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Speaker 1: Worrying.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode contained spoilers for Pluribus episode.

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Speaker 1: Seven, The Gap. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion.

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Speaker 2: Anna Merday Night, and welcome back to x re vision

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Speaker 2: of the podcast where we got Deep. It's your favorite shows, movies,

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Speaker 2: comics or pop culture company from my heart, where we'll

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Speaker 2: bring you three episodes a weekless news plus news.

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Speaker 3: In today's episode, we are talking Hollorabus episode seven. You

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Speaker 3: guys have been loving the show, so if we will

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Speaker 3: be tapping in super producer Ian to join us. And

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Speaker 3: before we jump in, just a quick production note. This

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Speaker 3: holiday season, we've been sharing a couple of short stocking

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Speaker 3: stuff for episodes with you. With so many great shows, movies,

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Speaker 3: books coming out this next few months, these episodes will

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Speaker 3: help us cover some extra content we wouldn't be able

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Speaker 3: to get on on normal episodes, So keep an eye

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Speaker 3: for those as they come out throughout the month.

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Speaker 2: But first Pluribus episode seven, All right, Episode seven, then Gap,

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a slower episode that really brings

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Speaker 2: you every character heavy, emotionally heavy, emotional landscape type episode.

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Speaker 2: Carol drives back from Las Vegas after her meeting with Diabate.

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Speaker 2: She is in a very weird mood, I think, owing

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Speaker 2: to her conversation with Diabaday and realizing she's been shut

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Speaker 2: out of conversations between the other survivors, and.

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Speaker 1: The fact that.

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Speaker 2: She's clearly in this episode grappling with the fact that

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Speaker 2: something about the way she is, you know, made up.

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Speaker 2: Her personality makes peace people, even hiveminded people who only

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Speaker 2: want to please, not want to be around her, and

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Speaker 2: she's dealing with that now. So she stops to get gas.

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Speaker 2: She calls to get the gas pump turned on. She

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Speaker 2: calls to order a very specific gatorade order with a

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Speaker 2: very specific flavor and a very specific temperature ask, and

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Speaker 2: then when it arrives it's not to her liking, which

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Speaker 2: she complains about. She picks up some fireworks, goes home

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Speaker 2: in order to set off. When she gets home and

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Speaker 2: makes a bevy of stops along the way, including to

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Speaker 2: pick up a new car.

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Speaker 1: When her cop car breaks.

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Speaker 2: Down, she gets a beautiful which I look up. I

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Speaker 2: looked up the prices on Rolls royceys roy says, guys,

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Speaker 2: would you like to guess a brand new Rolls Royce

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Speaker 2: Phantom twenty twenty five Rolls Royce Phantom, which is their

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Speaker 2: flagship car. Would you like to guess with the MSRP

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Speaker 2: on that? I think it's one hundred thousand dollars. I

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Speaker 2: was going to say, two fifty you gotta go way up.

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Speaker 2: Three three fifty, gotta go up, gotta go up.

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Speaker 4: That's used.

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Speaker 1: You could get into a used three for about half

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Speaker 1: a million.

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Speaker 2: It's in the seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars rate

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Speaker 2: for the Phantom.

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Speaker 3: She's choosen the writ car basically the same time.

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Speaker 2: I know right well, I think again, I think this

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Speaker 2: is clearly speaking to her. It's like she's seen what

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Speaker 2: Diabat is doing and she's going, can I do that?

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Speaker 1: What's my version of that?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 2: Can I get into it? Let me order this gatorade?

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Speaker 2: In In tremendously specific fashion, she goes to a Georgia

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Speaker 2: O'Keeffe museum and takes a specific painting that she has

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Speaker 2: a print off of her.

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Speaker 3: House of shit. That's the kind of shit, you know.

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Speaker 2: She stops at a spa and then when she gets home,

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Speaker 2: she puts the new Georgia O'Keefe on the wall and

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Speaker 2: calls the hive mind saying, I'm getting dressed up for dinner.

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Speaker 2: I want this very specific dinner. From these very specific

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Speaker 2: meals that Helen and I had get it going for tonight.

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Speaker 3: She gets the piano music going, she's eating some delicious food.

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Speaker 3: Every meal that comes out has some specific meaning and

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Speaker 3: intention from her relationship with Helen. But it becomes very clear,

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Speaker 3: very quickly that really what she's staving off is the loneliness.

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Speaker 3: And I think what's really playing on her hair is

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Speaker 3: how Diabarte was essentially last episode, like had a panic

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Speaker 3: attack when she said she was going to stay like

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Speaker 3: he was thinking. I think that's I think that's something

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Speaker 3: that's made her realign what she's thinking. Anyway, while Carol

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Speaker 3: is rethinking her eagerness to fight the Hive Mind, Paraguay

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Speaker 3: guy Minusos is out of gas and a truck comes

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Speaker 3: to offer him a lift and some water, but he

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Speaker 3: finds a ver calls siphons out the fuel. He leaves

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Speaker 3: some cash under the wiper. He does not believe in

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Speaker 3: taking from the Hive Mind, as we will find out.

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Speaker 3: He gets his car running and we see he's practicing

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Speaker 3: in English. Ultimately, probably for this meet up with Carol,

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Speaker 3: whether or not it will go the way he wants,

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Speaker 3: is likely gonna be our big finale conflict. On the way,

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Speaker 3: we see he is living off the grid. He's catching

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Speaker 3: his own fish, he's collecting his own water. And also

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Speaker 3: this was something that Ian Clock the moment that this

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Speaker 3: episode was announced with the title he goes off road

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Speaker 3: through the Darien Gap. That is the title obviously is

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Speaker 3: half about that and half about Carol and her kind

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Speaker 3: of gap between her and any other human friendship or being.

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Speaker 3: And when this guy gets to a point where he

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Speaker 3: has to walk the gap, he will do it. And

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Speaker 3: the hive mind comes out, and hive Mind's like, don't

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Speaker 3: do it. It's like people are emerging out of the jungle.

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Speaker 3: They're like, you're gonna die. The weather's gonna be punishing.

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Speaker 4: The most dangerous place on the planet.

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Speaker 3: Likely, you're gonna be getting snaked, you're gonna getting kyote,

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Speaker 3: you're gonna be getting bitten by bugs that can kill you.

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Speaker 3: Don't go. You can just go to New Mexico on

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Speaker 3: a boat or a plane or just like, we'll give

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Speaker 3: you a car. And he's like, please, I'm gonna set

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Speaker 3: my car on fire and go fuck yourself. Nothing on

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Speaker 3: this planet is yours, he says. He calls them thieves

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Speaker 3: and says they do not belong there, and he heads off,

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Speaker 3: practicing as English by saying he wishes to save the world.

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Speaker 3: I really am feeling vim at this point because I

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Speaker 3: feel like Carol's plan is diverging from what she promised.

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Speaker 2: I feel like Carol is really about to regret what

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Speaker 2: she's been asking and pleading for, which is won't someone

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Speaker 2: be dedicated like me to saving the Earth? Well, I

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Speaker 2: think we're gonna find out that Manusosa is really about it,

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Speaker 2: and probably about it in ways that are not good.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was gonna say, Jason tell us what we

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Speaker 3: see him do, because that gives us like a real

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Speaker 3: insight into just how hard call this guy is compared

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Speaker 3: to Carol.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just the fact that he's he's unwilling

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Speaker 2: to take anything from them. And then his speech where

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Speaker 2: he says, you know you've stolen this planet essentially your thieves,

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Speaker 2: you don't belong here. I think it's a it's an

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Speaker 2: interesting question, right what you because clearly Carol's right like

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Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think anybody's arguing that Carol is

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Speaker 2: incorrect in her analysis of what has happened. This alien

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Speaker 2: species has come in and hijacked the planet against the planets.

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Speaker 2: Will that said, what if in order to get things

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Speaker 2: back the way they were, you have to be the

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Speaker 2: most brutal and ruthless.

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Speaker 1: Mm, what if you do the worst things?

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Speaker 2: And I think that's what Manusos is confronting us with

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Speaker 2: that question. So Manusos is moving through the gap and

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Speaker 2: it's just as hard as the Hive Mind told him,

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Speaker 2: and you know, day night and day and night, and

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Speaker 2: he's trekking through this unforgiving type of landscape. And then

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Speaker 2: eventually one of the things that the Hive mind warned

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Speaker 2: him about about, this very particular spiny tree with these

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Speaker 2: big spikes on it covered in bacteria. Well minusso slips

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Speaker 2: and impales his back on it, and now he's in

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Speaker 2: serious trouble.

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Speaker 3: That night, he like.

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Speaker 2: As if he's in Commando by yeah, the Arnold Schwarzenegger

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Speaker 2: movie Commando or some other type rails, Yeah, some bear

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Speaker 2: grills like Sealed Team six fantasy. He heats up his

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Speaker 2: machete in order to I guess, burn off the infection

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Speaker 2: from the wounds on his back. That doesn't work, and

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Speaker 2: soon enough he is in terrible shape. His skin looks

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Speaker 2: like fucking mashed potatoes. He collapses, but the Hive Mind

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Speaker 2: has been tracking him the whole time, and a her

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Speaker 2: helicopter descends to rescue him.

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Speaker 3: Also, isn't it kind of funny? Like I did really

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Speaker 3: love how this episode ends, And this is what's so

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Speaker 3: great about this show, because I still don't know what

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Speaker 3: Vince wants us to take from it, but I love

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Speaker 3: how this episode essentially ends with both of them needing

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Speaker 3: help from the Hive Mind still, even though they're both

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Speaker 3: so furious and sure, and you know, he's going through

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Speaker 3: the Darien Gap and he's gonna do it himself. I

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Speaker 3: can't do it myself. He doesn't need a drone of

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Speaker 3: ice cold red Gatorade. He's gonna drink the water from

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Speaker 3: the But eventually, you know, he gets so sick that

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Speaker 3: if he wasn't saved by the Hive Mind, he would die.

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Speaker 3: And as we see, Carol is not doing much better

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Speaker 3: in Albuquerque. She is practicing her golf swing off the

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Speaker 3: roof of a building. She's really living that third Yeah, wasteful,

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Speaker 3: kind of like thirty Digital Night. Nobody's there. She's setting

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Speaker 3: off fireworks, she's drinking. She's spiraling one of the fireworks

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Speaker 3: in a classic you know what in in England we

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Speaker 3: learn is a classic firework fail. You've got to be

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Speaker 3: fireworks safe, guys, because we have fireworks Night every year

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Speaker 3: in England November fifth to celebrate guy fawks trying to

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Speaker 3: blow up Parliament because that's kind of country we are.

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Speaker 3: And guess what, we have many PSAs about how you

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Speaker 3: should not do this exact thing. So she's drinking, she's

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Speaker 3: doing fireworks. One of the fireworks explodes right next to her,

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Speaker 3: and she is ready just to let it kill her.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't even flinch. To me, I was like, Yep, she's

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Speaker 3: accepted it. This is it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that was rock bottom.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Instead, doesn't kill Carol because we have to see

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Speaker 3: her in Manuso's face off next week. So instead it

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Speaker 3: sets her house on fire. She puts it out with

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Speaker 3: a hose. Next day she goes to get supplies to

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Speaker 3: fix the house and we see that what she's really

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Speaker 3: doing is painting a massive message on the street. She

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Speaker 3: goes inside the house. We pull back as Zosha arrives

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Speaker 3: out of a car and we see that she had

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Speaker 3: written on the page in large white letters. Come back

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Speaker 3: and we see Zosha get out the car. She hugs her,

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Speaker 3: she starts to cry and she's just so happy to

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Speaker 3: have that human connection. And also in that moment, I

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Speaker 3: was like, when she wrote come back, I'm like, is

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Speaker 3: she talking about Helen? Is she talking about Zosha? Like

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Speaker 3: such an interesting moment there. And we end in this

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Speaker 3: place where despite whatever these two people have said, they're

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Speaker 3: so independent they want to exist without the high of mind.

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Speaker 3: They're going to fight them. Both of them end in

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Speaker 3: a place where they're getting helped by the hive mind.

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Speaker 3: And I just thought that was really interesting. Let's go

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Speaker 3: to an ad break and when we're back, we'll come

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Speaker 3: back when Supervid is Ian who you have heard chiming

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Speaker 3: in that his thought.

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Speaker 2: And we're back, We're back, really almost like a tone

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Speaker 2: poem type episode. Let's let's start with both Carol and

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Speaker 2: Manusos's seemingly like mirroring dedication to like doing it on

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Speaker 2: their own. Both of them end up not doing it

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Speaker 2: all the way on their own. Carol surrenders Minusos was

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Speaker 2: surely willing to die on that particular patch of the

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Speaker 2: Darien Gap to prove that he was willing to do

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Speaker 2: it alone, but I mind would not let him. Let's

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Speaker 2: talk about that, because I found that really fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Ian.

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Speaker 2: What did you think about Menusus's just dedication to this

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Speaker 2: idea that he doesn't want to take part in anything

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Speaker 2: that the Hive Mind have to offer him.

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Speaker 5: So as I was watching the episode, initially, I was like, man, like,

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Speaker 5: is this guy low key kind of like a glutton

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Speaker 5: for punishment. He's taking the hardest path at every turn,

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Speaker 5: refusing even the most basic assistance, doing everything himself. And

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Speaker 5: then I think throughout the episode there are little hints

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Speaker 5: that he might also have some kind of religious background too,

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Speaker 5: So then I was like, it's this like sort of

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Speaker 5: like a penance atonement thing. Did he do something like

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Speaker 5: fucked up in his past that he feels like he

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Speaker 5: needs to atone for, you know? So that's where it

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Speaker 5: kind of made me think initially. But then right before

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Speaker 5: he enters the gap, when you know, all the people

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Speaker 5: come out of their jungle and they're pleading with him

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Speaker 5: not to do it by himself, and the thing that

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Speaker 5: he says that really just like kind of made it

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Speaker 5: all click in a place which we've already alluded to, was,

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Speaker 5: you know, he says that everything they have to offer

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Speaker 5: is stolen and it's not theirs to give. They don't

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Speaker 5: belong on this planet. And I mean, yeah, he makes

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Speaker 5: a brilliant point. It made me think of like squatters'

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Speaker 5: rights almost. It's like you leave your house and go

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Speaker 5: to work, somebody breaks in and changes the locks. They're like, oh,

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Speaker 5: this is my house now. You know, you can come

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Speaker 5: in if you want, but this is my house now.

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Speaker 5: And it's like, that's essentially what they did to the

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Speaker 5: entire planet. And he's not about it. And so I

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Speaker 5: think his really strong defiance and that steadfast belief that

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Speaker 5: you know, like you do not belong here, none of

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Speaker 5: this is yours is going to set up a really

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Speaker 5: interesting conflict when he finally does meet up with Carol,

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Speaker 5: because I think she's starting to go the other direction.

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Speaker 2: Or at least she's, yeah, been been beaten down by

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Speaker 2: the loneliness and for inability to deal with herself by

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Speaker 2: herself exactly. You know what made me think of it

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Speaker 2: made me think of Menusus's kind of extremism is again

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Speaker 2: it's like you agree with it on a certain level,

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Speaker 2: but it made me think of, here's the thing that

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Speaker 2: annoys me when I the it's and it's a thing

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Speaker 2: I agree with the whenever I see in particularly a

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Speaker 2: white leftist with like a no one is illegal on

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Speaker 2: stolen land t shirt. First of all, agree with that.

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Speaker 2: I completely agree with sentiment. I love this sentence where

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Speaker 2: it comes from. But it's also like, you can't who

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Speaker 2: stole one, who stole land? And two you can't connect

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Speaker 2: the truth of that with anythingtionable.

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Speaker 1: Like to me, it's a.

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Speaker 2: Platitude because in order to fix that, like you would

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Speaker 2: need to undertake such an enormous amount of effort behind

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Speaker 2: violent strategies, nonviolent strategies, you know, like to in order

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Speaker 2: to eject the people who stole the land from the

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Speaker 2: land and enact this kind of like free flowing return

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Speaker 2: to its original owners, it would under you would need

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Speaker 2: to be so crazy and violent.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying I disagree with the sentiment.

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Speaker 2: I just think that you think about to have it

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Speaker 2: on a T shirt is basically like a platitude what

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Speaker 2: can you do for me now? And that is how

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Speaker 2: I feel about Manuso's It's kind of like, listen, you

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Speaker 2: don't the enormity of what's facing you is seven billion

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Speaker 2: people in this hive mind you control nothing like you.

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Speaker 2: I don't disagree that this is a terrible set of circumstances,

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Speaker 2: but like, take a fucking bottle of water, Jesus Christ,

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Speaker 2: like you don't, like, give me a fucking break.

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Speaker 3: You can use You can save the world better if

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Speaker 3: you are nourished and if you're drinking food. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: I wanted to pick up on a three well Ian

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Speaker 3: and Jason, I think you both made some really great points. Jason,

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Speaker 3: I was also thinking about that that kind of thing

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Speaker 3: with how it's also like, you know, the notion of

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Speaker 3: kind of like if he is religious and he believes

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Speaker 3: that God created the world, that could also be why

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Speaker 3: he is so devout about this idea that they are

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Speaker 3: stealing right like, And I also thought part of the

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Speaker 3: reason why he might be really good or insistent on

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Speaker 3: being isolated is if he was like a priest or

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Speaker 3: a vicar in some kind of you know, seminary or

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Speaker 3: wherever those people go and they be quiet for a

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Speaker 3: long time and they don't eat. So I definitely think

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Speaker 3: that word. I also love that you brought that up, Jason,

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Speaker 3: because it is giving, like you know, when people do

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Speaker 3: like land acknowledgments. Again not against the stamp staateat the idea. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but so many of my friends who are actually indigenous.

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Speaker 3: Are like, that's like having like a party at your

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Speaker 3: at somebody else like your house, and you're like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this used to be your house. I just want to

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Speaker 3: acknowledge that. But now it's my house, you know. It's

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Speaker 3: like you still like, could you just give me the house?

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Speaker 1: Something about it?

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Speaker 2: And and to that end, Rosie, I think there's something

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Speaker 2: too about Manuso's that the way he keeps repeating I'm

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Speaker 2: ready to save the world, like I'm ready to save

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 1: It's like this.

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Speaker 2: You can you can sense that there's a feeling that

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Speaker 2: he has that he's been chosen for this.

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Speaker 4: Yes, he has like a duty to do it.

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Speaker 1: Right, he has a duty to do it.

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Speaker 2: Carol kind of had a little bit of that, although

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Speaker 2: she was and I think even she would say she's

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Speaker 2: forced into this, but now we have to do something

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Speaker 2: about it now, whereas.

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Speaker 1: You feel as though Minusos.

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Speaker 2: Thinks he's been called to this some absolutely, I don't

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Speaker 2: know that makes me. I am he feels like a

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Speaker 2: very dangerous person.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say Manuso's secret like antagonists for the

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Speaker 3: finale because he's going to try and nuke the world

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Speaker 3: because she told him they'd give him a nuke or whatever,

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Speaker 3: and well, he has going to have to try and

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Speaker 3: save Zosha.

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Speaker 2: He's got the frequency, right, So I think, yeah, from

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Speaker 2: his point of view, let's turn off.

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Speaker 1: How do we jam this? How do we turn this off?

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Speaker 1: And I think what we've seen is hate.

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Speaker 2: Turning it off could potentially lead to I don't know,

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Speaker 2: like seven billion people dying or millions of people dying

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Speaker 2: at least, so let's pause on that. But I think

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Speaker 2: he's going to really want to do it something.

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Speaker 3: I think this really interesting that you're making me realize

337
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 3: as we talk about this, and this is kind of

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Speaker 3: something I used to think it's going to sound out

339
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Speaker 3: there at first, but it reminds me of this do

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Speaker 3: you guys? You know Beauty and the Beast, right, the

341
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Speaker 3: classic question. I used to watch that movie and I

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Speaker 3: loved the movie, but at the end I would always

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Speaker 3: kind of feel a little bit sad for Gaston, not

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Speaker 3: because he died because he sucks, but because in any

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Speaker 3: other Disney movie, he would be like the hero, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he would be the guy who's going to kill the

347
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Speaker 3: monster and save the princess. This is kind of giving

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Speaker 3: that vibe where like Minusos is the guy that most

349
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Speaker 3: action TV shows or movies would follow in this story

350
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Speaker 3: trying to save but instead Vince said, well, what if

351
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Speaker 3: we shift to this person who actually is not a

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Speaker 3: selfless person who's not thinking about the world, who is

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Speaker 3: more just pissed off and furious and almost like a

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Speaker 3: side character that you would come across when you were

355
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Speaker 3: trying to survive the apocalypse and flipped it. And I

356
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Speaker 3: think that's really interesting because this episode we get so

357
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Speaker 3: much of Carol's pettiness. Oh my gator raide, wasn't ice cold?

358
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Speaker 3: Drone me? And other one like come on, Like, yeah,

359
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 3: she doesn't have main character syndrome in the way that

360
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 3: Manuso stares wear Manuso. She has the version where everything

361
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Speaker 3: just needs to happen to her at any point. So

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Speaker 3: let's talk a little bit about how much Carol is

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Speaker 3: currently living in the security of this idea that the

364
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Speaker 3: Hive mind cannot turn her after last episode, So Ian

365
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Speaker 3: you you really knowed how this episode she is just

366
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Speaker 3: like on a tear like Okay, well I can do

367
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Speaker 3: whatever I want now because you guys can't turn me.

368
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Speaker 3: So could you talk a little bit about how you

369
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Speaker 3: think that like ties into her journey emotionally throughout the season.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So I think as she leaves Vegas, you know

371
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Speaker 5: when Diabat is like, you know, they do miss you,

372
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Speaker 5: They're just looking for a little bit of a change

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Speaker 5: in attitude, and she's like, fuck them, you know, let

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Speaker 5: them starve, pick a fucking apple, do whatever you gotta do.

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Speaker 4: I'm out of here. She really carries that over.

376
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Speaker 5: Into this episode, and then it just kind of escalates

377
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 5: as as the episode continues. You know, she's being openly

378
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 5: antagonistic and petty with the gatorade. It's not cold enough,

379
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Speaker 5: like what are you guys doing? And then when she

380
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Speaker 5: gets back to Albertquerque, she starts drinking again heavily. She's

381
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Speaker 5: lighting off fireworks, stealing art for museums, destroying property, she

382
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Speaker 5: steals the rolls Royce, and I think she kind of

383
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Speaker 5: slips into this like apathetic nihilism where she's like, you

384
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Speaker 5: know what, they can't turn me, none of this matters.

385
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Speaker 5: I'm gonna do whatever I want. And she kind of

386
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,680
Speaker 5: takes a page out of Diabate's book and starts living

387
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Speaker 5: it up like he does, but in a darker way.

388
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Speaker 3: I want to say, yeah, she does have a darker energy.

389
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Speaker 5: To it, yeah, because I mean clearly she's depressed and

390
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 5: hurt by the fact that no one wants to be

391
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Speaker 5: around her, the survivors or the Hive Mind, and so

392
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Speaker 5: I think that kind of hardens her in a way

393
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Speaker 5: where she's just like, fuck it, then I'll just be

394
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Speaker 5: by myself in Albuquerque and do my thing. But we

395
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Speaker 5: see throughout that process though clearly she is lonely and hurt.

396
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Speaker 5: You know, when she goes to the dinner by herself

397
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Speaker 5: and has them make all these meal from her memories

398
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Speaker 5: and then she's sitting there reflecting she puts on the music.

399
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Speaker 5: There's a sadness to that scene that I think is

400
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,880
Speaker 5: really striking, and I think that's when she starts to realize,

401
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 5: like do I like being alone by myself? Do I

402
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Speaker 5: like being this defiant and indignant?

403
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:14,239
Speaker 4: You know?

404
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 5: And then we cut to Manuso. So then by the

405
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 5: time we get back to Carol, it's been like about

406
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 5: a month of her being alone in Albuquerque. There's a

407
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 5: little bit of a time jump there, and that's when

408
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 5: we see the scene with the fireworks, where that's I

409
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 5: think the true rock bottom moment where she's drunk with

410
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 5: the fireworks. She sees it tip over and she's like,

411
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 5: fuck it. If it happens, it happens, yes, you know,

412
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 5: if not, whatever. And so when it doesn't happen, and

413
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 5: she realized, okay, Like I think that kind of makes

414
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 5: her really realize, like, oh shit, I am lonely, I

415
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 5: do miss Zosha, I don't want to be here by myself.

416
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Speaker 5: And I think that's what inspires her to reach out

417
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 5: and make that plea for connection. And so, you know,

418
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Speaker 5: I think, as we've been saying, that's going to lead

419
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Speaker 5: to a really interesting conflict between her and Manusos where

420
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 5: she's you know, I think they started in similar places,

421
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 5: but Manuso's has stayed in that place and if anything,

422
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 5: has hardened his resolve even more, whereas Carol started there

423
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 5: and has maybe come around to realizing, oh, you know,

424
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Speaker 5: I don't want to be alone. I do have this

425
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 5: desire for connection. Maybe Zosia is not so bad with

426
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 5: the understanding or the thought that they can't turn her.

427
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 5: She's like, maybe I can make the best of this situation.

428
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 3: Uh huh, So how likely do you think? I feel

429
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 3: like it's really going towards a place where Manuso's is

430
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 3: gonna find a way to save the entire world, and

431
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 3: Carol will stop him to save Zosha, and it's gonna

432
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 3: be the same. It's gonna be the same, Like what's

433
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 3: the word like selfishness that she's always.

434
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 4: Had, right because now that doesn't serve her needs anymore.

435
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's interesting to you bring up some good points.

436
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 2: I wanted to point out, like that one thing that

437
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: really struck me about Manusos's even weeks now into his

438
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: understanding thanks to Carol's video, about the kind of nature

439
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 2: of the hive mind that they actually pose no physical

440
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 2: threat at all, and you know they can't do this

441
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 2: and that, and they will do their best basically to

442
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: say yes to any requests that you.

443
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: Make of them.

444
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 2: Even then, he was like unholstering his machete when the

445
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: truck was pulling up behind it, like he's ready, even then,

446
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 2: knowing what they're about to hack them up if I

447
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 2: guess they try and do they cross some line that

448
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 2: he has touched him in some way or something. And

449
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: then with regards to Carol, it reminded me Her journey

450
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: reminded me a lot of you know, when you're a

451
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 2: kid in like you're like I'm going to run away,

452
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to like, that's it, mom, I'm leaving. Really,

453
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 2: really what you want, even though like you don't have

454
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 2: the ability to like express it, is like you want

455
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 2: some somebody to listen to you, You want some attention.

456
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 2: You feel like you're not getting it, and so you're like, yeah,

457
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 2: watch that, Yeah, I don't need you.

458
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna live on my own.

459
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 2: And that really is Carol's entire journey this episode.

460
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: And listen, I don't know.

461
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 2: I think part of Carol's problem is that she can't

462
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: listen to anybody else, Like she's such a world builder

463
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 2: as a writer, yeah, and as a person who's made

464
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 2: creation like her.

465
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: Life that.

466
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 2: She can't She doesn't really collaborate and is not and

467
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: I mean this in a nice way, is like not

468
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 2: super interested. Like the fact that she could never she

469
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: never knew what Helen really thought about her stuff is

470
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 2: to me kind of indicative of the fact that she's

471
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 2: not super interested in anybody else's opinion.

472
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: And maybe that she's.

473
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 2: Just coming around now to realizing that needs to change

474
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 2: on some level. Maybe she hasn't got there yet, but

475
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 2: she's been faced with the with the outcomes of her

476
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 2: not listening to anybody. She's not yes on any level,

477
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 2: so she's she's having to She's realizing I think an

478
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: important fact, which is she can't do it alone anything,

479
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: And yet same as everybody here, I am fascinated to see.

480
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: I think Manusa's is gonna scare her.

481
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: I think, do you think that he is going to

482
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 3: be the main thing we deal with in the finale

483
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 3: or do you think that we are gonna get more

484
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 3: information about the Hive Mind. I think at this point

485
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: I would rather they keep the reveal of the true

486
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 3: nature of the Hive Mind till season two because I

487
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 3: think the characters we have, I am so engaged with them,

488
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 3: and this show is doing something that I've always hoped

489
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 3: genre shows would do more. And what is one of

490
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 3: the things that we have shouted out about the contemporary

491
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: ideas of the MCU and the DCU, which is like,

492
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 3: what would it be like to be a you know,

493
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 3: quote unquote normal person when this is happening? And I

494
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: think I could legit watch three, four or five seasons

495
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 3: of this and probably never need to know what the

496
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 3: Hive Mind really wants, because what's interesting is just seeing

497
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 3: people navigate this new world order and this new space

498
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 3: that's so out there and can be so huge because

499
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 3: of the Apple budget. You can have drones flying around

500
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 3: to deliver, you can have crazy fireworks. You know this

501
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 3: show exactly. Okay, let me ask you guys about this

502
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 3: specific episode. Some of the discourse it's been quite a

503
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 3: divisive one. That has been the conversation of nothing really

504
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 3: happens in the episode, and lots of people are saying,

505
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 3: I love that it's super radical. It feels like we're

506
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 3: getting so much character work. It's a tone poem. And

507
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 3: some people are like, you just burned like an hour

508
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 3: of my time. How do you guys feel like about

509
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 3: this episode in an era where we do only get

510
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 3: eight episodes a season.

511
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm okay with.

512
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 2: It, and I'm like you, I feel like the ambiguous

513
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: Here's what's interesting to me about the ambiguousness of the

514
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: Hive Mind and answers with regards to the Hive Mind.

515
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: They don't know either, Like we find out two episodes

516
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: ago that they only found out, you know whatever, twenty

517
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: four hours before in fictional time before the scene, that

518
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 2: they need stem cells to infect the survival, Like they

519
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 2: are also learning they don't have any other like orders

520
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: from whoever sent the message all that happened. Yeah, they're

521
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,959
Speaker 2: learning on the job, whatever the job is. They've basically

522
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: been turned into this hive mind and given no other instructions.

523
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: So what's interesting to me is that the fact that

524
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: the antagonist, if that is, if the hive mind is

525
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: can truly be called the antagonist, also doesn't have any answers.

526
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: They also don't.

527
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: Know what they're doing.

528
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: I like that they are also researching and learning on

529
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: the job, So to me.

530
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: That helps.

531
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: There's no like mystery at the end. There's no like

532
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: secret answer in a chest somewhere in a secret cave.

533
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 3: It doesn't feel like a puzzle.

534
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like same way.

535
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 3: It feels like you're getting something from watching. Even just

536
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 3: if this season, if Vince decided that he wanted to

537
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 3: end this season with the end of Carol's story, which

538
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 3: I don't think he's gonna do, because I think this

539
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: could become an Emmy and Awards season just blow out

540
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 3: every season, so I'm sure Apple will keep the same cost.

541
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 3: But even if he did want to do like an

542
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 3: anthology and we went to a totally different person, I

543
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 3: would be fine. I'm intrigued in looking at how people

544
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 3: would survive a hypothetic or like this in such a

545
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 3: different way than we've ever seen it before. It's such

546
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: a unique take that I think it makes it worthwhile

547
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 3: And we always argue that actually we need more slow

548
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 3: episodes in TV. That was the joy of the twenty

549
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: three twenty five episode season. You know, Ian, what do

550
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 3: you feel about those criticisms, because I think you were

551
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 3: on the same page as us, like this felt like

552
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 3: an episode that was necessary and that worked even though

553
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: it was a slower episode.

554
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I just want to say, like,

555
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 5: have you watched any Vince Gilligan shows before, Like most

556
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 5: of the shows are slow burn, Like Better Call Saul

557
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 5: is a very slow burn, and it focuses more on

558
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 5: the character moments and the relationships between the characters. They're

559
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 5: obviously you know that we need some plot momentum. But

560
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 5: I don't think this episode suffered from being a slower episode.

561
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed it. And I think we learn.

562
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 5: More about Manusos and and what his beliefs are and

563
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 5: his resolve, and I think that was really interesting. And

564
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 5: then seeing Carol kind of, you know, continue on this

565
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 5: emotional journey and have her maybe you know, come to

566
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 5: this realization or shift in her stance. I think that

567
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 5: was really interesting to see, and I think we eat

568
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 5: an episode like this to set up, you know, the

569
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 5: final two episodes where I assume, you know, Carol and

570
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 5: Zosher are going to rekindle this relationship. There's that's going

571
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 5: to be interesting to see. Is Carol take a different

572
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 5: approach or how is she going to be coming out

573
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 5: of this isolation and depression, and then leading into the finale,

574
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 5: you know, when Carol and Manusso's finally do meet, Like,

575
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 5: now that Carol has had this paradigm shift a little bit,

576
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 5: how is that going to go when they finally do

577
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 5: meet up. So, I think to set up those beats

578
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 5: at the finale, we needed this episode, and you know,

579
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 5: I just don't think it would work without it. So

580
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 5: I personally love the episode, and I don't understand the

581
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 5: criticism that it's.

582
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 4: It was boring or too slow. It's good TV.

583
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

584
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 2: What I love about it, to your point is it's

585
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: basically set up a be careful what you ask for

586
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: for Carol. Yes, Carol spent the entire season since this happened,

587
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: pleading with any of the survivors to listen to her

588
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: to pay attention.

589
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: This is terrible. What's happening. We need to do something.

590
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: Won't somebody step up and help me as we try

591
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 2: to save the world.

592
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: Well, someone has heard the call.

593
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 3: Now and what does that look like?

594
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: And what does that look like? And I don't think

595
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: she's gonna be happy with any of the solutions that

596
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: Manuso's is gonna be willing.

597
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: To offer her.

598
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 3: Well, I also like, I got I gotta ask, like,

599
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 3: is the next episode are they gonna because we've got

600
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 3: two more till the phinmale to seven, then we have

601
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 3: eight and nine, Right, is the next episode gonna really

602
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: like connect with Soosha and Carol and have this emotional

603
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 3: base for that relationship and then see Manusos get there

604
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 3: in the finale and that be a huge conflict.

605
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 4: That's what they're setting up.

606
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do worry that Zosha will die. I think

607
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: Carl has to wonder about.

608
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 3: Anything to stop her dying because she is now her

609
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 3: one human connection. But I also feel like Vince has

610
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 3: the chops for like a thirty five to fifty five

611
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 3: minute episode next week that just makes us so invested

612
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 3: in Carol and Zosha and also like carrols Yeah, yeah,

613
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: to then really make that kick home in the finale. Also,

614
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 3: Carol's trauma that she's been through is so horrendous with

615
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 3: the with the conversion camp, and I think that we're

616
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: going to get more understanding of that. And also I

617
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: just had a realization that could be a potential issue

618
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 3: between Manuso's and Carol because.

619
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: If he is indeed very religious, if he's.

620
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 3: Very religious and Carol has the history with the conversion camp,

621
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: I think it's just going to be so interesting thing

622
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: to see how those plot lines tie together. And I

623
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: really do think that Vince has got the chops. I mean,

624
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: the show has not even ended yet and it's almost

625
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 3: people's best.

626
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: He's he's a master.

627
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 2: Okay, quick quick quick question to end with, why hasn't

628
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 2: Carol asked the Hive mind to just be like, listen,

629
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: I've heard the message on the phone call so many times.

630
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 2: Just make it or just immediate beep to the message recording.

631
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: Right, I got it.

632
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 2: I know that you're you have to take space, fine,

633
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: just immediately go to.

634
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 5: The beep that happens. I'm like, we know what the

635
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 5: recording says, like at least cut away or like we

636
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 5: don't need to hear.

637
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 4: The whole thing.

638
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 5: I think Vince is trolling the audience because, like after

639
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 5: the second episode of that, I was like, come on,

640
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 5: we know what the records.

641
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 3: To feel the same desperation and isolation as Carol. Vince

642
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 3: is working. I don't need to so that. Jason, you

643
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 3: do raise a good point. How specific and like annoying

644
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 3: can you get with your request because Carol's has been

645
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 3: to the general quite simple so far. It's mostly like

646
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 3: food groceries, but like can you call them and be like, hey,

647
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 3: I want my house painted the outside painted pink? And well,

648
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 3: I think you know, I think you could do it.

649
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 3: I think can you change this voicemail message is too

650
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 3: long for me? Like, I would love to know if

651
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 3: you're not Carol, what they will do for you. Well,

652
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 3: I guess we've seen with someone like Diabot, who has

653
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 3: you know, everything that everyone.

654
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

655
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: I think a lot of Carol's like actions in this

656
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 2: episode or direct response to, like her meeting with Diabate,

657
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: everything she learned and seeing the way Diabat lives. I

658
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: think she was like I think with the gatorade, she's

659
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: thinking like, fine, that's what you guys want to do

660
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 2: you guys want to just like take orders like mindlessly, Well,

661
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: this is what I want. I want the most specific

662
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: gatorade order ever, and then it when it doesn't meet my,

663
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 2: uh my exacting request, I will complain about it because

664
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 2: I guess that's what you want, right, you want that. Yeah,

665
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: it's this kind of like it's this petulance of you know,

666
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 2: thrashing around trying to grapple with the way the world

667
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: is now and seeing other people somehow. I mean, it

668
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 2: must be infuriating right to look at Diabat and think, Jesus,

669
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 2: does he just have no.

670
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 3: Worry?

671
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: Does he have no concerns?

672
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: Like it I even when he said listen, I find

673
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: it very distressing when I learned about the people protein

674
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 2: Like even when just him saying that, I was like,

675
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: oh good, he there is still like some yeah, there's something.

676
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: It's not just this.

677
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 2: Everything is great, but still it must be so troubling

678
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 2: to her that she is just like filled with turmoil

679
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: and everybody else seems to be having a great time.

680
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 5: Everybody else is making lemonade out of lemons and curls

681
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 5: like yeah, yeah, well.

682
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 3: You guys have actually raised a great point where when

683
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 3: it comes to kind of you know what the show

684
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 3: is about. As you were talking about that, I was like, wow,

685
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 3: I love TV because that is also just so relatable

686
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 3: to like anyone who's had depression or like trad or

687
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 3: like any kind of you know, those days where you

688
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 3: just freeze and you can't do anything, and you're like, well,

689
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 3: everyone's out and everybody's doing something fun, and if they're not,

690
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 3: then they're working on their really important project. And what

691
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: should I do. Well, I've got a day off. Should

692
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 3: I work on my project, Should I work on my script?

693
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 3: Should I play in my PlayStation? Should I just sit?

694
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 3: And you end up sitting there and doing nothing because

695
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 3: you're almost frozen by the choices. I also feel like

696
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 3: we're getting an element of that with Carol. It's I mean,

697
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: it's the most extreme version where it's this idea of

698
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 3: like she sort of has everything at her fingertips, but

699
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 3: she's so unhappy that it will never defeat the nWay.

700
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 3: Everything's boring, everything's terrible, And obviously a lot of that

701
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 3: does come from being alone, not having community. But there's

702
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: just so many layers to this show, and I feel

703
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 3: like the best thing about it is the more we

704
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 3: talk about it, the more we kind of are always

705
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 3: uncovering different little like thoughts and plot points and notions

706
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 3: that might have gone into it. And that's the kind

707
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 3: of TV that's going to last for years, because you're

708
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 3: going to have people talking about the same things we're

709
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 3: talking about and different things we haven't even thought about

710
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 3: but in ten years, right, because the show is that unique.

711
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 4: Yeah too too.

712
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: I'm sad that we're approaching the finale, Yes.

713
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 3: I know.

714
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, just to the last point you made, Rosie, It's

715
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 5: it made me think too when I was watching the episode.

716
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 5: It's like, what's kind of the point of having everything

717
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 5: at your fingertips if you don't have anyone to share

718
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 5: those experiences or moments with you. And that's what Carol,

719
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 5: I think, is grappling with as well. She's like, Oh,

720
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 5: they can make me e meal from any memory I've

721
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 5: ever had, but like I'm sitting here alone in this

722
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 5: empty restaurant eating it by myself, you know. So yeah,

723
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 5: I think that it asked that interesting question too.

724
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's ask the tough Diabarte question. Because obviously

725
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: we know we love Deabarte he has become a fan favorite,

726
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 3: but also is, and we have talked about how well

727
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 3: they've kind of balanced the everything that he's doing and

728
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 3: the way the hive mind works is very murky right now.

729
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 3: But at the same time, isn't there something really interesting

730
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 3: about the fact that the character is having a great time,

731
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 3: is just getting along, who's doing the thing, who's surviving.

732
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 3: He is kind of doing that by ignoring the reality

733
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 3: of what's going on. And the person who is real

734
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 3: about the reality, Carol, is just the most fucking annoying

735
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 3: person you've ever met. And isn't that like so real? Yes,

736
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 3: like the person you want not always hear that everything's

737
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 3: terrible and the system is fucked and you need to

738
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 3: do this and you can't do it by your and

739
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: that is very much what Carol's living in. And again,

740
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 3: I think Vince is doing these really interesting things of

741
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 3: making her unlikable, but she's also the most relatable human

742
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 3: person on the show that you would hope you would

743
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 3: at least be on her side of things, right, you'd

744
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 3: at least be in that I want to save the

745
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 3: world side of things.

746
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 5: And it's also interesting just even thinking thinking about it now,

747
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 5: what you just said, you know, diabate Carol and Manusos

748
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 5: are alone. They are by themselves, whereas the other survivors

749
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 5: have family members, you know, kids or siblings or partners

750
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 5: or whatever, and so their experience and I'm hoping or

751
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 5: curious to see if we'll check in with any of

752
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 5: those people a little bit more for the rest of

753
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 5: the season. But you know, the way they're handling things

754
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 5: because they still they have family members and people that

755
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 5: they care about from before the joining are still with them.

756
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 5: The way they're handling things I think is going to

757
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 5: be in start contrast to the way Manuso's, Carol and

758
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 5: Diabate handle things.

759
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 3: Not gonna be willing to risk their family right right.

760
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 5: But then even with the three of them, like they

761
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 5: even though they're all isolated and alone, they're handling it

762
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 5: in three very different ways. Now, Diabate is like hedonistic,

763
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 5: living it up. He has his hair rum, he's living

764
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 5: his best James Bond life. Manusos is so hardcore, like

765
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 5: I gotta save the world, fuck everybody, you know. And

766
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 5: then Carol's somewhere in the middle. She started closer to

767
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 5: Manusos and is maybe inching closer towards Diabate, and so

768
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 5: I think that's also really interesting dynamic too.

769
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 3: I'm starting to realize Ian that I think you may

770
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 3: be putting together a team actually maybe that maybe it's

771
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 3: not a conflict. I think that what you're bringing up

772
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 3: here is really smart, which is the three people who

773
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 3: are all dealing with this insanely differently are also the

774
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 3: three people who are alone. We're probably gonna have to

775
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 3: come together because obviously, yeah, nobody whose sister is part

776
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: of the Hive Mind or whose kid is part of

777
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 3: the Hive Mind is gonna want to have to, you know,

778
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 3: give them off as part of the unjoining exactly.

779
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 5: So yeah, I think that that can maybe be the

780
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 5: conflict for season two or something further down the road.

781
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 5: But I think that sets up an interesting dynamic as well.

782
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean, the show's been excellent. This season

783
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 5: has been amazing so far. I just can't wait to

784
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 5: see what happens in the next two episodes Vince's cooking.

785
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 3: What's your biggest like crazy out there pitch for the

786
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: last two episodes and the kind of big reveals that

787
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 3: we'll get. What do you feel like after watching these episodes,

788
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 3: digging into the season or season, where do you feel

789
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: like it's going next?

790
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, like we've said, you know, the next

791
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 5: episode I think is going to be this kind of

792
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 5: reunion Carolyn Zosha. It's gonna be beautiful emotional moment. They're

793
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 5: probably gonna connect, and then we're going to have the

794
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 5: conflict where Manuso's comes in. He's like, wait, what are

795
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 5: you doing hanging out with this hivelind woman? Like I

796
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 5: thought you wanted to save the world? Are you one

797
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 5: of them now too?

798
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 4: You know?

799
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 5: So I think that's going to be the main conflict

800
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 5: in the finale, and I think, thinking back to what

801
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 5: we just said, I think setting up that maybe the

802
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 5: three of them trying to have to do something and

803
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 5: convincing the rest of the survivors for a future season.

804
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 5: I could see that going somewhere. And I have to

805
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 5: imagine in the finale to what we will learn a

806
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 5: little bit more about maybe the origins of the Highmind virus,

807
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 5: or find out a little bit more of what their

808
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 5: ultimate end goal is or something. I don't think he's

809
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 5: going to end the season without revealing a little bit more. Yeah,

810
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 5: a taste or maybe the Carol's eggs will come into

811
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 5: play in the finale and that'll be the big like

812
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 5: thing like, oh, you know, they're going to use their

813
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 5: eggs to turners.

814
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 2: By the way, with regards to the that would be crazy.

815
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 2: I do wonder now that Manusos is in hospital.

816
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 4: Are they going to take some stem cells from him?

817
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: I mean, like if he's just bleeding.

818
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 3: You know, I know, like what if he says, like

819
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 3: what if they say to him, oh, hey, do you

820
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 3: accept medical care to save your life? And he says yes,

821
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 3: and they count that as consent?

822
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 5: Right, Because somebody in a discord brought up an interesting

823
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 5: point where you know where it was the Grenade episode

824
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 5: where Carol's in the ambulance with Zosha and they're you know,

825
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 5: ask them like, do you want us to clean up

826
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 5: your house? And they said she like kind of absent

827
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 5: mindedly nodded yes, like not really paying attention, and they

828
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 5: took that as her consenting. So like, it seems like

829
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 5: their definition of consent can be kind of really loose

830
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 5: depending on the context. So that is a good point, Rosie.

831
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 5: They might just like take it from him while he's

832
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 5: unconscious or barely conscious or something.

833
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 3: Jason, you raised this, and I do think now this

834
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 3: is very intriguing because what if they get the semstells

835
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 3: and they join him, but then they choose to have

836
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 3: like pretend that he's not joined, you.

837
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: Know, would they do that?

838
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 2: I don't really, I don't think they can do that,

839
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: but I will say that it's interesting though. If we're

840
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 2: right about the stem cells, once material genetic material is

841
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: outside of the body, they don't have to theoretically they

842
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: would not need to ask for permission exactly.

843
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:01,919
Speaker 1: So if they have.

844
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: Manuso's in the hospital and they're saving his life and whatever,

845
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 2: you know, in the process of that, they're taking blood

846
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 2: or there's you know, flesh, or they need maveragery and

847
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 2: so there's stuff you know on the side now that's

848
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: not part of him. I do wonder if now they

849
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 2: are able to infect him and if that and if

850
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: in doing that the light bulb goes on for Carol

851
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 2: that oh shit, my eggs.

852
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 3: Right, yes, oh, a teaching lesson character. I could definitely

853
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 3: see Manusos be that, especially because he went through it

854
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 3: this episode like he fought for his life and he

855
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 3: got his big episode.

856
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 1: Oh.

857
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 3: I can't wait, guys.

858
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: Yes, I can't wait.

859
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 2: Well, on the next episode of Extra Vision, we're diving

860
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 2: into the season finale of it. Welcome to Darry and

861
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: we eagerly await the season finale.

862
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: Plurvis.

863
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode, Ian, Rosie, thanks for joining us,

864
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, all of you.

865
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: Goodbye bye, Thanks you.

866
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 2: X ray Vision is hosted by Jasoncepcion and Rosie Knight

867
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 2: and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

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Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.

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Speaker 3: Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fay Wag.

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Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

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Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

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Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and

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Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator.