WEBVTT - Did 'Sally Arsenic' Really Poison Her Family?

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership

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<v Speaker 1>with iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to Criminalium. We're exploring the

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<v Speaker 1>intersection of history and true crime. I'm Holly Frye and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Maria Tremarky. In this season we have been talking

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<v Speaker 1>about lady poisoners and we still are and in today's episode,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to look at the life of a young

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<v Speaker 1>woman named Sarah Chesham. You may also sometimes hear that

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<v Speaker 1>pronounced this cheeshelm. And she went on trial more than

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<v Speaker 1>once after continued accusations that she didn't just use arsenic

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<v Speaker 1>to poison the rats in her house. Sir Sarah, who

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<v Speaker 1>was born Sarah Parker, was nineteen and pregnant with her

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<v Speaker 1>first child when she married Richard Chesham, a twenty one

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<v Speaker 1>year old farmer, in summer of eighteen twenty eight. They

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<v Speaker 1>named their firstborn daughter, Harriet. In the next ten years,

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<v Speaker 1>they went on to have five more children, who were

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<v Speaker 1>all boys. Philip was born in eighteen thirty, John in

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen thirty two, Joseph in eighteen thirty four, James in

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen thirty seven, and finally George in eighteen thirty nine.

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<v Speaker 1>They lived in Clavering, a small rural village in northwest Essex,

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<v Speaker 1>and we mean very small. In eighteen forty one there

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<v Speaker 1>were barely more than a thousand people living in the

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<v Speaker 1>village and most of the population was under the age

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty. Sarah and Richard eked out really a meager living.

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah and possibly Richard as well, was illiterate. There was

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<v Speaker 1>little food and little work, and most people farmed just

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<v Speaker 1>to get by right, and not even always on their

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<v Speaker 1>own farms. Sometimes they would work for farmers, they were

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<v Speaker 1>that poor. In January of eighteen forty five, two of

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<v Speaker 1>their boys, Joseph, who at that time would have been

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<v Speaker 1>about ten and James, who was probably about eight, both

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<v Speaker 1>came down with severe stomach pains and vomiting, and they

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<v Speaker 1>were seen by their local doctor. Yet they still both

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<v Speaker 1>passed way. Both, it was believed, had died of cholera.

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<v Speaker 1>They were buried together in the same coffin most stories report,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were buried in their local churchyard. This is,

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<v Speaker 1>of course incredibly tragic, but it was also not really

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<v Speaker 1>out of character with the times. Cholera was a very

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<v Speaker 1>common bacterial disease at this point in England's history, and

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<v Speaker 1>it was easily spread through contaminated water. In general, this

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<v Speaker 1>was a time when people were unaware of the ways

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<v Speaker 1>in which diseases spread. Medicine was not really very sophisticated yet,

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<v Speaker 1>and because of poor sanitation and poor diet nutrition, as

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<v Speaker 1>well as dangerous working conditions, the overall British population at

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<v Speaker 1>this time was actually pretty unhealthy. Life expected see was

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<v Speaker 1>pretty low, and the fact that Sarah and her husband

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<v Speaker 1>both lived into their forties is kind of remarkable. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you were a baby at this time, thanks are

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<v Speaker 1>pretty grim for you too. As many as three out

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty babies didn't live beyond their first birthday, so

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<v Speaker 1>the death of the two boys was considered a family tragedy,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was no suspicion at the time against Sarah

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<v Speaker 1>or her husband, at least not by the authorities. The

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<v Speaker 1>small town gossip mill was beginning to run though. The

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<v Speaker 1>trouble all started during the summer of eighteen forty six,

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<v Speaker 1>about a year after the boys died, when another young

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<v Speaker 1>woman in town her name was Lydia Taylor, who may

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<v Speaker 1>or may not have been the ex girlfriend of Sarah's husband,

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<v Speaker 1>Richard Bean, accusing Sarah of poisoning her infant son. That baby,

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<v Speaker 1>named Solomon Taylor, was healthy when he was born, but

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<v Speaker 1>his good health began to deteriorate rapidly in late June

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<v Speaker 1>that year. His mother reported Sarah had visited Lydia and

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<v Speaker 1>her son three times, and Lydia was certain that her

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<v Speaker 1>son's death was linked to the gifts of rice pudding

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<v Speaker 1>and apple turnovers that Sarah had brought along. Lydia reportedly

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<v Speaker 1>also told authorities she was certain she saw a white,

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<v Speaker 1>slimy substance on her son's lips before he became ill.

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah she could continued, insisted that that was just sugar

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<v Speaker 1>from the desserts, but because Solomon died shortly after eating

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah's food, Lydia suspected her of murder. Okay, two questions.

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<v Speaker 1>Should have baby be those sakes right for one year? Right,

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<v Speaker 1>like your digestive system is still forming, But absolutely have

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<v Speaker 1>a spoonful of rice pudding. I guess that's that's the

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<v Speaker 1>more likely of the two to be digestible. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>a high place to judge what she fed her son

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<v Speaker 1>right less than a year old, that's really young to

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<v Speaker 1>be eaten those any kind of rich dessert just it

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<v Speaker 1>just seems weird to me. Again, I'm not a parent,

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<v Speaker 1>So any parent that has fed your child these things,

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<v Speaker 1>please don't think I'm judging you. My understanding is just

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<v Speaker 1>that babies should not be eating food that rich. But

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<v Speaker 1>this whole accusation kicked off a series of events, none

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<v Speaker 1>of which were good for Sarah. In August of that year,

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<v Speaker 1>based on Lydia's story as evidence, Sarah was investigated by

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<v Speaker 1>local authorities who decided that there was enough in Lydia's

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<v Speaker 1>report to move forward. So because of the of Sarah's

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<v Speaker 1>guilt around town, it was at this time too, that

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<v Speaker 1>the magistrate requested the bodies of her two sons be exhumed.

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<v Speaker 1>The remains were examined by local authorities and a local

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<v Speaker 1>doctor who sent the stomach contents of each child to

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<v Speaker 1>London for analysis. So while we're pondering that, it makes

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<v Speaker 1>me want to take a little bit of a break,

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<v Speaker 1>and when we return, we're going to talk about how

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah went on trial for the deaths of three boys.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Criminalia. Let's get back into how Sarah's

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<v Speaker 1>did trial for the poisonings of three children, two of

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<v Speaker 1>her own, the infant Solomon Taylor's body was tested for arsenic,

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<v Speaker 1>but none was found. The bodies of Sarah's own children,

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<v Speaker 1>Joseph and James, were also tested and the outcome I

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<v Speaker 1>mean those tests was not so good. Expert and forensic

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<v Speaker 1>scientists doctor Alfred Swain Taylor, no relation to Lydia and

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<v Speaker 1>Solomon Taylor told the court that he had found sufficient

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<v Speaker 1>arsenic in both James and Joseph's stomachs to have proved fatal.

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<v Speaker 1>So Alfred Swain Taylor's work in this case is actually

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<v Speaker 1>a really big deal because he himself was a big

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<v Speaker 1>deal during this time in England, specifically for his work

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<v Speaker 1>in the very early days of toxicology. So toxicologists are

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<v Speaker 1>experts on poison and poisoning and they come up a lot,

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<v Speaker 1>as you can tell in our episodes. So Taylor had

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<v Speaker 1>become the go to expert witness for coroners in this country.

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<v Speaker 1>He appeared at trials and in newspaper articles so often

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<v Speaker 1>that he became a minor celebrity himself. Charles Dickens and

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<v Speaker 1>Sir Arthur Conan Doyle both used him for inspiration in

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<v Speaker 1>their writing, and today he's considered the father of British

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<v Speaker 1>forensic medicine and doctor Taylor testified that he had found

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<v Speaker 1>yellow arsenic in the boy's stuffe which apparently meant he

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<v Speaker 1>explained that they had ingested white arsenic while they were

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<v Speaker 1>still alive. The sulfur released by the body, he said,

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<v Speaker 1>was what turned it yellow. So Taylor may have been

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<v Speaker 1>good at his job time, but this is not exactly

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of testing you would get from a modern

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<v Speaker 1>day toxicologist. There's a little bit of guesswork involved, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm still sure that it must have been pretty amazing

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<v Speaker 1>if you were in the courtroom and you had your witness,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, pulling out all of this scientific fact about arsenic.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe there was no reason to think he was wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>So based on his evidence, it was decided then that

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah should be arrested and put on trial. Actually, let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about those trials for just a minute, because Sarah

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<v Speaker 1>was put on trial three times and something like two

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<v Speaker 1>days or a day and a half. It was really compressed,

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<v Speaker 1>but there were three trials, one each for each victim.

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<v Speaker 1>While the evidence seemed clear to the court that her

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<v Speaker 1>two sons died of arsenic poisoning, there was no way

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<v Speaker 1>to prove how the boys had ingested the arsenic to

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<v Speaker 1>begin with. The jury deliberated quickly in both cases, and

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah was acquitted of the charges that she poisoned her son.

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<v Speaker 1>Despite the findings of the court, locals still believed that

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah did in fact poison her sons, and that she

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<v Speaker 1>did so to collect life insurance money. In nineteenth century England,

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<v Speaker 1>there were such things as burial clubs, which were societies

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<v Speaker 1>that had sprung up to help poor, working class families

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<v Speaker 1>give their deceased family members a proper funeral. So these

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<v Speaker 1>clubs worked like this. You paid into an association and

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<v Speaker 1>your weekly payments would be used to cover the funeral

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<v Speaker 1>expenses of your deceased loved ones when the time came.

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<v Speaker 1>Parents were known to cover sick children under several plans

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<v Speaker 1>if they could afford it, so that they would get

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<v Speaker 1>a good payout. So then there was the third trial.

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<v Speaker 1>This one was for the poisoning of Solomon Taylor, and

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<v Speaker 1>if you remember, there was no train of arsenic found

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<v Speaker 1>in Solomon's body, so the prosecution withdrew that case too,

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<v Speaker 1>and Sarah was cleared of these charges as well. And

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<v Speaker 1>then for a few years things seemed to go pretty quietly.

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<v Speaker 1>But when Richard passed away, at the age of forty

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<v Speaker 1>three after a long illness, the rumor mill sprung right

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<v Speaker 1>back into action. Having been previously accused of poisoning Lydia

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<v Speaker 1>Taylor's baby as well as her own two sons, the

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<v Speaker 1>villagers were convinced, like with all caps, convinced even years later,

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<v Speaker 1>and after Sarah had been found legally innocent, that the

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<v Speaker 1>forty one year old farmer's wife had to be responsible

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<v Speaker 1>for her husband's death. So Richard had suffered from chronic

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<v Speaker 1>lung disease, which you know was probably tuberculosis, but because

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<v Speaker 1>he complained of stomach pain and vomiting before his death,

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<v Speaker 1>and because Sarah was his wife, authorities ordered an autopsy,

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<v Speaker 1>and that autopsy did indeed reveal that he had tuberculosis,

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<v Speaker 1>which may or may not have been hastened by arsenic

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<v Speaker 1>poisoning because there was a scant amount of arsenic in

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<v Speaker 1>his stomach. And so Sarah was arrested again. And although

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<v Speaker 1>she had been cleared on all of those previous charges,

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<v Speaker 1>the acquittals from her first three trials were not well

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<v Speaker 1>received in the local community, sort of as we've been saying,

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<v Speaker 1>and in eighteen fifty she was brought back into court

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<v Speaker 1>and technically this was now her fourth four trials. So

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<v Speaker 1>during this fourth trial it was reported that Sarah cared

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<v Speaker 1>for Richard during his illness. That is not that unusual

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<v Speaker 1>at all. She was his wife, okay, and she fed

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<v Speaker 1>him milk that was thickened with rice, and apparently had

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<v Speaker 1>a strict rule that no one else was to bring

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<v Speaker 1>him food as in her previous trials. They brought doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Taylor back in to analyze the evidence here as well,

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<v Speaker 1>and he confirmed that there was a trace amount of

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<v Speaker 1>arsenic in Richard's body. Where he found a huge amount

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<v Speaker 1>of arsenic was actually in the bag of rice that

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<v Speaker 1>was retrieved from the Chresham and tested as evidence. So arsenic,

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<v Speaker 1>just in case you didn't know, is a naturally occurring

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<v Speaker 1>thing in rice. Right, you know, rinse your rice. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not supposed to be huge amounts of arsenic in your rice,

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<v Speaker 1>but it does naturally occur. So, right, we don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if that huge amount is like if it is a

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<v Speaker 1>thirty pound bag of rice, and you go, I found

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<v Speaker 1>X amount of arsenic, but no one's gonna eat the

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<v Speaker 1>thirty pounds of rice at a time, so it would

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<v Speaker 1>not be a fatal amount, or is it a cup.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, right, Huge is a very variable word at

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<v Speaker 1>this point. We don't know if they're saying huge in

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<v Speaker 1>relation to the whole volume or just a huge as

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<v Speaker 1>if I say I've driven twenty thousand miles, you go, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>that's amazing, and I go, well over ten years, like

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<v Speaker 1>it's yeah, yeah, yeah it is. It is interesting that

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<v Speaker 1>no one in the court, or at least it's not recorded,

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<v Speaker 1>actually ever asked the question how much should be in

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<v Speaker 1>rice and how much was in rice? So it's cited

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<v Speaker 1>interestingly that Taylor noted in his report that there wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>enough arsenic found in Richard's body to warrant a murder charge.

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<v Speaker 1>He just sort of noted that the arsenical rice existed.

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<v Speaker 1>And despite these things, the chrial just kept moving forward.

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<v Speaker 1>Why ask questions on top of this kind of dicey

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<v Speaker 1>arsenic evidence. Another local woman named Hannah Phillips told the

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<v Speaker 1>court about conversations she said that she had with Sarah

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<v Speaker 1>regarding how to get rid of a husband if the

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<v Speaker 1>need arises, and that those conversations had indicated that it

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<v Speaker 1>was with arsenic. It was also whispered around the village

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<v Speaker 1>that Sarah had a reputation for putting a special ingredient

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<v Speaker 1>into the mincemeat pies that she gave as gifts, and

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<v Speaker 1>that ingredient was not Brandy. The prosecution did their best

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<v Speaker 1>to present her as a disagreeable, angry, and quarrelsome woman.

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<v Speaker 1>They even had strangers take the stand against her and

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<v Speaker 1>appearing as her own defense. Sarah addressed the jury herself,

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<v Speaker 1>but her statement, which it's said was long and a

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<v Speaker 1>bit rambling, did not win anyone over. And although she

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't able to pull together a list of her own witnesses,

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<v Speaker 1>which would have been in her legal right, she did

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<v Speaker 1>speak about how the evidence against her was based only

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<v Speaker 1>on and we quote her from her trial, spite and revenge.

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<v Speaker 1>The court, like the town, believed that Sarah had murdered before,

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<v Speaker 1>and also believed that unless she was executed, there would

0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:43.680
<v Speaker 1>be and we again quote, no safety for mankind. The

0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:48.440
<v Speaker 1>coroner too, couldn't see any other outcome than execution. No

0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:53.440
<v Speaker 1>other outcome, nothing, just execution. What kind of court system

0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.760
<v Speaker 1>is this? There was no court of appeal in England

0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.839
<v Speaker 1>in eighteen fifty one when Sarah was convicted, and she

0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.240
<v Speaker 1>have had no means of challenging the outcome of her case.

0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.440
<v Speaker 1>In any of these instances. So that's a little bit

0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.080
<v Speaker 1>of a downer, and I want to take a break

0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:12.079
<v Speaker 1>and walk away from it for a second and we return.

0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.760
<v Speaker 1>We are going to talk about Sarah's execution and the

0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:36.320
<v Speaker 1>possible problems with this whole case. Welcome back to Criminalia.

0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 1>We're talking about the poison panic that gripped England at

0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:43.360
<v Speaker 1>the same time as Sarah's trial. Okay, let's take a

0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.600
<v Speaker 1>minute and talk about what life was like in England

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:47.800
<v Speaker 1>at this time. So this was kind of the early

0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 1>end of the Victorian Age, and economic conditions in England

0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.680
<v Speaker 1>were pretty dreadful. As we talked about earlier, a lot

0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.840
<v Speaker 1>of people were living in really abject poverty. There was

0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 1>high unemployment in the eighteen forties, which led to an

0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.160
<v Speaker 1>alarm public health crisis as the number of child and

0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:09.280
<v Speaker 1>infant poisonings began to increase, both accidental poisonings and intentional ones. Still,

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.200
<v Speaker 1>most people, though, who died from arsenic poisoning did so

0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:17.160
<v Speaker 1>because of accidents or mistakes, or long term exposure to

0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 1>the poison in everyday items such as cosmetics. It was

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 1>a common ingredient, or often from contaminated groundwater, which still

0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:29.000
<v Speaker 1>happens today. Most people who died from arsenic poison weren't murdered,

0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.480
<v Speaker 1>but that didn't prevent growing social unease about arsenic In

0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.960
<v Speaker 1>nineteenth century England, the country became gripped in in poison panic.

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.000
<v Speaker 1>Sarah was hardly alone as an accused. Between eighteen forty

0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.160
<v Speaker 1>and eighteen fifty, as many as two hundred and forty

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.760
<v Speaker 1>individuals were charged with murder or attempted murder by poisoning

0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:54.200
<v Speaker 1>right or wrong. National hysteria surrounding poisonings was growing, and

0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Sarah's trials caught the public's interest. They just they got

0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.320
<v Speaker 1>swept up in this. The Times newspaper commented that Sarah

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:07.120
<v Speaker 1>was quote an accepted and repeated murderess who walked abroad

0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:12.200
<v Speaker 1>in the village, unchallenged and unaccused. We don't really need

0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.720
<v Speaker 1>to say it, but this was a time when journalistic

0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:19.200
<v Speaker 1>standards were a little different, very different, and if they

0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.240
<v Speaker 1>had clickabait back then, these headlines would have been for that.

0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.160
<v Speaker 1>We talk about that as a modern thing, but I

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 1>really do feel like Victoria, the Victorian age news industry,

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.720
<v Speaker 1>was the origin point of clicking. Absolutely, it's just a

0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.520
<v Speaker 1>little bit different form. So they also went on to

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.600
<v Speaker 1>say in these articles that Sarah just did not have

0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.280
<v Speaker 1>the kind of disposition that a mother should have towards

0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 1>her child, and thus she was nicknamed Sally Arsenic. So

0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.840
<v Speaker 1>during the years that Sarah was allegedly poisoning three children

0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 1>and a husband, the Times published one hundred and thirty

0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.480
<v Speaker 1>two articles about poisoning crimes in the UK, So that's

0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.080
<v Speaker 1>just a couple of years and press it down. So

0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.600
<v Speaker 1>around this time period as well, there were about five

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.359
<v Speaker 1>hundred to six hundred people who died from being poisoned

0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.679
<v Speaker 1>each year in those years, So we don't really know

0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.399
<v Speaker 1>what the breakdown was of how many of the poisoners

0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.280
<v Speaker 1>were women and how many were men. But what we

0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:20.800
<v Speaker 1>do know about this press was that they ran seventy

0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 1>three articles about women who were on trial for poisoning

0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.680
<v Speaker 1>crimes and only covered fifty nine men who were accused

0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:31.760
<v Speaker 1>of the very same crimes. What I uncovered when I

0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:36.240
<v Speaker 1>was doing this research was there's not a lot of numbers.

0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.879
<v Speaker 1>There's numbers of deaths, but there's numbers of trials. But

0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:41.919
<v Speaker 1>if you were a female and you were accused of

0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.720
<v Speaker 1>a crime, you were immediately more interested. And while it

0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.800
<v Speaker 1>might be an indication that women were more likely to

0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:54.080
<v Speaker 1>poison in Victorian England. Their editorial calendar may also simply

0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.879
<v Speaker 1>reflect that stories about female criminals, as Maria just suggested,

0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:02.160
<v Speaker 1>were more sensational and would draw more readers than those

0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.159
<v Speaker 1>of males. Like we said, kind of like clickbait, but

0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:09.200
<v Speaker 1>nineteenth century style. Right, So let's get back to Sarah's trial.

0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:14.359
<v Speaker 1>Sarah was convicted in her fourth trial a single count

0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:19.160
<v Speaker 1>of administering poison with intent, and it's that statement rather

0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:23.000
<v Speaker 1>than murder. Because doctor Taylor didn't find enough arsenic to

0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:27.080
<v Speaker 1>prove fatal in Richard's body. She was sentenced to death

0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.720
<v Speaker 1>by hanging. It's reported also that thousands of people came

0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.760
<v Speaker 1>to watch her public execution, and possibly as many as

0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:38.280
<v Speaker 1>ten thousand people in March of eighteen fifty one. I

0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 1>have to say that if that number is true, and wow,

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:47.800
<v Speaker 1>does it feel high, like, particularly considering how small their

0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.000
<v Speaker 1>village was. There were a thousand people who lived there

0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and most of them were under the age of twenty.

0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Where do these ten thousand people came from? I mean,

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:56.520
<v Speaker 1>it's more people than can legally fit in the Miami

0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.199
<v Speaker 1>Beach Convention Center, so I'm not sure if they were

0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:07.160
<v Speaker 1>bussing them in you think, you think a little exaggerated.

0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:12.199
<v Speaker 1>There was actually an illustrated verse recounting Sarah's final moments

0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:16.439
<v Speaker 1>that was distributed among the spectators. One Stanza read like

0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:21.920
<v Speaker 1>this wicked, base, deceitful wife, barbarous and cruel mother, doomed

0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.720
<v Speaker 1>to die in the prime of life. Poor Sarah. She

0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.879
<v Speaker 1>was the last woman to be executed for attempted murder

0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 1>in England. So, as we have just uncovered, there was

0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot of gossip and only a little bit of

0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.399
<v Speaker 1>evidence in each of Sarah's trials. So was she just

0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.639
<v Speaker 1>hanged as a result of hearsay and rumor. Although she

0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.040
<v Speaker 1>was convicted of a single count of attempted murder, the

0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.879
<v Speaker 1>public believed that she was responsible for more than that,

0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.000
<v Speaker 1>and maybe also for teaching other women how to kill

0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:55.040
<v Speaker 1>with arsenic in a deadly poison ring in her small town.

0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:57.640
<v Speaker 1>There was no proof of that, but that didn't really

0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:02.800
<v Speaker 1>matter who there as trials sparked a moral panic about

0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.120
<v Speaker 1>poison And this is kind of the interesting and important

0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.040
<v Speaker 1>thing about her going on trial for four times. Up

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.240
<v Speaker 1>until eighteen fifty one, arsenic was really cheap and it

0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:16.359
<v Speaker 1>was really easily available around England, you know, like a

0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.520
<v Speaker 1>small town. You would have found it there too, And

0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.800
<v Speaker 1>although its intended uses were for things like killing rodents

0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:26.520
<v Speaker 1>and surprisingly treating acne, it quickly became known for its

0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.479
<v Speaker 1>off label uses such as killing family members and it

0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.919
<v Speaker 1>was often for inheritance. And again it was also a

0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.680
<v Speaker 1>thing to be talked about because it's very sensational. Who

0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:38.960
<v Speaker 1>doesn't love a little drama varying Victorian England was like

0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.080
<v Speaker 1>the era of the drama lama. I think we all

0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.879
<v Speaker 1>know and this whole set of trials fits right in yep.

0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.239
<v Speaker 1>So the London Medical Gazette at the time reported that

0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.280
<v Speaker 1>with just two pence you could buy enough arsenic to

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:54.800
<v Speaker 1>kill about one hundred people. Two pence is the equivalent

0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:57.639
<v Speaker 1>of two and a half cents in today's dollars, so

0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.160
<v Speaker 1>for you know, one hundred bucks, you could kill those

0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:06.320
<v Speaker 1>ten thousand spectators a legend spectators. You could at least

0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.280
<v Speaker 1>kill everybody in your town. So Sarah's trial was one

0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.240
<v Speaker 1>of several actually at this time that caught the attention

0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:16.600
<v Speaker 1>of both the media as well as Parliament, and in

0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.959
<v Speaker 1>early eighteen fifty one, the Earl of Carlisle introduced the

0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.920
<v Speaker 1>sale of Arsenic Regulation Bill, and this bill put a

0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:27.040
<v Speaker 1>few rules into effect. There had been no poison rules before,

0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:31.200
<v Speaker 1>and it broke down like this. So first, it required

0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:34.359
<v Speaker 1>arsenic suppliers to keep a register of names of people

0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:36.879
<v Speaker 1>who bought the poison, as well as the amount they

0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.880
<v Speaker 1>purchased and their reason for buying it, and they had

0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:43.680
<v Speaker 1>to provide a signature. Second, there were no restrictions on

0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:47.040
<v Speaker 1>who could sell arsenic even under the bill, but now

0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.560
<v Speaker 1>sellers were only legally allowed to sell it to people

0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:54.760
<v Speaker 1>whom they already knew. And third, arsenic, which we have

0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:58.720
<v Speaker 1>talked about before, in its natural state after it's been processed,

0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.960
<v Speaker 1>is white and an offen resembled sugar, and so at

0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:04.239
<v Speaker 1>this point it had to be dyed with indigo or

0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:07.880
<v Speaker 1>soot before it could be sold in individual packets, no

0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:12.680
<v Speaker 1>more mistaking it for a household sweetener. So this bill

0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:16.000
<v Speaker 1>was intended to address the growing public concern over both

0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.320
<v Speaker 1>accidental and deliberate arsenic poisonings, and it was actually in

0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.879
<v Speaker 1>place until it was repealed replaced with the Pharmacy and

0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:26.359
<v Speaker 1>Poisons Act of nineteen thirty three, so quite a long time.

0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.640
<v Speaker 1>Because of the way investigations and trials are conducted today,

0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:33.920
<v Speaker 1>it can sometimes seem easier for us to look back

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.240
<v Speaker 1>on the past and cry, you know, injustice, Sarah had

0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:38.280
<v Speaker 1>four trials and they didn't know what they were doing,

0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:41.639
<v Speaker 1>and we just cry everything was wrong. But there really

0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:44.879
<v Speaker 1>does just seem to be evidence in Sarah's case that

0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:48.520
<v Speaker 1>things could have been done better. There wasn't a lot

0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.920
<v Speaker 1>of evidence against her, and her one sided trial surrounding

0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:55.240
<v Speaker 1>the death of her husband found trace amounts of a

0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:59.080
<v Speaker 1>poison that often doesn't have to do with being poisoned.

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Conviction based on hearsay from locals, including bogus and uninvestigated

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:08.000
<v Speaker 1>stories like the one that we found, which was Sarah

0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:10.600
<v Speaker 1>kept a stash of arsenic in a tree stump outside

0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:13.840
<v Speaker 1>her house, it's hard to see her execution as a

0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:17.000
<v Speaker 1>fine practice of law. So that said, there is an

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:19.879
<v Speaker 1>interesting twist to Sarah's story that we actually did not

0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.400
<v Speaker 1>know about when we originally chose her for this season.

0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:27.480
<v Speaker 1>I love this Yes. Recently, Rosalind Powell, a descendant of Sarah,

0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:31.239
<v Speaker 1>approached the producers of BBC one's show Murder, Mystery and

0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:34.439
<v Speaker 1>My Family and asked for help in re examining the

0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:37.439
<v Speaker 1>circumstances of Sarah's case. So it's been more than one

0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:41.040
<v Speaker 1>hundred and sixty years since her execution, and with new

0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:45.000
<v Speaker 1>eyes on the evidence, investigators from that team found that

0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:47.840
<v Speaker 1>the tests carried out at the time of Sarah's trial

0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:52.080
<v Speaker 1>were actually pretty inconclusive, citing that today we now know

0:23:52.200 --> 0:23:55.320
<v Speaker 1>that it's not unusual to find small traces of arsenic

0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:58.399
<v Speaker 1>in a human body, like what was found in Richard's body,

0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:02.719
<v Speaker 1>Sarah's alleged victim. The barristers and judge determined there are

0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:05.760
<v Speaker 1>two barristers in a retired judge who who were the investigators,

0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:10.359
<v Speaker 1>had likely died from natural causes like cholera and tuberculosis,

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:14.960
<v Speaker 1>like we expect it. Ultimately, Sarah's family did get an

0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:18.800
<v Speaker 1>unsafe verdict, and that means the original guilty verdict should

0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:23.879
<v Speaker 1>be overturned. And while this isn't a binding judgment, it

0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:27.040
<v Speaker 1>has inspired her family to continue to pursue her case

0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:30.800
<v Speaker 1>and get her name cleared permanently. It's really exciting, you know.

0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:34.199
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it is the guy, the retired judge and

0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:36.080
<v Speaker 1>the two barristers, you know, the retired judge who came

0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:38.320
<v Speaker 1>down with this. He was like, I realized that, you know,

0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:41.280
<v Speaker 1>I can't just make a proclamation right now and say that,

0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:44.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, let's overturn it. But I think everybody's hoping

0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:47.840
<v Speaker 1>that the evidence and the sort of you know, off

0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:51.200
<v Speaker 1>record trial will really help her family in this manner,

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:53.960
<v Speaker 1>I hope. So it's one of those ways. One of

0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:56.760
<v Speaker 1>the things that I love about studying history is that

0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.080
<v Speaker 1>we think of it as settled business that happened in

0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:02.879
<v Speaker 1>the past. But history is alive and it's affecting people today,

0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:05.040
<v Speaker 1>and it can still shift, and what we understand of

0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:07.720
<v Speaker 1>the past can still change. So this is a prime

0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:11.880
<v Speaker 1>example of that. Absolutely, you know, ultimately, with that in mind,

0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:14.920
<v Speaker 1>and you look back at her story, you just wish

0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:20.520
<v Speaker 1>she'd just moved to a different town, just moved to London,

0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:23.199
<v Speaker 1>maybe the town next door. Like the people in this

0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:28.800
<v Speaker 1>village are terrible, just try, try again, try again. So

0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:31.320
<v Speaker 1>with that in mind, what did you come up for

0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:35.680
<v Speaker 1>for our cocktail this week? Colleg So this What's Your Poison?

0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Is brought to you by my desire to sweeten Sarah's story.

0:25:39.480 --> 0:25:43.359
<v Speaker 1>Ah yeah, So I started to look at I wanted

0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:46.359
<v Speaker 1>to come up with a cocktail that was sort of

0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:50.479
<v Speaker 1>pretty and lovely, and I searched around on the internet

0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:53.359
<v Speaker 1>for some ideas, and the cocktail that kept coming up

0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:55.720
<v Speaker 1>that I thought was most interesting to me was the

0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Arsenic and Old Lace, which is an existing cocktail that

0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:01.359
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people make. You'll find different variations on

0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:05.960
<v Speaker 1>the recipe. Obviously, that play that it is named after

0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:08.119
<v Speaker 1>is a twentieth century play and does not apply to

0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 1>the Victorian era, but the arsnickness of it, and there's

0:26:12.960 --> 0:26:17.200
<v Speaker 1>it's got a very sweet list of ingredients, not literal

0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:20.880
<v Speaker 1>sweet taste, but just it's a beautiful assortment. So it

0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:25.359
<v Speaker 1>starts with two ounces of gin, one ounce of driver mooth,

0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:32.200
<v Speaker 1>one ounce of violet liqueur. Some people will do creme

0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:35.359
<v Speaker 1>de violette. Sometimes you can just get a regular violet liqueur.

0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:38.480
<v Speaker 1>You can actually make your own violet liqueur not that hard,

0:26:38.840 --> 0:26:42.760
<v Speaker 1>and then varying degrees depending on the recipe. All of

0:26:42.800 --> 0:26:45.840
<v Speaker 1>these amounts shift from recipe to recipe for this cocktail

0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:50.560
<v Speaker 1>under different different bartenders versions a little anywhere from a

0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:56.440
<v Speaker 1>splash of absinthe to one and a half ounces. One

0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:58.560
<v Speaker 1>and a half seems very heavy to me and is

0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:02.120
<v Speaker 1>an outlier, but most of them are like an eighth

0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:04.920
<v Speaker 1>of an ounce, a tenth of an ounce, half a spoon,

0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:12.000
<v Speaker 1>a splash, and so normally to make a narsenic and

0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:14.440
<v Speaker 1>old lace, you would stir all these ingredients with ice

0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:16.679
<v Speaker 1>and then strain them into a chilled glass, normally like

0:27:16.680 --> 0:27:19.919
<v Speaker 1>a coop glass. But I wanted to make it a

0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:22.520
<v Speaker 1>little bit sweeter and softer. And this is also inspired

0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:25.640
<v Speaker 1>by the fact that gin is not my natural choice

0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:29.199
<v Speaker 1>in spirits. It's a little bity for me. It's not

0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:31.400
<v Speaker 1>mine either, so I'm curious about where you had it.

0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:35.320
<v Speaker 1>I added a spoonful of simple syrup and it just

0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:37.560
<v Speaker 1>softens up the edges of the gin a little bit

0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:39.840
<v Speaker 1>and makes it a little more palatable. Now I will

0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:47.320
<v Speaker 1>say my husband said it tasted like children's robotessin But again,

0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 1>keep in mind I always have to caveat that he

0:27:49.600 --> 0:27:52.359
<v Speaker 1>is not a drinker and doesn't really like the taste

0:27:52.359 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 1>of any alcohol. So you know, he's definitely one of

0:27:56.000 --> 0:27:58.560
<v Speaker 1>those people that I would say eighty percent of drinks

0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:01.719
<v Speaker 1>he goes taste like medicine. Keep that in mind, noted,

0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:04.679
<v Speaker 1>but it is it was a really it's a nice

0:28:05.800 --> 0:28:10.159
<v Speaker 1>the I'm always a fan of any floral liqueur. I

0:28:10.240 --> 0:28:12.520
<v Speaker 1>just love them. I like to use them in everything.

0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:14.520
<v Speaker 1>I love to make a rose liqueur and just keep

0:28:14.520 --> 0:28:18.159
<v Speaker 1>it on hand. It occurred to me as well, if you,

0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:20.920
<v Speaker 1>like me, are not a gin person, this same recipe

0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 1>would be beautiful with vodka. That's good to know. Yeah,

0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:25.960
<v Speaker 1>that's my thing I always want. I'm not a bartender.

0:28:26.040 --> 0:28:29.080
<v Speaker 1>I just I enjoy cocktails and I like learning about them.

0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:31.439
<v Speaker 1>So the one thing I always encourage people is like,

0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 1>there aren't really like rules. You know, don't don't be

0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:38.480
<v Speaker 1>foolish and drink too much and please drink responsibly, but

0:28:38.560 --> 0:28:41.840
<v Speaker 1>like you can make substitutions and try different stuff. You're

0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:46.000
<v Speaker 1>not going to go to cocktail jail. Like, fine, this

0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:50.040
<v Speaker 1>isn't Victorian English. People are gonna come watch you die.

0:28:51.520 --> 0:28:54.200
<v Speaker 1>It's not Victorian England. You're not gonna go to cocktail jail.

0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:57.160
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, give it a whirl. Any or any variation

0:28:57.280 --> 0:28:59.560
<v Speaker 1>on it that sounds delightful. I had. I had one

0:28:59.600 --> 0:29:01.760
<v Speaker 1>with lunch so I could test it before we recorded.

0:29:02.520 --> 0:29:08.760
<v Speaker 1>It's delightful you would like to make this. We highly

0:29:08.880 --> 0:29:11.480
<v Speaker 1>encourage it, but also we wanted to thank you once

0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:14.240
<v Speaker 1>again for spending time with us today and hearing about

0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:16.440
<v Speaker 1>Sarah's story, which to me has like one of the

0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:18.840
<v Speaker 1>best de newmal of any of the stories we've talked

0:29:18.840 --> 0:29:22.000
<v Speaker 1>about so far and maybe in the future too. Like

0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:24.200
<v Speaker 1>she just her end was a pretty good one. It's

0:29:24.240 --> 0:29:26.920
<v Speaker 1>really pretty good. Yeah, it's pretty good. If you would

0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:29.239
<v Speaker 1>like to subscribe to the podcast, you could do so.

0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:31.200
<v Speaker 1>We would love for that to happen. So you can

0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:34.720
<v Speaker 1>get Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:40.880
<v Speaker 1>you listen to your favorite shows. Criminalia is a production

0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:45.240
<v Speaker 1>of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

0:29:45.240 --> 0:29:49.600
<v Speaker 1>from Shondaland Audio, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:51.640
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.