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Speaker 1: Cancer Straight Talk is a podcast for memorial Sloan Kettering

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Speaker 1: Cancer Center where hosts doctor Diane Reedy Lagunas has intimate

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Speaker 1: conversations with patients and experts about topics like dating and sex,

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Speaker 1: exercise and diet, the power of gratitude, and more. I

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Speaker 1: love being her guest back in April. Listen to Cancer

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Speaker 1: Straight Talk. You'll learn so much. Hi everyone, I'm Kitty

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Speaker 1: Kuric and this is next question. Melissa Ethridge has written

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Speaker 1: not one, but two memoirs, and her new one is

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Speaker 1: called Talking to My Angels and Wow, so much has

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Speaker 1: happened between forty when she wrote her first one and

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Speaker 1: sixty plus two. She talked with me about a definitive

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Speaker 1: spiritual experience thanks to what she calls a hero dose

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Speaker 1: of cannabis. Wow sounds intense. That really separated her life

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Speaker 1: into before and after. Now on the other side, Melissa

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Speaker 1: finds herself happier and I think, more centered than ever,

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Speaker 1: and she'll walk us through how she found that piece.

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Speaker 1: But she also has an amazing capacity to learn from

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Speaker 1: the not so peaceful events in her life. And of

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Speaker 1: course music is the thrumbing through line underpinning everything in

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Speaker 1: her life. So there's a little of that in this

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Speaker 1: interview as well. Hope you all enjoy my conversation with

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Speaker 1: Melissa Ethriche. Melissa, Gosh, we have so much to talk

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Speaker 1: about because you have so much going on, But one

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Speaker 1: of the main reasons you're here is to talk about

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Speaker 1: your new memoir, which is your second memoir. How can

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Speaker 1: you possibly write too.

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Speaker 2: Well when you write one at the age of forty.

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Speaker 2: At forty, you think, oh my gosh, I've lived so

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Speaker 2: much life. But then when you turn sixty, you're like,

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Speaker 2: I was just getting started, you know, because so much

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Speaker 2: happens from in my life. So much happened from forty

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Speaker 2: to sixty that really makes up so much more of

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Speaker 2: what I am now. And you know, the first part

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Speaker 2: was just kind of the history, you know, the growing

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Speaker 2: up and how did I, you know, make it and

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing, and this one is how did

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Speaker 2: I survive? You know?

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Speaker 1: In fact, I know that your first memoir was called

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Speaker 1: The Truth Is, and that was, as you mentioned, released

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and one, so twenty two years ago.

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Speaker 1: And you say you've come around to a different kind

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Speaker 1: of understanding in the second part of life. So let's

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Speaker 1: start there, specifically with what happened to you one summer

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Speaker 1: night back in two thousand and three, You say that

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Speaker 1: you had an experience that jump started I guess the

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Speaker 1: spiritual awakening for you. So what happened, Melissa? Is everything

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Speaker 1: sort of in your life before this and after it?

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Speaker 1: Do you use it to delen ate your life in

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Speaker 1: some ways?

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Speaker 2: Yes? And because it was so close to my cancer diagnosis,

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Speaker 2: both of those things, one right after the other, is

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Speaker 2: what really divides my early life and then the rest

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Speaker 2: of my life. And now now that again, now that

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Speaker 2: I'm in my sixties, I think that all of us

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Speaker 2: sort of have a spirit awakening, you know, they're they're

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Speaker 2: a soul awakening. And all of us that I think

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Speaker 2: up to, you know, up till your forties, you're you know,

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Speaker 2: working and trying to make it, and you're physically, you know,

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Speaker 2: action oriented. And then you complete some journeys, you actually

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Speaker 2: get some places and you start realizing, wait, it's not

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Speaker 2: really about the thing or the the place. It's about

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Speaker 2: the feeling and it's all the all the interesting things

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Speaker 2: that happened to me along the way. It's the journey.

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Speaker 2: And so how I lived my life, how I thought

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Speaker 2: of my life really changed and my awakening came through

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Speaker 2: plant spirit and it doesn't doesn't or plant medicine, and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't. You know, it's different for everyone. This that's

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Speaker 2: not the only way. There's all kinds of ways people

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Speaker 2: can can have an awakening in their life. And mind

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Speaker 2: just happened to be through an unintentional heroic dose of cannabis,

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Speaker 2: and it was it was, you know, mind shattering to me.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it really kind of set you off on

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Speaker 1: this kind of psychedelic journey, if you will. You say,

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Speaker 1: I then received a kind of download of information and

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Speaker 1: the arrival of a new understanding. And that understanding, well,

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Speaker 1: you tell me what was that understanding?

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Speaker 2: A lot of people talk about how it feels like

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Speaker 2: a download of information. It feels it's it's very uh.

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Speaker 2: That's a common description of a moment. Sometimes it happens

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Speaker 2: when a near death experience or or something will sort

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Speaker 2: of put this off. But the understanding is it's so

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Speaker 2: it's so hard to describe because it's I tell people

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Speaker 2: it cannot be taught, it can only be learned. And

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Speaker 2: you know, words don't teach, but I'll do my best.

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Speaker 2: Sound it, Okay, it is it's an understanding of a

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Speaker 2: of a certain oneness of humanity, of a of a

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Speaker 2: common a commonality between everyone, where uh, you know, you

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Speaker 2: can say we I mean, I could say it's it's

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Speaker 2: all love, and that's a really simple thing to say,

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Speaker 2: but to me, that is the truth. It's all everything

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Speaker 2: is love, and everything is made up of love, and

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Speaker 2: love is what I described the the particles. You can

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Speaker 2: you can go into a quantum physics and they're saying

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Speaker 2: the same thing. They're just saying it scientifically. I'm saying

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Speaker 2: it from a more spiritual, sort of esoteric way. Everyone's

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Speaker 2: made up of the same particles and how they're put

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Speaker 2: together is up to us in our minds. Our minds

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Speaker 2: are so much more powerful than we know, and you

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Speaker 2: can find it. There's a lot of teachings, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of modern day teaching, so this and

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Speaker 2: a lot of uh, you know, ancient teachings that sort

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Speaker 2: of speak to the very same thing.

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Speaker 1: How did it change you, Melissa? I mean, if it's

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Speaker 1: all about love and we're all kind of connected and

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Speaker 1: particles and all the things you just described change, did

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Speaker 1: it change you as a person? Did it make you

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Speaker 1: relate to other people differently? Did it make you less angry.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how does that manifest itself in daily behavior?

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Speaker 1: And can I get me some of that cannabis?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, well new York it's legal now. So although

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Speaker 2: California makes the best lead, but it changed me and

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Speaker 2: my relationship to me. And that's the That's the first

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Speaker 2: and really most important relationship is how I'm what I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking about me, how I'm connect to me, meaning that

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Speaker 2: inner being that we have, that that that thing that

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Speaker 2: we say is either you know, critiquing us or or

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Speaker 2: you know, all those things in our mind that we

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Speaker 2: walk with every day. That relationship changes. You stop blaming

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Speaker 2: things outside of you, when you no longer take the

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Speaker 2: manifested world personally, when you don't think something or someone's

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Speaker 2: after you, when you realize, oh, I'm I'm creating this

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Speaker 2: myself every day, and I have a choice how I'm

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Speaker 2: going to respond to it. Am I just going somebody

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Speaker 2: pushes me, Am I just going to push back and

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Speaker 2: then you create that energy. Or if someone pushes me,

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Speaker 2: am I going to see it more through an eye

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Speaker 2: of love and go, Wow, that person must really be

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Speaker 2: having a bad day. And I, you know, I'm really

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Speaker 2: grateful that I'm not having a bad day and I'm grateful,

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Speaker 2: and you just sort of channel your thought into more appreciation,

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Speaker 2: more gratitude. You know, you hear these things all the time.

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Speaker 2: You know they're all la la, but the truthful, truthfully,

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Speaker 2: if you practice these things on a real practical level,

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Speaker 2: they can make a real, big, large difference in your life.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever slip up? Do you ever want to

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Speaker 1: push that person back? I mean, I'm fascinated by this.

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Speaker 1: How do you discipline yourself or how do you get

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Speaker 1: yourself in the mindset every day that I am going

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Speaker 1: to see things through a prism of love. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to try to seek understanding and I'm not gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to have this short fuse or I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna take ill of people, all the things that bring

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Speaker 1: out the worst in us.

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Speaker 2: Well, first I realized it's an understanding. That this is

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Speaker 2: not sort of like a college degree where you get

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Speaker 2: there and you're there that you know and you have

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Speaker 2: it forever and ever. This it's a practice. It's like yoga.

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Speaker 2: It's like, you know, you start yoga, you can barely

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Speaker 2: bend over, and then after a while you can bend.

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Speaker 2: But there's no end to yoga. There's nobody that finishes

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Speaker 2: yoga and I've done it, and that's it. Now I'm

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Speaker 2: yogi or something that that that you It's just a

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Speaker 2: practice you do every day and this is the same thing.

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Speaker 2: And there are little little things that you can do

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Speaker 2: that helps you because by the time you get something

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Speaker 2: from someone in the outside world, the momentum that you've

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Speaker 2: had going during the day is one of oh, this

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Speaker 2: is a bad day, I'm having a bad Oh you know,

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Speaker 2: Oh I stubbed my toe. Oh now it's you know,

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Speaker 2: and things grow. That momentum grows, and if somebody pushes you,

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Speaker 2: you bet I'm going to shove them back at that

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Speaker 2: point because I've let it grow. You you go back

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Speaker 2: to the your beginning of your day and the very

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Speaker 2: moment you wake up. If you can just find something

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Speaker 2: in that moment to be grateful for, for just you know,

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Speaker 2: just a half a minute, then that can grow a

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Speaker 2: little bit more and you might you might get ten, fifteen,

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes before you read an email and it sends

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Speaker 2: you back into a bad place. But the more well

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Speaker 2: you've heard the you know, the better it gets. The

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Speaker 2: better it gets because it's it's it is a it's

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Speaker 2: it's I'm sure you've also heard of the law of attraction.

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Speaker 2: This is sort of what it's. This is on is

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Speaker 2: you get what you're going to put out, So it's

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Speaker 2: up to you. I realize I can't change anyone or anything,

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Speaker 2: and once you give that up, then you're just working

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Speaker 2: on yourself. Going all I can do is work on

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Speaker 2: the way I feel, and I can be pointed towards happiness.

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Speaker 2: So it's just it's just a practice every day, and

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Speaker 2: you don't. Yeah, there are times I had a horrible

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Speaker 2: day yesterday my show last night. I'm glad you weren't there.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't it wasn't horrible, but for me it was.

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Speaker 2: You know, ah, this happened, I said, the drums fell over,

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Speaker 2: this sort of thing. You know, it's just that kind

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Speaker 2: of day. I was having that day. Today I'm not,

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Speaker 2: I'm speaking to you. I'm having a much better day.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be a great show tonight.

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Speaker 1: Well, it seems like you let things roll off your

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Speaker 1: back too a lot more, and you don't let things

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Speaker 1: fester and you kind of release them out into the

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Speaker 1: universe because it doesn't help to hold it in. Right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a great book Don Miguel Rui's a lot

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Speaker 2: of people know this book. The four agreements and the

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Speaker 2: real simple You don't take things personally. You don't assume.

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Speaker 2: You do the best you can, and you are impeccable

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Speaker 2: with your word. And those four things go very deeply.

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Speaker 2: If you read the book and see it's a very

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Speaker 2: short book and it's really just amazing, and you just

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Speaker 2: the less you take personally in the world or assume.

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Speaker 2: I used to always assume I knew what everyone was thinking,

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Speaker 2: and I was going to make everything in the room

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Speaker 2: okay before I got there, before anybody else could say anything.

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Speaker 2: You really have to let that go. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of wasted energy.

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Speaker 1: I'd interviewed Jada Pinkett Smith. She wrote a memo more

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Speaker 1: called Worthy, and she talks about a similar spiritual awakening,

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Speaker 1: which was interesting, and you both write about your experiences

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Speaker 1: with ayahuasca, and I'm curious what that journey was like

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Speaker 1: for you. I do know friends who have done this.

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Speaker 1: I'm afraid to do something like that, like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: first of all, do you have to do it in

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Speaker 1: those really hot tents and everything.

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Speaker 2: New? I actually did it in my home, so.

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Speaker 1: Okay, because a lot of people, you know, what do

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Speaker 1: they do that in those sweat lodges And that just

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Speaker 1: sounds that sounds miserable to me.

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Speaker 2: And no, no, first off, to really sort of listen

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Speaker 2: to yourself. And there's people that are like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: give me that you know, and we'll go and do it.

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Speaker 2: And there's people I've met many people have come up

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Speaker 2: and go and set the exact thing. I'm just afraid

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Speaker 2: because it is it is a very different experience. And

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Speaker 2: I would not advise someone to just, oh, just go

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Speaker 2: to ayahuasca because it's gonna rock your world. It's it

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Speaker 2: is not something to do recreationally. It's not fun if

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Speaker 2: you are in a place. And like I said, this

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Speaker 2: is not for everyone. This is some people come to there.

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Speaker 2: It just just go through life very easily. And I

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Speaker 2: mean we have things that happen, we lose people, and

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Speaker 2: you understand, life is full of loss and and everything,

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Speaker 2: and it's I would suggest it for anyone who's who

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Speaker 2: is having a very hard time, like it's very good

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Speaker 2: for drug abuse, it's very good for people who are

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Speaker 2: having hard time letting go of grief or something. If

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Speaker 2: you're really searching, this is a great answer and you know,

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Speaker 2: it suits people and some people it doesn't. Myself, I

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Speaker 2: was searching, I was looking. I was I had already

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Speaker 2: had this unintentional, huge journey, and I wasn't as afraid

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Speaker 2: of it anymore. It does help help people. It helped

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Speaker 2: me get over my sense of fear of death, and

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Speaker 2: sometimes the fear of death can really rule a person's life.

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Speaker 2: And when you go on an ayahuasca journey and ceremony,

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Speaker 2: you realize that we are not our bodies, we are

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Speaker 2: eternal beings inside here. And our bodies, yeah, they're going

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Speaker 2: to expire someday because they're just meat suits. But we

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Speaker 2: are eternal. And when you kind of feel, when you

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Speaker 2: get the sense of our eternalness, then it's that's a

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Speaker 2: gift because you live your life differently.

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Speaker 1: I've heard people tell me what they experienced when they

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Speaker 1: did ayahuasca or whatever, and I'm curious, what was it like?

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Speaker 1: Can you just tell me, like what it was like

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Speaker 1: for you?

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Speaker 2: Well, it was in a house. It was with a

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Speaker 2: shaman who had been in Peru for twenty years, who

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Speaker 2: was taught by the original shamans down there, who had

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Speaker 2: been passed from generation to generation. And you know, for

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Speaker 2: thousands of years. It's an ancient medicine that they boil

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Speaker 2: down from a vine and a leaf, and the vine

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Speaker 2: has the DMT in it, which is what all of us,

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Speaker 2: every living thing has DMT in it. It's sort of

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Speaker 2: the it's been called the spirit molecule. And the vine

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Speaker 2: that they brew it up with has the enzyme that

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Speaker 2: helps our own body. If we were to just take

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Speaker 2: the vine, our own enzymes would block the DMT from

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Speaker 2: doing anything and it would go through us. But the

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Speaker 2: vine suppresses our own body's enzyme and allows the DMT

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Speaker 2: to interact with our own DMT that's in our pineal

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Speaker 2: gland back in the back of our head. And that

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Speaker 2: is the only times that it occurs naturally that we

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Speaker 2: know of, is at birth and at death. So this

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Speaker 2: is released, and you, your spirit, not your body, but

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Speaker 2: your spirit goes on. Your soul goes to that place

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Speaker 2: of oneness where we all come from, that the non physical,

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Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, you are. You know

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Speaker 2: that you're still in a house, in a room. You

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Speaker 2: understand you don't go anywhere, but you also understand that

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Speaker 2: your mind, your understanding of it, is all different. You're

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Speaker 2: disconnected from your body. You often you throw up, you purge,

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Speaker 2: not so much the other stuff, but sometimes that happens,

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Speaker 2: and then again there's a feeling of a download. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of visuals that are different with with with

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Speaker 2: different people. Some people visualize actual spirit, they see large beings,

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Speaker 2: they see things that it can be fearful. Sometimes it

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Speaker 2: sort of depends on the person mind. I've had bad

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Speaker 2: what I would call a bad experience, but it was

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Speaker 2: a very learning experience.

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Speaker 1: Do you see things that happened in your life, do

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Speaker 1: you kind of reconcile with hurts or traumas or relationships

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Speaker 1: that have gone wrong.

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Speaker 2: It is not a review in your mind, No, it

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Speaker 2: is a way of understanding that those things were necessary

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Speaker 2: to be who you are. And you come out of

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Speaker 2: it and you go, oh, I'm not going to hold

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Speaker 2: onto those traumas anymore. Those traumas don't affect me anymore

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Speaker 2: because I'm grateful they were a part of my life

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Speaker 2: that helped me ask for more so that I could

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Speaker 2: bring that in so that I could bring better into

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Speaker 2: my life. An understanding I got through all this is

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Speaker 2: that we live in a dualistic world. There's good and bad,

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Speaker 2: there's light and dark. There's up and down. Everything has

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Speaker 2: an opposite. There's wanted and the lack of it. And

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Speaker 2: every time we want something, we also bring that lack

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Speaker 2: of it with us. There will always be rich and poor.

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Speaker 2: There will always be that, because you can't be one

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Speaker 2: without the other. And to then inside be okay with that,

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Speaker 2: to understand that that is how this existence is and

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Speaker 2: outside of this reality is a oneness, is a fairness,

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Speaker 2: is a is pure joy. And so you go, oh,

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Speaker 2: the only way I can, the only way we were

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Speaker 2: are are here to create and move what we call

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Speaker 2: the us here on the bleeding edge of creation is

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Speaker 2: to experience this light and dark. So there's there's a

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Speaker 2: kind of an understanding. You don't you don't work anything out.

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Speaker 2: It's not here to you know, work it out, and

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Speaker 2: what's good or bad that that it's all oneness. It's

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Speaker 2: all that sort of yin and yang symbol. That's the

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Speaker 2: reason that that symbol is is is it's you get

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Speaker 2: the whole by having both the light and the dark.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense, Yeah, I mean it does. I just

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Speaker 1: think I'm not that deep.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, you don't have to be you really don't know.

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Speaker 2: This is not something that everyone has to be this.

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Speaker 2: This is what it took for me to be that way,

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Speaker 2: to need to find peace. You find your piece the

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Speaker 2: way you do, and a lot of us, especially women,

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Speaker 2: a lot of us don't have to Our left brains

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Speaker 2: don't have to read it all and figure it all out.

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Speaker 2: Our right brains just know it instinctively. It's you know,

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Speaker 2: that's the intuitive part. And you've seen enough of the world,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure, and talk to enough people to kind of understand.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you don't have a false thought about celebrity.

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Speaker 2: You understand the people are people, and so there's probably

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Speaker 2: you probably don't need that sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: We're going to take a quick break. When we come back,

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Speaker 3: we'll hear from Melissa on how her spiritual progress has

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Speaker 3: affected her relationships.

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Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a

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00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,919
Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

339
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Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

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Speaker 1: wake Upcall by going to Katiecuric dot com. I want

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00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: to tell you all about the cancer Straight Talk podcast

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00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,240
Speaker 1: from Memorial Sloan Cattering Cancer Center with MSK oncologist doctor

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00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 1: Diane Reedy Lagunis. I was a guest, and we had

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Speaker 1: a totally candid conversation about my family's experiences with cancer,

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Speaker 1: including my husband's illness, my own treatment for breast cancer,

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Speaker 1: and of course, that time I got a colonoscopy. On TV,

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Speaker 1: Cancer Straight Talk features life affirming conversations with experts and

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Speaker 1: patients alike about topics affecting everyone touched by cancer. If

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Speaker 1: that includes you, I hope you'll listen to my episode

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Speaker 1: and every episode of Cancer Straight Talk.

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Speaker 3: We're back with Alyssa Athriage.

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Speaker 1: Would you say you're now a much happier person, Melissa?

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Speaker 1: Do you feel settled and happy because you have been

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Speaker 1: through a lot. You've had a lot of turmoil in

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Speaker 1: your life, you lost your son, you had a very

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Speaker 1: distant mom. It made me so sad about what you

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Speaker 1: wrote about your mom. I'm going to read this. You

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Speaker 1: described your dad as a nice guy and fun parent,

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Speaker 1: but your mom seemed pretty unhappy and you were determined

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Speaker 1: not to be like her. And you write as I

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Speaker 1: grew up, what became clear was my mother's lack of

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Speaker 1: enthusiasm for her life. She didn't want anything more than

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Speaker 1: to go through the motions of work, to come home,

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Speaker 1: get dinner on the table, with a sigh and very

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Speaker 1: little eye contact, and then get lost inside one of

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Speaker 1: her many classics books that transported her out of her life.

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Speaker 1: When I pull from my memories, I see my mother

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Speaker 1: sitting in her favorite living room chair, angle down toward

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Speaker 1: her book, a glass of something at her side. I

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Speaker 1: love this line by the way that I'm about to read.

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Speaker 1: The tableau carries with it an untouchable and loneeness, an

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Speaker 1: image bringing into high relief the signal radiating off of

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Speaker 1: her telling me she didn't want to be approached or interrupted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, And you know what, I'm grateful,

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Speaker 2: I truly am because of that. I was sent on

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Speaker 2: a journey of looking for that comfort outside of myself.

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Speaker 2: I went through some heavy relationships because of that, because

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Speaker 2: I wanted that person to fill that up, but not

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Speaker 2: until I realized it's up to me to fill that

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Speaker 2: part of me up, to love me. And then once

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Speaker 2: I once I could do that, once I started doing

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Speaker 2: then I have a relationship now where I don't need

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Speaker 2: that person to do that. And it's the most loving

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Speaker 2: relationship I've ever had because we both are coming from

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Speaker 2: a place of nurturing ourselves. And I know that I'm

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Speaker 2: more available to my children. And because of that, because

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Speaker 2: I don't have that.

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Speaker 1: Do you understand your mom better today?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Oh yes?

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Speaker 1: And what made her that way? Do you think, Melissa?

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Speaker 2: Well can you? I mean, I don't know about your mother,

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Speaker 2: but remember them growing up in the thirties and forties

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Speaker 2: and fifties, and they come of age in the fifties

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Speaker 2: and sixties. And my mother was extremely intelligent. She really was.

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Speaker 2: She started as a as a secretary just to make

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Speaker 2: extra money because my father was a teacher and unfortunately

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Speaker 2: we don't pay our teachers here, and so she started

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Speaker 2: making extra money. And it was the time when computers

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Speaker 2: were just being made, and she was hired by Booz Allen,

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Speaker 2: the financial company or whatever it was in Kansas City,

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Speaker 2: and she was one hundred percent hidden figures. They sent

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Speaker 2: her in because she could understand how to program the

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Speaker 2: She used to tell me when computers were as big

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Speaker 2: as whole rooms and she would she would do that

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Speaker 2: and she got really good.

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Speaker 1: I remember that. I remember seeing those ads. Remember they

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Speaker 1: were just like wall to wall, big massive things.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And so she could understand it. And she was

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Speaker 2: hired by the army base that we had Levenworth and

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Speaker 2: fort Levenworth, and they hired her and she started. She

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Speaker 2: worked in wargames and scenarios, and she would do all

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Speaker 2: these computer computations and the generals would take them and

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Speaker 2: take all the credit, and she would get paid half

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Speaker 2: of what everyone else was paying. And I don't know

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Speaker 2: how else she was treated, but she was just angry

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Speaker 2: the whole time because she got no credit and no

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Speaker 2: money for what she did. And yeah, I'd be a

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Speaker 2: little cranky too at the end of the day, you know.

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Speaker 2: And so I do understand. I understand that women back

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Speaker 2: then were highly underused, underappreciated, and you know she was.

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Speaker 2: She was absolutely part of that.

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Speaker 1: You also write about your older sister Jenny. Yeah, gosh, Melissa.

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Speaker 2: It's well, look, there are people that have had worse lives,

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Speaker 2: you know than me.

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Speaker 1: No, no, I know that, but this was this was

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Speaker 1: like she sexually abused you. Yeah, from the age of

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Speaker 1: six or seven.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's about seven or eight, I think, and till

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Speaker 2: about when I was twelve and went no, stop, you know,

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Speaker 2: and and it's you know, you know, that's again no

431
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 2: fun as a as a kid, and you kind of

432
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 2: it can mess you up a little bit. But I'm

433
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 2: again I'm not going to be, you know, tethered to that.

434
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 2: I freed myself from that. I I went on from that.

435
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 2: It became you know that that's so far distant from

436
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: me that it's almost funny talking about it, you know,

437
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 2: and her life. She was just miserable. She just had

438
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,959
Speaker 2: a miserable life, and you know, still kind of is.

439
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: But we you know, I don't, we don't talk. We

440
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: just it's just a fine understanding that, you know, we

441
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 2: just were two people that happened to be in the

442
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: same family together.

443
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: How strange, though, you know, I haven't heard of a

444
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: sister really sexually abusing another sister that often. Is that unusual?

445
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I think it is. I think she was

446
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: being sexually abused somehow, not from my parents, but somehow

447
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 2: in the in the family system. I think it was happening.

448
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: I don't know where. I long time ago. I tried

449
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 2: to talk to her about it, and it was just

450
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: she was just kind of disconnected from it. So, you know,

451
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 2: I think it was happening to her because children act

452
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: out what's happening to them, so you know, there you go.

453
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: You know, it seems to me that music sort of

454
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: was your lifeline I mean, you're an incredible lyricist and

455
00:26:54,560 --> 00:27:00,120
Speaker 1: obviously musician, but I have to believe that all these

456
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: traumas and all these kind of feeling unlove by your mother,

457
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: all these things fed into your music, oh as well

458
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: as your relationship with your father, because you write about

459
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: music being the communication between the two of you. So

460
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: can you just talk about that a little bit, Melissa,

461
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: and how that music fed your soul at a time

462
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: where your soul needed feeding so much.

463
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, when you're in a situation that is not

464
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: feeding you, not giving you the energy you're looking for,

465
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: you're going to go. I always call it the kids

466
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 2: go where it's warm. They just naturally are going to

467
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 2: go there. My father was very warm, He was very fun,

468
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: He was understanding, was he wasn't the smartest guy, but

469
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: he was clever, and he loved music. He didn't play music,

470
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: but he loved it. He played the records all the time,

471
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: and the radio was on, and so it filled my

472
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: life and it lifted sort of the heaviness that was

473
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: in our house. You know, you grew up in the

474
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 2: sixties and seventies, and yeah, you know a lot of

475
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 2: us we just it was like we're just supposed to

476
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 2: pretend everything's okay, and you're like, yeah, but my sister

477
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: is really losing it here. But you're all pretending that

478
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 2: everything's okay, and that sort of messes you up for

479
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: that tension that can build. Music released it, and I

480
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 2: would love nothing more than to grab my guitar and

481
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: go into a room by myself and play. That made

482
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: me very happy. It pushed all of that. I didn't

483
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: have to worry about any of that outside of me,

484
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: and it just grew from there. My father he was

485
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: never one to say, oh, Melissa, you're really good, You're

486
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: going to be big, you know. He never said anything

487
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: like that. He just never said you can't do it.

488
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: He was like, oh, you need a ride, I'll take

489
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: you there. I will take you here, I will I

490
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: will do that. He was available, and just that availability

491
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: enabled me to grow my musical career.

492
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: I'm trying to picture you as a young girl sitting

493
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: on your bean back chair listening to your dad put

494
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: record after record on the turntable, and I'm wondering what

495
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: kind of music he played.

496
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 2: He loved Neil Diamond, so he loved he loved singer songwriters,

497
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: which really, you know, affected me I listened to a

498
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 2: lot of Paul Simon, Simon and Garfunkel, Neil Diamond. I

499
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: remember him playing me one of Neil Diamond's albums and

500
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: he Neil Diamond covered a song by Randy Newman. It

501
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: was called I Think It's going to rain today, beautiful song,

502
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: and he one of the lines was Scarecrow's dressed in

503
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: the latest styles, broken smiles, that chase love away, human

504
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 2: kindness is overflowing, and I think It's going to rain today,

505
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: And he said, you see how he writes that, and

506
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: you know he's he's describing, you know, metaphors and things

507
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: and how they work to me and how you know,

508
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: he's talking about people walking down the street and human

509
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: kindness is overflowing. Isn't is an overstatement? It's it's you know,

510
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: it's And he's showing me how to write and what

511
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: moves people in the mind when you're writing. And I'm

512
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: so grateful for that. It was like a class in songwriting.

513
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: Was your dad telling you that or were you just

514
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 1: learning this from Neil Diamond and the other artists your

515
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: dad loved well.

516
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: He would he would just play me a line and go, gosh,

517
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: isn't that great? I knew that he would love it,

518
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: and so I would pick it apart and go, oh,

519
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: my gosh, what is it that's so great about this?

520
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: And I would listen to them.

521
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: Oh, how cool. Yeah. So that was obviously incredibly formative

522
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: for you as a songwriter, and you realized after a

523
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: talent show when you're eleven years old, hey, I'm going

524
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: to be a famous musician.

525
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: We yes from Kansas, a woman rockstar. There is none,

526
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: but I'm going to do that. Yeah.

527
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: Take us back to that Talent show and what you

528
00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: played and how it clicked.

529
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: I can't wait for you to come see the Broadway

530
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: show because this is you know, some of these parts

531
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: you know play in the show. I actually talk about

532
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: the guy who put the Talent show together. He was

533
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: from like Philadelphia, it was just passing through. He's sort

534
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: of like the music man kind of guy. He was

535
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: a ventriloquist and he you know, this is nineteen seventy

536
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: two or something or seventy.

537
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: Three, sounds like Professor Harold Hill.

538
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: Exactly, and put he took all the things from the

539
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 2: Talent Show, all the acts, and he made a variety

540
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: show and we would go around to old folks homes

541
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: and the prisons in Leavenworth, you know, in prisons.

542
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: Wow.

543
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: And yeah, we would play for real audiences, and I'm

544
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 2: twelve years old thinking this is awesome, you know. And

545
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: it gave me a chance to play in front of people,

546
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 2: to start writing songs and consider, you know, oh, I've

547
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: got to write this for our next thing. And from

548
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: there I found a band that was playing around town

549
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: and my whole career just grew from there.

550
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: And did you just sort of were you a natural

551
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: born singer? Did people say, wow, Melissa, You've got an

552
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: incredible I mean, your voice is so unique and so special.

553
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: Did people say wow this you know, you've got a

554
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 1: particular sound. And I know you say that you've always

555
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: wanted to sing like Carol King, And I think it's

556
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: interesting because you do have similarities I think in your voices.

557
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. I listened to Tapestry a lot because she was

558
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: a singer songwriter. And actually Tapestry was the first album

559
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: that my father ever got for just for me on Christmas.

560
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: I listened to that album eight trillion.

561
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: Times, Yes, over and over.

562
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: You must have been in like fourth or fifth grade

563
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: when it came out, maybe fourth, because I think it

564
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: came out when I was in seventh grade that I'm

565
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: four years older than you.

566
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 2: Are, right, Yeah, so it was that time, and you know,

567
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: the music that was out there just delicious.

568
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: Oh so you're traveling around Kansas, you're performing, do people say, wow, girl,

569
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: you know you've got it.

570
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: When I was in a choir, I was in a

571
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: church choir first, and would sing. The choir director would

572
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: put me in the back row because my voice was

573
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: so strange and I shouldn't have been like a tenor

574
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: or a baritone singing with the boys. But they weren't

575
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: going to do that with me, you know. And later

576
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 2: as I as I started singing in bands, I was told, hey,

577
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 2: you know, I like your voice because I was able

578
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: to sing kind of popular songs. But when I was

579
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: in school and stuff, people were kind of like, what's

580
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: that voice? It sort of stood out, and it was

581
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: not a pleasant standing out.

582
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: Well, it's so different, I think, you know, it's sort

583
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: of raspy and strong, and you know, I think of

584
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: people like Janice Joplin, right, and Carol King with this

585
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: very unique sound.

586
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: Everyone kind of assumed that I drank a lot of

587
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 2: whiskey and smoked a lot of cigarettes, and I didn't.

588
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: I was in those places where people were doing that,

589
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: but I didn't. I just my father. The one thing,

590
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: the only thing he ever really told me, is kind

591
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 2: of a a not a critique but advice. He was like,

592
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: don't sing through your nose. He used to say that,

593
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: and I didn't know quite what he meant. So I

594
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 2: kept pushing all my sound into my chest, you know,

595
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: and everything was really big so that I wouldn't sing

596
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 2: through my nose. And so I think that I sort

597
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 2: of trained my voice to be this kind of large sound.

598
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: You write about in the book Dealing with Your Sexuality,

599
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 1: And you know, sometimes I think about, and again, because

600
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: we're contemporaries, what it was like for gay people when

601
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: we were little kids, and I grew up in Virginia,

602
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: you're in Kansas, and how much has changed now, And

603
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: it's just remarkable to me, how much I hope, and

604
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: I don't know if you agree with me, how much

605
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: progress has been made, how much more acceptance there is,

606
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I remember my gym teacher thinking, oh,

607
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: miss miss Beats and Miss so and so live in

608
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: the same house, Like what's that about? But we never

609
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: kind of even you know, I remember my dad talking

610
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: about somebody he worked with who he thought was gay.

611
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: And I don't think my dad even used the word gay,

612
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know how he described him. But

613
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: it was so so secretive and such a subculture, and

614
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: it must have been really hard. I mean, how hard

615
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: was it?

616
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? How hard was it? Yeah? To go through adolescence.

617
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 2: And there there was a knowing that started happening around

618
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: eighth or ninth grade, when all my girlfriends were ah,

619
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: isn't Bobby so cute? Isn't Mark so cute? And I'd go,

620
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, what do you mean? And

621
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: and and then I would like watch you know, the

622
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 2: Bionic Woman and go, oh, isn't Listening Wagoner so beautiful?

623
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 2: You know, there's something like that, you know, And and

624
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 2: and then I started feeling this way about maybe certain

625
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: girls in school, and I'd go, well, that's you know,

626
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: what's what's that? And then I remember, in about eighth grade,

627
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 2: is someone in in gym class or something going oh,

628
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 2: she's a lezie. I was like, what's a what's a lezie?

629
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 2: I didn't know. Oh, that's a girl that likes other girls.

630
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 2: And I went, oh, there's there's something wrong with this, oh,

631
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: this is and and the first thing, you know, when

632
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 2: the first say you.

633
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: Hear they weren't talking about you.

634
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 2: They were doing somebody else. Yeah who was not you know,

635
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: they were just calling somebody names. And you realize, oh,

636
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 2: there's this. This is a bad thing, this is a

637
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: this is a thing that you call somebody else. And

638
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 2: then and then you have that deep sinking feeling, Oh

639
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: maybe that's me, Maybe I am and And you know,

640
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 2: you go through high school. I tried, I had a

641
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 2: boyfriend and tried, and was I like this guy as

642
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: a person. But there's I just I feel nothing else.

643
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 2: I feel nothing else after that, and then the first

644
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: time I ever kissed a girl, you know, it just

645
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: blew my mind. And you just realize that, you know,

646
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 2: even though it wasn't spoken about, it was not in

647
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: popular culture, there was nothing. The first thing I ever

648
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 2: saw was the Billy Jean King and the trouble she

649
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 2: got into. That was the first thing I ever saw

650
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: in the newspapers. And I remember standing there looking at

651
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 2: it thinking, oh, you get in trouble when when this happens?

652
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: And so you you know, you keep it to yourself.

653
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: This is a this is a deep, dark seeker because

654
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 2: you're going to and then once you kind of turned eighteen,

655
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 2: the first thing you think is, I got to get

656
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: it out of this small town and go to a

657
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 2: bigger city where there's more of us that gather. And

658
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 2: that's why the bars used to be such a safe place,

659
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 2: because you know, you could go there, you could meet

660
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: other people, and community was very important. Then then in

661
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: the eighties, when when AIDS came, those communities became politically active.

662
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 2: We realized we were dying and nobody cared and it

663
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 2: really affected us. And some of the smartest and strongest

664
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: of our leaders got together. And those are the people

665
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: that I knew back in the late eighties and early

666
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 2: nineties that when I finally said, look, this is who

667
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 2: I am and I came out and started talking about it,

668
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: I was already very educated, and I had been within

669
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 2: this community for ten years and had learned the importance

670
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: of people seeing someone gay. And I still to this

671
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: day people will come to me and say, you know,

672
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: you got me through my childhood. You were the only

673
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 2: other person I knew that was gay, And it means

674
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: so much to me to see artists now who just

675
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 2: are gay and it doesn't matter this is a part

676
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: of who they are and it's okay, and that this

677
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: just brings me so much joy. And all the other

678
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: mishigosh that's going on in our politics is just they

679
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 2: of division, and no matter what, we are definitely definitely

680
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 2: getting better. It's getting better.

681
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: You talk about a relationship you had, You're first with

682
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: the woman Jane, the colonel's daughter. You call her and

683
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 1: you say that this set up a pattern for you

684
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: that would repeat itself in future relationships. What happened with

685
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: Jane and how did it keep manifesting itself over and

686
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: over again?

687
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't blame it on Jane. It was the

688
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 2: dynamics that came from my mother and my sister, that

689
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 2: sort of you know, messed upness with them, the unavailable,

690
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: the coldness, and the sort of psychoticness, you know, it combined,

691
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 2: you know, that sort of troubled person. Oh that's attractive

692
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: to me, you know, let's you know, you find yourself

693
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: being attracted to sort of that situation. And so the

694
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 2: more I as we started a conversation with the more

695
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 2: I was looking for it outside of myself to fix

696
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: the emptiness inside of me, the more I was going

697
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: to get that trouble, and that was the first, you know,

698
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 2: couple serious relationships in my life. We're looking for, Oh,

699
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 2: I need someone who is really interesting and dark and

700
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 2: gorgeous and beautiful because I'm not and you know these

701
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: things that you think, Okay, this person is going to

702
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 2: fill that up in me and then me the pleaser.

703
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to make the world all right for you.

704
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 2: I you know, I held back the world for you.

705
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 2: I did this. I'm going to do everything so that

706
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: you will love me.

707
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: It's just a.

708
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: Really dangerous hole to dig yourself in. It will give

709
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 2: you cancer.

710
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: That well, we'll talk about that in a moment. But

711
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: that's why that line in Jerry Maguire was so dangerous. Yes,

712
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: and such a bad, you know, sort of way to

713
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: go through life. You complete me? Yeah, and I think

714
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: that it's better to say you. What would be a

715
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: better word than complete?

716
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: You? You delight me? You you boy. There's a word

717
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 2: that we're both looking for. But between our.

718
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: Brain I know what is that word? Wait?

719
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 2: Wait, what is that you?

720
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: Oh?

721
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: Thank you?

722
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: I just thought of it too. Yes, you compliment me?

723
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 2: Yes, right, it works together?

724
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: Yes, right, well we could between the two of us,

725
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: we actually came up with it. You know, I have

726
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: to ask you about your relationship with Julie Cipher because

727
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: you were together for more than ten years, you had

728
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: two kids, bothered by of course, David Crosby pretty famously,

729
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: and you split up in nineteen ninety nine, and there

730
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 1: must have been a lot of pressure on you, Melissa,

731
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 1: because I know breaking up with Julie made you feel

732
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,919
Speaker 1: like you were letting down the gate community, oh very much.

733
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 2: So I felt like, you know, I had gone out

734
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: to be this you know, famously out person with a

735
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 2: famously you know family, being one of the first you know,

736
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: out families of the gay community and it's okay to

737
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: be you know, gay and have children, and back then

738
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,479
Speaker 2: that was really really not okay to a lot.

739
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: Of right right, that was you were one of the

740
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: first public gay companies and to then you were raising

741
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: a family like and.

742
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: Then two years later go, yeah, we're our family's broken now.

743
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 2: It just it it hurt even more than the getting out,

744
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 2: because the getting out was good for me. I needed

745
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 2: to find my happiness. I was not happy. It was

746
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: not a healthy relationship, so you know, that was good

747
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 2: for me, but the feeling of shame of letting everyone

748
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: down was really dark, very much.

749
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: So what do you think that you were looking for

750
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: her to complete? You were the same dynamics playing over

751
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 1: with that relationship.

752
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: Yes, I think one of the It's so funny because

753
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 2: I look back now and I just think I was

754
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 2: just so crazy and so stupid just to believe that

755
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: I wasn't attractive. There's a this this neat. It came

756
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 2: with the wanting to be, you know, famous and a

757
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 2: rock star, and I want to be in the public eye.

758
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: I want to give my music and have people listen,

759
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 2: and then I'm going to be a very visual person,

760
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: especially in the eighties and nineties when that was everything

761
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 2: was was the cover of the magazine and how we

762
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: looked and it was and music videos. Music videos were huge,

763
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 2: and I was not a fashionable person at all. I

764
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: was most comfortable in my jeans and T shirts, which

765
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 2: I should have just stayed with. But you know, you

766
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 2: try to please you, and you think you have to

767
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 2: be something else than what you are to make it,

768
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: and you hire someone else to do it. So, oh,

769
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 2: if I have this really attractive, dark, gorgeous wife, then

770
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 2: they'll think I'm attractive somehow. So that was so much

771
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: a part of it, which is so shallow when I

772
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 2: say it, it's like God, but so true. The insecurity

773
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: was really there, and it tortured me for a long time.

774
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: And you know, now I look back and go, I

775
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: do I think I'm just so ridiculous. I think I

776
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: was very attractive when I was younger, and I just

777
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 2: never ever saw it.

778
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 1: We just waste so much time worrying about this and

779
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: comparing ourselves to other people, and it, you know, is

780
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: it is such a fool's errand to be full of

781
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: self loathing and to feel like you're less than. But

782
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: society really pushes us to think that way. Yeah, and

783
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: you know what society values, what images we are costed

784
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 1: by on a regular basis. So I mean, I want

785
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: to say it's not necessarily your fault or my fault

786
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: when I would be critical or never think I was

787
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: thin enough, or you never thought you were pretty enough?

788
00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, I mean, now, yeah, I look back

789
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: and know that, Oh, it was so much of it

790
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 2: was what I was saying where I was at, and

791
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,959
Speaker 2: and just the lack of the kind of support either

792
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 2: family support or you know, peer support of no, you're

793
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: you know, we're all fine. And that's why I really

794
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 2: look actually back then, Well, when I look at the

795
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 2: younger generations, the millennials that you know, jen zd or

796
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: whatever they are now, and it's like, oh no, they're

797
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 2: they're going to be okay because there's so many different looks.

798
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 2: There's so much there's not just this one idealized look

799
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 2: that you know you have to be. It's it's just

800
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: being who you are. Being the more individual is actually celebrated.

801
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: You know. It makes me think of what David Cassidy

802
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: said on his deathbed, which wasn't really about caring about

803
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: his appearances, but it was about not repairing his relationships.

804
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: Do you know what he said? No? What so much

805
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: wasted time? That makes me so sad, But it also

806
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: makes me think about things.

807
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: Yes, getting back to ayahuasca, that's the sort of knowledge

808
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: you come back with and you don't have to be

809
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 2: dying because, like I said, it's the same sort of

810
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 2: experience when you realize, oh, oh no, why did I

811
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 2: waste all that time thinking I wasn't enough, I wasn't

812
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: good enough? When those thoughts don't serve anything. If I

813
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: just looked up and looked out, I could have seen,

814
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:32,800
Speaker 2: oh this is this is delicious. I can enjoy this more.

815
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 2: We are here to enjoy things. We really are and

816
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 2: we put ourselves through so much.

817
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this shortbreak. When we come back,

818
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 3: Melissa talks about her cancer diagnosis and what it was

819
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 3: like undergoing treatment in the public.

820
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 1: Eye with no fees or minimums. Banking with Capital one

821
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 1: is the easiest decision in the history of decisions, even

822
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: easier than deciding to listen to another episode of your

823
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 1: favorite podcast, and with no overdraft fees? Is it even

824
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: a decision that's banking reimagined? What's in your wallet? Terms

825
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,319
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826
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: member FDIC.

827
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 3: We're back with Melissa Etheridge.

828
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 1: You know I have to ask you about your breast

829
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: cancer because we talked a little bit about this with

830
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: Andy Cohen, which was a funny setting to talk about it.

831
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: But any any setting, honestly, is an important setting, I

832
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: think to get it out in the open. And you

833
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: were diagnosed in two thousand and formalists, so you were

834
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: just forty three years old, and I know you decided

835
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: to stop chemo when you decided to perform at the Grammys.

836
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: Bald is a cue ball because you went through a lumpectomy,

837
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: but also because you had a lot in your lymph nodes,

838
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: you also needed to get chemotherapy and radiation and it

839
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: took its toll. But tell me about performing at the

840
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: Grammys when you were balled as a cue ball and

841
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: you sang this incredible tribute to Janice Joplin.

842
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: Well, it was after I had decided to stop my

843
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 2: chemo treatment. So I'd been through a I'd just been

844
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: through that spiritual thing and understanding about my body, and

845
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 2: I thought, you know what, give me, give me a

846
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: little I'm going to try to do it this one.

847
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 2: I'm trying to really heal myself from the inside out.

848
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: And I was going to walk a different path, less stress, less,

849
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 2: self loathing, all those things. And so I really was.

850
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 2: So I stopped. I was still doing radiation, and I

851
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: went to radiation that morning of the show. I hadn't

852
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 2: been out in public at all for three months, about

853
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 2: three almost four months. I hadn't been out, and I

854
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: I got radiation that morning. I told my radiologist and

855
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 2: what I was doing, I'm going to be on the

856
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 2: Grammy tonight, you know, watch me. I had no idea

857
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: what the response would be. I really didn't. I was.

858
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 2: I was backstage with my band and Josh Stone. She

859
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 2: also sang we sang together Janis Joplin song. She sang

860
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: cry Baby, and I sang Piece of My Part, and

861
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: Josh was back there and she was a big fan,

862
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 2: and she was really sweet, and I was telling her

863
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 2: she'd never been on the Grammys, and I was doing

864
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 2: the old veteran thing of saying, well, you know, nobody,

865
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 2: you know, the Grammys are the worst audience to perform for.

866
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 2: They don't they just sit there, they don't give you anything.

867
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: They're all just, you know, concerned about how they look.

868
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: And so if you know, don't have low expectations, have

869
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: low expectations, don't think that anything's you know, going to happen.

870
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: And my guitar player walks over to me and he

871
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 2: looks at me, goes, Melissa, you don't know what you're

872
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: about to do, do you? And I looked at him

873
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 2: and went, huh, you know, what are you saying? And

874
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 2: then once I took the stage and the reception I got,

875
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 2: I mean, it still brings I still get choked up

876
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: about it, The hugely warm reception I got singing and

877
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 2: even though I was really weak. That was probably the

878
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 2: weakest I've ever been when I was singing. I remember

879
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,439
Speaker 2: I was singing the song and thinking, wow, I got

880
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: to save my energy for that scream at the end.

881
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 2: There's the big Joplin scream I was going to do

882
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 2: at the end, and so I just sort of stood there,

883
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 2: which I think made the performance on camera better because

884
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,479
Speaker 2: they were able to just focus on me. I didn't

885
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: kind of move around and stuff, and I let out

886
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 2: the scream. I finished the song. The crowd went crazy.

887
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 2: I was so one hundred percent wrong about the crowd right.

888
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: And I'm sure Josh Stone was saying that bitch just

889
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: set me up.

890
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: No, Josh is beautiful. She was wonderful, was very very great.

891
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 2: But I was like, oh, I was wrong, sorry, and

892
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 2: I just I went home and I didn't think about it.

893
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 2: There was no you know, there was a really social

894
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 2: media back then, not really and so it wasn't until

895
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 2: a couple of days later because I went home and

896
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 2: I went to bed. I just went to sleep, and

897
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 2: that my best friend, now my wife called me and said,

898
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 2: oh my god, You're all over everywhere. You're all over

899
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 2: the news. People are having discussions about you and baldness

900
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 2: and cancer, and I was like, what what are you

901
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 2: talking about? And it just it just blew up. And

902
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 2: still to this day, I still get people. I met

903
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 2: a little girl at a bookstore. She was in a

904
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 2: wheelchair and she was bald. I'm like, oh, she's in treatment,

905
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 2: and I just feel so much for the young ones

906
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: that are going through it. And I just approached her

907
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 2: and her father was talking to somebody and I just said, oh,

908
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: you know, I just want to say I went through this.

909
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 2: And the father looks down, she goes, oh, honey, remember

910
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 2: that video I showed you. This is the woman. Ah,

911
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 2: you know, so it's still it still touches me all

912
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: the time.

913
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Well. It was such a memorable and the

914
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: visual of it, Melissa, was just so dramatic, coupled with

915
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: this voice, the powerful voice you were able to summon,

916
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: probably propelled by all the love you felt in that room.

917
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of that, a lot of that.

918
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: You dedicate the book to your son, Beckett, and as

919
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: I said, you know, I just marvel at your resilience,

920
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: but the roller coaster ride that has been your life

921
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: and you lost your son, and it's so upsetting because

922
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: I know, he started taking vicodin after a snowboarding accident. Yeah,

923
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 1: and like so many people in this country, became addicted

924
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: to opioids, which is just so infuriating.

925
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, his life before he started vicodin, he was he

926
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 2: was not in a I wouldn't call him a happy individual.

927
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 2: He was one that sort of had a hard time.

928
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: He had a hard time finding happiness. And so it's

929
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 2: that sort of personality, that sort of individual that can then, man,

930
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 2: if you give them something that not only takes the

931
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: physical pain away, but nums that that dissonance inside of them, Yeah,

932
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 2: that's that's gonna be addictive. And then physically if you

933
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 2: don't take it, you're gonna feel bad. Then you're stuck.

934
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 2: You don't have the the will well willpower, you don't

935
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 2: have the ability, you don't have the tools at all

936
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 2: to get out of it. And we you know, he

937
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 2: went in and out of rehabs and the tools of

938
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,240
Speaker 2: just don't do it. And here's therapy to talk about

939
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: all the bad things you went through. Is not really working.

940
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: It's it's it's not and and that's that's why uh

941
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 2: I started the Etharge Foundation. It it raises money to

942
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 2: provide research into plant medicines and psychedelics that are helping

943
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 2: with this. It's directly to help with opioid use disorder,

944
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 2: but there's so many there's so much other research. You

945
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 2: hear about psilocybin and cancer, you know, people that have

946
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:11,439
Speaker 2: cancer and the what is it when hospice hospice, Yeah,

947
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 2: you know helps with people that are at the end

948
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: of life and.

949
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 1: Also with PTSD, all kinds of all these.

950
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 2: Things that it helps so much. So let's and and

951
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 2: it's still these are still schedule one, which is saying

952
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 2: there's no medical you know, there's no medical data that

953
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 2: it's any good. So we are providing the research and

954
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 2: the medical data so that we can come and change

955
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 2: this so these things can't be available. And that that

956
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: makes me feel like I'm doing something to move this forward.

957
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 1: There are so many exciting developments in this area of research.

958
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: I think we just scratched the surface, and I think

959
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: it's really really fascinating and it's changing lives for a

960
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: lot of people. You live streamed a concert that you

961
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 1: called the heel Emy Concert, and in that you sang

962
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: something to your son.

963
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 2: It was you are my Sunshine, right, Yeah, that's that's

964
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 2: a song. I used to always sing to my kids,

965
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 2: you know, to put you know, as lullabies when when

966
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 2: it was time to go to bed. I would just

967
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 2: sing a few songs to them, as one that I

968
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 2: sang because it's such a sweet melody. But I would

969
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 2: sing it and it would I would try not to

970
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,760
Speaker 2: make it so sad, because it's actually a very sad song.

971
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,320
Speaker 2: You know, the second verse, you know, the other night, DearS,

972
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 2: I lay sleeping, I dreamed I held you in my arms.

973
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 2: When I woke, I was mistaken, and I hung my

974
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 2: head and cried. It's the second version.

975
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: I know, I forgot about that.

976
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 2: It's so it's like I would only try to sing

977
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 2: like the first verse over and over. But it was

978
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 2: a you know, it was something I sang all the

979
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 2: time to all of my children.

980
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,479
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the show, Melissa Ethridge My Window, which

981
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: The New York Times describes as a rock concert, splice

982
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: with memoir. So what made you want to do abroad show? Melissa?

983
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you're like, I've done this, I've done that,

984
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 1: why not go to Broadway?

985
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 2: Well, I've deeply loved Broadway from as a child. I

986
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 2: mean I just adored Barber Streissan and everything she did,

987
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 2: and it sort of went from there to things like

988
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 2: Godspell and Jesus Cresh Superstar and hair. I just love

989
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, and Broadway was always this very

990
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: magical place that to me was a step, let's just say,

991
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 2: apart from sort of popular music and the way you

992
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: can manipulate pop music, you can't manipulate someone standing on

993
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 2: a stage singing to you. That's real. That's raw talent

994
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 2: and the writing and the gathering and moving a live

995
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 2: audience with story like that. There's just nothing else and

996
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 2: there never will be. It's such a pure form of entertainment.

997
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 2: And my wife and I for years, even before we

998
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 2: were together, we were working to We were always trying

999
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 2: to create something for television or Broadway. And when this opportunity,

1000
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 2: when I actually saw Bruce the Springsteen do his thing,

1001
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: I went, Okay, there's a door that now I can

1002
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 2: go in. I can say, look, Bruce did this. I

1003
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 2: want to do sort of amalgamation of what he did

1004
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 2: and a Broadway show. I want to create a rock

1005
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 2: concert memoir. It's a linear story of my songs, of me,

1006
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 2: of my life, of the book you just read, you know,

1007
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 2: it's the whole it's you know, it's that in two

1008
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 2: hours and.

1009
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: Must have been so fun to combine those two creative exercises,

1010
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: you know, writing and you're beautiful writer, which isn't a

1011
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: surprise when you listen to your lyrics, but you're writing

1012
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: and your musicality and have them marry in this production, right,

1013
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a pretty cool thing to be able

1014
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: to do. What's your favorite moment in the show.

1015
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 2: Oh, there's so many. There's so many that I didn't

1016
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: know would be my favorite until the audience got there

1017
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, they're having so much fun.

1018
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 2: One is where the theater I'm in is called is

1019
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: circle in the square and it's almost in the round.

1020
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 2: I'm able to go into the audience, and there's a

1021
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: couple of times that I do that are so much fun.

1022
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,919
Speaker 2: So when I do the song, I want to come over.

1023
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 2: It's just ridiculous. The whole audience is with me, you know,

1024
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 2: really understanding every line now a little better because I've

1025
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 2: given them the background on what's happening.

1026
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool, that's right, and sort of the life

1027
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 1: experiences that have informed your lyrics, where you were, what

1028
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: you were thinking. I love stuff like that. Because I

1029
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,439
Speaker 1: love to understand the genesis of a song and why

1030
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: did they write this? What was happening? And I'm really

1031
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: excited about it. Before we go, I know, Andy, and

1032
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: you and I talked about the fact that you are not,

1033
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 1: sadly in the rock and roll Hall of Fame. I

1034
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: hope you are at some point. You've won two Grammys,

1035
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 1: an Academy Award. Maybe you'll be up for a Tony

1036
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 1: after this Broadway show. And you said whatever, But Andy

1037
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: referred to Jan Wenner's quote, and I just want to

1038
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: read it because it's so annoying that he said this.

1039
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: He okay. He obviously is the founder of Rolling Stone magazine.

1040
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: He wrote a new book about his interviews, and he's

1041
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: facing criticism for saying that black and female musicians were

1042
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: not articulate enough to be included. In his new book,

1043
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: which features seven interviews with white male rock and roll icons.

1044
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: Winner said the many interviewed were kind of philosophers of

1045
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: rock and that no female musicians were quote as articulate

1046
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 1: enough on this intellectual level as the men. And I'm

1047
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: thinking what And he even said Joni Mitchell was not

1048
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 1: a philosopher of rock and roll, and I was just like,

1049
00:59:55,560 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: what was he smoking when he made these insane idiotic

1050
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: like tone deaf and I mean even if he thinks it,

1051
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: the fact that he said.

1052
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 2: It, I know, and you know what, it really set

1053
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 2: me free. It really did, because I used to be

1054
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 2: a little tortured about, you know, in the nineties thinking,

1055
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I was on the cover once,

1056
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 2: but they didn't they they never gave me a favorable

1057
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 2: review except for The Awakening. That was the one album,

1058
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 2: which is like barely anybody knows about that album that

1059
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 2: I made, but they didn't even review. Yes, I am,

1060
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 2: they didn't think it was good enough to even review.

1061
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 2: And I kept taking it so personally. This was back

1062
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 2: in the days when I took it personally, and because

1063
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone, to someone like me who followed rock and roll,

1064
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 2: followed music, that was the voice in which, you know,

1065
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: it told us what was good?

1066
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: Right, you knew you made it? I mean, there's even

1067
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 1: who wrote that song.

1068
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 2: Thote doctor Hooken, you know, the Medicine show. Yeah, and

1069
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 2: to realize, oh my god, I was trying to join

1070
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 2: this club where the men hated women in blacks, you know,

1071
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 2: and how am I wait a minute, you know, I.

1072
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: Do I really want to be a member of that club?

1073
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 2: Do I really want to be a member of that club?

1074
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: And it set me free. It's like, oh and he

1075
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 2: He also is on the founding board of the Rock

1076
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 2: and Roll Hall of Fame, which has been criticized for

1077
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,479
Speaker 2: years over not you know, over just being of white.

1078
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 2: They kicked him off, they did, so who maybe we'll

1079
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 2: see different now, but it just, uh, it really freed

1080
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: me to go, Okay, right, No, I'm just I can't

1081
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 2: look again, I can't look outside of myself for that acceptance.

1082
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 2: I have to know that my music has changed lives,

1083
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 2: that it has touched people. And every time an audience

1084
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 2: comes to see me, there are people there who who

1085
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 2: love this music, who cherish it. And that's all. And

1086
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 2: that's that's that's my success and and and that really

1087
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 2: helps me sleep at night. And yeah, oh yeah, what's thinking?

1088
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 2: What do you think?

1089
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 1: I know? I keep saying before we go, But I

1090
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: realized I didn't ask you about the title of this

1091
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 1: new book, talking to My Angels.

1092
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 2: Well, one of the songs on my sim album is

1093
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 2: talking to My Angel and I wrote it after my

1094
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 2: father died, and my father was very close to me,

1095
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 2: so I it's about leaving say, it's about change. It's

1096
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 2: about keeping that that person, even though they're not physically

1097
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 2: with you there and being able to to draw on

1098
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 2: it and get you know, warmth and comfort from them.

1099
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 2: And so having lost my father, having lost my son,

1100
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 2: and understanding that he's in that place now of no pain,

1101
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 2: of a non physical where if I'm joyous and happy,

1102
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 2: then I can connect with him because he is too.

1103
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,959
Speaker 2: And so it's it's it's that song, and it's it's

1104
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 2: just explaining that That's what I'm doing is talking to

1105
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 2: my angels.

1106
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 1: Well, Melissa, it's been so fun talking to you.

1107
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Ken.

1108
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: Thanks Melissa, thanks for listening. Everyone. If you have a

1109
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: question for me, a subject you want us to cover,

1110
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,240
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1111
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: navigate this crazy world, reach out. You can leave a

1112
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1113
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Speaker 1: to five five, or you can send me a DM

1114
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next

1115
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media.

1116
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz.

1117
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz and Our producers are

1118
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music.

1119
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 1: For more information about today's episode, or to sign up

1120
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 1: for my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description

1121
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com.

1122
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: You can also find me on Instagram and all my

1123
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 1: social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

1124
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:17,480
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1125
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