WEBVTT - Charlie Brusco 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftsnets podcast. My 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.400 guest today is manager Charlie Brusco. Charlie, tell me what 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:19.000 acts you presently manage. 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:24.200 I managed Styx, I managed Collective Soul. I managed the 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.960 Outlaws in Blackhawk. I managed the Marshall Tucker Band. I 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:33.479 managed Don Felder, I managed Tim Montana. I managed Edwin McCain. 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:38.560 I now manage Dave Mason. I managed Nancy Wilson from 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.560 Heart and and her and her Heart situation, her heart 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.640 band and I manage UH Poison and and UH and 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.520 Brett Michaels I managed, I managed Heart or not Heart 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.960 but but Nancy and UH and Poison. I managed with 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.600 Bruce Floor from our red Light LA office. 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:02.240 Okay, how does one person manage all those people? 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:07.639 I have a great staff I have. I have people 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.640 that have been with me from anywhere from probably six 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:17.400 to ten years or twelve years or longer. And Cindy 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.800 that you've met my wife, she's uh, she's involved in 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.600 I have all the because I'm at red Light, I 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.600 have all the the red light support stuff too. Even 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:33.400 though we have multiple offices all over the place, we 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:38.479 red light red light moves pretty well together. We we 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.720 we we share some different things that whenever we need them. 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.600 Okay, let's there's a lot of stuff there. How did 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:46.240 you end up managing Dave Mason? 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.840 Just started managing Dave? I got a call from Dave's 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.960 agent at Uta and and Dave had worked a couple 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.400 of years ago with maybe a year ago with Marshall 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.000 Tucker Band, and the shows were great, and you know, 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:09.000 Dave's a I'm listen, I'm also a fanboy a bit. 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.800 So I'm a huge Traffic fan and I'm a huge 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.520 Dave Mason fan. So when I get the chance of 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.640 the opportunity to work with somebody that I also like, 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.000 you know, go back in their to their history. And 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:26.760 interesting enough, with the first meeting that I had with 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:32.720 Dave and his wife, I mean Dave predates, which is 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.880 hard to do, predates me in the early days, and 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:39.399 it was fascinating for me to just sit and talk 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.520 to him about how because I'd heard all of this 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.240 over the years and everything like that. But but how 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:51.480 when I was a kid sixteen years old listening to 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:55.320 to Traffic and you know, alone together and all of 0:02:55.360 --> 0:03:00.520 that era, Dave was in England and from my time 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.280 with with with Bad Company and Paul Rodgers and Simon 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:05.560 Kirk and all those guys. I had always heard about 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.120 this thing of how they all listened to blues records 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:13.680 and that's how like where they developed from. And at 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.000 the time that he was starting to have hits and 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.280 things going on, I was a young kid in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.040 and I was listening to stacks and you know, I 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.480 wasn't listening to blues stuff, but I was listening to 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.000 my first, my first musical kind of stuff, except for 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.480 my listening to my sister's Elvis records, which I wasn't 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:38.400 really that that that into. But the Temptations and the 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.520 four Tops and the you know, and and Sam Moore 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.600 and Sam and Dave and I mean all of that stuff. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:47.720 That that's the stuff that I heard because there was 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.880 a radio station in Pittsburgh called Whammo and that all 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.120 they played was R and B stuff, and it was 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.120 it was a little bit before AM radio turned to 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:02.040 FM radio and we started getting all the FM radio 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.640 music stuff and everything like that. I was listening to 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:08.600 stuff when I was, you know, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:13.720 I had a band, and you know, I grew up 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.960 on that kind of stuff. Well, A funny thing was 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.000 is the other night when when when Dave was in 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:23.560 town in Atlanta. The keyboard player for Dave is Mark 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:28.080 Stein from the Vanilla Fudge And really I went and 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:30.719 as one of the encores, they do you Keep Me 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:32.800 Hanging On? And I went up to mark Stein afterwards 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:34.360 and I said, I had a band when I was 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.000 in high school and the toughest thing that we had 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.520 to do was learn you Keep Me Hanging On because 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:41.800 we had a ham and Bee three organ But but 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.080 you know, nobody could play like you and nobody could 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.520 sing like you. But we had to do it because 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.440 it was one of the biggest hits, you know, of 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.359 all time. It was. It's interesting, I mean, it's really interesting. 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:57.960 So Dave makes contact with you, how do you make 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.280 it agreement to manage Dave? And what can you do 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.720 for Dave that hasn't been done previously. 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:11.000 I I don't know what exactly I can do, but 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:16.280 I can. I can try and get him better quality 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.960 of shows. I can try and get him on tours. 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.000 I can. He's got a book coming out. We're gonna 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:28.080 interface with him on on getting the book release he's got. 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:33.680 I'm I'm not a manager that that throws out all 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.760 kinds of promises of things that I know are are 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:42.960 kind of out of reach. I mean heritage artists having 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.360 having great music, which a lot of them still make 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:51.280 great music, but getting that music out it doesn't have 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.520 the path that it had when we were growing up, 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.200 where it was on the radio. There isn't for sticks 0:05:56.240 --> 0:06:00.159 and for for you know, uh, for Dave Mason, for 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.360 a lot of artists like that, there's they get tremendous 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.120 amount of radio play, but they but the radio that 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.080 plays them won't play their new music. They they'll they'll 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.880 play all their hits. But that you know, it's a 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.960 problem that we've all had. But the opposite of that 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:22.039 problem is is that if they're great live, the live business, 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.159 as you know, and you've said in all of your stuff, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.560 I mean, the live business is probably as healthy as 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.560 it's ever been. You know, uh that that you know 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:32.280 that that any of us remember. 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.359 Just because you recently signed him, did Dave have a 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.760 manager before you or is he self managed? 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:41.960 He's had a couple of like he's had a couple 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:47.200 of managers before me, and it's it's and he did 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.120 some of the stuff himself. But I mean just about 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.039 everybody that I deal with has had a number of 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.240 managers before, and I try, I try not to get 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.599 into who managed them or what they do or anything 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:04.880 like that, you know. I mean Styx has had three managers. 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.040 They had Derek Sutton, who was the first manager they had, 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.920 They had Irving for a short time, pe'er Irving and 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.280 Howard for a short time period, and then they had me. 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.280 So that's probably the artist that I have that's had 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:19.280 the least amount of managers, if you want to know 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:19.800 the truth. 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:26.120 Okay, So let's say when someone comes to you to 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:30.480 potentially manage them, is it usually a competition between you 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:35.720 and other managers or do they know they want you? 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:40.480 Most of the time. Looking down my list of artists 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:45.880 that I manage, most of them approached me. It's some 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.000 in some way, shape or form. Okay. 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:55.280 So with these heritage acts, is the focus primarily on 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:59.520 getting better live gigs or what else can you do 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.520 with these acts? As you say, the odds of new 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.680 music being played on the radio is very low. 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.640 Well, I'm I'm you know. Sticks A few years ago 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.640 Tommy came to me and was like, you know we're 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.320 gonna I got some with the hand made a record 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.560 in fourteen years. And he came to me and he said, 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.360 I've got these ideas and songs in my head and 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.560 everything like that. And I said, that's great, but you know, 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.120 it's very limited what we can do with anything out there. 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.400 But the one the only thing that I would say 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.760 is is that if you're going to make new music 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.760 the I'm not an A and R person, but i'm 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.880 your manager. If you want some guidance, try and make 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:46.680 it sound like Sticks. Don't try and be cool, because 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.720 nobody gives a shit if you're cool. They they want that. 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:55.600 They they want to hear more Sticks. And and you know, 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.800 you know, make sure that it's great. You're you're a 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.840 great live band. Make sure it's songs that you'll be 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:03.840 able to play live. I mean that that you know, 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.680 And we're not going out on the road and when 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.160 we're going out and we're playing the amphitheaters or the 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.840 arenas or wherever we're playing, we're not going out and 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:17.200 playing six new songs in a set, because that's not 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:18.920 what the people and you you know this, and I 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:20.520 know this, that's not what the people that are coming 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.320 to see the shows are paying for, and when you 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.240 don't give them what they're paying for, they'll stop coming. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.480 Okay, So how did you get sticks? And what was 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.160 the status of sticks when you got them? 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:44.400 Uh? Uh? I I was managing Tommy Shaw. 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.200 Wait wait wait wait, how were you managing Tommy Shaw? 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.080 Tommy Shaw had just come out of Damn Yankees, and 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.160 I was actually at the time, I was. I was. 0:09:55.920 --> 0:10:00.439 I was involved with with Irving and and uh and 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.160 Pace and all that in my promotion company. I was 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:11.480 doing shows. I was involved in developing Lakewood in Atlanta, 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.559 and I was the I was the buyer for Lakewood 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.040 at the time, and Damn Yankees had played Lakewood on 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.679 a Damn Yankees Bad Company package the Amphitheater. There twelve 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.800 thousand people. And I wasn't I wasn't a great Damn 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.000 Yankees fan, but I was obviously a huge Bad Company fan. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:31.880 And I happened to be out catching the end of 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:36.559 the Bad Company set and they all of a sudden 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:40.320 they played Renegade and I was like, wow, man, and 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.680 the reaction was off the charts. So a couple of 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:49.600 years later, Damn Yankees is in a perious position with 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.600 with Warner Brothers that have made a record Warners doesn't 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.839 really give a shit about the record that they're They're 0:10:55.920 --> 0:11:00.760 arguing back and forth, and Tommy and Jack Blades decided 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:02.600 that they wanted to try and do some other stuff, 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.600 and Tommy threw some people that we knew and everything 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:10.840 like that got introduced to me and I started managing Tommy, 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.439 and then in turn we started doing something that was 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.400 called Shaw Blades, which was Tommy, Tommy Shaw and Jack Blades. 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.640 So when we were doing the beginning of the of 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.160 the Tommy stuff and we weren't talking, there was never 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.520 any mention of anything with me and Tommy in the 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.000 in the opening stuff about Styx. 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:30.840 I. 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:36.520 Actually was not really a Sticks fan. I uh, you know. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.520 I came up with the Outlaws and Leonard skinnerd and 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.800 the Allman Brothers band and all that kind of stuff. 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.240 And Sti's was that big band from Chicago that had 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.920 all those kind of songs, but they weren't and they 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.360 weren't what I would say in my wheelhouse at the time, 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:58.920 So we uh, Tommy was Universal Records had all of 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:04.040 the Stick all of this catalog except for Lady. They 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:08.640 didn't own Lady because Lady was recorded on Wooden Nickel 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.160 Records in the in the beginning. All right, So they 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.880 were putting out a second Greatest Hits record, which they 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.640 could do with or without the band's okay, all right, 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:20.920 But they came to the band, and they came and 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.120 they wanted to have Lady on the on the thing, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.840 but they didn't want to license this song from from 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.840 Wooden Nickel. Hence the the the thing that most bands 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:34.800 fans know this, and I'm sure you know this to Bob. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:39.160 Bands do re records after their re record contracts or 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.200 they're clear of re record problems with the record company. 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.520 Everybody you know has their own versions that they do 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.319 of the songs later. So they're gonna do Lady. So 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.480 Tommy comes to me and he says, hey, I got 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.000 a call from Jay and he wants me to he 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.920 wants me to come to uh to Chicago, and we're 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.560 gonna they're gonna re record Lady. And I said, okay, 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.400 the Universal is going to put this thing out. I said, Okay, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.920 that all makes sense. I said, but but you know, 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.520 I didn't think you guys got along. And he goes, oh, 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:12.640 he goes, you know it was really weird. He goes. 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.000 He called me and he goes, you know, we hadn't 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:18.880 talked in ten years or fifteen, twelve, whatever amount of 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:20.800 years it was. We hadn't talked in all this time. 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.160 And he said, but he goes, it was like, none 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.000 of this shit that went on in the past was there. 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.360 He goes, it was just like two old friends talking. 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:30.880 And I was like, well, there's there's going to be 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.360 three more friends when you go up there, because there 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.480 was there was five guys in the band, right, And 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.839 he goes yeah. I go, well, hopefully that'll all work out. 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:39.920 And I go, so okay, and he said yeah, and 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.120 they said, you know, I can bring Genie, which is 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.839 now Tommy's wife, which was Tommy's girlfriend at the time, 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.640 because we're going to all go to dinner afterwards. And 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.720 I was like, well, okay, Son's great. And he went 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:56.560 off to Chicago and the next morning he called me 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:01.120 on the phone and he said, he said, listen. He goes, 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.600 you have no idea. He goes, I know that you 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.320 have this this thing because of different stuff that I've 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.160 said about you know, who gets I don't care about sticks, 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.000 and I'm you know, he goes, but he goes, when 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:17.000 we started playing that, we started playing Lady, he said, 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.840 it just all sounded so great. And he goes, and 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.080 everybody was in a great mood. He goes, we all 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.680 got along, and the wives got along, and the girlfriend whatever, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.400 everybody got along. And he said. We went to dinner, 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:32.560 and he said, and at dinner, somebody said, wouldn't it 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.840 be great if we if we did a tour? And 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:43.440 I said okay, and he said, well, perbade him. Would 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:47.560 anybody give a shit if Sticks came back out and toured? 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.880 And my wife was in the room, and I said, 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:57.360 Stick's doing a tour and Cindy said, and I was like, 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.640 I got I'm gonna have to do some check and 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.360 I really, you don't know what it would mean. And 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.320 my wife said everybody in my high school would go 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:09.840 to that show. And I was like, really, okay. So 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:15.040 I called some promoter friends of mine, and at the time, 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.480 Jack Boyle was alive, and I think I called I 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:20.960 think I called Don Law. I mean, it's kind of 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.320 similar to when I made all the calls originally about 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.080 Leonard Skinner. When putting Skinner together in eighty seven, I 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.320 reached out the people that I trusted there were ill 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:35.160 probably called Arnie and Jerry in Chicago, and everybody was like, yeah, 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:39.560 that sounds really good. So I also thought, okay, there 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.960 has to be a great package that goes with this. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.440 So we started talking about the one the tour, and 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.040 one of the things that Tommy said that he went 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.600 back to the guys and said, all right, I'm going 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:56.480 to be in. But if I'm in, my manager, Charlie 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:01.720 Bresco manages us and he runs the show. And uh 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.520 so he said, Tommy said, I talked to them about it. 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.080 They agreed, they want to have a meeting in Chicago. 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.600 Can you come to Chicago next week? So I flew 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:17.600 to Chicago. And you know, I mean, honest to God's 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:19.840 truth in my in my promoter days in when I 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.120 was managing Skinnered in the early nineties, Jay Why had 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.960 called me to go see his solo band, and I 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:27.800 think I told him I was going to show up 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:32.120 at the show. And I never showed up, but but 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.560 we we sat in a room. We we we we 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.280 went to dinner at the at the at a at 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.440 an Italian restaurant in downtown Chicago. We went across the 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.800 street to the to the uh. To the Whitehall Hotel 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.000 where I was staying. We had I had a sweet upstairs. 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.240 We went upstairs. We all sat down and we started talking, 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:53.280 and they said, what can we do? And I said, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.920 from what I've been able to ascertain, you know, we'll 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:00.920 We'll get we'll get an agent. Well, we'll uh and 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.400 we'll you know, we we'll do We'll do amphitheaters, we'll 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.520 do you know, I think we can do forty or 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.720 fifty shows next year if everybody will commit to it. 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.840 And everybody kind of like said, yeah, okay. And the 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:17.960 first tour was done with absolutely no interference from from 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:22.680 anybody at all. And the first tour, everywhere we went 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.440 basically sold out. I mean, we did twenty three thousand 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.920 people in Saint Louis and you know, twenty thousand people. 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.040 You know. We did two nights in Chicago at the 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.760 at the endoor, at the Arena, I mean, and it 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.840 was great, it was it was wonderful. And then, of course, 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.879 you know, as as things go, the next tour, some 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.560 ghosts came out and things started to go back to 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:48.520 the to the you know, a little bit out of 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:52.040 the way, and and at one point Tommy and j why. 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.639 Came to me and said, we got a new album 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.399 coming out, Dennis does, Dennis can't tour. We want to 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.120 go out there without them. And I said, all right, 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.600 if we do this, you know, it could work. It 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:07.800 might not work, but you know, if you guys, if 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:09.760 you guys, I'm not going to go backwards. We're not 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.200 going to go do this for six months and then 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:14.440 and then turn around and go back because Dennis will 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.080 just be you know, Dennis will have more power than 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.720 he wants. And and uh, and we you know, the 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:22.879 three of us decided we were going to do it, 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:28.840 and off we went. And it's uh, twenty twenty five years. 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:33.800 You know, we've been touring. We've done probably twenty five 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.280 hundred shows, and and we love we love what we do. 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:42.520 We have a great we have a great time. Okay, 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:47.240 how did you tell Dennis he was out? Oh? I 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.720 called him on the phone and told him and and 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.639 the reaction was not good. And he said to me, 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:54.840 you know that no one will come to see them 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.320 without me, and I go, we'll see, we'll find out. 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:00.560 And then there was a loss suit and then the 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:05.320 lawsuit got settled, and you know, and and and it's 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.919 from I'm pretty sure of this. I don't think me, 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.879 Tommy or Jay, why have ever spoken to Dennis since 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.520 I since I let him go. I don't think the 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.080 three of us have ever had a word with Dennis 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.280 and a good word or a bad word. Nothing, Okay. 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:27.560 Conventional wisdom was that Dennis was acting out and the 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:28.960 other members didn't like it. 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:33.600 Is that true, Dennis, Dennis just had a You know, Dennis, 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.360 Dennis likes to be in control of everything, and he 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.560 I guess during the years of the early days, he 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.000 he got more and more power. He wrote, he wrote 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.200 big songs. I mean, he was you know, there's there's there, 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.240 there's there's those kind of struggles and ship like that 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.280 that goes on with bands and just about every band. 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:52.359 I mean, let me tell you something. You know, Keith 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.200 and Mick ain't kissing and hugging on on every night 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:00.200 about everything, and and they've stayed together all those years. 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.720 I mean, you know it's it. You gotta you gotta know, 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:08.600 you gotta know, you know where you're, how you can 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.719 how you can do this together, because uh, you know 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:17.240 it otherwise you go. You know, it's like the Fleetwood song, 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:19.199 you go your own way. I mean, that's you know, 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:23.879 that's that's it, that's it, and you know sometimes people 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:28.840 try and it doesn't work. We found an incredible talent 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:34.399 and we we actually knew it. We auditioned uh for 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:39.000 Dennis's position. We auditioned a number of a number of people, 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:46.440 and the least like Dennis, the least sounding like Dennis, 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:51.480 the least Dennis because we we actually had people come 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.719 in that people suggested to us. And we did the 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.879 the auditions up at Tommy's house when he lived up 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.200 in the top of the Hollywood Hills. And when when 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.400 we did those, there were guys that were like they 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.080 were in cover bands. They were they were doing Dennis 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.280 and cover bands and they were pretty convincing how they 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:15.320 did their stuff. But when after Lawrence Gowan did his thing, 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.120 we went we went into Tommy's house and the three 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:20.840 of us looked at each other and they said, what 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:22.960 do you think? And I said, if you want to 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:26.719 if all the guys that we had here before, if 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.480 you want somebody to be Dennis, we get one of 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:31.840 those guys. If you want to chart a new course 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:34.480 and you want to you want to have a guy 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:38.320 that that's that's alltra talented and has had his own 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.000 career in Canada and all that stuff, and you know, 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:45.159 and is not Dennis. That that's my vote, you know, 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:47.159 I got, I got one vote out of three. You 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.399 two Stoll, you know, call the shots and and you know, 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.280 but that's that's my opinion. And it's been my opinion 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:55.600 from day one. And let me tell you something the 0:21:55.640 --> 0:22:00.800 first tour that we did with Dennis in nineteen ninety six, 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.960 that those shows were those shows were great. I mean 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:07.200 they were they were really great. It was a it 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:11.800 really what brought what took it apart was the same 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:13.439 thing that took it apart the first time. It was 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.600 personality conflicts. And they they just didn't they didn't want 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:18.080 to be on the same bus together, they didn't want 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:19.480 to be in the same cars together. They didn't want 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:22.520 to be and you can't you can't fix that. I mean, 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:23.960 you can't fix personalities. 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:29.560 Okay, so you had a new member, you go on 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:32.879 the first tour. Is it all smooth or do some 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.399 people react to, hey, Dennis isn't in the band? 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:39.280 Oh? Yeah, well there was, there was, there was. That 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:42.240 was the one thing that we were least worried about 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:44.320 was we knew there was a crowd out there that 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:46.800 would be that would want to listen to the to 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.159 the Stick stuff, and if we did it, great, it 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:54.080 would it would be great. But all the chirpin and 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:56.399 all the fan stuff that you know there, Yeah, there 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:58.800 were battle lines, there were two sides, there were all that, 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:02.440 but we we knew all together that that we had 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:06.760 we the fans, the people that were coming would react. 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:11.800 And then my sense of everything was was we got 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:14.760 to get out and we can't play fairs and festivals 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:17.960 that we're playing and we can't play you know, smaller 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:20.359 theaters and everything like that. We got to get out 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:22.919 on a show that'll that'll put a lot of people 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:25.840 out there, so that so that we can get in 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:27.760 front of a lot of people, so so the bunch 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:30.160 of fans can come and even if we only convince 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:33.359 half of them, instead of convincing you know, a thousand 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:35.840 out of two thousand people, we're convincing five out of 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:40.040 ten thousand people. And there had there had always been 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:48.920 a U challenge that had never really on a tour 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:53.879 situation had never happened like Rio and Sticks were always 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:58.800 kind of in competition. And I went after Rio to 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:01.480 do a tour at Sticks, and I got House of 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:03.600 Blues to put up the money for a whole tour 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:08.080 and an amphitheater tour and everything like that. And I 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:14.600 approached Tomkin Solo that manages Rio and and we both 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.960 felt that it was going to be great. And we've 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:23.840 probably done four hundred, four hundred and fifty shows together 0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:28.199 or something like that. And and we the two the 0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:31.040 two bands. Everybody, everybody gets along. That's the other thing 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.600 about Stix, I mean Sticks, Probably of all the bands 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:37.760 that I've ever been involved with, they probably the bus 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:41.679 is probably the most fun bus to be on because 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:44.640 they're they're they're all they all get along. They get 0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:45.359 along great. 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:55.639 So when you did the first tour with Styx with 0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:59.200 House to Blues Concerts, which was an independent operation. 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:02.960 At that point, Amarciano, Alex Odges, Larry Vallen, it was 0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:06.879 a great time. Right, So how do you decide on 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:12.639 paying billing with Gonsolo. It's been across the board fifty 0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:16.960 to fifty. We're partners and we then and let me 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:19.600 tell you something else that's interesting that we do. Okay, 0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:24.680 when we toured together, you know how you got somebody 0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:27.919 that's got a referee shirt on the production manager that 0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:31.800 works for the tour doesn't work for either of us. 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:35.560 He works for the tour because because if it was 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:38.639 our production manager, he would be jockeying for everything for us. 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:41.000 If it was our production manager, he would be jockeying, 0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:45.119 jockeying for everything for them. That's it's it's neutral. We 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:48.600 had to have a neutral person in the middle. So 0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:51.840 how do you decide who closes? Tom and I work 0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:53.760 that out, and then we go back to the band 0:25:53.800 --> 0:25:55.560 and they go, what the hell are they too me? 0:25:56.240 --> 0:25:58.840 You know, and then we go like, just well, listen, 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:00.760 we're going to do this again two years or three 0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:02.840 or four years from now, and you can close that 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:06.359 city that time. Chicago we always close. Saint Louis they 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.920 always close, Atlanta we always. I mean, there's some that 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:13.040 that that are basically you know that that we we 0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:16.640 naturally do it. And then we just go like and actually, 0:26:17.160 --> 0:26:19.600 you know, in the in the first few years, the 0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:21.919 first couple of times that we did it and there 0:26:22.040 --> 0:26:24.919 wasn't that was a little bit tougher. Now it's like, 0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:27.000 I don't we don't care, you know, play you know, 0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:33.400 who who closes is the most inconsequential thing. Man my opinion, 0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.359 and my band knows this, and some of my band 0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:39.840 members have come to the same conclusion. If it's a 0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:41.960 three act show, which our shows always are in the 0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:44.800 summer in the amphitheaters, the middle slot's the best slot 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:45.480 on the show. 0:26:46.840 --> 0:26:48.560 Because it's an aged audience. 0:26:48.840 --> 0:26:52.680 Closing is an egos situation and is the middle of 0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:57.879 the best because people are still awake and aren't leaving. Bob, 0:26:58.560 --> 0:27:04.800 everybody's there. Nobody's leaving. Everybody the people. Everybody's not there 0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:07.720 when the first act goes on, and no matter who closes, 0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:09.119 there are people leaving. 0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:13.760 So are there any young Sticks fans or is it 0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:16.000 all people from the original era? 0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:19.880 Oh? No, no, no, there's there's there's a that we 0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:21.919 We wouldn't be where we are and we wouldn't be 0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:24.200 doing the stuff that we're doing if it wasn't for 0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:28.320 parents bringing their kids to shows, and then kids coming 0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:30.960 to the shows without their parents as they growled. We've 0:27:30.960 --> 0:27:33.320 got we've got fans that have been coming now for 0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:36.320 the last twenty years that came to the shows when 0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:39.040 they were twelve or fifteen with their parents and now 0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:41.480 they're thirty five and they're they're like, they're you know, 0:27:41.480 --> 0:27:42.520 they're bringing their kids. 0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:48.800 So it appears that Sticks goes out every summer, is 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:49.359 that true? 0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:53.320 We we work, We work regularly, but we don't do 0:27:53.400 --> 0:27:57.520 the amphitheaters every year. We do the amphitheaters every few years. 0:27:57.840 --> 0:28:02.040 We have way more places to play and things that 0:28:02.080 --> 0:28:05.399 we like to do. Like I'll give you an example. 0:28:05.400 --> 0:28:10.199 There's a there's a twenty six hundred seat theater in 0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:15.080 Phoenix that most bands hate playing because it's circular, it's 0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:17.960 in the room, it's not the celebrity. Celebrity. Yeah. Yeah, 0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:21.720 so so most people, you know, most people do everything 0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:25.560 that they can to not play the celebrity. Stix loves 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:27.800 playing the celebrity We you know, we've done as many 0:28:27.880 --> 0:28:33.120 as three nights there because the fan reaction and the 0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:36.760 fan kind of like that. You know, you know a 0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:39.440 lot of our fans we see them at multiple shows 0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:42.160 all the time, so you know, it's it's a you know, 0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:45.640 it's a it's a it's a you know, all bands 0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:49.400 have that. But you know, we we like certain things 0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:54.160 that we do and we like it's pretty obvious from 0:28:54.560 --> 0:28:57.080 from what our touring history is. There's there's there's a 0:28:57.120 --> 0:29:00.520 lot of artists that we like to tour with. We're 0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:03.880 out with Foreigner this summer. We love them. We brought 0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:08.240 John Waite back, who has done stuff with us before. Rio, 0:29:08.400 --> 0:29:10.960 we work with a lot. We worked with Joan Jet. 0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:15.400 Joan was great. Tesla has always been a favorite of ours, 0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:17.560 and it's really kind of like a chemistry of how 0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:20.080 it works with the crowd and then how it works 0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:23.800 backstage also how everybody kind of gets along, because if 0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:26.120 you can't get along with sticks, there's a problem. 0:29:27.520 --> 0:29:29.720 So there's no issue of overexposure. 0:29:31.800 --> 0:29:35.960 I haven't seen it yet, Okay, So Stix is on 0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:38.960 the road. They have this fan base. There was a 0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:43.120 new record. Is there anything you can do beyond the 0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:48.000 live shows to grow the image or impact or ticket sales? 0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:54.560 As Sticks, we keep an active social media stuff out there. 0:29:56.000 --> 0:29:58.680 The record, I mean, listen the first record when we 0:29:58.720 --> 0:30:02.160 did it, and I think it was twenty sixteen, and 0:30:02.320 --> 0:30:05.000 they they hadn't done anything. I mean, I know, it 0:30:05.160 --> 0:30:10.480 sounds pale in comparison to three triple platinum records in 0:30:10.480 --> 0:30:12.680 a row and everything like that, But in today's market, 0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:16.280 that record sounds sound scanned like one hundred and forty 0:30:16.360 --> 0:30:19.200 thousand records or something like that that you know, and 0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:23.320 our last record that we did sound scanned like sixty 0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:29.520 or seventy thousand records. So it's it's it's and we 0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:32.560 play some of the songs. We play a few of 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:35.600 the songs live, and if we do an evening with 0:30:35.840 --> 0:30:40.840 Stick show where we do two sets, then we'll play 0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:43.280 a little bit more of the of the new stuff. 0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:46.000 And the fans love it because, quite frankly, the album sound, 0:30:46.480 --> 0:30:51.400 the material sounds like vintage sticks. They use a lot 0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:53.840 of the same kind of recording techniques and all that 0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:56.720 stuff that they used in the early days to keep 0:30:56.760 --> 0:31:04.320 that authentic kind of sound. What about sponsorship, Uh, if 0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:07.480 it's out, you know, it's not something that we seek 0:31:07.520 --> 0:31:10.080 and and and they you know, we we have our 0:31:10.120 --> 0:31:13.400 own beer. We have we have a we have a 0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:17.560 beer called Omama that's brewed by by a company in Pittsburgh, 0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:20.040 and it's a little bit of a playoff of the 0:31:20.440 --> 0:31:25.200 I mean, one of the biggest sports tie ins that 0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:29.920 there is is Styx's song Renegade and the Pittsburgh Steelers. 0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:32.160 I mean, you know, if you go to if you 0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:35.520 go to a Pittsburgh Steelers game, that's a that's at 0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:38.960 their home field. Sometime during that game when they need 0:31:39.000 --> 0:31:42.120 a defensive stop, they're there. You're you're gonna you're gonna 0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:44.320 hear Renegade and the crowd is going to just be 0:31:44.480 --> 0:31:48.080 having tiles waven and all that stuff. And we've got 0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:50.840 a really special relationship with them. So we do have 0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:54.560 a beer that that that's done significantly well as a 0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:56.640 as a as a craft beer and everything like that. 0:31:56.720 --> 0:31:59.360 But but we don't we don't really we don't look 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:03.560 for sponsors and you know, we don't we we we 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:06.280 if if the right one came in, would we would 0:32:06.280 --> 0:32:09.640 we look at it. Yeah, but it's it's not something 0:32:09.680 --> 0:32:12.840 that we're you know, we're we're we're we we know 0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:15.520 what we know what we we know how our mercher, 0:32:15.720 --> 0:32:17.520 we know how to do our merch. We know how 0:32:17.600 --> 0:32:20.040 to do our our live our live shows, and we 0:32:20.160 --> 0:32:22.280 know how to we know how to do it in 0:32:22.360 --> 0:32:24.080 the in the fashion that we like to do it. 0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:27.760 That that's probably why we keep doing it. What about privates, 0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:30.960 Oh we yeah, we that we that was an early 0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:34.360 that first time we did that, it was shell shock. 0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:38.360 Now you know we we we do privates when when uh, 0:32:38.600 --> 0:32:41.880 when they make sense and usually it has to do 0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:44.000 with it it routes well or something like that, and 0:32:44.640 --> 0:32:47.160 some of them are some of them are surprising, and 0:32:47.280 --> 0:32:51.120 some of them are privates. Okay, how'd you put Leonard 0:32:51.120 --> 0:33:02.960 skinnerd back together? Uh? Nineteen eighty seven April, well, probably 0:33:03.080 --> 0:33:07.040 January of nineteen eighty seven. I got a call from 0:33:07.080 --> 0:33:14.240 Amat Urdigan and Ahmat said, Charlie, uh, aren't you aren't 0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:18.160 you friends with Gary Rossington? And I said, yeah, I've 0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:20.920 been friends with Gary Rossington since, you know, since nineteen 0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:24.960 seventy four. And he said, he said, him and his 0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:28.080 wife Dale have this have this album, and atlantic's putting 0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:31.480 it out and he he needs some he needs somebody, 0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:33.600 and he goes I was talking to him about it 0:33:33.680 --> 0:33:36.400 the other day and he said, he said, you know, uh, 0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:39.160 I brought your name up. And he said, I don't 0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:42.360 know if you Charlie and I are friends. I don't know, 0:33:42.520 --> 0:33:44.680 you know, I don't know, and he said so, so 0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:48.360 he gave me Gary's number, which Gary with at the time, 0:33:48.520 --> 0:33:52.880 was living in and h up in Jackson, how Wyoming. 0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:55.800 And I called Gary up and I said, hey, Gary, 0:33:56.680 --> 0:33:59.120 what's going on? And he said, uh, you know, you know, 0:33:59.240 --> 0:34:01.520 I got to get a manager. I got this record 0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:03.480 coming out and Dale and I are really excited about it. 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:05.560 Send me the record. I listened to the record. I 0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:09.279 was I was promoting at the time, I UH with 0:34:09.719 --> 0:34:13.320 Alex Cooley and Peter Conlin in Atlanta, and we were 0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:16.319 we were doing shows together, and I wasn't really doing 0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:19.520 any real management stuff. But just like I mean, the 0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:23.680 history with me and Gary goes back to you know, 0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:32.640 the before Sweet Home Alabama was out. So uh, I said, uh, 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:38.080 all right, Uh. I listened to the record. Dale sounded great. 0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:41.400 It sounded like a cross between Rossington Collins and and 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:45.680 Uh and skinnern and Uh. And so Gary, Gary came, 0:34:45.800 --> 0:34:47.560 Gary and Dale came to Atlanta and we met and 0:34:47.640 --> 0:34:50.640 I said, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna do this. And 0:34:51.640 --> 0:34:54.239 I got them. I had Alex and Peter and I 0:34:54.360 --> 0:34:57.960 had had a show at the Fox in Atlanta with Kansas. 0:34:58.440 --> 0:35:02.440 And the Kansas show was a about two thirds made. 0:35:02.480 --> 0:35:04.440 It was already on sale, it was about two thirds 0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:07.680 sold out. So I said the I said to I 0:35:07.760 --> 0:35:09.920 said to Alex and Peter, I said, you know, just 0:35:10.040 --> 0:35:14.040 the name Rossington on the because that's what the name 0:35:14.080 --> 0:35:16.480 of Gary's band, just the name of that on on 0:35:16.640 --> 0:35:18.880 ninety six Rock will sell out the rest of the 0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:23.120 Kansas State. Let's put his band on as the opening act. Okay, great, 0:35:23.200 --> 0:35:26.879 So so we put them on the show. So it's 0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:30.280 you know, the show. So as soon as we announced Rossington, 0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:32.200 like in the next couple of days, the show at 0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:35.040 the Fox ended up completely selling out, sold out in advance. 0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:39.280 So we went to uh, uh, we're at the Fox 0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:42.040 and more upstairs in one of the dressing rooms up 0:35:42.080 --> 0:35:43.920 and the upstairs, and somebody comes in and I'm in 0:35:44.000 --> 0:35:46.320 with Gary and Dale and they're nerves they're they're actually 0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:48.520 nervous because they're back to play in the Fox where 0:35:48.640 --> 0:35:51.680 the three nights were recorded for the for the Skinnered 0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:54.040 record and Rossington Collins had sold the building out and 0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:56.200 everything like that. And here they are coming back and 0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:59.360 they're and they're they're playing special guests to Kansas and 0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:02.160 I and and somebody comes up and said, uh, there's 0:36:02.320 --> 0:36:05.239 there's there's two guys at the back door and they 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:07.719 say that they they're good friends at Gary's and and 0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:10.239 uh and they they heard that you're back here. They 0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:12.200 said for you again because they want to say hi 0:36:12.280 --> 0:36:15.560 to Gary. I got okay, so I got downstairs I 0:36:15.640 --> 0:36:17.000 go to the back door of the Fox and I 0:36:17.040 --> 0:36:20.640 open the door and it's Billy Powell and Leon Wilkerson 0:36:20.680 --> 0:36:24.360 from all Right standing there. Hey man, we want to 0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:28.800 see Gary. And I was like, Uh, okay, they're upstairs. 0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:31.520 They're nervous as hell. Let us go up. Let us 0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:33.320 go up and say him. So they go up and 0:36:33.360 --> 0:36:35.240 they all go into a room and they start talking 0:36:35.320 --> 0:36:39.320 and everything like that. And and Gary had said to 0:36:39.400 --> 0:36:41.920 me early on, you know, I don't want to revisit 0:36:42.000 --> 0:36:44.359 all the skinner and stuff, and you know, I want 0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:47.439 the focus to be on on on the Rossington band 0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:50.800 and everything like that. So I go up to the 0:36:50.920 --> 0:36:52.880 dressing room and they're getting ready to go to the 0:36:52.920 --> 0:36:56.240 stage and everything like that. And Gary pulls me aside 0:36:56.280 --> 0:36:59.200 and he goes, we're gonna we're gonna go when we 0:36:59.320 --> 0:37:02.000 do the end, we're going to go back up and 0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:04.160 I'm going to bring Billy and Leon up for Sweet 0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:09.000 Home Alabama. And I was like, you haven't rehearsed, right, 0:37:09.040 --> 0:37:11.239 He goes, we all know it. He goes, he goes, 0:37:11.280 --> 0:37:15.279 it'll go, it'll go over, It'll be great. And they 0:37:15.400 --> 0:37:19.200 did that, and the place basically went to a different level. 0:37:19.239 --> 0:37:23.320 It totally exploded. So we all we were all on this, 0:37:23.840 --> 0:37:27.360 you know, high and from the show and all that, 0:37:27.440 --> 0:37:30.120 and we went to a club, the bar, kind of 0:37:30.200 --> 0:37:32.600 place that we used to hang out at when the 0:37:32.640 --> 0:37:35.239 Skinner days and all that stuff. And we went back 0:37:35.280 --> 0:37:39.600 there and it's one thirty in the morning and I'm 0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:42.360 going to go home and Billy Powell comes over to 0:37:42.440 --> 0:37:44.920 me and he goes, hey, Charlie, you know what the 0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:50.080 October twentieth is this year. I go, yeah, Billy, it's 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:54.640 plane crash. No, no, no, no, tenth year. We need 0:37:54.760 --> 0:37:58.040 to do something on October twentieth. And I was like, 0:37:58.120 --> 0:38:00.759 if you talk to Gary about this, goes, Gary won't 0:38:00.800 --> 0:38:02.880 talk to us about this. You need to talk to 0:38:03.040 --> 0:38:04.480 him and Dale, and you need to get them to 0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:07.680 do something. We just need to do one show. So 0:38:07.920 --> 0:38:11.080 I was like, okay. So I went back to Gary 0:38:11.120 --> 0:38:15.640 and Dale and I brought it up and Dale we 0:38:15.760 --> 0:38:17.360 when we walked out of the room, she goes, I 0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:19.759 wouldn't bring that up to him again. He doesn't want 0:38:19.760 --> 0:38:21.880 anything to do with it. So I go okay. So 0:38:24.040 --> 0:38:26.840 different things started to percolate and everything like that, and 0:38:26.960 --> 0:38:29.120 all of a sudden Gary called me and he said 0:38:29.920 --> 0:38:32.799 if we did if we did one show, could could 0:38:32.840 --> 0:38:35.120 we could we make some money? And could we also 0:38:35.320 --> 0:38:38.560 put Rossington on the show and I'll play both sets? 0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:41.800 And I said yeah, and he goes, where does it 0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:43.920 make sense to do it? I go, there's only one 0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:45.920 place to do it. He goes where I go to 0:38:45.920 --> 0:38:49.759 the Omni in Atlanta. I go, we'll announce it. It'll 0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:53.680 do fifteen sixteen thousand people. It'll be you know all that, 0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:56.000 but we'll have to rehearse, you know, we'll we'll have 0:38:56.120 --> 0:38:57.719 to get all together and you have to figure out 0:38:58.000 --> 0:38:59.800 who's going to play it and everything at that. So 0:39:00.880 --> 0:39:04.680 we we we we. The next day, I went to 0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:07.080 Alex and Peter and I was like, Hey, we want 0:39:07.120 --> 0:39:10.400 to do a Skinnered reunion thing one day. You know, 0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:15.440 Omni in Atlanta. What do you think? Alex says, couldn't 0:39:15.440 --> 0:39:18.000 we do it October twenty first? And I go, doesn't 0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:20.000 really make a lot of sense. Why He goes, the 0:39:20.160 --> 0:39:25.600 cars are playing, They're they're confirmed. And I was like, 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:30.440 we can't like move that around or no, there couldsendent 0:39:30.560 --> 0:39:32.279 or tour. They're not going to give up that date. 0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:35.640 So I was like, okay, all right, then let's go 0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:38.120 to Birmingham. We'll go to you know, we'll go to 0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:40.480 We'll go to the arena in Birmingham. I don't like 0:39:40.560 --> 0:39:42.920 it as much as I like Atlanta, but well, we'll 0:39:42.960 --> 0:39:49.040 go to Birmingham for one show. Went back and we 0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:51.440 started talking about what we were going to that we 0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:52.800 were going to put it together, and we had that. 0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:55.840 And back then in those days, there were the tip sheets, 0:39:56.000 --> 0:39:57.800 and there was a there was a tip sheet that 0:39:57.840 --> 0:40:00.880 came out of Philadelphia that was Bill Hard. And I 0:40:01.040 --> 0:40:03.120 used to talk to Bill Hard or one of his guys. 0:40:03.200 --> 0:40:05.279 Let me ask you just about when was the last 0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:06.680 time you spoke with Bill Hard? 0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:10.600 Oh? Probably probably probably back around this time. I haven't 0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:13.120 talked to Bill Hard, I think in this century. But 0:40:13.320 --> 0:40:15.560 keep right, good, right, right, all right? So so so 0:40:17.200 --> 0:40:19.920 so that that we were talking about something and they 0:40:20.120 --> 0:40:23.880 they said to me, you know, oh, I was pitching 0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:26.759 him on the Rossington record to get you know, and 0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:28.919 and Ahmitt was going to do ads in the tip 0:40:29.000 --> 0:40:31.800 sheet and all that stuff. And he said, so I 0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:35.040 heard that the ohm it's excited. And he said something 0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:36.719 about you're going to try and do some kind of 0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:38.759 a skinner thing. And I said, yeah, we're gonna We're 0:40:38.760 --> 0:40:45.040 gonna do one show on on the twentieth of uh of, 0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:48.319 you know, And I said, told I'm calling, I'm calling 0:40:48.360 --> 0:40:50.680 around to some promoters and I'm trying. So I started 0:40:50.680 --> 0:40:54.920 calling around the promoters and all the promoters were like, hey, 0:40:54.960 --> 0:40:57.279 don't just do Birmingham do this, DIY do this. So 0:40:57.680 --> 0:41:00.399 I went back to Gary and I said, you know, hey, listen, 0:41:00.560 --> 0:41:03.200 we probably can do ten or twelve or whatever. Why 0:41:03.200 --> 0:41:06.040 don't Why don't we make it make more sense? And he's, 0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:09.880 you know, he said, uh, well, you know you need 0:41:09.960 --> 0:41:12.719 to you need to find certain people. I go, what's that? 0:41:12.840 --> 0:41:14.919 He goes the first one. He goes, I'm not doing 0:41:15.000 --> 0:41:18.560 this unless Ed King is involved. And I go, do 0:41:18.680 --> 0:41:21.640 you have any idea where Ed King is? I I 0:41:21.760 --> 0:41:25.120 heard he's in New Jersey. All right, Ed King had 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:27.759 Ed King wasn't even playing. I mean Ed King was 0:41:27.840 --> 0:41:31.120 in the software business or early tech, you know, tech 0:41:31.239 --> 0:41:35.000 kind of stuff. So I rounded up Ed, I rounded 0:41:35.080 --> 0:41:40.480 up Billy Pile, Leon Artemis. We we got we started 0:41:40.480 --> 0:41:44.399 getting that all together, and then that was all in motion. 0:41:45.080 --> 0:41:46.920 And that was when Bill Hard called me, and I 0:41:47.080 --> 0:41:50.360 had promoters that were gonna, we're all interested in doing it. 0:41:50.800 --> 0:41:54.080 And I had a conversation before I talked to Bill Hard. 0:41:54.120 --> 0:41:57.319 I had a conversation with Bill Graham, and I called 0:41:57.360 --> 0:42:01.239 Bill Graham up on the phone. And Bill Bill was 0:42:01.320 --> 0:42:05.080 always like like, you know, he was always telling me, 0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:08.759 you don't know what. He took me under his wing 0:42:08.880 --> 0:42:10.600 and helped me in all kinds of ways. R at that, 0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:12.919 but he was always you know, giving me the giving 0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:15.560 me a hard time. So I called him up, and 0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:19.760 I said, and he was a massive, massive Leonard Skinnerard 0:42:19.800 --> 0:42:23.040 guy in the day. Ronnie, Ronnie and him were great 0:42:23.120 --> 0:42:26.239 friends Gary everybody they were the Bill Bill was was one, 0:42:26.320 --> 0:42:29.120 you know, was one of their favorite promoters, if not 0:42:29.239 --> 0:42:31.680 their favorite promoter. So I called Bill was one of 0:42:31.719 --> 0:42:33.800 the first guys I called. And Bill said to me, 0:42:35.120 --> 0:42:37.480 are you out of your goddamn mind, don't you know 0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:40.640 there was a plane crash. He said, you can't bring 0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:43.640 back he goes. You can't bring back Leonard Skinnard without 0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:48.160 without Ronnie van Zandt. And I said, Johnny's gonna sing 0:42:48.280 --> 0:42:51.279 he goes. Nobody will care. And I said, so Bill, 0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:54.880 if I I said, Larry Maggot's gonna do. All these 0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:58.880 people were doing cities, you don't want to do San Francisco. No, 0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:01.920 I won't do it. And I said, okay, well, then 0:43:02.080 --> 0:43:05.279 I'll tell you what we won't do San Francisco. If 0:43:05.760 --> 0:43:07.839 we're not going to come in there and have Don 0:43:07.960 --> 0:43:10.200 Fox or somebody else come in and do San Francisco, 0:43:10.520 --> 0:43:12.839 the band respects you too much. And if you feel 0:43:12.920 --> 0:43:16.920 that way, okay. So Bill Graham was kind of written 0:43:17.000 --> 0:43:21.200 out of the tour at that moment. Bill Hard calls 0:43:21.239 --> 0:43:23.120 me up on the phone and we're talking about this thing, 0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:26.800 and this is like, this is after we had the 0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:32.080 lineup that set and he's and I tell Bill Hard, yeah, well, 0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:34.359 actually we're gonna do We're gonna do a bunch of dates. 0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:37.680 We're gonna probably do fifteen twenty. I don't know. We're 0:43:37.680 --> 0:43:42.480 still putting it together. We still talking about the Rossington record. 0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:47.560 Bill Hard on Thursday or Friday of whatever that week was, 0:43:47.640 --> 0:43:51.040 whenever he wrote his Hard report in the notes. Thing 0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:56.040 that he wrote, interesting thing going on in Atlanta. Sounds 0:43:56.160 --> 0:44:01.000 like Charlie Brusco has Gary Rossington all these together, and 0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:04.279 it sounds like around the October we'll see the first 0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:08.799 time we'll see some dates honoring Leonard Skinner all right 0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:13.080 the tip sheet comes out. The tip sheets out. The 0:44:13.239 --> 0:44:15.799 next day or two days after the tip sheet comes out, 0:44:15.960 --> 0:44:18.960 I get a call from Bill Graham and Bill says, 0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:23.360 this skinner thing you're you're really going to do it? 0:44:23.600 --> 0:44:26.359 I go yeah, And he goes, is it routed yet? 0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:30.800 I go, barbar Skuydell and Frank Barcelona Premiere routing it. 0:44:31.239 --> 0:44:34.040 But we're not. We didn't put San Francisco in Bill, 0:44:34.440 --> 0:44:37.800 and he said, we're going to change that. And I go, 0:44:39.000 --> 0:44:40.960 where do you think we should play in San Francisco? 0:44:41.120 --> 0:44:44.799 And he says, he goes, I want to do Shoreline. 0:44:45.160 --> 0:44:48.000 I want to do Concord. I want to do Sacramento. 0:44:48.040 --> 0:44:51.200 I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. Bill, you went 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:54.000 from this is the stupidest idea that you've ever heard. 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:56.719 To now you want to do five cities and you 0:44:56.760 --> 0:44:59.880 want to open the tour in San Francisco. What is 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:03.960 going on? And he said, well, he goes that Bill 0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:06.839 Hard report. He goes, somebody at the radio station here 0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:11.480 in San Francisco started talking about it on the radio 0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:16.280 yesterday morning, and our phone lines have been jammed, people 0:45:16.440 --> 0:45:18.560 calling to wanting to know when they're going to play 0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:21.640 San Francisco. He goes, we'll sell every one of these 0:45:21.680 --> 0:45:25.439 shows out. I said, Shoreline's twenty thousand seats. He said, 0:45:25.520 --> 0:45:28.719 you'll sell every show out. I'll stake my name on it. 0:45:29.320 --> 0:45:33.600 And so we started in San Francisco. We did, we did, 0:45:33.680 --> 0:45:37.640 We did twenty one thousand people at Shoreline sold out, 0:45:38.080 --> 0:45:41.600 sold that, Concord sold out Sacramento. I mean, you know, 0:45:41.760 --> 0:45:44.560 and Bill, you know, Bill was was a was a 0:45:44.719 --> 0:45:50.200 great part of that, putting the band together and getting 0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:55.240 everything and the initial start, and then we did eighty seven, 0:45:55.320 --> 0:45:59.000 and then we did eighty eight, and then the band 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:01.840 kind of like all the ghosts came out and I 0:46:02.000 --> 0:46:05.040 got I got crazy with it, and they got crazy 0:46:05.120 --> 0:46:08.000 with it, and you know, they they called me up 0:46:08.040 --> 0:46:10.000 one day Gary, I think it was Gary, maybe it 0:46:10.080 --> 0:46:12.359 was Now Probably Gary wasn't called. He had somebody called 0:46:12.400 --> 0:46:16.640 me and he was like, we're we're we're we're we're 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:18.759 not gonna We're not going to go forward next year 0:46:19.480 --> 0:46:22.080 with you. And I was like, okay. And then the 0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:24.680 next thing I knew they were going to Bill Graham Management. 0:46:25.400 --> 0:46:30.520 So they went to Bill grand Management for two years, 0:46:30.640 --> 0:46:35.920 did one tour and then right right when when when 0:46:36.120 --> 0:46:38.880 when Bill had the when Bill was was killed in 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:43.920 the helicopter accident, they came, they they came back to 0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:48.040 me and and I had him for the next I 0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:50.840 had him until ninety nine. And put them on the 0:46:51.320 --> 0:46:54.080 put together them and ZZ together, and then we got 0:46:54.160 --> 0:46:57.480 sideways again. And Gary called me up and was like, 0:46:58.120 --> 0:47:00.719 you know, we're gonna We're gonna move on. I I 0:47:00.880 --> 0:47:05.000 was like, Gary, we're great friends. Do me one favor. 0:47:05.440 --> 0:47:08.360 I got everything in I put this tour together. I 0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:10.879 want paid on this tour. He said, You'll get paid 0:47:10.920 --> 0:47:17.680 on this tour and we'll remain friends. And Gary, Dale, Cindy, myself, 0:47:18.320 --> 0:47:20.480 the you know, the rest of the Skinner guys. I 0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:24.359 mean I was. I was at Gary's funeral, and get 0:47:24.760 --> 0:47:28.560 that Dale and Gary lived. They moved ten minutes from 0:47:28.600 --> 0:47:31.040 my house, and we saw each other all the time, 0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:35.960 and you know, there was there wasn't really hard feelings. 0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:38.680 And quite frankly, ros Shilling and Ken Levitan and them 0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:42.200 have done a great job for for Skinner. They the 0:47:42.360 --> 0:47:46.320 and and I know some people don't think this, but 0:47:46.840 --> 0:47:50.239 but I know Gary sat with me and and when 0:47:50.280 --> 0:47:54.000 he had all the health issues before he passed, he 0:47:54.160 --> 0:47:56.880 said to me he said, the one thing that I 0:47:56.960 --> 0:47:58.480 don't want to happen. And I know he said this 0:47:58.560 --> 0:48:01.640 to Dale too. I don't want this band and this 0:48:01.880 --> 0:48:04.720 music and everything that we've been doing to stop because 0:48:04.760 --> 0:48:08.200 I'm not here, and he said, he said, he told 0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:10.560 that to a number of people. And that's why I 0:48:11.080 --> 0:48:16.360 feel like the skinnered music, it doesn't doesn't matter who's playing. 0:48:16.640 --> 0:48:21.759 Johnny's there, Ricky's there. I mean, they're they're doing they're 0:48:21.800 --> 0:48:28.319 doing the the they're doing the legacy well. And they 0:48:29.040 --> 0:48:32.560 they you know, the fans that the fans turn out, 0:48:32.640 --> 0:48:36.520 nobody's making people go to the shows and advertising it 0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:38.759 that it's some you know that that it's you know, 0:48:38.880 --> 0:48:41.879 everybody knows what they're getting and and you know it's 0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:44.439 up to them and the fans to keep on keeping 0:48:44.520 --> 0:48:47.160 the music alive. And that's what Ronnie would have won it, 0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:49.640 That's what you know. That's what Steve Gaines would have wanted. 0:48:49.680 --> 0:48:51.600 That's what you know. That's what they all would have 0:48:51.640 --> 0:48:54.799 won it. And then you know, I knew every one 0:48:54.920 --> 0:49:00.479 of them extremely well, for for as long as every 0:49:00.560 --> 0:49:04.120 one of them lived, because I'm still here and and 0:49:04.400 --> 0:49:07.200 Artemis is still here out of out of everybody, and 0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:10.160 Artemis really wasn't in the band when I first met 0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:12.040 the band. Bob Burns was a drummer when I first 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:15.520 met the band, and the music that music will live 0:49:15.600 --> 0:49:25.480 on way past me. How did Johnny end up being 0:49:25.520 --> 0:49:34.840 the lead singer? I wanted Donnie Gary wanted Johnny, simple 0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:38.440 as that, and and Garrett Gary Gary was right, I mean, 0:49:38.520 --> 0:49:41.600 Johnny was the exact right choice for what we were doing, 0:49:42.000 --> 0:49:44.080 and and Donnie Vans and it's still one of my 0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:47.200 good friends and one of my favorite guys. But but 0:49:47.360 --> 0:49:51.120 Donnie was Donnie wasn't the right He wasn't the right 0:49:51.239 --> 0:49:55.840 thing for for for the band. Johnny was. Johnny wasn't established, 0:49:55.880 --> 0:49:58.680 and we wouldn't be taking Johnny out of thirty eight 0:49:58.760 --> 0:50:02.319 Special to be and Leonard skinnerd and it probably would 0:50:02.320 --> 0:50:04.440 have worked for one tour, but we never would have 0:50:04.880 --> 0:50:08.960 kept the everything going the way it's been going. Okay, 0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:10.000 you put. 0:50:09.960 --> 0:50:14.080 Leonard Skinnyard back together and they move on to Bill Brahm, 0:50:14.200 --> 0:50:17.600 they move on ultimately the vector again. After what's it 0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:20.040 like being a manager? When you get that call? 0:50:24.600 --> 0:50:29.479 It's uh, it's heartbreaking, you know you and and really 0:50:29.600 --> 0:50:34.560 after you get the call, you kind of you the 0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:39.440 reality sets in of all right, yeah, and I mean 0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:44.800 my wife said to me, you know, this could be 0:50:44.880 --> 0:50:47.000 the best and when when it happened in ninety nine, 0:50:47.320 --> 0:50:48.880 she said, this could be the best thing that ever 0:50:48.960 --> 0:50:51.880 happened you because because they're they're you were gonna you 0:50:51.920 --> 0:50:54.680 were gonna die. You know, you were just you were 0:50:54.760 --> 0:50:58.520 too in it, you were too involved. You were just 0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:00.200 too It was too much. It was too it was 0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:04.239 taking up your your entire everything. And you know, when 0:51:04.280 --> 0:51:06.640 things would get sideways, it would get worse, and when 0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:08.040 things were good, it would get better. 0:51:08.120 --> 0:51:08.239 You know. 0:51:08.440 --> 0:51:12.360 It was it was too much. And at first I 0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:16.239 didn't I didn't get it, but but afterwards, and you know, 0:51:16.719 --> 0:51:20.319 time heals all wounds. I mean that that's the that's 0:51:20.400 --> 0:51:24.120 the truth. I mean, I listened the Outlaws. I started 0:51:24.160 --> 0:51:28.839 with the Outlaws. Uh, the Outlaws. I swear I've been 0:51:29.040 --> 0:51:31.560 fired and rehired by the Outlaws like maybe four or 0:51:31.600 --> 0:51:34.120 five times. And and I'm and Henry Paul and I 0:51:34.880 --> 0:51:38.440 have been There was a short time period when I 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:41.240 had to tell Henry that he wasn't in the band anymore. 0:51:41.520 --> 0:51:44.000 And Henry went on to do Blackhawk and to do 0:51:44.480 --> 0:51:47.000 his Henry Paul band stuff and everything like that. During 0:51:47.080 --> 0:51:49.759 that time, I was still managing Skinner art stuff. I 0:51:49.800 --> 0:51:52.480 was still managing the Outlaws, and and Henry and I 0:51:52.680 --> 0:51:58.320 couldn't really be friends. But I mean, Henry's writing a book. 0:51:58.440 --> 0:52:01.680 I'm I'm kind of and on win also, but Henry's 0:52:01.680 --> 0:52:04.320 writing a book. And he said, he said to me, 0:52:05.040 --> 0:52:07.920 you'll be happy with what I say about you. And 0:52:08.040 --> 0:52:12.760 I said, just tell the truth, and he I'll be happy. Okay. 0:52:13.640 --> 0:52:16.080 But you know, I was hanging with the manager the 0:52:16.160 --> 0:52:18.880 other day and he was saying, you know, it's just 0:52:18.960 --> 0:52:21.640 a matter of when you get fired. Oh yeah, well 0:52:21.719 --> 0:52:25.520 that's I think we all kind of think that way. 0:52:25.719 --> 0:52:33.880 And uh uh could I could I get fired from Sticks? 0:52:36.840 --> 0:52:39.040 I didn't think. I didn't think I would get fired 0:52:39.080 --> 0:52:41.040 from skinnerd I didn't think I would get fired from 0:52:41.040 --> 0:52:45.120 the Outlaws when I when I did, I the you know, 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:49.279 there there's some will with with Doug Gray, let me go. 0:52:49.600 --> 0:52:52.000 I don't think so. I just think that we're all 0:52:52.160 --> 0:52:56.279 kind of you know, we're we're a little bit past that. 0:52:56.440 --> 0:52:58.759 And then and and I also know what my relationships 0:52:58.800 --> 0:53:02.040 are with with you know, with my artist. I don't 0:53:02.760 --> 0:53:07.719 you know, uh uh, I'm not. I'm not, in my opinion, 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:11.279 I'm not on tenuous ground with anybody that that that 0:53:11.400 --> 0:53:13.279 I would care about losing. And I'll just leave it 0:53:13.360 --> 0:53:13.560 at that. 0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:18.759 Now, is your experience been that when they do fire you, 0:53:19.440 --> 0:53:22.400 they have somebody else call in the band sort of 0:53:22.480 --> 0:53:23.840 separates themselves from you. 0:53:25.719 --> 0:53:28.359 Oh yeah, yeah. Most of the time. Most of them 0:53:28.360 --> 0:53:32.200 aren't big boys and call themselves. I mean, I will 0:53:32.280 --> 0:53:35.680 say this. The once or twice that Henry and I 0:53:36.160 --> 0:53:39.279 got he went, he went and did some different stuff 0:53:39.320 --> 0:53:43.080 for different reasons, something like that. Henry actually Henry actually 0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:46.319 called you know, when I think back on it, Gary 0:53:46.360 --> 0:53:48.719 didn't call me. The business manager called me. You know, 0:53:48.840 --> 0:53:52.520 there's you know, there's there's you know that's not it's 0:53:52.560 --> 0:53:56.879 not really an artist thing to unless you unless they're 0:53:56.920 --> 0:53:58.920 pissed off at you. Then I'm sure that you know 0:53:59.400 --> 0:54:01.120 that some of we'll call and go like, you know, 0:54:01.200 --> 0:54:02.920 I've been waiting to do this. I mean, it's you know, 0:54:03.320 --> 0:54:05.680 but most of them, most of them don't. Most of 0:54:05.760 --> 0:54:08.640 them have somebody and usually there's somebody else that's been 0:54:08.680 --> 0:54:11.239 squacking in their ears and telling them that they can 0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:13.359 they can do this for them and that for them, 0:54:13.440 --> 0:54:17.680 and you know, I don't play that game. And and 0:54:18.120 --> 0:54:22.200 really you know, uh, I mean, you know, cork corn 0:54:22.360 --> 0:54:26.920 corn doesn't red light gets enough calls from people saying 0:54:27.360 --> 0:54:30.879 where'd you be interested in? Then we get calls where 0:54:31.120 --> 0:54:34.440 where where we're getting you know, listen, we've got a 0:54:34.920 --> 0:54:37.880 we've got a big roster where you know, we're a 0:54:38.040 --> 0:54:42.160 great management company. But you know it still is a 0:54:42.760 --> 0:54:46.960 you know, personal manager kind of things, and you know, 0:54:47.280 --> 0:54:51.640 personalities again, can you know, can can outweigh business? What's 0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:53.759 what's going on business wise? I mean I've you know, 0:54:53.800 --> 0:54:56.719 I've had I've not when Bill ham got married or 0:54:56.800 --> 0:55:00.239 got when Bill hamm got fired by zz Top after 0:55:00.440 --> 0:55:03.239 managing those guys for thirty years, and I had a 0:55:03.320 --> 0:55:07.600 meeting with what's easy about managing them? When Bill ham 0:55:07.800 --> 0:55:10.799 got got got fired. That was the most shocking thing 0:55:11.000 --> 0:55:13.880 to me in the world because he went in the 0:55:13.960 --> 0:55:17.240 studio with him he you know, and and Bill basically 0:55:17.960 --> 0:55:20.840 he was he was a z easy guy. That's what 0:55:21.040 --> 0:55:24.400 that's what his that's that that's what his whole focus was. 0:55:25.239 --> 0:55:28.680 But you know, sometimes you're too close to it, and 0:55:29.320 --> 0:55:31.400 you know, you're too close to the flame and you 0:55:31.480 --> 0:55:31.960 get burned. 0:55:33.320 --> 0:55:35.719 So you were an independent for a long time. How 0:55:35.760 --> 0:55:37.879 did you decide to make a deal with Red Light? 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:48.120 Uh? I I had. I when Irving started rolling up 0:55:48.160 --> 0:55:52.040 the management companies Irving and I I consider Irving a friend. 0:55:52.080 --> 0:55:56.400 Irving Irving one of the greatest managers ever, you know. 0:55:56.920 --> 0:56:01.400 I I had a meeting with Irving, and I probably 0:56:01.520 --> 0:56:04.560 could have when when Barrick and Consolo and all those 0:56:04.600 --> 0:56:08.759 people started going to Irving, I probably could have made 0:56:08.800 --> 0:56:11.320 a deal with Irving. But in my estimation, if I 0:56:11.400 --> 0:56:14.040 made a deal with Irving, I was going to need 0:56:14.400 --> 0:56:16.840 to move to Los Angeles to be in the middle 0:56:16.880 --> 0:56:19.839 of what was going on with him, so that when 0:56:19.880 --> 0:56:23.520 he was talking with somebody about you know, management, uh, 0:56:24.000 --> 0:56:27.440 and he was going to have somebody handle somebody, I 0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:30.960 would be right there because I you know, that's how 0:56:31.160 --> 0:56:34.439 that's how goes. So I had, I had a meeting. 0:56:34.680 --> 0:56:39.319 I didn't. I didn't go into the whole Irving roll up. 0:56:40.360 --> 0:56:43.200 And I was doing fine. I had Alliance Artist. I 0:56:43.640 --> 0:56:46.400 was out of the promoting business. I had done my 0:56:46.760 --> 0:56:49.680 my national tours promoting wise, and I'd done my my 0:56:50.800 --> 0:56:53.520 local and I was out of that whole thing. And 0:56:53.600 --> 0:56:56.799 I was a manager and I had had uh uh 0:56:57.480 --> 0:57:01.000 Skinner I had had left. I had I had sticks 0:57:01.000 --> 0:57:03.480 and we were rolling, and I had other artists I 0:57:03.600 --> 0:57:06.160 bat I had bad company for a little while. I 0:57:06.239 --> 0:57:08.480 had different artists that I was doing doing stuff with. 0:57:08.880 --> 0:57:12.440 And I got a call from from somebody and they 0:57:12.520 --> 0:57:16.200 said that, uh, that zz top was was looking for 0:57:16.520 --> 0:57:20.200 for management, and that I was on the list of 0:57:20.400 --> 0:57:24.000 people that they wanted to meet with. So as it happened, 0:57:24.960 --> 0:57:32.680 zz Top's attorney was John bon Jovi's attorney. John bon 0:57:32.760 --> 0:57:38.280 Jovi is one of my closest friends and my my 0:57:38.400 --> 0:57:43.560 relationship with him was as a promoter, and he's he's 0:57:43.720 --> 0:57:46.600 you know, we we confide in each other on all 0:57:46.720 --> 0:57:50.120 kinds of stuff and and actually my my wife is 0:57:50.320 --> 0:57:54.120 extremely friendly with John. Also, when John wants real advice, 0:57:54.200 --> 0:57:57.480 he'll call Cindy instead of calling me. So so I 0:57:57.600 --> 0:58:00.439 called John and I said, listen, I'm gonna meet It's easy, 0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:03.600 and your guys is one of the attorneys on this thing. 0:58:04.000 --> 0:58:05.680 Can you just put a good word in for me? 0:58:05.760 --> 0:58:09.080 And John said, there, there's there's never been anything that 0:58:09.200 --> 0:58:11.360 I thought made more sense than you and z Z 0:58:11.560 --> 0:58:15.040 after SKINNERD and all that stuff. OK, I appreciate that. 0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:20.840 So John h John reached out, Uh, this meeting was 0:58:20.920 --> 0:58:23.560 set up. I flew into l A, went into a 0:58:23.640 --> 0:58:28.160 meeting with Billy Gibbons and and and another person was 0:58:28.240 --> 0:58:31.240 in the in the meeting, not not anybody in the band. 0:58:31.680 --> 0:58:34.640 And we had we had them. We had the meeting. 0:58:35.080 --> 0:58:37.600 And the next like after the meeting, a couple of 0:58:37.640 --> 0:58:39.520 hours later, I got a call from the attorney and 0:58:39.560 --> 0:58:43.120 he was like, Bill, Billy was blown away. You're you're gonna, You're, 0:58:43.240 --> 0:58:45.040 You're gonna, you're gonna get it. You're gonna get You're 0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:50.360 you're gonna get this. And then whatever happened over the 0:58:50.440 --> 0:58:54.000 next forty eight hours, Billy had a meeting with Carl 0:58:54.040 --> 0:58:56.840 Stubner and the next thing, you know, Carl Stubner became 0:58:56.920 --> 0:58:58.680 the manager of Eazy and has been the manager of 0:58:58.800 --> 0:59:02.240 z Z ever since. So I guess they made, you know, 0:59:02.920 --> 0:59:07.480 a good decision, because it's worked. But I got I 0:59:07.600 --> 0:59:11.360 got like, uh and and and one of the things 0:59:11.400 --> 0:59:13.920 that came back to me was, well, you know, you're 0:59:14.000 --> 0:59:16.800 just you know, Bill Hamm was just a manager that 0:59:17.000 --> 0:59:19.840 was in Houston and just had that office, and you know, 0:59:20.480 --> 0:59:22.600 you know, you were you just have the office in 0:59:22.680 --> 0:59:26.200 Atlanta and and Stubner has a you know, bigger kind 0:59:26.240 --> 0:59:29.120 of uh footprint out there and everything like that, and 0:59:29.240 --> 0:59:31.560 I was, I was really kind of bothered by it. 0:59:31.640 --> 0:59:34.160 And Rod Essek, that's a really good friend of mine, 0:59:34.200 --> 0:59:36.720 that's one of the guys at c AA. He and 0:59:36.800 --> 0:59:38.720 I were at a show and we were we were talking, 0:59:39.200 --> 0:59:41.640 and I was like, you know, man, you know, I 0:59:41.800 --> 0:59:44.600 know this independent thing is is great, and you know, 0:59:44.720 --> 0:59:47.480 and I know it's you know, but nobody's there's not 0:59:47.600 --> 0:59:50.360 that many independents left anymore. And when I have a 0:59:50.480 --> 0:59:53.960 meeting now, I'm like the little guy, and and everybody 0:59:54.000 --> 0:59:56.080 else has all these bells and whistles and all this 0:59:56.200 --> 0:59:58.840 other kind of shit because they're associated with somebody. And 0:59:59.200 --> 1:00:02.920 Rod said to me, well, you had that chance to 1:00:03.040 --> 1:00:05.320 do that thing with Irving, right, And I said, well, 1:00:06.040 --> 1:00:10.680 you know, I really thought that to make it work 1:00:10.720 --> 1:00:13.040 with Irving, I needed to move to l A. And 1:00:13.080 --> 1:00:14.520 I'm not I don't want to live in l A. 1:00:15.240 --> 1:00:17.720 I love Atlanta. I'm not moving. You know, I'll get 1:00:17.760 --> 1:00:21.160 out of the business before i'll move. And he said, well, 1:00:21.360 --> 1:00:25.920 what about corn Capshaw? And I said, I said, do 1:00:26.000 --> 1:00:28.920 you know two people that are more different than each 1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:33.440 other than me and Corn and Rod. Rod was like, well, 1:00:33.440 --> 1:00:38.800 I think McGraw. Corn was handling McGraw at the time, 1:00:39.080 --> 1:00:41.000 and him and Rod were talking all the time. And 1:00:41.080 --> 1:00:43.520 he said, he goes, you don't you don't get it. 1:00:43.600 --> 1:00:46.320 He goes, he goes, Corn Corn is a great guy, 1:00:46.440 --> 1:00:49.240 and he goes, but you know, people, people, people are 1:00:49.280 --> 1:00:51.840 afraid of him, or people don't you know people or 1:00:51.920 --> 1:00:55.360 whatever it is, they don't you know that Corn. Corn 1:00:55.480 --> 1:00:58.160 is very private about everything. And he goes, But I 1:00:58.240 --> 1:01:02.120 think you and Corn would get along. So I was like, Rod, 1:01:02.520 --> 1:01:05.560 let me tell you something, just to make it clear 1:01:05.640 --> 1:01:08.520 to you. If Corn Capshaw called me on the phone, 1:01:09.160 --> 1:01:11.360 I of course would talk to him. I would pick 1:01:11.480 --> 1:01:13.400 up the phone. I go, but I'm not you know, 1:01:13.600 --> 1:01:17.040 I'm not looking. I'm an independent guy. All right. This 1:01:17.240 --> 1:01:19.960 is on a Friday in Nashville. All right, Monday, I'm 1:01:20.000 --> 1:01:22.400 back in the office. I'm sitting in the office and 1:01:22.560 --> 1:01:26.360 somebody says in the office, they go, there's a Corn 1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:29.960 Capshaw on the phone for you. And I was like, no, 1:01:30.320 --> 1:01:33.280 that's Rod. I was, that's Rod screwing with me. So 1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:35.480 I picked up the phone and I go, yeah, and 1:01:35.920 --> 1:01:40.280 Corn said, Charlie, it's Corn Capshaw. Do you have a moment? 1:01:40.320 --> 1:01:43.120 And I was like, it is, hey, Corn, how you doing? 1:01:43.240 --> 1:01:46.320 And we started talking and he said I was talking 1:01:46.360 --> 1:01:50.920 with Rod Essek and Rod Rod thinks that that that 1:01:51.040 --> 1:01:53.200 you and I should get together and sit down and 1:01:53.280 --> 1:01:56.280 have a meeting. And he said, he said, would you 1:01:56.600 --> 1:01:59.520 would you be interested? He goes, He goes, I really 1:01:59.560 --> 1:02:03.600 would like to have an office in Atlanta, and I'd 1:02:03.720 --> 1:02:06.080 like to have a presence, and he goes and he goes, 1:02:06.600 --> 1:02:09.240 I think we should sit down and talk. And because 1:02:09.480 --> 1:02:12.640 way back in the way back years, I managed a 1:02:12.680 --> 1:02:14.720 Freddie Jones band and the Freddie Jones band was on 1:02:14.800 --> 1:02:18.280 an entire tour with with with the Dave Matthews band, 1:02:18.280 --> 1:02:21.840 and we were the band was was fairly infamous besides 1:02:21.880 --> 1:02:27.400 their music, with their party and and everybody knew each 1:02:27.400 --> 1:02:30.240 other and that that was really kind of and so 1:02:30.600 --> 1:02:33.360 I said that, I said, yeah, okay. So for the 1:02:33.480 --> 1:02:37.160 next like four or six weeks, Corn and I kept 1:02:37.240 --> 1:02:39.560 on trying to figure out someplace that we could get 1:02:39.600 --> 1:02:42.840 together to have a meeting where it wasn't changing his 1:02:43.240 --> 1:02:46.520 top schedule in my schedule, and so finally we had him. 1:02:46.640 --> 1:02:49.000 We had a meeting at the Red Light office, the 1:02:49.920 --> 1:02:52.120 last red light office, not the new not the building 1:02:52.160 --> 1:02:55.720 that we that that Corns has in Nashville, but the 1:02:56.360 --> 1:02:59.840 one that Paradigm and a couple of other agencies were 1:02:59.840 --> 1:03:02.640 in that office or in that in that building. We 1:03:02.800 --> 1:03:06.320 had a meeting. There was nobody else, everybody we we 1:03:06.400 --> 1:03:08.560 had the meeting after the office was closed so that 1:03:08.640 --> 1:03:11.000 nobody would bother us or anything like that. And we 1:03:11.160 --> 1:03:15.000 sat in a room for forty five minutes or something 1:03:15.040 --> 1:03:18.240 like that, and he said, you do I think we 1:03:18.280 --> 1:03:21.840 should make a deal. And I was like, okay, I go, 1:03:22.760 --> 1:03:25.880 you know, just you know, one of the things that 1:03:25.920 --> 1:03:28.760 i want to make sure of is is that I'm 1:03:28.880 --> 1:03:32.080 staying in Atlanta. I don't I'm not gonna And he said, 1:03:32.360 --> 1:03:34.200 I'm not going to work. I'm not going to deal 1:03:34.280 --> 1:03:36.800 with any of that stuff with you. He said, you're 1:03:37.000 --> 1:03:39.400 I know that you're friends with Bruce Eskowitz, that that 1:03:39.640 --> 1:03:42.600 that's now that's now running our l A stuff and 1:03:42.640 --> 1:03:44.280 aver that that. I go, yeah, I go, yeah, Bruce 1:03:44.360 --> 1:03:46.520 and I know each other from when Bruce started with 1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:50.880 Pace with with with Louie. And he said, he said, 1:03:51.200 --> 1:03:55.320 get on the phone with with Bruce Eskowitz. Make yourself 1:03:55.400 --> 1:03:58.200 the best deal that you want, and we'll and and 1:03:58.280 --> 1:04:02.240 we'll get in business together. And that was in like 1:04:03.120 --> 1:04:08.440 maybe August of twenty let me see, I got a note, 1:04:08.520 --> 1:04:15.480 let me see twenty twenty eleven and January one, twenty twelve. 1:04:16.680 --> 1:04:20.040 The building that I had that was Alliance Artist, which 1:04:20.080 --> 1:04:23.240 I owned the building. We went outside and we took 1:04:23.280 --> 1:04:25.160 the Alliance Artist thing down and we put up a 1:04:25.240 --> 1:04:28.440 thing that said red Light and I've been I signed. 1:04:28.520 --> 1:04:30.320 I signed it. Corn and I made a deal for 1:04:30.440 --> 1:04:36.080 three years and I planned to retire at red Light 1:04:37.200 --> 1:04:38.680 if I retire. 1:04:39.560 --> 1:04:44.240 So when you're independent, you get all the money. If 1:04:44.280 --> 1:04:46.520 you're working with red Light, red Light's got to get 1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:49.040 some of the money. So how does it work out. 1:04:50.360 --> 1:04:53.080 It's a fair and equitable deal that we worked out, 1:04:54.600 --> 1:04:57.960 and it's worked out great for both of us because 1:04:58.320 --> 1:05:00.920 there are artists that have come to us because of 1:05:01.480 --> 1:05:04.320 because of the because I'm in red Light. I mean, 1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:06.479 just you know, just like I didn't get zz Top, 1:05:07.440 --> 1:05:11.800 I got Poison. You know, Poison was was was a 1:05:12.720 --> 1:05:17.640 collaboration between meeting with the band, with me meeting with 1:05:17.760 --> 1:05:20.800 him and Corn meeting with him, and you know, and 1:05:21.240 --> 1:05:24.480 and you know that you know that the red light. 1:05:24.560 --> 1:05:28.440 The red light brings attention and and and uh and 1:05:29.120 --> 1:05:32.919 you know I I I don't. I don't particularly take 1:05:33.040 --> 1:05:36.600 meetings with and and go with every band that that's 1:05:36.640 --> 1:05:39.439 out there, that that you know, somebody from Red Lighter. 1:05:39.560 --> 1:05:41.560 Corn will say to me, Hey, so and so is available, 1:05:41.600 --> 1:05:44.440 and I'll go like, that's not, that's not that's not 1:05:44.560 --> 1:05:48.520 for me, that's not, that's not. I I'm listen, I'm 1:05:48.600 --> 1:05:51.280 I'm seventy two years old now. I I have the 1:05:51.400 --> 1:05:54.520 power to say no. I have the power to be choosy. 1:05:55.800 --> 1:05:58.720 I don't give a I don't care really a whole 1:05:58.800 --> 1:06:02.480 lot about the money, you know it. You know, it's 1:06:02.520 --> 1:06:04.919 not about It's like Bill Graham, it's not about the money. 1:06:04.960 --> 1:06:07.720 It's about the money. But I mean, that's not what 1:06:08.000 --> 1:06:10.920 drives me. And that's just it's just not what drives me. 1:06:12.480 --> 1:06:16.040 And you know, I I do this stuff because I'm 1:06:16.600 --> 1:06:20.560 because I'm passionate about it. And and one of the 1:06:20.680 --> 1:06:24.120 more passionate other managers that I know is Corn. I 1:06:24.160 --> 1:06:27.880 mean Corn is you know, I actually don't. I don't 1:06:28.000 --> 1:06:33.680 know how somebody's brain operates the way Corn's brain operates 1:06:34.320 --> 1:06:37.320 with everything that he does. I mean, he's he and 1:06:37.480 --> 1:06:40.640 he knows what's going on on, everything that's that's going on. 1:06:41.040 --> 1:06:42.920 That's that's way too much for me. That's like when 1:06:43.240 --> 1:06:45.640 when we were at that that that dinner the other 1:06:45.760 --> 1:06:48.000 night and you and I and Corn were standing there talking. 1:06:48.520 --> 1:06:52.040 I mean, the most fascinating thing to me about our 1:06:52.160 --> 1:06:55.280 little exchange during everything at that is you guys started 1:06:55.400 --> 1:07:00.360 talking about books that you're reading, and like, you know, 1:07:00.520 --> 1:07:03.240 if I read a book, I'm reading a biography about 1:07:03.640 --> 1:07:06.280 somebody that's been in the business or an artist or 1:07:06.320 --> 1:07:09.440 something like that. And you guys were talking about stuff 1:07:09.480 --> 1:07:14.640 that was completely and and and I was like and 1:07:14.880 --> 1:07:17.200 and I was thinking to myself, you the two of 1:07:17.320 --> 1:07:21.960 you have time to read books about ship that doesn't 1:07:22.000 --> 1:07:25.040 have anything to do with what's going on with us 1:07:25.120 --> 1:07:28.200 all the time. And and you weren't. You were you 1:07:28.320 --> 1:07:30.800 guys were talking, so you didn't get it like I did. 1:07:30.880 --> 1:07:34.000 But I was watching how passionate you guys got about 1:07:34.040 --> 1:07:36.920 what books you were reading. And I was thinking, I 1:07:37.040 --> 1:07:40.280 was thinking, to myself, that's that's you know, you get 1:07:40.320 --> 1:07:43.080 a surprise every now and then. But that's really surprising 1:07:43.160 --> 1:07:45.760 to me that that's that's something because I would think 1:07:45.800 --> 1:07:48.520 that most of what you're interested in or he's interested in, 1:07:48.640 --> 1:07:52.560 revolves around that. You know, this world and and and 1:07:53.160 --> 1:07:55.960 and I don't have time for anything out of this 1:07:56.160 --> 1:08:00.160 world unless it's you know, going back and you know 1:08:00.640 --> 1:08:04.120 the Keith Richards book or the Bill Graham book or 1:08:04.160 --> 1:08:06.920 the Peter Grant book or you know any of you know, 1:08:07.320 --> 1:08:10.440 that stuff in the new Dave Mason book. I mean 1:08:10.720 --> 1:08:13.720 just was eye opening to me because it's a it's 1:08:13.800 --> 1:08:17.000 a snapshot in time of what was going on for 1:08:17.640 --> 1:08:20.919 you know, when this business was, you know, in its infancy. 1:08:21.080 --> 1:08:23.160 I mean, you know when I started going to shows, 1:08:23.200 --> 1:08:27.280 I mean bands, bands barely had what was called production. 1:08:27.439 --> 1:08:30.320 You used whatever the promoter provided for you. I mean, 1:08:30.360 --> 1:08:34.160 you know, there wasn't you know, you know, Frank Barcelona 1:08:34.439 --> 1:08:38.439 was controlling everything that was going on, you know, at 1:08:38.479 --> 1:08:41.880 the beginning of and A. David Krab, David Krebs, you know, 1:08:42.479 --> 1:08:45.200 Libra Crebs. I mean, there was there were those power people. 1:08:45.360 --> 1:08:47.800 I just got lucky when I was in college that 1:08:48.160 --> 1:08:51.759 that I went to all these shows with the Balkans 1:08:51.880 --> 1:08:57.120 were promoting in Cleveland, and I saw kind of from 1:08:58.200 --> 1:09:02.400 from Mike Belkan kind of being nice to me. I 1:09:02.600 --> 1:09:06.200 kind of saw this world where and it's kind of 1:09:06.280 --> 1:09:10.280 been my path where a manager could be a promoter 1:09:10.479 --> 1:09:13.400 and a promoter could be a manager, because that's what 1:09:13.600 --> 1:09:17.160 they did. Mike managed the you know, the James Gang 1:09:17.240 --> 1:09:20.600 and and and Wild Cherry and and and bands and 1:09:20.720 --> 1:09:23.800 they but they still had the biggest promoter company in 1:09:24.000 --> 1:09:27.000 in the world for a while. In the business it 1:09:27.080 --> 1:09:29.680 got very defined. You you weren't on both sides of 1:09:29.760 --> 1:09:34.760 the fence. But I I jump, I jumped back and forth. 1:09:41.560 --> 1:09:43.880 Let's go back to the beginning. So you're from Pittsburgh. 1:09:45.040 --> 1:09:49.160 I'm from Pittsburgh, Yes, like the actual city or a suburb, 1:09:50.560 --> 1:09:54.640 a suburb, a sub suburb of Pittsburgh. And what did 1:09:54.680 --> 1:09:59.200 your parents do for a living? My father, my father 1:09:59.400 --> 1:10:06.839 owned a a small hang out restaurant that the client 1:10:06.960 --> 1:10:12.479 tele was mainly mobsters or music people like Frank Sinatra 1:10:13.200 --> 1:10:17.400 and people like that. And the bar club only held 1:10:17.520 --> 1:10:23.320 probably sixty people, but it was always open after hours 1:10:23.439 --> 1:10:25.680 because all the cops in the neighborhood were on the 1:10:25.760 --> 1:10:28.360 take and when everybody else had to close at two 1:10:28.360 --> 1:10:31.120 o'clock in the morning, my dad, my dad was able 1:10:31.160 --> 1:10:34.200 to you know, have the door and people would knock 1:10:34.240 --> 1:10:36.240 on the door and they'd let him in at two 1:10:36.400 --> 1:10:38.120 thirty in the morning and the place would close at 1:10:38.160 --> 1:10:42.160 five in the morning, and h and and he he 1:10:42.640 --> 1:10:46.519 he did that while I was a kid, and and 1:10:47.080 --> 1:10:52.200 my mother was my mother was just a housewife until 1:10:53.760 --> 1:10:55.800 my dad decided that he wanted to get out of 1:10:55.840 --> 1:10:58.200 the business. So therefore there was gonna have to be 1:10:58.320 --> 1:11:00.960 more money come in. And my mother became a very 1:11:01.120 --> 1:11:04.880 very big time real estate agent both in uh In 1:11:05.200 --> 1:11:08.479 in Pittsburgh, and then when they retired, she's she kept 1:11:08.560 --> 1:11:11.920 working and doing real estate in uh In, Florida because 1:11:11.960 --> 1:11:15.720 she enjoyed doing it. And it's you know, it was 1:11:15.960 --> 1:11:19.280 uh so. So I I grew up kind of with 1:11:19.439 --> 1:11:22.639 a lot of street smarts. And and when I when 1:11:22.640 --> 1:11:24.479 I when I had this thing. I had a band 1:11:24.520 --> 1:11:26.519 when I was in in high school and the band 1:11:26.600 --> 1:11:28.600 came to me. We had we were kind of like 1:11:28.720 --> 1:11:31.200 three dog Night. We had three singers, and they had 1:11:31.240 --> 1:11:33.080 a meeting that I wasn't in, and they came to 1:11:33.160 --> 1:11:35.800 me and they said, listen, there's bad news here. You 1:11:35.960 --> 1:11:39.240 can't sing. But the good news is is you get 1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:41.439 all of our bookings for us. So we want you 1:11:41.560 --> 1:11:44.200 to like book us and manage us. So so I 1:11:44.600 --> 1:11:47.640 I did that with with with the band until I 1:11:48.840 --> 1:11:52.320 it became time to graduate from high school and I 1:11:52.479 --> 1:11:55.400 was working for a summer for my dad and he 1:11:55.439 --> 1:11:59.519 had this big, huge broiler for cooking steaks, and in 1:11:59.600 --> 1:12:01.960 front of the broiler was where you cleaned the dishes, 1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:04.360 and I would clean the dishes in front of this 1:12:04.600 --> 1:12:08.360 like broiler that was like give giving me a son 1:12:08.439 --> 1:12:11.880 tan on my back. And one night I came home 1:12:11.920 --> 1:12:14.320 and I was bitching about working in the restaurant and 1:12:14.360 --> 1:12:17.960 everything like that, and my mother said to me, you 1:12:18.080 --> 1:12:20.519 need to go to college. And I said, mother, who 1:12:20.560 --> 1:12:23.920 are you kidding? I have like a one point nine 1:12:24.160 --> 1:12:27.960 grade point average. I'm not getting in any college. He said, 1:12:28.240 --> 1:12:30.680 I'm going to get you into college, and you're going 1:12:30.760 --> 1:12:33.360 to go to college because if you don't go to college, 1:12:33.840 --> 1:12:36.000 you're going to be working in that restaurant for your 1:12:36.080 --> 1:12:38.880 father for for long, you know. And she goes, I 1:12:38.920 --> 1:12:40.960 don't want to put up with it. So there was 1:12:41.080 --> 1:12:46.120 this remedial kind of work your way into college situation 1:12:46.320 --> 1:12:51.519 at this small college in Ashland, Ohio that my mother 1:12:51.760 --> 1:12:54.120 somehow the I guess somebody at the at our high 1:12:54.120 --> 1:12:56.800 school told her about it, and she searched somebody out 1:12:56.840 --> 1:12:58.320 there and they got us a meeting and we went 1:12:58.439 --> 1:13:01.200 on and there was the first time that they were 1:13:01.280 --> 1:13:05.559 trying this, and they were letting like misfits that didn't 1:13:05.640 --> 1:13:08.040 have the grades to get into the school. They were 1:13:08.120 --> 1:13:10.840 letting us come for summer school. And if we were 1:13:10.920 --> 1:13:15.400 able to operate in summer school, then that we could 1:13:15.560 --> 1:13:17.960 we could come back in the in the fall. So 1:13:18.960 --> 1:13:22.680 we all went to there's probably forty or fifty of 1:13:22.760 --> 1:13:24.599 us or something like that, and there was a crowd 1:13:24.680 --> 1:13:27.599 of maybe fifteen or twenty of us that all became 1:13:27.680 --> 1:13:32.280 buddies from the school, and we all faked our way 1:13:32.439 --> 1:13:38.320 through four years of college, you know, just you know, 1:13:38.760 --> 1:13:41.720 when it came time to take tests, I you know, 1:13:42.439 --> 1:13:45.519 I'd get white crosses and read everything for three days 1:13:45.560 --> 1:13:48.800 in a row and take the test and pass the test. 1:13:48.880 --> 1:13:51.640 But I wouldn't show up for classes. I wouldn't do that. 1:13:51.760 --> 1:13:57.839 I got on the student Senate and I started booking 1:13:57.960 --> 1:14:01.760 shows entertainment wise, and they had been having you know, 1:14:02.400 --> 1:14:04.760 like The Fifth Dimension and shit like that, and then 1:14:04.800 --> 1:14:07.639 all of a sudden, I'm bringing and I started doing 1:14:07.680 --> 1:14:11.240 it with Belkan College concerts. I started bringing the James 1:14:11.360 --> 1:14:15.439 Gang and like lou Reid and Poco and all these 1:14:15.479 --> 1:14:17.679 bands that I was into. I started getting them because 1:14:17.720 --> 1:14:22.240 I had the school's money. So you know, it was 1:14:22.320 --> 1:14:25.600 the student fund to put on, you know, concerts, So 1:14:25.960 --> 1:14:27.840 it didn't matter if we made money or not. We 1:14:28.040 --> 1:14:30.439 just had the We just had the you know, we 1:14:30.640 --> 1:14:33.840 just had the you know, bring talent in. So you know, 1:14:34.320 --> 1:14:37.519 I did that and ran back and forth to Cleveland, 1:14:37.600 --> 1:14:41.439 saw every act that, you know, all the packages, all 1:14:41.520 --> 1:14:44.760 the stuff that was going on from nineteen sixty nine 1:14:45.320 --> 1:14:51.040 until nineteen seventy three and I graduated and I left college, 1:14:51.560 --> 1:14:54.880 went home. They had a graduation party for me and 1:14:55.240 --> 1:14:59.200 a friend of my father's that had some business that 1:15:00.439 --> 1:15:03.400 that had a lot of cash, and a friend of 1:15:03.439 --> 1:15:05.559 mine that I went to college as father put up 1:15:06.000 --> 1:15:08.760 I think they each each one put up like one 1:15:08.840 --> 1:15:11.200 hundred or one hundred and fifty thousand dollars each. And 1:15:11.640 --> 1:15:14.639 we moved to Florida to start promoting concerts in Florida, 1:15:14.640 --> 1:15:16.680 which we had no idea how we were going to 1:15:16.760 --> 1:15:20.160 get any concerts or anything like that. And because when 1:15:20.200 --> 1:15:23.280 I was in college there was the college booking division 1:15:23.360 --> 1:15:27.240 of Belkan. I went to the University of South Florida. 1:15:28.000 --> 1:15:29.840 There was a guy named Rick Alter that was the 1:15:31.920 --> 1:15:34.160 head of the student stuff. He wasn't a student, but 1:15:34.280 --> 1:15:37.800 he was the one that made decisions about music and 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:39.479 every like that. And we were talking to him about 1:15:39.520 --> 1:15:42.760 we wanted to buy the talent for them, and we 1:15:42.840 --> 1:15:46.639 were finishing up the meeting and he said, if you're 1:15:46.680 --> 1:15:50.040 not doing anything tomorrow night, you should come up to 1:15:50.120 --> 1:15:52.760 the We have a grassy hill here and we have 1:15:53.640 --> 1:15:56.960 groups play outside. And he goes, there's a band that's 1:15:57.040 --> 1:16:00.000 local here. They've been in Colorado for a little while, 1:16:00.479 --> 1:16:02.200 but they're coming back and this is the first time 1:16:02.200 --> 1:16:04.280 they're back in Tampa in like a few months or 1:16:04.320 --> 1:16:07.240 something like that, and they're called the Outlaws, and you 1:16:07.320 --> 1:16:10.400 should come see this band. So I went sat on 1:16:10.520 --> 1:16:14.400 the hill watched watched this band just blaze with the 1:16:14.479 --> 1:16:17.080 guitars and everything like that. When they were done, I 1:16:17.160 --> 1:16:20.920 knew how to just walk and get backstage. I walked around, 1:16:21.680 --> 1:16:24.240 walked up, saw Henry Paul. Walked up to Henry Paul 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:27.320 and said, hey, you guys are pretty good. Do you 1:16:27.439 --> 1:16:29.560 have a manager? And he was like no, And I 1:16:29.680 --> 1:16:33.800 said I'd like to manage you. And he goes, really, 1:16:33.880 --> 1:16:35.880 what do you doing. We had cards made up for 1:16:36.280 --> 1:16:38.400 this production company we had and gave him a caartner. 1:16:38.439 --> 1:16:40.600 We had that, and I said, let's why don't you 1:16:40.680 --> 1:16:43.559 guys come by. We're Ken Ken, this guy Ken Kraus 1:16:43.720 --> 1:16:45.880 was my partner. Why don't you come by and and 1:16:46.600 --> 1:16:49.559 uh tomorrow and we'll sit down and we'll talk. Band 1:16:49.640 --> 1:16:53.720 came by and we just started talking and started managing them, 1:16:53.800 --> 1:16:56.160 and next thing you know, I was in a con 1:16:56.240 --> 1:16:59.360 Aline van going all around the country and and we 1:16:59.640 --> 1:17:02.759 you know, we we we played a bunch of dates 1:17:02.800 --> 1:17:08.040 with Skinnard, who was we became fast friends with and uh, 1:17:09.640 --> 1:17:14.759 Peter Rudge was was was just getting this the skinnered 1:17:14.800 --> 1:17:18.439 thing he was. He was becoming Skynyrd's manager. Alan Walden 1:17:18.479 --> 1:17:20.799 that was the former manager of Skinnerd was my partner 1:17:21.160 --> 1:17:25.280 at that point on on on management Outlaws management, and 1:17:25.800 --> 1:17:31.880 we uh uh the band opened up a couple of shows. 1:17:32.479 --> 1:17:35.920 Skinnered guys started talking about how good the Outlaws guys were. 1:17:37.080 --> 1:17:39.519 Somebody said something to an A and R guy that 1:17:39.720 --> 1:17:43.400 was at a new label that that was being started 1:17:43.479 --> 1:17:46.080 up by a guy named Clive Davis and was called 1:17:46.200 --> 1:17:49.800 Arista Records, And I got a call from this A 1:17:49.960 --> 1:17:51.800 and R guy, and he was like, I'd like to 1:17:51.840 --> 1:17:54.479 come see the band. I want to come on Clive 1:17:54.600 --> 1:17:57.720 Davis's behalf to see the band in Orlando. I see 1:17:57.720 --> 1:18:00.760 you're playing with Leonard Skinner. He came and saw. We 1:18:00.880 --> 1:18:03.960 went to a payphone and called Clive and fight and 1:18:04.040 --> 1:18:09.599 told Clive how great the band was. Clive, we heard 1:18:09.640 --> 1:18:15.120 all the stuff. Clive came to flew into Atlanta, changed planes, 1:18:15.120 --> 1:18:17.600 which he didn't really like that whole idea, but we 1:18:17.960 --> 1:18:20.640 I met him at the airport. We flew together to 1:18:22.320 --> 1:18:26.640 uh Columbus, Georgia, where where the Outlaws were opening for 1:18:26.760 --> 1:18:31.559 Leonard Skinner and Clive saw Skinner. I saw the Outlaws. 1:18:32.080 --> 1:18:35.800 We were walking to go to the hotel to sit 1:18:35.880 --> 1:18:38.479 down to talk about it. He was blown away. And 1:18:38.760 --> 1:18:41.960 as we were walking, Ronnie van Zandt and Leonard Skinner 1:18:42.040 --> 1:18:46.640 were headed to the stage and we got stopped and 1:18:46.800 --> 1:18:50.400 Ronnie came over to Clive Davis and said, you're hey, 1:18:50.920 --> 1:18:53.040 I'm Ronnie van Zant. You're Clive Davis, right, And he 1:18:53.080 --> 1:18:55.880 goes yeah, and he goes he goes, uh, I'll tell 1:18:55.920 --> 1:18:58.479 you what I hear you you're here to sign the Outlaws. 1:18:58.520 --> 1:19:01.040 If you don't sign that band. You're you're the dumbest 1:19:01.120 --> 1:19:05.120 person that I know. And and Clive said, we were 1:19:05.240 --> 1:19:07.920 on our way to discuss that before you stopped us. 1:19:08.960 --> 1:19:11.639 And we went and we worked out a record deal 1:19:11.720 --> 1:19:14.320 for the Outlaws, and you know, we put we we 1:19:14.439 --> 1:19:20.320 went to l A recorded the first record, and all 1:19:20.360 --> 1:19:23.000 of a sudden we were on the radio all over 1:19:23.080 --> 1:19:24.880 the place in FM radio. We had a couple of 1:19:25.000 --> 1:19:27.400 songs on the radio. There Goes another love song, green 1:19:27.520 --> 1:19:30.479 Grass was on all the FM stations. And then I 1:19:30.600 --> 1:19:34.120 got a call from a guy named Dan Winer, and 1:19:34.360 --> 1:19:38.519 Dan said, or at Michael Kleffner that was at Arista, 1:19:38.920 --> 1:19:42.040 had me called Dan Winer. And Dan Winer said, I've 1:19:42.080 --> 1:19:45.080 got this tour this summer that that uh that you 1:19:45.200 --> 1:19:47.760 guys could be Outlaws could be the opening act. It's 1:19:47.840 --> 1:19:51.599 it's all arenas and it's the Doobie Brothers. And we did. 1:19:51.800 --> 1:19:53.720 We did all the arenas with the Doobie Brothers, and 1:19:53.760 --> 1:19:55.960 when we got off on the other side, we were 1:19:56.000 --> 1:19:59.439 selling thousands that you know, whatever amount of tickets everywhere 1:19:59.520 --> 1:20:04.759 and you know, let's see, that's that's seventy five, seventy 1:20:05.200 --> 1:20:12.040 that's seventy five and seventy nine, we headlined Madison Square Garden. Okay, wait, well, 1:20:12.120 --> 1:20:16.759 let's go back a few chapters. Do you have any siblings? Sister? 1:20:17.280 --> 1:20:23.200 She my sister Phyllis. My introduction to her was when 1:20:23.240 --> 1:20:26.280 I was christened. I was upstairs in a basinet and 1:20:26.320 --> 1:20:28.800 everybody was bringing me presents downstairs, and she was like 1:20:28.920 --> 1:20:31.120 six years old, and she came up and slapped me 1:20:31.200 --> 1:20:34.160 in the face because she was pissed off because because 1:20:34.360 --> 1:20:36.439 I was getting all the presents and she wasn't getting 1:20:36.520 --> 1:20:39.800 the attention that she had had for six years. And 1:20:40.360 --> 1:20:44.639 she worked for me for I don't know, she worked 1:20:44.640 --> 1:20:47.280 for me for probably twenty twenty five years or something 1:20:47.320 --> 1:20:50.120 like that. She went through good times, bad times, all 1:20:50.200 --> 1:20:55.280 that kind of stuff, and then maybe maybe four or 1:20:55.720 --> 1:20:57.840 four years ago or something like that, she retired. She's 1:20:58.400 --> 1:21:01.200 she's she's six years old to the max. She's she's 1:21:01.280 --> 1:21:03.640 seventy eight. She'll beat She'll be seventy nine this year. 1:21:04.960 --> 1:21:08.759 Why did you move to Florida to start a promotion company? 1:21:08.840 --> 1:21:11.280 They're fifty states, you're from the Midwest. 1:21:11.640 --> 1:21:15.360 The weather, the weather it was. I'd love to say 1:21:15.400 --> 1:21:17.800 that there was some kind of a real, kind of 1:21:17.960 --> 1:21:20.960 thoughtful process in it. We like, you know, me and 1:21:21.040 --> 1:21:23.519 the guy that that I started with, we we liked Florida, 1:21:23.520 --> 1:21:25.200 and we were like, hey, hey, where do we want 1:21:25.200 --> 1:21:26.400 to go in Florida. Well, we don't want to be 1:21:26.479 --> 1:21:28.840 in South Florida, so let's go to Tampa. So we 1:21:28.880 --> 1:21:31.400 went to Tampa and and quite frankly, if we don't 1:21:31.479 --> 1:21:38.200 make that decision, probably nothing happens because I don't end 1:21:38.280 --> 1:21:40.920 up on that hill at the University of South Florida 1:21:41.000 --> 1:21:44.320 that night. Okay, since you mentioned how'd you meet your wife? 1:21:47.320 --> 1:21:54.240 How did I meet my wife? Where? Oh? Oh, yeah, 1:21:54.280 --> 1:21:57.840 that's right. How did I miss that? Okay? A friend 1:21:57.880 --> 1:22:03.600 of mine, George Capellini, was the the head of some 1:22:04.040 --> 1:22:09.040 some division of national promotion for Geffen Records, and he 1:22:09.280 --> 1:22:14.200 was having a listening party at at at the Rich 1:22:14.280 --> 1:22:19.960 Carlton for Robbie Robertson, and I was in between wives 1:22:20.080 --> 1:22:22.920 at the time. I was I was I was newly 1:22:23.320 --> 1:22:28.120 newly divorced again. Wait wait, wait, how many times you've 1:22:28.120 --> 1:22:32.760 been married? I've been I've been married four times to 1:22:32.880 --> 1:22:37.679 three women. Okay, which one of the one? There's one, 1:22:38.000 --> 1:22:40.760 there's two, and then there's three and four and three 1:22:40.800 --> 1:22:44.720 and four Cindya is both okay, continue the story, all right. 1:22:44.840 --> 1:22:50.599 So so, so I I was. I was dating Uh, 1:22:51.960 --> 1:22:57.040 a newscaster that was on CNN and was a kind 1:22:57.080 --> 1:23:02.040 of like a local celebrity. But things weren't that great 1:23:02.160 --> 1:23:05.000 between us, and she was she was always like if 1:23:05.000 --> 1:23:07.320 we were going, if we were meeting somewhere, she was 1:23:07.400 --> 1:23:11.720 always late or anything whatever. And she's going to meet 1:23:11.800 --> 1:23:14.519 me and a friend of mine. They're going to meet 1:23:14.600 --> 1:23:21.320 us at this listening party. So so we're She's late 1:23:21.360 --> 1:23:24.720 as always, and we're waiting. We're standing there and I 1:23:24.880 --> 1:23:29.080 look across the room and I see this beautiful redhead 1:23:31.000 --> 1:23:34.240 standing over by where the wine stuff isn't She's dressed 1:23:34.280 --> 1:23:37.240 all in black, and she's not dressed like the rock 1:23:37.320 --> 1:23:39.880 people that are there from radio stations and all that. 1:23:40.040 --> 1:23:42.519 For so, I thought she worked for the rich carl 1:23:43.240 --> 1:23:49.479 So I went over and I said, hey, can I 1:23:49.560 --> 1:23:51.479 thought she was poor and wine for people or whatever. 1:23:51.479 --> 1:23:53.439 And I said, you know, can I have a glass wine? 1:23:53.520 --> 1:23:55.720 She said, yeah, we have anything you want, but you know, 1:23:56.160 --> 1:23:58.600 you know, I don't work here. And I was like, 1:23:58.760 --> 1:24:01.000 oh oh. And so I started talking to her, and 1:24:01.040 --> 1:24:02.920 I'm keeping an eye on the door to see if 1:24:03.000 --> 1:24:05.960 the newscast are showing up and there's nowhere to be 1:24:06.040 --> 1:24:10.000 sid So I said to her, I said, listen, I'll 1:24:10.000 --> 1:24:12.760 tell you the truth. I have I have, I have 1:24:12.880 --> 1:24:15.400 somebody coming here to meet me. But i'd i'd like 1:24:15.479 --> 1:24:17.240 to I'd like to call you. Can Can I get 1:24:17.280 --> 1:24:20.400 your telephone number? And she said yeah, okay, So she 1:24:20.479 --> 1:24:23.280 gave me her phone number. So I went, I went, 1:24:23.439 --> 1:24:26.560 dropped the the newscaster off, and it's like now, like 1:24:26.640 --> 1:24:28.720 one o'clock in the morning or something like that, and 1:24:29.080 --> 1:24:31.400 and I'm headed to my house and you had those phones, 1:24:31.640 --> 1:24:33.840 big huge phones that were so I was like, oh, 1:24:34.040 --> 1:24:36.760 I got her phone number, I'll call her. So I 1:24:36.960 --> 1:24:39.760 called and I said, hey, you know, I just met 1:24:40.120 --> 1:24:43.000 and the person on the other end of the phone said, 1:24:44.360 --> 1:24:46.559 do you know that it's one o'clock in the morning. 1:24:46.800 --> 1:24:49.320 And I don't know? And it was it was her 1:24:49.439 --> 1:24:52.320 mother because she was she was she was in between 1:24:53.200 --> 1:24:55.640 relationships also, and she was living at home for a 1:24:55.680 --> 1:24:59.000 little while. So the next morning, at seven o'clock in 1:24:59.040 --> 1:25:02.320 the morning, she call me and was like, do you 1:25:02.560 --> 1:25:04.599 know that you woke my mother. I was like, oh, 1:25:04.720 --> 1:25:07.479 my god. And and so I said, I said, let 1:25:07.479 --> 1:25:09.040 me let me, let me make this, let me make 1:25:09.120 --> 1:25:11.400 this right for Let's let's go out and have dinner. 1:25:11.400 --> 1:25:15.360 And she said, she said, well, we could do that, 1:25:15.520 --> 1:25:17.160 but I can't do it on this kind of short 1:25:17.240 --> 1:25:20.320 notice because I have I have a son and he's 1:25:20.520 --> 1:25:23.400 he's young. And I said, well, I'll tell you what. 1:25:23.640 --> 1:25:25.720 I have a friend that's that's staying at my house 1:25:25.800 --> 1:25:28.280 and he has a young son. Also, how about if 1:25:28.360 --> 1:25:31.160 the kids stay with him and we'll just go to dinner. 1:25:31.280 --> 1:25:35.639 That's it. We'll just go to dinner. And that started. 1:25:36.400 --> 1:25:41.120 That started, U you know, a thirty some year relationship. 1:25:42.200 --> 1:25:46.320 We've been married twice. Wait, tell me about the divorce. 1:25:46.520 --> 1:25:48.080 In the remarriage, we. 1:25:48.280 --> 1:25:48.880 Just we got. 1:25:49.000 --> 1:25:52.320 We got we're both kind of and we were younger, 1:25:52.439 --> 1:25:55.880 and we were both kind of like overreacting to a 1:25:55.920 --> 1:25:58.680 bunch of stuff that was going on, and we decided 1:25:59.200 --> 1:26:03.000 we we we really got ugly, and we got all 1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:06.559 the way to the point where we had a divorce 1:26:06.640 --> 1:26:10.920 agreement to sign, and we decided to go to have 1:26:11.200 --> 1:26:15.080 dinner to sign the divorce agreement. So we went to 1:26:15.200 --> 1:26:19.640 dinner and we decided at the dinner we didn't want 1:26:19.680 --> 1:26:22.040 we wanted to give it another shot. I called my 1:26:22.160 --> 1:26:25.360 attorney and I said, listen, we're going to rip up 1:26:25.400 --> 1:26:28.040 the agreement. And she said I had a female attorney 1:26:28.280 --> 1:26:31.200 and she said, no, you're not. She said, because you 1:26:31.360 --> 1:26:34.320 have an agreement there. And she said you both should 1:26:34.439 --> 1:26:39.280 sign the agreement because then you'll be divorced and you'll 1:26:39.439 --> 1:26:44.800 start new. And she said, and you can always get remarried. 1:26:45.280 --> 1:26:48.599 She goes, but you've spent all this money for these 1:26:48.680 --> 1:26:52.160 divorce papers. If this doesn't work out in six months, 1:26:52.240 --> 1:26:55.400 you can't use that same divorce agreement. You'll have gotten 1:26:55.520 --> 1:26:58.360 back together and everything will have to be changed again. 1:26:58.720 --> 1:27:01.120 And I was like, I went back to Cindy, and 1:27:01.160 --> 1:27:05.280 Cindy was like, whatever, whatever, we'll we'll, you know, let 1:27:05.439 --> 1:27:08.360 let's let's let's let's get back together. And then we 1:27:08.479 --> 1:27:10.439 had the because it was pretty ugly all the stuff 1:27:10.479 --> 1:27:12.840 that was going on between us, we had to we 1:27:12.920 --> 1:27:15.800 had to go break it to everybody that we were 1:27:16.000 --> 1:27:18.800 that we were getting back together, which which took a 1:27:19.200 --> 1:27:25.000 little while, but you know it it was a it 1:27:25.120 --> 1:27:28.040 was a four month period of time that that we 1:27:28.120 --> 1:27:31.840 would we just you know, it did help. I mean 1:27:31.920 --> 1:27:35.000 it we did cut. We did cut that and put 1:27:35.040 --> 1:27:37.479 that behind and we went forward, and I'll tell you 1:27:37.520 --> 1:27:40.519 a really interesting thing. The first we got married. The 1:27:40.560 --> 1:27:43.280 first time, we got married at the Rich Carlton in 1:27:43.360 --> 1:27:46.000 the same room that we met in Okay. And then 1:27:46.080 --> 1:27:49.000 we had a small amount of people at the actual 1:27:49.040 --> 1:27:51.840 wedding itself, maybe twenty or twenty five family members, and 1:27:52.120 --> 1:27:55.120 Gary Rossington was in the in the wedding and or 1:27:55.160 --> 1:27:58.840 in the ceremony and all that stuff. And and then 1:27:58.960 --> 1:28:03.920 we had the reception at the Fox Theater for three 1:28:04.120 --> 1:28:08.240 hundred people. That was the first wedding. The second wedding 1:28:08.640 --> 1:28:11.200 was after Stix. We did these big nine to eleven 1:28:11.479 --> 1:28:15.839 uh nine to eleven benefits in in uh Uh, Atlanta 1:28:15.960 --> 1:28:19.640 and Dallas with Sticks and Bad Company in Kansas and 1:28:19.800 --> 1:28:21.519 Leonard Skinner and all that, and we raised a bunch 1:28:21.560 --> 1:28:24.120 of money for the Port Authority Police Department. We did. 1:28:24.280 --> 1:28:26.519 We did two nights back to back, and we were 1:28:26.600 --> 1:28:29.400 going on vacation. Right after that, we went to Nevas 1:28:30.120 --> 1:28:32.439 and we were we were because of everything that was 1:28:32.520 --> 1:28:34.920 going on and everything like that. When we got to 1:28:35.080 --> 1:28:40.200 Nevas uh Uh, she said to me, you said, whenever 1:28:40.439 --> 1:28:42.680 we felt like we could get we we we we. 1:28:42.960 --> 1:28:44.960 All I had to say was I was ready to 1:28:45.000 --> 1:28:47.280 get remarried and you'd be good with it. And I 1:28:47.400 --> 1:28:49.920 said yeah, and she said, let's get married. And I 1:28:50.000 --> 1:28:54.120 said when she said Saturday? And I said, I said 1:28:54.320 --> 1:28:56.760 really and she said yeah. And I said, well, you know, 1:28:56.920 --> 1:28:58.680 let's find out what we got to do. Well, you 1:28:58.800 --> 1:29:02.240 gotta you gotta have of you know, the blessing or 1:29:02.320 --> 1:29:05.400 the You got to go to the magistrate. That's the 1:29:05.720 --> 1:29:08.400 that's basically the mayor of Nevs or the governor of 1:29:08.439 --> 1:29:10.439 Neivas or whatever it is. You got to meet with 1:29:10.520 --> 1:29:12.920 them and they get So we went in and we 1:29:13.080 --> 1:29:15.800 gave them our passports. Well, she hadn't changed her passport 1:29:16.000 --> 1:29:20.160 from Cindy Bruscoe because during that time period there was 1:29:20.200 --> 1:29:23.040 no reason to change your passport. We were only split 1:29:23.120 --> 1:29:25.080 up for you know, for four months or whatever it was. 1:29:25.720 --> 1:29:28.599 So the woman looks at the passports and she looks 1:29:28.640 --> 1:29:31.519 at Charlie Bruscowe and she goes, she looks at Cindy 1:29:31.600 --> 1:29:33.400 Bruscoe and she looks back at us, and she goes, 1:29:35.360 --> 1:29:38.920 what's your two relationship? Because if you're related, we can't 1:29:39.000 --> 1:29:44.000 marry you done. And I was like what and she 1:29:44.200 --> 1:29:46.560 was like, you both have the same last name. And 1:29:46.640 --> 1:29:49.320 I goes, oh, no, no, no, we've we've been the divorced, 1:29:49.360 --> 1:29:52.839 and she said, okay, I need to see your divorce papers. 1:29:53.520 --> 1:29:57.160 So we had to hit the attorneys and and this 1:29:57.360 --> 1:29:59.880 is all happening in one week. We had to get 1:30:00.120 --> 1:30:02.080 all are we had to get whatever the amount of 1:30:02.120 --> 1:30:04.479 pages that this divorce agreep was. We had to get 1:30:04.920 --> 1:30:08.360 that faxed down to the Rich Car No, the Four 1:30:08.439 --> 1:30:11.880 Seasons Hotel in Navas. We had to get it faxed there. 1:30:12.160 --> 1:30:15.320 Then we had to go back downtown show her the paperwork. 1:30:15.840 --> 1:30:20.479 And the second wedding was held on the between the 1:30:21.680 --> 1:30:24.400 eighteenth hole of the golf course at Navas and the 1:30:24.680 --> 1:30:26.960 and the ocean and the and the and the beach 1:30:27.840 --> 1:30:31.640 and the two of us and three people that we 1:30:31.720 --> 1:30:34.680 didn't know that. We had to have the person that 1:30:34.800 --> 1:30:37.880 did the ceremony, and then we had to have someone 1:30:37.960 --> 1:30:39.880 that was a witness, and then there was somebody else there. 1:30:40.160 --> 1:30:43.040 So we went from having a wedding with you know, 1:30:43.800 --> 1:30:46.200 an afterthing of three hundred people to just the two 1:30:46.240 --> 1:30:48.400 of us and that and that's the one that worked. 1:30:56.160 --> 1:30:58.280 How many kids do you have and what are they too? 1:31:00.160 --> 1:31:07.960 We both have a child. Mine is my daughter. Her 1:31:08.040 --> 1:31:13.320 name is Rhiannon. She's she has a we have a 1:31:13.400 --> 1:31:19.000 granddaughter with her, Lucia, who's just turned eleven. And grandchildren 1:31:19.160 --> 1:31:25.439 are the best thing that happens to you. Children are 1:31:26.240 --> 1:31:29.080 much more of a problem than grandchildren because because children 1:31:29.160 --> 1:31:32.760 stay with you, grand your grandchildren go home. And then 1:31:33.840 --> 1:31:37.840 Cindy's son, which is not my son, but he calls 1:31:37.920 --> 1:31:42.599 me dad, and he's been with me for thirty thirty 1:31:42.680 --> 1:31:46.240 some years or whatever and works for me and has 1:31:46.280 --> 1:31:53.519 worked in my office for thirteen fourteen years. He has 1:31:54.240 --> 1:31:59.960 a nine year old son, Landon. That just is there 1:32:00.640 --> 1:32:03.360 those two kids or you know, that's that's that's the 1:32:03.800 --> 1:32:06.760 the except for that, they're the most enjoyable part of 1:32:06.840 --> 1:32:10.760 everything that we do. You know, I have Cindy was, 1:32:10.880 --> 1:32:13.040 Cindy was, I think you're in Colorado. But Cindy was 1:32:13.080 --> 1:32:16.479 in Colorado for her birthday with her girlfriend last week. 1:32:16.800 --> 1:32:19.639 She does that every year. Last last year I went 1:32:19.760 --> 1:32:22.720 because I had stick, explained at the Valars Center on 1:32:22.800 --> 1:32:28.320 her birthday. But uh, she was in Colorado and she 1:32:28.479 --> 1:32:32.880 was coming back on Saturday. But Friday night, Justin and 1:32:32.960 --> 1:32:36.080 his and his and his uh his girlfriend that they 1:32:36.160 --> 1:32:39.080 wanted to go out somewhere, so they were like, hey, 1:32:39.120 --> 1:32:41.280 would you would you watch Landing? And can he stay 1:32:41.360 --> 1:32:45.800 overnight at the house. So everybody was like, oh my god, 1:32:46.160 --> 1:32:49.040 we're leaving Landing with with Pap. Pap. This is never 1:32:49.120 --> 1:32:51.320 gonna work. You know, the house is you know, the 1:32:51.600 --> 1:32:54.240 house is going to burn down or whatever. And and 1:32:54.760 --> 1:32:58.000 Landing came over and you know, we you know, he 1:32:58.120 --> 1:33:01.160 and I, he and I get along. Just unbelievable. I mean, 1:33:01.600 --> 1:33:03.920 it was funny. He was he's gotten really into like 1:33:04.120 --> 1:33:08.280 the the He wasn't a football fan, but he's now 1:33:08.360 --> 1:33:12.120 become a football fan and he's a he's a Mahones 1:33:12.240 --> 1:33:14.479 fan and all that. And he we were we were 1:33:14.479 --> 1:33:17.160 getting ready to go to bed, and uh and we 1:33:17.280 --> 1:33:19.840 were in bed and he had his iPad out and 1:33:19.880 --> 1:33:21.479 I had my phone out and I was looking at 1:33:21.520 --> 1:33:23.880 some stuff and he was googling stuff. And I said, 1:33:25.240 --> 1:33:29.000 he Landing, what's Patrick Mahones? What's how big is his contract? 1:33:29.160 --> 1:33:31.439 So he googles and he's telling me with Patrick Mahones 1:33:31.680 --> 1:33:34.000 And I said, so he must be the highest paid 1:33:34.280 --> 1:33:38.479 quarterback in the NFL. And he said, without googling anything, 1:33:38.560 --> 1:33:41.080 he said, no, no, no, that's Joe Burrow. And I go, 1:33:41.320 --> 1:33:43.400 how do you know that. He goes, well, I know 1:33:43.520 --> 1:33:45.400 a lot of stuff, and I go, yeah, well, let's 1:33:45.400 --> 1:33:48.840 see how much you know. And so I googled myself 1:33:49.920 --> 1:33:52.760 and the stuff that pulls up on me pulled up 1:33:52.800 --> 1:33:56.360 on me and he and I said, I said, land 1:33:56.439 --> 1:33:59.320 and look there there there there, I can google myself 1:33:59.360 --> 1:34:02.040 and look. And he looked at it and he was like, 1:34:03.200 --> 1:34:06.080 you're in thee You're in the Hall of Fame. And 1:34:06.240 --> 1:34:09.479 I go, yeah, I'm in the Georgia Music Hall of Fame. 1:34:09.640 --> 1:34:12.400 You didn't know that, And he goes, no, he goes, 1:34:12.479 --> 1:34:15.800 but there's pictures of you at the you know, being 1:34:15.880 --> 1:34:19.320 inducted into the in and look at Mimi's that he 1:34:19.360 --> 1:34:22.560 calls Cindy Memi. Mimi's there too, is me me in 1:34:22.640 --> 1:34:24.479 the Hall of Fame? And I go, yeah, that she's 1:34:24.560 --> 1:34:26.400 in the Hall of Fame too, I go, I go, 1:34:26.960 --> 1:34:31.080 I go. And he was just he was fascinated by that, 1:34:31.160 --> 1:34:34.719 because everything that he does, he does you know, he's 1:34:36.040 --> 1:34:40.160 like I would this is this is how it looks 1:34:40.240 --> 1:34:43.719 to me. When I was growing up and I started 1:34:43.760 --> 1:34:46.560 getting albums, I used to like, look at all the 1:34:46.720 --> 1:34:49.000 liner notes and I used to take everything out and 1:34:49.160 --> 1:34:52.280 read everything and who was the who is the producer, 1:34:52.360 --> 1:34:54.519 who was the manager, who was the band? Who was 1:34:55.080 --> 1:34:57.240 I got everything from all of that kind of stuff. 1:34:57.560 --> 1:35:00.320 He does all of that stuff, you know online. I 1:35:00.400 --> 1:35:03.240 mean he googles everything. And my my granddaughter is the 1:35:03.280 --> 1:35:07.400 same way. It's you know, it's it's it we're not, 1:35:07.880 --> 1:35:10.680 you know, we're not what. How we grew up is 1:35:10.760 --> 1:35:13.439 so different from how they're growing up now. But it's 1:35:13.479 --> 1:35:16.640 wonderful to watch them. I mean, it's they're they're you know, 1:35:17.320 --> 1:35:20.680 the the and and I I don't want to downplay 1:35:20.800 --> 1:35:26.559 the kids. We got great kids. They've both had their 1:35:26.880 --> 1:35:29.439 there they're different issues here and there and all that, 1:35:29.600 --> 1:35:33.880 but they're great. My daughter was a was went to 1:35:33.960 --> 1:35:36.800 law school. She was an attorney at Greenberg Trialing. Then 1:35:36.840 --> 1:35:40.040 she became a judge in Cobb County. And then she 1:35:40.160 --> 1:35:42.760 got diagnosed with MS, so she had to go on 1:35:42.920 --> 1:35:46.719 disability and and but she's a stay at home mom 1:35:47.240 --> 1:35:50.040 and she's she's extremely happy to be a stay at 1:35:50.080 --> 1:35:54.000 home mom. And then Justin has Justin does I mean, 1:35:54.040 --> 1:35:56.040 he not only works for me, he's got his own, 1:35:56.520 --> 1:35:59.000 he's got other stuff that he does on his own. 1:35:59.040 --> 1:36:01.839 He's got his own like he's got a DJ company 1:36:01.960 --> 1:36:04.840 that him and a bunch of guys dj different kind 1:36:04.880 --> 1:36:07.559 of stuff. And they own all their you know, their 1:36:07.600 --> 1:36:10.400 own equipment and all that stuff. I mean, it's you 1:36:10.479 --> 1:36:14.519 know it, you know, it's it's great. It's it's great. 1:36:14.600 --> 1:36:18.439 Having We've always been a fairly tight family. I mean, 1:36:18.760 --> 1:36:22.840 all the way around, it's been it's been like that. 1:36:24.120 --> 1:36:26.160 Okay, let's go back to the guys who gave you 1:36:26.240 --> 1:36:29.880 the money in Pittsburgh. Whatever happened to that money, lost 1:36:29.960 --> 1:36:33.200 it Alice Cooper at Tampa Stadium. The show got canceled, 1:36:33.280 --> 1:36:37.400 lost lost one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars in 1:36:38.200 --> 1:36:46.080 nineteen seventy three or four money, so you can imagine, 1:36:46.200 --> 1:36:50.719 you know, I was paying Alice and the show didn't sell, 1:36:51.280 --> 1:36:54.200 and then then a cold front came into Tampa, so 1:36:54.680 --> 1:36:56.800 we had to cancel the show, and they kept the money, 1:36:57.200 --> 1:36:59.479 and I had to pay all the bills and pay 1:36:59.520 --> 1:37:03.880 all that stuff, and was basically tapped out. And and 1:37:04.080 --> 1:37:07.439 the only the only chance that I had, you know, 1:37:07.600 --> 1:37:08.479 doing anything, was. 1:37:08.520 --> 1:37:10.760 The fact that I managed the Outlaws, and that was 1:37:11.000 --> 1:37:13.600 I picked it up from there and and just you know, 1:37:13.760 --> 1:37:18.120 ran with it, got got lucky. A bunch what did 1:37:18.160 --> 1:37:22.320 the people say about you losing their money? It was 1:37:22.560 --> 1:37:25.640 it was both both of them, you know, it was 1:37:25.840 --> 1:37:28.320 it was somewhat not play money, but you know it 1:37:28.479 --> 1:37:32.280 was you know that they they the the one guy, 1:37:32.720 --> 1:37:37.000 his father had had some businesses that spit off a 1:37:37.120 --> 1:37:39.360 ton of cash, so they were looking for things to 1:37:39.439 --> 1:37:42.720 do with cash. And and the other my my partner's 1:37:42.960 --> 1:37:46.080 father was you know, it was it was a millionaire 1:37:46.200 --> 1:37:48.000 back then when it was a big deal to be 1:37:48.040 --> 1:37:48.559 a millionaire. 1:37:49.840 --> 1:37:52.680 Okay, you got the thing with the Outlaws, but you 1:37:53.439 --> 1:37:55.799 continue to ultimately promote concerts. 1:37:55.840 --> 1:38:00.400 How does that happen? Actually? When when the Outlaw? When 1:38:00.479 --> 1:38:05.599 the Outlaws and I parted ways in nineteen eighty two 1:38:05.880 --> 1:38:11.519 or eighty three. Around that time period, I had money, 1:38:12.920 --> 1:38:16.120 and I had relationships with a lot of agents, and 1:38:16.640 --> 1:38:20.600 I made some offers on first first dates that I 1:38:20.720 --> 1:38:27.640 got was kiss and I started promoting shows, and you know, 1:38:27.880 --> 1:38:33.880 I did what I did for a while, changed partnership 1:38:34.040 --> 1:38:38.080 kind of things a couple of different times. And then 1:38:38.360 --> 1:38:41.200 and Alex Cooley and I were kind of always like 1:38:42.560 --> 1:38:47.519 we were making offers on shows, and you know, he'd 1:38:47.600 --> 1:38:50.400 offer twenty five thousand out offer thirty five thousand hit 1:38:50.479 --> 1:38:53.160 offer forty five thousand out off for fifty the band 1:38:53.280 --> 1:38:55.479 was still only worth twenty five if they were worth that. 1:38:56.080 --> 1:38:58.120 So were we were running it up on each other. 1:38:58.240 --> 1:39:00.559 And one day we ran into each other and there 1:39:00.680 --> 1:39:03.519 was this this thing. Alex and I knew each other 1:39:03.640 --> 1:39:06.479 from the Outlaws days and he promoted shows for me 1:39:06.640 --> 1:39:09.200 and all that, and and we ran into each other 1:39:09.280 --> 1:39:11.840 and we kind of just I was like, and it 1:39:11.960 --> 1:39:14.240 was over like a Motley Crew date and he had 1:39:14.280 --> 1:39:17.800 made an offer on Motley that was ridiculous for like 1:39:17.880 --> 1:39:20.439 a Monday night. And I was like, you know you're 1:39:20.479 --> 1:39:24.080 paying Motley. You know they're getting the bands are making 1:39:24.120 --> 1:39:27.120 all the money, you know. And Alex said, well, why 1:39:27.120 --> 1:39:29.880 don't you you know, why don't you come with us? 1:39:29.920 --> 1:39:33.479 Why don't you come joined Concerts Southern and and we'll 1:39:34.000 --> 1:39:38.600 join forces together. So I did that in UH in 1:39:38.840 --> 1:39:44.639 eighty seven eighty six, and that's when this the during 1:39:44.760 --> 1:39:48.160 that time period, that's when the skinnered thing came up, 1:39:48.240 --> 1:39:50.519 and that's when I started getting the management thing. 1:39:50.920 --> 1:39:52.200 So I I I. 1:39:53.680 --> 1:40:01.839 Got a call from UH from or Ving, and Irving 1:40:01.960 --> 1:40:05.360 told me that that he wanted me to go look 1:40:05.439 --> 1:40:08.080 at something. But he wanted me to look at it 1:40:08.320 --> 1:40:11.840 on my own because because there was going to be 1:40:12.800 --> 1:40:17.479 He said, you know what STARplex is in in uh Dallas, 1:40:18.520 --> 1:40:22.920 There's going to be a STARplex in Atlanta, and it's 1:40:23.000 --> 1:40:27.600 going to be He was Irving was at m c 1:40:27.760 --> 1:40:30.760 A at the time, so he was the head of 1:40:30.920 --> 1:40:34.280 m c A, which also had the concert division with Jay, 1:40:34.600 --> 1:40:39.519 and he said, he said, uh, m c A and 1:40:39.720 --> 1:40:43.000 Pace are going to build this place, and we want 1:40:43.120 --> 1:40:47.519 you to come with us. And and so I I 1:40:47.720 --> 1:40:54.320 flew out to to to Jackson Hole to meet with 1:40:54.479 --> 1:40:58.720 Gary and to let Gary know that I was that 1:40:59.040 --> 1:41:00.519 that it looked like I was going to do this, 1:41:01.080 --> 1:41:05.519 and that that that you know, Uh that that that's 1:41:05.560 --> 1:41:10.240 how how I was going to leave. Uh Cooley and 1:41:10.320 --> 1:41:14.360 Conlin and Wallace Barr was a guy that worked in 1:41:14.439 --> 1:41:17.280 the office with me, and he did all the closed 1:41:17.320 --> 1:41:20.240 circuit boxing stuff with Bob Aram, so he had kind 1:41:20.280 --> 1:41:22.640 of like a little bit of a business also. So 1:41:22.840 --> 1:41:24.800 we made it. We just made a deal with m 1:41:24.880 --> 1:41:27.439 c A and and Pace to back us and a 1:41:27.479 --> 1:41:32.400 company that we called Brusco Bar Presents, and we we 1:41:32.720 --> 1:41:37.920 left Cooley Conlin not on great terms, and we had 1:41:38.000 --> 1:41:45.479 this Amphitheater and and I had relationships with Doc McGhee 1:41:45.560 --> 1:41:48.200 and bon Jovi and Motley and all you know and 1:41:49.000 --> 1:41:51.920 different different other agents and all that stuff. And we 1:41:52.160 --> 1:41:56.840 just started doing shows and from until ninety one, we 1:41:56.960 --> 1:42:02.560 were we were killing it. And then the all the 1:42:02.680 --> 1:42:07.000 business started shifting for how much you could lose on 1:42:07.160 --> 1:42:10.280 a show, Like you know, you used to be if 1:42:10.320 --> 1:42:13.040 you lost twenty grand on a show, you know, you 1:42:13.160 --> 1:42:17.080 were like completely miserable. People were losing, you know, one 1:42:17.160 --> 1:42:19.760 hundred thousand dollars on a show. Guarantees were out of 1:42:19.840 --> 1:42:23.560 control and all that stuff. And I was getting skinnered, 1:42:23.720 --> 1:42:26.559 was back in ninety one, and I was getting offers 1:42:26.640 --> 1:42:28.360 for skinnered and everything like that, and I was like, 1:42:28.960 --> 1:42:32.639 why do I want to be, you know, making these 1:42:32.640 --> 1:42:35.720 stupid offers and dealing with all this stuff, and you know, 1:42:35.880 --> 1:42:38.720 going back and forth and trading money on winners and 1:42:38.840 --> 1:42:41.439 losers and all that. And I just was like, I'm 1:42:41.520 --> 1:42:45.760 going I'm staying in the I'm getting out of the 1:42:46.120 --> 1:42:51.360 promoting business. I did a deal with with with with 1:42:51.520 --> 1:42:54.320 Pace and MCA Concerts for a couple of years. I 1:42:54.439 --> 1:42:57.800 consulted on Lakewood after it had already been built, and 1:42:58.920 --> 1:43:00.800 we that was up and run and everything like that. 1:43:01.320 --> 1:43:06.439 And I stayed out of the promotion business until we 1:43:06.920 --> 1:43:12.080 were doing the Skinner and Sticks tours that were set 1:43:12.200 --> 1:43:18.200 for ninety six and Jack Boyle was going to promote 1:43:18.400 --> 1:43:20.559 both of those tours and he was going to put 1:43:20.600 --> 1:43:24.000 them through the amphitheaters and all this other stuff. And 1:43:24.640 --> 1:43:26.720 there was a guy in his office that I was 1:43:26.840 --> 1:43:30.040 dealing with on the tours that we were getting we 1:43:30.160 --> 1:43:33.360 were setting up, and his name was Bruce Cap And 1:43:34.080 --> 1:43:37.080 Jack Boyle called me on the phone and he said, 1:43:38.640 --> 1:43:41.719 I'm just going to tell you this. I'm getting ready 1:43:41.760 --> 1:43:44.760 to go down the hall and he goes, I can't 1:43:44.800 --> 1:43:46.880 put up with Bruce. Bruce and I don't get along. 1:43:47.200 --> 1:43:49.880 I'm letting Bruce go. And he's going to call you 1:43:50.520 --> 1:43:54.479 and he said, if you want to us to do 1:43:55.400 --> 1:44:03.160 the skinnerd and the the uh the Sticks tours, then 1:44:04.040 --> 1:44:07.040 we'll we'll do them. But if you don't, you know, 1:44:07.760 --> 1:44:09.800 and you want to do something with Bruce, you guys 1:44:09.840 --> 1:44:12.479 can you guys can take that over. We'll we'll we'll 1:44:12.560 --> 1:44:16.840 sign it all over to you. So we we we 1:44:17.000 --> 1:44:20.439 had Bruce called me. We had a mutual friend that 1:44:20.560 --> 1:44:24.360 Dennis D. Young had that did theater stuff that had 1:44:24.920 --> 1:44:29.360 bugged Dennis about about doing U Stick States and I 1:44:30.280 --> 1:44:34.000 His name was wash Lee Marshall. He was he was 1:44:34.080 --> 1:44:38.160 really in the play business. And we called Lee Marshall 1:44:38.320 --> 1:44:42.479 and a guy named Joe marsh and like the following Monday, 1:44:42.600 --> 1:44:45.639 we had a meeting with them and they said, we'll 1:44:45.680 --> 1:44:48.080 back both of those tours. We'll put all the money up, 1:44:48.640 --> 1:44:51.120 We'll back both of those tours. And we started doing 1:44:51.720 --> 1:44:56.680 not individual cities, but we started doing national tours and 1:44:56.760 --> 1:44:59.479 we did this this the Skinner Tour and the Sticks 1:44:59.520 --> 1:45:04.519 Tour and then and then then when it came then 1:45:05.120 --> 1:45:08.439 Irving did they had they did the Big Eagles Tour. 1:45:09.080 --> 1:45:13.280 Hell Freeze is over and Joe or Lee called me 1:45:13.360 --> 1:45:17.639 on the phone one day with Louis and they were like, hey, 1:45:18.600 --> 1:45:23.600 we want to make an offer to Fleetwood Mac. And 1:45:24.040 --> 1:45:26.960 it's a lot of money. Back then, it was four 1:45:27.040 --> 1:45:30.080 hundred thousand dollars a show. And they said, you know, 1:45:30.400 --> 1:45:32.120 we're going to make an offer on the whole tour. 1:45:32.240 --> 1:45:36.679 So we're gonna are you are you are you in? Yeah? Okay, yeah, 1:45:36.920 --> 1:45:39.080 we're doing it. We got the we we got the 1:45:39.120 --> 1:45:41.599 Fleetwood Mac tour. We did we did the Flate Fleetwood 1:45:41.640 --> 1:45:45.200 Mac First Reunion Tour. We sold some shows to some promoters, 1:45:45.400 --> 1:45:47.320 but we promoted most of the shows all the way 1:45:47.320 --> 1:45:52.600 across across the board. Then Bruce started talking with s 1:45:52.760 --> 1:45:55.720 f X and he got an offer from SFX and 1:45:55.960 --> 1:46:00.360 didn't tell us anything about it. Left like in the 1:46:00.439 --> 1:46:03.920 middle of the night, went to SFX, started SFX touring 1:46:04.040 --> 1:46:08.240 with with with Division with with with Sullivan Sullivan and 1:46:09.760 --> 1:46:13.920 and basically started telling everybody that that we weren't doing 1:46:14.040 --> 1:46:18.439 tours anymore. And somebody called me up, a friend of mine, 1:46:19.040 --> 1:46:22.200 uh called me up on the phone and said, Hey, 1:46:22.400 --> 1:46:24.679 you guys are doing tours. I got a tour that's 1:46:24.720 --> 1:46:26.600 going out. I don't know if you'd be interested in it, 1:46:27.000 --> 1:46:30.240 but it's Janet Jackson. And it was the Janet Jackson 1:46:30.400 --> 1:46:33.880 Velvet Rope Tour. And Bruce had just left, and we 1:46:34.040 --> 1:46:36.880 made a deal to do the Janet Jackson Velvet Rope 1:46:36.920 --> 1:46:41.800 Tour fifty six states across the United States, and you know, 1:46:42.479 --> 1:46:45.160 you know, two days at the Garden with HBO special 1:46:45.640 --> 1:46:49.920 and did it with Roger Davies and and then after that, 1:46:50.640 --> 1:46:54.960 I basically I didn't want to keep on promoting against 1:46:55.040 --> 1:46:59.000 and and that I felt like that was the big time. 1:46:59.080 --> 1:47:03.840 And and s FX came courting Magic to buy Magic productions, 1:47:04.320 --> 1:47:08.680 and I was like, get me paid and and and 1:47:09.240 --> 1:47:12.240 let's move on. And I'm going, I'm gonna, I'm I'm 1:47:12.560 --> 1:47:15.240 just doing I was doing Skinnered and sticks at the 1:47:15.280 --> 1:47:18.560 same time, and I was like, I'm I'm I'm not 1:47:18.680 --> 1:47:21.519 promoting anymore, and I haven't. I haven't promoted since then. 1:47:21.560 --> 1:47:25.200 I had. The last real big thing that that I 1:47:25.320 --> 1:47:28.439 did as a promoter was the Janet Jackson Velvet Rope 1:47:28.479 --> 1:47:31.040 Tour and it was phenomenal, and you know, and that 1:47:31.200 --> 1:47:33.080 was that was a good way for me to end 1:47:33.120 --> 1:47:35.920 at that end of my career. But you got to 1:47:36.000 --> 1:47:39.720 check from sf X, the Magic got a check and 1:47:39.800 --> 1:47:44.040 I got paid from them, right, Okay, so today the 1:47:44.200 --> 1:47:47.920 landscape is different. You've been on both sides of the fence. 1:47:48.960 --> 1:47:52.200 What are the keys to negotiating a deal and what 1:47:52.360 --> 1:47:54.760 are the keys to make sure that you get all 1:47:54.840 --> 1:48:00.599 the money? I'm I'm I'm not an all the money 1:48:00.840 --> 1:48:07.040 kind of promote A manager. I like, I like for 1:48:07.240 --> 1:48:10.800 everybody to try and unless the artist, just the artist 1:48:10.880 --> 1:48:13.280 wants all the money. But if the artist is is 1:48:13.880 --> 1:48:16.920 fair in the negotiations and stuff like that. I I 1:48:17.000 --> 1:48:20.920 don't squeeze everything out of out of everybody. I get 1:48:20.960 --> 1:48:24.160 the best deals that that the artists should get. And 1:48:24.560 --> 1:48:26.360 and I don't beat everybody up. 1:48:26.439 --> 1:48:27.519 I you know, I I. 1:48:29.240 --> 1:48:32.400 That's that's and I actually I don't know that that's 1:48:32.520 --> 1:48:35.600 corn style either. I mean, there are artists that you 1:48:35.720 --> 1:48:37.960 represent that they you know, they want you to get 1:48:38.040 --> 1:48:40.920 everything out of everybody. I mean that that's it's it's 1:48:41.080 --> 1:48:44.240 artists driven. I mean, you know it. That's that's kind 1:48:44.320 --> 1:48:47.040 that's kind of what sets the tone for for for 1:48:47.160 --> 1:48:49.360 how you're going to handle it. And quite frankly, the 1:48:49.920 --> 1:48:52.240 promoters or the buyers or anything like that, they all 1:48:52.320 --> 1:48:54.160 know what the deal is. They know who they got 1:48:54.280 --> 1:48:56.920 to overpay and who they who they can make fair 1:48:57.000 --> 1:48:59.720 deals with and and listen, a fair deal maybe that 1:49:00.439 --> 1:49:03.080 you know, the promoters, you know, the promoters still making 1:49:03.240 --> 1:49:06.360 very little profit. But but if they're if they're good 1:49:06.400 --> 1:49:10.840 with it, then it's then it's good. You know, Okay, 1:49:11.000 --> 1:49:17.040 but if you squeeze every penny out, what's the downside 1:49:17.080 --> 1:49:22.280 of them? The downside of it is is that that 1:49:22.920 --> 1:49:26.439 you do that enough times and nobody makes any money. 1:49:27.880 --> 1:49:30.639 You know, you have, you have very little options left 1:49:30.680 --> 1:49:31.519 of who you work for. 1:49:33.280 --> 1:49:36.240 So speaking of who you work for, you know Live 1:49:36.400 --> 1:49:40.160 Nation is the behemoth, then there's a g there are 1:49:40.200 --> 1:49:43.600 still some independence. Who do you like to work with? 1:49:43.800 --> 1:49:45.080 It doesn't make any difference. 1:49:45.760 --> 1:49:47.479 I work with I work with all of them. I've 1:49:47.479 --> 1:49:50.400 got to I've got tours out this summer that we're 1:49:50.479 --> 1:49:55.240 involved with that are Live Nation, Hearts a an aeg 1:49:55.520 --> 1:49:59.760 toor I do individual dates all the time with Out 1:50:00.360 --> 1:50:06.040 and Pepper and Mammoth, we I we, I work with. 1:50:06.200 --> 1:50:09.120 I work with just about everybody. It's really a situation 1:50:09.439 --> 1:50:14.920 kind of thing. Well, let's ask, you know, before the 1:50:15.040 --> 1:50:19.519 roll up ninety six and now, what's the difference in 1:50:19.640 --> 1:50:25.640 making deals for shows there? There's there's more money. I mean, 1:50:25.680 --> 1:50:28.960 there's there's definitely more money. And it's I think, I 1:50:29.040 --> 1:50:33.920 think in our eyes from our side, it's more transparent, 1:50:35.080 --> 1:50:39.639 whether it's been transparent to us or we found out 1:50:39.720 --> 1:50:42.240 how it's I mean, listen, I was I was a 1:50:43.160 --> 1:50:47.599 I I was a consultant on an amphitheater that opened 1:50:47.640 --> 1:50:50.800 in Atlanta. You know, I've been on the promoter side, 1:50:50.880 --> 1:50:54.120 so I know I know where the money's at. You know, 1:50:54.760 --> 1:50:57.280 you know and you know, so it's you know, you 1:50:57.840 --> 1:51:00.519 make that you make the deals based on what you know, 1:51:01.720 --> 1:51:03.640 you know and and and what the risk is. I 1:51:03.720 --> 1:51:05.360 mean that's you know that that that's. 1:51:05.200 --> 1:51:09.599 What it is. Okay, So the money's bigger. Now any 1:51:09.680 --> 1:51:10.480 other differences. 1:51:12.840 --> 1:51:17.880 I think that I I think that the larger promoters, 1:51:18.840 --> 1:51:23.560 the the Live Nations and the aeg s have have 1:51:24.520 --> 1:51:30.840 more the their their marketing reach is bigger because they're 1:51:30.880 --> 1:51:33.640 doing more shows and they're more involved in you know, 1:51:34.479 --> 1:51:40.519 major market kind of stuff. That's where they live. So 1:51:41.040 --> 1:51:45.439 so I think that you know, they they there, they 1:51:45.520 --> 1:51:49.599 can roll things out on a national level way bigger 1:51:49.760 --> 1:51:55.040 that I think that the independent guys are probably better 1:51:55.160 --> 1:51:59.080 at rolling up their sleeves and doing the theater stuff 1:51:59.240 --> 1:52:01.760 or the arena stuff and secondaries and all that kind 1:52:01.760 --> 1:52:05.240 of stuff, because that's that's where a lot of their 1:52:05.400 --> 1:52:10.280 business is because they're they're not getting major shows in 1:52:10.400 --> 1:52:14.479 Atlanta because either AEG or Live Nations getting it from 1:52:14.560 --> 1:52:18.280 a tour or from just from you know, the offers 1:52:18.320 --> 1:52:22.479 that they make. So do you have a take on 1:52:22.760 --> 1:52:28.840 ticket fees? Do I have a take on it? I 1:52:29.200 --> 1:52:32.760 I think just like everybody else does. I think that 1:52:32.880 --> 1:52:38.439 ticket fees are they're they're not that last article that 1:52:38.600 --> 1:52:42.439 you had. Ticket fees are not really set by the promoter. 1:52:42.920 --> 1:52:45.560 I mean the ticket fees are are a part of 1:52:45.920 --> 1:52:48.840 I would I would not have any problem whatsoever if 1:52:48.920 --> 1:52:53.599 it was one price ticket and everybody everybody saw one 1:52:53.680 --> 1:52:56.599 price ticket, because quite frankly, when I buy, when I buy, 1:52:57.200 --> 1:53:00.240 if I buy a ticket and I buy tickets, I 1:53:00.320 --> 1:53:03.439 would rather see the tickets be. You know, you're paying 1:53:03.920 --> 1:53:07.040 seventy five dollars and you know that when you're pushing 1:53:07.080 --> 1:53:10.320 the button it doesn't go okay. Now here's your checkout stuff, 1:53:10.600 --> 1:53:12.040 and you got to pay for all this other shit 1:53:12.120 --> 1:53:14.840 on top of it. So you would have your acts 1:53:14.920 --> 1:53:18.880 good all in pricing, I would I I would, Yeah, 1:53:18.880 --> 1:53:20.799 it would be, it would be, it would be easier, 1:53:21.080 --> 1:53:24.400 it would be, it would be it would be transparent 1:53:24.479 --> 1:53:29.400 to everybody what the what they're paying for. I don't 1:53:29.439 --> 1:53:31.080 think that for what it is, I don't think that 1:53:31.479 --> 1:53:34.680 the ticket master and all those kind of things are exorbitant. 1:53:34.720 --> 1:53:38.600 Nobody gives Nobody gives them credit for the business that 1:53:38.760 --> 1:53:41.920 and what it costs them to be in business, you know, 1:53:42.400 --> 1:53:47.439 separate from Live Nation. So what's the best show you 1:53:47.520 --> 1:53:55.880 ever saw. What's the best show I ever saw? Wow? 1:53:58.479 --> 1:54:02.759 I mean, you know, I've I've seen this. The Stones 1:54:02.880 --> 1:54:10.680 are probably my favorite band the I saw, but I 1:54:10.760 --> 1:54:15.200 see I saw everybody and kind of like the Heyday. 1:54:15.960 --> 1:54:19.639 So I saw Zeppelin a bunch. I probably saw Zeppelin 1:54:19.680 --> 1:54:23.240 fifteen times. I saw The Who at least ten fifteen times. 1:54:23.360 --> 1:54:26.679 I mean I saw bands when they were really, really 1:54:27.360 --> 1:54:33.520 in their prime. I mean the original Skinnered lineup. There 1:54:33.560 --> 1:54:36.240 were nights that I saw them and the Outlaws play 1:54:36.280 --> 1:54:38.600 together that that I would go like, these guys are 1:54:38.640 --> 1:54:42.280 all on another planet. I mean it, you know, like Skinnered, 1:54:42.520 --> 1:54:45.920 Skinnered in the Outlaws at the at Winterland was was 1:54:46.120 --> 1:54:50.920 just like, you know, total magic, the whole show. So 1:54:51.240 --> 1:54:54.880 I don't know that I have, you know, one one 1:54:55.120 --> 1:54:57.880 show that I look at and go like wow, you know, 1:54:58.000 --> 1:55:02.160 and and you know, my you know, the one thing 1:55:02.200 --> 1:55:05.000 about the lineup that I've got that's my artist. I mean, 1:55:05.400 --> 1:55:09.080 they're they're they they are all pretty great at their craft. 1:55:09.160 --> 1:55:11.600 I mean they're you know, they're they're they all do 1:55:11.920 --> 1:55:15.920 really really good shows. That's part of what attracts me 1:55:16.040 --> 1:55:19.280 to an artist, because that's what I've always went by. 1:55:19.640 --> 1:55:22.680 How good somebody is on stage, Would I pay to 1:55:22.760 --> 1:55:25.480 see that show? Okay? 1:55:26.600 --> 1:55:29.240 One or two personal highlights in your business career? What 1:55:29.320 --> 1:55:30.160 are you most proud of? 1:55:32.800 --> 1:55:37.000 Well, I'm I'm I'm proud of the I'm proud of 1:55:37.160 --> 1:55:39.120 everything that I did with the Outlaws. I'm proud of 1:55:39.200 --> 1:55:45.040 the putting skinner back together. I'm proud of putting sticks 1:55:45.120 --> 1:55:48.840 back together and continuing on as long as that we've 1:55:49.080 --> 1:55:54.760 continued on, and those those benefits that I told you 1:55:54.880 --> 1:55:59.160 about that we did for nine to eleven, the two 1:55:59.320 --> 1:56:05.440 nights we put those shows together in like the shows 1:56:05.480 --> 1:56:09.840 were nine to eleven to October like eighteen, nineteen twenty. 1:56:09.920 --> 1:56:13.320 Somewhere in that time period, we came up with the 1:56:13.560 --> 1:56:16.120 Tommy Shaw and Kevin Cronin came up with the idea. 1:56:16.560 --> 1:56:19.920 We came up with the idea. We got all these 1:56:20.040 --> 1:56:23.160 bands to come in and play. Nobody made any money. 1:56:23.240 --> 1:56:25.560 We gave all the money to the Port Authority Police 1:56:25.840 --> 1:56:30.280 who basically we were the ones that were guarding the 1:56:30.880 --> 1:56:34.120 World Trade Center. But when the money started getting coming 1:56:34.160 --> 1:56:36.880 in and money was going everywhere, it was going to 1:56:37.040 --> 1:56:42.360 the New York Police Department or the New York Fire 1:56:42.400 --> 1:56:45.200 Department all that and the Port Authority police was only 1:56:45.400 --> 1:56:49.440 like a total of like eight hundred people that worked 1:56:49.760 --> 1:56:53.280 for you know, there were forty thousand firemen, and yeah 1:56:53.320 --> 1:56:57.720 they lost you know, thou whatever the number was, these guys. 1:56:57.800 --> 1:57:01.080 Out of eight hundred people, they lost thirty nine people. 1:57:01.240 --> 1:57:04.320 They knew everybody that died in that building. 1:57:04.600 --> 1:57:04.720 You know. 1:57:04.760 --> 1:57:07.040 It wasn't like, oh that guy's from another precinct or 1:57:07.120 --> 1:57:09.400 any of that ship. These guys all knew each other. 1:57:09.760 --> 1:57:11.800 And there was a certain bond that went on with 1:57:12.000 --> 1:57:14.600 us doing those shows. And they sent a couple of 1:57:14.680 --> 1:57:17.880 guys down from the Poort Authority that came to both shows, 1:57:18.000 --> 1:57:22.640 and that those shows were we were were just unbelievable. 1:57:22.680 --> 1:57:26.200 I mean, you know, I did a Alex and Peter 1:57:26.320 --> 1:57:29.240 and I did an Amnesty International show with Bill Graham 1:57:29.680 --> 1:57:33.280 the one year on my birthday at the Omni in Atlanta, 1:57:33.320 --> 1:57:38.000 and the show was like staying you two all these 1:57:38.080 --> 1:57:41.320 people and and it ended up being the police instead 1:57:41.320 --> 1:57:44.560 of instead of instead of stinging, and it was that 1:57:44.800 --> 1:57:48.280 that that was that was magic. And I mean, I've 1:57:48.360 --> 1:57:52.720 got so many magic moments in my career that that 1:57:53.080 --> 1:57:57.240 I that I you know, I don't that whether I 1:57:57.400 --> 1:58:00.400 deserved it or didn't deserve it. I I've gotten way 1:58:00.560 --> 1:58:03.400 way more than my share. I've gotten way more than 1:58:03.440 --> 1:58:06.800 my share. Explain it lamp to in Georgia. To me, 1:58:10.200 --> 1:58:13.080 Atlanta's just a it's a it's a it's a great 1:58:13.200 --> 1:58:18.600 place to live. Uh uh. I'm not going to get 1:58:18.640 --> 1:58:22.320 into the politics and everything like that, but I'm where 1:58:22.520 --> 1:58:25.400 I live, in the neighborhood that I live in. I'm 1:58:25.480 --> 1:58:29.160 not putting any signs up for for who I favor 1:58:29.280 --> 1:58:34.360 in any election, but I live in a great I 1:58:34.440 --> 1:58:38.200 live in a great place. I'm I'm ten minutes from 1:58:38.280 --> 1:58:47.280 my office. I I can pretty much call and I 1:58:48.400 --> 1:58:51.800 mostly insist on buying tickets to shows, even if I 1:58:51.920 --> 1:58:54.520 have relationships with people and stuff like that, because I 1:58:54.680 --> 1:58:57.160 don't like comps. I don't. I don't like them from 1:58:57.240 --> 1:58:59.120 my end, and I don't like to be a guy 1:58:59.200 --> 1:59:00.960 that's calling and going CA, can you give me tickets 1:59:01.000 --> 1:59:03.680 to the show? And sometimes people go like, no, I'm 1:59:03.720 --> 1:59:07.120 not you know, I'm not You're not getting I'm not 1:59:07.360 --> 1:59:09.240 selling you a ticket. I'm giving you a ticket. But 1:59:09.840 --> 1:59:11.920 I can go to any show that I want to 1:59:12.000 --> 1:59:16.360 go to, and I've had I've had options over my 1:59:16.520 --> 1:59:19.320 career early options to like go to New York for 1:59:19.440 --> 1:59:22.600 something and go to l a couple of times. I've 1:59:23.080 --> 1:59:26.680 never It's never been in my head that I'm going 1:59:26.760 --> 1:59:31.760 to get out of Atlanta. You know. I'm I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 1:59:31.880 --> 1:59:34.440 and I'm in the Georgia Music Hall of Fame. I'm 1:59:34.480 --> 1:59:37.160 in the Georgia Music Hall of Fame. But my band 1:59:37.720 --> 1:59:41.080 has the biggest song for the team that I supported 1:59:41.120 --> 1:59:44.160 since I was a young kid, which is Renegade in 1:59:44.200 --> 1:59:47.640 the Pittsburgh Steelers. I mean, you can't make this ship up. 1:59:48.520 --> 1:59:51.360 I mean, it's you know, it's it's you know, it's 1:59:51.480 --> 1:59:54.760 it's a it's it's not bad. And a lot of 1:59:54.800 --> 1:59:58.840 people would probably change, you know, trade places with me. 2:00:00.160 --> 2:00:03.480 And I like where I am and and pretty much 2:00:03.520 --> 2:00:09.080 I like who I am? And where's your money? Where's 2:00:09.120 --> 2:00:11.440 my money? It's in What do you do with it? 2:00:11.520 --> 2:00:13.960 You obviously made a good check of change. Is it 2:00:14.080 --> 2:00:16.640 in stocks? Is in real estate? Do you invest them? 2:00:16.920 --> 2:00:19.280 It's it's it's in all of you. It's in all 2:00:19.320 --> 2:00:23.160 of the above. Yeah. Yeah, I got a good I 2:00:23.200 --> 2:00:25.560 have a good stock guy that's done very well for me. 2:00:27.440 --> 2:00:32.320 I we own real estate, and I got money in 2:00:32.360 --> 2:00:33.880 the bank, and. 2:00:33.960 --> 2:00:36.200 Do you pay attention to that or you more leave 2:00:36.240 --> 2:00:38.680 it to the advisors and you're being a management guy 2:00:38.840 --> 2:00:39.280 all day. 2:00:41.520 --> 2:00:46.440 That's the last thing I think about. And and quite frankly, 2:00:46.640 --> 2:00:51.680 quite frankly, red Lights made it that that you know everything. 2:00:52.040 --> 2:00:55.320 Everything for me as far as business is concerned, flows 2:00:55.400 --> 2:00:57.720 with you know, with with with with with how we 2:00:57.880 --> 2:01:02.520 do it. And Corn and Corn and I since we 2:01:02.920 --> 2:01:06.080 since since I signed on, we've never had a discussion 2:01:06.280 --> 2:01:08.800 about what I make or how I make, or what 2:01:08.920 --> 2:01:12.120 he makes with me or anything like that. Well, we 2:01:12.360 --> 2:01:16.320 we have a we have a financial guy, and I 2:01:16.440 --> 2:01:21.840 talked to him maybe four times a year. That's not that, 2:01:22.040 --> 2:01:25.200 that's not that's not what drives me. It's really not 2:01:25.320 --> 2:01:25.880 what drives me. 2:01:26.480 --> 2:01:29.760 Okay, you make a living dealing with artists. Give us 2:01:29.840 --> 2:01:32.720 some insight into the mentality of artists. 2:01:36.440 --> 2:01:41.320 Artists are or exactly that they're artists, and they are 2:01:41.960 --> 2:01:46.160 concerned usually about themselves and their careers. And you know, 2:01:46.680 --> 2:01:51.920 to to the the more that they're focused on reality, 2:01:52.240 --> 2:01:56.080 the better that it is. But some of them, especially 2:01:56.600 --> 2:01:58.800 artists that that that have been around for as long 2:01:58.880 --> 2:02:02.960 as I know, some of my artists or other artists 2:02:03.000 --> 2:02:06.200 that red Light has I mean, you know, they've seen 2:02:06.240 --> 2:02:09.000 it all, they've done it all. They've had good times, 2:02:09.000 --> 2:02:12.120 they've had bad times, they've had they've had all of it. 2:02:13.240 --> 2:02:17.360 And I like to let the artists. I don't like 2:02:17.480 --> 2:02:22.200 to to get too much into what they're doing when 2:02:22.240 --> 2:02:26.560 they're creative. I like to help them in anything that 2:02:26.680 --> 2:02:29.640 they need help with. But I don't. I don't A 2:02:29.800 --> 2:02:32.040 and R stuff. I don't, you know, I don't. I 2:02:32.120 --> 2:02:34.720 don't do all of that. I give suggestions, but I 2:02:34.920 --> 2:02:37.640 usually don't give suggestions on anything that has to do 2:02:37.760 --> 2:02:39.960 with music or if they're going to do a video, 2:02:40.040 --> 2:02:41.920 if they're going to do you know, what the set 2:02:42.000 --> 2:02:44.520 design is, and stuff like that. I'll go like, hey, 2:02:44.560 --> 2:02:47.840 you know, we're spending too much money. But but that's 2:02:47.920 --> 2:02:49.920 That's about the only thing that I'll say. And that's 2:02:50.000 --> 2:02:52.120 not my money that I'm worried about, it's their money. 2:02:53.160 --> 2:02:55.520 I'm much more protective of my artist money than I 2:02:55.600 --> 2:03:00.520 am of mine. And do you have paper with your artists? Never? 2:03:02.120 --> 2:03:05.680 And do you charge every artist the same percentage? Never? 2:03:07.160 --> 2:03:09.760 What would vary the percentage you would. 2:03:09.680 --> 2:03:13.840 Charge my deal with the artist? I mean, but why 2:03:13.880 --> 2:03:14.600 would the deal be? 2:03:14.840 --> 2:03:16.560 You don't have to mention any names. Why would the 2:03:16.600 --> 2:03:19.440 deal be different with one artist and another artist. 2:03:19.800 --> 2:03:24.360 Because the circumstances are always are always different. I mean, listen, 2:03:24.440 --> 2:03:30.880 I don't go below a certain threshold. But but I 2:03:31.120 --> 2:03:35.160 don't think in anything everybody's created, everybody's treated equally. I mean, 2:03:35.600 --> 2:03:38.080 I don't think there's there's any business that everybody's treated, 2:03:38.520 --> 2:03:43.200 you know, treated equally. You know, it's it's all individual stuff, 2:03:44.720 --> 2:03:48.960 you know, And I I don't think. I don't think myself, 2:03:49.120 --> 2:03:53.000 nor do I know of red light where where commission 2:03:53.080 --> 2:03:57.000 structure is a driving kind of thing. That is the 2:03:57.040 --> 2:04:00.560 difference between whether you've got a relationship with an artists 2:04:00.680 --> 2:04:04.560 or not. I mean, you know, it'll all it will 2:04:04.720 --> 2:04:07.080 be reflected in what their bottom line is. If they're 2:04:07.160 --> 2:04:11.160 not making money, then you know, you know most of 2:04:11.280 --> 2:04:15.040 them won't be happy. There are some artists that are 2:04:15.480 --> 2:04:18.120 that that you know that that also you know, are 2:04:18.200 --> 2:04:19.120 not driven by money. 2:04:20.840 --> 2:04:24.040 And since you've been negotiating your whole life, what's the 2:04:24.160 --> 2:04:25.200 key to negotiation? 2:04:27.680 --> 2:04:31.920 My key is that it's fair to both sides. That's 2:04:32.080 --> 2:04:36.040 not always everybody else's everybody else's notion. But I like 2:04:36.280 --> 2:04:39.280 I like for deals in anything, I like for deals. 2:04:39.640 --> 2:04:42.240 I like for deals, you know, in my in my 2:04:42.600 --> 2:04:45.480 in my in my private life. I like for deals 2:04:45.560 --> 2:04:49.920 to be fair, you know between everybody. You know, my wife, 2:04:50.000 --> 2:04:52.840 my wife is you know, we we have to we 2:04:53.200 --> 2:04:56.720 have to be on equal ground or you know, where 2:04:56.760 --> 2:04:58.200 there's there's there's problems. 2:04:59.640 --> 2:05:03.640 Okay, you've been married twice. To what degree did this 2:05:03.880 --> 2:05:07.960 business contribute to the death of those marriages? And how 2:05:08.120 --> 2:05:10.200 hard is it to have a relationship and be in 2:05:10.280 --> 2:05:10.960 this business. 2:05:15.240 --> 2:05:22.400 Probably I had a period of time was like a 2:05:22.480 --> 2:05:24.440 lot of people with drugs and alcohol and all that 2:05:24.560 --> 2:05:29.760 stuff which were driven by the business. So my first 2:05:29.800 --> 2:05:33.000 marriage probably was due to that. My second marriage wasn't. 2:05:33.880 --> 2:05:37.520 My third marriage was probably Our first marriage to Cindy 2:05:37.680 --> 2:05:43.040 was probably partially the drug and alcohol thing and partially 2:05:43.160 --> 2:05:51.480 my ego. And the fourth marriage is my last. 2:05:53.240 --> 2:05:56.600 So if you had your drugs and alcohol period, how 2:05:56.680 --> 2:05:57.920 did you get past that. 2:06:02.000 --> 2:06:06.320 I didn't go to rehab. I just I just stopped. 2:06:07.160 --> 2:06:10.160 I knew I realized that it was I realized that 2:06:10.280 --> 2:06:14.920 it was was ruining things for me. And even though 2:06:15.160 --> 2:06:17.960 I thought to myself, I didn't know that I could 2:06:18.000 --> 2:06:23.600 stop doing cocaine, when I did, I just stopped. I 2:06:23.840 --> 2:06:26.720 just That's what I did. I went like, I'm not 2:06:26.800 --> 2:06:32.800 doing this anymore, and I haven't and drinking. I stopped 2:06:32.880 --> 2:06:36.520 drinking and then I slowly started drinking again. But I've 2:06:36.680 --> 2:06:41.400 never drank like I did, you know. I mean, there 2:06:41.520 --> 2:06:44.040 was a rider that the Outlaws had, that that had 2:06:44.480 --> 2:06:47.880 you know, there was only six guys in the band 2:06:47.960 --> 2:06:51.320 and me and the tour manager. You know, besides the crew. 2:06:51.400 --> 2:06:53.720 Forget the crew, they weren't they weren't touching her alcohol. 2:06:54.040 --> 2:06:56.840 There were like four bottles of vodka, two bottles of 2:06:56.920 --> 2:06:59.240 are three bottles of Jack Daniels. I mean, it was 2:06:59.360 --> 2:07:01.960 like how to is how did these guys can? And 2:07:02.080 --> 2:07:04.600 there was one o'clock in the morning. Somebody was always 2:07:04.600 --> 2:07:05.520 looking for a drink. 2:07:07.440 --> 2:07:11.440 Rock and roll lifestyle. Anyway, Charlie, you lived it, You survived. 2:07:11.840 --> 2:07:14.160 You've been very open and honest. You told us some 2:07:14.280 --> 2:07:16.840 of the inside stories. I want to thank you so 2:07:17.000 --> 2:07:19.960 much for taking this time with my audience. Oh it's 2:07:19.960 --> 2:07:20.800 a it's a pleasure. 2:07:21.880 --> 2:07:23.480 You know, I'm a you know I'm a fan, and 2:07:23.560 --> 2:07:26.040 you know that you know that that you and I, 2:07:26.160 --> 2:07:29.880 you and I trade uh emails back and forth about 2:07:29.960 --> 2:07:32.560 things when when when things are going on so I was. 2:07:32.760 --> 2:07:35.440 I was actually very very honored to be asked to 2:07:35.520 --> 2:07:38.840 do the to do the podcast. And now now you 2:07:38.920 --> 2:07:44.400 gotta get corn. Absolutely, I'll tell them that it's painless. 2:07:44.600 --> 2:07:44.760 You know. 2:07:45.600 --> 2:07:47.600 You know I got it into it with an email 2:07:47.720 --> 2:07:49.920 the other day. We were emailing about something else and 2:07:50.040 --> 2:07:53.720 he kind of pushed it down the road. But if 2:07:53.720 --> 2:07:56.120 you could, but if you could play rod Y, give 2:07:56.200 --> 2:07:58.920 this story, that'll be good. 2:07:59.400 --> 2:08:04.560 Yeah. Well I listen. I would listen to a podcast 2:08:04.640 --> 2:08:06.760 with you and him for however long it last. To 2:08:06.800 --> 2:08:10.480 trust me, I think I think I was. I was 2:08:10.600 --> 2:08:12.480 just I was. I was so blown away just by 2:08:12.560 --> 2:08:16.560 that that little back and forth and at the at 2:08:16.600 --> 2:08:18.840 the at the bon Jovie thing the other night, I thought, 2:08:19.120 --> 2:08:21.000 I thought that was just fascinating the two of you. 2:08:22.280 --> 2:08:24.280 Well, I could literally talk to you for hours. I 2:08:24.400 --> 2:08:26.720 love the stories, I love the thing. But we're gonna 2:08:26.800 --> 2:08:30.000 end it here. You got it, Charlie. At any event, 2:08:30.160 --> 2:08:32.800 till next time. This is Bob left six