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Speaker 1: Hey, we welcome in. I'm Doug Goliban. You are listening

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Speaker 1: to All Ball, All Basketball all the time. Quick note

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Speaker 1: that as we get closer and closer to the NBA

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Speaker 1: bubble um, we'll be having more and more of these

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Speaker 1: on balls. We even have some emergency on balls after

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Speaker 1: like the first Lakers Clipper games. So thanks for downloading.

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Speaker 1: Tell a friend. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Um,

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Speaker 1: you can go back through our archives. Last week we

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Speaker 1: had Mark Turn he was awesome. This week we're gonna

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Speaker 1: focus on two players allegedly set to join college basketball sometime.

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Speaker 1: Amanti Bates, who by most people's estimation, is one of

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Speaker 1: the best talents to ever play high school basketball. He's

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Speaker 1: maybe two years, maybe a year out from playing in college.

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Speaker 1: He said he doesn't want to play in college. He

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Speaker 1: committed to Michigan State, and then UM and then mccare

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Speaker 1: maker who was a Hunter recruit and just committed to

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Speaker 1: an h b c U and get a chance to

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Speaker 1: play potentially for historically black a college university. The problem

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Speaker 1: is he might not actually play for that college university.

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Speaker 1: What does it all mean. We'll get to that upcoming.

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Speaker 1: I want to give you a couple of thoughts here

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Speaker 1: on the NBA. I've heard comments Anthony Davis said, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're better than ever, We're healthy, we should be the favorite.

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Speaker 1: Um comes down to who's healthy and who wants it

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Speaker 1: more and we want it bad, right, That's basically what

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Speaker 1: he said. Here's the issue. They're not gonna have Avery Bradley.

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Speaker 1: They might not have Dwight Howard. And though I like

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Speaker 1: the j R. Smith addition, Jerry Smith could have been

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Speaker 1: at it anyway, probably would have been at it anyway.

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Speaker 1: The issue is their success directly of recent and their

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Speaker 1: dominance in the league. They became the best team in

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Speaker 1: the league over the five month of February. Do you

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Speaker 1: know who else was playing great in February. You're right,

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Speaker 1: Avery Bradley. They need him. He was a great on

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Speaker 1: balld to ender. He can make shots and play without

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Speaker 1: the basketball. Now Jr. Smith we think can make shots. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he's not the same type of defender, but a decent,

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Speaker 1: solid defensive player. He's just not the ball handler that

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Speaker 1: Avery Bradley is. It hurts them he's not. There's a

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Speaker 1: reason Jr. Smith was on the street and the reason

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Speaker 1: Avery Bradley was a starter. Right, there's the two different players.

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Speaker 1: So Bradley was coming into his own him staying home.

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Speaker 1: But but the bigger thing is we do this thing

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Speaker 1: in life, and maybe I do it because I'm I

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Speaker 1: have some narcissistic tendencies where you look at things from

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Speaker 1: only your perspective. So Anthony Davis is just looking at

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Speaker 1: from his perspective. His perspective is we're healthy. Lebron's rested.

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Speaker 1: Now he's had He was carrying a huge load. When

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Speaker 1: he's right, when he's fresh, he's the best player in

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Speaker 1: the league. That's Anthony Davis just played with him, and

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Speaker 1: Anthony Davis probably thinks I was a little worn down.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm fresh. The problem with it is so with

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Speaker 1: the Clippers, and if you look at the Clippers and

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Speaker 1: their issues, it was with cohesion. Well, now they get

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Speaker 1: an additional training camp, they get more time around each other,

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Speaker 1: then they get you know there uh early playoff games.

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Speaker 1: They'll have more time and games together, so that any

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Speaker 1: chemistry issues they previously had playing with Paul George and

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Speaker 1: Kawhi Leonard. This is like another season and another off

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Speaker 1: season and Kauai struggle to stay healthy. You would think

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Speaker 1: you would think that all the time away, all the

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Speaker 1: rehab work on his body. Kawhi Leonard should be back

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Speaker 1: to prime Kawhi Leonard, which is closer to his athletic

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Speaker 1: prime than Lebron James. So while I do think that

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Speaker 1: the Lakers arrested fresh and if they can stay healthy,

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Speaker 1: have a great chance, I think the Clippers benefit equally

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Speaker 1: and maybe even more so if lou Williams gets on

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Speaker 1: the plane and goes to Orlando and they have all

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Speaker 1: their players, which I think is gonna happen. So I

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Speaker 1: get the thought on the Lakers. I don't really understand

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Speaker 1: what's happening in Brooklyn. Spencer didn't we need legit surgery.

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Speaker 1: He's not gonna go. Kyrie is not gonna like nobody

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Speaker 1: wants to go. But I think that part of it

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Speaker 1: is this is about leadership. You know, Lebron leads wants

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Speaker 1: to go, all but one guy goes. Kyrie Irving questions

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Speaker 1: the league and whether they should do it. Kevin Durant

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to play even though he's healthy, and nobody

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Speaker 1: wants to go for Brooklyn. So look, do I think

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Speaker 1: the Clippers are favorites. I still have questions about the

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Speaker 1: Clippers outside of of Kauai. You know, their ability to

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Speaker 1: take and make big shots in the playoffs. They don't

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Speaker 1: seem to have as many guys. But then I have

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Speaker 1: the same questions about the Lakers. Anthon Davis never done

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Speaker 1: anything in the playoffs. J R. Has but is that's

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Speaker 1: the guy you're counting on, right, Like we have our questions,

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Speaker 1: Rondo hasn't done it in years. Um I love Cou's

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Speaker 1: and I think that I think, I think the biggest

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Speaker 1: question for the Lakers is this, If Kyle Kuzma is

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Speaker 1: right physically, is right mentally, they could be a much

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Speaker 1: better team because he had get to have really much

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Speaker 1: of an impact or a positive impact on the season.

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Speaker 1: When it stopped, it was everybody but Kuzma kind of

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Speaker 1: playing it at at their top level. If Cou's is back,

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Speaker 1: I would say the Lakers get back to being a favorite.

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Speaker 1: But it's a big if, especially considering they just lacked

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Speaker 1: the depth of guards and guys that create shots for others.

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Speaker 1: Um I. I also I look at the Bucks and

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Speaker 1: it's going to be very telling for that team, you know.

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Speaker 1: And and the the thing about the Bucks which is

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Speaker 1: fascinating to me, Chris Middleton says he didn't touch the

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Speaker 1: ball for three months. I don't. I don't believe him.

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Speaker 1: And if it's true, I think that's Uh, that's that's

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Speaker 1: not good news. Now you could That doesn't mean you're

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Speaker 1: not working out, but the development of your ball skills

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Speaker 1: and getting it back in a month in ramp up time.

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Speaker 1: Who that that is an uphill climb. I still think

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Speaker 1: it's the Clippers. I still think it's the Lakers. Um.

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Speaker 1: I'm intrigued to see what Houston looks like because when

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Speaker 1: you don't have remember you don't have home games, but

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Speaker 1: you also don't have road games, and they could be

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Speaker 1: a matchup problem, most specifically for the Lakers, who don't

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Speaker 1: have the the the number of perimeter players to guard

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Speaker 1: them and could struggle with small ball if Houston could

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Speaker 1: get hot. Uh. And I'm intrigued to see what Milwaukee

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Speaker 1: looks like because you have a team that has not

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Speaker 1: one big and they had a great home court. Them

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Speaker 1: losing that home court seems like the most like the

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Speaker 1: Lakers lose their home court and they were gonna play

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Speaker 1: the Clippers and would be like a home game when

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Speaker 1: they played the Clippers. But the Bucks, because of their youth,

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Speaker 1: because of the energy, Milwaukee, the desire to keep honest

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Speaker 1: and the desire to win a championship for the first

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Speaker 1: time since Kareem was there. I think the Bucks lose

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Speaker 1: the most and losing their home court, and we'll see

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Speaker 1: if Chris Middleton really is that rusty. Let's get you

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Speaker 1: to our guest for the day. Bryan Snow works seven Sports.

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Speaker 1: He's a basketball recruiting analyst. He knows everything the insides

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Speaker 1: and outs of the game from these guys when they're

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Speaker 1: you know, fourteen, fifteen years old. He's awesome of this

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Speaker 1: particular topic. He joins us Now on the All Ball

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Speaker 1: podcast b Amani Bates how good. He's really damn good?

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Speaker 1: And you know I wrote about this, Doug kind of

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Speaker 1: one of the things that really separates him from other

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Speaker 1: guys who have gotten the best since Lebron title, guys

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Speaker 1: like O J. Mayo, Kyreek Evans is he's not this

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Speaker 1: like overgrown, physically developed sixteen year old. He's actually got

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Speaker 1: a lot of room for growth. And then he's also

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Speaker 1: not this just freak athlete who you're hoping his skills

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Speaker 1: catch up. He's super skilled, super smart, has an incredible

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Speaker 1: work ethic, so he combines good physical tools with incredible intelligence.

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Speaker 1: Incredible work ethic and skills that are off the charts

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Speaker 1: and at six ft eight with you know, ball skills

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Speaker 1: on the wing. I mean, he just does things that

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Speaker 1: are so advanced for his age. It's it's really impressive.

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Speaker 1: Um okay, So, uh, why Michigan State? You why did

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Speaker 1: he choose Michigan State? I mean, quite honestly, they were

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Speaker 1: recruiting him. I mean it's really that simple. His dad

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Speaker 1: was getting all sorts of frustrated with the fact that

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Speaker 1: his son wasn't being recruited. He was universally considered the

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Speaker 1: best high school prospect and in this sport, and schools

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Speaker 1: just weren't recruiting him because they all thought he'd go

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Speaker 1: G League, G League select or overseas or or what.

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Speaker 1: They just thought he wasn't going to college. And Amani

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Speaker 1: himself has said he doesn't want to go to college.

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Speaker 1: He he wants to go right to the NBA. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't personally. There's a whole lot that goes into

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Speaker 1: that that's out of his control, obviously, including the NBA,

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Speaker 1: c B A, And as of right now, really only

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Speaker 1: one person wants to change that rule. And it's granted's

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Speaker 1: the most important person in sad and silver. But you

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Speaker 1: know there's not as nearly the momentum to change the

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Speaker 1: one and done rule as there was maybe six months ago.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that is because of the G

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Speaker 1: League selecting? Know? I think it's it's you talk to

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Speaker 1: scouts in front office people. They don't want to be

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Speaker 1: in high school gyms, correct, They want they want that

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Speaker 1: year of college development where one they learned what you're

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Speaker 1: like against other good, other good and developed players, and

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Speaker 1: two they learn what you're like when you're away from home.

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Speaker 1: Do you lose your mind and act of fool? Do

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Speaker 1: you show responsibility? You know? How do you how do

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Speaker 1: you react to everyday regimented things like you got to

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Speaker 1: be in the weight room, you gotta How do you

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Speaker 1: show up to practice? How do you show up to work?

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Speaker 1: Do you show maturity? How do you respect your coaches?

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Speaker 1: That's all very important to the NBA evaluation that you

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Speaker 1: simply can't get in high school, so it gives them

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Speaker 1: more certainty on what they're drafting. Listen, listen again, all

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Speaker 1: your points I agree with, and I know that they're

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Speaker 1: not just your points, their points of people that you

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Speaker 1: know in the business that you've talked to, why though,

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Speaker 1: this is weird. We we've gotten to this place, and

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Speaker 1: maybe I have to be careful about living in the

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Speaker 1: media realm and in the social media realm. But what

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Speaker 1: you're saying is what I know to be my thoughts,

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Speaker 1: but also the thoughts of lots of powerful NBA basketball

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Speaker 1: people as well as the NBA p A and and said, like,

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Speaker 1: those guys don't want more young guys in the league,

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Speaker 1: like they just they don't. It doesn't make the league better.

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Speaker 1: You need that year. You probably need two or three years,

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Speaker 1: to be totally honest with you. But anyway, why though,

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Speaker 1: do so many in our position? In your position in

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Speaker 1: the media is different than my position, right, you're much

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Speaker 1: more intrenched. But why are so many writers under the

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Speaker 1: belief that the one and done is a bad thing

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Speaker 1: and that they believe everybody wants to change it when

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Speaker 1: that's not Why the disconnect, I guess is my question.

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Speaker 1: It's it's tough for me to speak for other people. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think that I do think in some respect they

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Speaker 1: can see and they're correct and saying Adam Silver is

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Speaker 1: the guy championing this, and he's the guy with the

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Speaker 1: most power. But at the end of the day, he

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Speaker 1: does work for what is it, thirty owners, thirty two owners, whatever, um,

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Speaker 1: But he genuinely believes he wants because he believes just

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Speaker 1: on principle, that the players are the product and they

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Speaker 1: should be allowed to come to the NBA right away.

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Speaker 1: So he's viewing it from that perspective. Scouts are viewing

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Speaker 1: it from the we need to know what we're getting perspective,

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Speaker 1: and then gms are looking at it from the well,

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Speaker 1: our best value is when a guy is on a

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Speaker 1: rookie dealt at a one and done, you know, his

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Speaker 1: first year, we get some value out of him. But

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Speaker 1: if he's coming right out of high school, that's two

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Speaker 1: years of his rookie deal where we're not getting the

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Speaker 1: value we're supposed to be getting, which makes team building hard.

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Speaker 1: And so they they look at it from different perspective.

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Speaker 1: And then of course, as you mentioned the n B

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Speaker 1: a p A, they look at it from the respective

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Speaker 1: that we don't want to lose our jobs, our job,

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Speaker 1: you know, as the n B A p A. We

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Speaker 1: want to protect who's in the players Association now. So

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Speaker 1: I think right, I think right, just kind of missed that,

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Speaker 1: And there is the belief and I dug I know

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Speaker 1: you disagree, but I have this belief that players should

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Speaker 1: be compensated in college. So it's like they're getting the

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Speaker 1: wall end of the deal. And that plays mind games

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Speaker 1: on yourself into thinking that this makes it all better

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Speaker 1: by having them be able to go to the m

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Speaker 1: B A right, and that okay, so so so that

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Speaker 1: you have a great point, let's let's kind of go

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Speaker 1: through it like the GM. I actually think the GMS,

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Speaker 1: it's it. Look, they all get fired when they drafted

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Speaker 1: high school kids. Because here's what happens. And you draft

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Speaker 1: a high school kid, and you drafted a guy in

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Speaker 1: the first round, and the owners like, we'll play him, right, Like, okay,

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Speaker 1: well if we play them, we're not gonna win. Not

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Speaker 1: on play him. Let's see what we got. So you

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Speaker 1: play them, and you can't win. You can't win with

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Speaker 1: an eighteen nine year old kids, You just can't. No

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Speaker 1: one does right. And the first GM and the first

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Speaker 1: head coach always get fired, always, always always go back,

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Speaker 1: and look, they all get fired within two or three

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Speaker 1: years of drafting those guys earlier. There, even the ones

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Speaker 1: that became superstars, because they played them before they were

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Speaker 1: really ready to help you win. And so your team

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Speaker 1: is worse because of it, and people aren't really into

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Speaker 1: the owners aren't really into the process of wait a second,

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Speaker 1: he's gonna be good eventually, and you're playing him. Now

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Speaker 1: you're losing. Why are you losing? Now? Okay? So, um,

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Speaker 1: for the GM, if you draft a kid out of

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Speaker 1: high school, you play in the first I think the

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Speaker 1: first year is a total wash, total waste of time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the most ready guy, I guess was Kobe

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Speaker 1: and they got to the playoffs and he was bad.

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Speaker 1: But that's like the best and Kobe's a one in

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Speaker 1: a million, whereas Kevin Garnett and other stars weren't. Actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, Lebron, I guess would be the other one. Um, like,

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Speaker 1: those are two of the greatest players in the history

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Speaker 1: of the sport, right and and so so that's the

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Speaker 1: first thing. So GMS, the first year is a waste,

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Speaker 1: the second year is and after at and now all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you're starting to get into the where

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Speaker 1: that do we know what we have? Thing? I think

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Speaker 1: one of the big things that we're missing. And this

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Speaker 1: is where I actually do think players are compensated, because

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Speaker 1: I think they're compensated not just with getting into college

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Speaker 1: they couldn't get into but while they're there, but they're

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Speaker 1: also marketed. And I think what Adam Silver misses and

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Speaker 1: what like his big swing and misses. And it's better

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Speaker 1: for the league when they spend a year or two

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Speaker 1: in college, frankly the longer, because all we do as

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Speaker 1: broadcasters is promote these guys as something greater than And

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Speaker 1: the Zion Williamson effect is the perfect example. Zion benefited

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Speaker 1: from being a duke in terms of getting in shape

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Speaker 1: becoming a better player, but the biggest benefit was to

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Speaker 1: him as a in marketing. He became a superstar because

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Speaker 1: you align him as a YouTube star with the biggest

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Speaker 1: brand and the cleanest Again, I'm not telling you it

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Speaker 1: actually is clean. And the current investigation to his recruiting

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Speaker 1: may expose the ugly underbelly, but it's you combine those

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Speaker 1: two superpowers and you put him. He only played a

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Speaker 1: couple of n c A tournament games, he didn't play

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Speaker 1: a full season, but look what it did to the

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Speaker 1: marketing of him. Same thing for Kevin Durant. It's better

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Speaker 1: for the league when the players a little bit mature,

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Speaker 1: but also when they have a legit following once they

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Speaker 1: from just a year of playing in those big made

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Speaker 1: for TV events and in the n c A tournament. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and again, like I think I actually think it benefits

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Speaker 1: the NBA. I certainly think of benefits college basketball to

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Speaker 1: have these guys. I know some fans get into like,

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Speaker 1: well I don't get to know them, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, you still like watching your team win

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Speaker 1: more than you like getting to know the guy. So like,

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Speaker 1: I don't see where anyone moves in the current situation now, Like,

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Speaker 1: on principle, if you just asked me, on principle, like

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Speaker 1: if if I was writing rules of what I think

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Speaker 1: is right, I think they should have the right to

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Speaker 1: go to the b A. However, if it's collectively bargained

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Speaker 1: that they can't, I see no problem with that either,

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Speaker 1: because that's how the industry works through collective bargaining. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so much to it, especially in

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Speaker 1: regards to a money. Just to bring it back to

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Speaker 1: that for a second, like, you know, is he going

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Speaker 1: to move up to and you know, try to play

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Speaker 1: he would have to play two years in Michigan State

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Speaker 1: because of the age, because he's actually correct age, he's

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Speaker 1: not old. You know, two does he wait and see

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Speaker 1: if the rule gets changed. I mean, there's just so

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Speaker 1: much with the money in the NBA and what is

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Speaker 1: best for him and his marketing that it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: very unique to watch to see how the situation progresses

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Speaker 1: over the next two years. It's going to be fascinating

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Speaker 1: to see. And I think what's interesting is going to

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Speaker 1: be how Michigan State recruits around him, right, because the

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Speaker 1: words how he really feels well his dad and well

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Speaker 1: his commitment help Michigan State build some dream recruiting class,

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Speaker 1: much like Oklahoma State did around Kate Cunningham. Granted, no

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Speaker 1: one at his level, but they've done very, very well

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Speaker 1: and Kate ultimately showed up. Obviously, it helps his brother

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Speaker 1: was on staff UM, you know, or will it actually

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Speaker 1: be a detriment where no one actually believes he's coming,

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Speaker 1: but they have to save her a spot for him

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Speaker 1: over the next two years in case he does decide

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Speaker 1: to come and play UM and it actually ends up

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Speaker 1: being a detriment to them because everyone knows at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, he's going to figure out a

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Speaker 1: way to get around the rule and not actually play

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Speaker 1: in college. All right, let me let me get to

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Speaker 1: the news of the moment, which is uh uh which

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Speaker 1: we you know, like I think this is interesting. Mccore

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Speaker 1: maker ends up committing to Howard. Now Howard's HBCU historically

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Speaker 1: Black College. Um, and uh, it's it's interesting on a

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Speaker 1: multitude of levels. He not only committed, but you know

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Speaker 1: picked him ahead of U C. L A and Memphis

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Speaker 1: and Kentucky. Uh. He's a kid that's well traveled, right going,

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Speaker 1: you know modern, He went to Orange Lutheran and then

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Speaker 1: he kind of bounced around. He's a top fifty kid. First,

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Speaker 1: how good is mcermaker? You know, he's really good. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He's unique in that he's six ten, but he doesn't

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Speaker 1: really always play like a big man. Um. He tries

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Speaker 1: to play on the wing a little bit more than

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Speaker 1: I would like. But but he's talented. He's six foot

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Speaker 1: Tenny can dribble, pass and shoot. He's a you know,

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Speaker 1: he's he's not a great athlete, he's an okay athlete.

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Speaker 1: But he's got good length and you know, he's stilled.

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Speaker 1: He knows how to play. So he's a really talented

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Speaker 1: player that is still working to put it all together.

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Speaker 1: But he's a really talented player. How how big is

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Speaker 1: this for the sport that he picked an HP Kenny

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Speaker 1: Blakeney who But if anybody has paid attention, Um, Howard

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Speaker 1: was terrible last year and Kenny's first year. Now, I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying it's an easy job. Any of those jobs

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Speaker 1: there's those are tough jobs. They won three games against

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Speaker 1: Division one opponents three and uh he's going there. How

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Speaker 1: how big is this for the sport in your mind?

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Speaker 1: And for recruiting? Um? You, Oh, I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: as big as some people do. I'll be honest, just

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Speaker 1: because I hesitate to think that a lot of kids

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Speaker 1: are going to follow this path. Now maybe they will,

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Speaker 1: and if they do that that is a big game changer.

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Speaker 1: But when you look at mccurr situation, it's just so unique.

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Speaker 1: I mean, his guardian Ed Smith, who was Thawnmaker's guardian.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think I'm breaking any news here. A

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Speaker 1: lot of schools just aren't going to deal with the man.

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Speaker 1: I mean they're just not so Like, I know Kentucky

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Speaker 1: was on his list. Was Kentucky really recruiting him? Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. Um, did you see Like I've

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Speaker 1: known McK cronan for fifteen years, like, is that kid

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Speaker 1: gonna play for mc cronin. I don't know how that's

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Speaker 1: gonna work, but maybe you feel what I really wanted.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying they don't. So by him going to

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Speaker 1: Howard is first of all, I think he'll definitely be

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Speaker 1: eligible at Howard, which which is a big part of this.

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Speaker 1: But you still have the kids still wants to go

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Speaker 1: to the NBA. ED still wants him to get paid.

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Speaker 1: He did the same thing with Thawn. Thawn committed to

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Speaker 1: thank than committed to a school or was planning to

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Speaker 1: commit to a school, and then ultimately he went to

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Speaker 1: the NBA. Um I think in Ed mind, the kids

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Speaker 1: still going to go to the NBA. But this is

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Speaker 1: kind of the backup plane. So there's this part of

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Speaker 1: me that wonders, is this actually going to hurt the

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Speaker 1: movement of HBCUs getting tough kids if he backs out

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Speaker 1: at the last minute because he still is in the

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Speaker 1: NBA draft process. Um, So I don't. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I still think there's so much left to it in

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Speaker 1: terms of you know what, kids are going to seriously

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Speaker 1: consider that option. What aren't mccerrmaker is not this kid who,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of other kids hang out with and

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Speaker 1: look up to. He's not you know, he's not a

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Speaker 1: trailblazer in that regard. He's never been Mr. Popular on

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Speaker 1: the circuit and stuff like that. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: if he's the guy that that really would start a movement,

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Speaker 1: But if it does, it will be interesting to watch.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's no question about that. I think people

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Speaker 1: forget in the seventies, and again this is second and

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Speaker 1: information my dad, my late father told me, which he's like, Look,

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, there was a movement um in

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Speaker 1: basketball to the best black players to go play in

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Speaker 1: the Ivy League. James Brown, who of course the broadcast

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Speaker 1: for CBS, was a great player at Harvard UM and

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Speaker 1: they had other great players at Harvard. That that movement

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Speaker 1: kind of obviously slowly died off once when when the

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Speaker 1: n c A tournament expanded and UM and the Ivy League,

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Speaker 1: you know, clearly chose to not use its resources towards sports,

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Speaker 1: that thing died off kind of quickly. But he's like,

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Speaker 1: there was a five year There was five years there

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Speaker 1: where between. You know, Columbia recruited New York City kids

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Speaker 1: and and Harvard and uh UM and and Penn really

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Speaker 1: you know, they had they all had some of the

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Speaker 1: some of the top if they didn't really top Hunter,

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Speaker 1: but some of the top kids from the East Coast

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Speaker 1: would go there. I guess the the big one would

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Speaker 1: be Mikey Williams. And he's only a freshman going to

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Speaker 1: be a sophomore. He's old, which means he could be

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Speaker 1: draft eligible or he could, you know, he could you know,

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Speaker 1: go to the G League select team after his junior

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Speaker 1: year and then potentially go to the NBA. Like Mikey

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Speaker 1: Williams is the one that that changes the things, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if Mikey does it, that's a little bit different. You know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of he's friends with a lot of kids.

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Speaker 1: A lot of kids really like Mikey. You know, they

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Speaker 1: know about him, they look up to him. He's not

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Speaker 1: this like random kid who's kind of been in Canada

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Speaker 1: and then been at every other high school and is

427
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 1: you know, transferred five different times who no one really

428
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 1: got got to know. So you know, that's where it's

429
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 1: like a kid like Mike Williams. It's a whole different

430
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: beast than mckermaker. Also, like Mikey, you like, he's theoretically

431
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: at least not already declared for the NBA Draft and

432
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: had made those intentions known at the beginning. You know.

433
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 1: That's the thing with McKerr is, like he's been telling

434
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: people and Ed Smith's been telling people, like, you know,

435
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: he's going to the NBA. They because technically, and without

436
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 1: getting into the minutia of it, like if he were

437
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 1: quote unquote American born, he wouldn't be draft eligible because

438
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: he's not a year removed from high school, but they

439
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 1: applied based on him being Canadian, I guess, or he's

440
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: from Australia. You know. It's it's the whole big thing

441
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: where they basically like they did with Phonemaker, where they

442
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: found a loophole to get him draft eligible a year earlier,

443
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 1: and they did that with mccurr as well. So it's

444
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 1: just every situation is different. Mikey as a kid, and

445
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: it's not just limited to a kid like Mike Williams,

446
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: but he's mentioned it publicly so it's easy to say

447
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: his name. But a kid like Mike Williams just has

448
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: a whole different impact than a kid like mccermake. Um okay, uh,

449
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: last thing, um the duke thing with Zion Williamson like,

450
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: I still like, Okay, so we've had um first, like

451
00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: Oklahoma State got just crushed with the a uh probation

452
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: or whatever taking them out of the tournament for the

453
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: one year they have Kay Cunningham and the people I

454
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: talked to you like, look, do they have real grounds

455
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: for appeal? Sure, but the idea that the n c A,

456
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: who just put these new kind of policies into effect,

457
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: is going to go like now we'll change our mind

458
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: doesn't seem likely. So we haven't. They had one level

459
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: one violation whereas Kansas is five. And then you have

460
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: the Duke thing. What does this end up looking like?

461
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: In your opinion, you've been around this like your entire

462
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: professional life. What do you think this ends up looking

463
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: like for college basketball? If in fact we have a

464
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: season this year? Um? So that's a really good question. First,

465
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: you know, and we got the wedding. I forget which

466
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: acronym or whatever is that the uses for their new

467
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: independent review board. But you know, so we've never seen

468
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: how quickly or how not quickly that that's gonna work.

469
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: So would kansas Is case even be resolved this year?

470
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: I don't no. The thing with cancers that is tricky?

471
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: Is the n c A kind of went over T. J.

472
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: Gath Nola's, who was an Adidas representative, went over his

473
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: transcript of his court report and basically said, well, we

474
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: like this sentence, but we don't like this one. We

475
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: think he was lying here, but oh he was this sentence, Yeah,

476
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: that sounds like the truth up, we don't like this one,

477
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: and kind of picked and choose. I don't know how

478
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 1: that's really gonna hold out. It seems like if you're

479
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: gonna take testimony as fact, you have to take the

480
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 1: entire testimony as fact, and they really didn't do that.

481
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: Um So, I'll be really interested on that front, just

482
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: to see how that goes. The Duke thing, I don't

483
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: think that's ever going to see the light of day.

484
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: I just I don't think Zion is gonna have to testify.

485
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone's gonna have to talk about his

486
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: time at Duke. So I don't think that will ever

487
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: see the light of day. Um So, I think Duke

488
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: will be fine in that regard. Now, whether they did

489
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: or didn't do that, I personally do not know. But

490
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, like, I just don't think it will ever

491
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: be a matter of public record n C. I really

492
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: won't have anything to go on. So if we have

493
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: a season, I would think, Duke's fine. Kansas, we have

494
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 1: no idea because we don't know how quickly the board's

495
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: gonna work. Then the Oklahoma State thing was like they

496
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: were trying to make this like statement and it just

497
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. No, it doesn't. It doesn't make sense

498
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: at all, right, I mean the you have to take

499
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: so many leaps, right, Well, Mike Boyton was on staff

500
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: when this took place. Yeah, but he was like the

501
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 1: third assistant. Well he kept he kept the assistant in question, Okay,

502
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: but he's not alleged to have known or have any

503
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: sort of influence on it. And they didn't actually get that.

504
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: It didn't. It doesn't. It doesn't seem to hold up.

505
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: But I agree with you. Once you can't say we

506
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: had this independent board and we're going to empower them.

507
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: You empower them, and then the first big decision they

508
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: make say, no, that was too we're gonna you know,

509
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: we we think it was too tough. Like that's I

510
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: think Oklahoma State gets caught up in really really bad timing.

511
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: I really think that's what ends up happening. It would

512
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: seem that way. What I can't figure out is it's

513
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: all been about like head coach control. And I'm not

514
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: trying to throw anybody under the bus, but the head

515
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: coach at the time was Bred Underwood, and nothing's happened

516
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: to in nor nor anything brought up. It's like, well,

517
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: what why is Mike Boyden's name brought up in Brad Underwood?

518
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: That's what That's the point I can't like even like

519
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: grasp in my mind. And it's not that I think

520
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: or want Brad to get in trouble, because you know,

521
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: just genuinely at the human being, I don't feel that way.

522
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 1: But it's like, why is Mike paying for someone else's sin?

523
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: And right? And why is Oklahoma State? I guess why

524
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: is Oklahoma State paying for somebody else's sins? But yeah,

525
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: make more more my why why is Mike? Yeah, it's

526
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 1: I it's very confusing. It's very confusing, and I'm I'm

527
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: willing to believe that with with the with the level

528
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: of investigation that they were able to have that if

529
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: Underwood didn't really know about all that was going on, right,

530
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: And I think that's it's it's generally believed that you know,

531
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: obviously the exception is built up because he's on the

532
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: phone with these guys. But unless there's phone calls with

533
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: with bred Underwood, like, I'm willing to believe that Bred

534
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: Unwards like, get it done and let me know what

535
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: I need to do. Get done, right, that's what That's

536
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: what you tell a guy who's out the recruit, get

537
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: it done and let me know. Um, maybe he's not

538
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: privy to those conversations, but I'm with you. Then why

539
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: is Mike Boyden, who's like two steps removed from it

540
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: now suffering the consequences from something that he had no

541
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: idea about that that actually existed. That doesn't make sense

542
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: to me. I don't know. Yeah, I just failed to

543
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: find the like I'm I'm I'm more concerned with the

544
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: process than the actual result. And this was a flawed process.

545
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: Because if you have a flawed process, fundamentally, you're gonna

546
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: get okay, last last thing and then and then we

547
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: both got to run. Okay. Um, let's say the Warriors

548
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: have the first pick. If you're gonna pick one guy

549
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 1: in this NBA draft, who is it for me? I'm

550
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: always trying to pick the player because I'm not worried

551
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: about position fit as much. And you know, like my

552
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: current roster, to me, if you get the best player ultimately,

553
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: that's going to help you win more games because in

554
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: the NBA you can make trades and everything, and I

555
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: personally think the best players Anthony Edwards James Wiseman being

556
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,479
Speaker 1: a center and not shooting threes, I can't take him

557
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: number one. LaMelo Ball. He has a lot of hype

558
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: from places that benefit him to get hype, and like

559
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,719
Speaker 1: they just gloss over the fact that he shot like

560
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: from three and have like one good game. So I

561
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: can't get with that either. Not to mention he's never

562
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: dominated at any level, not in Australia, not in high school. Like,

563
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: that's gonna be a tough sell for me. So I'm

564
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: going with Anthony Edwards. He's a beast. The only thing

565
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: people can pick a part was he didn't shoot well

566
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: at Georgia, which was not a good team. But plenty

567
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: of guys have not shot well in their first year

568
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: in college basketball. If you watch them shoot, they'll become

569
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: good shooters. Great stuff, Brian, great stuff. Thank you so

570
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: much for joining us and giving us your perspective. Thanks

571
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug

572
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon Pacific. All right, look,

573
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: my my general takeaway is this. I think when players

574
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: commit to playing in college, it's a good thing. And

575
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: I am like anybody, I've always wondered. I've always wondered, like,

576
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: are there going to be you know, five of the

577
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: top high school basketball players in the country to get

578
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: together and say, let's go play for Howard, you know,

579
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: let's go play for Hampton, Let's go play for Norfolk State.

580
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: Now the the issue becomes one, Uh, do you have

581
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: not just the coaching because Blake is playing good enough,

582
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: but the resources. Do you have the resources to support them?

583
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: So their bodies changed, their games changed, like really as

584
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: far as crowds and that that stuff does become overrated. Um,

585
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: And is mckerrmaker a big enough name to demand uh,

586
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: ESPN and Fox CBS put them on TV? Probably not,

587
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: But m Mikey Williams would Mike Williams wood And that's

588
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: the part. That's the point where the tipping point. Until

589
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: then it's all talk. Personally, I think it's awesome and

590
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: I think it would be awesome if guys went to

591
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: the Ivy League they like they used to in the

592
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. UM. Because the truth is, at least by

593
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: my estimation, the greatest way to elevate yourself, your family,

594
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: your race is through education and the people that you're around.

595
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: And some of the champions of black businesses go to Morehouse,

596
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: go to go to Hampton, UH, go to go to

597
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: Norfolk State. UM. But to this point we have not

598
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: seen any sort of influx. And the question becomes through

599
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: some of these NBA players, or some alumni or just

600
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: some very successful black businessmen, decide we're going to invest

601
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: in these per grams, get them the best facilities and

602
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: strength coaches and practice facilities. Because when you do, then

603
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: you can really be at at the same starting gate

604
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: as the rest of Division one college basketball Division one

605
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: college football. Until then you've got a massive uphill climb,

606
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: and you're asking a player to make a leap of

607
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: faith and an amount of sacrifice that many aren't willing

608
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: to make, even if only four six months and a

609
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: one and done, or for for several years. UM. But

610
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: I think it could be a great thing. I think

611
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: the Ivy League could be a great thing because the

612
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: truth is that the facilities are. Facilities are generally overrated.

613
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: Nobody became a great player because of facilities. They didn't.

614
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: You became a great player because you had natural born talent.

615
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: You've gotten a gym, you worked in your game, you

616
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: had good coaching, you worked in your game some more,

617
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: and you played in games, and you worked and worked

618
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: and worked and got better. Watch film, and you can

619
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: do that anywhere anywhere. But we we do all get

620
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: caught up in chasing the shiny stuff I do. And

621
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: sometimes the shiny stuff is a reno or a practice facility,

622
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: or the best shoes and best gear and TV but

623
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: games on TV. That doesn't determine whether or not you

624
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: play in the NBA. They find you wherever you are.

625
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: So we'll see if mccerr maaker or if Mikey Williams,

626
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: if that changes the landscape of things. It could, and

627
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: if it does, we're all better because of it. But

628
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: if not, it's just a one off story. And McKerr

629
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: maaker was simply chasing headlines and he ends up declaring

630
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: for the NBA going to the G League, and we

631
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: forget about that this ever happened, and there is no

632
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: movement or pushed towards hbc US. But it does ask

633
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: the question why hasn't this happened already and when is

634
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: it legitimately going to become a thing. Not yet, but

635
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: we're close. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball