Speaker 1: Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we're talking low price ev leases, inflationary Amazon,
Speaker 1: and twenty four to seven trading. That's right, buddy.
Speaker 2: It is Friday, and everybody who's listening right now knows
Speaker 2: that on Friday we talk about the best stories out
Speaker 2: there and how they pertain to your personal finance. So
Speaker 2: let's get after it. This could be their first episode.
Speaker 2: Maybe they don't know that. Well, that's what we do
Speaker 2: on Fridays. If you don't know, now you know, let's
Speaker 2: should we dally, should we stall, shall we tarry? Or
Speaker 2: do we move on?
Speaker 1: Well, just a crazy thing that happened to me a
Speaker 1: couple months ago, and I'm wondering this is gonna be
Speaker 1: an opportunity for us to like really get after it. Joel,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering how you would handle this. So if you
Speaker 1: are cheap, at least in the South, it's kind of
Speaker 1: weird scame situation. Uh So in this people pinestraw on
Speaker 1: in their yards. That's like what we do, at least
Speaker 1: in some parts of the South. And it was on
Speaker 1: my to do list for spring break. I was going
Speaker 1: to go to one of the home depot basically get
Speaker 1: a bunch of pine straw and tossed it down myself.
Speaker 2: I grew up spreading pintes. That was just like the
Speaker 2: quintessential spring time. Yes, it's how you know it's spring
Speaker 2: right at least in Augusta, Georgia, because it's like the
Speaker 2: dawn of the arrival of Master's Week, which we didn't even.
Speaker 1: Talk about masters a week a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 1: But yeah, spreading pinestrawl, your dad pulls you by the ear,
Speaker 1: forces you out there to do it with the Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: no choice. So now I'm the dad. I have to
Speaker 1: do it myself. But this truck pulled by like literally
Speaker 1: the day I was going to go do it, and
Speaker 1: they had a bunch of pinestraw on the.
Speaker 2: Back, and they said, hey, how convenient.
Speaker 1: We'll do the pine straw for you for the low,
Speaker 1: low price. And they said eight bucks of bail. Basically,
Speaker 1: I think the price of buying the pine straws like
Speaker 1: four bucks of bales. So I was like, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: that's money included for your labor. He's like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: probably gonna be like twenty to twenty five bales. I
Speaker 1: did the math in my head I was like, great, okay,
Speaker 1: you're on go for it. You can take this task
Speaker 1: from my clutch. And then it's so weird. They did it.
Speaker 1: It looked good, but then they come up and they say, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be nine hundred and something dollars, and I
Speaker 1: was like, wait a second. I just did the math.
Speaker 1: You said twenty ish times eight. I was ready to
Speaker 1: pay two hundred bucks at max.
Speaker 2: I'm shocked.
Speaker 1: And we obviously had no like signed contract or anything.
Speaker 1: So it became this really weird back and forth and
Speaker 1: I just didn't know what to do. I did not
Speaker 1: handle that, but I knew that, like I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: asked them to do this. If I knew it was
Speaker 1: gonna be nine hundred and something dollars, that sounds ridiculous.
Speaker 1: I would have done it myself. And so I won't
Speaker 1: say I met them in the middle, but I was
Speaker 1: basically like, listen, this is kind of crazy. I don't
Speaker 1: know what to do here. I'm happy, And I even
Speaker 1: told the workers by that. I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: blame you. I blame your boss for sending you out
Speaker 1: here and like allowing you to take these tactics like
Speaker 1: it's on your boss, isn't this isn't on you?
Speaker 2: Well, what does the price come to? So, like you said,
Speaker 2: twenty so on the low end, you're thinking one hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty bucks, yep.
Speaker 1: But I was like, all right, maybe as much as
Speaker 1: like two hundred that's fine. Yeah, it's like a tiny
Speaker 1: bit more than that, that's cool. So when I ended
Speaker 1: up settling on with him, I said, I will pay
Speaker 1: you three hundred and fifty bucks and I will not
Speaker 1: pay him anymore. And if your boss wants to come
Speaker 1: over here and talk to me where, we can totally
Speaker 1: do that. But so I don't even know if I
Speaker 1: should have gone that high.
Speaker 2: It was a weird situation, unfortunately. I mean, okay, there's
Speaker 2: multiple things that could be going on here, right, Like
Speaker 2: obviously one is that truly it was not a good estimate,
Speaker 2: and it's a very bad estimate, a very bad estimate,
Speaker 2: and perhaps there is a lack of an ability to
Speaker 2: communicate what it was actually going to cost, right, So
Speaker 2: like an honest error basically, but then gargantuan error. I know,
Speaker 2: then that's five x error. And that's the thing if
Speaker 2: that is what you specialize in, not only in selling
Speaker 2: the pine Strull, but spreading it like you are going
Speaker 2: to have a pretty good idea of how many bales
Speaker 2: it's going to take to cover an area. So I'm
Speaker 2: assuming they had to use way more than twenty.
Speaker 1: He told me they had to use a lot more
Speaker 1: than that, and he was like, you should have known
Speaker 1: it was going to take more than that. I was like,
Speaker 1: how am I supposed to know?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, exactly. That is where I think
Speaker 2: it falls on them, because they should know. They should
Speaker 2: be able to look out a yard and as long
Speaker 2: as you were clear though, like hey, these are the
Speaker 2: beds we're talking about, they should pretty dang accurately know
Speaker 2: how many bails it would take. And so the so
Speaker 2: I already shared the honest mistake sort of path, but
Speaker 2: it sounds like it's more like they're just trying to
Speaker 2: they're trying to scale them scam.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the way it felt, because at the end
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, let's get my boss on the phone,
Speaker 1: and literally the phone noise like it says boss in
Speaker 1: on his iPhone or whatever when he hits ment to
Speaker 1: talk to his boss, and the guy's like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry they didn't coach you correctly, but come on, please
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Maybe it awkward, so awkward, so awkward,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, listen, this is my max, and if
Speaker 1: you want to come here and talk to me in person,
Speaker 1: we can talk it out like two adults. But I'm
Speaker 1: just not going to be in this like middle I
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah. So they went about their way, and
Speaker 1: when I said, they were like, what's the other solution?
Speaker 1: I was like, take all your pinestraw back? Can you
Speaker 1: take it back? Yeah? Which is crazy. Obviously that's not
Speaker 1: really a solution either. But I felt really awkward as
Speaker 1: a homeowner to be put in that position. And maybe
Speaker 1: that's on me for like not getting more details up
Speaker 1: front or anything like that. But they made it sound
Speaker 1: like it was super easy, super quick, and hey, we're
Speaker 1: going to be in and out.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, if you're thinking, like on the
Speaker 2: high end, maybe to a little over two hundred bucks
Speaker 2: and then you ended up paying three fifty, that's a
Speaker 2: pretty generous contingency like that. There's enough room there that
Speaker 2: if it was an accurate quote and they did go
Speaker 2: over a little bit, that it would have covered their cost.
Speaker 2: But like you're talking it being like three times that
Speaker 2: as far as what they're actually looking to charge.
Speaker 1: So oh, it was basically five x because if I'm
Speaker 1: thinking one sixty, they asked for nine to sixty. Right, Well,
Speaker 1: I guess three x what you actually did end up paying.
Speaker 1: But yeah, either way, Yeah, I think I think I
Speaker 1: would have done something similar to.
Speaker 2: To which you. Okay, maybe even paid less to be honest,
Speaker 2: because I think I would have done the math. I
Speaker 2: would have said, yeah, like, okay, I'm almost thinking one sixty, guys,
Speaker 2: maybe two hundred. Uh, let's account for a twenty percent overage. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'll give you guys two fifty. Yeah, tops.
Speaker 1: And I felt more less frustrated about the money and
Speaker 1: more frustrated about kind of the position they put me in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it also made me want to go post in
Speaker 1: my neighborhood Facebook group pay gotcha watch out for these
Speaker 1: Pinestross gamber dads. It's uh yeah, just a terrible aiy
Speaker 1: to do business, obviously, and my guess is they're going
Speaker 1: to get somebody else to pay a whole lot more
Speaker 1: than they should probably, So yeah, okay, but enough about that,
Speaker 1: Let's move on to Friday flight Saplings of stories we
Speaker 1: found interesting this week, and they pertain to your personal finances.
Speaker 1: Let's start off by talking about EV's and a topic
Speaker 1: that we don't usually sing the praises of very often
Speaker 1: leasing the best way though to get an inexpensive ev
Speaker 1: it just might be And this goes counter two with
Speaker 1: so much of what we talk about most of the
Speaker 1: time when we talk about cars, to lease it. That's
Speaker 1: true normally, Matt. Of course, we're not big fans of leasing.
Speaker 1: It's more of a lifestyle choice than a smart financial one.
Speaker 1: When you lease a car, you're saying, I just like
Speaker 1: to upgrade by ride every couple of years, and I
Speaker 1: don't mind paying for the privilege of doing this. That
Speaker 1: is literally what you're saying when you lease a car.
Speaker 1: Most of the time. There are, though, exceptions to almost
Speaker 1: every rule that I can think of, and this is
Speaker 1: the same thing is true when we're talking about leasing.
Speaker 1: There are times where a lease can actually potentially make
Speaker 1: a decent financial sense. For example, Matt, you and I
Speaker 1: recently saw this and I had you, like, you know,
Speaker 1: looking into this hardcore. There's a Subaru electric vehicle that
Speaker 1: was being offered at two hundred and forty one dollars
Speaker 1: a month on a lease with zero down and by
Speaker 1: the way, you got to pay attention to that because
Speaker 1: sometimes like it's like, oh, that's it's a low monthly
Speaker 1: lease amount, but you got to pay down, right, so
Speaker 1: then that's not a deal. But this was zero down
Speaker 1: to forty one a month. That's pretty good. The Hondai
Speaker 1: Ionic is two hundred and twenty five bucks a month
Speaker 1: right now, with two hundred and twenty five down at
Speaker 1: least in some places. Yeah, Also, that's a good look
Speaker 1: at EV too. Yeah, yeah, it's a great deal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's no Chevy bolt Man a right, it's a hun
Speaker 1: day And Tesla just announced that they've reduced rates on
Speaker 1: some of their leases too, So I guess that if
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't know, I'm kind of like EV curious,
Speaker 1: well kicking the tires a little bit, might at least
Speaker 1: want leasing on your radar. Yeah, so many least EV's
Speaker 1: they still qualify for the seventy five hundred dollars federal
Speaker 1: tax credit, which is why that you're able to get
Speaker 1: that drastically reduced monthly payment. Basically, the dealers they receive
Speaker 1: those savings and they're able to pass that alone to
Speaker 1: you and reduce payments. And so if you've been considering EV,
Speaker 1: but you haven't wanted to take the plunge. Leasing one
Speaker 1: of the less expensive models might be a good way
Speaker 1: to test the waters. Just one of the numbers because
Speaker 1: they can make a lot more sense than they normally
Speaker 1: would do some calculations. See how much you might be
Speaker 1: saving in fuel costs, especially if for you to charge
Speaker 1: your EV at home. Yeah, that's where a lot of
Speaker 1: the savings happen.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: If you're charging on the go, you're paying a lot
Speaker 1: more per kill a lot or Whateverah.
Speaker 2: And Plus I'm thinking about too, just like as technology advances,
Speaker 2: like you aren't stuck with an EV that's massively outdated.
Speaker 2: It makes me think of is it Moore's law that
Speaker 2: says like every couple of years, technology like doubles and
Speaker 2: speed or essentially something like that, And that's not always
Speaker 2: true because like just look at cell phones right and
Speaker 2: the costs go down to there is a drastic increase
Speaker 2: in capabilities and speed, and same thing with computers. But
Speaker 2: I feel like when it comes to evs, we are
Speaker 2: just in the beginning like phases, the beginning cycles of
Speaker 2: that and the ability to lease it means you're not
Speaker 2: stuck with something that you pay tens of thousands of
Speaker 2: dollars for where before long it feels like you've got
Speaker 2: like a dinosaur on your hands. And here's the thing which.
Speaker 1: Has how anybody feels if they've got a twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: niece on leak.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, and it's not that. What we're proposing here
Speaker 2: is that you need to go out there and have
Speaker 2: the latest and greatest features in the latest colors on
Speaker 2: the on the ev It's truly because of the fact
Speaker 2: that the range has increased so much in recent years.
Speaker 1: It's literally so you can go where you need to go.
Speaker 2: Yes, which is the ability to save money. This isn't
Speaker 2: And so what I'm highlighting here is the fact that
Speaker 2: we're not looking at this through a lifestyle lens. This
Speaker 2: is where like we're viewing this through a financial lens,
Speaker 2: and by doing that it looks like it could make
Speaker 2: sense for a whole lot of folks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I still think about the Toyota announcing they've
Speaker 1: got the solid state battery techno exactly what I'm thinking
Speaker 1: Of'm talking about nine hundred plus miles potentially that you
Speaker 1: can get on a charge with the batteries that are
Speaker 1: going to be rolling out in a few years. Maybe
Speaker 1: that's the kind of game changing technology that makes evs
Speaker 1: just prone to some sort of massive adoption cycle and
Speaker 1: costs going down as well. They continue to go down,
Speaker 1: and so guess what, you least for a couple of
Speaker 1: years because you want to go EV, you want to
Speaker 1: save on the gas, and you kind of want to
Speaker 1: test the waters. Well, then at some point a few
Speaker 1: years down the road, when the technology is even better
Speaker 1: and maybe the prices have gone down even more, that's
Speaker 1: when you pounce.
Speaker 2: In you by, Yeah, it seems that there's like the
Speaker 2: potential or massive depreciation in the coming years, which is
Speaker 2: why as a potential EV buyer, I think you should
Speaker 2: maybe be a little hesitant if you are thinking about
Speaker 2: plunking another change to purchase one rather than perhaps to
Speaker 2: lease it, which again sounds crazy because we've always been
Speaker 2: against that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, well, and I think one other point
Speaker 1: on that is that we know the federal tax cardit
Speaker 1: is going to be around for many many years to come,
Speaker 1: and so it's not like that time's running out on
Speaker 1: that or anything like that. So when you buy one
Speaker 1: maybe four or five years down the road, guess what,
Speaker 1: you're still going to get that price break on that too.
Speaker 1: This true, right, since we're talking about EV's there was
Speaker 1: an article in Bloomberg about energy nerds who obsess over
Speaker 1: their electricity bills and they do anything they can do
Speaker 1: to reduce it. Matt, I don't know if you felt
Speaker 1: a kinship with some of those people. That seems like
Speaker 1: sounds like something I could see you going down that
Speaker 1: rabbit hole.
Speaker 2: It's funny because like the kids will go off to school,
Speaker 2: and certain days of the week, I am at home
Speaker 2: alone before I walk to work.
Speaker 1: Can I guess what you do? Do you turn off
Speaker 1: all the lights in the house.
Speaker 2: Well, it's just always such a rush in the morning,
Speaker 2: and so like there are multiple fans going on in
Speaker 2: east room, all all the different lights are on, and
Speaker 2: I just a lot of times they haven't flushed.
Speaker 1: The toilet as well. So I just like to leave
Speaker 1: the house again to know it's not just my kid,
Speaker 1: but I just like to leave the.
Speaker 2: House in a good state. You know, when I leave
Speaker 2: to go to work.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say, like the closet lights are
Speaker 1: on or the bathroom locks on, like I.
Speaker 2: Go turn them all off before I leave. Like that.
Speaker 1: That's just a weird quirk that I have. And apparently
Speaker 1: you do too. Therefore we are energy nerds. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're not alone. We're guys energy dad nerds. Well, obviously
Speaker 1: it's true that you could buy different gadgets right to
Speaker 1: help you reduce electricity consumption and to monitor what you're
Speaker 1: using more thoroughly. You know, you can get solar panels
Speaker 1: or batteries for storage, and it's neat to see the
Speaker 1: way some of those guys are implementing some of those
Speaker 1: devices in their homes in order to reduce energy consumption.
Speaker 1: But I think one of the other things worth noting
Speaker 1: is that one of the easiest ways to save is
Speaker 1: to change your pricing plan and then change your habits Accordingly.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this before, Matt, but it's been a minute.
Speaker 1: There are, of course off peak plans that a lot
Speaker 1: of utility providers offer that will charge you more for
Speaker 1: using electricity during peak hours and then far far less
Speaker 1: for using electricity during off peak times. So even if
Speaker 1: you don't drive an ev by the way, you might
Speaker 1: find that you're able to reduce your electricity bill by
Speaker 1: what's known as load flexing, basically doing your laundry, running
Speaker 1: the dishwasher at night. That kind of stuff, and if you.
Speaker 2: Do have when you should be doing them anyway, because
Speaker 2: the noise associated with I mean, I would you run
Speaker 2: your dishwasher?
Speaker 1: Is it like typically over nine default? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yea, And I feel like it just naturally fits within
Speaker 2: people's lifestyle anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we don't have an EV anymore, although Rabbi
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six, baby, but when we do, Matt,
Speaker 1: this is perfect for folks like that. We've talked to
Speaker 1: listener Greg who spends almost nothing to charge his EV
Speaker 1: overnight because he charges it overnight, and he's on one
Speaker 1: of these flex plans. And so I love the idea
Speaker 1: of being able to save money just by being on
Speaker 1: a different plan and changing our usage just when we
Speaker 1: use certain features of our home. That's a nifty way
Speaker 1: to save money that most people don't think about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you said he pays next to nothing. He pays
Speaker 2: one point eight cents per kill a lot hour. And
Speaker 2: I actually I rechecked it because I was curious because
Speaker 2: I crushed the numbers not too long ago. But I'm like,
Speaker 2: all right, let's see if that was just like a
Speaker 2: something like a promotion, perhaps no still around, Well it
Speaker 2: was one point seven, so yes, it did go up,
Speaker 2: but now it's one point eight per kill a lot hour.
Speaker 2: But when we're saying, like when we're talking about EV's
Speaker 2: and potentially leasing them, and when I say to crunch
Speaker 2: the numbers, we're not just talking about the difference in
Speaker 2: leasing an EV and just purchasing an EV, but also
Speaker 2: compare it to your gas bill, because you're going to
Speaker 2: see a dramatic savings when it comes to the amount
Speaker 2: of money you're able to save in what you spend
Speaker 2: at the gas station every single month. Because I know
Speaker 2: for us, at a minimum, based on the daily commute
Speaker 2: for school, we're spending two hundred and fifty dollars a month.
Speaker 2: Like all the no's pretty evenly on gas depending on
Speaker 2: what the price per gallon is.
Speaker 1: Super Release basically pays ourselves.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's the thing. When you like, those same number
Speaker 2: of miles traveled via an EV would be and I've
Speaker 2: got it on my spreadsheet six dollars and fifty cents
Speaker 2: a month a month, which is incredible and so literally
Speaker 2: when you are looking at being able to charge your
Speaker 2: vehicle at night from at least here in Georgia it's
Speaker 2: from eleven pm to seven am, it literally cost one
Speaker 2: point eight cents per kilo kill a hours. So those
Speaker 2: are the kind of numbers we want you out there
Speaker 2: to be crunching as you're considering something like this, because
Speaker 2: it truly could save you a ton of money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if someone came to you and said, hey, listen,
Speaker 1: we'll cut your electricity bill in you know, by two thirds.
Speaker 1: But you just got to make this, this and this
Speaker 1: change and only run these devices at this time of night.
Speaker 1: A lot of us would do that. But the truth
Speaker 1: is that offer is available for us. We just you know,
Speaker 1: go to your local utility provider's website and see what
Speaker 1: they've got. I bet they've got an off peak plan
Speaker 1: that might be able to suit your needs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just crazy. And just to think that some
Speaker 2: of the monthly least amounts are so low, and when
Speaker 2: you are taking energy costs into account, you might be thinking, well,
Speaker 2: why don't I just get an EV because it's like
Speaker 2: it's almost like you're paying me to drag this EV
Speaker 2: around except for the cost of insurance.
Speaker 1: Which is the downside. One thing that other people and
Speaker 1: you as well well, Matt, might want to think about
Speaker 1: if you opt to go this route is to install
Speaker 1: solar panels. So guess what, maybe maybe you're not even
Speaker 1: paying the utility provider a dime.
Speaker 2: Maybe truly, overall, they are paying you not just to
Speaker 2: drive the ev but also to provide the grid with
Speaker 2: electricity from your home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. In some places you can make money for
Speaker 1: selling the electricity you're creating at your home back to
Speaker 1: the utility provider. But okay, solar panels. I saw this
Speaker 1: story in I believe it was the financial times are
Speaker 1: becoming so cheap that people are using them as fence
Speaker 1: panels in the Netherlands and in Germany. They're not able
Speaker 1: to capture rays in the same way when they're installed
Speaker 1: as when they're installed on the roof, but it's also
Speaker 1: a lot cheaper because you don't Yeah, it cuts down
Speaker 1: the cost of installation. That's one of the most expensive
Speaker 1: parts now of installing solar is the people who actually
Speaker 1: do the installation, because basically, when you look at the numbers,
Speaker 1: a solar panel cost eleven cents per watt at the
Speaker 1: end of March or but and that's half the price
Speaker 1: it was at the same time last year. So the
Speaker 1: price of solar panels is just dropping like a rock.
Speaker 1: And of course this doesn't mean we're ready to upend
Speaker 1: some of our traditional energy sources yet, but the rapid
Speaker 1: decline in the cost of solar and then these ingenious
Speaker 1: approaches to using solar panels. I love this man. I
Speaker 1: think this is a great sign. Instead of putting wood
Speaker 1: privacy fences up in your yard, make them solar panels
Speaker 1: because guess what, it might be cheaper and then it
Speaker 1: might actually pay back in the long run. Two, because
Speaker 1: you're able to generate some extra energy. Even if it's
Speaker 1: not the most optimized way, it's still pretty optimized.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love the scrappiness. And you were talking about
Speaker 2: the federal tax credit for evs. Don't forget about the
Speaker 2: tax credits that you might qualify for when doing some
Speaker 2: of these different green upgrades around your house. Basically we've
Speaker 2: talked about this before, but many of these energy efficient
Speaker 2: changes that you can make, they come with a roughly
Speaker 2: thirty percent discount, but there are also annual caps, and
Speaker 2: so it's important to keep in mind to maybe make
Speaker 2: some of these changes in consecutive years if you're trying
Speaker 2: to score the max tax rebate that's available to you.
Speaker 2: And then remember as well, some of the most impactful
Speaker 2: changes that you can make. They aren't all that tech forward.
Speaker 2: They're pretty simple, straightforward, like adding insulation that can make
Speaker 2: a big difference in your electricity bills. But it's certainly
Speaker 2: an unsung hero. Just remember, many of these tax credits
Speaker 2: are going to be around again until twenty thirty two,
Speaker 2: just like with the federal tax credit for EVS. There's
Speaker 2: no rush. And we actually talked about some of these
Speaker 2: different energy efficient upgrades that you can make back in
Speaker 2: episode six fifty six, kind.
Speaker 1: Of went through the laundry list of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So listen, I will look to that
Speaker 2: in the show notes if you want to listen back
Speaker 2: to some of these different moves that you can make,
Speaker 2: which you might be thinking of as it's kind of
Speaker 2: heating up outside of your thinking, oh man, I can
Speaker 2: kind of feel the heat radiating from the ceiling upstairs. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And basically for a lot of these things, it's a
Speaker 1: straight up thirty percent discount, but because the federal government's
Speaker 1: going to pitch in and cover a decent portion of
Speaker 1: some of those upgrades you make. But kind of like
Speaker 1: you said, Matt, the devil's in the details. You got
Speaker 1: to read the fine print and make sure when you're
Speaker 1: upgrading certain things and how you're upgrading certain things that
Speaker 1: you're jumping through the right hoops. Let's talk about Amazon
Speaker 1: for a second. Have you heard of that company, Matt.
Speaker 1: It's you know, it's a big one. Some people buy
Speaker 1: stuff online from that website. Well, there is a claim
Speaker 1: from a new book about this massive internet retailer from
Speaker 1: a Wall Street Journal reporter that came out this week. First,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the bad. Amazon makes up forty percent
Speaker 1: of online retail which is kind of scary. The fact
Speaker 1: that they sell forty percent of the goods of people
Speaker 1: buy online kind of mind blowing statistic. Another one to
Speaker 1: eighty percent of homes have Amazon Prime.
Speaker 2: I found that to be more shocking. That's that's incredible.
Speaker 1: Crazy to think that they're not only just buying a
Speaker 1: significant amount of their goods on Amazon, but that they
Speaker 1: also pay a massive annual fee to Amazon for the
Speaker 1: privilege of getting the shipping, even though the quick shipping
Speaker 1: is becoming pretty ubiquitous around the webs and Matt the book,
Speaker 1: it also discusses the fees that Amazon charges sellers who
Speaker 1: want to list items on their site. It's a lot
Speaker 1: of money, Like, it's not cheap to list your stuff
Speaker 1: on Amazon apparently, and it's getting more expensive. But I'll
Speaker 1: also say those sellers have the option to sell elsewhere,
Speaker 1: to create their create their own direct to consumer website
Speaker 1: like many many other businesses have, they don't because Amazon
Speaker 1: is where the customers are, and so they're willing to
Speaker 1: pay the fee to sell their goods there because that's
Speaker 1: how they're actually gonna make money. And recent data finds,
Speaker 1: by the way, that Amazon has increased prices slower than
Speaker 1: the rate of inflation, and that price growth might actually
Speaker 1: be negative on Amazon dot Com in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: which actually resonates with what some other retailers are saying,
Speaker 1: like Costco they've made similar remarks. And so I don't know, Matt,
Speaker 1: is Amazon inflationary? That's kind of the question that Axios
Speaker 1: asked this week. And to me, it doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: they're so big that they tip the inflation scales. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of scary how much of the Internet traffic
Speaker 1: and that they get in the retail environment. But I
Speaker 1: also don't think that like we can point to Amazon
Speaker 1: and say just because they're big, they're bad and they're
Speaker 1: causing prices to go I.
Speaker 2: Think that's what's going on here, is that oftentimes folks
Speaker 2: are looking for some sort of scapegoat and who doesn't
Speaker 2: want to hate on Amazon because you know, not a
Speaker 2: lot of folks like the Bezos. But there is still
Speaker 2: plenty of competition out there for us to choose from.
Speaker 2: This is why we don't think first of all, that
Speaker 2: Amazon isn't inflationary, but also they're not a monopoly, because
Speaker 2: that's the other sort of phrase here tossed around when
Speaker 2: they have these kind of numbers. Because there are other options.
Speaker 2: We opt for Amazon because of convenience, like I literally
Speaker 2: can't remember or can't think of, like what our life
Speaker 2: would be like and if we didn't have Amazon, and
Speaker 2: the convenience that comes with being able to order a
Speaker 2: giant thing of toilet paper because she's like, I got
Speaker 2: other things to carry out of the store when I'm
Speaker 2: going to go to Costco or go to Aldie.
Speaker 1: Come on, okay, you gotta do better.
Speaker 2: But bottom line, you can avoid Amazon if you don't
Speaker 2: want to support them, and.
Speaker 1: Some people are.
Speaker 2: They're opting for even cheaper Chinese alternatives like like t
Speaker 2: Mu Sine or Shine Shine.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to announce out.
Speaker 2: But you don't necessarily have to go cheap. You can
Speaker 2: buy higher quality goods via local retailers. You can go
Speaker 2: with internet retailers who specialize in the specific products that
Speaker 2: you're looking to buy. But whatever you're looking for you
Speaker 2: can find not only on Amazon, but you can find elsewhere.
Speaker 2: And yeah, Amazon, and it's a big company. That being said,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to necessarily pin them for the inflationary
Speaker 2: sort of environment that we find ourselves in. I think
Speaker 2: it's more like the stimichecks. It's more like the government
Speaker 2: spending versus just what it is that a giant corporation
Speaker 2: decides to charge their small businesses who want to sell
Speaker 2: products on their website.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is really interesting to think, like what when
Speaker 1: we look back at it seems like it's pretty easy
Speaker 1: to see actually kind of what led to big parts
Speaker 1: of the inflation that we've seen in this country and
Speaker 1: around the world. And the culprit. Yeah, it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to be Amazon, even though they seem to be taking
Speaker 1: a lot of heat right now. But I think the
Speaker 1: other thing too, Matt, like this should cause us to
Speaker 1: maybe rethink our prime membership, maybe rethink how much you're
Speaker 1: spending on Amazon. Sometimes it's this knee jerk thing, and
Speaker 1: so it's not even necessarily they're contributing to outsized inflation.
Speaker 1: But it's just the fact that we buy more stuff
Speaker 1: than we should because it's so darn easy. Maybe that
Speaker 1: that's the problem, at least from an individual consumer standpoint,
Speaker 1: is that we're buying things that we could probably avoid
Speaker 1: purchasing altogether, but we just do it because it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's super simple, as right at our fingertips. It's just
Speaker 1: a behavior change, I guess that we need to make.
Speaker 1: But Matt, we've got more to get to on this episode,
Speaker 1: including what if you could trade stocks all day, every day,
Speaker 1: including on Christmas. Well, that might be in the cards
Speaker 1: in the near term future. We'll talk about that and
Speaker 1: more right after this.
Speaker 2: All right, man, we are back from the break. We're
Speaker 2: gonna get to that twenty four to seven stock trading
Speaker 2: story here in a minute. But first we have our
Speaker 2: ludicrous headline of the week, and this one is from
Speaker 2: the Journal. The headline reads the headache at the end
Speaker 2: of the Costco Gold Rush, and not surprising that there's
Speaker 2: a story about gold. It's pretty hot right now. It's
Speaker 2: actually been on a tear as of late.
Speaker 1: And of course hot like Hansol from wess Lander.
Speaker 2: And the price of something goes up, the interest to
Speaker 2: invest in that thing it increases dramatically as well. And
Speaker 2: good folks over at Costco, they started selling gold bars
Speaker 2: last year sometime, and because of Costco's business model, they
Speaker 2: actually don't mark things up much at So what that
Speaker 2: means is that these bars are selling out in minutes
Speaker 2: when they go on sale. And interestingly enough, gold it's
Speaker 2: actually done better than the SMP five hundred over the
Speaker 2: past five years, like not by like a ton, but
Speaker 2: it has performed better. And so you might be thinking,
Speaker 2: all right, this is it time for Matt and Joel
Speaker 2: to finally change their tune a little bit. Are they
Speaker 2: going to start Hey, precious metals from from here on out? No,
Speaker 2: bury them in your backyard. That's not what we're here
Speaker 2: to say. Because when you zoom out, even though it's
Speaker 2: outperformed the SMP in recent years, but like zoom out ten,
Speaker 2: twenty thirty, zoom out one hundred years, let's say there's
Speaker 2: no competition at all, the SMP stocks outperform gold by
Speaker 2: a significant margin. Not that we're investing for a century
Speaker 2: from now. But history shows that productive companies that they
Speaker 2: are going to offer better returns than just a shiny
Speaker 2: object that we dug out of the ground that we
Speaker 2: decided is worth a whole lot of money.
Speaker 1: With the gold people, they come out of the woodwork
Speaker 1: at times like this, Matt and they are it seems
Speaker 1: like they have more credibility, more gravita, and more people
Speaker 1: end up listening to them because guess what, when gold
Speaker 1: has been outperforming, it makes our case seem more credible.
Speaker 1: But the whole point of this article was that it's
Speaker 1: hard and costly to get rid of your gold bar.
Speaker 1: So let's say even the S and P and gold
Speaker 1: continued to kind of march in lockstep for a little while.
Speaker 1: Similar returns. Where where do you sell the gold that
Speaker 1: you're buying Facebook marketplace? I mean that sounds like you're
Speaker 1: going to get robbed if you're doing that right. Gold
Speaker 1: is a very ill liquid asset, and it's an inefficient
Speaker 1: market for buying and selling, and so if you sell
Speaker 1: your gold online, you might get a low ball offer
Speaker 1: and then have to pay for shipping and insurance fees
Speaker 1: on top of that, which means that even if the
Speaker 1: price is gone up you don't get basically the entire
Speaker 1: price increase of the gold you purchase. And so although yeah,
Speaker 1: we've seen price the price of gold go up significantly
Speaker 1: in recent years, that doesn't mean that it's a no
Speaker 1: brainer through out there and buy physical gold. Even if
Speaker 1: it's sold via a site like costco and you're getting
Speaker 1: a decent deal on it, it'd be better to buy
Speaker 1: it in a low cost etf if you really feel
Speaker 1: like you need some exposure. We don't own any of
Speaker 1: these funds ourselves, but I Shares have some inexpensive gold
Speaker 1: funds if that's your jam, but you probably already have,
Speaker 1: or you're probably going to hear more pitches for gold
Speaker 1: and for gold funds and.
Speaker 2: As long as it continues to increase.
Speaker 1: But I think, just like drugs, Matt, you just say no,
Speaker 1: let's talk about Wall Street, because some changes might be
Speaker 1: coming to how it is that you can trade the
Speaker 1: New York Stock Exchange.
Speaker 2: They're taking a pull on weather or not they should
Speaker 2: offer stock trading twenty four to seven basically, and that's
Speaker 2: because it seems that more folks want this. There's a
Speaker 2: trading platform called twenty four Exchange. They are petitioning the
Speaker 2: SEC to try and become the first platform that allows
Speaker 2: for around the clock buying and selling. And you might say, well, guys,
Speaker 2: doesn't Robinhood already do this? Don't sound like news. This
Speaker 2: is something that you've discussed before, and that's true. But
Speaker 2: while you can buy and sell off hours on Robinhood,
Speaker 2: it's not full unfettered market access all the time. Those trades,
Speaker 2: they're conducted in a few different ways, like including trades
Speaker 2: with Asian countries where it's daytime. But bottom line, we're
Speaker 2: just not fans of this attempt. I think an always
Speaker 2: open trading window obviously it's going to incentivize more trading
Speaker 2: because it's twenty four to seven. Just like, let's see,
Speaker 2: would there be anybody going to Walmart in the middle
Speaker 2: of the night if they weren't open twenty four to seven? No,
Speaker 2: people like the reason somebody is there at three in
Speaker 2: the morning is because it's open. But then, how do
Speaker 2: investors lose money? Well, they well, listeners here at How
Speaker 2: to Money know that the more often you trade and speculate,
Speaker 2: then pay attention to the news. The more often, the
Speaker 2: more frequently you trade, the more likely you are going
Speaker 2: to be to lose money in the short term as
Speaker 2: opposed to being a long term investor.
Speaker 1: It's like a Fidelity study back in the day map
Speaker 1: that found that the best investors were folks who actually.
Speaker 2: Passed away were dead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they weren't tinkering with their with their portfolios.
Speaker 1: They stayed the course. And there is a power in
Speaker 1: staying the course. And so yeah, if you're incentivized to
Speaker 1: be on the app more, trading more regularly, you are
Speaker 1: going to come out, typically in the losing position. As
Speaker 1: someone said on Reddit, yes I did look in the
Speaker 1: Reddit message boards on this one. They said, think of
Speaker 1: all the time you weigh sleeping, you could be scoring
Speaker 1: free dopamine hits. I think that's true. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: why I think people opt to you know, opt to
Speaker 1: download those apps and trade on the rag. It's not
Speaker 1: typically because they think they're going to get rich. It's
Speaker 1: because it's a source of fun, I think. But that
Speaker 1: source of fun often leads to losing money. And I
Speaker 1: think if this does happen, it's up to us as
Speaker 1: individuals to tune it out right similar the way, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we have to tune out the twenty four to seven
Speaker 1: news cycle because there's really not that much news that
Speaker 1: we really, actually, truly need to know. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of repetition and sensationalism that's not good for our human brains.
Speaker 1: But heck, they've got time slots to fill. So similarly,
Speaker 1: just because you might be able to trade stalks whenever
Speaker 1: the heck you want it doesn't mean that it's a
Speaker 1: good idea. Will this come to fruition? I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I guess yeah. I'm rooting in the please don't
Speaker 1: do this game. He is going to break more people's brains.
Speaker 2: By the way, So you mentioned downloading the apps and
Speaker 2: where you might be addicted or pulled or lured into
Speaker 2: trading more often, and I know you've got Robin Hood
Speaker 2: in your crosshairs are as you're making that comment.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to hate.
Speaker 2: The reason I'm mentioning this is because this is I
Speaker 2: guess the last week. Yeah, because by next Friday flight,
Speaker 2: when we be yes the match, the IRA match will
Speaker 2: be over. And so if you have been considering that,
Speaker 2: you've gotten until the end of April, at the end
Speaker 2: of this month, so you don't have very many more
Speaker 2: days to take advantage of an IRA match from a
Speaker 2: brokerage that is not your employer. As long as you
Speaker 2: can avoid trading the stonks.
Speaker 1: It's just like Joel said, you got to be able
Speaker 1: to tune that out or it's not worth it. It's
Speaker 1: not worth it because you'll lose more than you gained.
Speaker 1: All Right, Matt I heard from a listener this week
Speaker 1: about where to keep investing dollars that he's keeping on
Speaker 1: the sidelines for now. So he's got one of those
Speaker 1: fun money accounts that we talk about where it's less
Speaker 1: than five percent five percent or less of his overall assets,
Speaker 1: and he's got but he's been investing for a long time,
Speaker 1: so he's got a decent chunk of changing in there.
Speaker 1: And he's got thirty to forty grand he said, that's
Speaker 1: sitting on the sidelines. He's not really to invest it
Speaker 1: in a stock yet. He's like doing his due diligence,
Speaker 1: doing his research. But he was with a brokerage that
Speaker 1: didn't pay almost anything on the money that he had
Speaker 1: on the sideline. So I had to encourage me to
Speaker 1: talk about how yields on money market funds have shot
Speaker 1: up to the five percent range of some of those
Speaker 1: brokerage firms these days.
Speaker 2: Right, So if he was with Robinhood. Again, that's truly
Speaker 2: where this is my last plug for this episode for
Speaker 2: robin Hood. I'm pretty sure it's that five and a
Speaker 2: quarter right now for uninvested money.
Speaker 1: They also have never sponsored hot money, so this is
Speaker 1: they never have goodness of your.
Speaker 2: Heart, and over time I just have changed my toom
Speaker 2: and what it is that they're offering.
Speaker 1: I just I want to just direct people to that though,
Speaker 1: because if you do have money sitting on the sidelines
Speaker 1: at a brokerage firm, that's fine, Like you don't have
Speaker 1: to invest it at tomorrow if you're kind of waiting
Speaker 1: while around while you do some research, but make sure
Speaker 1: that you know that your money is actually receiving some
Speaker 1: sort of reasonable interest payment while it is sitting idle.
Speaker 1: And so you want to make sure you're earning something
Speaker 1: while you're trying to figure out how to proceed. And yeah,
Speaker 1: five percent is a rate you should expect I think now,
Speaker 1: like Betterments five and a half percent, Robinhood five percent
Speaker 1: fidelity is basically five percent too. And I guess the
Speaker 1: other thing to mention here as well is to not
Speaker 1: let money linger on the sidelines for too long, because
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people said ooh, earning five
Speaker 1: percent on savings. This is great, And money that they
Speaker 1: would have otherwise invested, they kept on the sidelines, Matt,
Speaker 1: And that is not where you want to find yourself
Speaker 1: because as the market's been roaring, you don't know when
Speaker 1: to get in. Didn't find yourself trying to time the market.
Speaker 1: That's not a great place to be. It's nice to
Speaker 1: have five percent returns, but make sure it's five percent
Speaker 1: returns on savings, not for money that should have been invested,
Speaker 1: but that you've been kind of just waiting too long
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, short term goal cash that you're planning to spend
Speaker 2: in the near term, yep. Perfect. Otherwise, make sure those
Speaker 2: dollars are invested so you're not missing out on some
Speaker 2: of those big gains. And speaking of wasted money, do
Speaker 2: you see the story Americans are throwing away like sixty
Speaker 2: eight million dollars in coins each and every year. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so this is I think just another reason to go
Speaker 2: digital perhaps, but a sustainable waste processing company. They're making
Speaker 2: a business out of separating coins from trash in an
Speaker 2: attempt to save these coins and to make a profit.
Speaker 2: And in seven years they've collected ten million dollars in profit,
Speaker 2: which I gotta say, that's a it's a lot of
Speaker 2: money from picking up change from the side sidewalk.
Speaker 1: What do they do? They take like big sacks and
Speaker 1: take it to the coinstar machine.
Speaker 2: They filtered out, you know. But so this leads me
Speaker 2: to ask you, Joel, I doubt you are bending over
Speaker 2: and strain your back to pick up a single penny.
Speaker 2: But how big of a coin does it need to
Speaker 2: be before you're reaching for it on the sidewalk?
Speaker 1: Depends how dirty it is. I guess it's a clean quarter.
Speaker 2: You know what, Even if it's a clean penny, I
Speaker 2: would pick that up. But yeah, like basically the dirtier
Speaker 2: it is, the higher the payoff needs to be because
Speaker 2: of the yuck factor. If it's a.
Speaker 1: Filthy dollar, I'll pick it up.
Speaker 2: Would you really?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it depends on not the filthiest if
Speaker 1: it's like it really really well, It's like when I
Speaker 1: there's a filthy, wet money that was that I picked
Speaker 1: up this is several months ago in the street.
Speaker 2: Well that was like multiple bills. You better believe I'm
Speaker 2: gonna pick that up. Yeah, Like I didn't care what
Speaker 2: it was sitting in and wash it and wash it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think you're right. It very much has
Speaker 2: to do with how dirty or how clean it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just interesting to see some of the
Speaker 1: pictures of how they they clean some of the coins
Speaker 1: that they find, and actually a decent chunk of the
Speaker 1: coins even after cleaning, they're like unusable because they're destroyed
Speaker 1: to that extent. But yeah, really really interesting.
Speaker 2: Speaking of destroying money, I've I've been promising the kids
Speaker 2: that we would go up to the road track and
Speaker 2: tape some coins to the track that next some of
Speaker 2: the train platinum. I'm sure that's like illegal and you're
Speaker 2: actually not even supposed to do that, but I just
Speaker 2: remember doing that as a kid. Yeah, and I feel
Speaker 2: like that's the kind of that's a good wholesome being. Yeah,
Speaker 2: isn't it like be very careful, like stay away from
Speaker 2: the tracks when they're I don't know, I'm sure somebody's
Speaker 2: gonna criticize me for talking about playing around the road
Speaker 2: tracks with kids.
Speaker 1: Well, we also just need to do away with the penny.
Speaker 1: By the way, We've been talking about that and that's
Speaker 1: been talked about for a long time, but pennies cost
Speaker 1: more to create eight then they're actually and it's just
Speaker 1: it's silly that we still have pennies. Can we just
Speaker 1: get rid of them? Please? Maybe even the Nichols at
Speaker 1: the same time, just abolisher both down with Nikels. But
Speaker 1: we don't need them.
Speaker 2: There were five cents. We have five fingers on each hand.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Something about that seems.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, it's probably good for counting purposes, helping your
Speaker 1: kids learn how account but other than that, but pennies
Speaker 1: are just.
Speaker 2: Like completely all right.
Speaker 1: Well, last story, real quick, don't miss out on free
Speaker 1: French fry Friday. You gotta download the Wendy's app to participate,
Speaker 1: and you have to buy something to get the free fries.
Speaker 1: Have to sacrifice your personal information. Man, you remember Wendy's
Speaker 1: fries used to be the worst. They used to be trash.
Speaker 1: I think they've oupgraded them. I think they've gotten better
Speaker 1: in recent years. But I don't know. Maybe it's not
Speaker 1: even worth it.
Speaker 2: They're fine with me. Did you ever get Did you
Speaker 2: ever get the Wendy's Frosty key tag? Oh yeah, kitchen tag.
Speaker 1: For like a buck, you get ten pre Frosty's.
Speaker 2: No, it's like I thought it was a couple of Bucks,
Speaker 2: and then every time you placed any order, you just
Speaker 2: show them your tag and you get a free Frosty.
Speaker 2: And there's one year that Kate is when we're doing
Speaker 2: photography and we're spending a lot of time on the road,
Speaker 2: we're eating a decent amount of fat food, including Wendy's.
Speaker 2: You better believe that we took full advantage of our
Speaker 2: frosty keysag dude, Oh yeah, I don't think it was
Speaker 2: very good for our health though, No, probably not. I
Speaker 2: mean literally, I don't think I've ever eaten so many frosties.
Speaker 2: Then I did that because, especially in the summer when
Speaker 2: it's hot, who doesn't want to wash it all down
Speaker 2: with a nice frost.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, They're delicious, one of the best things
Speaker 1: on the Wendy's menu.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't do it now though, I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: too much of a I'm turning into a health nut
Speaker 2: and the thought of that now just kind of it
Speaker 2: preemptively makes me feel naxious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just how I am. Now, all right, that's
Speaker 1: going to do it for this episode. Thank you as
Speaker 1: always for listening. By the way, we just celebrated our
Speaker 1: two year newsletter Adversary this week and so if you
Speaker 1: haven't signed up with the How of Money newsletter, it's
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Speaker 1: sign up at how to Money dot com slash newsletter.
Speaker 1: It's free, comes to your inbox every Tuesday morning. Well. Also,
Speaker 1: I have show notes up on our website with links
Speaker 1: to some of the articles we mentioned at how tomoney
Speaker 1: dot com.
Speaker 2: That's right. I have a great weekend. We'll see you
Speaker 2: back here on Monday. Until next time, Buddy, best Friend's
Speaker 2: Outum best friends ends out.
Speaker 1: Remember the junior cups. You don't feel too bad. M