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Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's the Velvet's

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Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson. Hey, y'all, Um, Kelly van

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Speaker 1: in here another Kelly. Not our our usual Kelly Henderson.

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Speaker 1: But I am filling in today for Kelly. And I've

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Speaker 1: actually I've been on Velvet Sedge. It was a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago. UM. I admired Kelly Henderson so much. UM.

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Speaker 1: I just think she's badass and she is who she is,

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Speaker 1: and I am always inspired about by how she is

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Speaker 1: unapologetically herself. UM has carved out so many places for

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Speaker 1: her for herself to be herself. I find that so

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Speaker 1: cool and inspiring. UM. A little bit about me. I

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Speaker 1: am a singer songwriter here in Nashville, Tennessee. This is

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Speaker 1: my hometown. I host a couple of shows for Apple

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Speaker 1: Music Radio, UM, a daily show and a weekly show

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Speaker 1: for them, and so that's a lot of my days

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Speaker 1: are talking to people, UM and all that kind of

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Speaker 1: out of a podcast that I launched maybe six years

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Speaker 1: ago or so. It was called This Nashville Life. So

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Speaker 1: I'm I don't get to do as many podcasts now

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Speaker 1: as I did back then. So I'm really thrilled to

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Speaker 1: get to be UM together, I get to be in

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Speaker 1: this podcast space UM and and kind of filling in

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Speaker 1: for Kelly. I listened to UM the the episode a

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Speaker 1: few ago that was just like the short kind of

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Speaker 1: episode from Kelly that she was just talking about UM

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Speaker 1: the need to take time off. And I found that

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Speaker 1: in and of itself, UM just super encouraging and super inspiring.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted to just say, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: Kelly is gonna listen to any of our episodes but

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Speaker 1: while while she's gone, But if I was writing a

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Speaker 1: love letter to Kelly right now and you were listening

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Speaker 1: to it, UM, it would just be that UM this

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Speaker 1: season because it sounds like it's kind of been a

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Speaker 1: painful one that this season would UM would be useful,

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Speaker 1: that it would be redemptive in her life. And I, UM,

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Speaker 1: Kelly knows a little bit about my story. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: share a little bit of it with y'all now. But

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Speaker 1: I have found I have a lot of loss in

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Speaker 1: my story. UM. And I had two siblings. My younger

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Speaker 1: brother Grant and my older my older half brother Sean,

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Speaker 1: both passed away a little over ten years ago, UM

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Speaker 1: tragically in UM, both drug related UM deaths and out

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Speaker 1: of that, my world was really spinning. And watching my

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Speaker 1: parents suffer through that was really painful. It was painful

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Speaker 1: to also just like go through that as a sister.

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Speaker 1: But what I can say about pain, what I can

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Speaker 1: say about suffering UM, is that the other side of it,

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Speaker 1: like there will be one, there will be another side,

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Speaker 1: and that too, Aine and suffering, as much as they suck,

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Speaker 1: are a very very useful tool for UM becoming like

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Speaker 1: a better, cool or nicer person. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: I hope that doesn't sound trivial, but I am confident

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Speaker 1: that I would never wish my story on anyone else.

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Speaker 1: I wish it hadn't happened to me. And I bet

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Speaker 1: you feel that way too, maybe if you have loss

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Speaker 1: in your life. But I know, in like the depths

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Speaker 1: of my heart that I am a better person because

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Speaker 1: I have UM, because of the loss in my story

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Speaker 1: and because UM, I have had suffering, and I can

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Speaker 1: be empathetic with people in a different way. And so

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Speaker 1: all I would say, too is the thing that I

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Speaker 1: think is really hard in this culture that we live

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Speaker 1: in now is it's almost like we want the fruit

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Speaker 1: out of order, and and when you're in a season

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Speaker 1: that's a crappy, shitty season, like there isn't a shortcut

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Speaker 1: and and it's really hard when people want you to

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Speaker 1: kind of cheer up or like even the pandemic, it's

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Speaker 1: like no, it's yeah, this is hard. So there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be fruit and there's gonna be there's gonna be healing

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Speaker 1: on the other side. But when you're in it, or

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Speaker 1: like when you're in a recent loss, if you are

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Speaker 1: are recovering from a trauma, that's gonna be like you

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Speaker 1: don't have to rush through your healing. It will take

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Speaker 1: its own time. It is up and down and um,

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Speaker 1: and and like let me and I just want to

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Speaker 1: promise you that there is and that there is another side.

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Speaker 1: The other side is waiting for you, and there's just

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Speaker 1: there's just no shortcut. Um. But we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: something today that I think, actually, if there is a shortcut,

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Speaker 1: and really that's not what it is, but if there

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Speaker 1: is a path to healing for me in my life,

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Speaker 1: it's a big part of my story is actually, um,

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Speaker 1: the growth and healing that I found in therapy, and

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Speaker 1: that was for a couple of reasons. One, like I said,

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Speaker 1: I my brother, my brother Grant passed away, and then

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Speaker 1: my older half brother Sean passed away, and in that

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Speaker 1: my husband and I our marriage was just coming apart,

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Speaker 1: and we felt such desperation. It was like we didn't

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Speaker 1: know what to do with the feelings that we were

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Speaker 1: having about the loss, and we didn't know what to

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Speaker 1: do with the conflict that we were having in our marriage,

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Speaker 1: and we started going to counseling. We called it counseling

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Speaker 1: back then. It was also very it felt very taboo

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Speaker 1: twelve years ago probably when that was all happening, because

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Speaker 1: two ten probably um, two thousand nine, so uh, that

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Speaker 1: has been a huge part of our story and out

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Speaker 1: of our own journey in therapy. My husband actually went

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Speaker 1: back to school and became a therapist. So I thought

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Speaker 1: it would actually be kind of interesting today to ask

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Speaker 1: him questions that like our friends asked him a lot

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Speaker 1: or um that there's a lot of mystery around the

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Speaker 1: counseling world and what happens between a therapist and a client,

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Speaker 1: and you know, things that people well maybe are afraid

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Speaker 1: to ask were. So we're gonna get a little nitty

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Speaker 1: gritty um and I'm going to actually put my husband

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the microphone and ask him

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Speaker 1: about being a therapist. His name is Jeff Gross Smith.

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Speaker 1: And so now I'm gonna welcome Jeff. I interview a

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Speaker 1: lot of pe fule. I've never interviewed my husband before.

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of nervous. He's already liked said things that

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Speaker 1: we can't include in the podcast. Okay, So, Jeff, I

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Speaker 1: was thinking the way that we could set up this converse.

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Speaker 1: Do you wanna say hi, Hello? Do you need me

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Speaker 1: to move your microphone clothes? Or do you you want

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Speaker 1: to lean over to talk into it? Okay, you're doing good.

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Speaker 1: I feel kind of like an artist though, like I

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Speaker 1: could sing a little. You feel like like who you

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Speaker 1: think you're me? Now? You are like eating the microphone

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Speaker 1: when they're singing. Yeah, you want to do a little

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Speaker 1: you want to do a little ditty for us, you

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Speaker 1: want to get laid on us. It's not actually saying

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Speaker 1: I know. So here's what I was thinking. Um, I

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Speaker 1: was thinking we could start with your therapist. You have

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Speaker 1: this kind of like interesting, cool job. I think there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of mystery around too, and my thought was

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Speaker 1: we could kind of demystify like what it is, what

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Speaker 1: therapy is, what counseling is what you do in the

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Speaker 1: counseling room, and like maybe there there's a way that

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Speaker 1: that conversation could inform people that are on their own

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Speaker 1: mental health journey. UM. And I think it's just kind

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Speaker 1: of fascinating. I've never really turned the tables on you

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Speaker 1: and talked to you about like a lot of this

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Speaker 1: stuff before. So what I was thinking is like, could

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Speaker 1: you start with just a little background, Like we don't

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Speaker 1: need the forty five minute version, but like what's the

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Speaker 1: couple of minute version of your background in the therapy world,

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Speaker 1: Like how were you first introduced to therapy in your

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Speaker 1: own life? Yeah, I don't have a forty five minute version,

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Speaker 1: so I'll just give you like the version. UM. I

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Speaker 1: would say, we got introduced to therapy together at a

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Speaker 1: time when our life in our marriage seemed like it

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Speaker 1: was not working or spiraling out of control, and so

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Speaker 1: we started, um because we grew up I think both

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Speaker 1: with some version of a church background, so we started

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Speaker 1: I think we kind of both already knew that our

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Speaker 1: families weren't going to be able to help us. They

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Speaker 1: were probably significant causes to a lot of our dysfunction together,

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Speaker 1: so we kind of went to the place that we

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Speaker 1: thought could help us, which was the church, and we

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Speaker 1: had some bad experience and really bad therapy. Help. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: in churches there's like a quote pastor who's a counselor,

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Speaker 1: but they are often not. Actually they aren't trained, like

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Speaker 1: the way that you went back to school got your masters, like.

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Speaker 1: They often don't have any kind of accreditation for that.

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Speaker 1: They're just like, oh, I'm like a wise person that

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Speaker 1: helps people. Yeah. Yeah, And we got probably was some

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Speaker 1: that were not very good. So I think we had

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Speaker 1: left those experiences thinking we really do need help, and

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Speaker 1: we found a counselor, and um, I think we were

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Speaker 1: having difficulty adjusting to what it looks like to give

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Speaker 1: up ourselves for one another in marriage. I would say

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Speaker 1: the loss of your brother was a contributing factor. I

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Speaker 1: would say me working for your crazy dad was a

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Speaker 1: contraining factor. And so we found a counselor and we

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Speaker 1: went uh some version of weekly. Um. We actually went

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Speaker 1: for six months. I think I quit. I don't even

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Speaker 1: know if it was that long before you quit. And

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Speaker 1: then I remember really clearly he was like, do you

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Speaker 1: want to keep coming? You were like yes, and he

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Speaker 1: looked at me. It was like, do you care if

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Speaker 1: she keeps coming? And I was like no, So I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to stop there for a second. That's right, guys.

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Speaker 1: The man who went on to be therapist after six

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Speaker 1: UM quit after his first six months of marital therapy

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Speaker 1: with because well, I don't know, why did you you

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Speaker 1: just relate? This is stupid, it's not helping. I went

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Speaker 1: out of here or what did you what happened? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I would say probably it had to do

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Speaker 1: with money, because that's a big part of my story.

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Speaker 1: So it was expensive. It cost a lot, most a lot.

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Speaker 1: And then I think I just yeah, at that time

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Speaker 1: in my life, I think I was like, this guy's

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Speaker 1: not gonna help. But I mean he's given me what

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Speaker 1: he can. I think I'm done with him. And you

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Speaker 1: were You kept going, and I think that was when,

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Speaker 1: you know, probably four or five months later, I was

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Speaker 1: realizing like you were changing and growing and I was not,

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Speaker 1: And I think I started to get scared that you

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Speaker 1: would grow past me and leave me. And then I

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Speaker 1: remember I wanted to come back and there it was

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Speaker 1: hard to get back in UM, but we did get back,

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Speaker 1: and then I think we did some version of weekly

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Speaker 1: therapy together. For another three years, maybe at least I

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Speaker 1: think four years, and then as part of that, I

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Speaker 1: started doing he recommended or kind of made me to

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Speaker 1: get back into therapy. Do he's kind of a bossy therapy.

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Speaker 1: He's a great therapist, but he's kind of a bossy therapist.

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Speaker 1: So for me to come back, I had to do

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Speaker 1: a group. Yeah, I think he he had there were

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Speaker 1: contingencies that was like or or stipulations like if you're

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Speaker 1: going to return to therapy, I want you to be

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Speaker 1: in a group. Which what is a group? What's a group?

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Speaker 1: What's group therapy? Well I didn't know at the time, um,

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Speaker 1: but group therapy is just kind of like doing individual

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Speaker 1: or a couple of therapy, except you're doing it with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people who you don't know. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: it is what it is, right, It's it's what it

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Speaker 1: says that it's therapy and a group setting. So I

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Speaker 1: did that and I actually it was that was what

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Speaker 1: really changed I think for me was the therapy and

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Speaker 1: a group. Um. I think the observational nature of it

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Speaker 1: helped me to learn more about feelings, like the feelings

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Speaker 1: that I probably was having and didn't know I was

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Speaker 1: having by watching other people have them in the setting

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Speaker 1: of the group. So oh, so you're saying like in

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Speaker 1: group for you, not as much as like what you

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Speaker 1: were specifically working on as a member, but you could

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Speaker 1: watch the dynamics of the group and watch other people

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Speaker 1: say like, wow, that makes me feel really sad when

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Speaker 1: that you were watching people start to use language around

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Speaker 1: their feelings and you were that was like your training ground. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I grew up in a family where there was

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Speaker 1: the feeling was glad. That was the only that was mad.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say maybe mad and maybe some sad,

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Speaker 1: like maybe mostly just be glad. So it was be happy.

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Speaker 1: It was helpful for me to like see, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think my first couple of years of therapy was

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Speaker 1: just working with the idea that like, oh, not all

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Speaker 1: of these feelings are bad. Oh yes, it's a big,

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Speaker 1: big part of the journey. So anyway, ultimately I was

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Speaker 1: in the car business, which was part of the craziness

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Speaker 1: of our marriage early on, and then your dad decided

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Speaker 1: to sell that dealership that um I was running with

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Speaker 1: him at the time, and then I kind of had

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Speaker 1: this freedom to kind of think about what to do

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Speaker 1: with my life. And the thing that I had probably

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Speaker 1: enjoyed the most was group therapy. So I went back

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Speaker 1: to school to be a group therapist, and like, if

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Speaker 1: you were to say what kind of healing or what

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Speaker 1: kind of growth have you seen in yourself? That was like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: this is helping me, This is meaningful to me, Like

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Speaker 1: what was meaningful about it? What could you look to

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Speaker 1: in your life and go, my life is better because sure,

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Speaker 1: yeah for me if we go back to my therapy

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Speaker 1: or saying yeah when so my therapy was pretty tangibly

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Speaker 1: two things um. The first one which was the thing

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Speaker 1: that's near and dear to my heart is money. And

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Speaker 1: I was aware of building a whole life around like

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Speaker 1: is there enough? How do we make sure there's yeah?

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Speaker 1: And I think what was happening is I was doing

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Speaker 1: group therapy and doing therapy with you. I was becoming

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Speaker 1: not only more accessible to the feelings I was having,

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Speaker 1: but I became significantly more aware of the feelings other

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Speaker 1: people were having. And as I became more aware of that,

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Speaker 1: I became a better leader and manager at work, which

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Speaker 1: then impacted my ability to make money and be successful,

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Speaker 1: which is like up my alley. So I was loving

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Speaker 1: that and then I think secondly, I was connecting with

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Speaker 1: you differently. I don't know if that should be the

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Speaker 1: second one, but that was the second one at the time,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm glad I'm in there. I was connecting

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Speaker 1: with you more, and so it was like a win win, right.

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Speaker 1: I was like better at what I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: good at and I was connecting with you more, which

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Speaker 1: is the original reason we went to and we're going

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Speaker 1: so I was like, oh, this is great, and then

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Speaker 1: I was hooked. I would also just like if I

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Speaker 1: was just gonna pop in, Like I don't know where

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Speaker 1: people are in their lives, but our marriage was in

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Speaker 1: such a bad, hard place at that time. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think that you have to go to counseling or

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Speaker 1: have to have therapy in your life in order to

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Speaker 1: grow your fix your marriage. But for us, when I

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Speaker 1: look back at how bad are like, I think we

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Speaker 1: can both say that without hurting each other's feelings, it's like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: there was so much healing, so much growth that was possible.

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Speaker 1: Like if you're listening and you don't want to give

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Speaker 1: up on your marriage, but it feels hopeless, like there

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Speaker 1: are like I feel like we're an example of like

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Speaker 1: it's not hopeless, Like it can feel really hopeless and

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Speaker 1: it's not there. There is always hope. In fact, there

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Speaker 1: was a quote that that therapist had. He had like

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Speaker 1: the Latin version of it on a mug, and it

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Speaker 1: was where there's breath, there is hope. It's like, as

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Speaker 1: long as your heart is still beating and your lungs

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Speaker 1: are still breathing in and hell like, there is hope

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Speaker 1: for change and you know, and healing. So so you

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Speaker 1: go out to school, We're going to fast forward through

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Speaker 1: that um and you open a practice here in Nashville

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Speaker 1: as kind of a second career in your mid thirties.

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Speaker 1: But like demystify for us, like why does therapy work?

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Speaker 1: What is the what is the foundational thing that's happening

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Speaker 1: between those two people in the room, regardless of the

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Speaker 1: style of therapy or the framework. What is happening between

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Speaker 1: two people behind that closed door or if it's a

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Speaker 1: couple of three people, what's actually happening that makes healing happen.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I have the answer to that question.

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Speaker 1: But as I've done, you know, like I guess to

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Speaker 1: continue some version of as we've gone on, we no

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Speaker 1: longer do couples counseling, but we do most of our

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Speaker 1: work individually. You and I, yeah, yeah, we both see

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Speaker 1: individual therapists as part of our health, our overall health. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And as I've done that and as I've read like literature,

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Speaker 1: I would say my work has become the ability to

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Speaker 1: put my thoughts and feelings into words. And I've my

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Speaker 1: experiences is that And I think literature kind of says

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Speaker 1: that as people learn to do that for themselves in

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Speaker 1: relationship with other people, they typically live lives that have

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Speaker 1: greater satisfaction. So I would say that is the overarching um,

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Speaker 1: if you that's the overarching work that I'm probably doing

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Speaker 1: with most of my clients and most of the people

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Speaker 1: who have I've experienced being good therapists are helping people

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Speaker 1: put their thoughts and feelings into words. Because most people

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Speaker 1: have kind of like a Western education, they're good at thinking,

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Speaker 1: and so really we're airing more on putting your feelings

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Speaker 1: into words because that's where often people are deficient. And

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Speaker 1: so that that's probably the biggest thing that I would

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Speaker 1: say I'm doing with all of my clients. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then the other thing is just like I think there's

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Speaker 1: just something to have a place where you know what

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Speaker 1: you're said, what is said is confidential, and that there's

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Speaker 1: someone that like holds you with positive regard, like really

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Speaker 1: just cares for you. Holy um. And I think that

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Speaker 1: those two things, like the work and then finding someone

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Speaker 1: that just like cares for you and about you, I

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Speaker 1: think that is kind of the Petri Dish of human growth.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting. So, like, you know, people might come to

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Speaker 1: therapy thinking I want to work on my communication skills,

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Speaker 1: I want to work on my relationship, like I want

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Speaker 1: to heal from trauma, what I want to deal with

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Speaker 1: my anxiety. But all of those things you're kind of

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Speaker 1: addressing by saying, I'm going to like we can help

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Speaker 1: you know what you're feeling. We can help you articulate

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Speaker 1: what you're feeling, so other people around you will know.

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Speaker 1: Do um and you're also the inner personal of you

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Speaker 1: to me or me to you in the therapy room

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Speaker 1: is like we're also we're practicing being in relationship with

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Speaker 1: other people and having like safe friendship and relationship ship.

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Speaker 1: It's like you think you're going to like fix my marriage,

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Speaker 1: but really I'm going to like learn how to talk

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Speaker 1: about my heart, learn how to learn who I like.

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Speaker 1: For me, a lot of that work early was like

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Speaker 1: learn what I even think about something? How do I

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Speaker 1: feel about something? Like who am I in this? Um?

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Speaker 1: What kind of okay? I feel like? There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of like names. It's like counselor therapists, and there are psychiatrists,

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Speaker 1: there's psychologists, like there are people that like prescribed Like

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Speaker 1: what can you like tell us what those roles are? Sure? Um, yes,

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Speaker 1: So if we start at the top with psychiatrists, that's

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Speaker 1: going to be the person who went to medical school,

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Speaker 1: and so psychiatrist is your most kind of like formally

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Speaker 1: trained person typically doctor, and they are going to be

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Speaker 1: able to prescribe you medication. So that's kind of the

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Speaker 1: top of the food chain. Um. And then what you're

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Speaker 1: looking at is the amount of education or the um Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the amount of education basically, so everyone then that's not

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Speaker 1: a psychiatrist is going to be some version of a therapist.

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Speaker 1: And there are some psychiatrists who also do therapy, not

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Speaker 1: just medication or scripts. But if you just put the

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Speaker 1: that aside, psychiatrist equal scripts, then you have psychologists, which

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Speaker 1: is a doctor kind of level training to do psychotherapy,

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Speaker 1: and then you have a LPC or l m f

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Speaker 1: T or l s W and those are different types

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Speaker 1: of graduate level training that allows you to be a therapist.

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Speaker 1: And what are you. I'm an LPC, I'm a licensed

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Speaker 1: professional counselor licensed professional counselor. Okay, so that's like kind

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Speaker 1: of nitty gritty, but I think it's helpful because, like

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Speaker 1: I feel like, coming out of the Christian world, people

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Speaker 1: didn't want to say therapist, but they would say like

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Speaker 1: counselor are that those names are like synonymous, They're just

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Speaker 1: they're really the same thing. Um, Okay. I think one

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Speaker 1: thing that happens a lot in our marriage because people

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Speaker 1: know you're a therapist is we get a lot of

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Speaker 1: requests for referrals, like friends of ours or my friends

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Speaker 1: will be like, can Jeff recommend a therapist for me?

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Speaker 1: And I was kind of thinking, like you always frame

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Speaker 1: it a certain way. You ask me to go back

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Speaker 1: to them and ask what they're looking for in certain categories.

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Speaker 1: If somebody's like, you know, maybe had a bad experience

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Speaker 1: with therapy and that ended, or they're looking for their

381
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Speaker 1: starting for the first time, what questions should they ask

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Speaker 1: themselves in order to like find a good fit. Yeah,

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00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 1: that's a good question. The if you think about again

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Speaker 1: going back to like literature and research, like what produces

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Speaker 1: the most positive outcomes in therapy? I don't know, Yeah,

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00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: they would say, Um, it's actually early on in therapy

387
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Speaker 1: when you're meeting with someone, it's kind of just this

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Speaker 1: basic do you like the person and do you think

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Speaker 1: that person can help you with your problem? And so

390
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 1: I think that oftentimes is the basic thing of what

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Speaker 1: are you looking for? I'm looking for someone that I've

392
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Speaker 1: got to want to spend time and money with in

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Speaker 1: someone who I think can help me, and that across

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Speaker 1: all the different things people do in therapy intervention wise,

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Speaker 1: most research just boils down to like, if the person

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Speaker 1: who's the client likes the therapist and has like a

397
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: positive kind of transference towards them, that actually is what

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Speaker 1: produces the best results in therapy. Okay. On top of that,

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Speaker 1: do you I feel like you usually want to know

400
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Speaker 1: if it's a do they want to see a man

401
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 1: or a woman? Um? Do they kind of have a

402
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: general thing that they know they want to work on?

403
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Speaker 1: Is kind of an original what they call presenting issue.

404
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 1: So I typically ask those things because somebody who's new

405
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: or somebody who's starting therapy is most likely going to

406
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Speaker 1: have a better experience. If they know they want to

407
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: work with a man, let's refer them to a man.

408
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Speaker 1: If they know they want to work with a woman,

409
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Speaker 1: and let's referm to a woman. And if they have

410
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Speaker 1: like a really specific thing like I want to work

411
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: on something traumatic, or I have anxiety, or I want

412
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Speaker 1: to do marital counseling, let's send them to someone who

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Speaker 1: specializes in that and will take care of them. Yeah, okay,

414
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Speaker 1: this I'm gonna I think, please correct me because you're

415
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Speaker 1: the actual expert and I'm just married to an expert. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the thing that's kind of interesting too about that

417
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Speaker 1: gender question is it's not just like, oh, I'm a woman,

418
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Speaker 1: I'm going to feel more comfortable with a woman, Like

419
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: there actually is really cool stuff that can happen, like

420
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Speaker 1: certain wounds or certain relationships that like can there can

421
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Speaker 1: be a source of healing sometimes between like a female

422
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Speaker 1: client and a male counselor. Like we worked, you know,

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Speaker 1: with my first counselor. We worked a lot on what

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Speaker 1: what was kind of some stuff from like my childhood

425
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Speaker 1: with my dad, and he was able to sort of

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Speaker 1: be this like figure that helped me heal because he

427
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: wasn't me. It's like there are I think there are

428
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 1: some really cool things that can happen, Like you might

429
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: a certain gender might be the right fit during a

430
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: certain season of your life, and you know, and that

431
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 1: might change too. Um. I would say, ultimately, you probably

432
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: want to do therapy with the parental figure that was

433
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: most problematic in your development. Okay, did y'all get that?

434
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: Let's say that, say that one more time. You want

435
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: to do therapy with at some point, at some point

436
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: with the parental figure that was the most problematic in

437
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: your childhood development. So if my most problematic parental figure

438
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: was my dad, I would want to do therapy with

439
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: a man that could help heal that. Which is what

440
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: you were what we were talking about, which is that's

441
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: really interesting. Um. That makes me think, well, you haven't

442
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: really have you done very much therapy? It is actually

443
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: I have not done a lot of therapy with a woman.

444
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: I think you know, as as gender has evolved over time,

445
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: you can there is more there is more flexibility there too.

446
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: But so you know, that's not a hard and fast rule,

447
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: but probably at some point I do need to find

448
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: a female there, I'll put it on our duty list. Okay,

449
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: um okay, cur I was gonna just like this stuff

450
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: people are usually curious about, like like it costs money, right,

451
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: it costs money in Nashville. What's arrange that, like therapists,

452
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: good therapists cost in Nashville. I would say, you're probably

453
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: right now in the market for a fifty minute counseling

454
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: session to probably pay somewhere between a hundred Okay, And

455
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: one thing that you're really good about and that I'm

456
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: not good about is you're really comfortable talking about money.

457
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,479
Speaker 1: But like, can you just like defuse the bomb for people?

458
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: Like therapists expect you to talk about the price of

459
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: a therapy with you, like there, it's on the table,

460
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: it's permission granted. If it's too expensive, they expect you

461
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: to talk to them about it. And then you know,

462
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: it's like I like that that there's this thing in

463
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: therapy where it's like anything that you need to talk

464
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: about with your therapist could be therapeutic. Like do you

465
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: remember when you confronted our counselor first starting late? Like

466
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: this therapist was like starting late consistently, like five or

467
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: six minutes late. And Jeff who is like he's thinking

468
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: about what every minute actually cost him, and he was like, hey, man,

469
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: like it really makes me angry or whatever. You know,

470
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: when we start late, I feel like you're taking money

471
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: from me from what I've set aside to do therapy

472
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: with you. So I would encourage you, just in my

473
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: experience knowing a lot of therapists being married to you,

474
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: Like everything is on the table, and like you can

475
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: ask questions about the money part, and some people offer

476
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: a sliding scale, like maybe you're going through a hard

477
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: time and you say to your counselor I can't pay

478
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: a word right now, but maybe I could pay seventy

479
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: five for the next six, Like you can talk they

480
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: maybe can't do that, but like all of that is

481
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: kind of on the table, which is so where there

482
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: aren't that many relationships where we have literally any everything

483
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: is on the table to talk about. Yeah, I would,

484
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. I think, Yeah, the two

485
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: things you might mention in there, A lot of people

486
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: have insurance and they hope that their insurance will pay

487
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: for their therapy. Um. I think the sad reality is

488
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: because insurance reimbursement rates are not that great. Most of

489
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: the people who are pretty good leave the insurance realm

490
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: and just go to like a private pay, private practice

491
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: type setting, so that sometimes it's difficult. Um. But and

492
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: then the other thing is just if you're going to

493
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: talk to someone about money, it is better when it's

494
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: part of the therapy. Sometimes people reach out and it's

495
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: more like they're trying to negotiate before it starts, more

496
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: like buying a car. That typically, at least for me,

497
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: I'm not that engaged or interested in doing that. But

498
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: but you're happy to talk in the room. Yeah, once

499
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: the session kind of starts and people can like do

500
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: it relationally, I think that's the more compelling way. Um,

501
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: just because again you're doing work with someone around their

502
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings about money, which almost everyone has. Everyone

503
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: has thoughts and feelings about money. Okay, are things really confidential?

504
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: I feel like people are always like wondering, like if

505
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: they're there, this is actually talk to me about the trust,

506
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: talk to me about what are the exceptions? Like, are

507
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: things really confidential? Yeah? I mean every therapist I know. Um,

508
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: I mean there's some limited exceptions of people who I

509
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: know that kind of don't keep it, but that's such

510
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: a small minority. I think most people are pretty committed

511
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: to keeping someone's client information confidential. I was talking to

512
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: you about this a little bit last night, Like you know,

513
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: like when I think about like what makes someone a

514
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: good there piste, they're doing their own therapy and they're

515
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: typically going to be in some type of a working

516
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: group where they consult about cases. And so this gets

517
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: more on the therapy side than probably the client side.

518
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: But the reality is is like most of the things

519
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: that stick or are hard for a therapist to a

520
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: client have to do less with the client and more

521
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: with the therapist or there's this like strange mix of that.

522
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: And so you want your therapist to be able to

523
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: leave a session and then go with his colleagues and

524
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: in his own therapy to be talking about the things

525
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: that are happening for them, because that's how therapists get

526
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: better at doing therapy. So and inside that that is

527
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: still very much confidential, and you're not like, yeah, you're

528
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: doing people who are confidential, and then you're limiting like

529
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: what you're talking about so that it is not person specific.

530
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: So you're going more to like what the issues are,

531
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: not Hey, I have this client with brown hair, blue

532
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: eyes that works for Apple and you know lives at

533
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: three and so you're you're protecting that person's confidentiality, um

534
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: so that no one would identify them, but you're talking

535
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: about the things that show up in the room that

536
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: are giving you problems as a therapist, which for me,

537
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: as I've done it more and more, most of the

538
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: time when I'm consulting with someone, I have no idea

539
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: who their client is because they're they're pretty good at

540
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: talking about what's happening while protecting really the confidentiality of

541
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: the client. Yeah, what do you think about situations where

542
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: like a whole friend group kind of like decides a

543
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: certain therapist is really great and start I feel like

544
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: I've seen that happen a couple of times, and it's like,

545
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: do you like I would say that's bad. Like when

546
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: I think about if I'm a therapist and suddenly I'm

547
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: doing therapy with three or four different people in the

548
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: same friend group, I think the challenges that suddenly, like

549
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: friend one is in a session talking about friend three,

550
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: and so then it becomes really hard because you're giving

551
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: the same person information and they're trying to do therapy

552
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: with all the same people. So for myself as a therapist.

553
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: I'm not going to try to have a bunch of

554
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: people in the same friend group be my clients. In

555
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,239
Speaker 1: the instances where I have had people that kind of

556
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: have a little bit of overlap, I have to talk

557
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: with my clients about that so that they kind of know.

558
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: Like the ideal thing for me is I get to

559
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: create like my own world that revolves around my client

560
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: based on what they're saying. And so it's hard when

561
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: suddenly that world is being in vague colored by other

562
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: people's and versions to him. Can you do it? Yes? Do?

563
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: I think it's good. It's not good for I don't

564
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: like the therapy. It's hard for me imagine how that's

565
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: the best therapy for the client. But people do do it. Okay,

566
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: let's pivot because you do Okay, you do a lot

567
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: of individual work, you do a lot of you do

568
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: some marital work like couples. But your primary, and we

569
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: sort of said this earlier, is group therapy, which is

570
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: kind of an unusual specialty, especially here in Nashville. It's

571
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: kind of bigger in New York City and places like that.

572
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: I if you were like giving me the elevator pitch

573
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: on what is awesome about group therapy, what would it be? Yeah,

574
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: I probably should get better at this, but for me,

575
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: I really do think the um well, the group ultimately

576
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: becomes a recreation of the family unit. And so if

577
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: you think about individual or even often couples therapy, what

578
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: people are doing is coming in with a problem and

579
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: kind of telling you about the problem by putting it

580
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: up on a I kind of sometimes say it's like

581
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: projector therapy, like we have to kind of hope that

582
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: the client is an accurate projector. So they're projecting what

583
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: happened in their life up on the wall. We're looking

584
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: at it together to try and understand and what the

585
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: feelings are, what's happening, what their thoughts are, and what

586
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: they would have how they would have liked to do

587
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: it differently. Which is a good way to do therapy.

588
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: But then when you think about group therapy, oftentimes you

589
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: no longer have to use the projector because the things

590
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: that people are talking about that are not working for

591
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: them begin to not work for them in the relationships

592
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: in the group. Can you give me an example, UM, sure,

593
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: I mean there's all kinds. It's there is no like

594
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: I'm doing a I'm recreating a pattern of is that

595
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: I have in my personal life, and instead of telling

596
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: you about it, it's actually happening in real time with

597
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: my group members. And oftentimes when you're telling someone about it,

598
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: you're not able to tell them about it accurately. But

599
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: when it starts to show up in the group, you

600
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: have somewhere between six to eight other people who are

601
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: watching you do it. And so once you've told a

602
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: couple of stories, group members or the therapist might say,

603
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: does this seem like that thing that you're talking about

604
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: all the time, And so then it's no longer do

605
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: we have to trust you to project it up on

606
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: the wall. We're seeing you do it, and so it

607
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: like tastes and smells and looks and sounds differently. And

608
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: that typically is when people are doing some of their

609
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: best work because people are talking about what it's like

610
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: to be with you in this thing that is probably

611
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: hindering you in relationship with other people. Okay, is there

612
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: anything else that's kind of a group benefit? Um? Cost? Maybe? Yeah, cost?

613
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: I do think there is, uh the recreation of the

614
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: family unit. I think there's the vicarious nature of group

615
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: like UM. When you think about individual therapy, it's like

616
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: you are the center and you have to bring the content,

617
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: whereas like when you're in a group, other people will

618
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: be bringing content and that will both help you process

619
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: things but will typically wake up things for you in

620
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: your own life and story that are helpful for your

621
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: own there be. That's cool, that's interesting. Um, you are

622
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: probably not like the archetype of what most people think

623
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 1: of when they're like, oh, I'm going to go see

624
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: a counselor could you talk about why or what? Like

625
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 1: maybe what you where you have found like your place

626
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: in this space. Yeah, well, I guess I'm assuming people

627
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: on here know what the indiogram is, and so the

628
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: typical uh counselor is you probably think of it is

629
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: going to probably be a woman in an indiogram too,

630
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: and tell me what that is. It's like the helper,

631
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: somebody that's very like kind, caring. It's like great listen

632
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: and listener, Like, um, you'd want to sit with them

633
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: for hours because they can just listen to all your

634
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: problems and make you feel better. I'm more the like

635
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: male confrontational direct I mean you're calling out your clients

636
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: or know what do? What does that mean? Really? I

637
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: don't think I'm calling out my clients sometimes maybe after

638
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: we've established some rapport and relationship, I would just say, like,

639
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: I'm more concise, I'm going to be more uh efficient

640
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: with my words, and like people often complain, like I

641
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: start the session and they start, I just look at

642
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: them and to wait until they start talking. And people

643
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: often complain like this is weird, like this is intense.

644
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: You know. It's like yeah, but yeah, like I hope

645
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: most of my clients, they're they're paying a lot of

646
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: money to come. It's a it's a time element, and

647
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: so I want them to get the most of it.

648
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: And people get the most of it when they have

649
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: to think, this is what I want to bring to

650
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: this session and work on relationally, either outside the room

651
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: or inside the room with me. I mean, you started,

652
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, a couple of years ago, saying

653
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: out loud, which kind of surprised me, Like you would

654
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: say you specialize in narcissistic males? Is that? Is that

655
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: so still mind? You're sweet spot? Yeah. I mean I

656
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: would say a lot of times when someone is referring

657
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: a client to me, especially a therapist, and back of

658
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 1: my head, I'm always wondering, like, um, huh, I wonder

659
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: if someone in this referral network thinks that this person

660
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: is narcissistic. And yeah, I think your friends refers you

661
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: to Jeff. They might be telling me that you're a

662
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: little bit narcissistic. Friends, not as much, just really in

663
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: the therapy community. But yeah, I would say, like the

664
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: things that I do probably the best work with that.

665
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: Probably other counselors don't. I work a lot with personality disorders,

666
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: so that be functional. I call it functional because personality

667
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: disorders are on a spectrum. You know, it's not don't

668
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: think of it as binary. You're not either narcissistic or

669
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: not narcissistic. It's like we're both a little narcissistic. For example,

670
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: arcissistic traits one of us more than others. And uh,

671
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: and then so then and so then I'm typically I

672
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: want to work with the people who are like functional

673
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: in their personality disorders, so like functional narcissism, functional borderline.

674
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: And then oftentimes what's borderline? Uh, it's you know, like

675
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 1: to keep it simple, it's going to be more uh,

676
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 1: the male the female equivalent of kind of the more

677
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: like traditionally um the D S M kind of let

678
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: the men be narcissistic, which is kind of like grandiose

679
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: sense of self um. And then the female kind of

680
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: got diagnosed more with borderline, which is this idea of

681
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: like I love you, I love you now I hate

682
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: you um and so uh and so that's kind of

683
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: I work with a lot of the personality disorders when

684
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 1: they show up in couples, and so I work with

685
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: kind of specialized in working with that. So that's a

686
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: lot of what I specialize in. It's not all that

687
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: I work with. But yeah, yeah, those people don't advertise

688
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: that that's their special Um. If you were to cast

689
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: like a hope for people, like as a person who

690
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: has chosen this is your profession, like what is your

691
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: hope for people listening that maybe are curious or want

692
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: to get help, or like what cast division for them? Yeah,

693
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: it does go back. Like we were talking about our

694
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: journey with therapy, and when we were first going to therapy,

695
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: there weren't a lot of therapists and it was like

696
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 1: a little taboo. Yeah, it was like, man, you gotta

697
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: have some real problems. You might do you guys just

698
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: have a really broken marriage if you're going therapy. And

699
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: so I kinda and that's been in now, like that

700
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: was fifteen years ago, and the shift has been pretty

701
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: dramatic when I think about you know, I kind of

702
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: joke that now if you're a um, you know, like

703
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: a Belmont sophomore junior, or you're like especially a college female,

704
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: oftentimes they talk about who is your therapists and so

705
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, it swung a lot to where, um, some

706
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: people use therapy when things are really ad Um. I

707
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 1: kind of just say, like, if you have the resources,

708
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: you can use therapy just as a way to like

709
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 1: invest in yourself. And I think that's what has become

710
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: really now more for me and you. Right, Well, you

711
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,919
Speaker 1: could go because either is a real serious mental health

712
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: health crisis, or you could go because it's part of

713
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: how your personal development and how you want to grow

714
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: as a person. Yeah, so that would be my and

715
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: you can do either. I think the stigma is significantly

716
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: less now because of either of those things. And so um, yeah,

717
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: And we didn't get to really talk about this. It

718
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: was like the first question you asked me. But if

719
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: we go back to like what are the reasons people

720
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: come to therapy, it goes to me most people start

721
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: therapy with probably similar to the reason I started therapy,

722
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: like I have a problem. I want my problem fixed.

723
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: Something isn't working in my life and it's become unmanageable

724
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: or is Yeah, And so those typically you're going to

725
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: hear kind of like four main complaints when someone starting

726
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: therapy anxiety, depression, communication in a relationship, communication patterns, or

727
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: some type of trauma. And so that typically people are

728
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: coming with some type of presenting issue that revolves around

729
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: some version of one of those four things, and it's like,

730
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: help me, help me, because I want this to be

731
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: different in my life. And so when I think about that,

732
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: we're gonna I'm gonna call that kind of solution focused

733
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: therapy and help me problem solved, help me figure out fix. Yeah.

734
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 1: And I've actually I found that I'm typically pretty good

735
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: at helping people do solution focus therapy. So like when

736
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: I when someone comes to see me, um, you think

737
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: about the first session, I kind of say, like the

738
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: first session, first session or two is really about this,

739
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: like do you like me? Do you think I can

740
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: help you? Once people kind of think that that is true,

741
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: I asked them to make a ten week commitment ten

742
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: to fifteen weeks where they come weekly. Yeah, you have

743
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: a lot of boundaries. That has a lot of boundaries

744
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: around like how he does therapy with people, because you

745
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: believe that's like the most effective way. And so in

746
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 1: that weekly ten to fifteen week goal, most people with me,

747
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: I like to think we're able to help them begin

748
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 1: to shift what's happening in their solution solution focused dilemma.

749
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,479
Speaker 1: And so then typically around that ten to fifteen week

750
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 1: time frame, the question becomes, did you get what you wanted?

751
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: Are you ready to quit? Is that all you wanted?

752
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: Or do you want to shift to what I would

753
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: call the heart and soul of therapy, which is what

754
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: I would say is interpersonal therapy where suddenly it's less

755
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: about the problem that you're bringing into the room and

756
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: it's more about how you wholly relate to people. And

757
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 1: so as they begin to work on how they wholly

758
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: relate to people, including how they're relating to you begin

759
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: to work on things that not only change the problem,

760
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: but help them change a lot of things in their

761
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: life that are hopefully gonna, you know, create greater life satisfaction.

762
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about that, I'm nodding, I'm like, I'm smiling,

763
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's awesome. Actually, it's really fun. It's fun

764
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: terrible when it doesn't. When it works, it works. And

765
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: so how does someone if someone like, how does someone

766
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: get the most therapy? And that when we go back

767
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 1: to like what we're talking about is like finding this

768
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: person that you feel like like that you like, you

769
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: think can help and cares about you, and then you

770
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, like you ultimately want to find someone I have.

771
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: I think you want to find someone that, like, at

772
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: the end of the day, you want to be kind

773
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 1: of light, that has characteristics that you would say like,

774
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: I see this characteristic in this person, and I want

775
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: that characteristic of myself. Um, I think that's a pretty

776
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: good thing. And then if you can figure it out,

777
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: you want to find someone that is working on themselves.

778
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: Someone who is working on themselves and doing their own

779
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: work is going to be significantly more effective as a

780
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,479
Speaker 1: therapist than someone who is not. So I would ask

781
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: about that. I'm trying to think, is there anything else

782
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: that you want to share about what you do before?

783
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I know we kind of did like a

784
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: primmer in some ways about like what is it like

785
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: to do therapy and what you know? What can people

786
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: expect and how do they find someone? But like, is

787
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: there anything you want to share just from your from

788
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: the from the therapy couch. I don't know what else

789
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: I would I'm not even sure exactly what I'm I'm

790
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: just talking to you right now, I'm the living room.

791
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 1: I think next you're going to talk to Brenna Um,

792
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: so very different personality than mine. Um, what else would

793
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: I want to share about therapy or about the profession? Yeah,

794
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I mean we have we

795
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: have stories where I think in our developmental experiences we

796
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: were left with some deficiencies and so as we found

797
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: people who we could pay to be our therapists, I

798
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: think they really helped us backfill a lot of those

799
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: deficiencies and which made it much easier for me and

800
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: you to relate to one another and for us to

801
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: relate to other people. And so for us, we have

802
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: stories where therapy has really changed our lives, dramatically changed

803
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: our lives. And so, you know, does everyone need to

804
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: have a therapist? No, but I would say if you're

805
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: if you have the resources, it is sadly it is

806
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: a resource specific business. But if you have the money, um,

807
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: it's an amazing way to invest in yourself, using investment

808
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 1: to have someone that is on a journey with you

809
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: through life. And so I recommend it, I would say

810
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 1: to like, as I reflect on the different kind of

811
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: therapists that I've had too, it has like you know,

812
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: I ten years ago I did not have like a

813
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: core group of friends and now like my four or

814
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: five six female friends that are like my whole world,

815
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: that are my you know, truly truly rider dize, I'm like, oh,

816
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: I bet like I had to learn how to do

817
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: relationship and I learned how to do that from our therapists.

818
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 1: And that is a huge just that is a huge change,

819
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: like someone and someone that and it is weird because

820
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 1: you are exchanging money, right, you don't normally exchange money

821
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: for a relationship, but like that persons their whole job

822
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: is to care for you in that room. And that's

823
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: something I had to learn to do is just take

824
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: that space up and not be feel like I would

825
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: feel a lot of shame about. It's like you walk

826
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: into that room and that fifty minutes or however long,

827
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: like yeah, it's it's just all about you and you're

828
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: healing your growth and having someone that just cares for

829
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: you deeply. I mean, I think that's the thing too.

830
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: It's like you care deeply for the people you work with.

831
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: It's not I mean, you probably have your favorites. I

832
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: think I have to think. I'm that's something we talk

833
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: about in the room, and you do. A good response

834
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: that I often say to people is people pay me

835
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,959
Speaker 1: for my time. They don't pay me for my care.

836
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: And so it's um, they pay you for your time,

837
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: but they don't. But you you're care my own people

838
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: I care about and people I don't care about. And

839
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: so people who I care about that's more the human

840
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: part of interpersonal care about them. Yeah, And people who

841
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: I typically don't care about, they don't day with me.

842
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: And there so there is this natural hope. There's not chemistry. Yeah,

843
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: they I hope they go find someone that's more of

844
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: a fit for them or where that does get developed.

845
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: But there is this very natural function of people are

846
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: paying me for my time. No one is going to

847
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: pay me to care about them. That's not yeah, but

848
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: that and the freedom in that for people is like, yeah,

849
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: your your person. If you're in a therapeutic relationship, your

850
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: counselor does care for you, and it's there and and

851
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: that's their job. And it's a pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing, Gig,

852
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: would you go back to the car business? No? Probably not. Um, well, Jeff,

853
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 1: thank you so much. UM. I am going to cast

854
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,439
Speaker 1: vision for the people that are listening to the sound

855
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: of my voice right now. We are holding up Kelly Henderson,

856
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: who is you know, this is her podcast, This is

857
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: her one of her babies, and she has wisely listened

858
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 1: to her her it, listened to her heart and taking

859
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: time off because she was running on fumes. And we

860
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: all have to take those moments in our life see them.

861
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: They're scary, they're scary, but when you can see them,

862
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: know what they are here their call and and then

863
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: like take care of yourself in it. So I just

864
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 1: want to say, like, it is so awesome. I think

865
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: Kelly is actually leaving this whole tribe by setting a

866
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: great example of caretaking herself, for stopping, for getting quiet.

867
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: Um and my vision, my hope for the people that

868
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: are listening to us today is maybe there is one

869
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: thing that you can take away into your personal life

870
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,280
Speaker 1: that you could be curious about, maybe your own journey

871
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: for therapy. Maybe that is a resource that you could

872
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: use to make your life better and healthier. And um,

873
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: we're just really really glad that you joined us. I've

874
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: interviewed a lot of people. I've never interviewed my husband.

875
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: You're my first therapy interviewed. Jeff, would you give me

876
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: a ranked me out of ten? How did we do?

877
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: Very good? I am thanks all right, y'all. Um again,

878
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: my name is Kelly Bannon. I thank you so so

879
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: much for joining us today, and um, we will be

880
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: coming later in the week. Jeff kind of teased it. Um,

881
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: the this was, of course the Velvet side of Velvet's Edge,

882
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: and later this week the Edge side of the Velvet

883
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: Edge podcast will be me riffing with my truly my bff,

884
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 1: Brenna Perkins, who is one of the sunniest, brightest personalities

885
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: I know. And boy does this girl love books about therapy.

886
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: So we're literally talking. We're just gonna be dishing on

887
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 1: some of the books that have been really popular kind

888
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 1: of in pop culture in the last couple of years

889
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: that deal either their fiction and deal with therapy as

890
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: a concept or they are um nonfiction or memoirs about

891
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: the therapy world. And so it's gonna it's gonna be

892
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: a while one if I know, if I know, Brenna,

893
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: it's gonna be this will be the This is the

894
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 1: Chill pod asked, that's going to be the Wild the

895
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: Wild podcast. UM. And if you all want to keep

896
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: up with me, UM, I would be so honored. You

897
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: can follow me at Kelly Bannon on Twitter. If you

898
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: want to know more about Jeff and his counseling practice. UM.

899
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: His practice is called Jeff Grossman Counseling. You can find

900
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 1: it on the internet. UM. And if you want to

901
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: join me for any of my shows on Apple Radio, UM,

902
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: I would absolutely love that. I have a daily show

903
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 1: called The Kelly Bannon Show, which airs at one pm

904
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: Central every day, and then on Friday's that show becomes

905
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 1: kind of a headline country, UM conversation and it's called

906
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: Today's Country. And I would be so honored if you

907
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 1: would join us there. Thank you so much, y'all, it

908
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: was so good to be with you. Thank you, Jeff.

909
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: We'll say bye, good bye bye. Thanks for listening to

910
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 1: The Velvet's Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson, where we believe

911
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: everyone has a little velvet and a little edge. Subscribe

912
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: for more conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships search

913
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: Velvet's Edge. Wherever you get your podcasts h m hm