1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kettas live weekdays at noon 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: and five pm Eastern on Apple Cocklay and Android Auto 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: No longer in Washington, at least for the remainder of 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: the afternoon is President Trump, who departed Washington earlier today 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: and has actually just touched down VM Marine one after 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: Air Force one landed in Texas earlier in Kerrville, Texas, 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: where he will be surveying some of the damage in 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: areas affected by last week's devastating flooding. And of course 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: we'll be meeting with state and local officials participating in 13 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: a roundtable this afternoon. In the aftermath of this tragedy, 14 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 2: with more than one hundred and seventy people still unaccounted for, 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: we want to get the latest. In turn to our 16 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: Texas Bureau chief, Bloomberg's Julie Fine is joining us from Dallas. 17 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: So Julie, just walk us through, if you could, what 18 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: we expect to see from President Trump's visit this afternoon. 19 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 3: Well, you already saw him with the governor, with the senators, 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 3: clearly trying to show unity in this situation. Now he'll 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 3: sit down with a round table. He's going to get 22 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 3: a briefing, and he's really going to learn firsthand. I mean, 23 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 3: he's gotten the briefings at the White House, he's gotten 24 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 3: the briefings from FEMA, he's gotten all these briefings. But 25 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 3: he's going to really sit down and get a real 26 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 3: look into what's happening in Texas and what's going to 27 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 3: happen for a long time forward. This cleanup should take 28 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 3: a very very long time. A disaster declaration was declared 29 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: for several surrounding counties today as well. He's going to 30 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 3: really see the work ahead. Then he will go and 31 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 3: actually tour the damage site, which you know the media's 32 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 3: been through now you've seen it from the air as well. 33 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 3: It's devastating. You will see cabins, you will see really 34 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 3: debris that a human being is very hard to fathom. 35 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 3: That's what's ahead today. 36 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 4: You wonder exactly how that's going to affect the President 37 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 4: and the First Lady for that matter, when they see it. Julie. 38 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 4: There has been a call for floodal arms to be 39 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 4: put in this area. It's not the first time we've 40 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 4: heard this, but Governor Abbott, who I know you're in 41 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 4: contact with, is calling for this to be adopted during 42 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 4: a special legislative session. President Trump telling NBC News he 43 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 4: supports that. Will it happen. 44 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 3: I think it will happen in this session. I mean, 45 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 3: I think there will be a little back and forth 46 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: with the details involved with it and the actual funding 47 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 3: of it. But when you have the governor and the 48 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 3: Lieutenant governor on record saying we are going to get 49 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 3: this done, you have lawmakers in in just about a 50 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: week now, it will be very difficult for them not 51 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 3: to take some very serious action in the aftermath of this. 52 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 2: Well, and when we consider the aftermath of this and 53 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: how it's going to inform policy decisions, not just in 54 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: Texas but federally going forward, Julie, as we have questions 55 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: around what the administration's intention is when it comes to FEMA. 56 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: Is there a sense in Texas that the aftermath of 57 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: this could be properly managed by the state alone, or 58 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 2: is it necessary that FEMA is on the ground there 59 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: right now. 60 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 3: Well, I'm certain that they want FEMA here right now. 61 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 3: I mean, I suppose I saw a local official the 62 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 3: other day saying simply, anybody that wants to be here, 63 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 3: that can volunteer and help, we want you here. So 64 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 3: certainly FEMA being here is going to help in the aftermath. 65 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 3: You have to look at Joe and Kayley. How much 66 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 3: money and support is going to be needed for such 67 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 3: a long period of time. I mean, the Hill Country 68 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: is an extremely popular destination for people in the summer, 69 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 3: but there are also people that live there. There's also 70 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 3: an economy. It's fifty five thousand people, so obviously not 71 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: a huge city, but there's an economy there that is 72 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: going to need to be rebuilt essentially outside of the city. 73 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 3: So FEMA definitely will be needed. I imagine the governor 74 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: will be reaching out as well. Now Texas does have 75 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 3: a very large response. Sadly, this is a state that's 76 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 3: had to really manage quite a few of these type 77 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 3: of tornado type rain situations because of the weather here 78 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: and the topography. 79 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 4: Julie, thank you so much for the great reporting our 80 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 4: Texas Bureau chief, Julie Fine. 81 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: The you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. 82 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern 83 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: on Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 84 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 85 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 86 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 4: Heard about the tomato tariffs scaley, Yeah, there comes seventeen 87 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 4: percent Mexican tomatoes starting Monday, So start stockpiling the salsa. 88 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 4: I guess Congresswoman Gwen Moore is watching all of this 89 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 4: from her perch in Wisconsin's fourth district. Democratic congresswoman is 90 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 4: with us right now live on Bloomberg TV and radio. 91 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 4: It's great to see you, Representative more welcome back. Are 92 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 4: you stockpiling tomatoes ahead of next week? How do we 93 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 4: deal with these tariffs? 94 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 5: Well, I tell you I do have a tomato plant 95 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 5: outside my back door, just in case. 96 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 4: You're doing it right apparently. How concerned are you about 97 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 4: the impact this could have on Wisconsin? Of course, a 98 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 4: major agriculture state, a major dairy state, as we enter 99 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 4: a whole new level of trade war it seems with Canada. 100 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 5: Well, of course I'm very concerned. Years ago I asked 101 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 5: my youngest granddaughter where food came from, and she said, 102 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 5: pick and save. 103 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 4: So I got worried. 104 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 5: Then you know, the whole supply chain is going to 105 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,239 Speaker 5: be disrupted, everything from farmers planning their foods to actually 106 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 5: people who will need and rely on SNAP and so 107 00:05:54,839 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 5: this will affect grosers, people who have jobs bagging grocers, groceries, inflation, 108 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 5: the cost of groceries, and our farmers. And the only 109 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 5: way that this president seems to be able to address 110 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 5: these things is to try to provide a subsidy for 111 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 5: agriculture workers or to declare that he is not going 112 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 5: to deport Mexican migrants who might be working as agricultural workers. 113 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 5: This is a real big stretch in terms of saving 114 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 5: our economy and lowering costs. 115 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: Well, Congressoman, I would mention in our audience on Bloomberg 116 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: TV as well as on YouTube can see this. 117 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 5: Now. 118 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 2: President Trump has just landed in Texas alongside First Lady 119 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: Milania Trump. They of course are now heading into the 120 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 2: helicopter and they'll begin viewing some of the damaged areas 121 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: in and around Kerrville, Texas from last weekend's devastating floods. 122 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: When we consider a congressom in the future of FEMA, 123 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 2: knowing President Trump has up until recently called for essentially 124 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 2: it's dismantling and sending that responsibility back to the States. 125 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: Do you believe that that policy pursuit is one that 126 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 2: he will still actively pursue or could this disaster actually 127 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 2: spell a second chance for FEMA as it currently stands. 128 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 5: Well, I guess I wish I could predict what President 129 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 5: Trump what was gonna do, because I would not have 130 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 5: predicted that FEMA would have been destroyed. When we have 131 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 5: seen a time and again, whether you believe in climate 132 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 5: change or not, the environmental the environment be shifty, calls, tornadoes, 133 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 5: all kinds of five hundred year weather conditions, and surprise, surprise, 134 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 5: this storm was yet another aggression on the part of 135 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 5: Mother Nature and a warning not to dismantle emergency services. 136 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 5: I heard President Trump say, I wouldn't have even blamed 137 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 5: Joe Biden for this, that you know, But I'm telling 138 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 5: you that there's nothing like preparedness and nothing like being 139 00:07:55,360 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 5: able to reach people on several different platforms to warn 140 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 5: them to escape. And so I think that it's fine 141 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 5: for him to be there with his wife. That's where 142 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,679 Speaker 5: any president should be, and maybe better late than never. 143 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 5: But I think that the agony and misery of this 144 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 5: community is going to continue long after the cameras are gone, 145 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 5: long after Air Force one leaves. 146 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 4: Well, it is pretty heartbreaking to consider one hundred and 147 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 4: seventy people still missing. Congresswomen in Texas is one of 148 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 4: many states that has seen an influx in ICE raids. 149 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 4: Of course, Texas is a border state and is no 150 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 4: stranger to immigration security here, but I want to ask 151 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 4: you about some of the raids that we have been seeing, 152 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 4: in many cases by unmarked and masked individuals who are 153 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 4: purportedly with ICE or sometimes it's hard to tell. Border Patrol. 154 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 4: Department of Homeland Security, you just signed a letter urging 155 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 4: ICE to not deport undocumented victims of crime. Did you 156 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 4: hear a response from the federal government from the administration 157 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 4: on this? Is there anything your office can do to 158 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 4: help them? 159 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 5: No, the response is hopefully forthcoming. There's nothing more frightening 160 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 5: to me to think of someone throwing a bag over 161 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 5: my head and dragging me away. This is so Unamerican 162 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 5: to not announce which law enforcement agent you are demonstrating 163 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 5: your badge number, and that you have the authority to 164 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 5: take people into custody. This is very chilling, and I 165 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 5: think it's being done deliberately to replicate the tactics of 166 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 5: authoritarian regimes. This is totally unacceptable and it defies people's 167 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 5: You know, I'm not an attorney, but I would think 168 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 5: that if you need a warrant, you would at least 169 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 5: need to disclose who you are as a law enforcement person. 170 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 5: This is totally unacceptable. 171 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 2: Congressman, when we consider ICE will be getting more funding 172 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: along with Customs and border patrol due to the one big, 173 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 2: beautiful bill that just passed in all the various components 174 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: in it, With the passage of that bill, with the 175 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 2: potential passage of now a recisions package that could very 176 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: well happen in the Senate, do Democrats have any incentive 177 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 2: to deal with Republicans for a government funding deal. 178 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 5: Well, we always have an incentive to do our job 179 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 5: if we're allowed to do our job. You know, the 180 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 5: thing about the package now is that it's the largest 181 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 5: border bill that we have seen in history, and I 182 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 5: don't know that it's always directed at the right equipment. 183 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 5: Democrats have long been for more electronic surveillance, more human 184 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 5: beings that actually evaluate and separate the sheep from the goat, 185 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 5: as it were, at the border. We have always aired 186 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 5: on the side of more border security, you know, but 187 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 5: the building the optics of you know, putting people, uh 188 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 5: you know, surrounding them by alligators. 189 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 6: Uh. 190 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 5: This is this is uh costly. It costs so much 191 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 5: money uh to uh you know, the optics Uh Alcatraz, 192 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 5: for example, it costs more money than it's worth in 193 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 5: terms of being of incarcerating people. I think that the 194 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 5: overkill is not only bad for people's personal rights, but 195 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 5: for our budget. 196 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: All right, Congresswoman, we appreciate your time. As always. Democratic 197 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 2: Congresswoman Gwen Moore representing Wisconsin's fourth district here with us 198 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 2: on Balance of Power. 199 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 200 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm e's durn On, 201 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: Alma Coarcley and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business Up. 202 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 203 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 204 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 2: We also wanted to vote us on a subject area 205 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 2: the President actually spoke about with reporters before departing Washington 206 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: for Texas. He was talking about immigration. Joe and a 207 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: direct quote from the President in his remarks this morning, 208 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: we're getting the criminals out, and we're getting them out fast. Now, 209 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 2: as we know a lot of the people who have 210 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,479 Speaker 2: been arrested as part of these efforts in the administration 211 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 2: to arrest and deport people do not necessarily have criminal records, 212 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 2: and also their means at getting to these people have 213 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: frequently been to raid work. 214 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 4: Please, that's true, and this has been a byproduct of 215 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 4: Stephen Miller's urging of ICE and Immigration officials to increase 216 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 4: the number of detentions per week, per month that are 217 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 4: still running below what we saw in the Biden and 218 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 4: Obama administrations. It was a big raid yesterday Kaylee, California, 219 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 4: in which tear gas was sprayed at protesters. They were 220 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 4: going after a cannabis growth facility. I guess in southern California. 221 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 4: Footage taken that we've taken a look at show them 222 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 4: executing criminal search warrants. They say they got ten juveniles, 223 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 4: eight of them unaccompanied, found at one of the facilities, 224 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 4: rated that all of them were in the country illegally. 225 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 4: When we talk about these raids, we discussed this earlier 226 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 4: on the Hour with Congresswoman ghen More. In many cases, 227 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 4: these agents are masked and are wearing plain clothes, making 228 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 4: it very confusing for the people who are there. You 229 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 4: see a call on social media citizens come protect the 230 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 4: immigrants who are being targeted, and things get pretty ugly 231 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 4: pretty quick. And it's part of the conversation that we 232 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 4: wanted to have with Wendy Edelberg, who is a senior 233 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 4: fellow in Economic Studies at the Brookings Institution, former chief 234 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 4: Economists incidentally at the CBO, the Congressional Budget Office. We 235 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 4: could talk about a couple of things here with Wendy. Welcome, 236 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 4: It's good to see you as we consider the impact 237 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 4: that this policy is having on our workforce in our economy. 238 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 4: When you hear stories like this, the chill could go 239 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 4: much further than the people who were at that site. 240 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 4: What does that mean for workers? 241 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 7: Absolutely? I mean, so let me first say, I'm coming 242 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 7: at this as an economist. That's my lane. So I'll 243 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 7: talk about the economic effects, but I think those are 244 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 7: dwarfed by just the visceral effect. As an American looking 245 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 7: at these images, I think that effect is far more 246 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 7: important and far bigger than I think what's going to 247 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 7: sound like pretty modest economic effects that I'm about to discuss. 248 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 7: So with some colleagues we put out a report not 249 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 7: so long ago, where we think that it's more than 250 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 7: likely that as a result of this immigration policy, we 251 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 7: will have negative net migration, which is to say, more 252 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 7: people leaving the country than entering the country this year 253 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 7: for the first time in many decades. And that's going 254 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 7: to mean a smaller economy, and that's going to mean 255 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 7: a labor market with numbers that are going to be 256 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 7: not so recognizable, really startling labor market numbers as we 257 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 7: go forward. 258 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: Well, and we've seen that in the past several jobs reports. 259 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 2: When we're thinking of the share of the foreign born workforce, 260 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 2: that number is going down, and it's going down substantially, 261 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: raising the question of who replace those workers, Wendy, who does? 262 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: You can't, who's willing to? 263 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 7: So let's first step back a bit and talk about 264 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 7: what's probably happening in the labor market right now. So 265 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 7: I appreciate that the published statistics are showing things about 266 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 7: you know, sharef form born and the like those statistics, 267 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 7: While you know, I don't mean to impugne them at all, 268 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 7: these are large changes that are happening right now, and 269 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 7: those statistics are probably not fully catching up with what's happening. 270 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 4: My guess. 271 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 7: My analysis suggests that the surge and immigration over the 272 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 7: past few years is actually still pushing up labor supply. 273 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 7: And the reason I say that is because there's a 274 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 7: big swath of immigrants that are that are new to 275 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 7: this country that are eligible to apply for work permits, 276 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 7: and we have seen a surge in those work permit applications, 277 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 7: and while approval rates are down, like for example, between 278 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 7: April and May, this administration approved almost seven hundred thousand 279 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 7: work permits for recent immigrants. And so I think one 280 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 7: of the reasons that we've seen such strong employment numbers 281 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 7: over the past few months, on average one hundred and 282 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 7: fifty thousand, I think that that is because labor supply 283 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 7: is still being pushed up by the recent surgeon immigration. 284 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 7: But we can't ride that wave forever, and we're probably 285 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 7: just about at the moment that that increase in labor 286 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 7: supply comes to an end and we start seeing payroll 287 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 7: employment numbers that are closer to like thirty thousand a month, 288 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 7: really ten thousand a month. In a year or so, 289 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 7: we could start seeing payroll employment numbers that are negative, 290 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 7: and that will be like a healthy, sustainable full employment 291 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 7: labor market, just with declining labor supply and so declining employment. 292 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 4: So what does that mean for participation and the unemployment rate. 293 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 7: So there's gonna be some near term gyration the year 294 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 7: from now. 295 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 4: Though, to your point, if we're in a negative growth 296 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 4: on payrolls, what's the rest of the job market look like? 297 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 7: So I think the rest of the this is going 298 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 7: to be the cognitive dissonance. The thing that's going to 299 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 7: be really hard about understanding the labor market that this 300 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 7: policy has created. Uh, it could well be that we 301 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 7: have a healthy labor market, an unemployment rate that is 302 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 7: that starts with a four. 303 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 4: Labor starts with a force. 304 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 7: Starts with a four. It could be a nice healthy 305 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 7: labor market, but just have a we have a shrinking 306 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 7: labor supply, and that just means shrinking employment. There are 307 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 7: other economies. 308 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 4: Or wages through the roof in that world for a time. 309 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 7: I again I think for the for a time, I 310 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 7: think that there will be near term grations. We're going 311 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 7: to see stronger wage growth in some occupations, stronger wage 312 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 7: growth in the agricultural sector, stronger wage growth for home 313 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 7: health workers. But I think other parts of the economy, 314 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 7: and particularly some cities, some areas are actually going to 315 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 7: see big reductions in consumer demand. We're already seeing this 316 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 7: in some areas where we're seeing big raids on immigrant communities, 317 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 7: and businesses there are complaining that they're seeing much less demand. 318 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 4: For their products. 319 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 7: Those businesses are going to lower their prices, they're going 320 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 7: to layoff workers, and you're going to have deflationary effects. 321 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 2: I want to focus on the labor supply issue you're 322 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 2: referring to, because we know there are people on the 323 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: sidelines in this That's why we don't have a full 324 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 2: labor market participation. The AG Secretary Brook Rawlin suggested in 325 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 2: an interview this week that if you take the agricultural sector, 326 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 2: for example, and the workforce that may be lost by migrants, 327 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 2: that there are people who could replace those workers, people 328 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: who need to work in order to be eligible for medicaid. 329 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 2: Do you expect that that actually is a dynamic that 330 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: will take place, that that kind of changes to how 331 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 2: you're able to access medicaid could bring people off the sideline. 332 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 7: So it's the theory of the case. I mean, I'll 333 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 7: say there's a lot of economic analysis that suggests that 334 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 7: if you make people poor enough and desperate enough, they 335 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 7: will work. So I get it. If we decimate the 336 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 7: safety net, we will increase labor supply. I don't know 337 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 7: that it will happen nearly enough to replace the you know, 338 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 7: hundreds of thousands of immigrants that we're talking about no 339 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 7: longer being in this country or not coming. And I'll 340 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 7: also say one of the reasons why I'm skeptical that 341 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 7: this will be a huge effect is that the labor 342 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 7: market has been quite strong for some time, and it 343 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 7: has been a pretty good time to get a job. 344 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 7: And we've seen stronger labor force participation among some groups, 345 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 7: but not those groups have actually largely been women who 346 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 7: have increased their labor force participation rates. There's some excellent 347 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 7: work coming out of the Hamilton Project at Brookings showing 348 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 7: that labor force participation among women has been particularly strong. 349 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 7: Even this strong labor market has not been enough to 350 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 7: get these prime age men office sidelines. So I'm not 351 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 7: sure that incrementally stronger wage growth is going to have 352 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 7: some cataclysmic effect. But yes, if you make people desperate enough, 353 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 7: they will. 354 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 2: Work, all right, Wendy, really great to have you appreciate 355 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 2: the conversation. Wendy Edelberic, Senior Fellow and Economic studies at 356 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: the Brookings Institution and former chief economist at the Congressional 357 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 2: Budget Office here with us in Washington. Much appreciate the time. 358 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast ketchas 359 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's durn on 360 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 361 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 362 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, it'slayed Bloomberg eleven thirty. 363 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 4: Are you going to see the new Superman movie this weekend? Everybody? 364 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 4: It's all excited about Superman? Right? The dog Crypto the 365 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 4: latest take on this iconic brand. Yeah, DC Comics, but 366 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 4: a different wrinkle now. James Gunn, the Marvel guy, is 367 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 4: making it. It's supposed to be a more up to date, inspiring, 368 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 4: optimistic take on the old tale. Guys like me who 369 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 4: grew up with Christopher Reeves are supposed to love this stuff. 370 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 4: As you can see on YouTube. The White House, well, 371 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 4: I guess, has its own version of Superman. Donald Trump 372 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 4: in the full outfit, as you can see taking off 373 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,919 Speaker 4: into the heavens. I'm going to sort of walk you 374 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 4: back here a little bit because James Gun's been doing 375 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 4: a lot of press. As I read and what is 376 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 4: the best story on the terminal today by the great 377 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 4: Jason Bailey, The headline Superman immigrant backlash is comically misguided. 378 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 4: James Gunn said a couple of things in some of 379 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 4: the media interviews he's been doing. Superman, he said, is 380 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 4: the story of America, he told the London Times quote 381 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 4: an immigrant that came from other places and populated the country, 382 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 4: populated the country. This has created this big woke backlash 383 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 4: against the Superman movie because well, nothing is simple anymore. 384 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 4: Big expos on Fox News. It's set social media on 385 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 4: fire from the far right rage machine, in Jason's words, 386 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 4: hence the post on social media today from the White House, 387 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 4: we see that again President Trump as Superman. Look at 388 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 4: him taken off. He doesn't like dogs though, so I 389 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 4: guess there's no crypto. Of course, Donald Trump has a 390 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 4: history of this. He's been dressing up as a lot 391 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 4: of different things in social media. I remember when he 392 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 4: showed up as Rocky just a couple of years ago 393 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 4: while I was twenty nineteen. Looks pretty good with the belt, 394 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 4: they have to admit. But as Jason Bailey Wright to 395 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 4: the idea that Superman is a previously a political character 396 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 4: who has been co opted by the political left for 397 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 4: cultural indoctrination is comically ignorant. You know the guys who 398 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 4: started this, Jerry Siegel Joe Schuster, both children of Jewish immigrants, 399 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 4: and before we even entered World War Two, they had 400 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 4: a two page story of Look magazine called how Superman 401 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 4: would End the War, in which he literally takes Adolf 402 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 4: Hitler by the throat. There was later a radio show, 403 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 4: Adventures of Superman. The sixteen episode are called Clan of 404 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 4: the Fiery Cross, in which Superman took on the KKK. 405 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 4: So Jason makes the point that there's not a lot 406 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 4: new here, and I'm really glad that he's with us 407 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 4: Bloomberg Opinion guest columnist. He's a film critic and historian 408 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 4: and author of the book Gandalfeini Jim Tony in the 409 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 4: Life of a Legend. Jason, I can tell I like 410 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 4: you already, and I appreciate your coming to talk to 411 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 4: me here on Bloomberg. Are you surprised to see the 412 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 4: wulk backlash? This is speaking not really Superman, but the 413 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 4: political climate we're in here, right right? 414 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 8: I mean, you kind of put your finger on it earlier. 415 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 8: You know, nothing is simple anymore, nothing is what it appears, 416 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 8: what it's intentions may or may not be. Everything is 417 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 8: up for sort of a deep read that's usually comprised 418 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 8: of a kind of bad faith. And you know, I 419 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 8: knew earlier this year I actually wrote a different Bloomberg 420 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 8: editorial about this that when snow White, the Snow White 421 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 8: remake tanked and suddenly people were eagerly ascribing it to, 422 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 8: you know, to making it an Israel and Palestine issue, 423 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 8: I was like, Oh, we've really sort of crossed the 424 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 8: rubicon here. So I'm unsurprised. I'm especially not surprised. You know, 425 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 8: these debates run rampant throughout popular culture, but especially in 426 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 8: the sort of superhero movie world, which speaks first, you know, 427 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 8: to their cultural ubiquity. Like these really are typically the 428 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 8: biggest blockbusters, the movies that everyone sees and thus has 429 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 8: an opinion on, But they are also typically loaded for 430 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 8: these kinds of readings for a lot of the reasons 431 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 8: that we're seeing with the Superman controversy. 432 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 4: So you're a you're a film critic, you understand the 433 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 4: business of Hollywood, and you don't see them in your 434 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 4: column to feel that this is going to hurt box 435 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 4: office receipts for this movie. So are people just talking 436 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 4: out of their hats and then going to see the movie? 437 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 4: How does that come together? 438 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 8: I mean, I think it's very easy to sort of 439 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 8: overestimate the effect that some a small number number of 440 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 8: extremely loud voices can have. And the way that I 441 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 8: put it in the column was that, you know, these takes, 442 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 8: the likes of which we're seeing on you know, Fox 443 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 8: News and Daily Wire in places like that, they generate clicks, 444 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 8: they rate the enthusiasm of that audience that goes to 445 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 8: those outlets, but those probably aren't the audience for these 446 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 8: things anyway. 447 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 5: You know. 448 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 8: The best sort of example that I've found was recalling 449 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 8: the hullabaloo from a lot of the same people over 450 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 8: Barbie a couple of years back, and the sort of 451 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 8: the what we're in that case much more explicitly stated 452 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 8: themes of feminism and diversity and that sort of thing, 453 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,479 Speaker 8: and you know, people like Ben Shapiro are saying, nobody's 454 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 8: gonna go see this movie and then it literally breaks 455 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 8: box office records, you know, and then someone posted today 456 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 8: someone found a clip of him the like the weekend 457 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 8: after Barbie came out saying, well, you're gonna see a 458 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 8: second weekend drop off on this like no one's ever seen, 459 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 8: and like there was no second weekend drop off. 460 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 4: It's just, you know, it's. 461 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 8: It's somewhat performative. I'm sure that in their heart of hearts, 462 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 8: these people are genuinely angry that every single work of 463 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 8: popular art doesn't speak specifically to them. But a lot 464 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 8: of it is generating traffic, generating rage clicks, generating advertiser dollars. 465 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 4: Ugh, it's exhausting, rage clicks. Exhaust got a life. These 466 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 4: are the same people who are going to go see 467 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 4: the movie. That's the best part. Jason really appreciate. Jason 468 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 4: Bailey is a film critic whose work has appeared as 469 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 4: well in The New York Times, Vulture, Playlist, Slate, and 470 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 4: The Rolling Stone. How did we find you at Bloomberg? 471 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 4: This is great, Jason, come back and see us again. 472 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 4: Look for him on the terminal and online. As we 473 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 4: assemble our political panel, Little did Genie Shanzano and Rick 474 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 4: Davis snow they'd be diving into this right now. Bloomberg 475 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 4: Politics contributors Genie senior Democracy fellow with the Center for 476 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 4: the Study of the Presidency in Congress. Rick is Republican 477 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 4: strategist partner at Stone Court Capital. And we'll get to 478 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 4: the tariffs and the other policy coming up in our 479 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 4: second hour, guys, But how about Superman in Crypto here, Genie, 480 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 4: what do you make of the woke outrage over this movie? 481 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 6: Do you read you one tweet or x that I 482 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 6: saw Joe, because it encapsulates it. Somebody said that Superman 483 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 6: wasn't an illegal immigrant, he was an unaccompanied refugee minor 484 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 6: because he was immediately adopted even though he was born 485 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 6: in Cryptonian. So the people are really going to town 486 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 6: on this the level of detail. You know, we're seeing 487 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 6: a lot of maga backlash. And it's not just against 488 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 6: this movie. From a policy perspective, we're seeing it against 489 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 6: the poort, Agriculture Secretary Brook Rollins and the President for 490 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 6: considering even amnesty for migrant workers. And so it's you know, 491 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 6: they take the promises the President made very seriously, and 492 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 6: they are pushing back at any attempt either by him 493 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 6: or apparently filmmakers to tell a different story or pursue 494 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 6: a different policy. And I would say though that the 495 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 6: Superman filmmakers are very much in keeping with public opinion polls, 496 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 6: which show that people in the United States at least 497 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 6: are largely supportive of immigration, and this pushback that we're 498 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 6: seeing is very much in the minority. 499 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 4: Rick Davis, I'm guessing you were a Christopher Reeves Superman guy, 500 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 4: are we Is this ridiculous or does this actually tell 501 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 4: us something that we can't put a Superman movie on 502 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 4: the screen in this country without having a debate over immigration. Yeah. 503 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 9: First of all, I'm a big fan of superheroes. I 504 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 9: think they teach moral lessons. I love the fact that 505 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 9: Hollywood invests in these things, you know, and and and 506 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 9: and and let let the chips fall on all these 507 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 9: social media accounts for people who don't have enough time 508 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 9: to do anything but comment or what is the term 509 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 9: raids clicks love it. I'm going to use that all 510 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 9: day to day. 511 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 4: Get over it. 512 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 9: I do think what's really interesting to me is how 513 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 9: Trump such an enormously good job of appropriating these things. 514 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 9: I mean, how many how many bitcoins are going to 515 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 9: get or meme coins are going to get now minted 516 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 9: with his image as Superman on them that, you know, 517 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 9: get put out there in the public market. I mean, 518 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 9: like it's it's amazing how flexible this administration has been, 519 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 9: either as a campaign or in government, to jump on 520 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 9: these things in a moment's notice and put the president's 521 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 9: image to work on them, to appropriate whatever positive and 522 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 9: and frankly pushback on whatever negative that they can get. 523 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 9: I mean, it is an administration light on their feet. 524 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 4: GINI, did you see Donald Trump in the Superman outfit 525 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 4: taken off? Is that working for you? What's the message 526 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 4: from the White House? I just want to be serious 527 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 4: for one minute. That's the official White House account put 528 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 4: that photograph up. What are we supposed to take from that? 529 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 6: It is the same White House that also put up 530 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 6: a picture of him as the Pope. So I don't 531 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 6: think anything surprises us anymore. They are staying relevant, they 532 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 6: are staying on message. They want to consistently talk about 533 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 6: Donald Trump as Superman or as the ruler of the world, 534 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 6: and they want to use these moments to change the narrative, 535 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 6: and so they are trying to do that. It's, you know, 536 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 6: not my cup of tea. I wish we didn't have that, 537 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 6: but we are in what, I don't know what you 538 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 6: call it political tainment or something era. And so this 539 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 6: is what leaders and presidents around the world are doing, 540 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 6: and Donald Trump is the leader of this movement, which 541 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 6: I wish we could pull back from a little bit, 542 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 6: but I'm in the minority. 543 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 4: I guess, Rick. You see all the crazy AI stuff. 544 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 4: Donald Trump looks like a bodybuilder, He's shooting guns, He's 545 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 4: doing all kinds of crazy things, and sometimes he is 546 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 4: dressed like a superhero. What does it tell you though, 547 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 4: when it's coming from the official White House account. This 548 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 4: isn't fan art we're talking about here. It came from 549 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 4: the actual admistration. Yeah. 550 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 9: No, I think it's the blurring of you know, sort 551 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 9: of government and. 552 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 4: The web. 553 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 9: I mean, he has so many creators out there creating 554 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 9: these kinds of content, whether they're in government or outside 555 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 9: of government, whether they're Trump supporters or just people out 556 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 9: there having a good time, and yet he doesn't blink 557 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 9: when it comes to taking an image that he thinks 558 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 9: is flattering to him and adopting it as his own. 559 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 9: And he's done it throughout his career, right, I Mean, 560 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 9: he's the one guy we know actually dumb it up 561 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 9: a Time magazine cover and put it up in his Office. 562 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 9: I mean like he believes that an image is worth 563 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 9: a thousand, maybe ten thousand words, and he has always 564 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 9: done an exceptional job of appropriation in that regard. 565 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 4: Well, I never thought we'd be having this abstract conversation 566 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 4: with Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano, but that is how 567 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 4: good they are. They're going to be back in our 568 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 4: second hour here, of course, our signature panel on Balance 569 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 4: of Power. As we consider the words of jor L 570 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 4: to his young son Superman Live as one of them, 571 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 4: he said, collel, to discover where your strength and your 572 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 4: power are needed, but always hold in your heart the 573 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 4: pride of your special heritage. You can just imagine the 574 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 4: antenna's going up. They can be a great people, he said, collel, 575 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 4: if they wish to be. Thanks for listening to the 576 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 4: Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you 577 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 4: haven't already an Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, 578 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,719 Speaker 4: and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, 579 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 4: DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.