U there's actually a musician named Lydia
Speaker 1: Eliza who has released a modernized like version of the song,
Speaker 1: like updated lyrics, like she did it like a few
Speaker 1: years ago. It sounds Spotify and also you can um
Speaker 1: all the money that goes from that goes to like
Speaker 1: Survivors and a couple of foundations as well, And it's
Speaker 1: like a really funny take on this song. I guess
Speaker 1: if you like babies Call Outside sort of but you
Speaker 1: don't want to listen to the lyrics, that's that's a
Speaker 1: good alternative. Yes, thank you so much. Check that out. Um.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry not to challenge queer icon Raccoon because I
Speaker 1: totally agree, but like, what about queer icon awkward claymation,
Speaker 1: Mr Norwal Yes, fully excellent point. Yes, clearly we were
Speaker 1: not as thorough as we should have been in this episode.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure all the claimations are are they're they're
Speaker 1: they're all queer, they're all queer. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe that was just my reading of it, but no,
Speaker 1: I think queer coded. Yes, yes, I I thought they
Speaker 1: were all queer coded. That's the stemen from the Rudolph
Speaker 1: the Red Nose reindeer animated movie. Right, okay, yeah, but
Speaker 1: I agree with Narwhale. I would also argue that penguin,
Speaker 1: what's the story there? You know, maybe that's Buddy's next
Speaker 1: book is you know? I mean there are a lot
Speaker 1: of gay penguins. So yes, yes, oh, has no one
Speaker 1: else read this clickbait because it's true? All right? Well, hey,
Speaker 1: does this movie past the Bechtel test? No, unless you
Speaker 1: count Amy Saidari's talking to another woman on the phone,
Speaker 1: I would say, because we don't hear them talking, then yeah,
Speaker 1: because she is named. Her name is Connie, and they
Speaker 1: are talking about Decline cats, which talk about a Bechtel
Speaker 1: test passing scene. If the cats are male cats, I
Speaker 1: still think it would pass. But she's named I think Connie,
Speaker 1: And then Amy Sadaris's Character's name is deb But because
Speaker 1: we don't hear Connie's voice in her side of the conversation,
Speaker 1: I would say that does not pass. The only other
Speaker 1: time where it comes close where women are interacting is
Speaker 1: towards the end, whenever Jovi and Mary stein Bergen's character
Speaker 1: Virgin Bergen. I think it's Virgin. They sing at each other,
Speaker 1: but the song is about Santa Claus, so it does
Speaker 1: not pass. And they're also not actually talking to each other.
Speaker 1: And that's all you get with women interacting in the movie. Elf. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's really not much happening there. Well, let's write the
Speaker 1: movie on our nipple scale, shall we? Yeah? Yeah, zero
Speaker 1: to five nipples based on his portrayal of women. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give it a half nipple. We're zero it is
Speaker 1: it even? I think it's zero? Yeah, I'm gonna give
Speaker 1: it zero nipples because between Zoe's character, which the arc
Speaker 1: of that is that he harasses her and wears her
Speaker 1: down into eventually going out with him, and then basically
Speaker 1: her function in the story is to help him grow
Speaker 1: is a person, so she doesn't have any sort of
Speaker 1: her own character, her own stories all just about like
Speaker 1: characterizing him. Mary Steinberger's character, did I say it right?
Speaker 1: I don't know. We've said both ways, so we're gonna
Speaker 1: be right the chance she is very underwritten, as is
Speaker 1: Amy Saidar's character, like they're just they exist in the
Speaker 1: story to support the men around them. And um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a very white movie. It's a very hetero movie.
Speaker 1: So zero nipples. And that's the end of my speech.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with I'll give it one, okay, give
Speaker 1: it half of one, okay, because I think, as with
Speaker 1: most movies we cover, there's a lot of missed potential
Speaker 1: where at very least I'm going back to one. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going back to one because especially with Mary stein
Speaker 1: Bergen's character, Uh, there were a lot of trophy pitfalls
Speaker 1: this character could have gone to that the writer didn't
Speaker 1: go in that direction and instead win in no direction
Speaker 1: and sort of made her like an inconsequential character where
Speaker 1: you know, and then there's moments where you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: Jovie is advocating for herself, she's communicating clearly, don't do this,
Speaker 1: don't do this, but she still ends up with the
Speaker 1: guy that always does it anyways, And so there. I
Speaker 1: think the few female characters we have there is potential
Speaker 1: in them, but because they never technically get to meet
Speaker 1: each other, and because of I mean, the whole circumstance
Speaker 1: of how like you were saying, they only exist as
Speaker 1: it pertends to male characters, we just lose that. And
Speaker 1: I think that there is you know, a version of
Speaker 1: this story where one of the many male characters is
Speaker 1: written out to make room for Marrier's always character that
Speaker 1: ends up in a much more interesting movie. Also scary
Speaker 1: white ist ever fashion north Pole, No, thank you, very freaky.
Speaker 1: Um but the claymation was queer, but but queer code
Speaker 1: and we're coded. Also, why isn't Santa a woman? All
Speaker 1: female reboot of Christmas? They mentioned Mrs Claws, but it's
Speaker 1: it's just Mrs Claus made that for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Ariana Grande Santa is a woman, major Christmas draw calling
Speaker 1: it maw why not beat a dead horse? Okay, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: So I'll go one strictly on completely missed potential. Uh
Speaker 1: and because there are still parts of this movie that
Speaker 1: I thought I had seen, uh that I thought we're
Speaker 1: sweet and it's nice to see a leading male character
Speaker 1: who is not inherently macho toxic. So one nippy and
Speaker 1: I'm giving it to the raccoon. Yeah, I was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was gonna I was gonna say too, but then
Speaker 1: I realized I was pretty much gonna say everything that
Speaker 1: Jamie said. So I feel kind of like I kind
Speaker 1: of have to bump it down to one and a half.
Speaker 1: I do think that the women are often the most
Speaker 1: interesting characters in this in this movie, and uh and
Speaker 1: I like a lot of the actors, you know, I
Speaker 1: love Amy Sai Arris, I love marysin Virgin Steven Bergkin.
Speaker 1: Um So, I I think that there's yeah, there's there's
Speaker 1: definitely that, and I do think there's there is something
Speaker 1: sweet and are about like you know, your your biology
Speaker 1: not being your destiny, and and like there's one there
Speaker 1: is a message. They're sort of a like I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess he does like find his biological family, but
Speaker 1: it's also it is also like you are also the
Speaker 1: people that raised you, and you know, and that doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily have to be the people that brought you into
Speaker 1: the world, you know. And and so I think that
Speaker 1: that is that is kind of a nice message that
Speaker 1: that you find in the movie there. Um So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I think I probably would have to say
Speaker 1: one and a half because but I do feel very
Speaker 1: much like there were missed opportunities and there was more
Speaker 1: that could be done and it makes me sad that
Speaker 1: that there weren't. Um I do still think that it
Speaker 1: is like a sweet movie. I think it is very
Speaker 1: much of its time. There is this like really weird
Speaker 1: like period. The two thousands were like there were some
Speaker 1: good movies, but just like the culture I feel like
Speaker 1: of entertainment at that time was really weird, and there
Speaker 1: was a lot of stuff that went on that like
Speaker 1: really shouldn't have and and so like even like the
Speaker 1: movies that are good, or even the movies that are sweet,
Speaker 1: like have this weird you know kind of like Aspertain,
Speaker 1: you know, after like after days to them of like
Speaker 1: like that was sweet, but what is this. We've covered
Speaker 1: a lot of those movies on the podcast. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: always come to the same conclu Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: been I've been listening. I was just listening to Miscongeniality
Speaker 1: episode and it was like, oh, yeah, right, that was
Speaker 1: sensibly okay back then, it wasn't that long ago that
Speaker 1: that was okay, that's weird. But yeah, two thousands were
Speaker 1: culture waste land fight me. That's not true. We had
Speaker 1: we had mean girls, We had the Wire you know,
Speaker 1: which I which were equal in my eyes? Now? No,
Speaker 1: um no, we had we had you know, we did
Speaker 1: have culture back there. We had Beyonce. But like it
Speaker 1: was a very strange, very conservative time. I think there
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of risk taking. Would you like to
Speaker 1: give your nipples to anyone? Just as little Christmas tokens.
Speaker 1: Would would I like to give my nipples to anual
Speaker 1: not not your sorry Caitlin as a Christmas Ok? Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: I like I had a sorry. I had a moment
Speaker 1: of like of like you know, um, I mean I
Speaker 1: would also love to give them to the raccoon, but
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to give them to the kittens
Speaker 1: that need to be to Claude. Oh yes, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for being here. Hello, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I didn't think I had strong feelings on this movie,
Speaker 1: but I guess I did. We all do. Um. Where
Speaker 1: can people find you online? Is that you would like
Speaker 1: to plug? Yeah? You can find me at Marrow Wilson
Speaker 1: on Twitter. You can go tomorrow dot substack dot com
Speaker 1: for my newsletter. It's called We Tell the Vicar because
Speaker 1: every week I closed with a fake BBC show title. Um.
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things, making fun of British
Speaker 1: television shows because they all have ridiculous names. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can find me there. Um, I'm on the show Big
Speaker 1: Hero six. If you have children, uh and so, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can just go ahead and follow me there. Awesome,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. You can follow us at all
Speaker 1: the normal places. Thanks, for coming, Thanks for happy holidays,
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time. Thank you. Oh hey everyone,
Speaker 1: that was our our live show episode like that. Oh
Speaker 1: they loved it. Anyway, Well, we just want to say
Speaker 1: thank you again to our guest Smarrow Wilson. Thanks again
Speaker 1: to the Ruby. Just a reminder that we have a
Speaker 1: live show there every second Saturday of the month at
Speaker 1: nine pm. So give us a little kiss. Yeah, only
Speaker 1: if you want to, and only if we want you to.
Speaker 1: I'm just all about consent here, you know, give us
Speaker 1: a little kiss. Jamie granted her. I do not touch
Speaker 1: me or look me in the eye. Come give me
Speaker 1: a little kiss. And now it sounds like I'm soliciting.
Speaker 1: So anyways, come to the Ruby and we'll just you know,
Speaker 1: feel things out. Yes, right, that's great. Um. Anyway, you
Speaker 1: can follow us on social media at bectel Cast. You
Speaker 1: can write and review us on iTunes. That helps us. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's your Christmas present to us. Yes, please give us
Speaker 1: a wonderful review. Um. You can subscribe to our patreon
Speaker 1: a k a Matreon five dollars a month gets you
Speaker 1: two bonus episodes. Go to patreon dot com, slash becktel
Speaker 1: Casts and check out our merch If you're looking for
Speaker 1: any belated holiday gifts or you want to rush order
Speaker 1: something uh, the link is t public dot com slash
Speaker 1: to the backdel cast. We have some holiday exclusive designs
Speaker 1: and all the ones you know and love, so check
Speaker 1: them out. Yes, indeed, well, Happy holidays to you, Jamie,
Speaker 1: and happy holidays to us all. Happy holiday, Seve, kay okay,
Speaker 1: bye bye