WEBVTT - Fran Healy 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.400 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Set podcast. 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:17.480 My guest today is Frand Dealing of Travage brand. We 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:22.120 were setting this up. We normally use the software Riverside, 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:27.120 which works in Chrome. You refuse to download a Google product, 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:28.120 tell me about that. 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.800 I'm not a big fan of downloading anything onto my 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.519 onto my computer. I don't really. I generally use the 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:41.000 fary just because it's it's uh, it's more secure as 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.680 a as a bit of software. There's more, you get 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.120 more privacy with it. Google, Google will It's like an 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.080 anal probe. They just want to get right up inside 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.560 you and they're into all your bits and piece And 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.680 I'm not I just find them very intrusive. I'm not. 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.240 I'm I'm not keen on on when that. I think 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.319 Apple are a little bit more kind of privacy oriented. 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.240 Or maybe that's just what I be led to believe. 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:13.639 But anyway, so have you had a problem downloading stuff 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:14.839 on your computer. 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:16.760 When today? 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.639 No, I'm talking about in general, since you're anxious about 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:21.800 downloading stuff. 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:24.760 No. No, I I just don't like Google. I don't 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.560 like the company. I'm not a big fan of Google. 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:34.320 I'm not I think I'm not that my key on it, 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:39.559 but I'm anyway, it's just, you know. 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.720 Well, the question is, if you have a problem with Google, 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.320 what other companies and what other products don't you use? 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:52.800 I'm I don't. I don't really. I don't use Instagram, 0:01:52.960 --> 0:02:00.560 I don't use Facebook, I don't use what's that? Don't use? 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:09.360 I actually do use Twitter, but that's now gone all 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.800 a bit wobbly. I don't really, I'm not. I think 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:19.480 their business models are interesting, you know, Facebook and or 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:26.239 sorry Alphabet. I think their business models are how could 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.760 you put it, very inventive. You know, you think you've 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.080 got four hundred thousand followers or five hundred thousand followers, 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.720 but in order to access those followers, you have to 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:39.640 pay the company to open up the gate to allow 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.760 you to reach all your lip you know, all your followers. 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.160 So it's like an illusion. You know, you've got forty 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.519 thousand or one hundred thousand, or a million or twenty 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:52.120 five million followers, but in order to reach them you 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:54.360 have to pay, you know. So it's it's not really 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.040 it's all a bit of a like smoking mirrors thing. 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:01.240 And again it's this feeling of being anally probed by 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:07.560 by someone in Silicon Valley, the Silicon Valley finger. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.120 So did you used to use these programs and stop 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:13.880 where you never used. 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:18.480 Them at the beginning? And I never liked Facebook really 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:22.040 very much. I did I have a Facebook account? I 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.680 think it did, and I just kind of went away 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.119 from it. So something kind of like, I don't know, 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.360 you know, some some people just give you a vibe, 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.520 and some apps just give you a vibe and you're 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.400 like nah nah. And so Facebook was like that. And 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.960 then I got a little bit kind of like weary 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:46.240 because then they Facebook bought Instagram and they bought WhatsApp, 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:52.240 and it's all about I guess having the it's I 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.600 don't know. And of course there's TikTok. We were talking 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.960 about TikTok today being banned in the US or possibly 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:05.480 as a Supreme Court over the the their decision. But 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.720 that's another I don't know, you know, that's a that's 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.320 a whole other that's like crack cocaine. That's like social 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:11.440 media on crack. 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:13.880 Okay, so you're not on TikTok. 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.240 Fuck that well, I'm my band is on TikTok, but 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:23.000 and personally not on TikTok. I mean that I feel 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:29.640 it's again it's like I feel social media is do 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.240 you know, like have you ever I mean, have you 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.719 read like much German history? No, Like if you go 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:41.400 back to like when what's his name Martin Luther delivered 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:44.200 the Bible to the people, like you know, like he 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.080 printed it. That it was the printing press was invented. 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.520 And then suddenly you had this mass dissemination of information. 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:55.880 And when the normal people of Germany, you know, all 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.520 of the sort of normal people of Germany were able 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.640 to have the Bible for the first time, they suddenly 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.080 had the word do you know, they had the information 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:10.719 at their fingertips. Interestingly, the modern German language as you 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.840 know it today comes from that Bible. It was. It 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:16.800 was written in a sort of like a sort of 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.279 street the way there was there was a few different 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:24.680 types of German when before that, and Martin Luther went 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.440 around all of these different places. And when he wrote 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.200 the Bible or the Old Testament, I think, yeah, he 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.239 he wrote it in a sort of almost like street talk, 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.320 like a sort of street version of German. And that 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.359 that took the high German and the low German and 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.720 put them together to get the German that we sort 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:50.000 of know today. And so when all these people began 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.160 to read this book, the Bible, they had it for 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:55.400 like four hundred years after that it was the only 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.200 printed book available to people for for a long time. 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.600 But when they first got it, there was a thirty 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:07.560 year war like because people were like, you know, the 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.840 Church didn't control the world of God anymore. The people did. 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.240 So we're in this moment right now where I think 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.920 we're having another mass dissemination of information and it's kind 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:22.480 of it causes chaos. And I believe that the guys 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:28.320 in Silicon Valley they're very I'm not sure if it's 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.040 left or right brained, but they're not artistically minded. They 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:36.000 have no they're all very math you know, they're all 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.960 very sort of zeros and ones, and they think in 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.600 a certain way. They don't they never, i'm sure, ever 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:48.599 considered the consequences of what the impact of social media 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:53.720 would have on the planet. So I'm kind of I'm 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.640 getting to a point and I think a lot of 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:57.280 people are where you're like, I just want to live 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.080 in a cave. Would just give me a cave and 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.000 just don't like I want to throw my computer out 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.320 the window. I definitely did after trying to get onto 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:06.640 this to this today. 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:13.800 Okay, outside the US, the world runs on WhatsApp, So 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:17.040 you're on tour outside of the US. How do you communicate? 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:26.560 I use them messages on iPhone and that works for you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Oh. 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:31.200 Okay, okay, just you're very well educated on these issues. 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.920 What do you think about Elon Musk and his power 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.200 in the American government? 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.240 Well, that's that's a whole different question. That's about that 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.640 talks about power. I don't know if you've read any 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.440 of Robert Carrow's writing, and you know, the power broker, 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:48.800 I know who we're talking about. 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:50.240 I have not read these books. 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:55.680 Well he I think he's on the fourth volume of 0:07:55.720 --> 0:08:05.080 his of his biography of My Brain's Melting, Thank you, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:09.760 Thank you, Lindon Johnson, and he's he talks in that. 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.360 I've watched a few interviews with Carol and he speaks 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:16.640 about power and he's sort of really his interest is 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.920 in that. And he said something really interesting in a 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:27.280 New York Times interview your podcast when he was asked 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.640 about the nature of power, and one of the things 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:36.679 he said that piqued my interest was that talks about 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:43.199 Lyndon Johnson for I think seventeen years, you know, being 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:48.400 very friendly and very he knew exactly who to talk 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.120 to to pull in power, to gather power, and never 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.840 once showed his hand about what he would do once 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:59.400 he had that power. So for all of us people 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.360 that don't have any power, I mean, it's kind of 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.280 like none of us do in this world today. You're 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.199 either something like Elon Musk he's got a lot of 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:15.000 money but and and influence. But our political leaders have 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.560 a lot of power. That's where the power really lies 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.040 in the country. But billionaires and political leaders. And so 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.439 I'm not sure what he's up to because a minute ago, 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:28.080 you know, he was like I was like, for instance, 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:30.480 I was saying, I'm like I was turning a corner 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.320 for my sins. I bought a Tesla a few years 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.240 ago because my kid was like, we got to get Tesla, 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.360 and I'm like, I'm happy with my nineteen eighty five. 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.840 We say these three hundred d I'm just let's not 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.720 get a Tesla. So I went, fuck it, I'll get 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.600 a Tesla. And we've got this this machine that drives 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:53.440 at this computer that drives now, and I was turning 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:57.240 into my street in Los Angeles, in Venice in it 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:04.559 and this guy I was beside me in the car, 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.520 beside me, he rolled down his window and my window 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:10.120 was down, my elbows on the window and this is 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.560 when was this a year and a half ago? And 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.200 he shouted, I mean we were maybe one foot apart 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.720 from each other, took a cigarette out of his mouth 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:25.960 and screened fuck Elon at me. And I was like, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.800 I was like, what you kidding? Because it was it 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.160 was round about the time when Elon Musk was beginning 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.320 to go like change his political leanings. He's moved his 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:43.640 company to Texas. And I was like, I knew that 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.959 his the worm was turning for him, but this the 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.520 memo hadn't reached this guy yet that Elon was going 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:57.400 into his car. And and but it's interesting to me 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.320 how these people operate, Like for normal people like you 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:06.600 and I and most people that roam the lands, we 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.880 we're just normal people. And I have no idea what 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.640 someone like that is agenda is. I can only imagine 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.120 that he wants to get to Mars, so he's going 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.880 to probably do everything possible to make that as easy, 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.120 to make that as much the path of leisure resistance 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:32.120 as possible. So I don't think he's I think he's 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:38.680 definitely on the spectrum. So his his very is very 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:45.920 sort of know what to behavior, what would seem like 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:52.040 anti social behavior, like his op likes the way he talks, 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:56.520 the way he acts in a kind of different way. 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:59.040 I think that's definitely spectrumy. I mean, we're all on 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.280 the the my grainbow in some way, in some more 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:07.960 than others. But I think possibly with Elon Musk, he's 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:13.000 definitely he wants to go to Mars. He wants to 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.200 save the world, and he doesn't really give a damn 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:22.520 about like what people think. It seems. But I'm from 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.559 the outside where you and I are sitting, does it matter? 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:27.560 Do we have any power to change any of that? 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:32.440 Doesn't really seem so we're quite powerless. And I realized 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.680 that a long time ago. I realized that when when 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:39.160 we had the Iraq War with George W. Bush and 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:44.040 Tony Blair's wonderful war in Iraq that everyone marched against 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:50.600 because we all smelled something funny, fishy, and everyone said, 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.360 don't do it, and they did it anyway. That's when 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.080 I began to realize, Oh, God, this this idea of 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.839 democracy and this idea of the people have the power 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:10.000 is actually it's kind of not really, not really true. 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.800 Okay, I'm gonna change the focus for a minute. Originally, 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:19.760 you're from Scotland. Yes, Scotland has talked off and on 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:26.319 about seceding from the UK. In addition, UK you've had Brexit. 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.080 What are your views on those things? 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.840 I remember, I remember where I was when breakfast we 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.800 were in Amsterdam. I was sitting in a hotel lobby 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.960 when I when I saw the headlines and I was like, 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:45.719 this is not good. It's not good. For first of all, 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:51.920 it's it was you know, you watch the the the 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.560 way that what's the word? The campaign was ruled out 0:13:55.960 --> 0:14:00.480 and it was very very persuasive to you if you 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.680 didn't maybe read enough or or look at the news enough, 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:09.360 or you didn't get your news from different sources. And 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.720 this was the birth of Cambridge Analytica as well. This 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:17.760 was their their little guinea pig almost Brexit was to 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.480 see if they could target people on Facebook, you know, 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:26.520 and get there exactly know exactly who would we who's 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.880 about to tip to the right or the left, and 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.080 they can send them exactly a tailored commercial to their 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.360 Facebook that will tip them in favor of Brexit. And 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.240 they did and they won, and I was like, oh 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.240 my god, this is going to be a disaster. And 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.680 it's been a disaster. Wow. We can't like even I mean, 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.280 it's it's gone into every walk of life. I think 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:54.720 it's going into I mean, speaking personally, the live business 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.560 where you could get in a tour bus and just 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:02.560 tour Europe and go around Europe as a band. Yeah, 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.720 and there's a lot of red tape now, I mean 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.800 a lot. And we talk about our fishing industry, we 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:13.640 talk about like the role of and also the breakup 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:20.320 of Europe. You're seeing it fragmenting, you're seeing Russia NATO again. 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.680 All of these things are way above my head and 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.920 I'm sure your head and everyone's head, because it's these 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.760 are the this is you go back to this idea 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:36.160 of power and that's where it lies and lies. And 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.200 I mean I had little tiny brushes with it here 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:45.080 and there down the line when I'm I've been to 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:49.920 Brussels and I've gone in to represent some of the 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.400 music business. You know, when we've been talking about Brexit 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.480 and we've been talking about like trying to sort of 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:02.720 make it easier for bands to make some money from recording. 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.680 So I've been there, but you get the feeling that 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:11.320 there's so much like you're talking a different language anyway, 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.400 bricks at Brexit was a really big fumble over there, 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:19.960 but we're living again where these this is like, you know, me, 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:25.960 you live in interesting times. We're living in such interesting times, 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:26.200 you know. 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.720 Okay, just because a lot of people are Americans who 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:43.000 are really not familiar with world politics, explain why Scotland 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.880 wanted to s seed and what the status of that 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:46.560 is today? 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:52.160 No idea what the status is today. It's it's Scotland 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:59.680 wanted independence. I can't honestly because I moved away like 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:04.080 twenty twenty odd years ago. So as a Scottish person 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.320 moving away, I don't want to be one of these 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:10.080 against Scottish people who are like blah blah blah when 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.639 I don't live there. You know, I live in the 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.679 United States and I'm I'm kind of I feel like 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:21.560 I'm in I'm neither in. I'm in neither country, but 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.920 I'm on a base level. The Scottish National Party ran 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:36.040 a very very good campaign to have Scotland become independent, 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:40.160 and at the time I wasn't sure because I wasn't 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.359 living there. You've got to be there, you've got to 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.120 be on you've got to have feet on the ground 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.280 and be in the bars and be in the street 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.439 and be in the supermarket and be talking because we 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:56.359 like to talk in Glasgow. And so a lot of 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:58.840 my friends were pro it. Some of my friends were 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:03.760 against it. Personally, I always feel like putting walls up 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:09.720 and dividing things is not great. But I think the 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:15.680 reasons for independence in Scotland stem from just long history 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:21.280 of England or sorry no England London and just kind 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:26.800 of fucking us are. Like you rewind back to the 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.720 nineteen late nineteen eighties nineties. We have a thing called 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.399 the poll tax and this was like a type of 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:41.000 tax that British government tried out in Scotland. First, you know, 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.639 where do all the where do all the nuclear submarines 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.800 say they live in Scotland. You know they don't live 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.360 in England. They keep all the nuclear arsenal of Britain 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.879 next to us. I mean, it's it's kind of like funny, 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.399 you know. So this is all of these reasons, like 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.159 they the nuclear thing, to the economic thing, to just 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:07.280 this historic thing of being kind of humped by London. 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.359 I think a lot of Scottish people, half of Scotland 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:17.639 almost wanted to secede, as you say, and it didn't happen. 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:23.520 They failed, And but now that then then Brexit happened 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.119 and now I don't know where anyone stands because the SNP, 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:35.119 the Scottish National Party, is in disarray. They've lost Alex Salmon, 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.960 the leader at the time of that. He's dead. He 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:43.920 died last year. Nicolas Sturgeon, who used to run the SNP, 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.200 she resigned. She's in a sus a weird scandal herself. 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.160 I don't know if that's been resolved. So it's Scottish 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.200 politics is in slight disarray. 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:59.840 So how did you decide to leave Scotland in the UK? 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:06.080 It's a great question. Well, I Travis. So Travis got 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:10.840 together in nineteen ninety one. That's when we started the band. 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.760 I was starting our school and I started the band 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.800 at the same time. And we chugged along for six years, 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:23.480 our five years or whatever, and it became and I 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:25.600 got a little bit better and a little bit better 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:33.760 at writing songwriting, and then it became clear to me 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:40.399 anyway that we needed to change the backdrop. We needed 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:46.000 to bring the the mountain was that they say the 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.600 mountain would come to Mohammad, take my Hammed to the mountain. Right. 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.560 I had to do that. We had to go down 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:55.800 to London to seek our fame and fortune Dick Whittington style, 0:20:56.359 --> 0:21:01.920 and we arrived there in nine team nine to six 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.880 June the first or April the first, Oh no, yeah, 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.439 June the first, and we that's where we stayed for 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.200 twelve years. We went down for six months to try 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.240 and get a record deal. We were all on the 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:22.280 doll meaning one how met unemployment benefit right, which we 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:26.400 called the John Major mute John Major, who is the 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:31.440 UK Prime Minister. We called the unemployment benefit the John 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:39.359 Major Music Scholarship Scheme. And we we got lucky. We 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:43.080 got a deal very quickly. The day before my twenty 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:48.040 third birthday July twenty second, nineteen ninety six, this guy 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:50.560 came up to me in a bar and said, I 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:52.439 want to give your band a deal like and I 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.199 was like what, because we'd only just got there and 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.280 he'd managed to get a tape from someone and we 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:01.600 sang to this to this guy a few months later, 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:05.800 but that's another story. But yeah, that's why we went 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.600 down there. We we we couldn't get arrested in Scotland. 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:14.240 I think people come up there and they they they 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:16.960 check people out, they check bands out, and I think 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:18.760 we just had to go down And it was a 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:24.040 really interesting time in London. It was britt pop was booming, 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:31.080 the the art scene was amazing, and labor was just 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:33.480 about to get into power. Tony Blair was just about 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:36.879 to so everything was was was about to flip to 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:40.639 to something new. And we went down and we were 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:45.320 right in the midst of all this when when we arrived, 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:48.240 and so really and it was a really great time. 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:52.000 It was it was you have Oasis and pub britt 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:54.080 pop and all that stuff going on, and we weren't 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:57.639 really part of that. But that's why we need to. 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:03.200 Live, okay. And how did you leave London? 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:07.600 Ah? We left London. So we moved in ninety six 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:11.719 and in two thousand and six I had my kids, 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:18.440 my boy Clay, and and while we while my wife 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:22.480 was pregnant with Clay, someone through a brick through our 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.680 window and there was a series of events, like three 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.959 things happened we had a brick thrown through our window. 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:33.560 Someone stole like I'd lest stupidly left my laptop sitting 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.440 on a sort of with it opened, like glowing out 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:41.159 of the window. So I got my laptop stolen. They 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:44.560 smashed the window and I felt like, whoa, that's that's 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:51.560 that's a bit kind of aggressive. And then two people, 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:56.200 two of our neighbors, were mugged on our street, one 0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:59.399 at knife point and then another one was at knife 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.320 point taking on a bus, driven away out into the 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:06.480 middle of nowhere and robbed. Neither of them were hurt, 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:09.600 but I was like, wow, that's it felt like it 0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:11.760 didn't feel safe anymore. And we lived in a very 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:16.440 leafy suburb of London called crouch End where Nick Hornby, 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:21.399 the writer based High Fidelity, was based there. That's the 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:27.480 neighborhood from that book. So that's that. When we got there, 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:29.600 it was really nice and then it started to cool 0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:32.400 a bit nasty, so I was like, let's just go, 0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:35.200 and so we moved to Berlin. Meet my wife and 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:39.359 like two eighteen month old son. We moved to Berlin 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:45.159 and Berlin was I mean, for such a huge city 0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:50.520 in Berlin's massive, it's quite provincial when we moved there. 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:52.600 You know, you've get kids here are like nine, ten 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:55.920 eleven walking hand in hand down the street. It's lovely. 0:24:56.400 --> 0:24:59.040 And so we went there. We stayed there for ten 0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:04.280 years and I had a lovely time, and then came 0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:07.199 to came to Los Angeles. 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:12.120 Okay, There're been a lot of legendary records made in Berlin. 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:16.280 We had David Bowie in the seventies, We ultimately had 0:25:16.400 --> 0:25:20.439 you two. Could those records have been made anywhere or 0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:23.600 is there a vibe that affects your creativity in Berlin? 0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:28.400 Well? Interestingly, I the both of those bands and Depeche 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:35.920 Mode made their seminal albums are arguably some of their 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:40.879 most seminal work in one studio called hansa Hands of 0:25:40.960 --> 0:25:46.119 Tone Studio, and I had I had. My room was 0:25:47.280 --> 0:25:51.480 in that complex. My room was the room where Depeche 0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:55.600 Mode even when we were recording. When I was demoing, 0:25:55.640 --> 0:25:59.000 I was a found video of Depeche Mode in my 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:06.280 room playing like showing a journalist how to sample the 0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:11.040 sound of dropping like a scruise on the ground and 0:26:11.200 --> 0:26:13.240 showing them that you could put it into keep order 0:26:13.280 --> 0:26:20.399 and you can so could the question, Yeah, Berlin I 0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:26.600 think now this is both of those bands. Actually, you 0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:32.680 two came after the wall fell, so Bert Bowie did 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:35.040 a lot of great work with you know, in hans 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:39.960 A before the Way, before the wall fell. You two 0:26:40.000 --> 0:26:42.359 came in after the wall fell. There is a vibe 0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:45.399 there and I think, but the further you got away, 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:48.199 the further you got away from the vibe at the 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:51.440 further you got away from the wall falling in nineteen 0:26:51.520 --> 0:26:55.800 eighty nine, that the more it Berlin has become a 0:26:55.840 --> 0:26:58.760 little bit just smoother, you know, a little bit more 0:27:00.560 --> 0:27:04.760 and your margindized, if you know what I mean. You know, 0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:06.720 the high store streets are kind of like the high 0:27:06.720 --> 0:27:09.600 store streets. They got a Uni Globe, they've got a Nike, 0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:12.720 They've got you know, all these things. So it's but 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:17.400 there's definitely, you know, Berlin is a very interesting town. 0:27:17.480 --> 0:27:17.639 You know. 0:27:17.640 --> 0:27:21.280 If you want provincial, you got it in Spade Fields. 0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:26.800 If you want Second World War horror like tours, you 0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:30.640 got it. If you want to go and dance all 0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:35.360 night in a nightclub, you got it. And Berlin's kind 0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:39.600 of got it all. And there's a very liberal I 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:44.560 would say liberal. It's an interesting flavor because it's not 0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:50.119 quite liberal. It's it's when people can put up with 0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:53.960 other people. I don't know the words my Ward's family, 0:27:56.560 --> 0:27:58.840 when people can like if you're gay, black, white, and 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:01.800 they don't care. It's just like you're just a human, 0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:04.879 let's just go on with it. I think like in 0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:08.560 all the years I lived in Berlin, and never once 0:28:10.240 --> 0:28:15.720 I never once heard any and everyone saw someone getting 0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:20.080 beaten up, and never once saw broken glass, and never 0:28:20.160 --> 0:28:26.480 once saw anyone raised their voices to anyone. It's a 0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:29.360 very and I think that has a lot to do 0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:33.920 with their history, where there's almost zero tolerance over there 0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:39.280 of any aggression of any kind. So you've got like 0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:42.080 you could you can be arrested for calling someone a cunt, 0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:44.960 which is if you're in Glasgow. I mean it's like 0:28:45.320 --> 0:28:49.560 Glasgow's like you know, Iceland has got like a thousand 0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:53.840 ways to say snows. In Glasgow, there's like a thousand 0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:57.040 meanings of the word cunt. We use it in a 0:28:57.120 --> 0:29:00.320 very different way than everyone else. So if you call 0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:05.080 someone a seaward in Glasgow, sorry, in Berlin, you can 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:08.800 get arrested because they don't put up with any of it. 0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:12.280 And I think that's got a lot to do with 0:29:12.600 --> 0:29:19.760 their like the history people just they don't have any 0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:27.280 time for any any like anger or aggression. But weirdly, 0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:31.720 as I've been living in Los Angeles the last eight 0:29:31.800 --> 0:29:34.240 years and looking over to Berlin and still talking to 0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:37.280 friends over there, looking at the news every day, we're 0:29:37.320 --> 0:29:41.560 beginning the pendulum is swinging to the to the other 0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:46.360 side again. And it seems to be very like like 0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:49.920 I say, it's a pendulum, the pendulum of politics or 0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:54.200 the pendulum of pendulum of the populace with one way 0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:58.680 and another. I think Angelo mercle was possibly one of 0:29:58.720 --> 0:30:06.160 the most amazing and politicians in history. Like she managed 0:30:06.200 --> 0:30:11.240 to hold on to power, keep everyone happy, most closely 0:30:12.440 --> 0:30:15.040 stand on the world stage. And and she had she 0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:16.920 had a very and and she had a very sort 0:30:16.960 --> 0:30:22.880 of right on background. But I know it's and then 0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:27.760 she's left, and pendulum is the petulum is swinging very 0:30:27.840 --> 0:30:32.560 much in the opposite direction. Now, I guess ship like 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:33.240 that happens. 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:43.520 So how did you end up leaving Berlin and getting 0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:45.720 to Los Angeles again? 0:30:46.800 --> 0:30:49.880 It was never and it wasn't really a plan as such. 0:30:50.560 --> 0:30:55.720 I we had a we had a We're fortunate enough 0:30:55.760 --> 0:31:01.000 to have an apartment in New York and we got 0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:06.320 that in two thousand and three and we sold it 0:31:06.440 --> 0:31:12.200 in two thousand and fifteen or so, and I was like, 0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:16.040 we we knew we had friends in Los Angeles, and 0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:17.480 I was like, let's just get a place there, like 0:31:17.520 --> 0:31:19.760 swap a brick for a brick. So we did that 0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:24.080 and we went over to LA and when we were 0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:28.720 over someone was like, oh, they're having open days for schools. 0:31:29.240 --> 0:31:34.720 And Clay had been not really enjoying bilingual school, which 0:31:34.760 --> 0:31:38.640 is like in Germany. In Berlin, he went to German 0:31:38.680 --> 0:31:42.840 speaking an English speaking school together and they teach you 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:46.800 mathematics in German and they teach you history and English 0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:50.080 and it's like it all kind of and he never 0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:55.760 really liked it. So we saw a school over here 0:31:55.840 --> 0:31:59.320 and then we thought, fuck it, let's just go. So 0:31:59.360 --> 0:32:02.800 we all of our stuff in a big truck and 0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:10.560 came to LA. And we've been here and I'm gett. 0:32:10.800 --> 0:32:13.040 I think it's like it seems to be a pattern here, 0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:16.600 like a ten or around about ten years. Every ten 0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:19.360 years I moved to another place, and it's coming up 0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:19.920 to that now. 0:32:20.920 --> 0:32:24.280 So if we were talking, we are talking, would you 0:32:24.320 --> 0:32:26.520 be saying, yeah, I'm ready to move on from La. 0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:31.719 Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, I've never you know, on like 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:37.720 La and Berlin are apparently his sister sister cities, and 0:32:39.960 --> 0:32:42.800 there's there there couldn't be more different, Like I was saying, 0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:47.160 in all my time in ten years in Berlin, I 0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:50.080 didn't hear anyone raise their voice to anyone. I didn't 0:32:50.120 --> 0:32:56.880 see any trouble. It's a very peaceful place. Like yeah 0:32:56.960 --> 0:33:00.560 it was. It was super peaceful on the country. Come 0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:05.160 into Los Angeles. It's like you're I was saying to 0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:10.480 someone the other day, LA is like a pressure point 0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:12.760 on like if you're getting a massage and someone you know, 0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:14.520 presses that a little bit in your back where you're 0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:17.920 like fucking know here where all the where, everything, all 0:33:17.960 --> 0:33:21.400 the nerves come into one point. That's l A is 0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:26.520 one of those places. And uh, it's it's it's downs 0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:31.000 is it. Yeah, it's it's upstream from from other places. 0:33:31.440 --> 0:33:33.360 If it happens here in La, then you can be 0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:37.000 guaranteed it's probably going to happen somewhere else down the line. Culturally, 0:33:38.320 --> 0:33:44.560 you know, they make Hollywood here and and but I 0:33:44.600 --> 0:33:48.560 and all of the cities I've ever lived in, I mean, 0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:53.720 Ela gets a really Eli gets. I don't know why 0:33:53.760 --> 0:33:59.920 people think Ella is kind of like look and dizzy 0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:03.640 or you know, you get New Yorkers early la and 0:34:03.920 --> 0:34:07.440 can't San Franciscan say like la as if it's kind 0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:11.799 of like nah, I've never lived in a more badass, 0:34:12.160 --> 0:34:15.200 hard ass city than this. I mean this city at 0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:18.360 the moment anyway. And maybe it's just the time, but 0:34:19.080 --> 0:34:26.680 the it's like, you've got that this homeless crisis. You 0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:30.319 got seventy thousand homeless people, which is you know, it's 0:34:30.400 --> 0:34:34.760 like what in it? How can I how can people 0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:36.879 let that happen in the richest country in the world. 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:46.080 You've got insane crime. I saw I've seen four people 0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:48.920 dying in front of me on the street in Los Angeles. Well, 0:34:48.920 --> 0:34:53.520 I've lived here. I've gotten into four different altercations, not 0:34:53.640 --> 0:34:55.799 none of which had anything to do with be just 0:34:56.840 --> 0:35:01.799 people like I got someone try to carjackbe like pull 0:35:01.880 --> 0:35:06.520 me out of the window of my car. Someone When 0:35:06.719 --> 0:35:08.839 we were away from our house for a little while 0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:12.439 we came back, I'm talking like a week. We came 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:15.480 back to our house. There was a dudle in our house, 0:35:16.120 --> 0:35:18.840 tooled up like he had but he was he'd just 0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:22.279 taken drugs, so he was a little bit like, you know, 0:35:22.760 --> 0:35:24.520 out of his head a little bit, and he was 0:35:24.560 --> 0:35:27.520 a big guy and I had to like gingerly walk 0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:31.640 him out of the house, you know. And I got 0:35:31.640 --> 0:35:37.120 into this fight where a guy who smashed his hands 0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:39.960 down on my car and ordered me to get out 0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:45.360 of the car, which, being from Glasgow, I did. He 0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:48.120 took his shoes off and it was like going to 0:35:48.480 --> 0:35:52.480 like beat me up karate style, and I managed to 0:35:52.520 --> 0:35:57.600 talk him off the ledge. We're very diplomatic Scottish people. 0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:02.160 We top people off ledges. They should get us in for, 0:36:02.360 --> 0:36:05.000 you know, like when people are on when people are 0:36:05.040 --> 0:36:09.920 jumping off bridges. And oh yeah, I got bitten by 0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:14.480 a dog and almost lost my finger, my finger. I 0:36:14.640 --> 0:36:17.480 was a neighbor's dog escaped and I was just driving 0:36:17.480 --> 0:36:23.759 down my hill and at at like another neighbor's dog 0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:26.839 had been hit by a card a year earlier, and 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:29.160 I've seen I saw the dog and I'd stopped my 0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:30.840 car and there was all the other cars on the 0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:33.960 on the road and I was like, no on my watch, 0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:36.759 And so I chased this sausage dog up my hill 0:36:37.200 --> 0:36:40.720 and then picked it up and it just like chewed 0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:44.240 my finger off. So it's been and then, yeah, I've 0:36:44.360 --> 0:36:49.440 seen people like I've seen things. I feel like Rutger 0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:52.520 Hower at the end of Plage Runner. I've seen things 0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:57.880 you wouldn't believe. It's living in Los Angeles, and I'm 0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:01.279 not to mention you're like, we're truly right in the 0:37:01.400 --> 0:37:06.920 heart of global warming. It's like last year there was 0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:09.480 massive floods. My house flooded and it was a nightmare. 0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:14.000 This year, my friend's houses are gone, they burnt down. 0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:18.080 Because it's just like what and we're right on the 0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:20.840 San Andreas fault line ready to pop at any second. 0:37:21.400 --> 0:37:24.880 Why anyone would come here? You know, you've got to 0:37:24.880 --> 0:37:28.279 be crazy to come here, right, but in a weird way, 0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:35.200 all of that kind of all of that kind of 0:37:35.200 --> 0:37:38.200 makes it interesting. But I am absolutely ready to move 0:37:38.200 --> 0:37:42.000 from Los Angeles. I think if you've lived here, if 0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:44.440 you were born here and you grew up, it's like 0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:48.359 boiling a frog, you'll have no idea that coming in 0:37:48.400 --> 0:37:53.919 from the outside. I mean my album, there's a song 0:37:53.960 --> 0:37:56.040 on the album, which is the title track of the album, 0:37:56.040 --> 0:38:02.000 which is a massive event on Los Angeles and it's 0:38:02.000 --> 0:38:04.760 a sort of spoken word. I'm not saying it's a rap, 0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:09.160 but it's a spoken word of me just ranting about 0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:17.160 the city. And I think the reason if if, if anything. 0:38:17.200 --> 0:38:20.440 And again, and then there's the people of Los Angeles 0:38:20.640 --> 0:38:24.480 who you see, it's been amazing actually to watch people 0:38:25.719 --> 0:38:29.080 going out and helping other people in this time of 0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:33.919 this disastrous time that everyone's certain neighborhoods are going through 0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:39.160 the outpouring of of of charity and helping and it's like, 0:38:40.520 --> 0:38:45.560 I've never seen anything like it. And I think because 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:50.520 in Los Angeles, you're not really you don't get a 0:38:50.600 --> 0:38:55.520 chance to rehearse being a human being because you're everyone. 0:38:56.480 --> 0:38:57.959 Come out of your house, you get in your car, 0:38:58.120 --> 0:38:59.799 go to your work, get out your car, you walk 0:38:59.920 --> 0:39:02.440 up the stairs, do your work, come down the stairs, 0:39:02.480 --> 0:39:05.719 getting your car, go home, walk across your path, go 0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:09.359 into your house. There's that sort of so everyone is 0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:14.560 in there these like metal boxes in their pods, listening 0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:19.239 to their podcasts. Hopefully they're listening to this one. And 0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:26.560 and but there's not this. It's there's no metro system. 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:28.839 You know, like if you were to take what we 0:39:28.840 --> 0:39:33.600 were in Paris in September and I was thinking, wow, 0:39:33.600 --> 0:39:37.040 if you if you took the Metro out of Paris. 0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:40.840 It would be like, how could you possibly have Paris 0:39:40.840 --> 0:39:43.160 without the metro? How could you have New York without 0:39:43.160 --> 0:39:45.800 the subway and the and the and the bus system. 0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:49.680 Or London with its tubes and its public transport, where 0:39:50.719 --> 0:39:54.320 no matter if you're rich or poor and everything in between, black, white, 0:39:54.520 --> 0:39:56.920 every religion and creed, they all get on it. You 0:39:57.040 --> 0:39:59.840 all sit next to each other. You might meet someone 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:04.520 who talks to you. You might you might be and 0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:09.000 you might have a revelation, you might have nothing, but 0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:13.160 you're all in it together, whereas in La we're all 0:40:13.239 --> 0:40:16.160 in our own separate little pods and the We do 0:40:16.239 --> 0:40:19.200 have a public transport system here, but that's generally for 0:40:20.080 --> 0:40:24.760 like poor people who can't afford a cup. So I think, 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:30.000 like watching how the city and the people of the 0:40:30.000 --> 0:40:32.600 city have reacted to this disaster just now, it's been 0:40:32.640 --> 0:40:36.520 really interesting because I think folk are dying to be human, 0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:39.480 you know, they're like they just they want that there's 0:40:39.520 --> 0:40:42.439 a there's an absence, there's like her They talk about 0:40:42.440 --> 0:40:45.520 the drought and the hills. There's been like a drought 0:40:45.560 --> 0:40:48.480 of humanity or something here. You know, there's people aren't 0:40:48.480 --> 0:40:51.600 allowed to talk to one another because they're all in there, 0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:54.960 they're all in their cars. Anyway I am. I mean, 0:40:55.000 --> 0:40:57.560 I could talk all day about it, but I think 0:40:57.600 --> 0:40:58.799 it's time to move on. 0:40:59.280 --> 0:41:02.279 Oh okay, just to stay on this LA point for 0:41:02.360 --> 0:41:05.839 one second. You're talking about New Yorkers in San Francisco, 0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:10.439 people putting down Los Angeles. Yeah, what are the positives 0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:12.440 that you seem to be alluding to? 0:41:15.719 --> 0:41:19.560 I think there's there's there's It's like if you concrete 0:41:19.560 --> 0:41:22.200 everything over, you know, nature has a habit of just 0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:24.239 like popping through you. You see the little bit of 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:26.719 green grass popping through the crack on the pavement, on 0:41:26.840 --> 0:41:32.520 the sidewalk, And I think underneath all of this there's 0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:35.799 a there's a big heart. Ellie's got a big heart. 0:41:36.360 --> 0:41:38.759 But it's too dangerous, you know. I mean, I've got 0:41:38.800 --> 0:41:42.480 to say it's a dangerous place. And I'm like, I 0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:46.360 feel like I'm reached. I'm reaching my third strike and 0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:51.400 I don't know you are My inner my inner alarm 0:41:51.440 --> 0:41:55.719 bell alerts, it's is it red? Now it's like get out, 0:41:56.239 --> 0:41:59.200 you know my I mean for five years ago was 0:41:59.200 --> 0:42:02.799 like get ready, and now it's like get out. So 0:42:04.840 --> 0:42:10.239 I'm not alluding to it. I don't think. I think 0:42:11.440 --> 0:42:15.319 you meet in your life. There's loads of people you 0:42:15.360 --> 0:42:17.839 meet along the way, and you learn a little bit 0:42:17.880 --> 0:42:20.200 from every single person you meet, and then there's all 0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:24.239 like the other people that you don't get to meet. 0:42:24.840 --> 0:42:27.160 I think this is a I think I came to 0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:31.840 Los Angeles to live at a really, for want of 0:42:31.880 --> 0:42:41.120 a better word, interesting time, and it's not being great. 0:42:41.480 --> 0:42:48.080 It's been frustrating at times. I am and I'm ready 0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:50.760 to I'm ready to get out. I mean, my friend 0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:54.120 left the other day. He's he's moved to Alabama and 0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:59.720 of all places, to Birmingham, and I was like, you're leaving, 0:42:59.840 --> 0:43:03.520 Like it's like the guy running from the the warehouse 0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:06.920 is the warehouse explodes into you know in the movies, 0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:10.399 and he's driving his car and on the background there's 0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:14.040 like fire, and you know, it's like Lord of the 0:43:14.120 --> 0:43:18.319 Rings in the background. It's it's a it's a it's 0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:21.640 a it's an intense place, and I've really kind of 0:43:22.080 --> 0:43:26.600 enjoyed and not enjoyed living here. I don't think I've 0:43:26.640 --> 0:43:31.040 ever been more stressed out than I've than than to 0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:35.080 be in in LA than any other city I've ever 0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:38.080 lived in. So I'm quite ready to move on to 0:43:38.719 --> 0:43:40.880 I mean, I think about maybe moving back to New 0:43:40.960 --> 0:43:42.759 York because my kid is going to art school there 0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:47.759 next next year. Like New York, I mean, when we 0:43:48.000 --> 0:43:49.759 moved out of New York, it was like, fuck, man, 0:43:49.800 --> 0:43:54.120 this place is that it's just too crazy. But it's 0:43:54.680 --> 0:43:57.240 there's you know, it has it has. There is more 0:43:58.640 --> 0:44:01.040 chance to bump into people on the streets in New 0:44:01.080 --> 0:44:02.680 York and less so here. 0:44:04.560 --> 0:44:07.399 Okay, how do you keep a band together when you're 0:44:07.440 --> 0:44:09.840 living in Berlin and then you're living in la. 0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:20.960 We met in various different ways, and we became a 0:44:21.000 --> 0:44:30.040 band eventually, And hmmm, what drew is to one another 0:44:31.080 --> 0:44:34.000 as friends is the thing that's at the core of 0:44:34.040 --> 0:44:36.680 the band, This friendship between the four of us, and 0:44:37.440 --> 0:44:41.880 each relationship, my relationship to Kneel and the drummer, to Dougie, 0:44:42.280 --> 0:44:46.799 to Andy the guitarist, and Andy's relationship to me and 0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:52.839 the two other guys, and you know, everyone's relationships I've 0:44:52.880 --> 0:44:56.239 woven in such a way as it's it's a very 0:44:56.320 --> 0:45:00.880 manageable relationship. You know, some bands get together in the 0:45:01.000 --> 0:45:04.720 last two weeks and you know, the front man falls 0:45:04.760 --> 0:45:07.160 out with a guitarist because the guitars wants to be 0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:09.239 the singer or I don't know, or the front of 0:45:09.239 --> 0:45:11.480 mine wants to be the drummer. I don't know. And 0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:18.160 some bands last, you know, like us twenty years as 0:45:18.160 --> 0:45:22.120 a band, thirty four years as friends. And I think 0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:26.040 there's a lot that's a lot to do with making 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:29.200 each other laugh. There's a lot of laughter in our relationship. 0:45:30.120 --> 0:45:34.719 It's funny like each year that goes on, when we 0:45:34.760 --> 0:45:41.640 do interviews, we we're asked this more and more, like 0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:47.000 what keeps you together? Because it's like I feel like sometimes, 0:45:47.040 --> 0:45:49.520 like you know, you get these couples that be married 0:45:49.560 --> 0:45:53.000 for like fifty sixty years and it's like, oh my god, 0:45:54.040 --> 0:45:57.640 And I guess it's like you just we make each 0:45:57.640 --> 0:46:03.320 other laugh. We really expect each other space, the personal space. 0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:08.960 We also we're friends, but you're in a band together, 0:46:09.080 --> 0:46:13.399 your business partners as well, but you're also married. It's 0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:18.279 a weird quasi place between all of those three that 0:46:18.440 --> 0:46:24.480 trifecta of things and the relationship of our by this 0:46:24.520 --> 0:46:29.520 somewhere in the middle of it. And you know, you'd 0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:31.880 take a bullet for them, but you could shoot them sometimes, 0:46:33.320 --> 0:46:36.920 you know what I mean, Like like any marriage that 0:46:37.320 --> 0:46:41.799 seems to work is there's a sort of duality there. 0:46:42.160 --> 0:46:46.040 And I mean, I love the guys in my band 0:46:46.160 --> 0:46:48.640 and we love each other, and I think that's the 0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:49.320 bottom line. 0:46:49.719 --> 0:46:52.680 Yeah, but if you're all that in the same location, 0:46:53.080 --> 0:46:53.839 how does it work? 0:46:54.200 --> 0:46:57.239 All? Right? Well, thankfully we can. We get together and 0:46:57.280 --> 0:47:02.000 play shows in the same location and uh, and we 0:47:02.040 --> 0:47:05.080 go into the studio in the same location. And when 0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:07.880 we're not on the road or in the studio, we're 0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:12.120 in our different places. And and we don't need to 0:47:12.160 --> 0:47:14.560 be together all the time, because when you're on the road, 0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:17.640 you are together all the time. I think we've spent 0:47:17.840 --> 0:47:22.800 more time together than we spent with anyone in our lives, 0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:28.440 probably maybe even our own children. So yeah, we we 0:47:29.160 --> 0:47:33.120 almost like that the bat phone goes and we're like, Okay, 0:47:33.200 --> 0:47:35.640 we'll be right there, and we all we all turn 0:47:35.760 --> 0:47:38.560 up to the show and and and then you go 0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:40.520 on tour, like we're about to go on a tour 0:47:40.840 --> 0:47:49.000 in America and we're going to turn up in Raley, 0:47:49.120 --> 0:47:55.279 North Carolina on Monday and get on bus and off 0:47:55.320 --> 0:48:00.400 we go, and like we've been to get there for 0:48:00.560 --> 0:48:05.640 like a long time. And I think like it just 0:48:06.320 --> 0:48:08.399 I mean I mean, god, we've there's some I mean, 0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:10.479 I don't know I should say this, but there's there's 0:48:10.480 --> 0:48:14.680 some like big shows we've done where we've maybe not 0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:18.720 played for like two years, like we've had a blong 0:48:18.880 --> 0:48:25.239 break and h we've gone, fuck it, let's just do 0:48:25.320 --> 0:48:26.680 the show and see if we can just do it 0:48:26.719 --> 0:48:31.520 without raharsing, just just for the hell of it. And 0:48:31.520 --> 0:48:34.520 its fine because it's like fallen off a bike. So 0:48:34.800 --> 0:48:37.279 it is to me all the bands that I love, 0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:42.279 they've always kept there the sanctity of the band. You 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:46.319 know that the four members have remained the same until 0:48:46.360 --> 0:48:50.640 the band had broken up. So yeah, it's it's it's 0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:53.000 pretty easy to. 0:48:52.680 --> 0:48:55.040 Okay, so you're going to go on the road, you're 0:48:55.080 --> 0:48:56.399 not going to rehearse at all. 0:48:56.680 --> 0:49:00.719 Oh No, we've we've we've basically come we've basically come 0:49:01.800 --> 0:49:05.239 off a UK tour, so we don't wear weird. We're 0:49:05.360 --> 0:49:08.400 so rehearsed. We've only had like three weeks off, so 0:49:08.520 --> 0:49:21.760 we're we're in peak match fitness right now. Yeah. 0:49:22.640 --> 0:49:27.520 Okay, you talked earlier about being in Brussels talking about 0:49:27.640 --> 0:49:30.920 remuneration for recordings. Can you tell us more about your 0:49:31.000 --> 0:49:31.839 viewpoint on that. 0:49:33.480 --> 0:49:38.320 Yeah, I don't know where I stand on that anymore. 0:49:39.080 --> 0:49:44.600 I'm still getting everything's changing so quickly right now, and 0:49:45.239 --> 0:49:51.440 it's just they don't know where I stand on it. 0:49:51.920 --> 0:49:53.160 I was talking. I was saying, in. 0:49:53.239 --> 0:49:59.759 A car park, we are driving out of a concrete 0:50:00.160 --> 0:50:01.920 car park the other day and there was a guy 0:50:01.960 --> 0:50:05.880 with his window down playing music, dance music, really. 0:50:07.440 --> 0:50:11.279 That's kind of music. And I had never heard this 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:14.960 song ever. I don't know. It was like, no idea 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:17.880 what this song was. This guy was. This guy was 0:50:17.960 --> 0:50:20.960 loving this. He was really getting into it, and it 0:50:21.000 --> 0:50:24.440 made me think, like I was. I just had this 0:50:24.480 --> 0:50:28.200 thought to myself that maybe in the next ten years, 0:50:29.360 --> 0:50:39.239 we'll see with all of the artificial intelligence and deep 0:50:39.320 --> 0:50:48.960 learnings of AI sort of things happening, you'll have so 0:50:49.000 --> 0:50:52.560 you'll have all the music that you like that you 0:50:52.640 --> 0:50:55.840 listen to you know it. So iTunes will know or 0:50:55.840 --> 0:50:58.879 Spotify will know what your favorite songs are because they 0:50:58.920 --> 0:51:02.640 push you in songs, they know what you like. You'll 0:51:02.640 --> 0:51:06.040 discover new songs, and so that's what's happening at the moment. 0:51:06.480 --> 0:51:09.839 And when I heard this guy's music that I didn't know, 0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:13.640 and he was like as if it was like he 0:51:13.760 --> 0:51:18.040 was listening to I don't know like something. Everyone was like, 0:51:18.080 --> 0:51:20.640 he just loved this music that I had no idea of. 0:51:21.160 --> 0:51:23.359 It made me think maybe in the next ten years 0:51:23.440 --> 0:51:30.120 or even sooner, there'll come a time when those companies Apple, Spotify, 0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:35.759 the streamers will have their own way of so you 0:51:35.880 --> 0:51:41.759 use a user, well, you'll be able to generate your 0:51:41.840 --> 0:51:49.760 own music that is so well done that it's almost 0:51:49.960 --> 0:51:52.759 it might even get to number one of the charts, 0:51:53.520 --> 0:51:55.799 and it will just be based on what you like. 0:51:57.320 --> 0:52:00.160 It's getting there. I mean, I was thinking the other day, 0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:04.560 like I was actually talking to chat GPT about it. 0:52:05.520 --> 0:52:09.440 Have you ever talked to chat GPT? No, you should 0:52:09.480 --> 0:52:13.799 try it. It's it's it's a it's a it's a 0:52:13.840 --> 0:52:17.799 it's a it's a trip. So you can actually talk 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:20.400 to it now, and it talked back to you really 0:52:20.440 --> 0:52:23.200 like a like when you're talking. And I was saying 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:27.200 to it because I had this thought that we'd we 0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:33.240 started this is a quite interesting bookend because we started 0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:37.640 talking about Google and my feelings of the finger of 0:52:38.040 --> 0:52:44.480 the silicon finger being like being anally anally inserted into 0:52:44.520 --> 0:52:50.120 your data. I think that I was thinking, in the future, 0:52:50.480 --> 0:52:55.680 wouldn't it be a nice thing. If every person you me, 0:52:57.800 --> 0:53:02.200 every person like these these these companies were able to 0:53:02.360 --> 0:53:07.319 mine every email that you've ever written, every phone call 0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:11.840 you've ever made, every like I'm sure they maybe do 0:53:11.880 --> 0:53:13.480 a little bit of it just now because they know 0:53:13.520 --> 0:53:17.000 what to push you for adverts and whatnot. But imagine like, 0:53:17.320 --> 0:53:19.120 because when I look at my emails, I have a 0:53:19.160 --> 0:53:22.040 certain tone and I'm sure you do too, right, And 0:53:23.440 --> 0:53:28.200 so if they got all of that information on a 0:53:29.000 --> 0:53:32.640 on on a language sort of level, and and and 0:53:32.760 --> 0:53:36.000 crunched it all together, and then they used your actual 0:53:36.120 --> 0:53:40.279 voice as well, like they could take now they can 0:53:40.320 --> 0:53:42.719 take my voice. I've done it myself. They've got the 0:53:42.760 --> 0:53:47.600 technology even now where you can say a sentence that 0:53:47.719 --> 0:53:51.120 they give you and then you can write anything and 0:53:51.160 --> 0:53:53.920 it will say in your voice. It's pretty amazing and 0:53:54.000 --> 0:53:58.040 it's very early days yet. But if you could crunch 0:53:58.080 --> 0:54:01.600 all the information from all your emails and canmmunications and 0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:08.160 somehow get your personality or close ish to your personality 0:54:08.200 --> 0:54:10.760 out of that, Like how would you answer a question 0:54:11.640 --> 0:54:15.080 about Brexit, or how would you answer a question Fran 0:54:15.320 --> 0:54:19.680 about or Bob about your mum or you know or 0:54:19.719 --> 0:54:26.480 your family or whatever imagine, like I've lost a lot 0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:29.919 of people. I just lost my friend, a really really 0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:33.719 good friend of mine, just before Christmas, and we were 0:54:33.760 --> 0:54:37.040 texting to each other a couple of days before it, 0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:44.719 and I was looking through the texts and it's like 0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:48.560 he's pretty much there, and the textion was his personality's 0:54:48.600 --> 0:54:52.640 definitely there. But imagine you could if your dad died, 0:54:52.880 --> 0:54:55.040 or your mom died, or your brother or sister died, 0:54:55.320 --> 0:54:58.080 or your best friend died, and you could call them up, 0:55:00.080 --> 0:55:02.120 you know, you could just like speak to them and 0:55:02.160 --> 0:55:06.560 they would speak back and at the close ish to them, 0:55:06.680 --> 0:55:09.880 and it was based on all their millions and billions 0:55:09.880 --> 0:55:12.080 of emails that they've written in, all of their phone 0:55:12.120 --> 0:55:14.520 calls and all of whatever is I think that would 0:55:14.520 --> 0:55:17.239 be a nice thing to do with everyone's information rather 0:55:17.280 --> 0:55:23.160 than pushing you know by this Alapisia cream threw your hair, 0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:25.239 you know what I mean? 0:55:25.520 --> 0:55:27.319 Well, I mean there are a couple of things there. 0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:31.680 On some level, we're on the continuum because it used 0:55:31.680 --> 0:55:33.160 to be and I grew up on the East Coast, 0:55:33.200 --> 0:55:36.160 I moved to the West coast. You kind of lost 0:55:36.200 --> 0:55:40.880 touch with people. Your kid, who's what nineteen or whatever, 0:55:41.120 --> 0:55:44.839 he's never going to lose touch with anybody. Everybody's going 0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:47.960 to be completely reachable. I mean, you talk about the fires, 0:55:48.400 --> 0:55:51.320 somebody tracked me down for somebody's phone number, who's in 0:55:51.360 --> 0:55:54.560 a hotel. In the old days, if you would change 0:55:54.560 --> 0:55:57.920 your number all the time, Today people have a number 0:55:58.520 --> 0:56:01.120 that's their number. They don't want to change it because 0:56:01.160 --> 0:56:05.040 everybody knows it, et cetera. But I think when it 0:56:05.080 --> 0:56:08.759 comes to creativity, there's a human I mean, it's like 0:56:08.840 --> 0:56:11.960 you were talking, You're talking about you know, this is 0:56:12.000 --> 0:56:14.360 one of these algorithmic things people tell. You know, I 0:56:14.360 --> 0:56:17.960 got a big bug up my ass because statistically active 0:56:18.040 --> 0:56:22.440 users don't listen to playlists they pick and choose. But 0:56:23.520 --> 0:56:27.480 what if I'm listening to Jackson Brown and Joni Mitchell. 0:56:28.040 --> 0:56:31.200 It's never going to predict that I buy the First 0:56:31.239 --> 0:56:34.840 Wire album one four three. But I bought it and 0:56:34.920 --> 0:56:37.439 I listened to it and I kind of liked it. 0:56:38.160 --> 0:56:42.520 You know, same thing. You know, It's like research. Steve 0:56:42.680 --> 0:56:48.439 Jobs legend a difficult person, but leaving that alone, never 0:56:48.480 --> 0:56:52.640 did any market research. Market reasters tell you where you've been. 0:56:53.600 --> 0:56:55.640 I won't tell you where you're going. It's like people 0:56:55.640 --> 0:56:59.680 send you AI songs that sound like legendary acts and 0:56:59.719 --> 0:57:03.319 you go, oh, well that's kind of cool, but you 0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:07.400 don't continue to listen. And it's like whenever you listen, 0:57:07.440 --> 0:57:09.359 you know, we listen to the old favorites, but what 0:57:09.400 --> 0:57:13.400 we're hungry for is the new and different. So listen. 0:57:14.640 --> 0:57:19.400 There will definitely be evolution. But moving on from this point, 0:57:19.640 --> 0:57:22.720 you're going on the road. Do you have to go 0:57:22.840 --> 0:57:25.320 on the road for the money or you're going on 0:57:25.360 --> 0:57:27.720 the road because you're a band and that's what you do. 0:57:29.600 --> 0:57:34.880 You're asking some very good questions. It's great, great question. 0:57:35.320 --> 0:57:44.480 So it's a it's a balance. We when Travis started, like, 0:57:44.600 --> 0:57:47.680 first of all, all of the bands that made me 0:57:47.760 --> 0:57:51.880 once to get into a band, we're American. I just 0:57:52.400 --> 0:57:55.960 I mean it's being maybe it's a Scottish thing. We 0:57:56.280 --> 0:57:58.160 look over to America and we just love we all 0:57:58.200 --> 0:58:00.760 loved your accent, you know, I love the American accident 0:58:00.800 --> 0:58:03.040 and all the movies and the TV shows and it 0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:05.640 was just like couldn't get enough of it, and your 0:58:05.640 --> 0:58:09.240 culture was really it was just this the shining White 0:58:09.240 --> 0:58:12.400 House on the hell kind of it was to us 0:58:13.720 --> 0:58:16.400 and all the ball the music that come out of America. 0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:18.960 I mean I've got you sort of take your own 0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:23.440 for granted, the Beatles and all that thing, but Irm 0:58:23.520 --> 0:58:28.480 for instance, was a huge influence on me, not musically, 0:58:28.840 --> 0:58:32.760 but more like, this is what a band should feel 0:58:32.800 --> 0:58:36.240 like their career should be, not just this rocket to 0:58:36.280 --> 0:58:39.240 the moon and then remain in orbit for it. It's like 0:58:39.280 --> 0:58:40.919 it should go up and down, you should go left 0:58:40.960 --> 0:58:45.200 and right, and the band should stay together. And then 0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:49.320 Bill Barry sort of had his aneurysm and stepped aside, 0:58:49.360 --> 0:58:51.000 and they went on for a little bit longer. But 0:58:52.040 --> 0:58:55.600 when they were a four piece, they were my template 0:58:55.680 --> 0:58:58.640 as well as the band Robbie Robertson, Leave On Hell, 0:58:58.720 --> 0:59:02.640 et cetera. They were, if you could sort of Travis 0:59:02.640 --> 0:59:06.200 Are somewhere in It's like a cocktail of those two bands. 0:59:06.680 --> 0:59:10.880 So when we first came out to America, we toured 0:59:10.880 --> 0:59:15.200 with Ben Folds five, and we kept coming touring and 0:59:15.240 --> 0:59:19.040 touring and touring, never making a penny. We never ever 0:59:19.240 --> 0:59:25.040 ever have made money in America ever, We've never We've 0:59:25.080 --> 0:59:28.360 maybe lost money once at the very early days when 0:59:28.400 --> 0:59:33.640 we were starting out, but we generally we have all 0:59:33.680 --> 0:59:37.280 through our history just broken even in America. So we 0:59:37.360 --> 0:59:40.760 come to America when you see Travis in America, we're 0:59:40.760 --> 0:59:44.640 coming to see you. We're not there to make any 0:59:44.640 --> 0:59:47.480 money or anything, because we've never made money in America, 0:59:47.920 --> 0:59:51.360 and our manager didn't really like that, so he stopped. 0:59:51.400 --> 0:59:54.600 He stopped, he stopped bringing us over here fourteen years ago, 0:59:55.400 --> 1:00:01.440 and eventually we we we changed their manag sure after 1:00:01.600 --> 1:00:06.520 twenty twenty odd years and and now that we're a 1:00:06.600 --> 1:00:08.920 little bit more in control of our of the controls 1:00:08.960 --> 1:00:13.720 of our of our spaceship, we're coming back. And we 1:00:13.800 --> 1:00:16.240 might not make any money in America, but it's not 1:00:16.280 --> 1:00:21.480 about money. Like you ask any any songwriter or a 1:00:21.560 --> 1:00:25.800 musician or artists worth their salt, or journalist or anyone 1:00:25.800 --> 1:00:31.720 who makes something from nothing, they you probably find that 1:00:31.800 --> 1:00:35.560 most of them are kind of like like, wow, we 1:00:35.840 --> 1:00:39.120 we we're still getting away with this. You know, we're 1:00:39.160 --> 1:00:43.200 still able to do this. So I would say, coming 1:00:43.240 --> 1:00:49.040 to America, we Travis Priky, we go and do like festivals. 1:00:49.280 --> 1:00:52.920 This is where bands generally make their their their like 1:00:53.000 --> 1:00:57.480 paydays and and festivals are very different from their own shows. 1:00:57.800 --> 1:01:02.920 And we're we haven't really toured in America for fourteen years, 1:01:02.920 --> 1:01:05.680 so this is like this tours. I feel like we're 1:01:08.360 --> 1:01:13.760 can have. It's like starting over again. It feels I 1:01:13.800 --> 1:01:16.800 think there's a lot of a lot of work to 1:01:16.880 --> 1:01:21.080 do in America, and then I don't know if there's 1:01:21.160 --> 1:01:23.520 enough years left in my life to do it. But 1:01:24.960 --> 1:01:30.560 we have a good following here and people come and 1:01:30.600 --> 1:01:33.160 see us, so I guess that's good. 1:01:34.200 --> 1:01:37.280 Okay, underneath that, you're gonna go on the road. Let's 1:01:37.320 --> 1:01:40.840 just assume you break even. You're gonna play venues where 1:01:40.880 --> 1:01:46.120 everybody's gonna know all the songs, great personal experience. In 1:01:46.200 --> 1:01:49.600 the back of your mind, are you saying, well, if 1:01:49.640 --> 1:01:54.640 this is really great, maybe next time they'll bring their friends, 1:01:54.680 --> 1:01:58.720 will be larger venues, or maybe there'll be some spark. 1:01:59.400 --> 1:02:00.520 Is that part of it? 1:02:02.440 --> 1:02:04.959 Yeah, there's definitely a part of it. Every band wants 1:02:04.960 --> 1:02:08.640 to break America, every band, because it's like there's there's 1:02:08.640 --> 1:02:11.960 a there's there's different aspects of of what it is 1:02:11.960 --> 1:02:14.000 that we do. One of them is try and write 1:02:14.040 --> 1:02:17.760 a melody that you've not heard before, try and speak 1:02:17.800 --> 1:02:20.800 your heart. Don't write a song, don't don't ever ever 1:02:20.880 --> 1:02:25.360 write a song to fit with the current wallpaper. Just 1:02:25.400 --> 1:02:28.680 like Steve job Right, I write songs. I'm a big 1:02:28.720 --> 1:02:33.880 believer in that. Just if it comes out like it's you, 1:02:34.000 --> 1:02:37.080 don't don't kill it because it doesn't look like all 1:02:37.120 --> 1:02:40.640 the other ones. You know, like like that that because 1:02:40.640 --> 1:02:43.520 it doesn't look the other ones, then that's something to celebrate. 1:02:43.720 --> 1:02:46.120 So all the songs that come out has to mean something. 1:02:46.640 --> 1:02:49.160 But there's also another aspect of it, which is wow. 1:02:49.200 --> 1:02:52.960 You know, like songs are like a cure. Songs are 1:02:52.960 --> 1:02:56.919 like medicine. They're like magic spells. And you can see 1:02:56.960 --> 1:03:01.360 it when you when you play a show. The challenge 1:03:01.400 --> 1:03:09.960 is break America and and but don't don't lose that 1:03:10.280 --> 1:03:15.520 core value. Don't don't don't do it against your core values. 1:03:15.880 --> 1:03:19.560 Don't burn your core value used to break America. If 1:03:19.600 --> 1:03:22.400 you break America, it'll probably be the backs. And we 1:03:22.480 --> 1:03:26.400 broke Europe and the United Kingdom in nineteen ninety nine, 1:03:26.480 --> 1:03:31.880 about two thousand and three, and then it was but 1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:36.600 it was real, it was it's not It wasn't really 1:03:36.640 --> 1:03:41.720 that enjoyable because you suddenly you're famous, and then everyone 1:03:41.800 --> 1:03:46.720 treats you differently, and then suddenly you're it's a weird thing. 1:03:46.760 --> 1:03:49.960 I can't imagine what it's like to break America. But 1:03:50.000 --> 1:03:54.720 the challenge is to hold on to your core values 1:03:55.680 --> 1:04:02.360 and be and play bigger venues because these songs, they 1:04:02.520 --> 1:04:06.640 they work, they're they're a cure. They make people feel better. 1:04:06.720 --> 1:04:09.840 They and you and I both know when you hear 1:04:09.920 --> 1:04:15.280 a song you talked about Jackson Brown, I was listening to, 1:04:15.520 --> 1:04:23.200 Oh God, it's that song. It's in Taxi Driver, remember 1:04:23.200 --> 1:04:28.200 the name for this late for this guy. So that 1:04:28.520 --> 1:04:31.480 when I heard that song, and I didn't really know 1:04:31.560 --> 1:04:33.600 Jackson Brown. I know what it looks like and a 1:04:33.600 --> 1:04:37.880 few friends had records by albums and then I heard 1:04:37.920 --> 1:04:39.560 that song and I was like, who the fuck is this? 1:04:40.400 --> 1:04:45.680 And it like it went into me. I was sorry 1:04:45.760 --> 1:04:48.919 for digressing, jumping and popping and even but my brain 1:04:49.000 --> 1:04:53.160 jumps around a little bit. Last night, I was lying 1:04:53.200 --> 1:04:57.840 in bed with my mother half and it was like 1:04:58.040 --> 1:05:00.680 one o'clock in the morning and we're sort of trying 1:05:00.680 --> 1:05:07.760 to fall asleep, and the end song on a TV 1:05:07.880 --> 1:05:14.920 show we were watching was Wichita Lineman, which I mean, 1:05:14.920 --> 1:05:16.840 I could tear you just thinking about that song. What 1:05:16.960 --> 1:05:20.800 is it about that song that makes me like like 1:05:20.880 --> 1:05:23.200 well up? And there's a line in it and I 1:05:23.240 --> 1:05:29.400 was saying to say, like, what, what an amazing thing? 1:05:30.320 --> 1:05:32.160 There's a line in that song that goes and I 1:05:32.240 --> 1:05:34.840 need you more than want you, and I want you 1:05:34.880 --> 1:05:38.160 for all the time. Isn't it great that you can 1:05:38.280 --> 1:05:42.320 hear a song and that one line can last you 1:05:42.320 --> 1:05:46.520 your whole life. I can, I can eat that line 1:05:46.560 --> 1:05:51.440 forever because it never ever it's like a riddle or something, 1:05:51.520 --> 1:05:53.960 and you sit with it and you're like, oh it 1:05:55.000 --> 1:05:58.840 even now just saying I'm like, oh, such a gorgeous 1:05:59.280 --> 1:06:01.760 use the words, the melody and the emotion and the 1:06:01.800 --> 1:06:05.240 strings sound on top of it. It's music is like 1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:09.040 a So if you're a musician who writes from the heart, 1:06:09.320 --> 1:06:13.520 it goes out and you we're not we're not, we're 1:06:13.960 --> 1:06:17.200 never just we're not doing it for money. Right, You're 1:06:17.240 --> 1:06:20.360 out and you're you're you're carrying the cure. You're you're 1:06:20.400 --> 1:06:23.680 taking it to people to make people feel better, and 1:06:23.720 --> 1:06:28.040 I'm if you doing that, then I want to take 1:06:28.040 --> 1:06:31.200 it to a bigger audience. You might never your audience 1:06:31.280 --> 1:06:34.240 might never get bigger because you're not in control of 1:06:34.280 --> 1:06:39.800 that at all. But but the temptation to take it bigger, 1:06:40.360 --> 1:06:44.880 to cure more people, to make hearts feel better, Like 1:06:45.280 --> 1:06:49.040 people come up to me all the time and tell 1:06:49.080 --> 1:06:51.120 me all this song really helped me, or this song 1:06:51.160 --> 1:06:54.040 got me back in touch with my dad, or because 1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:56.480 we both liked it, and you know, it's like wow, 1:06:56.880 --> 1:07:01.480 it's a powerful thing, is music. And I'm I'm deeply 1:07:02.440 --> 1:07:05.640 kind of humbled and everything to be able to do it. 1:07:07.720 --> 1:07:12.800 And I definitely I think I think we've been singing 1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:14.919 longer than we've been speaking. And I think that's why 1:07:15.040 --> 1:07:23.360 music's maybe goes deeper than all of the arts. 1:07:26.200 --> 1:07:30.440 Okay, you talk about not selling out and you got 1:07:30.480 --> 1:07:33.480 to speak from the heart. To what degree didn't you 1:07:33.600 --> 1:07:38.960 dissociate yourself from the audience. Let's use the reverse paradigm. 1:07:39.480 --> 1:07:42.280 There are all these people in writing sessions as we 1:07:42.360 --> 1:07:47.960 speak in Nashville trying to write a hit. Okay, yeah, 1:07:48.000 --> 1:07:50.680 is there ever in your mind going, well, you know 1:07:51.720 --> 1:07:53.560 if I do that, I want to write my own 1:07:53.600 --> 1:07:55.720 Wichita Lineman, let me see how I can put the 1:07:55.760 --> 1:07:56.560 pieces together. 1:07:57.760 --> 1:08:00.240 Of course you do that every time you sit down song. 1:08:00.280 --> 1:08:06.840 But you don't write Richita Iman. You write Richard ta Wineman. Right, 1:08:07.680 --> 1:08:12.480 You're you're just you're trying to all everything. You're like 1:08:12.520 --> 1:08:16.280 a You're like a tea bag in every single song 1:08:16.320 --> 1:08:18.880 you've ever listened to and every experience you've ever had, 1:08:19.280 --> 1:08:21.280 and every time your heart's being broken or you've been 1:08:21.360 --> 1:08:24.120 let down, or every time you've been lightened up, it's 1:08:24.160 --> 1:08:25.840 a tea leaf in that tea bag and then the 1:08:25.880 --> 1:08:27.760 hot water pours in and then a cup of tea 1:08:27.800 --> 1:08:31.000 comes out, and it's a different flavor every time. You 1:08:31.040 --> 1:08:32.559 don't know what you're going to get. When you sit 1:08:32.600 --> 1:08:34.519 down to write a song, you don't know what it's 1:08:34.560 --> 1:08:37.720 going to be. It's fucking amazing. It's a miracle. It's 1:08:37.800 --> 1:08:42.160 like like we're talking to Dougie, our best player when 1:08:42.200 --> 1:08:45.040 we were on tour and U can. He's like, yes, 1:08:45.439 --> 1:08:47.519 our shows kind of we have the song and we 1:08:47.600 --> 1:08:51.000 have a talk a lot on stage, and I don't 1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:53.000 have anything in my head before I go on stage. 1:08:53.000 --> 1:08:55.920 I just talk. So some nights it's just nonsense and 1:08:55.960 --> 1:09:02.000 it's and some nights I say some quite cool stuff. 1:09:02.600 --> 1:09:05.479 But there's definitely two different bits of the gig. And 1:09:05.520 --> 1:09:09.880 he says there's the talking bit, and it gets the 1:09:09.960 --> 1:09:12.800 audience is listening to that, and then he says the song. 1:09:12.880 --> 1:09:16.720 Then the song begins and he says songs like a 1:09:16.760 --> 1:09:20.839 magic spell, and everyone sort of go into this strange 1:09:20.840 --> 1:09:24.080 sort of reverie for about four minutes and then you 1:09:24.160 --> 1:09:26.439 sort of come out of it. And the only people 1:09:26.439 --> 1:09:29.080 who are not under the spell are the other roadies 1:09:30.280 --> 1:09:33.439 and the guys who are having a like hold the 1:09:33.479 --> 1:09:37.320 spelling place because they can't and if they do, and 1:09:37.439 --> 1:09:44.200 sometimes they do, go into the spell zone. So yeah, 1:09:44.600 --> 1:09:48.000 the Nashville thing is an interesting thing because you've got 1:09:48.120 --> 1:09:52.920 ten guys sitting around deliberately trying to write a hit, 1:09:53.920 --> 1:09:59.840 deliberately thinking. I mean, it's the way the music business 1:10:00.280 --> 1:10:04.600 has done its thing. I mean, ninety eight percent of 1:10:04.640 --> 1:10:10.040 the music business is that, and that's song designing. I'm 1:10:10.040 --> 1:10:15.000 more interested in song divining. And that's where the two schools. 1:10:15.080 --> 1:10:18.160 That's where AI comes in. That AI will replace that 1:10:19.240 --> 1:10:21.840 the thing that I'm doing, the thing that you're doing. 1:10:22.400 --> 1:10:26.800 AI can't replace it because you need to you need 1:10:27.479 --> 1:10:30.040 you need to get your hand bitten by a dog. 1:10:30.080 --> 1:10:32.920 You need to get you need to get carjacked, you 1:10:32.960 --> 1:10:37.360 need to see someone dying in front of you, You 1:10:37.439 --> 1:10:41.200 need to look into like kiss your granda's forehead and 1:10:41.520 --> 1:10:46.439 his coffin right that. AI can't fucking do that. And 1:10:46.520 --> 1:10:52.000 that's where songwriting or No, I didn't even want to 1:10:52.040 --> 1:10:55.679 call it that magic. Spell making really comes in handy 1:10:56.240 --> 1:11:00.799 and that's why you'll all but always need it, because 1:11:00.960 --> 1:11:05.080 we all need that touch human touch thing that makes 1:11:05.120 --> 1:11:07.719 us human humans. That makes sense. 1:11:08.360 --> 1:11:13.000 So let's just say you had to stop today. Let's 1:11:13.000 --> 1:11:17.720 not talk about why do you have enough money? And 1:11:17.760 --> 1:11:20.519 there's enough money coming in from your history of Travis 1:11:20.600 --> 1:11:24.040 to get to you to the end. Yeah, okay, so 1:11:24.160 --> 1:11:28.640 you're not doing this primarily for money, and. 1:11:30.120 --> 1:11:32.280 What's my job? So you get paid for it, right, 1:11:33.200 --> 1:11:35.639 for for doing like the festivals and things and that 1:11:35.640 --> 1:11:38.360 that sort of. But I'm lucky enough to have written 1:11:38.439 --> 1:11:43.840 some evergreen songs that that the residuals are like good. Yeah, 1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:46.599 it's it's not it's not it's not great, but it's 1:11:47.120 --> 1:11:51.639 it's not like I grew up poor. And that's another thing, 1:11:51.680 --> 1:11:54.559 you know, like if you're poor, you're all of this, 1:11:55.000 --> 1:11:59.200 all these wonderful things like music and art, culture and 1:11:59.400 --> 1:12:04.760 journalists and all those things are not on your menu. 1:12:05.840 --> 1:12:10.479 You're you're going to go to school, You're you're going 1:12:10.560 --> 1:12:14.000 to not enjoy it. You're going to leave and get 1:12:14.000 --> 1:12:18.600 a job, have a have a family, and die and 1:12:19.880 --> 1:12:22.920 life's going to be hard. It's going to be cool 1:12:22.960 --> 1:12:24.599 and nice and there's going to be all the ups 1:12:24.640 --> 1:12:28.120 and downs, and but I, like I said, it wasn't 1:12:28.120 --> 1:12:30.000 one of the menu for me. And my mum moved 1:12:30.040 --> 1:12:32.840 us from this very like where we lived was the 1:12:32.840 --> 1:12:38.519 Heroin capital of Europe in nineteen eighty three or eighty two, 1:12:39.720 --> 1:12:43.679 place called Possel Park like if you's it's like fossil 1:12:43.880 --> 1:12:48.960 but with a p and we lived there and she 1:12:49.120 --> 1:12:52.360 moved us over to the south side of Glasgow and 1:12:52.560 --> 1:12:57.000 to one of the best normal just schools, but it 1:12:57.120 --> 1:12:59.679 was one of the best schools in the whole city. 1:13:00.800 --> 1:13:04.600 And at this school, I there was a couple of 1:13:04.640 --> 1:13:10.120 teachers that saw something in me and even polished it 1:13:10.160 --> 1:13:13.760 a little bit and gave me confidence and got me 1:13:13.960 --> 1:13:17.280 and went look at this. Look here's the impressionists. You 1:13:17.360 --> 1:13:19.479 can draw. I mean that's what I did. I was 1:13:19.479 --> 1:13:23.639 a drawer. I never like like I think, I only 1:13:23.640 --> 1:13:26.479 started singing like when I was like much older and 1:13:26.560 --> 1:13:28.640 being in bands was much more down the line. But 1:13:29.000 --> 1:13:32.799 art and drawing and visual art was much more my things. 1:13:33.000 --> 1:13:38.479 Kind of still isn't a way, So yeah, I didn't. 1:13:38.960 --> 1:13:44.760 That wasn't on the menu and for me and so 1:13:44.920 --> 1:13:51.760 I to think that I have residuals or you from 1:13:51.840 --> 1:13:57.400 get played on the radio from these songs is partly 1:13:58.560 --> 1:14:04.120 kind of like wow again, Like I say, like musicians 1:14:04.120 --> 1:14:06.800 are a little bit like can you believe we're getting 1:14:06.840 --> 1:14:10.040 away with this? You can actually make a living out of. 1:14:10.920 --> 1:14:15.799 So have you ever decided to go straight? You didn't decide, 1:14:15.800 --> 1:14:17.519 If you didn't do it, you ever thought about it? Though, 1:14:17.640 --> 1:14:20.160 I just can't do this anymore. For whatever reason. I 1:14:20.160 --> 1:14:21.200 got to do something else. 1:14:21.720 --> 1:14:25.519 Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, I do it. Every time I 1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:29.320 sit down to write a song. I fucking hate writing songs. 1:14:30.000 --> 1:14:36.960 It's the most humiliating tooth pulling process in my life. 1:14:38.280 --> 1:14:42.439 And there's because it's like everyone talks about it like 1:14:42.439 --> 1:14:47.840 it's some kind of artistic thing I have. It's just 1:14:48.040 --> 1:14:54.960 pure digging dig dig dicks. Like uh. The the scene 1:14:54.960 --> 1:14:58.000 at the beginning of There Won't Be Blood, Daniel day 1:14:58.040 --> 1:15:01.240 lewis down the hole like with a little with his 1:15:01.400 --> 1:15:05.599 leg broken, and he's digging and digging and digging looking 1:15:05.600 --> 1:15:07.880 for that little bit of gold that he's going to 1:15:07.920 --> 1:15:10.880 take up and crawl across the desert to the to 1:15:10.920 --> 1:15:12.519 the guy. He's going to crush it down and make 1:15:12.520 --> 1:15:16.840 it into the ring or whatever. It feels like. Songwriting 1:15:16.840 --> 1:15:21.720 to me is very man you And there's a lot 1:15:21.760 --> 1:15:28.479 of like, you know, the sort of classic scrunched up 1:15:28.479 --> 1:15:30.439 bits of paper get thrown at the waste paper by 1:15:30.560 --> 1:15:33.160 his kid. You know, that's a piece of ship. That's 1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:37.160 a piece of ship. And you sort of you've slowly 1:15:37.280 --> 1:15:42.599 drinned your ego down until it's dust and you can't 1:15:43.320 --> 1:15:45.080 and you think you're the worst song writer in the 1:15:45.240 --> 1:15:49.760 entire world. And what I've learned is just beyond the 1:15:49.840 --> 1:15:55.960 crest of that hill of self hate and humiliation lies 1:15:56.000 --> 1:16:00.920 the song. The ego can't. I've learned in my many 1:16:01.000 --> 1:16:05.280 years writing that the ego has to be out of 1:16:05.320 --> 1:16:08.240 the way, it has to be gone for you to 1:16:08.760 --> 1:16:11.559 for the thing to come through you. And when it does, 1:16:12.800 --> 1:16:17.880 it's like it's kind of mad and special. And that's 1:16:17.920 --> 1:16:20.920 the thing you get addicted to. You get addicted to 1:16:20.960 --> 1:16:23.320 that feeling when when a song comes through and you 1:16:23.479 --> 1:16:26.200 let oh my good, when nothing compares to it, there's 1:16:26.240 --> 1:16:29.880 nothing that compares to it. I can only imagine what 1:16:29.960 --> 1:16:32.080 Jimmy Webb thought when when he wrote and I need 1:16:32.120 --> 1:16:34.200 you more than want you, and I want you for 1:16:34.320 --> 1:16:39.320 all time. I mean probably I mean, he's he probably 1:16:39.360 --> 1:16:42.400 punched the air and he was just like yes. But 1:16:42.600 --> 1:16:47.599 to get to that line, who knows if it took 1:16:47.720 --> 1:16:51.080 like months of digging and digging or if it just 1:16:51.240 --> 1:16:56.320 like happened with that. But so yeah, when I'm in that, 1:16:56.560 --> 1:16:59.599 I'm like, fuck this. I do not have fucking hate 1:16:59.600 --> 1:17:03.680 this job. I'm rubbish. I can't do this, But I 1:17:03.760 --> 1:17:06.080 do it because at the back of your head, you 1:17:06.120 --> 1:17:09.080 want that. You want you want to you know that 1:17:09.240 --> 1:17:13.640 the there's a certain arrangement of notes and a rhythm 1:17:14.200 --> 1:17:17.639 that constitute a new melody, and finding a new melody 1:17:17.760 --> 1:17:21.000 and a new song or feeling to put around that 1:17:21.040 --> 1:17:29.240 melody is more overpowering than the humiliation and that I 1:17:29.320 --> 1:17:32.080 want to stop doing this, but I do have those 1:17:32.080 --> 1:17:33.800 feelings like I can't go on. 1:17:34.200 --> 1:17:39.559 Oh okay. But in terms of your process, are you 1:17:39.760 --> 1:17:43.160 always writing songs or you're saying, oh, it's time to 1:17:43.200 --> 1:17:45.760 do an album. I got to sit down and write songs. 1:17:49.000 --> 1:17:51.880 It's like going to the bathroom. It's like flushing a toilet. 1:17:52.479 --> 1:17:55.760 Like no, it's not like litt let's let's keep scatology 1:17:55.760 --> 1:17:59.200 out of it. It's like flushing a toilet. Will stay 1:17:59.240 --> 1:18:03.280 hold we'll stay in the bathroom. But your cistern where 1:18:03.280 --> 1:18:06.760 all the water is kept, it fills up. And in 1:18:06.880 --> 1:18:13.000 this filling up of the cistern is an It is 1:18:13.080 --> 1:18:18.720 what you do between the finishing the last song for 1:18:18.760 --> 1:18:22.960 the last record and beginning writing the next and the 1:18:23.000 --> 1:18:25.599 next song, not the next record, because it's just song 1:18:26.400 --> 1:18:32.800 best and and and right now it's filling up. And 1:18:32.840 --> 1:18:35.200 I know, I know songwriters who have gone in and 1:18:35.240 --> 1:18:38.640 they flush the toilet, and now comes the album, and 1:18:38.680 --> 1:18:42.360 then they go for for the next twenty years and 1:18:42.400 --> 1:18:46.320 they get little little gyps if there's nothing. Really you 1:18:46.400 --> 1:18:48.600 gotta wait for it. You gotta let let let it. 1:18:48.680 --> 1:18:54.200 Let your live a bit go out. You have experiences, 1:18:54.240 --> 1:18:56.519 live your life a little bit. Let the let the 1:18:56.520 --> 1:18:59.160 cistern fill up. I used to feel like shit, I 1:18:59.200 --> 1:19:02.320 don't want to write writer's block. And then I realized 1:19:02.680 --> 1:19:04.360 sort of got wise to it, and I was like, no, 1:19:04.520 --> 1:19:08.000 this is this is part of the process, This is 1:19:08.080 --> 1:19:13.799 part of this is a complete This is like possibly 1:19:13.840 --> 1:19:16.720 the sort of the biggest bit of it, which is 1:19:16.760 --> 1:19:22.559 the the inaction. You know, you're the harvest is only 1:19:22.560 --> 1:19:24.599 a week long. You know, for the rest of the year, 1:19:25.800 --> 1:19:29.639 the field is being tell the seats are being planted, 1:19:31.080 --> 1:19:35.720 then watered, then then grown and then but like I say, 1:19:35.760 --> 1:19:40.439 the harvest is very quick. So right now I'm in 1:19:40.560 --> 1:19:45.799 the follow that I'm quite happy to not be writing. 1:19:46.160 --> 1:19:50.320 Okay, I understand the analogy to the system, Yes, but 1:19:51.560 --> 1:19:55.000 how much of this is eking it out? And how 1:19:55.080 --> 1:19:58.360 much of it is a bolt of lightning raw inspiration? 1:20:00.840 --> 1:20:04.479 Oh, it's all most of it digging. And then then 1:20:04.520 --> 1:20:08.000 you see the little the little something. And I think 1:20:08.600 --> 1:20:12.880 if there's any talent involved in song ring its identities, 1:20:12.960 --> 1:20:16.120 knowing that when you see it, it's having the patience 1:20:16.160 --> 1:20:22.840 to dig, and knowing having the sense to sense the 1:20:22.880 --> 1:20:24.920 glitter when you see it or when you feel it, 1:20:25.760 --> 1:20:28.760 and know that that's worth pursuing, and you pull it 1:20:28.800 --> 1:20:32.000 out very gently, you know, like a little thread of 1:20:32.160 --> 1:20:35.680 nylon out of the the ether, out of nothing, and 1:20:36.400 --> 1:20:38.360 you can make I mean, I was talking to someone 1:20:38.400 --> 1:20:47.400 the other day about what's that like? Two notes? Right? 1:20:48.479 --> 1:20:53.719 Is that that classical music place? Dun damn dunn dwn Right, 1:20:53.920 --> 1:20:58.240 that's two notes. And he took that and he made 1:20:58.240 --> 1:21:02.439 it into a symphony. Two notes, the whole fucking thing 1:21:02.800 --> 1:21:05.679 two notes. And that's what I mean, Like it can be. 1:21:05.960 --> 1:21:11.880 He's so he recognized in that little two notes an 1:21:12.120 --> 1:21:15.439 entire He made an entire. It's like you can pick 1:21:15.439 --> 1:21:17.160 it out and you can make a symphony out of it. 1:21:18.200 --> 1:21:20.120 You can make a two minute pop song out of it. 1:21:20.640 --> 1:21:23.519 You can make a poem, you can write a paint 1:21:23.520 --> 1:21:26.920 of painting. It's so there is a flash of lightning 1:21:27.280 --> 1:21:32.479 and that's but most of it is darkness. That you 1:21:33.120 --> 1:21:34.720 don't see the lightning unless it's dark. 1:21:34.800 --> 1:21:38.960 Okay, so let's assume at what point do you say 1:21:39.160 --> 1:21:42.920 it's time to record, and how does that happen since 1:21:42.960 --> 1:21:44.759 everybody lives in a different location. 1:21:46.320 --> 1:21:55.040 I'm well, you we so you go right, we can't 1:21:55.080 --> 1:21:58.080 just I don't want to. There's there there's a natural 1:21:58.200 --> 1:22:02.400 sort of cycle to it. So you get your you're 1:22:02.439 --> 1:22:06.200 sort of maybe three quarters. You've got maybe you've written 1:22:06.360 --> 1:22:08.960 hundreds and hundreds of ideas, but there's maybe seven that 1:22:09.000 --> 1:22:12.080 are that have a heartbeat or a pulse. So then 1:22:12.160 --> 1:22:14.679 you start talking about like, shoot, like let's let's maybe 1:22:14.760 --> 1:22:18.439 plan for in nine or six or nine months going 1:22:18.479 --> 1:22:20.960 to the studio and make a record. And it's as 1:22:21.000 --> 1:22:23.640 simple as that. You just book the time, put a 1:22:23.680 --> 1:22:26.559 line in the sand, and you go everything has to 1:22:26.600 --> 1:22:30.120 be written and demoed and ready to go by that 1:22:30.240 --> 1:22:34.320 line then you like in our case, the band came 1:22:34.360 --> 1:22:37.080 to Los Angeles, we all went into the studio with 1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:41.040 US producer Tony Hoffer and we spent three weeks which 1:22:41.160 --> 1:22:43.960 recorded the album and it was done. 1:22:44.240 --> 1:22:46.519 So you've worked with a lot of producers. To what 1:22:46.720 --> 1:22:50.040 degree our producers influential and what have you learned? 1:22:50.080 --> 1:22:55.120 There are hugely influential, hugely And they're influential in that 1:22:56.400 --> 1:23:00.360 they're a calm, very calm hand on the wheel there. 1:23:00.800 --> 1:23:05.440 They know how to talk to their like musician whisperers. 1:23:06.280 --> 1:23:09.160 Speaking to a drummer and a guitarist, there's two different languages, 1:23:09.280 --> 1:23:12.040 there's two different types. And they're very very good at 1:23:12.040 --> 1:23:15.080 talking to people and getting the best possible performance out 1:23:15.080 --> 1:23:19.280 of them and almost like the songwriter, they're brilliant at 1:23:19.320 --> 1:23:24.240 spotting the best performance not of that person's life, but 1:23:24.320 --> 1:23:27.320 that goes perfectly with the song. So when you put 1:23:27.320 --> 1:23:30.240 it all together, it's just it's like it sounds like records. 1:23:30.720 --> 1:23:34.799 Nigel Gotshi would would be like I'd be like singing 1:23:35.600 --> 1:23:37.680 and I'd be like that one was brilliant. I was 1:23:37.920 --> 1:23:41.800 I was like that's the best one, and Nigel would 1:23:41.880 --> 1:23:43.960 come on my headphones like that was ship. 1:23:44.360 --> 1:23:44.840 Do it again. 1:23:46.120 --> 1:23:49.880 I'm like, okay, and we do it again. I mean 1:23:49.920 --> 1:23:53.080 he would say that, but we we were like very 1:23:53.120 --> 1:23:57.400 good friends and would joke and he wouldn't mean it shit, 1:23:57.880 --> 1:24:00.880 just mean it's not good enough, so can do it again. 1:24:01.040 --> 1:24:03.519 I'm like, and to the point again, it may be 1:24:03.560 --> 1:24:08.200 an ego thing where I'm like that I'll finished singing something. 1:24:08.240 --> 1:24:12.519 I'm like, that's the worst I've sung that in the 1:24:12.720 --> 1:24:17.120 entire session. And he's like his voice comes on the 1:24:17.120 --> 1:24:21.840 count that was great. He's like, come in and you're like, 1:24:21.960 --> 1:24:26.720 I'm like, it's not great. There's the worst one. And 1:24:25.800 --> 1:24:31.439 you you go in and and plays it back and 1:24:31.479 --> 1:24:38.559 you're just like it's fair because it's a funny again, 1:24:38.640 --> 1:24:41.000 it's like magic, It's really it's really cool. 1:24:41.479 --> 1:24:44.439 So you know there was a peak in the UK 1:24:45.200 --> 1:24:47.840 the turn of the century for Travis. You won these 1:24:47.920 --> 1:24:53.559 brittle awards. All that is great, but emotionally, how is that? 1:24:54.120 --> 1:24:56.440 Do you feel like I want to climb the mountaintop 1:24:56.560 --> 1:25:00.759 or you say that's just one side detour and a trip. 1:25:01.240 --> 1:25:04.200 What do you say you got? I'm pissed that people 1:25:04.200 --> 1:25:06.040 were not getting recognized on that level. 1:25:08.320 --> 1:25:12.280 Two things from from that that period and maybe like 1:25:12.360 --> 1:25:18.320 say the brit Awards, sermon, m we we won two 1:25:18.400 --> 1:25:20.559 years or three years in a row, we won something. 1:25:21.360 --> 1:25:25.839 We gave our awards away to different people that I 1:25:25.840 --> 1:25:28.600 don't really care about awards and that's not bothered, but 1:25:28.600 --> 1:25:31.000 it's nice to get things and be recognized and it's 1:25:31.040 --> 1:25:35.000 a reflection of your success. Walking up to get one 1:25:35.040 --> 1:25:40.880 of them, to get the award, I was walking up 1:25:40.920 --> 1:25:44.920 with the band and there was two levels. There's there's 1:25:44.960 --> 1:25:48.960 like the stages here, there's the first level and then 1:25:48.960 --> 1:25:52.080 there's another level where there's more tables. And we were 1:25:52.080 --> 1:25:54.040 on this level, so you have to get up and 1:25:54.080 --> 1:25:58.280 walk along. There's a sort of glass barrier, you know, 1:25:58.320 --> 1:26:01.800 where people were leaning on it like and as we 1:26:01.800 --> 1:26:05.519 were walking up to get our award for the best 1:26:05.560 --> 1:26:08.120 British Band of the Year or whatever it was, this 1:26:08.240 --> 1:26:11.519 guy stuck his leg out and tripped me up on 1:26:11.640 --> 1:26:15.400 the way to on the way to the to the 1:26:15.680 --> 1:26:18.559 to get match to to get the award. I didn't 1:26:18.600 --> 1:26:20.600 really care about and that he tripped me up and 1:26:20.640 --> 1:26:23.200 I went like I went flying and I was going 1:26:23.280 --> 1:26:25.479 to knock his block off. I was like, fuck you. 1:26:26.520 --> 1:26:30.600 It's it's like come on, and then go up and 1:26:30.680 --> 1:26:35.400 like be like thanks everyone, be nice and happy. That's 1:26:35.479 --> 1:26:37.559 the sort of example of this sort of dichotomy of 1:26:37.600 --> 1:26:39.840 like you're on top of the world, but actually there's 1:26:39.880 --> 1:26:41.960 still a bully out there that's going to, you know, 1:26:42.640 --> 1:26:45.720 trip you up, literally trip you up as you're as 1:26:45.720 --> 1:26:50.840 you're in your thing. The other thing was another time 1:26:51.040 --> 1:26:54.120 when we went up there, I made a speech about 1:26:54.479 --> 1:26:57.240 I was like holding the award talking about if you're 1:26:58.080 --> 1:27:01.840 sitting in your room right now writing trying to write songs, 1:27:02.280 --> 1:27:06.160 this is dedicated to you, and I'm like, don't I 1:27:06.160 --> 1:27:09.160 said something like, don't give up. If you really really 1:27:11.080 --> 1:27:13.400 want to write and do it, just keep pushing and 1:27:13.439 --> 1:27:17.840 keep pushing. And I said something along those lines. And 1:27:17.880 --> 1:27:22.520 I met someone who's now one of the biggest songwriters 1:27:22.520 --> 1:27:26.479 in the world, like a total gun for hire, and 1:27:27.120 --> 1:27:30.880 she had been on her last legs and she was 1:27:32.000 --> 1:27:39.000 going to give up her thing, songwriting, and she saw 1:27:39.320 --> 1:27:42.559 us get the awards and it gave her a little 1:27:42.560 --> 1:27:46.640 bit of hope to keep going and she did, and 1:27:48.000 --> 1:27:50.840 she she's doing really well for herself. She's doing the 1:27:50.920 --> 1:27:51.240 other me. 1:27:53.560 --> 1:27:56.439 Okay, but going to the point where that was a peak. 1:27:57.479 --> 1:28:02.240 Are you constantly trying to eve a peak? Or is 1:28:02.280 --> 1:28:05.240 that just another bump in the road. 1:28:10.080 --> 1:28:13.400 I don't know. Again, you go back to the thing 1:28:13.439 --> 1:28:20.719 where you're you're you're carrying the you're carrying the word, 1:28:21.040 --> 1:28:24.840 You're carrying the cure. And so I want you want 1:28:24.880 --> 1:28:27.200 to you want to get to as you want to 1:28:27.240 --> 1:28:29.360 get the cure to as many people as possible. So 1:28:29.400 --> 1:28:31.639 you want to you want that song to get out there. 1:28:33.840 --> 1:28:37.000 So and with that, if it does get out there, 1:28:37.520 --> 1:28:40.920 with that comes a lot of like cruise stuff, but 1:28:40.960 --> 1:28:44.240 also kind of like for someone for an introvert, it's 1:28:44.280 --> 1:28:50.040 not it's not it's not nice when you get famous. 1:28:50.080 --> 1:28:56.880 So with that comes uncomfortable stuff. Uncomfortable stuff. Uh yeah, 1:28:56.920 --> 1:28:59.559 So I'm constantly pushing, yeah, pushing. 1:29:00.320 --> 1:29:03.840 Okay, you say you're an introvert, tell me about that 1:29:04.000 --> 1:29:05.360 in your everyday life. 1:29:07.800 --> 1:29:13.519 I am. I'm very shy. I'm not, it's just weird. 1:29:13.760 --> 1:29:15.800 I'm shy, but I'm not afraid to get up on 1:29:15.920 --> 1:29:19.680 the stage. I've like when I'm big, A lot of 1:29:19.680 --> 1:29:23.679 people are like parties or social gatherings. I'm not really 1:29:24.080 --> 1:29:27.960 I get really anxious, like you know, like too many people, 1:29:28.600 --> 1:29:31.240 there's I don't know why. I just always got a 1:29:31.240 --> 1:29:35.360 bit like I mean, some nights maybe not, but other 1:29:35.479 --> 1:29:39.800 nights I get a bit. I spend a lot of 1:29:39.840 --> 1:29:44.320 time on my own. I'm an only child, and so 1:29:44.360 --> 1:29:47.800 I spend a lot of time by myself, and so 1:29:47.960 --> 1:29:52.160 writing songs is quite conducive. There's two things go hand 1:29:52.160 --> 1:29:55.679 in hand. So again yeah, but again on the other 1:29:55.720 --> 1:29:59.280 side of that, I'm not I've never been faced by 1:30:00.040 --> 1:30:03.800 getting on a stage and talking songes inder what I'm 1:30:03.840 --> 1:30:04.280 going to say. 1:30:05.160 --> 1:30:09.599 Okay, you're living in la generally speaking, what are you doing? 1:30:10.120 --> 1:30:13.559 You're watching streaming television, you're reading a book, you go 1:30:13.560 --> 1:30:16.360 into the studio, you're calling up friends. What is your 1:30:16.439 --> 1:30:17.559 everyday life? Like? 1:30:18.600 --> 1:30:21.280 Well, in everyday life has sort of been upended recently 1:30:21.280 --> 1:30:24.599 because my son has graduated now from high school and 1:30:24.640 --> 1:30:26.519 he's going to art school next year, and he's having 1:30:26.560 --> 1:30:32.200 a year of traveling in gallivanting this year, and I'm touring. 1:30:33.760 --> 1:30:37.640 But when he graduated May last year, and then we 1:30:37.800 --> 1:30:40.280 went on touring at the end he graduated end of 1:30:40.360 --> 1:30:44.280 me we went on tour June July or September. I 1:30:44.320 --> 1:30:48.320 came back in September and I hadn't processed the whole 1:30:49.120 --> 1:30:52.639 life changing. So and I'm still processing that right now 1:30:53.360 --> 1:30:57.439 because for seventeen years you are your number one job 1:30:57.600 --> 1:31:03.360 is being the father of Clay and that is over 1:31:03.439 --> 1:31:07.640 everything else. That's my whole day was that and songwriting 1:31:07.720 --> 1:31:10.880 and all the other stuff revolved around that. But now 1:31:10.920 --> 1:31:17.080 he's off, So I'm now in this new quite nice, like, 1:31:17.160 --> 1:31:21.479 oh I've got some got some room. So I do 1:31:21.560 --> 1:31:25.920 a lot of work for the band. I mean making 1:31:26.640 --> 1:31:32.240 videos and making artwork and writing songs and and that 1:31:32.360 --> 1:31:36.280 that generally takes up a lot of time. As you'll know. 1:31:37.280 --> 1:31:43.519 You can you can sit for the last night, I 1:31:43.640 --> 1:31:48.280 was listening to a show we recorded it in Glasgow 1:31:49.040 --> 1:31:51.200 last December. It was our last show of the year, 1:31:51.840 --> 1:31:55.160 and I got all of the files and then just 1:31:55.200 --> 1:31:58.720 started fiddling around with it on pro tools in like 1:31:58.800 --> 1:32:03.200 three hours, just and so time, and you know, it's 1:32:03.800 --> 1:32:04.880 that's what I do with my time. 1:32:04.960 --> 1:32:10.680 I just what you in Potter, Okay, But to what 1:32:10.800 --> 1:32:13.880 degree are you social? You live in a big city 1:32:13.920 --> 1:32:15.840 and to what degree you know, Robbie. 1:32:15.560 --> 1:32:17.439 Williams, I'm not social at all. 1:32:17.360 --> 1:32:19.879 Okay, So you're not social at all. So generally speaking, 1:32:19.960 --> 1:32:22.080 you're a homebody. You're doing your thing. 1:32:22.880 --> 1:32:25.360 Yeah, I've never had a dinner party in my entire life. 1:32:26.080 --> 1:32:27.000 I've never thrown one. 1:32:28.560 --> 1:32:29.599 How about going to one. 1:32:30.760 --> 1:32:33.880 I've gone a couple, but I'll leave early. It just 1:32:34.040 --> 1:32:35.280 stresses me out too much. 1:32:37.000 --> 1:32:39.639 I'm just like, not, Well, you talked about this friend 1:32:39.680 --> 1:32:42.360 who moved to Alabama, you talked about the friend who 1:32:42.439 --> 1:32:45.479 passed away. Do you have a regular friend network that 1:32:45.520 --> 1:32:46.559 you're in contact with? 1:32:48.360 --> 1:32:52.040 Yeah, I do, dude, but it's not very big, and 1:32:52.680 --> 1:32:58.519 it's yeah, it's not back again. It's like we're living 1:32:58.520 --> 1:33:03.439 in a time where you need everyone's like everyone's got 1:33:03.479 --> 1:33:08.479 like fifty thousand friends. And I'm like, I tend to 1:33:08.600 --> 1:33:14.040 think about you sort of mirror your first seven years. 1:33:14.680 --> 1:33:17.160 The rest of your life mirrors that. And I grew 1:33:17.200 --> 1:33:19.960 up with my mum, just me and her. That was it, 1:33:20.479 --> 1:33:22.960 and my granddad, Ma Nana would pop in and I 1:33:22.960 --> 1:33:26.160 would pop in there. And that was very small. I 1:33:26.200 --> 1:33:29.479 didn't have any brothers and sisters. I didn't. I only 1:33:29.479 --> 1:33:33.120 have one cousin and I'd see them every few persis. 1:33:33.160 --> 1:33:38.200 So my life now very much reflects that time. I 1:33:38.200 --> 1:33:42.360 have my my other half sparer, and we spent a 1:33:42.360 --> 1:33:45.640 lot of time together, Like she's half our time with 1:33:45.680 --> 1:33:47.800 our kids, and when she's not doing that, we were 1:33:47.840 --> 1:33:50.760 hanging out. If we can triangulate our times because I'm 1:33:51.080 --> 1:33:54.840 half with my kid and his mom's half with him. 1:33:56.200 --> 1:33:57.479 But yeah, it's very simple. 1:33:59.040 --> 1:34:01.559 So what do go your You a student of the game, 1:34:01.680 --> 1:34:05.519 someone like Elton John follows it really closely. The guys 1:34:05.560 --> 1:34:09.640 at a c DC. Young says, I only listen to 1:34:09.640 --> 1:34:10.439 my own music. 1:34:13.280 --> 1:34:15.639 I'm not. I don't think I'm a student of the game. 1:34:16.680 --> 1:34:18.360 Like I say, I think there's more to the game 1:34:18.400 --> 1:34:25.680 than just music. Like Elton John wrote that met the 1:34:25.680 --> 1:34:28.720 top line melodies and that's that was the sort of 1:34:29.439 --> 1:34:32.160 a lot of emotion comes from that. I think that 1:34:32.320 --> 1:34:38.160 it's the melody. And I'm definitely not. I don't watch 1:34:38.240 --> 1:34:42.120 the I don't watch the wallpaper. I am, I print it. 1:34:43.680 --> 1:34:45.800 I do the other the other thing, and I don't 1:34:45.840 --> 1:34:48.160 listen to myself either. It's the last thing I'm going 1:34:48.200 --> 1:34:51.000 to do. I get out and about and I take 1:34:51.080 --> 1:34:53.520 in information and. 1:34:54.520 --> 1:34:57.360 Well, friend, we've come to the end of the feeling 1:34:57.479 --> 1:35:02.280 we've known. You've been very forthcoming. It's been a great 1:35:02.320 --> 1:35:05.599 pleasure to speak with you, and I'm sure your fans 1:35:05.600 --> 1:35:09.680 are going to really enjoy the Travis performance is coming up. 1:35:10.200 --> 1:35:13.960 Oh thanks, Bob, I am it's been lovely talking to you. 1:35:14.160 --> 1:35:21.400 And despite all all the technical and kerfuffle at the beginning, 1:35:23.240 --> 1:35:25.320 but we managed that. We got there in the end, 1:35:25.640 --> 1:35:29.519 and and hopefully maybe in one hundred years from there 1:35:29.520 --> 1:35:33.160 we'll meet again our AI versions of ourselves and in 1:35:33.240 --> 1:35:37.400 the new stimulation and and we'll well, the next time, 1:35:37.439 --> 1:35:41.160 we probably won't need microphones. We'll just we'll just it'll 1:35:41.200 --> 1:35:41.679 just happen. 1:35:42.880 --> 1:35:44.320 Our avatars will talk. 1:35:44.640 --> 1:35:46.560 Yeah. 1:35:46.920 --> 1:35:50.240 In any event, until next time. This is Bob Left 1:35:50.240 --> 1:35:50.599 Shows