Speaker 1: Just tuning in a civic cipher. I'm your host, Ramsy's job.
Speaker 1: He is Ramsey's joh I m q ward. You are
Speaker 1: tuned into civic cipher.
Speaker 2: Indeed you are, and we need you to stick around
Speaker 2: because there's been a lot of crazy stuff happening lately,
Speaker 2: in particular attacks on diversity, equity and inclusion, and this
Speaker 2: is something that is very meaningful for us here on
Speaker 2: this show.
Speaker 1: We think that it is a very special.
Speaker 2: Endeavor that companies and other enterprises can undertake. And yet
Speaker 2: attacks coming from the right have started to become problematic,
Speaker 2: and they've started to influence people and cause people to
Speaker 2: question whether or not it's effective, or whether or not
Speaker 2: it is creating the opposite problem, you know, in terms
Speaker 2: of like discrimination against white people. And so we have
Speaker 2: to give you some tools to work against that, and
Speaker 2: a whole lot more. But the first and foremost, let's
Speaker 2: discuss becoming a better Allibaba Baba and Today's bob A
Speaker 2: sponsored by Friends of the Movement to support Black businesses
Speaker 2: and allied businesses. Sign up for the free voter wallet
Speaker 2: from fotmglobal dot com and make an impact with your spending. Again,
Speaker 2: that's Fotmglobal dot com and this comes from The Guardian.
Speaker 2: North Carolina Supreme Court judge is suing the state's Judicial
Speaker 2: Standards Commission for allegedly violating her.
Speaker 1: Rights to freedom of speech.
Speaker 2: After Judge Anita Earls made public comments about the lack
Speaker 2: of diversity in the North Carolina court system, the commission
Speaker 2: launched an investigation into her statements. According to a federal
Speaker 2: lawsuit filed by Earl's lawyers, the judge has been subjected
Speaker 2: to a series of month long intrusive investigations which have
Speaker 2: led to a chilling of.
Speaker 1: Her First Amendment rights.
Speaker 2: In a June article on Law three sixty, Earls pointed
Speaker 2: out the lack of diversity among North Carolina Supreme Court
Speaker 2: law clerks. Quote, if you look at who is hired
Speaker 2: to serve as clerks to the justices, we have plenty
Speaker 2: of female clerks, but on the racial diversity, we're lacking,
Speaker 2: Earl said in the interview, pointing out that there was
Speaker 2: only one black clerk and one Latina clerk employed in
Speaker 2: the court's latest term. Earls also said that she witnessed
Speaker 2: implicit bias in court, telling the publication she witnessed a
Speaker 2: black litigator being attacked unfairly by Earl's colleagues. Earl said
Speaker 2: the Court's racial equity trainings and committees to increase diversity
Speaker 2: and inclusion have been disbanded. Earl's, North Carolina's only black
Speaker 2: female Supreme Court justice, alleges that the commission is targeting
Speaker 2: her ability to critique the Court, especially on matters of diversity.
Speaker 2: The First Amendment provides me and every American the right
Speaker 2: to free speech and to bring to light imperfections and
Speaker 2: unfairness in our political and judicial systems. Earl said in
Speaker 2: a statement to The Guardian. I believe public confidence in
Speaker 2: the judiciary is best promoted by honestly looking at the facts,
Speaker 2: not by sweeping the truth under the rug or silencing dissenters.
Speaker 2: And using your voice as always is becoming a better ally,
Speaker 2: and we salute you.
Speaker 1: So onward.
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about attacks on DEI and why
Speaker 2: it's still beneficial.
Speaker 1: Let me do a little bit of reading to help
Speaker 1: paint a picture here.
Speaker 2: I'm going to read a bit from MIT Sloan Management Reviews.
Speaker 2: The title is countering the Corporate Diversity Backlash, and then
Speaker 2: the subheading says, as opponents of inclusive business practices grow
Speaker 2: more vocal leaders are backing down from diversity promises or
Speaker 2: going quiet. Here's what they should do instead, all right.
Speaker 2: Corporate diversity is facing backlash. Target A company that has
Speaker 2: carried merchandise celebrating LGBTQ plus pride or over a decade
Speaker 2: ordered some stores to remove such products after conservative activists
Speaker 2: accused the company of sexualizing children and organizing a boycott,
Speaker 2: and heyser Busch lost sales in response to a promotion
Speaker 2: with trans influencer Dylan mulvaney, costing bud Light it spot
Speaker 2: as America's best selling beer. Even Chick fil A, perhaps
Speaker 2: the prototype of corporate conservativism, with its opposition to same
Speaker 2: sex marriage and policy of closing on Sundays, recently came
Speaker 2: under attack from conservatives for employing an executive to lead
Speaker 2: its diversity, equity and inclusion efforts. Universities are also facing
Speaker 2: a diversity backlash. The US Supreme Court recently struck down
Speaker 2: race conscious admissions programs at Harvard and the University of
Speaker 2: North Carolina at Chapel Hill, ending race conscious admissions.
Speaker 1: Will likely have ripple effects.
Speaker 2: This unclear regulatory environment might discourage organizations from implementing current
Speaker 2: diversity efforts. While spurring some to explicitly exclude black, Latin,
Speaker 2: and indigenous groups. All right, let me stop here for
Speaker 2: a second. So what we're talking about is the intersection
Speaker 2: of corporate interests and the pursuit of a more progressive
Speaker 2: and inclusive society. Now, many people who are educated tend
Speaker 2: to find themselves being pushed toward more liberal views the
Speaker 2: more educated they become. That's true of most people. The
Speaker 2: more educated you become, the more liberal your views become. Right,
Speaker 2: that's not always true. There are many people who have
Speaker 2: graduated from very prestigious institutions that are deeply conservative. But
Speaker 2: if we look at the numbers, at least the numbers that.
Speaker 3: But I just want to interject to point out the
Speaker 3: difference between education and enlightenment. I think those that are
Speaker 3: more enlightened, sure, team tend to lead more liberal.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can get twenty seven degrees and still be
Speaker 3: a racist bigot.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, So it's not more educated, just more enlightened.
Speaker 2: Well no, no, no, So this is the thing. When
Speaker 2: you follow like those with more degrees with more with
Speaker 2: higher education, more years in academia, and then people who
Speaker 2: continue with their their that part will say enlightenment you know,
Speaker 2: just kind of beyond their academic studies. You find that
Speaker 2: people tend to be more liberal. The same thing with
Speaker 2: people who travel. With more exposure, more information, with more data,
Speaker 2: people tend to appreciate a lot of the similarities and
Speaker 2: the commonalities that we all share. This is my guess.
Speaker 2: This is not hard data, but again please for yourself
Speaker 2: look it up, because again, the more educated people are,
Speaker 2: the more liberal they tend to become. It's not a
Speaker 2: broad sweeping statement, it's just a tendency. So I suspect
Speaker 2: that a lot of these people who are leaders of
Speaker 2: these companies on some level know that a more liberal
Speaker 2: philosophy leads to more profits because it includes more people.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, and that's the part that makes it all
Speaker 1: so confusing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's what I'm going to say,
Speaker 1: a lot.
Speaker 3: Of our listeners don't know that. When I'm not sitting
Speaker 3: in front of a microphone with you, I'm traveling all
Speaker 3: over the United States having conversations on diversity, equity.
Speaker 1: Inclusion, also on user experience and user interface.
Speaker 3: Important to point that out because Uxui education has seen
Speaker 3: a boom companies like Google offering certificates for students to
Speaker 3: learn about ux ui and corporations paying a lot of
Speaker 3: money for people to research and implement things that make
Speaker 3: for a better experience for their users in real time
Speaker 3: or user interface for those who are using their apps
Speaker 3: or their websites, because they understand that if it is
Speaker 3: a more equitable experience for everyone, that they will make
Speaker 3: more money. The pushback comes when you say we want
Speaker 3: there to be a better experience for poor and black people.
Speaker 3: Then that's when they brustle in, cringe and push back,
Speaker 3: even though you're saying the same thing.
Speaker 2: Before we move there, though, let me flesh this out
Speaker 2: a little bit more so. The forces of capitalism push
Speaker 2: companies to pursue profit at the expense almost of everything else. Okay,
Speaker 2: the easiest groups to dismiss are poor people and brown
Speaker 2: people just because, uh, there's there's rarely a cavalry that
Speaker 2: comes to the aid of those people. If it's rich
Speaker 2: white people, you know, they are a lot more vocal,
Speaker 2: they have a lot more political influence, they have a
Speaker 2: lot more dollars, and they can spend with those dollars, and.
Speaker 1: People listen a little bit better.
Speaker 2: You know, we've been complaining about police violence since police
Speaker 2: violence existed, and there's still police violence.
Speaker 1: But I mean, the really the really interesting thing, Rams
Speaker 1: is that.
Speaker 3: Underrepresented groups, as you said, don't really have a cavalry
Speaker 3: that will you know, that will cause big change on
Speaker 3: their behalf. But in recent years, it used to be
Speaker 3: in bad taste, just in battle, to be a flagrantly
Speaker 3: a pex predator capitalist at the expense of, like you say, everything,
Speaker 3: everything and to be mean to people that were underrepresented
Speaker 3: and marginalized was in bad taste. Now that that's no
Speaker 3: longer the case thanks to our prior president, you see
Speaker 3: things like this happening at an alarming rate that the
Speaker 3: Supreme Court taking legislative measures measures i'm sorry, to remove
Speaker 3: racial sensitivity or just racial consideration and the admissions process.
Speaker 3: And people don't understand these programs didn't say disqualify white candidates,
Speaker 3: just consider others. Consider others should not be controversial. You
Speaker 3: know what's crazy about it here we are. What's crazy
Speaker 3: about that is that the legacy admissions that often fills
Speaker 3: the ranks of people that attend these prestigious institutions. Those individuals, again,
Speaker 3: their legacy admissions, they're not the most qualified with the
Speaker 3: best grades and the you know, they were on the
Speaker 3: swim team and the lacrosse team and whatever. They just
Speaker 3: were related to somebody else that went there.
Speaker 2: So that is the affirmative action for you know, non
Speaker 2: black people right there.
Speaker 1: If there's a legacy there then as if they needed it.
Speaker 1: But there's that in addition to okay, so watch this,
Speaker 1: let's let's tie together.
Speaker 2: So what you have is people that tend to be
Speaker 2: more educated, but then they intersect at corporate interests, the
Speaker 2: capitalistic interest, right and the most vulnerable people are black people.
Speaker 2: So you have some people in a position that might say,
Speaker 2: you know what, now that I see all these black
Speaker 2: people protesting is twenty twenty, let's see if we can
Speaker 2: provide some DEI initiatives to bring to bring black people
Speaker 2: back into the conversation. God knows, we've abused them and
Speaker 2: subjected them to or overlooked them for.
Speaker 1: Or even if we didn't abuse and we overlooked them.
Speaker 2: They're being abused all this time. Let's see if we
Speaker 2: can't support them. Plus, since all eyes are on black
Speaker 2: people right now, it's the cool thing to do, right.
Speaker 2: So I believe there was some hearted people who you know,
Speaker 2: along with their education, got a little bit more awareness
Speaker 2: or some smart capitalist because I don't want want benevolence
Speaker 2: either or both. Yeah, and that's that's what I'm trying
Speaker 2: to say. So you end up in this situation now
Speaker 2: where people put together these uh diversity, equity and inclusion endeavors,
Speaker 2: and you know what doesn't matter to us.
Speaker 1: We want results, right, We don't want talk. There's been talking.
Speaker 2: There was talking the sixties, talking, the seventies, eighties, nineties.
Speaker 3: You and I have spoken about this before. We want outcomes,
Speaker 3: outcomes there, and we can care. I care less about
Speaker 3: your intentions than the outcomes.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: So Nike promoted Colin Kaepernick when he was under attacked
Speaker 3: by the right and by the NFL because he kneeled
Speaker 3: against police brutality, and a lot of people thought that
Speaker 3: was an unpopular thing to do for Nike to support
Speaker 3: this man while he was, you know, in some people's eyes,
Speaker 3: bad for marketing or bad for pr. I don't know
Speaker 3: if Nike was being benevolent, I don't know, but stepping
Speaker 3: out like they did and supporting him in that moment
Speaker 3: meant a lot to me. It didn't matter if it
Speaker 3: was just so they could keep me as a customer.
Speaker 3: The out come meant this massive corporation, one of the
Speaker 3: best in the history of retail, supporting a man that
Speaker 3: was under fire for very very righteous beliefs, and it
Speaker 3: stirred up a sort of loyalty with their customers.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Nike is on the feet of most professional athletes, and
Speaker 3: in the major sports here, you know, football, the NFL,
Speaker 3: and the NBA being the most popular, the most popular,
Speaker 3: the most successful athletes in those sports are black. So
Speaker 3: they not just had they didn't just have a fiscal
Speaker 3: responsibility to their shareholders and to their customers, but all
Speaker 3: of their partners, all of the athletes that represent the brand,
Speaker 3: lots of black Latino you know, Asian and LGBTQ athletes
Speaker 3: have Nike swooshes on their feet and on their jerseys.
Speaker 3: So they had in their own heads of responsibility to
Speaker 3: support the movement. But I think somebody in that room
Speaker 3: also understood, hey, this could also be a good financial
Speaker 3: move for us. I don't care which person's voice was heard,
Speaker 3: the outcome was still resounding support for someone who needed it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's and I like that you said that
Speaker 2: briefly For those that don't know Q and I, before
Speaker 2: we did this show, we had a nonprofit where we
Speaker 2: fed homeless people. We were part of hashtag lunch Bag,
Speaker 2: the global initiative to feed homeless folks, and we had
Speaker 2: a chapter in our city under our own nonprofit, and
Speaker 2: we would go out on the streets and there would
Speaker 2: be people that would come out and feed people, and
Speaker 2: they would do.
Speaker 1: It because it was a popular event. We had DJs.
Speaker 2: It was fun, it was something to get out of
Speaker 2: the house on Sundays and they'd be out there taking
Speaker 2: selfies and look what I did.
Speaker 1: I fed some homeless people today.
Speaker 2: And the truth of the matter is that we never
Speaker 2: really pushed back on what people's intentions were because the
Speaker 2: result was that people were being fed. We did our
Speaker 2: best to protect the privacy of those who were on
Speaker 2: the streets. We didn't want them to excuse me, be
Speaker 2: subjected to any violations pr right. But for the people
Speaker 2: that showed up to the actual event were putting the
Speaker 2: sandwiches together, not the distribution part.
Speaker 1: For anybody that came there just to hang out, even.
Speaker 2: The people that didn't go to distribute, they just came
Speaker 2: and helped pack hygiene kits or you know, clean up
Speaker 2: shoes for us or whatever. As long as they came
Speaker 2: and did the work. However it benefited them personally, how
Speaker 2: whatever they wanted to get from it, that was not
Speaker 2: our concern. Our concern was to make sure that we
Speaker 2: were doing our best to support our unsheltered brothers and
Speaker 2: sisters here in Arizona. It's hot in Arizona. People die
Speaker 2: all the time just because it's too hot. They can't breathe.
Speaker 2: So we're trying to do something, and we were taking
Speaker 2: all comers. So get I get your story about Nike.
Speaker 2: But here's where things get a little hairy. So I'm
Speaker 2: gonna read a little bit more so. Diversity backlash puts
Speaker 2: companies in a difficult position. Bowing to pressure from anti
Speaker 2: diversity groups may cost them the goodwill they have tried
Speaker 2: to cultivate among other consumers. Targets capital capitulation sorry to
Speaker 2: conservative pressure earned it blowback from progressive activists. Backing down
Speaker 2: can also con sorry, I'm gonna start. Backing down can
Speaker 2: also encourage conservative activists to push their demands further. In
Speaker 2: other words, if conservatives feel like they're gaining ground, they're
Speaker 2: going to double and triple down. Right, this is how
Speaker 2: we lost affirmative action, something that stood in the courts
Speaker 2: for decades that really did impact outcomes for people, even
Speaker 2: the people that are mad, even the Candace Owens of
Speaker 2: the world, even the people that didn't like affirmative actions,
Speaker 2: they benefited from it. And it's on record them saying
Speaker 2: that they benefited from it. For those that don't know,
Speaker 2: Candace Owns is somebody that I don't even need to
Speaker 2: explain to you, So don't.
Speaker 1: Worry about it.
Speaker 3: So Supreme Court Justice, Oh yeah, Parence Thomas, Yeah yeah,
Speaker 3: also a beneficiary the affirmative action. I forgot about. I
Speaker 3: forgot about that. Yeah, So all right, let me continue reading.
Speaker 3: While it might temporarily reduce the pressure on companies, giving
Speaker 3: into anti diversity forces could hurt them over the long term.
Speaker 3: Demographics are changing. While with non whites making up an
Speaker 3: increasing portion of the coveted youth market and legal protections
Speaker 3: for LGBTQ plus Americans have broad support. Rooting out discrimination
Speaker 3: and increasing access to opportunity is essential to ensuring a
Speaker 3: rich talent pipeline, and for many individual managers and employees,
Speaker 3: anti discrimination is simply a moral imperative. Okay, So so
Speaker 3: far we're talking about companies trying to put together DEI
Speaker 3: initiatives making sure that black people are hired that they're.
Speaker 1: Promoted women, Yeah, Latin, Hispanic, Asian.
Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly, BIPOC people not having a C suite executive board,
Speaker 3: all your senior vice presidents being white men.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just different diversity, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: So again, these folks have leaned into these initiatives and
Speaker 2: trying to get more voices in the room, a more
Speaker 2: diverse set of people with more views and better insight
Speaker 2: into how to penetrate different cultures, cultures and markets that
Speaker 2: might be untapped, and just to be again a kind
Speaker 2: and follow that moral imperative that the article is talking about. Right,
Speaker 2: So this is what was happening in one Well give
Speaker 2: it a little bit of time, and the right pushes
Speaker 2: back saying things like, well, DII training doesn't work.
Speaker 1: It's like preaching to the choir.
Speaker 2: The only people that participate in that are people that
Speaker 2: you don't have to already don't have to worry about.
Speaker 2: And the people that aren't going to hear it aren't
Speaker 2: going to hear, and people are going to be tone
Speaker 2: deaf because it feels to them like reverse racism. We're
Speaker 2: promoting these people specifically because they look like this or
Speaker 2: they have this experience our.
Speaker 3: Same group making those claims supports and pushes for more
Speaker 3: training for police, because of course police wouldn't have those
Speaker 3: same implicit biases and turn the death are to something
Speaker 3: that's going to cause corrections and behaviors. Same group arguing
Speaker 3: for one, arguing against the other, exactly.
Speaker 2: And I'm going to add to that real quick. I'm
Speaker 2: going to add to that real quick, that police training
Speaker 2: doesn't work. Please check out our last episode if you
Speaker 2: missed it, where we talked about what you just said
Speaker 2: right there, just to kind of make that live a
Speaker 2: little bit more for you.
Speaker 3: And with the E programs, it's not just training there
Speaker 3: and there are initiatives that have to be implemented. There
Speaker 3: are measurable, deliverable outcomes that thank you to come as
Speaker 3: a result of that training. It's not like, hey, just
Speaker 3: be nice to your black coworker. You know, there's much
Speaker 3: more substance behind that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Again, it's not just hiring people, it's promoting people. It's
Speaker 2: listening to people. It's incorporating authentic stories and perspectives into
Speaker 2: your corporate culture culture.
Speaker 1: That's the way I was looking for.
Speaker 2: Thank you so again, with this pushback and a lot
Speaker 2: of you know, the media, the right wing and far
Speaker 2: right wing. Really the right wing is pretty far all
Speaker 2: of it, because Fox News is yeah, yeah, Fox News
Speaker 2: is pretty far. But you know, some of the stories
Speaker 2: I've seen covered in these right wing media outlets really
Speaker 2: try to suggest that DEI is something that only exists
Speaker 2: so that the people who make money from it can
Speaker 2: continue to make money from it. In other words, DEI speakers,
Speaker 2: DEI people that travel and like spend time with companies
Speaker 2: to try to help them implement, develop and implement a
Speaker 2: plan or a strategy that will be effective in and
Speaker 2: reshaping their corporate identity and their corporate culture. Those people
Speaker 2: only exist to continue to make money. That it's not
Speaker 2: they're not effective, and there are no outcomes, and that
Speaker 2: they cite the numbers. It's a three point six billion
Speaker 2: dollar industry, so naturally these people want to keep it going,
Speaker 2: and it's not effective and it doesn't work, and it
Speaker 2: results in blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: So exactly the same points could be used to support
Speaker 3: initiatives against every industry on earth, exactly for profit capitalist society.
Speaker 2: That's the point exactly. So watch this. There's an article
Speaker 2: that came out long before these pushbacks that really helps
Speaker 2: quantify really what's at stake? And I'm gonna just kind
Speaker 2: of share a little bit from you, but it comes
Speaker 2: from NPR. The headline reads, cost of racism US economy
Speaker 2: lost sixteen trillion.
Speaker 1: With a T.
Speaker 2: Remember we were talking three point six billion dollars. That's
Speaker 2: what DEI, the industry, the DII industry is worth. But
Speaker 2: the cost of racism US economy lost sixteen trillion because
Speaker 2: of discrimination. Bank says, okay, so look the article up,
Speaker 2: read it for yourself. But in short, this is because
Speaker 2: of lawsuits, but more importantly, it's because of marketing blenders. Again,
Speaker 2: there's corporate blind spots. When you don't have black people
Speaker 2: in your room and you offend black people or Hispanic
Speaker 2: people in the room, and then you spend offend Hispanic people,
Speaker 2: you spend money. Then you have to spend money making
Speaker 2: it right. Then you have to respend the money to
Speaker 2: try to penetrate those markets when they turned against you.
Speaker 1: You have to say this before we go.
Speaker 3: More than a thousand X lost on what it would
Speaker 3: cost to continue to implement the training, more than a
Speaker 3: thousand X and losses.
Speaker 2: Racism is strong, White supremacy is and they need to
Speaker 2: be real ride for it, riding for it. It's says
Speaker 2: sixteen trillion with the tea.
Speaker 1: And there's people that's riding for it, act like they
Speaker 1: didn't even know that number was true, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: that they do. But we are going to leave you
Speaker 1: with that and leave that right there. So once again,
Speaker 1: i'd like to thank you for tuning in the civic cipher.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Ramsey's job.
Speaker 3: He is Ramsey's joh I am q Ward and we
Speaker 3: just equally learned that racism is stronger than capitalism.
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: Well, that's crazy, yeah, yeah, man, it's it's a it's
Speaker 2: a it's an interesting world to be born into, to
Speaker 2: be born be be born black and have to make
Speaker 2: a go of it. And then if we try to
Speaker 2: bring attention to something, people say we're playing the victim.
Speaker 1: We have a victim mentality, and no, this is our reality.
Speaker 2: You think we want to live like this, You think
Speaker 2: we want to make a I want to make a
Speaker 2: show that's fun. Man. I don't want to make a
Speaker 2: show talking about all of my problems, but these need
Speaker 2: to be addressed and hopefully we've done right by you.
Speaker 1: If so, please do us a favor.
Speaker 2: Follow us on social media help us combat the trolls
Speaker 2: that we describe.
Speaker 1: Light share, Yeah, they leave us me positive comments. Yeah,
Speaker 1: leave us some positive comments.
Speaker 2: We're at Civic Cipher on all platforms, uh and we'd love.
Speaker 1: To hear from you. And until next week, y'all peace,