Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is Noel.
Speaker 1: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
Speaker 1: super producer, all mission controlled decant. Most importantly, you are you.
Speaker 1: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't
Speaker 1: want you to know. Heads up, fellow conspiracy realists. Tonight's
Speaker 1: episode explores at times graphic depictions of violence, murder, and assault.
Speaker 1: As such, this may not be appropriate for all listeners.
Speaker 1: We want to specifically thank Lorie Dollar who reached out
Speaker 1: some time ago to contact us about this story. Let's
Speaker 1: get into it. Here are the facts. What is the
Speaker 1: Colonial Parkway? Have you guys? We talked about this off air.
Speaker 1: I think a couple of us drove through it in
Speaker 1: times gone by. But beautiful piece of land.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in Virginia. According to the National Park Service.
Speaker 2: This is gorgeous and it has quite a bit of
Speaker 2: a history to it. Right connects some old towns.
Speaker 1: It does it does the technical or the real name,
Speaker 1: the name it wears at home is way less interesting.
Speaker 1: State Route nine zero zero zero three. It's a twenty
Speaker 1: three mile stretch of road that goes in kind of
Speaker 1: a horizontal arc, linking, as you said, Matt, the historic
Speaker 1: Triangle of Virginia that would be Yorktown most famous from Hamilton,
Speaker 1: Williamsburg and Jamestown.
Speaker 2: It's pretty cool. Again. I'm going off mostly information that's
Speaker 2: on that official you know, the official park Service website,
Speaker 2: but it's got let's say, let's say this, the reason
Speaker 2: why people seem to love it is because of that
Speaker 2: history and because it is such a scenic travel by
Speaker 2: foot kind of road or travel you know, you could
Speaker 2: drive it, but you can travel by foot, you can
Speaker 2: travel by bike, travel in other ways that if you're
Speaker 2: just there, even though you're kind of couched amidst a
Speaker 2: bunch of city area, it does feel like maybe you're
Speaker 2: not in the city anymore.
Speaker 1: It's picturesque, you know, and that doesn't happen all the
Speaker 1: time with big conurbations like here in Atlanta and our
Speaker 1: fair metropolis. We're all quite fortunate, except for Paul. We're
Speaker 1: all quite fortunate to see things like Doll's Head Trail,
Speaker 1: you know, or Sweet water. You can be in the
Speaker 1: midst of the city and then surround it by greenery,
Speaker 1: and that just doesn't happen everywhere, but it happens here
Speaker 1: on the Colonial Parkway. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Boys, I can open my backyard, Open up to my
Speaker 2: backyard now, and I just see forest.
Speaker 1: Are you seeing d what kind of Yeah?
Speaker 2: All kinds of deer kyoks? We got it all back here.
Speaker 2: A black bear?
Speaker 1: You got? You got a bear situation? Yeah, all right, Well,
Speaker 1: drop your pants, exhibit dominance just so it.
Speaker 2: Knows, just like whip it back and oh wait, no, wait,
Speaker 2: what are we talking about?
Speaker 1: Okay, to be clear, everyone, when you see a bear,
Speaker 1: regardless of the species, please know you cannot PvP it.
Speaker 1: It's not a vangalou and you also should not show
Speaker 1: it you're junk.
Speaker 2: Are you sure? All right? I'll take your word.
Speaker 1: I'm not a bear expert. Also, also, Noel, you have
Speaker 1: a you have a bit of a silence there, are you?
Speaker 1: Are you thinking back to times you fought a bear?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, how could I forget those? The bear times?
Speaker 3: I was once a bit of a grizzly man askue figure.
Speaker 3: Thankfully I did not go the way of Timothy treadwell
Speaker 3: and I am with you today to podcast, but it
Speaker 3: was dicey there for a while.
Speaker 1: Guys, we're glad you're here. Man you can't and we're
Speaker 1: glet you know, this stretch of road, this Colonial Parkway,
Speaker 1: calls to mind the car stuff road trip we mentioned
Speaker 1: occasionally where we took these historic parkways throughout different areas
Speaker 1: of the US, and it's entirely at this point for tourism.
Speaker 1: You know, the Colonial Parkway is not like the typical
Speaker 1: highway you might think of. It's not inundated with billboards.
Speaker 1: There's not a ton of strip malls and chain restaurants.
Speaker 1: There aren't tolls, Semi trucks aren't allowed there. The speed
Speaker 1: limit's pretty low as well. So if you're in a
Speaker 1: hurry driving from point A to point Z, this is
Speaker 1: not for you. But if you are there at the
Speaker 1: right time of year and you like to kick back,
Speaker 1: touch grass, as people say, and check out some stunning views,
Speaker 1: then you take the Colonial Parkway.
Speaker 2: Reach out and touch grass. That's the way. That's the
Speaker 2: way I like to think about it.
Speaker 1: You're personal theskew.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's uh, that's really good, bet.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: It is a Sunday drive kind of thing right back
Speaker 2: in the good old days. It's a wonderful Sunday drive.
Speaker 2: Which is kind of weird, guys, because this kind of thing,
Speaker 2: while picturesque, while beautiful in so many ways, it also
Speaker 2: there's kind of a dark side to something like this.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, in more ways than one. No construction means
Speaker 1: no light pollution means uh, when it gets dark out there,
Speaker 1: it gets start. There aren't even street lights whatsoever for
Speaker 1: very long stretches of this, and not even purple ones,
Speaker 1: not even purple or blue ones, right or whatever they are.
Speaker 1: I trust you, guys, you'll tell me. But but there
Speaker 1: are also a ton of like you know, if you've
Speaker 1: ever been on a on a road in the US
Speaker 1: and a rural area, especially around mountains, you might see
Speaker 1: this thing where it says scenic overlook and there's a
Speaker 1: little pull off, like a little ovular or half of
Speaker 1: a circle kind of thing where you can just park
Speaker 1: your car for a minute, get your photographs, breathe in,
Speaker 1: smell the air, enjoy yourself. And this place is meant
Speaker 1: to do that. It's purpose built for it. Since the
Speaker 1: first idea came around in the nineteen thirties, And what
Speaker 1: do we think when we hear the idea isolated places
Speaker 1: where cars can pull off, you can take a brief
Speaker 1: stop and enjoy the view. We all know people, so
Speaker 1: if you know people, you're probably not surprised. This parkway
Speaker 1: has also been for decades and decades even now it's
Speaker 1: a top tier lover's lane. Oh, teenagers and young adults.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, a really good spot to grab a pint of
Speaker 2: ice cream and enjoy it by yourself in your little face.
Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, I can do that too.
Speaker 1: Such a good boy, Matt.
Speaker 3: Only you you go up to lovers laying alone, just
Speaker 3: enjoy a nice pint.
Speaker 2: Oh, Ben and Jerry's. Oh that makes it more suspicious.
Speaker 3: But there is a little zodiac killer is man. I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: Sorry, it's a.
Speaker 2: Shame ice cream eating session and you're doing it alone
Speaker 2: in nature as intended.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, officer, but my family can never learn about this.
Speaker 1: Butter Pecat you never know, so okay. So for decades
Speaker 1: this parkway was a known hook up location. The surrounding
Speaker 1: communities accepted this barely a secret. If you're a local,
Speaker 1: you know about it, and there wasn't much wrong with it.
Speaker 1: It's the kind of situation where it's peak Americana. Law
Speaker 1: enforcement might roll up and they might bust some kids
Speaker 1: out too late, you know, like to the earlier point.
Speaker 1: They might be getting to a quick I won't say
Speaker 1: third base, but they might be playing shortstop, you know,
Speaker 1: in the front of the back seat. And then law
Speaker 1: enforcement will probably say, all right, if you're not drinking,
Speaker 1: you're not doing drugs, you guys, get out of here.
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell your parents, you know, go home,
Speaker 1: let the lesson be learned. But if we fast forward
Speaker 1: a few decades, what we see is the same isolation
Speaker 1: that made this perfect for young adults making out and
Speaker 1: tourists hunting those amazing views. It also made it a
Speaker 1: perfect hunting ground for predators. And this is the story
Speaker 1: of the Colonial Parkway murders. Here's where it gets crazy.
Speaker 1: So what happened? What happened?
Speaker 2: Well, we're not talking about predators like bears and you know,
Speaker 2: a cougar or two or something like that.
Speaker 3: None of my grizzly skills would have come in handy
Speaker 3: at all.
Speaker 2: No, we're talking about the most dangerous game. We're talking
Speaker 2: about humans hunting humans front and this is this is
Speaker 2: really interesting, y'all. That it's a specific timeline, right, only
Speaker 2: a couple of years, what is it eighty six to
Speaker 2: eighty nine, three years where it appears that someone was
Speaker 2: hunting there and they had several I ben when I
Speaker 2: was looking, I found four couple or four couples I guess,
Speaker 2: or four individual instances that are confirmed, and then I
Speaker 2: was seeing on lists maybe a fifth one, but it
Speaker 2: wasn't connected to the parkway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's strange because even now in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: mid February, as we record, law enforcement will tell you
Speaker 1: there is no hard forensic evidence linking the groups of
Speaker 1: murders that are collectively called the Colonial Parkway murders. I mean,
Speaker 1: we do know these did not seem to be unrelated
Speaker 1: or one off situations. The mo was just too similar,
Speaker 1: too close. The authorities and the public alike. While they
Speaker 1: have not officially called these all connected in terms of
Speaker 1: what they're looking for in investigations, they are apply treating
Speaker 1: them as such. They just can't rule out the possibility.
Speaker 1: In each event, there's a couple usually pretty young, at
Speaker 1: least one case of very disturbing age discrepancy, but young,
Speaker 1: and they're sitting in a vehicle somewhere on or near
Speaker 1: Colonial Parkway, including the actual interstate that bisects it, the
Speaker 1: I sixty four. So they're murdered in different ways, stabbing, gunfire, strangulation,
Speaker 1: one potential victim probably drowning. There's never any evidence of burglary,
Speaker 1: and there's often but not always, no evidence of sexual assaults.
Speaker 1: So this might call to mind things like the Son
Speaker 1: of Sam murders. You know, the guy walks up to
Speaker 1: the car discharges a firearm.
Speaker 2: In the ones where there is sexual assault that appears
Speaker 2: to have taken place. In what I've seen, Ben is
Speaker 2: that it is the female victim that was assaulted. Male
Speaker 2: victim often just killed, which does begin to lead you
Speaker 2: down the pathway of a male killer here in this instance.
Speaker 1: Right, and the demographics we know about serial murderers do
Speaker 1: again show us that overwhelmingly serial predators who are apprehended
Speaker 1: are proven to commit homicides are going to be male.
Speaker 1: Please listen to that sentence closely, folks, because the big
Speaker 1: caveat is we only know about the ones who are caught.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like you're saying, the killer or killers also
Speaker 1: drove the victims' vehicles away from the site of the
Speaker 1: homicides in every case. That's the big imo. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's lots of wonder about we don't have
Speaker 2: to get into right now, but just that that feels
Speaker 2: like a very sophisticated move, right, because the moment, if
Speaker 2: you are a killer and you come across a couple,
Speaker 2: let's say that is making use of the Colonial Parkway,
Speaker 2: as we were saying, it is used in the past
Speaker 2: as a makeout spot. You off would probably encounter them
Speaker 2: in their vehicle oftentimes or as we saw sometimes down
Speaker 2: we'll talk about it, but down by the water, right,
Speaker 2: which is another possibility where they're even more isolated moving
Speaker 2: that vehicle to slow down the discovery of those bodies.
Speaker 2: I think that's maybe one of the reasons why it
Speaker 2: feels like a more sophisticated serial killer than just random
Speaker 2: acts of violence. I think that the car thing is
Speaker 2: a big deal.
Speaker 1: Premeditation, familiarity with the local geography, also not panicking, yeah,
Speaker 1: the part of the murderer. Yeah, it's there are a
Speaker 1: lot of disturbing puzzle pieces here. We also know that
Speaker 1: at this point the bodies of three couples have been recovered.
Speaker 1: There is one case generally grouped with the murders wherein
Speaker 1: a couple has disappeared, they have not been found to
Speaker 1: this state, no official confirmation of death, but the vast
Speaker 1: majority of people you speak with will believe that this
Speaker 1: disappeared couple has also been murdered. Their bodies are just
Speaker 1: somewhere out in the marsh yet to be found, or
Speaker 1: maybe somewhere there in a river. We already see that
Speaker 1: there are a couple of wrinkles. There are additional homicides
Speaker 1: that have been tentatively linked to the four proven cases,
Speaker 1: and again the bedeviling thing law enforcement to this day says,
Speaker 1: we're investigating these things. We are aware of their commonalities
Speaker 1: or appearing commonalities, but we have no hard forensic evidence
Speaker 1: linking these So maybe we take a break for a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. When we return, let's dig in.
Speaker 1: Let's look at the timeline, and you'll see why this
Speaker 1: is such a such a dilemma and an ongoing case.
Speaker 1: Even more than three decades later.
Speaker 2: And we've returned, and we've gone over the big picture,
Speaker 2: let's start to look at individual cases, and Ben, I
Speaker 2: think we start with Rebecca and Kathy. So it's Rebecca
Speaker 2: Dawski and Kathy Thomas and This occurred on October twelfth,
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're on October twelfth, nineteen eighty six. A jogger
Speaker 1: is just going around their usual exercise and they clock
Speaker 1: something incredibly unusual. It's a white nineteen eighty Honda Civic
Speaker 1: and it looks like somebody was driving and then maybe
Speaker 1: swerve to avoid an animal or maybe just just had
Speaker 1: a misstep on the wheel. They are crashed in a
Speaker 1: Civic down an embankment at what is called the Cheatham
Speaker 1: Annex Overlook that's about seven miles or so east of Williamsburg.
Speaker 1: And this car I think primarily stands out to the
Speaker 1: eye because of the white paint job. It's also just
Speaker 1: a few feet, like a very disturbing number of feet
Speaker 1: from dropping fifteen feet and plummeting into the York River.
Speaker 1: So if it's an accident, they had a close call.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we really close call. Let's take ourselves just
Speaker 2: really quickly into the mind of somebody who may have
Speaker 2: tried to crash that car and hide it, especially if
Speaker 2: we're talking about the darkness that existed on the Colonial
Speaker 2: Parkway when the attack likely occurred at night. Maybe the
Speaker 2: person thought that vehicle was sufficiently hidden and nobody would
Speaker 2: see it. I think the color, as you said, Ben,
Speaker 2: I think the color and just being that close to
Speaker 2: the embankment. I don't know. I feel like a person
Speaker 2: never wanted that vehicle to be discovered, but there were
Speaker 2: just factors that they didn't they didn't think about. I agree,
Speaker 2: and I think this is something that's going to come
Speaker 2: into play later as we go down the line about
Speaker 2: what this if it was one person, what they learned,
Speaker 2: and the way they put those lessons into.
Speaker 1: Action, and now it evolves, right. I mean that's a
Speaker 1: question too, like what would you do if you are
Speaker 1: a jogger and you see a car that appears to
Speaker 1: have crashed. It's down a steep embankment, so it's going
Speaker 1: to take you a while to get there. You would
Speaker 1: probably contact the authorities. That's what this person did. A
Speaker 1: highway patrolman goes there, finds this white hat, A civic
Speaker 1: looks inside and finds the bodies of Kathleen Mary and
Speaker 1: Thomas Kathy to her friends and Rebecca Ann Dawski Becky
Speaker 1: to her friends. These two, by the way, were in
Speaker 1: a romance antic relationship at the time, but they're not alive.
Speaker 1: When the authorities find them. Dawski is in the backseat
Speaker 1: and Thomas's body. For your familiar folks with a nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty Honda Civic, it's the hatchback. So Thomas's body is
Speaker 1: unceremoniously stuffed in the hatchback.
Speaker 3: Gosh, what a undignified way to go, shoved in the
Speaker 3: hatchback of a nineteen eighty Honda Civic. I'm making light
Speaker 3: that this is very gruesome stuff. And the autopsy showed
Speaker 3: further grizzly details, including rope burns about the neck and
Speaker 3: wrists of both of the bodies, which were looked at
Speaker 3: as some telltale signs of strangulation. In addition, trigger warning
Speaker 3: here for folks that maybe are averse to cutting, like myself,
Speaker 3: their throats had been slashed as well, quite deeply, in fact,
Speaker 3: so deeply that both bodies were nearly decapitated. That is
Speaker 3: just what a brutal detail. Strangled and slashed, it doesn't
Speaker 3: It just leads one to really start to think about
Speaker 3: the kind of pathology I guess of the assailants. You know,
Speaker 3: this is someone that this was not just a move
Speaker 3: of convenience or a move to make sure that they
Speaker 3: were dead. This was someone that had an aggressive, you know,
Speaker 3: streak a mile wide, not this Just strangulation alone wouldn't
Speaker 3: indicate such. But to the investigators, all these details added
Speaker 3: up to the idea that the murderer's original plan could
Speaker 3: have possibly been interrupted. The bodies had also been doused
Speaker 3: in diesel, but not yet set on fire. So it
Speaker 3: seems as though something, you know, a wrench was thrown
Speaker 3: into the works here and there was a bit of
Speaker 3: panic that.
Speaker 1: Sets perhaps a reasonable or not reasonable I would say,
Speaker 1: but logic set in the idea that igniting a car
Speaker 1: fire would draw attention much more quickly.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. But the other thing that we know is
Speaker 2: that this killer, whoever they were, left behind fingerprints and
Speaker 2: not like they were wearing gloves when they were carrying
Speaker 2: out the murders, and then they took the gloves off
Speaker 2: and the accident left a fingerprint. No, the car, the
Speaker 2: back of the car at where the victims were. This
Speaker 2: car was covered in fingerprints, which again psychologically means dousing
Speaker 2: the car setting on fire would get rid of that evidence, right,
Speaker 2: But it didn't happen for one reason or another. My
Speaker 2: mind takes me to whatever was happening was interrupted after
Speaker 2: like after the diesel has already been poured, after they've
Speaker 2: already been killed, they are where they are. This person
Speaker 2: was going to just set the car on fire, but
Speaker 2: then somebody's driving by got spooked and then decided to
Speaker 2: just drive it where they drove it.
Speaker 1: There's also the potential for a tight timeline on the
Speaker 1: predator's side, which is needing to be somewhere so as
Speaker 1: to not arouse suspicion right, leveraging the time gap such
Speaker 1: that you have an alibi. Right. It works again in
Speaker 1: pre cell phone era, so there's you know, one of
Speaker 1: the other questions is why not push it the extra
Speaker 1: few feet into the river right on that embankment. There
Speaker 1: are there are questions. It does seem like it does
Speaker 1: seem like early work, and it does seem as though
Speaker 1: the killer was indecisive in terms of what their security
Speaker 1: would be post event. But the fingerprints are interesting too,
Speaker 1: because they are all over the inside the outside of
Speaker 1: the car, their full fingerprints. They're what are called latent
Speaker 1: or partial prints as well. No signs of a robbery.
Speaker 1: Both victims have their person, they're intact, both victims are
Speaker 1: fully clothed. Authorities find no sign of sexual assault. But
Speaker 1: there is one vital clue. I think it's huge for
Speaker 1: what we're going to see in the future. One of
Speaker 1: the victims, Thomas, managed to fight back to a pretty
Speaker 1: impressive degree, and the body was holding a clump of hair,
Speaker 1: presumably from her murderer.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's Kathy Thomas, by the way. And let's just
Speaker 2: another quick thing if you're an investigator, this is the
Speaker 2: same sex couple in nineteen eighty six. So when you
Speaker 2: start to think about killer's motives, maybe that's something that
Speaker 2: factors in right weight, I have to Yeah, maybe this
Speaker 2: is a hate creme of some sort. Maybe that's the
Speaker 2: reason why this couple was targeted. Until a year later,
Speaker 2: another couple is targeted, and it seems to be a
Speaker 2: different set of circumstances and yet very similar.
Speaker 1: And still some of that anger in the murdering. Right,
Speaker 1: this is not a surgical operation, right, it doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to be such, and there's still un answered questions. So,
Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, fast forward a year later we
Speaker 1: meet David Knobling and Robin Edwards. It's September twenty First,
Speaker 1: we'll go to the Ragged Island Wildlife Refuge close to Smithfield.
Speaker 1: Any other day, it's a beautiful place.
Speaker 3: September twenty first, nineteen eighty seven, a patrolman at the
Speaker 3: Ragged Island Wildlife Refuge, which is pretty close to Smithfield,
Speaker 3: finds a black Ford Ranger in the parking area and
Speaker 3: the engine, the wipers, and the radio are all still running.
Speaker 3: This is an eerie scene. Some pieces of clothing are
Speaker 3: found inside. Both doors are open, the driver's window is
Speaker 3: partially rolled down. The car is identified as belonging to
Speaker 3: an individual named David Lee Nobling, a salesman, and his
Speaker 3: wallet is discovered intact in the car. Authorities rule out,
Speaker 3: as in the other case, robbery. Then two days later,
Speaker 3: on September twenty third, nineteen eighty seven, Nobling's body washes
Speaker 3: up on the shore along with an additional body belonging
Speaker 3: to a fourteen year old by the name of Robin
Speaker 3: Margaret Edwards. The tide carried them onto the shore of
Speaker 3: the kind of beach area of this refuse his wildlife refuge.
Speaker 3: The cadavers were about one hundred feet apart, both showing
Speaker 3: signs of fatal gunshot wounds execution style for Nobling in
Speaker 3: the back of the head, Edwards one in the head
Speaker 3: and one in the shoulder that likely would not have
Speaker 3: been the fatal blow. Both were clothed partially, and it
Speaker 3: appeared as though the water was not responsible for removing
Speaker 3: these items of clothes. Let me know, the water can
Speaker 3: be pretty rough and you know there's a lot of
Speaker 3: push and pull, and you know things can get removed
Speaker 3: because of this. But the investigators did not believe that
Speaker 3: was the case here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the story already astute listeners, you see, this
Speaker 1: story is already pretty disturbing without an active murderer. Think
Speaker 1: of those ages, Noel said. The salesman in this case
Speaker 1: is twenty years old. The body discovered with him was
Speaker 1: that of a fourteen year old child. The child Edwards,
Speaker 1: her jeens are unfastened, her bras positioned around her neck. Originally,
Speaker 1: investigators making some of the assumptions of the time are
Speaker 1: not sure whether sexual assault took place. They are presuming
Speaker 1: Knobling Edwards had a sexual relationship. So to them, they're thinking, well,
Speaker 1: if this person already had a sexual encounter, does that
Speaker 1: mean that they may have been assaulted and we won't
Speaker 1: be able to tell due to the degradation of the bodies,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Et cetera. Later, they would conclude that Edwards
Speaker 1: had indeed been sexually assaulted by someone who was not
Speaker 1: Nobling or Noppling. The pair had last been seen on
Speaker 1: September ninth, Edwards snuck out of her family home to
Speaker 1: meet Noppling at an arcade. And this is not If
Speaker 1: you look at the map, you'll see I said it
Speaker 1: was close to Smithfield, it's closer to Carrollton, and it's
Speaker 1: right on the edge of the James River across from
Speaker 1: Newport News. And this means the bodies are not technically
Speaker 1: found on the Colonial Parkway. But authorities don't exist in
Speaker 1: a vacuum. They're well aware of the two women who
Speaker 1: were killed last year, and they're saying both of these
Speaker 1: murders occur in known Lover's Lane areas. And these two locations,
Speaker 1: by the way, are a scant half hour from each
Speaker 1: other via car.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're if you're going across that one bridge,
Speaker 2: I was linking to that bend because it is really
Speaker 2: it is weirdly close, especially with the James River as
Speaker 2: the connector. Like if you could just draw a straight line,
Speaker 2: it's pretty dang close. I can see why it's connected.
Speaker 1: And if you were familiar with all the snaking waterways
Speaker 1: and the non paved roads in the area, then you
Speaker 1: would have various methods of entering or leaving the.
Speaker 2: Situation, like if you had a fishing boat or.
Speaker 1: Something, perhaps yeah, yeah, perhaps, and then okay, so no
Speaker 1: public leads yet everything. Then these folks are doing good
Speaker 1: police work. Everything they're finding it's a dead end, it's
Speaker 1: a box canyon.
Speaker 2: One more thing just to think about this when considering
Speaker 2: the gunshot wounds to these victims, execution style to the
Speaker 2: back of the head, to me, that speaks of the
Speaker 2: first shot that was fired to take out the mail
Speaker 2: of the two people that are standing there, or that
Speaker 2: you encounter. The shot to the head and shoulder to
Speaker 2: me speaks of someone probably trying to run away or
Speaker 2: a skree.
Speaker 1: And then the driver's window partially rolled down is also
Speaker 1: perhaps not provable, but perhaps indicative of impersonation of a
Speaker 1: law officer exactly to get compliance, open the car door, get.
Speaker 2: Out of the car, sir, on a btk ruse thing.
Speaker 1: And so authorities are well aware something's happening. Fast forward
Speaker 1: less than a year this time, perhaps students of serial
Speaker 1: murderers will note this could be indicative of an escalating pattern.
Speaker 1: This is where we meet Cassandra Haley and Richard Cole.
Speaker 3: On April tenth, nineteen eighty eight, authorities turned up a
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty two red Toyota celica on the York River
Speaker 3: overlook in Yorktown, and it's identified as belonging to a
Speaker 3: student by the name of Richard Keith Call and the
Speaker 3: very same day he and another student named Cassandra Lee
Speaker 3: Hayley are reported missing, twenty and eighteen years old, respectively.
Speaker 3: The couple was last seen at a party late in
Speaker 3: the night around one thirty am on April the tenth.
Speaker 3: Returning back to the car, the keys were on the
Speaker 3: driver's seat, glasses and a watch remained on the dash.
Speaker 3: Pretty Much all of Cal's clothing is in the back
Speaker 3: of his car, along with some of Haley's, and the
Speaker 3: investigation would later prove that they were the very same
Speaker 3: clothes the couple were wearing earlier to the party. So,
Speaker 3: with the help of some police dogs, authorities tracked the
Speaker 3: couple's sense to the shoreline of the York River, and
Speaker 3: at first, perhaps with some validity, they assumed the couple
Speaker 3: decided to go on a night swim and unfortunately drowned. Theoretically,
Speaker 3: it could certainly happen, Ben, wouldn't you say, I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, people are inebriated, not maybe at their at
Speaker 3: their sharpest, and conditions are perhaps more aggressive than they realize.
Speaker 3: There's a maybe a perhaps a current of some sort,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, it's certainly a plausible scenario.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because this goes out into the bay, and in
Speaker 1: comparison with the earlier murder from less than a year before,
Speaker 1: if you look at the area, you'll see that You'll
Speaker 1: see that there's like a study of a peninsula in
Speaker 1: the middle, and there are rivers to either side of it.
Speaker 1: This is on the other side of that middle peninsula
Speaker 1: to the to the previous murder. So it's clearly in
Speaker 1: the same area. And and you're absolutely right, nol it
Speaker 1: is regrettably plausible possible for people to simply drown while inebriate.
Speaker 1: It's it's something that we looked at in our previous
Speaker 1: episode on the allegation of the Smiley Face killer. If
Speaker 1: you remember that one, right, all those college students, mostly male,
Speaker 1: who may have accidentally drowned or may have been murdered.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the map again, guys, just trying to
Speaker 2: understand it reminds me of the Lake Bury US a
Speaker 2: zodiac thing, trying to like figure out where they actually
Speaker 2: might have looked at the water and thought we could
Speaker 2: we should go swimming down there. When you put it
Speaker 2: in the overlook doesn't really give you a place that is,
Speaker 2: you know, titled the overlook, right, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1: Like overlook Point is probably the closest overlook point.
Speaker 2: So, but that's actually going down to the York River
Speaker 2: State Park, like in that area. Is that what we're saying,
Speaker 2: or is it somewhere different from there?
Speaker 1: It's yeah, you're you're you're on the money there.
Speaker 2: Okay, So it does appear there's a place where you
Speaker 2: could take your vehicle down and park it and be
Speaker 2: right by the river. You know, in imagining you could
Speaker 2: just go in there and swim. As you guys said,
Speaker 2: like maybe you're little ineberated, you're feeling excited about being
Speaker 2: with each other. That makes a whole bunch of sense.
Speaker 2: And we do know other killers have targeted couples on beaches.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, because of the isolation there, right. And the
Speaker 1: thing is, like you were saying, no, they're able to
Speaker 1: follow the scent with the help of canine units to
Speaker 1: the shore of the river, at which case or in
Speaker 1: at which point the scent is lost. At this point,
Speaker 1: as we record February sixteenth, twenty twenty four, no trace
Speaker 1: of these individuals has been found. They have not been
Speaker 1: seen once ever in these subsequent decades. If they were
Speaker 1: found alive this year, Call would be around fifty six
Speaker 1: years old. Hayley would be around fifty four years old. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a long time to be off the grid.
Speaker 2: Let's go back to the potential boat thing, guys, Because
Speaker 2: the James River, if you come out around that peninsula
Speaker 2: as you were describing Ben, you've got the York River
Speaker 2: right on the other side. If you knew what you
Speaker 2: were doing, and you had access to a boat, and
Speaker 2: you saw some people swimming at night and you had
Speaker 2: bad intentions, if you could somehow get them on your boat,
Speaker 2: you could take them anywhere along the coast there in
Speaker 2: the Chesapeake Bay.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of water. There is a lot of
Speaker 1: water there, and it's very difficult to search that amount
Speaker 1: of water. We know that due to the earlier proven murders.
Speaker 1: Investigators at the time were clocking similarities. They were primed
Speaker 1: to look for these, so they looked at the condition
Speaker 1: of the vehicle like you described Mel. Because of this,
Speaker 1: despite the bodies having never been recovered at this point,
Speaker 1: these two victims, Cal and Haley are presumed often to
Speaker 1: be victims of the Colonial Parkway killer or killers. Well, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: what do you say.
Speaker 3: We take a quick pause, hear a word from our sponsor,
Speaker 3: and then come back with more details of this chilling case.
Speaker 2: And we've returned, guys, before we jump into the next victims.
Speaker 2: I had no idea that there was a place right
Speaker 2: in this area called the Great Dismal Swamp.
Speaker 1: Is that like a magic car.
Speaker 3: Or a place in like the Phantom tollbooth or something.
Speaker 3: It really does sound like a.
Speaker 1: Yeah, does everyone call it that? Or is that like
Speaker 1: a matt thing.
Speaker 2: It's called the Great Dismal Swamp National Wildlife Refuge in
Speaker 2: the James River kind of flows feeds.
Speaker 1: Into I thought you were talking about like in your
Speaker 1: neck of the woods.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it's like just I'm just looking at
Speaker 2: near Norfolk and Chesapeake can Anyway, Sorry, it's huge.
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm saying it wrong. Maybe it's the Great Dismal Swamp.
Speaker 2: You know, or the d's mal.
Speaker 1: I think it's dismal, dude, it's just on multiple levels.
Speaker 1: It's probably dismal.
Speaker 2: I just imagine early settlers walking through like, ah, this
Speaker 2: place is dismal, Like, you know what.
Speaker 1: I love those names. It's weird too when you look
Speaker 1: at speaking of like our earlier episode on Tara Nullius.
Speaker 1: It may be more for a ridiculous history thing we
Speaker 1: explore together, but I love those names where it's clear
Speaker 1: that whomever decided to name it at like the whatever
Speaker 1: European it was, they were severely unimpressed, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just pulled from their journal. It's like Mickey farted.
Speaker 2: Just for fun. Dismal if you're looking at dictionary terms,
Speaker 2: means dreary, gloomy, or disgracefully bad.
Speaker 1: Two stone.
Speaker 2: So this sorry, I guess I just needed a light.
Speaker 1: We needed some levity, yes, thank you. Because also swamp
Speaker 1: regions are swamp of wet land regions are very difficult
Speaker 1: to access right. Often you need a knowledge of the
Speaker 1: land and you need specific type of transit. Right you
Speaker 1: can't get to a lot of these places in say
Speaker 1: a gold nineteen seventy two Chevy Nova which was discovered
Speaker 1: abandoned at a rest stop in I sixty four on
Speaker 1: September fifth, nineteen eighty nine. Again, Interstate sixty four intersects
Speaker 1: with the Colonial Parkway, and this vehicle that is discovered
Speaker 1: already pings some red flags for the investigators in the area, because,
Speaker 1: as you know, if you are a student of rest stops,
Speaker 1: it's a good place to abandon vehicles. They get left
Speaker 1: there all the time, and sometimes they're connected to with crime.
Speaker 1: Sometimes just bad non criminal things happen. It doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: mean there was a murder when you see an abandoned car,
Speaker 1: but it's a good place to leave.
Speaker 2: One, exactly, and you know that potentially or in one
Speaker 2: of the earlier scenarios, the suspect appears to have driven
Speaker 2: a car, one of the victim's cars, right with that
Speaker 2: white vehicle that was found the first murders. So immediately
Speaker 2: I can imagine these investigators all the lights popping off.
Speaker 2: But what was the big deal with this one left
Speaker 2: at arrest stop that made it feel fishy?
Speaker 1: Oh, the keys are in the ignition, the driver and
Speaker 1: passenger side doors are unlocked. This is very similar to
Speaker 1: what we were describing earlier. There's also dirt on the
Speaker 1: undercarriage and grass stains, indicating this vehicle was recently driven
Speaker 1: through the woods to this rest stop. A month passes
Speaker 1: and then the corpses of the people in that car
Speaker 1: are discovered. We're talking about Anna, Maria Phelps and Daniel Lawer,
Speaker 1: who is the owner of the car.
Speaker 2: That's la u R if you're looking it up. They
Speaker 2: are found in the woods between Williamsburg and Richmond. And
Speaker 2: as we well, it's a little again, it's a little
Speaker 2: bit of a different area, isn't it. It's not right
Speaker 2: off the Colonial Parkway.
Speaker 1: No, No, it's on a logging road.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: They're discovered by hunters in the kind of thing where
Speaker 1: like if you're familiar with hunting clubs stuff like that,
Speaker 1: then you know in your neck of the woods, the
Speaker 1: unpaved roads where you can drop your car and then
Speaker 1: go off in the while to find the deer or
Speaker 1: the black bear or whatever. And they're roughly one mile
Speaker 1: from this rest stop. They're covered in an electric blanket
Speaker 1: which is pulled from that Chevy Nova, and because more
Speaker 1: than a month has passed, the bodies are significantly decomposed.
Speaker 1: It's difficult to determine, Well, it's basically impossible to determine
Speaker 1: the cause of death here. It's also very difficult to
Speaker 1: determine whether there was sexual assault. But like you were
Speaker 1: saying earlier, nol, the autopsy identifies things that appear to
Speaker 1: indicate emotionally involved homicide, right, anger of some sort. There
Speaker 1: are deep stab marks on Phelps's abdomen into the bone,
Speaker 1: So whomever was doing this probably continued harming the body
Speaker 1: after the person died. That's the thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like with the whole strangulation versus decapitation
Speaker 3: and all of that, I mean, it really feels like
Speaker 3: someone's got a fetishistic kind of approach to these situations.
Speaker 2: Or guys, I would are you in this one? It
Speaker 2: feels like there could be a crime of passion involved
Speaker 2: because of the relationships, the personal relationships and the one
Speaker 2: that may have potentially been violated in this scenario.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So in that case, that's a good observation.
Speaker 1: Met So in that case, what you need to know
Speaker 1: about Annie Marie Phelps and Daniel Lower is that Anna
Speaker 1: Marie Phelps is dating Daniel Lower's brother. He is the
Speaker 1: boyfriend's brother. They are out there points unknown motives unknown
Speaker 1: when these deaths occur.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and who knows what they were doing out there?
Speaker 2: But if there's an electric blanket out in the woods,
Speaker 2: they're on a drive in this area, who knows what
Speaker 2: they were doing out there. But I don't know if
Speaker 2: I was, if I was the investigator, I'm looking directly
Speaker 2: at the boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would have to. We also don't know whether
Speaker 1: a mile is a long way to walk. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: girds and arrest stops. So we don't know if the
Speaker 1: electric blanket was on them when they died, or whether
Speaker 1: it was put over them as like an attempt to
Speaker 1: hide the scene of the murder or hide bodies.
Speaker 2: Either way, what are they doing out where they were?
Speaker 2: Whatever happened? Right?
Speaker 1: And what a terrible situation for the boyfriend.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, because he's probably again if this is
Speaker 2: a serial murderer, he has nothing to do with it,
Speaker 2: but he's definitely going to be the top of the
Speaker 2: list of people that investigators look at.
Speaker 1: Three terrible realizations. My girlfriend's dead, my sibling's dead. I
Speaker 1: don't know what they were doing in the woods. There
Speaker 1: are additional victims suspected but yet not yet confirmed. Opinions
Speaker 1: differ on whether these deaths should be grouped as part
Speaker 1: of the larger umbrella the Colonial Parkway murders. It's things
Speaker 1: like the deaths of Mike Margaret and Donald Hall. They
Speaker 1: were found on August twenty first, nineteen eighty four, about
Speaker 1: three hundred yards from a apartment complex in Henrico, Virginia,
Speaker 1: and due to the similarities in their deaths the location,
Speaker 1: the discovery of a vehicle abandoned passenger door open keys
Speaker 1: in the ignition, some detectives maintained that this may be
Speaker 1: the first actual incident of Colonial Parkway murders, but again
Speaker 1: not officially attached. Same way with a guy swere we
Speaker 1: I believe we may have mentioned on a previous episode,
Speaker 1: Brian Pettinger and Lourie Powell. I swear I feel like
Speaker 1: we mentioned them because because he is last seen at
Speaker 1: a dance club December fourth, eighty seven, and when they
Speaker 1: find his body, he had been bound. He had been
Speaker 1: thrown into the James River, likely while still alive. Actually
Speaker 1: they're convinced he was alive and he drowned in there,
Speaker 1: only for his body to be recovered by fishermen two
Speaker 1: months later. It occurs in the area the Colonial Parkway
Speaker 1: around the same time the other proven homicides occur. Wow,
Speaker 1: it just goes on and it's a dangerous dark rabbit hole.
Speaker 1: We're talking about people like Laurie Compton also goes missing.
Speaker 1: We're talking about possible links to the Shenandoah National Park
Speaker 1: murders with Julianne, Marie Williams, Lauris Salisbury, Wes why nots
Speaker 1: And in each of those cases there's also troubling similarity.
Speaker 1: And the question is are those similarities that we see
Speaker 1: as observers or that investigators see, or are they actually
Speaker 1: illustrative of the same killer. With this point, with tons
Speaker 1: of unanswered questions, we have to get to the suspects
Speaker 1: because imagine how heartbreaking it is to go for three
Speaker 1: plus decades with no lead at all. Right, and it
Speaker 1: seemed like everything was a dead end. Yet another series
Speaker 1: of cold cases in the United States that will remain
Speaker 1: unsolved until just last month, January of twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: there was a break in the case, which is astonishing.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's pretty mind blowing. There is a potential
Speaker 2: person as a primary suspect that may actually be linked
Speaker 2: to at least a few of these homicides. Should we
Speaker 2: just say his name. Yes, yes, this person is named
Speaker 2: Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior Wilmeer. He is considered the prime
Speaker 2: suspect in three of the homicides David Nobling. I think
Speaker 2: as we're referring to him as Robin Edwards, and then
Speaker 2: who's the third one.
Speaker 1: The third homicide is considered unrelated to what we call
Speaker 1: the Colonial Parkway murders.
Speaker 2: Okay, and that person is Teresa Lynn Spa Howell, who
Speaker 2: was twenty nine years old.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's Howell and Edwards. Wilmer will never be
Speaker 1: prosecuted because Wilmer passed away in December twenty seventeen, sixty
Speaker 1: three years old, cause of death hardening of the arteries.
Speaker 1: He was well known. He was a local as a
Speaker 1: clam and oyster fishermen. His friends called him Pokey. That
Speaker 1: was his street name. Investigators, this is still really really strange, guys.
Speaker 1: Investigators get his DNA after his death, and all they'll
Speaker 1: say about it publicly is they went through legal channels.
Speaker 1: He was not a convicted felon, so as DNA his
Speaker 1: info was not in any law enforcement database. He also
Speaker 1: wasn't military.
Speaker 2: That makes sense why they had one hundred fingerprints, but
Speaker 2: they couldn't I d anybody because there was no His
Speaker 2: prints were never in any of the databases. Oh wow,
Speaker 2: they were looking for a ghost. And yeah, I wonder
Speaker 2: how long they were looking at him though as a potential.
Speaker 1: We still don't know. Virginia State Police have the full
Speaker 1: press conference online. Do watch it if you can. We'll
Speaker 1: play a clip at the end here. But we got
Speaker 1: this courtesy of WTVR CBS six out of Virginia. And
Speaker 1: what they tell us is, like reporters have asked, we
Speaker 1: don't know exactly when they started looking at this guy
Speaker 1: for it. In every announcement from the authorities, the investigators
Speaker 1: also take pains to say they are convinced this guy
Speaker 1: was a murderer. He would be charged for these homicides
Speaker 1: were he alive. He knew. This is where it gets
Speaker 1: kind of true Detective Season one. He was intimately familiar
Speaker 1: with the land. He knew the woods, he knew the waters.
Speaker 1: He had he had a boat that didnny wade. He
Speaker 1: owned a tree cutting business called a Burst of Creativity
Speaker 1: better Tree Services.
Speaker 2: Interesting, he was mobile.
Speaker 1: He was informed he had something he had something like
Speaker 1: primitive obsect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, I'm thinking about timing now, because
Speaker 2: if these are his primary things, I don't know when
Speaker 2: you go fishing for those, for that particular wildlife, right,
Speaker 2: what times that you have to be out there, But
Speaker 2: I'm assuming that's early mornings often and sometimes late at
Speaker 2: night after it gets dark. To get those oysters and clams.
Speaker 2: It's probably early morning, late night, which means you would who,
Speaker 2: no matter who's in your life personally, right, you're going
Speaker 2: to be out later than normal, and that time might vary,
Speaker 2: and you might be up super early and that time
Speaker 2: might vary. Sorry, just thinking things.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredibly important, you know. Again, are saying, Look,
Speaker 1: there's no conclusive forensic evidence linking other murders to these
Speaker 1: three that we're convinced this guy committed. And so the
Speaker 1: three other active cases of the Colonial Parkway's murders, they're
Speaker 1: unresolved today. People are still searching for answers. Could these
Speaker 1: all be the actions of Wilmer and they just haven't
Speaker 1: been conclusively tied to that monster. Could there be other
Speaker 1: active killers? Someone impersonating law enforcement, something that could explain
Speaker 1: the seemingly the seeming compliance on the part of the victims.
Speaker 1: Wallets out stuff on the dash present, ID get out
Speaker 1: of the car, etc.
Speaker 2: That's what I was gonna say. This is one of
Speaker 2: the David noveling. Robin Edwards case is one of the
Speaker 2: ones where the car was left like that, and there
Speaker 2: are several other that have that very similar aspect to them.
Speaker 2: It does make you wonder if he was involved with
Speaker 2: all of those Niche okay.
Speaker 1: And he can't be questioned just beyond the reach of
Speaker 1: mortal law. But that doesn't mean the investigations are done.
Speaker 1: There is more to do. A break in a case
Speaker 1: like this can be a watershed moment for even more investigations, right,
Speaker 1: So maybe maybe we can go out this way. Going
Speaker 1: to the experts from that press conference we mentioned, there's
Speaker 1: a pretty impactful clip from Brian Dugan coming out of
Speaker 1: the Norfolk office in the FBI. He's a special agent.
Speaker 1: So before we before we play this clip again once more,
Speaker 1: shout out WTVR CBS six, who made the clip available
Speaker 1: in its entirety. Here is special Agent Brian Dugan.
Speaker 4: Well, these tragedies occurred decades ago. I recognize how much
Speaker 4: pain followed them throughout those years without any answers. There
Speaker 4: still may be more families out there hoping to close
Speaker 4: their chapters as well. That's why we're asking the public
Speaker 4: to take a good look at the suspects photos. If
Speaker 4: you had any encounters with him or his vehicle or watercraft,
Speaker 4: hunted with him, farmed oysters or clams docked next Touman Marinas,
Speaker 4: spent time with him on a personal basis or at work,
Speaker 4: or even romantically to some point, we want to hear
Speaker 4: from you. We're also interested in hearing from the public
Speaker 4: about areas where Wilmer had worked in both as a
Speaker 4: fisherman and tree cutter, Locations where he may have been
Speaker 4: known to hunt, or bars, clubs or lounges he frequented.
Speaker 4: A piece of information, no matter how small, could be
Speaker 4: useful to investigators to submit a report. We're encouraging the
Speaker 4: public to call the FBI's tip line one eight hundred,
Speaker 4: call FBI or mid a tip online at tips dot
Speaker 4: FBI dot gov. Alternatively, you can also contact the State
Speaker 4: Police via email at Questions at vsp dot Virginia dot gov.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna pause here because Dugan goes on to
Speaker 1: what we believe is perhaps the most impactful part of
Speaker 1: this press conference, where he is directly call putting out
Speaker 1: what we call a call to action. People knew this guy,
Speaker 1: he was in a hunting club, he did have phishing buddies.
Speaker 1: Could they come forward?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we would they have any information? Right? How secretive
Speaker 2: was he about his actions? If he was in fact
Speaker 2: taking these actions? And I think this is something what
Speaker 2: you're about to hear, this is something that could be
Speaker 2: applied to any murder case, any really any criminal activity case.
Speaker 2: This is it's just a really good point, and it's
Speaker 2: said really well.
Speaker 4: We recognize relationships and loyalties change over time, as do
Speaker 4: people and their perspectives. There are occasions where people who
Speaker 4: may have had knowledge of the incident did not feel
Speaker 4: comfortable coming forward with the information at the time. This
Speaker 4: may have been due to close relationships with persons involved,
Speaker 4: or out of concern of their own safety, reputation, or
Speaker 4: standing amongst friends. Even though mister Wilmer is deceased, we
Speaker 4: want to know, We want you to know, is not
Speaker 4: too late to come forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this happens with any sort of crime. And
Speaker 1: you know, it's very easy, unfortunately devilishly easy, to hear
Speaker 1: something like this, not be directly involved and think, well,
Speaker 1: of course I would do the right thing I would
Speaker 1: say if I saw something screwy. But we have to
Speaker 1: realize there is tremendous social pressure, often not to rock
Speaker 1: the vote. Uh. And with that in mind, these cases
Speaker 1: remain unsolved. Thank you again to Lori Dollar. Our thoughts
Speaker 1: are with the families and survivors of these murders, and
Speaker 1: we hope that there will be just as found the
Speaker 1: investigations continue. We would like to hear from you. We
Speaker 1: try to be easy to find online.
Speaker 2: We do.
Speaker 3: You can find us at the handlic Conspiracy Stuff on Facebook,
Speaker 3: on YouTube, and on x FKA Twitter. You can find
Speaker 3: us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff Show. However, on Instagram
Speaker 3: and tick doc.
Speaker 2: We do have a phone number. It's a voicemail system
Speaker 2: call one eight three three std WYTK. Let us know
Speaker 2: about other cases like this, they just we haven't been
Speaker 2: put onto yet. Please please please do that. Give yourself
Speaker 2: a cool nickname. Let us know if we can use
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. If you've got
Speaker 2: more to say than can fit in that three minute message,
Speaker 2: why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 1: We are the folks who read every email we get
Speaker 1: conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot.
Speaker 2: Com stuff They Don't Want You To Know is a
Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 2: favorite shows.