WEBVTT - Lilly CEO Talks Fighting Cancer and Obesity, Drug Pricing

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm sitting down now with the CEO of Eli Lilly,

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<v Speaker 2>Dave Rix.

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<v Speaker 3>It's great to see you in person, Dave.

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<v Speaker 1>Great to be with you, Katie.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's start with.

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<v Speaker 2>The news that you have out this morning, and that

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<v Speaker 2>is that Eli Lilly is buying Scorpion Therapeutics breast cancer

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<v Speaker 2>program for up to two point five billion dollars. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'll start with the basics why this deal and why now?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Well, it fits in really well with what we're

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<v Speaker 4>doing in breast cancer, which is changing the lives for

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<v Speaker 4>so many people who suffer from that condition. Of course,

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<v Speaker 4>Versenio's a our leading product in that space. This is

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<v Speaker 4>a targeted therapy for specific mutation in breast cancer effects

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<v Speaker 4>thirty to forty percent of women with breast cancer, and

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<v Speaker 4>Scorpions developed this program.

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<v Speaker 1>Through phase two.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a big Phase three program to do to get

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<v Speaker 4>this to market, and so it's a great transaction for

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<v Speaker 4>both sides and it adds to what we're doing.

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<v Speaker 1>We also have another.

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<v Speaker 4>Oral medication for breast cancer coming. We read out data

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<v Speaker 4>last year, so a growing cluster of medicines there to

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<v Speaker 4>really help people live longer with breast cancer. It's an

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<v Speaker 4>exciting deal for us, and we're pleased to work with

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<v Speaker 4>Scorpion to bring an in house.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this deal was really interesting because it's a

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<v Speaker 2>nice reminder that, of course el Lily does more than

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<v Speaker 2>just weight loss. So give us some context on the

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<v Speaker 2>overall portfolio here, how the oncology fits with of course

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<v Speaker 2>the weight loss and everything else.

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<v Speaker 1>That you do.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well, we have four therapeutic areas and of course

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<v Speaker 4>the diabetes and weight loss has been the story all

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<v Speaker 4>last year, and it's exciting because it's growing and big.

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<v Speaker 4>But that's about forty percent of the company. The other

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<v Speaker 4>sixty percent is also doing incredibly well breast cancer. We

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<v Speaker 4>mentioned in oncology here, we have other oncology assets, including

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<v Speaker 4>for hematology that are in the market and doing great.

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<v Speaker 4>Immunology is another important area for us, and products like

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<v Speaker 4>Ebgliss for atopic dermatitis, which just launched in Q four, along.

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<v Speaker 1>With Tolts for psoriasis.

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<v Speaker 4>And then neuroscience Alzheimer's launched last year in the fourth

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<v Speaker 4>quarter and we're ramping that now. So the company's got

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<v Speaker 4>a broad portfolio. We want to work on medicines for

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<v Speaker 4>terrible diseases of all kinds, not just obesity, but of

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<v Speaker 4>course the OBCD story is exciting and broad as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And before we get into some of the specific areas

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<v Speaker 2>there when it comes to M and A, obviously there

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<v Speaker 2>is a ton of optimism as it relates to the

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<v Speaker 2>M and A environment under a second Trump administration.

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<v Speaker 3>What is your M and A strategy?

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<v Speaker 2>Where are there more opportunities for inorganic growth?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well, we've been very consistent and it's working for us.

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<v Speaker 4>The motion for us is to go early and stay

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<v Speaker 4>in our lane basically, so focus on the therapeutic areas

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<v Speaker 4>where we know a lot that makes us a smart buyer,

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<v Speaker 4>and by going early, we take more risk, but do

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<v Speaker 4>smaller deals. I know there's been a lot of talk

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<v Speaker 4>about M and A under the Biden administration and how

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<v Speaker 4>hard it's been.

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<v Speaker 1>But for us, not so much.

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<v Speaker 4>We've done one hundred deals in the last three years,

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<v Speaker 4>that's the most in biopharma, but a lot of them

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<v Speaker 4>are small, below the radar, but it builds that early

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<v Speaker 4>stage pipeline strength for us and Lily maybe in a

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<v Speaker 4>little different position because our near term outlook, maybe our

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<v Speaker 4>midterm outlook is so strong we don't need to plug

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<v Speaker 4>a sales gap. We're just trying to find assets where

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<v Speaker 4>we can add value and create great medicines for patients.

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<v Speaker 4>This deal with scorpions another example of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and a great point too about flying under the

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<v Speaker 2>radar there with those bite sized deals.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's get to glp ones. Of course, there is a.

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<v Speaker 2>Lot of anticipation and excitement around your oral weight loss drug.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course there's some forthcomic data and if that trial

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<v Speaker 2>in particular is successful, how long.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you think it would take to get approval here?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so a lot of development's going on in our

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<v Speaker 4>incretin portfolio or forg lepron is the name.

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<v Speaker 1>Of the medicine. Yeah, Yeah, it's hard. I had to

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<v Speaker 1>practice too, and we should.

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<v Speaker 4>Get data before the middle of the year, the first

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<v Speaker 4>set of studies. It's highly anticipated and really important one

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<v Speaker 4>because it's convenient, could be an oral pill.

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<v Speaker 1>Two efficacy point.

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<v Speaker 4>Is it as good as ozepic essentially or semi glue

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<v Speaker 4>tide that's the goal for us, and as tolerable. If

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<v Speaker 4>it is, it could be approved in early twenty six

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<v Speaker 4>And the benefit here is not just the convenience of

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<v Speaker 4>the pill, but the ability to scale it. We all

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<v Speaker 4>know the production systems for injectibles have really been stretched,

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<v Speaker 4>and we continue to build sites and so forth. But

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<v Speaker 4>with the oral technology, we can make more and get

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<v Speaker 4>this medicine to more people around the world.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that's an.

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<v Speaker 4>Exciting development for the company if the data is positive.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know Mike co Ancher in New York, Matt

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<v Speaker 2>Miller is listening very closely right now. He would tell

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<v Speaker 2>you himself he'd like to get in one of these trials,

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<v Speaker 2>but when he did have them, call me, well, when

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<v Speaker 2>we get to the approval stage, I mean, what do

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<v Speaker 2>you see as the dynamic between the oral medications and

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<v Speaker 2>the injectibles. How much of the market do you see

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<v Speaker 2>the orals potentially taken.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I think we'll see over the next three years

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<v Speaker 4>fragmentation as you see in any scaled market. Right now,

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<v Speaker 4>total incretins in the world are probably exiting forty to

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<v Speaker 4>fifty billion, and so that's a big market in pharma,

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<v Speaker 4>and it likely is going well north of that, and

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<v Speaker 4>so we'll expect people to carve out niches.

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<v Speaker 1>One niches medicalization.

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<v Speaker 4>So for instance, at the end of last year, zep

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<v Speaker 4>bound or Manjarro showed success in sleep apnea, so here's

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<v Speaker 4>like a targeted condition like ten million Americans, and it's

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<v Speaker 4>the only drug approved in that space, so people with

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<v Speaker 4>that condition will seek the medication. We have also people

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<v Speaker 4>who just want to lose weight for general health, so

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<v Speaker 4>that's a broad based and then you know products like

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<v Speaker 4>coming like our triple acting Angerton retatritide, which is in

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<v Speaker 4>phase three studies now, will likely be segmented towards more

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<v Speaker 4>the people who need to lose more weight, so their

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<v Speaker 4>BMIs are over thirty five, they have more to lose.

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<v Speaker 4>So I think you'll see new medicines come out covering

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<v Speaker 4>different segments of this very.

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<v Speaker 1>Large and growing market. And the oral likely serves that sort.

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<v Speaker 4>Of first line broad based need and that's great because

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<v Speaker 4>we can produce a lot of it. It also will

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<v Speaker 4>be an important medicine for middle income markets like China

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<v Speaker 4>and Brazil where there is India lots of obesity. But

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<v Speaker 4>we just can't get enough of our product there at

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<v Speaker 4>the right price point right now because the injectible systems

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<v Speaker 4>are expensive and hard to scale.

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<v Speaker 3>Well let's talk a little bit more about pricing here.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know that it's earlier still in trials, but

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<v Speaker 2>if approved, do you expect that the orals would be

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<v Speaker 2>priced cheaper than zet bounds.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean we prices that bound cheaper than semaglutide

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<v Speaker 4>when we launched which and it's a better product. We've

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<v Speaker 4>proven that you lose almost fifty percent more weight when

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<v Speaker 4>we do pricing. Of course, the value in the actual

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<v Speaker 4>clinical data is very important, so we'll have to see that.

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<v Speaker 4>But also we need to think about this segmentation we

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<v Speaker 4>just discussed, So more to come on pricing. We're not

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<v Speaker 4>going to announce it today. We need to first get

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<v Speaker 4>the phase three study done. But our goal will be

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<v Speaker 4>to reach the masses with that product, and so we

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<v Speaker 4>need a price and strategy and concert with that.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I tried on the pricing, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back on your show and we'll talk about it.

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<v Speaker 3>I will follow up with you on that. Let's talk

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit about politics here.

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<v Speaker 2>Course, the incoming president Donald Trump, you met with him recently.

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<v Speaker 2>When it comes to the new administration, what sort of

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<v Speaker 2>pricing policies are you potentially anticipating there?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it's a good question.

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<v Speaker 4>We are still waiting for them to be seated, inauguration

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<v Speaker 4>next week and confirmations, etc. I would say first that

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<v Speaker 4>this idea of incoming administration that's focused on the health

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<v Speaker 4>of Americans is one that excites us. And there's a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of common cause with the farmer industry in Lily.

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<v Speaker 4>We wake up every day trying to make America healthy again.

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<v Speaker 4>So if that's the goal, we have common interests how

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<v Speaker 4>that happens. We need to learn more what the strategies are.

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<v Speaker 4>But of course you know, with for instance, with our

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<v Speaker 4>zep bound and what a great tool to really improve

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<v Speaker 4>the overall health of America.

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<v Speaker 1>So we'll seek partnerships with.

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<v Speaker 4>Them to say, how can we expand access, how can

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<v Speaker 4>we get new medicines like or forger prontter proof faster.

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<v Speaker 4>How can we improve insurance coverage and reduce.

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<v Speaker 1>Costs for Americans?

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<v Speaker 4>Those are all, you know, topics we want to engage on,

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<v Speaker 4>and you know, they also want to make the system

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<v Speaker 4>work better. I think the Presence talked about the role

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<v Speaker 4>of the middleman, and of course we need a way

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<v Speaker 4>to get our drugs to patients, but the way the

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<v Speaker 4>systems set up, like so many things in healthcare, is

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<v Speaker 4>too complicated and non transparent, and so we support those

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<v Speaker 4>kinds of changes as well.

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<v Speaker 2>You said, make America healthy again? So I have to

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<v Speaker 2>bring up RFK Junior. Have you met with him?

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<v Speaker 4>He was at the dinner. I think that was widely reported. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>so and we talked about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Where's the common ground? Okay?

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<v Speaker 4>I mean we are focused on people who want to

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<v Speaker 4>get healthy, so we have a lot in common there.

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<v Speaker 3>And I am curious.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean when it comes to specific policies, you mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>this optimism that you have when it comes to the

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<v Speaker 2>inflation Reduction Acts specifically, do you think that Trump will

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<v Speaker 2>finalize that proposal from Biden about the Medicare and negotiations

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<v Speaker 2>or what are your feelings.

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<v Speaker 1>On Well, they've done one round already.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean to our eye, it had all the costs

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<v Speaker 4>and none of the benefits that were promised. So it

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<v Speaker 4>was promised to lower the cost for patients. I don't

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<v Speaker 4>think the new drug pricing will do that at all.

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<v Speaker 4>But in the IRA there were provisions to address the

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<v Speaker 4>way that party benefits are delivered, smoothing costs, capping.

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<v Speaker 1>Out of pocket.

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<v Speaker 4>Those are good things we supported as industry. But the

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<v Speaker 4>idea of the government negotiating drugs directly and then having

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<v Speaker 4>essentially PBMs and other entities implement the program, we think

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<v Speaker 4>is flawed and it won't change value for America or Americans.

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<v Speaker 4>So we're actually going to ask the administration just to

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<v Speaker 4>pause that negoti to the next round of negotiation and

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<v Speaker 4>work make the program work a little better for us.

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<v Speaker 4>It's all about price at the pump when people go

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<v Speaker 4>to the pharmacy counter. How can they have a consistent

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<v Speaker 4>and low cost for benefits that.

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<v Speaker 1>Are helping their health. That's what insurance is for.

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<v Speaker 4>And I'm not sure the construct we just went through

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<v Speaker 4>does that. So there's ways to fix it. We have

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<v Speaker 4>ideas about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>I appreciate, of course the context there, and I only

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<v Speaker 2>have time for one more question.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So I want to go back to Alzheimer's. So

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<v Speaker 3>we were talking a little bit in the commercial.

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<v Speaker 2>Break about it, and you know, in the context of

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<v Speaker 2>Eli Lilly being more than just weight loss drugs. Your

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<v Speaker 2>Alzheimer's treatment received clearance in July of twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 2>What indications can you give us about adoption so far?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And it's so exciting for us because we've spent

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<v Speaker 4>so much time, like thirty years working to get a

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<v Speaker 4>medicine approved.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been very difficult.

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<v Speaker 4>We launched in like September we make a number of

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<v Speaker 4>the diagnostics, and the good news is we see a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of people seeking answers to the question if I

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<v Speaker 4>have dementia symptoms, do I also have amyloid? And am

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<v Speaker 4>I a candidate for the medicine? So that's growing pretty

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<v Speaker 4>rapidly right now. And then Cassunla our brand, we're seeing

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<v Speaker 4>utilizations start to ramp, particularly in December.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's good news and we're not done there yet.

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<v Speaker 4>I think there's studies to read out ahead, maybe late

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<v Speaker 4>this year, early next year in Alzheimer's prevention, which is

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<v Speaker 4>I think a much better answer why way too you

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<v Speaker 4>get the dementia symptoms that's prevented if you have amaloid

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<v Speaker 4>excess amyloid in your brain. And then more broadly, I

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<v Speaker 4>think for viewers interesting, I am super bullish on neurodegeneration

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<v Speaker 4>as a category we can address with medicines and what

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<v Speaker 4>are those are the scariest conditions we think about Parkinson's,

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<v Speaker 4>als Alzheimer's. I think there's more medicines coming in Alzheimer's

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<v Speaker 4>and more medicines coming in these other conditions, hopefully from Lily.

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<v Speaker 4>But that's an area where science is moving rapidly and Lily's.

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<v Speaker 1>At the forefront.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Dave, I so enjoyed this conversation. Hope to speak

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<v Speaker 2>to you again soon. That, of course, is Eli, Lilly's CEO,

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<v Speaker 2>Dave Rix