WEBVTT - 6: Round and Round

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know it was meant to happen. You know

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying, We weren't meant to have that success

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<v Speaker 1>at that time because I think that I think we

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have been able to hand it.

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<v Speaker 2>That is Tim Bird. He wrote and produced music with

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<v Speaker 2>Sudden Impact, the lost boy band I'm trying to find.

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<v Speaker 2>He was so integral to their sound. Some people call

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<v Speaker 2>him the sixth member of Sudden Impact. I've gotten his

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<v Speaker 2>contact info from Aaron Kane, the lead singer of the group,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm getting the Sudden Impact story from his perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>and right away I get a brand new piece of information.

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<v Speaker 1>They start a group called Too Special first before they

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<v Speaker 1>became set an Impact.

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<v Speaker 2>Too Special, Yes what I'm saying, too number two to

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<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, okay, Too Special. This is a group who's

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<v Speaker 2>had a lot of ups and downs, a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>record labels and a lot of getting dropped from record labels,

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<v Speaker 2>and as you're about to find out, they've also had

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of names. In this episode, we'll hear more

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<v Speaker 2>of the Sudden Impact story from producer Tim Bird and

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<v Speaker 2>lead singer Aaron Kane. This is Waiting for Impact, a

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<v Speaker 2>Dave Holmes passion project when we left off in the

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<v Speaker 2>last episode, I was trying to get Noel Kane's contact

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<v Speaker 2>info from his brother Aaron finally did get it. I

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<v Speaker 2>have reached out and as of yet, I have not

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<v Speaker 2>heard anything back. But in the meantime, there's another name

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<v Speaker 2>to add to the list of names that this group

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<v Speaker 2>has had. Too Special became Sudden Impact, which became White Guys.

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<v Speaker 2>And not to spoil anything, but that list of names

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<v Speaker 2>is going to get longer. More on that later, but

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<v Speaker 2>for now, tell me how you came to work with

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<v Speaker 2>Sudden Impact.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we all went to high school together. Was that

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<v Speaker 1>I was in a group at the time. We were

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<v Speaker 1>performing original songs and one of the members of Sudden Impact, well,

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<v Speaker 1>they became such a bat, Todd White.

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<v Speaker 3>He wanted to start a group like New Kids on

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<v Speaker 3>the Block.

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<v Speaker 2>It's nineteen eighty nine as this story begins. Bobby Brown's

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<v Speaker 2>Don't Be Cruel is the number one album of the year.

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<v Speaker 2>Mariah Carey is recording her debut album. The Rolling Stones

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<v Speaker 2>are out on their Steel Wheels Comeback Tour. Will Smith

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<v Speaker 2>beats JJ FADD and Cool Mo d to win the

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<v Speaker 2>first ever Best Rap Performance Grammy for Parents. Just Don't understand,

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<v Speaker 2>and he meets with Quincy Jones to develop NBC's The

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<v Speaker 2>Fresh Prince of bel Air. Tim Bird joins Too Special

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<v Speaker 2>as the group's unofficial producer, and here in the present

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<v Speaker 2>he confirms the wildest part of the story.

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<v Speaker 1>So they're out in LA and they're calling us, Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>we just ranted the heavy d. Hey he's randed Stevie

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<v Speaker 1>wonder we thought they were lying. And then they had

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<v Speaker 1>their poster, the two Special poster, right yeah, And they

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<v Speaker 1>run into BIV.

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<v Speaker 3>There's like Michael Bibbins.

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<v Speaker 1>They say, uh, bib our poster and Biff told him

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<v Speaker 1>get that out of my face. Well, was something, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>curse first behind it. Get that out of my face.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not signing that bleep. And he thought it was

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<v Speaker 1>you can swear feeling.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>He thought it was a poster of new Kids on

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<v Speaker 1>the Block, because remember there was a rivalry between New

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<v Speaker 1>Audition and New Kids on the Block, right Sead back

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<v Speaker 1>in this day, right. So Todd told him said, look, no,

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<v Speaker 1>we're a new group.

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<v Speaker 3>We're stuck out here in LA.

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<v Speaker 1>We have no way to get back home, but would

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<v Speaker 1>you please sign this poster?

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<v Speaker 3>So he signed it. He said a new group. Huh,

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<v Speaker 3>all right, I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's some money for a ticket, plane ticket. I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 1>send you out back to Virginia and wait for a

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<v Speaker 1>call for me in a couple of weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>So, okay, Aaron told me that I didn't one percent

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<v Speaker 2>believe it. This is actually how it happened. He just

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<v Speaker 2>saw the picture.

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<v Speaker 3>Mm hmm, he just saw the pictures.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you do you think that that rivalry between New

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<v Speaker 2>Edition and New Kids on the Block had anything to

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<v Speaker 2>do with why he wanted to sign them.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I think so.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody else believes it, but I think so. Okay, I

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<v Speaker 1>think it was like get back, Yeah, yeah, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>and plus it's a lot of money because New Kids

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<v Speaker 1>on the Box they they made a billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 3>Off of merchandise Alon, right, right, So I think it

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<v Speaker 3>was that.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So what happens next?

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<v Speaker 1>What happens next? He calls us in a couple of weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>We didn't believe them even they came back from La

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah whatever, whatever. Me just working on songs and just

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<v Speaker 1>playing around, and Michael Bivens calls the house and we're talking.

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<v Speaker 1>He said, guys, I'm gonna sign you. Guys, I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 1>send the contracts. They'll be out there by FedEx. They

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<v Speaker 1>we all got the contracts, signed them as artists, signed

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<v Speaker 1>me as a producer, and changed their name to Sudden Impact.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, and why did he change that name?

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<v Speaker 3>He liked the movie Clint Eastwood movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Sudden Impact was a big movie. It's the one

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<v Speaker 2>that gave the culture go ahead, make my day. I

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<v Speaker 2>was hoping for a better story there, but I will

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<v Speaker 2>take that one. So Sudden Impact all signed their contracts.

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<v Speaker 2>Tim Bird signs his and goes from being the unofficial

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<v Speaker 2>producer to the official producer, and they all plan to

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<v Speaker 2>get busy recording, but before they do, they get their

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<v Speaker 2>big break.

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<v Speaker 1>And the rest is then they came back and ended

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<v Speaker 1>up in the Motown Philly video. Right, that was during

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<v Speaker 1>that same time they end up in the Motown Philly video.

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<v Speaker 2>So by the time they were in the Motown Philly video,

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<v Speaker 2>had had you recorded anything officially for Michael Bibbins yet?

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<v Speaker 1>We had just started Well, actually he hadn't heard it yet,

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<v Speaker 1>that's right, that's right. They didn't have They didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>a finished demo that we could send some because everything

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<v Speaker 1>was moving so fast.

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<v Speaker 2>So they're in the video but they don't have a

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<v Speaker 2>song yet.

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<v Speaker 3>No, not yet.

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<v Speaker 2>Sudden Impact has gotten a major leg up. The video

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<v Speaker 2>is on rotation on all the big music video networks.

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<v Speaker 2>People around the country are seeing it over and over

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<v Speaker 2>and they're waiting to hear music from Sudden Impact. The

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<v Speaker 2>pressure is on. How did that feel for all of

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<v Speaker 2>you getting that kind of boost? How did that feel?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh? I felt I felt great?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I felt like, this is my chance to

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<v Speaker 1>be Michael Jackson.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, be famous and all that. But what happens.

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<v Speaker 1>I ended up leaving my group to focus solely on

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<v Speaker 1>Sudden Impact.

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<v Speaker 2>What was your band called So Suave? So Suave is

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<v Speaker 2>an awesome name. But this is the point in the

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<v Speaker 2>story when the group that had been called Too Special

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<v Speaker 2>and later was called Sudden Impact is about to be

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<v Speaker 2>called something new.

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<v Speaker 1>After Motown Philly video came out, That's when Bibb started

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<v Speaker 1>marketing and finding other art artists to come into the

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<v Speaker 1>fold of the East Coast Family. Right then and there,

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<v Speaker 1>when he formed the East Coast Family, he changed Sudden.

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<v Speaker 3>Impact to the White Guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Now why because whenever he would do interviews or boys

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<v Speaker 1>and men would do interviews instead of asking questions about

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Bivens BBD or boys to men, they would say, Hey, whatever.

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<v Speaker 3>Happened to them? White guys? There's the video? Yeah and

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<v Speaker 3>so yeah, so big, change the name.

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<v Speaker 2>Change the name to white guys.

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<v Speaker 3>It's spelt like wit gizzies though.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I've seen them. I've seen them in the

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<v Speaker 2>video for one for all for one. Yes, where they

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<v Speaker 2>are it's w h yt g I z E.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you and how did the guys feel about

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<v Speaker 2>changing your name? For another time?

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<v Speaker 3>Didn't care. We were with Michael Bivens, So.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about Michael Bivens. I would love to talk

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<v Speaker 2>to Michael Bivins, but so far he hasn't gotten back

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<v Speaker 2>to me. I've asked I vete Nicole Brown to put

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<v Speaker 2>in a good word for me, because they're still close friends,

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<v Speaker 2>and she has, but so far nothing. I've been thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about it a lot, and I wonder whether he's worried

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<v Speaker 2>that he is going to be the villain of the story.

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<v Speaker 2>And I wonder whether that worries a Vet now that

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<v Speaker 2>she's involved with the show. And if that's the case,

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<v Speaker 2>I would understand his concern and hers, wouldn't you. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>what if somebody came up to you right now and said,

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<v Speaker 2>I just heard an amazing story about you. How would

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<v Speaker 2>you feel You'd be a little concerned for a minute,

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't you? Then? What if that person told you I'm

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<v Speaker 2>making a ten episode podcast series about that story. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>talking to all kinds of people who know you in

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<v Speaker 2>conversations that you won't be able to hear until the

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<v Speaker 2>show comes out. I get it. That has got to

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<v Speaker 2>be a scary thing to hear. If it were happening

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<v Speaker 2>to me, I probably wouldn't want to be involved either.

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<v Speaker 2>But a couple things. One, I am not interested in

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<v Speaker 2>assassinating anyone's character, or making a chump out of anyone,

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<v Speaker 2>or ruining anyone's reputation unless their kid Rock because I

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<v Speaker 2>hate that guy. Interesting stories usually don't have clear cut villains.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm not interested in telling a boring story or

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<v Speaker 2>an easy one. This is a complicated story where everyone

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<v Speaker 2>so far is just doing their best. And Two, no

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<v Speaker 2>matter how the biv ten project turned out, it started

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<v Speaker 2>in the first place because of a trait of Bivins

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<v Speaker 2>that I admire, one that I think is worth celebrating ambition.

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<v Speaker 2>The biv ten project wasn't what he hoped it would be,

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<v Speaker 2>but that doesn't mean it was a bad thing. It

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't the success that he envisioned, but that doesn't make

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<v Speaker 2>it a failure. And most importantly, though he couldn't deliver

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<v Speaker 2>to his artists the fame and fortune that he may

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<v Speaker 2>have implicitly or explicitly promised them, he didn't leave them

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<v Speaker 2>with nothing. Life doesn't work in binaries like that. The

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<v Speaker 2>people I've spoken to so far are mostly not rich

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<v Speaker 2>and mostly not famous, but they are all better off

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<v Speaker 2>for having known and worked with Michael Biffins, and they

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<v Speaker 2>know it. Even if their relationship is strained, they all

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<v Speaker 2>still respect and admire the guy. Tim Bird puts it, well,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you think Michael Bivins thinks of the whole

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<v Speaker 2>BIV ten experience?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know. Good questions.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't speculate, though, but I don't know. I think

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<v Speaker 1>he thought it was a success, and yeah, think about it,

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<v Speaker 1>he was the first puppy. What puppy ended up doing?

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<v Speaker 1>BIV did it first. Yeah, so I don't know what.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if those things behind the scenes that

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<v Speaker 1>went on that we weren't privy to, but I'm pretty

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<v Speaker 1>sure he should be He should be pat hisself from

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<v Speaker 1>the back.

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<v Speaker 2>Back to the saga of Sudden Impact. Who I guess

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<v Speaker 2>we should now start calling White Guys. What was the

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<v Speaker 2>sound of White.

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<v Speaker 3>Guys, Salman? White Guys?

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<v Speaker 2>Was?

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<v Speaker 3>I would say it was pop?

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't as poppy as in Sync or just that.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know a little more soul to it, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>you know a little more so a little more like uh,

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<v Speaker 1>a soulful group, like closely like what boys.

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<v Speaker 3>Thement was doing. Gotcha, Yeah, that's exactly they had. We

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<v Speaker 3>evolved over the years.

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<v Speaker 2>Though, and they had the time to evolve to catch

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<v Speaker 2>us up. Michael Bivens signed a group called Two Special

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<v Speaker 2>to his three artist production deal at Motown, then change

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<v Speaker 2>their name to Sudden Impact because he liked the Cline

0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.319
<v Speaker 2>Eastwood movie. Then signed Sudden Impact to Capitol Records, then

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<v Speaker 2>put Sudden Impact in Boys to Men's debut video, then

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<v Speaker 2>pulled them off Capitol Records to sign them to his

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<v Speaker 2>own label, biv ten Records, a division of Motown, then

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<v Speaker 2>changed their name again to White Guys. There's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of activity going on around this project, and once again,

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<v Speaker 2>Michael Bivens still has not heard a single song. What

0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.760
<v Speaker 2>then happens with white guys. Do you end up in

0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:18.719
<v Speaker 2>the studio at all?

0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, we started, we had built our own studio at

0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Todd's house, so we were always recorded at home, so

0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.520
<v Speaker 1>every day we would have songs. And at that time

0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.120
<v Speaker 1>there was something going on between I think Boys.

0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.840
<v Speaker 3>To Men and Michael Bivens. Not sure.

0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Let's dig into that a little bit. Boys to Men's

0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.280
<v Speaker 2>debut album, Coolly High Harmony, was executive produced by Michael Bivens,

0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.440
<v Speaker 2>and it was a big success. It sold nine million copies.

0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.840
<v Speaker 2>It had hits like Motown Philly and It's So Hard

0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.120
<v Speaker 2>to Say Goodbye to Yesterday, which would play at high

0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.520
<v Speaker 2>school graduation parties for years to come. Boys to Men

0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.080
<v Speaker 2>were on their way. In nineteen ninety two, they went

0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.480
<v Speaker 2>into the studio with Babyface, one of the most successful

0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.000
<v Speaker 2>R and B songwriters and producers of all time. They

0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.320
<v Speaker 2>recorded a song for the soundtrack of the Eddie Murphy

0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.840
<v Speaker 2>halle Berry romantic comedy Boomerang. That song was called End

0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:22.559
<v Speaker 2>of the Road. It was a smash. It went to

0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.960
<v Speaker 2>number one and stayed there for thirteen weeks, tying the

0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.680
<v Speaker 2>record set by Whitney Houston's I Will Always Love You.

0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Boys to Men really leveled up with End of the Road.

0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Their second album had the single I'll Make Love to You,

0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.400
<v Speaker 2>which broke Whitney Houston and Boys to Men's own record

0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:42.080
<v Speaker 2>by staying at number one for fourteen weeks. That album

0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.880
<v Speaker 2>sold twenty million copies. And I don't know why this is,

0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and it's not really pertinent to the sudden impact story,

0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.120
<v Speaker 2>and maybe it's part of what he doesn't want to

0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.160
<v Speaker 2>talk about anymore. But Michael Bivens isn't listed in the

0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.840
<v Speaker 2>credits for that second Boys to Men album anywhere.

0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Because this round about the time when there's second Boys

0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:02.800
<v Speaker 1>and Men's second album came out and sold like twenty

0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.960
<v Speaker 1>something million copies, and so things started slowing up. I

0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.840
<v Speaker 1>really don't understand. I can't really speak on why things

0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.320
<v Speaker 1>started slowing up when we knowsed it, but we still

0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.160
<v Speaker 1>kept working. We would call Michael and I'm asking, when's

0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.559
<v Speaker 1>the next time you gonna call chet send us out

0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.439
<v Speaker 1>to la or put us in the studio, And sometimes

0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:23.679
<v Speaker 1>we would get a call and sometimes not. He would

0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.360
<v Speaker 1>say that I'm working on something for y'all right now.

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:28.280
<v Speaker 3>Then we finally got in touch with them.

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:29.760
<v Speaker 1>He said, look, I'm gonna let you all go from

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.640
<v Speaker 1>your contracts, blah blah. So we're getting more seasoned with

0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.760
<v Speaker 1>writing songs and producing songs, so every day we would

0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:38.440
<v Speaker 1>build our studio.

0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Listen to what he does there. Tim Bird is talking

0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.960
<v Speaker 2>about being let go from BIV ten Records, a massive disappointment,

0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.040
<v Speaker 2>and he just glides right past it. A three year

0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.560
<v Speaker 2>journey of high hopes, major labels, big expectations of pop

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 2>stardom gets dashed in a single phone call, and Tim

0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.200
<v Speaker 2>doesn't dwell on it for a second in his memory.

0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.840
<v Speaker 2>The guys just get right back to work. That is

0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.360
<v Speaker 2>called resilience, and that resilience is going to serve them

0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:04.600
<v Speaker 2>well in this next chapter.

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:06.199
<v Speaker 1>And so I think it was like a year or

0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.520
<v Speaker 1>two later, or this was in ninety five when everything

0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:10.760
<v Speaker 1>just went crazy.

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.280
<v Speaker 2>So it's nineteen ninety five. Hoody in the Blowfish's Cracked

0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Rear View is the number one album of the year.

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Mariah Carey sells twenty million copies of her album Daydream.

0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.520
<v Speaker 2>The Rolling Stones are on their Voodoo Lounge comeback tour.

0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 2>Coolio wins Best Rap Performance for Gangster's Paradise, while Will

0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Smith finishes the entire run of Fresh Prince of bel

0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.240
<v Speaker 2>Air and moves on to Independence Day. I'm going to

0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.280
<v Speaker 2>bring Aaron Kane back into the mix now and let

0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.440
<v Speaker 2>the two of them tell you what happened next. And

0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:41.680
<v Speaker 2>as a heads up, he's going to name some new

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 2>jack swing artists from the nineties who if you don't

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:45.840
<v Speaker 2>know them, you will want to look them up.

0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:52.680
<v Speaker 4>So now here we are in Newport News, sitting there

0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.600
<v Speaker 4>and don't have no deal. Don't have no deal. We're

0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 4>I mean, we're constantly working on demos, and so we

0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 4>know that Teddy Riley is in Virginia Beach. Teddy Riley

0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.040
<v Speaker 4>had the Future Studios in Virginia Beach where Michael Jackson

0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 4>recorded dangerous albums.

0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 5>Guys is popping, Guys.

0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:24.720
<v Speaker 4>Is doing their stuff there, Black Streets down there, Black

0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.480
<v Speaker 4>Street is doing crazy stuff.

0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Guy and Black Street. If you are hearing those names

0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.160
<v Speaker 2>for the first time right now, look him up. Listen

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.320
<v Speaker 2>to Let's Chill or Before I Let You Go or

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Groove Me. You can thank me later. Teddy Riley is

0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.560
<v Speaker 2>a member of both of those groups and he's their

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.600
<v Speaker 2>producer and he is really having a moment as he

0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.240
<v Speaker 2>heard Michael Jackson is working with him. That is the

0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 2>ultimate seal of approval. At the time, white guys are

0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.200
<v Speaker 2>looking for a label, for a manager, for anything, so

0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.880
<v Speaker 2>they do what's worked before. They put themselves in front

0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.040
<v Speaker 2>of a very important person and they ask.

0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 5>I think maybe Tim A todb went up there.

0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:04.560
<v Speaker 4>They they contacted somebody going into the Future Studios and

0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.280
<v Speaker 4>it ends up being a guy named Leon Silver's the Third.

0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.920
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if you remember a group from the

0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.800
<v Speaker 4>Silvers back in the seventies.

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:22.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah as Wyle, right, yes, yeah yeah. Are they Hotline?

0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes Hot Yeah? Okay, yeah yeah yeah.

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:33.440
<v Speaker 4>Well Leon is like Leon Silver's the Third. He is

0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:38.400
<v Speaker 4>a great producer, great songwriter. He actually did Janet Jackson's

0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.920
<v Speaker 4>first album. Well at the time, he was at Future

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:48.480
<v Speaker 4>Studios working with Teddy Riley on some stuff. He actually

0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:53.400
<v Speaker 4>did before I Let You Go by Black Street, Before

0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:56.200
<v Speaker 4>You Go.

0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:04.560
<v Speaker 5>Can I Get Good Nun? He he did that.

0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:06.520
<v Speaker 2>I love these musical interludes.

0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.280
<v Speaker 4>That's one of my favorite songs of all time. I

0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:17.520
<v Speaker 4>love that song, Dave Hollister saying that. But anyway, so

0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:23.240
<v Speaker 4>I think the story is is that Tim walked into

0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:28.720
<v Speaker 4>Future Studios one time and ran into Leon and had

0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.520
<v Speaker 4>a conversation with him, maybe gave him a demo tape

0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:35.359
<v Speaker 4>or whatever. He heard some of our stuff and he

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.840
<v Speaker 4>was like, guys, why don't you guys come by my

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:44.040
<v Speaker 4>house and start recording with me. Now, at the time,

0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:49.159
<v Speaker 4>I'm twenty one, twenty two. I don't know who the

0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:54.199
<v Speaker 4>hell Leon Silvers is, you know, I don't know who yet.

0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.720
<v Speaker 4>He's just some old guy. Would dreads to me, and

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:01.639
<v Speaker 4>I say old. He was probably his forties at the time.

0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.919
<v Speaker 2>And like any good old guy in his forties, Leon

0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:06.640
<v Speaker 2>Silver's the third ran a tight ship.

0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.600
<v Speaker 5>We go to his house every day. We would get up.

0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.200
<v Speaker 4>He was an early bird, and we would get up

0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.879
<v Speaker 4>at like six seven o'clock in the morning, be at

0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.240
<v Speaker 4>his house in the morning at eight o'clock in the morning,

0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 4>and record at his house on reel to reel. He

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.280
<v Speaker 4>had real to reel. That's what we were recording.

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.560
<v Speaker 2>That's standard old guy behavior. The guys write four more

0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.119
<v Speaker 2>songs and record demos for them, and because they're not

0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.040
<v Speaker 2>on a label anymore, not getting a stipend or weekend

0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.439
<v Speaker 2>trips to Disney World, they're having to figure out how

0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.920
<v Speaker 2>to feed themselves. How are you earning money during all

0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:42.240
<v Speaker 2>of this?

0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:47.679
<v Speaker 1>I got a regular job. Yeah, Aaron and them Aaron them.

0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.520
<v Speaker 1>They got jobs. Everybody got jobs. And then whenever we

0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.560
<v Speaker 1>would finish work, we will always go to the studio.

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.240
<v Speaker 1>So it was like work, work, work, work. We would

0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.040
<v Speaker 1>stay in the studio. So even if I had to

0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.280
<v Speaker 1>be at work at nine o'clock in the morning, stand

0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.679
<v Speaker 1>a studio till six o'clock in the morning and still

0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.000
<v Speaker 1>at least get an our sleep to go to work.

0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:06.920
<v Speaker 2>What was work at that time?

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:11.120
<v Speaker 3>It was? What was that time? It was sprint.

0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 2>Tim is working at a Sprint store. And meanwhile Boys

0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.679
<v Speaker 2>to Men are blowing up. As I told you, End

0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.640
<v Speaker 2>of the Road goes to number one and stays there

0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.320
<v Speaker 2>for thirteen weeks. I'll Make Love to You, from their

0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.440
<v Speaker 2>second album, stays at number one for fourteen weeks until

0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:28.000
<v Speaker 2>it gets replaced by On Bendney, another Boys to Men's song,

0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Boys to Men Are Dominating, and Tommy Montola, the CEO

0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.600
<v Speaker 2>of Columbia Records and husband of Mariah Carey, makes Boys

0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.159
<v Speaker 2>to Men the same kind of deal Motown once gave

0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:39.040
<v Speaker 2>to Michael Bivens.

0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.919
<v Speaker 4>Tommy Bettola said, listen, guys, if you guys do a

0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 4>song with Mariah, I'll give you your own label deal. Right,

0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.880
<v Speaker 4>So they did the song you Know Went to the Moon.

0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.800
<v Speaker 2>The song Boys to Men do with Mariah Carey is

0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.840
<v Speaker 2>called One Sweet Day. It goes to number one and

0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:09.520
<v Speaker 2>stays there for sixteen weeks. They have now broken their

0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:13.280
<v Speaker 2>own record for longest running number one single twice, and

0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.639
<v Speaker 2>this third record stands until Old Town Road breaks it

0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 2>nearly twenty five years later.

0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.959
<v Speaker 4>So they got their own label deal off of that

0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.840
<v Speaker 4>song called Stone Creek Records Sudden Impact.

0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Who I should be calling white guys right now? And

0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.120
<v Speaker 2>I keep trying, but I guess my body doesn't want

0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.200
<v Speaker 2>to have a pre existing relationship with Boys to Men

0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.120
<v Speaker 2>having been in their debut video. So once again they

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.159
<v Speaker 2>go on a road trip to try to get some attention,

0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.240
<v Speaker 2>but this time they have songs.

0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:44.520
<v Speaker 1>It was Aaron Nole and Todd went to Richmond, Virginia

0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:49.240
<v Speaker 1>to see Boys the Men and Jodasy perform do that concert,

0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:53.000
<v Speaker 1>and they ran into Mike McCarey, the one who left

0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:54.919
<v Speaker 1>Boys the Men, the one with the back problems, the

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:55.639
<v Speaker 1>bass voice.

0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:58.040
<v Speaker 3>They ran into him at the arena.

0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:01.320
<v Speaker 1>And we had the demos at that We had all

0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.680
<v Speaker 1>of our songs on tape, and they were really good

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.879
<v Speaker 1>because we were halfway working with Teddy Riley too a

0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:12.680
<v Speaker 1>little bit indirectly, yep, indirectly, And so Mike McCarey heard

0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.560
<v Speaker 1>the songs, He's like, we're about to start our own

0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 1>label called Stone Creek. Won't you guys come sign with us?

0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:20.800
<v Speaker 1>And that's how we got the Stone Creek.

0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:25.840
<v Speaker 4>So now here we are in another label situation, and

0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.280
<v Speaker 4>Stone Creek is a part of Sony Records. So now

0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:35.640
<v Speaker 4>Boys of Men moves us up to Philly. That's how

0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.120
<v Speaker 4>I'm in the spot where I'm at now in Jersey.

0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:43.400
<v Speaker 4>In ninety seven, they move us up to Philadelphia, put

0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:51.359
<v Speaker 4>us up in this amazing apartment complex in Germantown, Philadelphia.

0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:51.560
<v Speaker 3>Big apartment.

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:53.960
<v Speaker 1>It was like the apartment was sort of like you

0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:57.080
<v Speaker 1>and the TV showed different strokes. Yeah, yeah, the house

0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.600
<v Speaker 1>but without the stairs. But that's how big it was. Yeah,

0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:03.920
<v Speaker 1>we all, all six of us, stayed there for two

0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:08.080
<v Speaker 1>years and we banged out songs. Because Boys Men ended

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:12.960
<v Speaker 1>up buying Will Smith's old studio in Gladwin, Pennsylvania.

0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:16.600
<v Speaker 5>So they signed us, and they signed another artist. His

0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.640
<v Speaker 5>name is Uncle Sam. Oh no, if you know who

0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:21.040
<v Speaker 5>Uncle Sam is.

0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.200
<v Speaker 2>We're fresh my memory. That sounds sort of familiar.

0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:26.760
<v Speaker 5>I Don't Never Want to See You?

0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Uncle Sam's I Don't Ever Want to See You

0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.200
<v Speaker 2>Again went to number six on the Billboard charts. And

0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:37.919
<v Speaker 2>I love it when Aaron Kine sings to me. So

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.520
<v Speaker 2>the guys are on their third label. They're finally getting

0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:42.720
<v Speaker 2>to work on an album in a world where R

0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.640
<v Speaker 2>and B vocal groups are selling crazy amounts of CDs.

0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:48.720
<v Speaker 2>They start to work even harder. And this is the

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:51.040
<v Speaker 2>mid nineties by now, so I have to ask, is

0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:52.119
<v Speaker 2>there choreography?

0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:57.120
<v Speaker 4>It's funny that you say that, because that was a

0:22:57.119 --> 0:22:58.160
<v Speaker 4>problem for us.

0:22:58.320 --> 0:22:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Really.

0:22:59.119 --> 0:22:59.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:04.919
<v Speaker 4>Everybody wanted us to be dancers and be dancers like

0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:09.560
<v Speaker 4>new kids on the block and new addition, and we

0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:14.439
<v Speaker 4>just weren't into the dance. And man, we just like

0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:18.080
<v Speaker 4>that wasn't something that we were passionate about. You know,

0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:22.159
<v Speaker 4>like we didn't want to dance. We just wanted to

0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:27.439
<v Speaker 4>record songs, sing songs and come out and sing to

0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:31.000
<v Speaker 4>the latens like that. That's what we wanted to do.

0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Some dancing was expected, it was.

0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:38.760
<v Speaker 4>It was at that time, and everybody was like, come on, guys,

0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:40.080
<v Speaker 4>you guys got to dance.

0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:43.359
<v Speaker 2>With Stone Creek Records, the guys get a new start

0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:46.200
<v Speaker 2>a new attitude and a new name.

0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:51.200
<v Speaker 3>Another name change. Yes, this is crazy Yanye from Boys

0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:51.719
<v Speaker 3>to Men.

0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:54.119
<v Speaker 1>He liked the way they look, and plus he was

0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:57.040
<v Speaker 1>a fan of the movie The Outsiders, and he said,

0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:00.240
<v Speaker 1>you know what we should call you, Guys to Outsiders, said,

0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:01.960
<v Speaker 1>I just got finished watching the movie the other day,

0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:03.960
<v Speaker 1>he said, Plus, some of y'all looked like one of

0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:08.320
<v Speaker 1>the characters and the Alzheizers Ciders. So we're going to

0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.760
<v Speaker 1>give each one of y'all the same nickname, pony Boy all.

0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:13.760
<v Speaker 3>This that young. Yeah, that was a great idea.

0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:17.760
<v Speaker 2>So Too Special became Sudden Impact, which became White Guys,

0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:21.240
<v Speaker 2>which became the Outsiders. It's hard enough to get any

0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:23.800
<v Speaker 2>kind of momentum going in the music industry without your

0:24:23.880 --> 0:24:27.240
<v Speaker 2>name changing every five minutes. But the guys keep pushing forward.

0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:34.800
<v Speaker 4>So anyway, so we're recording at Sony and Boys of

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:39.400
<v Speaker 4>Men ends up putting out Uncle Sam first. So here

0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:43.920
<v Speaker 4>we get bumped again and Dave, are songs.

0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:45.240
<v Speaker 5>That we were recording there.

0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:48.320
<v Speaker 4>We had actually some songs with boys and men singing,

0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:52.080
<v Speaker 4>some backgrounds with us, and I mean the songs that

0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:57.200
<v Speaker 4>we were doing there were just beautiful, beautiful songs and

0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:00.879
<v Speaker 4>they choose to put out I don't never want to

0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:05.280
<v Speaker 4>see you again. Uncle Sam put his album out. They

0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:08.640
<v Speaker 4>put Uncle Sam's album out, and guess what happens after that?

0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you actually want me to guess?

0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:11.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:12.840
<v Speaker 2>Did they drop you?

0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:15.000
<v Speaker 5>The label goes under?

0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:21.600
<v Speaker 4>Oh god, Tommy Battola ends up dropping Stone Creek after

0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:24.400
<v Speaker 4>the Uncle Sam album comes out.

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:26.240
<v Speaker 5>So here we are again.

0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:31.080
<v Speaker 4>Now we've just been through all of this and here

0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:36.360
<v Speaker 4>we are again with no record deal again.

0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 2>So how can that be? He's the boys de Man

0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:44.560
<v Speaker 2>m Riah Carey have the longest running number one of

0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:47.800
<v Speaker 2>all time up to that time, right right, huge, So

0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:51.120
<v Speaker 2>they've got they've done, end of the road. They've done.

0:25:51.200 --> 0:25:55.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they're they're huge. They get offered a label deal,

0:25:55.320 --> 0:25:58.320
<v Speaker 2>they signed two people. Was it just Tommy Mottola saying

0:25:58.359 --> 0:25:59.920
<v Speaker 2>like I gave you what I said I was gonna

0:25:59.920 --> 0:26:01.240
<v Speaker 2>ge you and now I don't want to pay attention

0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:02.959
<v Speaker 2>to this anymore or what happened?

0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:08.280
<v Speaker 4>I think I think it was something internal that that

0:26:08.359 --> 0:26:12.679
<v Speaker 4>we really don't know about. I think it's something internal

0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:15.040
<v Speaker 4>between Poison Men and Tommy Mattola.

0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:15.920
<v Speaker 5>That's what I think.

0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:19.479
<v Speaker 4>I couldn't believe the phone call when we got the

0:26:19.480 --> 0:26:25.399
<v Speaker 4>phone call that the label is folding, and now you

0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:28.640
<v Speaker 4>guys got to go back to Virginia again. I mean,

0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:30.879
<v Speaker 4>we were just devastating Stone Creek.

0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:33.760
<v Speaker 2>The whole label just straight up folds. The guys are

0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.560
<v Speaker 2>back to square one yet again. But at least this

0:26:36.640 --> 0:26:39.440
<v Speaker 2>time they've made some proper recordings. What happened to the

0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:41.639
<v Speaker 2>music that was recorded for Stone Creek?

0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:45.359
<v Speaker 1>We still got it, Yeah, yeah, we still got it.

0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:48.240
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of dated though, but yeah, we still got it.

0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:50.679
<v Speaker 1>I remember, because remember, you gotta understand this one thing.

0:26:50.680 --> 0:26:52.320
<v Speaker 3>A lot of people don't remember.

0:26:52.960 --> 0:26:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Sun Impact was supposed to be the next new kids

0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:55.920
<v Speaker 1>on the block.

0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:57.600
<v Speaker 3>So with all these.

0:26:57.400 --> 0:26:59.760
<v Speaker 1>Deals we were going through in between, that left it

0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:03.919
<v Speaker 1>all open for back Street Boys and and Sync you know,

0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:07.120
<v Speaker 1>to come through. So we weren't trying to be like them.

0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:09.160
<v Speaker 1>We were trying to be a little more edgy. I'll say,

0:27:09.240 --> 0:27:12.760
<v Speaker 1>like a comparison between Jodasy and Boys to Men, you

0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:15.240
<v Speaker 1>know what I mean, a little more edgy.

0:27:15.680 --> 0:27:17.879
<v Speaker 2>So at least they still have their music from back then.

0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Kind of the songs are on four Match that I

0:27:20.840 --> 0:27:22.879
<v Speaker 1>really can't transfer because I don't have the machines for

0:27:22.920 --> 0:27:25.119
<v Speaker 1>them anymore, which really sucks.

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so they're just sitting there in a hard drive.

0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:32.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, not even a hard drive will tape, Oh my god.

0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:33.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah.

0:27:33.760 --> 0:27:36.760
<v Speaker 1>Them studio tapes, you know, like even whenever people are

0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:38.880
<v Speaker 1>doing radio, the little small little tapes that you put

0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:41.639
<v Speaker 1>in Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah a a's or whatever

0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:42.280
<v Speaker 1>you used to call it.

0:27:43.119 --> 0:27:45.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's almost nothing you can do with that.

0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Anymore now unless that I can hold it up to

0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:49.440
<v Speaker 1>the light and see if I can see the music notes.

0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:52.680
<v Speaker 3>But other than that, yeah, that's great.

0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:57.879
<v Speaker 2>So the frustration of that never coming out. Did that

0:27:58.000 --> 0:28:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Did you see that wearing on on them? On yourself?

0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:02.200
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:28:02.240 --> 0:28:04.080
<v Speaker 3>I think I don't think.

0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:04.639
<v Speaker 2>I know.

0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:06.800
<v Speaker 1>I didn't feel that way. I was just too determined.

0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:10.159
<v Speaker 1>I knew a couple of the guys were determined. I

0:28:10.200 --> 0:28:13.760
<v Speaker 1>think that I say Alan and Todd, who were like

0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:17.680
<v Speaker 1>the closest, they were also determined. Aaron and No they

0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:20.639
<v Speaker 1>were determined, but they were just they just wanted to

0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:24.120
<v Speaker 1>move on for something else. But they still was determined

0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:27.199
<v Speaker 1>to do music. But it was frustrating. We did a

0:28:27.200 --> 0:28:29.520
<v Speaker 1>lot of songs with boys, the men, went to a

0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:33.439
<v Speaker 1>lot of parties, and then in nineteen ninety seven it

0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:34.040
<v Speaker 1>all stop.

0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:37.119
<v Speaker 2>So Sudden Impact got signed at the time of New

0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Kids on the Block. They kept writing and recording demos

0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:42.200
<v Speaker 2>through the years when a boy band was pop music

0:28:42.240 --> 0:28:45.840
<v Speaker 2>poison and then parted ways at the exact moment boy

0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:49.400
<v Speaker 2>bands became big again with the right label. With any

0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:52.280
<v Speaker 2>consistent label or name, they could have had their moment.

0:28:52.640 --> 0:28:56.800
<v Speaker 2>The timing was just always exactly off. So what does

0:28:56.800 --> 0:28:57.360
<v Speaker 2>that feel like?

0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:01.080
<v Speaker 3>Like a letdown? I said, we're going to find something else,

0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:03.840
<v Speaker 3>you know, and went home.

0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:09.600
<v Speaker 1>And that's when we started having that being upset at

0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:13.080
<v Speaker 1>each other because everybody wanted to control everything because we

0:29:13.120 --> 0:29:16.800
<v Speaker 1>had gotten better with recording writing songs. So what I

0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 1>want to write too? I want to write too. And

0:29:19.800 --> 0:29:21.560
<v Speaker 1>the majority of the writing was me and me and Todd.

0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:24.360
<v Speaker 1>We were like Leonard and McCartney. We were throwing them

0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:27.880
<v Speaker 1>out and so we started writing, and then everybody would

0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:31.480
<v Speaker 1>get frustrated because one didn't want to come to the

0:29:31.520 --> 0:29:37.320
<v Speaker 1>studio anymore, or somebody girlfriend they had to go see them,

0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 1>or just had to focus.

0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:40.680
<v Speaker 3>Was starting to wane a little bit.

0:29:41.200 --> 0:29:45.440
<v Speaker 1>And I think what happened Aaron Aaron and Know they

0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:49.160
<v Speaker 1>wanted to do darker songs than what we were doing,

0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:51.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, sort of like a jobasy and this, that

0:29:51.800 --> 0:29:54.560
<v Speaker 1>and the other. So one time we had a meeting

0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:57.520
<v Speaker 1>and Aaron and Knows said we're going to start our

0:29:57.520 --> 0:29:58.000
<v Speaker 1>own band.

0:29:58.800 --> 0:30:01.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, No Love Loss.

0:30:02.160 --> 0:30:04.800
<v Speaker 2>The Cane Brothers split off to start another vocal group

0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:07.920
<v Speaker 2>with their friend Donnie Evans, which they called DNA for

0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Donnie Noel Aaron the Outsiders fill the open positions with

0:30:11.800 --> 0:30:15.400
<v Speaker 2>two new guys, Jimmy Marble and Jason Dowdy. And he

0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:17.040
<v Speaker 2>won't be surprised by what happens next.

0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:19.560
<v Speaker 1>We found two more members to add to the group

0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:21.920
<v Speaker 1>and then called them Outsiders for Life.

0:30:22.080 --> 0:30:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that is right. So just to review, two Special

0:30:24.920 --> 0:30:28.520
<v Speaker 2>became Sudden Impact became White Guys became the Outsiders became

0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Outsiders for Life. And it is a Z instead of

0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:34.160
<v Speaker 2>an S at the end of Outsiders, and the four

0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:36.600
<v Speaker 2>is a number four. It's an eye in life, though

0:30:36.640 --> 0:30:40.200
<v Speaker 2>it's not a why they exercised some restraint. It's two

0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:43.640
<v Speaker 2>thousand by now. Insincts No Strings Attached is the number

0:30:43.680 --> 0:30:46.840
<v Speaker 2>one album of the year. Mariah Carey is filming Glitter.

0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:50.160
<v Speaker 2>The Rolling Stones are playing smaller venues on their No

0:30:50.280 --> 0:30:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Security Comeback Tour. Eminem wins Best Rap Performance for My

0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Name Is, and Will Smith recovers from the failure of

0:30:57.720 --> 0:31:02.320
<v Speaker 2>the movie Wild Wild West with the album Willennium Outsider's

0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:05.600
<v Speaker 2>four Life recorded an album in two thousand for Blackground Records,

0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:09.360
<v Speaker 2>a Leah's label. It was never released. Aaron's new project,

0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:12.280
<v Speaker 2>DNA didn't get too much traction either, and his brother

0:31:12.360 --> 0:31:14.600
<v Speaker 2>Noel and his old friends in such an impact or

0:31:14.640 --> 0:31:17.160
<v Speaker 2>whatever you're calling them in your head right now all

0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:18.240
<v Speaker 2>went home to Virginia.

0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:23.719
<v Speaker 4>So from there, everybody else went back to Virginia. I

0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:26.800
<v Speaker 4>didn't go back to Virginia because I met a girl

0:31:26.840 --> 0:31:30.720
<v Speaker 4>here in South Jersey, and when that whole thing happened,

0:31:30.760 --> 0:31:32.880
<v Speaker 4>I actually met her at a Boys of Man concert.

0:31:32.920 --> 0:31:34.200
<v Speaker 5>That's funny perfect.

0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Aaron stayed behind with his new girlfriend, who would become

0:31:37.160 --> 0:31:39.800
<v Speaker 2>his wife, and he started a solo career under his

0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:44.320
<v Speaker 2>own name on another new label, Invigorator Records. Flash forward

0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:46.720
<v Speaker 2>to two thousand and six. The number one album of

0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:49.360
<v Speaker 2>the year is the soundtrack to the Disney Channel original

0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:52.640
<v Speaker 2>movie High School Musical Mariah Carey is Back with the

0:31:52.680 --> 0:31:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Emancipation of Mimi. The Rolling Stones are in the middle

0:31:55.760 --> 0:31:59.280
<v Speaker 2>of there a Bigger Bang Comeback Tour. Kanye West wins

0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Best Rap Perform Moments for gold Digger, Will Smith does

0:32:02.480 --> 0:32:05.520
<v Speaker 2>The Pursuit of Happiness, gets nominated for an Oscar and

0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:08.720
<v Speaker 2>in his old NBC Monday night time slot, a new

0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:13.000
<v Speaker 2>show debuts. It's called Heroes. It stars Hayden Pantier, who,

0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:15.320
<v Speaker 2>when we started this story back in nineteen eighty nine

0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:19.440
<v Speaker 2>was not born yet. Aaron Kane releases a solo single

0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:20.400
<v Speaker 2>called got a Love.

0:32:26.760 --> 0:32:31.440
<v Speaker 4>My song called Gota Love went to number seven.

0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:35.800
<v Speaker 5>On the R and B charts in two thousand and five, so.

0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:41.720
<v Speaker 4>Maybe made some significant amount of money, you know, with that.

0:32:41.840 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 4>We sold three hundred thousand copies of that independently, so

0:32:47.560 --> 0:32:51.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, that was very lucrative for us, and you know,

0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:58.240
<v Speaker 4>got to buy house and buy stuff. And so after that,

0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:04.440
<v Speaker 4>I did an album with them, Let That Out, did

0:33:04.480 --> 0:33:07.920
<v Speaker 4>pretty good, and then that.

0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Label folded Geez because the two of them had always

0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:15.800
<v Speaker 2>had a good relationship. Aaron and Tim reunited.

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:22.320
<v Speaker 4>Me and him have been working on independent artists.

0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:24.600
<v Speaker 5>We do TV and film now.

0:33:25.320 --> 0:33:28.440
<v Speaker 4>Like I have a bunch of artists myself that I

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:29.200
<v Speaker 4>deal with.

0:33:29.800 --> 0:33:32.520
<v Speaker 5>I still put out my own albums.

0:33:32.560 --> 0:33:35.800
<v Speaker 4>I just put out two new albums in the last

0:33:36.520 --> 0:33:40.800
<v Speaker 4>six months. One called Confused and another one called Love

0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:45.800
<v Speaker 4>Receipts that me and Tim produced all ourselves.

0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:47.440
<v Speaker 5>And we do TV and film.

0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:52.320
<v Speaker 4>We do stuff for independent artists, working on stuff for

0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:54.560
<v Speaker 4>Casey from Jobsee.

0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:57.200
<v Speaker 5>I just did a song with his niece.

0:33:58.200 --> 0:34:05.200
<v Speaker 4>I love letting out albums because I truly am an artist.

0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:08.920
<v Speaker 5>At heart, you know what I mean, Like that's where.

0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:12.160
<v Speaker 4>I came from from when I was seventeen eight years

0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:13.279
<v Speaker 4>eighteen years.

0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:14.839
<v Speaker 5>Old, Like that's what I did.

0:34:15.120 --> 0:34:20.239
<v Speaker 4>And what I love about doing music is that you

0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:25.560
<v Speaker 4>start with a blank canvas and you start with silence,

0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:30.319
<v Speaker 4>and at the end of the song you end up

0:34:30.360 --> 0:34:37.680
<v Speaker 4>with organized sounds and organized vocals and emotions, and and

0:34:37.719 --> 0:34:41.320
<v Speaker 4>then after you get done producing the song and mixing

0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:47.000
<v Speaker 4>down the song, it's like, wow, look what I have.

0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Look what I have, creative created.

0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:52.560
<v Speaker 5>Life, you know.

0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:57.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's just it's just a great feeling, you know,

0:34:57.320 --> 0:34:58.440
<v Speaker 4>after you get done.

0:34:59.000 --> 0:35:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Right. But it's been you know, the path was a

0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:07.319
<v Speaker 2>winding one to this point, and there were a lot

0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:11.799
<v Speaker 2>of a lot of moments that just didn't didn't pan

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:13.040
<v Speaker 2>out well.

0:35:13.120 --> 0:35:19.520
<v Speaker 4>Of course, I would have loved to be a multi

0:35:20.239 --> 0:35:25.319
<v Speaker 4>platinum selling group, you know, I mean, I mean, that's

0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:28.920
<v Speaker 4>That's why when you're a little kid, you get in

0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:33.000
<v Speaker 4>to this industry because that's what you want, you know.

0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:39.520
<v Speaker 4>But I'm truly blessed that I've been blessed with a

0:35:39.680 --> 0:35:45.880
<v Speaker 4>talent that I can, like, I'll be seventy years old

0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:46.919
<v Speaker 4>producing the track.

0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:51.120
<v Speaker 2>You know, despite everything, Aaron Kane is in it for

0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:53.680
<v Speaker 2>the long haul and Tim Byrd feels the same way.

0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Are you happy that you took the ride?

0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:59.640
<v Speaker 3>Yes, very happy. I'm happy for the age talk about

0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:00.040
<v Speaker 3>you said the.

0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:02.439
<v Speaker 2>Ride right, just the whole whole thing.

0:36:02.560 --> 0:36:07.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was experienced. It allowed me to grow, you know,

0:36:07.320 --> 0:36:10.960
<v Speaker 1>That's why I love it. I enjoy it and and

0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:14.920
<v Speaker 1>actually prepares you for downtime whenever nothing's going on. You

0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:18.919
<v Speaker 1>don't stress out. You don't want to feel like you're

0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:20.880
<v Speaker 1>a nobody or anything like that.

0:36:20.920 --> 0:36:22.279
<v Speaker 3>But as I love it.

0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how do you think the rest of the guys

0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:27.560
<v Speaker 2>felt about it? You said you don't want to feel

0:36:27.560 --> 0:36:29.080
<v Speaker 2>like a nobody? Do you do you think that they

0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:29.960
<v Speaker 2>ever felt that.

0:36:29.920 --> 0:36:32.239
<v Speaker 3>Way during those down times that we had.

0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, I don't think so.

0:36:34.680 --> 0:36:36.799
<v Speaker 3>None of us did. We were just determined. We didn't.

0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:38.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't think we had time to even think about

0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:41.560
<v Speaker 1>being depressed. We were just like, Noah, let's go, let's go,

0:36:41.719 --> 0:36:41.960
<v Speaker 1>let's go.

0:36:42.520 --> 0:36:47.040
<v Speaker 2>You know you mentioned earlier that there that you you're

0:36:47.080 --> 0:36:50.600
<v Speaker 2>not concerned about fame anymore. Is there? Do you remember

0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:54.120
<v Speaker 2>a moment where you were like, that's I'm finished with

0:36:54.200 --> 0:36:55.320
<v Speaker 2>that pursuit now.

0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:59.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, early on, I think round about when I was with.

0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:03.360
<v Speaker 1>And being around that time period, and you get to

0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:07.040
<v Speaker 1>watch how other people respond to whatever success or lack thereof,

0:37:07.560 --> 0:37:09.680
<v Speaker 1>and you don't. I started to say, I said, I

0:37:09.680 --> 0:37:11.759
<v Speaker 1>don't want to be like that person. I believe that

0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:14.319
<v Speaker 1>we got it back in those days, I think we

0:37:14.320 --> 0:37:15.000
<v Speaker 1>would have been broke.

0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:17.359
<v Speaker 2>Now, talk me through what that looks like to you.

0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:21.520
<v Speaker 2>What you mean like the scenario in which Sudden Impact

0:37:21.560 --> 0:37:22.920
<v Speaker 2>had released a huge record.

0:37:23.160 --> 0:37:25.600
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, they released a huge record.

0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:28.600
<v Speaker 1>Be great for that time period, but remember music started

0:37:28.680 --> 0:37:29.319
<v Speaker 1>changing too.

0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:31.480
<v Speaker 3>How are we going to keep up with the change?

0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:34.239
<v Speaker 1>And when you're in front of the crowd, it's hard

0:37:34.239 --> 0:37:36.560
<v Speaker 1>for you to make that transition with music changes. We

0:37:36.560 --> 0:37:40.040
<v Speaker 1>were underneath the radar. Even though they were into videos,

0:37:40.560 --> 0:37:43.440
<v Speaker 1>they were still under the radar, so they had the

0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:46.200
<v Speaker 1>ability to grow when music was changing.

0:37:46.640 --> 0:37:50.439
<v Speaker 2>What's the guy's relationship with each other now? The five

0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:52.359
<v Speaker 2>of them, the original five.

0:37:53.040 --> 0:37:53.879
<v Speaker 3>Okay, the original five.

0:37:54.080 --> 0:37:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Ok Yeah.

0:37:54.520 --> 0:37:56.560
<v Speaker 1>I talked to Aaron. Me and Aaron talk almost daily,

0:37:57.200 --> 0:37:59.520
<v Speaker 1>so I keep in touch with him. I just talked

0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:02.719
<v Speaker 1>to his brother no on Saturday, so I told him, Yeah,

0:38:02.719 --> 0:38:04.280
<v Speaker 1>I told him about the podcast.

0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:07.040
<v Speaker 3>He said, I really don't know what to say. I said,

0:38:07.080 --> 0:38:09.600
<v Speaker 3>they want to ask you about Sun Impact.

0:38:10.160 --> 0:38:12.239
<v Speaker 1>You know more of the ends than I do. I

0:38:12.360 --> 0:38:15.160
<v Speaker 1>just recorded you guys. Yeah, So I talked to him.

0:38:15.400 --> 0:38:19.160
<v Speaker 1>He's interested in trying to do it. Todd, who started

0:38:19.200 --> 0:38:21.120
<v Speaker 1>the group, Me and him, like I said, we were

0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:25.080
<v Speaker 1>like the Lenna McCartney of the group. And he's still

0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:28.520
<v Speaker 1>a great songwriter. And he's been doing country lately, great crunch.

0:38:29.360 --> 0:38:31.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's doing great with that.

0:38:32.120 --> 0:38:34.440
<v Speaker 3>Dave, who's also in the group, we haven't seen him

0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:36.520
<v Speaker 3>in years, no now.

0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:39.600
<v Speaker 1>I think he wanted to get away from that whole

0:38:39.600 --> 0:38:42.360
<v Speaker 1>thing because he was kind of the quiet one anyway.

0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:48.399
<v Speaker 1>Alan Healey, which is Todd's best friend. Alan Heely, he

0:38:48.440 --> 0:38:50.760
<v Speaker 1>now owns a couple of computer repair stories.

0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:53.799
<v Speaker 3>He doesn't do music anymore. He still listens, but he

0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:54.840
<v Speaker 3>doesn't do music anymore.

0:38:55.440 --> 0:39:00.239
<v Speaker 2>But aside from Dave, everybody still keeps in contact. Yeah,

0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:02.799
<v Speaker 2>so I'm waiting on a reply from Noel Caine, and

0:39:02.840 --> 0:39:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Tim says he's going to put in a good word

0:39:04.680 --> 0:39:07.160
<v Speaker 2>for me with Todd White, who, if all goes well,

0:39:07.200 --> 0:39:09.600
<v Speaker 2>will put me in touch with Alan Healy. So from

0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:13.680
<v Speaker 2>the original lineup of Sudden Impact, that just leaves Dave,

0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:18.000
<v Speaker 2>a man I know only as Dave. No one I've

0:39:18.000 --> 0:39:20.879
<v Speaker 2>spoken to so far has his contact info. But now

0:39:20.920 --> 0:39:23.960
<v Speaker 2>I have four more full names of Sudden Impact members,

0:39:24.640 --> 0:39:26.680
<v Speaker 2>a few more names of Sudden Impact to the group,

0:39:27.040 --> 0:39:30.160
<v Speaker 2>so I can investigate a little more extensively. So I do,

0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:33.879
<v Speaker 2>and I find a lineup for Outsiders for Life. Todd

0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:36.800
<v Speaker 2>White is in there, Alan Healy is in there, plus

0:39:36.800 --> 0:39:39.799
<v Speaker 2>the new guys Jason Dowdy and Jimmy Marble, and the

0:39:39.840 --> 0:39:42.880
<v Speaker 2>fifth member of two specials Sudden Impact White guys, the

0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Outsiders Outsiders for Life. His name is Dave Smith. This

0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:51.840
<v Speaker 2>is going to be harder than I thought. Next time,

0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:54.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to search the world for a Dave Smith,

0:39:54.960 --> 0:39:57.360
<v Speaker 2>and I will talk to someone who tasted success in

0:39:57.400 --> 0:40:00.480
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen nineties and then ran in a brand new direction.

0:40:01.040 --> 0:40:04.320
<v Speaker 2>His story. In the next episode of Waiting for Impact,

0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:13.560
<v Speaker 2>a Dave Holmes Passion Project. This has been an Exactly

0:40:13.640 --> 0:40:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Right production written by me Dave Holmes, produced by Hannah

0:40:18.600 --> 0:40:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Kyle Crichton, recorded, mixed and sound designed by Andrew Epen.

0:40:23.880 --> 0:40:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Additional engineering and assembly by Annalise Nelson. Music by Ben Wise,

0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:34.760
<v Speaker 2>artwork by Garrett Ross Executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia

0:40:34.800 --> 0:40:39.719
<v Speaker 2>hart Starr and Danielle Kramer. Follow the show on Instagram, Facebook,

0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:43.960
<v Speaker 2>and Twitter at exactly right and follow me at Dave Holmes.

0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:48.680
<v Speaker 2>For more information, go to Exactlyrightmedia dot com binge the

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