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Speaker 1: I don't know it was meant to happen. You know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, We weren't meant to have that success

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Speaker 1: at that time because I think that I think we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to hand it.

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Speaker 2: That is Tim Bird. He wrote and produced music with

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Speaker 2: Sudden Impact, the lost boy band I'm trying to find.

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Speaker 2: He was so integral to their sound. Some people call

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Speaker 2: him the sixth member of Sudden Impact. I've gotten his

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Speaker 2: contact info from Aaron Kane, the lead singer of the group,

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Speaker 2: and I'm getting the Sudden Impact story from his perspective,

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Speaker 2: and right away I get a brand new piece of information.

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Speaker 1: They start a group called Too Special first before they

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Speaker 1: became set an Impact.

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Speaker 2: Too Special, Yes what I'm saying, too number two to

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, okay, Too Special. This is a group who's

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Speaker 2: had a lot of ups and downs, a lot of

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Speaker 2: record labels and a lot of getting dropped from record labels,

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Speaker 2: and as you're about to find out, they've also had

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Speaker 2: a lot of names. In this episode, we'll hear more

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Speaker 2: of the Sudden Impact story from producer Tim Bird and

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Speaker 2: lead singer Aaron Kane. This is Waiting for Impact, a

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Speaker 2: Dave Holmes passion project when we left off in the

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Speaker 2: last episode, I was trying to get Noel Kane's contact

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Speaker 2: info from his brother Aaron finally did get it. I

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Speaker 2: have reached out and as of yet, I have not

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Speaker 2: heard anything back. But in the meantime, there's another name

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Speaker 2: to add to the list of names that this group

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Speaker 2: has had. Too Special became Sudden Impact, which became White Guys.

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Speaker 2: And not to spoil anything, but that list of names

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Speaker 2: is going to get longer. More on that later, but

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Speaker 2: for now, tell me how you came to work with

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Speaker 2: Sudden Impact.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we all went to high school together. Was that

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Speaker 1: I was in a group at the time. We were

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Speaker 1: performing original songs and one of the members of Sudden Impact, well,

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Speaker 1: they became such a bat, Todd White.

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Speaker 3: He wanted to start a group like New Kids on

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Speaker 3: the Block.

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Speaker 2: It's nineteen eighty nine as this story begins. Bobby Brown's

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Speaker 2: Don't Be Cruel is the number one album of the year.

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Speaker 2: Mariah Carey is recording her debut album. The Rolling Stones

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Speaker 2: are out on their Steel Wheels Comeback Tour. Will Smith

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Speaker 2: beats JJ FADD and Cool Mo d to win the

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Speaker 2: first ever Best Rap Performance Grammy for Parents. Just Don't understand,

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Speaker 2: and he meets with Quincy Jones to develop NBC's The

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Speaker 2: Fresh Prince of bel Air. Tim Bird joins Too Special

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Speaker 2: as the group's unofficial producer, and here in the present

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Speaker 2: he confirms the wildest part of the story.

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Speaker 1: So they're out in LA and they're calling us, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we just ranted the heavy d. Hey he's randed Stevie

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Speaker 1: wonder we thought they were lying. And then they had

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Speaker 1: their poster, the two Special poster, right yeah, And they

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Speaker 1: run into BIV.

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Speaker 3: There's like Michael Bibbins.

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Speaker 1: They say, uh, bib our poster and Biff told him

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Speaker 1: get that out of my face. Well, was something, you know,

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Speaker 1: curse first behind it. Get that out of my face.

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Speaker 1: I'm not signing that bleep. And he thought it was

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Speaker 1: you can swear feeling.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: He thought it was a poster of new Kids on

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Speaker 1: the Block, because remember there was a rivalry between New

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Speaker 1: Audition and New Kids on the Block, right Sead back

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Speaker 1: in this day, right. So Todd told him said, look, no,

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Speaker 1: we're a new group.

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Speaker 3: We're stuck out here in LA.

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Speaker 1: We have no way to get back home, but would

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Speaker 1: you please sign this poster?

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Speaker 3: So he signed it. He said a new group. Huh,

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Speaker 3: all right, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Here's some money for a ticket, plane ticket. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: send you out back to Virginia and wait for a

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Speaker 1: call for me in a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: So, okay, Aaron told me that I didn't one percent

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Speaker 2: believe it. This is actually how it happened. He just

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Speaker 2: saw the picture.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm, he just saw the pictures.

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Speaker 2: Do you do you think that that rivalry between New

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Speaker 2: Edition and New Kids on the Block had anything to

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Speaker 2: do with why he wanted to sign them.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I think so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Nobody else believes it, but I think so. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: think it was like get back, Yeah, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and plus it's a lot of money because New Kids

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Speaker 1: on the Box they they made a billion dollars.

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Speaker 3: Off of merchandise Alon, right, right, So I think it

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Speaker 3: was that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So what happens next?

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Speaker 1: What happens next? He calls us in a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: We didn't believe them even they came back from La

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Speaker 1: Yeah whatever, whatever. Me just working on songs and just

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Speaker 1: playing around, and Michael Bivens calls the house and we're talking.

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Speaker 1: He said, guys, I'm gonna sign you. Guys, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: send the contracts. They'll be out there by FedEx. They

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Speaker 1: we all got the contracts, signed them as artists, signed

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Speaker 1: me as a producer, and changed their name to Sudden Impact.

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Speaker 2: Right, and why did he change that name?

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Speaker 3: He liked the movie Clint Eastwood movie.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Sudden Impact was a big movie. It's the one

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Speaker 2: that gave the culture go ahead, make my day. I

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Speaker 2: was hoping for a better story there, but I will

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Speaker 2: take that one. So Sudden Impact all signed their contracts.

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Speaker 2: Tim Bird signs his and goes from being the unofficial

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Speaker 2: producer to the official producer, and they all plan to

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Speaker 2: get busy recording, but before they do, they get their

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Speaker 2: big break.

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Speaker 1: And the rest is then they came back and ended

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Speaker 1: up in the Motown Philly video. Right, that was during

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Speaker 1: that same time they end up in the Motown Philly video.

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Speaker 2: So by the time they were in the Motown Philly video,

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Speaker 2: had had you recorded anything officially for Michael Bibbins yet?

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Speaker 1: We had just started Well, actually he hadn't heard it yet,

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Speaker 1: that's right, that's right. They didn't have They didn't have

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Speaker 1: a finished demo that we could send some because everything

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Speaker 1: was moving so fast.

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Speaker 2: So they're in the video but they don't have a

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Speaker 2: song yet.

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Speaker 3: No, not yet.

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Speaker 2: Sudden Impact has gotten a major leg up. The video

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Speaker 2: is on rotation on all the big music video networks.

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Speaker 2: People around the country are seeing it over and over

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Speaker 2: and they're waiting to hear music from Sudden Impact. The

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Speaker 2: pressure is on. How did that feel for all of

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Speaker 2: you getting that kind of boost? How did that feel?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I felt I felt great?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I felt like, this is my chance to

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Speaker 1: be Michael Jackson.

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Speaker 3: But you know, be famous and all that. But what happens.

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Speaker 1: I ended up leaving my group to focus solely on

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Speaker 1: Sudden Impact.

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Speaker 2: What was your band called So Suave? So Suave is

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Speaker 2: an awesome name. But this is the point in the

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Speaker 2: story when the group that had been called Too Special

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Speaker 2: and later was called Sudden Impact is about to be

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Speaker 2: called something new.

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Speaker 1: After Motown Philly video came out, That's when Bibb started

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Speaker 1: marketing and finding other art artists to come into the

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Speaker 1: fold of the East Coast Family. Right then and there,

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Speaker 1: when he formed the East Coast Family, he changed Sudden.

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Speaker 3: Impact to the White Guys.

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Speaker 1: Now why because whenever he would do interviews or boys

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Speaker 1: and men would do interviews instead of asking questions about

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Speaker 1: Michael Bivens BBD or boys to men, they would say, Hey, whatever.

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Speaker 3: Happened to them? White guys? There's the video? Yeah and

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Speaker 3: so yeah, so big, change the name.

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Speaker 2: Change the name to white guys.

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Speaker 3: It's spelt like wit gizzies though.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've seen them. I've seen them in the

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Speaker 2: video for one for all for one. Yes, where they

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Speaker 2: are it's w h yt g I z E.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: How did you and how did the guys feel about

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Speaker 2: changing your name? For another time?

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Speaker 3: Didn't care. We were with Michael Bivens, So.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about Michael Bivens. I would love to talk

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Speaker 2: to Michael Bivins, but so far he hasn't gotten back

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Speaker 2: to me. I've asked I vete Nicole Brown to put

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Speaker 2: in a good word for me, because they're still close friends,

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Speaker 2: and she has, but so far nothing. I've been thinking

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Speaker 2: about it a lot, and I wonder whether he's worried

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Speaker 2: that he is going to be the villain of the story.

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Speaker 2: And I wonder whether that worries a Vet now that

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Speaker 2: she's involved with the show. And if that's the case,

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Speaker 2: I would understand his concern and hers, wouldn't you. I mean,

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Speaker 2: what if somebody came up to you right now and said,

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Speaker 2: I just heard an amazing story about you. How would

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Speaker 2: you feel You'd be a little concerned for a minute,

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Speaker 2: wouldn't you? Then? What if that person told you I'm

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Speaker 2: making a ten episode podcast series about that story. I'm

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Speaker 2: talking to all kinds of people who know you in

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Speaker 2: conversations that you won't be able to hear until the

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Speaker 2: show comes out. I get it. That has got to

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Speaker 2: be a scary thing to hear. If it were happening

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Speaker 2: to me, I probably wouldn't want to be involved either.

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Speaker 2: But a couple things. One, I am not interested in

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Speaker 2: assassinating anyone's character, or making a chump out of anyone,

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Speaker 2: or ruining anyone's reputation unless their kid Rock because I

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Speaker 2: hate that guy. Interesting stories usually don't have clear cut villains.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not interested in telling a boring story or

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Speaker 2: an easy one. This is a complicated story where everyone

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Speaker 2: so far is just doing their best. And Two, no

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Speaker 2: matter how the biv ten project turned out, it started

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Speaker 2: in the first place because of a trait of Bivins

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Speaker 2: that I admire, one that I think is worth celebrating ambition.

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Speaker 2: The biv ten project wasn't what he hoped it would be,

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Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean it was a bad thing. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't the success that he envisioned, but that doesn't make

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Speaker 2: it a failure. And most importantly, though he couldn't deliver

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Speaker 2: to his artists the fame and fortune that he may

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Speaker 2: have implicitly or explicitly promised them, he didn't leave them

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Speaker 2: with nothing. Life doesn't work in binaries like that. The

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Speaker 2: people I've spoken to so far are mostly not rich

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Speaker 2: and mostly not famous, but they are all better off

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Speaker 2: for having known and worked with Michael Biffins, and they

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Speaker 2: know it. Even if their relationship is strained, they all

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Speaker 2: still respect and admire the guy. Tim Bird puts it, well,

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Speaker 2: what do you think Michael Bivins thinks of the whole

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Speaker 2: BIV ten experience?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Good questions.

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Speaker 1: I don't speculate, though, but I don't know. I think

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Speaker 1: he thought it was a success, and yeah, think about it,

203
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Speaker 1: he was the first puppy. What puppy ended up doing?

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Speaker 1: BIV did it first. Yeah, so I don't know what.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if those things behind the scenes that

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Speaker 1: went on that we weren't privy to, but I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure he should be He should be pat hisself from

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Speaker 1: the back.

209
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Speaker 2: Back to the saga of Sudden Impact. Who I guess

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Speaker 2: we should now start calling White Guys. What was the

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Speaker 2: sound of White.

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Speaker 3: Guys, Salman? White Guys?

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Speaker 2: Was?

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Speaker 3: I would say it was pop?

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Speaker 1: It wasn't as poppy as in Sync or just that.

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Speaker 1: And you know a little more soul to it, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know a little more so a little more like uh,

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Speaker 1: a soulful group, like closely like what boys.

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Speaker 3: Thement was doing. Gotcha, Yeah, that's exactly they had. We

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Speaker 3: evolved over the years.

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Speaker 2: Though, and they had the time to evolve to catch

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Speaker 2: us up. Michael Bivens signed a group called Two Special

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Speaker 2: to his three artist production deal at Motown, then change

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Speaker 2: their name to Sudden Impact because he liked the Cline

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Speaker 2: Eastwood movie. Then signed Sudden Impact to Capitol Records, then

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Speaker 2: put Sudden Impact in Boys to Men's debut video, then

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Speaker 2: pulled them off Capitol Records to sign them to his

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Speaker 2: own label, biv ten Records, a division of Motown, then

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Speaker 2: changed their name again to White Guys. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of activity going on around this project, and once again,

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Speaker 2: Michael Bivens still has not heard a single song. What

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Speaker 2: then happens with white guys. Do you end up in

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Speaker 2: the studio at all?

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Speaker 1: Well, we started, we had built our own studio at

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Speaker 1: Todd's house, so we were always recorded at home, so

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Speaker 1: every day we would have songs. And at that time

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Speaker 1: there was something going on between I think Boys.

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Speaker 3: To Men and Michael Bivens. Not sure.

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Speaker 2: Let's dig into that a little bit. Boys to Men's

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Speaker 2: debut album, Coolly High Harmony, was executive produced by Michael Bivens,

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Speaker 2: and it was a big success. It sold nine million copies.

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Speaker 2: It had hits like Motown Philly and It's So Hard

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Speaker 2: to Say Goodbye to Yesterday, which would play at high

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Speaker 2: school graduation parties for years to come. Boys to Men

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Speaker 2: were on their way. In nineteen ninety two, they went

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Speaker 2: into the studio with Babyface, one of the most successful

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Speaker 2: R and B songwriters and producers of all time. They

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Speaker 2: recorded a song for the soundtrack of the Eddie Murphy

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Speaker 2: halle Berry romantic comedy Boomerang. That song was called End

250
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Speaker 2: of the Road. It was a smash. It went to

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Speaker 2: number one and stayed there for thirteen weeks, tying the

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Speaker 2: record set by Whitney Houston's I Will Always Love You.

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Speaker 2: Boys to Men really leveled up with End of the Road.

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Speaker 2: Their second album had the single I'll Make Love to You,

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Speaker 2: which broke Whitney Houston and Boys to Men's own record

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Speaker 2: by staying at number one for fourteen weeks. That album

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Speaker 2: sold twenty million copies. And I don't know why this is,

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Speaker 2: and it's not really pertinent to the sudden impact story,

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Speaker 2: and maybe it's part of what he doesn't want to

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Speaker 2: talk about anymore. But Michael Bivens isn't listed in the

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Speaker 2: credits for that second Boys to Men album anywhere.

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Speaker 1: Because this round about the time when there's second Boys

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Speaker 1: and Men's second album came out and sold like twenty

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Speaker 1: something million copies, and so things started slowing up. I

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Speaker 1: really don't understand. I can't really speak on why things

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Speaker 1: started slowing up when we knowsed it, but we still

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Speaker 1: kept working. We would call Michael and I'm asking, when's

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Speaker 1: the next time you gonna call chet send us out

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Speaker 1: to la or put us in the studio, And sometimes

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Speaker 1: we would get a call and sometimes not. He would

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Speaker 1: say that I'm working on something for y'all right now.

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Speaker 3: Then we finally got in touch with them.

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Speaker 1: He said, look, I'm gonna let you all go from

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Speaker 1: your contracts, blah blah. So we're getting more seasoned with

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Speaker 1: writing songs and producing songs, so every day we would

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Speaker 1: build our studio.

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Speaker 2: Listen to what he does there. Tim Bird is talking

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Speaker 2: about being let go from BIV ten Records, a massive disappointment,

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Speaker 2: and he just glides right past it. A three year

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Speaker 2: journey of high hopes, major labels, big expectations of pop

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Speaker 2: stardom gets dashed in a single phone call, and Tim

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Speaker 2: doesn't dwell on it for a second in his memory.

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Speaker 2: The guys just get right back to work. That is

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Speaker 2: called resilience, and that resilience is going to serve them

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Speaker 2: well in this next chapter.

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Speaker 1: And so I think it was like a year or

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Speaker 1: two later, or this was in ninety five when everything

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Speaker 1: just went crazy.

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Speaker 2: So it's nineteen ninety five. Hoody in the Blowfish's Cracked

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Speaker 2: Rear View is the number one album of the year.

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Speaker 2: Mariah Carey sells twenty million copies of her album Daydream.

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Speaker 2: The Rolling Stones are on their Voodoo Lounge comeback tour.

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Speaker 2: Coolio wins Best Rap Performance for Gangster's Paradise, while Will

294
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,200
Speaker 2: Smith finishes the entire run of Fresh Prince of bel

295
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Speaker 2: Air and moves on to Independence Day. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: bring Aaron Kane back into the mix now and let

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Speaker 2: the two of them tell you what happened next. And

298
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Speaker 2: as a heads up, he's going to name some new

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Speaker 2: jack swing artists from the nineties who if you don't

300
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Speaker 2: know them, you will want to look them up.

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Speaker 4: So now here we are in Newport News, sitting there

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Speaker 4: and don't have no deal. Don't have no deal. We're

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Speaker 4: I mean, we're constantly working on demos, and so we

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Speaker 4: know that Teddy Riley is in Virginia Beach. Teddy Riley

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Speaker 4: had the Future Studios in Virginia Beach where Michael Jackson

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Speaker 4: recorded dangerous albums.

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Speaker 5: Guys is popping, Guys.

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Speaker 4: Is doing their stuff there, Black Streets down there, Black

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Speaker 4: Street is doing crazy stuff.

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Speaker 2: Guy and Black Street. If you are hearing those names

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Speaker 2: for the first time right now, look him up. Listen

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Speaker 2: to Let's Chill or Before I Let You Go or

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Speaker 2: Groove Me. You can thank me later. Teddy Riley is

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Speaker 2: a member of both of those groups and he's their

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Speaker 2: producer and he is really having a moment as he

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Speaker 2: heard Michael Jackson is working with him. That is the

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Speaker 2: ultimate seal of approval. At the time, white guys are

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Speaker 2: looking for a label, for a manager, for anything, so

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Speaker 2: they do what's worked before. They put themselves in front

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Speaker 2: of a very important person and they ask.

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Speaker 5: I think maybe Tim A todb went up there.

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Speaker 4: They they contacted somebody going into the Future Studios and

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Speaker 4: it ends up being a guy named Leon Silver's the Third.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember a group from the

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Speaker 4: Silvers back in the seventies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah as Wyle, right, yes, yeah yeah. Are they Hotline?

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Speaker 2: Yes Hot Yeah? Okay, yeah yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well Leon is like Leon Silver's the Third. He is

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Speaker 4: a great producer, great songwriter. He actually did Janet Jackson's

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Speaker 4: first album. Well at the time, he was at Future

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Speaker 4: Studios working with Teddy Riley on some stuff. He actually

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Speaker 4: did before I Let You Go by Black Street, Before

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Speaker 4: You Go.

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Speaker 5: Can I Get Good Nun? He he did that.

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Speaker 2: I love these musical interludes.

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Speaker 4: That's one of my favorite songs of all time. I

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00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 4: love that song, Dave Hollister saying that. But anyway, so

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Speaker 4: I think the story is is that Tim walked into

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Speaker 4: Future Studios one time and ran into Leon and had

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Speaker 4: a conversation with him, maybe gave him a demo tape

341
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Speaker 4: or whatever. He heard some of our stuff and he

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Speaker 4: was like, guys, why don't you guys come by my

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Speaker 4: house and start recording with me. Now, at the time,

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Speaker 4: I'm twenty one, twenty two. I don't know who the

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Speaker 4: hell Leon Silvers is, you know, I don't know who yet.

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Speaker 4: He's just some old guy. Would dreads to me, and

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Speaker 4: I say old. He was probably his forties at the time.

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Speaker 2: And like any good old guy in his forties, Leon

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Speaker 2: Silver's the third ran a tight ship.

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Speaker 5: We go to his house every day. We would get up.

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Speaker 4: He was an early bird, and we would get up

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Speaker 4: at like six seven o'clock in the morning, be at

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Speaker 4: his house in the morning at eight o'clock in the morning,

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Speaker 4: and record at his house on reel to reel. He

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Speaker 4: had real to reel. That's what we were recording.

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Speaker 2: That's standard old guy behavior. The guys write four more

357
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Speaker 2: songs and record demos for them, and because they're not

358
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Speaker 2: on a label anymore, not getting a stipend or weekend

359
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,439
Speaker 2: trips to Disney World, they're having to figure out how

360
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,920
Speaker 2: to feed themselves. How are you earning money during all

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Speaker 2: of this?

362
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Speaker 1: I got a regular job. Yeah, Aaron and them Aaron them.

363
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Speaker 1: They got jobs. Everybody got jobs. And then whenever we

364
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Speaker 1: would finish work, we will always go to the studio.

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Speaker 1: So it was like work, work, work, work. We would

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Speaker 1: stay in the studio. So even if I had to

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Speaker 1: be at work at nine o'clock in the morning, stand

368
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Speaker 1: a studio till six o'clock in the morning and still

369
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Speaker 1: at least get an our sleep to go to work.

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Speaker 2: What was work at that time?

371
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Speaker 3: It was? What was that time? It was sprint.

372
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Speaker 2: Tim is working at a Sprint store. And meanwhile Boys

373
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Speaker 2: to Men are blowing up. As I told you, End

374
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Speaker 2: of the Road goes to number one and stays there

375
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Speaker 2: for thirteen weeks. I'll Make Love to You, from their

376
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,440
Speaker 2: second album, stays at number one for fourteen weeks until

377
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 2: it gets replaced by On Bendney, another Boys to Men's song,

378
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 2: Boys to Men Are Dominating, and Tommy Montola, the CEO

379
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Speaker 2: of Columbia Records and husband of Mariah Carey, makes Boys

380
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,159
Speaker 2: to Men the same kind of deal Motown once gave

381
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Speaker 2: to Michael Bivens.

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Speaker 4: Tommy Bettola said, listen, guys, if you guys do a

383
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Speaker 4: song with Mariah, I'll give you your own label deal. Right,

384
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Speaker 4: So they did the song you Know Went to the Moon.

385
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 2: The song Boys to Men do with Mariah Carey is

386
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Speaker 2: called One Sweet Day. It goes to number one and

387
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 2: stays there for sixteen weeks. They have now broken their

388
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 2: own record for longest running number one single twice, and

389
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 2: this third record stands until Old Town Road breaks it

390
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 2: nearly twenty five years later.

391
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Speaker 4: So they got their own label deal off of that

392
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Speaker 4: song called Stone Creek Records Sudden Impact.

393
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Speaker 2: Who I should be calling white guys right now? And

394
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Speaker 2: I keep trying, but I guess my body doesn't want

395
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 2: to have a pre existing relationship with Boys to Men

396
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 2: having been in their debut video. So once again they

397
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 2: go on a road trip to try to get some attention,

398
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 2: but this time they have songs.

399
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Speaker 1: It was Aaron Nole and Todd went to Richmond, Virginia

400
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Speaker 1: to see Boys the Men and Jodasy perform do that concert,

401
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: and they ran into Mike McCarey, the one who left

402
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,919
Speaker 1: Boys the Men, the one with the back problems, the

403
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Speaker 1: bass voice.

404
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 3: They ran into him at the arena.

405
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Speaker 1: And we had the demos at that We had all

406
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: of our songs on tape, and they were really good

407
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 1: because we were halfway working with Teddy Riley too a

408
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 1: little bit indirectly, yep, indirectly, And so Mike McCarey heard

409
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 1: the songs, He's like, we're about to start our own

410
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Speaker 1: label called Stone Creek. Won't you guys come sign with us?

411
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: And that's how we got the Stone Creek.

412
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 4: So now here we are in another label situation, and

413
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 4: Stone Creek is a part of Sony Records. So now

414
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 4: Boys of Men moves us up to Philly. That's how

415
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,120
Speaker 4: I'm in the spot where I'm at now in Jersey.

416
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 4: In ninety seven, they move us up to Philadelphia, put

417
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Speaker 4: us up in this amazing apartment complex in Germantown, Philadelphia.

418
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Speaker 3: Big apartment.

419
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Speaker 1: It was like the apartment was sort of like you

420
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: and the TV showed different strokes. Yeah, yeah, the house

421
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: but without the stairs. But that's how big it was. Yeah,

422
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: we all, all six of us, stayed there for two

423
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: years and we banged out songs. Because Boys Men ended

424
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: up buying Will Smith's old studio in Gladwin, Pennsylvania.

425
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Speaker 5: So they signed us, and they signed another artist. His

426
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,640
Speaker 5: name is Uncle Sam. Oh no, if you know who

427
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 5: Uncle Sam is.

428
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 2: We're fresh my memory. That sounds sort of familiar.

429
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 5: I Don't Never Want to See You?

430
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 2: Yes, Uncle Sam's I Don't Ever Want to See You

431
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 2: Again went to number six on the Billboard charts. And

432
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 2: I love it when Aaron Kine sings to me. So

433
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 2: the guys are on their third label. They're finally getting

434
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 2: to work on an album in a world where R

435
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 2: and B vocal groups are selling crazy amounts of CDs.

436
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: They start to work even harder. And this is the

437
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 2: mid nineties by now, so I have to ask, is

438
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 2: there choreography?

439
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 4: It's funny that you say that, because that was a

440
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 4: problem for us.

441
00:22:58,320 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 2: Really.

442
00:22:59,119 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

443
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 4: Everybody wanted us to be dancers and be dancers like

444
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 4: new kids on the block and new addition, and we

445
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 4: just weren't into the dance. And man, we just like

446
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 4: that wasn't something that we were passionate about. You know,

447
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 4: like we didn't want to dance. We just wanted to

448
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 4: record songs, sing songs and come out and sing to

449
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 4: the latens like that. That's what we wanted to do.

450
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 2: Some dancing was expected, it was.

451
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 4: It was at that time, and everybody was like, come on, guys,

452
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 4: you guys got to dance.

453
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 2: With Stone Creek Records, the guys get a new start

454
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 2: a new attitude and a new name.

455
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 3: Another name change. Yes, this is crazy Yanye from Boys

456
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:51,719
Speaker 3: to Men.

457
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: He liked the way they look, and plus he was

458
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: a fan of the movie The Outsiders, and he said,

459
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: you know what we should call you, Guys to Outsiders, said,

460
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: I just got finished watching the movie the other day,

461
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: he said, Plus, some of y'all looked like one of

462
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: the characters and the Alzheizers Ciders. So we're going to

463
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: give each one of y'all the same nickname, pony Boy all.

464
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: This that young. Yeah, that was a great idea.

465
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: So Too Special became Sudden Impact, which became White Guys,

466
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 2: which became the Outsiders. It's hard enough to get any

467
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: kind of momentum going in the music industry without your

468
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 2: name changing every five minutes. But the guys keep pushing forward.

469
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 4: So anyway, so we're recording at Sony and Boys of

470
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 4: Men ends up putting out Uncle Sam first. So here

471
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 4: we get bumped again and Dave, are songs.

472
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 5: That we were recording there.

473
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 4: We had actually some songs with boys and men singing,

474
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 4: some backgrounds with us, and I mean the songs that

475
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 4: we were doing there were just beautiful, beautiful songs and

476
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 4: they choose to put out I don't never want to

477
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 4: see you again. Uncle Sam put his album out. They

478
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 4: put Uncle Sam's album out, and guess what happens after that?

479
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: Oh, you actually want me to guess?

480
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

481
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: Did they drop you?

482
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 5: The label goes under?

483
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 4: Oh god, Tommy Battola ends up dropping Stone Creek after

484
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 4: the Uncle Sam album comes out.

485
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 5: So here we are again.

486
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 4: Now we've just been through all of this and here

487
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 4: we are again with no record deal again.

488
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: So how can that be? He's the boys de Man

489
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 2: m Riah Carey have the longest running number one of

490
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: all time up to that time, right right, huge, So

491
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 2: they've got they've done, end of the road. They've done.

492
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: I mean, they're they're huge. They get offered a label deal,

493
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: they signed two people. Was it just Tommy Mottola saying

494
00:25:58,359 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: like I gave you what I said I was gonna

495
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 2: ge you and now I don't want to pay attention

496
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 2: to this anymore or what happened?

497
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 4: I think I think it was something internal that that

498
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 4: we really don't know about. I think it's something internal

499
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 4: between Poison Men and Tommy Mattola.

500
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 5: That's what I think.

501
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,479
Speaker 4: I couldn't believe the phone call when we got the

502
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 4: phone call that the label is folding, and now you

503
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 4: guys got to go back to Virginia again. I mean,

504
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 4: we were just devastating Stone Creek.

505
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 2: The whole label just straight up folds. The guys are

506
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: back to square one yet again. But at least this

507
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: time they've made some proper recordings. What happened to the

508
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 2: music that was recorded for Stone Creek?

509
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: We still got it, Yeah, yeah, we still got it.

510
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: It's kind of dated though, but yeah, we still got it.

511
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: I remember, because remember, you gotta understand this one thing.

512
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 3: A lot of people don't remember.

513
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: Sun Impact was supposed to be the next new kids

514
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: on the block.

515
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: So with all these.

516
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: Deals we were going through in between, that left it

517
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: all open for back Street Boys and and Sync you know,

518
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: to come through. So we weren't trying to be like them.

519
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: We were trying to be a little more edgy. I'll say,

520
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: like a comparison between Jodasy and Boys to Men, you

521
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: know what I mean, a little more edgy.

522
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 2: So at least they still have their music from back then.

523
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: Kind of the songs are on four Match that I

524
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: really can't transfer because I don't have the machines for

525
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: them anymore, which really sucks.

526
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're just sitting there in a hard drive.

527
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, not even a hard drive will tape, Oh my god.

528
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

529
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: Them studio tapes, you know, like even whenever people are

530
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: doing radio, the little small little tapes that you put

531
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: in Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah a a's or whatever

532
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: you used to call it.

533
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's almost nothing you can do with that.

534
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: Anymore now unless that I can hold it up to

535
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: the light and see if I can see the music notes.

536
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 3: But other than that, yeah, that's great.

537
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 2: So the frustration of that never coming out. Did that

538
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: Did you see that wearing on on them? On yourself?

539
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: No?

540
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 3: I think I don't think.

541
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: I know.

542
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: I didn't feel that way. I was just too determined.

543
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: I knew a couple of the guys were determined. I

544
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: think that I say Alan and Todd, who were like

545
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: the closest, they were also determined. Aaron and No they

546
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: were determined, but they were just they just wanted to

547
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: move on for something else. But they still was determined

548
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: to do music. But it was frustrating. We did a

549
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: lot of songs with boys, the men, went to a

550
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: lot of parties, and then in nineteen ninety seven it

551
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: all stop.

552
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 2: So Sudden Impact got signed at the time of New

553
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: Kids on the Block. They kept writing and recording demos

554
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 2: through the years when a boy band was pop music

555
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: poison and then parted ways at the exact moment boy

556
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: bands became big again with the right label. With any

557
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 2: consistent label or name, they could have had their moment.

558
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: The timing was just always exactly off. So what does

559
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: that feel like?

560
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 3: Like a letdown? I said, we're going to find something else,

561
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 3: you know, and went home.

562
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: And that's when we started having that being upset at

563
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: each other because everybody wanted to control everything because we

564
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: had gotten better with recording writing songs. So what I

565
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: want to write too? I want to write too. And

566
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: the majority of the writing was me and me and Todd.

567
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: We were like Leonard and McCartney. We were throwing them

568
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: out and so we started writing, and then everybody would

569
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: get frustrated because one didn't want to come to the

570
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: studio anymore, or somebody girlfriend they had to go see them,

571
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: or just had to focus.

572
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: Was starting to wane a little bit.

573
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: And I think what happened Aaron Aaron and Know they

574
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: wanted to do darker songs than what we were doing,

575
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: you know, sort of like a jobasy and this, that

576
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: and the other. So one time we had a meeting

577
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: and Aaron and Knows said we're going to start our

578
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: own band.

579
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, No Love Loss.

580
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: The Cane Brothers split off to start another vocal group

581
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: with their friend Donnie Evans, which they called DNA for

582
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: Donnie Noel Aaron the Outsiders fill the open positions with

583
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: two new guys, Jimmy Marble and Jason Dowdy. And he

584
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: won't be surprised by what happens next.

585
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: We found two more members to add to the group

586
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: and then called them Outsiders for Life.

587
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: Yes, that is right. So just to review, two Special

588
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 2: became Sudden Impact became White Guys became the Outsiders became

589
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: Outsiders for Life. And it is a Z instead of

590
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: an S at the end of Outsiders, and the four

591
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: is a number four. It's an eye in life, though

592
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: it's not a why they exercised some restraint. It's two

593
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 2: thousand by now. Insincts No Strings Attached is the number

594
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: one album of the year. Mariah Carey is filming Glitter.

595
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: The Rolling Stones are playing smaller venues on their No

596
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: Security Comeback Tour. Eminem wins Best Rap Performance for My

597
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: Name Is, and Will Smith recovers from the failure of

598
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: the movie Wild Wild West with the album Willennium Outsider's

599
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: four Life recorded an album in two thousand for Blackground Records,

600
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: a Leah's label. It was never released. Aaron's new project,

601
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: DNA didn't get too much traction either, and his brother

602
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: Noel and his old friends in such an impact or

603
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: whatever you're calling them in your head right now all

604
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: went home to Virginia.

605
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,719
Speaker 4: So from there, everybody else went back to Virginia. I

606
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 4: didn't go back to Virginia because I met a girl

607
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 4: here in South Jersey, and when that whole thing happened,

608
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 4: I actually met her at a Boys of Man concert.

609
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 5: That's funny perfect.

610
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: Aaron stayed behind with his new girlfriend, who would become

611
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: his wife, and he started a solo career under his

612
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: own name on another new label, Invigorator Records. Flash forward

613
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: to two thousand and six. The number one album of

614
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: the year is the soundtrack to the Disney Channel original

615
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: movie High School Musical Mariah Carey is Back with the

616
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 2: Emancipation of Mimi. The Rolling Stones are in the middle

617
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: of there a Bigger Bang Comeback Tour. Kanye West wins

618
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: Best Rap Perform Moments for gold Digger, Will Smith does

619
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 2: The Pursuit of Happiness, gets nominated for an Oscar and

620
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 2: in his old NBC Monday night time slot, a new

621
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: show debuts. It's called Heroes. It stars Hayden Pantier, who,

622
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: when we started this story back in nineteen eighty nine

623
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: was not born yet. Aaron Kane releases a solo single

624
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: called got a Love.

625
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 4: My song called Gota Love went to number seven.

626
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 5: On the R and B charts in two thousand and five, so.

627
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 4: Maybe made some significant amount of money, you know, with that.

628
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 4: We sold three hundred thousand copies of that independently, so

629
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 4: you know, that was very lucrative for us, and you know,

630
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 4: got to buy house and buy stuff. And so after that,

631
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 4: I did an album with them, Let That Out, did

632
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 4: pretty good, and then that.

633
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 2: Label folded Geez because the two of them had always

634
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: had a good relationship. Aaron and Tim reunited.

635
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 4: Me and him have been working on independent artists.

636
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 5: We do TV and film now.

637
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 4: Like I have a bunch of artists myself that I

638
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 4: deal with.

639
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 5: I still put out my own albums.

640
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 4: I just put out two new albums in the last

641
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 4: six months. One called Confused and another one called Love

642
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 4: Receipts that me and Tim produced all ourselves.

643
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 5: And we do TV and film.

644
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 4: We do stuff for independent artists, working on stuff for

645
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 4: Casey from Jobsee.

646
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 5: I just did a song with his niece.

647
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 4: I love letting out albums because I truly am an artist.

648
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 5: At heart, you know what I mean, Like that's where.

649
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 4: I came from from when I was seventeen eight years

650
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 4: eighteen years.

651
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 5: Old, Like that's what I did.

652
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 4: And what I love about doing music is that you

653
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 4: start with a blank canvas and you start with silence,

654
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 4: and at the end of the song you end up

655
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: with organized sounds and organized vocals and emotions, and and

656
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 4: then after you get done producing the song and mixing

657
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 4: down the song, it's like, wow, look what I have.

658
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: Look what I have, creative created.

659
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 5: Life, you know.

660
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just it's just a great feeling, you know,

661
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 4: after you get done.

662
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: Right. But it's been you know, the path was a

663
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 2: winding one to this point, and there were a lot

664
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 2: of a lot of moments that just didn't didn't pan

665
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 2: out well.

666
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 4: Of course, I would have loved to be a multi

667
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 4: platinum selling group, you know, I mean, I mean, that's

668
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 4: That's why when you're a little kid, you get in

669
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 4: to this industry because that's what you want, you know.

670
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 4: But I'm truly blessed that I've been blessed with a

671
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 4: talent that I can, like, I'll be seventy years old

672
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 4: producing the track.

673
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 2: You know, despite everything, Aaron Kane is in it for

674
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 2: the long haul and Tim Byrd feels the same way.

675
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: Are you happy that you took the ride?

676
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 3: Yes, very happy. I'm happy for the age talk about

677
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 3: you said the.

678
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,439
Speaker 2: Ride right, just the whole whole thing.

679
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was experienced. It allowed me to grow, you know,

680
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: That's why I love it. I enjoy it and and

681
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: actually prepares you for downtime whenever nothing's going on. You

682
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 1: don't stress out. You don't want to feel like you're

683
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: a nobody or anything like that.

684
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 3: But as I love it.

685
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you think the rest of the guys

686
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: felt about it? You said you don't want to feel

687
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 2: like a nobody? Do you do you think that they

688
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: ever felt that.

689
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 3: Way during those down times that we had.

690
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I don't think so.

691
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 3: None of us did. We were just determined. We didn't.

692
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: I don't think we had time to even think about

693
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: being depressed. We were just like, Noah, let's go, let's go,

694
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: let's go.

695
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: You know you mentioned earlier that there that you you're

696
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 2: not concerned about fame anymore. Is there? Do you remember

697
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: a moment where you were like, that's I'm finished with

698
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 2: that pursuit now.

699
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, early on, I think round about when I was with.

700
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: And being around that time period, and you get to

701
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: watch how other people respond to whatever success or lack thereof,

702
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: and you don't. I started to say, I said, I

703
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: don't want to be like that person. I believe that

704
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 1: we got it back in those days, I think we

705
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: would have been broke.

706
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 2: Now, talk me through what that looks like to you.

707
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: What you mean like the scenario in which Sudden Impact

708
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: had released a huge record.

709
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they released a huge record.

710
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: Be great for that time period, but remember music started

711
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: changing too.

712
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 3: How are we going to keep up with the change?

713
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: And when you're in front of the crowd, it's hard

714
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: for you to make that transition with music changes. We

715
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: were underneath the radar. Even though they were into videos,

716
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: they were still under the radar, so they had the

717
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: ability to grow when music was changing.

718
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 2: What's the guy's relationship with each other now? The five

719
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 2: of them, the original five.

720
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:53,879
Speaker 3: Okay, the original five.

721
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: Ok Yeah.

722
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: I talked to Aaron. Me and Aaron talk almost daily,

723
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: so I keep in touch with him. I just talked

724
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: to his brother no on Saturday, so I told him, Yeah,

725
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 1: I told him about the podcast.

726
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: He said, I really don't know what to say. I said,

727
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: they want to ask you about Sun Impact.

728
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: You know more of the ends than I do. I

729
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: just recorded you guys. Yeah, So I talked to him.

730
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: He's interested in trying to do it. Todd, who started

731
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: the group, Me and him, like I said, we were

732
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: like the Lenna McCartney of the group. And he's still

733
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: a great songwriter. And he's been doing country lately, great crunch.

734
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's doing great with that.

735
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 3: Dave, who's also in the group, we haven't seen him

736
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 3: in years, no now.

737
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: I think he wanted to get away from that whole

738
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: thing because he was kind of the quiet one anyway.

739
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: Alan Healey, which is Todd's best friend. Alan Heely, he

740
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: now owns a couple of computer repair stories.

741
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 3: He doesn't do music anymore. He still listens, but he

742
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 3: doesn't do music anymore.

743
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: But aside from Dave, everybody still keeps in contact. Yeah,

744
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 2: so I'm waiting on a reply from Noel Caine, and

745
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: Tim says he's going to put in a good word

746
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: for me with Todd White, who, if all goes well,

747
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 2: will put me in touch with Alan Healy. So from

748
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: the original lineup of Sudden Impact, that just leaves Dave,

749
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: a man I know only as Dave. No one I've

750
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 2: spoken to so far has his contact info. But now

751
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: I have four more full names of Sudden Impact members,

752
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: a few more names of Sudden Impact to the group,

753
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 2: so I can investigate a little more extensively. So I do,

754
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 2: and I find a lineup for Outsiders for Life. Todd

755
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 2: White is in there, Alan Healy is in there, plus

756
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: the new guys Jason Dowdy and Jimmy Marble, and the

757
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 2: fifth member of two specials Sudden Impact White guys, the

758
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: Outsiders Outsiders for Life. His name is Dave Smith. This

759
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 2: is going to be harder than I thought. Next time,

760
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to search the world for a Dave Smith,

761
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 2: and I will talk to someone who tasted success in

762
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties and then ran in a brand new direction.

763
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 2: His story. In the next episode of Waiting for Impact,

764
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 2: a Dave Holmes Passion Project. This has been an Exactly

765
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 2: Right production written by me Dave Holmes, produced by Hannah

766
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: Kyle Crichton, recorded, mixed and sound designed by Andrew Epen.

767
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 2: Additional engineering and assembly by Annalise Nelson. Music by Ben Wise,

768
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 2: artwork by Garrett Ross Executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia

769
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: hart Starr and Danielle Kramer. Follow the show on Instagram, Facebook,

770
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: and Twitter at exactly right and follow me at Dave Holmes.

771
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: For more information, go to Exactlyrightmedia dot com binge the

772
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 2: show add free on Stitcher Premium for a free month.

773
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: Head to Stitcher Premier dot com slash impact and enter

774
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: promo code Impact when you select a monthly plan, Subscribe

775
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 2: and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or

776
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts,