Speaker 1: I don't know it was meant to happen. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, We weren't meant to have that success
Speaker 1: at that time because I think that I think we
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to hand it.
Speaker 2: That is Tim Bird. He wrote and produced music with
Speaker 2: Sudden Impact, the lost boy band I'm trying to find.
Speaker 2: He was so integral to their sound. Some people call
Speaker 2: him the sixth member of Sudden Impact. I've gotten his
Speaker 2: contact info from Aaron Kane, the lead singer of the group,
Speaker 2: and I'm getting the Sudden Impact story from his perspective,
Speaker 2: and right away I get a brand new piece of information.
Speaker 1: They start a group called Too Special first before they
Speaker 1: became set an Impact.
Speaker 2: Too Special, Yes what I'm saying, too number two to
Speaker 2: oh yeah, okay, Too Special. This is a group who's
Speaker 2: had a lot of ups and downs, a lot of
Speaker 2: record labels and a lot of getting dropped from record labels,
Speaker 2: and as you're about to find out, they've also had
Speaker 2: a lot of names. In this episode, we'll hear more
Speaker 2: of the Sudden Impact story from producer Tim Bird and
Speaker 2: lead singer Aaron Kane. This is Waiting for Impact, a
Speaker 2: Dave Holmes passion project when we left off in the
Speaker 2: last episode, I was trying to get Noel Kane's contact
Speaker 2: info from his brother Aaron finally did get it. I
Speaker 2: have reached out and as of yet, I have not
Speaker 2: heard anything back. But in the meantime, there's another name
Speaker 2: to add to the list of names that this group
Speaker 2: has had. Too Special became Sudden Impact, which became White Guys.
Speaker 2: And not to spoil anything, but that list of names
Speaker 2: is going to get longer. More on that later, but
Speaker 2: for now, tell me how you came to work with
Speaker 2: Sudden Impact.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we all went to high school together. Was that
Speaker 1: I was in a group at the time. We were
Speaker 1: performing original songs and one of the members of Sudden Impact, well,
Speaker 1: they became such a bat, Todd White.
Speaker 3: He wanted to start a group like New Kids on
Speaker 3: the Block.
Speaker 2: It's nineteen eighty nine as this story begins. Bobby Brown's
Speaker 2: Don't Be Cruel is the number one album of the year.
Speaker 2: Mariah Carey is recording her debut album. The Rolling Stones
Speaker 2: are out on their Steel Wheels Comeback Tour. Will Smith
Speaker 2: beats JJ FADD and Cool Mo d to win the
Speaker 2: first ever Best Rap Performance Grammy for Parents. Just Don't understand,
Speaker 2: and he meets with Quincy Jones to develop NBC's The
Speaker 2: Fresh Prince of bel Air. Tim Bird joins Too Special
Speaker 2: as the group's unofficial producer, and here in the present
Speaker 2: he confirms the wildest part of the story.
Speaker 1: So they're out in LA and they're calling us, Hey,
Speaker 1: we just ranted the heavy d. Hey he's randed Stevie
Speaker 1: wonder we thought they were lying. And then they had
Speaker 1: their poster, the two Special poster, right yeah, And they
Speaker 1: run into BIV.
Speaker 3: There's like Michael Bibbins.
Speaker 1: They say, uh, bib our poster and Biff told him
Speaker 1: get that out of my face. Well, was something, you know,
Speaker 1: curse first behind it. Get that out of my face.
Speaker 1: I'm not signing that bleep. And he thought it was
Speaker 1: you can swear feeling.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: He thought it was a poster of new Kids on
Speaker 1: the Block, because remember there was a rivalry between New
Speaker 1: Audition and New Kids on the Block, right Sead back
Speaker 1: in this day, right. So Todd told him said, look, no,
Speaker 1: we're a new group.
Speaker 3: We're stuck out here in LA.
Speaker 1: We have no way to get back home, but would
Speaker 1: you please sign this poster?
Speaker 3: So he signed it. He said a new group. Huh,
Speaker 3: all right, I'm.
Speaker 1: Here's some money for a ticket, plane ticket. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: send you out back to Virginia and wait for a
Speaker 1: call for me in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: So, okay, Aaron told me that I didn't one percent
Speaker 2: believe it. This is actually how it happened. He just
Speaker 2: saw the picture.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, he just saw the pictures.
Speaker 2: Do you do you think that that rivalry between New
Speaker 2: Edition and New Kids on the Block had anything to
Speaker 2: do with why he wanted to sign them.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think so.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Nobody else believes it, but I think so. Okay, I
Speaker 1: think it was like get back, Yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and plus it's a lot of money because New Kids
Speaker 1: on the Box they they made a billion dollars.
Speaker 3: Off of merchandise Alon, right, right, So I think it
Speaker 3: was that.
Speaker 2: Okay, So what happens next?
Speaker 1: What happens next? He calls us in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: We didn't believe them even they came back from La
Speaker 1: Yeah whatever, whatever. Me just working on songs and just
Speaker 1: playing around, and Michael Bivens calls the house and we're talking.
Speaker 1: He said, guys, I'm gonna sign you. Guys, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: send the contracts. They'll be out there by FedEx. They
Speaker 1: we all got the contracts, signed them as artists, signed
Speaker 1: me as a producer, and changed their name to Sudden Impact.
Speaker 2: Right, and why did he change that name?
Speaker 3: He liked the movie Clint Eastwood movie.
Speaker 2: Okay, Sudden Impact was a big movie. It's the one
Speaker 2: that gave the culture go ahead, make my day. I
Speaker 2: was hoping for a better story there, but I will
Speaker 2: take that one. So Sudden Impact all signed their contracts.
Speaker 2: Tim Bird signs his and goes from being the unofficial
Speaker 2: producer to the official producer, and they all plan to
Speaker 2: get busy recording, but before they do, they get their
Speaker 2: big break.
Speaker 1: And the rest is then they came back and ended
Speaker 1: up in the Motown Philly video. Right, that was during
Speaker 1: that same time they end up in the Motown Philly video.
Speaker 2: So by the time they were in the Motown Philly video,
Speaker 2: had had you recorded anything officially for Michael Bibbins yet?
Speaker 1: We had just started Well, actually he hadn't heard it yet,
Speaker 1: that's right, that's right. They didn't have They didn't have
Speaker 1: a finished demo that we could send some because everything
Speaker 1: was moving so fast.
Speaker 2: So they're in the video but they don't have a
Speaker 2: song yet.
Speaker 3: No, not yet.
Speaker 2: Sudden Impact has gotten a major leg up. The video
Speaker 2: is on rotation on all the big music video networks.
Speaker 2: People around the country are seeing it over and over
Speaker 2: and they're waiting to hear music from Sudden Impact. The
Speaker 2: pressure is on. How did that feel for all of
Speaker 2: you getting that kind of boost? How did that feel?
Speaker 3: Oh? I felt I felt great?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I felt like, this is my chance to
Speaker 1: be Michael Jackson.
Speaker 3: But you know, be famous and all that. But what happens.
Speaker 1: I ended up leaving my group to focus solely on
Speaker 1: Sudden Impact.
Speaker 2: What was your band called So Suave? So Suave is
Speaker 2: an awesome name. But this is the point in the
Speaker 2: story when the group that had been called Too Special
Speaker 2: and later was called Sudden Impact is about to be
Speaker 2: called something new.
Speaker 1: After Motown Philly video came out, That's when Bibb started
Speaker 1: marketing and finding other art artists to come into the
Speaker 1: fold of the East Coast Family. Right then and there,
Speaker 1: when he formed the East Coast Family, he changed Sudden.
Speaker 3: Impact to the White Guys.
Speaker 1: Now why because whenever he would do interviews or boys
Speaker 1: and men would do interviews instead of asking questions about
Speaker 1: Michael Bivens BBD or boys to men, they would say, Hey, whatever.
Speaker 3: Happened to them? White guys? There's the video? Yeah and
Speaker 3: so yeah, so big, change the name.
Speaker 2: Change the name to white guys.
Speaker 3: It's spelt like wit gizzies though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've seen them. I've seen them in the
Speaker 2: video for one for all for one. Yes, where they
Speaker 2: are it's w h yt g I z E.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: How did you and how did the guys feel about
Speaker 2: changing your name? For another time?
Speaker 3: Didn't care. We were with Michael Bivens, So.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Michael Bivens. I would love to talk
Speaker 2: to Michael Bivins, but so far he hasn't gotten back
Speaker 2: to me. I've asked I vete Nicole Brown to put
Speaker 2: in a good word for me, because they're still close friends,
Speaker 2: and she has, but so far nothing. I've been thinking
Speaker 2: about it a lot, and I wonder whether he's worried
Speaker 2: that he is going to be the villain of the story.
Speaker 2: And I wonder whether that worries a Vet now that
Speaker 2: she's involved with the show. And if that's the case,
Speaker 2: I would understand his concern and hers, wouldn't you. I mean,
Speaker 2: what if somebody came up to you right now and said,
Speaker 2: I just heard an amazing story about you. How would
Speaker 2: you feel You'd be a little concerned for a minute,
Speaker 2: wouldn't you? Then? What if that person told you I'm
Speaker 2: making a ten episode podcast series about that story. I'm
Speaker 2: talking to all kinds of people who know you in
Speaker 2: conversations that you won't be able to hear until the
Speaker 2: show comes out. I get it. That has got to
Speaker 2: be a scary thing to hear. If it were happening
Speaker 2: to me, I probably wouldn't want to be involved either.
Speaker 2: But a couple things. One, I am not interested in
Speaker 2: assassinating anyone's character, or making a chump out of anyone,
Speaker 2: or ruining anyone's reputation unless their kid Rock because I
Speaker 2: hate that guy. Interesting stories usually don't have clear cut villains.
Speaker 2: And I'm not interested in telling a boring story or
Speaker 2: an easy one. This is a complicated story where everyone
Speaker 2: so far is just doing their best. And Two, no
Speaker 2: matter how the biv ten project turned out, it started
Speaker 2: in the first place because of a trait of Bivins
Speaker 2: that I admire, one that I think is worth celebrating ambition.
Speaker 2: The biv ten project wasn't what he hoped it would be,
Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean it was a bad thing. It
Speaker 2: wasn't the success that he envisioned, but that doesn't make
Speaker 2: it a failure. And most importantly, though he couldn't deliver
Speaker 2: to his artists the fame and fortune that he may
Speaker 2: have implicitly or explicitly promised them, he didn't leave them
Speaker 2: with nothing. Life doesn't work in binaries like that. The
Speaker 2: people I've spoken to so far are mostly not rich
Speaker 2: and mostly not famous, but they are all better off
Speaker 2: for having known and worked with Michael Biffins, and they
Speaker 2: know it. Even if their relationship is strained, they all
Speaker 2: still respect and admire the guy. Tim Bird puts it, well,
Speaker 2: what do you think Michael Bivins thinks of the whole
Speaker 2: BIV ten experience?
Speaker 3: I don't know. Good questions.
Speaker 1: I don't speculate, though, but I don't know. I think
Speaker 1: he thought it was a success, and yeah, think about it,
Speaker 1: he was the first puppy. What puppy ended up doing?
Speaker 1: BIV did it first. Yeah, so I don't know what.
Speaker 1: I don't know if those things behind the scenes that
Speaker 1: went on that we weren't privy to, but I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure he should be He should be pat hisself from
Speaker 1: the back.
Speaker 2: Back to the saga of Sudden Impact. Who I guess
Speaker 2: we should now start calling White Guys. What was the
Speaker 2: sound of White.
Speaker 3: Guys, Salman? White Guys?
Speaker 2: Was?
Speaker 3: I would say it was pop?
Speaker 1: It wasn't as poppy as in Sync or just that.
Speaker 1: And you know a little more soul to it, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know a little more so a little more like uh,
Speaker 1: a soulful group, like closely like what boys.
Speaker 3: Thement was doing. Gotcha, Yeah, that's exactly they had. We
Speaker 3: evolved over the years.
Speaker 2: Though, and they had the time to evolve to catch
Speaker 2: us up. Michael Bivens signed a group called Two Special
Speaker 2: to his three artist production deal at Motown, then change
Speaker 2: their name to Sudden Impact because he liked the Cline
Speaker 2: Eastwood movie. Then signed Sudden Impact to Capitol Records, then
Speaker 2: put Sudden Impact in Boys to Men's debut video, then
Speaker 2: pulled them off Capitol Records to sign them to his
Speaker 2: own label, biv ten Records, a division of Motown, then
Speaker 2: changed their name again to White Guys. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of activity going on around this project, and once again,
Speaker 2: Michael Bivens still has not heard a single song. What
Speaker 2: then happens with white guys. Do you end up in
Speaker 2: the studio at all?
Speaker 1: Well, we started, we had built our own studio at
Speaker 1: Todd's house, so we were always recorded at home, so
Speaker 1: every day we would have songs. And at that time
Speaker 1: there was something going on between I think Boys.
Speaker 3: To Men and Michael Bivens. Not sure.
Speaker 2: Let's dig into that a little bit. Boys to Men's
Speaker 2: debut album, Coolly High Harmony, was executive produced by Michael Bivens,
Speaker 2: and it was a big success. It sold nine million copies.
Speaker 2: It had hits like Motown Philly and It's So Hard
Speaker 2: to Say Goodbye to Yesterday, which would play at high
Speaker 2: school graduation parties for years to come. Boys to Men
Speaker 2: were on their way. In nineteen ninety two, they went
Speaker 2: into the studio with Babyface, one of the most successful
Speaker 2: R and B songwriters and producers of all time. They
Speaker 2: recorded a song for the soundtrack of the Eddie Murphy
Speaker 2: halle Berry romantic comedy Boomerang. That song was called End
Speaker 2: of the Road. It was a smash. It went to
Speaker 2: number one and stayed there for thirteen weeks, tying the
Speaker 2: record set by Whitney Houston's I Will Always Love You.
Speaker 2: Boys to Men really leveled up with End of the Road.
Speaker 2: Their second album had the single I'll Make Love to You,
Speaker 2: which broke Whitney Houston and Boys to Men's own record
Speaker 2: by staying at number one for fourteen weeks. That album
Speaker 2: sold twenty million copies. And I don't know why this is,
Speaker 2: and it's not really pertinent to the sudden impact story,
Speaker 2: and maybe it's part of what he doesn't want to
Speaker 2: talk about anymore. But Michael Bivens isn't listed in the
Speaker 2: credits for that second Boys to Men album anywhere.
Speaker 1: Because this round about the time when there's second Boys
Speaker 1: and Men's second album came out and sold like twenty
Speaker 1: something million copies, and so things started slowing up. I
Speaker 1: really don't understand. I can't really speak on why things
Speaker 1: started slowing up when we knowsed it, but we still
Speaker 1: kept working. We would call Michael and I'm asking, when's
Speaker 1: the next time you gonna call chet send us out
Speaker 1: to la or put us in the studio, And sometimes
Speaker 1: we would get a call and sometimes not. He would
Speaker 1: say that I'm working on something for y'all right now.
Speaker 3: Then we finally got in touch with them.
Speaker 1: He said, look, I'm gonna let you all go from
Speaker 1: your contracts, blah blah. So we're getting more seasoned with
Speaker 1: writing songs and producing songs, so every day we would
Speaker 1: build our studio.
Speaker 2: Listen to what he does there. Tim Bird is talking
Speaker 2: about being let go from BIV ten Records, a massive disappointment,
Speaker 2: and he just glides right past it. A three year
Speaker 2: journey of high hopes, major labels, big expectations of pop
Speaker 2: stardom gets dashed in a single phone call, and Tim
Speaker 2: doesn't dwell on it for a second in his memory.
Speaker 2: The guys just get right back to work. That is
Speaker 2: called resilience, and that resilience is going to serve them
Speaker 2: well in this next chapter.
Speaker 1: And so I think it was like a year or
Speaker 1: two later, or this was in ninety five when everything
Speaker 1: just went crazy.
Speaker 2: So it's nineteen ninety five. Hoody in the Blowfish's Cracked
Speaker 2: Rear View is the number one album of the year.
Speaker 2: Mariah Carey sells twenty million copies of her album Daydream.
Speaker 2: The Rolling Stones are on their Voodoo Lounge comeback tour.
Speaker 2: Coolio wins Best Rap Performance for Gangster's Paradise, while Will
Speaker 2: Smith finishes the entire run of Fresh Prince of bel
Speaker 2: Air and moves on to Independence Day. I'm going to
Speaker 2: bring Aaron Kane back into the mix now and let
Speaker 2: the two of them tell you what happened next. And
Speaker 2: as a heads up, he's going to name some new
Speaker 2: jack swing artists from the nineties who if you don't
Speaker 2: know them, you will want to look them up.
Speaker 4: So now here we are in Newport News, sitting there
Speaker 4: and don't have no deal. Don't have no deal. We're
Speaker 4: I mean, we're constantly working on demos, and so we
Speaker 4: know that Teddy Riley is in Virginia Beach. Teddy Riley
Speaker 4: had the Future Studios in Virginia Beach where Michael Jackson
Speaker 4: recorded dangerous albums.
Speaker 5: Guys is popping, Guys.
Speaker 4: Is doing their stuff there, Black Streets down there, Black
Speaker 4: Street is doing crazy stuff.
Speaker 2: Guy and Black Street. If you are hearing those names
Speaker 2: for the first time right now, look him up. Listen
Speaker 2: to Let's Chill or Before I Let You Go or
Speaker 2: Groove Me. You can thank me later. Teddy Riley is
Speaker 2: a member of both of those groups and he's their
Speaker 2: producer and he is really having a moment as he
Speaker 2: heard Michael Jackson is working with him. That is the
Speaker 2: ultimate seal of approval. At the time, white guys are
Speaker 2: looking for a label, for a manager, for anything, so
Speaker 2: they do what's worked before. They put themselves in front
Speaker 2: of a very important person and they ask.
Speaker 5: I think maybe Tim A todb went up there.
Speaker 4: They they contacted somebody going into the Future Studios and
Speaker 4: it ends up being a guy named Leon Silver's the Third.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember a group from the
Speaker 4: Silvers back in the seventies.
Speaker 2: Yeah as Wyle, right, yes, yeah yeah. Are they Hotline?
Speaker 2: Yes Hot Yeah? Okay, yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: Well Leon is like Leon Silver's the Third. He is
Speaker 4: a great producer, great songwriter. He actually did Janet Jackson's
Speaker 4: first album. Well at the time, he was at Future
Speaker 4: Studios working with Teddy Riley on some stuff. He actually
Speaker 4: did before I Let You Go by Black Street, Before
Speaker 4: You Go.
Speaker 5: Can I Get Good Nun? He he did that.
Speaker 2: I love these musical interludes.
Speaker 4: That's one of my favorite songs of all time. I
Speaker 4: love that song, Dave Hollister saying that. But anyway, so
Speaker 4: I think the story is is that Tim walked into
Speaker 4: Future Studios one time and ran into Leon and had
Speaker 4: a conversation with him, maybe gave him a demo tape
Speaker 4: or whatever. He heard some of our stuff and he
Speaker 4: was like, guys, why don't you guys come by my
Speaker 4: house and start recording with me. Now, at the time,
Speaker 4: I'm twenty one, twenty two. I don't know who the
Speaker 4: hell Leon Silvers is, you know, I don't know who yet.
Speaker 4: He's just some old guy. Would dreads to me, and
Speaker 4: I say old. He was probably his forties at the time.
Speaker 2: And like any good old guy in his forties, Leon
Speaker 2: Silver's the third ran a tight ship.
Speaker 5: We go to his house every day. We would get up.
Speaker 4: He was an early bird, and we would get up
Speaker 4: at like six seven o'clock in the morning, be at
Speaker 4: his house in the morning at eight o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 4: and record at his house on reel to reel. He
Speaker 4: had real to reel. That's what we were recording.
Speaker 2: That's standard old guy behavior. The guys write four more
Speaker 2: songs and record demos for them, and because they're not
Speaker 2: on a label anymore, not getting a stipend or weekend
Speaker 2: trips to Disney World, they're having to figure out how
Speaker 2: to feed themselves. How are you earning money during all
Speaker 2: of this?
Speaker 1: I got a regular job. Yeah, Aaron and them Aaron them.
Speaker 1: They got jobs. Everybody got jobs. And then whenever we
Speaker 1: would finish work, we will always go to the studio.
Speaker 1: So it was like work, work, work, work. We would
Speaker 1: stay in the studio. So even if I had to
Speaker 1: be at work at nine o'clock in the morning, stand
Speaker 1: a studio till six o'clock in the morning and still
Speaker 1: at least get an our sleep to go to work.
Speaker 2: What was work at that time?
Speaker 3: It was? What was that time? It was sprint.
Speaker 2: Tim is working at a Sprint store. And meanwhile Boys
Speaker 2: to Men are blowing up. As I told you, End
Speaker 2: of the Road goes to number one and stays there
Speaker 2: for thirteen weeks. I'll Make Love to You, from their
Speaker 2: second album, stays at number one for fourteen weeks until
Speaker 2: it gets replaced by On Bendney, another Boys to Men's song,
Speaker 2: Boys to Men Are Dominating, and Tommy Montola, the CEO
Speaker 2: of Columbia Records and husband of Mariah Carey, makes Boys
Speaker 2: to Men the same kind of deal Motown once gave
Speaker 2: to Michael Bivens.
Speaker 4: Tommy Bettola said, listen, guys, if you guys do a
Speaker 4: song with Mariah, I'll give you your own label deal. Right,
Speaker 4: So they did the song you Know Went to the Moon.
Speaker 2: The song Boys to Men do with Mariah Carey is
Speaker 2: called One Sweet Day. It goes to number one and
Speaker 2: stays there for sixteen weeks. They have now broken their
Speaker 2: own record for longest running number one single twice, and
Speaker 2: this third record stands until Old Town Road breaks it
Speaker 2: nearly twenty five years later.
Speaker 4: So they got their own label deal off of that
Speaker 4: song called Stone Creek Records Sudden Impact.
Speaker 2: Who I should be calling white guys right now? And
Speaker 2: I keep trying, but I guess my body doesn't want
Speaker 2: to have a pre existing relationship with Boys to Men
Speaker 2: having been in their debut video. So once again they
Speaker 2: go on a road trip to try to get some attention,
Speaker 2: but this time they have songs.
Speaker 1: It was Aaron Nole and Todd went to Richmond, Virginia
Speaker 1: to see Boys the Men and Jodasy perform do that concert,
Speaker 1: and they ran into Mike McCarey, the one who left
Speaker 1: Boys the Men, the one with the back problems, the
Speaker 1: bass voice.
Speaker 3: They ran into him at the arena.
Speaker 1: And we had the demos at that We had all
Speaker 1: of our songs on tape, and they were really good
Speaker 1: because we were halfway working with Teddy Riley too a
Speaker 1: little bit indirectly, yep, indirectly, And so Mike McCarey heard
Speaker 1: the songs, He's like, we're about to start our own
Speaker 1: label called Stone Creek. Won't you guys come sign with us?
Speaker 1: And that's how we got the Stone Creek.
Speaker 4: So now here we are in another label situation, and
Speaker 4: Stone Creek is a part of Sony Records. So now
Speaker 4: Boys of Men moves us up to Philly. That's how
Speaker 4: I'm in the spot where I'm at now in Jersey.
Speaker 4: In ninety seven, they move us up to Philadelphia, put
Speaker 4: us up in this amazing apartment complex in Germantown, Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: Big apartment.
Speaker 1: It was like the apartment was sort of like you
Speaker 1: and the TV showed different strokes. Yeah, yeah, the house
Speaker 1: but without the stairs. But that's how big it was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we all, all six of us, stayed there for two
Speaker 1: years and we banged out songs. Because Boys Men ended
Speaker 1: up buying Will Smith's old studio in Gladwin, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 5: So they signed us, and they signed another artist. His
Speaker 5: name is Uncle Sam. Oh no, if you know who
Speaker 5: Uncle Sam is.
Speaker 2: We're fresh my memory. That sounds sort of familiar.
Speaker 5: I Don't Never Want to See You?
Speaker 2: Yes, Uncle Sam's I Don't Ever Want to See You
Speaker 2: Again went to number six on the Billboard charts. And
Speaker 2: I love it when Aaron Kine sings to me. So
Speaker 2: the guys are on their third label. They're finally getting
Speaker 2: to work on an album in a world where R
Speaker 2: and B vocal groups are selling crazy amounts of CDs.
Speaker 2: They start to work even harder. And this is the
Speaker 2: mid nineties by now, so I have to ask, is
Speaker 2: there choreography?
Speaker 4: It's funny that you say that, because that was a
Speaker 4: problem for us.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Everybody wanted us to be dancers and be dancers like
Speaker 4: new kids on the block and new addition, and we
Speaker 4: just weren't into the dance. And man, we just like
Speaker 4: that wasn't something that we were passionate about. You know,
Speaker 4: like we didn't want to dance. We just wanted to
Speaker 4: record songs, sing songs and come out and sing to
Speaker 4: the latens like that. That's what we wanted to do.
Speaker 2: Some dancing was expected, it was.
Speaker 4: It was at that time, and everybody was like, come on, guys,
Speaker 4: you guys got to dance.
Speaker 2: With Stone Creek Records, the guys get a new start
Speaker 2: a new attitude and a new name.
Speaker 3: Another name change. Yes, this is crazy Yanye from Boys
Speaker 3: to Men.
Speaker 1: He liked the way they look, and plus he was
Speaker 1: a fan of the movie The Outsiders, and he said,
Speaker 1: you know what we should call you, Guys to Outsiders, said,
Speaker 1: I just got finished watching the movie the other day,
Speaker 1: he said, Plus, some of y'all looked like one of
Speaker 1: the characters and the Alzheizers Ciders. So we're going to
Speaker 1: give each one of y'all the same nickname, pony Boy all.
Speaker 3: This that young. Yeah, that was a great idea.
Speaker 2: So Too Special became Sudden Impact, which became White Guys,
Speaker 2: which became the Outsiders. It's hard enough to get any
Speaker 2: kind of momentum going in the music industry without your
Speaker 2: name changing every five minutes. But the guys keep pushing forward.
Speaker 4: So anyway, so we're recording at Sony and Boys of
Speaker 4: Men ends up putting out Uncle Sam first. So here
Speaker 4: we get bumped again and Dave, are songs.
Speaker 5: That we were recording there.
Speaker 4: We had actually some songs with boys and men singing,
Speaker 4: some backgrounds with us, and I mean the songs that
Speaker 4: we were doing there were just beautiful, beautiful songs and
Speaker 4: they choose to put out I don't never want to
Speaker 4: see you again. Uncle Sam put his album out. They
Speaker 4: put Uncle Sam's album out, and guess what happens after that?
Speaker 2: Oh, you actually want me to guess?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Did they drop you?
Speaker 5: The label goes under?
Speaker 4: Oh god, Tommy Battola ends up dropping Stone Creek after
Speaker 4: the Uncle Sam album comes out.
Speaker 5: So here we are again.
Speaker 4: Now we've just been through all of this and here
Speaker 4: we are again with no record deal again.
Speaker 2: So how can that be? He's the boys de Man
Speaker 2: m Riah Carey have the longest running number one of
Speaker 2: all time up to that time, right right, huge, So
Speaker 2: they've got they've done, end of the road. They've done.
Speaker 2: I mean, they're they're huge. They get offered a label deal,
Speaker 2: they signed two people. Was it just Tommy Mottola saying
Speaker 2: like I gave you what I said I was gonna
Speaker 2: ge you and now I don't want to pay attention
Speaker 2: to this anymore or what happened?
Speaker 4: I think I think it was something internal that that
Speaker 4: we really don't know about. I think it's something internal
Speaker 4: between Poison Men and Tommy Mattola.
Speaker 5: That's what I think.
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe the phone call when we got the
Speaker 4: phone call that the label is folding, and now you
Speaker 4: guys got to go back to Virginia again. I mean,
Speaker 4: we were just devastating Stone Creek.
Speaker 2: The whole label just straight up folds. The guys are
Speaker 2: back to square one yet again. But at least this
Speaker 2: time they've made some proper recordings. What happened to the
Speaker 2: music that was recorded for Stone Creek?
Speaker 1: We still got it, Yeah, yeah, we still got it.
Speaker 1: It's kind of dated though, but yeah, we still got it.
Speaker 1: I remember, because remember, you gotta understand this one thing.
Speaker 3: A lot of people don't remember.
Speaker 1: Sun Impact was supposed to be the next new kids
Speaker 1: on the block.
Speaker 3: So with all these.
Speaker 1: Deals we were going through in between, that left it
Speaker 1: all open for back Street Boys and and Sync you know,
Speaker 1: to come through. So we weren't trying to be like them.
Speaker 1: We were trying to be a little more edgy. I'll say,
Speaker 1: like a comparison between Jodasy and Boys to Men, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, a little more edgy.
Speaker 2: So at least they still have their music from back then.
Speaker 1: Kind of the songs are on four Match that I
Speaker 1: really can't transfer because I don't have the machines for
Speaker 1: them anymore, which really sucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're just sitting there in a hard drive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not even a hard drive will tape, Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Them studio tapes, you know, like even whenever people are
Speaker 1: doing radio, the little small little tapes that you put
Speaker 1: in Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah a a's or whatever
Speaker 1: you used to call it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's almost nothing you can do with that.
Speaker 1: Anymore now unless that I can hold it up to
Speaker 1: the light and see if I can see the music notes.
Speaker 3: But other than that, yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2: So the frustration of that never coming out. Did that
Speaker 2: Did you see that wearing on on them? On yourself?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: I think I don't think.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel that way. I was just too determined.
Speaker 1: I knew a couple of the guys were determined. I
Speaker 1: think that I say Alan and Todd, who were like
Speaker 1: the closest, they were also determined. Aaron and No they
Speaker 1: were determined, but they were just they just wanted to
Speaker 1: move on for something else. But they still was determined
Speaker 1: to do music. But it was frustrating. We did a
Speaker 1: lot of songs with boys, the men, went to a
Speaker 1: lot of parties, and then in nineteen ninety seven it
Speaker 1: all stop.
Speaker 2: So Sudden Impact got signed at the time of New
Speaker 2: Kids on the Block. They kept writing and recording demos
Speaker 2: through the years when a boy band was pop music
Speaker 2: poison and then parted ways at the exact moment boy
Speaker 2: bands became big again with the right label. With any
Speaker 2: consistent label or name, they could have had their moment.
Speaker 2: The timing was just always exactly off. So what does
Speaker 2: that feel like?
Speaker 3: Like a letdown? I said, we're going to find something else,
Speaker 3: you know, and went home.
Speaker 1: And that's when we started having that being upset at
Speaker 1: each other because everybody wanted to control everything because we
Speaker 1: had gotten better with recording writing songs. So what I
Speaker 1: want to write too? I want to write too. And
Speaker 1: the majority of the writing was me and me and Todd.
Speaker 1: We were like Leonard and McCartney. We were throwing them
Speaker 1: out and so we started writing, and then everybody would
Speaker 1: get frustrated because one didn't want to come to the
Speaker 1: studio anymore, or somebody girlfriend they had to go see them,
Speaker 1: or just had to focus.
Speaker 3: Was starting to wane a little bit.
Speaker 1: And I think what happened Aaron Aaron and Know they
Speaker 1: wanted to do darker songs than what we were doing,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of like a jobasy and this, that
Speaker 1: and the other. So one time we had a meeting
Speaker 1: and Aaron and Knows said we're going to start our
Speaker 1: own band.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No Love Loss.
Speaker 2: The Cane Brothers split off to start another vocal group
Speaker 2: with their friend Donnie Evans, which they called DNA for
Speaker 2: Donnie Noel Aaron the Outsiders fill the open positions with
Speaker 2: two new guys, Jimmy Marble and Jason Dowdy. And he
Speaker 2: won't be surprised by what happens next.
Speaker 1: We found two more members to add to the group
Speaker 1: and then called them Outsiders for Life.
Speaker 2: Yes, that is right. So just to review, two Special
Speaker 2: became Sudden Impact became White Guys became the Outsiders became
Speaker 2: Outsiders for Life. And it is a Z instead of
Speaker 2: an S at the end of Outsiders, and the four
Speaker 2: is a number four. It's an eye in life, though
Speaker 2: it's not a why they exercised some restraint. It's two
Speaker 2: thousand by now. Insincts No Strings Attached is the number
Speaker 2: one album of the year. Mariah Carey is filming Glitter.
Speaker 2: The Rolling Stones are playing smaller venues on their No
Speaker 2: Security Comeback Tour. Eminem wins Best Rap Performance for My
Speaker 2: Name Is, and Will Smith recovers from the failure of
Speaker 2: the movie Wild Wild West with the album Willennium Outsider's
Speaker 2: four Life recorded an album in two thousand for Blackground Records,
Speaker 2: a Leah's label. It was never released. Aaron's new project,
Speaker 2: DNA didn't get too much traction either, and his brother
Speaker 2: Noel and his old friends in such an impact or
Speaker 2: whatever you're calling them in your head right now all
Speaker 2: went home to Virginia.
Speaker 4: So from there, everybody else went back to Virginia. I
Speaker 4: didn't go back to Virginia because I met a girl
Speaker 4: here in South Jersey, and when that whole thing happened,
Speaker 4: I actually met her at a Boys of Man concert.
Speaker 5: That's funny perfect.
Speaker 2: Aaron stayed behind with his new girlfriend, who would become
Speaker 2: his wife, and he started a solo career under his
Speaker 2: own name on another new label, Invigorator Records. Flash forward
Speaker 2: to two thousand and six. The number one album of
Speaker 2: the year is the soundtrack to the Disney Channel original
Speaker 2: movie High School Musical Mariah Carey is Back with the
Speaker 2: Emancipation of Mimi. The Rolling Stones are in the middle
Speaker 2: of there a Bigger Bang Comeback Tour. Kanye West wins
Speaker 2: Best Rap Perform Moments for gold Digger, Will Smith does
Speaker 2: The Pursuit of Happiness, gets nominated for an Oscar and
Speaker 2: in his old NBC Monday night time slot, a new
Speaker 2: show debuts. It's called Heroes. It stars Hayden Pantier, who,
Speaker 2: when we started this story back in nineteen eighty nine
Speaker 2: was not born yet. Aaron Kane releases a solo single
Speaker 2: called got a Love.
Speaker 4: My song called Gota Love went to number seven.
Speaker 5: On the R and B charts in two thousand and five, so.
Speaker 4: Maybe made some significant amount of money, you know, with that.
Speaker 4: We sold three hundred thousand copies of that independently, so
Speaker 4: you know, that was very lucrative for us, and you know,
Speaker 4: got to buy house and buy stuff. And so after that,
Speaker 4: I did an album with them, Let That Out, did
Speaker 4: pretty good, and then that.
Speaker 2: Label folded Geez because the two of them had always
Speaker 2: had a good relationship. Aaron and Tim reunited.
Speaker 4: Me and him have been working on independent artists.
Speaker 5: We do TV and film now.
Speaker 4: Like I have a bunch of artists myself that I
Speaker 4: deal with.
Speaker 5: I still put out my own albums.
Speaker 4: I just put out two new albums in the last
Speaker 4: six months. One called Confused and another one called Love
Speaker 4: Receipts that me and Tim produced all ourselves.
Speaker 5: And we do TV and film.
Speaker 4: We do stuff for independent artists, working on stuff for
Speaker 4: Casey from Jobsee.
Speaker 5: I just did a song with his niece.
Speaker 4: I love letting out albums because I truly am an artist.
Speaker 5: At heart, you know what I mean, Like that's where.
Speaker 4: I came from from when I was seventeen eight years
Speaker 4: eighteen years.
Speaker 5: Old, Like that's what I did.
Speaker 4: And what I love about doing music is that you
Speaker 4: start with a blank canvas and you start with silence,
Speaker 4: and at the end of the song you end up
Speaker 4: with organized sounds and organized vocals and emotions, and and
Speaker 4: then after you get done producing the song and mixing
Speaker 4: down the song, it's like, wow, look what I have.
Speaker 2: Look what I have, creative created.
Speaker 5: Life, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just it's just a great feeling, you know,
Speaker 4: after you get done.
Speaker 2: Right. But it's been you know, the path was a
Speaker 2: winding one to this point, and there were a lot
Speaker 2: of a lot of moments that just didn't didn't pan
Speaker 2: out well.
Speaker 4: Of course, I would have loved to be a multi
Speaker 4: platinum selling group, you know, I mean, I mean, that's
Speaker 4: That's why when you're a little kid, you get in
Speaker 4: to this industry because that's what you want, you know.
Speaker 4: But I'm truly blessed that I've been blessed with a
Speaker 4: talent that I can, like, I'll be seventy years old
Speaker 4: producing the track.
Speaker 2: You know, despite everything, Aaron Kane is in it for
Speaker 2: the long haul and Tim Byrd feels the same way.
Speaker 2: Are you happy that you took the ride?
Speaker 3: Yes, very happy. I'm happy for the age talk about
Speaker 3: you said the.
Speaker 2: Ride right, just the whole whole thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was experienced. It allowed me to grow, you know,
Speaker 1: That's why I love it. I enjoy it and and
Speaker 1: actually prepares you for downtime whenever nothing's going on. You
Speaker 1: don't stress out. You don't want to feel like you're
Speaker 1: a nobody or anything like that.
Speaker 3: But as I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you think the rest of the guys
Speaker 2: felt about it? You said you don't want to feel
Speaker 2: like a nobody? Do you do you think that they
Speaker 2: ever felt that.
Speaker 3: Way during those down times that we had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I don't think so.
Speaker 3: None of us did. We were just determined. We didn't.
Speaker 1: I don't think we had time to even think about
Speaker 1: being depressed. We were just like, Noah, let's go, let's go,
Speaker 1: let's go.
Speaker 2: You know you mentioned earlier that there that you you're
Speaker 2: not concerned about fame anymore. Is there? Do you remember
Speaker 2: a moment where you were like, that's I'm finished with
Speaker 2: that pursuit now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, early on, I think round about when I was with.
Speaker 1: And being around that time period, and you get to
Speaker 1: watch how other people respond to whatever success or lack thereof,
Speaker 1: and you don't. I started to say, I said, I
Speaker 1: don't want to be like that person. I believe that
Speaker 1: we got it back in those days, I think we
Speaker 1: would have been broke.
Speaker 2: Now, talk me through what that looks like to you.
Speaker 2: What you mean like the scenario in which Sudden Impact
Speaker 2: had released a huge record.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they released a huge record.
Speaker 1: Be great for that time period, but remember music started
Speaker 1: changing too.
Speaker 3: How are we going to keep up with the change?
Speaker 1: And when you're in front of the crowd, it's hard
Speaker 1: for you to make that transition with music changes. We
Speaker 1: were underneath the radar. Even though they were into videos,
Speaker 1: they were still under the radar, so they had the
Speaker 1: ability to grow when music was changing.
Speaker 2: What's the guy's relationship with each other now? The five
Speaker 2: of them, the original five.
Speaker 3: Okay, the original five.
Speaker 2: Ok Yeah.
Speaker 1: I talked to Aaron. Me and Aaron talk almost daily,
Speaker 1: so I keep in touch with him. I just talked
Speaker 1: to his brother no on Saturday, so I told him, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I told him about the podcast.
Speaker 3: He said, I really don't know what to say. I said,
Speaker 3: they want to ask you about Sun Impact.
Speaker 1: You know more of the ends than I do. I
Speaker 1: just recorded you guys. Yeah, So I talked to him.
Speaker 1: He's interested in trying to do it. Todd, who started
Speaker 1: the group, Me and him, like I said, we were
Speaker 1: like the Lenna McCartney of the group. And he's still
Speaker 1: a great songwriter. And he's been doing country lately, great crunch.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's doing great with that.
Speaker 3: Dave, who's also in the group, we haven't seen him
Speaker 3: in years, no now.
Speaker 1: I think he wanted to get away from that whole
Speaker 1: thing because he was kind of the quiet one anyway.
Speaker 1: Alan Healey, which is Todd's best friend. Alan Heely, he
Speaker 1: now owns a couple of computer repair stories.
Speaker 3: He doesn't do music anymore. He still listens, but he
Speaker 3: doesn't do music anymore.
Speaker 2: But aside from Dave, everybody still keeps in contact. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I'm waiting on a reply from Noel Caine, and
Speaker 2: Tim says he's going to put in a good word
Speaker 2: for me with Todd White, who, if all goes well,
Speaker 2: will put me in touch with Alan Healy. So from
Speaker 2: the original lineup of Sudden Impact, that just leaves Dave,
Speaker 2: a man I know only as Dave. No one I've
Speaker 2: spoken to so far has his contact info. But now
Speaker 2: I have four more full names of Sudden Impact members,
Speaker 2: a few more names of Sudden Impact to the group,
Speaker 2: so I can investigate a little more extensively. So I do,
Speaker 2: and I find a lineup for Outsiders for Life. Todd
Speaker 2: White is in there, Alan Healy is in there, plus
Speaker 2: the new guys Jason Dowdy and Jimmy Marble, and the
Speaker 2: fifth member of two specials Sudden Impact White guys, the
Speaker 2: Outsiders Outsiders for Life. His name is Dave Smith. This
Speaker 2: is going to be harder than I thought. Next time,
Speaker 2: I'm going to search the world for a Dave Smith,
Speaker 2: and I will talk to someone who tasted success in
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties and then ran in a brand new direction.
Speaker 2: His story. In the next episode of Waiting for Impact,
Speaker 2: a Dave Holmes Passion Project. This has been an Exactly
Speaker 2: Right production written by me Dave Holmes, produced by Hannah
Speaker 2: Kyle Crichton, recorded, mixed and sound designed by Andrew Epen.
Speaker 2: Additional engineering and assembly by Annalise Nelson. Music by Ben Wise,
Speaker 2: artwork by Garrett Ross Executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia
Speaker 2: hart Starr and Danielle Kramer. Follow the show on Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 2: and Twitter at exactly right and follow me at Dave Holmes.
Speaker 2: For more information, go to Exactlyrightmedia dot com binge the
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Speaker 2: Head to Stitcher Premier dot com slash impact and enter
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