WEBVTT - Pluribus | Episode 7: "The Gap" 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:00.760 Worrying. 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:06.000 Today's episode contained spoilers for Pluribus episode. 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:25.600 Seven, The Gap. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.440 Anna Merday Night, and welcome back to x re vision 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:30.920 of the podcast where we got Deep. It's your favorite shows, movies, 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:32.839 comics or pop culture company from my heart, where we'll 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.960 bring you three episodes a weekless news plus news. 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:41.199 In today's episode, we are talking Hollorabus episode seven. You 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:43.720 guys have been loving the show, so if we will 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:47.159 be tapping in super producer Ian to join us. And 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.680 before we jump in, just a quick production note. This 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.720 holiday season, we've been sharing a couple of short stocking 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.080 stuff for episodes with you. With so many great shows, movies, 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.280 books coming out this next few months, these episodes will 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.800 help us cover some extra content we wouldn't be able 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.160 to get on on normal episodes, So keep an eye 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:07.480 for those as they come out throughout the month. 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:14.760 But first Pluribus episode seven, All right, Episode seven, then Gap, 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.720 a little bit of a slower episode that really brings 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:26.479 you every character heavy, emotionally heavy, emotional landscape type episode. 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:30.319 Carol drives back from Las Vegas after her meeting with Diabate. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:36.399 She is in a very weird mood, I think, owing 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:39.759 to her conversation with Diabaday and realizing she's been shut 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:44.000 out of conversations between the other survivors, and. 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:44.679 The fact that. 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.760 She's clearly in this episode grappling with the fact that 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:57.600 something about the way she is, you know, made up. 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:04.000 Her personality makes peace people, even hiveminded people who only 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.520 want to please, not want to be around her, and 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.519 she's dealing with that now. So she stops to get gas. 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:12.840 She calls to get the gas pump turned on. She 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.519 calls to order a very specific gatorade order with a 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:20.080 very specific flavor and a very specific temperature ask, and 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.560 then when it arrives it's not to her liking, which 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:26.960 she complains about. She picks up some fireworks, goes home 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.040 in order to set off. When she gets home and 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.520 makes a bevy of stops along the way, including to 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:36.320 pick up a new car. 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:37.679 When her cop car breaks. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.880 Down, she gets a beautiful which I look up. I 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.079 looked up the prices on Rolls royceys roy says, guys, 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.400 would you like to guess a brand new Rolls Royce 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.919 Phantom twenty twenty five Rolls Royce Phantom, which is their 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:59.280 flagship car. Would you like to guess with the MSRP 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.880 on that? I think it's one hundred thousand dollars. I 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.920 was going to say, two fifty you gotta go way up. 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.200 Three three fifty, gotta go up, gotta go up. 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:11.640 That's used. 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:15.200 You could get into a used three for about half 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:15.680 a million. 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.800 It's in the seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars rate 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:21.200 for the Phantom. 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.799 She's choosen the writ car basically the same time. 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.160 I know right well, I think again, I think this 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.640 is clearly speaking to her. It's like she's seen what 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:33.960 Diabat is doing and she's going, can I do that? 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:34.920 What's my version of that? 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:35.480 Like? 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.680 Can I get into it? Let me order this gatorade? 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:41.160 In In tremendously specific fashion, she goes to a Georgia 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:45.800 O'Keeffe museum and takes a specific painting that she has 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:47.680 a print off of her. 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.800 House of shit. That's the kind of shit, you know. 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:54.880 She stops at a spa and then when she gets home, 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:57.680 she puts the new Georgia O'Keefe on the wall and 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.200 calls the hive mind saying, I'm getting dressed up for dinner. 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.920 I want this very specific dinner. From these very specific 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.920 meals that Helen and I had get it going for tonight. 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:12.400 She gets the piano music going, she's eating some delicious food. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:17.440 Every meal that comes out has some specific meaning and 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:23.400 intention from her relationship with Helen. But it becomes very clear, 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:27.400 very quickly that really what she's staving off is the loneliness. 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:31.680 And I think what's really playing on her hair is 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.599 how Diabarte was essentially last episode, like had a panic 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.160 attack when she said she was going to stay like 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:42.360 he was thinking. I think that's I think that's something 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.800 that's made her realign what she's thinking. Anyway, while Carol 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:52.880 is rethinking her eagerness to fight the Hive Mind, Paraguay 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:57.440 guy Minusos is out of gas and a truck comes 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.280 to offer him a lift and some water, but he 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.160 finds a ver calls siphons out the fuel. He leaves 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.200 some cash under the wiper. He does not believe in 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.280 taking from the Hive Mind, as we will find out. 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:09.640 He gets his car running and we see he's practicing 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.960 in English. Ultimately, probably for this meet up with Carol, 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.800 whether or not it will go the way he wants, 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:20.920 is likely gonna be our big finale conflict. On the way, 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.919 we see he is living off the grid. He's catching 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.559 his own fish, he's collecting his own water. And also 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.760 this was something that Ian Clock the moment that this 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:33.240 episode was announced with the title he goes off road 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.200 through the Darien Gap. That is the title obviously is 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.240 half about that and half about Carol and her kind 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:41.719 of gap between her and any other human friendship or being. 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.760 And when this guy gets to a point where he 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.440 has to walk the gap, he will do it. And 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:49.440 the hive mind comes out, and hive Mind's like, don't 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:51.920 do it. It's like people are emerging out of the jungle. 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.280 They're like, you're gonna die. The weather's gonna be punishing. 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:56.880 The most dangerous place on the planet. 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:01.400 Likely, you're gonna be getting snaked, you're gonna getting kyote, 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.840 you're gonna be getting bitten by bugs that can kill you. 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:08.359 Don't go. You can just go to New Mexico on 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.160 a boat or a plane or just like, we'll give 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.760 you a car. And he's like, please, I'm gonna set 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.240 my car on fire and go fuck yourself. Nothing on 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.080 this planet is yours, he says. He calls them thieves 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.039 and says they do not belong there, and he heads off, 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.360 practicing as English by saying he wishes to save the world. 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.520 I really am feeling vim at this point because I 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:34.320 feel like Carol's plan is diverging from what she promised. 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:39.960 I feel like Carol is really about to regret what 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:45.200 she's been asking and pleading for, which is won't someone 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.400 be dedicated like me to saving the Earth? Well, I 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.920 think we're gonna find out that Manusosa is really about it, 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.159 and probably about it in ways that are not good. 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.880 Yes, I was gonna say, Jason tell us what we 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.159 see him do, because that gives us like a real 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.080 insight into just how hard call this guy is compared 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:06.000 to Carol. 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.320 I mean, it's just the fact that he's he's unwilling 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.880 to take anything from them. And then his speech where 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.760 he says, you know you've stolen this planet essentially your thieves, 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.240 you don't belong here. I think it's a it's an 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:22.400 interesting question, right what you because clearly Carol's right like 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.120 I don't. I don't think anybody's arguing that Carol is 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.960 incorrect in her analysis of what has happened. This alien 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.680 species has come in and hijacked the planet against the planets. 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:39.160 Will that said, what if in order to get things 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:41.440 back the way they were, you have to be the 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:42.760 most brutal and ruthless. 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.840 Mm, what if you do the worst things? 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.720 And I think that's what Manusos is confronting us with 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:56.360 that question. So Manusos is moving through the gap and 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.880 it's just as hard as the Hive Mind told him, 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.200 and you know, day night and day and night, and 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:06.600 he's trekking through this unforgiving type of landscape. And then 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.080 eventually one of the things that the Hive mind warned 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.080 him about about, this very particular spiny tree with these 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:17.520 big spikes on it covered in bacteria. Well minusso slips 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.760 and impales his back on it, and now he's in 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:22.960 serious trouble. 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.320 That night, he like. 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.720 As if he's in Commando by yeah, the Arnold Schwarzenegger 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:35.600 movie Commando or some other type rails, Yeah, some bear 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.839 grills like Sealed Team six fantasy. He heats up his 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:43.880 machete in order to I guess, burn off the infection 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.080 from the wounds on his back. That doesn't work, and 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:49.800 soon enough he is in terrible shape. His skin looks 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:54.000 like fucking mashed potatoes. He collapses, but the Hive Mind 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.600 has been tracking him the whole time, and a her 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.600 helicopter descends to rescue him. 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:03.280 Also, isn't it kind of funny? Like I did really 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.000 love how this episode ends, And this is what's so 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:08.800 great about this show, because I still don't know what 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:10.720 Vince wants us to take from it, but I love 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.760 how this episode essentially ends with both of them needing 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.920 help from the Hive Mind still, even though they're both 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.640 so furious and sure, and you know, he's going through 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:22.600 the Darien Gap and he's gonna do it himself. I 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.240 can't do it myself. He doesn't need a drone of 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.280 ice cold red Gatorade. He's gonna drink the water from 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.160 the But eventually, you know, he gets so sick that 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.240 if he wasn't saved by the Hive Mind, he would die. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:39.400 And as we see, Carol is not doing much better 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.319 in Albuquerque. She is practicing her golf swing off the 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:47.079 roof of a building. She's really living that third Yeah, wasteful, 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:52.040 kind of like thirty Digital Night. Nobody's there. She's setting 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:56.960 off fireworks, she's drinking. She's spiraling one of the fireworks 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.839 in a classic you know what in in England we 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.240 learn is a classic firework fail. You've got to be 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:07.080 fireworks safe, guys, because we have fireworks Night every year 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:09.840 in England November fifth to celebrate guy fawks trying to 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.120 blow up Parliament because that's kind of country we are. 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:14.320 And guess what, we have many PSAs about how you 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.000 should not do this exact thing. So she's drinking, she's 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.480 doing fireworks. One of the fireworks explodes right next to her, 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.160 and she is ready just to let it kill her. 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.440 Doesn't even flinch. To me, I was like, Yep, she's 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:29.640 accepted it. This is it. 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:30.960 Yeah, that was rock bottom. 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:35.440 Yeah. Instead, doesn't kill Carol because we have to see 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.719 her in Manuso's face off next week. So instead it 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:40.760 sets her house on fire. She puts it out with 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.680 a hose. Next day she goes to get supplies to 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.480 fix the house and we see that what she's really 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:51.760 doing is painting a massive message on the street. She 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:56.520 goes inside the house. We pull back as Zosha arrives 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:59.200 out of a car and we see that she had 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:03.240 written on the page in large white letters. Come back 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.560 and we see Zosha get out the car. She hugs her, 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.920 she starts to cry and she's just so happy to 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.920 have that human connection. And also in that moment, I 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.160 was like, when she wrote come back, I'm like, is 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:17.760 she talking about Helen? Is she talking about Zosha? Like 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:22.800 such an interesting moment there. And we end in this 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.920 place where despite whatever these two people have said, they're 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.760 so independent they want to exist without the high of mind. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.200 They're going to fight them. Both of them end in 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.600 a place where they're getting helped by the hive mind. 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.000 And I just thought that was really interesting. Let's go 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:40.520 to an ad break and when we're back, we'll come 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.560 back when Supervid is Ian who you have heard chiming 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:44.960 in that his thought. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:01.160 And we're back, We're back, really almost like a tone 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:07.720 poem type episode. Let's let's start with both Carol and 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:13.920 Manusos's seemingly like mirroring dedication to like doing it on 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.240 their own. Both of them end up not doing it 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:22.080 all the way on their own. Carol surrenders Minusos was 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:27.000 surely willing to die on that particular patch of the 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:29.360 Darien Gap to prove that he was willing to do 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.720 it alone, but I mind would not let him. Let's 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:34.079 talk about that, because I found that really fascinating. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:34.360 Ian. 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:39.280 What did you think about Menusus's just dedication to this 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.920 idea that he doesn't want to take part in anything 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:43.480 that the Hive Mind have to offer him. 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.560 So as I was watching the episode, initially, I was like, man, like, 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:48.480 is this guy low key kind of like a glutton 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.080 for punishment. He's taking the hardest path at every turn, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:57.200 refusing even the most basic assistance, doing everything himself. And 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.280 then I think throughout the episode there are little hints 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.560 that he might also have some kind of religious background too, 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:04.320 So then I was like, it's this like sort of 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.240 like a penance atonement thing. Did he do something like 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:09.360 fucked up in his past that he feels like he 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.080 needs to atone for, you know? So that's where it 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.120 kind of made me think initially. But then right before 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:16.920 he enters the gap, when you know, all the people 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.760 come out of their jungle and they're pleading with him 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.560 not to do it by himself, and the thing that 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:22.960 he says that really just like kind of made it 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:24.920 all click in a place which we've already alluded to, was, 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.040 you know, he says that everything they have to offer 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.160 is stolen and it's not theirs to give. They don't 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.920 belong on this planet. And I mean, yeah, he makes 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.559 a brilliant point. It made me think of like squatters' 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.680 rights almost. It's like you leave your house and go 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.680 to work, somebody breaks in and changes the locks. They're like, oh, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.600 this is my house now. You know, you can come 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:45.320 in if you want, but this is my house now. 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.640 And it's like, that's essentially what they did to the 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.080 entire planet. And he's not about it. And so I 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:56.640 think his really strong defiance and that steadfast belief that 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.079 you know, like you do not belong here, none of 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:00.559 this is yours is going to set up a really 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.240 interesting conflict when he finally does meet up with Carol, 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.040 because I think she's starting to go the other direction. 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.840 Or at least she's, yeah, been been beaten down by 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:14.080 the loneliness and for inability to deal with herself by 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.720 herself exactly. You know what made me think of it 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:22.360 made me think of Menusus's kind of extremism is again 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.440 it's like you agree with it on a certain level, 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.400 but it made me think of, here's the thing that 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.040 annoys me when I the it's and it's a thing 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:35.000 I agree with the whenever I see in particularly a 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:39.680 white leftist with like a no one is illegal on 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.080 stolen land t shirt. First of all, agree with that. 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:47.400 I completely agree with sentiment. I love this sentence where 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:52.760 it comes from. But it's also like, you can't who 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.120 stole one, who stole land? And two you can't connect 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.440 the truth of that with anythingtionable. 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:01.680 Like to me, it's a. 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:08.360 Platitude because in order to fix that, like you would 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:14.880 need to undertake such an enormous amount of effort behind 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:20.360 violent strategies, nonviolent strategies, you know, like to in order 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.720 to eject the people who stole the land from the 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.680 land and enact this kind of like free flowing return 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:32.400 to its original owners, it would under you would need 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.440 to be so crazy and violent. 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.920 And I'm not saying I disagree with the sentiment. 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.440 I just think that you think about to have it 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.920 on a T shirt is basically like a platitude what 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.440 can you do for me now? And that is how 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.840 I feel about Manuso's It's kind of like, listen, you 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:55.080 don't the enormity of what's facing you is seven billion 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.640 people in this hive mind you control nothing like you. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.080 I don't disagree that this is a terrible set of circumstances, 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.760 but like, take a fucking bottle of water, Jesus Christ, 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.119 like you don't, like, give me a fucking break. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.960 You can use You can save the world better if 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.440 you are nourished and if you're drinking food. Yeah, and 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.360 I wanted to pick up on a three well Ian 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.760 and Jason, I think you both made some really great points. Jason, 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.280 I was also thinking about that that kind of thing 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:27.960 with how it's also like, you know, the notion of 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:33.800 kind of like if he is religious and he believes 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:38.160 that God created the world, that could also be why 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:42.000 he is so devout about this idea that they are 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.080 stealing right like, And I also thought part of the 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.120 reason why he might be really good or insistent on 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.160 being isolated is if he was like a priest or 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.760 a vicar in some kind of you know, seminary or 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.280 wherever those people go and they be quiet for a 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.160 long time and they don't eat. So I definitely think 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.640 that word. I also love that you brought that up, Jason, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.240 because it is giving, like you know, when people do 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:11.480 like land acknowledgments. Again not against the stamp staateat the idea. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.640 but so many of my friends who are actually indigenous. 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.280 Are like, that's like having like a party at your 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:19.840 at somebody else like your house, and you're like, yeah, 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.040 this used to be your house. I just want to 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.640 acknowledge that. But now it's my house, you know. It's 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.120 like you still like, could you just give me the house? 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:28.280 Something about it? 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.800 And and to that end, Rosie, I think there's something 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:36.920 too about Manuso's that the way he keeps repeating I'm 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.080 ready to save the world, like I'm ready to save 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:39.600 the world. 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:40.439 It's like this. 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.399 You can you can sense that there's a feeling that 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.360 he has that he's been chosen for this. 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:49.359 Yes, he has like a duty to do it. 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:51.440 Right, he has a duty to do it. 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:53.639 Carol kind of had a little bit of that, although 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.400 she was and I think even she would say she's 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.639 forced into this, but now we have to do something 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:00.400 about it now, whereas. 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.960 You feel as though Minusos. 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.720 Thinks he's been called to this some absolutely, I don't 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.919 know that makes me. I am he feels like a 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:12.879 very dangerous person. 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:17.840 I was gonna say Manuso's secret like antagonists for the 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.240 finale because he's going to try and nuke the world 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.639 because she told him they'd give him a nuke or whatever, 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.760 and well, he has going to have to try and 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:27.000 save Zosha. 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.600 He's got the frequency, right, So I think, yeah, from 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.120 his point of view, let's turn off. 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.320 How do we jam this? How do we turn this off? 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:39.320 And I think what we've seen is hate. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.520 Turning it off could potentially lead to I don't know, 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.160 like seven billion people dying or millions of people dying 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.280 at least, so let's pause on that. But I think 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.600 he's going to really want to do it something. 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.720 I think this really interesting that you're making me realize 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:56.600 as we talk about this, and this is kind of 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.480 something I used to think it's going to sound out 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:00.960 there at first, but it reminds me of this do 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.040 you guys? You know Beauty and the Beast, right, the 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.919 classic question. I used to watch that movie and I 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:07.960 loved the movie, but at the end I would always 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.080 kind of feel a little bit sad for Gaston, not 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.440 because he died because he sucks, but because in any 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.520 other Disney movie, he would be like the hero, right, Yeah, 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:19.439 he would be the guy who's going to kill the 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.480 monster and save the princess. This is kind of giving 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.000 that vibe where like Minusos is the guy that most 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:30.960 action TV shows or movies would follow in this story 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.400 trying to save but instead Vince said, well, what if 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.960 we shift to this person who actually is not a 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.080 selfless person who's not thinking about the world, who is 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:44.639 more just pissed off and furious and almost like a 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:46.840 side character that you would come across when you were 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.719 trying to survive the apocalypse and flipped it. And I 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.439 think that's really interesting because this episode we get so 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:59.159 much of Carol's pettiness. Oh my gator raide, wasn't ice cold? 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.840 Drone me? And other one like come on, Like, yeah, 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:07.399 she doesn't have main character syndrome in the way that 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:13.200 Manuso stares wear Manuso. She has the version where everything 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.040 just needs to happen to her at any point. So 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:23.600 let's talk a little bit about how much Carol is 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.280 currently living in the security of this idea that the 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.800 Hive mind cannot turn her after last episode, So Ian 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.080 you you really knowed how this episode she is just 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.359 like on a tear like Okay, well I can do 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.280 whatever I want now because you guys can't turn me. 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:38.919 So could you talk a little bit about how you 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:43.280 think that like ties into her journey emotionally throughout the season. 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:46.399 Yeah, So I think as she leaves Vegas, you know 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.480 when Diabat is like, you know, they do miss you, 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.600 They're just looking for a little bit of a change 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:52.720 in attitude, and she's like, fuck them, you know, let 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.000 them starve, pick a fucking apple, do whatever you gotta do. 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.520 I'm out of here. She really carries that over. 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.720 Into this episode, and then it just kind of escalates 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.120 as as the episode continues. You know, she's being openly 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.680 antagonistic and petty with the gatorade. It's not cold enough, 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:08.199 like what are you guys doing? And then when she 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.760 gets back to Albertquerque, she starts drinking again heavily. She's 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.919 lighting off fireworks, stealing art for museums, destroying property, she 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.560 steals the rolls Royce, and I think she kind of 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:22.119 slips into this like apathetic nihilism where she's like, you 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.080 know what, they can't turn me, none of this matters. 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.119 I'm gonna do whatever I want. And she kind of 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.680 takes a page out of Diabate's book and starts living 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:32.840 it up like he does, but in a darker way. 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:37.160 I want to say, yeah, she does have a darker energy. 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:39.080 To it, yeah, because I mean clearly she's depressed and 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:41.919 hurt by the fact that no one wants to be 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.959 around her, the survivors or the Hive Mind, and so 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:46.840 I think that kind of hardens her in a way 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:48.960 where she's just like, fuck it, then I'll just be 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.000 by myself in Albuquerque and do my thing. But we 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:56.520 see throughout that process though clearly she is lonely and hurt. 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.520 You know, when she goes to the dinner by herself 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:00.840 and has them make all these meal from her memories 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.439 and then she's sitting there reflecting she puts on the music. 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:05.800 There's a sadness to that scene that I think is 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.880 really striking, and I think that's when she starts to realize, 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.879