WEBVTT - Could the Electoral College Become Obsolete?

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Brainstuff production of iHeart Radio. Hey Brainstuff Lauren

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<v Speaker 1>bog Obam here. Earlier this month, Oregon became the fifteenth

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<v Speaker 1>state plus Washington, d C. To join what's known as

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<v Speaker 1>the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Under this agreement, participating

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<v Speaker 1>states pledged to deliver all of their Electoral College votes

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<v Speaker 1>to the winner of the national Popular Vote. If enough

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<v Speaker 1>states join, it could spell the end of the Electoral College,

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<v Speaker 1>a temporary body of state appointed electors who are ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>responsible for choosing the president of the United States. The

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<v Speaker 1>Electoral College was created by the Founding fathers as a

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<v Speaker 1>way of checking the raw power of the people and

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<v Speaker 1>giving a leg up to small states, but it also

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<v Speaker 1>makes it possible for the winner of the popular vote

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<v Speaker 1>to actually lose the presidential election. That very thing has

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<v Speaker 1>happened five times in American history, most recently with the

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<v Speaker 1>election of Donald Trump, who won the electoral vote by

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<v Speaker 1>a broad margin and six to thirty two, but lost

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<v Speaker 1>the popular vote to Hillary Clinton by more than two

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<v Speaker 1>point eight million ballots. In the year two thousand, the

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<v Speaker 1>closest presidential election in US history, George W. Bush narrowly

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<v Speaker 1>won the White House with two hundred and seventy one

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<v Speaker 1>electoral votes while receiving five hundred and forty three thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>eight hundred and ninety five fewer popular votes than his opponent,

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<v Speaker 1>Al Gore. The electoral college is generally unpopular. A May

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<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen poll found fifty three percent of Americans think

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<v Speaker 1>it should be abolished, and according to a twenty nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>report by the Congressional Research Service, there have been seven

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<v Speaker 1>hundred different proposals floated in Congress that would reform or

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<v Speaker 1>repeal the electoral College, which is enshrined in Article two

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<v Speaker 1>of the Constitution and also in the twelfth Amendment. But

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<v Speaker 1>despite centuries of opposition, the electoral College is alive in

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<v Speaker 1>kicking because amending the Constitution or repealing and existing amendment

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<v Speaker 1>is a huge political undertaking that requires supermajorities in Congress

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<v Speaker 1>plus the president's signature. That's why electoral college critics are

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<v Speaker 1>excited about a new approach that uses the Constitution's own

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<v Speaker 1>language to bring power back to the popular vote, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's getting traction. The National Popular Vote Plan doesn't require

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<v Speaker 1>a constitutional amendment because it doesn't get rid of the

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<v Speaker 1>electoral College. Supporters believe it brings parity back to the

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<v Speaker 1>voting process, every vote would count, while opponents claim that

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<v Speaker 1>any state sponsored attempt to mess with federal elections is

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<v Speaker 1>by its very nature unconstitutional. We spoke with John Coza,

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<v Speaker 1>the chair of National Popular Vote Incorporated, a nonprofit organization

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<v Speaker 1>that's been lobbying states to join the movement since two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and six. Cosa's biggest gripe with the electoral College

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<v Speaker 1>has nothing to do with what the Constitution says, but

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<v Speaker 1>with state winner take all laws. These laws, which are

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<v Speaker 1>on the books in forty eight states plus Washington, d c.

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<v Speaker 1>Hand over all of the state's electoral votes to the

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<v Speaker 1>candidate who gets the most votes at the state level.

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<v Speaker 1>Cosa said, if you lose Florida by half a percent,

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<v Speaker 1>you get nothing, and that's exactly what happened to Gore

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand plus. If you live in a state

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<v Speaker 1>that constantly gives all of its electoral votes to the

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<v Speaker 1>political party you're opposed to, you start to feel like

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<v Speaker 1>your vote doesn't even count. A troubling side effect of

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<v Speaker 1>the winner take all system is that presidential candidates have

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<v Speaker 1>learned to campaign exclusively in so called battleground states, where

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<v Speaker 1>both presidential candidates stand a good chance of winning. It

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<v Speaker 1>makes perfect mathematical and financial sense. Don't waste time and

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<v Speaker 1>states that are guaranteed to go blue or red, but

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<v Speaker 1>go all in on the purple ones. As a result,

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<v Speaker 1>says Cosa, in the twelve election, a hundred percent of

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<v Speaker 1>campaign events and spending were focused on just twelve states.

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<v Speaker 1>Incent of events in spending occurred in those same twelve states,

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<v Speaker 1>and that can affect how and where government policy is made.

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<v Speaker 1>For example, manufacturers in a battleground state like Ohio get

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<v Speaker 1>a lot more attention from White House policymakers than farmers

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<v Speaker 1>in a solid red state like Idaho. This hasn't always

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<v Speaker 1>been the case. A. Cosa said that in nine seen

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<v Speaker 1>sixty John F. Kennedy campaigned in thirty five states and

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<v Speaker 1>his opponent, Richard Nixon, visited all fifty. Okay, but let's

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<v Speaker 1>go back to the foundation of all of this. What

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<v Speaker 1>it says in the Constitution about the electoral vote, the

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<v Speaker 1>National Popular Vote movement Hinges on a clause contained an

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<v Speaker 1>article to Section one. Each state hill appoint in such

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<v Speaker 1>a manner as legislature thereof may direct a number of

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<v Speaker 1>electors equal to the whole number of Senators and representatives

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<v Speaker 1>to which the state may be entitled in Congress. According

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<v Speaker 1>to National Popular Vote supporters, the Constitution requires the use

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<v Speaker 1>of electors to choose the president, but it gives states

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<v Speaker 1>the right to pick those electors in such a manner

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<v Speaker 1>as they see fit. And that's exactly what fifteen states

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<v Speaker 1>and Washington d C. Have done. They've chosen to pledge

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<v Speaker 1>all of their electors to the winner of the national

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<v Speaker 1>popular vote instead of their state level popular vote. Cosa explained,

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<v Speaker 1>the Constitution sets up the electoral college, but doesn't say

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<v Speaker 1>how these electors get to the electoral College. It leaves

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<v Speaker 1>it totally up to the states instant only. This is

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<v Speaker 1>how forty eight states plus DC ended up with a

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<v Speaker 1>winner take all system in the first place. The winner

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<v Speaker 1>take all idea isn't anywhere in the Constitution, explains Kosa.

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<v Speaker 1>States past legislation one by one as majority politicians tried

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<v Speaker 1>to consolidate power in the decades preceding the Civil War.

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<v Speaker 1>Only Nebraska and Maine divvy up their electoral votes by

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<v Speaker 1>congressional districts. Critics of the National Popular Vote movement argue

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<v Speaker 1>that even if the interstate compact isn't expressly unconstitutional, it's

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<v Speaker 1>at least anti constitutional. They point to the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>the Founding Fathers created the Electoral College as a deliberate

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<v Speaker 1>move away from direct democracy. By giving ultimate power over

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<v Speaker 1>selecting the president to a representative body chosen by the states,

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<v Speaker 1>it avoided the threat of unchecked majorityarianism. In the words

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<v Speaker 1>of the Congressional Research Service report, the National Popular Vote

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<v Speaker 1>plan and opponents say would undermine the intent of the

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<v Speaker 1>Founding Fathers by bringing back majority rule. Other criticisms of

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<v Speaker 1>the National Popular Vote proposal are that it would incur

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<v Speaker 1>endless state recounts because so much will be writing on

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<v Speaker 1>every single vote nationwide, not just in battleground states. Also

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<v Speaker 1>that it would disadvantage smaller states over larger ones, and

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<v Speaker 1>further that it would encourage multiparty elections in which a

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<v Speaker 1>candidate could win the presidency with a plurality of votes

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<v Speaker 1>but not a majority. In the extensive Answering Myths section

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<v Speaker 1>of the National Popular Vote website, the organization addresses these

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<v Speaker 1>criticisms and many more, generally arguing that the National Popular

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<v Speaker 1>Vote scheme won't be any worse than what we have

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<v Speaker 1>now and has the potential to function far better. For example,

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<v Speaker 1>state recounts are already a pain, and fifteen American presidents

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<v Speaker 1>have already won the White House without an absolute majority

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<v Speaker 1>that's more than of the popular vote. Further, most of

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<v Speaker 1>these smaller states are currently ignored during campaign season because

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<v Speaker 1>they aren't battlegrounds. If you've paid attention on US election night,

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<v Speaker 1>you know that two d and seven is the magic

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<v Speaker 1>number of electoral College votes needed to win the presidency.

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<v Speaker 1>It's also the same number of electoral College votes required

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<v Speaker 1>to make National Popular Vote a reality. The only way

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<v Speaker 1>for the Cooperative Interstates scheme to work is if all

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<v Speaker 1>of their pooled electoral votes add up to a majority.

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<v Speaker 1>As of this recording, National Popular Vote legislation has passed

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<v Speaker 1>in states with a total of a hundred and ninety

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<v Speaker 1>six electoral votes, which is seventy four shy of the goal.

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<v Speaker 1>Maine could be the next to add its four humble

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<v Speaker 1>electoral votes, but it will take some bigger states to

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<v Speaker 1>sign on, many of which voted for Trump, who once

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<v Speaker 1>again stands to benefit from the electoral College in the election.

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<v Speaker 1>While the vast majority of states who have signed on

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<v Speaker 1>to the National Popular Vote have been Democratic strongholds, Colorado

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<v Speaker 1>became the first purple state to join in May, could

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<v Speaker 1>more follow we'll keep you updated. Today's episode was written

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<v Speaker 1>by Dave Brus and produced by Tyler Clang. Brain Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>is a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. For

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<v Speaker 1>more in this and lots of other political topics, visit

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<v Speaker 1>our home planet, how stuff Works dot com. And for

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<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

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