1
00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,320
Speaker 1: Hi. I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

2
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,160
Speaker 2: We wanted to do something that highlighted our.

3
00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are

4
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:25,800
Speaker 1: a sibling Railvalry, No, no, sibling, Rail, don't do that

5
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:42,839
Speaker 1: with your mouth revely, that's good. I have been and

6
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,720
Speaker 1: I've said this before, but like I guess officially diagnosed

7
00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:47,879
Speaker 1: with ADD or ADHD or whatever the fuck it is,

8
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,040
Speaker 1: whatever whichever letter you want to put in there. I

9
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,239
Speaker 1: don't know. I had a brain scan by this guy,

10
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,840
Speaker 1: doctor Amon. He was on our podcast. We were on

11
00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,200
Speaker 1: his podcast. Was incredible to sort of look at your

12
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 1: brain and really in apped and see how it's functioning,

13
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 1: see what kind of physical trauma has happened to it

14
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,600
Speaker 1: through concussions or even head or even head bangs or whatever,

15
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,400
Speaker 1: and then you know, getting into sort of the ADHD

16
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,479
Speaker 1: and you can see it anyway. Point is they gave

17
00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:20,680
Speaker 1: me these patches and essentially it's amphetamine. And I tried one,

18
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,320
Speaker 1: you know, I've been doing one. I'm like, I think

19
00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 1: I feel okay, you know, I think I I think

20
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,160
Speaker 1: I feel like more awake, I guess, but it's not

21
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 1: like all of a sudden I'm sitting down on my

22
00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,959
Speaker 1: computer and writing scripts and conquering the world. And then

23
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,320
Speaker 1: I tried two of them. They gave me a low dose,

24
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 1: like a four and a half milligram. Then I tried

25
00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,640
Speaker 1: another one. So I was nine and I did that

26
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 1: a couple of days ago, and it was like it

27
00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,319
Speaker 1: was nutty. It was nutty because I'm not used to

28
00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,320
Speaker 1: that shit. I'm not a speed guy, you know, like

29
00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,880
Speaker 1: that an fhetamine and think like hey, And I couldn't

30
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,880
Speaker 1: decide whether I was gonna, you know, save the world

31
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,120
Speaker 1: or just sort of ball up and get into my

32
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,080
Speaker 1: bed and cry. I chose to save the world, but

33
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,400
Speaker 1: I want to another. I went. I doubled it up today.

34
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,960
Speaker 1: I doubled it up today just for this and let's

35
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,000
Speaker 1: see what happens. Let's see what happens. I can't even

36
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,520
Speaker 1: pronounce the name of it of what's on what kind

37
00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 1: of weird patch I have on? But uh yeah, I'm

38
00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,680
Speaker 1: on fire, baby, I'm on fire. So let's bring in

39
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 1: to talk about my ADHD patches. Atlise Myers going in,

40
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,200
Speaker 1: How are you good? Are you? I'm good? I was

41
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:41,919
Speaker 1: just doing, you know, I do a little intro before

42
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:47,639
Speaker 1: the show and I was just talking about how I

43
00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:52,840
Speaker 1: did this brain scan with this guy doctor Amen, and

44
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,399
Speaker 1: it was really incredible, and it was like a three

45
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 1: day thing. They put an IV in you, which he

46
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 1: radioactive material, so great, apparently you know, I'm viren Man.

47
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,600
Speaker 1: And then they put you in the scan. Well actually

48
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 1: they put the IV in and then they give you

49
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,800
Speaker 1: They take you through a on a computer screen. You

50
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,200
Speaker 1: have to do all of these sort of quizzes and

51
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,960
Speaker 1: tests and it's sort of activating and stimulating your brain.

52
00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 1: And then they put you in the in the in

53
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 1: the in the scan and then the next day you

54
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,600
Speaker 1: come back and you just relax. They put the radioactive

55
00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,160
Speaker 1: material into your IV and then you kind of just relax.

56
00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,200
Speaker 1: So there's a real mapping of how your brain is

57
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:40,000
Speaker 1: functioning given activity and given downtime. Wow, it's pretty an

58
00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 1: intensive process. All this to say that, you know, I've

59
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,200
Speaker 1: known it. But he's like, oh, you have ADD or

60
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,080
Speaker 1: ADHD or whatever one it is, right.

61
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,640
Speaker 2: How does it feel to hear someone say that versus

62
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 2: just having a suspicion.

63
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,000
Speaker 1: It didn't matter to me sure personally, you know, because

64
00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't There's so much to talk about because I've

65
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 1: I'm on twenty grams of twenty milligrams of lexapro. Like,

66
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,240
Speaker 1: I've been dealing with anxiety since I was in my

67
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 1: mid twenties when I had my first sort of gnarly

68
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:12,160
Speaker 1: panic attack, So it all sort of understandably probably goes

69
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,400
Speaker 1: hand in hand, But it was never something that I

70
00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,920
Speaker 1: needed to diagnosis for to make me feel better necessarily,

71
00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 1: like accommodation or anything. Yeah, it was more of just

72
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,320
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I mean that makes sense. Yeah, you know,

73
00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,680
Speaker 1: because it's always felt like I can grind and I

74
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,840
Speaker 1: can get after it. But yeah, there's this part of

75
00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,120
Speaker 1: me that knows I have never reached my full potential

76
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,840
Speaker 1: because I felt like I was incapacitated somehow or I

77
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,280
Speaker 1: couldn't get through something.

78
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you feel like sometimes it's also helped you though,

79
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 2: to grind, like that hyperfixation and that need for stimulation

80
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:48,400
Speaker 2: and all that.

81
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,359
Speaker 1: Yeh See, it's funny because I don't think I have

82
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 1: that part. I got all the I got all the

83
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,360
Speaker 1: shit parts I didn't get there. Really, I'm just gonna

84
00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,360
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna sort of just lock in. There are

85
00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,520
Speaker 1: moments when I can, but it's not that like hyper

86
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: focus that I will see with people who have ADHD.

87
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,800
Speaker 1: Sure just lock in anyway. They put me on these

88
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,839
Speaker 1: patches and it's I forget what the fuck it's called,

89
00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,280
Speaker 1: but it's like an ADHD type of a patch. It's

90
00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,359
Speaker 1: only four and a half milligrams.

91
00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:20,280
Speaker 2: Of like a stimulant.

92
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,920
Speaker 1: It's a stimulant. Yeah, it's like it's fetter meane, it's

93
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 1: it's I think it's a derivative of all adderall. You know,

94
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:33,360
Speaker 1: it's like debt from morphine or some some fiend. And uh,

95
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,039
Speaker 1: you know I would feel good, but I think I

96
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,240
Speaker 1: feel awake or you know, nothing. That was overpowering and

97
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,360
Speaker 1: then life changing. I decided to double up.

98
00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,159
Speaker 2: And and is that where we're at today?

99
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I tried it today too,

100
00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,840
Speaker 1: but two days ago I tried it and it was

101
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:55,200
Speaker 1: definitely a trip. You know. It was really a little anxiety,

102
00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,120
Speaker 1: a little like holy shit, you know what I mean,

103
00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 1: Like can I conquer the world or do I need

104
00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,360
Speaker 1: to like crawl up into a ball here? You know.

105
00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,920
Speaker 1: It was this oscillating sort of feeling.

106
00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 2: That's it's so it's I have been medicated for my

107
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,440
Speaker 2: ADHD since I was sixteen, and it's so it's like

108
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 2: now it's such a part of my life that I

109
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,400
Speaker 2: I can't believe I ever went without being medicated. It's

110
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,400
Speaker 2: like it's it's an on and off switch, and it's

111
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,800
Speaker 2: like just makes my baseline. So it's so it's cool

112
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 2: to find things that work. And so I'm curious to

113
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,120
Speaker 2: know if the four milligrams is helpful for you or

114
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:29,479
Speaker 2: if it's eight or nothing.

115
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I have to figure that one out.

116
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,279
Speaker 1: I have to figure out if an amphetamine is something

117
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,919
Speaker 1: that I can vibe with or not. Now I also

118
00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,000
Speaker 1: think I need to create a task to almost as

119
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,280
Speaker 1: a as a trial period. Say, I'm not just going

120
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,960
Speaker 1: to put a patch on it and go through my day, right,

121
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to take this medication and sit down and

122
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,720
Speaker 1: write a script or I am going to clean the gate.

123
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 1: Yesize it exactly.

124
00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,839
Speaker 2: I love that. I like that. That's how your brain works.

125
00:06:58,839 --> 00:06:59,520
Speaker 2: It's really cool.

126
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean all of this to say, this is

127
00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,200
Speaker 1: very timely, and I'm happier here because you you know,

128
00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 1: this is what you do, this is what you are,

129
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,600
Speaker 1: this is why you are who you are, And so

130
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,800
Speaker 1: I'm curious to sort of even know, starting at the

131
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:18,480
Speaker 1: beginning of this, how did you discover that you sort

132
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 1: of felt this way? I read that you had your

133
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,200
Speaker 1: first panic attack at seven years old, and yeah, you know,

134
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:29,200
Speaker 1: so how did you come into this ADHD? Just in general?

135
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,800
Speaker 1: You know, I mean my first panic attack was at

136
00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 1: twenty five. You know, at seven, do you even know

137
00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:36,760
Speaker 1: what's happening to you? Thought? No.

138
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 2: The only way I knew what was happening to me

139
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,680
Speaker 2: was because I have much older brothers. So there are seven,

140
00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,080
Speaker 2: eight and ten years older than me, and all of

141
00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,480
Speaker 2: us have some flavor of anxiety or you know, neuro

142
00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,160
Speaker 2: not like neurodivergence in some way. And so what I

143
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,680
Speaker 2: was I was having what I kept saying, like I

144
00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 2: think I'm having a heart attack or a stroke or something,

145
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,120
Speaker 2: is what I had said. And I couldn't catch my breath,

146
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,080
Speaker 2: and I wanted to cry, but I couldn't cry. I

147
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 2: felt like I was like being suffocated by needing to cry.

148
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,400
Speaker 2: And my brother goes, just try coughing. Just all you

149
00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,520
Speaker 2: need to do, is like, because that was what he

150
00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:14,480
Speaker 2: helped him get a panic attack out, and it like

151
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,120
Speaker 2: kind of jolts your heart to start pumping normally. So

152
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,120
Speaker 2: I started coughing and it worked, and he goes, Yep,

153
00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,800
Speaker 2: you're having a panic attack. And I was like, what

154
00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,280
Speaker 2: is that, you know, and he walked me through it,

155
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,040
Speaker 2: and yeah, I think I just grew up in a

156
00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,000
Speaker 2: household where it was very I mean we all had

157
00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,080
Speaker 2: to go to therapy because of my parents' divorce very early.

158
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 2: So medical clinical help was around, and that terminology was

159
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,640
Speaker 2: around very early, earlier than I maybe even like should

160
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,720
Speaker 2: have been, just because I was kind of the outlier

161
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,200
Speaker 2: of like the ages of what was happening. So I

162
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,080
Speaker 2: was lumped into conversations that were just like a little older.

163
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,520
Speaker 2: But then it wasn't until so that was like the

164
00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 2: anxiety and the depression kind of part, and we weren't

165
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,840
Speaker 2: sure was it chemical? Is it like situational with the

166
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,720
Speaker 2: home situation. But then when I was sixteen, it was

167
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:11,600
Speaker 2: really fascinating. I was becoming like very obsessive over trying

168
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 2: to like study, and I was presenting essentially as like

169
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 2: someone with like ADHD, like very high high hyperactive like ADHD.

170
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,000
Speaker 2: And I was failing all my classes. And I had

171
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,840
Speaker 2: gotten treatment for like body image eating stuff at like

172
00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,960
Speaker 2: fifteen ish, and I was I was going through the

173
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 2: outpatient process of the therapy. One of the psychologists was like,

174
00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,040
Speaker 2: have you ever been assessed for ADHD? And I was like,

175
00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,280
Speaker 2: uh no, And he's like, it's so funny. Because not funny,

176
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,800
Speaker 2: but it's so interesting because I see so much overlap

177
00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,199
Speaker 2: in young girls that struggle with obsessive like food stuff

178
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,360
Speaker 2: and body stuff with neurodivergence, and there's actually so much

179
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,960
Speaker 2: more overlap than people understand. And he's like, a lot

180
00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,120
Speaker 2: of this I think would really resolve for you if

181
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,480
Speaker 2: you just got on a very small, small dose of

182
00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,480
Speaker 2: something that could just connect the wires in your brain

183
00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:09,160
Speaker 2: that aren't firing together that should be. And I got assessed,

184
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 2: I went on meds and it was like, for the

185
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,680
Speaker 2: very first time in my life, I was not being

186
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,480
Speaker 2: dragged behind my own mind. Like I was in the

187
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,120
Speaker 2: car in the driver's seat, and I controlled how fast

188
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 2: we were going or slow, the windows were up or down,

189
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 2: if the radio was on, who was in my car,

190
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,600
Speaker 2: And it was like, I think that this is how

191
00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,600
Speaker 2: people probably just feel all the time. And it was

192
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,960
Speaker 2: pretty powerful for me. And then I never really went back.

193
00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,320
Speaker 2: It was just it was like I felt like, Okay,

194
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,000
Speaker 2: now my life is starting, and it was really cool.

195
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 2: I think that for me that diagnosis was helpful because

196
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,480
Speaker 2: it allowed me to make changes in my life that

197
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 2: shifted and built my life in a way that served me,

198
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,120
Speaker 2: rather than me trying to fit my life in a

199
00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,000
Speaker 2: way that made sense to other people. So that's why

200
00:10:59,000 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 2: that was helpful to me.

201
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:05,120
Speaker 1: What did it feel like to you before those meds

202
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,800
Speaker 1: reconnected those wires? You know? Yeah, what was that feeling?

203
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:15,840
Speaker 2: It was like you know, when you overcaffeinate yourself and

204
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,839
Speaker 2: you're sitting there and you're like cold, sweating and you're

205
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,800
Speaker 2: talking to someone, you keep cutting yourself off. It would

206
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,480
Speaker 2: feel like everything was bottlenecking in me, like every thought

207
00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,560
Speaker 2: and feeling, and I think I tried to get out.

208
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,400
Speaker 2: It would make me so anxious. I would just be

209
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 2: like silent because I was trying to prioritize which thoughts

210
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,319
Speaker 2: were important to share and which weren't. And I had

211
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,520
Speaker 2: no filter. And I still don't like a lot of

212
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,520
Speaker 2: these things are just me as well, so I don't

213
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,600
Speaker 2: want to take those away. But it allowed me to

214
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,960
Speaker 2: decide and slow my brain down a little bit and

215
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,240
Speaker 2: decide which thoughts I was going to share and which

216
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,600
Speaker 2: strings I was going to pull out in conversation. It

217
00:11:55,640 --> 00:12:00,240
Speaker 2: wasn't like I was just frantically trying to like hold

218
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,040
Speaker 2: on to every single rope around me, you know, and

219
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:03,160
Speaker 2: hang on.

220
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,800
Speaker 1: Were you aware that you were feeling these things and

221
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,760
Speaker 1: it was not necessarily normal or was it normal for you?

222
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:18,079
Speaker 1: Or did you understand that something's off here? I have

223
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:18,920
Speaker 1: to figure this out.

224
00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 2: I for sure felt like something was off, not because

225
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,839
Speaker 2: I thought it was anything fixable. I just thought I

226
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,000
Speaker 2: was really stupid. Like I thought I was a bad student.

227
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 2: I thought I was selfish. I mean when that I

228
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,000
Speaker 2: couldn't I couldn't focus on someone, I'm like, am I

229
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,000
Speaker 2: just self absorbed? That? Like I can't pay attention to

230
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:37,680
Speaker 2: you and hear what you're saying long enough for me

231
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,880
Speaker 2: to get my own thoughts out of the way. Like

232
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:45,480
Speaker 2: I felt lazy because I couldn't focus on anything long enough.

233
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,360
Speaker 2: So I'm like, what if I just don't love it,

234
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,120
Speaker 2: I can't do it, which is just yeah, it's like

235
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,680
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of shame attached to that as well.

236
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,400
Speaker 2: And I wanted to be good and I wanted to

237
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,560
Speaker 2: be liked, and I wanted to be successful, and I

238
00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,080
Speaker 2: wanted people to be proud of me, and it felt

239
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,160
Speaker 2: like I just wasn't going to be a person that

240
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,440
Speaker 2: could do things and achieve things, and I didn't fit

241
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,920
Speaker 2: the way I wanted to. And though it wasn't a

242
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:12,520
Speaker 2: one to one output of like how hard I was

243
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,360
Speaker 2: working versus the results of what I was getting, and

244
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,080
Speaker 2: it just felt like I was kind of swimming upstream

245
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,000
Speaker 2: the whole time. But never once was I like something

246
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,680
Speaker 2: can be fixed in this. I just internalized that as

247
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,640
Speaker 2: this is I'm just bad all around. Like that's essentially

248
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 2: the main takeaway was I'm.

249
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,280
Speaker 1: Just bad, but just this is who I am.

250
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just I'm bad. I'm bad, student, bad, listener, everything.

251
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,640
Speaker 1: Did you have moments of clarity, those sort of you

252
00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,640
Speaker 1: know eddies in the in the in the stream where

253
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're like, holy shit, I'm in,

254
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm in, I'm in, I'm focusing on I fucking on

255
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,760
Speaker 1: it and then boom it goes away like unmedicated unmedicated.

256
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, So that's where that's where Like for me,

257
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,160
Speaker 2: so I'm also autistic, and there's a lot of overlap

258
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:07,640
Speaker 2: in those, which is cool because sometimes my my special

259
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 2: interests in my and like hyperfixations of of me and

260
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,440
Speaker 2: my autism would supersede my inability to focus, so I

261
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,360
Speaker 2: would get into these moments like so great example is

262
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,960
Speaker 2: I learned viola. I'm classically trained violist, and I started

263
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,480
Speaker 2: when I was really young, and I would lock myself

264
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:31,560
Speaker 2: in my room and play for ten hours, like I

265
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 2: would for I wouldn't drink water, I wouldn't eat. I

266
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:39,120
Speaker 2: like that obsessive hyperfixation when when people that are autistic

267
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,120
Speaker 2: have special interests like that is very a common pattern.

268
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,400
Speaker 2: And so I did have those bursts of like, okay,

269
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,920
Speaker 2: it's not, it's not it's not all the time me.

270
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,920
Speaker 2: But it almost made it harder because then when I

271
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 2: couldn't force myself to do that in other areas, I

272
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,360
Speaker 2: didn't understand why, so that when it was like oh so,

273
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,240
Speaker 2: and also to other people, they didn't understand why, like

274
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 2: why can you sit and play buela for ten hours

275
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 2: but all you need to do is sit and do

276
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 2: your mouth. I work for thirty minutes and you just

277
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,320
Speaker 2: keep getting up and you have to pee and you

278
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,800
Speaker 2: have you go water, and you're like maybe in a snack,

279
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 2: and it's like I just couldn't lock in. So it

280
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,440
Speaker 2: almost made it harder that I experienced those little bits

281
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 2: of goodness because then it's like, well it is really

282
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:23,760
Speaker 2: my fault.

283
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:35,960
Speaker 1: Then, yeah, how much of this do you think is

284
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,880
Speaker 1: sort of a circumstantial like you talked about before, and

285
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,280
Speaker 1: how much does genetics play into this?

286
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,840
Speaker 2: I mean that's probably a question for a doctor.

287
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,680
Speaker 1: I was wanting to say, is there science on that?

288
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,960
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, I mean I know my mother was

289
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,200
Speaker 1: dealing with anxiety. You know. My son Wilder is now eighteen.

290
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 1: When he was thirteen years old, he went through about

291
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,240
Speaker 1: where he just felt He kept saying to me, Dad,

292
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,760
Speaker 1: I don't feel real, which is like disassociation, you know,

293
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,840
Speaker 1: which I could completely relate to, because when I was

294
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 1: going through my shit, and you know, every now and again,

295
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,960
Speaker 1: it's like, uh, I'm not I don't think I'm on

296
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 1: this earth right now, like what the fun?

297
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 2: And it's and you can't really explain that to someone

298
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,960
Speaker 2: that's never experienced it, because you're not like having an

299
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 2: outer body experience. It's like you're you're it almost is

300
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 2: like this hopelessness. When I experience that, you feel like

301
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,440
Speaker 2: you're like this is the routine of every single day,

302
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,120
Speaker 2: and I don't feel like a real human being. I'm

303
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,080
Speaker 2: like I've checked out and I'm just it's happening to

304
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 2: me and through me, but I'm not here like that

305
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:36,680
Speaker 2: feeling is so crazy.

306
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 1: I don't know.

307
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,680
Speaker 2: Genetically, I mean definitely, there's science that links genetics with

308
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,560
Speaker 2: with mental health and neurodivergence, which is why when that's

309
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,880
Speaker 2: which is why I got diagnosed as autistic, or why

310
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:51,960
Speaker 2: I pursued a diagnosis even though I knew I was

311
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,760
Speaker 2: because when my sons go to be assessed one day,

312
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,880
Speaker 2: if they do, it's so much easier to get in,

313
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,000
Speaker 2: and the wait list is so like you long? Really, yes,

314
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 2: I had to personally wait eight months, and I'm in Nebraska,

315
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 2: where there's no waiting list for like anything, and I

316
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,160
Speaker 2: still had to wait eight months, and then the process

317
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 2: is like seven to eight months long because you have

318
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 2: to keep going back. It is such an intense process.

319
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 1: Why why is the waiting list so long? Is this

320
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:21,120
Speaker 1: bureaucracy shit?

321
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,240
Speaker 2: I think, well, for adults, it's because why does it matter?

322
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,240
Speaker 2: Why do you need to know? There's also no medication

323
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,600
Speaker 2: to like heal it or fix it? There's like some

324
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 2: there's some things you can take, but there's no like

325
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 2: here you're autistic, here's mids you know. But I think

326
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:44,320
Speaker 2: that also like the assessment process is so long and arduous,

327
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,119
Speaker 2: and it takes a very specifically trained a professional, and

328
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,280
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of them, because I think that

329
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 2: it's very recent that people have realized how prevalent neurodivergence is.

330
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,119
Speaker 2: I think it's very easy to diagnose a ten year

331
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,720
Speaker 2: old boy because they present very differferently than than women do.

332
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 2: And so I think we're just now starting to get

333
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 2: into a different season of the neurodivergent world where we're

334
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,199
Speaker 2: seeing it earlier and we're able to like get more

335
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 2: people trained to accommodate. I think it's really important that

336
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,880
Speaker 2: young people have access to that because my life would

337
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 2: have been drastically different if I would have just given

338
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 2: been given a little bit different of a setup, like

339
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,680
Speaker 2: anything I like being able to self teach, like being

340
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,280
Speaker 2: able to have a little control over my schedule, any

341
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,119
Speaker 2: any of it. I just wouldn't have felt like I

342
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,760
Speaker 2: was bad. That would have changed my self esteem my

343
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:41,240
Speaker 2: whole life.

344
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 1: Sure, and obviously information is so powerful as far as

345
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 1: the way that you think and feel about yourself and

346
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,200
Speaker 1: who you are. If there is a diagnosis where it's

347
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,440
Speaker 1: like oh shit, okay, this is who I am Yeah,

348
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 1: I'm OK. Now this is not I'm not just sort

349
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,320
Speaker 1: of floating in the ether right now, totally. I can

350
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:02,920
Speaker 1: get my feet on the ground with this.

351
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, how long have you been interested in pursuing this?

352
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 2: Like why did you go to that brain scan?

353
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm an actor, but like if I was not, I

354
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 1: would love to be in the world of psychology. I

355
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,440
Speaker 1: just love the human condition. It's so interesting to me

356
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 1: how we are all made up of the same stuff,

357
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 1: but we're so drastically you know, diverse, and how we

358
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 1: feel and how we think, and how we act and

359
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 1: how we respond to certain things, our sensitivities, you know,

360
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,160
Speaker 1: all of that. And I think that honestly stems from

361
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 1: my first bout with anxiety, which was in my mid twenties. Yeah,

362
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 1: and it came from wanting to be better and just

363
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 1: feel like myself again. And then once I had a

364
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 1: grip on that, then it just became more interested and

365
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 1: fascinated in sort of the world of it in the

366
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,920
Speaker 1: brain and why this is happening. But to get over

367
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 1: my first bout, I just wrote a ton in my

368
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,119
Speaker 1: journal and I was heavy meditating, and I go up

369
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 1: to my rock, you know, every day in sort of

370
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 1: wilderness and I would just get quiet and write and

371
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 1: then I got through it, but there was this residual

372
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 1: feeling of unease and that's when I went on Selexa,

373
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,959
Speaker 1: and that's when it sort of took everything away.

374
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,719
Speaker 2: Do you find that you being creative helps you when

375
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 2: you're in those seasons or do you feel like your

376
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 2: creativity is gone when you're in that season?

377
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: No, it helps when I'm pen to paper. For me

378
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 1: is always great. My expression personal like in person expression,

379
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,360
Speaker 1: vulnerability has always been tough for me. In person, I've

380
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 1: always been able to express myself through the written word.

381
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 1: It's much easier for me. I like to write. It

382
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 1: feels good to write.

383
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to take breaks from therapy because I

384
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: find like I'm over therapized sometimes because it makes me

385
00:20:54,920 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 2: very intellectual about what I'm doing. But like, understanding your

386
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 2: feelings is not the same thing as processing and feeling

387
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 2: them Like that is actually a complete like run away

388
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: from it because you're like, well, if I can figure

389
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 2: it out, then I'm good, and it's like no. Sometimes

390
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,959
Speaker 2: literally it is trapped in your body and you need

391
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 2: to get it out, like you have got to get

392
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 2: it out. It is poison and so learning how to

393
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: feel things. I'm in that process right now because I

394
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 2: can tell you every single thing of why I do it,

395
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 2: but like I will go numb before I actually feel

396
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: it and a stonewall. I'm not a yeller, I'm not.

397
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,440
Speaker 2: I will just like do meet like fool me once

398
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 2: you're dead to me, Like that's really where how I operate.

399
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 2: And so I'm learning how to not do that. But

400
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 2: it's really hard because it can feel like you have

401
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 2: to go through this purging process of like overfeeling things

402
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 2: to the point where you're like, Okay, one day this

403
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,160
Speaker 2: is going to stabilize. But right now everything is making

404
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 2: me feel too much and it's overwhelming, and I just

405
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: for stimulated.

406
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: Completely understand that because that over therapy thing. I haven't

407
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,719
Speaker 1: been in therapy in a little bit because of that too.

408
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,239
Speaker 1: It's like, let me just take a break from all

409
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, you know. And sometimes when I get

410
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 1: into a state of anxiety, which even can happen when

411
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 1: you're on meds, you know, it's not hard to deal with.

412
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: And I'm like a seasoned veteran, so if some check up,

413
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I know what it is. I got it.

414
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: I can like feel it in the air.

415
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,479
Speaker 1: Yes, I can feel it. And instead of being like, oh,

416
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: well it's this is this man, your brain starts to

417
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 1: tick off all of the past therapies and books you've

418
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: read and articles, and finally, like Oliver, shut up. Just exist,

419
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 1: just exist, Just exist and just roll with it. You're good.

420
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: Just and exist because they can you can ruminate on

421
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: all of the potential lessons and and all the remedies

422
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 1: that you have in your brain to have helped yourself

423
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: feel better instead of just saying just chill for a second.

424
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I think like it's it's it's really

425
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: transformed my brain chemistry literally to be married to somebody

426
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 2: who like actually loves me and when he says it,

427
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: he means it, and he loves all of it, like

428
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 2: all of the seasons that we can feel coming from

429
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 2: a mile away, like for me to be in that season,

430
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 2: I think that like my at least my experience, I

431
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 2: want to ruminate and fix it because I feel like

432
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 2: a problem to people, and I feel like I'm a

433
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 2: burden and I feel like people are watching me go

434
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 2: through this and it's like fine for a little bit,

435
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 2: but if it goes longer, then a little bit. Then

436
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, can you just get back? Like where

437
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: where do the other at least go? Like I want

438
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: her back now, you know. It's like we're done, We're good,

439
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: And so I work really hard at like Okay, why

440
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 2: am I this way? And let me fix it? Let

441
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 2: me go to therapy, let me just change my diet again,

442
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: and like start working out. And I think like being partnered,

443
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: like life partnered with someone like where I'm having a

444
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: down day and I'm crying and I'm apologizing because I'm

445
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: like I don't know why, I don't know what's going on.

446
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: He'll just look at me and be like, you don't

447
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 2: need to know. You don't need to explain it to

448
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 2: me or to yourself. You don't need to explain it

449
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: to our boys. Like if you just don't feel good

450
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 2: and you feel like it would be better if you

451
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: just laid in bed for a little bit and we

452
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 2: close the blinds and you watched a stupid show that

453
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 2: turned your brain off, Like you don't need to explain why, right,

454
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 2: And just the permission to not have to know almost

455
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: immediately like relieves the pressure and the things have more

456
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 2: space to be Like it's like the tank was immediately

457
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 2: just like grown and that it just dissolves a little bit,

458
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 2: you know, it's like thinner and lighter, and.

459
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting. But you know, in your journey, in

460
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: my journey, and I don't know whether you talk about

461
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: this in your book as well, but you know, the

462
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: spouse or the person on the other side of it

463
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 1: is so important to everything that you are. Yeah, and

464
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: my wife Erin is amazing that way. When it first

465
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: happening though in our twenties, when we were just dating,

466
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: scary it was for her. She was extremely compassionate, but

467
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: at the same time, like what's wrong, Like your life

468
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: is good, Like you're a successful you're acting as successful.

469
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: You come from a good family, Like we're in love,

470
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: Like what's going on? I don't fucking know. I don't know.

471
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm just crazy, But at least they feel crazy. And

472
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: then you know, there's been there's been two or three

473
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: other like you know, month plus long bouts of it,

474
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: and it's just she's just there. Yeah, just just be there.

475
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: You know, we all deal with it differently. You know,

476
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,959
Speaker 1: I don't need to be told you're gonna be okay

477
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: or anything like that. It seems to be present with me. Yeah,

478
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: and I can imagine it can get difficult too, where

479
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: it can get frustrating, where it's like.

480
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: I think they've got to learn they don't have to

481
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 2: fix us, Like they don't have to there's nothing you

482
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: can do. So it's like it's but I bet, I

483
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 2: bet they go through that as well off, like trying

484
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: to figure out how to support without being overbearing and

485
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 2: not also making it worse because it's like, let me be,

486
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: let me fix you, and it's like, well, I'm not

487
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 2: a project to be fixed. So it's like, yeah, it's

488
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 2: like I empathize so much with with partners that of

489
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 2: people like us, I guess that that are going through it.

490
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: But how how old are your kids?

491
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: So my kids are four and two and one of

492
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 2: them's name is Oliver, so it's really going I'm like,

493
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, Oliver grow an adult one.

494
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: I love that.

495
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

496
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: Are you aware of like who you are in front

497
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: of your kids? Do you just be who you are?

498
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: Do you if you are going through something? Do you

499
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: show them that you know? Are you just fully transparent.

500
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: As as much as I can be where with language

501
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: that they can understand at four and two? But mostly

502
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: for my oldest son, August me and him. He is

503
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 2: I'm Jonas's DNA. Didn't even try with this one. You know,

504
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: It's like he all of her is all him, artist

505
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: is all me.

506
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and with that.

507
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: Man like because of that the best and worst worst

508
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: parts of us not worst, but you know, best and

509
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 2: like hardest, just butt heads. And I have learned like

510
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 2: he is going to learn how to handle his overstimulation

511
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: and his anxiety and hopefully not depression. But like, if

512
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: if we are as similar as I think we are,

513
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: I he is going to have an incredible and very

514
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 2: emotionally like heavy life if he doesn't learn how to

515
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: navigate it.

516
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: Can you see that? Can you witness that in him

517
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: being who you are? Yeah? Right?

518
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: He he is obsessed with trash trucks. And it's not

519
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 2: when I say that, I mean he knows the name

520
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: of every single trash truck driver in my my Greater

521
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: Omaha area. He we have pictures of We've got we've

522
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: We've gone to the plant where all of them are

523
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 2: parked in the city and gotten a tour. And he

524
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 2: knows the names on the doors because they put the

525
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: names on the doors. He has had a birthday party

526
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: since he was first birthday of trash trucks. We have

527
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: trash can like it's his life. He wants to be

528
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: a trash driver, and he feels things so deeply, and

529
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: a lot of them are trash truck related because that's

530
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 2: the one thing he's very invested in. So his high

531
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: eighs and low lows are all about that. And I've

532
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: watched him like start weeping silently because he thought the

533
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 2: truck was so beautiful that he was like, I just

534
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: can't believe I only get to see it once a week,

535
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: and when I get to see it, I'm so like

536
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: lucky that I was out here when it drove by.

537
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: And when the trash truck like honks at him, he

538
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: looks back at me like, did you just see the

539
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: best thing that's ever happened to me? Like you were

540
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: here when you saw that? And like I like the

541
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 2: awe and wonder in him that I hope he never loses,

542
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: but that like I have in me, that people get

543
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: annoyed with because someone that has a lot of awe

544
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: on wonder and that empathy, that feeling deeply is like

545
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: really fun until they're stopping you because they want to

546
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: like take a picture of something that doesn't really matter

547
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: because they want to remember this moment forever, and so

548
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: I just try and like celebrate all of that in him.

549
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: But also there's the flip side of it, where it's

550
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: like things like a tag on his shirt will cause

551
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: him to spiral. And I'm up in the middle of

552
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 2: the night with scissors cutting every tag off of his

553
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: shirt and looking on Amazon for shirts that are less scratchy,

554
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: and it's like, I have got it. I have got

555
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: that is that is the same part in him that

556
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: is weeping at a garbage truck because it was so

557
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: beautiful that he got to see it once a week.

558
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: The city that is his brain, it's so beautiful, and

559
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: so I see, I see a lot of that the

560
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: potential for very small, seemingly small to other people, things

561
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: spiral to the point where you can't escape it on

562
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: you by yourself, and you need someone else to come

563
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: in and help you dig yourself out of that hole.

564
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: Now for someone who who understands this better than anybody.

565
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: And now your child is feeling these things, do you

566
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: parent him a little bit differently, knowing how to sort

567
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: of navigate potentially who he is because he's here offspring.

568
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I try. I try and just get him to

569
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: try and communicate with me because oftentimes the things that

570
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: are happening I'm like get angry at because you're like,

571
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: I'm tired all that. Yeah, but like I am so

572
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: keenly aware of how I had. I did not even

573
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: it wasn't even close. I didn't have what I needed

574
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: when I was his age, right, And I see myself

575
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: when I get angry at things that I was people

576
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: were angry at me for It is so sobering and

577
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: it is just this constant gut check. The parenthood is like,

578
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: I mean, the most why experience. It's I have breakdowns

579
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 2: so often of like am I just fucking him up

580
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: so badly? Like is he going to look back and

581
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: be like she was a terrible mom? And like what

582
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: stories is he going to tell us therapist one day?

583
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: You know. It's like, I'm sure he's going to have some.

584
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 2: We all have some.

585
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: Of course, I always say it's not about it if

586
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: we suck up our kids. What degree?

587
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I hope it's less than you know. But

588
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: but but it's really cool because it and I okay,

589
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: and I will say, you know, people say when you

590
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 2: have kids. It makes it helps you understand your parents better.

591
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that

592
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: at all. I have never understood them less because am

593
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: I overwhelmed? Yeah? Do I have panic attacks? Yeah? Do

594
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 2: I yell and I mess up sometimes?

595
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

596
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: There is absolutely nothing I wouldn't do for those kids. Nothing, nothing,

597
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 2: and that I could. I can't. I can't actually say

598
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: that about the people that were are just raising me.

599
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: I don't disagree, you know. I mean, because my dad bailed,

600
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: but I Kurt came into my life. He's my stepdad,

601
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: so I have a family, and my mom's amazing and

602
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: all of that, you know. But I remember at a

603
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: young age, very young age, talking to my mom and thinking,

604
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: I am never going to leave my children. I will

605
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: never do that, you know.

606
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, just deciding like that.

607
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a decision to be made.

608
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

609
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I did understand about my parents and I'm

610
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: talking about Kurt my mom now and even my dad

611
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: because my dad and are connecting now more than ever. Yeah,

612
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: after a billion years, which is nice. I said to

613
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: dream about him last night, by the way, which is crazy. Yeah,

614
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: but so I did. Once I had kids, I understood

615
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: the love that they have. Yeah, because when Mom and

616
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: Paul were like you know, they're there, they melt over

617
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: you when you're a teenager. When you're younger, you're like okay,

618
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: like I get yeah, I love you so much. You're

619
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: like ugh, and now, oh I understand that now because

620
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: I'm like that with my kids and they're the same way.

621
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: Like Dad like, just stop hugging me. I'm like, okay,

622
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: I can't. I'm sorry.

623
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: In eighteen, you don't even look old enough to have

624
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: an eighteen year old, but you said eighteen. I was like,

625
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 2: what the hell? But like, is that crazy? Like you're like,

626
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 2: I still do you still see the baby?

627
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: Oh? It's crazy. It's devastating. He's going to college next year.

628
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to need some heavy consoling.

629
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 2: You know, do you only have one?

630
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: I have three? I have eighteen fifteen, and then my

631
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: little girl's twelve. Yeah, and they're all amazing kids. And

632
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: you know, Wilder, my oldest, is my sensitive one. Like

633
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: he same thing with the tags when he was a baby.

634
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, he's got a sensitivity thing. Yeah, yeah,

635
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: he's got he's got sort of he's got some health anxiety.

636
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: So every five seconds he goes, I need an MRI,

637
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: like I need a cat scan. I'm like, Wilder, you don't.

638
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: But you know that's so deeply.

639
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: That's so I know I do too, And and and

640
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: my wife Aaron's like, oh, I wonder where that comes from.

641
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: Like I know we always do that one's that one's mine.

642
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 2: Oh Like we never never point to like that one's

643
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: yours because we don't want them to feel like we're

644
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: like judging. But anytime August says anything like I think

645
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: we should go to the doctors, I'm like, down's mine.

646
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I know it's my son, Wilder. It's

647
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: like everything is. And meanwhile, my middle one says nothing

648
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: about the way he feels. And then six months later

649
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, my back's been really killing me for

650
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 1: about six months. I'm like, well, why didn't you fucking

651
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: tell me?

652
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: Yeah? Classic middle child.

653
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, But I am and Wilder got that from me.

654
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: I am very sensitive, like feeling wise, like I'm very

655
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: emotional and you know, feeling other people's feelings. And I

656
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: think that's part of what screws me up. Sometimes It's

657
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: like sometimes it's just overwhelming energy.

658
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 2: But it's also a gift, like it allows you to

659
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: gauge the temperature of a room, it allows you to

660
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 2: be good at acting, writing, and it's the very thing.

661
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: It's like, the thing that makes me so good at

662
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 2: my job could also destroy me. So I've got to

663
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 2: keep it in check.

664
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: It's so true and you have to sort of change it,

665
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: turn it into more of a superpower than than an affliction.

666
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: Same with the add you know, Yeah, totally, it can

667
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: be a very powerful, beautiful creative Yeah.

668
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: Of course. Yeah. I think I was going to ask

669
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: with your job, like, do you feel like you get

670
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: you can lose yourself to the feeling of it, to

671
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: the point where you realize you've accidentally, like on purpose,

672
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 2: put yourself in that position for a.

673
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: Role or Yes, it's funny. It's a great, great question

674
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: because it's something that I wish I could do more of.

675
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 1: So there's you're wrestling. I'm wrestling with two things. Going

676
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: back to the sort of the Hoffman situation, to where

677
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: I felt stupid, there's a part of me that if

678
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: I was to truly let go and immerse myself and

679
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: do it poorly even though it was my truth, but

680
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: I wasn't good, or at least my perception of myself.

681
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: Wasn't that that it wasn't good. Then people would not

682
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: like me. People would be like, oh, he's not he's

683
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: not What did he fucking do there? So it's it's

684
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: it's it's safer for me to play it safe.

685
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 2: Totally.

686
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish I didn't. I wish I didn't care.

687
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: You know, my dad, my whole family are actors, and

688
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: my brother and even Kate and cur they don't give

689
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: a fuck. It's like this I don't give a fuck attitude,

690
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: which is such a nice way to approach it.

691
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: Where do you fall in the lineup of the of

692
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 2: your ages?

693
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: I'm the oldest, you're the oldest.

694
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay, that to me makes sense because it's

695
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 2: like I feel like you've always lived your life with

696
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: an audience. These little kiddos are looking up to you,

697
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 2: even though you guys aren't like very The age differences

698
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: aren't crazy, right.

699
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: Of my siblings? Yeah no, no, I mean, well, why

700
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: my my he's my half so he's ten years but

701
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 1: Kate and I are blood and then I've got half.

702
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 2: Okay, and how how much older are you?

703
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: Thank Kate two and a half years.

704
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's like it's just enough to where you're like,

705
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 2: I mean two and a half years in grade school

706
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: is a lot, because that's like senior and sophomore. Do

707
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: you like a freshman or sophomore?

708
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, psycho, Yeah, it's like it's like a

709
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: sophomore senior.

710
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 2: Yeah. So at those ages, which is when a lot

711
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: of your identity and like the things that you will

712
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: carry forever are like being formed as like a person

713
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 2: an individual. It's like you were constantly doing that, almost

714
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 2: like a trailblazer for someone that was younger than you,

715
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: that was watching you, and so like to fail would

716
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: mean like I'm not giving a good example, and also

717
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 2: like I've got to get it right, but you don't

718
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 2: have anyone to look at that's doing it before you.

719
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 2: And so it's like that fear of like I just

720
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: have to get it right and I don't want to

721
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: be embarrassed and I want people to think I'm good.

722
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: Is like I can't imagine that that doesn't at least

723
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 2: play a little bit of a yeah.

724
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: For sure, one hundred percent. And and just this idea

725
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: that you know, going even deeper. Dad left because I

726
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: wasn't lovable, which is ridiculous, but as a little as

727
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: a five year old, that's what you take it as.

728
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: So if I can not rock a boat, if I

729
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: can just sort of be cool and have no one

730
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 1: dislike me, then I'm safe. Yeah you know what I mean, Well,

731
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: I'm safe.

732
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: Do you find that you also are, Like you were

733
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: passive as a kid or.

734
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 1: No, Yeah, I was. It was it was a little

735
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: bit of both. I mean, until Kurt came into my life,

736
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: I was very at mama's boy. I was very shy,

737
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: and then he brought me to Colorado and sort of

738
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: taught me independence, you know, some tough lessons that were

739
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: great lessons of just feeling alone and having panic but

740
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: understanding like there's no need to because I can get

741
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: us home. You know, just just you know, just this

742
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: sort of just advocating for myself at a young age,

743
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: knowing that I was stronger than I was. You know,

744
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: those are the things that he gave me. I was

745
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: I was five years six years old, six years old

746
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 1: when he came in, sort of six seven years old

747
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: when he sort of became my stepdad.

748
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: That's really beautiful that like you still got that in somebody,

749
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: and it was like almost even it's powerful and like

750
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: he's not your blood, but he loved you and led

751
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: you and treated you like you were so important that

752
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: it's like just because you aren't my like blood relative,

753
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 2: like you are important enough for me to care for.

754
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah really really yeah, he understood the circumstances as well.

755
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: He basically came to us as kids and said, hey,

756
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: no matter what happens with me and your mom, because

757
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: life is life, who the hell knows, but I will

758
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: never leave you. I will always be here for you

759
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: whatever happens. But you know, it was at that young

760
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: age where he reassured us that there will always be

761
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 1: a man in your life no matter what happens with

762
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: me and your mother, right, yeah, And we believed him,

763
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: you know, and yeah, you know, so far, so good man.

764
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: I think that, like I don't really give credit to

765
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: how because I've it's not a reality for me to

766
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 2: like have a older figures except my brothers, to really

767
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: look up to.

768
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: That.

769
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 2: I forget how important it is, you know, like this

770
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: like longing in you to have that. I forget that.

771
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, no, wonder you know, like you know

772
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like I just hearing this, I actually

773
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 2: can't fathom it. I can't fathom that experience that you've

774
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: had with Kirk, and so yeah, I think it's really

775
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: sobering for me to hear that, because it's like, just

776
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 2: be a little easier on yourself. It's all good, Like

777
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 2: it's all good, buddy, Like you're figuring it out and

778
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: you're doing a great job because you're doing this from scratch,

779
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 2: and so it's really helpful.

780
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: This is what I was saying before. It's like, it's

781
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: so interesting. The human condition is so interesting perspective. I

782
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: just love it. It just gets me going back to your life,

783
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 1: like how did you How did you make this your life?

784
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: You know, I mean when did you get on social media?

785
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: At what point did you realize, Wow, you know I

786
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: have I'm amassing followers and I'm actually affecting people. I'm

787
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: touching people here, and I'm assuming that was the that

788
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: was the point where you said, oh, wow, I can

789
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: make some sort of a difference here and and really

790
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: ignite my platforms.

791
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. To be honest, it was not an intentional decision

792
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: until it was. We were way far into it. So

793
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: I was running a I created like a web development company,

794
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: and I was a coder and a designer, and that

795
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 2: was like what I was really good at and I

796
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 2: loved it, and I was doing that from home when

797
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 2: COVID was happening, and but I was also going through

798
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 2: lots of really dark like when I had when I

799
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: was in postpartum, like I had, I was hit with

800
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 2: some of the darkest light thoughts, depression like it was

801
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: just so it was so long, like a year. It

802
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 2: was so bad, and I was still act. You know,

803
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: no one would have known, which is like crazy that

804
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: you can just hide that. And I because I just

805
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 2: felt like if I said anything, like someone was going

806
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 2: to like take my son and I'll like, I'm okay.

807
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 2: But just like I've never it was unlike any kind

808
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 2: of depression I'd ever experienced. And so I remembered trying

809
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,479
Speaker 2: to reconnect with myself, and I like, you, I've always

810
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 2: been a journaler, so I was like I would be

811
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 2: writing these things, and I was like, I have got

812
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 2: to remember who I was before I had this baby,

813
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 2: because if I don't, I don't think I'm gonna make it.

814
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 2: Because it felt like my whole life just restarted and

815
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: my brain was wiped. And I was like, we've got

816
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: to reconnect, We've got to build that bridge back to

817
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: who you were, because that's really important. She's really important

818
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: and we can't lose her. And so I started telling

819
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 2: stories about my life, like really simple little stories, and

820
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: it was just the perfect combination of like people being

821
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 2: home and on their phones, me know, being a writer,

822
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 2: but never like like then I was like performing the stories.

823
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: But then I was like I was an editor, so

824
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: I was editing, like animating these stories. And then I'm

825
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 2: also like I don't really have a good awareness of

826
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: what you should and shouldn't say, so I was saying

827
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: things that other people were like, oh, she's just like

828
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 2: saying things other people like keep quiet. But in my mind,

829
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: I was like, this isn't revolutionary. I'm just letting people

830
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 2: know I had a panic attack yesterday, Like I don't.

831
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: That doesn't feel like I feel like you're so brave.

832
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, should I have not said? That's when

833
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, did I say something I shouldn't have said?

834
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 2: You know, when people are like commenting on that. And

835
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 2: so the perfect combination of all of that just connected

836
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 2: with people and it started growing very quickly, like very rapidly,

837
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: And never did I think this was going to be

838
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 2: like a full time job, because that at that time,

839
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: would be so irresponsible to like, I just had a baby,

840
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 2: I have a full company I've built from the ground

841
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 2: up that's thriving. It's like, yeah, I'll just throw it

842
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 2: all away and make some videos on the internet. It

843
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 2: was like that so silly to me in my mind. Yeah,

844
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: And then once it got to the point where I

845
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 2: was having to choose between spending my time working at

846
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: my web dev company or making videos and then seeing

847
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 2: how much like you could make if you just actually

848
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,439
Speaker 2: like focused on it, I was like it now would

849
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 2: be irresponsible of me to know that and still choose this.

850
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: So I made the transition, and that's kind of been

851
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 2: my life since. But I've always treated it as like

852
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 2: this is still the thing I'm doing to reconnect with myself.

853
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 2: I'm still writing, I'm still remembering who I was and

854
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 2: who I am, And honestly, people in the Internet have

855
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: watched me become more of myself than I ever have been.

856
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 2: Like this last year has been so transformative for me,

857
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: like feeling like I'm learning parts of myself in front

858
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: of millions of people, and finally, like like what you

859
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 2: said of feeling embarrassed, I have a lot of those

860
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: in different fonts and flavors of my life. It's not

861
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 2: so much giving all. It's people have this idea of

862
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 2: who I am and in their head as a person,

863
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: and if I sway from that at all, they're going

864
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 2: to be like, why are you tranks hard? Or like,

865
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: you know, like I've never been very girly until because

866
00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: I had three older brothers, So I'm learning how to

867
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 2: like feel more feminine. But am I doing this because

868
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 2: I feel like I should or because I want to?

869
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 2: And so like just doing all of that, And it's

870
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: just being open about things like that with people. It

871
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: they see themselves in it and they just want to

872
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: join in. And that's kind of how well.

873
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: To help your own mentality, your own mental states, your

874
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: own anxieties and depressions and all of this, to expose

875
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: yourself and get out there.

876
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 2: It made it worse, Yeah, did made it worse? Yeah? Yeah?

877
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you were almost sacrificing yourself a little bit

878
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: for this endeavor.

879
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,760
Speaker 2: I did it with the understanding that I would feel

880
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 2: that way any with any career change I was making

881
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: when I didn't set out to make it. So I

882
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 2: had to really pick apart what I was feeling and understand.

883
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 2: And that's why I waited so long to transition as well,

884
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 2: because I knew I like, I couldn't really once I

885
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,760
Speaker 2: got to a certain point, I can't really go back,

886
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 2: like with who I am. It's like I'm always going

887
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 2: to run into people that know me and it's going

888
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 2: to change that of my life forever, no matter what,

889
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 2: even if it stopped right now. And so I was like,

890
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 2: I'm not going to let go until I'm very sure

891
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 2: this is what I want. And so I also knew

892
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: there's going to be a transition period where this is

893
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 2: going to feel really scary. And of course millions of

894
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,479
Speaker 2: people like I say this a lot, but the human

895
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: brain is like not built to be famous. Human heart,

896
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 2: It's not You're not meant to know this much information

897
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: about you and opinions and be in front of that

898
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 2: many people and be celebrated when this person doesn't know

899
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 2: who you are. It's like, that's a very weird thing

900
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: for the human heart to experience. And so yeah, I

901
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 2: had to believe that I'm either going to get used

902
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 2: to this and enjoy it or I'm not, and I'm

903
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 2: going to let it go because I will not let

904
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 2: it take me out.

905
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: And then you eventually figure transitioned into that place of

906
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: acceptance and enjoy it. I mean, yeah, there's got to

907
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,479
Speaker 1: be some enjoyment to it. Oh, I love it. Now

908
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: you're making money, which we all have to do, but

909
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: you're also doing it in a way that you know

910
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: you're helping people and to be crazy.

911
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 2: For me, I'm a professional creative.

912
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 1: It's like pretty amazing.

913
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: It's the actual dream and I don't niche down. I

914
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: make whatever I want.

915
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you inspired? Meaning like are your Is

916
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: your social media like an inspired by or is it

917
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: a job in the sense that I have to put

918
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: stuff out? I have to be part of an algorithm.

919
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: You know that I have literally never treated it that way.

920
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 2: I post when I want to. Yeah, I personally thrive

921
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 2: on structure, and so I like to have a schedule.

922
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 2: I don't plan posts out, but like, yeah, I think

923
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: for me, the open endedness of like coming because this

924
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 2: is my office. So I live in our house and

925
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: then I have this house that is like a studio

926
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 2: in different rooms, and so to walk in and just

927
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 2: be like what am I gonna do today? That I

928
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 2: would never that would be so overwhelming to me.

929
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel that yeah.

930
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 2: So I have to have like a structure of like

931
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 2: today's the day I film like today, and then today's

932
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: the day I edit, Today's the day I write. This

933
00:47:58,440 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 2: is a music day if I want to do it,

934
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: and I can shift it around, but having that structure helps.

935
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's I genuinely, I'm just making content on

936
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: what I'm currently hyper fixated on. And so right now

937
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 2: it's the book because it kind of has to be.

938
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,959
Speaker 2: But like of other times, I'm super into like ear

939
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 2: harmony stimming, like I want to hear the dissonance and

940
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: like resonance between two notes, so I build like harmony

941
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 2: building and live looping and and then other times I'm

942
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 2: super into a reality TV show, so I make my

943
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 2: whole feed if I was a bachelor on the contestant

944
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 2: on the Bachelor and that green screen. Myself really poorly

945
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: into these things, and I'm just asking people questions and

946
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 2: having I'm just taking things I love and letting people

947
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: into it. It's really fun.

948
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: Well, let's get into the book now that you brought

949
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: it up. Talk about the book. Let's do it.

950
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 2: This is my book. I wrote it.

951
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: It's my face, it's your face. You wrote it all

952
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: by yourself.

953
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 2: Oh, by myself, illustrate it. Here's the end pages. I

954
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 2: like to show people it's my desk, and yeah, it's

955
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 2: it's short stories. It's not a memoir. It's like it's

956
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 2: Some are poems, like allegorical poems that are based on

957
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 2: true stories. Some are straightforward narrative, but it's like, you know,

958
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 2: composites of people, so I don't get sued all that, like,

959
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, it's it's so it's it's one of

960
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,479
Speaker 2: the coolest creative things I've ever made. I'm so proud

961
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 2: of it. It was it took so long, but when

962
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: I read them the stories back, like it's it's just

963
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 2: so rich. The writing is so fun. It's such a

964
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 2: fun read. But it's also like got so much heart

965
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 2: in it because it's like funny. But then you just

966
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 2: kind of like the content I make on the Internet,

967
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: it's like it'll swoop down into like but also everything's

968
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: gonna be okay and like and you're okay, you know,

969
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 2: and I like I like doing that. I like just

970
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 2: I like adding that into everything I do because a

971
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,760
Speaker 2: lot of what I'm making has come from a memory

972
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: that I have felt, processed and then learned from and

973
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 2: so like, I like to be able to give that

974
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 2: to somebody as well and everything that I make. So

975
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 2: getting to pepper that through my books been really.

976
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: Have you did you create a structure for the book

977
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: before you started or was it kind of like, okay,

978
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 1: page one.

979
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 2: Well it's it's I mean, I wrote this book twenty

980
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 2: times over in different ways, and so yeah, Like I

981
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 2: essentially was like, I don't know where to start because

982
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 2: I didn't it's not chronological. I didn't want it to

983
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,760
Speaker 2: be like this is a memoir, so I just started

984
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 2: writing and then and then I would get inspired by

985
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 2: what I was writing. Have you ever read the book

986
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 2: Bird by Bird by An LaMotte.

987
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: No, I'm on such a reading kick right now. It's insane.

988
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: I can't stop reading, Oliver, you have I read forty

989
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: books this year so far. I'm like, yeah, I'm obsessed.

990
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 2: You have to Yeah, bird by Bird and okay. So

991
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 2: I was reading that at the time and it really

992
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: helped me push through a lot of my fear. Essentially,

993
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 2: the idea is like, if you're a writer, then you

994
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 2: should write, and doesn't matter if it's good or bad,

995
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 2: you should be writing.

996
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: God, I need to read it because this is what

997
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: I'm best at. I won, I wont awards as a

998
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 1: kid for writing I wrote. I wrote a short story

999
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: called Elevators to the Moon in fourth grade that it

1000
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: was so I have it and I i'm reading it.

1001
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: I read it back, I'm like, this is fucking good.

1002
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: And I won like the Amates International Award, and I

1003
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: got my first pay check and it's frame. It's what

1004
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 1: I love to do. But my add or whatever it is,

1005
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: I get so bound up in the enormity of it

1006
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: that I I'm like, ah, fuck this, I can't.

1007
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 2: You have to she makes it so I just I

1008
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 2: really as it. The longer I've been talking to you,

1009
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 2: the more I'm like, I think you would love that book.

1010
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:31,760
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to get it.

1011
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 2: But so so a lot of the process happened because

1012
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: I was reading that, and then I was trying to

1013
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 2: put this together and I had I think I just

1014
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: said this. Someone else can't remember, but I was saying.

1015
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 2: I flew to New York and I was in a

1016
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 2: hotel room for a week to write the book. I

1017
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: was like, I'm not leaving this hotel room until the

1018
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 2: book is done. And I felt like I was metaphorically

1019
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 2: like banging my head against a wall. Third day in,

1020
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 2: I hadn't written anything, and I was like, I am

1021
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 2: such a failure. And now I've wasted money on a

1022
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,760
Speaker 2: hotel room for a week and this really nice place.

1023
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 2: And I remembered sitting there in the my like flannel

1024
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: was it was hanging in the closet, and I was like,

1025
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 2: I wonder if this flannel thinks I'm such an idiot

1026
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 2: that like it's just watching me waste time. And then

1027
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 2: I saw myself like pacing back and forth from the

1028
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 2: point of view through the slats of this flannel in

1029
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 2: the closet, and I was like, I'm just going to

1030
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 2: write a story about how this how upset this flannel

1031
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 2: is that I took it all the way to New

1032
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 2: York and it didn't It didn't even get used because

1033
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 2: I didn't write it. And then that ended up changing

1034
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 2: the trajectory of the whole book because I included that

1035
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 2: was the idea. I changed it to make it fit

1036
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 2: what I was doing. But that same idea of like

1037
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 2: a story from the perspective of a shirt, it's a

1038
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 2: very fun bote.

1039
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: Well, I can't wait. I gotta get it. I got

1040
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: to read your book This was so much fun talking

1041
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: to you. I could talk. Thank you so much much

1042
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: much longer.

1043
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: Okay, great, well I'll talk talk to bye bye.

1044
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: Oh man. That time went fast, fast, fast, I was

1045
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: That felt like one of the fastest hours I've had

1046
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: in a long time. Yeah, I keep going. I could

1047
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,240
Speaker 1: keep going with her. It's just fascinating stuff. Thank you, Elise.

1048
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: That was fucking awesome, really cool. I can't wait to

1049
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,359
Speaker 1: read your book. Everyone should pick up that book. By

1050
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: the way, everyone should pick up that book. It's called

1051
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: That's a Great Question I'd love to tell you by

1052
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: Elie Myers. And it's available now, so go check it out,

1053
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: all right, Oliver Hudson gone,