1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Set podcast. 2 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: My guest today is Frand Dealing of Travage brand. We 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: were setting this up. We normally use the software Riverside, 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: which works in Chrome. You refuse to download a Google product, 5 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: tell me about that. 6 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: I'm not a big fan of downloading anything onto my 7 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 2: onto my computer. I don't really. I generally use the 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: fary just because it's it's uh, it's more secure as 9 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: a as a bit of software. There's more, you get 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: more privacy with it. Google, Google will It's like an 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: anal probe. They just want to get right up inside 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: you and they're into all your bits and piece And 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: I'm not I just find them very intrusive. I'm not. 14 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: I'm I'm not keen on on when that. I think 15 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 2: Apple are a little bit more kind of privacy oriented. 16 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: Or maybe that's just what I be led to believe. 17 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 1: But anyway, so have you had a problem downloading stuff 18 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: on your computer. 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: When today? 20 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,639 Speaker 1: No, I'm talking about in general, since you're anxious about 21 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: downloading stuff. 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: No. No, I I just don't like Google. I don't 23 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 2: like the company. I'm not a big fan of Google. 24 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 2: I'm not I think I'm not that my key on it, 25 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,559 Speaker 2: but I'm anyway, it's just, you know. 26 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: Well, the question is, if you have a problem with Google, 27 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: what other companies and what other products don't you use? 28 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: I'm I don't. I don't really. I don't use Instagram, 29 00:01:52,960 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: I don't use Facebook, I don't use what's that? Don't use? 30 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 2: I actually do use Twitter, but that's now gone all 31 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: a bit wobbly. I don't really, I'm not. I think 32 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: their business models are interesting, you know, Facebook and or 33 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 2: sorry Alphabet. I think their business models are how could 34 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: you put it, very inventive. You know, you think you've 35 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 2: got four hundred thousand followers or five hundred thousand followers, 36 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: but in order to access those followers, you have to 37 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 2: pay the company to open up the gate to allow 38 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: you to reach all your lip you know, all your followers. 39 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: So it's like an illusion. You know, you've got forty 40 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 2: thousand or one hundred thousand, or a million or twenty 41 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: five million followers, but in order to reach them you 42 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: have to pay, you know. So it's it's not really 43 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: it's all a bit of a like smoking mirrors thing. 44 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 2: And again it's this feeling of being anally probed by 45 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 2: by someone in Silicon Valley, the Silicon Valley finger. 46 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: So did you used to use these programs and stop 47 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: where you never used. 48 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: Them at the beginning? And I never liked Facebook really 49 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: very much. I did I have a Facebook account? I 50 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: think it did, and I just kind of went away 51 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,119 Speaker 2: from it. So something kind of like, I don't know, 52 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 2: you know, some some people just give you a vibe, 53 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: and some apps just give you a vibe and you're 54 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: like nah nah. And so Facebook was like that. And 55 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: then I got a little bit kind of like weary 56 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 2: because then they Facebook bought Instagram and they bought WhatsApp, 57 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: and it's all about I guess having the it's I 58 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: don't know. And of course there's TikTok. We were talking 59 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: about TikTok today being banned in the US or possibly 60 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: as a Supreme Court over the the their decision. But 61 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: that's another I don't know, you know, that's a that's 62 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: a whole other that's like crack cocaine. That's like social 63 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: media on crack. 64 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're not on TikTok. 65 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 2: Fuck that well, I'm my band is on TikTok, but 66 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: and personally not on TikTok. I mean that I feel 67 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: it's again it's like I feel social media is do 68 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 2: you know, like have you ever I mean, have you 69 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 2: read like much German history? No, Like if you go 70 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: back to like when what's his name Martin Luther delivered 71 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: the Bible to the people, like you know, like he 72 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: printed it. That it was the printing press was invented. 73 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: And then suddenly you had this mass dissemination of information. 74 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: And when the normal people of Germany, you know, all 75 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: of the sort of normal people of Germany were able 76 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: to have the Bible for the first time, they suddenly 77 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: had the word do you know, they had the information 78 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 2: at their fingertips. Interestingly, the modern German language as you 79 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 2: know it today comes from that Bible. It was. It 80 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: was written in a sort of like a sort of 81 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 2: street the way there was there was a few different 82 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: types of German when before that, and Martin Luther went 83 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: around all of these different places. And when he wrote 84 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 2: the Bible or the Old Testament, I think, yeah, he 85 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 2: he wrote it in a sort of almost like street talk, 86 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: like a sort of street version of German. And that 87 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 2: that took the high German and the low German and 88 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 2: put them together to get the German that we sort 89 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: of know today. And so when all these people began 90 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 2: to read this book, the Bible, they had it for 91 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: like four hundred years after that it was the only 92 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: printed book available to people for for a long time. 93 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 2: But when they first got it, there was a thirty 94 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: year war like because people were like, you know, the 95 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 2: Church didn't control the world of God anymore. The people did. 96 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 2: So we're in this moment right now where I think 97 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: we're having another mass dissemination of information and it's kind 98 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 2: of it causes chaos. And I believe that the guys 99 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: in Silicon Valley they're very I'm not sure if it's 100 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 2: left or right brained, but they're not artistically minded. They 101 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 2: have no they're all very math you know, they're all 102 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: very sort of zeros and ones, and they think in 103 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 2: a certain way. They don't they never, i'm sure, ever 104 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 2: considered the consequences of what the impact of social media 105 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 2: would have on the planet. So I'm kind of I'm 106 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: getting to a point and I think a lot of 107 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 2: people are where you're like, I just want to live 108 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 2: in a cave. Would just give me a cave and 109 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: just don't like I want to throw my computer out 110 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: the window. I definitely did after trying to get onto 111 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: this to this today. 112 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: Okay, outside the US, the world runs on WhatsApp, So 113 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: you're on tour outside of the US. How do you communicate? 114 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: I use them messages on iPhone and that works for you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Oh. 115 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, just you're very well educated on these issues. 116 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: What do you think about Elon Musk and his power 117 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: in the American government? 118 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: Well, that's that's a whole different question. That's about that 119 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: talks about power. I don't know if you've read any 120 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: of Robert Carrow's writing, and you know, the power broker, 121 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: I know who we're talking about. 122 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: I have not read these books. 123 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: Well he I think he's on the fourth volume of 124 00:07:55,720 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: his of his biography of My Brain's Melting, Thank you, 125 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: Thank you, Lindon Johnson, and he's he talks in that. 126 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: I've watched a few interviews with Carol and he speaks 127 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: about power and he's sort of really his interest is 128 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: in that. And he said something really interesting in a 129 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: New York Times interview your podcast when he was asked 130 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: about the nature of power, and one of the things 131 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 2: he said that piqued my interest was that talks about 132 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 2: Lyndon Johnson for I think seventeen years, you know, being 133 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 2: very friendly and very he knew exactly who to talk 134 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: to to pull in power, to gather power, and never 135 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 2: once showed his hand about what he would do once 136 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: he had that power. So for all of us people 137 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: that don't have any power, I mean, it's kind of 138 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: like none of us do in this world today. You're 139 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 2: either something like Elon Musk he's got a lot of 140 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: money but and and influence. But our political leaders have 141 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 2: a lot of power. That's where the power really lies 142 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: in the country. But billionaires and political leaders. And so 143 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 2: I'm not sure what he's up to because a minute ago, 144 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: you know, he was like I was like, for instance, 145 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: I was saying, I'm like I was turning a corner 146 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: for my sins. I bought a Tesla a few years 147 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: ago because my kid was like, we got to get Tesla, 148 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: and I'm like, I'm happy with my nineteen eighty five. 149 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: We say these three hundred d I'm just let's not 150 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: get a Tesla. So I went, fuck it, I'll get 151 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: a Tesla. And we've got this this machine that drives 152 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 2: at this computer that drives now, and I was turning 153 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: into my street in Los Angeles, in Venice in it 154 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 2: and this guy I was beside me in the car, 155 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: beside me, he rolled down his window and my window 156 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 2: was down, my elbows on the window and this is 157 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 2: when was this a year and a half ago? And 158 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 2: he shouted, I mean we were maybe one foot apart 159 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: from each other, took a cigarette out of his mouth 160 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 2: and screened fuck Elon at me. And I was like, 161 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 2: I was like, what you kidding? Because it was it 162 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: was round about the time when Elon Musk was beginning 163 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 2: to go like change his political leanings. He's moved his 164 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 2: company to Texas. And I was like, I knew that 165 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 2: his the worm was turning for him, but this the 166 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: memo hadn't reached this guy yet that Elon was going 167 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: into his car. And and but it's interesting to me 168 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 2: how these people operate, Like for normal people like you 169 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 2: and I and most people that roam the lands, we 170 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 2: we're just normal people. And I have no idea what 171 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: someone like that is agenda is. I can only imagine 172 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: that he wants to get to Mars, so he's going 173 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 2: to probably do everything possible to make that as easy, 174 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: to make that as much the path of leisure resistance 175 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: as possible. So I don't think he's I think he's 176 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: definitely on the spectrum. So his his very is very 177 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: sort of know what to behavior, what would seem like 178 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: anti social behavior, like his op likes the way he talks, 179 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: the way he acts in a kind of different way. 180 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: I think that's definitely spectrumy. I mean, we're all on 181 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 2: the the my grainbow in some way, in some more 182 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 2: than others. But I think possibly with Elon Musk, he's 183 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: definitely he wants to go to Mars. He wants to 184 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: save the world, and he doesn't really give a damn 185 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 2: about like what people think. It seems. But I'm from 186 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 2: the outside where you and I are sitting, does it matter? 187 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 2: Do we have any power to change any of that? 188 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 2: Doesn't really seem so we're quite powerless. And I realized 189 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: that a long time ago. I realized that when when 190 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 2: we had the Iraq War with George W. Bush and 191 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: Tony Blair's wonderful war in Iraq that everyone marched against 192 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 2: because we all smelled something funny, fishy, and everyone said, 193 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 2: don't do it, and they did it anyway. That's when 194 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: I began to realize, Oh, God, this this idea of 195 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 2: democracy and this idea of the people have the power 196 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: is actually it's kind of not really, not really true. 197 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna change the focus for a minute. Originally, 198 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: you're from Scotland. Yes, Scotland has talked off and on 199 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: about seceding from the UK. In addition, UK you've had Brexit. 200 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: What are your views on those things? 201 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: I remember, I remember where I was when breakfast we 202 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: were in Amsterdam. I was sitting in a hotel lobby 203 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 2: when I when I saw the headlines and I was like, 204 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 2: this is not good. It's not good. For first of all, 205 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 2: it's it was you know, you watch the the the 206 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 2: way that what's the word? The campaign was ruled out 207 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 2: and it was very very persuasive to you if you 208 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 2: didn't maybe read enough or or look at the news enough, 209 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: or you didn't get your news from different sources. And 210 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: this was the birth of Cambridge Analytica as well. This 211 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: was their their little guinea pig almost Brexit was to 212 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 2: see if they could target people on Facebook, you know, 213 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: and get there exactly know exactly who would we who's 214 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 2: about to tip to the right or the left, and 215 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: they can send them exactly a tailored commercial to their 216 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 2: Facebook that will tip them in favor of Brexit. And 217 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: they did and they won, and I was like, oh 218 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 2: my god, this is going to be a disaster. And 219 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: it's been a disaster. Wow. We can't like even I mean, 220 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: it's it's gone into every walk of life. I think 221 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: it's going into I mean, speaking personally, the live business 222 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: where you could get in a tour bus and just 223 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: tour Europe and go around Europe as a band. Yeah, 224 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of red tape now, I mean 225 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 2: a lot. And we talk about our fishing industry, we 226 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: talk about like the role of and also the breakup 227 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: of Europe. You're seeing it fragmenting, you're seeing Russia NATO again. 228 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: All of these things are way above my head and 229 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 2: I'm sure your head and everyone's head, because it's these 230 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 2: are the this is you go back to this idea 231 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 2: of power and that's where it lies and lies. And 232 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: I mean I had little tiny brushes with it here 233 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 2: and there down the line when I'm I've been to 234 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 2: Brussels and I've gone in to represent some of the 235 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: music business. You know, when we've been talking about Brexit 236 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: and we've been talking about like trying to sort of 237 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: make it easier for bands to make some money from recording. 238 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 2: So I've been there, but you get the feeling that 239 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 2: there's so much like you're talking a different language anyway, 240 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: bricks at Brexit was a really big fumble over there, 241 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: but we're living again where these this is like, you know, me, 242 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: you live in interesting times. We're living in such interesting times, 243 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 2: you know. 244 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: Okay, just because a lot of people are Americans who 245 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: are really not familiar with world politics, explain why Scotland 246 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: wanted to s seed and what the status of that 247 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: is today? 248 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: No idea what the status is today. It's it's Scotland 249 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 2: wanted independence. I can't honestly because I moved away like 250 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 2: twenty twenty odd years ago. So as a Scottish person 251 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: moving away, I don't want to be one of these 252 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: against Scottish people who are like blah blah blah when 253 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 2: I don't live there. You know, I live in the 254 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 2: United States and I'm I'm kind of I feel like 255 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: I'm in I'm neither in. I'm in neither country, but 256 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 2: I'm on a base level. The Scottish National Party ran 257 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: a very very good campaign to have Scotland become independent, 258 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 2: and at the time I wasn't sure because I wasn't 259 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 2: living there. You've got to be there, you've got to 260 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 2: be on you've got to have feet on the ground 261 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 2: and be in the bars and be in the street 262 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 2: and be in the supermarket and be talking because we 263 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 2: like to talk in Glasgow. And so a lot of 264 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 2: my friends were pro it. Some of my friends were 265 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: against it. Personally, I always feel like putting walls up 266 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 2: and dividing things is not great. But I think the 267 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 2: reasons for independence in Scotland stem from just long history 268 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 2: of England or sorry no England London and just kind 269 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 2: of fucking us are. Like you rewind back to the 270 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: nineteen late nineteen eighties nineties. We have a thing called 271 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 2: the poll tax and this was like a type of 272 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 2: tax that British government tried out in Scotland. First, you know, 273 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 2: where do all the where do all the nuclear submarines 274 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: say they live in Scotland. You know they don't live 275 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 2: in England. They keep all the nuclear arsenal of Britain 276 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 2: next to us. I mean, it's it's kind of like funny, 277 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 2: you know. So this is all of these reasons, like 278 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 2: they the nuclear thing, to the economic thing, to just 279 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: this historic thing of being kind of humped by London. 280 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 2: I think a lot of Scottish people, half of Scotland 281 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 2: almost wanted to secede, as you say, and it didn't happen. 282 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 2: They failed, And but now that then then Brexit happened 283 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: and now I don't know where anyone stands because the SNP, 284 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 2: the Scottish National Party, is in disarray. They've lost Alex Salmon, 285 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 2: the leader at the time of that. He's dead. He 286 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 2: died last year. Nicolas Sturgeon, who used to run the SNP, 287 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 2: she resigned. She's in a sus a weird scandal herself. 288 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 2: I don't know if that's been resolved. So it's Scottish 289 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 2: politics is in slight disarray. 290 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: So how did you decide to leave Scotland in the UK? 291 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: It's a great question. Well, I Travis. So Travis got 292 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: together in nineteen ninety one. That's when we started the band. 293 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 2: I was starting our school and I started the band 294 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: at the same time. And we chugged along for six years, 295 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: our five years or whatever, and it became and I 296 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 2: got a little bit better and a little bit better 297 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: at writing songwriting, and then it became clear to me 298 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 2: anyway that we needed to change the backdrop. We needed 299 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 2: to bring the the mountain was that they say the 300 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 2: mountain would come to Mohammad, take my Hammed to the mountain. Right. 301 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 2: I had to do that. We had to go down 302 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: to London to seek our fame and fortune Dick Whittington style, 303 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: and we arrived there in nine team nine to six 304 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 2: June the first or April the first, Oh no, yeah, 305 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 2: June the first, and we that's where we stayed for 306 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 2: twelve years. We went down for six months to try 307 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 2: and get a record deal. We were all on the 308 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 2: doll meaning one how met unemployment benefit right, which we 309 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 2: called the John Major mute John Major, who is the 310 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 2: UK Prime Minister. We called the unemployment benefit the John 311 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 2: Major Music Scholarship Scheme. And we we got lucky. We 312 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: got a deal very quickly. The day before my twenty 313 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 2: third birthday July twenty second, nineteen ninety six, this guy 314 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 2: came up to me in a bar and said, I 315 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 2: want to give your band a deal like and I 316 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 2: was like what, because we'd only just got there and 317 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: he'd managed to get a tape from someone and we 318 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: sang to this to this guy a few months later, 319 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: but that's another story. But yeah, that's why we went 320 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: down there. We we we couldn't get arrested in Scotland. 321 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 2: I think people come up there and they they they 322 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 2: check people out, they check bands out, and I think 323 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 2: we just had to go down And it was a 324 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 2: really interesting time in London. It was britt pop was booming, 325 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: the the art scene was amazing, and labor was just 326 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 2: about to get into power. Tony Blair was just about 327 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 2: to so everything was was was about to flip to 328 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 2: to something new. And we went down and we were 329 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 2: right in the midst of all this when when we arrived, 330 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 2: and so really and it was a really great time. 331 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 2: It was it was you have Oasis and pub britt 332 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: pop and all that stuff going on, and we weren't 333 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 2: really part of that. But that's why we need to. 334 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 1: Live, okay. And how did you leave London? 335 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 2: Ah? We left London. So we moved in ninety six 336 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,719 Speaker 2: and in two thousand and six I had my kids, 337 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 2: my boy Clay, and and while we while my wife 338 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 2: was pregnant with Clay, someone through a brick through our 339 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 2: window and there was a series of events, like three 340 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,959 Speaker 2: things happened we had a brick thrown through our window. 341 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 2: Someone stole like I'd lest stupidly left my laptop sitting 342 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 2: on a sort of with it opened, like glowing out 343 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 2: of the window. So I got my laptop stolen. They 344 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 2: smashed the window and I felt like, whoa, that's that's 345 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 2: that's a bit kind of aggressive. And then two people, 346 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 2: two of our neighbors, were mugged on our street, one 347 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 2: at knife point and then another one was at knife 348 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: point taking on a bus, driven away out into the 349 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 2: middle of nowhere and robbed. Neither of them were hurt, 350 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 2: but I was like, wow, that's it felt like it 351 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 2: didn't feel safe anymore. And we lived in a very 352 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 2: leafy suburb of London called crouch End where Nick Hornby, 353 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 2: the writer based High Fidelity, was based there. That's the 354 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 2: neighborhood from that book. So that's that. When we got there, 355 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 2: it was really nice and then it started to cool 356 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 2: a bit nasty, so I was like, let's just go, 357 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 2: and so we moved to Berlin. Meet my wife and 358 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 2: like two eighteen month old son. We moved to Berlin 359 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 2: and Berlin was I mean, for such a huge city 360 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 2: in Berlin's massive, it's quite provincial when we moved there. 361 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: You know, you've get kids here are like nine, ten 362 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 2: eleven walking hand in hand down the street. It's lovely. 363 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 2: And so we went there. We stayed there for ten 364 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 2: years and I had a lovely time, and then came 365 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 2: to came to Los Angeles. 366 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: Okay, There're been a lot of legendary records made in Berlin. 367 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: We had David Bowie in the seventies, We ultimately had 368 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: you two. Could those records have been made anywhere or 369 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: is there a vibe that affects your creativity in Berlin? 370 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 2: Well? Interestingly, I the both of those bands and Depeche 371 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 2: Mode made their seminal albums are arguably some of their 372 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 2: most seminal work in one studio called hansa Hands of 373 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 2: Tone Studio, and I had I had. My room was 374 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: in that complex. My room was the room where Depeche 375 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 2: Mode even when we were recording. When I was demoing, 376 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 2: I was a found video of Depeche Mode in my 377 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 2: room playing like showing a journalist how to sample the 378 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: sound of dropping like a scruise on the ground and 379 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 2: showing them that you could put it into keep order 380 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 2: and you can so could the question, Yeah, Berlin I 381 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: think now this is both of those bands. Actually, you 382 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 2: two came after the wall fell, so Bert Bowie did 383 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 2: a lot of great work with you know, in hans 384 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 2: A before the Way, before the wall fell. You two 385 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 2: came in after the wall fell. There is a vibe 386 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 2: there and I think, but the further you got away, 387 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 2: the further you got away from the vibe at the 388 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 2: further you got away from the wall falling in nineteen 389 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 2: eighty nine, that the more it Berlin has become a 390 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 2: little bit just smoother, you know, a little bit more 391 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 2: and your margindized, if you know what I mean. You know, 392 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 2: the high store streets are kind of like the high 393 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 2: store streets. They got a Uni Globe, they've got a Nike, 394 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 2: They've got you know, all these things. So it's but 395 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 2: there's definitely, you know, Berlin is a very interesting town. 396 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: You know. 397 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 2: If you want provincial, you got it in Spade Fields. 398 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 2: If you want Second World War horror like tours, you 399 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 2: got it. If you want to go and dance all 400 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 2: night in a nightclub, you got it. And Berlin's kind 401 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 2: of got it all. And there's a very liberal I 402 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 2: would say liberal. It's an interesting flavor because it's not 403 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 2: quite liberal. It's it's when people can put up with 404 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 2: other people. I don't know the words my Ward's family, 405 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 2: when people can like if you're gay, black, white, and 406 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 2: they don't care. It's just like you're just a human, 407 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 2: let's just go on with it. I think like in 408 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 2: all the years I lived in Berlin, and never once 409 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 2: I never once heard any and everyone saw someone getting 410 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: beaten up, and never once saw broken glass, and never 411 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 2: once saw anyone raised their voices to anyone. It's a 412 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 2: very and I think that has a lot to do 413 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 2: with their history, where there's almost zero tolerance over there 414 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 2: of any aggression of any kind. So you've got like 415 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 2: you could you can be arrested for calling someone a cunt, 416 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 2: which is if you're in Glasgow. I mean it's like 417 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 2: Glasgow's like you know, Iceland has got like a thousand 418 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: ways to say snows. In Glasgow, there's like a thousand 419 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 2: meanings of the word cunt. We use it in a 420 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 2: very different way than everyone else. So if you call 421 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 2: someone a seaward in Glasgow, sorry, in Berlin, you can 422 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 2: get arrested because they don't put up with any of it. 423 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 2: And I think that's got a lot to do with 424 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 2: their like the history people just they don't have any 425 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 2: time for any any like anger or aggression. But weirdly, 426 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 2: as I've been living in Los Angeles the last eight 427 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 2: years and looking over to Berlin and still talking to 428 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: friends over there, looking at the news every day, we're 429 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: beginning the pendulum is swinging to the to the other 430 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 2: side again. And it seems to be very like like 431 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 2: I say, it's a pendulum, the pendulum of politics or 432 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 2: the pendulum of pendulum of the populace with one way 433 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 2: and another. I think Angelo mercle was possibly one of 434 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: the most amazing and politicians in history. Like she managed 435 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 2: to hold on to power, keep everyone happy, most closely 436 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 2: stand on the world stage. And and she had she 437 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 2: had a very and and she had a very sort 438 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 2: of right on background. But I know it's and then 439 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 2: she's left, and pendulum is the petulum is swinging very 440 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 2: much in the opposite direction. Now, I guess ship like 441 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 2: that happens. 442 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: So how did you end up leaving Berlin and getting 443 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: to Los Angeles again? 444 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 2: It was never and it wasn't really a plan as such. 445 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 2: I we had a we had a We're fortunate enough 446 00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 2: to have an apartment in New York and we got 447 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 2: that in two thousand and three and we sold it 448 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 2: in two thousand and fifteen or so, and I was like, 449 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 2: we we knew we had friends in Los Angeles, and 450 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 2: I was like, let's just get a place there, like 451 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 2: swap a brick for a brick. So we did that 452 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 2: and we went over to LA and when we were 453 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 2: over someone was like, oh, they're having open days for schools. 454 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 2: And Clay had been not really enjoying bilingual school, which 455 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 2: is like in Germany. In Berlin, he went to German 456 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 2: speaking an English speaking school together and they teach you 457 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 2: mathematics in German and they teach you history and English 458 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 2: and it's like it all kind of and he never 459 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 2: really liked it. So we saw a school over here 460 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 2: and then we thought, fuck it, let's just go. So 461 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 2: we all of our stuff in a big truck and 462 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 2: came to LA. And we've been here and I'm gett. 463 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 2: I think it's like it seems to be a pattern here, 464 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 2: like a ten or around about ten years. Every ten 465 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 2: years I moved to another place, and it's coming up 466 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 2: to that now. 467 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: So if we were talking, we are talking, would you 468 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: be saying, yeah, I'm ready to move on from La. 469 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,719 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, I've never you know, on like 470 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 2: La and Berlin are apparently his sister sister cities, and 471 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 2: there's there there couldn't be more different, Like I was saying, 472 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 2: in all my time in ten years in Berlin, I 473 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 2: didn't hear anyone raise their voice to anyone. I didn't 474 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 2: see any trouble. It's a very peaceful place. Like yeah 475 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: it was. It was super peaceful on the country. Come 476 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 2: into Los Angeles. It's like you're I was saying to 477 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 2: someone the other day, LA is like a pressure point 478 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 2: on like if you're getting a massage and someone you know, 479 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 2: presses that a little bit in your back where you're 480 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 2: like fucking know here where all the where, everything, all 481 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 2: the nerves come into one point. That's l A is 482 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 2: one of those places. And uh, it's it's it's downs 483 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 2: is it. Yeah, it's it's upstream from from other places. 484 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 2: If it happens here in La, then you can be 485 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 2: guaranteed it's probably going to happen somewhere else down the line. Culturally, 486 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 2: you know, they make Hollywood here and and but I 487 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 2: and all of the cities I've ever lived in, I mean, 488 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 2: Ela gets a really Eli gets. I don't know why 489 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 2: people think Ella is kind of like look and dizzy 490 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: or you know, you get New Yorkers early la and 491 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 2: can't San Franciscan say like la as if it's kind 492 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 2: of like nah, I've never lived in a more badass, 493 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 2: hard ass city than this. I mean this city at 494 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 2: the moment anyway. And maybe it's just the time, but 495 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 2: the it's like, you've got that this homeless crisis. You 496 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 2: got seventy thousand homeless people, which is you know, it's 497 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 2: like what in it? How can I how can people 498 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 2: let that happen in the richest country in the world. 499 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 2: You've got insane crime. I saw I've seen four people 500 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 2: dying in front of me on the street in Los Angeles. Well, 501 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 2: I've lived here. I've gotten into four different altercations, not 502 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 2: none of which had anything to do with be just 503 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 2: people like I got someone try to carjackbe like pull 504 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 2: me out of the window of my car. Someone When 505 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 2: we were away from our house for a little while 506 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,439 Speaker 2: we came back, I'm talking like a week. We came 507 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 2: back to our house. There was a dudle in our house, 508 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 2: tooled up like he had but he was he'd just 509 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 2: taken drugs, so he was a little bit like, you know, 510 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 2: out of his head a little bit, and he was 511 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 2: a big guy and I had to like gingerly walk 512 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 2: him out of the house, you know. And I got 513 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 2: into this fight where a guy who smashed his hands 514 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 2: down on my car and ordered me to get out 515 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 2: of the car, which, being from Glasgow, I did. He 516 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: took his shoes off and it was like going to 517 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 2: like beat me up karate style, and I managed to 518 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 2: talk him off the ledge. We're very diplomatic Scottish people. 519 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 2: We top people off ledges. They should get us in for, 520 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 2: you know, like when people are on when people are 521 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 2: jumping off bridges. And oh yeah, I got bitten by 522 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 2: a dog and almost lost my finger, my finger. I 523 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 2: was a neighbor's dog escaped and I was just driving 524 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 2: down my hill and at at like another neighbor's dog 525 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 2: had been hit by a card a year earlier, and 526 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 2: I've seen I saw the dog and I'd stopped my 527 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 2: car and there was all the other cars on the 528 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 2: on the road and I was like, no on my watch, 529 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 2: And so I chased this sausage dog up my hill 530 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 2: and then picked it up and it just like chewed 531 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 2: my finger off. So it's been and then, yeah, I've 532 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 2: seen people like I've seen things. I feel like Rutger 533 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 2: Hower at the end of Plage Runner. I've seen things 534 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 2: you wouldn't believe. It's living in Los Angeles, and I'm 535 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 2: not to mention you're like, we're truly right in the 536 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 2: heart of global warming. It's like last year there was 537 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 2: massive floods. My house flooded and it was a nightmare. 538 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 2: This year, my friend's houses are gone, they burnt down. 539 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 2: Because it's just like what and we're right on the 540 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 2: San Andreas fault line ready to pop at any second. 541 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 2: Why anyone would come here? You know, you've got to 542 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 2: be crazy to come here, right, but in a weird way, 543 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 2: all of that kind of all of that kind of 544 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 2: makes it interesting. But I am absolutely ready to move 545 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 2: from Los Angeles. I think if you've lived here, if 546 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 2: you were born here and you grew up, it's like 547 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 2: boiling a frog, you'll have no idea that coming in 548 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,919 Speaker 2: from the outside. I mean my album, there's a song 549 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 2: on the album, which is the title track of the album, 550 00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 2: which is a massive event on Los Angeles and it's 551 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,760 Speaker 2: a sort of spoken word. I'm not saying it's a rap, 552 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 2: but it's a spoken word of me just ranting about 553 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 2: the city. And I think the reason if if, if anything. 554 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 2: And again, and then there's the people of Los Angeles 555 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 2: who you see, it's been amazing actually to watch people 556 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 2: going out and helping other people in this time of 557 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,919 Speaker 2: this disastrous time that everyone's certain neighborhoods are going through 558 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 2: the outpouring of of of charity and helping and it's like, 559 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like it. And I think because 560 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, you're not really you don't get a 561 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 2: chance to rehearse being a human being because you're everyone. 562 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:57,959 Speaker 2: Come out of your house, you get in your car, 563 00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 2: go to your work, get out your car, you walk 564 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 2: up the stairs, do your work, come down the stairs, 565 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 2: getting your car, go home, walk across your path, go 566 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 2: into your house. There's that sort of so everyone is 567 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 2: in there these like metal boxes in their pods, listening 568 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 2: to their podcasts. Hopefully they're listening to this one. And 569 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 2: and but there's not this. It's there's no metro system. 570 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 2: You know, like if you were to take what we 571 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 2: were in Paris in September and I was thinking, wow, 572 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 2: if you if you took the Metro out of Paris. 573 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 2: It would be like, how could you possibly have Paris 574 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 2: without the metro? How could you have New York without 575 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 2: the subway and the and the and the bus system. 576 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 2: Or London with its tubes and its public transport, where 577 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 2: no matter if you're rich or poor and everything in between, black, white, 578 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 2: every religion and creed, they all get on it. You 579 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 2: all sit next to each other. You might meet someone 580 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 2: who talks to you. You might you might be and 581 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 2: you might have a revelation, you might have nothing, but 582 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 2: you're all in it together, whereas in La we're all 583 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 2: in our own separate little pods and the We do 584 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 2: have a public transport system here, but that's generally for 585 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,760 Speaker 2: like poor people who can't afford a cup. So I think, 586 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 2: like watching how the city and the people of the 587 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 2: city have reacted to this disaster just now, it's been 588 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 2: really interesting because I think folk are dying to be human, 589 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 2: you know, they're like they just they want that there's 590 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,439 Speaker 2: a there's an absence, there's like her They talk about 591 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 2: the drought and the hills. There's been like a drought 592 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 2: of humanity or something here. You know, there's people aren't 593 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 2: allowed to talk to one another because they're all in there, 594 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 2: they're all in their cars. Anyway I am. I mean, 595 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 2: I could talk all day about it, but I think 596 00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 2: it's time to move on. 597 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: Oh okay, just to stay on this LA point for 598 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,839 Speaker 1: one second. You're talking about New Yorkers in San Francisco, 599 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,439 Speaker 1: people putting down Los Angeles. Yeah, what are the positives 600 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: that you seem to be alluding to? 601 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 2: I think there's there's there's It's like if you concrete 602 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 2: everything over, you know, nature has a habit of just 603 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 2: like popping through you. You see the little bit of 604 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 2: green grass popping through the crack on the pavement, on 605 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 2: the sidewalk, And I think underneath all of this there's 606 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 2: a there's a big heart. Ellie's got a big heart. 607 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 2: But it's too dangerous, you know. I mean, I've got 608 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 2: to say it's a dangerous place. And I'm like, I 609 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,360 Speaker 2: feel like I'm reached. I'm reaching my third strike and 610 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 2: I don't know you are My inner my inner alarm 611 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 2: bell alerts, it's is it red? Now it's like get out, 612 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 2: you know my I mean for five years ago was 613 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 2: like get ready, and now it's like get out. So 614 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 2: I'm not alluding to it. I don't think. I think 615 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 2: you meet in your life. There's loads of people you 616 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,839 Speaker 2: meet along the way, and you learn a little bit 617 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 2: from every single person you meet, and then there's all 618 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 2: like the other people that you don't get to meet. 619 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 2: I think this is a I think I came to 620 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 2: Los Angeles to live at a really, for want of 621 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 2: a better word, interesting time, and it's not being great. 622 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 2: It's been frustrating at times. I am and I'm ready 623 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,760 Speaker 2: to I'm ready to get out. I mean, my friend 624 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 2: left the other day. He's he's moved to Alabama and 625 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:59,720 Speaker 2: of all places, to Birmingham, and I was like, you're leaving, 626 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 2: Like it's like the guy running from the the warehouse 627 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 2: is the warehouse explodes into you know in the movies, 628 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,399 Speaker 2: and he's driving his car and on the background there's 629 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 2: like fire, and you know, it's like Lord of the 630 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 2: Rings in the background. It's it's a it's a it's 631 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 2: a it's an intense place, and I've really kind of 632 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 2: enjoyed and not enjoyed living here. I don't think I've 633 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 2: ever been more stressed out than I've than than to 634 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 2: be in in LA than any other city I've ever 635 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 2: lived in. So I'm quite ready to move on to 636 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,880 Speaker 2: I mean, I think about maybe moving back to New 637 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 2: York because my kid is going to art school there 638 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 2: next next year. Like New York, I mean, when we 639 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 2: moved out of New York, it was like, fuck, man, 640 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 2: this place is that it's just too crazy. But it's 641 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,240 Speaker 2: there's you know, it has it has. There is more 642 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 2: chance to bump into people on the streets in New 643 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 2: York and less so here. 644 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,399 Speaker 1: Okay, how do you keep a band together when you're 645 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 1: living in Berlin and then you're living in la. 646 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 2: We met in various different ways, and we became a 647 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 2: band eventually, And hmmm, what drew is to one another 648 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 2: as friends is the thing that's at the core of 649 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 2: the band, This friendship between the four of us, and 650 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 2: each relationship, my relationship to Kneel and the drummer, to Dougie, 651 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,799 Speaker 2: to Andy the guitarist, and Andy's relationship to me and 652 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:52,839 Speaker 2: the two other guys, and you know, everyone's relationships I've 653 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 2: woven in such a way as it's it's a very 654 00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 2: manageable relationship. You know, some bands get together in the 655 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,720 Speaker 2: last two weeks and you know, the front man falls 656 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 2: out with a guitarist because the guitars wants to be 657 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 2: the singer or I don't know, or the front of 658 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 2: mine wants to be the drummer. I don't know. And 659 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 2: some bands last, you know, like us twenty years as 660 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,120 Speaker 2: a band, thirty four years as friends. And I think 661 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 2: there's a lot that's a lot to do with making 662 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 2: each other laugh. There's a lot of laughter in our relationship. 663 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,719 Speaker 2: It's funny like each year that goes on, when we 664 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 2: do interviews, we we're asked this more and more, like 665 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 2: what keeps you together? Because it's like I feel like sometimes, 666 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 2: like you know, you get these couples that be married 667 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 2: for like fifty sixty years and it's like, oh my god, 668 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 2: And I guess it's like you just we make each 669 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:03,320 Speaker 2: other laugh. We really expect each other space, the personal space. 670 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 2: We also we're friends, but you're in a band together, 671 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:13,399 Speaker 2: your business partners as well, but you're also married. It's 672 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 2: a weird quasi place between all of those three that 673 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 2: trifecta of things and the relationship of our by this 674 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 2: somewhere in the middle of it. And you know, you'd 675 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,880 Speaker 2: take a bullet for them, but you could shoot them sometimes, 676 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like like any marriage that 677 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,799 Speaker 2: seems to work is there's a sort of duality there. 678 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 2: And I mean, I love the guys in my band 679 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 2: and we love each other, and I think that's the 680 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:49,320 Speaker 2: bottom line. 681 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you're all that in the same location, 682 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:53,839 Speaker 1: how does it work? 683 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,239 Speaker 2: All? Right? Well, thankfully we can. We get together and 684 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 2: play shows in the same location and uh, and we 685 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 2: go into the studio in the same location. And when 686 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,880 Speaker 2: we're not on the road or in the studio, we're 687 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 2: in our different places. And and we don't need to 688 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 2: be together all the time, because when you're on the road, 689 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 2: you are together all the time. I think we've spent 690 00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,800 Speaker 2: more time together than we spent with anyone in our lives, 691 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 2: probably maybe even our own children. So yeah, we we 692 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 2: almost like that the bat phone goes and we're like, Okay, 693 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 2: we'll be right there, and we all we all turn 694 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 2: up to the show and and and then you go 695 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 2: on tour, like we're about to go on a tour 696 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 2: in America and we're going to turn up in Raley, 697 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:55,279 Speaker 2: North Carolina on Monday and get on bus and off 698 00:47:55,320 --> 00:48:00,400 Speaker 2: we go, and like we've been to get there for 699 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 2: like a long time. And I think like it just 700 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,399 Speaker 2: I mean I mean, god, we've there's some I mean, 701 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,479 Speaker 2: I don't know I should say this, but there's there's 702 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,680 Speaker 2: some like big shows we've done where we've maybe not 703 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,720 Speaker 2: played for like two years, like we've had a blong 704 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:25,239 Speaker 2: break and h we've gone, fuck it, let's just do 705 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 2: the show and see if we can just do it 706 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 2: without raharsing, just just for the hell of it. And 707 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 2: its fine because it's like fallen off a bike. So 708 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,279 Speaker 2: it is to me all the bands that I love, 709 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,279 Speaker 2: they've always kept there the sanctity of the band. You 710 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,319 Speaker 2: know that the four members have remained the same until 711 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,640 Speaker 2: the band had broken up. So yeah, it's it's it's 712 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,000 Speaker 2: pretty easy to. 713 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're going to go on the road, you're 714 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:56,399 Speaker 1: not going to rehearse at all. 715 00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:00,719 Speaker 2: Oh No, we've we've we've basically come we've basically come 716 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 2: off a UK tour, so we don't wear weird. We're 717 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 2: so rehearsed. We've only had like three weeks off, so 718 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:21,760 Speaker 2: we're we're in peak match fitness right now. Yeah. 719 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: Okay, you talked earlier about being in Brussels talking about 720 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,920 Speaker 1: remuneration for recordings. Can you tell us more about your 721 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:31,839 Speaker 1: viewpoint on that. 722 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:38,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know where I stand on that anymore. 723 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 2: I'm still getting everything's changing so quickly right now, and 724 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:51,440 Speaker 2: it's just they don't know where I stand on it. 725 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,160 Speaker 2: I was talking. I was saying, in. 726 00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 3: A car park, we are driving out of a concrete 727 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,920 Speaker 3: car park the other day and there was a guy 728 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,880 Speaker 3: with his window down playing music, dance music, really. 729 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,279 Speaker 2: That's kind of music. And I had never heard this 730 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 2: song ever. I don't know. It was like, no idea 731 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,880 Speaker 2: what this song was. This guy was. This guy was 732 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,960 Speaker 2: loving this. He was really getting into it, and it 733 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,440 Speaker 2: made me think, like I was. I just had this 734 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,200 Speaker 2: thought to myself that maybe in the next ten years, 735 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:39,239 Speaker 2: we'll see with all of the artificial intelligence and deep 736 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:48,960 Speaker 2: learnings of AI sort of things happening, you'll have so 737 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,560 Speaker 2: you'll have all the music that you like that you 738 00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,840 Speaker 2: listen to you know it. So iTunes will know or 739 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,879 Speaker 2: Spotify will know what your favorite songs are because they 740 00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,640 Speaker 2: push you in songs, they know what you like. You'll 741 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,040 Speaker 2: discover new songs, and so that's what's happening at the moment. 742 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,839 Speaker 2: And when I heard this guy's music that I didn't know, 743 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,640 Speaker 2: and he was like as if it was like he 744 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:18,040 Speaker 2: was listening to I don't know like something. Everyone was like, 745 00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,640 Speaker 2: he just loved this music that I had no idea of. 746 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,359 Speaker 2: It made me think maybe in the next ten years 747 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 2: or even sooner, there'll come a time when those companies Apple, Spotify, 748 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:35,759 Speaker 2: the streamers will have their own way of so you 749 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:41,759 Speaker 2: use a user, well, you'll be able to generate your 750 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:49,760 Speaker 2: own music that is so well done that it's almost 751 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,759 Speaker 2: it might even get to number one of the charts, 752 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,799 Speaker 2: and it will just be based on what you like. 753 00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,160 Speaker 2: It's getting there. I mean, I was thinking the other day, 754 00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,560 Speaker 2: like I was actually talking to chat GPT about it. 755 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,440 Speaker 2: Have you ever talked to chat GPT? No, you should 756 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:13,799 Speaker 2: try it. It's it's it's a it's a it's a 757 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,799 Speaker 2: it's a it's a trip. So you can actually talk 758 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,400 Speaker 2: to it now, and it talked back to you really 759 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 2: like a like when you're talking. And I was saying 760 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:27,200 Speaker 2: to it because I had this thought that we'd we 761 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:33,240 Speaker 2: started this is a quite interesting bookend because we started 762 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:37,640 Speaker 2: talking about Google and my feelings of the finger of 763 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:44,480 Speaker 2: the silicon finger being like being anally anally inserted into 764 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 2: your data. I think that I was thinking, in the future, 765 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:55,680 Speaker 2: wouldn't it be a nice thing. If every person you me, 766 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,200 Speaker 2: every person like these these these companies were able to 767 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:07,319 Speaker 2: mine every email that you've ever written, every phone call 768 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,840 Speaker 2: you've ever made, every like I'm sure they maybe do 769 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,480 Speaker 2: a little bit of it just now because they know 770 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 2: what to push you for adverts and whatnot. But imagine like, 771 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,120 Speaker 2: because when I look at my emails, I have a 772 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,040 Speaker 2: certain tone and I'm sure you do too, right, And 773 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:28,200 Speaker 2: so if they got all of that information on a 774 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,640 Speaker 2: on on a language sort of level, and and and 775 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,000 Speaker 2: crunched it all together, and then they used your actual 776 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:40,279 Speaker 2: voice as well, like they could take now they can 777 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,719 Speaker 2: take my voice. I've done it myself. They've got the 778 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:47,600 Speaker 2: technology even now where you can say a sentence that 779 00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,120 Speaker 2: they give you and then you can write anything and 780 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,920 Speaker 2: it will say in your voice. It's pretty amazing and 781 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,040 Speaker 2: it's very early days yet. But if you could crunch 782 00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 2: all the information from all your emails and canmmunications and 783 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:08,160 Speaker 2: somehow get your personality or close ish to your personality 784 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,760 Speaker 2: out of that, Like how would you answer a question 785 00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,080 Speaker 2: about Brexit, or how would you answer a question Fran 786 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:19,680 Speaker 2: about or Bob about your mum or you know or 787 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:26,480 Speaker 2: your family or whatever imagine, like I've lost a lot 788 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,919 Speaker 2: of people. I just lost my friend, a really really 789 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,719 Speaker 2: good friend of mine, just before Christmas, and we were 790 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,040 Speaker 2: texting to each other a couple of days before it, 791 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:44,719 Speaker 2: and I was looking through the texts and it's like 792 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 2: he's pretty much there, and the textion was his personality's 793 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,640 Speaker 2: definitely there. But imagine you could if your dad died, 794 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,040 Speaker 2: or your mom died, or your brother or sister died, 795 00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,080 Speaker 2: or your best friend died, and you could call them up, 796 00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,120 Speaker 2: you know, you could just like speak to them and 797 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:06,560 Speaker 2: they would speak back and at the close ish to them, 798 00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,880 Speaker 2: and it was based on all their millions and billions 799 00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,080 Speaker 2: of emails that they've written in, all of their phone 800 00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,520 Speaker 2: calls and all of whatever is I think that would 801 00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,239 Speaker 2: be a nice thing to do with everyone's information rather 802 00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:23,160 Speaker 2: than pushing you know by this Alapisia cream threw your hair, 803 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:25,239 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? 804 00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,319 Speaker 1: Well, I mean there are a couple of things there. 805 00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,680 Speaker 1: On some level, we're on the continuum because it used 806 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,160 Speaker 1: to be and I grew up on the East Coast, 807 00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,160 Speaker 1: I moved to the West coast. You kind of lost 808 00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:40,880 Speaker 1: touch with people. Your kid, who's what nineteen or whatever, 809 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,839 Speaker 1: he's never going to lose touch with anybody. Everybody's going 810 00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,960 Speaker 1: to be completely reachable. I mean, you talk about the fires, 811 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,320 Speaker 1: somebody tracked me down for somebody's phone number, who's in 812 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,560 Speaker 1: a hotel. In the old days, if you would change 813 00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,920 Speaker 1: your number all the time, Today people have a number 814 00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,120 Speaker 1: that's their number. They don't want to change it because 815 00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:05,040 Speaker 1: everybody knows it, et cetera. But I think when it 816 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,759 Speaker 1: comes to creativity, there's a human I mean, it's like 817 00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,960 Speaker 1: you were talking, You're talking about you know, this is 818 00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,360 Speaker 1: one of these algorithmic things people tell. You know, I 819 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,960 Speaker 1: got a big bug up my ass because statistically active 820 00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:22,440 Speaker 1: users don't listen to playlists they pick and choose. But 821 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:27,480 Speaker 1: what if I'm listening to Jackson Brown and Joni Mitchell. 822 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,200 Speaker 1: It's never going to predict that I buy the First 823 00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,840 Speaker 1: Wire album one four three. But I bought it and 824 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,439 Speaker 1: I listened to it and I kind of liked it. 825 00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:42,520 Speaker 1: You know, same thing. You know, It's like research. Steve 826 00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:48,439 Speaker 1: Jobs legend a difficult person, but leaving that alone, never 827 00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:52,640 Speaker 1: did any market research. Market reasters tell you where you've been. 828 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,640 Speaker 1: I won't tell you where you're going. It's like people 829 00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,680 Speaker 1: send you AI songs that sound like legendary acts and 830 00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,319 Speaker 1: you go, oh, well that's kind of cool, but you 831 00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,400 Speaker 1: don't continue to listen. And it's like whenever you listen, 832 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,359 Speaker 1: you know, we listen to the old favorites, but what 833 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,400 Speaker 1: we're hungry for is the new and different. So listen. 834 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:19,400 Speaker 1: There will definitely be evolution. But moving on from this point, 835 00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,720 Speaker 1: you're going on the road. Do you have to go 836 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,320 Speaker 1: on the road for the money or you're going on 837 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,720 Speaker 1: the road because you're a band and that's what you do. 838 00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:34,880 Speaker 2: You're asking some very good questions. It's great, great question. 839 00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:44,480 Speaker 2: So it's a it's a balance. We when Travis started, like, 840 00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,680 Speaker 2: first of all, all of the bands that made me 841 00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,880 Speaker 2: once to get into a band, we're American. I just 842 00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,960 Speaker 2: I mean it's being maybe it's a Scottish thing. We 843 00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,160 Speaker 2: look over to America and we just love we all 844 00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:00,760 Speaker 2: loved your accent, you know, I love the American accident 845 00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,040 Speaker 2: and all the movies and the TV shows and it 846 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,640 Speaker 2: was just like couldn't get enough of it, and your 847 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,240 Speaker 2: culture was really it was just this the shining White 848 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,400 Speaker 2: House on the hell kind of it was to us 849 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,400 Speaker 2: and all the ball the music that come out of America. 850 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:18,960 Speaker 2: I mean I've got you sort of take your own 851 00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:23,440 Speaker 2: for granted, the Beatles and all that thing, but Irm 852 00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:28,480 Speaker 2: for instance, was a huge influence on me, not musically, 853 00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,760 Speaker 2: but more like, this is what a band should feel 854 00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:36,240 Speaker 2: like their career should be, not just this rocket to 855 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,240 Speaker 2: the moon and then remain in orbit for it. It's like 856 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:40,919 Speaker 2: it should go up and down, you should go left 857 00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,200 Speaker 2: and right, and the band should stay together. And then 858 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,320 Speaker 2: Bill Barry sort of had his aneurysm and stepped aside, 859 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,000 Speaker 2: and they went on for a little bit longer. But 860 00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:55,600 Speaker 2: when they were a four piece, they were my template 861 00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,640 Speaker 2: as well as the band Robbie Robertson, Leave On Hell, 862 00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,640 Speaker 2: et cetera. They were, if you could sort of Travis 863 00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,200 Speaker 2: Are somewhere in It's like a cocktail of those two bands. 864 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,880 Speaker 2: So when we first came out to America, we toured 865 00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,200 Speaker 2: with Ben Folds five, and we kept coming touring and 866 00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:19,040 Speaker 2: touring and touring, never making a penny. We never ever 867 00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:25,040 Speaker 2: ever have made money in America ever, We've never We've 868 00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,360 Speaker 2: maybe lost money once at the very early days when 869 00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:33,640 Speaker 2: we were starting out, but we generally we have all 870 00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:37,280 Speaker 2: through our history just broken even in America. So we 871 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,760 Speaker 2: come to America when you see Travis in America, we're 872 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,640 Speaker 2: coming to see you. We're not there to make any 873 00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,480 Speaker 2: money or anything, because we've never made money in America, 874 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,360 Speaker 2: and our manager didn't really like that, so he stopped. 875 00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,600 Speaker 2: He stopped, he stopped bringing us over here fourteen years ago, 876 00:59:55,400 --> 01:00:01,440 Speaker 2: and eventually we we we changed their manag sure after 877 01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:06,520 Speaker 2: twenty twenty odd years and and now that we're a 878 01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:08,920 Speaker 2: little bit more in control of our of the controls 879 01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:13,720 Speaker 2: of our of our spaceship, we're coming back. And we 880 01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,240 Speaker 2: might not make any money in America, but it's not 881 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:21,480 Speaker 2: about money. Like you ask any any songwriter or a 882 01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:25,800 Speaker 2: musician or artists worth their salt, or journalist or anyone 883 01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:31,720 Speaker 2: who makes something from nothing, they you probably find that 884 01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,560 Speaker 2: most of them are kind of like like, wow, we 885 01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,120 Speaker 2: we we're still getting away with this. You know, we're 886 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:43,200 Speaker 2: still able to do this. So I would say, coming 887 01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:49,040 Speaker 2: to America, we Travis Priky, we go and do like festivals. 888 01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,920 Speaker 2: This is where bands generally make their their their like 889 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:57,480 Speaker 2: paydays and and festivals are very different from their own shows. 890 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:02,920 Speaker 2: And we're we haven't really toured in America for fourteen years, 891 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,680 Speaker 2: so this is like this tours. I feel like we're 892 01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:13,760 Speaker 2: can have. It's like starting over again. It feels I 893 01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,800 Speaker 2: think there's a lot of a lot of work to 894 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:21,080 Speaker 2: do in America, and then I don't know if there's 895 01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,520 Speaker 2: enough years left in my life to do it. But 896 01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:30,560 Speaker 2: we have a good following here and people come and 897 01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,160 Speaker 2: see us, so I guess that's good. 898 01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,280 Speaker 1: Okay, underneath that, you're gonna go on the road. Let's 899 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,840 Speaker 1: just assume you break even. You're gonna play venues where 900 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:46,120 Speaker 1: everybody's gonna know all the songs, great personal experience. In 901 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,600 Speaker 1: the back of your mind, are you saying, well, if 902 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:54,640 Speaker 1: this is really great, maybe next time they'll bring their friends, 903 01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:58,720 Speaker 1: will be larger venues, or maybe there'll be some spark. 904 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:00,520 Speaker 1: Is that part of it? 905 01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely a part of it. Every band wants 906 01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,640 Speaker 2: to break America, every band, because it's like there's there's 907 01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,960 Speaker 2: a there's there's different aspects of of what it is 908 01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:14,000 Speaker 2: that we do. One of them is try and write 909 01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:17,760 Speaker 2: a melody that you've not heard before, try and speak 910 01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,800 Speaker 2: your heart. Don't write a song, don't don't ever ever 911 01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:25,360 Speaker 2: write a song to fit with the current wallpaper. Just 912 01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,680 Speaker 2: like Steve job Right, I write songs. I'm a big 913 01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:33,880 Speaker 2: believer in that. Just if it comes out like it's you, 914 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,080 Speaker 2: don't don't kill it because it doesn't look like all 915 01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:40,640 Speaker 2: the other ones. You know, like like that that because 916 01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:43,520 Speaker 2: it doesn't look the other ones, then that's something to celebrate. 917 01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,120 Speaker 2: So all the songs that come out has to mean something. 918 01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,160 Speaker 2: But there's also another aspect of it, which is wow. 919 01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,960 Speaker 2: You know, like songs are like a cure. Songs are 920 01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,919 Speaker 2: like medicine. They're like magic spells. And you can see 921 01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,360 Speaker 2: it when you when you play a show. The challenge 922 01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:09,960 Speaker 2: is break America and and but don't don't lose that 923 01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:15,520 Speaker 2: core value. Don't don't don't do it against your core values. 924 01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,560 Speaker 2: Don't burn your core value used to break America. If 925 01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,400 Speaker 2: you break America, it'll probably be the backs. And we 926 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:26,400 Speaker 2: broke Europe and the United Kingdom in nineteen ninety nine, 927 01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:31,880 Speaker 2: about two thousand and three, and then it was but 928 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:36,600 Speaker 2: it was real, it was it's not It wasn't really 929 01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:41,720 Speaker 2: that enjoyable because you suddenly you're famous, and then everyone 930 01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:46,720 Speaker 2: treats you differently, and then suddenly you're it's a weird thing. 931 01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,960 Speaker 2: I can't imagine what it's like to break America. But 932 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:54,720 Speaker 2: the challenge is to hold on to your core values 933 01:03:55,680 --> 01:04:02,360 Speaker 2: and be and play bigger venues because these songs, they 934 01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:06,640 Speaker 2: they work, they're they're a cure. They make people feel better. 935 01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,840 Speaker 2: They and you and I both know when you hear 936 01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:15,280 Speaker 2: a song you talked about Jackson Brown, I was listening to, 937 01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:23,200 Speaker 2: Oh God, it's that song. It's in Taxi Driver, remember 938 01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:28,200 Speaker 2: the name for this late for this guy. So that 939 01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,480 Speaker 2: when I heard that song, and I didn't really know 940 01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:33,600 Speaker 2: Jackson Brown. I know what it looks like and a 941 01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:37,880 Speaker 2: few friends had records by albums and then I heard 942 01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:39,560 Speaker 2: that song and I was like, who the fuck is this? 943 01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:45,680 Speaker 2: And it like it went into me. I was sorry 944 01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,919 Speaker 2: for digressing, jumping and popping and even but my brain 945 01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:53,160 Speaker 2: jumps around a little bit. Last night, I was lying 946 01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:57,840 Speaker 2: in bed with my mother half and it was like 947 01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,680 Speaker 2: one o'clock in the morning and we're sort of trying 948 01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:07,760 Speaker 2: to fall asleep, and the end song on a TV 949 01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:14,920 Speaker 2: show we were watching was Wichita Lineman, which I mean, 950 01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:16,840 Speaker 2: I could tear you just thinking about that song. What 951 01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,800 Speaker 2: is it about that song that makes me like like 952 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,200 Speaker 2: well up? And there's a line in it and I 953 01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:29,400 Speaker 2: was saying to say, like, what, what an amazing thing? 954 01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:32,160 Speaker 2: There's a line in that song that goes and I 955 01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,840 Speaker 2: need you more than want you, and I want you 956 01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,160 Speaker 2: for all the time. Isn't it great that you can 957 01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:42,320 Speaker 2: hear a song and that one line can last you 958 01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:46,520 Speaker 2: your whole life. I can, I can eat that line 959 01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:51,440 Speaker 2: forever because it never ever it's like a riddle or something, 960 01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,960 Speaker 2: and you sit with it and you're like, oh it 961 01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,840 Speaker 2: even now just saying I'm like, oh, such a gorgeous 962 01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,760 Speaker 2: use the words, the melody and the emotion and the 963 01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:05,240 Speaker 2: strings sound on top of it. It's music is like 964 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,040 Speaker 2: a So if you're a musician who writes from the heart, 965 01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:13,520 Speaker 2: it goes out and you we're not we're not, we're 966 01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,200 Speaker 2: never just we're not doing it for money. Right, You're 967 01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:20,360 Speaker 2: out and you're you're you're carrying the cure. You're you're 968 01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,680 Speaker 2: taking it to people to make people feel better, and 969 01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:28,040 Speaker 2: I'm if you doing that, then I want to take 970 01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,200 Speaker 2: it to a bigger audience. You might never your audience 971 01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,240 Speaker 2: might never get bigger because you're not in control of 972 01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:39,800 Speaker 2: that at all. But but the temptation to take it bigger, 973 01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:44,880 Speaker 2: to cure more people, to make hearts feel better, Like 974 01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:49,040 Speaker 2: people come up to me all the time and tell 975 01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:51,120 Speaker 2: me all this song really helped me, or this song 976 01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:54,040 Speaker 2: got me back in touch with my dad, or because 977 01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:56,480 Speaker 2: we both liked it, and you know, it's like wow, 978 01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:01,480 Speaker 2: it's a powerful thing, is music. And I'm I'm deeply 979 01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,640 Speaker 2: kind of humbled and everything to be able to do it. 980 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:12,800 Speaker 2: And I definitely I think I think we've been singing 981 01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:14,919 Speaker 2: longer than we've been speaking. And I think that's why 982 01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:23,360 Speaker 2: music's maybe goes deeper than all of the arts. 983 01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:30,440 Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about not selling out and you got 984 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:33,480 Speaker 1: to speak from the heart. To what degree didn't you 985 01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:38,960 Speaker 1: dissociate yourself from the audience. Let's use the reverse paradigm. 986 01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,280 Speaker 1: There are all these people in writing sessions as we 987 01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:47,960 Speaker 1: speak in Nashville trying to write a hit. Okay, yeah, 988 01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,680 Speaker 1: is there ever in your mind going, well, you know 989 01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:53,560 Speaker 1: if I do that, I want to write my own 990 01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:55,720 Speaker 1: Wichita Lineman, let me see how I can put the 991 01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:56,560 Speaker 1: pieces together. 992 01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,240 Speaker 2: Of course you do that every time you sit down song. 993 01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:06,840 Speaker 2: But you don't write Richita Iman. You write Richard ta Wineman. Right, 994 01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:12,480 Speaker 2: You're you're just you're trying to all everything. You're like 995 01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:16,280 Speaker 2: a You're like a tea bag in every single song 996 01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:18,880 Speaker 2: you've ever listened to and every experience you've ever had, 997 01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:21,280 Speaker 2: and every time your heart's being broken or you've been 998 01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:24,120 Speaker 2: let down, or every time you've been lightened up, it's 999 01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:25,840 Speaker 2: a tea leaf in that tea bag and then the 1000 01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:27,760 Speaker 2: hot water pours in and then a cup of tea 1001 01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:31,000 Speaker 2: comes out, and it's a different flavor every time. You 1002 01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:32,559 Speaker 2: don't know what you're going to get. When you sit 1003 01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:34,519 Speaker 2: down to write a song, you don't know what it's 1004 01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,720 Speaker 2: going to be. It's fucking amazing. It's a miracle. It's 1005 01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:42,160 Speaker 2: like like we're talking to Dougie, our best player when 1006 01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:45,040 Speaker 2: we were on tour and U can. He's like, yes, 1007 01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,519 Speaker 2: our shows kind of we have the song and we 1008 01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,000 Speaker 2: have a talk a lot on stage, and I don't 1009 01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,000 Speaker 2: have anything in my head before I go on stage. 1010 01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,920 Speaker 2: I just talk. So some nights it's just nonsense and 1011 01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:02,000 Speaker 2: it's and some nights I say some quite cool stuff. 1012 01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,479 Speaker 2: But there's definitely two different bits of the gig. And 1013 01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:09,880 Speaker 2: he says there's the talking bit, and it gets the 1014 01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:12,800 Speaker 2: audience is listening to that, and then he says the song. 1015 01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:16,720 Speaker 2: Then the song begins and he says songs like a 1016 01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:20,839 Speaker 2: magic spell, and everyone sort of go into this strange 1017 01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:24,080 Speaker 2: sort of reverie for about four minutes and then you 1018 01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,439 Speaker 2: sort of come out of it. And the only people 1019 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,080 Speaker 2: who are not under the spell are the other roadies 1020 01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:33,439 Speaker 2: and the guys who are having a like hold the 1021 01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:37,320 Speaker 2: spelling place because they can't and if they do, and 1022 01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:44,200 Speaker 2: sometimes they do, go into the spell zone. So yeah, 1023 01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,000 Speaker 2: the Nashville thing is an interesting thing because you've got 1024 01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:52,920 Speaker 2: ten guys sitting around deliberately trying to write a hit, 1025 01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:59,840 Speaker 2: deliberately thinking. I mean, it's the way the music business 1026 01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:04,600 Speaker 2: has done its thing. I mean, ninety eight percent of 1027 01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:10,040 Speaker 2: the music business is that, and that's song designing. I'm 1028 01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:15,000 Speaker 2: more interested in song divining. And that's where the two schools. 1029 01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:18,160 Speaker 2: That's where AI comes in. That AI will replace that 1030 01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:21,840 Speaker 2: the thing that I'm doing, the thing that you're doing. 1031 01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:26,800 Speaker 2: AI can't replace it because you need to you need 1032 01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:30,040 Speaker 2: you need to get your hand bitten by a dog. 1033 01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:32,920 Speaker 2: You need to get you need to get carjacked, you 1034 01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:37,360 Speaker 2: need to see someone dying in front of you, You 1035 01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:41,200 Speaker 2: need to look into like kiss your granda's forehead and 1036 01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:46,439 Speaker 2: his coffin right that. AI can't fucking do that. And 1037 01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:52,000 Speaker 2: that's where songwriting or No, I didn't even want to 1038 01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:55,679 Speaker 2: call it that magic. Spell making really comes in handy 1039 01:10:56,240 --> 01:11:00,799 Speaker 2: and that's why you'll all but always need it, because 1040 01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:05,080 Speaker 2: we all need that touch human touch thing that makes 1041 01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:07,719 Speaker 2: us human humans. That makes sense. 1042 01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:13,000 Speaker 1: So let's just say you had to stop today. Let's 1043 01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:17,720 Speaker 1: not talk about why do you have enough money? And 1044 01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,519 Speaker 1: there's enough money coming in from your history of Travis 1045 01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:24,040 Speaker 1: to get to you to the end. Yeah, okay, so 1046 01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:28,640 Speaker 1: you're not doing this primarily for money, and. 1047 01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:32,280 Speaker 2: What's my job? So you get paid for it, right, 1048 01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:35,639 Speaker 2: for for doing like the festivals and things and that 1049 01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,360 Speaker 2: that sort of. But I'm lucky enough to have written 1050 01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:43,840 Speaker 2: some evergreen songs that that the residuals are like good. Yeah, 1051 01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,599 Speaker 2: it's it's not it's not it's not great, but it's 1052 01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:51,639 Speaker 2: it's not like I grew up poor. And that's another thing, 1053 01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:54,559 Speaker 2: you know, like if you're poor, you're all of this, 1054 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:59,200 Speaker 2: all these wonderful things like music and art, culture and 1055 01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:04,760 Speaker 2: journalists and all those things are not on your menu. 1056 01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:10,479 Speaker 2: You're you're going to go to school, You're you're going 1057 01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:14,000 Speaker 2: to not enjoy it. You're going to leave and get 1058 01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:18,600 Speaker 2: a job, have a have a family, and die and 1059 01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,920 Speaker 2: life's going to be hard. It's going to be cool 1060 01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:24,599 Speaker 2: and nice and there's going to be all the ups 1061 01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:28,120 Speaker 2: and downs, and but I, like I said, it wasn't 1062 01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:30,000 Speaker 2: one of the menu for me. And my mum moved 1063 01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:32,840 Speaker 2: us from this very like where we lived was the 1064 01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:38,519 Speaker 2: Heroin capital of Europe in nineteen eighty three or eighty two, 1065 01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:43,679 Speaker 2: place called Possel Park like if you's it's like fossil 1066 01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:48,960 Speaker 2: but with a p and we lived there and she 1067 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,360 Speaker 2: moved us over to the south side of Glasgow and 1068 01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:57,000 Speaker 2: to one of the best normal just schools, but it 1069 01:12:57,120 --> 01:12:59,679 Speaker 2: was one of the best schools in the whole city. 1070 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:04,600 Speaker 2: And at this school, I there was a couple of 1071 01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:10,120 Speaker 2: teachers that saw something in me and even polished it 1072 01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,760 Speaker 2: a little bit and gave me confidence and got me 1073 01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:17,280 Speaker 2: and went look at this. Look here's the impressionists. You 1074 01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:19,479 Speaker 2: can draw. I mean that's what I did. I was 1075 01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:23,639 Speaker 2: a drawer. I never like like I think, I only 1076 01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:26,479 Speaker 2: started singing like when I was like much older and 1077 01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:28,640 Speaker 2: being in bands was much more down the line. But 1078 01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,799 Speaker 2: art and drawing and visual art was much more my things. 1079 01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:38,479 Speaker 2: Kind of still isn't a way, So yeah, I didn't. 1080 01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:44,760 Speaker 2: That wasn't on the menu and for me and so 1081 01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:51,760 Speaker 2: I to think that I have residuals or you from 1082 01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:57,400 Speaker 2: get played on the radio from these songs is partly 1083 01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:04,120 Speaker 2: kind of like wow again, Like I say, like musicians 1084 01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,800 Speaker 2: are a little bit like can you believe we're getting 1085 01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:10,040 Speaker 2: away with this? You can actually make a living out of. 1086 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:15,799 Speaker 1: So have you ever decided to go straight? You didn't decide, 1087 01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:17,519 Speaker 1: If you didn't do it, you ever thought about it? Though, 1088 01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,160 Speaker 1: I just can't do this anymore. For whatever reason. I 1089 01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:21,200 Speaker 1: got to do something else. 1090 01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,519 Speaker 2: Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, I do it. Every time I 1091 01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:29,320 Speaker 2: sit down to write a song. I fucking hate writing songs. 1092 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:36,960 Speaker 2: It's the most humiliating tooth pulling process in my life. 1093 01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:42,439 Speaker 2: And there's because it's like everyone talks about it like 1094 01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:47,840 Speaker 2: it's some kind of artistic thing I have. It's just 1095 01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:54,960 Speaker 2: pure digging dig dig dicks. Like uh. The the scene 1096 01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:58,000 Speaker 2: at the beginning of There Won't Be Blood, Daniel day 1097 01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,240 Speaker 2: lewis down the hole like with a little with his 1098 01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:05,599 Speaker 2: leg broken, and he's digging and digging and digging looking 1099 01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:07,880 Speaker 2: for that little bit of gold that he's going to 1100 01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:10,880 Speaker 2: take up and crawl across the desert to the to 1101 01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:12,519 Speaker 2: the guy. He's going to crush it down and make 1102 01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:16,840 Speaker 2: it into the ring or whatever. It feels like. Songwriting 1103 01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:21,720 Speaker 2: to me is very man you And there's a lot 1104 01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:28,479 Speaker 2: of like, you know, the sort of classic scrunched up 1105 01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:30,439 Speaker 2: bits of paper get thrown at the waste paper by 1106 01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,160 Speaker 2: his kid. You know, that's a piece of ship. That's 1107 01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:37,160 Speaker 2: a piece of ship. And you sort of you've slowly 1108 01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:42,599 Speaker 2: drinned your ego down until it's dust and you can't 1109 01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,080 Speaker 2: and you think you're the worst song writer in the 1110 01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:49,760 Speaker 2: entire world. And what I've learned is just beyond the 1111 01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:55,960 Speaker 2: crest of that hill of self hate and humiliation lies 1112 01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:00,920 Speaker 2: the song. The ego can't. I've learned in my many 1113 01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:05,280 Speaker 2: years writing that the ego has to be out of 1114 01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:08,240 Speaker 2: the way, it has to be gone for you to 1115 01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:11,559 Speaker 2: for the thing to come through you. And when it does, 1116 01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:17,880 Speaker 2: it's like it's kind of mad and special. And that's 1117 01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:20,920 Speaker 2: the thing you get addicted to. You get addicted to 1118 01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,320 Speaker 2: that feeling when when a song comes through and you 1119 01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:26,200 Speaker 2: let oh my good, when nothing compares to it, there's 1120 01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:29,880 Speaker 2: nothing that compares to it. I can only imagine what 1121 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:32,080 Speaker 2: Jimmy Webb thought when when he wrote and I need 1122 01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,200 Speaker 2: you more than want you, and I want you for 1123 01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:39,320 Speaker 2: all time. I mean probably I mean, he's he probably 1124 01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:42,400 Speaker 2: punched the air and he was just like yes. But 1125 01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:47,599 Speaker 2: to get to that line, who knows if it took 1126 01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:51,080 Speaker 2: like months of digging and digging or if it just 1127 01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:56,320 Speaker 2: like happened with that. But so yeah, when I'm in that, 1128 01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,599 Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck this. I do not have fucking hate 1129 01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:03,680 Speaker 2: this job. I'm rubbish. I can't do this, But I 1130 01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,080 Speaker 2: do it because at the back of your head, you 1131 01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:09,080 Speaker 2: want that. You want you want to you know that 1132 01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:13,640 Speaker 2: the there's a certain arrangement of notes and a rhythm 1133 01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,639 Speaker 2: that constitute a new melody, and finding a new melody 1134 01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:21,000 Speaker 2: and a new song or feeling to put around that 1135 01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:29,240 Speaker 2: melody is more overpowering than the humiliation and that I 1136 01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:32,080 Speaker 2: want to stop doing this, but I do have those 1137 01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:33,800 Speaker 2: feelings like I can't go on. 1138 01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:39,559 Speaker 1: Oh okay. But in terms of your process, are you 1139 01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:43,160 Speaker 1: always writing songs or you're saying, oh, it's time to 1140 01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:45,760 Speaker 1: do an album. I got to sit down and write songs. 1141 01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,880 Speaker 2: It's like going to the bathroom. It's like flushing a toilet. 1142 01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,760 Speaker 2: Like no, it's not like litt let's let's keep scatology 1143 01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:59,200 Speaker 2: out of it. It's like flushing a toilet. Will stay 1144 01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:03,280 Speaker 2: hold we'll stay in the bathroom. But your cistern where 1145 01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:06,760 Speaker 2: all the water is kept, it fills up. And in 1146 01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:13,000 Speaker 2: this filling up of the cistern is an It is 1147 01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:18,720 Speaker 2: what you do between the finishing the last song for 1148 01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:22,960 Speaker 2: the last record and beginning writing the next and the 1149 01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:25,599 Speaker 2: next song, not the next record, because it's just song 1150 01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:32,800 Speaker 2: best and and and right now it's filling up. And 1151 01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:35,200 Speaker 2: I know, I know songwriters who have gone in and 1152 01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:38,640 Speaker 2: they flush the toilet, and now comes the album, and 1153 01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:42,360 Speaker 2: then they go for for the next twenty years and 1154 01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:46,320 Speaker 2: they get little little gyps if there's nothing. Really you 1155 01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:48,600 Speaker 2: gotta wait for it. You gotta let let let it. 1156 01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:54,200 Speaker 2: Let your live a bit go out. You have experiences, 1157 01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:56,519 Speaker 2: live your life a little bit. Let the let the 1158 01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:59,160 Speaker 2: cistern fill up. I used to feel like shit, I 1159 01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,320 Speaker 2: don't want to write writer's block. And then I realized 1160 01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:04,360 Speaker 2: sort of got wise to it, and I was like, no, 1161 01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:08,000 Speaker 2: this is this is part of the process, This is 1162 01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:13,799 Speaker 2: part of this is a complete This is like possibly 1163 01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:16,720 Speaker 2: the sort of the biggest bit of it, which is 1164 01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:22,559 Speaker 2: the the inaction. You know, you're the harvest is only 1165 01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:24,599 Speaker 2: a week long. You know, for the rest of the year, 1166 01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:29,639 Speaker 2: the field is being tell the seats are being planted, 1167 01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:35,720 Speaker 2: then watered, then then grown and then but like I say, 1168 01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:40,439 Speaker 2: the harvest is very quick. So right now I'm in 1169 01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:45,799 Speaker 2: the follow that I'm quite happy to not be writing. 1170 01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:50,320 Speaker 1: Okay, I understand the analogy to the system, Yes, but 1171 01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:55,000 Speaker 1: how much of this is eking it out? And how 1172 01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:58,360 Speaker 1: much of it is a bolt of lightning raw inspiration? 1173 01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:04,479 Speaker 2: Oh, it's all most of it digging. And then then 1174 01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:08,000 Speaker 2: you see the little the little something. And I think 1175 01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:12,880 Speaker 2: if there's any talent involved in song ring its identities, 1176 01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:16,120 Speaker 2: knowing that when you see it, it's having the patience 1177 01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:22,840 Speaker 2: to dig, and knowing having the sense to sense the 1178 01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:24,920 Speaker 2: glitter when you see it or when you feel it, 1179 01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:28,760 Speaker 2: and know that that's worth pursuing, and you pull it 1180 01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:32,000 Speaker 2: out very gently, you know, like a little thread of 1181 01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:35,680 Speaker 2: nylon out of the the ether, out of nothing, and 1182 01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:38,360 Speaker 2: you can make I mean, I was talking to someone 1183 01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:47,400 Speaker 2: the other day about what's that like? Two notes? Right? 1184 01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:53,719 Speaker 2: Is that that classical music place? Dun damn dunn dwn Right, 1185 01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:58,240 Speaker 2: that's two notes. And he took that and he made 1186 01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:02,439 Speaker 2: it into a symphony. Two notes, the whole fucking thing 1187 01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,679 Speaker 2: two notes. And that's what I mean, Like it can be. 1188 01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:11,880 Speaker 2: He's so he recognized in that little two notes an 1189 01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:15,439 Speaker 2: entire He made an entire. It's like you can pick 1190 01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:17,160 Speaker 2: it out and you can make a symphony out of it. 1191 01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:20,120 Speaker 2: You can make a two minute pop song out of it. 1192 01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,519 Speaker 2: You can make a poem, you can write a paint 1193 01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:26,920 Speaker 2: of painting. It's so there is a flash of lightning 1194 01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:32,479 Speaker 2: and that's but most of it is darkness. That you 1195 01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:34,720 Speaker 2: don't see the lightning unless it's dark. 1196 01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:38,960 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's assume at what point do you say 1197 01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:42,920 Speaker 1: it's time to record, and how does that happen since 1198 01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:44,759 Speaker 1: everybody lives in a different location. 1199 01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:55,040 Speaker 2: I'm well, you we so you go right, we can't 1200 01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:58,080 Speaker 2: just I don't want to. There's there there's a natural 1201 01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:02,400 Speaker 2: sort of cycle to it. So you get your you're 1202 01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:06,200 Speaker 2: sort of maybe three quarters. You've got maybe you've written 1203 01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:08,960 Speaker 2: hundreds and hundreds of ideas, but there's maybe seven that 1204 01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:12,080 Speaker 2: are that have a heartbeat or a pulse. So then 1205 01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:14,679 Speaker 2: you start talking about like, shoot, like let's let's maybe 1206 01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:18,439 Speaker 2: plan for in nine or six or nine months going 1207 01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:20,960 Speaker 2: to the studio and make a record. And it's as 1208 01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:23,640 Speaker 2: simple as that. You just book the time, put a 1209 01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:26,559 Speaker 2: line in the sand, and you go everything has to 1210 01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:30,120 Speaker 2: be written and demoed and ready to go by that 1211 01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:34,320 Speaker 2: line then you like in our case, the band came 1212 01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:37,080 Speaker 2: to Los Angeles, we all went into the studio with 1213 01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:41,040 Speaker 2: US producer Tony Hoffer and we spent three weeks which 1214 01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:43,960 Speaker 2: recorded the album and it was done. 1215 01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:46,519 Speaker 1: So you've worked with a lot of producers. To what 1216 01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:50,040 Speaker 1: degree our producers influential and what have you learned? 1217 01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:55,120 Speaker 2: There are hugely influential, hugely And they're influential in that 1218 01:22:56,400 --> 01:23:00,360 Speaker 2: they're a calm, very calm hand on the wheel there. 1219 01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:05,440 Speaker 2: They know how to talk to their like musician whisperers. 1220 01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:09,160 Speaker 2: Speaking to a drummer and a guitarist, there's two different languages, 1221 01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:12,040 Speaker 2: there's two different types. And they're very very good at 1222 01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:15,080 Speaker 2: talking to people and getting the best possible performance out 1223 01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:19,280 Speaker 2: of them and almost like the songwriter, they're brilliant at 1224 01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:24,240 Speaker 2: spotting the best performance not of that person's life, but 1225 01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:27,320 Speaker 2: that goes perfectly with the song. So when you put 1226 01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:30,240 Speaker 2: it all together, it's just it's like it sounds like records. 1227 01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:34,799 Speaker 2: Nigel Gotshi would would be like I'd be like singing 1228 01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:37,680 Speaker 2: and I'd be like that one was brilliant. I was 1229 01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:41,800 Speaker 2: I was like that's the best one, and Nigel would 1230 01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:43,960 Speaker 2: come on my headphones like that was ship. 1231 01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:44,840 Speaker 1: Do it again. 1232 01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:49,880 Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, and we do it again. I mean 1233 01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,080 Speaker 2: he would say that, but we we were like very 1234 01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:57,400 Speaker 2: good friends and would joke and he wouldn't mean it shit, 1235 01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:00,880 Speaker 2: just mean it's not good enough, so can do it again. 1236 01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:03,519 Speaker 2: I'm like, and to the point again, it may be 1237 01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:08,200 Speaker 2: an ego thing where I'm like that I'll finished singing something. 1238 01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:12,519 Speaker 2: I'm like, that's the worst I've sung that in the 1239 01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:17,120 Speaker 2: entire session. And he's like his voice comes on the 1240 01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:21,840 Speaker 2: count that was great. He's like, come in and you're like, 1241 01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:26,720 Speaker 2: I'm like, it's not great. There's the worst one. And 1242 01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:31,439 Speaker 2: you you go in and and plays it back and 1243 01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:38,559 Speaker 2: you're just like it's fair because it's a funny again, 1244 01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:41,000 Speaker 2: it's like magic, It's really it's really cool. 1245 01:24:41,479 --> 01:24:44,439 Speaker 1: So you know there was a peak in the UK 1246 01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:47,840 Speaker 1: the turn of the century for Travis. You won these 1247 01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:53,559 Speaker 1: brittle awards. All that is great, but emotionally, how is that? 1248 01:24:54,120 --> 01:24:56,440 Speaker 1: Do you feel like I want to climb the mountaintop 1249 01:24:56,560 --> 01:25:00,759 Speaker 1: or you say that's just one side detour and a trip. 1250 01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:04,200 Speaker 1: What do you say you got? I'm pissed that people 1251 01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,040 Speaker 1: were not getting recognized on that level. 1252 01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:12,280 Speaker 2: Two things from from that that period and maybe like 1253 01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:18,320 Speaker 2: say the brit Awards, sermon, m we we won two 1254 01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:20,559 Speaker 2: years or three years in a row, we won something. 1255 01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:25,839 Speaker 2: We gave our awards away to different people that I 1256 01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:28,600 Speaker 2: don't really care about awards and that's not bothered, but 1257 01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:31,000 Speaker 2: it's nice to get things and be recognized and it's 1258 01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:35,000 Speaker 2: a reflection of your success. Walking up to get one 1259 01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:40,880 Speaker 2: of them, to get the award, I was walking up 1260 01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:44,920 Speaker 2: with the band and there was two levels. There's there's 1261 01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:48,960 Speaker 2: like the stages here, there's the first level and then 1262 01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:52,080 Speaker 2: there's another level where there's more tables. And we were 1263 01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:54,040 Speaker 2: on this level, so you have to get up and 1264 01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:58,280 Speaker 2: walk along. There's a sort of glass barrier, you know, 1265 01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:01,800 Speaker 2: where people were leaning on it like and as we 1266 01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:05,519 Speaker 2: were walking up to get our award for the best 1267 01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,120 Speaker 2: British Band of the Year or whatever it was, this 1268 01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:11,519 Speaker 2: guy stuck his leg out and tripped me up on 1269 01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:15,400 Speaker 2: the way to on the way to the to the 1270 01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:18,559 Speaker 2: to get match to to get the award. I didn't 1271 01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:20,600 Speaker 2: really care about and that he tripped me up and 1272 01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:23,200 Speaker 2: I went like I went flying and I was going 1273 01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:25,479 Speaker 2: to knock his block off. I was like, fuck you. 1274 01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:30,600 Speaker 2: It's it's like come on, and then go up and 1275 01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:35,400 Speaker 2: like be like thanks everyone, be nice and happy. That's 1276 01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:37,559 Speaker 2: the sort of example of this sort of dichotomy of 1277 01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:39,840 Speaker 2: like you're on top of the world, but actually there's 1278 01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:41,960 Speaker 2: still a bully out there that's going to, you know, 1279 01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:45,720 Speaker 2: trip you up, literally trip you up as you're as 1280 01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:50,840 Speaker 2: you're in your thing. The other thing was another time 1281 01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:54,120 Speaker 2: when we went up there, I made a speech about 1282 01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:57,240 Speaker 2: I was like holding the award talking about if you're 1283 01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:01,840 Speaker 2: sitting in your room right now writing trying to write songs, 1284 01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:06,160 Speaker 2: this is dedicated to you, and I'm like, don't I 1285 01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:09,160 Speaker 2: said something like, don't give up. If you really really 1286 01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:13,400 Speaker 2: want to write and do it, just keep pushing and 1287 01:27:13,439 --> 01:27:17,840 Speaker 2: keep pushing. And I said something along those lines. And 1288 01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:22,520 Speaker 2: I met someone who's now one of the biggest songwriters 1289 01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:26,479 Speaker 2: in the world, like a total gun for hire, and 1290 01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:30,880 Speaker 2: she had been on her last legs and she was 1291 01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:39,000 Speaker 2: going to give up her thing, songwriting, and she saw 1292 01:27:39,320 --> 01:27:42,559 Speaker 2: us get the awards and it gave her a little 1293 01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:46,640 Speaker 2: bit of hope to keep going and she did, and 1294 01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,840 Speaker 2: she she's doing really well for herself. She's doing the 1295 01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:51,240 Speaker 2: other me. 1296 01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:56,439 Speaker 1: Okay, but going to the point where that was a peak. 1297 01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:02,240 Speaker 1: Are you constantly trying to eve a peak? Or is 1298 01:28:02,280 --> 01:28:05,240 Speaker 1: that just another bump in the road. 1299 01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:13,400 Speaker 2: I don't know. Again, you go back to the thing 1300 01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:20,719 Speaker 2: where you're you're you're carrying the you're carrying the word, 1301 01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:24,840 Speaker 2: You're carrying the cure. And so I want you want 1302 01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:27,200 Speaker 2: to you want to get to as you want to 1303 01:28:27,240 --> 01:28:29,360 Speaker 2: get the cure to as many people as possible. So 1304 01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:31,639 Speaker 2: you want to you want that song to get out there. 1305 01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:37,000 Speaker 2: So and with that, if it does get out there, 1306 01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:40,920 Speaker 2: with that comes a lot of like cruise stuff, but 1307 01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:44,240 Speaker 2: also kind of like for someone for an introvert, it's 1308 01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:50,040 Speaker 2: not it's not it's not nice when you get famous. 1309 01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:56,880 Speaker 2: So with that comes uncomfortable stuff. Uncomfortable stuff. Uh yeah, 1310 01:28:56,920 --> 01:28:59,559 Speaker 2: So I'm constantly pushing, yeah, pushing. 1311 01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:03,840 Speaker 1: Okay, you say you're an introvert, tell me about that 1312 01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:05,360 Speaker 1: in your everyday life. 1313 01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:13,519 Speaker 2: I am. I'm very shy. I'm not, it's just weird. 1314 01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:15,800 Speaker 2: I'm shy, but I'm not afraid to get up on 1315 01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:19,680 Speaker 2: the stage. I've like when I'm big, A lot of 1316 01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:23,679 Speaker 2: people are like parties or social gatherings. I'm not really 1317 01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:27,960 Speaker 2: I get really anxious, like you know, like too many people, 1318 01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:31,240 Speaker 2: there's I don't know why. I just always got a 1319 01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:35,360 Speaker 2: bit like I mean, some nights maybe not, but other 1320 01:29:35,479 --> 01:29:39,800 Speaker 2: nights I get a bit. I spend a lot of 1321 01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:44,320 Speaker 2: time on my own. I'm an only child, and so 1322 01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:47,800 Speaker 2: I spend a lot of time by myself, and so 1323 01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:52,160 Speaker 2: writing songs is quite conducive. There's two things go hand 1324 01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:55,679 Speaker 2: in hand. So again yeah, but again on the other 1325 01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:59,280 Speaker 2: side of that, I'm not I've never been faced by 1326 01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:03,800 Speaker 2: getting on a stage and talking songes inder what I'm 1327 01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:04,280 Speaker 2: going to say. 1328 01:30:05,160 --> 01:30:09,599 Speaker 1: Okay, you're living in la generally speaking, what are you doing? 1329 01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:13,559 Speaker 1: You're watching streaming television, you're reading a book, you go 1330 01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:16,360 Speaker 1: into the studio, you're calling up friends. What is your 1331 01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:17,559 Speaker 1: everyday life? Like? 1332 01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:21,280 Speaker 2: Well, in everyday life has sort of been upended recently 1333 01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:24,599 Speaker 2: because my son has graduated now from high school and 1334 01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:26,519 Speaker 2: he's going to art school next year, and he's having 1335 01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:32,200 Speaker 2: a year of traveling in gallivanting this year, and I'm touring. 1336 01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:37,640 Speaker 2: But when he graduated May last year, and then we 1337 01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:40,280 Speaker 2: went on touring at the end he graduated end of 1338 01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:44,280 Speaker 2: me we went on tour June July or September. I 1339 01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:48,320 Speaker 2: came back in September and I hadn't processed the whole 1340 01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:52,639 Speaker 2: life changing. So and I'm still processing that right now 1341 01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:57,439 Speaker 2: because for seventeen years you are your number one job 1342 01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:03,360 Speaker 2: is being the father of Clay and that is over 1343 01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:07,640 Speaker 2: everything else. That's my whole day was that and songwriting 1344 01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:10,880 Speaker 2: and all the other stuff revolved around that. But now 1345 01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:17,080 Speaker 2: he's off, So I'm now in this new quite nice, like, 1346 01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:21,479 Speaker 2: oh I've got some got some room. So I do 1347 01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:25,920 Speaker 2: a lot of work for the band. I mean making 1348 01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:32,240 Speaker 2: videos and making artwork and writing songs and and that 1349 01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:36,280 Speaker 2: that generally takes up a lot of time. As you'll know. 1350 01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:43,519 Speaker 2: You can you can sit for the last night, I 1351 01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:48,280 Speaker 2: was listening to a show we recorded it in Glasgow 1352 01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:51,200 Speaker 2: last December. It was our last show of the year, 1353 01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:55,160 Speaker 2: and I got all of the files and then just 1354 01:31:55,200 --> 01:31:58,720 Speaker 2: started fiddling around with it on pro tools in like 1355 01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:03,200 Speaker 2: three hours, just and so time, and you know, it's 1356 01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:04,880 Speaker 2: that's what I do with my time. 1357 01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:10,680 Speaker 1: I just what you in Potter, Okay, But to what 1358 01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,880 Speaker 1: degree are you social? You live in a big city 1359 01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:15,840 Speaker 1: and to what degree you know, Robbie. 1360 01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:17,439 Speaker 2: Williams, I'm not social at all. 1361 01:32:17,360 --> 01:32:19,879 Speaker 1: Okay, So you're not social at all. So generally speaking, 1362 01:32:19,960 --> 01:32:22,080 Speaker 1: you're a homebody. You're doing your thing. 1363 01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:25,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never had a dinner party in my entire life. 1364 01:32:26,080 --> 01:32:27,000 Speaker 2: I've never thrown one. 1365 01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:29,599 Speaker 1: How about going to one. 1366 01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:33,880 Speaker 2: I've gone a couple, but I'll leave early. It just 1367 01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:35,280 Speaker 2: stresses me out too much. 1368 01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:39,639 Speaker 1: I'm just like, not, Well, you talked about this friend 1369 01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:42,360 Speaker 1: who moved to Alabama, you talked about the friend who 1370 01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:45,479 Speaker 1: passed away. Do you have a regular friend network that 1371 01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:46,559 Speaker 1: you're in contact with? 1372 01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, dude, but it's not very big, and 1373 01:32:52,680 --> 01:32:58,519 Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's not back again. It's like we're living 1374 01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:03,439 Speaker 2: in a time where you need everyone's like everyone's got 1375 01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:08,479 Speaker 2: like fifty thousand friends. And I'm like, I tend to 1376 01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:14,040 Speaker 2: think about you sort of mirror your first seven years. 1377 01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:17,160 Speaker 2: The rest of your life mirrors that. And I grew 1378 01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:19,960 Speaker 2: up with my mum, just me and her. That was it, 1379 01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:22,960 Speaker 2: and my granddad, Ma Nana would pop in and I 1380 01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:26,160 Speaker 2: would pop in there. And that was very small. I 1381 01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:29,479 Speaker 2: didn't have any brothers and sisters. I didn't. I only 1382 01:33:29,479 --> 01:33:33,120 Speaker 2: have one cousin and I'd see them every few persis. 1383 01:33:33,160 --> 01:33:38,200 Speaker 2: So my life now very much reflects that time. I 1384 01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:42,360 Speaker 2: have my my other half sparer, and we spent a 1385 01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:45,640 Speaker 2: lot of time together, Like she's half our time with 1386 01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:47,800 Speaker 2: our kids, and when she's not doing that, we were 1387 01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:50,760 Speaker 2: hanging out. If we can triangulate our times because I'm 1388 01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:54,840 Speaker 2: half with my kid and his mom's half with him. 1389 01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:57,479 Speaker 2: But yeah, it's very simple. 1390 01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:01,559 Speaker 1: So what do go your You a student of the game, 1391 01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:05,519 Speaker 1: someone like Elton John follows it really closely. The guys 1392 01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:09,640 Speaker 1: at a c DC. Young says, I only listen to 1393 01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:10,439 Speaker 1: my own music. 1394 01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:15,639 Speaker 2: I'm not. I don't think I'm a student of the game. 1395 01:34:16,680 --> 01:34:18,360 Speaker 2: Like I say, I think there's more to the game 1396 01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:25,680 Speaker 2: than just music. Like Elton John wrote that met the 1397 01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:28,720 Speaker 2: top line melodies and that's that was the sort of 1398 01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:32,160 Speaker 2: a lot of emotion comes from that. I think that 1399 01:34:32,320 --> 01:34:38,160 Speaker 2: it's the melody. And I'm definitely not. I don't watch 1400 01:34:38,240 --> 01:34:42,120 Speaker 2: the I don't watch the wallpaper. I am, I print it. 1401 01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:45,800 Speaker 2: I do the other the other thing, and I don't 1402 01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:48,160 Speaker 2: listen to myself either. It's the last thing I'm going 1403 01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:51,000 Speaker 2: to do. I get out and about and I take 1404 01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:53,520 Speaker 2: in information and. 1405 01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:57,360 Speaker 1: Well, friend, we've come to the end of the feeling 1406 01:34:57,479 --> 01:35:02,280 Speaker 1: we've known. You've been very forthcoming. It's been a great 1407 01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:05,599 Speaker 1: pleasure to speak with you, and I'm sure your fans 1408 01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:09,680 Speaker 1: are going to really enjoy the Travis performance is coming up. 1409 01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:13,960 Speaker 2: Oh thanks, Bob, I am it's been lovely talking to you. 1410 01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:21,400 Speaker 2: And despite all all the technical and kerfuffle at the beginning, 1411 01:35:23,240 --> 01:35:25,320 Speaker 2: but we managed that. We got there in the end, 1412 01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:29,519 Speaker 2: and and hopefully maybe in one hundred years from there 1413 01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:33,160 Speaker 2: we'll meet again our AI versions of ourselves and in 1414 01:35:33,240 --> 01:35:37,400 Speaker 2: the new stimulation and and we'll well, the next time, 1415 01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:41,160 Speaker 2: we probably won't need microphones. We'll just we'll just it'll 1416 01:35:41,200 --> 01:35:41,679 Speaker 2: just happen. 1417 01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:44,320 Speaker 1: Our avatars will talk. 1418 01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:46,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1419 01:35:46,920 --> 01:35:50,240 Speaker 1: In any event, until next time. This is Bob Left 1420 01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:50,599 Speaker 1: Shows