WEBVTT - Ep. 2 - Shattering The System: "They Told Him To Go Away"

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<v Speaker 1>In this podcast, we're going to talk frankly but sensitively

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<v Speaker 1>about issues some people might find disturbing, including rape and suicide.

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<v Speaker 1>If you or someone you know is suicidal in the

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<v Speaker 1>US Down nine eighty eight, check out this podcast notes

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<v Speaker 1>page for information on LGBT plus mental health resources in

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<v Speaker 1>your community.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sitting on the stoop of an apartment that has

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<v Speaker 2>become kind of infamous in West Hollywood. There's some words

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<v Speaker 2>that will just always stay with you. This is one

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<v Speaker 2>sentence that has stuck with everyone who's worked on this podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>If it didn't I hurt so bad, I kill myself,

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<v Speaker 3>but I'll let ed Buck do it for now.

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<v Speaker 2>That's an actor reading Jamelle Morre's diary. We're going to

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<v Speaker 2>use an actor to bring voice to his words, and

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of feel like a bears repeating in my

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<v Speaker 2>own voice. If it didn't hurt so bad, I kill myself,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'll let Buck do it for now. Jamel Moore

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<v Speaker 2>wrote those words well, he could have been any twenty

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<v Speaker 2>six year old who found himself exploring the fun and

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<v Speaker 2>not so fun parts of West Hollywood. The thing is

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<v Speaker 2>he wasn't just any twenty six year old. And if

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<v Speaker 2>he had been I wouldn't be standing on the street

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<v Speaker 2>talking about him. Jammel Moore was, among other things, a diarist,

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<v Speaker 2>and like Queen Victoria and Frank and Andy Warhol, he

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<v Speaker 2>poured his emotions into a journal.

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<v Speaker 3>I honestly don't know what to do. Become addicted to drugs,

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<v Speaker 3>the worst one at that.

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<v Speaker 2>Jammel's diary tells the world that it was ed Buck

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<v Speaker 2>who got him addicted to crystal meth amphetamine. Meth can

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<v Speaker 2>be taken in many forms, pill forms, snorting. The most

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<v Speaker 2>common practice is smoking, but like many drugs, injecting it

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<v Speaker 2>makes the high more immediate as well as doing more damage.

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<v Speaker 3>Ed Buck one to think he gave me my first

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<v Speaker 3>injection of crystal myth. It was painful, but after all

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<v Speaker 3>the troubles, I became addicted to the pain and the fetish.

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<v Speaker 2>In this episode, we're going to talk about the crimes

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<v Speaker 2>of ed Buck. The thing is, I don't believe he's alone.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually I know he's not alone.

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<v Speaker 4>After Jamuel was gone, I didn't all think that it

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<v Speaker 4>was going to be swept under the rug like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Samuel Lloyd was a very good friend of Jamel. These

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<v Speaker 2>clips that we're going to hear are from a documentary

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<v Speaker 2>Jammel in tim It.

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<v Speaker 4>Was a surreal realization of how invaluable my life is.

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<v Speaker 4>A black gay man was.

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<v Speaker 2>The rawness and the anger of Jamel's friends. It's right

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<v Speaker 2>there on the surface. You know, for every beautiful young

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<v Speaker 2>man that shows up in West Hollywood to have fun,

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<v Speaker 2>make a life, or let's be honest, escape most parts

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<v Speaker 2>of the United States, it feels like there's just a

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<v Speaker 2>team of vultures sitting on the fence waiting for him

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<v Speaker 2>to fuck up. A hard truth is that it is

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<v Speaker 2>financially hard for queer people. There is a myth that

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<v Speaker 2>gay men, for instance, are financially better off. I'm an

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<v Speaker 2>economics reporter and a gay man, and in my expert opinion,

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<v Speaker 2>that notion is the purest form of bullshit. The series,

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<v Speaker 2>the show is about power and how it's used. You

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<v Speaker 2>have men like Jamel Moore or his friend Samuel Lloyd struggling,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you have ed Buck and he is not

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<v Speaker 2>alone sitting on the fence waiting.

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<v Speaker 4>You like to be in new places and be where

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<v Speaker 4>nobody knew him, and you know, be the boy.

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<v Speaker 2>That was mysterious.

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<v Speaker 4>He didn't talk very much and you know, and just

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<v Speaker 4>kind of give a little bit, give a little bit

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<v Speaker 4>here and a little bit there, and maybe do a

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<v Speaker 4>little bit something crazy and then just doesn't hear you

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<v Speaker 4>love doing that.

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<v Speaker 2>The difference between Jamel Moore and other victims is that

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<v Speaker 2>Jamel wrote his problems down.

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<v Speaker 3>Man, something is seriously wrong with me and my body.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't feel normal. I honestly think he has to

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<v Speaker 3>do with the judge. It makes me feel horrible, like

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<v Speaker 3>I'm so tired of living this life.

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<v Speaker 2>As sad as those words are, Jammel's diary allowed him

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<v Speaker 2>something and death that he'd never received in life. His

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<v Speaker 2>diary is how Jammel Moore was heard. It was his

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<v Speaker 2>diary that allowed his mother to understand what happened. It

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<v Speaker 2>was his diary that resonated with so many queer people,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was his diary that helped the local journalists

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<v Speaker 2>start a movement that would strike at the core of

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<v Speaker 2>political life in Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 5>I I've been to jail, I I've been ragged and

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<v Speaker 5>being many time. I've lont my job, I've lost my apartment.

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<v Speaker 2>This is shattering the systems. The true crime podcast that's

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<v Speaker 2>about more than Crome. The life of Jamel Moore after

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<v Speaker 2>this break In two thousand and nine, Jamel Moore arrived

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<v Speaker 2>in Los Angeles, and like so many gay black men

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<v Speaker 2>before him, he almost immediately got involved with ballroom or

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<v Speaker 2>ball culture. Jamel joined the House of Combe, the Garsans,

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<v Speaker 2>headed by the transactivist Gia Banks. Now, ballroom is kind

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<v Speaker 2>of hard to describe, but I need to take more

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<v Speaker 2>than a moment, especially given the climate of anti gay,

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<v Speaker 2>anti trans, and anti drag laws in the US right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Ballroom is a kind of competition where different houses compete

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<v Speaker 2>against each other. Essentially and what I would all the

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<v Speaker 2>Olympics of drag. They have to think of drag in

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<v Speaker 2>this context as broadly as possible. It's about whether or

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<v Speaker 2>not you can pull off the look or serve realness.

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<v Speaker 2>There are all kinds of categories schoolboy, traditional, drag, military.

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<v Speaker 6>If I was to see look at you and guess

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<v Speaker 6>your category, I would say it would be which queen

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<v Speaker 6>realness bring it in a sports effect.

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<v Speaker 2>I needed some help explaining bal culture in its place

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<v Speaker 2>in black gay life.

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<v Speaker 6>My name is Sean Torrenton. I am one of the

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<v Speaker 6>founders of Slave TV, the premier destination for LGBTQ entertainment.

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<v Speaker 2>Shawn is currently a member of the House of Basquiat,

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<v Speaker 2>but he and Jamel were once a member of the

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<v Speaker 2>same house, though they never knowingly cross pass. But we

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to talk to Sean in part because, well, my

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<v Speaker 2>producers and I have become really fascinated with bald culture

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<v Speaker 2>and how it kind of forms a safety debt for black,

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<v Speaker 2>gay and trans folks.

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<v Speaker 6>Just growing up like a ball would be considered a

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<v Speaker 6>safe space for black and like latinx LGBTQ folks, particularly

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<v Speaker 6>who are like often facing like multiple layers of discrimination

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<v Speaker 6>and marginal marginalists, marginalism, marginalization.

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<v Speaker 2>I always fuck that word up.

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<v Speaker 6>Excuse me another word just discrimination and just being outcasted

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<v Speaker 6>from society and the communities made up of houses which

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<v Speaker 6>are like essentially chosen families that provide a sense of

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<v Speaker 6>like belonging and acceptance and families for everyone within the house.

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<v Speaker 2>Importantly for this story, Sean Torrenton has been a part

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<v Speaker 2>of ball culture in New York and LA.

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<v Speaker 6>So I would say LA ballroom is keeping it all

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<v Speaker 6>school because it's the smallest scene. LA is about like

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<v Speaker 6>everybody's just enjoying eachself is family. When when you go

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<v Speaker 6>to the ball everybody's love and everybody just know each

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<v Speaker 6>other and everybody's connected somehow, So I do of that

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<v Speaker 6>aspect of the la ballroom scene.

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<v Speaker 2>The latest iteration of ball culture got its start alongside

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<v Speaker 2>the age crisis in New York during the nineteen eighties,

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<v Speaker 2>and movies like Paris Is Burning brought ball culture above ground.

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<v Speaker 2>In the nineties, when baal culture reached kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>cultural peak, I snuck off to more than my fair

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<v Speaker 2>share in New York from college. That was an important

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<v Speaker 2>part of my coming out. Sean says, it's important to

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<v Speaker 2>understand why black and LATINX queer folk are so drawn

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<v Speaker 2>to this world.

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<v Speaker 6>The draw to this world is, you know, well as

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<v Speaker 6>far as like and I'm just gonna say me, when

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<v Speaker 6>you are a young kid and you are you know,

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<v Speaker 6>you didn't come from a privileged background, and the only

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<v Speaker 6>way out of your situation is through imagination. But then

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<v Speaker 6>you come to a place where everybody is living in

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<v Speaker 6>this fantasy and you getting all these cheers and all

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<v Speaker 6>these accolades because you are being your full authentic self.

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<v Speaker 6>That draws people in, and you are considered a celebrity

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<v Speaker 6>in that community, that would draw anybody in. It's fame

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<v Speaker 6>is what we all want. But even though you people

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<v Speaker 6>say they don't want it, everybody wants a little bit

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<v Speaker 6>of it.

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<v Speaker 2>While doing research for this show, I found the writings

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<v Speaker 2>of Channing Gerard Joseph. He's a queer author in a

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<v Speaker 2>Storian He traced the roots of drag and his child

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<v Speaker 2>ballroom or ball culture back to Washington, d c. Of

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<v Speaker 2>the eighteen eighties, and according to Joseph, essentially drag was

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<v Speaker 2>founded in protest against homophobia and racism when a former

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<v Speaker 2>slave named William Dorsey Swan became the first queer activist.

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<v Speaker 2>He was arrested for protesting new laws that were being

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<v Speaker 2>enacted at the time that made dressing as the opposite

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<v Speaker 2>sex illegal. This was the same time that voting rights

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<v Speaker 2>were being taken away from former slaves. Sound familiar, Well,

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<v Speaker 2>the former slave William Swan became the first documented person

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<v Speaker 2>to proclaim himself a queen of Drag or simply the

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<v Speaker 2>Queen Sean Torrington says, you can see a direct line

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<v Speaker 2>between the protests and community that William Swan created in

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<v Speaker 2>the ball community that he, Jamel and I were a

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<v Speaker 2>part of.

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<v Speaker 6>A lot of times people don't even have a place

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<v Speaker 6>to sleep, you know, they walk these balls for the

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<v Speaker 6>cash categories so they can pay their rent. This is

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<v Speaker 6>their way to make money. Some girls, in order to survive,

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<v Speaker 6>they have to escorre, you know, sex works.

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<v Speaker 2>Many of the houses now have relationships with brands and

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<v Speaker 2>social service organizations. The house that Sean Torrington is a

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<v Speaker 2>part of now is able to provide some housing, about

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<v Speaker 2>ten to fifteen units, but that is a drop in

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<v Speaker 2>the bucket when you consider that the homeless population of

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<v Speaker 2>Los Angeles County it's about seventy six thousand on any

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<v Speaker 2>given night. Jamel Moore found the same escape in being

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<v Speaker 2>himself as the former slave William Swan did in the

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen eighties, that I did in the nineteen nineties, or

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<v Speaker 2>that O'shee Sibley, the dancer who was murdered at twenty

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<v Speaker 2>eight in Brooklyn did this summer. He was murdered for

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<v Speaker 2>dancing voguing. That's a dance that goes all the way

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<v Speaker 2>back to a dance called the cakewalk, a dance that

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<v Speaker 2>slaves did. The rent in Los Angeles is now and

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<v Speaker 2>was too damn high. When Jamel got to LA it

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<v Speaker 2>was hard for him to have steady, reliable housing. He

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<v Speaker 2>bounced around between friends, couches, and sometimes sleep on the streets. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>while bal culture is a real thing and the relations

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<v Speaker 2>chips are real, it's not like joining the house comes

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<v Speaker 2>with a job. Samuel Lloyd says so eloquently, if you're

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<v Speaker 2>not making two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in Los Angeles,

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<v Speaker 2>you're certainly not living in the American dream. Now, with

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<v Speaker 2>not a lot of job prospects, it's not hard to

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<v Speaker 2>see how a handsome young man would turn to sex work,

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<v Speaker 2>especially in a town with a lot of rich gay men,

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<v Speaker 2>many of them closeted offering hundreds of dollars for sex.

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<v Speaker 7>It is the person who has everything and offers you

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<v Speaker 7>everything with this particular type of risk, i e.

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<v Speaker 2>The math and the sex.

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<v Speaker 7>Those type of offers are A young, poor black queer

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<v Speaker 7>person has to balance out. Do I eat today, do

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<v Speaker 7>I have shelter today? And do I engage in this

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<v Speaker 7>activity that may be dangerous, But at least I ate,

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<v Speaker 7>At least I have money in my pocket. At least

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<v Speaker 7>I'm gonna be okay for a days.

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<v Speaker 2>It's around this time that Jamel told a friend that

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<v Speaker 2>he was seeing a white john in West Hollywood who

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<v Speaker 2>had messaged him on.

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<v Speaker 5>Adam for Adam so Jamel Moore new Buck for a

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<v Speaker 5>long time. They kind of had not, I guess a

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<v Speaker 5>very long time, but they had a long standing relationship

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<v Speaker 5>that was predicated on party and play.

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<v Speaker 2>Lindsay Bailey is one of the federal prosecutors who would

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<v Speaker 2>eventually try at Buck.

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<v Speaker 5>So essentially, party in play is what would happen. Is

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<v Speaker 5>Jammel would go over to mister Buck's house. Buck would

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<v Speaker 5>provide him with methamphetamine, and in exchange, they would engage

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<v Speaker 5>in some sort of sexual play. So sometimes just touching,

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<v Speaker 5>a lot of times it would be you know, sexual photographs,

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<v Speaker 5>different types of photographs.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to get back to Lindsay Bailey, the prosecutor,

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<v Speaker 2>but I need to explain party and play for those

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<v Speaker 2>who don't know. In the gay world, party has taken

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<v Speaker 2>on a completeletely different meaning. Alex Garner is an author

0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.360
<v Speaker 2>and activist. He's also a former sex worker.

0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 8>Party in play is simply a reference to using drugs

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.679
<v Speaker 8>while having sex. Usually that means the use of crystal

0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.560
<v Speaker 8>meth while having sex. It usually means for an extended

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:21.760
<v Speaker 8>period of time.

0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Because the high from crystal can hit quickly, but mats

0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.200
<v Speaker 2>almost as quick and also if you use. Often people

0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 2>get into a cycle of binge and crash, and that

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 2>can lead to going on the run, which means giving

0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 2>up food and sleep while continuing to take meth every

0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.360
<v Speaker 2>few hours and have sex for several days.

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:45.320
<v Speaker 8>And then, in terms of when it became sort of

0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.200
<v Speaker 8>part of the vernacular of the culture partying play within

0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.000
<v Speaker 8>the per contexts that usually almost referred to almost always

0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.480
<v Speaker 8>referred to crystal meth or some meth was almost always

0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:58.040
<v Speaker 8>involved in some way. Even though drug use could range

0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 8>from marijuana to ecstasy, to to kintamine to cocaine, chrystal

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.000
<v Speaker 8>meth became the sort of lightning rod when we talked

0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:07.880
<v Speaker 8>about party and play in the US context.

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.040
<v Speaker 5>And sometimes Jamal would be paid for those sessions in cash.

0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.920
<v Speaker 5>Sometimes it would just be in drugs and they would

0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.960
<v Speaker 5>both smoke methamphetamine. But what Buck really liked to do

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 5>was slam, so that's injecting methamphetamine directly into your veins.

0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.880
<v Speaker 5>And they had that relationship for a long time.

0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 3>I pray that I can just get my life together

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.880
<v Speaker 3>and make it make sense. I hope so many people,

0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.720
<v Speaker 3>but I can't seem to help myself. I honestly don't

0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 3>know what to do become addicted to drugs, and the

0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.800
<v Speaker 3>worst one at that. Ed Buck is the one to think.

0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 3>He gave me my first injection of crystal myth. It

0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:54.560
<v Speaker 3>was painful, but after all the troubles, I became addicted

0:15:54.560 --> 0:16:00.360
<v Speaker 3>to the pain and the fantasy.

0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.880
<v Speaker 2>You can hear the pain and anguish. Jamel did the

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.920
<v Speaker 2>best he possibly could to break his addiction. You know,

0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:08.880
<v Speaker 2>I got to say, it's not just the fact that

0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:13.240
<v Speaker 2>ed Buck introduced Jamel to slamming that's so appalling, or

0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 2>the way he treated his victims, it was the illusion

0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.640
<v Speaker 2>that he cared about them. There are so many gay

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.200
<v Speaker 2>white men who I've run into who say shit like

0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm not racist, I love black men, or I only

0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.680
<v Speaker 2>date black men, but then every single part of how

0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:34.080
<v Speaker 2>they act dehumanizes black men. I'm one hundred percent no,

0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm actually a one thousand percent sure that ed Buck

0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 2>said that he loved black men. But here's the thing.

0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 2>Ed Buck paid black men to do crystal meth so

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 2>that he could take pictures of them in underwear, and

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.880
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't really interested in sex necessarily, but he paid

0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:55.280
<v Speaker 2>to humiliate and torture black men. For instance, he paid

0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.760
<v Speaker 2>them to let him call them nigger.

0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:03.200
<v Speaker 9>Seeking out men in that category and providing them food, shelter,

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:08.240
<v Speaker 9>and drugs, You know, are the signs of somebody with

0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:09.520
<v Speaker 9>a scheme in mind.

0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:12.399
<v Speaker 2>When a white man is paying you to call you

0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:16.199
<v Speaker 2>a nigger, he ain't your friend. This was something that

0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Jamel Moore understood. He was horrified and troubled by what

0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.200
<v Speaker 2>ed Buck was making him do, and in the fall

0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.959
<v Speaker 2>of twenty sixteen, Jamel called his mother in tears, screaming

0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.879
<v Speaker 2>into the phone, saying, this man shot me up with

0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.919
<v Speaker 2>some stuff. I don't even know what it is. And

0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.439
<v Speaker 2>by the way, he did everything he could to quote

0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.800
<v Speaker 2>handle his life well, which meant getting the fuck away

0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.960
<v Speaker 2>from ed Buck now. With help from friends, he did

0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.080
<v Speaker 2>just that, moving back to his family in Texas in

0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:50.080
<v Speaker 2>the spring of twenty seventeen. So many of the things

0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.199
<v Speaker 2>that he needed to get his life together, they just

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.399
<v Speaker 2>weren't available to Jamel. For instance, he was beyond the

0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.160
<v Speaker 2>age of being able to be on his parents' health insurance,

0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 2>was in withdrawal. He needed more than willpower, He probably

0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 2>needed consistent medical care, trauma therapy, rehab a detox is.

0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:14.280
<v Speaker 2>Withdrawal symptoms were mistaken for pneumonia, Lindsey Bailey picks up

0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:15.440
<v Speaker 2>the timeline.

0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:21.160
<v Speaker 5>In July of twenty seventeen. I think Jamel was an

0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:25.720
<v Speaker 5>addict and needed another fix, essentially, and so he reached

0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:27.520
<v Speaker 5>out to the person that he knew would reliably get

0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.720
<v Speaker 5>it to him. He sent Buck a text message that

0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.439
<v Speaker 5>said I've been missing La, along with a video of

0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 5>somebody being slammed with methamphetamine and a question mark. Buck

0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.320
<v Speaker 5>responded with I believe the text was along the lines

0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.600
<v Speaker 5>of be here now, and he bought Jamel a one

0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:51.679
<v Speaker 5>way ticket from Texas to Los Angeles. Jamel took a

0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:55.800
<v Speaker 5>backpack and basically everything he owned, got on that plane

0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.280
<v Speaker 5>and flew from Texas to Los Angeles. Buck sent someone

0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.360
<v Speaker 5>to pick him up from the airport. The driver picked

0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:04.679
<v Speaker 5>him up at I believe it was about one PM,

0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:06.840
<v Speaker 5>and he got to Buck's apartment at about one forty

0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:10.280
<v Speaker 5>five PM, went inside and never came out.

0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.800
<v Speaker 2>No one knows exactly what happened after Jammel walked into

0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:15.520
<v Speaker 2>that apartment.

0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.199
<v Speaker 5>There weren't photos or videos from that day, but we

0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.399
<v Speaker 5>can imagine that it was much like other times in

0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:28.159
<v Speaker 5>which Buck slammed Jammel, probably to the point where he

0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 5>lost consciousness. And died. Buck went to a neighbor to

0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.119
<v Speaker 5>ask what to do. The neighbor started to perform CPR

0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.720
<v Speaker 5>while Buck called nine to one to one, and when

0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:41.360
<v Speaker 5>the paramedics got there, Jammel was already gone.

0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.520
<v Speaker 2>For Los Angeles County Sheriff's deputies responded to a nine

0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:50.679
<v Speaker 2>to one one call from North Laurel Avenue in West Hollywood.

0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.920
<v Speaker 2>A young black man was lying unresponsive on a mattress

0:19:55.480 --> 0:20:00.720
<v Speaker 2>on the floor, naked except for white sox. Tennant's name

0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:05.800
<v Speaker 2>was ed Buck. He described the dead man as his friend.

0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.639
<v Speaker 2>Buck said his friend had ejected meth. A little after that,

0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.280
<v Speaker 2>he said his friend became very warm to the touch.

0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.360
<v Speaker 2>It took ed Buck almost two hours just to pick

0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:25.720
<v Speaker 2>up a phone and call police. This is shattering the system.

0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:36.160
<v Speaker 2>More after this, this is shattering the system. I'm Sonari Glennon.

0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:45.600
<v Speaker 2>When we left off, Jamel Moore lay dead in Edbuck's apartment, cold,

0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:53.440
<v Speaker 2>naked and alone. The last thing Jamel Moore saw would

0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:58.000
<v Speaker 2>have been pretty frightening. Buck's home was genuinely a frightening place.

0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:03.119
<v Speaker 2>He had photos of all kinds of politicians in prominent places,

0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.680
<v Speaker 2>but also there was a ray of gear devil mass

0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:11.320
<v Speaker 2>gas masks, all kinds of paraphernalia. Henry Scott, the former

0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:15.679
<v Speaker 2>editor of Ujoville, said they called Buck's apartment the gates

0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:16.720
<v Speaker 2>of Hell for a.

0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:22.240
<v Speaker 10>Reason, and ed Buck's apartment and insanely he allowed photographs

0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.399
<v Speaker 10>to be taken by some of the text workers. The

0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.879
<v Speaker 10>living room, there's a big matt press on the floor,

0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:34.440
<v Speaker 10>there's a sofa. There are bins of a drug paraphernalia

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:35.040
<v Speaker 10>in store.

0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Ed Buck Long had a reputation for being obsessed with

0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:42.359
<v Speaker 2>black men. Henry Scott, the journalist, talked a lot about

0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:43.840
<v Speaker 2>his obsession with black men.

0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 10>He had several little plastic bins in his living room

0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.800
<v Speaker 10>of white underwear, and he insisted that the young gay

0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:55.320
<v Speaker 10>black men put on whiteies. That was one of the passions.

0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:59.680
<v Speaker 10>He claimed that he actually was friends for these young

0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:03.000
<v Speaker 10>men he used. He told me at one point that

0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.199
<v Speaker 10>Jamel Moore was a young friend of his who he

0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:09.400
<v Speaker 10>had helped through life. That's what he claimed.

0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:16.600
<v Speaker 2>An investigator arrived from the Los Angeles County Medical Examiner's office.

0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.440
<v Speaker 2>On the floor next to Jamel, he noted ziploc bags

0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.399
<v Speaker 2>swelled with water. A rolling toolbox was parked against the wall.

0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Inside were several syringes with brown residue, a scale, lighters,

0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 2>a straw, a glass pipe with burn marks, and a

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:37.840
<v Speaker 2>clear plastic bag containing a crystal like substance. The examiner

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:41.800
<v Speaker 2>was able to unlock his phone using his password nineteen

0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:46.680
<v Speaker 2>ninety one, Jammel's birth year. According to news reports, there

0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:49.600
<v Speaker 2>was a text from American Airlines that said that Jammel

0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:53.800
<v Speaker 2>had flown that morning from Houston to lax. The examiner

0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:58.639
<v Speaker 2>performed an autopsy. There were no signs of visible trauma.

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:03.000
<v Speaker 2>There was, however, puncture wounds visible on his left in

0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:07.439
<v Speaker 2>our forearm. Jamel tested positive from methan fetamine and the

0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:12.000
<v Speaker 2>examiner found quote a notebook located in the decedent's property

0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:17.280
<v Speaker 2>that indicated using intravenous drugs with ed Buck in the past. Again,

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:20.439
<v Speaker 2>reports say that the examiner ruled the death and accidental

0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:25.000
<v Speaker 2>methan fetamine overdose. In less than five days after his death,

0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:36.040
<v Speaker 2>the case was closed. Jamel Moore died on July twenty seventh,

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:40.920
<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen. Meanwhile, ed Buck was a man about town.

0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.800
<v Speaker 2>By the Thursday after Jamel's death, he showed up at

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:48.199
<v Speaker 2>a Wiho City meeting of the Stonewall Steering Committee of

0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.000
<v Speaker 2>the Democratic Party. Now that's a gay arm of the

0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:56.000
<v Speaker 2>local party. There was Buck Chilling, pretending that nothing was wrong.

0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:07.800
<v Speaker 11>Than that shouldn't have happened. It just shouldn't have happened.

0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:15.400
<v Speaker 2>By August first, Jamel's mother, Letitia Nixon, began contacting all

0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.280
<v Speaker 2>kinds of media outlets to try to draw attention to

0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:19.280
<v Speaker 2>the plight of her son.

0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:24.280
<v Speaker 11>My son filed police reports. He's be cried out to

0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:28.439
<v Speaker 11>so many people, and we all failed them. I just

0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:31.440
<v Speaker 11>hope that the Sheriff's department does not fail my son.

0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:35.800
<v Speaker 11>I'm asking for justice. It's crazy how the whole entire

0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:41.240
<v Speaker 11>situation was handled. My son's dead and five days later

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:44.560
<v Speaker 11>the case is closed. I just want justice. That's it.

0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:48.359
<v Speaker 11>My whole life has been turned upside down when you

0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:50.600
<v Speaker 11>fight for the ones you love, and I will not

0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:54.439
<v Speaker 11>stop until I get justice ed. Buck needs to be

0:24:54.600 --> 0:25:00.199
<v Speaker 11>held to accountability for all the things that he's done.

0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Letitia Nixon would soon get the attention of a small

0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:18.720
<v Speaker 2>local website called we Ho Times. The story contained most

0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:22.239
<v Speaker 2>of what Nixon claimed. The story would also contain this

0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:26.160
<v Speaker 2>titbed that would bring the case to national attention, if

0:25:26.160 --> 0:25:29.760
<v Speaker 2>not an arrest. It called ed Buck quote one of

0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:34.399
<v Speaker 2>California's most prolific and substantial political donors, a detail that

0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:38.840
<v Speaker 2>many readers in Los Angeles were completely astonished to hear. Now,

0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:42.280
<v Speaker 2>while the local media began to take notice, the Sheriff's

0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:47.320
<v Speaker 2>office failed to mail more this time around. Lindsay Horvath

0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:49.960
<v Speaker 2>was on the city council when Jamel Moore died. She

0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:53.480
<v Speaker 2>served two terms as mayor, long before the death of

0:25:53.680 --> 0:25:58.600
<v Speaker 2>ed Buck's apartment. They were on the opposite sides. How

0:25:58.640 --> 0:25:59.560
<v Speaker 2>do you choose not align?

0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:03.040
<v Speaker 12>There were any number of issues. I was a big

0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:06.919
<v Speaker 12>affordable housing advocate. He opposed many projects. He lived in

0:26:06.920 --> 0:26:11.159
<v Speaker 12>rent controlled housing, but he was wanting to close the

0:26:11.160 --> 0:26:13.040
<v Speaker 12>door on a lot of people from being a part

0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:15.520
<v Speaker 12>of the West Hollywood community in a lot of different ways.

0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:18.360
<v Speaker 2>What are those? I mean a lot of different ways.

0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:20.639
<v Speaker 2>It seems like there was an eternity in that phrase.

0:26:20.840 --> 0:26:25.800
<v Speaker 12>Well, I think that there's a lot that he did

0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:29.760
<v Speaker 12>that was not about creating an inclusive community, which I

0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:32.240
<v Speaker 12>think a lot of people come to West Hollywood.

0:26:31.760 --> 0:26:37.240
<v Speaker 2>For help me understand where what would frustrate you about, say,

0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 2>the sheriff's deputies and dealing with the death of Jamel Moore.

0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:44.680
<v Speaker 12>Oh wow, it was more than frustration.

0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:48.639
<v Speaker 2>Lindsay Horbath was a council person at the time, her

0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:53.320
<v Speaker 2>frustration with police and especially the sheriff reached a boiling point.

0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:56.720
<v Speaker 12>It was absolutely devastating to hear about the death of

0:26:56.800 --> 0:27:05.840
<v Speaker 12>Jammel Moore. The sheriff's deputies who were involved in the

0:27:05.880 --> 0:27:16.320
<v Speaker 12>investigation had indicated at some point thereafter that it wasn't

0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:20.040
<v Speaker 12>the first time that they had been called to that

0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:26.400
<v Speaker 12>particular residence, and so not only in that specific investigation,

0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:30.480
<v Speaker 12>but just knowing that there are there were ongoing issues

0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:36.960
<v Speaker 12>with that residence and to know that ultimately it resulted

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:40.480
<v Speaker 12>in the death of now we know multiple people at

0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:45.879
<v Speaker 12>that residence was just absolutely heartbreaking. To know that it

0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:50.600
<v Speaker 12>was something that was known to law enforcement and yet

0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:52.600
<v Speaker 12>and yet it still happened.

0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Horvath was among a handful of politicians who spoke out earlier,

0:27:58.040 --> 0:28:00.280
<v Speaker 2>like Mike Bonnam, let.

0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:05.679
<v Speaker 13>Them know that there is someone in office with some

0:28:05.800 --> 0:28:08.480
<v Speaker 13>influence who is going to be calling the sheriff, and

0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:11.159
<v Speaker 13>is going to be calling the district attorney, and is

0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:14.440
<v Speaker 13>going to be asking for a thorough and complete investigation

0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:17.600
<v Speaker 13>into this death and the circumstances around it.

0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:22.040
<v Speaker 2>One of the biggest mysteries of this story is why

0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:26.040
<v Speaker 2>the then La County District Attorney, Jackie Lacy, chose not

0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:28.680
<v Speaker 2>to pursue a case against ed Buck after the death

0:28:28.720 --> 0:28:29.520
<v Speaker 2>of Jamel Moore.

0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:34.840
<v Speaker 12>She chose not to bring the case, say more, I

0:28:34.880 --> 0:28:39.600
<v Speaker 12>think I think it was a choice, and there was

0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:43.160
<v Speaker 12>speculation as to why she made that choice, whether it

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:48.960
<v Speaker 12>was his political contributions or political influence, whether she didn't

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:52.400
<v Speaker 12>want to take on what she perceived to be of

0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:56.840
<v Speaker 12>flaws in the sheriff's investigation and expose those publicly, But

0:28:57.560 --> 0:28:59.920
<v Speaker 12>for whatever reason, she chose not to pursue the case.

0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:04.320
<v Speaker 12>I called her office after Jammel Moore's death several days

0:29:04.320 --> 0:29:09.520
<v Speaker 12>in a row, asking her office to help create safety

0:29:09.840 --> 0:29:12.320
<v Speaker 12>for people who wanted to come forward and testify and

0:29:12.360 --> 0:29:17.080
<v Speaker 12>share information about what they knew about the circumstances surrounding

0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:19.480
<v Speaker 12>Jammel's death, but what they also knew in terms of

0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 12>the circumstances of what happened at that residence. And it

0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:29.479
<v Speaker 12>took many people coming forward, including my phone calls, not

0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:34.400
<v Speaker 12>only including my phone calls, for her to even be

0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:37.120
<v Speaker 12>willing to grant immunity for people to come forward and

0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:38.680
<v Speaker 12>share valuable information.

0:29:39.360 --> 0:29:43.720
<v Speaker 2>All of this is entirely structural Alex Garner, the former

0:29:43.760 --> 0:29:47.080
<v Speaker 2>sex worker and present day author and activists, and.

0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:53.480
<v Speaker 8>Those structures create the vulnerabilities that allow someone to be mistreated.

0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:57.280
<v Speaker 8>Because someone like Ed Buck can I recognize those vulnerabilities

0:29:57.520 --> 0:29:59.640
<v Speaker 8>that the system has created and realized they can take

0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:03.680
<v Speaker 8>advantag of it. Because if you're young, gay and black

0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:07.520
<v Speaker 8>and doing sex work, you have no expectation that the

0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:10.040
<v Speaker 8>police are going to take you seriously or do anything

0:30:10.040 --> 0:30:24.960
<v Speaker 8>to protect you. There's still profound stigma associated with being

0:30:25.000 --> 0:30:28.360
<v Speaker 8>sex work, with being a sex worker, or just having

0:30:28.360 --> 0:30:32.440
<v Speaker 8>gay sex. So having to talk to a healthcare professional

0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:37.880
<v Speaker 8>or a legal representative about your sex life is inherently

0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:43.800
<v Speaker 8>difficult because of the in trensed homophobia in our culture

0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:48.920
<v Speaker 8>and society, not to mention obviously in trenched racism in

0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:51.880
<v Speaker 8>terms of our relationship to the criminal justice system. So

0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:57.400
<v Speaker 8>those vulnerabilities are created by a system, a system that

0:30:57.560 --> 0:31:01.960
<v Speaker 8>is incredibly strong. But people who want to take advantage

0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:07.400
<v Speaker 8>of others can identify that and say, oh, I know

0:31:07.520 --> 0:31:09.640
<v Speaker 8>that they're less likely to call the police on me

0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:12.800
<v Speaker 8>for this reason. I know I can push them a

0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:16.240
<v Speaker 8>little bit more with a few extra dollars for this reason.

0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:19.360
<v Speaker 8>I know I can get them to be silent about

0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:23.680
<v Speaker 8>this for this reason. So it really is all of

0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:30.520
<v Speaker 8>these structural issues around jobs, housing, mental health and health

0:31:30.600 --> 0:31:35.480
<v Speaker 8>and physical health, and then homophobia, racism, classism, all of

0:31:35.480 --> 0:31:39.760
<v Speaker 8>these sorts of things are immigration policies. All of these

0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:42.960
<v Speaker 8>things construct a world in which someone has to function

0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:46.960
<v Speaker 8>and is largely vulnerable because of these structures.

0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 2>And even while articles were being written, ed Buck was

0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:08.200
<v Speaker 2>still luring men to his apartment with the promise of

0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:09.160
<v Speaker 2>money and drugs.

0:32:09.640 --> 0:32:11.240
<v Speaker 10>He was a troublesome kid.

0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:19.560
<v Speaker 2>On the next Shattering the System, Sympathy for the Devil,

0:32:20.040 --> 0:32:22.120
<v Speaker 2>a Rise and Fall of ed Buck.

0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:26.640
<v Speaker 10>His mother, interviewed over the years, said she knew when

0:32:26.640 --> 0:32:28.800
<v Speaker 10>the phone would ring it would be the school reporting

0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:32.200
<v Speaker 10>another problem. But her son, she picked up the phone saying,

0:32:32.240 --> 0:32:36.480
<v Speaker 10>now what's he doing? So he was a little bit difficult.

0:32:36.920 --> 0:32:40.920
<v Speaker 10>He was a very handsome young man. He became a model.

0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm Scenari Glinton and this is Shattering a Sisco. Shattering

0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:57.080
<v Speaker 2>the System is a production of Macro Studios and iHeart Podcasts.

0:32:57.400 --> 0:33:00.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm your host, Scenario Glinton. You can follow me on

0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Instagram at snari plus. The Number one. Our executive producers

0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:10.120
<v Speaker 2>are Charles D. King, Asha Corpus, Win Royo Reccio, Jonathan Unger,

0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Lindsay Hoffman, and Sonari Lenton. That's Me. Our podcast is

0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:16.880
<v Speaker 2>co written and produced by Ralph Cooper the Third and

0:33:16.960 --> 0:33:21.120
<v Speaker 2>Ben Cory Jones. Erica Rodriguez is our associate producer. Dana

0:33:21.160 --> 0:33:25.560
<v Speaker 2>Conway is our archival producer, Chris Mann is the audio engineer,

0:33:25.600 --> 0:33:29.640
<v Speaker 2>and Lisa Pollock is our consulting editor. Sound design and

0:33:29.720 --> 0:33:32.880
<v Speaker 2>music provided by Chris Mann with pod Shaper clips were

0:33:32.880 --> 0:33:37.200
<v Speaker 2>provided by the TYT Network. The Young Turks Special thanks

0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:41.120
<v Speaker 2>to Portia Robertson Maigas and Karen Grigsby Bates, and to

0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Michael Thomas of the Jamel and Tim documentary and filmmaker

0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:50.840
<v Speaker 2>Jace Bryan of the Beyond at Buck documentary. Stay tuned

0:33:50.880 --> 0:33:56.840
<v Speaker 2>for sympathy for who That's Next on Shattering the System

0:33:57.320 --> 0:33:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Wow