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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast.

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Speaker 2: All right, hour two Clay and Buck kicks off now, everybody,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Talking about the Trump

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Speaker 2: trial in the first hour. We'll get back to the

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Speaker 2: latest with that for sure. Also some drama up on

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Speaker 2: Capitol Hill. Marjor Taylor Green and a couple of others

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Speaker 2: now are thinking about replacing Speaker Johnson. Meet the new

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Speaker 2: speaker same as the old speaker. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: say we told you so, but I kind of told you.

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Speaker 2: A lot of you agreed, some of you disagreed. But

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Speaker 2: now we see changing out the speaker when you have

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Speaker 2: a razor thin majority in the House to begin with,

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Speaker 2: isn't going to give you all the things you want.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about it, though, and there's some interesting ideas

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Speaker 2: and options out there, to be sure. It's I think

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Speaker 2: it's an interesting debate. Nothing else allows people to vent

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Speaker 2: some of their irritation with the Rhinocaucus, such as it is.

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Speaker 2: But we mentioned this story to you. Wanted to return

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Speaker 2: to this one for a second. NPR, which is best

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Speaker 2: known for being I think the radio station you hear

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Speaker 2: in the background that is intended to help make you

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Speaker 2: fall asleep. It's really good.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: They all kind of talk like this, and they have

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Speaker 2: this very sort of, you know, mellow way of speaking,

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Speaker 2: and they just got and you know, you kind of

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Speaker 2: get dazed into it. I haven't listened to a lot

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Speaker 2: of NPR. Occasion'm in a car. Somebody has it on.

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Speaker 2: NPR has suspended that editor we mentioned who claimed left

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Speaker 2: wing bias at the outlet and said that they had

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Speaker 2: lost America's trust. NPR suspension here of this guy after

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Speaker 2: he had a scathing online essay embracing a because MPR

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Speaker 2: has embraced a progressive worldview, prompting quote this from CNN

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Speaker 2: Clay's favorite favorite place last twenty four hours. Yes, they

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Speaker 2: want they want him suspended. They want Clay locked up.

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Speaker 2: That's what we know about CNN. I'm doing fierce right

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Speaker 2: wing backlash calling for the defunding of Public, the public

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Speaker 2: radio network. And yeah, they got into some of this.

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Speaker 2: I have to say they they're I'm not surprised they

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Speaker 2: did this at all. I didn't really process at first

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Speaker 2: that this guy still work for NPR at some level, though,

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Speaker 2: I think Clay. One of the lessons here is for

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Speaker 2: people that wake up and recognize, Oh, I don't work

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Speaker 2: for a news organization, I work up for I work

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Speaker 2: for a propaganda entity that does the work of the

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Speaker 2: left of the Democrat Party. They know that, and they

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Speaker 2: expect their employees to know that, And the whole game

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Speaker 2: is everybody knows, but nobody's allowed to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: This is true, by the way, at CNN, this is

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Speaker 2: true at ABC News, this is true at all of

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Speaker 2: these plays New York Times. So did you really think

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Speaker 2: he was going to get away with it? What do

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Speaker 2: you make of this? So I look at this in

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Speaker 2: the context.

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Speaker 1: His name, by the way, is Uri Berlinner, I think,

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Speaker 1: which sounds like a made up name. But Uri Berlinner

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Speaker 1: found that there were seventy six registered Democrats in the

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Speaker 1: Washington DC NPR office and there were no Republicans. And

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Speaker 1: he raised that as an issue because they claim that

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Speaker 1: they care about the overall fairness of their doctrine. So

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Speaker 1: my first thought is, we have to legitimately get to

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Speaker 1: the case buck, We're not one single dollar of taxpayer

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Speaker 1: money direct or indirect goes to fund NPR. If they

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Speaker 1: can work in the marketplace and if they can make

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Speaker 1: a living, as all businesses do more power to them.

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Speaker 1: The government doesn't fund Clay and Buck. We stand alone

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Speaker 1: as a capitalistic venture based on you guys listening and

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Speaker 1: sponsorship dollars and everything else. So this to me is

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Speaker 1: number one. Number two. The new woman that they hired.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen some of her some

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Speaker 1: of her tweets, but even by NPR standards, this woman

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Speaker 1: is crazy. This woman's name is this is the person

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Speaker 1: who's suspending Yuri Berlinner. Her name is Catherine Mayer or

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Speaker 1: mar I'm not sure how you pronounce it. She tweeted

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Speaker 1: this lots of jokes about leaving the US, and I

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Speaker 1: get it, But as someone with SIS white mobility privilege,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking I'm staying and investing in ridding ourselves of

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Speaker 1: this specter of tyranny. Uh So, I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: that SIS white mobility privilege existed. I guess that means

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Speaker 1: if you're white and you can walk.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask you this is it? Is

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Speaker 2: it economic mobility or physical mobility we're talking about here?

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Speaker 2: Is it you have the the financial means to leave

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Speaker 2: a place, or is it you have the actual physical

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Speaker 2: ability to walk out of a place? As in being

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Speaker 2: more mobile, do we know? I, oh, that's a great question.

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Speaker 2: You may be right.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even think about it as an economic way

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Speaker 1: of analyzing things. I thought it because I tied this

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Speaker 1: in with you know, they did away with the use

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Speaker 1: of the disabled list in Major League Baseball. You knew this, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: they now have the uh. I think it's the injured

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Speaker 1: list because they found that the disabled list was considered

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Speaker 1: to be not respectful enough of people with disabilities. So

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Speaker 1: I believe they've changed the name in Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: to the injured list. Here's a couple of Catherine Mar's

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Speaker 1: other It's a good question.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe some of our woke translators out there know

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Speaker 1: the answer to that. Here's a couple of her other tweets.

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Speaker 1: Buck I do wish Hillary wouldn't use the language of

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Speaker 1: boy and girl. It's erasing language for non binary people.

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Speaker 1: She tweeted. These are her tweets. This is the person

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Speaker 1: who's in charge of NPR. I'm an unalloyed progressive and

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Speaker 1: supporting Hillary this time around. She also said the best

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Speaker 1: part of Arizona GOOTV is my Biden grandpa hat. So

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Speaker 1: she's walking around in a Biden for president with one

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Speaker 1: of those massive N ninety five masks on her. These

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Speaker 1: are things that she's tweeted. So this woman is far

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Speaker 1: left wing. I saw this communist is running NPR. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I saw this not only in the specter of this

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Speaker 1: guy gets suspended for telling the truth, which is NPR

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Speaker 1: is a rig news organization, but that he's being suspended by,

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Speaker 1: to your point, effectively a left wing communist who is

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Speaker 1: ostensibly arguing that she is representative of the American public.

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Speaker 1: We just no American taxpayer dollars. Yesterday was tax Day.

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Speaker 1: I cut checks. I was not happy to cut I

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Speaker 1: bet you did too. I know a lot of you

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Speaker 1: out there listening did too. The idea that any dollars

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Speaker 1: that I send in would go to support NPR in

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Speaker 1: any way direct or indirect is fundamentally unacceptable. It's time

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Speaker 1: to truly cut them off.

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Speaker 2: It's fascinating too that they the people that are so

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Speaker 2: obsessed with diversity and inclusion just as words. We all

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Speaker 2: know what that means. It's really just uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: race based mark cosmetic diversity. It's cosmetic diversity, right, But

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Speaker 2: put that aside for a second. The people that are

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Speaker 2: obsessed with diversity and inclusion. Think it's okay that NPR,

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Speaker 2: which does get some public funding, those it's not a lot. Okay,

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Speaker 2: But what's not a lot? Why do you get any?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: You know, you know, how about we get you know,

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Speaker 2: oh well the Clay and Buck show. The government Just

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Speaker 2: kick us like, you know, five ten mil. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's no big deal. Just kick us five or ten mil.

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Speaker 2: It's not a lot, right, I mean, why not eighty

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Speaker 2: seven registered Democrats, zero Republicans working at NPR. How can

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Speaker 2: anyone think that a news organization that does not even

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Speaker 2: feel the need to have a a token Republican right?

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Speaker 4: Does it?

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Speaker 2: Does it even feel the need to have Hey, like

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Speaker 2: we you know, we hate Bob who sits or Bill

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Speaker 2: who sits in the corner and is are like crazy

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Speaker 2: right winger. But at least we know what half the

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Speaker 2: country thinks if we talk to them. They don't even

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Speaker 2: want that. They want like a Maoist cultural revolution level

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Speaker 2: purity in that newsroom. They want it to be only

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Speaker 2: people that all agree and see the country the same way,

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Speaker 2: knowing that half the country things. I don't think people

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Speaker 2: that work at NPR are like I have like difference

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Speaker 2: of opinion. I think that there are a lot of

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Speaker 2: times delusional and mentally ill like I think there's something

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Speaker 2: wrong with them. I think they have anxiety disorders that

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Speaker 2: they actually think are political positions, and that's where we

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Speaker 2: are as a country. So I just think we need

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Speaker 2: to be honest.

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Speaker 1: About it and think about how much self selecting is

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Speaker 1: going on. If an organization that has as many employees

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Speaker 1: as NPR is one hundred percent has Democrats, And this

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Speaker 1: is why the diversity and inclusion people to me are

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Speaker 1: full of it. The only diversity that matters is diversity

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Speaker 1: of thought, and what they're doing is using cosmetic diversity

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Speaker 1: as a cover to have a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: look different and think the exact same. How does that

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Speaker 1: benefit any organization well?

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Speaker 2: And the way the way diversity and inclusion actually functions

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Speaker 2: at institutions that are considered elite, at least in terms

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Speaker 2: of you know, it's hard to get hired or hard

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Speaker 2: to get admitted thinking about schools in that context, right,

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Speaker 2: the truth of a Harvard an NPR is not Harvard

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Speaker 2: by any means, but similar idea, the same mentality work.

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Speaker 2: The truth of an NPR is they think that there

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Speaker 2: is more more to be gained from the perspective that

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Speaker 2: you get of having a white you know, let's say

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Speaker 2: a white guy whose h you know, parents, you know,

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Speaker 2: went to Cornell or something, and we're we're doctors sitting

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Speaker 2: next to a black guy whose parents went to uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, went to Dartmouth and or they think that that, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: there's diversity there. But they don't think that there's diversity

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Speaker 2: if you have somebody who grew up you know, in

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Speaker 2: rural eastern Kentucky really poor. Yeah, they don't think of

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Speaker 2: that as diversity. They don't think of that as expanding perspective. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, two people that would have lived very similar

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Speaker 2: lives and often share very similar perspectives, but are different

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Speaker 2: ethnicities that somehow to them brings different perspective to the conversation.

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Speaker 2: That's far more valuable than somebody who, for example, grew

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Speaker 2: up really poor in disadvantage and somebody who grew up

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Speaker 2: really rich. Like, they don't view that as necessary at all.

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Speaker 1: And this guy, Yuri Berliner, is a Democrat, so he's

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Speaker 1: just not leftist enough for the Demons. Like he's a

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Speaker 1: Republican who was pointing out the flaws that he saw here.

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Speaker 1: He's just somewhat of an honest liberal, not a progressive

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Speaker 1: and honest liberal who looks around and says, we don't

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Speaker 1: really have a marketplace of ideas here, and we're failing

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Speaker 1: as a result.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think of idelogies in this way, you know.

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Speaker 2: And this is this has been true of honestly, of

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Speaker 2: communists all along. Is they want to infiltrate an organization,

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Speaker 2: a country, an entity, and then they need uniformity. They

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Speaker 2: need to control the entire thing because their ideas stink

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Speaker 2: and their results are horrible, and so if there is

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Speaker 2: any other approach that could be at hand, they will

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Speaker 2: not have power. So this is why they need absolutism.

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Speaker 2: They need uniformity. And I've said it reminds me, you know,

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Speaker 2: I went and uh, I went and took my little

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Speaker 2: nephew and my family to that. We had amazing alligator tour.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: One of the big problems in the Everglades is they

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Speaker 2: have these there's a bunch of different invasive species, but

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Speaker 2: a big one is the boa constrictors.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: They've got or like pythons, Bermese pythons, boa constrictors, and

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Speaker 2: they eat a lot of the native wildlife. And the

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Speaker 2: thing is they're not trying to establish a balance in

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Speaker 2: the ecosystem. They're gonna they're gonna like kill all the

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Speaker 2: native species, birds and different things, and because they will

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Speaker 2: take over. That's why they're invasive species. Lionfish, the same

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Speaker 2: thing on the reefs here. That's why they go out

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Speaker 2: they hunt these lines. You ever see those things are

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Speaker 2: crazy looking whitefish.

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Speaker 1: Or the carp up in the Midwest that have gotten

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Speaker 1: into so many of the lakes and rivers all over

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Speaker 1: the Midwest to take over and dominate this invasive species

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Speaker 1: from Asia.

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Speaker 2: Communists, ideologically aren't invasive species. They do not seek This

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Speaker 2: is why it's so fascinate. They talk about like diversity

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Speaker 2: and inclusion, all this stuff whatever, They actually do not

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Speaker 2: seek parody, representation, anything else. They want ideological across the

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Speaker 2: board conformity. Which is why the New York Times NPR

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Speaker 2: look at the same story clay that plays out in

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Speaker 2: newsroom after newsroom over the last twenty years. Somehow it

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Speaker 2: never is the case that they go, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: I woke up one day in the Washington Post was

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Speaker 2: so right wing and only far right, maga hat wearing.

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Speaker 2: We don't think that way. They the communist Democrat think

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Speaker 2: in terms of it can only be my way and

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Speaker 2: the existence of other ideas is a threat to the

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Speaker 2: existence of my ideas. It's all or nothing with them.

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Speaker 2: And that's what you see at NPR, and that's what

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Speaker 2: you see at a campus after campus, news organization after

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Speaker 2: news organization, and now unfortunately, company after company, and it

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Speaker 2: ain't getting better.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting that when someone speaks out and a

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Speaker 1: lot of people say, you know what, he's right, they

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Speaker 1: immediately try to silence him. And that's happening lots of places,

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Speaker 1: probably in your employment offices out there. You've seen things

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Speaker 1: like this happen.

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Speaker 2: And they don't even they don't even feel the need

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Speaker 2: to address the underlying critique, which is obviously a problem.

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Speaker 2: You have a news organization that only has Democrats and

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Speaker 2: that's getting public funding. That should be an embarrassment. No,

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Speaker 2: the problem is that he talked about it, not a

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Speaker 2: lot to talk about it. You shut your mouth, you

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Speaker 2: do the work of the Communist Party, you call yourself

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Speaker 2: a good, loyal, progressive Democrat, and you go forward.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: Look, if you're a firearms enthusiast like i am, where

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Speaker 2: you have one in your life. I want to tell

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Speaker 2: you about this incredible firearms manufacturer, Bear Creek Arsenal. This

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Speaker 2: should be your new firearms manufacture of choice. Veteran owned

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Speaker 2: and operated base right here in Sanford, North Carolina. Bear

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Speaker 2: Creek Arsenal makes high quality firearms at an incredible value.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know some of you out there probably

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Speaker 2: have ars that you paid I don't know, one thousand bucks,

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Speaker 2: maybe fifteen hundred four. You can get a Bear Creek

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Speaker 2: Arsenal rifle that is every bit as good. And I

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Speaker 2: was out of the range testing him out this weekend.

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Speaker 2: I had my most expensive ar, which is crazy expensive,

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Speaker 2: and my bar Creek Arsenal. Bearkreek Arsenal is every bit

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Speaker 2: as good of a tool, every bit as good of

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Speaker 2: a firearm, and it's a fraction of the price. I'm

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Speaker 2: telling you, when you see the value, the craftsmanship, the

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Speaker 2: precision of Bear Creek Arsenal, you're gonna love it. Amazing pistols,

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Speaker 2: gear rifles. Go check it out for yourself. Bear Creekarsenal

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Speaker 2: dot com, slash buck that's the website. Go to Bear

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Speaker 2: Creekarsenal dot com slash buck. Use my name buck as

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Speaker 2: your promo code. Get ten percent off your first order.

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Speaker 2: That's Bearcreekarsenal dot com slash buck and use promo code

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Speaker 2: buck for ten percent off. We're going to be joined

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Speaker 2: by Julie Kelly from Washington, d C. She's been in

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court this morning listening to arguments surrounding a

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Speaker 2: huge portion of the jan six charges and whether or

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Speaker 2: not the application of that statute to January sixth is

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Speaker 2: or is not permissible under the law, and spoiler alert,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like those charges are going to get struck

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Speaker 2: down by the Supreme Court. That's significant not only for

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Speaker 2: everyone out there who is charged with Jan six related

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Speaker 2: violations relating to these statutes, but also because it is

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Speaker 2: half of the four charges that have been brought by

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Speaker 2: Jack Smith against Donald Trump. So it's possible that Jack

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Speaker 2: Smith is going to lose half of his case on

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Speaker 2: the jan sixth federal prosecution, which may never go to

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Speaker 2: trial anyway. But it sounded buck and we'll talk to

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Speaker 2: Julie se if she agrees like this was going to

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Speaker 2: flip and get struck down by a six ' to

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Speaker 2: three margin at least. And some of the liberal justices

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Speaker 2: sounded like they were open to the idea that this

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Speaker 2: had been misapplied against Jan six defendants as well. Prosecutors

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Speaker 2: shouldn't think of their job as highly creative, right. The

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Speaker 2: law should be straightforward. It shouldn't be, Hey, I don't

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Speaker 2: like this person, so let me find a way to

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Speaker 2: interpret in bad faith the words on this page so

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Speaker 2: that I can put someone in prison and pretend that

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Speaker 2: this is somehow justice. That is what they're clearly doing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, when they're talking about the law at issue here,

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Speaker 2: it was not meant to be used against people like

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Speaker 2: the Jan six protesters, rioters, whatever you want. Yes, it

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Speaker 2: was not meant for that purpose. So extending it to

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Speaker 2: that purpose should be something that prosecutors are very slow

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Speaker 2: to do. But Man, I actually the Conrad Black thing,

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Speaker 2: I really we should dig that up a little bit, Clay.

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Speaker 2: I got to go back and read. It was a

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Speaker 2: long time ago. I mean, it was over a death.

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Speaker 2: I know the name, but I don't remember the particulars

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Speaker 2: of that case. It was one. When you read what

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Speaker 2: they did to Conrad Black, it was they basically said

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Speaker 2: that they didn't like the way he was running his

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Speaker 2: company and therefore he was guilty of honest services fraud.

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Speaker 2: It was one of the original take you know, put

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Speaker 2: out a political hit on a conservative media person, one

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Speaker 2: of the original instances of that. So let me let

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Speaker 2: me dig into it a bit because I think it

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Speaker 2: might illuminate some of what we're seeing right now. But

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Speaker 2: it was a sham what they did to that guy,

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Speaker 2: and I.

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Speaker 1: Don't want to read on it now that you brought

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Speaker 1: it up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we cut through the noise and the

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Speaker 2: nonsen sense coming from the mainstream media and spend as

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Speaker 2: much time sharing the truths as we can, especially truths

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Speaker 2: that no one else is gonna tell you. And when

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Speaker 2: it comes to the stock market, which can feel very opaque,

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Speaker 2: that's what Mark Chakin does. He cuts through the noise

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Speaker 2: and the nonsense. Mark worked on Wall Street for fifty years.

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Speaker 2: God's got a lot of experience and he even invented

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Speaker 2: three new indices for the NASDAC and he's predicted some

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Speaker 2: of the biggest market shifts of the past decade, including

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Speaker 2: the recent focus on AI stocks. Mark says many Americans

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Speaker 2: are about to miss out on a critical turning point

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Speaker 2: in this AI frenzy. He's calling it a new dawn

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Speaker 2: for US stocks and predicts dozens of specific companies will

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Speaker 2: be impacted in just the next ninety days, which is

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Speaker 2: why Mark has agreed to share one of his favorite

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Speaker 2: That's twenty twenty four aistock dot Com paid for by

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Speaker 2: Shakin Analytics, Play and Buck. Here we're joined by our

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Speaker 2: friend Julie Kelly. Please check out her substack declassified with

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Speaker 2: Julie Kelly and Julie appreciate you being with us. Let's

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Speaker 2: dive right into it. Fisher v. United States Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: heard oral arguments today. Before we get into where you

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Speaker 2: think the judges are going. Judges are going, can you

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Speaker 2: just give us background as to what's at issue here

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Speaker 2: and why it's such a big deal, not just for

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Speaker 2: Trump but for a lot of j six defendants.

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Speaker 3: Right. So, this relates to the government's use DOJ's use

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Speaker 3: of fifteen twelve C two obstruction of an official preceding statute.

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Speaker 3: This was passed in the wake aftermath of the en

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Speaker 3: Run Arthur Anderson scandal. It has to do with evidence

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Speaker 3: tampering or document shredding as we saw in that case.

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Speaker 3: What the DOJ has done for the first time ever

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Speaker 3: is weaponize that statute criminalized political dissent and charge now

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Speaker 3: roughly three hundred and fifty January sixth protesters with this

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Speaker 3: felony offense, punishable by up to twenty years in prison. It, finally,

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Speaker 3: three years later, has made it to the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: and oral arguments. Joseph Fisher was one of these defendants charged.

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Speaker 3: The District Court Judge Carl Nichols is the only one

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Speaker 3: who dismissed this count against him, and the DOJ appealed that,

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Speaker 3: which is how now we got to the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: oral arguments today.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Julie, I listened to part of this. I saw

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Speaker 1: the questions. I wasn't able to listen to every minute

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Speaker 1: like you were, because you were inside of this courtroom.

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Speaker 1: But I have been in the Supreme Court before and

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Speaker 1: been able to forecast by watching and listening and seeing

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Speaker 1: body language and everything else what I thought was likely

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Speaker 1: based on what I saw, I see this as a

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Speaker 1: six ' to three at worst win that would strike

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Speaker 1: down the use of these statutes. Do you agree or

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Speaker 1: disagree you with that? How would you assess your read

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Speaker 1: of the justices questions and where their opinions may lie

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Speaker 1: as a result. So just to.

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Speaker 3: Clarify, I wasn't in the courtroom today. I know that's okay. Fortunately,

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Speaker 3: you can cover all of these proceedings on the Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court website and also c SPAN, and it's just easier

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Speaker 3: to do it that way. I will tell you I

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Speaker 3: was a little worried, I think, and disappointed at first

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Speaker 3: with Fisher's attorney's presentation. I didn't think it was as

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Speaker 3: strong as it needed to be, and the questions were

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Speaker 3: tough as to the two different parts of the statute

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Speaker 3: that are now in question. But I sort of agree

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Speaker 3: it could be six three, it might be five to four.

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Speaker 3: Amy Cony Barrett again seemed a little bit unclear as

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Speaker 3: to her position, which might be fine. But look the

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Speaker 3: idea that you can take an entire code of the

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Speaker 3: of the US Criminal Code fifteen twelve, which only has

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Speaker 3: to do with campering with evidence or witnesses in judicial proceedings,

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Speaker 3: and clip out this sub section and set this aside

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Speaker 3: from everything else to make it sound that official proceeding

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Speaker 3: which is used throughout fifteen twelve, meaning a judicial proceeding

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Speaker 3: not a function of Congress to carve that out and

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Speaker 3: not only now take the novel approach of using it

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Speaker 3: to congressional proceedings, but of course only apply it to

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Speaker 3: those people involved in the events of January sixth, which,

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Speaker 3: as you guys know, this became quite clear during the

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Speaker 3: discussion today.

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Speaker 2: Actually, Julie, can we jump in here real quick because

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Speaker 2: we want to play for everybody hear Supreme Court Justice Gorsic,

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Speaker 2: this is cut twenty eight dealing with exactly what you're

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Speaker 2: talking about, which is, oh so only in this congressional instance.

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Speaker 2: Is obstruction a problem play.

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Speaker 4: It would a sit in that disrupts a trial or

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Speaker 4: access to a federal courthouse qualify, would a heckler in

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Speaker 4: today's audience qualify? Or at the State of the Union address,

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Speaker 4: would pulling a fire alarm before a vote qualify? For

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Speaker 4: twenty years in federal prison.

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Speaker 5: The Actus rays does require obstruction, which we understand to

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Speaker 5: be a meaningful interference. We'd also have to be able

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Speaker 5: to prove that they acted corruptly, and the sets a

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Speaker 5: stringent men's raya. It's not even just the mere intent

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Speaker 5: to obstruct. We have to show that also, but we

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Speaker 5: have to show that they had corrupt intent in acting

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Speaker 5: in that way.

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Speaker 4: Most SUSS have disrupted roadtests that actually obstructs and impedes,

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Speaker 4: and an official proceeding for an indefinite period would not

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Speaker 4: be covered.

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Speaker 5: Not necessarily. We would just have to have the evidence

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Speaker 5: of intent, and that's a.

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Speaker 4: They intend to do it, all right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think he knuked their whole argument here.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how they get around this. There's absolutely

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Speaker 2: no legal basis that he's saying, Oh, well, corrupt men's

436
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: ray or something. Yeah, they're obstructing, they want obstruct and

437
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 2: they're obstructing. Really, it seems to me, July what she's

438
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 2: saying is, well, if you know it's climate change protesters,

439
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 2: we like them, so we're not going to throw them

440
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 2: in prison for twenty years.

441
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 3: That's exactly what she was saying. And I'll take this

442
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 3: a step first. Or I just emailed last week the

443
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 3: spokeswoman for the DCUs Attorney's office, the federal prosecutor handling

444
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 3: now fourteen hundred plus JAY six cases, and I asked her,

445
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 3: do you have any of the pro Palestinian anti Israel

446
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 3: demonstrators who have done the same sort of conduct over

447
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 3: the past six months, especially in Washington, DC and unlawfully

448
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 3: entering capital buildings and disrupting Senate hearings. Have they faced

449
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 3: any federal charges including obstruction of an official proceeding? And

450
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 3: she told me no, that all of these cases are

451
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 3: being handled by the local DC prosecutor, which means they

452
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 3: will be local offenses. So I was a little surprised

453
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 3: that Elizabeth Preligor was not better prepared to answer the

454
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 3: selective prosecution angle of fifteen twelve c. Two and the

455
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 3: potential slippery which is a justice that seems concerned about

456
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 3: that if you carved this out and turn this into

457
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 3: a felony punishable by twenty years up to prison for

458
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 3: someone screaming during a proceeding of the Supreme Court or

459
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 3: a Senate confirmation hearing or anything we've seen especially the

460
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 3: past six months. But she's saying, oh, no, that won't apply,

461
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 3: and they're asking, well why not, Well, I just don't

462
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 3: think it will. That's okay, satisfy the inquiring minds of

463
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 3: the justices.

464
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: Julie, as always, you're doing an incredible job covering this,

465
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 1: and I have to give you credit. Years ago you

466
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: started raising this as a potential issue, and I think

467
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people shot you down with, oh, there's

468
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: never going to be any impact on this, And now

469
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: it seems likely that the Supreme Court is going to

470
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: strike down I think prosecutions under this statute. If we

471
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: are correct about that, and in June the Supreme Court

472
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: issues an opinion you said maybe five four six three.

473
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: I think you would have read that it's likely that

474
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: they are going to strike it down. What is the

475
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: impact then? Where do we go from there?

476
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for saying that. That's why today was

477
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 3: so gratifying, because I have been covering this for over

478
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: three years and hearing from more importantly the defendants and

479
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 3: their families and what this obstruction felony charge has destroyed

480
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 3: their lives and families and bankrupted them. So what it

481
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 3: will mean for them. They will get to go back

482
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 3: and say that the Supreme Court has reversed the doj

483
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 3: Matthew Graves, the DCUs attorney, and seventeen judges on the

484
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 3: DC District and Circuit courts who ouse held discount even

485
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: when they knew understood how vague it was, how broad

486
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: it was, how selectively it has been applied, and the

487
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: slippery slope that it creates these defendants now will get

488
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: long awaited exoneration and hopefully they you know, they will

489
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 3: have this charge reversed, they will be released from prison,

490
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: they'll have the charge drop, they won't face prison time.

491
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: And this will represent a huge black eye to the

492
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 3: DC Federal court system and the US Attorney's Office in

493
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 3: DC and d OJ for abusing this law to yes

494
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: create a set of political prisoners who only have been

495
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: subjected to the sellingies when no one else has and

496
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 3: is Elizabeth Piliguar said today, no one else will be

497
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 3: just j sixers.

498
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: Julie, how does it apply to Trump? So we know

499
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: that they're trying to still rush through this case. I

500
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: believe this would knock in theory two of the four

501
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: charges that Jack Smith is trying to bring against Trump

502
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: out of the contemplation, Right, what would that mean as

503
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: you see it for that trial in the event that

504
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,239
Speaker 1: we're right and this ruling comes down, because to make

505
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: it like kind of Trump specific I believe I'm correct

506
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: that two of the four charges against Trump for January

507
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: sixth related charges in DC all are these aspects that

508
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: are being examined.

509
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 3: You're exactly right, So this has great jeopardy to jectsimass

510
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 3: criminal indictment in Washington against Donald Trump, which of course

511
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 3: is now and definitely postponed until the Supreme Court renders

512
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 3: an opinion on presidential immunity. Those hearings are next Thursday,

513
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: by the way, for people who want to tune in.

514
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: But this does jeopardize his indictment, and it should if

515
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court comes back, and they need to very

516
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 3: clearly say, any congressional proceeding, including the events of January sixth,

517
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 3: does not apply to the meaning of official proceeding in

518
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 3: the entirety of fifteen twelve, including fifteen twelve C one

519
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: and C two. And this has to do with destruction

520
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 3: of evidence, evidence, impairment, document threading, et cetera. So if

521
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 3: they come back and they say the January sixth is

522
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 3: not an official proceeding as it leads to fifteen twelve,

523
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: then I don't see how x Smith continues to keep

524
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 3: those two counts in his four account indictment. There are

525
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 3: other ways that Supreme Court could hedge and protect within

526
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 3: Jacksmith's indictment. You heard a little bit of Amy Cony

527
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 3: Barrett which made me nervous, sort of reiterating jack Smith

528
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: talking points that the electoral certificates represent a document or

529
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 3: record in an official proceeding, so hopefully the court will

530
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: come back with a strong resolution to that as well.

531
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: But this will be also I should have added Special

532
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: Council Jacksmith and his team of the Black Eye to

533
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 3: him as well for bringing such a vague, untested statute

534
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 3: and a presidential unprecedented criminal indictment against Donald Trump.

535
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: Julie Kelly declassified on substack. Please subscribe to it. Julie,

536
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: we'll be talking to you a lot between now on

537
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: the election. Thanks for being here.

538
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,239
Speaker 3: Thanks, guys really appreciate it.

539
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: She really is doing fabulous work.

540
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 4: Book.

541
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 1: If anybody's out there and wants to keep their eyes

542
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: on all of these cases, I don't know of anybody

543
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: that's working harder and giving more interesting takes than Julie.

544
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,680
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Speaker 1: and Buck. I don't in the same way, Buck, I'm

561
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: curious how you would analyze this when the Supreme Court

562
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: came out nine to oh and said, hey, you can't,

563
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: you can't take Trump off the ballot Colorado, and that

564
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: obviously killed the attempts to take him off the ballot

565
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: in Maine and anywhere else in the country. I think

566
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: they tried to do it in Illinois as well, and

567
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: there were a lot of left wingers out there that

568
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: had been telling their audiences, Oh, this is very legitimate, man,

569
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: this is a really strong opinion, then you get slapped

570
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: down nine. Oh, if, as I think is likely, Buck,

571
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court comes out and says, hey, these January

572
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: sixth political prosecutions have been impermissible, you could say even

573
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: illegal under the law. How are all those people going

574
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: to respond who'd been saying that anybody who argued these

575
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: jan six cases were illegitimate and that the people were

576
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: being unfairly prosper acut going to be able to sit

577
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: down and talk to their audiences again. I guess they'll

578
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: probably just say the Supreme Court is corrupt. But there

579
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: are a lot of l's getting stacked here for left

580
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: wing liberal interpretations of what the Court is gonna do.

581
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: I see two things with this. One is, unfortunately, the

582
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: anti Trump audience in America will forgive any any lie,

583
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 2: any transgression, any amount of bull crap, as long as

584
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: it was intended to hurt Trump.

585
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:31,479
Speaker 3: Right.

586
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: So it doesn't matter if you say, oh my, look

587
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 2: look at Rachel Madaw with the taxes. Right, if you

588
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: say we are thirty days from me exposing that Donald

589
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: Trump is actually a lizard person, I'm gonna pull his

590
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: mask off. You're gonna see he's actually a lizard. He's

591
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: got the little fork tongue, the whole thing. And thirty

592
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: days passes, and sure enough you don't have the goods.

593
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: They don't get mad. They just say, okay, well, you're

594
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 2: trying to take down Trump, right, it's part of the mania,

595
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: it's part of I think the the disorder that people

596
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: have of anti Trump isn't that it becomes something that

597
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 2: is always self justifying. So that's that's one piece of it. Right,

598
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: as long as you're trying to hurt Trump, they'll forgive

599
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 2: you for anything. If they what he forgive is even

600
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 2: the right word, that's fine. Just as long as anti Trump,

601
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: they're on board, even if you over promise and underdelivered,

602
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: because look at Russia collusion. For four years, everybody who

603
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: was involved as a Democrat in Russia collusion, even your

604
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 2: buddy Eric Swowall, they all got, you know, elevated effectively

605
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: by the Democrat Party. That's part one, and then just

606
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: part two real quick. I mentioned this in the first hour.

607
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: If what Trump did was so bad and so clearly illegal,

608
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have to keep coming concocting novel and illegitimate

609
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: legal theories to get him. You know, it'd be pretty straightforward,

610
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: he did X, we prove why Z is the result? Instead,

611
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 2: it's always, well, if you look at this and you

612
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: talk about that, and you know, presto, it's always a

613
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: magic trick to prove Trump guilty of something when it

614
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: should be ironclad, and it's the opposite of that.

615
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: We come back at the top of the third hour.

616
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to play a clip Stephen A. Smith basically

617
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: addressed this, and I thought it was somewhat interesting because

618
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: I don't see him as a particularly partisan guy. But

619
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: one of the questions we've been asking from the get

620
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: go is how is this going to this case in

621
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: New York City in particular, going to be received in

622
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: a general sense, And we talked about and will reinforce.

623
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: Most people are not actually going to be following this

624
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: minute by minute trial as many of you are going to.

625
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: You're super plugged in, you're engaged politically. Most people don't

626
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: do that. They just kind of have a generalized sense

627
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: about Trump and what is being attempted to do, what

628
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: they're trying to do to him. I think what you

629
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: just hit on, Buck, and what I think we're going

630
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: to play for you at the top of the third

631
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: hour is a lot of people just see this as

632
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: a panic because if Trump was really so bad, why

633
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: can't you just beat them in an election? If Trump

634
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: is such a uniquely hitlarian figure, why can't you just

635
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: line up, go head to head against him and beat him.

636
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: And there are more pulls out of the swing states,

637
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: and Trump is up in six of them, and I

638
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: think there is an increasing panic. Democrats never thought that

639
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: we would be here. They didn't think we'd be here

640
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: in mid April, before the November election, with Trump leading

641
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: in many of the swing states. They never thought they

642
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: would be here, and that's going to lead them, I think,

643
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: to start to make more irrational decisions. You know how

644
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: when a panic sets in a lot of times, you

645
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: don't make the best decision for your side because you're

646
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: allowing emotion and fear to govern the choices that you make.

647
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: I think Democrats are starting to get there. I think

648
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: they know that they've hit an iceberg and they're seeing

649
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: the Titanic take on water the SS Biden and I

650
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: don't think they have a good game plan right now.

651
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: This is my concern is that they're going to get

652
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Speaker 2: increasingly erratic, vicious, and desperate as this election gets closer

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Speaker 2: because I'll be honest, I'm surprised at how resoundingly their

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Speaker 2: anti Trump lawfair has backfired thus far. That could change,

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Speaker 2: It doesn't look like it will anytime sooner. If it

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Speaker 2: doesn't play, they're going to be beyond pull out all

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Speaker 2: the stops. What comes next? Great question, We'll talk about

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Speaker 2: it and we come back.

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Speaker 1: Final hour, two day editions