Speaker 1: Welcome to Brainstuff production of iHeart Radio. Hey Brainstuff Lauren
Speaker 1: bog Obam here. Earlier this month, Oregon became the fifteenth
Speaker 1: state plus Washington, d C. To join what's known as
Speaker 1: the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Under this agreement, participating
Speaker 1: states pledged to deliver all of their Electoral College votes
Speaker 1: to the winner of the national Popular Vote. If enough
Speaker 1: states join, it could spell the end of the Electoral College,
Speaker 1: a temporary body of state appointed electors who are ultimately
Speaker 1: responsible for choosing the president of the United States. The
Speaker 1: Electoral College was created by the Founding fathers as a
Speaker 1: way of checking the raw power of the people and
Speaker 1: giving a leg up to small states, but it also
Speaker 1: makes it possible for the winner of the popular vote
Speaker 1: to actually lose the presidential election. That very thing has
Speaker 1: happened five times in American history, most recently with the
Speaker 1: election of Donald Trump, who won the electoral vote by
Speaker 1: a broad margin and six to thirty two, but lost
Speaker 1: the popular vote to Hillary Clinton by more than two
Speaker 1: point eight million ballots. In the year two thousand, the
Speaker 1: closest presidential election in US history, George W. Bush narrowly
Speaker 1: won the White House with two hundred and seventy one
Speaker 1: electoral votes while receiving five hundred and forty three thousand,
Speaker 1: eight hundred and ninety five fewer popular votes than his opponent,
Speaker 1: Al Gore. The electoral college is generally unpopular. A May
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen poll found fifty three percent of Americans think
Speaker 1: it should be abolished, and according to a twenty nineteen
Speaker 1: report by the Congressional Research Service, there have been seven
Speaker 1: hundred different proposals floated in Congress that would reform or
Speaker 1: repeal the electoral College, which is enshrined in Article two
Speaker 1: of the Constitution and also in the twelfth Amendment. But
Speaker 1: despite centuries of opposition, the electoral College is alive in
Speaker 1: kicking because amending the Constitution or repealing and existing amendment
Speaker 1: is a huge political undertaking that requires supermajorities in Congress
Speaker 1: plus the president's signature. That's why electoral college critics are
Speaker 1: excited about a new approach that uses the Constitution's own
Speaker 1: language to bring power back to the popular vote, and
Speaker 1: it's getting traction. The National Popular Vote Plan doesn't require
Speaker 1: a constitutional amendment because it doesn't get rid of the
Speaker 1: electoral College. Supporters believe it brings parity back to the
Speaker 1: voting process, every vote would count, while opponents claim that
Speaker 1: any state sponsored attempt to mess with federal elections is
Speaker 1: by its very nature unconstitutional. We spoke with John Coza,
Speaker 1: the chair of National Popular Vote Incorporated, a nonprofit organization
Speaker 1: that's been lobbying states to join the movement since two
Speaker 1: thousand and six. Cosa's biggest gripe with the electoral College
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with what the Constitution says, but
Speaker 1: with state winner take all laws. These laws, which are
Speaker 1: on the books in forty eight states plus Washington, d c.
Speaker 1: Hand over all of the state's electoral votes to the
Speaker 1: candidate who gets the most votes at the state level.
Speaker 1: Cosa said, if you lose Florida by half a percent,
Speaker 1: you get nothing, and that's exactly what happened to Gore
Speaker 1: in two thousand plus. If you live in a state
Speaker 1: that constantly gives all of its electoral votes to the
Speaker 1: political party you're opposed to, you start to feel like
Speaker 1: your vote doesn't even count. A troubling side effect of
Speaker 1: the winner take all system is that presidential candidates have
Speaker 1: learned to campaign exclusively in so called battleground states, where
Speaker 1: both presidential candidates stand a good chance of winning. It
Speaker 1: makes perfect mathematical and financial sense. Don't waste time and
Speaker 1: states that are guaranteed to go blue or red, but
Speaker 1: go all in on the purple ones. As a result,
Speaker 1: says Cosa, in the twelve election, a hundred percent of
Speaker 1: campaign events and spending were focused on just twelve states.
Speaker 1: Incent of events in spending occurred in those same twelve states,
Speaker 1: and that can affect how and where government policy is made.
Speaker 1: For example, manufacturers in a battleground state like Ohio get
Speaker 1: a lot more attention from White House policymakers than farmers
Speaker 1: in a solid red state like Idaho. This hasn't always
Speaker 1: been the case. A. Cosa said that in nine seen
Speaker 1: sixty John F. Kennedy campaigned in thirty five states and
Speaker 1: his opponent, Richard Nixon, visited all fifty. Okay, but let's
Speaker 1: go back to the foundation of all of this. What
Speaker 1: it says in the Constitution about the electoral vote, the
Speaker 1: National Popular Vote movement Hinges on a clause contained an
Speaker 1: article to Section one. Each state hill appoint in such
Speaker 1: a manner as legislature thereof may direct a number of
Speaker 1: electors equal to the whole number of Senators and representatives
Speaker 1: to which the state may be entitled in Congress. According
Speaker 1: to National Popular Vote supporters, the Constitution requires the use
Speaker 1: of electors to choose the president, but it gives states
Speaker 1: the right to pick those electors in such a manner
Speaker 1: as they see fit. And that's exactly what fifteen states
Speaker 1: and Washington d C. Have done. They've chosen to pledge
Speaker 1: all of their electors to the winner of the national
Speaker 1: popular vote instead of their state level popular vote. Cosa explained,
Speaker 1: the Constitution sets up the electoral college, but doesn't say
Speaker 1: how these electors get to the electoral College. It leaves
Speaker 1: it totally up to the states instant only. This is
Speaker 1: how forty eight states plus DC ended up with a
Speaker 1: winner take all system in the first place. The winner
Speaker 1: take all idea isn't anywhere in the Constitution, explains Kosa.
Speaker 1: States past legislation one by one as majority politicians tried
Speaker 1: to consolidate power in the decades preceding the Civil War.
Speaker 1: Only Nebraska and Maine divvy up their electoral votes by
Speaker 1: congressional districts. Critics of the National Popular Vote movement argue
Speaker 1: that even if the interstate compact isn't expressly unconstitutional, it's
Speaker 1: at least anti constitutional. They point to the fact that
Speaker 1: the Founding Fathers created the Electoral College as a deliberate
Speaker 1: move away from direct democracy. By giving ultimate power over
Speaker 1: selecting the president to a representative body chosen by the states,
Speaker 1: it avoided the threat of unchecked majorityarianism. In the words
Speaker 1: of the Congressional Research Service report, the National Popular Vote
Speaker 1: plan and opponents say would undermine the intent of the
Speaker 1: Founding Fathers by bringing back majority rule. Other criticisms of
Speaker 1: the National Popular Vote proposal are that it would incur
Speaker 1: endless state recounts because so much will be writing on
Speaker 1: every single vote nationwide, not just in battleground states. Also
Speaker 1: that it would disadvantage smaller states over larger ones, and
Speaker 1: further that it would encourage multiparty elections in which a
Speaker 1: candidate could win the presidency with a plurality of votes
Speaker 1: but not a majority. In the extensive Answering Myths section
Speaker 1: of the National Popular Vote website, the organization addresses these
Speaker 1: criticisms and many more, generally arguing that the National Popular
Speaker 1: Vote scheme won't be any worse than what we have
Speaker 1: now and has the potential to function far better. For example,
Speaker 1: state recounts are already a pain, and fifteen American presidents
Speaker 1: have already won the White House without an absolute majority
Speaker 1: that's more than of the popular vote. Further, most of
Speaker 1: these smaller states are currently ignored during campaign season because
Speaker 1: they aren't battlegrounds. If you've paid attention on US election night,
Speaker 1: you know that two d and seven is the magic
Speaker 1: number of electoral College votes needed to win the presidency.
Speaker 1: It's also the same number of electoral College votes required
Speaker 1: to make National Popular Vote a reality. The only way
Speaker 1: for the Cooperative Interstates scheme to work is if all
Speaker 1: of their pooled electoral votes add up to a majority.
Speaker 1: As of this recording, National Popular Vote legislation has passed
Speaker 1: in states with a total of a hundred and ninety
Speaker 1: six electoral votes, which is seventy four shy of the goal.
Speaker 1: Maine could be the next to add its four humble
Speaker 1: electoral votes, but it will take some bigger states to
Speaker 1: sign on, many of which voted for Trump, who once
Speaker 1: again stands to benefit from the electoral College in the election.
Speaker 1: While the vast majority of states who have signed on
Speaker 1: to the National Popular Vote have been Democratic strongholds, Colorado
Speaker 1: became the first purple state to join in May, could
Speaker 1: more follow we'll keep you updated. Today's episode was written
Speaker 1: by Dave Brus and produced by Tyler Clang. Brain Stuff
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. For
Speaker 1: more in this and lots of other political topics, visit
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