Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you're wondering. When I said, you know what,
Speaker 1: I want to interview in Mortal Technique, people kind of
Speaker 1: looked at me like, wait, what why?
Speaker 2: Violent lunatic.
Speaker 1: From Fudur Media and BrX. It's Latino USA. I'm Mariano
Speaker 1: Josa today a portrait of rapper Immortal Technique. So why
Speaker 1: don't you introduce yourself?
Speaker 2: My name is Felipe Cornell. A lot of people know
Speaker 2: me as a Mortal Technique, Immortal Technique, stuck in your thoughts,
Speaker 2: talking in dreams. No one's as good as me, just
Speaker 2: got better marketing schemes.
Speaker 1: Born in Peru, as Phelippe Coronel in Mortal Technique is
Speaker 1: a legendary underground hip hop artist known for his skills
Speaker 1: on the mic as well as for his raw, super
Speaker 1: political lyrics.
Speaker 2: You listen this ponts of my corporations. That's why Halliburton
Speaker 2: gets paid the rebuilt nations. Tell me the truths. I
Speaker 2: don't scare into paralysis. I know this. CIA saw been
Speaker 2: Latin on dialysis in ninety eight when he was top
Speaker 2: ten for the FBI. Government ties is really what it?
Speaker 2: Government lies redigious.
Speaker 1: His family immigrated to Harlem New York from Peru when
Speaker 1: he was just a toddler to escape the armed conflict there.
Speaker 1: He grew up in Harlem during the eighties and nineties,
Speaker 1: at a time when New York City was notoriously rough checked.
Speaker 2: The Czech costant struggled to make the payments work in
Speaker 2: your whole life, wondering when a day when the subway
Speaker 2: stays packed like a multicultural slave ship is Russhawa thirty
Speaker 2: to eight nonstopping the people come and home app the corporate.
Speaker 1: Share cropperty Pettybas says that because of the way that
Speaker 1: he grew up, he harbored a lot of rage, and
Speaker 1: eventually that rage led him to prison. He was incarcerated
Speaker 1: for a year during his college years for assault related offenses.
Speaker 1: While he was in prison, he honed his rapping skills,
Speaker 1: and when he was paroled in nineteen ninety nine, he
Speaker 1: took up freestyle rap battling. He became a champion in
Speaker 1: the underground New York City battling scene. Just two years later,
Speaker 1: he released his first album, Revolutionary Volume One, which launched
Speaker 1: him to fame, eventually collaborating with famous artists such as
Speaker 1: Dead Prez, Most Deaf and Chuck d of Public Enemy,
Speaker 1: but his brutal song Dance with the Devil is what
Speaker 1: he mostly became known for.
Speaker 2: He started hanging out selling bags in the projects, checking
Speaker 2: the young chicks looking for more.
Speaker 1: Recently, Mortal Technique has turned to philanthropy activism, but he
Speaker 1: also continues writing music with his trademark focus on Harlem,
Speaker 1: our favorite neighborhood. I sat down with Immortal Technique in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen to hear about his life and how he
Speaker 1: used his rage to get to where he is now.
Speaker 1: As fans hold their breath for the release of his
Speaker 1: first album in over ten years, we thought the time
Speaker 1: was right to bring that conversation back to you today.
Speaker 1: Just a heads up. In this interview there will be
Speaker 1: some discussions about rape and sexual violence. So, Felippe, you
Speaker 1: were born in Peru. Where in Peru?
Speaker 2: I was born in ros Pittelmilita de Lima.
Speaker 1: And what area of Lima.
Speaker 2: I lived in a place called sam martin Bors. I
Speaker 2: have a house there now. It's very much like Harlem
Speaker 2: in the sense that it was, you know, a dilapidated
Speaker 2: neighborhood for years, even though it has its originations in
Speaker 2: a very very upscale area. Right fifty eighty years ago,
Speaker 2: and then it turned into a slum. And it's funny
Speaker 2: because you know, my father, who grew up in Peru,
Speaker 2: who thought he would live his whole life there, experienced
Speaker 2: you know, five thousand percent inflation in a year, a
Speaker 2: virtual civil war between you know, MAOIs gorillas and a
Speaker 2: CIA backed paramilitaries, and in order to find peace and quiet,
Speaker 2: he moved to Harlem in the nineteen eighties. And that's
Speaker 2: the life I began to live. I'm on the border
Speaker 2: of Bolivia, work for pennies, treated like a slave. The
Speaker 2: poker fields have to be very discovered. Of my people
Speaker 2: is starving, broken and sweaty, and treatment about the revolution,
Speaker 2: looking that ma machete. As a youth, I would go
Speaker 2: back there whenever. My parents. We wouldn't buy like fancy things,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. We didn't have the newest
Speaker 2: toys or something like that. If we got them, we
Speaker 2: got them off secondhand. And my clothes all came from
Speaker 2: a church. Everything that we had was saving up to
Speaker 2: go home to see my family and to make sure
Speaker 2: that we maintained that cultural connection, because I think it
Speaker 2: was it was very important for my parents to make
Speaker 2: me understand what it meant to be here and to
Speaker 2: have those opportunities. It definitely was an eye opener in
Speaker 2: the sense that it exposed poverty to me in a
Speaker 2: way I had never seen it. In America, you live
Speaker 2: with the illusion of a safety net, right, the illusion
Speaker 2: of the safety net. You're gonna have Medicare, you got
Speaker 2: social Security, all these things are gonna take care of you.
Speaker 2: And I think out in Bedu, it was more like
Speaker 2: you're swimming in the ocean alone and you realize that
Speaker 2: you're swimming in the ocean alone.
Speaker 1: At what point did you, as Philippe, as a young person,
Speaker 1: did you begin to kind of process, well, there's this reality,
Speaker 1: but then there's the illusion, because so much of your
Speaker 1: work as an artist, as a musician is about kind
Speaker 1: of pulling back the cover.
Speaker 2: In terms of the world itself. I think my father
Speaker 2: was one of the first best teachers I had, Like
Speaker 2: he was recruited out of the Peruvian military to be
Speaker 2: at Columbia University. But it wasn't until I started actually
Speaker 2: studying human beings that I came to certain realizations about
Speaker 2: the society that we live in. It wasn't an epiphany
Speaker 2: that I came to these realizations. I think it was
Speaker 2: more of a slow burn of realizing that they were
Speaker 2: just one other layer, one other thing. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: a person who's visibly Latino, but you know, my mom's
Speaker 2: father is black originally his families from the Caribbean. So
Speaker 2: I grew up with a very, very different idea of
Speaker 2: African Indigenous Latino relations. You know, in many ways, I
Speaker 2: witnessed a lot of people, both especially Puerto Ricans and
Speaker 2: Dominicans that I grew up with friends of mine that
Speaker 2: were in total denial of their African ancestry. And I'm
Speaker 2: looking at them and I'm like, dude, you're blacker than Pepper,
Speaker 2: and you're talking about how you're not black. You're calling
Speaker 2: people Brieto and all these other names, and you're talking
Speaker 2: about your mom. You know that, right, just like the
Speaker 2: Spanish ex terminating tin News, raping the black and Indian women,
Speaker 2: creating lazihos support.
Speaker 1: Your parents had a lot of hopes, maybe about the
Speaker 1: illusion of the United States. You're actually going to at
Speaker 1: that time, You're going to one of the best public
Speaker 1: schools in New York City.
Speaker 2: That's the reason my parents stayed in the city. They
Speaker 2: were originally going to move to Canada for the free healthcare,
Speaker 2: and I got into I was living in Harlem and
Speaker 2: I got into Hunter.
Speaker 1: So when you say Hunter, that's Hunter College High School,
Speaker 1: which is this public school in New York City. It's
Speaker 1: very high performing. You can test into it, so you
Speaker 1: have to be super bright to get in. And speaking
Speaker 1: of Hunter College High School, we've got to bring up
Speaker 1: somebody who has also been on Latino USA a couple
Speaker 1: of times, Lean Manuel Miranda. You know, the accusation is
Speaker 1: that you were actually a bully to Lean Manuel, that
Speaker 1: you he says you terrorized kids and that you even
Speaker 1: threw him in a trash can.
Speaker 3: Well, his rapper name is Immortal Technique. He's one of
Speaker 3: the most sort of politically ideological. He really made sort
Speaker 3: of an incredible life for himself as a rapper. Right,
Speaker 3: he was a school bully and he terrorized kids. He
Speaker 3: throw them in the garbage. I got thrown in the
Speaker 3: garbage by him.
Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting? And yeah, he was a really angry kid.
Speaker 1: And how are you and lean Manuel? How is that?
Speaker 2: No? We talked and he was like, Yo, I'm sorry
Speaker 2: about the way the story came out. I mean to
Speaker 2: say that you were like the most wicked person in
Speaker 2: the world. And obviously, you know, you change as an
Speaker 2: individual since then, and we have been on good terms.
Speaker 2: You know, I've never had like an outstanding issue because
Speaker 2: of that particular interview. It was more about what other
Speaker 2: people have brought into the conversation, because, to be honest,
Speaker 2: he wasn't the only one that got thrown in the
Speaker 2: trash can. There were dozens of people thrown in the
Speaker 2: trash can. I was a definite, definite violent person, and
Speaker 2: I think that the contrast came because I was expected
Speaker 2: to be a certain way at school, and then when
Speaker 2: I left school, a lot of the kids from school
Speaker 2: didn't have to deal with the same repercussions and same
Speaker 2: issues that I had to. It's like cambodiatic killing fields uptown.
Speaker 2: We live in distress and hang the flag upside down
Speaker 2: the sound of conservative politicians on television. People in the
Speaker 2: hood are blinds, so they tell us to listen. They
Speaker 2: vote for us to go to war instantly, but none
Speaker 2: of their JITs serving the infantry to all just stacked
Speaker 2: against us like a casino. Think about it, most of
Speaker 2: the army is black and Latino. The rage and anger
Speaker 2: that I experienced as a kid was from living in
Speaker 2: that dual life, you know what I mean, from going
Speaker 2: to a good school with a bunch of people who
Speaker 2: you know, maybe sometimes would have a gratitude problem, and
Speaker 2: then me going home to Harlem, which was just totally different.
Speaker 2: Like with Harlem, I reminded people in nineteen eighty eight
Speaker 2: eighty seven, it was.
Speaker 1: Tough, yo, it was tough.
Speaker 2: I mean, my brother's out Paul of me came home
Speaker 2: one day and a dude no lie in front of
Speaker 2: my building down on the street corner, knocked his air
Speaker 2: conditioner out and it hit a lady in the head,
Speaker 2: and he pulled out a rifle and just started firing
Speaker 2: at people. I never discussed these things. Other kids maybe
Speaker 2: had therapy to talk about it. I didn't have no therapy,
Speaker 2: So I maybe a lot of the things that I
Speaker 2: had seen and witnessed really kind of changed stuff. Like
Speaker 2: a lot of kids. Sure you lived in New York,
Speaker 2: but you didn't see the same things that I saw.
Speaker 1: What's the problem. So at one time you were asked
Speaker 1: about the bullying and the violence, and you said, quote,
Speaker 1: I guess at seventeen, it was hard for me to
Speaker 1: see that the person I was really fighting was myself.
Speaker 2: I chose violence to be the tool of deconstructing other
Speaker 2: people's issues, and it led to creating more issues to myself.
Speaker 2: So every time someone thought just because he's smart, he soft,
Speaker 2: I reminded them every day that I would hurt them
Speaker 2: in some way. Like everything about me was structured to
Speaker 2: fight with people. To be honest, While I imagine that
Speaker 2: I liked that, at the time, really inside of me,
Speaker 2: I didn't like that. It wasn't something that I enjoyed.
Speaker 2: It was something that I saw as a necessity. It's
Speaker 2: touch and go. It's not like I was just a
Speaker 2: purely wicked kid.
Speaker 1: So the rage actually lends you in prison? Is it
Speaker 1: in prison where you basically decide that that's where you
Speaker 1: want to move into rap? Or how is it that
Speaker 1: you decide rap is the place where you're going to
Speaker 1: find your expression.
Speaker 2: I think one of the things about prison isn't that
Speaker 2: it decided to make me choose rap as a career.
Speaker 2: I chose rap in prison as a form of meditation,
Speaker 2: as a form of finding peace. I was thrown in
Speaker 2: the hole one time. For people who don't know what
Speaker 2: that is. That solitary ca infinement where you basically live
Speaker 2: in and exist in a very dark space. Native American
Speaker 2: cat named Judge. He came by my cell and he
Speaker 2: shoved a piece of paper and like a half broken
Speaker 2: pencil in the cell and he was like, Yo, man,
Speaker 2: don't go crazy in there. And I really, man, you know,
Speaker 2: if there's a person out there who I owe, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean to pay their rent, it's definitely Judge,
Speaker 2: because man, that piece of paper was covered with so
Speaker 2: many writing it looked like like I only had one
Speaker 2: piece of paper to write on. So it was like
Speaker 2: I wrote on all the lines that I wrote on
Speaker 2: the sides, and I wrote on the other sides, I
Speaker 2: wrote on the back, I wrote on the outside lines.
Speaker 2: This thing was like the Holy Grail. And get caught
Speaker 2: in a hustle to let him know that I died
Speaker 2: while I fought in a struggle from the hood rats,
Speaker 2: the rich kids, lost in the bubble spray painted on
Speaker 2: the street set in the subway. So I used to.
Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino, USA, we talk about Immortal Technique's
Speaker 1: first album and this song that launched his career, Stay
Speaker 1: with Us.
Speaker 2: One night more than a Self, And then I saw
Speaker 2: the way they portrayed us that everyone else that coached
Speaker 2: us the whole see the worse than ourselves. Glad that,
Speaker 2: in fact, the whole time you are heart and ourselves.
Speaker 1: I used one night, One night, Hey We're back, And
Speaker 1: when we left off, Immortal Technique was telling us about
Speaker 1: how he got into rap. We're gonna pick up now
Speaker 1: with his first album and the infamous song Dance with
Speaker 1: the Devil. Justa heads up in this section of the conversation,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about rape and sexual violence. You
Speaker 1: released Revolutionary Volume one that was your first album in
Speaker 1: two thousand and one, and on that album is basically
Speaker 1: the song that launched your career, Dance with the Devil,
Speaker 1: which I was listening to it this morning in preparation again.
Speaker 1: Just yeah no, and I'm sitting here like.
Speaker 2: They drove around a project slow while it was raining,
Speaker 2: smoking Blunt's, drinking and joking for entertainment until they saw
Speaker 2: a woman on a street walking along three in the morning,
Speaker 2: coming back from work on their way home, and so
Speaker 2: they quietly shot out the car and followed her walking
Speaker 2: through the projects. The darkness swallowed her. They wrapped the
Speaker 2: shirt around their head and knocked the roll to the floor.
Speaker 1: This is it, kid, What was it about to Dance
Speaker 1: with the Devil that you think launched your career?
Speaker 2: Essentially, I could give you a million different answers, but
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you the ugliest one. Everybody either knows
Speaker 2: someone or has been sexually assaulted themselves, And I think
Speaker 2: the song came at a time when people were trying
Speaker 2: to kind of weed through a new generation of hip
Speaker 2: hop during the two thousand era and looking for who
Speaker 2: had kind of substance in the music. We never had
Speaker 2: a song about rape ever in hip hop. Ever, we've
Speaker 2: probably discussed that it's been thrown around, but a song
Speaker 2: in which we showed how that really means you're raping yourself,
Speaker 2: you're destroying yourself. And then the underlying themes of its sister,
Speaker 2: which are that all human beings that are alive right
Speaker 2: now have to be related. And I wanted that point
Speaker 2: to resonate in the people's minds when they were out
Speaker 2: there listening to that music. I'm pull in and I
Speaker 2: can't surve back. Right before he pulled it and the
Speaker 2: end of the life, he thought about the Copaine with
Speaker 2: the platum ice, and he felt strong standing along with
Speaker 2: his new brothers. Cocked it to a head and pulled
Speaker 2: back the shirt cover. But what he saw made him
Speaker 2: start to cringe and stutter because he was staring into
Speaker 2: the eyes of his own mother. She looked back. The
Speaker 2: benchmark of Western society that people base all of European
Speaker 2: civilization on monarchies, is Rome. And when you look at
Speaker 2: Rome as a society, you say, where did Rome begin?
Speaker 2: We see that the beginning of Roman society begins with
Speaker 2: an act called the rape of the Sabines. And I
Speaker 2: think that's a part of all of our genetic memory.
Speaker 2: I think every single little human being who's living right
Speaker 2: now is a product of rape at some particular point,
Speaker 2: and they've just never dealt with that. The trauma exists
Speaker 2: within them as a genetic memory. Some of them have
Speaker 2: that in their bloodstream, more recent than others. When you
Speaker 2: look at it, it's incredibly humbling as a man to
Speaker 2: realize that I stand upon the achievements of murderers and
Speaker 2: rapists to claim the position of power that I have
Speaker 2: in this society. You could be standing right next to
Speaker 2: you and you wouldn't know the devil pros inside the
Speaker 2: hearts of the selfish white, brown, yellow, and black color.
Speaker 2: That's not restricted what.
Speaker 1: Comes up for you as you're processing that song.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a difficult thing to talk about only
Speaker 2: because there are women in my family and people I've
Speaker 2: known my whole life that have been survivors of rape.
Speaker 2: And you know, obviously it's it's not my choice whether
Speaker 2: I share their story. It's not my place without their permission.
Speaker 2: But I felt like I wanted to draw some idea
Speaker 2: towards the disgusting nature of what it is and how
Speaker 2: it actually has a huge place in our human society.
Speaker 1: It's really tough to hear that. And so when I've
Speaker 1: been able to listen to, for example, your love song,
Speaker 1: you never know, people.
Speaker 2: Like you set out so paraut to be a problem
Speaker 2: with the bronsuse de bo.
Speaker 1: Which I just love because you know, you talk about
Speaker 1: taking your love whether to the Metropolitan Museum about or
Speaker 1: to Mussel del Barrio, you know, and seriously, just hearing
Speaker 1: that in a rap song, that's a love song. That's
Speaker 1: a side of you, you know, the gentle kind of
Speaker 1: romantic side.
Speaker 2: There is a romantic side, Yeah, I remember the I
Speaker 2: think I've written a lot of interesting tweets. I think
Speaker 2: one of the ones that went the most viral is
Speaker 2: I don't know how many thousands it had, but I
Speaker 2: I wrote something and I said, you know, if I
Speaker 2: really like her, I might buy her flowers. I said,
Speaker 2: but if I love her, I'll write her a story.
Speaker 2: After all, What good are flowers when you can create
Speaker 2: a universe just for her. Writing brought me out of
Speaker 2: misery and pain, you know, like a lot of Volume
Speaker 2: one that you hear is a lot of rage and anger.
Speaker 2: But that's anger and rage that's taken out of me.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes if I really love somebody, I would
Speaker 2: write something for them, something that would help them heal,
Speaker 2: something that would put their problems, whatever it is that
Speaker 2: I know about them, into the proper perspective. Little credit cards,
Speaker 2: game and jewelry stealing, crack selling, lick a store Robin.
Speaker 1: So, in twenty eleven, you released rich Man's World. You know,
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, it feels like you were
Speaker 1: kind of expecting a Donald Trump to appear on the
Speaker 1: scene before a lot of other people were.
Speaker 2: I mean, I put out a lot of messages in
Speaker 2: the music some people that some people at first accused
Speaker 2: me of being a conspiracy theorist. But here's an interesting thing.
Speaker 2: What were my big conspiracies on Revolutionary Volume two that
Speaker 2: the Iraq War was based off lies. I then brought
Speaker 2: up that the government was listening to all your emails
Speaker 2: and tapping your phone, and people said, that's absurd technique.
Speaker 2: You live, you live in nineteen eighty four, that's never
Speaker 2: gonna happen. And look what happened. So the idea that
Speaker 2: the demagogue at Gaudio would come in isn't something that
Speaker 2: is part of the radical imagination of someone who lives
Speaker 2: in the never ending story. It's something that was eventually
Speaker 2: going to happen here in the United States because they
Speaker 2: don't want my dirty laundry. And when I fight it,
Speaker 2: forget my lawyers excited, because what good is the law
Speaker 2: if you can't rewrite it. I got seat eight traders, dictators,
Speaker 2: Yad was the blowers in hats hurt. Indeed, all of
Speaker 2: this money from out there, A lot.
Speaker 1: Of Latinos and Latinas immigrants are waking up and they're
Speaker 1: feeling powerless, angry, filled with rage, confused, sometimes hopeless. How
Speaker 1: are you translating those emotions into your art right now?
Speaker 2: One of the things I started doing is I started
Speaker 2: working with various human rights organizations. That's something that has
Speaker 2: always given me a really grounded sense of peace. One
Speaker 2: of them, of course, was the Border Angels, the people
Speaker 2: that leave water drops and food drops for those people
Speaker 2: walking through the desert. And the other was a group
Speaker 2: that I feel doesn't receive enough attention as well. It's
Speaker 2: called the Green Card Veterans, and these are people who,
Speaker 2: some of them served in multiple theaters of war. I
Speaker 2: think people need to realize a lot of these individuals
Speaker 2: have been deported or are fighting deportation.
Speaker 1: Is there any of your writings recently that you can
Speaker 1: share with us about those issues about the creed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's actually a song I have. I can't spit
Speaker 2: it right now because I know my producer listen. I mean,
Speaker 2: we've kept this under wrap so hard.
Speaker 1: One line, one line, A great hustler.
Speaker 2: I love you, you got a good hustle.
Speaker 1: No, I think that what we're.
Speaker 2: Talking about is a song that describes the uh. We
Speaker 2: touched on it earlier, the depression and the suicide of
Speaker 2: people who have gone to war. And part of that
Speaker 2: was talking about this particular issue.
Speaker 1: So what is immortal technique processing now as a musician,
Speaker 1: as an American? Where is it coming together for you?
Speaker 1: My son? Of course, who was your biggest fan, was like,
Speaker 1: how come he hasn't.
Speaker 2: Written No, no, no, no, I've written plenty of stuff.
Speaker 2: I just haven't I haven't released it, and there's a
Speaker 2: lot of reasons for that.
Speaker 1: Okay. So the question of your many many many fans,
Speaker 1: you know that, the question is your dad, your mom.
Speaker 1: We want to know when's the next tech song that
Speaker 1: we can Okay.
Speaker 2: I actually do have a couple of features coming out,
Speaker 2: which are just songs that I'm on for other people's projects.
Speaker 2: And then in terms of the record that I have,
Speaker 2: I'm closer than I've.
Speaker 1: Ever been and we're looking forward to hearing it too.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Immortal Technique, Felippe Coronelle, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for all of your work.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me here. The middle
Speaker 2: Passage coming soon, sp and a building I do Mecca,
Speaker 2: Harlem Brooklyn you already.
Speaker 1: Know Harlem and that that was Rapper Immortal Technique. Our
Speaker 1: episode was produced by Maggie Friedlin, who was edited by
Speaker 1: Marlon Bishop and mixed by Stephanie Lebau. The Latino USA
Speaker 1: team includes Julia Caruso, Jessica Ellis, Victoria Estrada, Renaldo Leanos, Junior,
Speaker 1: Andrea Lopez Grussado, Luis Bluna, Frori, Mard Marquez, Marta Martinez,
Speaker 1: Nor Saudi and Nancy Frujillo. Benilee Ramirez is our co
Speaker 1: executive producer I'm Your Host and also co executive producer
Speaker 1: Mario Josa. Join us again on our next episode. In
Speaker 1: the meantime, We'll see you on all of our social
Speaker 1: media Lteva, Yes Bye.
Speaker 4: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation,
Speaker 4: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide,
Speaker 4: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and the
Speaker 4: Heising Simons Foundoundation Unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More at
Speaker 4: hsfoundation dot org.
Speaker 1: We could go on for a while, but wherever