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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily and this is Bridget, and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom never told you. Today, we're going

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Speaker 1: to break down a made for social media trend that

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Speaker 1: has been popping up in my new speed more and

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Speaker 1: more these days. And I'm curious, Bridget. It's something you're

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of two and it's one of those

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Speaker 1: things that seems very innocuous until you take a closer look.

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Speaker 1: And that's why today we're breaking down and unpacking. You

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Speaker 1: might even say, what gender reveal parties reveal about us

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Speaker 1: as a society and our relationship with gender and sex.

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Speaker 1: So you've seen these, right, Bridget, Oh. Being raised in

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Speaker 1: the South, I have seen my fair share of them.

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Speaker 1: People in the South love this kind of thing. Yes,

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Speaker 1: people in the South love the performative aspects of weddings

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Speaker 1: and childhood. I feel like, I feel like the way

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Speaker 1: that social media algorithms are almost designed, it magnifies the

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Speaker 1: impact of those big life moments like having a child.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, the most liked image you'll ever

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Speaker 1: have for a lot of folks is your baby or

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Speaker 1: your pregnancy announcement or whatever it might be. And now

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Speaker 1: for for parents who are demarcating those pivot points in

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Speaker 1: your life, getting pregnant, you know, announcing that pregnancy, or

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Speaker 1: getting married, or making that transition in your life. When

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Speaker 1: it comes to your identity, there is a performative aspect

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Speaker 1: to it because of how social media makes our lives

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Speaker 1: different nowadays. Don't you think like social media makes our

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Speaker 1: lives the performance in ways everything about our lives can

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Speaker 1: be a performance on social media, right, So it seems

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Speaker 1: natural and understandable that there would be new ends coming

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Speaker 1: up in our lives that are made for social media.

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Speaker 1: But this one, to me is very troubling because it's

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Speaker 1: not just about oh, you found out the gender of

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Speaker 1: the baby, and the very well intentioned desire to share

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Speaker 1: that news with the world and share it with your

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Speaker 1: family and share it with your loved ones, but it

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Speaker 1: actually says to me that we as a society define

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Speaker 1: human beings by our gender even before we're born, in

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Speaker 1: in a way that can be really, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: problematic and troubling. I think problematic and troubling, but also

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Speaker 1: kind of tacky sometimes. Yeah, So let's break down what

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Speaker 1: you're right. Let's like, let's define what these gender revealed

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Speaker 1: parties are for anyone who I don't know, is too

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Speaker 1: cool for Facebook and doesn't have a Facebook account, maybe

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Speaker 1: or has been living under a rock for the last

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Speaker 1: ten years or so. A gender revealed party is what

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Speaker 1: a couple finds out the gender of the baby, but

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Speaker 1: they keep it under lock and key, so they keep

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Speaker 1: it a secret, even from themselves. Sometimes the doctors asked

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Speaker 1: to write and put in an envelope. Then they handed

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Speaker 1: to a third party who arranges something crafty you might

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Speaker 1: even say kitchy. Then at some public party with all

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Speaker 1: their friends and family and maybe live streaming it on

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Speaker 1: the internet, they reveal whatever it is, whatever crafty thing

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Speaker 1: that is going to be dyed pink or blue to

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Speaker 1: tell what the gender of the baby is. So some

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Speaker 1: of these things you wanna Some of them are really inventive.

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Speaker 1: That you might make a cake where when the person

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Speaker 1: cuts into the cake, the inside of the cake is

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Speaker 1: blue for a boy, pink for a girl. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: will put some balloons in a box and then when

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Speaker 1: the parents open the box, either pink or blue balloons emerge. Um,

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Speaker 1: some of them are even more inventive something I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 1: some of the gender reveal cakes. If y'all google this

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Speaker 1: or find them on Pinterest are weirdly related to the

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Speaker 1: sex organs of your unborn child, which find I find

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Speaker 1: super creepy. But there are cakes that are decorated to

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Speaker 1: say stick or no stick over the baby's for the keenista.

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Speaker 1: Or there's like cakes that say we're here for the sex,

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Speaker 1: like wink wink, like we're at a party to find

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Speaker 1: out what the sex is, like I'm here for the

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Speaker 1: sex like it's a much more exciting party than it

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Speaker 1: actually is. Can you imagine thinking that you're showing up

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Speaker 1: for an orgy and it's actually a baby reveal like party? Um?

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Speaker 1: The only looking at some of the gender reveals. The

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Speaker 1: only one that I actually was like sort of on

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Speaker 1: board with was the car burnout where someone does like

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Speaker 1: doughnuts and I'm parking lot and whether somehow they get

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Speaker 1: like blue or pink exhaust come out of the I

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Speaker 1: think it's like dust on the ground or something. I

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Speaker 1: was kind of I was like that, actually, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of cool from a logistics standpoint. Then there was the

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Speaker 1: mom who dyed her hair but she didn't know if

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Speaker 1: it was dyed pink or blue until the towel came off,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was creative. I guess inventive for sure.

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Speaker 1: We would be remiss to mat mention the couple who

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Speaker 1: were good enthusiasts who pointed a rifle at a target

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Speaker 1: full of different colored chalks, so when they shot the target,

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Speaker 1: you would either have red smoke or blue smoke. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So if you want your you know, to mark the

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Speaker 1: beginning of your beautiful journey of bringing your life into

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Speaker 1: this world with a firearm, I think yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that is they nailed that. If that was their intentioned it,

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Speaker 1: they killed it. Speaking of inventive gender reveals, there was

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Speaker 1: one that I was just reading about online. They write

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Speaker 1: at my gender revealed party, and all my guests joined

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Speaker 1: me at a round table where we gazed into a

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Speaker 1: large crystal ball. After chanting x X and y X

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Speaker 1: for half an hour, the smoke bomb I carefully prepared

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Speaker 1: went off and then Whoopie Goldberg grows from a trapdoor

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Speaker 1: I very handily had my husband installed in our living room.

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Speaker 1: Whoopee rose up and Molly, you're having a girl girl.

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Speaker 1: Everyone cried and we gave will be her check and

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Speaker 1: she left. Actually that's not a real gender reveal, it's

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Speaker 1: from a really funny genl essay full of hilarious fake

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Speaker 1: gender reveal stories, and I really implore you to read

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Speaker 1: because it's hilarious, right, So it's I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: it is easy to poke fun at it. It is

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Speaker 1: easy to think about how outrageous a gender revealed party

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Speaker 1: you can have, because it does feel like every other

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Speaker 1: day on Reddit or some Facebook groups somewhere, there's like

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Speaker 1: a couple that goes viral for whatever insane way they've

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Speaker 1: decided to reveal their gender. But you know, as yuppy heathens,

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Speaker 1: single women without children, I think it's important for us

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Speaker 1: to also acknowledge that while we might sort of poke

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Speaker 1: fun at this kitchy new trend, it really does belie

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Speaker 1: something very meaningful and very understandable. It comes from a

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Speaker 1: really good place for new parents who simply want to

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Speaker 1: sell rate this milestone in their lives. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that it's really a throwback to the ceremonial aspects of

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Speaker 1: bringing a life into this world and making it be

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Speaker 1: this communal, democratized thing where we all find out, like

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Speaker 1: the community of people who love this child are all

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Speaker 1: finding out the gender together. If you take away this

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Speaker 1: sort of creepy gendered aspects of it, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: a beautiful thing I can understand, right, And in fact,

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Speaker 1: a scholar who was writing first Smithsonian Laura Trump, totally

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Speaker 1: agrees with you and thinks it has something to do

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Speaker 1: really directly with the medicalization of pregnancy and the totally

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Speaker 1: natural instinct for in our highly medicalized world to take

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Speaker 1: back some of the mysticism and ritual that used to

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Speaker 1: be a bigger part of pregnancy. She writes, the party

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Speaker 1: is suspenseful because it reveals a secret, egalitarian because everyone

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Speaker 1: finds out at once, and delicious cake the perfect afternoon

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Speaker 1: unheard of a decade or two ago, gender revealed. Part

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Speaker 1: These are the latest manifestation of the conflict between modern

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Speaker 1: technological pregnancy and its ancient legacy of mystery. That this

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Speaker 1: all plays out through pink and blue Cake speaks to

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Speaker 1: the peculiar anxieties and ironies of our time. I think

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Speaker 1: she's spot on, and I think you even see that

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Speaker 1: in some of the other rituals that have now risen

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Speaker 1: in the age of childbearing and social media. Think about

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Speaker 1: elaborate photo shoots when you have a baby, um, Think

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Speaker 1: about those monthly pictures that you do where you're demonstrating

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Speaker 1: your child's growth and talking about like, oh baby whoever

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Speaker 1: at age two loves this and loves that. Um, I

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Speaker 1: think that you do see people returning to this highly

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Speaker 1: ritualistic way of marking bringing a child into the world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I totally agree, And I think we would be remiss

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Speaker 1: to not acknowledge that there's a financial incentive in the

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Speaker 1: marketplace for these rituals to become capitalistic endeavors. Right, Like,

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Speaker 1: we know that the wing industrial complex is real in

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Speaker 1: this country. So if they can charge four times the

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Speaker 1: amount for a wedding photographer that they would for any

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Speaker 1: other photographer, I'm sure that there is a reason behind

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Speaker 1: the growth and ritualization of childbearing and pregnancy because there's

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Speaker 1: also a market for that. And so she goes on

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Speaker 1: to write that the gender revealed party has become just

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Speaker 1: yet another ritual and for parents, it's a way to

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Speaker 1: retrieve the mysteries of pregnancy. In the past, the pregnant

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Speaker 1: woman had little power over her life, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of knowledge about her body at the time, knowledge that

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Speaker 1: other people depended on them to reveal. Gender revealed parties

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Speaker 1: reclaim the privilege of revelation along with some control parents

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Speaker 1: can orchestrate these parties choose their rituals and plan for

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Speaker 1: their future with the knowledge that they're likely to survive

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Speaker 1: childbirth unlike ancient times, even though we do know that

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Speaker 1: our mortality rate infant more reality rate and maternal mortality

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Speaker 1: rate in this country is less than ideal. But basically,

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Speaker 1: it's a reclaiming of the knowledge that used to be

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Speaker 1: very intimately held by the mother alone or by the

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Speaker 1: active birth alone, that now doctors have. Doctors have that

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Speaker 1: power and knowledge. Doctors and science have yielded all of

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Speaker 1: those outcomes, but by retaining the control over how to

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Speaker 1: orchestrate your own gender reveal party, it kind of feels

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Speaker 1: like the parents are reclaiming that power. That's so interesting

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Speaker 1: and I can't help but think of some of the

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Speaker 1: older women in my family who are totally ritualistic when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the gender of babies who are still

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Speaker 1: in utero, where they'll be like, oh, I, when I

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Speaker 1: put my hand on your belly, it sits high. That

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Speaker 1: means it's gonna be a boy, or you if you

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Speaker 1: are really gassy, it's gonna be a girl. A lot

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Speaker 1: of the women in my family, they have these ideas

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Speaker 1: about how you can glean things about the future gender

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Speaker 1: of your baby in these ways that are not frankly

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Speaker 1: very scientific, but sort of wedded to this idea of

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Speaker 1: you know, spirituality and old wives tale. Then oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, when my sister was pregnant, she only wanted

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Speaker 1: to eat beats. And so no, I totally know what

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Speaker 1: you mean, because it feels like this familial mythical conversation

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Speaker 1: that's now playing out on social media, and it's performative.

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Speaker 1: It's still grounded in science, right, because the doctor gave

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Speaker 1: you that decision or gave you that conclusion. And here's

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Speaker 1: the thing, right for our listeners who have had these parties,

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Speaker 1: we're not trying to come down on you at all,

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Speaker 1: because these parties seem perfectly innocuous. They seem benign, even

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Speaker 1: if we are annoyed at them, or even if you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh great, another blue cupcake. This is cute. I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to like your image on social media, even if

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Speaker 1: you do roll your eyes at them. It's not just

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Speaker 1: that they're all over Pinterest. It's not just that there's

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Speaker 1: another expectation for parents to get this pinteresty perfect life

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Speaker 1: on on social media. There's something more troubling to this,

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Speaker 1: and that is all of the highly stereotyped, gendered expectations

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Speaker 1: that this weirdly sets your entire family up to be promoting.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to uncover some of the troubling repercussions

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Speaker 1: that can come from gender reveled parties being mainstream. After

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Speaker 1: a quick word from our sponsors, all right, we're back,

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Speaker 1: and we are diving into why gender revealed parties make

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Speaker 1: us a little uncomfortable and why we should all think

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about them before we just blindly

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Speaker 1: follow this sort of made for social media trend amongst

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Speaker 1: parents to be So, what's wrong with gender revealed parties? Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, they should really be called sex revealed

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Speaker 1: parties if anything, because they tend to conflate gender and sex.

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Speaker 1: So gender and sex are different things. A doctor doesn't

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Speaker 1: actually know your gender. If anything, a doctor's look get

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Speaker 1: an image of your genitalia and saying this is your sex.

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Speaker 1: But the two things are different. I mean, you shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be conflating them. Right, So we know that people who

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Speaker 1: happen to be born the vast majority of us who

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Speaker 1: happen to be born with a gender identity. Let's say,

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Speaker 1: in my case, I identify as as a woman as

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Speaker 1: female that aligns with your sex organs. Not everybody is

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Speaker 1: born that way, right, That's what SIS identity is, right,

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Speaker 1: That's what we talk about when we say sis, is

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Speaker 1: that alignment between your sex organs or what a doctor

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Speaker 1: tells you you are in terms of male or female

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Speaker 1: and your identity, your sense of your own gender that

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Speaker 1: you have as an identity. Now, trans folks and intersex

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Speaker 1: folks whose sex organs aren't immediately identified as definitely in

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Speaker 1: one of the category or the other, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a whole spectrum not only to your sex organs, but

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Speaker 1: obviously to gender in a in a highly sort of

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Speaker 1: gender fluid environment that we're now coming to embody and

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Speaker 1: embrace as a society. And I think anything that pushes

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Speaker 1: back on this notion that a doctor looking in between

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Speaker 1: an infant's legs seeing genitals and saying it's a girl

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Speaker 1: or it's a boy, anything that pushes back on that idea,

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Speaker 1: I think is good. And I gender revealed parties do not.

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Speaker 1: You make it very clear that what you are is

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Speaker 1: what's in between your legs and that's all there is

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Speaker 1: to it. And we know that's not true exactly, So

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Speaker 1: imagine you're born with what a doctor deems to be

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Speaker 1: male sex organs, and you identify as female, and you

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Speaker 1: spend your entire life trying to figure that out and

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Speaker 1: trying to get the rest of your loved ones to

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Speaker 1: figure it out with you. But mom and dad already

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Speaker 1: had the gender revealed party, and it's a boy, and

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Speaker 1: on that cake there was a football and or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, on the that party,

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Speaker 1: we sort of dreamt about all the things that you

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Speaker 1: were going to do with your son as you grew up.

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Speaker 1: And coming to grips with that dissonance between expectation and

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Speaker 1: reality is hard enough as it is. Like parents of

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Speaker 1: trans know this better than anyone, but a gender revealed

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Speaker 1: party misrepresents or mistakes rather sex organs deemed by a

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Speaker 1: doctor in utero for gender identity. And that's a problem.

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Speaker 1: That's a problem for all of us who are just

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Speaker 1: trying to be accepted for who we are. And I

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Speaker 1: think even beyond that, I think that for kids and

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Speaker 1: for parents, it really illustrates to this kid that your

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Speaker 1: gender matters to your parents, and I don't think that

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Speaker 1: we should be enforcing that idea in kids. It matters

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Speaker 1: to everybody, like everyone shows up to your entire your

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Speaker 1: your entire community is very invested in like your gender identity.

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Speaker 1: I think that is setting a kid up for a lot,

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Speaker 1: even before this kid is born. And it makes you wonder, like,

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Speaker 1: why are these parties important to us? Why do these

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Speaker 1: parties exist? We are so fixated on gender as a

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Speaker 1: way to understand a person that we're already gendering people

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Speaker 1: before they're born. Smithsonian's Laura Troup again rites as the

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Speaker 1: French philosopher Simone de Beauvoir said, one is not born,

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Speaker 1: but rather becomes a woman. A person's gender identity may

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Speaker 1: not match the sex they were assigned at birth, and

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Speaker 1: gender roles are culturally constructed notions. And this idea that

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Speaker 1: you can predict an unborn child's gender is really not

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Speaker 1: possible based on an in utero snapshot of their reproductive

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Speaker 1: organs alone. I think that's so spot on. And as

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Speaker 1: Marty Seroy writes over at Huffo, uh Si Roy is

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Speaker 1: a mom of three kids, and she also is a

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Speaker 1: therapist who works with the parents of trans children. She

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Speaker 1: really makes it clear that we should be letting children

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Speaker 1: have more autonomy over how they decide their own gender expressions.

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Speaker 1: She writes, children will reveal their own gender identity and

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Speaker 1: or expression at some point along the way, whether that

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Speaker 1: is sis, gender, gender nonconforming, gender creative, a gender, gender fluid,

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Speaker 1: or gender queer. And gender is also totally separate from

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Speaker 1: romantic or sexual attraction. Those are just three of many

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Speaker 1: varying factors that make up a human being, none of

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Speaker 1: which are strictly binary, as much as we may have

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Speaker 1: been brought up to believe so. Really it's about pushing

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Speaker 1: back on this notion that it's one or the other,

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Speaker 1: and that when your doctor tells you it's a girl

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Speaker 1: or it's a boy, that that means something right that

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Speaker 1: you should be celebrating and investigat right away, because it

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Speaker 1: doesn't allow for your kid to later have real control

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Speaker 1: over how they express their gender. It's just a weird emphasis,

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Speaker 1: that's what it is to me. It's not that it's

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Speaker 1: totally unimportant, because I get it. If you're a parent,

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Speaker 1: you want to know who is coming along to join

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Speaker 1: your family and what can you know? You can know

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Speaker 1: very few things. But it's salience is what I find

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Speaker 1: troubling when we celebrate that, when we make it into

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Speaker 1: such a production we give people permission to project all

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Speaker 1: of these expectations on your onborn child based on gender,

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Speaker 1: not even gender based on sex alone. And so when

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Speaker 1: you're unpacking this quote from Marty, she's talking about gender identity,

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Speaker 1: gender expression, and sexual attraction as being free really kind

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Speaker 1: of important things that your kid's going to figure out

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Speaker 1: and express to you on their own. And maybe that

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Speaker 1: expression could go on to be hampered if your kid

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Speaker 1: grows up in a house where a gender revealed party

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Speaker 1: picture is framed on the mantle from the day they're born. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be really tough. That would be to It

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Speaker 1: would make it tougher. I would say to like, have

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Speaker 1: a trans kid who feels like it's okay to not

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Speaker 1: have the gender identity that matches your sexual organs, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. It gives them permission to define

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Speaker 1: themselves and not to mention the children who are born

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Speaker 1: with intersex traits. According to the United Nations, one point

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Speaker 1: seven percent of children born are born with intersex traits,

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Speaker 1: meaning that their genitalia doesn't fit neatly into a male

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Speaker 1: or female binary. For example, on Gabby Totally, the Belgian

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Speaker 1: supermodel recently revealed she has x Y chromosomes more typically

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Speaker 1: found in men and had internal undescended test ees at birth.

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Speaker 1: That makes her part of the population who is born

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Speaker 1: with intersex traits. And that's all biology, right, We're talking

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Speaker 1: about biology. We're talking about chromosomes. So how does a

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Speaker 1: gender reveal party account for that. It doesn't. It doesn't.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't allow for anything other than one or the other.

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Speaker 1: And so that's the number one most problematic component about

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Speaker 1: gender reveled parties. If you're going to have one, at

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Speaker 1: least call it a sex reveled party. So we're not

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Speaker 1: conflating gender insex. But beyond that, there's another really concerning

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Speaker 1: trend that is not true at every gender reveled party

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Speaker 1: but is very much commonplace if you look at pinter

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Speaker 1: sports about gender reveled parties, and that is that these

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Speaker 1: parties tend to encourage a weirdly intense amount of gender stereotyping.

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Speaker 1: We're talking things like pistols or pearls, toys or tiers,

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Speaker 1: guns or glitter wheels or heels, things that make it

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Speaker 1: clear that, oh, if I have a boy, it's going

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Speaker 1: to like x y z, and if I have a girl,

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Speaker 1: she's going to like x y ze. Only guns or glitter.

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Speaker 1: You can't like both? What if you like both toys

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Speaker 1: and tis? There are a weird array of themes like

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Speaker 1: this online when you Google you know themes for your

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Speaker 1: gender reveil Party, which basically allude to this concept that

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Speaker 1: you can predict the preferences the tastes of your unborn

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Speaker 1: child based on their sex organs alone. So basically, god

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Speaker 1: forbid you should have a girl who likes baseball or

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Speaker 1: throwing a football around, or a little boy who likes

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Speaker 1: dressing up in heels. Yeah, this feels so relevant for me.

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Speaker 1: I was definitely a little girl who didn't necessarily like

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Speaker 1: a lot of girly things. But I grew up in

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Speaker 1: a traditional household where girls liked this and boys like that,

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Speaker 1: and I always just felt very confused by the things

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to like but had no interest in.

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Speaker 1: Did you post an Instagram photo recently? A little bridget

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Speaker 1: tab the tiny sad Dancer was a tiny dancer. I

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Speaker 1: did ballet. I had like ballet in my room even

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Speaker 1: before I could identify it as Bellatian. Like, I was

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Speaker 1: like born into a very specific gender mold that was

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Speaker 1: always confusing. It's confusing now, and it's not picture. I

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Speaker 1: was like, what am I doing here? Just like when

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Speaker 1: I was given a I grew up just outside of

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Speaker 1: Yukon so Go Huskies, but I was given a Yukon

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Speaker 1: Huskies cheerleader uniform by my dad, who was very proud

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Speaker 1: of this purchase for Halloween one year. And I was

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Speaker 1: there's a photo of me like this with my hands

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Speaker 1: up holding pom poms, Like, really, this is what I

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Speaker 1: have to be for Halloween this year? This is so lame.

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Speaker 1: And you had a similar look at that adorable Instagram

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Speaker 1: bridget the sad tiny dance, sad, serious, solemn, tiny dancer

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Speaker 1: Dressica Princess. It wasn't my vibe, right, And so there's

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Speaker 1: this great article from USA Today that really points to

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Speaker 1: some research out of the University of California, Santa Cruz

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Speaker 1: that at activities that formally mark gender, like gender reveal parties,

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Speaker 1: increase the likelihood of gender stereotyping. There was research done

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Speaker 1: by Rebecca Bigler, a psychologist at the University of Texas.

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Speaker 1: She had school children wear red and blue T shirts

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Speaker 1: and had teachers referenced the colors as they might gender,

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Speaker 1: So good morning reds and blues, and really identify the

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Speaker 1: children based on the color T shirt that they wore.

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Speaker 1: Over time, the study found that kids developed biases preferring

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Speaker 1: their own colors, just as they did with gender. Quote,

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Speaker 1: when you put things in a category, we naturally want

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Speaker 1: to make meaning of that category, said leaper, girl and boy.

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Speaker 1: If those categories exist, there must be reasons for that,

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Speaker 1: and we start to think about them differently. Well, this

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Speaker 1: reminds me so much of my experience, and I was

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Speaker 1: teaching in the classroom setting. They actually trained us to

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Speaker 1: use terms when addressing the class that we're not gendered.

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Speaker 1: And so if I'm ever even now that hasn't taught

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Speaker 1: in years, but even now, when I'm referencing a large

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Speaker 1: group of people who are mixed gender, I'll say things

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Speaker 1: like good morning friends, or hello comrades, things like that.

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Speaker 1: That because it doesn't you say girls and boys or

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen and you're in you're in the classroom,

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Speaker 1: changes the dynamic of a classroom. And I've seen it

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Speaker 1: total abst true. And it also makes me think, you know,

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Speaker 1: all those gender reveal I don't know if they're parties

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Speaker 1: or celebrations or online videos or whatever that have another

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Speaker 1: child present. So let's say mom and dad are revealing

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Speaker 1: the gender of your unborn brother or sister. The little

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Speaker 1: girls are always wanting a girl and the little boys

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Speaker 1: are always wanting a boy. And they I've seen videos

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Speaker 1: where like the little girl weeps and cries and goes

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Speaker 1: into hysterics when she finds out it's going to be

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Speaker 1: a boy, and vice versa. And so this is like

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Speaker 1: this weird. Uh. It's like before the child is even born,

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Speaker 1: you're drawing a line between their brother and them, or

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Speaker 1: their sister and them, and you know what, it just

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Speaker 1: seems like not exactly a bridge to a relationship. And

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Speaker 1: to me, I just it just feels unnecessary. I think

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Speaker 1: there are ways of celebrating the bringing of a new

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Speaker 1: child into a family that mark information that you find

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Speaker 1: out about it that this kid that don't kind of

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Speaker 1: stoke these weird gender divisions before these kids have even met.

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Speaker 1: It's weird. It's just a weird emphasis. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: it's not that you're having a party about your own

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Speaker 1: born kid. That's fine, baby showers, fine, whatever, But it's

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Speaker 1: this emphasis on gender does nothing more than give everybody

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Speaker 1: a permission slip to stereotype and not to mention. The

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Speaker 1: USA today article goes on to say, quote, you know

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Speaker 1: what toys to buy, how to decorate the room, what

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Speaker 1: clothes you get, as opposed to buying different things and

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Speaker 1: seeing what the child likes. A girl gets a doll,

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Speaker 1: a boy gets a baseball. That takes the guessing out

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00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: of it. So basically, even having expectations as a parent

431
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: can set you up to have Balarie the slippers in

432
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: your little girl's room before she even knows what they are, right,

433
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: And not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it

434
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: is a limiting factor if you're already making assumptions for

435
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: your unborn child as to what toys are gonna like,

436
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: so what interest they're going to have, And those gender

437
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: norms can have lifelong ramifications. Those stereotypes can get instituted

438
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: from day one, no earlier, from like in utero, before

439
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: the child's even born. And I think it doesn't leave

440
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: room for kids to figure the stuff out for themselves.

441
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: And if you grow up thinking that my mom wants

442
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: me to be a ballerina and you don't really have

443
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: an interest in being a battering your princess, you you're

444
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: you might feel some pressure to do something that you

445
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: don't really want to do because you feel like you

446
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: have to. And I think that we should be giving

447
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 1: kids the space to figure out who they are. And

448
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: we have so much time for society to put crap

449
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: on them, and it seems like a lot to start

450
00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: them out handing them more gender expectations. Yes, Laura Tropp

451
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: ends her Smithsonian piece perfectly by saying, a ritual that

452
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 1: sexes and genders a person before they are born places

453
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: limits rather than offers possibilities on who they may become.

454
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,479
Speaker 1: And I think you're totally right. The final big issue

455
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: that I have with gender revealed parties is actually directly

456
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: related to one of its purported benefits. So one of

457
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: the supposed benefits of this ritual that we've developed in

458
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: the age of social media is that it's egalitarian, right,

459
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: it's democratic, everybody gets to find out at the same time.

460
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: But with everybody finding out at the same time comes

461
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: this new form of observation, which is, what is the

462
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: reaction of mom and dad? Is dad disappointed that he's

463
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: having a girl? What does that mean? You know? Is

464
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: the toddler sibling crying hysterically because it's a boy? What

465
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 1: does that mean? And honestly, why would you do that

466
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: to yourself, hope for your family, because now it becomes

467
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: a meta performance. It's not just the performance of finding out,

468
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: it's the performance of finding out and looking right with

469
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: your reaction. I can't even imagine the pressure, But I

470
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: had never heard of people having a disappointed reaction about

471
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: having a girl or a boy, But it makes perfect sense.

472
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: I can imagine setting up one of these parties, not

473
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: realizing how invested you maybe are, and having a girl

474
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: or a boy, thinking it's going to be this cute thing,

475
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: cutting the cake and seeing blue when you wanted pink,

476
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: or pink when you wanted blue, and being blindsided by disappointment,

477
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: and thinking I have to pretend to be at the

478
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: fake it. I have to pretend to be happy, otherwise

479
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look like a bad mom. Before my kids

480
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: even born, I could see I'm the kind of person

481
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: who I could see myself doing all these things and

482
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: thinking you will be fine, and then in the moment

483
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: being like, oh wait, actually I have feelings, but everyone's

484
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: looking at me, so I'm just gonna smile, but really

485
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: I feel weird. Yeah, it's like you you might be

486
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: surprised by your reaction in and you really never know

487
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: how you're going to react to such big news. What

488
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: if you're disappointed or nervous, service hits you in a

489
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: way that you didn't expect. That's that's the fear of

490
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,959
Speaker 1: like having those fields and those feels not being socially

491
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: acceptable and peaches and cream and perfectly happy all the time.

492
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: And beyond that, some of the adults who come to

493
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: gender reveal parties are kind of encouraged cheer on team

494
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: Blue or team Pink. Now, this again is not at

495
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: every party, and we I mean we haven't men to

496
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: that many of them ourselves, but oftentimes guests are asked

497
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: to come wearing their guests, but their guests of what

498
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 1: the baby is, Team blue or team Pink can quickly

499
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: turn into their vote or their cheer, you know, their hope.

500
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: As this article in the Halfon Post goes on to say, ultimately,

501
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: team Pink and Team Blue are pitted against one another,

502
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: sometimes for prizes once the big gender reveal happens. Beyond that,

503
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: these announcements like that it's a girl announcement can some

504
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: being met with these stupid, annoying sexist reactions from your

505
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: party guests, like bridget, you're having a girl. That's payback

506
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: for how terrible a teenager you were, or you know,

507
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: get out the shotgun, dad, because you're having a girl.

508
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: You have to protect your unborn daughter's body because that's

509
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: your job, even before she's born. Basically, these weird reactions

510
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: that either you have or your party guests have are

511
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: just another wrinkle to the gender stereotyping and the downside

512
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: quite frankly, to having a gender real party. Yeah. I mean,

513
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: first of all, the shotgun thing is its own gross

514
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: thing that I wish would go away in our culture

515
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: for good. But also I mean I want to push

516
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: back on that slightly and that I have a friend

517
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: who has nothing but sons, and it's wanted a daughter.

518
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: And when he found out he was like a daughter,

519
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: it was clearly like a big thing for him. But

520
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: my thing is like, it doesn't have to turn into

521
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: this gross, t liable thing with teams trying to show like, oh,

522
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: I hope it's a boy. I hope it's a boy.

523
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: I hope it's a girl. Hope it's a girl. It's

524
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: okay to want a you know, a daughter that's what

525
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: you want, or a son that that's what you like.

526
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: That's fine, but it doesn't have to turn into this gross,

527
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: weird thing with people competing for quote unquote what they

528
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: want and attaching it to all these gross gender tropes. Yeah,

529
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: it always makes you feel like, whose right is it

530
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: to want a baby boy or a baby girl? You

531
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, don't we want a healthy

532
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: baby above all else when it comes to everything. And

533
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: that's what I remember. It just came back to me

534
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: just this moment. But when I was ten and eleven,

535
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: my mom had two more kids, my baby brother and sister,

536
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: and she used to get that question all the time,

537
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: is it a boy or a girl? And she said,

538
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: you know, I just hope it's a healthy baby. That's

539
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: all I hope for. And she ended up with weirdly

540
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: symmetrical pairing of two boys and two girls one year apart,

541
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: each in a decade in between the two pairs, which

542
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: is weird in its own right. But this idea that

543
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: it's okay for ever to ask and or project their

544
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: desires onto your unborn child is perpetuated and or maybe

545
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: encouraged a little bit when we have parties that center

546
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: on the gender of your on more child. I also

547
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: just feel like I want to speak for the pregnant

548
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: people out there. I think that people should just back

549
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: off a little bit, Like I think that like pregnant people,

550
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: people who are pregnant people touch your stomach without asking

551
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: Strangers ask questions they would you would never ask. I

552
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: almost wondered if these parties help create a climate where

553
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: it's everybody's business what's going on inside a pregnant person's womb. Yes,

554
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: I think that's a really great point. Hashtag back off,

555
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 1: I'm cooking a baby. Yeah, it's none of your business.

556
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: Like I'm busy here, I'm busy unless you're getting up

557
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,959
Speaker 1: out of the seat on the metro or the subway

558
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: to let me sit down. Don't talk to me exactly exactly.

559
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: Somebody has to put that on a T shirt for

560
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: pregnant people out there. I know we will be the

561
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: first to buy them for all our pregnant friends. Yeah,

562
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: not to mention if you're the aren't themselves who has

563
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: a negative reaction at your own gender revealed party? The

564
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: judgment that can come from that is just unbelievable, kind

565
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: of like all the judgment that pregnant women get probably

566
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: every day. And we're going to talk about what that

567
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: feels like, what that phenomenon is it's known as gender disappointment.

568
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: In just a quick moment after this word from our sponsors,

569
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: and we're back and bridget just like you. Before doing

570
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: research for this episode, I had never heard the term

571
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: gender disappointment. But just like postpartum depression, which so many

572
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: women suffer through in silence and in isolation after giving birth,

573
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: gender disappointment is one of those unspoken phenomenons that many

574
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: women who are pregnant can experience that instantly makes them

575
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: feel like a bad mom. So I have to read

576
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: these couple of paragraphs from this great piece by so

577
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: Lady Win on Romper dot com. Here's how she opens

578
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: her story. She says, it's a girl. The snographer said.

579
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: I can still remember the excitement I felt as I

580
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 1: lay on the bed with goog all over my just

581
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: about to pop pregnant belly at my twenty week ultrasound.

582
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: My partner and I held hands and I stared up

583
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: expectantly at the screen, waiting to hear what our baby

584
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: was going to be. But when the pornographer said those

585
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: three words, my brain glitched. Really, I asked, my voice

586
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: too high, too loud, injected with false enthusiasm, I looked

587
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: to my partner to see what he thought. Like always,

588
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: I couldn't quite read his reaction. I had been positive

589
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: one sure, there had been no doubt in my mind

590
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: that I was having a baby boy. But there, in

591
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: black and white was the proof that I was not.

592
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,239
Speaker 1: I had gender disappointment, and as the feeling settled over me,

593
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: it left me feeling so many emotions, ashamed and confused,

594
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: but mostly terrified. As we drove home from our ultrasound,

595
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: I continue to put up a happy front. We called

596
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: my parents from the car and told him the exciting news,

597
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: and I wondered aloud to my partner at all the

598
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: things I could do with our daughter. But in my

599
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: head and in my heart, all I could feel was

600
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: a horrible shame, shame that I was disappointed with my

601
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: child for something she had no control over. I wondered

602
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: what kind of mother could be disappointed in their child's gender,

603
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: and the only answer I could come up with was

604
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: a bad one. That is heartbreaking. And even though I

605
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: had never heard of gender disappointment before, it does make

606
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: sense when you get very invested in the idea of

607
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: having you know, a boy or girl or whatever, it

608
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: does make sense and having a kid. I imagine it's

609
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: very emotional. You're gonna have intense feelings, feelings that maybe

610
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: you don't expect to have exactly, and you're making expectations

611
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 1: about the life of your child. Right, it makes sense

612
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 1: in our world today and maybe forever to feel a

613
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: sense of fear over your child, and especially over bringing

614
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: a little girl into this world. Right, this is not

615
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: an easy place. This is not a fair, just world

616
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: where girls are treated the same as boys, where women

617
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: are treated the same as men, And to feel fear

618
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: for that or disappointment in that make some logical sense. Right.

619
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: Your emotional response is not in your control, and so

620
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: I think it's important that it be okay for us

621
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: to have these conversations and for you to have that

622
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: moment as a parent, to reconcile your expectations with your

623
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: actual emotional response. And I don't want to have that

624
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: moment with all of my friends and families present, cheering

625
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: on team Pink versus Team Blue, and having like a

626
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: professional photographer there to capture your fake smile if in

627
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: fact this moment does turn out to be a heavier

628
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: one than you or maybe expecting. Yeah, And I feel

629
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: like it's natural for us to have this investment in

630
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: this idea of our future child's life. You know, I

631
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: really want a kid who's going to be a rock

632
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: star athlete, or I really want a kid who's gonna

633
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: I can take to dance lessons. You know what I

634
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: mean to live through and relive some of your own childhood.

635
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: Makes sense, But then when we conflate gender with those hobbies,

636
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: it becomes a weird sense of disappointment before the kid

637
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: even has a chance to disappoint you. Totally thinking about

638
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: my own mom. My mom was very poor when she

639
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: got married, so she never got a chance to have,

640
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: you know, a real dream wedding. She just didn't have

641
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: a wedding. And she was like, oh, I wanted to

642
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: have I was so excited to have a girl so

643
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: that I could plan the wedding I never had. And

644
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: I get that. I think that's how are you doing

645
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: living up to her expectations? Not great? She's uh, she

646
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: does send me some bridal magazines from time to time.

647
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: She's my mom. It's she's the sweetest, but like she

648
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 1: badly wants all of her children to be like married

649
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 1: and happy, and we kids whose weddings that she will

650
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: also be planning somehow, But yeah, I get it. I

651
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: get you know I I for a while was very

652
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: invested in the idea of having a boy and raising

653
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: him to be this kick ass ally and feminist she

654
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: respects women and is surrounded by strong, assertive women who

655
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: goes on to be the kind of guys that you

656
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: hope all guys will be. Right. I wanted to raise

657
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: that guy to be the guy who like gives his

658
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: buddies crap when they say sexist things, and I wanted

659
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: to I was really really invested in that idea. Part

660
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: of me is like, oh, that's natural. It's natural to

661
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: think about what your kid's life is going to look like.

662
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: But you sort of don't realize how that can saddle

663
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: a kid with expectations before they're even born, right exactly.

664
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: And I think at the end of the day, you

665
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: don't know what your reaction is going to be until

666
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: they say it's a girl or it's a boy, or

667
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: until the moment of birth. If you choose to wait

668
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: for the information, By the way, would you choose to

669
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,479
Speaker 1: wait or would you find out? I would choose to wait, same, Yeah,

670
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: why that wait? You would choose to wait? Yeah? That

671
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: is not at all what y'all if y'all know Emily.

672
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: Emily is a planner. Emily likes details. Emily likes to

673
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: like data, checks data. Emily is the kind of person

674
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: who if you're like, let's get a drink, she likes

675
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: to know where we're gonna go. She's already looked at

676
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: the menu. She was what she wants to send your

677
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: Google calendar. That's kind of girl, Emily. That surprises you

678
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: on gender, it surprises me. I would think that you

679
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: would want to if you were having a kid, you

680
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: would want to know, Okay, it's gonna be you girl,

681
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a birth plan. Yeah, you were gonna

682
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,959
Speaker 1: I would not think that you would have everything planned out,

683
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 1: you would know the gender because you're gonna start looking

684
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: at schools like you're already Like, I would imagine that

685
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: you would have everything planning. I think a little bit

686
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: of surprise, good old fashioned surprise, can go a long way,

687
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: because sometimes too much information is real Like, basically, I

688
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: don't want any information that forces me to stress out unnecessarily,

689
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: and that's what gender information I think would do for me.

690
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: That's interesting, And this sounds a little bit dumb, maybe

691
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: but I know I talked earlier in the show about

692
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: my aunties who like to rub pregn like our pregnant

693
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: family members bellies and say like, oh, it feels like this,

694
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: it's a boy. It feels like I kind of want that.

695
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: I want, I want. I want a little of that. Yeah,

696
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: I think a little of that is is good. I'm

697
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: I'm someone who likes surprises. I like things that are impulsive.

698
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: I like things to not be super planned. And I

699
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: like the idea of my great aunt rubbing her hand

700
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: on my tummy and saying she thinks someone have a

701
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: girl because of some crazy book that's not really a

702
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: real I want that. Yeah, there is something old school

703
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: in a great way about that. I think. Yeah, it

704
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 1: definitely brings back some like is it like spiritual predictions

705
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: or some like some of the fun of pregnancy before

706
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: it got super medical. Although thank you medicine, right, because

707
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: that stuff keeps us alive too. But I think that's

708
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: the thing, and I keep underscoring this is that I

709
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: don't think that these kinds of celebrations are wrong inherently,

710
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 1: because I do think things that remind us that hard

711
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 1: birth is fun or can be cute, or can be

712
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: something that you make a a that's important for your

713
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: chosen community or your family or whatever things that mark

714
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: that I think are good, which is where I've come

715
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: a long way on marriage. By the way, it's a

716
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: communal celebration of what is important to you, and for me,

717
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: I don't think gender should be on that list. I agree.

718
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: I think we're celebrating what's important to us when we

719
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 1: have parties and when we have traditions like this. If

720
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: you are making gender this salient, this significant, you might

721
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: actually be setting your kid up for stress and disappointment,

722
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 1: and you might be setting yourself up for stress and disappointment.

723
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: So if you're gonna have one of these reveal events,

724
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: how can folks do that in a way that's not

725
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 1: so problematic? Well, I think at the end of the day, one,

726
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: let's not read so much into sex and what that

727
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: means about our unborn humans. How about that, Let's say

728
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: it's a girl, it's a boy referring to sex organs.

729
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: Let's call it what it is like. Even though I'm

730
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: here for the sex cake wins out as compared to

731
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: the pistols or pearls cake in my book, because at

732
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: least you're talking about what you're talking about, which is

733
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: the baby's sex organs, and then maybe let's ease up

734
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: on the over the top gender stereotypes that come along

735
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: with a lot of these parties. So if you're going

736
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: to have one of them, maybe we don't say, oh,

737
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 1: are you going to be going to football games or

738
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: dance recitals for life? Because guess what you don't know? Yeah,

739
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: something about that. There's this comedian that I'm obsessed with

740
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: when I follow on Twitter. He has a baby that

741
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: is the most adorable baby you'll ever see in your life.

742
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: He is adorable. There's a hashtag woke baby if you

743
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: ever want to see him on Twitter. Um. But I

744
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: once tweeted at him. I accidentally miss gendered his baby.

745
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: I said, Oh, your baby is so cute, she's adorable,

746
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: and he tweeted back at me, Oh, it's actually a

747
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: boy parentheses as far as I know. And I loved

748
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: that so much. I thought that was such a cool

749
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 1: handling it, where it's like, yeah, my my baby's gender

750
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 1: is important to me, so I want to make sure

751
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: that you have it correct. But I want to underscore that,

752
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: like I don't actually really know the situation because it's

753
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: a baby, and it will in due time, you know,

754
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: they will be able to express their own gender identity exactly.

755
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 1: And that's the other thing I want all of our

756
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: parents listening, and all of our maybe someday parents like

757
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 1: ourselves listening to think about which is your kids genders

758
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: up to them. It's not up to their doctor. It's

759
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 1: not up to somebody taking a peek between their legs

760
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: and deciding which binary category to put them in. UM

761
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: And instead of over emphasizing the importance of that determination,

762
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: maybe we celebrate life and birth and health instead of

763
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: anyone characteristic And just so you know, if you're listening

764
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: and you've experienced symptoms of what we've called gender disappointment,

765
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: just know it's okay. It happened. And I think the

766
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: most important thing is to know you're not alone. It

767
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: doesn't make you a bad parent, and that you should

768
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 1: talk about it. Don't keep it inside, don't plaster a

769
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: fake smile on your face, don't engineer situations where you

770
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: would have to fake smile through what I'm comfortable situation

771
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: in public to begin with, It's okay, yes, And you

772
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: have to be able to talk through those emotions with

773
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: someone you trust and get more support if you need it,

774
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: especially right after birth, when an estimated fifty to seventy

775
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 1: of new mothers suffer from what's called the baby blues

776
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: in the days after childbirth. And then, of course there

777
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 1: are the more intense feelings, not just the baby blues,

778
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: but things like anger and resentment towards your child, thoughts

779
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: of hurting yourself or your child, insomnia, fear of losing

780
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: control or losing your mind, or uncontrollable crying, all of

781
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: which can be a sign of postpartum depression, a less

782
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: common but still very serious condition that affects ten to

783
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: twenty of women. So if you're feeling that way, you're

784
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: not alone. But it's important not to suff for silently,

785
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: because if we suffer silently, one, we don't give ourselves

786
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: a chance to feel better, and to you don't know

787
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: who out there is also suffering. And if you make

788
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: it seem like, oh, mom's got it all under control,

789
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: everything is fine, everything is good, you're not contributing to

790
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 1: a community where it's okay to talk about these things. Yes,

791
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: so true, and know that it's pretty curable, right like,

792
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: with proper treatment and support, this is a very recoverable

793
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: situation you find yourself in. So don't let the fear

794
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: of being a bad mom prevent you from getting the

795
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,879
Speaker 1: help you need. Because you're not a bad mom. There's

796
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 1: a human Yeah, now listen. I know it sounds like

797
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: this might be PC culture run amuck. You know that's

798
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: my favorite phrase, your favorite, and that we're not trying

799
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: to just come down on social media trend because we're

800
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: overly politically correct. It's not that these parties tend to

801
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 1: be tacky or that they can often be a little

802
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 1: bit weird as a participate. It at one of these

803
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: parties to be celebrating the sex organs of someone's unborn child.

804
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: It really is about the bigger ramifications. So we're not

805
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 1: here to tell you how to have your baby. We're

806
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: not here to tell you how to celebrate your pregnancy.

807
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: I just hope that all of us, as parents or

808
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: maybe someday parents, can be mindful about how gender revealed

809
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: parties actually say more about us than it says anything

810
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: about the life of your future child. To add on

811
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: to that, I think we should be mindful of what

812
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 1: they say about us and what they're putting on these kids.

813
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: I think that really comes down to them and how

814
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: they're faring. So, if you're someone who is into gender

815
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: revealed parties, just be critical and be willing to self

816
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: reflect on what they say about our culture and what

817
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: that means and what the significance of your unborn child's

818
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: gender is to you or what that means to you. Yeah, well,

819
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you listeners. I would love,

820
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: love love to hear some of those very inventive gender

821
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: or or I guess we were calling it sex reveal parties.

822
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: Now have you dyed your hair? Did it involve bloody

823
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 1: goldberg coming out of a crystal ball? What did it

824
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,439
Speaker 1: look like? Yeah? And if you've always had a little

825
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 1: bit of discomfort over this concept of gender revealed parties,

826
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: did today's episode make sense as to why? We'd love

827
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: to hear what you think, especially from my mom listeners

828
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: out there, especially from our parents listeners out there, um

829
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: who have already navigated this kind of a choice moment

830
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 1: in their life. What what what did we miss? What

831
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: would you consider? What do you think a salient about this?

832
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: We can't wait to hear what you think, So get

833
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: in the conversation with us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast.

834
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: Find us in the comments section of our Instagram and

835
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You And as always we love

836
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: to get your listener mail at mom Stuff, how stuff

837
00:46:49,880 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: works dot com. On the Road