Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 1: Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up n
Speaker 1: SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klank, I'm Liza.
Speaker 2: Traeger, and every week we talk about an episode of SVU,
Speaker 2: the true crime it's based on, and then we have
Speaker 2: a guest from the episode, and yeah, we have another
Speaker 2: great one. As always, it's good to be confident. I've
Speaker 2: learned that from drag Race. We just had a fun
Speaker 2: little trip.
Speaker 1: We just got to go on a little trip to
Speaker 1: Palm Springs with a couple of our vaccinated pals.
Speaker 3: Yes, we had a blast. We did. I did follow
Speaker 3: one time and my knees are bruised.
Speaker 2: But at LISTA was in front of a whole group
Speaker 2: of people I didn't know.
Speaker 3: You know that that made it better.
Speaker 1: And I did get a pinch nerve that made me
Speaker 1: unable to walk for most of the weekend. But you
Speaker 1: know what, good company makes anything better.
Speaker 2: It is tough to be a parent. I yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't you need a vacation from the vacation. Not to
Speaker 2: sound like I'm eighty eight, but well no, I mean
Speaker 2: it's true.
Speaker 1: It's like I'm like, is there not a daycare option
Speaker 1: during this trip? Like I'm with her now, like the
Speaker 1: entire trip, and she was being a nutball, but she
Speaker 1: was having fun.
Speaker 3: She's obsessed with Lisa.
Speaker 1: As we've already mentioned, the obsession only grew deeper over
Speaker 1: the weekend. She's like, Lisa, put on your bathing suit, Lisa,
Speaker 1: put on your hat.
Speaker 2: My favorite was my friend was holding my phone and
Speaker 2: Rosie went, is that Lisa's phone?
Speaker 3: Give it to her? And I was cute.
Speaker 1: Well, I think what we're getting is that she's a
Speaker 1: fucking bossy bitch. Like she's not even like I don't
Speaker 1: She's just like thinks she knows where everything should go.
Speaker 3: She also said a kiss, which to me is she.
Speaker 1: Has an abacus at home. So she does say I
Speaker 1: want my avocus. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to get her prepedic case she gets into a
Speaker 1: competitive Montessori school.
Speaker 4: I just have to look up what that is, job, Rosie.
Speaker 1: She recently also started calling things spooky, so she like
Speaker 1: picked up a book today and there was a bug
Speaker 1: on the back of the book, like a picture of
Speaker 1: a bug, and she goes, is this spooky bug? It's
Speaker 1: just like really cracking me up that she I don't
Speaker 1: know where she learned that. I certainly I don't prefer
Speaker 1: to things as spooky day to day on a non
Speaker 1: Halloween uh setting.
Speaker 3: So I don't know where she's getting at, but it's
Speaker 3: cracking me up. I have a Beanie Baby ghost.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll surprise her, Oh my god, because that's spooky, spooky,
Speaker 1: fucking Beanie Baby girl.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: My exes have gotten me really great gifts in the past,
Speaker 2: and I keep them all. But it is weird or
Speaker 2: it's not weird. I get good gifts from people that
Speaker 2: I've dated.
Speaker 3: I can't tell if.
Speaker 1: You would be easy to shop for, of course, because
Speaker 1: you do a little bit of different things. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I feel like if you miss with you, it's a
Speaker 1: big miss. It's like a like a whiff, like I
Speaker 1: would I would be like humiliated.
Speaker 3: But what would you get me that would be a miss?
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, like if I got you some
Speaker 1: Simpsons thing and you were like, this is really fucking lame,
Speaker 1: and it's from China, and it's like, nobody ad buys this.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is a nightmare I'm working through right now.
Speaker 3: No way, I would be excited about everything.
Speaker 2: And you know that I was gifted from three separate
Speaker 2: people Simpson's bagoo bags.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, and I've used them all. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You certainly don't get it. You don't get mad when
Speaker 1: you get a double gift.
Speaker 3: That's no, no, no, no. Or also maybe I'll talk
Speaker 3: behind your back.
Speaker 2: But I would never accumiliate anyone in Publand in front
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 1: Well, thank god, well, thank god for that. Okay, Wait,
Speaker 1: I wanted to read this message that we got from
Speaker 1: a listener because I thought it was wild. Because we
Speaker 1: you know, you guys send us a lot of memes
Speaker 1: and tiktoks of people dancing to the SVUS theme song,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, we love them.
Speaker 3: We also get a lot of lawn and Order.
Speaker 1: Yes, like there are so many like plum and Order
Speaker 1: or like lawn and Order, like lawn companies and plumbing companies.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, are you all living in the same
Speaker 1: city or are They're just like multiple of these across
Speaker 1: the country. And I think this is the second one
Speaker 1: is the answer. But somebody was responding to us talking
Speaker 1: about dancing to the theme song and said, my husband
Speaker 1: and I binged SVU in twenty ten, twenty eleven, and we,
Speaker 1: of course dance like maniacs to the theme song. I
Speaker 1: love that, I love one s FU can bring a
Speaker 1: couple together. During one such dance off, I hit him
Speaker 1: in the balls and he was obviously in pain. The
Speaker 1: pain lingered and his testicle became swollen. He went to
Speaker 1: the doctor and it ended up being testicular cancer. He
Speaker 1: has since fully recovered with no further issues, but dancing
Speaker 1: to the SVU theme song quite literally saved my husband's life.
Speaker 3: Wow. I thought that was worth a read.
Speaker 1: I mean, wow, guys, make sure to give your husband
Speaker 1: a little ball tap every once in a while, make
Speaker 1: sure everything's good down there. I guess that is a
Speaker 1: good story. Yeah, I thought so, and I'm surprised. I'm
Speaker 1: glad he's okay. Also so that I can't believe she
Speaker 1: remembers the year that oh, because of the cancer.
Speaker 3: I'm sure.
Speaker 2: I was like, damn, they really pinpointed the exact year
Speaker 2: they marathoned, but obviously other things were playing.
Speaker 1: She has a journal of all the nights that they
Speaker 1: danced to the theme song.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's also now that we're living so close to each other,
Speaker 2: is I am scared everyone will get sick of me?
Speaker 1: No, what are you talking about.
Speaker 2: I kept going to the Joyce's house popping in and
Speaker 2: they have full jobs, and he just kept being like,
Speaker 2: I'm on a conference call.
Speaker 3: I'm like, just to pop in. Rolled me a joint.
Speaker 3: That's my goal. Actually, to the.
Speaker 1: Way, wait, who is that? Like what is that like
Speaker 1: Steve Erkele or like what what characters? Aim GiB Yeah
Speaker 1: you're a gimbler. You're an arkle?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Aunt Jackie, Yeah, listen. Hopefully one day I'll I'll
Speaker 2: book one of those Patton Oswald side King of Queen's.
Speaker 3: It's like my dream. I want to be a buddy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you as a crazy You as like a crazy
Speaker 1: wacko neighbor I think really works calling all casting directors.
Speaker 3: I mean, you have the goofiest neighbor. I still have
Speaker 3: never met him.
Speaker 1: Oh so, my neighbor drunk dialed me twice over the
Speaker 1: weekend while we were in Palm Sprinks. I was like,
Speaker 1: why are you calling me? And he didn't say why,
Speaker 1: Like I texted him and said is everything okay? And
Speaker 1: he's I'm like, I'm out of town, and he said,
Speaker 1: no problem, I'll keep an eye on your house. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, but you still haven't explained why you called
Speaker 1: me on Saturday night. He never calls me. And then
Speaker 1: it turns out I found out from his wife that
Speaker 1: he thought I was having the baby. And that's fine,
Speaker 1: but why are you calling me? You think I'm having
Speaker 1: the baby and I'm picking up a phone call from you,
Speaker 1: like in between bushes, like.
Speaker 2: No what After one of my sister's births, like some
Speaker 2: casual friends just showed up at the hospital and were
Speaker 2: quickly turned away. My sister's like, are you out of
Speaker 2: your fucking mind? We don't want to see you. We
Speaker 2: go out to dinner twice a month. This is not
Speaker 2: a true friendship. I was actually obsessed with those friends
Speaker 2: because the husband looked like Edward Norton, Oh, which was
Speaker 2: a thing for me a decade or so ago.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's complicated with the American history acts of it all,
Speaker 1: But as a.
Speaker 2: Joe, I had a joke about that that he looked
Speaker 2: the hottest. In the Nazi movie, I forgot the punchline,
Speaker 2: but there was one for sure. Because I bought all
Speaker 2: this gear of his and so then I had all
Speaker 2: these buttons with him as a Nazi.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 1: That just did it more for you, That just made you.
Speaker 1: It was like more forbidden. Like but like the bad
Speaker 1: guy in school.
Speaker 3: No, the tattoo, it sucks.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I liked the muscles and there was an
Speaker 2: epic sex scene in the start of that movie.
Speaker 3: But I think the racism should have affected me more.
Speaker 2: But I also would rather This is controversial, but I
Speaker 2: would rather a cover up of a Nazi.
Speaker 3: Tattoo than a giant Jew letter tattoo. What which is
Speaker 3: fucked up?
Speaker 2: Like if I met like a dude and he had
Speaker 2: a giant hamsu on his body, I would be very
Speaker 2: turned off, even though I do have Hebrew letters tattooed
Speaker 2: on the back of my neck.
Speaker 1: But you are really just an enigma wrapped in a riddle.
Speaker 3: Erica Jane, I mean, like what it's I don't know.
Speaker 3: There's something about giant.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 2: Actually we have a friend, Noah has Jew letters on
Speaker 2: top of his penis giant.
Speaker 3: But it says like I am the soul in the light.
Speaker 3: I have to text him.
Speaker 1: Like he has a like and he's like like above
Speaker 1: his pubic bone, kind of yes over his stomach, like
Speaker 1: an opposite tramp stamp, and it says like no thyself
Speaker 1: and hebrew above an opposite tramp stamp is the best
Speaker 1: way to call back that place. A reverse tramp stamp.
Speaker 2: Well, there's there snatch patch and vadge badge, because I
Speaker 2: have a badge badge.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of those words. You have a tattoo
Speaker 1: right there over your lady parts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got it when I was sixteen in a
Speaker 2: person's apartment.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I've never seen that one. You wear high
Speaker 1: waisted bathing suits around me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll get naked more often. It's weird.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it because you pee when we're on
Speaker 1: FaceTime all the time, so it is weird that I
Speaker 1: haven't seen that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'll be calling her as I'm sitting down to
Speaker 2: pee and it's like, could you not have waited a.
Speaker 3: Can I get to consent first? Ask?
Speaker 1: I'm gonna always say yes, but just you should get consent.
Speaker 3: And I get offended.
Speaker 2: When I'm talking on the phone and someone's like, well
Speaker 2: I have to go to the bathroom.
Speaker 3: I have to go, and.
Speaker 1: I'm like I'll come with you, Like well, why are
Speaker 1: you hanging up on me? This doesn't have to end,
Speaker 1: But what does have to end is us talking right now.
Speaker 3: I know, but I just wanted to say.
Speaker 2: We watched old seasons of New York Housewives on our trip,
Speaker 2: and like a fine wine, I mean, it never gets old.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we watched the original Berkshires. We watched the Berkshire's
Speaker 1: pre Drinda with Heather. Yeah, when Ramona said, is that
Speaker 1: your house or your garage? She's such a nightmare.
Speaker 5: She is.
Speaker 2: But also I learned from you guys that the women
Speaker 2: keep shitting themselves on that show because they're on laxatives
Speaker 2: for dieting purposes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're all like trapped in like nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that either, you know, but that's why
Speaker 1: there's a rumor that Ramona shits during sex. They shot
Speaker 1: on multiple vacations. They always blame like the local cuisine.
Speaker 1: It's like, I've been to Columbia. The water's fine. Like,
Speaker 1: you're not shitting your pants there a little tom tom
Speaker 1: ache from I don't know, something that you're not used to,
Speaker 1: But I don't think you're shitting fully on the floor.
Speaker 3: That's because you're taking laxatives. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I don't know if anyone else knew that, but
Speaker 2: I like to learn that. Do we not have any
Speaker 2: other palm Springs highlights? Except I fell? We watched Old Housewives.
Speaker 2: I mean I ate Oreos, which was like great, No
Speaker 2: one should buy oreos. Ever, once you pop, you can't stop.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I got us our tarot cards read.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh my god, that was on.
Speaker 1: I should give a shout out. I did this as
Speaker 1: like it was our friend's birthday coming up. Her birthdays
Speaker 1: actually today was her birthday coming up, so I did
Speaker 1: it as sort of a birthday gift to her and
Speaker 1: to all the girls. I got everybody like a zoom
Speaker 1: tarot reading. And her name is Kristin Rand. She's a
Speaker 1: stand up comedian who does tarot readings, and she's so
Speaker 1: fucking great and we're gonna put her link in the
Speaker 1: This was like a perfect You could just do this
Speaker 1: for fun for yourself, or you could do it as
Speaker 1: like a little group party thing. I love her and
Speaker 1: I'd love to give her a little shout out.
Speaker 3: She was very good.
Speaker 2: A few of us left the casita with tears, so
Speaker 2: that was well.
Speaker 1: She gets to the real shit. She told me some
Speaker 1: interesting stuff about my coming baby, but I'm not going
Speaker 1: to reveal it here. We'll see what happens once I
Speaker 1: have the baby.
Speaker 3: No, she was really good. That was a really nice
Speaker 3: gift for us. And now here's different.
Speaker 2: Hold on and our friend mad trying to end it, Hannah,
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, our friend Lane made a crab
Speaker 2: hushpuppies that were Michelin's star level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the best hushpuppies, not dry at all.
Speaker 1: He's a talent. There was a delicious dipping sauce with it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so good. We ate well on that trip.
Speaker 1: But now let's dive into today's episode because it's a
Speaker 1: good one. All right, Let's get into today's episode, which
Speaker 1: is Vulnerable. That is season four, episode three, so kind
Speaker 1: of an early guy. We open on a couple of
Speaker 1: sleep in their New York apartment, being awoken by someone
Speaker 1: rummaging outside in their kitchen. The guy tells his wife
Speaker 1: call mine one one. But this episode is so old
Speaker 1: that they actually just have a cordless phone and it's
Speaker 1: not on the cradle, so people aren't fully addicted to
Speaker 1: addicted to their cell phones quite yet. He grabs a gun,
Speaker 1: she grabs a bat. They head to this kid to
Speaker 1: their kitchen, where they find this sweet old lady rummaging
Speaker 1: through the fridge and she's like, is that you itsy?
Speaker 2: My favorite part is the woman goes, who's itsy? And
Speaker 2: then the guy says, who's this? Like I just love
Speaker 2: that so much.
Speaker 1: The chettle bit of comedy.
Speaker 3: It's a woman here, yeah.
Speaker 1: Which we recently have discovered that the man is Bobby
Speaker 1: Kelly with hair, who is a New York City comedian
Speaker 1: that both of us have I think worked with tangentially.
Speaker 3: He's very funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very funny guy. Wait, so actually.
Speaker 3: Bobby Kelly Sorry, that was Bobby Kelly hair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I checked out his IMDb.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well wow. So now we've got Benson and Sabler
Speaker 1: on the scene. They don't know this old lady's name
Speaker 1: because she's seen Isle. Whether she knows it or is
Speaker 1: withholding it, we don't really know yet. She climbed through
Speaker 1: the window of this house. Olivia walks in. We've got
Speaker 1: a very short dude. It's like a little longer than
Speaker 1: her pixie, but I would say it's a traditional quote
Speaker 1: unquote boy haircut very short. And then she goes right
Speaker 1: into like very sweet. Olivia Benson, caretaker mode, tries to
Speaker 1: get Granny Doe to open up, which is what they've
Speaker 1: been calling her, Granny Dough. She just keeps saying that
Speaker 1: she needs to talk to itsy. Benson pretends that she's
Speaker 1: actually spoken to Itsy, and then the woman opens up
Speaker 1: and confesses to being raped. Olivia pulls down the woman's
Speaker 1: night gown a little bit in the and they discover,
Speaker 1: like pretty horribly that she has about nine cigarette burns
Speaker 1: all over her chest, and Stabler goes someone used her
Speaker 1: for an ash tray, and then we're out of the
Speaker 1: cold open.
Speaker 2: I'm also thinking I might get Granny Dough tattooed on
Speaker 2: my body.
Speaker 3: I really like it.
Speaker 1: Just unidentified old ladies.
Speaker 3: Let's Belisa trigger promise.
Speaker 2: Well one time, I'm actually glad I didn't do it,
Speaker 2: but I was gonna get Lucy Lucy Apple juice tattooed
Speaker 2: from Beverly Hills, and I'm glad I didn't.
Speaker 1: He Yeah, I'm really really glad you didn't do that.
Speaker 1: I was talking to you about that, and I think
Speaker 1: we all made the right decision. So we're at the
Speaker 1: hospital and the woman treating Bess is a beautiful young
Speaker 1: doctor who tells them that basically this woman has no abrasions,
Speaker 1: no fluids, but they did do a rape kit. They
Speaker 1: have to wait for the results. They said she had
Speaker 1: twelve raw burns on her breasts and genitals. I didn't
Speaker 1: catch that the first time I watched that episode. I
Speaker 1: watched it a couple times and oh my god, so awful.
Speaker 1: The doctor says she probably has Alzheimer's, so no short
Speaker 1: term memory, and she doesn't think that she'll come around
Speaker 1: with any more details about what's happened to her. Benson
Speaker 1: is a shock that Granny Doe hasn't been admitted to
Speaker 1: the hospital, and the doctor is essentially like, I'm triaging her,
Speaker 1: like she doesn't need immediate treatment, she needs long term care.
Speaker 1: And she also has a very short haircut, so it's
Speaker 1: kind of like the Battle of the Pixie cuts these two.
Speaker 1: They bring this old woman back to the precinct and
Speaker 1: try to talk to her.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 1: She's confused and accuses Olivia of stealing her purse, which
Speaker 1: I think is kind of a cute moment. The woman
Speaker 1: eventually begins to recount her rape, and she says that
Speaker 1: the man who did it stays in her house because
Speaker 1: he lost all his money investing. He drinks every night.
Speaker 1: Then she gets kind of lost mid conversation, starts eating
Speaker 1: a cracker and is like, what happened? Like you know,
Speaker 1: it's sad. And then Munch weighs in and is like
Speaker 1: when the steel trap starts to rust call Kavorkian and
Speaker 1: I sees, like, consider that done. So these two freaking
Speaker 1: these I don't want to see Lucy and Affla.
Speaker 3: Who are they?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Like, stat freaking freaking fac is that the term?
Speaker 1: I don't know Tom and Jerry, so h, Munch and
Speaker 1: Finn head to h They meet this nerdy gay archivist.
Speaker 1: I mean he doesn't say he's gay, but he's really
Speaker 1: into Census Bureau information and they track down the family
Speaker 1: who used to live in that apartment, and it's a
Speaker 1: family with three little girls, Lilith, Isabelle, and Milly. They
Speaker 1: go speak to Millie. She's out gardening. She says both
Speaker 1: of her sisters have passed away. But then when Benson
Speaker 1: mentions the name Itsy, she remembers that her sister Isabelle
Speaker 1: and her best friend Bess McIntyre went by Itsy and bitsy,
Speaker 1: which is so cute. I think She also reveals that
Speaker 1: Bess used to climb into the window in the middle
Speaker 1: of their night at their apartment to kind of escape
Speaker 1: from her quote unquote funny uncle. Which I've heard that
Speaker 1: phrase before, and it's the it's very unfunny, but just
Speaker 1: an uncle who was molesting her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like memes I see all the time where
Speaker 2: it's like, instead of telling your daughter to put on
Speaker 2: clothes or to stay away from funny uncle, don't fucking
Speaker 2: invite him into your home. Like right, reject the funny uncle.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 1: Back at the precinct, they speak to the old woman
Speaker 1: and they confirm that she is Best. She admits that
Speaker 1: the rapist she was referring to was her uncle and
Speaker 1: that he lost all his money in nineteen twenty nine
Speaker 1: when everybody did. So now we're basically getting the picture
Speaker 1: that she was molested as a child, and that's what
Speaker 1: she's been recounting. But you know, obviously those cigarette burns
Speaker 1: are not from nineteen twenty nine, so she, you know,
Speaker 1: she needs to we need to figure out where those
Speaker 1: came from.
Speaker 3: So Benson's like, who's hurting you now?
Speaker 1: And unfortunately this best just loses the threat of the
Speaker 1: conversation again. She just can't really keep up. A blessing
Speaker 1: from Captain Craigan is that the rape kit comes back negative.
Speaker 1: Long comes in having just spoken to Bess Love his
Speaker 1: diagnoses all the time, always waiting for Houonk to open
Speaker 1: his mouth and tell us what's going on. He says.
Speaker 1: The attack that just happened to her recently triggered the
Speaker 1: memories of her childhood assault.
Speaker 3: So she went looking for her childhood.
Speaker 1: Friend and they're like, well, who is she running from now?
Speaker 1: And Huang says, I doubt she'll ever be able to
Speaker 1: tell you. So the good news is her rapist uncle
Speaker 1: was arrested and sent to jail for five counts of
Speaker 1: rape and was killed in president in nineteen fifty seven,
Speaker 1: so it's not like he's still hanging around. Huang says,
Speaker 1: we're looking for a sadist, someone who enjoys the torture,
Speaker 1: and he's not sure if it's sexual or anger based.
Speaker 1: It's somebody who's young, socially stunted, and chooses old women
Speaker 1: because of feelings of inadequacy. So Finn looks up Best
Speaker 1: Is Social Security and finds the assisted living facility where
Speaker 1: the checks are going is called Jubilee Towers. So obviously
Speaker 1: they head to Jubilee Towers. Olivia is like pretty upscale
Speaker 1: for a nursing home, and then the employee swoops in
Speaker 1: and corrects her and says, it's not a nursing home,
Speaker 1: it's an assisted living facility. This is Hope Garrett, assistant administrator,
Speaker 1: played by legendary actress Mary kay Place. I love her Upset. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd been watching her since I was a kid. She's
Speaker 1: so funny.
Speaker 3: She plays Maria Bamford's mom and Lady Dynamite. Go look
Speaker 3: up her work.
Speaker 1: She's so so great. She tells them the bus isn't
Speaker 1: missing from their facility. She was released two weeks ago
Speaker 1: to the custody of her son Joe Sherman.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I was in like a trance because I was like,
Speaker 2: where did I just see her?
Speaker 3: And you know, I got very obsessed.
Speaker 2: Last week with Bravos Scripted showed the Impostors and she's
Speaker 2: on that.
Speaker 3: She is in that. Yeah, Okay, that was thrilling. Whatever.
Speaker 3: Another Lea's the trigger wreck.
Speaker 1: They come at you, They come at you from anywhere,
Speaker 1: and you just got to be ready to grab them.
Speaker 2: Well, what I loved about it is it is like
Speaker 2: suspense and undercover and spies and grifting.
Speaker 3: But it's casual.
Speaker 1: It's not like as intense as like The Americans or something.
Speaker 3: It's like a Bravo version of the Americans.
Speaker 2: Yes, so it like gave me the suspense I needed,
Speaker 2: but also like the silliness and like kind of I
Speaker 2: wouldn't say bad writing, but because I want a season three,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love how you tweeted when a season three
Speaker 1: coming out, and everyone tweeted you that show was canceled
Speaker 1: three years ago. Okay, so Benson is stable to show
Speaker 1: up at the home of Joe Sherman, Bess's son. The
Speaker 1: super lets them in. He's got a beeper and he's
Speaker 1: got a lot of information. Okay, He's like, this is
Speaker 1: not his apartment, it's best's apartment. It's rent controlled. It's
Speaker 1: three hundred fifty dollars a month. Mister Sherman is an
Speaker 1: off again, on again smoker. Since she's been back at
Speaker 1: his house, the repomen have stopped coming and the deliveries
Speaker 1: have started. Here's a big screen TV, a couch chairs,
Speaker 1: media center. There's a professional camera on a tripod that's
Speaker 1: just I don't know, ready to go in case someone
Speaker 1: gets the mood to photograph. But so anyway, the super
Speaker 1: knows a lot of information. He's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: kinds of characters, just like my super in New York
Speaker 1: would have known nothing about me, and they're always like,
Speaker 1: what's their relationship? Like it's like a little up and down.
Speaker 1: They always kind of know what's going on.
Speaker 2: I mean in New York, I had full on carbon
Speaker 2: monoxide poisonings time and time again, and my super said,
Speaker 2: how dare you call nine one one?
Speaker 3: You're a dumb bitch. That's what my experience in New
Speaker 3: York was like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Stabler's going through all the guy's stuff CD, DVD,
Speaker 1: stereo video, gott a TiVo, which is like supposed to
Speaker 1: be impressive. It's very two thousand and two. In this apartment,
Speaker 1: they find Bess's room. There are restraints on her bed,
Speaker 1: which is I mean, just creepy. Joe Sherman then barges in.
Speaker 1: He's played by Jay Thomas, who's been in a ton
Speaker 1: ton of stuff. He's won he won an Emmy for
Speaker 1: a character he played on Murphy Brown. And he just
Speaker 1: has like that really great like slimeball look sort of
Speaker 1: like slick Rick kind of look. He doesn't even know
Speaker 1: his mom is going. He's like, where is she? Like,
Speaker 1: he doesn't even know she's gone missing. Meanwhile, she's been
Speaker 1: to like six locations with Benson and Stabler and he
Speaker 1: has no idea his mom's even gone. They bring Joe
Speaker 1: to the precinct. He says he doesn't smoke. They show
Speaker 1: him photos of his mom's bruise wrists, and he's like,
Speaker 1: she's never bruised before, And he says he uses the
Speaker 1: restraints because she wanders that night. I know my grandfather
Speaker 1: had Alzheimer's and my grandmother had to build a fence
Speaker 1: around the property to keep him from wandering off. So
Speaker 1: you do have to take precautions, but I don't know
Speaker 1: that restraints. I don't know what the moral and ethical
Speaker 1: implications of restraints are, but it doesn't feel right. He
Speaker 1: denies being the one who burned her and says he
Speaker 1: didn't leave her chained up all day. He says the
Speaker 1: housekeeper comes in the morning, makes her breakfast, wakes her up,
Speaker 1: takes care of her. But Maria didn't come or call,
Speaker 1: and he says he pulled her out of Jubilee Towers
Speaker 1: a couple weeks earlier because they were draining her she
Speaker 1: was paying seven k a month, and I guess if
Speaker 1: she pays three fifty a month at home. He's like,
Speaker 1: that's sixty seven hundred dollars that could be going into
Speaker 1: my pocket, you know.
Speaker 2: And I know seven grand is a lot, but they
Speaker 2: probably feed them and all the medicine and their activities.
Speaker 2: It kind of seemed like a normal price too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know the prices of nursing homes and
Speaker 1: assists of living facilities, but I do know that they
Speaker 1: can get pricey, especially in manhatt Like like anything in Manhattan,
Speaker 1: it's going to be more, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Joe's like, I'm leaving and I'm taking my mother
Speaker 1: with me, and Benson's like, my ass you are. So
Speaker 1: she pushes Cabot to find a charge. She's like endangerment something.
Speaker 1: So Cabot gets a protective order to place Best back
Speaker 1: in Jubilee Towers and also freezes all his mother's accounts
Speaker 1: and assets. So Joe's like pissed because obviously his mom
Speaker 1: is his cash cow. They check in with the housekeeper Maria.
Speaker 1: I have to say, this episode has a thousand scenes.
Speaker 1: So I try to stay with us, like they literally
Speaker 1: go to so many locations full tank of gas used
Speaker 1: on this episode with the NYPD. So they check it
Speaker 1: on the housekeeper Maria. She said that she showed up
Speaker 1: and then no one was there, so he assumed that
Speaker 1: he had taken his mother to the doctor or something.
Speaker 1: And you know, they ask about the burn. She says, no,
Speaker 1: that's not something I've ever seen, but that he does
Speaker 1: speak harshly to her when he gets stressed out, and
Speaker 1: that this past Monday, he was very stressed out because
Speaker 1: he was having a party and everything needed to be
Speaker 1: perfect for the party.
Speaker 3: Let's get into the party.
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler go visit Joe at his office for
Speaker 1: who the fuck knows incorporated. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like this random office, Like he has a secretary.
Speaker 1: You have no idea what he sells or what he does.
Speaker 1: He's pissed that his funds have been shut down. He's like,
Speaker 1: this is a startup business and my mom is a
Speaker 1: key investor. He refuses to give the names of his
Speaker 1: investors who are at the party, like even though one
Speaker 1: of these people could be the person who burned his
Speaker 1: mother's genitals, He's like, I'm not telling you who it
Speaker 1: was they are giving me money for my new business idea.
Speaker 3: What an insane person?
Speaker 1: They think maybe, oh maybe Best came out and embarrassed
Speaker 1: him at the party or did something that caused him
Speaker 1: to punish her.
Speaker 3: But you know he's not given up any information.
Speaker 1: So we cut to Munch and fin a great scene
Speaker 1: of Munch and Finn just digging through trash from Joe's
Speaker 1: place in an alley.
Speaker 2: You know, I just can't. This is the most far
Speaker 2: fetched thing, and I love it. There's no way fucking
Speaker 2: iced tea is getting into a garbage cam and digging
Speaker 2: through trash and does no one pick up the tra
Speaker 2: It's like, do cops do this? I do want to
Speaker 2: know how often they are fully going into dumpster dives.
Speaker 1: Well, this is what's crazy. They're going through it. And
Speaker 1: Munch goes, oh, we got lick magazine, we got a
Speaker 1: hair dye for men, and some kind of anal ointment,
Speaker 1: and then Finn goes, will you just keep looking for
Speaker 1: the guest book? The guest book, Like I had a
Speaker 1: guest book at my wedding and like twenty people signed it.
Speaker 1: Like guest books are so antiquated, and if you had one,
Speaker 1: would you throw it away? In the trash the night
Speaker 1: of the party. What a weird thing. That's just such
Speaker 1: a weird piece of writing that got put in.
Speaker 4: I am going to add trash police. That's how they
Speaker 4: caught the Golden State killer. They got a Kleenex out
Speaker 4: of his trash can to get his DNA.
Speaker 3: But it was just a trash can.
Speaker 4: Well, no, it is trash can behind Oh not a
Speaker 4: dumpster for a full building.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not going into like they're treating it like
Speaker 2: a hot tub. I feel well, I guess.
Speaker 1: Also, Maria told them I threw away three bags with
Speaker 1: yellow ties. So they're looking for these specific three bags
Speaker 1: of trash. So it's a little bit. It's not a
Speaker 1: full dumpster dive. It's like they're looking for these three
Speaker 1: bags of trash.
Speaker 2: So but and you would think they would put on
Speaker 2: like a hazmat suit, like some little booties. They're truly
Speaker 2: like he's in a leather jacket. Yeah, there was just
Speaker 2: no prep for the garbage dive.
Speaker 1: It's just wild my issues that they're looking for a
Speaker 1: guest book anyway, and.
Speaker 3: In New York is it looked like it was an alley.
Speaker 3: I've never seen a dumpster in my life in New York.
Speaker 1: No, that's so true, and there are no there really
Speaker 1: aren't alleys in New York. There are alleys in Chicago.
Speaker 1: And that used to always kill me because I told
Speaker 1: you the one time I ever saw lawn Order being filmed,
Speaker 1: it was trial by jury. It was outside of my
Speaker 1: apartment and a couple doors down for me, there was
Speaker 1: a little space between two apartments, but not anywhere that
Speaker 1: anyone would ever go unless you want, like going to
Speaker 1: just throw trash away. And they were like pulling a
Speaker 1: suspect out of there, and I was like, I love
Speaker 1: how they have to just find.
Speaker 3: Alleys because there just aren't a lot of alleys in
Speaker 3: New York.
Speaker 2: Well, because one of the hardest things moving to New
Speaker 2: York from Chicago is I am a frequent.
Speaker 3: Pierre and alleys are very helpful for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you pee in New York, you got to
Speaker 1: pee in between cars and you just got to get
Speaker 1: to her. Yep. I'm a very outdoor, big outdoor pier.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So yeah. So then as they're going through the garbage,
Speaker 1: Munch finds like a big, like newspaper wrapped bunch of
Speaker 1: cigarette butts. I can like smell this scene when I'm
Speaker 1: watching it like just old butts garbage, and so that's
Speaker 1: like the sort of jackpot find that they get. Now
Speaker 1: we're at the forensic tech's office. She is a very
Speaker 1: strange person. I don't know if she's ever been on
Speaker 1: the show before. She has a very sultry voice and delivery,
Speaker 1: and she's a forensic tech, but you can tell she
Speaker 1: probably does Broadway. I don't think this is how lab
Speaker 1: techs talk, but maybe I don't know enough of them.
Speaker 1: She's like, I've been testing your cigarette butts.
Speaker 2: Like she just has a very like she's in a
Speaker 2: murder mystery or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly is in a murder mystery, but very clue.
Speaker 1: It's very clue. So they think they're not going to
Speaker 1: find anything, and sexy tech is like, not really, ninhydront
Speaker 1: and shows them how she sprays this stuff called ninhydron
Speaker 1: on the butts and it can pull fingerprints. So now
Speaker 1: Finn and Mount are at a car dealership questioning a
Speaker 1: salesman who was at the party. He basically says I
Speaker 1: never saw the mother, but he spills that Joe is
Speaker 1: hawking a horse racing program that's his new get rich
Speaker 1: quick scheme. He's also had like a Lama ranch and
Speaker 1: all these other crazy ideas, Like his ideas are habitual failures.
Speaker 1: And he said that, oh, his mother was his principal
Speaker 1: backer until two years ago. She caught him off, Joe
Speaker 1: went broke. She moves back in. Suddenly he has the money.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 1: We've already kind of established this, so I don't really
Speaker 1: know the point of this scene. Like they could have
Speaker 1: just said, hey, we talked to a guy who told
Speaker 1: us this, and it would have been like saved you
Speaker 1: setting up a full scene at a car dealership. But whatever,
Speaker 1: everybody needs those scenes for their reels. As I've said before,
Speaker 1: Joe shows up at the precinct. He's pissed at the
Speaker 1: that the cops are going around talking all his investors.
Speaker 1: He's like, my investors are pulling out. You guys are
Speaker 1: ruining me. And they're like, we pulled your financials and
Speaker 1: he's like, the only thing I take from my mom
Speaker 1: is rent and he's like what about all Olivia's like
Speaker 1: what about all these checks made out to cash? And
Speaker 1: Joe looks at them and goes Andy and they're like,
Speaker 1: who's Andy your partner or whatever. He's like, no, my
Speaker 1: college dropout son. He's like him and his deadbeat friend
Speaker 1: showed up uninvited to the party and he needed a
Speaker 1: place to sober up. They go to New Jersey to
Speaker 1: question Andy. This scene is so funny. Andy is shirtless
Speaker 1: on his bed, looking like he's having a seizure. But
Speaker 1: I guess he's just listening to music. He's just banging
Speaker 1: his hands on the bed and listening to rock and roll.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on, and so they obviously
Speaker 1: like turn up the music really loud on his headphones
Speaker 1: to get his attention because he doesn't notice two full
Speaker 1: strangers have walked into his room and they're like, we
Speaker 1: heard your college drop out. He's like, is that what
Speaker 1: my dad told you? Of course I had to drop
Speaker 1: out of college when my dad drained my college fund
Speaker 1: that my grandma set up for me. And he's sort
Speaker 1: of trying to be like, my grandma's the only one
Speaker 1: that cares about me. I love her. I would never
Speaker 1: hurt her. But he does admit that my grandma gives
Speaker 1: me presents or whatever, which I think is referring to
Speaker 1: these checks.
Speaker 2: Listen, that's what grandparents are for. I'm sorry, it's to
Speaker 2: give your grandkids money in presious.
Speaker 1: Sure, but I don't think when your grandma seen now
Speaker 1: you go in and make her sign checks to you,
Speaker 1: like five times a month, that's a little bit much.
Speaker 3: Listen.
Speaker 2: I'm on Andy's side. I don't think he's pushing her
Speaker 2: to it. I think she would want to do this.
Speaker 3: Okay. I like Andy, she.
Speaker 1: Doesn't even know her own name when the cops come
Speaker 1: to her, and you think that the son should just
Speaker 1: be giving five times monthly gifts. Okay, we disagree, and
Speaker 1: that's what's going to happen. It's okay, uh okay. So
Speaker 1: they're like, what about the guy that you came to
Speaker 1: the party with And they're like, He's like, oh hol
Speaker 1: And they're like does he smoke?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: He does. He doesn't know if Hal was ever alone
Speaker 1: with his grandma because he kind of passed out a
Speaker 1: little bit. And it turns out How.
Speaker 3: Works at Jubilee Towers.
Speaker 1: Baby, So the next scene is not great. We open
Speaker 1: up on How fighting with a sad old wheelchair bount
Speaker 1: man and he's screaming at him like leave me alone,
Speaker 1: and Benson and Stablers show up and the old man's
Speaker 1: like he's trying to kill me. They question How, and
Speaker 1: How's like this guy's a troublemaker. Like, there's so many troublemakers.
Speaker 1: I got a lot of work to do. And they're like,
Speaker 1: what about Best And they're like, Noah, Bess is a dream,
Speaker 1: he says. And we see her outside just in the courtyard,
Speaker 1: chatting with Munch and Finn and Hal denies doing anything
Speaker 1: to her Best and he's like, I gotta go. I've
Speaker 1: got lives to save. It's like, you are an orderly
Speaker 1: at a nursing home. I mean, I'm sure you have
Speaker 1: the opportunity to save a life, but you are not God. Okay.
Speaker 1: So at the top of act three, they're speaking to
Speaker 1: Hope Mary Kay Place MKP about Hal's record. He's worked
Speaker 1: there a year, he's only had one serious complaint. Who
Speaker 1: is mister Jackson who accused Hall of trying to suffocate him.
Speaker 1: But mister Jackson is senile. We investigated, we didn't find anything.
Speaker 1: And they're like, why would you hire Hall? He like,
Speaker 1: does not seem like a people person, And she's like,
Speaker 1: I mean it's a very low paying job. Not a
Speaker 1: lot of people are into wiping adults butts for you know,
Speaker 1: their profession.
Speaker 3: Minimum wage, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Minimum wage. So Finn and Munch go talk to mister Jackson,
Speaker 1: and he seems pretty with it.
Speaker 3: I will say he's amazing.
Speaker 1: He's painting, and when Munch and Finn walk up to him,
Speaker 1: he goes, you the nude models, I amazing. He says
Speaker 1: Hal is a serial killer, that he pinches him all
Speaker 1: the time, and that so one time mister Jackson bit
Speaker 1: him and how cut off his oxygen and said, you're
Speaker 1: gonna die, old man. Then he goes a little bit
Speaker 1: left and tells them that Hal stopped doing it because
Speaker 1: the clan rooms the hall at night, and calls them
Speaker 1: the sheet people. So we get that he's got moments
Speaker 1: of lucidity, like I truly believe what he says about Hal.
Speaker 1: But then he veers into thinking that the ghosts of
Speaker 1: the clan are in his room hauls at night.
Speaker 3: So but no one can say that they're not. I
Speaker 3: guess that's true. I guess that's true.
Speaker 1: We cannot be sure that clansmen are not roaming the
Speaker 1: halls of the ghosts.
Speaker 3: We can't just deny that there's ghosts chasing You're right.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be a ghost denier. You're right,
Speaker 1: you're right. The next scene, we're at this beauty parlor,
Speaker 1: we get these funny too old ladies gossiping. They're very
Speaker 1: funny and cute in New Yorky. And then this one
Speaker 1: lady explains that when she woke up after she had
Speaker 1: had surgery, so she's like, we get the idea that
Speaker 1: she's been a little bit doped up from her surgery.
Speaker 1: She thought she was being sofcated she started clawing and
Speaker 1: then it stopped, and then hal was standing there scratched
Speaker 1: and bleeding, and then he said, oh, no, you're hallucinating.
Speaker 1: So that's sketchy. So they basically are they're painting this
Speaker 1: picture of how now at the precinct where they're like,
Speaker 1: he pinches residents, he hides their dentures. All the victims
Speaker 1: are doped up or senile, so he's obviously picking and
Speaker 1: choosing who he's messing with. And then Cabot shows up
Speaker 1: with this suit that was a negligence claim against Jubilee
Speaker 1: Towers for ten million dollars. It was settled with an NDA,
Speaker 1: and everyone at Jubilee Towers is named in the suit,
Speaker 1: probably including Hope, including how everybody we've met.
Speaker 3: So far, Hope, and how seems like a sitcom?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. A psychotic A psychotic sitcom set at
Speaker 1: a nursing home. Dalia Brown is the name of the
Speaker 1: woman who died in the suit, and Cabot is already
Speaker 1: working on an exhamation order, So right away we're getting
Speaker 1: a dug up body. They exhumed the body. Warner's doing
Speaker 1: her things. She's like, the skin is in perfect condition. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I didn't really know this about undertaking or embalming. Is
Speaker 1: like they flush out all your blood and replace it
Speaker 1: with formaldehyde. I guess I kind of knew that. I
Speaker 1: just didn't know all your blood.
Speaker 3: Did you?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 3: Watch Six Feet Under? No, I need to watch it.
Speaker 1: I know, I know. Everybody tells me it's like the
Speaker 1: greatest show on Earth. My sister's obsessed. But that takes
Speaker 1: all blood toxicology out of play now because her blood
Speaker 1: is gone. She checks for other toxicology. Nothing's there. And
Speaker 1: the death certificate said cardiac arrest, which she says is
Speaker 1: what Emmy's put. We put that when we really don't
Speaker 1: know what happened, but we don't suspect foul play. But
Speaker 1: we heard in our episode of Lost Traveler that sometimes
Speaker 1: they don't even put that. Remember, there was a person
Speaker 1: that died and they just didn't even have anything, so
Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting. Melinda did notice a puncture
Speaker 1: wound on the woman's arm that was not noted in
Speaker 1: the report and was like a fresh puncture wound, so
Speaker 1: good ie. Elliott and Olivia are back talking to Mary
Speaker 1: kay Place about how they settled with Dalia's family. They
Speaker 1: checked her records and her last meal was delivered by
Speaker 1: somebody with the initials hs hal Shipley. And as they're
Speaker 1: waiting for Hope to give them more information, there's a
Speaker 1: code blue and there's this actress who goes quick get
Speaker 1: the crash cart. Really bad, sorry, really bad extra work.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if that's somebody's aunt or grandma or something,
Speaker 1: but that was not great. And it's room four ten,
Speaker 1: which is Bess's room. They go to Bess's room. Hope
Speaker 1: is leaving the room and she's all flustered and she's like,
Speaker 1: you were right. It was Hell. I saw like. I
Speaker 1: called him into my office after I spoke to you,
Speaker 1: I fired him. He was furious and he stormed out.
Speaker 1: I was worried about Best, so I came to check
Speaker 1: on her. I saw how leaving the room and Bess
Speaker 1: was just low pulse struggling, so I started CPR on her. Olivia,
Speaker 1: as they're wheeling, bess Out notices that she has a
Speaker 1: fresh needle mark on her arm. All the elements are
Speaker 1: coming together, So they track down How while he's taking
Speaker 1: a smoke break and ask him to account for his
Speaker 1: whereabouts for the last fifteen minutes. And he's like, I
Speaker 1: was in a stock room taking inventory, Like he has
Speaker 1: no he's not sweating this at all.
Speaker 2: Now I feel I get the vibe from him that
Speaker 2: his parents didn't believe in him.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's very very that seems very accurate. And he
Speaker 1: either like come down for questioning to the station and
Speaker 1: he's like, am I under arrest? Then no, and then
Speaker 1: Stabor just like kicks his chair and he's like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll come. What like, okay, you were right, you don't
Speaker 1: have to go. And then I wrote in my notes
Speaker 1: Olivia grabs his butt. But what I mean is Olivia
Speaker 1: takes his cigarette butt that he throws out, so she
Speaker 1: grabs that for you know, fingerprints, DNA, etc. How's fingerprint
Speaker 1: is a match for one of the butts at the party.
Speaker 1: And then they say to him, but how many butts
Speaker 1: had seared flesh on the end. But we actually found
Speaker 1: out earlier from the Sexy Csu tech that all flesh
Speaker 1: would have been burnt off the cigarette because cigarettes burn
Speaker 1: at like eight hundred degrees or something crazy, so there
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been any flesh. But they're just bluffing this
Speaker 1: skuy and I love it because they're like iced. He goes,
Speaker 1: there's not any flesh on these cigarettes, and Craigan goes oops,
Speaker 1: just a great Craigan moment. Cop games, so they're like
Speaker 1: that sucks. No confession, no plea bargain. So then Holse
Speaker 1: starts to just sort of like, you know, give it
Speaker 1: all up. He admits to burning Bess. He said Andy
Speaker 1: owed him money, and they're like for what. He's like,
Speaker 1: nothing to do with this, and the cops just let
Speaker 1: that go okay. So he's like, I can't. I kept
Speaker 1: seeing Andy getting money from Grandma Bess, like pulling out
Speaker 1: the checks, and so he thought he would go back
Speaker 1: in and try it. When he did, she yells rape,
Speaker 1: just like she used to do at the home when
Speaker 1: he'd help dress her, which is obviously a response to
Speaker 1: her childhood trauma as well. So he goes over to
Speaker 1: quiet her. Down. He's smoking a cigarette in the old
Speaker 1: lady's bedroom. I don't know. He's got a lit cigarette
Speaker 1: in his hand that accidentally burns her. She starts screaming
Speaker 1: even more and he snaps and he goes, I'll show
Speaker 1: you rape. And that's when he continues to burn her
Speaker 1: and pulls up her night down and burns or in
Speaker 1: all this like horrible stuff. I feel like that's a
Speaker 1: really crazy snap and he should go away for a
Speaker 1: long time to jail. He says he never saw her
Speaker 1: that whole day. He never saw Bess and that when
Speaker 1: she coded, he was in the stock room and he
Speaker 1: can prove it. So they find out that hal was
Speaker 1: stealing drugs from the drug computer. If you ever watched
Speaker 1: if you ever watch Nurse Jackie, you kind of know
Speaker 1: that they get these like hardcore drug computers that dispense
Speaker 1: the certain amount of drugs so that people cannot abuse
Speaker 1: these machines. So he was inputting all these fake nurse
Speaker 1: codes at at the time that best coded, So he
Speaker 1: does have an alibi for the moment of that she
Speaker 1: was you know, quote unquote attacked at Jubilee Towers. They're
Speaker 1: poking around and they find out that Hope has a
Speaker 1: little bit of a reputation for saving patients. She has
Speaker 1: saved besides Best, two other patients. Meanwhile, we see that
Speaker 1: Joe is pulling Best out of Jubilee Towers.
Speaker 3: Andy's there too.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'll bring you some other brouchers for other
Speaker 1: nursing homes, Grandma, And meanwhile Best keeps telling Joe to
Speaker 1: shut the fuck up. She's like, can somebody shut this
Speaker 1: man up? I hate him like her own son. She's like, stup,
Speaker 1: make him stop. And he tells Olivia that the protective
Speaker 1: order has been dropped, so he's allowed to take her out,
Speaker 1: and Olivia says, oh, I heard the misappropriation of funds
Speaker 1: investigation is just beginning. So then Hope walks in and
Speaker 1: she tells Joe how Bess is one of her favorites
Speaker 1: and nothing's going to happen to her while she's here,
Speaker 1: and then we kind of see Olivia. We get a
Speaker 1: close up on Olivia just noticing like something is off here.
Speaker 1: So then she starts talking to Hope about, oh, you've
Speaker 1: saved all these patients except for that one man who died,
Speaker 1: and Hope's like telling this very sketchy story about how
Speaker 1: she tried to revive the man. He was already dead,
Speaker 1: but she started doing CPR on him. Anyway, It's just
Speaker 1: a very it just feels like she's lying. She's kind
Speaker 1: of switching back and forth between details, and we go
Speaker 1: back to the precinct where Olivia is like, this woman's
Speaker 1: a wacko. Something's up, and Huong is explaining malignant hero syndrome,
Speaker 1: which is when someone sets up a dangerous situation in
Speaker 1: so they can swoop in and save the day, like
Speaker 1: a fireman setting fires. It's essentially like Munchausen biproxy. It's
Speaker 1: just not with your own kid. It's like you're endangering
Speaker 1: somebody else and then saving them.
Speaker 2: Being a hero is intoxicating because one time our friend
Speaker 2: Mike Joyce, he lost his glasses in the ocean and
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to be a hero right now,
Speaker 2: And in the fucking ocean, I reached down and I
Speaker 2: found his glasses and I put I put my hand
Speaker 2: up into the sky and I swear, I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: this is this was six years ago. I'm still talking
Speaker 2: about it. It did feel amazing, and I did save
Speaker 2: the day. I just understand people that want to be heroes.
Speaker 2: Because it does. It does feel good.
Speaker 1: It does feel good, but yeah, don't put people in danger.
Speaker 1: So best is talk. Screen shows that she had epinephrine
Speaker 1: in her system. So this is Wong looking at the
Speaker 1: file being like, why does she have epineffrin in her system?
Speaker 1: And that's what they give you when your heart stops,
Speaker 1: and I believe that's also what's in like an EpiPen
Speaker 1: when you get you know, sung by a bee or
Speaker 1: have a shellfish reaction. Wong said that she wouldn't have
Speaker 1: needed that because if CPR got her heart started again,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have needed that, and it was not noted
Speaker 1: in her chart that she was given that, so that
Speaker 1: would definitely speed up her heartbreak and mimic a heart attack.
Speaker 1: So that's very sketchy. We look into Hopes passed a
Speaker 1: little bit and she was a nurse, so she would
Speaker 1: know how to administer something like epinephrine, and she worked
Speaker 1: at Oak Glade Nursing Home and her license was revoked
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago for gross negligence for failure to dilute
Speaker 1: potassium chloride doses. We're back at Jubilee Towers and Elliott
Speaker 1: and Olivia bust In on Mary Kay Place Hope giving
Speaker 1: a tour, and they said, well, how's princes weren't on
Speaker 1: any of the syringes, but we found your prince on
Speaker 1: one of the syringes of FB at the nurses station,
Speaker 1: and she's like, why are you trying to embarrass me?
Speaker 1: People can hear you, So it's you know, that's sort
Speaker 1: of like a I think that's like an interesting line
Speaker 1: that they put in about how she really cares how
Speaker 1: people perceive her. You know, she wants to be perceived
Speaker 1: as the hero. She just want to be embarrassed. You know,
Speaker 1: she's very into this upscale assistance living facility that she
Speaker 1: works in, in her reputation and all that. So they
Speaker 1: arrest her and then in the final scene, we're at trial.
Speaker 1: Melinda Warner is testifying that she examined the records of
Speaker 1: twenty two deaths between nineteen eighty two and nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: seven at Oak Glade, the old nursing home she worked at,
Speaker 1: and found evidence of potassium poisoning in seven of them.
Speaker 1: It wasn't originally discovered because people expect the elderly to die,
Speaker 1: and I guess autopsies are only performed in one out
Speaker 1: of twenty five If anyone listening knows that there are
Speaker 1: more current stats on that. Let me know, because that
Speaker 1: seems like that seems like not that many autopsies. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know people are, you know, eventually die, but I don't.
Speaker 1: Families want to know why. I don't know. So and
Speaker 1: when when cells die, they release potassium, so it would
Speaker 1: have been undetectable. She found it by examining ekg's and
Speaker 1: basically discovered, she says, a bunch of medical mumbo jumbar,
Speaker 1: but in Layman's terms, said that it all showed that
Speaker 1: all of their hearts were beating too fast. None of
Speaker 1: them had kidney disease, so the potassium was deaf only
Speaker 1: introduced to them from an outside source. Someone administering a
Speaker 1: lethal dose. Hope interrupts with like a big thing, like,
Speaker 1: doctor's fuck up all the time, you have no idea?
Speaker 1: I cover their asses. And then Warner also reveals that
Speaker 1: in every single one of these seven cases of death,
Speaker 1: Hope Garrett was the administering nurse. She totally flips out
Speaker 1: and is like they were at death's door, and then
Speaker 1: she goes to Cabot, I help people.
Speaker 5: What do you do?
Speaker 3: You stupid bitch?
Speaker 1: Is the great I just love the line.
Speaker 3: It's so good.
Speaker 1: We love Cabot too. This is a great Cabot episode.
Speaker 1: She's so gourge and perfect and basically Hope is just
Speaker 1: having a full breakdown. Her lawyer's telling her to calm down.
Speaker 1: They have to take the jury out. Hope is freaking out,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I didn't kill anyone. Maybe a few
Speaker 1: of them wouldn't pull through for me, but I have
Speaker 1: saved hundreds. And she's screaming all this as she's being
Speaker 1: escorted out by the bailiffs and then created by Dick Wolf.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, that's actually my dream role now
Speaker 2: on SVU. I want to be carried out by a Bayliff. Yeah,
Speaker 2: after a breakdown. I think that's a freak attack until.
Speaker 3: You carry it out.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's I could see you handling that easily.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's episode I I'm sorry if I
Speaker 1: rushed through it. They just literally went to seventy five
Speaker 1: different locations in this episode, and there was just a
Speaker 1: lot going on, but ultimately, you know, heartbreaking because there
Speaker 1: really is so much elder abuse that goes on with
Speaker 1: poor elderly people, and Lisa is going to take us
Speaker 1: into that world, I believe as soon as we come
Speaker 1: back from.
Speaker 3: The break, all right, welcome back.
Speaker 2: So we're going to be talking about a murderous fucking nurse.
Speaker 2: Is Kristin Gilbert And this takes place in about nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety five is when the investigation and like this starts.
Speaker 2: And I watched Snapped and I've never seen Snapped, so
Speaker 2: it's pretty thrilling.
Speaker 3: And there was one.
Speaker 2: Investigator they started like, he was called in around two
Speaker 2: thousand and six and he was really excited. He goes,
Speaker 2: I'll never forget it because it was a leapier and
Speaker 2: I just like a grown man being thrilled that it
Speaker 2: was a leapyer. So Kristen worked at a VA hospital
Speaker 2: in Northampton, Massachusetts, and it's like a super chill town.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Northampton I've been to many times and it's very
Speaker 1: it's like lesbian folk rock capital, like very cool. It's
Speaker 1: like where Smith is there, I believe Smith College. Like
Speaker 1: there's just a lot of great It's just a cute
Speaker 1: ass little town.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the murder rate is basically zero.
Speaker 2: There's a murder like one every two years, but all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, the death rates spiked and it was
Speaker 2: all because of the veterans hospital very suspicious and doctor
Speaker 2: Greg Blackman, one of Kristen's coworkers, said, it's pretty alarming
Speaker 2: the amounts of codes and deaths because usually they expect
Speaker 2: veterans to get better and leave. It's not It's not
Speaker 2: a place like I said, it's a chill fucking town,
Speaker 2: chill hospital just coming in for help and leaving. So
Speaker 2: to get a little background on Kristen, there was a
Speaker 2: few professionals and they said, like it's kind of classic
Speaker 2: for women killers, where she was just obsessed with attention.
Speaker 2: She liked being the center of attention all the time,
Speaker 2: no matter what it took. She once lied that and
Speaker 2: said her mom was an abusive alcoholic. She was just
Speaker 2: always like making shit up. If boyfriends broke up with her,
Speaker 2: she said she was going to kill herself.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know if we all know someone
Speaker 3: like that or not.
Speaker 2: I definitely do, But yeah, she's a chronic liar and manipulator,
Speaker 2: and with people like this like no attentions enough and
Speaker 2: they'll do whatever it needs to do. That which is
Speaker 2: using why she would become a nurse, because nurses are
Speaker 2: usually very selfless and caretakers and it's just about the
Speaker 2: work and the patients.
Speaker 3: So that is very strange for someone of that nature maybe.
Speaker 1: To set herself up to be a malignant hero syndrome person.
Speaker 3: You know it. Maybe.
Speaker 2: So in nineteen eighty eight she graduates nursing school and
Speaker 2: that's when she starts working at the VA Center. She's
Speaker 2: also married to this guy named Glenn, Glenn Gilbert.
Speaker 3: She had two boys.
Speaker 2: On all accounts, she liked being a mom, and she
Speaker 2: was just kind of like a basic gal, you know,
Speaker 2: a nurse, married mom, whatever, living the life in Northampton.
Speaker 2: But then shit got wild because her and her husband
Speaker 2: would fight, and then she chased him around with a
Speaker 2: giant knife and he had to lock himself in the
Speaker 2: room until she like she had a chill. So we
Speaker 2: realized something was wrong, and the marriage just kept getting
Speaker 2: worse and worse because usually with people that love attention,
Speaker 2: when you fall in love, that's the intoxicating fun part,
Speaker 2: and then when you know it's just like a marriage,
Speaker 2: it gets boring and people like this get bored.
Speaker 3: I'm not married, but.
Speaker 2: You know it's not as thrilling, you know, it's not
Speaker 2: like all that oxytocin or whatever rushing to your brain
Speaker 2: all the time. So the husband started realizing something was up.
Speaker 2: You know, her craving for attention got pretty strong, and
Speaker 2: she began an affair with the hospital security guard, James Ferrell,
Speaker 2: and that's when Glenn filed for divorce, and so she
Speaker 2: was just like fucking the security guard and they had
Speaker 2: a really great time. And right after the affair began
Speaker 2: is when the deaths started to occur.
Speaker 3: So it all came together.
Speaker 2: The first victim of this deadly deadly nurse was Stanley Jigadowski.
Speaker 2: He was sixty six years old and a veteran of
Speaker 2: the Korean War, and doctor Blackman, who I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 2: looked at his charts. Everything was fine, he had a
Speaker 2: healthy heart, and he expected him to be fine.
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden he codd and his.
Speaker 2: Heart stopped beating and he was dead, and it was
Speaker 2: just you know, the doctor actually was like crying when
Speaker 2: talking about it.
Speaker 3: He's like, we weren't supposed to lose him.
Speaker 2: And he's like a very passionate, empathetic dude, like he
Speaker 2: was like, what, you know, he was very upset by this.
Speaker 2: And so February eighth, nineteen ninety five was the second
Speaker 2: suspicious death, and it was a much much younger patient.
Speaker 2: It was a thirty five year old man, Henry Hudon,
Speaker 2: and he had the flu. So they brought him into
Speaker 2: the VA hospital and they were gonna like charge, you know,
Speaker 2: it's just a flu. They were just going to deal
Speaker 2: with it and everything was going to be fine. He
Speaker 2: did have a head injury from when he served, and
Speaker 2: so he was diagnosed after that with paranoid schizophrenia, but
Speaker 2: outside of that he was in very good shape with
Speaker 2: no physical conditions. Again, doctor Blackman checked on him. Everything
Speaker 2: looked fine. He went downstairs and within the hour there
Speaker 2: was a code and he was in cardiac arrest and
Speaker 2: so they began CPR and he came back and so
Speaker 2: that was amazing.
Speaker 3: And then Kristin out loud says, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Be so happy, and doctor Blackman said, what do you
Speaker 2: even mean by that? And she goes, Wow, he's a schizophrenic,
Speaker 2: And so that's pretty alarming, Like not only is that
Speaker 2: a statement, that's pretty fucked like in general, like you
Speaker 2: wouldn't want someone that has schizophrenia to live, but as
Speaker 2: a nurse and a caretaker and you're in charge of
Speaker 2: their well being, to be like, it's a shame we
Speaker 2: saved him, Like let this person die.
Speaker 1: As a nurse, you should never be quantifying like people
Speaker 1: or like calculating people's like quality of life and their
Speaker 1: like deservedness to live right, like everyone you have to
Speaker 1: try to save everyone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely it. Because when my dad had heart surgery,
Speaker 2: he was kind of causing problems on the floor and
Speaker 2: I talked to our friend Lindsay was a nurse, and
Speaker 2: she was like, they're all fucking annoying.
Speaker 3: Don't worry.
Speaker 2: I never give worse care when someone's annoying, all right,
Speaker 2: annoying patients, And so that helped me because I was like,
Speaker 2: are the nurses gonna smother him? Like he truly was
Speaker 2: causing a lot of problem this summer at the hospital.
Speaker 2: So doctor Blackman thought it was definitely fucked up. And
Speaker 2: then he went into cardiac arrest three more times in
Speaker 2: a six hour period, and then the third time his
Speaker 2: heart finally gave out.
Speaker 3: I know, it's really upsetting.
Speaker 2: And in this episode of Snapped, they talked to Henry's sister,
Speaker 2: who of course is so upset, and she go like,
Speaker 2: with all this, I mean, we find out it's obviously
Speaker 2: this woman, Kristen, We're not living in a mystery right now.
Speaker 2: I'm not hiding deets. And the sister says, that's what's
Speaker 2: so tough. It's like when you're at war and you're
Speaker 2: in the military, you know who your enemy is, and
Speaker 2: it's just so much more fucked up here because you're
Speaker 2: expecting good healthcare at this VA hospital and it's just
Speaker 2: so fucked up that you don't know who your enemy is.
Speaker 1: And you're literally, like, to quote the title of the episode,
Speaker 1: you're vulnerable, like you're in the hands of these people
Speaker 1: and like they have your life in their hands.
Speaker 3: I'm very impressed. How you put that together? Kara very impressed.
Speaker 2: So February ninth, ninety six, a year later, a forty
Speaker 2: one year old Kenneth Cutting comes in and he has sepsis.
Speaker 2: He's an army vet, husband, parent, and his heart was
Speaker 2: totally fine.
Speaker 3: You obviously get the pattern.
Speaker 2: All these people are very healthy, and Kristen says to
Speaker 2: a supervisor, if this guy dies by eight pm, can
Speaker 2: I go home early so I can go.
Speaker 3: On a date.
Speaker 2: So she said this to her supervisor, like if this
Speaker 2: guy croaks, can I go party? I just don't know
Speaker 2: how she like, why it's kind of shocking that no
Speaker 2: one is doing anything with all of these comments being made.
Speaker 2: I don't And then later that night there is a
Speaker 2: code and he died of cardiac arrests forty one years
Speaker 2: old and no apparent reason for death, and she got.
Speaker 3: To go out and with this.
Speaker 2: So, like every time there was a code, her boyfriend
Speaker 2: who is a security guard, but all the security guards
Speaker 2: and everyone at that hospital is trained in CPR and like,
Speaker 2: you know, resuscitating people, that's part of it, and he
Speaker 2: is a first responder, so the boyfriend would always be
Speaker 2: in there, so like Kristen was always first in the
Speaker 2: room with these codes, and the boyfriend would run in
Speaker 2: and she would like get on top of these men
Speaker 2: to give them CPR and was putting on a show
Speaker 2: for her boyfriend, Like she liked the attention of this
Speaker 2: guy watching her try to save these people. So it
Speaker 2: was also like a weird, kinky game on top of murder,
Speaker 2: like that she it was all for attention from this
Speaker 2: guy as well. And what was annoying is like when
Speaker 2: the news of all of this came out, the media
Speaker 2: spinned it as like this romance and really focused on
Speaker 2: this romance when it's kind of a side part to
Speaker 2: all of this. But yeah, so she did it to
Speaker 2: fucking flirt, which was fucked up. Witnesses say that she
Speaker 2: would openly flirt right in front of the struggling humans
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, and when he would do CPR, she would
Speaker 2: make comments how she liked the way his muscles moved.
Speaker 3: Classic flirting. Sick o sick oh for sure.
Speaker 2: And the experts that study this case, they say that
Speaker 2: the murder, like the deaths, is kind of a side effect.
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't like she was trying to murder. It's
Speaker 2: just like kind of what happens. It's a side effect
Speaker 2: of getting the attention, which is I don't know how to.
Speaker 1: Maget about that fat I mean, it's similar to the
Speaker 1: character I don't think she was from the show. She
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to murder people. She wanted the hero worship
Speaker 1: and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so a lot of the coworkers started calling
Speaker 2: her Angel of Death, but it was just ingest and
Speaker 2: they thought she had bad luck and they didn't really
Speaker 2: believe she was killing patients. But then four weeks later,
Speaker 2: the fourth death occurs under Kristen's care. Edwards squire a
Speaker 2: World War two veteran. He had a seizure from alcoholic withdrawal,
Speaker 2: and you usually give them valume and they get better.
Speaker 2: But later that night he stopped breathing from a heart attack.
Speaker 2: And you don't just go into cardiac arrest from a seizure,
Speaker 2: right They let us know that.
Speaker 1: And FYI, I'm that's a crazy nickname to give a
Speaker 1: nurse Angel of Death. I don't care if it's like
Speaker 1: in jest. That's fucking nuts, Like you're not like, oh,
Speaker 1: we call Bernie here the incinerator on the fire at
Speaker 1: the firehouse, you know, because he's always involved in these
Speaker 1: really really deadly fires. Like it's just fucked up it is.
Speaker 2: But this, this final one, made the other nurses realize this,
Speaker 2: it wasn't just some bad luck and something's going on.
Speaker 2: So one nurse started looking for evidence, and what she
Speaker 2: found shocked her. She checked the hazard's box and inside
Speaker 2: she found three broken ampules for epinephrine with such a
Speaker 2: strong dose they would never use on that floor of
Speaker 2: the hospital. I guess those are for really like intense cases.
Speaker 2: And this dose of epinephrine did not belong. And epinephrine
Speaker 2: is a synthetic heart stimulant, for those wondering, And I
Speaker 2: did practice how to say epinephrine many times before we
Speaker 2: sat down here today. So three other nurses went to
Speaker 2: the supervisors after all this, and that was the tipping point.
Speaker 2: And then this is when investigators got involved with the case.
Speaker 2: So this is where the leap ear comes. In February
Speaker 2: twenty ninth and nineteen ninety six, this main investigator gets
Speaker 2: a call. They start matching the deaths to her schedule.
Speaker 2: When she worked evenings, there were spike and deaths. When
Speaker 2: she worked in the day, there was a spike in deaths,
Speaker 2: and the deaths followed her and James, the security guard,
Speaker 2: started to believe these rumors and so he didn't like it,
Speaker 2: so Ardie, so when the criminal investigation heated up, he
Speaker 2: said peace out, Gal and ended that relationship. Gilbert obviously
Speaker 2: did not take this well and said she was going
Speaker 2: to kill herself. Kristen started to panic. She had no husband,
Speaker 2: no friends, and no boyfriend. And experts believe when a
Speaker 2: person like this, who believes they're in control, starts to
Speaker 2: get cornered and things start cracking, they tend to do
Speaker 2: something extreme. So what is Kristin Gilbert going to do?
Speaker 2: September twenty sixth, nineteen ninety six. She calls the VA
Speaker 2: Medical Center and says, there are three explosive device is
Speaker 2: in the building and they're going to explode in twenty
Speaker 2: five minutes and I'll see you in hell.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So she calls in a bomb threat, and a bomb
Speaker 2: threat is a serious thing, in case you.
Speaker 1: Didn't know, in case you were unaware.
Speaker 3: That's not cute, not cute that I want to use
Speaker 3: that term more often. I don't say that enough. Not cute.
Speaker 2: So they evacuate fifty acutely old patients in the cold,
Speaker 2: and it's a lot of work to get everyone out.
Speaker 3: Luckily nobody died.
Speaker 2: There was no bomb, but this bogus threat was like
Speaker 2: the big break in the case. And what she didn't
Speaker 2: know was she was under surveillance this whole time. So
Speaker 2: the person following her saw her go to the payphone
Speaker 2: and make this call.
Speaker 1: Who, in my mind, is just Stabler. It's just Stabler's
Speaker 1: in the car following her.
Speaker 3: Yes, go on.
Speaker 2: After the bomb threat, they got a warrant to search
Speaker 2: her home. So a DA was quick on their feet,
Speaker 2: and Kristen was alone in there, and she they said
Speaker 2: that she was like dumbfounded and was like whatever, I
Speaker 2: don't know, you're not going to find anything.
Speaker 3: But she's just not that smart. They found everything that
Speaker 3: they needed.
Speaker 2: They found the jacket on her bed that she was
Speaker 2: wearing when she made the call that she was id'd
Speaker 2: in by the surveillance guy, and inside the jacket there
Speaker 2: was operating instructions on the device to change your voice
Speaker 2: the like.
Speaker 1: The call is coming from inside the house machine that
Speaker 1: you can use.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually amazing. It was a talk boy. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you remember that toy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, talkboy.
Speaker 2: So then they find the talk boy in a box
Speaker 2: in the kid's bedroom. So they have the talk boy,
Speaker 2: they have the instructions, they have the jacket, and they
Speaker 2: took a bunch of journals, computers, medical books, they took
Speaker 2: everything from there. And they took a drug book that
Speaker 2: was dog eared on the page explaining epinephrine, which is circumstantial,
Speaker 2: but you know, yeah, they were happy to find that.
Speaker 2: So they had all the evidence for the bomb threat,
Speaker 2: but they needed evidence to.
Speaker 3: Get her on these murders.
Speaker 2: But because of the bomb threat, she was sentenced to
Speaker 2: fifteen months in federal penitentiary. She was sentenced to fifteen
Speaker 2: months in federal penitentent I can't say it penitentiary.
Speaker 1: In a federal penitentiary.
Speaker 2: Fifteen months in a federal penitentiary, I can't say it penitentiary, penitentiary, penitentiary.
Speaker 3: This all stays in penitentiary.
Speaker 2: Okay, fifteen months in a federal penitentiary in Connecticut. You
Speaker 2: should be a speech therapist. JK, you're very good at this.
Speaker 2: Please don't go to CLS school again. So in there
Speaker 2: there was a suicide attempt and she got a psych
Speaker 2: evaluation and they figured out that she was borderline personality disorder.
Speaker 2: Like I've said earlier, loves attention, craves chaos in an arena.
Speaker 2: They can manipulate to their advantage. Use whatever they need
Speaker 2: to draw attention to themselves, pretend to be victims, whatever
Speaker 2: it takes to keep the focus on themselves. Jail time
Speaker 2: kept her so they can investigate and do more interviews
Speaker 2: and just be free to dig deep. Victims' bodies became
Speaker 2: the number one piece of evidence, but all the bodies
Speaker 2: had been laid to rest, but without this evidence like
Speaker 2: they needed the body evidence like in the episode of SVU.
Speaker 2: They needed to prove the epinephrine was in the body
Speaker 2: or they didn't have a solid case. So authorities decided
Speaker 2: to exhume some of the bodies and it was worth it,
Speaker 2: and they found what they were looking for, lethal amounts
Speaker 2: of epinephrin in the body. It also showed them that
Speaker 2: all these patients had good hearts and without the bodies
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be able to bring upon charges. So very
Speaker 2: happy that they were allowed to do that. And this
Speaker 2: case got a lot of extra media attention because since
Speaker 2: the VA Hospital is federal property, she could get the
Speaker 2: death penalty, which is not allowed in Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: Wow wow, Yeah, she would be.
Speaker 2: The first defendant in a capital felony case eligible for
Speaker 2: the death penalty since the nineteen fifty. She did plead
Speaker 2: not guilty and they say Kristin Gilbert had no reaction
Speaker 2: at all in the courtroom to what anybody said or did.
Speaker 3: She was deadpan and cold.
Speaker 2: She was found guilty of four counts of first degree
Speaker 2: murder and three counts of attempted murder.
Speaker 1: Damn.
Speaker 2: She got life in prison, but not the death penalty.
Speaker 2: She is currently serving her life sentence in Fort Worth, Texas.
Speaker 2: After her conviction, she maintained her innocence and began a
Speaker 2: federal appeals process, but she dropped that when after a
Speaker 2: recent US Supreme Court ruling would have allowed prosecutors to
Speaker 2: pursue the death penalty if she was granted a new trial.
Speaker 2: So didn't seem worth it to her.
Speaker 1: Wow, So she was like, if I go for it,
Speaker 1: I'm probably going to get convicted again and I'm going
Speaker 1: to get the death penalty.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 5: Wowow.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So that is the case of Kristin Gilbert.
Speaker 1: Wow. Fascinating. I mean, I there's another SVU episode with
Speaker 1: Jane kerk Kowski where she is sort of an angel
Speaker 1: of mercy where she's killing like people that are on
Speaker 1: their death with the air embolism.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is like such a different thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, the terror that people must
Speaker 1: go through having like a fucking heart attack that she
Speaker 1: brought on for them, is that's really that's really bout.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, Kristen doesn't look anything like Mary
Speaker 2: Kay place, but I imagine Mary Kay the whole time,
Speaker 2: Like I can't. I just yeah, I imagined her doing
Speaker 2: all of these murders.
Speaker 1: Wow, Lisa, amazing work. That was a really crazy story.
Speaker 1: And now let's get to our guest, all right, we
Speaker 1: are so excited for our next guest. He's truly we
Speaker 1: had the best time talking to him. You've seen him
Speaker 1: in the Cameron Diaz movie In Her Shoes, You've probably
Speaker 1: seen him as Franklin Winthrop on OZ, and he's literally
Speaker 1: been in every seed drill you've ever heard of, Criminal Intent, YPD,
Speaker 1: blue CSI, et cetera, et cetera. Guys, we're so excited
Speaker 1: to talk to the worst assisted living employee of all time,
Speaker 1: Hal Shipley, Mister Andy Powers. Can we just ask a
Speaker 1: quick logistical question because we weren't sure exactly of the dates,
Speaker 1: but did you work with Christopher Maloney on SVU first
Speaker 1: or when he murdered you on OZ?
Speaker 6: Like just a few months right after he killed me
Speaker 6: on OS he busted me on SPU.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, cool, So the SVU was kind of a
Speaker 1: little reunion.
Speaker 3: So were you guys pals?
Speaker 5: I wouldn't say we're pals.
Speaker 6: I mean he's a pretty intense guy on set, you.
Speaker 3: Know, that's what we've heard. We heard he stretches a lot.
Speaker 5: I owe him.
Speaker 6: The only time I ever worked with him on OZ
Speaker 6: was that episode where he kills me because I had
Speaker 6: murdered his lover's father before that, So we filmed the
Speaker 6: scene in the gym, and then I think that day
Speaker 6: we walked over to the closet where he kills me
Speaker 6: and I had to make out with him spits on
Speaker 6: my dead body and yeah.
Speaker 5: And then a few months later he like puts me
Speaker 5: in handcuffs in SBU.
Speaker 3: Wow. So I watched OZ way too young, like in
Speaker 3: junior high. That was watching.
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure, and yeah it was such a fucked show.
Speaker 3: Did you do you have memories working with JK. Simmons.
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love JK.
Speaker 6: He's a nice guy, real, really nice guy, down to earth.
Speaker 5: He was a lot of fun to be around him.
Speaker 1: And Rick Rogers where he looks like he has that energy.
Speaker 3: I would love to hang out with JK. Simmons.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's just sort of that non plus eternally non
Speaker 6: plus gu Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of OZ SVU overlap. I think
Speaker 2: there's something to it or is it just New York
Speaker 2: actors booking it all?
Speaker 6: I think at the time that you know, back then
Speaker 6: there were fewer actors in New York because there were
Speaker 6: fewer shows.
Speaker 5: I think about my.
Speaker 6: Time in la Is like before and after in New York, And.
Speaker 5: Before I went to LA which.
Speaker 6: Was like two thousand and one, there were like eight
Speaker 6: or nine shows, not including soap operas, filming in the
Speaker 6: entire city. And when I came back, there's you know,
Speaker 6: thirty you know at any given moment, you know, either
Speaker 6: in production, pilots or something like that. Like to the
Speaker 6: point that there was literally only three or four places
Speaker 6: that you could have a studio in New York, and
Speaker 6: now there's thirty. There's like all over Brooklyn, parts of Queen's.
Speaker 6: There's still the West Side where you know, Law and
Speaker 6: Order has their stuff, and now there's stuff up in Yonkers,
Speaker 6: you know, so oh wow.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: We shot Odds in a dilapidated naval yard in Bayo,
Speaker 6: New Jersey, like it used to be in the Chelsea
Speaker 6: or Chelsea Market, and by the time I got there,
Speaker 6: it was you had have like, you know, special you
Speaker 6: couldn't be a felon I think or something because it
Speaker 6: was technically still a military base.
Speaker 5: And like there were pigeons all over the place about
Speaker 5: your head and it was pretty it was pretty weird. Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I unfortunately have never watched OZ, but I did
Speaker 1: check out some screenshots of your character and that looked
Speaker 1: like a pretty I mean, can I just say what
Speaker 1: it says about your character?
Speaker 3: It says that you are a.
Speaker 1: Convicted a convicted rapist turned neo Nazi cross dresser.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was they were trying to cover a lot
Speaker 6: of basis.
Speaker 3: That's an epic description.
Speaker 5: It was pretty awesome. It's the only thing, you know,
Speaker 5: It's the only thing.
Speaker 6: I don't really get recognized anymore. But when I when
Speaker 6: I did, it was only from that.
Speaker 5: It didn't matter what I did, it was it was that.
Speaker 1: I can't believe they recognized you without the pigtails they do.
Speaker 5: It's crazy.
Speaker 1: Well, just to bring it back a little bit to SVU,
Speaker 1: So before you did us view like or and then
Speaker 1: you were on another episode like more recently. So are
Speaker 1: you a fan of the show? Do you watch it
Speaker 1: at all?
Speaker 3: I mean or?
Speaker 5: I do, and my wife loves it and she watched it.
Speaker 6: He's watching it all the time, So that means I'm
Speaker 6: watching it and she's Actually I've been grandfathered into a
Speaker 6: friendship that she has with Raoula Sparza and his wife.
Speaker 5: They've been really close for a long time.
Speaker 1: Oh that's exciting. Well, you should tell your wife to
Speaker 1: listen to our podcast, she'd probably love it.
Speaker 6: Oh I did, I did. Yeah, she's excited to hear it.
Speaker 6: She's downstairs right now.
Speaker 3: But our listeners are very horny for Raoul.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, yes, he's a sexy man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they love that. How was doing this episode with
Speaker 1: like a lot of older actors, Like, you know, it's
Speaker 1: sort of a different that's kind of a different kind
Speaker 1: of set. You were like at this nursing home set
Speaker 1: with all these like when we first meet your character,
Speaker 1: you're like having a fight with an old man over
Speaker 1: like a tray or something.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's interesting because some of these people have been
Speaker 6: acting for fifty years, you know, and they want you
Speaker 6: to remember it.
Speaker 5: And now that I'm getting older, I understand the attitude.
Speaker 6: You know, they don't you know, these these folks have
Speaker 6: been theater actors since you know they heyday of experimental
Speaker 6: theater in New York.
Speaker 5: In the nineteen sixties and stuff.
Speaker 6: So I just remember them being, you know, very intense,
Speaker 6: having that kind of layover of like Lee Strasberg stuff,
Speaker 6: getting a new character to throw something at me or
Speaker 6: you know. It was fun, but I only had I
Speaker 6: think I only had this scene with that one guy
Speaker 6: like I said, it was a long time ago.
Speaker 1: I guess that's true. I guess we never really see
Speaker 1: you together with the main woman of the episode.
Speaker 5: That's Jane Powell. Yeah, she's from The Birds.
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah she I didn't get to meet her, unfortunately,
Speaker 6: but I hear she was nice.
Speaker 1: Your characters are so like in twin but you never
Speaker 1: actually see you two together.
Speaker 3: Interesting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was kind of remiss about that. I wanted
Speaker 5: to see her.
Speaker 6: It was my mom always talked about that movie being
Speaker 6: so terrifying to her, and I didn't get to meet her.
Speaker 3: She's great, She was great.
Speaker 2: And then you were on Zero Tolerance recently playing a
Speaker 2: terrible person.
Speaker 3: Do you remember it was the ice guy.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So that little girl is so freaking cute. And then
Speaker 2: she just the most amazing actress.
Speaker 3: How was she crying like that?
Speaker 5: She could just turn it on.
Speaker 6: I haven't worked with kids all that much, but she
Speaker 6: took a minimum of minimal of coaching. You know, she
Speaker 6: just kind of had you know, a lot of times
Speaker 6: they had people on set for kids to kind of
Speaker 6: tell them where to look and you know, how to
Speaker 6: do things.
Speaker 5: But she kind of knew she was up to and
Speaker 5: she was really focused on trying to eat more pizza, and.
Speaker 6: They kind of like they wanted they didn't want to
Speaker 6: like sugar, you know, to like crash from eating too
Speaker 6: much for the shots and stuff, but she would they
Speaker 6: would just start filming and it was there.
Speaker 5: I was I was really jealous and I was like,
Speaker 5: I can't do that. That's pretty awesome.
Speaker 2: And then did you notice any changes on the set
Speaker 2: from being like season four? And then I think was
Speaker 2: it season twenty was zero tolerance? Like was it the
Speaker 2: same vibe or have things changed now?
Speaker 5: Things have changed? You know, people are tired.
Speaker 6: It's such I mean, it was a pretty well oiled
Speaker 6: machine when I worked on it the first time, but
Speaker 6: the second time, it was just people can do it
Speaker 6: literally their eyes closed.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 6: They like Ice Tea was really funny the second time
Speaker 6: we did it. He's just sort of this spectral presence
Speaker 6: that's never around and somebody will ask like, okay, where's
Speaker 6: iced Tea, or you know, we've got to shoot, and
Speaker 6: suddenly he's there and you don't remember when he left
Speaker 6: or how we got back.
Speaker 5: And he's just there.
Speaker 6: And he's like half asleep, and then he just kind
Speaker 6: of wakes up and does his lines.
Speaker 5: And he does it like one or two takes and
Speaker 5: he's done. Wow. Wow, Yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker 2: And then this is another crazy question for this being
Speaker 2: so long ago, but was that a real cigarette you
Speaker 2: were smoking or what do you smoke on set?
Speaker 5: Oh? No, that was real back then? I was I
Speaker 5: think it was.
Speaker 6: I mean there was, I think yeah, because I can't
Speaker 6: I'm allergic to like all the catnip and crap they
Speaker 6: put in the fake cigarette.
Speaker 5: So I was still a smoker, I was saying.
Speaker 1: I was telling Lisa, the fake ones are almost worse,
Speaker 1: Like they hurt your.
Speaker 5: Throat a lot, they keep you from smoking.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're awful, but they're orange too or something.
Speaker 5: I was still a hardcore smoker back then, so I
Speaker 5: had no problem, no problem. Yeah, you need another take,
Speaker 5: I'm in.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And you got to flip your shit and like
Speaker 3: kick stuff. That was fun.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You can tell you're a good actor because you really
Speaker 1: are coming across like a very nice sound to earth guy.
Speaker 1: And your character was like psycho, like I mean, he
Speaker 1: just was like I just snapped. It's like snapping is
Speaker 1: one thing. Burning an old lady all over her body
Speaker 1: with a cigarette is quite another. Like you you really,
Speaker 1: but you really gave us the character so great job.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean if somebody actually does that, don't hire them,
Speaker 6: you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, and now we have a game.
Speaker 2: You've been on a lot of cop shows, so we're
Speaker 2: gonna ask, like, if you needed help, what police group would.
Speaker 3: You want to show up to help you.
Speaker 2: You get to choose from Third Watch, Criminal Intent, CSI,
Speaker 2: Blue Bloods, NYPD Blue, or SVU.
Speaker 6: I think I'd go with with with NYPD Blue, Okay,
Speaker 6: showing up.
Speaker 5: He's so tough, he's so tough. He's a sweetheart, but
Speaker 5: he is so tough.
Speaker 6: He has that Chicago like toughness that just exudes from him.
Speaker 6: And when I shook his hand, it was like a rock.
Speaker 5: With fingers, you know, it was I remember, it hurt,
Speaker 5: you know. And and he's much new.
Speaker 6: You think he's like Danny DeVito small, yes, and he's not.
Speaker 6: He's almost He's like almost six feet tall, and he's
Speaker 6: stocky and really really really strong. So I probably vote
Speaker 6: I probably ask him to come because he kind of
Speaker 6: bends the rules, so he would probably, like, you know,
Speaker 6: vehemently come to my defense if I had to call him,
Speaker 6: you know, versus someone who goes just.
Speaker 5: By the book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great answer.
Speaker 1: He's got Stabler vibes for sure.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for talking to us. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you have any last minute SVU memories you want
Speaker 1: to share with us, but this has been great.
Speaker 3: You can throw in an OS one for me.
Speaker 5: You'll probably edit this out.
Speaker 6: But the odd story is that when he killed me,
Speaker 6: he had this idea.
Speaker 5: To jerk off over my dead body.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, can I say that on your podcast? That
Speaker 6: so the you know, the ads quickly got like a
Speaker 6: nudity waiver like.
Speaker 5: Sent over so he could sign it.
Speaker 6: And then after he kills me, I think they cut
Speaker 6: it from the episode. But when he kills me, my
Speaker 6: eyes are closed because I'm there dead with my my
Speaker 6: neck broken, and he jerks off on my dead body
Speaker 6: and he spit on me.
Speaker 5: But I didn't know he had spit.
Speaker 6: I'm just hearing the sort of activity going on, and
Speaker 6: so I got up, and you know, and you know
Speaker 6: how you're just kind of like checking your person when
Speaker 6: you get up from laying on the floor. And my
Speaker 6: hand touched my leg and it was wet, and so
Speaker 6: I didn't think it was spit. And I looked at
Speaker 6: him and I was like, oh, did you And he instantly,
Speaker 6: like the whole crew like burst out laughing at me
Speaker 6: over that because I was convinced for a second that.
Speaker 5: He went all the way.
Speaker 1: I don't think we are going to got that because
Speaker 1: really hard going to love that story.
Speaker 2: Okay, good, but also for but he'd have been nude
Speaker 2: on that show so much?
Speaker 3: Do you have to sign a clause every episode that
Speaker 3: you're nude?
Speaker 5: I guess so.
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm not Chris Maloney. Nobody asks me to
Speaker 6: take my clothes.
Speaker 2: Hi, welcome to our post mortem. I do I have
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with Andy Powers.
Speaker 1: I will say that I know you. Did you ever
Speaker 1: ask did you ask him the question about the boy band?
Speaker 3: Or did you not? I don't know.
Speaker 1: We when we were coming up with questions for him,
Speaker 1: you were like, I want to ask if he's ever been
Speaker 1: approached to being a boy band. No.
Speaker 3: I probably got embarrassed, but he was great.
Speaker 2: And the tidbit with thinking Maloney came all over him
Speaker 2: is a gift that will never leave us.
Speaker 1: The blogs need to pick that up. With Maloney's butt
Speaker 1: doing what it's doing in the press, I think we
Speaker 1: need to hear about that. I guess from this episode,
Speaker 1: I learned that there are psychotic people working in all
Speaker 1: kinds of professions. I mean, and like stripping off killing
Speaker 1: people so that you can save them and feel good
Speaker 1: about yourself is truly, that's another level it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I learned that if a nurse makes
Speaker 2: little jokes about the patients dying, she should get a review.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's red flag city. Yeah. I don't think
Speaker 3: it should just be let go. So I think I
Speaker 3: learned that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And if you're like dating a woman who is you
Speaker 1: work with, and she gets turned on by you doing
Speaker 1: chest compressions on people, or tries to do chest compressions
Speaker 1: in a sexual way for you, I know she sounds
Speaker 1: like freaky and fun, but I think you need to
Speaker 1: move on.
Speaker 2: I would say, like, don't bring a friend to a
Speaker 2: party that's gonna burn your grandmother's crotch.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't really feel like the show gave
Speaker 1: that enough weight. He's like, I just freaked out and
Speaker 1: then I burned. It's like on her chest. Maybe I
Speaker 1: could almost get that, but then you I just I can't.
Speaker 1: It's whatever.
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: Also, if you go into a garbage can maybe wear
Speaker 2: some booty, I would say that, and.
Speaker 3: Be kind to old people, for fuck's sake.
Speaker 1: Stop trying to get your grandma to write you checks
Speaker 1: and shit when she doesn't know where she is.
Speaker 2: No, my friend, Ken, you still have a funny joke
Speaker 2: where it's like some old lady was like, you pray
Speaker 2: on the elderly, and he went, ma'am, everyone prays on
Speaker 2: the elderly. And I always laugh about that. But yeah,
Speaker 2: people are so not nice to old people. It's really
Speaker 2: fucked up. And the whole living assist like that whole
Speaker 2: like nursing homes and is that I don't know what
Speaker 2: to say, what is it?
Speaker 1: I mean, well, there's a different I mean there is
Speaker 1: nursing homes and then there's like assisted living. Like assisted
Speaker 1: living is you're a little bit more independent and like
Speaker 1: you can kind of go on and like do your day.
Speaker 1: You have like your own apartment and stuff. This is
Speaker 1: probably more of a nursing home actually, now that I
Speaker 1: say it so.
Speaker 2: For me, it's just so twisted that it's like a
Speaker 2: money making thing and people are cutting corners of like
Speaker 2: the end of someone's life, trying to fuck them over,
Speaker 2: and it's just really sad.
Speaker 3: I don't like it at all.
Speaker 1: Definitely, and I feel like this one is a little
Speaker 1: bit I haven't actually seen it, but have you seen
Speaker 1: that movie? I care a lot.
Speaker 2: No, but I watched Tricksie and Katia watch it on
Speaker 2: their Netflix show and talk about it.
Speaker 1: I want to watch it. But I think that this
Speaker 1: also has to do with like elder abuse and just
Speaker 1: kind of timely this episode, like talking about this episode
Speaker 1: because that movie's been getting like award nominations and stuff.
Speaker 4: I hated it. I hated it so much. I'm so
Speaker 4: curious after you watch it.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna watch. I'm gonna watch. Just watch Tricksie and
Speaker 3: Katya watch it. I think it's enough.
Speaker 2: They show you the endding, they show you all the
Speaker 2: good stuff. They show you some Diane Weese highlights.
Speaker 1: We also learned that Bess's son, the actor Jay Thomas,
Speaker 1: has passed away, and we were talking harshly about his
Speaker 1: character in the show, but a very great actor and
Speaker 1: we hope he's resting in peace.
Speaker 2: And also the woman who plays Bitsy Bitsy or It's
Speaker 2: the main ways Bess, she was like in Freda's Stare movies.
Speaker 2: She is so she was very acomplished so many credits
Speaker 2: and was like a dancer in the heyday of that
Speaker 2: kind of movie.
Speaker 1: Still alive, I believe yes.
Speaker 2: Okay, So Annalise edit it so I didn't talk about
Speaker 2: her in the past tense.
Speaker 3: She is killing it. Don't be too.
Speaker 2: Nice, Yeah, too polite, too fake, too friendly. Something's up
Speaker 2: under there, you know what I mean? Does that don't
Speaker 2: make sense?
Speaker 3: No, what a part are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Like Mary Kay place was very much like, Oh, I'm
Speaker 2: just here to take care of everyone.
Speaker 3: That's shit, that's not I don't trust politeness. I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't need that in my life.
Speaker 2: If you're putting on some kind of nice act, you
Speaker 2: got a lot to hide and I see right through it.
Speaker 1: I hope you helped Jared pick out a home for
Speaker 1: me one day, because sounds like you're not going to
Speaker 1: take any shit.
Speaker 2: No, I'm I no, hopefully not. I mean my parents
Speaker 2: constantly like, please don't put us in a home.
Speaker 1: My mom's been saying, please don't put me in a
Speaker 1: home my entire life.
Speaker 5: To me.
Speaker 1: We used to volunteer at a nursing home together and
Speaker 1: she'd be like, please don't put me in here.
Speaker 5: Please.
Speaker 1: It was like one of the nicest ones too. It
Speaker 1: was like a nice one in my town. No, it's
Speaker 1: fucked well. It was a great episode and we learned
Speaker 1: a lot. Now let's move into our what would Sister
Speaker 1: Peg Do? Segment? This is our weekly segment where we
Speaker 1: point you towards some resources, books, articles, people that can
Speaker 1: help give you a little bit more information about some
Speaker 1: of the topics that we've touched on today. So the
Speaker 1: character in Vulnerable Best, I don't believe she actually is
Speaker 1: diagnosed with Alzheimer's, but we are going to direct you
Speaker 1: to the Alzheimer's Association to an info sheet they have
Speaker 1: about abuse, types of elder abuse, signs of it, how
Speaker 1: to report it. The website is www dot alz dot org,
Speaker 1: where you can obviously donate and learn more about Alzheimer's,
Speaker 1: but the specific link to this info sheet will be
Speaker 1: in our show notes.
Speaker 2: And my little cousin in California created a charity called
Speaker 2: Care for the Givers Project and it helps support caregivers
Speaker 2: of loved ones that have Alzheimer's and dementia. So it's
Speaker 2: about like self care and caring for the people that care.
Speaker 2: Because his grandpa died this past year.
Speaker 1: That's really cool that he started his own organization. We'll
Speaker 1: put both of those in our show notes, so you'll
Speaker 1: have all that info there.
Speaker 3: I think you'll be excited about this. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't even plan on this, but here I am
Speaker 1: just being a great a relative, the best cousin of
Speaker 1: all time. All right, and next week's episode is going
Speaker 1: to be Identity. You've called and we are responding. It
Speaker 1: is season six, episode twelve, Identity. You can obviously get that,
Speaker 1: as we always tell you on Peacock on Hulu, buy
Speaker 1: the DVDs and yeah, email us, message us, keep talking
Speaker 1: to us.
Speaker 2: I did get a message from someone saying I love
Speaker 2: the way you say peacock, and I'm like, I gotta go.
Speaker 1: That's like I called you out this weekend for how
Speaker 1: you say vodka. You say vodka, but you are Russian,
Speaker 1: so I think you probably are right. That's all for
Speaker 1: us today, guys. We'll see you next week. Bye bye.
Speaker 3: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer Hannah Kyle Kragon.
Speaker 1: And to our sound engineer and personal hero Analie Snilson,
Speaker 1: and to.
Speaker 3: Henry Koperski for our theme song, to.
Speaker 1: Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at
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