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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to food Stuff. I'm Lauren Vogelum and

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Speaker 1: I'm any Ries, and we are your hosts. And uh,

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Speaker 1: today we're talking about something that is completely horrifying, historically

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Speaker 1: and modernly. Sugar. Yea, yea if I'm ruined that cupcake

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Speaker 1: you were just about to shove into your mouth. I

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Speaker 1: definitely started researching this while eating a cupcake and then

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Speaker 1: felt really bad about my entire life. I was eating

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Speaker 1: a piece of cake, which I think you guys probably

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Speaker 1: have seen. It's a little short promo we did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we definitely we didn't explode a piece of cake, but

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Speaker 1: we exploded some things on top of a piece of cake. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we may or may not have disconnected the fire alarm.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it's certainly if there's anyone from any federal

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Speaker 1: agencies involved listening to this, we can neither confirm nor

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Speaker 1: deny any kind of action to that extent. And the way,

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Speaker 1: how dare you? And the flames were really only like

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Speaker 1: a foot high, so it was fine. Um, But yes, sugar,

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Speaker 1: in addition to being horrifying, it's also like biologically an

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Speaker 1: essential substance in our diets. I mean, cupcakes aren't really,

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Speaker 1: but sugar itself. Um, because because our selves breakdown sugars

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Speaker 1: and other carbohydrates to generate chemical energy, which is probably

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Speaker 1: why UM. A lot of animals, like like humans and

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Speaker 1: rats and dogs and other living things are are primed

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Speaker 1: to detect and to enjoy sweet foods. Yes, and boy

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Speaker 1: do we enjoy them. We do. They're delicious. Do you

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Speaker 1: have a sweet tooth? Any? Are you more of a

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Speaker 1: you know? The funny thing is I used to not.

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Speaker 1: I was when I was a kid on Halloween, I

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Speaker 1: would go around and get the best Halloween candy and

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Speaker 1: I would sell it over the next couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: and I'd make a nice profit off. That's amazing, young entrepreneur. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but when I got a college, something kicked in and

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Speaker 1: now it's baked good. So those are like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: number one downfall. I've I've always had a sweet tooth

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Speaker 1: for like everything, it's it's great, is it? Nope? Let's

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Speaker 1: let's get the like the like basic definition and science

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Speaker 1: out of the way here. So when when we say sugar,

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Speaker 1: what are we talking about? We're generally referring to refined

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Speaker 1: white granulated sugar also called sucros or table should not

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Speaker 1: fruit sugar. The kind that naturally occurs and foods. Sucros

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Speaker 1: is a soluble carbohydrate, and like all carbohydrates, is composed

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Speaker 1: of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, and it's a dice accharide,

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Speaker 1: or the product of two monosaccharide sugars. Fructose and glucose

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Speaker 1: clump together, which for practical purposes means that when your

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Speaker 1: body deals with sucros, it has to break those compone

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Speaker 1: it's apart before it can use it. There are lots

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Speaker 1: of naturally occurring sugars other than sucros um lactose and galactose,

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Speaker 1: which are milk sugars UM, the aforementioned fructos found in

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Speaker 1: honey and some plants, maltos from barley, et cetera, UM,

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Speaker 1: and they all have slightly different chemical properties like that

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Speaker 1: the number of carbon and hydrogen and oxygen atoms and

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Speaker 1: differences in the way that those atoms bond. But but

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Speaker 1: basically chemically speaking UM in chemistry speak, as Annie I

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Speaker 1: think wrote in the notes, um sugars come with the

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Speaker 1: suffix ose. So if you're looking on those food labels

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Speaker 1: and you see an oase, it's a sugar. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's likely UM. As far as the etymology goes. The

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Speaker 1: first written use of sucros comes to us from an

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Speaker 1: English chemist, William Alan Miller in eighteen fifty seven Elements

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Speaker 1: of Chemistry Party, and is derived from the French word sucra. Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: sugar is mainly used for flavor, pretty obvious, but it's

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Speaker 1: also you in preserving foods and fermentation um, and for

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Speaker 1: its chemical properties and like candy making and baking and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. And like we said earlier, we love

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Speaker 1: this stuff. The USDA forecast that one seventy four million

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Speaker 1: tons where we produced in seventeen, with Brazil being the

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Speaker 1: largest producer, and BCC Research a which which is a

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Speaker 1: market research company, projected that the value of the industry

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Speaker 1: will be worth about eighty two billion dollars this year.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so we'd so we dig sugar. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: ruin it for you. Yeah, sugar does not dig us

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Speaker 1: is kind of the problem. Nope, And you've probably heard

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Speaker 1: a lot about this lately. It's kind of a popular

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Speaker 1: topic of discussion and science right now. Yeah, especially surrounding

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Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot more public discussion of

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Speaker 1: high fructose corn syrup than of actual like sugar. Sucrose

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Speaker 1: table sugar sugar, But but both are pretty chemically similar. Um,

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Speaker 1: the differences between the two and how our bodies handle

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Speaker 1: them is kind of complicated, but but basically both are

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Speaker 1: made up of fructose and glucose. It's it's about a

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Speaker 1: fifty mix in sugar and about a fifty mix and

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Speaker 1: high fructose corn syrup. Hence the high fructose part, and

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Speaker 1: our bodies processed fructose and glucose differently based on a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of complicated factors, some of which we'll get

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Speaker 1: into a bit here, But most of the health concerns

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Speaker 1: revolve around around added sugars. Yeah, adding sugar to food

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Speaker 1: hand significantly raise the calories and doesn't have much in

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Speaker 1: the way of nutritional value, and it doesn't make you

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Speaker 1: feel any fuller. Okay, sure, but really, how much of

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Speaker 1: the food that we eat can possibly contain added sugars?

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Speaker 1: Of the products in the United States food supply contain

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Speaker 1: added sweeteners, so so a bunch a bunch of them

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Speaker 1: can According to the World Health Organization, you should be

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Speaker 1: getting less than ten percent of your daily color take

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Speaker 1: from added sugars, and ideally less than five percent five percent.

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Speaker 1: According to the American Heart Association, equals about six teaspoons

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Speaker 1: grams are less a day for women, and nine teaspoons

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Speaker 1: are thirty six grams a day for men. Okay, can

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Speaker 1: you put that into perspective for us? Absolutely? I can

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Speaker 1: came with an example just for such a question. Um,

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Speaker 1: to put that in perspective, Lauren, A single can of

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Speaker 1: Coca Cola has thirty nine grams of sugar, so you've

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Speaker 1: already surpassed the repmmended amount in one drink. Most Americans

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Speaker 1: consume about twenty two teaspoons of added sugar a day,

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Speaker 1: and that on averages sixty pounds per year when specifically

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Speaker 1: in two thousan eight. But that's that's a pretty good

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Speaker 1: average ish number. It's been going down slightly in recent

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Speaker 1: years due to some new regulations and new awareness of

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Speaker 1: this kind of added sugar. But but yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: almost four times him the World Health Association slash American

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Speaker 1: Heart Association recommended amount. And and that's that's in America.

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Speaker 1: And just kind of side note, we will be talking

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Speaker 1: about America through most of this episode because that's where

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Speaker 1: we live. Um, but we should mention that this problem

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Speaker 1: is not confined to America. According to the World Health organization.

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Speaker 1: Few populations around the world fall under the ideal five

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Speaker 1: percent of daily calories being from added sugar, and lots

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Speaker 1: of populations range from the ten to twenty that we

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Speaker 1: are hovering at the top end of. Right, we like

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Speaker 1: to win team we're the best. Actually, I think I

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Speaker 1: think Portugal is narrowly beating us out. Good good job, guys,

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Speaker 1: I would have guessed the United Kingdom. No offense. But

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Speaker 1: it's just just processed foods places where processed foods are

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Speaker 1: pretty common. For a while. If we look at the

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Speaker 1: main health concerns that we had about sugar an excessive

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Speaker 1: sugar in take, mostly what you heard was tooth decake

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Speaker 1: and hyperactivity. Tooth tooth decay still pretty solid. Yes, there's

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Speaker 1: there's some size to back that up, for sure, Brush

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Speaker 1: you teeth kids. But about hyperactivity, yes, I remember reading

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Speaker 1: an article about this a couple of years ago, and

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Speaker 1: it seems like there's been more research on it since then.

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Speaker 1: The hyperactivity aspect, or the so called sugar high sugar

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Speaker 1: buzz uh, it's probably not because of sugar. It's the

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Speaker 1: sugar might enhance something that's already there. But when we

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Speaker 1: think of kids going wild because of sugar at parties,

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Speaker 1: it's probably more the party and the excitement of the

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Speaker 1: atmosphere that's causing the perceived hyperactivity, or or possibly the

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Speaker 1: fact that, like chocolate and sodas are caffeinated. Right, sometimes

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Speaker 1: halfine will totally give you a buzz, But the sugar

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Speaker 1: itself it While it might help in aunts something that

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Speaker 1: already exists, it's probably not for the average kid actually

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Speaker 1: making them hyper, So that a side side. We now

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Speaker 1: know that sugar can lead to more serious health complications,

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Speaker 1: potentially including cancer, but for sure obesity and the plethora

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Speaker 1: of health stuff that can come from obesity, like heart disease,

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Speaker 1: non alcoholic fatty liver disease, and type two diabetes, none

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Speaker 1: of which is good. Sugar is a leading cause of

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Speaker 1: obesity and both children and adults, because, like we said earlier,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't make you feel full, so you're gonna keep

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Speaker 1: eating it. Plus you probably really enjoyed it, so you're

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Speaker 1: gonna keep eating it. Uh. And while you keep eating it,

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Speaker 1: there's a massive release of dopamine in the brain's reward center,

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Speaker 1: way more than most food that we can find in nature,

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Speaker 1: and that means that it can be in quotes a

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Speaker 1: more more on that later. It's it's a complicated issue,

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Speaker 1: and we've got some some actually really interesting science to

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Speaker 1: share with you about it. It's much easier and I

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Speaker 1: can attest to this to lose control and over eat

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Speaker 1: with sugar because you aren't getting fuller and your brain

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Speaker 1: is getting stimulated with that sweet sweet though for me,

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Speaker 1: that's the way to go. Body not doing us any favors.

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Speaker 1: And two thousand paper I've found in the Lancet looking

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Speaker 1: at the relationship of sugar, sweet and drinks and childhood obesity.

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Speaker 1: Of the eight children who drank a daily serving of

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Speaker 1: a sweetened beverage beverage excuse me, the link between increased

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Speaker 1: risk of obesity and sugar was sixty percent. Recent studies

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Speaker 1: indicate that heart disease, the leading cause of death in

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Speaker 1: the US, and long blame nonsaturated fats, may actually be

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Speaker 1: caused by sugar and the havoc at reads, not metabolism.

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Speaker 1: Some other studies show consuming copious amounts of fruit toast,

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Speaker 1: which is part of makeup of sucrose exiode earlier, can

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Speaker 1: spike up the levels of triglycerides, which are fats in

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Speaker 1: the blood. Right blood glucose and insulin, as well as

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Speaker 1: increasing abdominable abdominable abdominable obesity, obdominal obesity and only ten

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Speaker 1: weeks UM and and these are all symptoms of something

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Speaker 1: called metabolic syndrome, which is a set of bodily happenings

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Speaker 1: that are a major risk factor for heart disease and

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Speaker 1: diabetes UM. In a in a normally functioning body, what

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Speaker 1: happens is you eat food and then your body breaks

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Speaker 1: down some of that into glucose. When the glucose enters

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Speaker 1: the blood stream, your body secretes insulin, which carries glucose

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Speaker 1: to cells to make energy happen. But when there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of glucose in the blood for a long time,

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Speaker 1: your cells start ignoring insulin. It's it's like ignoring a

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Speaker 1: delivery driver, like we've got enough, No thanks, were chill here. Um.

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Speaker 1: So your dumb body then goes like, oh, there's still

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Speaker 1: all this glucose in the blood stream, better release some

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Speaker 1: more in lenn delivery drivers, which exacerbates the problem and

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Speaker 1: the cells ignore the insulin even harder. UM. This this

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Speaker 1: is called insulin resistance, and it can lead to a

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Speaker 1: few things that you do not want. It can overload

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Speaker 1: your pancreas, which is your insulin producer, that the cell

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Speaker 1: is responsible for producing insulin get worn down and start

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Speaker 1: dying off, which leads to type two diabetes UM, in

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Speaker 1: which case you need to start taking doses of insulin

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Speaker 1: in order to get glucose into your cells so that you,

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Speaker 1: you know, continue living. That's kind of like Firstly, Secondly,

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Speaker 1: when there's spare glucose in the blood, your cells converted

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Speaker 1: to fat, which leads to to like bad fat accumulations.

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Speaker 1: The that the LDL stuff, which can in turn contribute

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Speaker 1: to heart attack and stroke. Interesting interesting side note UM

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Speaker 1: fascinating morbidity. UH. A study that was recently published in

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Speaker 1: the Journal of Clinical Investigation found a single protein that

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Speaker 1: they think regulates both fat synthesis and insulin signals, and

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Speaker 1: the over activity of that protein they think is what

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Speaker 1: causes insulin resistance in the first place. So so I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's good. It's good to find things out.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they can help that protein out in the future

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Speaker 1: and do stuff with it. UM science marches forward. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: UM other things that are bad. Having too much glucose

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Speaker 1: in your blood is bad news over the long term.

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Speaker 1: It can cause damage to organs like your kidneys or

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Speaker 1: your eyes. It can cause nerve damage and even at

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Speaker 1: a certain point necessitate amputation, because like if you've got

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Speaker 1: nerve damage and poor blood circulation going on at the

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Speaker 1: same time, you know, like like if you're if you're diabetic,

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Speaker 1: you might develop a sore on your foot not notice

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Speaker 1: it due to nerve damage that leads to complications, complications

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Speaker 1: and you wind up needing to amputate bad times. And

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Speaker 1: that is just glucose another factor in the development of

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Speaker 1: insulin resistance. Maybe the consumption of fructose, which you'll remember

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Speaker 1: is half of refined sugar in a little bit more

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Speaker 1: than half of high fructose corn syrup. Unlike glucose, which

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Speaker 1: is broken down by every cell in your body mostly

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Speaker 1: just your liver processes fructose in in lab rats, taking

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Speaker 1: in a whole bunch of fructoes from added sugars prompts

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Speaker 1: the liver to turn the fructose into fat in the liver,

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Speaker 1: that the same way that the rest of the cells

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Speaker 1: in your body would do with with glucose, which in

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Speaker 1: the liver helps lead to insulin resistance. And even if

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Speaker 1: it does not, I mean, we we don't have studies

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Speaker 1: that say that it does that for sharing humans yet.

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Speaker 1: But even if it doesn't, it definitely stresses your liver out,

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Speaker 1: which is bad times. Yeah, your liver's got enough problems,

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Speaker 1: it really does. Um. The link between sugar and cancer

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Speaker 1: is more tenuous, but having obesity, diabetes, or metabolic syndrome

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Speaker 1: are all associated with an increased risk of cancer. Um.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there are a lot of factors at play

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Speaker 1: with developing cancer, but one of them is that insulin

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Speaker 1: us promote tumor growth. Cancer cells get their growth fuel

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Speaker 1: from insulin, just like your body cells do. So the

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Speaker 1: more insulin you've got floating around, the better tumor could grow.

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Speaker 1: And that concludes our bad news section on the health

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Speaker 1: of your body. Uh. Coming up, we've got more bad news. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But but this is this is partially psychological bad news.

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Speaker 1: So so that's nice um and silver lining it you guys,

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Speaker 1: this is this is a fascinating and deeply disturbing episode

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Speaker 1: that I hope you're enjoying. Also, hey, speaking of fabulous transitions,

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Speaker 1: let's uh, let's pause for a moment for a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you sponsor. Now back to that addiction thing we

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Speaker 1: were talking about earlier. Yes, yeah, I remember reading recently

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Speaker 1: ish that headline said sugar and cereals was just as addictive. Ask, okay,

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Speaker 1: what does the science say about sugar and addiction? Well, well,

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Speaker 1: a two thousand seven review of the literature called Evidence

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Speaker 1: for Sugar Addiction, Behavior and Neurochemical effects of intermitted excessive

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Speaker 1: sugar intake. That's quite a title. Guest tested this by

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Speaker 1: looking at studies involving four addictive behaviors and rats binging, craving, withdrawal,

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Speaker 1: and cross sensicitation. That was not correct. Cross sensitization yes,

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Speaker 1: I can't even speak English, I try, uh, And this

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Speaker 1: is becoming sensitized to a simil or substance a K gateway,

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Speaker 1: TRU gateway drugs. And they found that in specific scenarios,

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Speaker 1: mainly binge like scenarios mixed with periods of deprivation, some

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Speaker 1: of the rats became dependent on sugar, and that they

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Speaker 1: were able to demonstrate all four of these addictive behaviors

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Speaker 1: in the rats. The adaptations and neurochemistry resemble that of

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Speaker 1: psychostimulants and opiates, but on a bit much smaller scale.

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Speaker 1: The review did point out that addiction is a term

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Speaker 1: around which there is still allowed debate uh, and that

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Speaker 1: this is often used synonymously with dependence, which they're not

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Speaker 1: necessarily the same thing. It's worth checking out. Something that

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Speaker 1: stood out to me is that in one study they

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Speaker 1: mentioned rats who were given intermittent access to sugar and

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Speaker 1: then they had that access cut off, they consumed nine

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Speaker 1: more alcohol and average, And in the back of my

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Speaker 1: brainers like, so they're giving the rats alcohol and sugar.

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Speaker 1: It's a great weekend for the rats. Probably it probably

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Speaker 1: isn't um that that study in particular was testing that

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Speaker 1: gateway drug factor with sugar and alcohol. UM. The idea

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Speaker 1: of being that if you give an animal one addictive

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Speaker 1: drug for a while and then deny them it, they'll

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Speaker 1: react more strongly to a newly introduced addictive drug, like

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Speaker 1: like a like a dose of sugar or amphetamine, for example,

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't affect a rat that had been given no sugar,

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Speaker 1: would make a sugar deprived rat hyperactive and also make

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Speaker 1: it consume more of of the new drug. UM. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's really interesting and kind of scary that this

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Speaker 1: plays out with sugar as the base drug, even if

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Speaker 1: even if the effect wasn't as strong as would be

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Speaker 1: for something like cocaine. Right review titled eating addiction rather

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Speaker 1: than food addiction better captures addictive like eating Pavier, that's

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Speaker 1: the whole title. Um As the name suggests proposed that

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Speaker 1: the name food addiction and sugar addiction falls under that umbrella.

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Speaker 1: Was misleading because the data we're working off of is

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Speaker 1: so new and more accurately refers to addictive eating behavior

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Speaker 1: um As Opposed to the last review paper we were

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Speaker 1: talking about, which only covered animal studies, this one covered

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Speaker 1: both animal and human studies, so ups for it. Right,

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Speaker 1: And part of the argument here is that the brain

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Speaker 1: is complicated, y'all, and the reward system gets triggered whenever

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Speaker 1: you eat anything thanks to the drive to survive and

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Speaker 1: all that sugar was singled out in the study as

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Speaker 1: something that comes with a set of pleasing environmental factors

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Speaker 1: those birthday parties we talked about, and that the pleasurable

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Speaker 1: association with sweets in your brain can lead you to

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Speaker 1: seek out these empty calories even when you're not hungry.

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Speaker 1: The more you eat a food, the less dopamine response

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Speaker 1: you get to it, unless you're going to have to

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Speaker 1: up your intake to get that same feeling, which sounds

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Speaker 1: a lot like building a tolerance. Me high fat and

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Speaker 1: high sugar foods are like a party in our brains.

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Speaker 1: You're right, the reward center is going wild, shooting off fireworks.

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Speaker 1: And these used to be difficult to find, if not

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Speaker 1: pretty much non existent in nature, but now they're everywhere

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Speaker 1: that like pretty much the whole center of the grocery

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Speaker 1: store essentially, and so they're easy for us to get

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Speaker 1: our hands on, and they're super rewarding, which does lead

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Speaker 1: us to seek them out more, or at least to

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Speaker 1: want to seek them out more, and does increase our tolerance.

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Speaker 1: But that isn't quite addiction. One of the main problems

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Speaker 1: this review had with previous studies is that the use

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Speaker 1: of a single food provided to the rats is a

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Speaker 1: bit of a stretch to extrapolate to human eating habits

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Speaker 1: and choices, which frequently those those studies are dealing with.

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Speaker 1: So eat these brownies rats. Yeah. Also, since I enjoyed

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Speaker 1: from this study quote, compared to cocaine, rats are less

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Speaker 1: motivated to work for a chocolate drink. Deep Insight Science

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Speaker 1: inter rats um. The review um talks um about the

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Speaker 1: potentially addictive properties of other foods than sweet foods, but

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Speaker 1: it does specifically point out that more research is needed

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Speaker 1: to determine whether the withdrawal behaviors seen in studies with

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Speaker 1: rats and sugar could indicate behavioral addiction rather than substance addiction. Right. Um,

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Speaker 1: And it points out that studies with rats and sugar

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Speaker 1: in which some rats were kept bored and others were

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Speaker 1: given enriched environments, the entertained rats didn't hit the sugar

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Speaker 1: is hard, which suggests that it's a It's a more

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Speaker 1: psychological addiction than a physical addiction, since another behavior can

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Speaker 1: provide similar similar stimulation to eating. Right. I think we've

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Speaker 1: all heard that before that um, a lot of eat

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Speaker 1: when they're bored. Totally. I do that all the time.

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Speaker 1: I try to do it less than I want to. Right.

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Speaker 1: It's always in the back of my mind. I could

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Speaker 1: be eating, Do I need to be? Should I be?

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Speaker 1: Probably not. We've also I'll probably heard that people, Um,

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Speaker 1: you can get addicted to the behavior around a thing,

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Speaker 1: like I hear this from people who smoke that almost

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Speaker 1: just the act of like the lighter, like after coffee

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Speaker 1: or after a meal or even coffee. I'm like a

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Speaker 1: complete almost like addicted to the ritual around it just

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Speaker 1: as much. So there's definitely something there, I think. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's there's no huge consensus on the addictive properties of sugar,

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Speaker 1: is what we're saying. But but it's it's probably both

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Speaker 1: physical and psychological at least a little, right, Yeah, kind of.

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Speaker 1: It's not cocaine. You're you're cereal is not Your cereal

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Speaker 1: is not cocaine. Don't don't worry, So don't dont don't

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Speaker 1: worry unless you're unless you're putting cocaine in your cereal, which, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why you're doing that. Yeah, Well, when

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Speaker 1: you're when you're looking into to all of the science

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Speaker 1: behind sugar and behavior and addiction and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: there's a name that you will probably run into a

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Speaker 1: whole lot, right, That of Dr Robert Listick, who works

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Speaker 1: in San Francisco's University of California's Pediatrics department. He and

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Speaker 1: his colleagues have written books and papers claiming that sugar

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Speaker 1: is not just bad for you, but toxic. Yeah. He

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Speaker 1: also has a YouTube video of a lecture he gave

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Speaker 1: that's over an hour long and has millions of views,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty impressive. He conducted a study on forty

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Speaker 1: three African, American and Latino youth from ages eight to eighteen,

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Speaker 1: and he gathered information about their dietary habits and designed

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Speaker 1: individual nine day menus for each to match the average

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Speaker 1: amount of calories they consumed on a daily basis. And

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Speaker 1: then he switched the sugars in their diets for starch

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Speaker 1: without sugar eat equal calories. Though yes, equal calories, the

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Speaker 1: calories remained the same, they just got rid of the sugars. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And over the nine days, the participants weighed themselves and

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Speaker 1: if they were losing weight, they were instructed to eat

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Speaker 1: more of the provided food to maintain weight. Okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: The study found that when sugar was reduced to less

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Speaker 1: than ten percent of daily caloric intake, fasting blood sugar

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Speaker 1: fell by the fat and the liver decreased, production of

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Speaker 1: insulin decreased, tried and glycerized declined. So the point of

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Speaker 1: this study, um, and what it seems to suggest is

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Speaker 1: that the high number of calories alone in sugar and

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Speaker 1: all the health implications that come with that don't account

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Speaker 1: for the impact sugar has on our bodies, and that

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Speaker 1: sugar itself and not obesity, which is the main point

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Speaker 1: is the cause of some of these health problems, and

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Speaker 1: and they really did sifi sugar that the diets included

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Speaker 1: like and he said, lots of starches and also processed

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Speaker 1: foods like um. Examples that listed gave where things like

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Speaker 1: um exchanging turkey hot dogs in for a kid's usual

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Speaker 1: chicken tarayaki, or or a bagel instead of a pastry.

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Speaker 1: And he argues that because these diets were far from

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Speaker 1: ideal and the participants measures still got better in such

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Speaker 1: a short time, that we really should be concentrating on

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Speaker 1: the sugar factor here. Some experts argue that since this

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Speaker 1: study relied on self reporting, there's always a little bit

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Speaker 1: of doubt. Sure, there's some wiggle room in there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's also a relatively low number of participants in the

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Speaker 1: cut Horns true that the results aren't necessarily reliable and

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Speaker 1: that it detracts from the overall health concerns surrounding over

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Speaker 1: consumption and obesity, but Lusted contends that we can't dismiss

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Speaker 1: that sugar, which is relatively new to our bodies evolutionarily speaking,

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Speaker 1: is more harmful than previously thought. Yeah, well, is that

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Speaker 1: all the bad as we have? Lauren Um, It's certainly

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Speaker 1: not one one question. Um that that kind of begs

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Speaker 1: itself when we're discussing all of this, is is how

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00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: I mean? Like like if this was new to you,

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Speaker 1: dear listener, as it was new to me, Like I

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Speaker 1: mean like I knew that like sugar is bad. But

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Speaker 1: but I but I didn't know these types of facts

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Speaker 1: about it. Uh, you know, look like why hasn't medicine

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Speaker 1: figured out before now that sugar is bad? Like like,

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Speaker 1: why is it taking studies being conducted in in this

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Speaker 1: are fresh new twenty one century to figure this stuff out.

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Speaker 1: Part of the reason for that is coming up after

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Speaker 1: one more ad break. So so why why do we

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Speaker 1: eat so much sugar? Why is it in the foods

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Speaker 1: on American shelves? Why? I don't mean, why haven't we

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Speaker 1: figured out more about it before? Now? Do I smell

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Speaker 1: a conspiracy? It's it is a conspiracy. Oh, no, food conspiracy.

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00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: Here's here is where it gets crazy. Um Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: with all these scary health implications, you might be thinking

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Speaker 1: about purging your pantry and promising yourself to be more

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Speaker 1: mindful about your sugar and take. But that is probably

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Speaker 1: easier said than done, especially and given how many different

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Speaker 1: names there are for a lot of sugar on nutrition labels.

428
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: Speaking of, if you look at a nutrition label, you'll

429
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: notice that sugar is different from everything else on there,

430
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: and that it doesn't have a percent daily value number

431
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: next to it. What's up with that? The sugar industry

432
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: don't do? Aren't you shocked? No, we could, We could

433
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: probably do like several episodes in a row about about

434
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: all of the ins and outs of this of this drama.

435
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: But we'll give you like kind of sort of the

436
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: cliff notes version, right. Okay, So in nineteen twenties America,

437
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: you didn't see her here that much about heart disease,

438
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: which is a key player in all of this. Yes,

439
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: But over the next few decades it became more and

440
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: more common, culminating in when President Dwight Eisenhower had a

441
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: heart attack and in a public statement, the president's physician

442
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: said the key to avoiding heart disease was one quit

443
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: smoking and two cut back on fats and cholesterols. SATs

444
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: and cholesterols. Yes. To back up this advice, the physician

445
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: pointed to the research of nutritionists and Zel Keys, who

446
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: was a pioneer of this nutrition advice. Most of us

447
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: are familiar with now of avoiding fats like butter, red meat,

448
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: and eggs because it'll clog up your arteries. Uh. And

449
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: Eisenhower took those advice to aren't too soon uh and

450
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: stopped eating saturated fat completely until he died of heart

451
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: disease in nineteen six. Apparently it didn't really work. American

452
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: doctors listened, and the danger fat posed shaped our views

453
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: on health and diet, despite the fact that it didn't

454
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: apparently work out in this one very famous case. Right, Okay.

455
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: Nutritionists in the UK, we're not as convinced. They were,

456
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: led by the author of the nineteen seventy two book

457
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: Pure White and Deadly, John you Can Okay. Through various

458
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: studies and observations about how the liver process sugar before

459
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: it entered the bloodstream, you Can grew more and more

460
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: convinced that instead of fat, sugar was to blame for

461
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: heart disease. Another reason he thought this was was because

462
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: fat had always been a part of our diet, whereas

463
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: sugar was new to the scene. Back in the US,

464
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: and o'key is called you Can a hack and his

465
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: research propaganda on off of big meat and dairy. Aside

466
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: from professionally disagreeing with each other. The two apparently like

467
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: really didn't like each other. Yeah, and I also hear um,

468
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: I don't hear I read that you can was kind

469
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: of shy and didn't really like to speak publicly, whereas

470
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: Antel Keys was very charismatic. Yeah, so he was just

471
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: better at getting the public on his side. There's a

472
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: similar story in um in uh what's the word that's

473
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: not anthropology paleontology that word, yes, with with the with

474
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: the brontosaurus, which I guess we can't really talk about

475
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,719
Speaker 1: on this show because they're not food aside from the flintstones.

476
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: But it's a pretty good there's a pretty good brain

477
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: Stuff episode about it if you if you want to

478
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: go check out that video. I do very interested anyway, Yes,

479
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: Brontosaurus aside. The British Sugar Bureau also attack you Can,

480
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: and the World Sugar Research Organization called his book si

481
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: acience fiction goodness, which is pretty harsh. Meanwhile, Keys rose

482
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: up the nutrition and health ranks in the US, from

483
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: the American Heart Association to the National Institutes of Health,

484
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: and to back up his claim that fat was the

485
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 1: real culprit, he kept citing a study he and some

486
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: of his colleagues conducted on the diets, lifestyles, and health

487
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: of over twelve thousand middle aged men from seven countries

488
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: that showed a correlation between fat intake and heart disease.

489
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: But as you might, yeah, this wasn't the most scrupulous study,

490
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: the primary problem being that the seven countries were chosen

491
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: by Keys as once he knew would support his hypothesis.

492
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: And on top of that, there was no control group,

493
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: no way to pinpoint saturated fat as the cause when

494
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 1: it could be one of the hundred plus things that

495
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: make up the diets and lifestyles of folks. And in fact,

496
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: the studies lead researcher went back to the data several

497
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: years later and conclud who did, that sugar was more

498
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: closely correlated with heart disease than fat. There was no

499
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: follow up study, of course, to corroborate keys blame fat

500
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: battle cry, but nevertheless, the damage was done. Doctors told

501
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: patients that fat and cholesterol were bad, and it didn't

502
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: help that fat also means fat as an oboues. Yeah. Yeah, words, man,

503
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: they matter. Doctors surveyed and still believe this, by the way,

504
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this this was all made even worse um

505
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: by the sugar industry itself, right, because you better believe

506
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: they did not waste any time to capitalize on and

507
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: encourage the vilification of fat sugar refineries started what eventually

508
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: would become the Sugar Association in response to World War Two,

509
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: rationing pamphlets telling Americans they don't even know gosh darn sugar,

510
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: which which at the time was a good political message

511
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: like save that sugar for soldiers overseas, but the Sugar

512
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: Association was not gonna have it. By seven, the Sugar

513
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: Association had its own pr division called Sugar Information, Inc.

514
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: And one of their first ad campaigns hailed sugar as

515
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: a weight loss products. These were These were some serious campaigns.

516
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: Association started out with an annual budget of what would

517
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: be three point four million in today's dollars, and that

518
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: was funded by sugar brands like Dixie and Domino and etcetera. Um.

519
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: They were they were paying doctors and nutritionists and food

520
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: and drink companies to help propagate their message. And we

521
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: have we have evidence of this where I mean not

522
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: us personally, but but but the world at large. We

523
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: didn't do investigative journalism here, were merely reporting memos from

524
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: the Sugar Association dating back to nineteen sixty to demonstrate

525
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: the Sugar Association's top brass We're aware of a possible

526
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: correlation between sugar and heart disease. But to them this

527
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: was small potatoes because many Americans had made the switch

528
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: to diet drinks sweetened with not sugar, big problem for

529
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: the a k A. Artificial sweeten nurse right and their

530
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: share of the soft drink market. The artificial sweeteners share

531
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: of the soft drink market jumped up from four percent

532
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: in nineteen three to in nineteen which is pretty solid growth. Yeah, totally,

533
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: so is a response. Ye. Also in nineteen s the

534
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: Sugar Associations started the International Sugar Research Foundation or i

535
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: s r F to combat what they called false claims

536
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: about the detrimental effects of eating sugar. And they poured

537
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: money into this as well, examinating, examinating, examinating, examining every

538
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,919
Speaker 1: possible health downside of using artificial sweeteners. One of them

539
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: s like lowmates, cyclamates. I'm gonna say cyclamates, cyclamates. I'm

540
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's not like LaMonte. Uh. They were

541
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: banned in the US and nine nine when a study

542
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: found a correlation linking them to bladder cancer, something that

543
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 1: later was dismissed. The m I s r F vice

544
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 1: president and research director at the time, John Hickson, would

545
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,479
Speaker 1: later work for the Cigar Research Council. Good, good, dude,

546
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: all around. The Cigar Research Council is an organization that

547
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: says it's smoking is basically fine. M Yeah, so he

548
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: cut his teeth. Sugar moved up. Okay. The I s

549
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 1: r F would eventually get sacharin banned to another artificial sweetener.

550
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 1: So you've got to admit, we're pretty effective their jobs.

551
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: They were moving and shaken. Yeah. Um. Confronted with mounting

552
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: evidence that sucros was a factor in athers clerosis, that's it,

553
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: thank you. The Sugar Association wanted to shift the focus

554
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: of America's health concerns to absolutely anything else, and that

555
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: something else was saturated fats. So in nine edition of

556
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: the New England Journal of Medicine, there was this review

557
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: paper out of Harvard's Department of Nutrition. It was led

558
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: by Frederick Stair and funded in part by companies like

559
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: Kelloggs and Coca Cola, and in part by the aforementioned

560
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: I s r F. So you know it was on

561
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: the up and up. It pointed the finger at fat

562
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: for being a direct cause of coronary heart disease. The

563
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: publication did not disclose the sugar industries funding of the study,

564
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: you know, nor that the International Sugar Research Foundations that

565
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: objectives for cantributed content to and received drafts of the paper.

566
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: And and this was huge, Okay that the New England

567
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: Journal of Medicine was and is a premier journal and

568
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: review papers which compiled data from a lot of different

569
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: scientific studies. Review papers are really widely cited. So by

570
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: using such a paper to suggest that prior studies linking

571
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: sugar to negative health effects were problematic, no matter how

572
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: good they actually were, and and then simultaneously holding up

573
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: studies about fats negative effects, no matter how bad those

574
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: studies were, they were able to shape the discourse with

575
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: this one paper about both sugar and fat for decades

576
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: to come. Um, there's there's a really amazing paper about

577
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: the history of all of this in the November issue

578
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: of the Journal of the American Medical Association, which is

579
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 1: worth the read if you have access to it. And

580
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: Frederick Stare, that's not the last you're going to hear

581
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: of him, but he would go on to testify about

582
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: sugars positives to Congress and compile a document funded by

583
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 1: the industry of scientific evidence, loosely using that word. They're

584
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: um exonerating sugar titled Sugar in the Diet of Man,

585
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: and the press release accompanying this document read Scientists to

586
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: spell sugar fears uh. Nine seventies, ads from the sugar

587
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: industry said things like, quote, if sugar is so fattening,

588
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: how comes so many kids are thin? And and here's

589
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: my favorite. This was from a women's magazine, Um, I

590
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: believe it, Ran and Marie Claire quote, sugar can be

591
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: the willpower you need to under eat, which is almost

592
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: the opposite of what we're here now. It's it's also

593
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: just awful, like like, don't discourage, don't don't encourage women

594
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: to under eat. That's goodness, my okay. But they were

595
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: but they were being vastly rewarded within their own industries

596
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: for this kind of behavior. In nineteen seventy six, in fact,

597
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: one of the highest awards in the realm of public relations,

598
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: the Silver vill was presented to executives from the Sugar

599
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: Association for quote forging the public opinion get it at

600
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: anvils forging. I'm just like doing the research, horrified that

601
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: puns went right over my head. Coincidentally, that same year

602
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: Stairs Frederick Stairs conflicts of interests were exposed. It didn't

603
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: matter though. An f d A committee with two members

604
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: that had ties to the sugar industry used Stairs sugar

605
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: in the Diet of Man paper to label sugar as

606
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: generally recognized as safe, which is an actual thing. That's

607
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: a category I think grass, which is funny because that's

608
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 1: fat and French. Anyway, they conceded that maybe it wasn't

609
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: great for the teeth, but other than that it was

610
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: a okay. There were detractors, mainly the U s d

611
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: A's Carbohydrate Nutrition Laboratory, who advocated that sugar consumption should

612
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: come down by sixty percent, that it didn't, and that

613
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: it did excuse me cause diabetes, obesity and heart disease.

614
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: But they were ignored. And all of these shenanigans, like

615
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 1: weren't even the first time that the sugar industry had

616
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: gotten up to some serious shenanigans. Nope, sugar refiners campaigned

617
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 1: for scientific standards to differentiate between raw and refined sugar

618
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: and pushed successfully for purer quotes raw sugar to be

619
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: more heavily taxed. Um, there are a lot of taxes

620
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: and tariffs around sugar. I did not know this. Yeah, yeah,

621
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: And it leads to the fluctuating politics of It leads

622
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: to fluctuating prices and sugar, which is a another fascinating

623
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: little bit of history for a whole other episode, right,

624
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: which we have researched, and you will get to hear

625
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes yes, yes, first the scary stuff, then the

626
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: other terrible scary stuff. I think we should This should

627
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: be a horror podcast. Food horror, food horror. Man. We

628
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: could do it too, yeah, we could. So. Basically, by

629
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: getting these tariffs on raw sugar, it was a way

630
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: to make sure that they rained over the sugar market

631
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: in the United States. But the EU has done this too,

632
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: and also Japan. I believe, um they One of the

633
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: ways that they went about this refined sugar was by

634
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 1: running ads that showed insects living inside raw sugar and

635
00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: claiming that raw sugar caused quote Grocer's Itch rosters that

636
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: slaves in China and India were producing sugar tainted with

637
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: dirt and animals. Uh. And they did all this to

638
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: convince the American public that raw sugar was just not

639
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,959
Speaker 1: for them. Stick to that with fine stuff. I feel

640
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: like that that the marketing these days for raw sugar

641
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 1: is like, oh, it's more natural than this dirty, chemically

642
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: influenced refined sugar. The pendulum is definitely swinging in the

643
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: other direction. Okay. The i s RF your National Sugar

644
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: Research Foundation, they did look at the health implications of sugar,

645
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: but they were encouraged to keep any findings under apps.

646
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: I The way I read this was they wanted to

647
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: be aware so that if it somehow became public knowledge,

648
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: they would like know how to fight it. They would

649
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: know how to fight it. And also I'm sure that

650
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: they thought, maybe if there's a way we in combat

651
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: this problem without anyone ever figuring out it was a problem. Two,

652
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 1: So they did want to know. The sugar industry did

653
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: want to know these problems. They don't want everyone to. Uh.

654
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: Knowledge is good. I'm glad that they like knowledge for themselves.

655
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: And after the bad press from people like you Can,

656
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: the I s r F proposed research programs to delve

657
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: into the effects sugar hat on health, and the Sugar

658
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: Association responded, of course, by pulling support from the I

659
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: s r F and all their research projects. Dang Naturally,

660
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: they directed that money to seventeen studies conducted from nine

661
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: eight designed to absolve sugar under the guise of properly

662
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: conducted science, so they're kind of like pseudo studies. A

663
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: panel of sugar friendly scientist and a committee of quote

664
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: contributing research members. This committee was staffed by representatives from

665
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: companies like Coca Cola or Hershees, and they approved all

666
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: the research proposals, with the most money awards going to

667
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: studies that didn't just absolve sugar but painted it in

668
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: a positive light. So of course the scientists are going

669
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: to try, did you get the more money by painting

670
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: sugar in an even more positive light? Give us give

671
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: us an example of one of these shining examples of humanity. Okay,

672
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: absolutely um. They recruited a diabetes expert, Edwin Bierman, a

673
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: fellow who actually believed that diabetics did not need to

674
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: worry about sugar so long as they were healthy, and

675
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 1: convinced the American Diabetes Association to loosen the restrictions on

676
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 1: carbs and sugars, but to raise them unsaturated fats. Since

677
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: I just kind of like slammed this dude, I don't,

678
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. Edwin Bierman p simally, Um, it's possible

679
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: that he was just deeply misgiven. Yeah, it's and earnestly

680
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: thought that this was great advice and that he was

681
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: doing the best thing for human people. I don't, it doesn't.

682
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. Y'all. People make mistakes, That's all I'm saying.

683
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: They do. Anyway, So Edward Berman, we'll give you the

684
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 1: benefit of the town. We will, yes, because we're nice

685
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: that way. Um. Research on the potential negative impact of

686
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: sugar halted almost completely by nineteen eighty, which interestingly happens

687
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: to be the same year that the US issued the

688
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: first dietary guidelines. In the UK followed suit pretty soon

689
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: after three you're probably familiar, but the main takeaway of

690
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 1: these guidelines was less saturated fat and cholesterol, and people

691
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: responded by switching out fats with carbs, sugar being one

692
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 1: of those cars that that that base of that food pyramid.

693
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: That's just like eat all of the carbs and sugar.

694
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: It's fine, right, so fine for you, fine like sugar.

695
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: So so what happened, well, Obesity rates skyrocketed from fift

696
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: of Americans in nineteen to thirty five percent in two thousands,

697
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: and in the UK the increase was even more significant

698
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: six percent in the mid eighties to two thirds the

699
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: population today. So obviously these guidelines did not accomplish what

700
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: they were set out to do. Uh. And the lack

701
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: of evidence that fat was behind all of this was

702
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: starting to make some scientists pulled their collars a little

703
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: a little uneasy. Uh. And since low fat diets had

704
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: never been studied on women, which is an interesting side

705
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: of the medical industry. Um, there's a lot of studies

706
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: that just don't involve women, including some studies on birth control.

707
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting? That's very interesting. Yeah. So in n three,

708
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 1: the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute and the Women's

709
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: Health Initiatives sought to correct the with the largest controlled

710
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: diet trial ever commissioned at the time, while simultaneously erasing

711
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: any lingering doubts about the villainy effect. But the study

712
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: did not bear it out. Women on the low fat

713
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 1: diets were at no lower risk of heart disease than

714
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: the control group. Uh. But the study was dismissed as flawed. Right.

715
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 1: This wasn't even the end of of this type of

716
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:27,879
Speaker 1: misleading research study and and like science human buy out

717
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: by by the industry. A lot lots of studies are

718
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: still funded in part by the sugar industry. Um One

719
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: review by the Way found that studies funded by the

720
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 1: sugar and or beverage industry are five times more likely

721
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: to report no connection between sugary drinks and weight gain

722
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 1: than the non industry funded studies are. So funding matters.

723
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: For for example, in Coca Cola funded the creation of

724
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: the Global Energy Balanced Network, which is a nonprofit for

725
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: scientists who advocate uh that that we should pay more

726
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: attention to total work balance and exercise then to the

727
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: source of your calories, or or even to cutting calories.

728
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: Um it's vice president, Dr Stephen Blair has received more

729
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: than three point five million dollars from Coca Cola for

730
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: research projects just since two and that's just the biggest number.

731
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 1: It's it's other higher reps have also received large monetary

732
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: gifts or donations more than half a million dollars each.

733
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: That money earmarked for for funding and and creating the

734
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 1: This this Global Energy Balance Network look y'all like it's

735
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: it's it's certainly true. It's certainly true. That getting funding

736
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: for research and special projects, especially if you're a member

737
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 1: of a public university, can be really difficult. UM money

738
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: can get scarce, so so gifts from corporations can really help.

739
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: But but just holy call y'all, it is a conflict

740
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: of interest. Speaking of studies, segue Uh two thousand eight

741
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: Oxford study found the opposite of accepted health guidelines UM.

742
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: The country with the highest intake of ceteraed fats, which

743
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: is France, had the lowest rates of heart disease, and

744
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 1: Ukraine had the highest rates of heart disease and the

745
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: lowest consumption of saturiate fats. Huh. An analysis on cholesterol

746
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: data from one countries found that lower cholesterol levels correlated

747
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: with higher rates of heart disease. It was like, Yeah,

748
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: that's the opposite of what I've heard my whole life.

749
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: That same year, the u n's Food and Agriculture Organization

750
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: their own analysis found no probable or convincing evidence quotes

751
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: that heart disease are cancer could be traced to high

752
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: fat diets. I I kind of I kind of want

753
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: to kind of want to mention that that there there

754
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: are obviously a lot of factors that go into abs

755
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: rates Uh, it's not like a one to one correlation

756
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: of like of like, absolutely, increased sugar intake is the

757
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: only thing that has led to OBESITI rates are also

758
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: absolutely when um when when between computers and television, people's

759
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,720
Speaker 1: started living at a much more sedentary lifestyle in developed countries,

760
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: which I'm sure has something to do with it. It

761
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like the sugar hilt, but the way that

762
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: sugar is reported on nutrition labels in the United States

763
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: at least is going to be changing over the next

764
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: couple of years. The ice cream that I was eating

765
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: while I was researching this episode, Uh, I had so

766
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: many cravings it was really terrible. Um. Uh. The ice

767
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: cream I was eating already had a new line on

768
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: its label, added sugars. In May of the FDA announced

769
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: that packaged foods are going to need to have an

770
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 1: added sugars line on their nutrition labels. UM expressed in

771
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 1: grams and a percentage of daily value you know, according

772
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:50,240
Speaker 1: to that like typical two thousand calorie day diet UM

773
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: and proponents are hoping that it'll spur consumers too to

774
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: make better informed choices about the foods they're eating, and

775
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: hopefully eventually by by products see to spur food companies

776
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 1: to add less sugar to their products. That Good Old

777
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: Sugar Association called it a quote dangerous president that is

778
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: not grounded in science. Yeah, but everything else on the

779
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: new Judician label, lets have it, I don't you know.

780
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: The the new labels will also up the font size,

781
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: on serving size and on calories per serving. So that's so,

782
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: that's pretty sweet. Nice. Oh that was a pun. Oh no,

783
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: you would realize you were making it. No, I didn't know. Oh,

784
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: that's fine, that's okay. Puns are just in my brain. Now.

785
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: I spent way too way, way too long podcasting with

786
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. All the love to Jonathan Strickland. Um. And

787
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: also there's other there is other, like hypothetically good news

788
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: out there, is there? Well, I mean there's been some

789
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: really good like social and political pushback over the past

790
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: few years. All of those as in various cities and

791
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: counties that are trying to cut down on the sizes

792
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: of of sugary beverages that can be served or two

793
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: in schools. Yeah yeah, whether or not kids can buy

794
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: sports drinks or sodas or candy bars. Yeah. I think

795
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: the label thing is a pretty big step, because before

796
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: I really started hearing about this, I didn't know I

797
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: would look on a label and be like, I'm not

798
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: sure if I have a lot of sugar? Yeah, how

799
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 1: much sugar? Is a lot of sugar? There's no there's

800
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: no percentage, and a lot of things. To me, you

801
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: just wouldn't expect to have that much. Sure, you know

802
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: there's sugar in there, but like, but how much? Like

803
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like, like, what about this frappuccino? It

804
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: must it's delicious, so I should probably how much sugar? What? Yeah?

805
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: Those coffee drinks, yeah, notorious. And the weird thing is

806
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: a lot of them don't even taste that sweet to me,

807
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: which I don't know if that just means I've got

808
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: that tolerance thing going on, yeah, or I don't know

809
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: me neither. It's a confusing and terrifying world out there.

810
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. No, no, um, I mean I would.

811
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: I would always rather know about these things and know

812
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: what we can do to to try to fight it,

813
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: then to remain ignorant, um and and hungry. If you

814
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: just heard my stomach growl, that's why I said the

815
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 1: hungry part um. I I do hope that those natriction

816
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 1: labels will do that thing of trying to encourage companies

817
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: to add less sugar to their products because tastes can change,

818
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: like like absolutely, and like all of us do not

819
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: need all of that sugar in ketchup or in mac

820
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,919
Speaker 1: and cheese or whatever it is. And you know, trying

821
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: to switch away from from those foods too, to whole

822
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 1: fruits and vegetables and lean cuts of meat is probably

823
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: better for us in the long run. But we're still

824
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: going to eat ketchup and mac and cheese. Yeah, maybe

825
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: not together. I judge you if you do that. I

826
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 1: can't say I've never done that. If we're taking like

827
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 1: the horror podcast look alternative future, what if we replace

828
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: adage sugar with something even worse. I think we just

829
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: need to be aware as consumers. Yeah, as society. Don't

830
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: totally stress yourselves out about it. But but but yeah,

831
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: just just pay attention, like like if you have if

832
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: you're not in a total rush at the grocery store,

833
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 1: do read your nutrition labels and just be aware of

834
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: what's going on. My general rules, if I can't recognize

835
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: some of the ingredients, maybe not maybe not for me.

836
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: I don't I'm a little bit las a fair about

837
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But but I mean especially for treats

838
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: like I think, I think it's completely valid to treat

839
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 1: yourself and just be like, man, I really want this

840
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: donut and eat the doughnut. We'll see a donut doesn't

841
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 1: come with a nutrition label. Therefore, I can like lie

842
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: in the back of my head, I'm sure this is

843
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: less than It's amazing what you could convince yourself when

844
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: you really want to eat it, don't it. So that's

845
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: sugar and health. Like we said, we will have um

846
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: an episode like the History and Science of making sugar. Yeah,

847
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: um that that will be coming your way, if not

848
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: immediately after this episode, certainly soon right hopefully immediately after

849
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: the future. Anything could happen in it future, but in

850
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: the meanwhile, if you're looking for a shorter version of this,

851
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,879
Speaker 1: there's an amazing brain stuff video about ship Yes It's fantastic, Yes,

852
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: by Mr Paul Dnchant, and it is on brain Stuff.

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00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: You can google it. Google brain Stuff the YouTube. And

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00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: if there's any other topic ideas that you have for us,

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00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 1: anything else that you'd like us to ruin for you forever,

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00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: send us an email food Stuff at how stuff works

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00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: dot com. We're also on Instagram at food stuff and

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00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a Twitter account. It's not up right now.

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00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. If you google food stuff Twitter and

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00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: things will happen. Yeah. Basically, just good on Google. Our recommendation,

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00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: read your food labels, and google stuff thanks to our

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00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 1: audio producer uh Noel Brown and his fabulous hats. Thanks

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00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: to those as well. They always bring me joy and

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Speaker 1: we hope that many other good things are coming your

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Speaker 1: way