Speaker 1: That's why I'm so glad you're tuning this podcast in
Speaker 1: general as well, because I think as you get more successful,
Speaker 1: you start to think that you can only rely on
Speaker 1: other successful people for these lessons in life. And that's
Speaker 1: such bs because the best lessons always come from those. Again,
Speaker 1: the normal people who names are not in light, so okay,
Speaker 1: we don't know who they are, and I don't think
Speaker 1: you can stress that or not.
Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in
Speaker 2: Inner City Memphis. And the last part it somehow led
Speaker 2: to an oscar for the film about our team. That
Speaker 2: movie's called Undefeated. Y'all. I just believe our country's problems
Speaker 2: are just not ever going to be solved by a
Speaker 2: bunch of fancy people and nice clothes using big words
Speaker 2: that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather
Speaker 2: by us, an army of normal folks. That's just you
Speaker 2: and me seeing an area of need and deciding, hey,
Speaker 2: maybe I can help. And today we have a new
Speaker 2: edition of our special series Supporting Greatness, where we typically
Speaker 2: interview those who've achieved public greatness about their own army
Speaker 2: of normal folks that supported them and shaped their lives.
Speaker 2: But this time we're interviewing award winning sportswriter Michael Rkoush,
Speaker 2: who's written books with Scottie Pippen, Sugar Ray, Leonard, Phil Jackson,
Speaker 2: and many others. In his most recent book about the
Speaker 2: top one hundred golfers in history, Michael will celebrate each
Speaker 2: of their army of normal folks that supported them to
Speaker 2: make it on this list. I cannot wait for you
Speaker 2: meet write after these brief messages from our general sponsors.
Speaker 2: Michael Arkoush, Welcome to Memphis.
Speaker 1: It's great to be here, is it? Oh man? I
Speaker 1: love it last time ten years ago.
Speaker 2: That's crazy that it's been ten years since you've been
Speaker 2: in Memphis, given that you've spent about ten months here
Speaker 2: during that ten year period ago. Yeah, it does everybody.
Speaker 2: Michael Arkoush first and foremost is my friend. But he's
Speaker 2: certainly not known for being my friend. What he is
Speaker 2: is an incredible writer. He's a sportswriter. I think you've
Speaker 2: written for golf, DIJA. What are the magazines?
Speaker 1: Golf Magazine, Golf digest golf world. Yeah, and wrote the
Speaker 1: Only Times, New York Times, Washing Post, yeah.
Speaker 2: Washing and Post pretty much everybody yeah yeah. And he
Speaker 2: is also an author of Sugar Ray Leonard's book, and
Speaker 2: Phil Jackson's book and Scottie Pippens book and Ray Allen's book.
Speaker 2: And Kurt menifies, Yes, I did a book with him. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: see I remember that. You got it. You know me
Speaker 2: more than I do some other books. I don't know
Speaker 2: what are some other books.
Speaker 1: I did a book about golfers and their fathers who
Speaker 1: inspired them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of thing I do.
Speaker 1: The first book I did sixty years of usc UCLA.
Speaker 2: Football, which who wants to read that?
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's that's what we found out.
Speaker 2: Yes, didn't sell too well. So Mike Arkush is my friend.
Speaker 2: He's a gifted writer, and he has just released his
Speaker 2: latest piece of work called The Golf one hundred, a
Speaker 2: subtitled A spirited ranking of the greatest players of all Time.
Speaker 2: And it is a book that is to elicit argument,
Speaker 2: but we're going to get into that later. I also
Speaker 2: want to say that as impressive as Michael's resume is
Speaker 2: that paul Etta, his wife, is the far superior of
Speaker 2: the couple.
Speaker 1: No question about it. What's your line about coverage?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you outkicked your coverage if you absolutely kich you.
Speaker 2: Pauletta has worked in the Foreign Service in places like
Speaker 2: Russia and Ukraine and DC and is an incredible woman
Speaker 2: in her own right, and you way out kicked your consolutely.
Speaker 2: So that's who Michael is in a professional personal sense.
Speaker 2: As a snapshot before we get started, I want you
Speaker 2: guys know if you're here at the end, we will
Speaker 2: have a Q and A at the end of this
Speaker 2: for any of you who want to ask any questions
Speaker 2: of Michael. We are today in the Memphis Listening Lab
Speaker 2: and the cool Crosstown Concourse and Memphis, and Michael flew
Speaker 2: in last night, I guess from Santa Barbarad and yep, yep,
Speaker 2: flew in last night to join us. Before we get
Speaker 2: going for those listening, we will have a live in
Speaker 2: on May eighth. That will be our next live interview.
Speaker 2: It is going to be with nine to eleven firefighter
Speaker 2: Tim Brown. Tim saved fifteen lives on that faithful day
Speaker 2: while losing one hundred friends. His story is unbelievable. He
Speaker 2: doesn't see himself as a hero and what he has
Speaker 2: to teach us about the power of an army of
Speaker 2: normal folks is phenomenal. So May eighth at six point
Speaker 2: thirty at grind City Brewing. To learn more, you can
Speaker 2: RSVP and find out more at one hundred friends dot
Speaker 2: event bright dot com. I hope you will join us,
Speaker 2: and I hope those listening will join us. So we've
Speaker 2: set up who Michael is, but we're not interviewing Michael
Speaker 2: for an army of normal folks really, because he's kind
Speaker 2: of reached some heights that most normal folks don't. However,
Speaker 2: as many of you longtime listeners will know, on occasion
Speaker 2: we do a special segment called Supporting Greatness, and the
Speaker 2: Supporting Greatness series is where we interview folks who've achieved
Speaker 2: public greatness, but we interview them about their own army
Speaker 2: of normal folks who supported, inspired and helped shape their lives,
Speaker 2: so that we get to celebrate the army of normal
Speaker 2: folks in people who've reached greatness who we don't know about.
Speaker 2: For this series, we've interviewed people like Mike Row from
Speaker 2: Dirty Jobs, the author of The Shack, Paul Young, and
Speaker 2: Medal of Honor recipients to Coda Meyer and David Bellavia.
Speaker 2: So you were in high company. In Michael's case, we're
Speaker 2: interviewing him. We're going to talk a couple about a
Speaker 2: couple of people in your life. And then also interestingly,
Speaker 2: as a guy who's done so much biographical work and
Speaker 2: done so much content, but we're going to let Michael
Speaker 2: share with us stories about normal folks in the lives
Speaker 2: of people who supported greatness, like folks like Sugarray Leonard
Speaker 2: and Scottie Pippen. And then we're going to get on
Speaker 2: some of these golfers that have some extraordinary stories in
Speaker 2: the golf one hundred and actually how you learn those stories.
Speaker 2: So that's it. So to start us, kind of tell
Speaker 2: us where you came from and how you grew up.
Speaker 1: Albany, New York, the capital of the Great State of
Speaker 1: New York, was a great place to grow up. Close
Speaker 1: to New York City and close to Boston would shape
Speaker 1: me and who I am really is. My father died
Speaker 1: when I was young. I was only twelve years old.
Speaker 1: He died of Louke Garrit's disease. It's a really horrible
Speaker 1: time in our life, and I'll talk about it later.
Speaker 1: But my uncle and aunt introduced me to golf. It
Speaker 1: was this way to getting away from the tragedy of
Speaker 1: what happened at home. It was incredibly helpful. But the
Speaker 1: influence on my life, the early influence of my life,
Speaker 1: is a guy named doctor Stephen Burke. He's a history
Speaker 1: professor at Union College and connected in New York. And
Speaker 1: he taught me the value and the beauty of history
Speaker 1: in such a profound way. I mean, I was not
Speaker 1: a great student before then. I was a terrible student.
Speaker 1: Am I saying not a great student?
Speaker 2: I was awful?
Speaker 1: But he he made me care about learning. He made
Speaker 1: me passionate about it to an unbel unbelievable degree. And
Speaker 1: I remember the first time I got an a minus
Speaker 1: in his exam, I felt like I had conquered the world.
Speaker 1: And he taught me European history, Russian history, Jewish history,
Speaker 1: and this is my high school. He was only thirty
Speaker 1: six years old at the time. He's now eighty four,
Speaker 1: and I still consult with him, talk to him once
Speaker 1: or twice every couple months or so, let's say, and
Speaker 1: we talk about the election, we talk about everything going
Speaker 1: on in America. Is an unbelievable resource. And I'm just
Speaker 1: so lucky. I've had somebody like that in my life,
Speaker 1: somebody who was an authority on his subject like that
Speaker 1: who made me care. And it extended way beyond. It
Speaker 1: extended to sports history, and it is every aspect of
Speaker 1: history and knowledge. And I never thought that knowledge was
Speaker 1: such a beautiful thing to obtain, as when when I
Speaker 1: studied with him. He remember at my high school graduation,
Speaker 1: he stood up there and he gave the speech and
Speaker 1: he said, I don't have a panacea for all of you.
Speaker 1: I don't have a cure. I can't give you the
Speaker 1: key to success in life. But what he didn't realize
Speaker 1: that he had given me the key already, and I've
Speaker 1: held on to that forever. So I'm grateful to him.
Speaker 2: Would you be a writer for one for him?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I know that when I was in
Speaker 1: school in sixth or seventh grade, I used to have
Speaker 1: a textbook and in between me and the textbook was
Speaker 1: a notebook, and the teacher thought I was taking notes
Speaker 1: when I was writing stories.
Speaker 2: So it's always been.
Speaker 1: It's always been there. It's always been part of my sickness.
Speaker 1: And I wrote a story once about a guy who
Speaker 1: was a fighter against a Boxer. It was sort of
Speaker 1: a preview of the book I would write forty years later,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know it at the time see about
Speaker 1: Ali and Frasier. But I had all these I don't
Speaker 1: know what happened to those notes. I think if they
Speaker 1: went the way of my baseball cards, I.
Speaker 2: Think it could be argued then because of the perspective
Speaker 2: of history and what he taught you, you wouldn't have
Speaker 2: done nearly as an.
Speaker 1: Effective Absolutely, absolutely, I know.
Speaker 2: From personal experience with you, because you're irritating as hell
Speaker 2: and proud of it. Yeah, you will research to the
Speaker 2: nth degree before you put a word in a book.
Speaker 1: Correct.
Speaker 2: That has to come from.
Speaker 1: Him, Yeah, Yeah, it does because there were so many
Speaker 1: facts that we learned from him about all history.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: If I did not have it right factually, I mean
Speaker 1: I was not getting an aa B. I was getting
Speaker 1: much worse.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. Who else?
Speaker 1: Okay. One of the person I only spoke to once
Speaker 1: in my entire life, really for two hours, a guy
Speaker 1: named David Halberstam. Maybe you recognize his great author is
Speaker 1: God powers it be best in the brightest all these
Speaker 1: was a correspondent for The New York Times. Vietnam I mean,
Speaker 1: I think to the point that Kennedy tried to get
Speaker 1: him out of the job because he was so on
Speaker 1: top of what was going on with our failure in Vietnam.
Speaker 1: Really even early on, and my editor at the time
Speaker 1: I was working on a book with Phil Jackson. My
Speaker 1: editor said, would you like to talk to Halberstam? Are
Speaker 1: you kidding me? This is like one of my heroes.
Speaker 1: And we were on the phone for two hours and
Speaker 1: he told me the whole secret to writing books, which
Speaker 1: was when you're writing a magazine article or a newspaper article,
Speaker 1: in your mind all the time is how do I
Speaker 1: boil this down? How do I go from thousand words
Speaker 1: to seven hundred words and six words? How do I
Speaker 1: keep it down? In books, it's like an according just
Speaker 1: keep expanding, and the idea that you could write anything
Speaker 1: you want, just keep it longer, just because you can
Speaker 1: always edit later. In the Ali Fraser book, I did
Speaker 1: a chapter on Jerry Corey. I don't know how many
Speaker 1: you remember the fighter Jerry Corey. Muhammad Ali's first fight
Speaker 1: after he was suspended was against Jerry Corey in Atlanta
Speaker 1: in October nineteen seventy. I went up in Bakersfield, California,
Speaker 1: and I met the Corey family, spent like a whole
Speaker 1: day with them, came back. I spent the next two
Speaker 1: weeks and I wrote fifteen thousand words about the Corey family. Okay,
Speaker 1: what the heck was I doing? This is a book
Speaker 1: about Ali and Fraser. It's supposed to be like sixty
Speaker 1: or seventy thousand words, and I'm writing fifteen thousand words.
Speaker 1: I couldn't stop myself. Seriously, I just was like some
Speaker 1: kind of tick or something. I just had to keep going.
Speaker 1: Eventually I turned it down to about three thousand. And
Speaker 1: when you're sitting there a computer and cutting down twelve
Speaker 1: eleven twelve thousand words is not easy. But to get
Speaker 1: to what those three thousand words are, I think you
Speaker 1: sometimes have to write fifteen thousand. The key to writing
Speaker 1: is not the writing, it's the rewriting.
Speaker 2: And he taught you that.
Speaker 1: He told me the importance of that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So when you think about supporting the greatness of the
Speaker 2: works that you've put out over the last forty years,
Speaker 2: a simple high school teacher and a conversation you had
Speaker 2: with a guy on the home for two hours, Yeah,
Speaker 2: which speaks to the power of an army in Normal
Speaker 2: Folks maybe you don't even think of and those people
Speaker 2: probably do. You think those people even have any idea
Speaker 2: of the depth of effect they know?
Speaker 1: And I'm told I told doctor Burke, I have probably
Speaker 1: fifty times in the nearly half centuries since then. Boggo's
Speaker 1: my mind about his influence. I don't know if these
Speaker 1: people him or others really take that in because you
Speaker 1: can hear that line, but what does it really mean?
Speaker 1: They're there as teachers I think somewhere a registers, I
Speaker 1: hope because I know other people similarly affected by him
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: It's phenomenal. And now a few messages from our gener sponsors.
Speaker 2: But first I hope you'll consider signing up to join
Speaker 2: the army at normal Folks dot us. By signing up,
Speaker 2: you'll receive a weekly email with short episodes summaries in
Speaker 2: case you happen to miss an episode or if you
Speaker 2: prefer reading about our incredible guess. We'll be right back. Okay,
Speaker 2: so let's go to some of your past work before
Speaker 2: we go to some really interesting stuff about some of
Speaker 2: the people we've most recently wrote about. But Alex did
Speaker 2: some research and he talked about sugar Ray Leonard and
Speaker 2: Dave Jacobs, the trainer he had as a kid that
Speaker 2: I think was nicknamed Jake. There was a volunteer at
Speaker 2: a local recreation center. And as phenomenal as Sugar Ray
Speaker 2: Leonard is, it feels like Sugar Ray Leonard doesn't become
Speaker 2: Sugar Ray Leonard without Dave Jacobs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's actually and there's three. There's three people. These
Speaker 1: two others besides Gave at that time that had such
Speaker 1: a profound influence on him. I just want to tell
Speaker 1: you Dave was the city the amateur athletic featherweight title
Speaker 1: champion in forty nine, Turnpro nineteen forty nine, won a
Speaker 1: bunch of bouts, but boxing he realized was never going
Speaker 1: to pay the bills, so he began volunteering at the
Speaker 1: rec center, became the coach and cheers leader. And what
Speaker 1: he used to do he used to bring Ray and
Speaker 1: a bunch of others over to his house to show
Speaker 1: filters of the greats like Jersey Joe Walcott and Willie
Speaker 1: Pep and Sugar Ray Robinson. So Ray learned who great
Speaker 1: fighters were through Dave Jacobs. So that was one person.
Speaker 1: Another guy named peppi Korea and I want to read this.
Speaker 1: This is really interesting because just because we're in Memphis,
Speaker 1: I'm going to read from the book. I constantly marveled
Speaker 1: at his ability to recite verbatim doctor King's I have
Speaker 1: a dream speech with remarkable passion in each syllable, and
Speaker 1: that had a big influence on Ray understanding doctor King.
Speaker 1: I understand understanding who he was as an African Americans.
Speaker 1: So that's the second person at that point in Ray's life.
Speaker 1: Another guy was named jenks Morton, who had wanted to
Speaker 1: play in the NFL but wasn't good enough, started an
Speaker 1: insurance agency in the Washington area, and it was with Jake.
Speaker 1: With him, it wasn't the amount of push ups or
Speaker 1: sit ups or jumping rope. In his opinion, the only
Speaker 1: way to be among the best was to show more
Speaker 1: desire than your opponent. And that's what Ray learned. He
Speaker 1: just had an incredible desire and never stopped. He had
Speaker 1: these three people that nobody's really heard of or not
Speaker 1: many have heard of, and they formed the backbone of
Speaker 1: Ray's career.
Speaker 2: When one of the coolest things about what you do
Speaker 2: for a living is you get to spend time with
Speaker 2: these cool people. You get to spend time with Phil Jackson.
Speaker 2: You could just spend time with Scottie Pippen. You get
Speaker 2: access in a very intimate way with people because you're
Speaker 2: writing their stories, so you have to mine in to
Speaker 2: not only understand their stories, but oftentimes the why absolutely
Speaker 2: and the who behind their story. When when people like
Speaker 2: Sugar Ray are talking about Peppe Korea and James Morton
Speaker 2: and Dave Jacobs, does their affect change Do you see
Speaker 2: a level of reverence? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because no matter how famous they are, they haven't
Speaker 1: lost sight of who they were before they became famous.
Speaker 1: It's very important to be in touch with that. And
Speaker 1: we'll get the Scottie Pippen in a while too. It's
Speaker 1: same thing. They recognize why they're there, and they recognize
Speaker 1: the people that put them there. And there's not one
Speaker 1: person I've ever profiled and been around with not had
Speaker 1: that impact of a normalfolk person, There's no question about it.
Speaker 2: Which has to speak to all of you listening to
Speaker 2: our voice right now. You don't have to be famous,
Speaker 2: you don't have to be part of some massive organization,
Speaker 2: you don't have to start incredible five OHO one C
Speaker 2: three The interaction you have on a daily basis with
Speaker 2: somebody you may never you may you may have no
Speaker 2: idea the impact of the void that you're filling or
Speaker 2: the need that you're filling, and that may not manifest
Speaker 2: itself for fifteen, twenty thirty years later. But the point is,
Speaker 2: every single day we have an opportunity, as just normal
Speaker 2: folks when we see areas of need and fill them,
Speaker 2: when we see when we see want and desire and
Speaker 2: help satisfy it. Oftentimes the measure of our success may
Speaker 2: reveal itself decades later, but it doesn't make it any
Speaker 2: less profound.
Speaker 1: And I also think that's when people veer off too,
Speaker 1: is when they lose sight of that, when they lose
Speaker 1: what do you mean by that? What I mean is
Speaker 1: when they become when they become maybe full of themselves,
Speaker 1: maybe become too arrogant, go off into different directions, was
Speaker 1: that discipline, lose that character that formed who they were,
Speaker 1: that's crucial. That that can be devastating. I've seen too
Speaker 1: many athletes who have just gone off the reservation because
Speaker 1: they have forgot the values and the normal people that
Speaker 1: helped put him their family, friends, coaches, et cetera.
Speaker 2: That's a good segue. Scottie Pippen talks with reverence about
Speaker 2: his mom and his brother. And his brother. For those
Speaker 2: who don't know, I think is a quadriplegic or paraplegic.
Speaker 2: His brother, I think got into a fight and didn't
Speaker 2: walk again. Is that correct?
Speaker 1: Well, I'll read. I'll tell you exactly what happened. He
Speaker 1: was in gym class and some guy just Scotty's brother.
Speaker 1: Scotty's brother, Ronnie was in gym class and Scotty was
Speaker 1: only three when it happened. Out of nowhere, this bully
Speaker 1: just delivered a sucker punch in the middle of his
Speaker 1: brother's back. Brother. His brother fell to the floor, unable
Speaker 1: to get up, and he sent the hospital. Everything went
Speaker 1: on and basically never really got that. We was able
Speaker 1: to do some things, but never got anywhere better. I
Speaker 1: want to read to something that Scotti wrote. He goes
Speaker 1: Ronnie had every right to give up to curse the
Speaker 1: fate he was handed. He didn't. He fought hard to
Speaker 1: build a protective, productive and happy life. I'm not the
Speaker 1: biggest success story in the Pippin family. He is, and.
Speaker 2: Everybody knows who Scottie Pippins and nobody knows who Ronnie is. Correct,
Speaker 2: But Ronnie's strength clearly provide an illustration to Scotty about
Speaker 2: how to be success.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And when I hear you talked about the change
Speaker 1: and the voice, I think a little bit about when
Speaker 1: they talk with the yeah, the effect, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just like the veil comes up. I mean, Scotty gets
Speaker 1: very emotional talking about ro You can see it. And
Speaker 1: whether it's about Ronnie or his mother, I'll get to
Speaker 1: that in a second, and it's like he's brought back
Speaker 1: to that moment right there with them.
Speaker 2: That. You know, that's interesting because you got the six',
Speaker 2: nine massive human being who's got how many championship? Rings six,
Speaker 2: six who's made millions and, millions who's really been on a.
Speaker 2: Pedestal it has to be interesting to watch all of
Speaker 2: that melt off of this mammoth human being and watch
Speaker 2: him get reminiscent and emotional and almost childlike when.
Speaker 1: Talking those moments are what makes writing books mean everything to,
Speaker 1: me because to see that somebody famous be somebody, real
Speaker 1: and to see them show emotion and understanding of their
Speaker 1: journey and what moves them away from so many athletes
Speaker 1: these days assume a certain PERSONA i don't even want
Speaker 1: to interview them, anymore because you can just tell the
Speaker 1: cliches are going to, come the. Distancing they don't relate to.
Speaker 1: You but when you spend time with someone or the
Speaker 1: course of a, book they get down into sort of
Speaker 1: down to earth with, you really telling you candid, things
Speaker 1: and they get. Vulnerable the key to a successful book
Speaker 1: is getting somebody to be.
Speaker 2: Vulnerable how seriously do you take the charge to make
Speaker 2: sure that vulnerability comes across the words to the. Reader
Speaker 2: what do you mean if you don't successfully write it
Speaker 2: in a way that the reader understands how how very
Speaker 2: real and vulnerable that, is then it's a.
Speaker 1: Miss, well you, know this is so weird because WHEN
Speaker 1: i write with somebody and take on their, voice sounds,
Speaker 1: crazy BUT i try to assume their. CARRIACTER i tried
Speaker 1: to feel Like i'm, them which can get too far at.
Speaker 1: Times BUT i try to take on the persona SO
Speaker 1: i in some WAY i tap into my own. Vulnerability
Speaker 1: so IF i can do, that THEN i can write
Speaker 1: in their, own their own words their. Vulnerability you get.
Speaker 1: Emotional oh, YEAH i mean one of the stories in
Speaker 1: The Sugar Ray lenar. Book i'm not sure how many
Speaker 1: are familiar with. It but he was sexually abused when
Speaker 1: he was, young, okay.
Speaker 2: AND i had no. Idea, yeah AND.
Speaker 1: I didn't know, that oh, yeah, yeah yeah. Yeah AND
Speaker 1: i didn't know about this for like the first four
Speaker 1: or five months we worked on the, book you, know
Speaker 1: and then one day he just told, me AND i
Speaker 1: remember leaving his house and driving about two blocks and
Speaker 1: parking and just. CRYING i was so moved by it
Speaker 1: because BECAUSE i also happened with you. TOO i, mean
Speaker 1: you feel like you have to develop this sense of
Speaker 1: ownership or. PROTECTING i, mean HERE'S i, am, this you,
Speaker 1: know relatively small guy dealing with these huge, athletes and
Speaker 1: YET i FEEL i have to assume the role of
Speaker 1: the protector because their words are going to be out,
Speaker 1: there they're going to be, assessed they're going to be, analyzed,
Speaker 1: reviewed AND i want to make sure they come across
Speaker 1: factual and fair and. Honest and SO i start to think, of,
Speaker 1: well what they say is they're going to be is
Speaker 1: how is it going to come? Across and they're not
Speaker 1: always so on top of how to protect, themselves believe
Speaker 1: it or. Not so that's one of my big.
Speaker 2: Jobs we'll be right.
Speaker 1: Back scotti's Mom scotty's. Mom this is another. Story it
Speaker 1: wasn't around. That it wasn't too long afterwards when When
Speaker 1: scotty's father was sitting on the sofa having dinner and
Speaker 1: then suddenly he just dropped his plate slump toward the
Speaker 1: edge of the. Sofa there was a deranged look in his.
Speaker 1: Eyes he was food coming out of his. Mouth he
Speaker 1: was having a stroke on the right side of his,
Speaker 1: body and from then on he would never be able
Speaker 1: to walk or really speak. Again he could say yes or,
Speaker 1: no but he really couldn't put together a full. Sense
Speaker 1: so think of it about, THIS i think Is Scottie pippens's.
Speaker 1: BACKGROUND a brother who has an, accident who can't, walk
Speaker 1: a father then who has a, stroke who can't.
Speaker 2: Walk he has a big, family and these are not
Speaker 2: wealthy people they're living and where In, Arkansas, Hamburg, arkansas And, Berg. Arkansas,
Speaker 2: no not wealthy.
Speaker 1: People so there was a lot of criticism over the
Speaker 1: time When The Last dance came, out the documentary That
Speaker 1: Michael jordan and the book did basically about The bulls
Speaker 1: and their, titles and there was. Criticism there has been
Speaker 1: criticism Of scotty for sort of his contract demands and
Speaker 1: how he viewed what he what he wanted from the
Speaker 1: bulls and there's AND i look at people and wanted to,
Speaker 1: say look at look what he went, Through look what
Speaker 1: he came. FROM i understand it. Totally so was. Mom,
Speaker 1: yeah so his mom was just. Unbelievable she just was
Speaker 1: always there for, him always there for her. Father she
Speaker 1: just knew how to show. STRENGTH i think he learned
Speaker 1: learned strength and she learned strength from her. Mother in,
Speaker 1: FACT i love. This the word on the street Was
Speaker 1: grandma could work hard as hard as any. Man perhaps
Speaker 1: it was from growing up in an Arwarin black folks
Speaker 1: in The south didn't complain about their. Fate they simply
Speaker 1: accepted whatever The Good lord gave them and did their
Speaker 1: best to improve their circumstances one day at a. Time
Speaker 1: and his, Mom scotty's mom grew up In louisiana picking
Speaker 1: cotton with her mama when she was a little, girl
Speaker 1: and from her he learned about the work. Ethic, basically.
Speaker 2: She was stricter with me than she was with my
Speaker 2: brothers and. Sisters they didn't have to go To sunday
Speaker 2: school in church LIKE i. DID i resented. It feeling is,
Speaker 2: THIS i was being punished by having to sing hymns
Speaker 2: and listen to SERMONS i didn't understand while my friends
Speaker 2: were out. Playing looking, BACK i couldn't be more. Grateful
Speaker 2: The lord is a powerful presence in my life today
Speaker 2: and that's because of my.
Speaker 1: Mom thank you for reading. That, yes, absolutely, yeah pretty.
Speaker 2: Phenomenal yeah. Yeah so as you go through you think
Speaker 2: About Sugar Ray, leonard you think about, you you think
Speaker 2: About Scottie, pippen all of these people who've reached these
Speaker 2: levels of. Greatness there's just no way the level of
Speaker 2: greatness they've attained don't happen without this army of normal
Speaker 2: folks in their lives that supported them along the.
Speaker 1: Way and that's Why i'm so glad you're turning this
Speaker 1: podcast in general as, well BECAUSE i think as you
Speaker 1: get more, successful you start to think that you can
Speaker 1: only rely on other successful people for these lessons in.
Speaker 1: Life and that's such bs because the best lessons always
Speaker 1: come from Those, again the normal, people who their names
Speaker 1: are not in Light so, okay we don't know who they,
Speaker 1: are AND i don't think you can stress that.
Speaker 2: Enough, basically now it's time to. Plug on top of
Speaker 2: What michael said don't you have some social media thing
Speaker 2: of words of wisdom from normal people or normal folks.
Speaker 2: Wisdom so On instagram we have a thing called normal
Speaker 2: Folks wisdom that our guests that say something wise that
Speaker 2: would be like a quote in a book if they're,
Speaker 2: famous he now posts them on social. Media, Right so
Speaker 2: anybody who wants to hear normal folks wisdom just.
Speaker 1: Go to what they often have better wisdom than the.
Speaker 2: Experts that's. It that's.
Speaker 1: GREAT i love.
Speaker 2: That it is. Great, okay so his latest, release and
Speaker 2: we are going to stay on the topic of supporting
Speaker 2: greatness with the, people some of the people in the.
Speaker 2: Book BUT i think it's important to set up the
Speaker 2: Book The golf one, hundred the spirited ranking of the
Speaker 2: greatest players of all. Time any time we, rank all
Speaker 2: my friends argue, about you, know is would you rather
Speaker 2: Have Michael jordan Or Lakers Kobe kobe or a Chem
Speaker 2: elaijuan Versus. SHACK i, mean sports fans throughout, history, regardless
Speaker 2: support always. Rank Was marino better than alway that the
Speaker 2: fact That marino doesn't have A Super bowl wing make
Speaker 2: him less important Than Terry. Bradshaw we always want to.
Speaker 2: Rank it's just the way we.
Speaker 1: Do lebron is the one more fitting Than kobe in that. Argument,
Speaker 1: yeah that's what you.
Speaker 2: Say we're arguing about. It so, then in your infinite,
Speaker 2: wisdom you go write a book that nobody's ever going
Speaker 2: to agree. WITH i love.
Speaker 1: IT i don't want people to agree with. ME i
Speaker 1: want people to. ARGUE i want people to present their. Case.
Speaker 2: Yeah so you go through over the course of three
Speaker 2: years and research thousands of. Golfers and one of the
Speaker 2: beautiful things about this book is you don't care if
Speaker 2: they're male or. Female, no thousands of golfers and you
Speaker 2: start ranking. Them and, then in True MICHAEL. R kush,
Speaker 2: fashion you're not just going to rank them and talk about.
Speaker 2: Them you want to go interview them and their. Families
Speaker 2: so it's not just a. Ranking each ranking of one
Speaker 2: hundred is a profile of these people where you go
Speaker 2: talk to them and study them and do the history
Speaker 2: that you learned from your teacher in high.
Speaker 1: School, yeah WHICH i think IF i kind of my,
Speaker 1: WAY i would never finish the. Book, actually you, KNOW.
Speaker 2: I think your publisher what you. Finish, yeah that's sort
Speaker 2: of the idea behind. It, yeah WHAT i find vastly.
Speaker 2: Interesting before we get into, people BECAUSE i want people
Speaker 2: to understand the work that went under those is you're
Speaker 2: not just talking about these people as if you read about,
Speaker 2: them you've actually interviewed them or their. Families, yes, yeah all,
Speaker 2: right but you also, SAID i don't want to be
Speaker 2: too arbitrary in my, ranking so you came up with a.
Speaker 2: System explain. That, okay all.
Speaker 1: Right first of, all in terms of the, research, YES
Speaker 1: i did not have a life in these three.
Speaker 2: Years.
Speaker 1: OKAY i went back AND i read through Every Golf
Speaker 1: dies issue since nineteen fifty. What, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: There read Every Golf dides issue for the last.
Speaker 1: That is now THAT i was on, YouTube AND i
Speaker 1: think there was a missing person report issued on me
Speaker 1: WHEN i went to, YouTube because BECAUSE i basically dived
Speaker 1: in and did not get. Out it's the rabbit hole
Speaker 1: of rabbit, HOLES i. Think AND i. READ i watched
Speaker 1: every single major TELECAST i could find of every television you,
Speaker 1: know tournament they've. Had SO i did. THAT i had
Speaker 1: one hundred, books at least friends of mine gave me
Speaker 1: books to go, through SO i, Did, hey you know
Speaker 1: what this fear. Was the fear was who DO i
Speaker 1: leave out? Here? Right so? Far the book's been now three.
Speaker 1: Weeks i've not heard from anyone not left. OUT i
Speaker 1: have heard this, morning you heard twice the same. Name,
Speaker 1: yeah that was a joke though The memphis radio hits
Speaker 1: he did this. Morning they both Where's John?
Speaker 2: Daily Where's John?
Speaker 1: Daily, NO i meant SOME i didn't Mean John. Dailey
Speaker 1: he's not a. Joke somebody. Else they mentioned that that
Speaker 1: person who plays with The, no, no, no nobody you've
Speaker 1: Heard John daily will get into.
Speaker 2: That, wait the ranking, first the, metric the, ranking all,
Speaker 2: right the, metrics the.
Speaker 1: Metrics two thousand points for every major, victory because majors
Speaker 1: are what comprised greatness in.
Speaker 2: Golf if anybody's watched the Documentary Full swing is a
Speaker 2: full swing that's been. Out, yeah you don't even have
Speaker 2: to be a golfer to get into, that but you
Speaker 2: can tell amongst the golfers. Majors is it? Today?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah four times a, year two thousand points for
Speaker 1: every major, victory five hundred per, second two fifty, third
Speaker 1: one hundred, fourth and fifty. FIFTH i also ordered three
Speaker 1: hundred points for every regular tour, victory BUT i didn't
Speaker 1: count if a guy finished third in The John Deere
Speaker 1: classic by shooting a sixty five On. Sunday to, me
Speaker 1: that's not about. GREATNESS i didn't count senior tour. Victories
Speaker 1: that's not about. GREATNESS i didn't count The Ryder cup
Speaker 1: because that came along much. Later and what about the
Speaker 1: players didn't get a chance to play in The Ryder.
Speaker 1: CUP i also gave bonus points to contribution to the,
Speaker 1: game impact on the, game and vrieting of other. Factors
Speaker 1: so that's the outlines of the metric. SYSTEM i have a,
Speaker 1: question by the, way one other. THING i took away
Speaker 1: points for players who had won a number of tour,
Speaker 1: victories but no majors you. TOOK i took await, points
Speaker 1: AND i thought to, Myself, yeah that feels, Right and
Speaker 1: it came Down my publisher kept telling, me AND i
Speaker 1: finally realized my, book my, rules in.
Speaker 2: My book By. Rules if you don't like, it write
Speaker 2: your own.
Speaker 1: Day. Yeah, ABSOLUTELY i spent nine months with. You, yes, SIR.
Speaker 2: I have to ask this, question uh, oh because it's
Speaker 2: not part of the METRIC u oh that you've. Described
Speaker 2: you are so big on honesty and integrity and. Character,
Speaker 2: yeah did you allow yourself to be dissuaded by horrible?
Speaker 1: Behavior not, really because then you're opening up a whole
Speaker 1: other series of. Problems, however in the chapter On Tiger,
Speaker 1: WOODS i did point out the, scandal AND i do
Speaker 1: believe that that whole thing takes away from some of his. Greatness, yes.
Speaker 2: And that concludes part one of my conversation With michael
Speaker 2: Ar kush and you don't want to miss part two
Speaker 2: that's now be able to listen. To, Together, guys we
Speaker 2: can change this country and it starts with. You i'll
Speaker 2: see you in part.
Speaker 1: Two look