1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftsnets podcast. My 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: guest today is manager Charlie Brusco. Charlie, tell me what 3 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: acts you presently manage. 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: I managed Styx, I managed Collective Soul. I managed the 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: Outlaws in Blackhawk. I managed the Marshall Tucker Band. I 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 2: managed Don Felder, I managed Tim Montana. I managed Edwin McCain. 7 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 2: I now manage Dave Mason. I managed Nancy Wilson from 8 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 2: Heart and and her and her Heart situation, her heart 9 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: band and I manage UH Poison and and UH and 10 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 2: Brett Michaels I managed, I managed Heart or not Heart 11 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: but but Nancy and UH and Poison. I managed with 12 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: Bruce Floor from our red Light LA office. 13 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: Okay, how does one person manage all those people? 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,639 Speaker 2: I have a great staff I have. I have people 15 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: that have been with me from anywhere from probably six 16 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 2: to ten years or twelve years or longer. And Cindy 17 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: that you've met my wife, she's uh, she's involved in 18 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: I have all the because I'm at red Light, I 19 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: have all the the red light support stuff too. Even 20 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 2: though we have multiple offices all over the place, we 21 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 2: red light red light moves pretty well together. We we 22 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: we we share some different things that whenever we need them. 23 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: Okay, let's there's a lot of stuff there. How did 24 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: you end up managing Dave Mason? 25 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: Just started managing Dave? I got a call from Dave's 26 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: agent at Uta and and Dave had worked a couple 27 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 2: of years ago with maybe a year ago with Marshall 28 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: Tucker Band, and the shows were great, and you know, 29 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: Dave's a I'm listen, I'm also a fanboy a bit. 30 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 2: So I'm a huge Traffic fan and I'm a huge 31 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 2: Dave Mason fan. So when I get the chance of 32 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: the opportunity to work with somebody that I also like, 33 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: you know, go back in their to their history. And 34 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: interesting enough, with the first meeting that I had with 35 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 2: Dave and his wife, I mean Dave predates, which is 36 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: hard to do, predates me in the early days, and 37 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 2: it was fascinating for me to just sit and talk 38 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 2: to him about how because I'd heard all of this 39 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 2: over the years and everything like that. But but how 40 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: when I was a kid sixteen years old listening to 41 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 2: to Traffic and you know, alone together and all of 42 00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: that era, Dave was in England and from my time 43 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: with with with Bad Company and Paul Rodgers and Simon 44 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: Kirk and all those guys. I had always heard about 45 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: this thing of how they all listened to blues records 46 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 2: and that's how like where they developed from. And at 47 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: the time that he was starting to have hits and 48 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: things going on, I was a young kid in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 49 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: and I was listening to stacks and you know, I 50 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: wasn't listening to blues stuff, but I was listening to 51 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: my first, my first musical kind of stuff, except for 52 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: my listening to my sister's Elvis records, which I wasn't 53 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: really that that that into. But the Temptations and the 54 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: four Tops and the you know, and and Sam Moore 55 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: and Sam and Dave and I mean all of that stuff. 56 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: That that's the stuff that I heard because there was 57 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: a radio station in Pittsburgh called Whammo and that all 58 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: they played was R and B stuff, and it was 59 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: it was a little bit before AM radio turned to 60 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: FM radio and we started getting all the FM radio 61 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: music stuff and everything like that. I was listening to 62 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: stuff when I was, you know, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and 63 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: I had a band, and you know, I grew up 64 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: on that kind of stuff. Well, A funny thing was 65 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: is the other night when when when Dave was in 66 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 2: town in Atlanta. The keyboard player for Dave is Mark 67 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: Stein from the Vanilla Fudge And really I went and 68 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: as one of the encores, they do you Keep Me 69 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: Hanging On? And I went up to mark Stein afterwards 70 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: and I said, I had a band when I was 71 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: in high school and the toughest thing that we had 72 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: to do was learn you Keep Me Hanging On because 73 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: we had a ham and Bee three organ But but 74 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: you know, nobody could play like you and nobody could 75 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: sing like you. But we had to do it because 76 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 2: it was one of the biggest hits, you know, of 77 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 2: all time. It was. It's interesting, I mean, it's really interesting. 78 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: So Dave makes contact with you, how do you make 79 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: it agreement to manage Dave? And what can you do 80 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: for Dave that hasn't been done previously. 81 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: I I don't know what exactly I can do, but 82 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 2: I can. I can try and get him better quality 83 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: of shows. I can try and get him on tours. 84 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: I can. He's got a book coming out. We're gonna 85 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: interface with him on on getting the book release he's got. 86 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: I'm I'm not a manager that that throws out all 87 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: kinds of promises of things that I know are are 88 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: kind of out of reach. I mean heritage artists having 89 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 2: having great music, which a lot of them still make 90 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 2: great music, but getting that music out it doesn't have 91 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: the path that it had when we were growing up, 92 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: where it was on the radio. There isn't for sticks 93 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 2: and for for you know, uh, for Dave Mason, for 94 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: a lot of artists like that, there's they get tremendous 95 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: amount of radio play, but they but the radio that 96 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: plays them won't play their new music. They they'll they'll 97 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 2: play all their hits. But that you know, it's a 98 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: problem that we've all had. But the opposite of that 99 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 2: problem is is that if they're great live, the live business, 100 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 2: as you know, and you've said in all of your stuff, 101 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: I mean, the live business is probably as healthy as 102 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: it's ever been. You know, uh that that you know 103 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 2: that that any of us remember. 104 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: Just because you recently signed him, did Dave have a 105 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: manager before you or is he self managed? 106 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: He's had a couple of like he's had a couple 107 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: of managers before me, and it's it's and he did 108 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: some of the stuff himself. But I mean just about 109 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 2: everybody that I deal with has had a number of 110 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 2: managers before, and I try, I try not to get 111 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 2: into who managed them or what they do or anything 112 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: like that, you know. I mean Styx has had three managers. 113 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 2: They had Derek Sutton, who was the first manager they had, 114 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: They had Irving for a short time, pe'er Irving and 115 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: Howard for a short time period, and then they had me. 116 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 2: So that's probably the artist that I have that's had 117 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: the least amount of managers, if you want to know 118 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: the truth. 119 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: Okay, So let's say when someone comes to you to 120 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: potentially manage them, is it usually a competition between you 121 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: and other managers or do they know they want you? 122 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 2: Most of the time. Looking down my list of artists 123 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: that I manage, most of them approached me. It's some 124 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 2: in some way, shape or form. Okay. 125 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: So with these heritage acts, is the focus primarily on 126 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: getting better live gigs or what else can you do 127 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: with these acts? As you say, the odds of new 128 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: music being played on the radio is very low. 129 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: Well, I'm I'm you know. Sticks A few years ago 130 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: Tommy came to me and was like, you know we're 131 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 2: gonna I got some with the hand made a record 132 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: in fourteen years. And he came to me and he said, 133 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: I've got these ideas and songs in my head and 134 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: everything like that. And I said, that's great, but you know, 135 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: it's very limited what we can do with anything out there. 136 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: But the one the only thing that I would say 137 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: is is that if you're going to make new music 138 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 2: the I'm not an A and R person, but i'm 139 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 2: your manager. If you want some guidance, try and make 140 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 2: it sound like Sticks. Don't try and be cool, because 141 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 2: nobody gives a shit if you're cool. They they want that. 142 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: They they want to hear more Sticks. And and you know, 143 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 2: you know, make sure that it's great. You're you're a 144 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: great live band. Make sure it's songs that you'll be 145 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: able to play live. I mean that that you know, 146 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: And we're not going out on the road and when 147 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: we're going out and we're playing the amphitheaters or the 148 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: arenas or wherever we're playing, we're not going out and 149 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: playing six new songs in a set, because that's not 150 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: what the people and you you know this, and I 151 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: know this, that's not what the people that are coming 152 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 2: to see the shows are paying for, and when you 153 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: don't give them what they're paying for, they'll stop coming. 154 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: Okay, So how did you get sticks? And what was 155 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: the status of sticks when you got them? 156 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: Uh? Uh? I I was managing Tommy Shaw. 157 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait, how were you managing Tommy Shaw? 158 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 2: Tommy Shaw had just come out of Damn Yankees, and 159 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 2: I was actually at the time, I was. I was. 160 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 2: I was involved with with Irving and and uh and 161 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: Pace and all that in my promotion company. I was 162 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: doing shows. I was involved in developing Lakewood in Atlanta, 163 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 2: and I was the I was the buyer for Lakewood 164 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: at the time, and Damn Yankees had played Lakewood on 165 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 2: a Damn Yankees Bad Company package the Amphitheater. There twelve 166 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 2: thousand people. And I wasn't I wasn't a great Damn 167 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: Yankees fan, but I was obviously a huge Bad Company fan. 168 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: And I happened to be out catching the end of 169 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 2: the Bad Company set and they all of a sudden 170 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: they played Renegade and I was like, wow, man, and 171 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 2: the reaction was off the charts. So a couple of 172 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: years later, Damn Yankees is in a perious position with 173 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 2: with Warner Brothers that have made a record Warners doesn't 174 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 2: really give a shit about the record that they're They're 175 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 2: arguing back and forth, and Tommy and Jack Blades decided 176 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 2: that they wanted to try and do some other stuff, 177 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 2: and Tommy threw some people that we knew and everything 178 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 2: like that got introduced to me and I started managing Tommy, 179 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 2: and then in turn we started doing something that was 180 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 2: called Shaw Blades, which was Tommy, Tommy Shaw and Jack Blades. 181 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: So when we were doing the beginning of the of 182 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: the Tommy stuff and we weren't talking, there was never 183 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 2: any mention of anything with me and Tommy in the 184 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 2: in the opening stuff about Styx. 185 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: I. 186 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: Actually was not really a Sticks fan. I uh, you know. 187 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: I came up with the Outlaws and Leonard skinnerd and 188 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: the Allman Brothers band and all that kind of stuff. 189 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: And Sti's was that big band from Chicago that had 190 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: all those kind of songs, but they weren't and they 191 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: weren't what I would say in my wheelhouse at the time, 192 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: So we uh, Tommy was Universal Records had all of 193 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 2: the Stick all of this catalog except for Lady. They 194 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: didn't own Lady because Lady was recorded on Wooden Nickel 195 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 2: Records in the in the beginning. All right, So they 196 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: were putting out a second Greatest Hits record, which they 197 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: could do with or without the band's okay, all right, 198 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 2: But they came to the band, and they came and 199 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 2: they wanted to have Lady on the on the thing, 200 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 2: but they didn't want to license this song from from 201 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: Wooden Nickel. Hence the the the thing that most bands 202 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: fans know this, and I'm sure you know this to Bob. 203 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 2: Bands do re records after their re record contracts or 204 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 2: they're clear of re record problems with the record company. 205 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 2: Everybody you know has their own versions that they do 206 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 2: of the songs later. So they're gonna do Lady. So 207 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 2: Tommy comes to me and he says, hey, I got 208 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 2: a call from Jay and he wants me to he 209 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: wants me to come to uh to Chicago, and we're 210 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 2: gonna they're gonna re record Lady. And I said, okay, 211 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: the Universal is going to put this thing out. I said, Okay, 212 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 2: that all makes sense. I said, but but you know, 213 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 2: I didn't think you guys got along. And he goes, oh, 214 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 2: he goes, you know it was really weird. He goes. 215 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: He called me and he goes, you know, we hadn't 216 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: talked in ten years or fifteen, twelve, whatever amount of 217 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 2: years it was. We hadn't talked in all this time. 218 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: And he said, but he goes, it was like, none 219 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: of this shit that went on in the past was there. 220 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 2: He goes, it was just like two old friends talking. 221 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: And I was like, well, there's there's going to be 222 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: three more friends when you go up there, because there 223 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 2: was there was five guys in the band, right, And 224 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 2: he goes yeah. I go, well, hopefully that'll all work out. 225 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 2: And I go, so okay, and he said yeah, and 226 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 2: they said, you know, I can bring Genie, which is 227 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 2: now Tommy's wife, which was Tommy's girlfriend at the time, 228 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: because we're going to all go to dinner afterwards. And 229 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: I was like, well, okay, Son's great. And he went 230 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 2: off to Chicago and the next morning he called me 231 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: on the phone and he said, he said, listen. He goes, 232 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: you have no idea. He goes, I know that you 233 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 2: have this this thing because of different stuff that I've 234 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: said about you know, who gets I don't care about sticks, 235 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: and I'm you know, he goes, but he goes, when 236 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 2: we started playing that, we started playing Lady, he said, 237 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 2: it just all sounded so great. And he goes, and 238 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: everybody was in a great mood. He goes, we all 239 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: got along, and the wives got along, and the girlfriend whatever, 240 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 2: everybody got along. And he said. We went to dinner, 241 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 2: and he said, and at dinner, somebody said, wouldn't it 242 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: be great if we if we did a tour? And 243 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 2: I said okay, and he said, well, perbade him. Would 244 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 2: anybody give a shit if Sticks came back out and toured? 245 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: And my wife was in the room, and I said, 246 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: Stick's doing a tour and Cindy said, and I was like, 247 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: I got I'm gonna have to do some check and 248 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: I really, you don't know what it would mean. And 249 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: my wife said everybody in my high school would go 250 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: to that show. And I was like, really, okay. So 251 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: I called some promoter friends of mine, and at the time, 252 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 2: Jack Boyle was alive, and I think I called I 253 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: think I called Don Law. I mean, it's kind of 254 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 2: similar to when I made all the calls originally about 255 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: Leonard Skinner. When putting Skinner together in eighty seven, I 256 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 2: reached out the people that I trusted there were ill 257 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: probably called Arnie and Jerry in Chicago, and everybody was like, yeah, 258 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: that sounds really good. So I also thought, okay, there 259 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 2: has to be a great package that goes with this. 260 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 2: So we started talking about the one the tour, and 261 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 2: one of the things that Tommy said that he went 262 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: back to the guys and said, all right, I'm going 263 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: to be in. But if I'm in, my manager, Charlie 264 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: Bresco manages us and he runs the show. And uh 265 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: so he said, Tommy said, I talked to them about it. 266 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: They agreed, they want to have a meeting in Chicago. 267 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: Can you come to Chicago next week? So I flew 268 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: to Chicago. And you know, I mean, honest to God's 269 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 2: truth in my in my promoter days in when I 270 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 2: was managing Skinnered in the early nineties, Jay Why had 271 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: called me to go see his solo band, and I 272 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 2: think I told him I was going to show up 273 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: at the show. And I never showed up, but but 274 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: we we sat in a room. We we we we 275 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: went to dinner at the at the at a at 276 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 2: an Italian restaurant in downtown Chicago. We went across the 277 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 2: street to the to the uh. To the Whitehall Hotel 278 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 2: where I was staying. We had I had a sweet upstairs. 279 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: We went upstairs. We all sat down and we started talking, 280 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 2: and they said, what can we do? And I said, 281 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 2: from what I've been able to ascertain, you know, we'll 282 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: We'll get we'll get an agent. Well, we'll uh and 283 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 2: we'll you know, we we'll do We'll do amphitheaters, we'll 284 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: do you know, I think we can do forty or 285 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 2: fifty shows next year if everybody will commit to it. 286 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: And everybody kind of like said, yeah, okay. And the 287 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: first tour was done with absolutely no interference from from 288 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 2: anybody at all. And the first tour, everywhere we went 289 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 2: basically sold out. I mean, we did twenty three thousand 290 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 2: people in Saint Louis and you know, twenty thousand people. 291 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 2: You know. We did two nights in Chicago at the 292 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 2: at the endoor, at the Arena, I mean, and it 293 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: was great, it was it was wonderful. And then, of course, 294 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: you know, as as things go, the next tour, some 295 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 2: ghosts came out and things started to go back to 296 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: the to the you know, a little bit out of 297 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: the way, and and at one point Tommy and j why. 298 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 2: Came to me and said, we got a new album 299 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 2: coming out, Dennis does, Dennis can't tour. We want to 300 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 2: go out there without them. And I said, all right, 301 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 2: if we do this, you know, it could work. It 302 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 2: might not work, but you know, if you guys, if 303 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 2: you guys, I'm not going to go backwards. We're not 304 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 2: going to go do this for six months and then 305 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 2: and then turn around and go back because Dennis will 306 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 2: just be you know, Dennis will have more power than 307 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 2: he wants. And and uh, and we you know, the 308 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 2: three of us decided we were going to do it, 309 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 2: and off we went. And it's uh, twenty twenty five years. 310 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: You know, we've been touring. We've done probably twenty five 311 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: hundred shows, and and we love we love what we do. 312 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 2: We have a great we have a great time. Okay, 313 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: how did you tell Dennis he was out? Oh? I 314 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 2: called him on the phone and told him and and 315 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 2: the reaction was not good. And he said to me, 316 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 2: you know that no one will come to see them 317 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: without me, and I go, we'll see, we'll find out. 318 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: And then there was a loss suit and then the 319 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: lawsuit got settled, and you know, and and and it's 320 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 2: from I'm pretty sure of this. I don't think me, 321 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 2: Tommy or Jay, why have ever spoken to Dennis since 322 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 2: I since I let him go. I don't think the 323 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: three of us have ever had a word with Dennis 324 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: and a good word or a bad word. Nothing, Okay. 325 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: Conventional wisdom was that Dennis was acting out and the 326 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: other members didn't like it. 327 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 2: Is that true, Dennis, Dennis just had a You know, Dennis, 328 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 2: Dennis likes to be in control of everything, and he 329 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 2: I guess during the years of the early days, he 330 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 2: he got more and more power. He wrote, he wrote 331 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 2: big songs. I mean, he was you know, there's there's there, 332 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 2: there's there's those kind of struggles and ship like that 333 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 2: that goes on with bands and just about every band. 334 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 2: I mean, let me tell you something. You know, Keith 335 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 2: and Mick ain't kissing and hugging on on every night 336 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 2: about everything, and and they've stayed together all those years. 337 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: I mean, you know it's it. You gotta you gotta know, 338 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: you gotta know, you know where you're, how you can 339 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,719 Speaker 2: how you can do this together, because uh, you know 340 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 2: it otherwise you go. You know, it's like the Fleetwood song, 341 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 2: you go your own way. I mean, that's you know, 342 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 2: that's that's it, that's it, and you know sometimes people 343 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: try and it doesn't work. We found an incredible talent 344 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 2: and we we actually knew it. We auditioned uh for 345 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 2: Dennis's position. We auditioned a number of a number of people, 346 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 2: and the least like Dennis, the least sounding like Dennis, 347 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 2: the least Dennis because we we actually had people come 348 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 2: in that people suggested to us. And we did the 349 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 2: the auditions up at Tommy's house when he lived up 350 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 2: in the top of the Hollywood Hills. And when when 351 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 2: we did those, there were guys that were like they 352 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 2: were in cover bands. They were they were doing Dennis 353 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: and cover bands and they were pretty convincing how they 354 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 2: did their stuff. But when after Lawrence Gowan did his thing, 355 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 2: we went we went into Tommy's house and the three 356 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 2: of us looked at each other and they said, what 357 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 2: do you think? And I said, if you want to 358 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,719 Speaker 2: if all the guys that we had here before, if 359 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 2: you want somebody to be Dennis, we get one of 360 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 2: those guys. If you want to chart a new course 361 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 2: and you want to you want to have a guy 362 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: that that's that's alltra talented and has had his own 363 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: career in Canada and all that stuff, and you know, 364 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 2: and is not Dennis. That that's my vote, you know, 365 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 2: I got, I got one vote out of three. You 366 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 2: two Stoll, you know, call the shots and and you know, 367 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: but that's that's my opinion. And it's been my opinion 368 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: from day one. And let me tell you something the 369 00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 2: first tour that we did with Dennis in nineteen ninety six, 370 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 2: that those shows were those shows were great. I mean 371 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 2: they were they were really great. It was a it 372 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: really what brought what took it apart was the same 373 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 2: thing that took it apart the first time. It was 374 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 2: personality conflicts. And they they just didn't they didn't want 375 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 2: to be on the same bus together, they didn't want 376 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 2: to be in the same cars together. They didn't want 377 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: to be and you can't you can't fix that. I mean, 378 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: you can't fix personalities. 379 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so you had a new member, you go on 380 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: the first tour. Is it all smooth or do some 381 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: people react to, hey, Dennis isn't in the band? 382 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, well there was, there was, there was. That 383 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: was the one thing that we were least worried about 384 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 2: was we knew there was a crowd out there that 385 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 2: would be that would want to listen to the to 386 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 2: the Stick stuff, and if we did it, great, it 387 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: would it would be great. But all the chirpin and 388 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 2: all the fan stuff that you know there, Yeah, there 389 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: were battle lines, there were two sides, there were all that, 390 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 2: but we we knew all together that that we had 391 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 2: we the fans, the people that were coming would react. 392 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 2: And then my sense of everything was was we got 393 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 2: to get out and we can't play fairs and festivals 394 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 2: that we're playing and we can't play you know, smaller 395 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 2: theaters and everything like that. We got to get out 396 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 2: on a show that'll that'll put a lot of people 397 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 2: out there, so that so that we can get in 398 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: front of a lot of people, so so the bunch 399 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 2: of fans can come and even if we only convince 400 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 2: half of them, instead of convincing you know, a thousand 401 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 2: out of two thousand people, we're convincing five out of 402 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: ten thousand people. And there had there had always been 403 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 2: a U challenge that had never really on a tour 404 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 2: situation had never happened like Rio and Sticks were always 405 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: kind of in competition. And I went after Rio to 406 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 2: do a tour at Sticks, and I got House of 407 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: Blues to put up the money for a whole tour 408 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 2: and an amphitheater tour and everything like that. And I 409 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 2: approached Tomkin Solo that manages Rio and and we both 410 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: felt that it was going to be great. And we've 411 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: probably done four hundred, four hundred and fifty shows together 412 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 2: or something like that. And and we the two the 413 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 2: two bands. Everybody, everybody gets along. That's the other thing 414 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: about Stix, I mean Sticks, Probably of all the bands 415 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 2: that I've ever been involved with, they probably the bus 416 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 2: is probably the most fun bus to be on because 417 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 2: they're they're they're all they all get along. They get 418 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 2: along great. 419 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: So when you did the first tour with Styx with 420 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: House to Blues Concerts, which was an independent operation. 421 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 2: At that point, Amarciano, Alex Odges, Larry Vallen, it was 422 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 2: a great time. Right, So how do you decide on 423 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 2: paying billing with Gonsolo. It's been across the board fifty 424 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: to fifty. We're partners and we then and let me 425 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: tell you something else that's interesting that we do. Okay, 426 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 2: when we toured together, you know how you got somebody 427 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 2: that's got a referee shirt on the production manager that 428 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: works for the tour doesn't work for either of us. 429 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 2: He works for the tour because because if it was 430 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 2: our production manager, he would be jockeying for everything for us. 431 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 2: If it was our production manager, he would be jockeying, 432 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 2: jockeying for everything for them. That's it's it's neutral. We 433 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: had to have a neutral person in the middle. So 434 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 2: how do you decide who closes? Tom and I work 435 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 2: that out, and then we go back to the band 436 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 2: and they go, what the hell are they too me? 437 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 2: You know, and then we go like, just well, listen, 438 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: we're going to do this again two years or three 439 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 2: or four years from now, and you can close that 440 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 2: city that time. Chicago we always close. Saint Louis they 441 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 2: always close, Atlanta we always. I mean, there's some that 442 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 2: that that are basically you know that that we we 443 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 2: naturally do it. And then we just go like and actually, 444 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: you know, in the in the first few years, the 445 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 2: first couple of times that we did it and there 446 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 2: wasn't that was a little bit tougher. Now it's like, 447 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: I don't we don't care, you know, play you know, 448 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 2: who who closes is the most inconsequential thing. Man my opinion, 449 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 2: and my band knows this, and some of my band 450 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: members have come to the same conclusion. If it's a 451 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: three act show, which our shows always are in the 452 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 2: summer in the amphitheaters, the middle slot's the best slot 453 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: on the show. 454 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: Because it's an aged audience. 455 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 2: Closing is an egos situation and is the middle of 456 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 2: the best because people are still awake and aren't leaving. Bob, 457 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 2: everybody's there. Nobody's leaving. Everybody the people. Everybody's not there 458 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: when the first act goes on, and no matter who closes, 459 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 2: there are people leaving. 460 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: So are there any young Sticks fans or is it 461 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: all people from the original era? 462 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 2: Oh? No, no, no, there's there's there's a that we 463 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 2: We wouldn't be where we are and we wouldn't be 464 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 2: doing the stuff that we're doing if it wasn't for 465 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 2: parents bringing their kids to shows, and then kids coming 466 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 2: to the shows without their parents as they growled. We've 467 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 2: got we've got fans that have been coming now for 468 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 2: the last twenty years that came to the shows when 469 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 2: they were twelve or fifteen with their parents and now 470 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 2: they're thirty five and they're they're like, they're you know, 471 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: they're bringing their kids. 472 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: So it appears that Sticks goes out every summer, is 473 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: that true? 474 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 2: We we work, We work regularly, but we don't do 475 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 2: the amphitheaters every year. We do the amphitheaters every few years. 476 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 2: We have way more places to play and things that 477 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 2: we like to do. Like I'll give you an example. 478 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 2: There's a there's a twenty six hundred seat theater in 479 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: Phoenix that most bands hate playing because it's circular, it's 480 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 2: in the room, it's not the celebrity. Celebrity. Yeah. Yeah, 481 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 2: so so most people, you know, most people do everything 482 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 2: that they can to not play the celebrity. Stix loves 483 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 2: playing the celebrity We you know, we've done as many 484 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 2: as three nights there because the fan reaction and the 485 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 2: fan kind of like that. You know, you know a 486 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 2: lot of our fans we see them at multiple shows 487 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 2: all the time, so you know, it's it's a you know, 488 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 2: it's a it's a it's a you know, all bands 489 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 2: have that. But you know, we we like certain things 490 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 2: that we do and we like it's pretty obvious from 491 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: from what our touring history is. There's there's there's a 492 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 2: lot of artists that we like to tour with. We're 493 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 2: out with Foreigner this summer. We love them. We brought 494 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 2: John Waite back, who has done stuff with us before. Rio, 495 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 2: we work with a lot. We worked with Joan Jet. 496 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 2: Joan was great. Tesla has always been a favorite of ours, 497 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 2: and it's really kind of like a chemistry of how 498 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 2: it works with the crowd and then how it works 499 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: backstage also how everybody kind of gets along, because if 500 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 2: you can't get along with sticks, there's a problem. 501 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: So there's no issue of overexposure. 502 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: I haven't seen it yet, Okay, So Stix is on 503 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 2: the road. They have this fan base. There was a 504 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 2: new record. Is there anything you can do beyond the 505 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 2: live shows to grow the image or impact or ticket sales? 506 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 2: As Sticks, we keep an active social media stuff out there. 507 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 2: The record, I mean, listen the first record when we 508 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 2: did it, and I think it was twenty sixteen, and 509 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 2: they they hadn't done anything. I mean, I know, it 510 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 2: sounds pale in comparison to three triple platinum records in 511 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 2: a row and everything like that, But in today's market, 512 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: that record sounds sound scanned like one hundred and forty 513 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: thousand records or something like that that you know, and 514 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 2: our last record that we did sound scanned like sixty 515 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 2: or seventy thousand records. So it's it's it's and we 516 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 2: play some of the songs. We play a few of 517 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 2: the songs live, and if we do an evening with 518 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 2: Stick show where we do two sets, then we'll play 519 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 2: a little bit more of the of the new stuff. 520 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 2: And the fans love it because, quite frankly, the album sound, 521 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 2: the material sounds like vintage sticks. They use a lot 522 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 2: of the same kind of recording techniques and all that 523 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 2: stuff that they used in the early days to keep 524 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 2: that authentic kind of sound. What about sponsorship, Uh, if 525 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 2: it's out, you know, it's not something that we seek 526 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: and and and they you know, we we have our 527 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 2: own beer. We have we have a we have a 528 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 2: beer called Omama that's brewed by by a company in Pittsburgh, 529 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 2: and it's a little bit of a playoff of the 530 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 2: I mean, one of the biggest sports tie ins that 531 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 2: there is is Styx's song Renegade and the Pittsburgh Steelers. 532 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, if you go to if you 533 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 2: go to a Pittsburgh Steelers game, that's a that's at 534 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 2: their home field. Sometime during that game when they need 535 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 2: a defensive stop, they're there. You're you're gonna you're gonna 536 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 2: hear Renegade and the crowd is going to just be 537 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: having tiles waven and all that stuff. And we've got 538 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 2: a really special relationship with them. So we do have 539 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 2: a beer that that that's done significantly well as a 540 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 2: as a as a craft beer and everything like that. 541 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 2: But but we don't we don't really we don't look 542 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 2: for sponsors and you know, we don't we we we 543 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 2: if if the right one came in, would we would 544 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: we look at it. Yeah, but it's it's not something 545 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 2: that we're you know, we're we're we're we we know 546 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 2: what we know what we we know how our mercher, 547 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 2: we know how to do our merch. We know how 548 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 2: to do our our live our live shows, and we 549 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 2: know how to we know how to do it in 550 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 2: the in the fashion that we like to do it. 551 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 2: That that's probably why we keep doing it. What about privates, 552 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 2: Oh we yeah, we that we that was an early 553 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 2: that first time we did that, it was shell shock. 554 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 2: Now you know we we we do privates when when uh, 555 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 2: when they make sense and usually it has to do 556 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 2: with it it routes well or something like that, and 557 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 2: some of them are some of them are surprising, and 558 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: some of them are privates. Okay, how'd you put Leonard 559 00:32:51,120 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 2: skinnerd back together? Uh? Nineteen eighty seven April, well, probably 560 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 2: January of nineteen eighty seven. I got a call from 561 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 2: Amat Urdigan and Ahmat said, Charlie, uh, aren't you aren't 562 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 2: you friends with Gary Rossington? And I said, yeah, I've 563 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 2: been friends with Gary Rossington since, you know, since nineteen 564 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 2: seventy four. And he said, he said, him and his 565 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 2: wife Dale have this have this album, and atlantic's putting 566 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 2: it out and he he needs some he needs somebody, 567 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 2: and he goes I was talking to him about it 568 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: the other day and he said, he said, you know, uh, 569 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 2: I brought your name up. And he said, I don't 570 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 2: know if you Charlie and I are friends. I don't know, 571 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, and he said so, so 572 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 2: he gave me Gary's number, which Gary with at the time, 573 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 2: was living in and h up in Jackson, how Wyoming. 574 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 2: And I called Gary up and I said, hey, Gary, 575 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 2: what's going on? And he said, uh, you know, you know, 576 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: I got to get a manager. I got this record 577 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 2: coming out and Dale and I are really excited about it. 578 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 2: Send me the record. I listened to the record. I 579 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 2: was I was promoting at the time, I UH with 580 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 2: Alex Cooley and Peter Conlin in Atlanta, and we were 581 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 2: we were doing shows together, and I wasn't really doing 582 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: any real management stuff. But just like I mean, the 583 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 2: history with me and Gary goes back to you know, 584 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 2: the before Sweet Home Alabama was out. So uh, I said, uh, 585 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 2: all right, Uh. I listened to the record. Dale sounded great. 586 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 2: It sounded like a cross between Rossington Collins and and 587 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 2: Uh and skinnern and Uh. And so Gary, Gary came, 588 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 2: Gary and Dale came to Atlanta and we met and 589 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 2: I said, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna do this. And 590 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 2: I got them. I had Alex and Peter and I 591 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 2: had had a show at the Fox in Atlanta with Kansas. 592 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 2: And the Kansas show was a about two thirds made. 593 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 2: It was already on sale, it was about two thirds 594 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 2: sold out. So I said the I said to I 595 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 2: said to Alex and Peter, I said, you know, just 596 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 2: the name Rossington on the because that's what the name 597 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 2: of Gary's band, just the name of that on on 598 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 2: ninety six Rock will sell out the rest of the 599 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 2: Kansas State. Let's put his band on as the opening act. Okay, great, 600 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 2: So so we put them on the show. So it's 601 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,280 Speaker 2: you know, the show. So as soon as we announced Rossington, 602 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 2: like in the next couple of days, the show at 603 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 2: the Fox ended up completely selling out, sold out in advance. 604 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 2: So we went to uh, uh, we're at the Fox 605 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 2: and more upstairs in one of the dressing rooms up 606 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 2: and the upstairs, and somebody comes in and I'm in 607 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 2: with Gary and Dale and they're nerves they're they're actually 608 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 2: nervous because they're back to play in the Fox where 609 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 2: the three nights were recorded for the for the Skinnered 610 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 2: record and Rossington Collins had sold the building out and 611 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 2: everything like that. And here they are coming back and 612 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 2: they're and they're they're playing special guests to Kansas and 613 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 2: I and and somebody comes up and said, uh, there's 614 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 2: there's there's two guys at the back door and they 615 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 2: say that they they're good friends at Gary's and and 616 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 2: uh and they they heard that you're back here. They 617 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 2: said for you again because they want to say hi 618 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 2: to Gary. I got okay, so I got downstairs I 619 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 2: go to the back door of the Fox and I 620 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 2: open the door and it's Billy Powell and Leon Wilkerson 621 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 2: from all Right standing there. Hey man, we want to 622 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 2: see Gary. And I was like, Uh, okay, they're upstairs. 623 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 2: They're nervous as hell. Let us go up. Let us 624 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 2: go up and say him. So they go up and 625 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,240 Speaker 2: they all go into a room and they start talking 626 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 2: and everything like that. And and Gary had said to 627 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 2: me early on, you know, I don't want to revisit 628 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 2: all the skinner and stuff, and you know, I want 629 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,439 Speaker 2: the focus to be on on on the Rossington band 630 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 2: and everything like that. So I go up to the 631 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 2: dressing room and they're getting ready to go to the 632 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 2: stage and everything like that. And Gary pulls me aside 633 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 2: and he goes, we're gonna we're gonna go when we 634 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 2: do the end, we're going to go back up and 635 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 2: I'm going to bring Billy and Leon up for Sweet 636 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 2: Home Alabama. And I was like, you haven't rehearsed, right, 637 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 2: He goes, we all know it. He goes, he goes, 638 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 2: it'll go, it'll go over, It'll be great. And they 639 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 2: did that, and the place basically went to a different level. 640 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 2: It totally exploded. So we all we were all on this, 641 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 2: you know, high and from the show and all that, 642 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 2: and we went to a club, the bar, kind of 643 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 2: place that we used to hang out at when the 644 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 2: Skinner days and all that stuff. And we went back 645 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 2: there and it's one thirty in the morning and I'm 646 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 2: going to go home and Billy Powell comes over to 647 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 2: me and he goes, hey, Charlie, you know what the 648 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 2: October twentieth is this year. I go, yeah, Billy, it's 649 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 2: plane crash. No, no, no, no, tenth year. We need 650 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 2: to do something on October twentieth. And I was like, 651 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 2: if you talk to Gary about this, goes, Gary won't 652 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 2: talk to us about this. You need to talk to 653 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 2: him and Dale, and you need to get them to 654 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 2: do something. We just need to do one show. So 655 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 2: I was like, okay. So I went back to Gary 656 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 2: and Dale and I brought it up and Dale we 657 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 2: when we walked out of the room, she goes, I 658 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 2: wouldn't bring that up to him again. He doesn't want 659 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 2: anything to do with it. So I go okay. So 660 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 2: different things started to percolate and everything like that, and 661 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 2: all of a sudden Gary called me and he said 662 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 2: if we did if we did one show, could could 663 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 2: we could we make some money? And could we also 664 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 2: put Rossington on the show and I'll play both sets? 665 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 2: And I said yeah, and he goes, where does it 666 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 2: make sense to do it? I go, there's only one 667 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 2: place to do it. He goes where I go to 668 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 2: the Omni in Atlanta. I go, we'll announce it. It'll 669 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 2: do fifteen sixteen thousand people. It'll be you know all that, 670 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 2: but we'll have to rehearse, you know, we'll we'll have 671 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 2: to get all together and you have to figure out 672 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 2: who's going to play it and everything at that. So 673 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 2: we we we we. The next day, I went to 674 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 2: Alex and Peter and I was like, Hey, we want 675 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 2: to do a Skinnered reunion thing one day. You know, 676 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 2: Omni in Atlanta. What do you think? Alex says, couldn't 677 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 2: we do it October twenty first? And I go, doesn't 678 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 2: really make a lot of sense. Why He goes, the 679 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 2: cars are playing, They're they're confirmed. And I was like, 680 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 2: we can't like move that around or no, there couldsendent 681 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 2: or tour. They're not going to give up that date. 682 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 2: So I was like, okay, all right, then let's go 683 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 2: to Birmingham. We'll go to you know, we'll go to 684 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 2: We'll go to the arena in Birmingham. I don't like 685 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 2: it as much as I like Atlanta, but well, we'll 686 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 2: go to Birmingham for one show. Went back and we 687 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 2: started talking about what we were going to that we 688 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 2: were going to put it together, and we had that. 689 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 2: And back then in those days, there were the tip sheets, 690 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,800 Speaker 2: and there was a there was a tip sheet that 691 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 2: came out of Philadelphia that was Bill Hard. And I 692 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 2: used to talk to Bill Hard or one of his guys. 693 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: Let me ask you just about when was the last 694 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: time you spoke with Bill Hard? 695 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 2: Oh? Probably probably probably back around this time. I haven't 696 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 2: talked to Bill Hard, I think in this century. But 697 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 2: keep right, good, right, right, all right? So so so 698 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 2: so that that we were talking about something and they 699 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 2: they said to me, you know, oh, I was pitching 700 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 2: him on the Rossington record to get you know, and 701 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,919 Speaker 2: and Ahmitt was going to do ads in the tip 702 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,800 Speaker 2: sheet and all that stuff. And he said, so I 703 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 2: heard that the ohm it's excited. And he said something 704 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 2: about you're going to try and do some kind of 705 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 2: a skinner thing. And I said, yeah, we're gonna We're 706 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 2: gonna do one show on on the twentieth of uh of, 707 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,319 Speaker 2: you know, And I said, told I'm calling, I'm calling 708 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 2: around to some promoters and I'm trying. So I started 709 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 2: calling around the promoters and all the promoters were like, hey, 710 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 2: don't just do Birmingham do this, DIY do this. So 711 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,399 Speaker 2: I went back to Gary and I said, you know, hey, listen, 712 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 2: we probably can do ten or twelve or whatever. Why 713 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 2: don't Why don't we make it make more sense? And he's, 714 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 2: you know, he said, uh, well, you know you need 715 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 2: to you need to find certain people. I go, what's that? 716 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,919 Speaker 2: He goes the first one. He goes, I'm not doing 717 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 2: this unless Ed King is involved. And I go, do 718 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 2: you have any idea where Ed King is? I I 719 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 2: heard he's in New Jersey. All right, Ed King had 720 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 2: Ed King wasn't even playing. I mean Ed King was 721 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 2: in the software business or early tech, you know, tech 722 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 2: kind of stuff. So I rounded up Ed, I rounded 723 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 2: up Billy Pile, Leon Artemis. We we got we started 724 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 2: getting that all together, and then that was all in motion. 725 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 2: And that was when Bill Hard called me, and I 726 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 2: had promoters that were gonna, we're all interested in doing it. 727 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 2: And I had a conversation before I talked to Bill Hard. 728 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 2: I had a conversation with Bill Graham, and I called 729 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 2: Bill Graham up on the phone. And Bill Bill was 730 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 2: always like like, you know, he was always telling me, 731 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 2: you don't know what. He took me under his wing 732 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 2: and helped me in all kinds of ways. R at that, 733 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,919 Speaker 2: but he was always you know, giving me the giving 734 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 2: me a hard time. So I called him up, and 735 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,760 Speaker 2: I said, and he was a massive, massive Leonard Skinnerard 736 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 2: guy in the day. Ronnie, Ronnie and him were great 737 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,239 Speaker 2: friends Gary everybody they were the Bill Bill was was one, 738 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 2: you know, was one of their favorite promoters, if not 739 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 2: their favorite promoter. So I called Bill was one of 740 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,800 Speaker 2: the first guys I called. And Bill said to me, 741 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 2: are you out of your goddamn mind, don't you know 742 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 2: there was a plane crash. He said, you can't bring 743 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 2: back he goes. You can't bring back Leonard Skinnard without 744 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 2: without Ronnie van Zandt. And I said, Johnny's gonna sing 745 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 2: he goes. Nobody will care. And I said, so Bill, 746 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 2: if I I said, Larry Maggot's gonna do. All these 747 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 2: people were doing cities, you don't want to do San Francisco. No, 748 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 2: I won't do it. And I said, okay, well, then 749 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what we won't do San Francisco. If 750 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,839 Speaker 2: we're not going to come in there and have Don 751 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 2: Fox or somebody else come in and do San Francisco, 752 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 2: the band respects you too much. And if you feel 753 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 2: that way, okay. So Bill Graham was kind of written 754 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 2: out of the tour at that moment. Bill Hard calls 755 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 2: me up on the phone and we're talking about this thing, 756 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 2: and this is like, this is after we had the 757 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 2: lineup that set and he's and I tell Bill Hard, yeah, well, 758 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,359 Speaker 2: actually we're gonna do We're gonna do a bunch of dates. 759 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 2: We're gonna probably do fifteen twenty. I don't know. We're 760 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 2: still putting it together. We still talking about the Rossington record. 761 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 2: Bill Hard on Thursday or Friday of whatever that week was, 762 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 2: whenever he wrote his Hard report in the notes. Thing 763 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:56,040 Speaker 2: that he wrote, interesting thing going on in Atlanta. Sounds 764 00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 2: like Charlie Brusco has Gary Rossington all these together, and 765 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 2: it sounds like around the October we'll see the first 766 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,799 Speaker 2: time we'll see some dates honoring Leonard Skinner all right 767 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 2: the tip sheet comes out. The tip sheets out. The 768 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,799 Speaker 2: next day or two days after the tip sheet comes out, 769 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 2: I get a call from Bill Graham and Bill says, 770 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,360 Speaker 2: this skinner thing you're you're really going to do it? 771 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,359 Speaker 2: I go yeah, And he goes, is it routed yet? 772 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,800 Speaker 2: I go, barbar Skuydell and Frank Barcelona Premiere routing it. 773 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 2: But we're not. We didn't put San Francisco in Bill, 774 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,800 Speaker 2: and he said, we're going to change that. And I go, 775 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 2: where do you think we should play in San Francisco? 776 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,799 Speaker 2: And he says, he goes, I want to do Shoreline. 777 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 2: I want to do Concord. I want to do Sacramento. 778 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 2: I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. Bill, you went 779 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 2: from this is the stupidest idea that you've ever heard. 780 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,719 Speaker 2: To now you want to do five cities and you 781 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 2: want to open the tour in San Francisco. What is 782 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 2: going on? And he said, well, he goes that Bill 783 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,839 Speaker 2: Hard report. He goes, somebody at the radio station here 784 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 2: in San Francisco started talking about it on the radio 785 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,280 Speaker 2: yesterday morning, and our phone lines have been jammed, people 786 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 2: calling to wanting to know when they're going to play 787 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 2: San Francisco. He goes, we'll sell every one of these 788 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,439 Speaker 2: shows out. I said, Shoreline's twenty thousand seats. He said, 789 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,719 Speaker 2: you'll sell every show out. I'll stake my name on it. 790 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 2: And so we started in San Francisco. We did, we did, 791 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 2: We did twenty one thousand people at Shoreline sold out, 792 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 2: sold that, Concord sold out Sacramento. I mean, you know, 793 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 2: and Bill, you know, Bill was was a was a 794 00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 2: great part of that, putting the band together and getting 795 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:55,240 Speaker 2: everything and the initial start, and then we did eighty seven, 796 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 2: and then we did eighty eight, and then the band 797 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 2: kind of like all the ghosts came out and I 798 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 2: got I got crazy with it, and they got crazy 799 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 2: with it, and you know, they they called me up 800 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 2: one day Gary, I think it was Gary, maybe it 801 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,359 Speaker 2: was Now Probably Gary wasn't called. He had somebody called 802 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 2: me and he was like, we're we're we're we're we're 803 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,759 Speaker 2: not gonna We're not going to go forward next year 804 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 2: with you. And I was like, okay. And then the 805 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 2: next thing I knew they were going to Bill Graham Management. 806 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 2: So they went to Bill grand Management for two years, 807 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 2: did one tour and then right right when when when 808 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 2: when Bill had the when Bill was was killed in 809 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 2: the helicopter accident, they came, they they came back to 810 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 2: me and and I had him for the next I 811 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,840 Speaker 2: had him until ninety nine. And put them on the 812 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 2: put together them and ZZ together, and then we got 813 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 2: sideways again. And Gary called me up and was like, 814 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,719 Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna We're gonna move on. I I 815 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 2: was like, Gary, we're great friends. Do me one favor. 816 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,360 Speaker 2: I got everything in I put this tour together. I 817 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,879 Speaker 2: want paid on this tour. He said, You'll get paid 818 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 2: on this tour and we'll remain friends. And Gary, Dale, Cindy, myself, 819 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,480 Speaker 2: the you know, the rest of the Skinner guys. I 820 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,359 Speaker 2: mean I was. I was at Gary's funeral, and get 821 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 2: that Dale and Gary lived. They moved ten minutes from 822 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,040 Speaker 2: my house, and we saw each other all the time, 823 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 2: and you know, there was there wasn't really hard feelings. 824 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,680 Speaker 2: And quite frankly, ros Shilling and Ken Levitan and them 825 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 2: have done a great job for for Skinner. They the 826 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,320 Speaker 2: and and I know some people don't think this, but 827 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 2: but I know Gary sat with me and and when 828 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 2: he had all the health issues before he passed, he 829 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,880 Speaker 2: said to me he said, the one thing that I 830 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:58,480 Speaker 2: don't want to happen. And I know he said this 831 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 2: to Dale too. I don't want this band and this 832 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,720 Speaker 2: music and everything that we've been doing to stop because 833 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,200 Speaker 2: I'm not here, and he said, he said, he told 834 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 2: that to a number of people. And that's why I 835 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:16,360 Speaker 2: feel like the skinnered music, it doesn't doesn't matter who's playing. 836 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:21,759 Speaker 2: Johnny's there, Ricky's there. I mean, they're they're doing they're 837 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:28,319 Speaker 2: doing the the they're doing the legacy well. And they 838 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,560 Speaker 2: they you know, the fans that the fans turn out, 839 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 2: nobody's making people go to the shows and advertising it 840 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,759 Speaker 2: that it's some you know that that it's you know, 841 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,879 Speaker 2: everybody knows what they're getting and and you know it's 842 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,439 Speaker 2: up to them and the fans to keep on keeping 843 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 2: the music alive. And that's what Ronnie would have won it, 844 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,640 Speaker 2: That's what you know. That's what Steve Gaines would have wanted. 845 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,600 Speaker 2: That's what you know. That's what they all would have 846 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,799 Speaker 2: won it. And then you know, I knew every one 847 00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,479 Speaker 2: of them extremely well, for for as long as every 848 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,120 Speaker 2: one of them lived, because I'm still here and and 849 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,200 Speaker 2: Artemis is still here out of out of everybody, and 850 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,160 Speaker 2: Artemis really wasn't in the band when I first met 851 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,040 Speaker 2: the band. Bob Burns was a drummer when I first 852 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,520 Speaker 2: met the band, and the music that music will live 853 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 2: on way past me. How did Johnny end up being 854 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:34,840 Speaker 2: the lead singer? I wanted Donnie Gary wanted Johnny, simple 855 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,440 Speaker 2: as that, and and Garrett Gary Gary was right, I mean, 856 00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,600 Speaker 2: Johnny was the exact right choice for what we were doing, 857 00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,080 Speaker 2: and and Donnie Vans and it's still one of my 858 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 2: good friends and one of my favorite guys. But but 859 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 2: Donnie was Donnie wasn't the right He wasn't the right 860 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:55,840 Speaker 2: thing for for for the band. Johnny was. Johnny wasn't established, 861 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,680 Speaker 2: and we wouldn't be taking Johnny out of thirty eight 862 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,319 Speaker 2: Special to be and Leonard skinnerd and it probably would 863 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,440 Speaker 2: have worked for one tour, but we never would have 864 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 2: kept the everything going the way it's been going. Okay, 865 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 2: you put. 866 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: Leonard Skinnyard back together and they move on to Bill Brahm, 867 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 1: they move on ultimately the vector again. After what's it 868 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,040 Speaker 1: like being a manager? When you get that call? 869 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:29,479 Speaker 2: It's uh, it's heartbreaking, you know you and and really 870 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 2: after you get the call, you kind of you the 871 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 2: reality sets in of all right, yeah, and I mean 872 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:44,800 Speaker 2: my wife said to me, you know, this could be 873 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 2: the best and when when it happened in ninety nine, 874 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:48,880 Speaker 2: she said, this could be the best thing that ever 875 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,880 Speaker 2: happened you because because they're they're you were gonna you 876 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,680 Speaker 2: were gonna die. You know, you were just you were 877 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,520 Speaker 2: too in it, you were too involved. You were just 878 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,200 Speaker 2: too It was too much. It was too it was 879 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,239 Speaker 2: taking up your your entire everything. And you know, when 880 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,640 Speaker 2: things would get sideways, it would get worse, and when 881 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:08,040 Speaker 2: things were good, it would get better. 882 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:08,239 Speaker 1: You know. 883 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,360 Speaker 2: It was it was too much. And at first I 884 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,239 Speaker 2: didn't I didn't get it, but but afterwards, and you know, 885 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,319 Speaker 2: time heals all wounds. I mean that that's the that's 886 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,120 Speaker 2: the truth. I mean, I listened the Outlaws. I started 887 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,839 Speaker 2: with the Outlaws. Uh, the Outlaws. I swear I've been 888 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,560 Speaker 2: fired and rehired by the Outlaws like maybe four or 889 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 2: five times. And and I'm and Henry Paul and I 890 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,440 Speaker 2: have been There was a short time period when I 891 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,240 Speaker 2: had to tell Henry that he wasn't in the band anymore. 892 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 2: And Henry went on to do Blackhawk and to do 893 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,000 Speaker 2: his Henry Paul band stuff and everything like that. During 894 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,759 Speaker 2: that time, I was still managing Skinner art stuff. I 895 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,480 Speaker 2: was still managing the Outlaws, and and Henry and I 896 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:58,320 Speaker 2: couldn't really be friends. But I mean, Henry's writing a book. 897 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,680 Speaker 2: I'm I'm kind of and on win also, but Henry's 898 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,320 Speaker 2: writing a book. And he said, he said to me, 899 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,920 Speaker 2: you'll be happy with what I say about you. And 900 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:12,760 Speaker 2: I said, just tell the truth, and he I'll be happy. Okay. 901 00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,080 Speaker 1: But you know, I was hanging with the manager the 902 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,880 Speaker 1: other day and he was saying, you know, it's just 903 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,640 Speaker 1: a matter of when you get fired. Oh yeah, well 904 00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,520 Speaker 1: that's I think we all kind of think that way. 905 00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:33,880 Speaker 2: And uh uh could I could I get fired from Sticks? 906 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,040 Speaker 2: I didn't think. I didn't think I would get fired 907 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 2: from skinnerd I didn't think I would get fired from 908 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:45,120 Speaker 2: the Outlaws when I when I did, I the you know, 909 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:49,279 Speaker 2: there there's some will with with Doug Gray, let me go. 910 00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I just think that we're all 911 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,279 Speaker 2: kind of you know, we're we're a little bit past that. 912 00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,759 Speaker 2: And then and and I also know what my relationships 913 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,040 Speaker 2: are with with you know, with my artist. I don't 914 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,719 Speaker 2: you know, uh uh, I'm not. I'm not, in my opinion, 915 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,279 Speaker 2: I'm not on tenuous ground with anybody that that that 916 00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,279 Speaker 2: I would care about losing. And I'll just leave it 917 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:13,560 Speaker 2: at that. 918 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,759 Speaker 1: Now, is your experience been that when they do fire you, 919 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,400 Speaker 1: they have somebody else call in the band sort of 920 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:23,840 Speaker 1: separates themselves from you. 921 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,359 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. Most of the time. Most of them 922 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,200 Speaker 2: aren't big boys and call themselves. I mean, I will 923 00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,680 Speaker 2: say this. The once or twice that Henry and I 924 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,279 Speaker 2: got he went, he went and did some different stuff 925 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:43,080 Speaker 2: for different reasons, something like that. Henry actually Henry actually 926 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,319 Speaker 2: called you know, when I think back on it, Gary 927 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,719 Speaker 2: didn't call me. The business manager called me. You know, 928 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,520 Speaker 2: there's you know, there's there's you know that's not it's 929 00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,879 Speaker 2: not really an artist thing to unless you unless they're 930 00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:58,920 Speaker 2: pissed off at you. Then I'm sure that you know 931 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,120 Speaker 2: that some of we'll call and go like, you know, 932 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,920 Speaker 2: I've been waiting to do this. I mean, it's you know, 933 00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,680 Speaker 2: but most of them, most of them don't. Most of 934 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,640 Speaker 2: them have somebody and usually there's somebody else that's been 935 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,239 Speaker 2: squacking in their ears and telling them that they can 936 00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,359 Speaker 2: they can do this for them and that for them, 937 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,680 Speaker 2: and you know, I don't play that game. And and 938 00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,200 Speaker 2: really you know, uh, I mean, you know, cork corn 939 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,920 Speaker 2: corn doesn't red light gets enough calls from people saying 940 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,879 Speaker 2: where'd you be interested in? Then we get calls where 941 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,440 Speaker 2: where where we're getting you know, listen, we've got a 942 00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,880 Speaker 2: we've got a big roster where you know, we're a 943 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,160 Speaker 2: great management company. But you know it still is a 944 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,960 Speaker 2: you know, personal manager kind of things, and you know, 945 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,640 Speaker 2: personalities again, can you know, can can outweigh business? What's 946 00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,759 Speaker 2: what's going on business wise? I mean I've you know, 947 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,719 Speaker 2: I've had I've not when Bill ham got married or 948 00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,239 Speaker 2: got when Bill hamm got fired by zz Top after 949 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,239 Speaker 2: managing those guys for thirty years, and I had a 950 00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,600 Speaker 2: meeting with what's easy about managing them? When Bill ham 951 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,799 Speaker 2: got got got fired. That was the most shocking thing 952 00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,880 Speaker 2: to me in the world because he went in the 953 00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,240 Speaker 2: studio with him he you know, and and Bill basically 954 00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,840 Speaker 2: he was he was a z easy guy. That's what 955 00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,400 Speaker 2: that's what his that's that that's what his whole focus was. 956 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,680 Speaker 2: But you know, sometimes you're too close to it, and 957 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,400 Speaker 2: you know, you're too close to the flame and you 958 00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:31,960 Speaker 2: get burned. 959 00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,719 Speaker 1: So you were an independent for a long time. How 960 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,879 Speaker 1: did you decide to make a deal with Red Light? 961 00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:48,120 Speaker 2: Uh? I I had. I when Irving started rolling up 962 00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:52,040 Speaker 2: the management companies Irving and I I consider Irving a friend. 963 00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:56,400 Speaker 2: Irving Irving one of the greatest managers ever, you know. 964 00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:01,400 Speaker 2: I I had a meeting with Irving, and I probably 965 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,560 Speaker 2: could have when when Barrick and Consolo and all those 966 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,759 Speaker 2: people started going to Irving, I probably could have made 967 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,320 Speaker 2: a deal with Irving. But in my estimation, if I 968 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,040 Speaker 2: made a deal with Irving, I was going to need 969 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,840 Speaker 2: to move to Los Angeles to be in the middle 970 00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,839 Speaker 2: of what was going on with him, so that when 971 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,520 Speaker 2: he was talking with somebody about you know, management, uh, 972 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,440 Speaker 2: and he was going to have somebody handle somebody, I 973 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,960 Speaker 2: would be right there because I you know, that's how 974 00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,439 Speaker 2: that's how goes. So I had, I had a meeting. 975 00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:39,319 Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't go into the whole Irving roll up. 976 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,200 Speaker 2: And I was doing fine. I had Alliance Artist. I 977 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,400 Speaker 2: was out of the promoting business. I had done my 978 00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,680 Speaker 2: my national tours promoting wise, and I'd done my my 979 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,520 Speaker 2: local and I was out of that whole thing. And 980 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,799 Speaker 2: I was a manager and I had had uh uh 981 00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,000 Speaker 2: Skinner I had had left. I had I had sticks 982 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,480 Speaker 2: and we were rolling, and I had other artists I 983 00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,160 Speaker 2: bat I had bad company for a little while. I 984 00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,480 Speaker 2: had different artists that I was doing doing stuff with. 985 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,440 Speaker 2: And I got a call from from somebody and they 986 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:16,200 Speaker 2: said that, uh, that zz top was was looking for 987 00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,200 Speaker 2: for management, and that I was on the list of 988 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,000 Speaker 2: people that they wanted to meet with. So as it happened, 989 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:32,680 Speaker 2: zz Top's attorney was John bon Jovi's attorney. John bon 990 00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:38,280 Speaker 2: Jovi is one of my closest friends and my my 991 00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:43,560 Speaker 2: relationship with him was as a promoter, and he's he's 992 00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,600 Speaker 2: you know, we we confide in each other on all 993 00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,120 Speaker 2: kinds of stuff and and actually my my wife is 994 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,120 Speaker 2: extremely friendly with John. Also, when John wants real advice, 995 00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,480 Speaker 2: he'll call Cindy instead of calling me. So so I 996 00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,439 Speaker 2: called John and I said, listen, I'm gonna meet It's easy, 997 00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,600 Speaker 2: and your guys is one of the attorneys on this thing. 998 00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,680 Speaker 2: Can you just put a good word in for me? 999 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,080 Speaker 2: And John said, there, there's there's never been anything that 1000 00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,360 Speaker 2: I thought made more sense than you and z Z 1001 00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:15,040 Speaker 2: after SKINNERD and all that stuff. OK, I appreciate that. 1002 00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:20,840 Speaker 2: So John h John reached out, Uh, this meeting was 1003 00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,560 Speaker 2: set up. I flew into l A, went into a 1004 00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:28,160 Speaker 2: meeting with Billy Gibbons and and and another person was 1005 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,240 Speaker 2: in the in the meeting, not not anybody in the band. 1006 00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,640 Speaker 2: And we had we had them. We had the meeting. 1007 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,600 Speaker 2: And the next like after the meeting, a couple of 1008 00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:39,520 Speaker 2: hours later, I got a call from the attorney and 1009 00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:43,120 Speaker 2: he was like, Bill, Billy was blown away. You're you're gonna, You're, 1010 00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,040 Speaker 2: You're gonna, you're gonna get it. You're gonna get You're 1011 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:50,360 Speaker 2: you're gonna get this. And then whatever happened over the 1012 00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,000 Speaker 2: next forty eight hours, Billy had a meeting with Carl 1013 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,840 Speaker 2: Stubner and the next thing, you know, Carl Stubner became 1014 00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:58,680 Speaker 2: the manager of Eazy and has been the manager of 1015 00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,240 Speaker 2: z Z ever since. So I guess they made, you know, 1016 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:07,480 Speaker 2: a good decision, because it's worked. But I got I 1017 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:11,360 Speaker 2: got like, uh and and and one of the things 1018 00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,920 Speaker 2: that came back to me was, well, you know, you're 1019 00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,800 Speaker 2: just you know, Bill Hamm was just a manager that 1020 00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,840 Speaker 2: was in Houston and just had that office, and you know, 1021 00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,600 Speaker 2: you know, you were you just have the office in 1022 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,200 Speaker 2: Atlanta and and Stubner has a you know, bigger kind 1023 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:29,120 Speaker 2: of uh footprint out there and everything like that, and 1024 00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,560 Speaker 2: I was, I was really kind of bothered by it. 1025 00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,160 Speaker 2: And Rod Essek, that's a really good friend of mine, 1026 00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,720 Speaker 2: that's one of the guys at c AA. He and 1027 00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:38,720 Speaker 2: I were at a show and we were we were talking, 1028 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,640 Speaker 2: and I was like, you know, man, you know, I 1029 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,600 Speaker 2: know this independent thing is is great, and you know, 1030 00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,480 Speaker 2: and I know it's you know, but nobody's there's not 1031 00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,360 Speaker 2: that many independents left anymore. And when I have a 1032 00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,960 Speaker 2: meeting now, I'm like the little guy, and and everybody 1033 00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,080 Speaker 2: else has all these bells and whistles and all this 1034 00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,840 Speaker 2: other kind of shit because they're associated with somebody. And 1035 00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,920 Speaker 2: Rod said to me, well, you had that chance to 1036 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,320 Speaker 2: do that thing with Irving, right, And I said, well, 1037 01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:10,680 Speaker 2: you know, I really thought that to make it work 1038 01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,040 Speaker 2: with Irving, I needed to move to l A. And 1039 01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:14,520 Speaker 2: I'm not I don't want to live in l A. 1040 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,720 Speaker 2: I love Atlanta. I'm not moving. You know, I'll get 1041 01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:21,160 Speaker 2: out of the business before i'll move. And he said, well, 1042 01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,920 Speaker 2: what about corn Capshaw? And I said, I said, do 1043 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,920 Speaker 2: you know two people that are more different than each 1044 01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:33,440 Speaker 2: other than me and Corn and Rod. Rod was like, well, 1045 01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:38,800 Speaker 2: I think McGraw. Corn was handling McGraw at the time, 1046 01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,000 Speaker 2: and him and Rod were talking all the time. And 1047 01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:43,520 Speaker 2: he said, he goes, you don't you don't get it. 1048 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,320 Speaker 2: He goes, he goes, Corn Corn is a great guy, 1049 01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,240 Speaker 2: and he goes, but you know, people, people, people are 1050 01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,840 Speaker 2: afraid of him, or people don't you know people or 1051 01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,360 Speaker 2: whatever it is, they don't you know that Corn. Corn 1052 01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,160 Speaker 2: is very private about everything. And he goes, But I 1053 01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:02,120 Speaker 2: think you and Corn would get along. So I was like, Rod, 1054 01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,560 Speaker 2: let me tell you something, just to make it clear 1055 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,520 Speaker 2: to you. If Corn Capshaw called me on the phone, 1056 01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:11,360 Speaker 2: I of course would talk to him. I would pick 1057 01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,400 Speaker 2: up the phone. I go, but I'm not you know, 1058 01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,040 Speaker 2: I'm not looking. I'm an independent guy. All right. This 1059 01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,960 Speaker 2: is on a Friday in Nashville. All right, Monday, I'm 1060 01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,400 Speaker 2: back in the office. I'm sitting in the office and 1061 01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:26,360 Speaker 2: somebody says in the office, they go, there's a Corn 1062 01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,960 Speaker 2: Capshaw on the phone for you. And I was like, no, 1063 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,280 Speaker 2: that's Rod. I was, that's Rod screwing with me. So 1064 01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:35,480 Speaker 2: I picked up the phone and I go, yeah, and 1065 01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:40,280 Speaker 2: Corn said, Charlie, it's Corn Capshaw. Do you have a moment? 1066 01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,120 Speaker 2: And I was like, it is, hey, Corn, how you doing? 1067 01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,320 Speaker 2: And we started talking and he said I was talking 1068 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,920 Speaker 2: with Rod Essek and Rod Rod thinks that that that 1069 01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:53,200 Speaker 2: you and I should get together and sit down and 1070 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,280 Speaker 2: have a meeting. And he said, he said, would you 1071 01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,520 Speaker 2: would you be interested? He goes, He goes, I really 1072 01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,600 Speaker 2: would like to have an office in Atlanta, and I'd 1073 01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,080 Speaker 2: like to have a presence, and he goes and he goes, 1074 01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,240 Speaker 2: I think we should sit down and talk. And because 1075 01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,640 Speaker 2: way back in the way back years, I managed a 1076 01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:14,720 Speaker 2: Freddie Jones band and the Freddie Jones band was on 1077 01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:18,280 Speaker 2: an entire tour with with with the Dave Matthews band, 1078 01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,840 Speaker 2: and we were the band was was fairly infamous besides 1079 01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:27,400 Speaker 2: their music, with their party and and everybody knew each 1080 01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,240 Speaker 2: other and that that was really kind of and so 1081 01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,360 Speaker 2: I said that, I said, yeah, okay. So for the 1082 01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,160 Speaker 2: next like four or six weeks, Corn and I kept 1083 01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,560 Speaker 2: on trying to figure out someplace that we could get 1084 01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,840 Speaker 2: together to have a meeting where it wasn't changing his 1085 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,520 Speaker 2: top schedule in my schedule, and so finally we had him. 1086 01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,000 Speaker 2: We had a meeting at the Red Light office, the 1087 01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:52,120 Speaker 2: last red light office, not the new not the building 1088 01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,720 Speaker 2: that we that that Corns has in Nashville, but the 1089 01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:59,840 Speaker 2: one that Paradigm and a couple of other agencies were 1090 01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,640 Speaker 2: in that office or in that in that building. We 1091 01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:06,320 Speaker 2: had a meeting. There was nobody else, everybody we we 1092 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,560 Speaker 2: had the meeting after the office was closed so that 1093 01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,000 Speaker 2: nobody would bother us or anything like that. And we 1094 01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:15,000 Speaker 2: sat in a room for forty five minutes or something 1095 01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:18,240 Speaker 2: like that, and he said, you do I think we 1096 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,840 Speaker 2: should make a deal. And I was like, okay, I go, 1097 01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,880 Speaker 2: you know, just you know, one of the things that 1098 01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,760 Speaker 2: i want to make sure of is is that I'm 1099 01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,080 Speaker 2: staying in Atlanta. I don't I'm not gonna And he said, 1100 01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,200 Speaker 2: I'm not going to work. I'm not going to deal 1101 01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,800 Speaker 2: with any of that stuff with you. He said, you're 1102 01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,400 Speaker 2: I know that you're friends with Bruce Eskowitz, that that 1103 01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:42,600 Speaker 2: that's now that's now running our l A stuff and 1104 01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:44,280 Speaker 2: aver that that. I go, yeah, I go, yeah, Bruce 1105 01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,520 Speaker 2: and I know each other from when Bruce started with 1106 01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,880 Speaker 2: Pace with with with Louie. And he said, he said, 1107 01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:55,320 Speaker 2: get on the phone with with Bruce Eskowitz. Make yourself 1108 01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:58,200 Speaker 2: the best deal that you want, and we'll and and 1109 01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,240 Speaker 2: we'll get in business together. And that was in like 1110 01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:08,440 Speaker 2: maybe August of twenty let me see, I got a note, 1111 01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:15,480 Speaker 2: let me see twenty twenty eleven and January one, twenty twelve. 1112 01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:20,040 Speaker 2: The building that I had that was Alliance Artist, which 1113 01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,240 Speaker 2: I owned the building. We went outside and we took 1114 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,160 Speaker 2: the Alliance Artist thing down and we put up a 1115 01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:28,440 Speaker 2: thing that said red Light and I've been I signed. 1116 01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:30,320 Speaker 2: I signed it. Corn and I made a deal for 1117 01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:36,080 Speaker 2: three years and I planned to retire at red Light 1118 01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:38,680 Speaker 2: if I retire. 1119 01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:44,240 Speaker 1: So when you're independent, you get all the money. If 1120 01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,520 Speaker 1: you're working with red Light, red Light's got to get 1121 01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,040 Speaker 1: some of the money. So how does it work out. 1122 01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,080 Speaker 2: It's a fair and equitable deal that we worked out, 1123 01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,960 Speaker 2: and it's worked out great for both of us because 1124 01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,920 Speaker 2: there are artists that have come to us because of 1125 01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,320 Speaker 2: because of the because I'm in red Light. I mean, 1126 01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,479 Speaker 2: just you know, just like I didn't get zz Top, 1127 01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,800 Speaker 2: I got Poison. You know, Poison was was was a 1128 01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:17,640 Speaker 2: collaboration between meeting with the band, with me meeting with 1129 01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,800 Speaker 2: him and Corn meeting with him, and you know, and 1130 01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,480 Speaker 2: and you know that you know that the red light. 1131 01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:28,440 Speaker 2: The red light brings attention and and and uh and 1132 01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,919 Speaker 2: you know I I I don't. I don't particularly take 1133 01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:36,600 Speaker 2: meetings with and and go with every band that that's 1134 01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,439 Speaker 2: out there, that that you know, somebody from Red Lighter. 1135 01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:41,560 Speaker 2: Corn will say to me, Hey, so and so is available, 1136 01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,440 Speaker 2: and I'll go like, that's not, that's not that's not 1137 01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:48,520 Speaker 2: for me, that's not, that's not. I I'm listen, I'm 1138 01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,280 Speaker 2: I'm seventy two years old now. I I have the 1139 01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,520 Speaker 2: power to say no. I have the power to be choosy. 1140 01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,720 Speaker 2: I don't give a I don't care really a whole 1141 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:02,480 Speaker 2: lot about the money, you know it. You know, it's 1142 01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:04,919 Speaker 2: not about It's like Bill Graham, it's not about the money. 1143 01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,720 Speaker 2: It's about the money. But I mean, that's not what 1144 01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,920 Speaker 2: drives me. And that's just it's just not what drives me. 1145 01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:16,040 Speaker 2: And you know, I I do this stuff because I'm 1146 01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:20,560 Speaker 2: because I'm passionate about it. And and one of the 1147 01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:24,120 Speaker 2: more passionate other managers that I know is Corn. I 1148 01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,880 Speaker 2: mean Corn is you know, I actually don't. I don't 1149 01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:33,680 Speaker 2: know how somebody's brain operates the way Corn's brain operates 1150 01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:37,320 Speaker 2: with everything that he does. I mean, he's he and 1151 01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,640 Speaker 2: he knows what's going on on, everything that's that's going on. 1152 01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:42,920 Speaker 2: That's that's way too much for me. That's like when 1153 01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,640 Speaker 2: when we were at that that that dinner the other 1154 01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,000 Speaker 2: night and you and I and Corn were standing there talking. 1155 01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:52,040 Speaker 2: I mean, the most fascinating thing to me about our 1156 01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,280 Speaker 2: little exchange during everything at that is you guys started 1157 01:06:55,400 --> 01:07:00,360 Speaker 2: talking about books that you're reading, and like, you know, 1158 01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,240 Speaker 2: if I read a book, I'm reading a biography about 1159 01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,280 Speaker 2: somebody that's been in the business or an artist or 1160 01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,440 Speaker 2: something like that. And you guys were talking about stuff 1161 01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:14,640 Speaker 2: that was completely and and and I was like and 1162 01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:17,200 Speaker 2: and I was thinking to myself, you the two of 1163 01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:21,960 Speaker 2: you have time to read books about ship that doesn't 1164 01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,040 Speaker 2: have anything to do with what's going on with us 1165 01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,200 Speaker 2: all the time. And and you weren't. You were you 1166 01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:30,800 Speaker 2: guys were talking, so you didn't get it like I did. 1167 01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,000 Speaker 2: But I was watching how passionate you guys got about 1168 01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:36,920 Speaker 2: what books you were reading. And I was thinking, I 1169 01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:40,280 Speaker 2: was thinking, to myself, that's that's you know, you get 1170 01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,080 Speaker 2: a surprise every now and then. But that's really surprising 1171 01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:45,760 Speaker 2: to me that that's that's something because I would think 1172 01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,520 Speaker 2: that most of what you're interested in or he's interested in, 1173 01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:52,560 Speaker 2: revolves around that. You know, this world and and and 1174 01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,960 Speaker 2: and I don't have time for anything out of this 1175 01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:00,160 Speaker 2: world unless it's you know, going back and you know 1176 01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:04,120 Speaker 2: the Keith Richards book or the Bill Graham book or 1177 01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:06,920 Speaker 2: the Peter Grant book or you know any of you know, 1178 01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,440 Speaker 2: that stuff in the new Dave Mason book. I mean 1179 01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:13,720 Speaker 2: just was eye opening to me because it's a it's 1180 01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:17,000 Speaker 2: a snapshot in time of what was going on for 1181 01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:20,919 Speaker 2: you know, when this business was, you know, in its infancy. 1182 01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,160 Speaker 2: I mean, you know when I started going to shows, 1183 01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:27,280 Speaker 2: I mean bands, bands barely had what was called production. 1184 01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:30,320 Speaker 2: You used whatever the promoter provided for you. I mean, 1185 01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:34,160 Speaker 2: you know, there wasn't you know, you know, Frank Barcelona 1186 01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:38,439 Speaker 2: was controlling everything that was going on, you know, at 1187 01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,880 Speaker 2: the beginning of and A. David Krab, David Krebs, you know, 1188 01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,200 Speaker 2: Libra Crebs. I mean, there was there were those power people. 1189 01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:47,800 Speaker 2: I just got lucky when I was in college that 1190 01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,759 Speaker 2: that I went to all these shows with the Balkans 1191 01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:57,120 Speaker 2: were promoting in Cleveland, and I saw kind of from 1192 01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:02,400 Speaker 2: from Mike Belkan kind of being nice to me. I 1193 01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,200 Speaker 2: kind of saw this world where and it's kind of 1194 01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:10,280 Speaker 2: been my path where a manager could be a promoter 1195 01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,400 Speaker 2: and a promoter could be a manager, because that's what 1196 01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:17,160 Speaker 2: they did. Mike managed the you know, the James Gang 1197 01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:20,600 Speaker 2: and and and Wild Cherry and and and bands and 1198 01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,800 Speaker 2: they but they still had the biggest promoter company in 1199 01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:27,000 Speaker 2: in the world for a while. In the business it 1200 01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:29,680 Speaker 2: got very defined. You you weren't on both sides of 1201 01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:34,760 Speaker 2: the fence. But I I jump, I jumped back and forth. 1202 01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:43,880 Speaker 2: Let's go back to the beginning. So you're from Pittsburgh. 1203 01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:49,160 Speaker 2: I'm from Pittsburgh, Yes, like the actual city or a suburb, 1204 01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:54,640 Speaker 2: a suburb, a sub suburb of Pittsburgh. And what did 1205 01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:59,200 Speaker 2: your parents do for a living? My father, my father 1206 01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:06,839 Speaker 2: owned a a small hang out restaurant that the client 1207 01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:12,479 Speaker 2: tele was mainly mobsters or music people like Frank Sinatra 1208 01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:17,400 Speaker 2: and people like that. And the bar club only held 1209 01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:23,320 Speaker 2: probably sixty people, but it was always open after hours 1210 01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:25,680 Speaker 2: because all the cops in the neighborhood were on the 1211 01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,360 Speaker 2: take and when everybody else had to close at two 1212 01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,120 Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning, my dad, my dad was able 1213 01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:34,200 Speaker 2: to you know, have the door and people would knock 1214 01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,240 Speaker 2: on the door and they'd let him in at two 1215 01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:38,120 Speaker 2: thirty in the morning and the place would close at 1216 01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:42,160 Speaker 2: five in the morning, and h and and he he 1217 01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:46,519 Speaker 2: he did that while I was a kid, and and 1218 01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:52,200 Speaker 2: my mother was my mother was just a housewife until 1219 01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:55,800 Speaker 2: my dad decided that he wanted to get out of 1220 01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,200 Speaker 2: the business. So therefore there was gonna have to be 1221 01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:00,960 Speaker 2: more money come in. And my mother became a very 1222 01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,880 Speaker 2: very big time real estate agent both in uh In 1223 01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:08,479 Speaker 2: in Pittsburgh, and then when they retired, she's she kept 1224 01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:11,920 Speaker 2: working and doing real estate in uh In, Florida because 1225 01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,720 Speaker 2: she enjoyed doing it. And it's you know, it was 1226 01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:19,280 Speaker 2: uh so. So I I grew up kind of with 1227 01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:22,639 Speaker 2: a lot of street smarts. And and when I when 1228 01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:24,479 Speaker 2: I when I had this thing. I had a band 1229 01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:26,519 Speaker 2: when I was in in high school and the band 1230 01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:28,600 Speaker 2: came to me. We had we were kind of like 1231 01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:31,200 Speaker 2: three dog Night. We had three singers, and they had 1232 01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,080 Speaker 2: a meeting that I wasn't in, and they came to 1233 01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:35,800 Speaker 2: me and they said, listen, there's bad news here. You 1234 01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:39,240 Speaker 2: can't sing. But the good news is is you get 1235 01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:41,439 Speaker 2: all of our bookings for us. So we want you 1236 01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,200 Speaker 2: to like book us and manage us. So so I 1237 01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:47,640 Speaker 2: I did that with with with the band until I 1238 01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:52,320 Speaker 2: it became time to graduate from high school and I 1239 01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,400 Speaker 2: was working for a summer for my dad and he 1240 01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:59,519 Speaker 2: had this big, huge broiler for cooking steaks, and in 1241 01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,960 Speaker 2: front of the broiler was where you cleaned the dishes, 1242 01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:04,360 Speaker 2: and I would clean the dishes in front of this 1243 01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,360 Speaker 2: like broiler that was like give giving me a son 1244 01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,880 Speaker 2: tan on my back. And one night I came home 1245 01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,320 Speaker 2: and I was bitching about working in the restaurant and 1246 01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,960 Speaker 2: everything like that, and my mother said to me, you 1247 01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,519 Speaker 2: need to go to college. And I said, mother, who 1248 01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:23,920 Speaker 2: are you kidding? I have like a one point nine 1249 01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,960 Speaker 2: grade point average. I'm not getting in any college. He said, 1250 01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:30,680 Speaker 2: I'm going to get you into college, and you're going 1251 01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,360 Speaker 2: to go to college because if you don't go to college, 1252 01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,000 Speaker 2: you're going to be working in that restaurant for your 1253 01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,880 Speaker 2: father for for long, you know. And she goes, I 1254 01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:40,960 Speaker 2: don't want to put up with it. So there was 1255 01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:46,120 Speaker 2: this remedial kind of work your way into college situation 1256 01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:51,519 Speaker 2: at this small college in Ashland, Ohio that my mother 1257 01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:54,120 Speaker 2: somehow the I guess somebody at the at our high 1258 01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:56,800 Speaker 2: school told her about it, and she searched somebody out 1259 01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:58,320 Speaker 2: there and they got us a meeting and we went 1260 01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:01,200 Speaker 2: on and there was the first time that they were 1261 01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:05,559 Speaker 2: trying this, and they were letting like misfits that didn't 1262 01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:08,040 Speaker 2: have the grades to get into the school. They were 1263 01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:10,840 Speaker 2: letting us come for summer school. And if we were 1264 01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:15,400 Speaker 2: able to operate in summer school, then that we could 1265 01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:17,960 Speaker 2: we could come back in the in the fall. So 1266 01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:22,680 Speaker 2: we all went to there's probably forty or fifty of 1267 01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:24,599 Speaker 2: us or something like that, and there was a crowd 1268 01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:27,599 Speaker 2: of maybe fifteen or twenty of us that all became 1269 01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:32,280 Speaker 2: buddies from the school, and we all faked our way 1270 01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:38,320 Speaker 2: through four years of college, you know, just you know, 1271 01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,720 Speaker 2: when it came time to take tests, I you know, 1272 01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,519 Speaker 2: I'd get white crosses and read everything for three days 1273 01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:48,800 Speaker 2: in a row and take the test and pass the test. 1274 01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:51,640 Speaker 2: But I wouldn't show up for classes. I wouldn't do that. 1275 01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:57,839 Speaker 2: I got on the student Senate and I started booking 1276 01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:01,760 Speaker 2: shows entertainment wise, and they had been having you know, 1277 01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:04,760 Speaker 2: like The Fifth Dimension and shit like that, and then 1278 01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,639 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I'm bringing and I started doing 1279 01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:11,240 Speaker 2: it with Belkan College concerts. I started bringing the James 1280 01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:15,439 Speaker 2: Gang and like lou Reid and Poco and all these 1281 01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,679 Speaker 2: bands that I was into. I started getting them because 1282 01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:22,240 Speaker 2: I had the school's money. So you know, it was 1283 01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:25,600 Speaker 2: the student fund to put on, you know, concerts, So 1284 01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:27,840 Speaker 2: it didn't matter if we made money or not. We 1285 01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:30,439 Speaker 2: just had the We just had the you know, we 1286 01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:33,840 Speaker 2: just had the you know, bring talent in. So you know, 1287 01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,519 Speaker 2: I did that and ran back and forth to Cleveland, 1288 01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:41,439 Speaker 2: saw every act that, you know, all the packages, all 1289 01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:44,760 Speaker 2: the stuff that was going on from nineteen sixty nine 1290 01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:51,040 Speaker 2: until nineteen seventy three and I graduated and I left college, 1291 01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:54,880 Speaker 2: went home. They had a graduation party for me and 1292 01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:59,200 Speaker 2: a friend of my father's that had some business that 1293 01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:03,400 Speaker 2: that had a lot of cash, and a friend of 1294 01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:05,559 Speaker 2: mine that I went to college as father put up 1295 01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,760 Speaker 2: I think they each each one put up like one 1296 01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:11,200 Speaker 2: hundred or one hundred and fifty thousand dollars each. And 1297 01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,639 Speaker 2: we moved to Florida to start promoting concerts in Florida, 1298 01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:16,680 Speaker 2: which we had no idea how we were going to 1299 01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:20,160 Speaker 2: get any concerts or anything like that. And because when 1300 01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:23,280 Speaker 2: I was in college there was the college booking division 1301 01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:27,240 Speaker 2: of Belkan. I went to the University of South Florida. 1302 01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:29,840 Speaker 2: There was a guy named Rick Alter that was the 1303 01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:34,160 Speaker 2: head of the student stuff. He wasn't a student, but 1304 01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:37,800 Speaker 2: he was the one that made decisions about music and 1305 01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:39,479 Speaker 2: every like that. And we were talking to him about 1306 01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,760 Speaker 2: we wanted to buy the talent for them, and we 1307 01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:46,639 Speaker 2: were finishing up the meeting and he said, if you're 1308 01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:50,040 Speaker 2: not doing anything tomorrow night, you should come up to 1309 01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,760 Speaker 2: the We have a grassy hill here and we have 1310 01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,960 Speaker 2: groups play outside. And he goes, there's a band that's 1311 01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:00,000 Speaker 2: local here. They've been in Colorado for a little while, 1312 01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:02,200 Speaker 2: but they're coming back and this is the first time 1313 01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:04,280 Speaker 2: they're back in Tampa in like a few months or 1314 01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:07,240 Speaker 2: something like that, and they're called the Outlaws, and you 1315 01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:10,400 Speaker 2: should come see this band. So I went sat on 1316 01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:14,400 Speaker 2: the hill watched watched this band just blaze with the 1317 01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:17,080 Speaker 2: guitars and everything like that. When they were done, I 1318 01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:20,920 Speaker 2: knew how to just walk and get backstage. I walked around, 1319 01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:24,240 Speaker 2: walked up, saw Henry Paul. Walked up to Henry Paul 1320 01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:27,320 Speaker 2: and said, hey, you guys are pretty good. Do you 1321 01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:29,560 Speaker 2: have a manager? And he was like no, And I 1322 01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:33,800 Speaker 2: said I'd like to manage you. And he goes, really, 1323 01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:35,880 Speaker 2: what do you doing. We had cards made up for 1324 01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:38,400 Speaker 2: this production company we had and gave him a caartner. 1325 01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:40,600 Speaker 2: We had that, and I said, let's why don't you 1326 01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,559 Speaker 2: guys come by. We're Ken Ken, this guy Ken Kraus 1327 01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:45,880 Speaker 2: was my partner. Why don't you come by and and 1328 01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,559 Speaker 2: uh tomorrow and we'll sit down and we'll talk. Band 1329 01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:53,720 Speaker 2: came by and we just started talking and started managing them, 1330 01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:56,160 Speaker 2: and next thing you know, I was in a con 1331 01:16:56,240 --> 01:16:59,360 Speaker 2: Aline van going all around the country and and we 1332 01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:02,759 Speaker 2: you know, we we we played a bunch of dates 1333 01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:08,040 Speaker 2: with Skinnard, who was we became fast friends with and uh, 1334 01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:14,759 Speaker 2: Peter Rudge was was was just getting this the skinnered 1335 01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:18,439 Speaker 2: thing he was. He was becoming Skynyrd's manager. Alan Walden 1336 01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:20,799 Speaker 2: that was the former manager of Skinnerd was my partner 1337 01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:25,280 Speaker 2: at that point on on on management Outlaws management, and 1338 01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:31,880 Speaker 2: we uh uh the band opened up a couple of shows. 1339 01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:35,920 Speaker 2: Skinnered guys started talking about how good the Outlaws guys were. 1340 01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,519 Speaker 2: Somebody said something to an A and R guy that 1341 01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:43,400 Speaker 2: was at a new label that that was being started 1342 01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,080 Speaker 2: up by a guy named Clive Davis and was called 1343 01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:49,800 Speaker 2: Arista Records, And I got a call from this A 1344 01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:51,800 Speaker 2: and R guy, and he was like, I'd like to 1345 01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:54,479 Speaker 2: come see the band. I want to come on Clive 1346 01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:57,720 Speaker 2: Davis's behalf to see the band in Orlando. I see 1347 01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,760 Speaker 2: you're playing with Leonard Skinner. He came and saw. We 1348 01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,960 Speaker 2: went to a payphone and called Clive and fight and 1349 01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:09,599 Speaker 2: told Clive how great the band was. Clive, we heard 1350 01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:15,120 Speaker 2: all the stuff. Clive came to flew into Atlanta, changed planes, 1351 01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:17,600 Speaker 2: which he didn't really like that whole idea, but we 1352 01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:20,640 Speaker 2: I met him at the airport. We flew together to 1353 01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:26,640 Speaker 2: uh Columbus, Georgia, where where the Outlaws were opening for 1354 01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:31,559 Speaker 2: Leonard Skinner and Clive saw Skinner. I saw the Outlaws. 1355 01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:35,800 Speaker 2: We were walking to go to the hotel to sit 1356 01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:38,479 Speaker 2: down to talk about it. He was blown away. And 1357 01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:41,960 Speaker 2: as we were walking, Ronnie van Zandt and Leonard Skinner 1358 01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:46,640 Speaker 2: were headed to the stage and we got stopped and 1359 01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:50,400 Speaker 2: Ronnie came over to Clive Davis and said, you're hey, 1360 01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:53,040 Speaker 2: I'm Ronnie van Zant. You're Clive Davis, right, And he 1361 01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,880 Speaker 2: goes yeah, and he goes he goes, uh, I'll tell 1362 01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:58,479 Speaker 2: you what I hear you you're here to sign the Outlaws. 1363 01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:01,040 Speaker 2: If you don't sign that band. You're you're the dumbest 1364 01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:05,120 Speaker 2: person that I know. And and Clive said, we were 1365 01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:07,920 Speaker 2: on our way to discuss that before you stopped us. 1366 01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:11,639 Speaker 2: And we went and we worked out a record deal 1367 01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:14,320 Speaker 2: for the Outlaws, and you know, we put we we 1368 01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:20,320 Speaker 2: went to l A recorded the first record, and all 1369 01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:23,000 Speaker 2: of a sudden we were on the radio all over 1370 01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:24,880 Speaker 2: the place in FM radio. We had a couple of 1371 01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:27,400 Speaker 2: songs on the radio. There Goes another love song, green 1372 01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:30,479 Speaker 2: Grass was on all the FM stations. And then I 1373 01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:34,120 Speaker 2: got a call from a guy named Dan Winer, and 1374 01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:38,519 Speaker 2: Dan said, or at Michael Kleffner that was at Arista, 1375 01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:42,040 Speaker 2: had me called Dan Winer. And Dan Winer said, I've 1376 01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:45,080 Speaker 2: got this tour this summer that that uh that you 1377 01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:47,760 Speaker 2: guys could be Outlaws could be the opening act. It's 1378 01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:51,599 Speaker 2: it's all arenas and it's the Doobie Brothers. And we did. 1379 01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:53,720 Speaker 2: We did all the arenas with the Doobie Brothers, and 1380 01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:55,960 Speaker 2: when we got off on the other side, we were 1381 01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:59,439 Speaker 2: selling thousands that you know, whatever amount of tickets everywhere 1382 01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:04,759 Speaker 2: and you know, let's see, that's that's seventy five, seventy 1383 01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:12,040 Speaker 2: that's seventy five and seventy nine, we headlined Madison Square Garden. Okay, wait, well, 1384 01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:16,759 Speaker 2: let's go back a few chapters. Do you have any siblings? Sister? 1385 01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:23,200 Speaker 2: She my sister Phyllis. My introduction to her was when 1386 01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:26,280 Speaker 2: I was christened. I was upstairs in a basinet and 1387 01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:28,800 Speaker 2: everybody was bringing me presents downstairs, and she was like 1388 01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:31,120 Speaker 2: six years old, and she came up and slapped me 1389 01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:34,160 Speaker 2: in the face because she was pissed off because because 1390 01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:36,439 Speaker 2: I was getting all the presents and she wasn't getting 1391 01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,800 Speaker 2: the attention that she had had for six years. And 1392 01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:44,639 Speaker 2: she worked for me for I don't know, she worked 1393 01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:47,280 Speaker 2: for me for probably twenty twenty five years or something 1394 01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:50,120 Speaker 2: like that. She went through good times, bad times, all 1395 01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:55,280 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, and then maybe maybe four or 1396 01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:57,840 Speaker 2: four years ago or something like that, she retired. She's 1397 01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:01,200 Speaker 2: she's she's six years old to the max. She's she's 1398 01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:03,640 Speaker 2: seventy eight. She'll beat She'll be seventy nine this year. 1399 01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:08,759 Speaker 1: Why did you move to Florida to start a promotion company? 1400 01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:11,280 Speaker 1: They're fifty states, you're from the Midwest. 1401 01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:15,360 Speaker 2: The weather, the weather it was. I'd love to say 1402 01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:17,800 Speaker 2: that there was some kind of a real, kind of 1403 01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:20,960 Speaker 2: thoughtful process in it. We like, you know, me and 1404 01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:23,519 Speaker 2: the guy that that I started with, we we liked Florida, 1405 01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:25,200 Speaker 2: and we were like, hey, hey, where do we want 1406 01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:26,400 Speaker 2: to go in Florida. Well, we don't want to be 1407 01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:28,840 Speaker 2: in South Florida, so let's go to Tampa. So we 1408 01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:31,400 Speaker 2: went to Tampa and and quite frankly, if we don't 1409 01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:38,200 Speaker 2: make that decision, probably nothing happens because I don't end 1410 01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:40,920 Speaker 2: up on that hill at the University of South Florida 1411 01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:44,320 Speaker 2: that night. Okay, since you mentioned how'd you meet your wife? 1412 01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:54,240 Speaker 2: How did I meet my wife? Where? Oh? Oh, yeah, 1413 01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:57,840 Speaker 2: that's right. How did I miss that? Okay? A friend 1414 01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:03,600 Speaker 2: of mine, George Capellini, was the the head of some 1415 01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:09,040 Speaker 2: some division of national promotion for Geffen Records, and he 1416 01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:14,200 Speaker 2: was having a listening party at at at the Rich 1417 01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:19,960 Speaker 2: Carlton for Robbie Robertson, and I was in between wives 1418 01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:22,920 Speaker 2: at the time. I was I was I was newly 1419 01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:28,120 Speaker 2: newly divorced again. Wait wait, wait, how many times you've 1420 01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:32,760 Speaker 2: been married? I've been I've been married four times to 1421 01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:37,679 Speaker 2: three women. Okay, which one of the one? There's one, 1422 01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:40,760 Speaker 2: there's two, and then there's three and four and three 1423 01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:44,720 Speaker 2: and four Cindya is both okay, continue the story, all right. 1424 01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:50,599 Speaker 2: So so, so I I was. I was dating Uh, 1425 01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:57,040 Speaker 2: a newscaster that was on CNN and was a kind 1426 01:22:57,080 --> 01:23:02,040 Speaker 2: of like a local celebrity. But things weren't that great 1427 01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:05,000 Speaker 2: between us, and she was she was always like if 1428 01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:07,320 Speaker 2: we were going, if we were meeting somewhere, she was 1429 01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:11,720 Speaker 2: always late or anything whatever. And she's going to meet 1430 01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:14,519 Speaker 2: me and a friend of mine. They're going to meet 1431 01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:21,320 Speaker 2: us at this listening party. So so we're She's late 1432 01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:24,720 Speaker 2: as always, and we're waiting. We're standing there and I 1433 01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:29,080 Speaker 2: look across the room and I see this beautiful redhead 1434 01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:34,240 Speaker 2: standing over by where the wine stuff isn't She's dressed 1435 01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:37,240 Speaker 2: all in black, and she's not dressed like the rock 1436 01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:39,880 Speaker 2: people that are there from radio stations and all that. 1437 01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:42,519 Speaker 2: For so, I thought she worked for the rich carl 1438 01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:49,479 Speaker 2: So I went over and I said, hey, can I 1439 01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:51,479 Speaker 2: thought she was poor and wine for people or whatever. 1440 01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:53,439 Speaker 2: And I said, you know, can I have a glass wine? 1441 01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:55,720 Speaker 2: She said, yeah, we have anything you want, but you know, 1442 01:23:56,160 --> 01:23:58,600 Speaker 2: you know, I don't work here. And I was like, 1443 01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:01,000 Speaker 2: oh oh. And so I started talking to her, and 1444 01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:02,920 Speaker 2: I'm keeping an eye on the door to see if 1445 01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:05,960 Speaker 2: the newscast are showing up and there's nowhere to be 1446 01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:10,000 Speaker 2: sid So I said to her, I said, listen, I'll 1447 01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:12,760 Speaker 2: tell you the truth. I have I have, I have 1448 01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:15,400 Speaker 2: somebody coming here to meet me. But i'd i'd like 1449 01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:17,240 Speaker 2: to I'd like to call you. Can Can I get 1450 01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:20,400 Speaker 2: your telephone number? And she said yeah, okay, So she 1451 01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:23,280 Speaker 2: gave me her phone number. So I went, I went, 1452 01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:26,560 Speaker 2: dropped the the newscaster off, and it's like now, like 1453 01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:28,720 Speaker 2: one o'clock in the morning or something like that, and 1454 01:24:29,080 --> 01:24:31,400 Speaker 2: and I'm headed to my house and you had those phones, 1455 01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:33,840 Speaker 2: big huge phones that were so I was like, oh, 1456 01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:36,760 Speaker 2: I got her phone number, I'll call her. So I 1457 01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:39,760 Speaker 2: called and I said, hey, you know, I just met 1458 01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:43,000 Speaker 2: and the person on the other end of the phone said, 1459 01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:46,559 Speaker 2: do you know that it's one o'clock in the morning. 1460 01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:49,320 Speaker 2: And I don't know? And it was it was her 1461 01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:52,320 Speaker 2: mother because she was she was she was in between 1462 01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:55,640 Speaker 2: relationships also, and she was living at home for a 1463 01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:59,000 Speaker 2: little while. So the next morning, at seven o'clock in 1464 01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:02,320 Speaker 2: the morning, she call me and was like, do you 1465 01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:04,599 Speaker 2: know that you woke my mother. I was like, oh, 1466 01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:07,479 Speaker 2: my god. And and so I said, I said, let 1467 01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:09,040 Speaker 2: me let me, let me make this, let me make 1468 01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:11,400 Speaker 2: this right for Let's let's go out and have dinner. 1469 01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:15,360 Speaker 2: And she said, she said, well, we could do that, 1470 01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:17,160 Speaker 2: but I can't do it on this kind of short 1471 01:25:17,240 --> 01:25:20,320 Speaker 2: notice because I have I have a son and he's 1472 01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:23,400 Speaker 2: he's young. And I said, well, I'll tell you what. 1473 01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:25,720 Speaker 2: I have a friend that's that's staying at my house 1474 01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:28,280 Speaker 2: and he has a young son. Also, how about if 1475 01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:31,160 Speaker 2: the kids stay with him and we'll just go to dinner. 1476 01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:35,639 Speaker 2: That's it. We'll just go to dinner. And that started. 1477 01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:41,120 Speaker 2: That started, U you know, a thirty some year relationship. 1478 01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:46,320 Speaker 2: We've been married twice. Wait, tell me about the divorce. 1479 01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:48,080 Speaker 2: In the remarriage, we. 1480 01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:48,880 Speaker 1: Just we got. 1481 01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:52,320 Speaker 2: We got we're both kind of and we were younger, 1482 01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:55,880 Speaker 2: and we were both kind of like overreacting to a 1483 01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:58,680 Speaker 2: bunch of stuff that was going on, and we decided 1484 01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:03,000 Speaker 2: we we we really got ugly, and we got all 1485 01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:06,559 Speaker 2: the way to the point where we had a divorce 1486 01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:10,920 Speaker 2: agreement to sign, and we decided to go to have 1487 01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:15,080 Speaker 2: dinner to sign the divorce agreement. So we went to 1488 01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:19,640 Speaker 2: dinner and we decided at the dinner we didn't want 1489 01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:22,040 Speaker 2: we wanted to give it another shot. I called my 1490 01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:25,360 Speaker 2: attorney and I said, listen, we're going to rip up 1491 01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:28,040 Speaker 2: the agreement. And she said I had a female attorney 1492 01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:31,200 Speaker 2: and she said, no, you're not. She said, because you 1493 01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:34,320 Speaker 2: have an agreement there. And she said you both should 1494 01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:39,280 Speaker 2: sign the agreement because then you'll be divorced and you'll 1495 01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:44,800 Speaker 2: start new. And she said, and you can always get remarried. 1496 01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:48,599 Speaker 2: She goes, but you've spent all this money for these 1497 01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:52,160 Speaker 2: divorce papers. If this doesn't work out in six months, 1498 01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:55,400 Speaker 2: you can't use that same divorce agreement. You'll have gotten 1499 01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:58,360 Speaker 2: back together and everything will have to be changed again. 1500 01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:01,120 Speaker 2: And I was like, I went back to Cindy, and 1501 01:27:01,160 --> 01:27:05,280 Speaker 2: Cindy was like, whatever, whatever, we'll we'll, you know, let 1502 01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:08,360 Speaker 2: let's let's let's let's get back together. And then we 1503 01:27:08,479 --> 01:27:10,439 Speaker 2: had the because it was pretty ugly all the stuff 1504 01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:12,840 Speaker 2: that was going on between us, we had to we 1505 01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:15,800 Speaker 2: had to go break it to everybody that we were 1506 01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:18,800 Speaker 2: that we were getting back together, which which took a 1507 01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:25,000 Speaker 2: little while, but you know it it was a it 1508 01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:28,040 Speaker 2: was a four month period of time that that we 1509 01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:31,840 Speaker 2: would we just you know, it did help. I mean 1510 01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:35,000 Speaker 2: it we did cut. We did cut that and put 1511 01:27:35,040 --> 01:27:37,479 Speaker 2: that behind and we went forward, and I'll tell you 1512 01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:40,519 Speaker 2: a really interesting thing. The first we got married. The 1513 01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:43,280 Speaker 2: first time, we got married at the Rich Carlton in 1514 01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:46,000 Speaker 2: the same room that we met in Okay. And then 1515 01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:49,000 Speaker 2: we had a small amount of people at the actual 1516 01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:51,840 Speaker 2: wedding itself, maybe twenty or twenty five family members, and 1517 01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:55,120 Speaker 2: Gary Rossington was in the in the wedding and or 1518 01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:58,840 Speaker 2: in the ceremony and all that stuff. And and then 1519 01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:03,920 Speaker 2: we had the reception at the Fox Theater for three 1520 01:28:04,120 --> 01:28:08,240 Speaker 2: hundred people. That was the first wedding. The second wedding 1521 01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:11,200 Speaker 2: was after Stix. We did these big nine to eleven 1522 01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:15,839 Speaker 2: uh nine to eleven benefits in in uh Uh, Atlanta 1523 01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:19,640 Speaker 2: and Dallas with Sticks and Bad Company in Kansas and 1524 01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:21,519 Speaker 2: Leonard Skinner and all that, and we raised a bunch 1525 01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:24,120 Speaker 2: of money for the Port Authority Police Department. We did. 1526 01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:26,519 Speaker 2: We did two nights back to back, and we were 1527 01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:29,400 Speaker 2: going on vacation. Right after that, we went to Nevas 1528 01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:32,439 Speaker 2: and we were we were because of everything that was 1529 01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:34,920 Speaker 2: going on and everything like that. When we got to 1530 01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:40,200 Speaker 2: Nevas uh Uh, she said to me, you said, whenever 1531 01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:42,680 Speaker 2: we felt like we could get we we we we. 1532 01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:44,960 Speaker 2: All I had to say was I was ready to 1533 01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,280 Speaker 2: get remarried and you'd be good with it. And I 1534 01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:49,920 Speaker 2: said yeah, and she said, let's get married. And I 1535 01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:54,120 Speaker 2: said when she said Saturday? And I said, I said 1536 01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:56,760 Speaker 2: really and she said yeah. And I said, well, you know, 1537 01:28:56,920 --> 01:28:58,680 Speaker 2: let's find out what we got to do. Well, you 1538 01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:02,240 Speaker 2: gotta you gotta have of you know, the blessing or 1539 01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:05,400 Speaker 2: the You got to go to the magistrate. That's the 1540 01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,400 Speaker 2: that's basically the mayor of Nevs or the governor of 1541 01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:10,439 Speaker 2: Neivas or whatever it is. You got to meet with 1542 01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:12,920 Speaker 2: them and they get So we went in and we 1543 01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:15,800 Speaker 2: gave them our passports. Well, she hadn't changed her passport 1544 01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:20,160 Speaker 2: from Cindy Bruscoe because during that time period there was 1545 01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:23,040 Speaker 2: no reason to change your passport. We were only split 1546 01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:25,080 Speaker 2: up for you know, for four months or whatever it was. 1547 01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:28,599 Speaker 2: So the woman looks at the passports and she looks 1548 01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:31,519 Speaker 2: at Charlie Bruscowe and she goes, she looks at Cindy 1549 01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:33,400 Speaker 2: Bruscoe and she looks back at us, and she goes, 1550 01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:38,920 Speaker 2: what's your two relationship? Because if you're related, we can't 1551 01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:44,000 Speaker 2: marry you done. And I was like what and she 1552 01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:46,560 Speaker 2: was like, you both have the same last name. And 1553 01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:49,320 Speaker 2: I goes, oh, no, no, no, we've we've been the divorced, 1554 01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:52,839 Speaker 2: and she said, okay, I need to see your divorce papers. 1555 01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:57,160 Speaker 2: So we had to hit the attorneys and and this 1556 01:29:57,360 --> 01:29:59,880 Speaker 2: is all happening in one week. We had to get 1557 01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:02,080 Speaker 2: all are we had to get whatever the amount of 1558 01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:04,479 Speaker 2: pages that this divorce agreep was. We had to get 1559 01:30:04,920 --> 01:30:08,360 Speaker 2: that faxed down to the Rich Car No, the Four 1560 01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:11,880 Speaker 2: Seasons Hotel in Navas. We had to get it faxed there. 1561 01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:15,320 Speaker 2: Then we had to go back downtown show her the paperwork. 1562 01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:20,479 Speaker 2: And the second wedding was held on the between the 1563 01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:24,400 Speaker 2: eighteenth hole of the golf course at Navas and the 1564 01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:26,960 Speaker 2: and the ocean and the and the and the beach 1565 01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:31,640 Speaker 2: and the two of us and three people that we 1566 01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:34,680 Speaker 2: didn't know that. We had to have the person that 1567 01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:37,880 Speaker 2: did the ceremony, and then we had to have someone 1568 01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:39,880 Speaker 2: that was a witness, and then there was somebody else there. 1569 01:30:40,160 --> 01:30:43,040 Speaker 2: So we went from having a wedding with you know, 1570 01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:46,200 Speaker 2: an afterthing of three hundred people to just the two 1571 01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:48,400 Speaker 2: of us and that and that's the one that worked. 1572 01:30:56,160 --> 01:30:58,280 Speaker 2: How many kids do you have and what are they too? 1573 01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:07,960 Speaker 2: We both have a child. Mine is my daughter. Her 1574 01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:13,320 Speaker 2: name is Rhiannon. She's she has a we have a 1575 01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:19,000 Speaker 2: granddaughter with her, Lucia, who's just turned eleven. And grandchildren 1576 01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:25,439 Speaker 2: are the best thing that happens to you. Children are 1577 01:31:26,240 --> 01:31:29,080 Speaker 2: much more of a problem than grandchildren because because children 1578 01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:32,760 Speaker 2: stay with you, grand your grandchildren go home. And then 1579 01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:37,840 Speaker 2: Cindy's son, which is not my son, but he calls 1580 01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:42,599 Speaker 2: me dad, and he's been with me for thirty thirty 1581 01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:46,240 Speaker 2: some years or whatever and works for me and has 1582 01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:53,519 Speaker 2: worked in my office for thirteen fourteen years. He has 1583 01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:59,960 Speaker 2: a nine year old son, Landon. That just is there 1584 01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:03,360 Speaker 2: those two kids or you know, that's that's that's the 1585 01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:06,760 Speaker 2: the except for that, they're the most enjoyable part of 1586 01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:10,760 Speaker 2: everything that we do. You know, I have Cindy was, 1587 01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:13,040 Speaker 2: Cindy was, I think you're in Colorado. But Cindy was 1588 01:32:13,080 --> 01:32:16,479 Speaker 2: in Colorado for her birthday with her girlfriend last week. 1589 01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,639 Speaker 2: She does that every year. Last last year I went 1590 01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:22,720 Speaker 2: because I had stick, explained at the Valars Center on 1591 01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:28,320 Speaker 2: her birthday. But uh, she was in Colorado and she 1592 01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:32,880 Speaker 2: was coming back on Saturday. But Friday night, Justin and 1593 01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:36,080 Speaker 2: his and his and his uh his girlfriend that they 1594 01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:39,080 Speaker 2: wanted to go out somewhere, so they were like, hey, 1595 01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:41,280 Speaker 2: would you would you watch Landing? And can he stay 1596 01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:45,800 Speaker 2: overnight at the house. So everybody was like, oh my god, 1597 01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:49,040 Speaker 2: we're leaving Landing with with Pap. Pap. This is never 1598 01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:51,320 Speaker 2: gonna work. You know, the house is you know, the 1599 01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:54,240 Speaker 2: house is going to burn down or whatever. And and 1600 01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:58,000 Speaker 2: Landing came over and you know, we you know, he 1601 01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:01,160 Speaker 2: and I, he and I get along. Just unbelievable. I mean, 1602 01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:03,920 Speaker 2: it was funny. He was he's gotten really into like 1603 01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:08,280 Speaker 2: the the He wasn't a football fan, but he's now 1604 01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:12,120 Speaker 2: become a football fan and he's a he's a Mahones 1605 01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:14,479 Speaker 2: fan and all that. And he we were we were 1606 01:33:14,479 --> 01:33:17,160 Speaker 2: getting ready to go to bed, and uh and we 1607 01:33:17,280 --> 01:33:19,840 Speaker 2: were in bed and he had his iPad out and 1608 01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:21,479 Speaker 2: I had my phone out and I was looking at 1609 01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:23,880 Speaker 2: some stuff and he was googling stuff. And I said, 1610 01:33:25,240 --> 01:33:29,000 Speaker 2: he Landing, what's Patrick Mahones? What's how big is his contract? 1611 01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:31,439 Speaker 2: So he googles and he's telling me with Patrick Mahones 1612 01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:34,000 Speaker 2: And I said, so he must be the highest paid 1613 01:33:34,280 --> 01:33:38,479 Speaker 2: quarterback in the NFL. And he said, without googling anything, 1614 01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:41,080 Speaker 2: he said, no, no, no, that's Joe Burrow. And I go, 1615 01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:43,400 Speaker 2: how do you know that. He goes, well, I know 1616 01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:45,400 Speaker 2: a lot of stuff, and I go, yeah, well, let's 1617 01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:48,840 Speaker 2: see how much you know. And so I googled myself 1618 01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:52,760 Speaker 2: and the stuff that pulls up on me pulled up 1619 01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:56,360 Speaker 2: on me and he and I said, I said, land 1620 01:33:56,439 --> 01:33:59,320 Speaker 2: and look there there there there, I can google myself 1621 01:33:59,360 --> 01:34:02,040 Speaker 2: and look. And he looked at it and he was like, 1622 01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:06,080 Speaker 2: you're in thee You're in the Hall of Fame. And 1623 01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:09,479 Speaker 2: I go, yeah, I'm in the Georgia Music Hall of Fame. 1624 01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:12,400 Speaker 2: You didn't know that, And he goes, no, he goes, 1625 01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:15,800 Speaker 2: but there's pictures of you at the you know, being 1626 01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:19,320 Speaker 2: inducted into the in and look at Mimi's that he 1627 01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:22,560 Speaker 2: calls Cindy Memi. Mimi's there too, is me me in 1628 01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:24,479 Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame? And I go, yeah, that she's 1629 01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:26,400 Speaker 2: in the Hall of Fame too, I go, I go, 1630 01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:31,080 Speaker 2: I go. And he was just he was fascinated by that, 1631 01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:34,719 Speaker 2: because everything that he does, he does you know, he's 1632 01:34:36,040 --> 01:34:40,160 Speaker 2: like I would this is this is how it looks 1633 01:34:40,240 --> 01:34:43,719 Speaker 2: to me. When I was growing up and I started 1634 01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:46,560 Speaker 2: getting albums, I used to like, look at all the 1635 01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:49,000 Speaker 2: liner notes and I used to take everything out and 1636 01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:52,280 Speaker 2: read everything and who was the who is the producer, 1637 01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:54,519 Speaker 2: who was the manager, who was the band? Who was 1638 01:34:55,080 --> 01:34:57,240 Speaker 2: I got everything from all of that kind of stuff. 1639 01:34:57,560 --> 01:35:00,320 Speaker 2: He does all of that stuff, you know online. I 1640 01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:03,240 Speaker 2: mean he googles everything. And my my granddaughter is the 1641 01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:07,400 Speaker 2: same way. It's you know, it's it's it we're not, 1642 01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:10,680 Speaker 2: you know, we're not what. How we grew up is 1643 01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:13,439 Speaker 2: so different from how they're growing up now. But it's 1644 01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:16,640 Speaker 2: wonderful to watch them. I mean, it's they're they're you know, 1645 01:35:17,320 --> 01:35:20,680 Speaker 2: the the and and I I don't want to downplay 1646 01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:26,559 Speaker 2: the kids. We got great kids. They've both had their 1647 01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:29,439 Speaker 2: there they're different issues here and there and all that, 1648 01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:33,880 Speaker 2: but they're great. My daughter was a was went to 1649 01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:36,800 Speaker 2: law school. She was an attorney at Greenberg Trialing. Then 1650 01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:40,040 Speaker 2: she became a judge in Cobb County. And then she 1651 01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:42,760 Speaker 2: got diagnosed with MS, so she had to go on 1652 01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:46,719 Speaker 2: disability and and but she's a stay at home mom 1653 01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:50,040 Speaker 2: and she's she's extremely happy to be a stay at 1654 01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:54,000 Speaker 2: home mom. And then Justin has Justin does I mean, 1655 01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:56,040 Speaker 2: he not only works for me, he's got his own, 1656 01:35:56,520 --> 01:35:59,000 Speaker 2: he's got other stuff that he does on his own. 1657 01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:01,839 Speaker 2: He's got his own like he's got a DJ company 1658 01:36:01,960 --> 01:36:04,840 Speaker 2: that him and a bunch of guys dj different kind 1659 01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:07,559 Speaker 2: of stuff. And they own all their you know, their 1660 01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:10,400 Speaker 2: own equipment and all that stuff. I mean, it's you 1661 01:36:10,479 --> 01:36:14,519 Speaker 2: know it, you know, it's it's great. It's it's great. 1662 01:36:14,600 --> 01:36:18,439 Speaker 2: Having We've always been a fairly tight family. I mean, 1663 01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:22,840 Speaker 2: all the way around, it's been it's been like that. 1664 01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:26,160 Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the guys who gave you 1665 01:36:26,240 --> 01:36:29,880 Speaker 1: the money in Pittsburgh. Whatever happened to that money, lost 1666 01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:33,200 Speaker 1: it Alice Cooper at Tampa Stadium. The show got canceled, 1667 01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:37,400 Speaker 1: lost lost one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars in 1668 01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:46,080 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three or four money, so you can imagine, 1669 01:36:46,200 --> 01:36:50,719 Speaker 1: you know, I was paying Alice and the show didn't sell, 1670 01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:54,200 Speaker 1: and then then a cold front came into Tampa, so 1671 01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:56,800 Speaker 1: we had to cancel the show, and they kept the money, 1672 01:36:57,200 --> 01:36:59,479 Speaker 1: and I had to pay all the bills and pay 1673 01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:03,880 Speaker 1: all that stuff, and was basically tapped out. And and 1674 01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:07,439 Speaker 1: the only the only chance that I had, you know, 1675 01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:08,479 Speaker 1: doing anything, was. 1676 01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:10,760 Speaker 2: The fact that I managed the Outlaws, and that was 1677 01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:13,600 Speaker 2: I picked it up from there and and just you know, 1678 01:37:13,760 --> 01:37:18,120 Speaker 2: ran with it, got got lucky. A bunch what did 1679 01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:22,320 Speaker 2: the people say about you losing their money? It was 1680 01:37:22,560 --> 01:37:25,640 Speaker 2: it was both both of them, you know, it was 1681 01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:28,320 Speaker 2: it was somewhat not play money, but you know it 1682 01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:32,280 Speaker 2: was you know that they they the the one guy, 1683 01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:37,000 Speaker 2: his father had had some businesses that spit off a 1684 01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:39,360 Speaker 2: ton of cash, so they were looking for things to 1685 01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:42,720 Speaker 2: do with cash. And and the other my my partner's 1686 01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:46,080 Speaker 2: father was you know, it was it was a millionaire 1687 01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:48,000 Speaker 2: back then when it was a big deal to be 1688 01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:48,559 Speaker 2: a millionaire. 1689 01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:52,680 Speaker 1: Okay, you got the thing with the Outlaws, but you 1690 01:37:53,439 --> 01:37:55,799 Speaker 1: continue to ultimately promote concerts. 1691 01:37:55,840 --> 01:38:00,400 Speaker 2: How does that happen? Actually? When when the Outlaw? When 1692 01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:05,599 Speaker 2: the Outlaws and I parted ways in nineteen eighty two 1693 01:38:05,880 --> 01:38:11,519 Speaker 2: or eighty three. Around that time period, I had money, 1694 01:38:12,920 --> 01:38:16,120 Speaker 2: and I had relationships with a lot of agents, and 1695 01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:20,600 Speaker 2: I made some offers on first first dates that I 1696 01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:27,640 Speaker 2: got was kiss and I started promoting shows, and you know, 1697 01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:33,880 Speaker 2: I did what I did for a while, changed partnership 1698 01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:38,080 Speaker 2: kind of things a couple of different times. And then 1699 01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:41,200 Speaker 2: and Alex Cooley and I were kind of always like 1700 01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:47,519 Speaker 2: we were making offers on shows, and you know, he'd 1701 01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:50,400 Speaker 2: offer twenty five thousand out offer thirty five thousand hit 1702 01:38:50,479 --> 01:38:53,160 Speaker 2: offer forty five thousand out off for fifty the band 1703 01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:55,479 Speaker 2: was still only worth twenty five if they were worth that. 1704 01:38:56,080 --> 01:38:58,120 Speaker 2: So were we were running it up on each other. 1705 01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:00,559 Speaker 2: And one day we ran into each other and there 1706 01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:03,519 Speaker 2: was this this thing. Alex and I knew each other 1707 01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:06,479 Speaker 2: from the Outlaws days and he promoted shows for me 1708 01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:09,200 Speaker 2: and all that, and and we ran into each other 1709 01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:11,840 Speaker 2: and we kind of just I was like, and it 1710 01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:14,240 Speaker 2: was over like a Motley Crew date and he had 1711 01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:17,800 Speaker 2: made an offer on Motley that was ridiculous for like 1712 01:39:17,880 --> 01:39:20,439 Speaker 2: a Monday night. And I was like, you know you're 1713 01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:24,080 Speaker 2: paying Motley. You know they're getting the bands are making 1714 01:39:24,120 --> 01:39:27,120 Speaker 2: all the money, you know. And Alex said, well, why 1715 01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:29,880 Speaker 2: don't you you know, why don't you come with us? 1716 01:39:29,920 --> 01:39:33,479 Speaker 2: Why don't you come joined Concerts Southern and and we'll 1717 01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:38,600 Speaker 2: join forces together. So I did that in UH in 1718 01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:44,639 Speaker 2: eighty seven eighty six, and that's when this the during 1719 01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:48,160 Speaker 2: that time period, that's when the skinnered thing came up, 1720 01:39:48,240 --> 01:39:50,519 Speaker 2: and that's when I started getting the management thing. 1721 01:39:50,920 --> 01:39:52,200 Speaker 1: So I I I. 1722 01:39:53,680 --> 01:40:01,839 Speaker 2: Got a call from UH from or Ving, and Irving 1723 01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:05,360 Speaker 2: told me that that he wanted me to go look 1724 01:40:05,439 --> 01:40:08,080 Speaker 2: at something. But he wanted me to look at it 1725 01:40:08,320 --> 01:40:11,840 Speaker 2: on my own because because there was going to be 1726 01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:17,479 Speaker 2: He said, you know what STARplex is in in uh Dallas, 1727 01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:22,920 Speaker 2: There's going to be a STARplex in Atlanta, and it's 1728 01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:27,600 Speaker 2: going to be He was Irving was at m c 1729 01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:30,760 Speaker 2: A at the time, so he was the head of 1730 01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:34,280 Speaker 2: m c A, which also had the concert division with Jay, 1731 01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:39,519 Speaker 2: and he said, he said, uh, m c A and 1732 01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:43,000 Speaker 2: Pace are going to build this place, and we want 1733 01:40:43,120 --> 01:40:47,519 Speaker 2: you to come with us. And and so I I 1734 01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:54,320 Speaker 2: flew out to to to Jackson Hole to meet with 1735 01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:58,720 Speaker 2: Gary and to let Gary know that I was that 1736 01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:00,519 Speaker 2: that it looked like I was going to do this, 1737 01:41:01,080 --> 01:41:05,519 Speaker 2: and that that that you know, Uh that that that's 1738 01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:10,240 Speaker 2: how how I was going to leave. Uh Cooley and 1739 01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:14,360 Speaker 2: Conlin and Wallace Barr was a guy that worked in 1740 01:41:14,439 --> 01:41:17,280 Speaker 2: the office with me, and he did all the closed 1741 01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:20,240 Speaker 2: circuit boxing stuff with Bob Aram, so he had kind 1742 01:41:20,280 --> 01:41:22,640 Speaker 2: of like a little bit of a business also. So 1743 01:41:22,840 --> 01:41:24,800 Speaker 2: we made it. We just made a deal with m 1744 01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:27,439 Speaker 2: c A and and Pace to back us and a 1745 01:41:27,479 --> 01:41:32,400 Speaker 2: company that we called Brusco Bar Presents, and we we 1746 01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:37,920 Speaker 2: left Cooley Conlin not on great terms, and we had 1747 01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:45,479 Speaker 2: this Amphitheater and and I had relationships with Doc McGhee 1748 01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:48,200 Speaker 2: and bon Jovi and Motley and all you know and 1749 01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:51,920 Speaker 2: different different other agents and all that stuff. And we 1750 01:41:52,160 --> 01:41:56,840 Speaker 2: just started doing shows and from until ninety one, we 1751 01:41:56,960 --> 01:42:02,560 Speaker 2: were we were killing it. And then the all the 1752 01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:07,000 Speaker 2: business started shifting for how much you could lose on 1753 01:42:07,160 --> 01:42:10,280 Speaker 2: a show, Like you know, you used to be if 1754 01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:13,040 Speaker 2: you lost twenty grand on a show, you know, you 1755 01:42:13,160 --> 01:42:17,080 Speaker 2: were like completely miserable. People were losing, you know, one 1756 01:42:17,160 --> 01:42:19,760 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars on a show. Guarantees were out of 1757 01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:23,560 Speaker 2: control and all that stuff. And I was getting skinnered, 1758 01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:26,559 Speaker 2: was back in ninety one, and I was getting offers 1759 01:42:26,640 --> 01:42:28,360 Speaker 2: for skinnered and everything like that, and I was like, 1760 01:42:28,960 --> 01:42:32,639 Speaker 2: why do I want to be, you know, making these 1761 01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:35,720 Speaker 2: stupid offers and dealing with all this stuff, and you know, 1762 01:42:35,880 --> 01:42:38,720 Speaker 2: going back and forth and trading money on winners and 1763 01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:41,439 Speaker 2: losers and all that. And I just was like, I'm 1764 01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:45,760 Speaker 2: going I'm staying in the I'm getting out of the 1765 01:42:46,120 --> 01:42:51,360 Speaker 2: promoting business. I did a deal with with with with 1766 01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:54,320 Speaker 2: Pace and MCA Concerts for a couple of years. I 1767 01:42:54,439 --> 01:42:57,800 Speaker 2: consulted on Lakewood after it had already been built, and 1768 01:42:58,920 --> 01:43:00,800 Speaker 2: we that was up and run and everything like that. 1769 01:43:01,320 --> 01:43:06,439 Speaker 2: And I stayed out of the promotion business until we 1770 01:43:06,920 --> 01:43:12,080 Speaker 2: were doing the Skinner and Sticks tours that were set 1771 01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:18,200 Speaker 2: for ninety six and Jack Boyle was going to promote 1772 01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:20,559 Speaker 2: both of those tours and he was going to put 1773 01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:24,000 Speaker 2: them through the amphitheaters and all this other stuff. And 1774 01:43:24,640 --> 01:43:26,720 Speaker 2: there was a guy in his office that I was 1775 01:43:26,840 --> 01:43:30,040 Speaker 2: dealing with on the tours that we were getting we 1776 01:43:30,160 --> 01:43:33,360 Speaker 2: were setting up, and his name was Bruce Cap And 1777 01:43:34,080 --> 01:43:37,080 Speaker 2: Jack Boyle called me on the phone and he said, 1778 01:43:38,640 --> 01:43:41,719 Speaker 2: I'm just going to tell you this. I'm getting ready 1779 01:43:41,760 --> 01:43:44,760 Speaker 2: to go down the hall and he goes, I can't 1780 01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:46,880 Speaker 2: put up with Bruce. Bruce and I don't get along. 1781 01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:49,880 Speaker 2: I'm letting Bruce go. And he's going to call you 1782 01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:54,479 Speaker 2: and he said, if you want to us to do 1783 01:43:55,400 --> 01:44:03,160 Speaker 2: the skinnerd and the the uh the Sticks tours, then 1784 01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:07,040 Speaker 2: we'll we'll do them. But if you don't, you know, 1785 01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:09,800 Speaker 2: and you want to do something with Bruce, you guys 1786 01:44:09,840 --> 01:44:12,479 Speaker 2: can you guys can take that over. We'll we'll we'll 1787 01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:16,840 Speaker 2: sign it all over to you. So we we we 1788 01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:20,439 Speaker 2: had Bruce called me. We had a mutual friend that 1789 01:44:20,560 --> 01:44:24,360 Speaker 2: Dennis D. Young had that did theater stuff that had 1790 01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:29,360 Speaker 2: bugged Dennis about about doing U Stick States and I 1791 01:44:30,280 --> 01:44:34,000 Speaker 2: His name was wash Lee Marshall. He was he was 1792 01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:38,160 Speaker 2: really in the play business. And we called Lee Marshall 1793 01:44:38,320 --> 01:44:42,479 Speaker 2: and a guy named Joe marsh and like the following Monday, 1794 01:44:42,600 --> 01:44:45,639 Speaker 2: we had a meeting with them and they said, we'll 1795 01:44:45,680 --> 01:44:48,080 Speaker 2: back both of those tours. We'll put all the money up, 1796 01:44:48,640 --> 01:44:51,120 Speaker 2: We'll back both of those tours. And we started doing 1797 01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:56,680 Speaker 2: not individual cities, but we started doing national tours and 1798 01:44:56,760 --> 01:44:59,479 Speaker 2: we did this this the Skinner Tour and the Sticks 1799 01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:04,519 Speaker 2: Tour and then and then then when it came then 1800 01:45:05,120 --> 01:45:08,439 Speaker 2: Irving did they had they did the Big Eagles Tour. 1801 01:45:09,080 --> 01:45:13,280 Speaker 2: Hell Freeze is over and Joe or Lee called me 1802 01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:17,639 Speaker 2: on the phone one day with Louis and they were like, hey, 1803 01:45:18,600 --> 01:45:23,600 Speaker 2: we want to make an offer to Fleetwood Mac. And 1804 01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:26,960 Speaker 2: it's a lot of money. Back then, it was four 1805 01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:30,080 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars a show. And they said, you know, 1806 01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:32,120 Speaker 2: we're going to make an offer on the whole tour. 1807 01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:36,679 Speaker 2: So we're gonna are you are you are you in? Yeah? Okay, yeah, 1808 01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:39,080 Speaker 2: we're doing it. We got the we we got the 1809 01:45:39,120 --> 01:45:41,599 Speaker 2: Fleetwood Mac tour. We did we did the Flate Fleetwood 1810 01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:45,200 Speaker 2: Mac First Reunion Tour. We sold some shows to some promoters, 1811 01:45:45,400 --> 01:45:47,320 Speaker 2: but we promoted most of the shows all the way 1812 01:45:47,320 --> 01:45:52,600 Speaker 2: across across the board. Then Bruce started talking with s 1813 01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:55,720 Speaker 2: f X and he got an offer from SFX and 1814 01:45:55,960 --> 01:46:00,360 Speaker 2: didn't tell us anything about it. Left like in the 1815 01:46:00,439 --> 01:46:03,920 Speaker 2: middle of the night, went to SFX, started SFX touring 1816 01:46:04,040 --> 01:46:08,240 Speaker 2: with with with Division with with with Sullivan Sullivan and 1817 01:46:09,760 --> 01:46:13,920 Speaker 2: and basically started telling everybody that that we weren't doing 1818 01:46:14,040 --> 01:46:18,439 Speaker 2: tours anymore. And somebody called me up, a friend of mine, 1819 01:46:19,040 --> 01:46:22,200 Speaker 2: uh called me up on the phone and said, Hey, 1820 01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:24,679 Speaker 2: you guys are doing tours. I got a tour that's 1821 01:46:24,720 --> 01:46:26,600 Speaker 2: going out. I don't know if you'd be interested in it, 1822 01:46:27,000 --> 01:46:30,240 Speaker 2: but it's Janet Jackson. And it was the Janet Jackson 1823 01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:33,880 Speaker 2: Velvet Rope Tour. And Bruce had just left, and we 1824 01:46:34,040 --> 01:46:36,880 Speaker 2: made a deal to do the Janet Jackson Velvet Rope 1825 01:46:36,920 --> 01:46:41,800 Speaker 2: Tour fifty six states across the United States, and you know, 1826 01:46:42,479 --> 01:46:45,160 Speaker 2: you know, two days at the Garden with HBO special 1827 01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:49,920 Speaker 2: and did it with Roger Davies and and then after that, 1828 01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:54,960 Speaker 2: I basically I didn't want to keep on promoting against 1829 01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:59,000 Speaker 2: and and that I felt like that was the big time. 1830 01:46:59,080 --> 01:47:03,840 Speaker 2: And and s FX came courting Magic to buy Magic productions, 1831 01:47:04,320 --> 01:47:08,680 Speaker 2: and I was like, get me paid and and and 1832 01:47:09,240 --> 01:47:12,240 Speaker 2: let's move on. And I'm going, I'm gonna, I'm I'm 1833 01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:15,240 Speaker 2: just doing I was doing Skinnered and sticks at the 1834 01:47:15,280 --> 01:47:18,560 Speaker 2: same time, and I was like, I'm I'm I'm not 1835 01:47:18,680 --> 01:47:21,519 Speaker 2: promoting anymore, and I haven't. I haven't promoted since then. 1836 01:47:21,560 --> 01:47:25,200 Speaker 2: I had. The last real big thing that that I 1837 01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:28,439 Speaker 2: did as a promoter was the Janet Jackson Velvet Rope 1838 01:47:28,479 --> 01:47:31,040 Speaker 2: Tour and it was phenomenal, and you know, and that 1839 01:47:31,200 --> 01:47:33,080 Speaker 2: was that was a good way for me to end 1840 01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:35,920 Speaker 2: at that end of my career. But you got to 1841 01:47:36,000 --> 01:47:39,720 Speaker 2: check from sf X, the Magic got a check and 1842 01:47:39,800 --> 01:47:44,040 Speaker 2: I got paid from them, right, Okay, so today the 1843 01:47:44,200 --> 01:47:47,920 Speaker 2: landscape is different. You've been on both sides of the fence. 1844 01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:52,200 Speaker 2: What are the keys to negotiating a deal and what 1845 01:47:52,360 --> 01:47:54,760 Speaker 2: are the keys to make sure that you get all 1846 01:47:54,840 --> 01:48:00,599 Speaker 2: the money? I'm I'm I'm not an all the money 1847 01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:07,040 Speaker 2: kind of promote A manager. I like, I like for 1848 01:48:07,240 --> 01:48:10,800 Speaker 2: everybody to try and unless the artist, just the artist 1849 01:48:10,880 --> 01:48:13,280 Speaker 2: wants all the money. But if the artist is is 1850 01:48:13,880 --> 01:48:16,920 Speaker 2: fair in the negotiations and stuff like that. I I 1851 01:48:17,000 --> 01:48:20,920 Speaker 2: don't squeeze everything out of out of everybody. I get 1852 01:48:20,960 --> 01:48:24,160 Speaker 2: the best deals that that the artists should get. And 1853 01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:26,360 Speaker 2: and I don't beat everybody up. 1854 01:48:26,439 --> 01:48:27,519 Speaker 1: I you know, I I. 1855 01:48:29,240 --> 01:48:32,400 Speaker 2: That's that's and I actually I don't know that that's 1856 01:48:32,520 --> 01:48:35,600 Speaker 2: corn style either. I mean, there are artists that you 1857 01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:37,960 Speaker 2: represent that they you know, they want you to get 1858 01:48:38,040 --> 01:48:40,920 Speaker 2: everything out of everybody. I mean that that's it's it's 1859 01:48:41,080 --> 01:48:44,240 Speaker 2: artists driven. I mean, you know it. That's that's kind 1860 01:48:44,320 --> 01:48:47,040 Speaker 2: that's kind of what sets the tone for for for 1861 01:48:47,160 --> 01:48:49,360 Speaker 2: how you're going to handle it. And quite frankly, the 1862 01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:52,240 Speaker 2: promoters or the buyers or anything like that, they all 1863 01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:54,160 Speaker 2: know what the deal is. They know who they got 1864 01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:56,920 Speaker 2: to overpay and who they who they can make fair 1865 01:48:57,000 --> 01:48:59,720 Speaker 2: deals with and and listen, a fair deal maybe that 1866 01:49:00,439 --> 01:49:03,080 Speaker 2: you know, the promoters, you know, the promoters still making 1867 01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:06,360 Speaker 2: very little profit. But but if they're if they're good 1868 01:49:06,400 --> 01:49:10,840 Speaker 2: with it, then it's then it's good. You know, Okay, 1869 01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:17,040 Speaker 2: but if you squeeze every penny out, what's the downside 1870 01:49:17,080 --> 01:49:22,280 Speaker 2: of them? The downside of it is is that that 1871 01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:26,439 Speaker 2: you do that enough times and nobody makes any money. 1872 01:49:27,880 --> 01:49:30,639 Speaker 2: You know, you have, you have very little options left 1873 01:49:30,680 --> 01:49:31,519 Speaker 2: of who you work for. 1874 01:49:33,280 --> 01:49:36,240 Speaker 1: So speaking of who you work for, you know Live 1875 01:49:36,400 --> 01:49:40,160 Speaker 1: Nation is the behemoth, then there's a g there are 1876 01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:43,600 Speaker 1: still some independence. Who do you like to work with? 1877 01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:45,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't make any difference. 1878 01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:47,479 Speaker 2: I work with I work with all of them. I've 1879 01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:50,400 Speaker 2: got to I've got tours out this summer that we're 1880 01:49:50,479 --> 01:49:55,240 Speaker 2: involved with that are Live Nation, Hearts a an aeg 1881 01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:59,760 Speaker 2: toor I do individual dates all the time with Out 1882 01:50:00,360 --> 01:50:06,040 Speaker 2: and Pepper and Mammoth, we I we, I work with. 1883 01:50:06,200 --> 01:50:09,120 Speaker 2: I work with just about everybody. It's really a situation 1884 01:50:09,439 --> 01:50:14,920 Speaker 2: kind of thing. Well, let's ask, you know, before the 1885 01:50:15,040 --> 01:50:19,519 Speaker 2: roll up ninety six and now, what's the difference in 1886 01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:25,640 Speaker 2: making deals for shows there? There's there's more money. I mean, 1887 01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:28,960 Speaker 2: there's there's definitely more money. And it's I think, I 1888 01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:33,920 Speaker 2: think in our eyes from our side, it's more transparent, 1889 01:50:35,080 --> 01:50:39,639 Speaker 2: whether it's been transparent to us or we found out 1890 01:50:39,720 --> 01:50:42,240 Speaker 2: how it's I mean, listen, I was I was a 1891 01:50:43,160 --> 01:50:47,599 Speaker 2: I I was a consultant on an amphitheater that opened 1892 01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:50,800 Speaker 2: in Atlanta. You know, I've been on the promoter side, 1893 01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:54,120 Speaker 2: so I know I know where the money's at. You know, 1894 01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:57,280 Speaker 2: you know and you know, so it's you know, you 1895 01:50:57,840 --> 01:51:00,519 Speaker 2: make that you make the deals based on what you know, 1896 01:51:01,720 --> 01:51:03,640 Speaker 2: you know and and and what the risk is. I 1897 01:51:03,720 --> 01:51:05,360 Speaker 2: mean that's you know that that that's. 1898 01:51:05,200 --> 01:51:09,599 Speaker 1: What it is. Okay, So the money's bigger. Now any 1899 01:51:09,680 --> 01:51:10,480 Speaker 1: other differences. 1900 01:51:12,840 --> 01:51:17,880 Speaker 2: I think that I I think that the larger promoters, 1901 01:51:18,840 --> 01:51:23,560 Speaker 2: the the Live Nations and the aeg s have have 1902 01:51:24,520 --> 01:51:30,840 Speaker 2: more the their their marketing reach is bigger because they're 1903 01:51:30,880 --> 01:51:33,640 Speaker 2: doing more shows and they're more involved in you know, 1904 01:51:34,479 --> 01:51:40,519 Speaker 2: major market kind of stuff. That's where they live. So 1905 01:51:41,040 --> 01:51:45,439 Speaker 2: so I think that you know, they they there, they 1906 01:51:45,520 --> 01:51:49,599 Speaker 2: can roll things out on a national level way bigger 1907 01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:55,040 Speaker 2: that I think that the independent guys are probably better 1908 01:51:55,160 --> 01:51:59,080 Speaker 2: at rolling up their sleeves and doing the theater stuff 1909 01:51:59,240 --> 01:52:01,760 Speaker 2: or the arena stuff and secondaries and all that kind 1910 01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:05,240 Speaker 2: of stuff, because that's that's where a lot of their 1911 01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:10,280 Speaker 2: business is because they're they're not getting major shows in 1912 01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:14,479 Speaker 2: Atlanta because either AEG or Live Nations getting it from 1913 01:52:14,560 --> 01:52:18,280 Speaker 2: a tour or from just from you know, the offers 1914 01:52:18,320 --> 01:52:22,479 Speaker 2: that they make. So do you have a take on 1915 01:52:22,760 --> 01:52:28,840 Speaker 2: ticket fees? Do I have a take on it? I 1916 01:52:29,200 --> 01:52:32,760 Speaker 2: I think just like everybody else does. I think that 1917 01:52:32,880 --> 01:52:38,439 Speaker 2: ticket fees are they're they're not that last article that 1918 01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:42,439 Speaker 2: you had. Ticket fees are not really set by the promoter. 1919 01:52:42,920 --> 01:52:45,560 Speaker 2: I mean the ticket fees are are a part of 1920 01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:48,840 Speaker 2: I would I would not have any problem whatsoever if 1921 01:52:48,920 --> 01:52:53,599 Speaker 2: it was one price ticket and everybody everybody saw one 1922 01:52:53,680 --> 01:52:56,599 Speaker 2: price ticket, because quite frankly, when I buy, when I buy, 1923 01:52:57,200 --> 01:53:00,240 Speaker 2: if I buy a ticket and I buy tickets, I 1924 01:53:00,320 --> 01:53:03,439 Speaker 2: would rather see the tickets be. You know, you're paying 1925 01:53:03,920 --> 01:53:07,040 Speaker 2: seventy five dollars and you know that when you're pushing 1926 01:53:07,080 --> 01:53:10,320 Speaker 2: the button it doesn't go okay. Now here's your checkout stuff, 1927 01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:12,040 Speaker 2: and you got to pay for all this other shit 1928 01:53:12,120 --> 01:53:14,840 Speaker 2: on top of it. So you would have your acts 1929 01:53:14,920 --> 01:53:18,880 Speaker 2: good all in pricing, I would I I would, Yeah, 1930 01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:20,799 Speaker 2: it would be, it would be, it would be easier, 1931 01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:24,400 Speaker 2: it would be, it would be it would be transparent 1932 01:53:24,479 --> 01:53:29,400 Speaker 2: to everybody what the what they're paying for. I don't 1933 01:53:29,439 --> 01:53:31,080 Speaker 2: think that for what it is, I don't think that 1934 01:53:31,479 --> 01:53:34,680 Speaker 2: the ticket master and all those kind of things are exorbitant. 1935 01:53:34,720 --> 01:53:38,600 Speaker 2: Nobody gives Nobody gives them credit for the business that 1936 01:53:38,760 --> 01:53:41,920 Speaker 2: and what it costs them to be in business, you know, 1937 01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:47,439 Speaker 2: separate from Live Nation. So what's the best show you 1938 01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:55,880 Speaker 2: ever saw. What's the best show I ever saw? Wow? 1939 01:53:58,479 --> 01:54:02,759 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I've I've seen this. The Stones 1940 01:54:02,880 --> 01:54:10,680 Speaker 2: are probably my favorite band the I saw, but I 1941 01:54:10,760 --> 01:54:15,200 Speaker 2: see I saw everybody and kind of like the Heyday. 1942 01:54:15,960 --> 01:54:19,639 Speaker 2: So I saw Zeppelin a bunch. I probably saw Zeppelin 1943 01:54:19,680 --> 01:54:23,240 Speaker 2: fifteen times. I saw The Who at least ten fifteen times. 1944 01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:26,679 Speaker 2: I mean I saw bands when they were really, really 1945 01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:33,520 Speaker 2: in their prime. I mean the original Skinnered lineup. There 1946 01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:36,240 Speaker 2: were nights that I saw them and the Outlaws play 1947 01:54:36,280 --> 01:54:38,600 Speaker 2: together that that I would go like, these guys are 1948 01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:42,280 Speaker 2: all on another planet. I mean it, you know, like Skinnered, 1949 01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:45,920 Speaker 2: Skinnered in the Outlaws at the at Winterland was was 1950 01:54:46,120 --> 01:54:50,920 Speaker 2: just like, you know, total magic, the whole show. So 1951 01:54:51,240 --> 01:54:54,880 Speaker 2: I don't know that I have, you know, one one 1952 01:54:55,120 --> 01:54:57,880 Speaker 2: show that I look at and go like wow, you know, 1953 01:54:58,000 --> 01:55:02,160 Speaker 2: and and you know, my you know, the one thing 1954 01:55:02,200 --> 01:55:05,000 Speaker 2: about the lineup that I've got that's my artist. I mean, 1955 01:55:05,400 --> 01:55:09,080 Speaker 2: they're they're they they are all pretty great at their craft. 1956 01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:11,600 Speaker 2: I mean they're you know, they're they're they all do 1957 01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:15,920 Speaker 2: really really good shows. That's part of what attracts me 1958 01:55:16,040 --> 01:55:19,280 Speaker 2: to an artist, because that's what I've always went by. 1959 01:55:19,640 --> 01:55:22,680 Speaker 2: How good somebody is on stage, Would I pay to 1960 01:55:22,760 --> 01:55:25,480 Speaker 2: see that show? Okay? 1961 01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:29,240 Speaker 1: One or two personal highlights in your business career? What 1962 01:55:29,320 --> 01:55:30,160 Speaker 1: are you most proud of? 1963 01:55:32,800 --> 01:55:37,000 Speaker 2: Well, I'm I'm I'm proud of the I'm proud of 1964 01:55:37,160 --> 01:55:39,120 Speaker 2: everything that I did with the Outlaws. I'm proud of 1965 01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:45,040 Speaker 2: the putting skinner back together. I'm proud of putting sticks 1966 01:55:45,120 --> 01:55:48,840 Speaker 2: back together and continuing on as long as that we've 1967 01:55:49,080 --> 01:55:54,760 Speaker 2: continued on, and those those benefits that I told you 1968 01:55:54,880 --> 01:55:59,160 Speaker 2: about that we did for nine to eleven, the two 1969 01:55:59,320 --> 01:56:05,440 Speaker 2: nights we put those shows together in like the shows 1970 01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:09,840 Speaker 2: were nine to eleven to October like eighteen, nineteen twenty. 1971 01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:13,320 Speaker 2: Somewhere in that time period, we came up with the 1972 01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:16,120 Speaker 2: Tommy Shaw and Kevin Cronin came up with the idea. 1973 01:56:16,560 --> 01:56:19,920 Speaker 2: We came up with the idea. We got all these 1974 01:56:20,040 --> 01:56:23,160 Speaker 2: bands to come in and play. Nobody made any money. 1975 01:56:23,240 --> 01:56:25,560 Speaker 2: We gave all the money to the Port Authority Police 1976 01:56:25,840 --> 01:56:30,280 Speaker 2: who basically we were the ones that were guarding the 1977 01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:34,120 Speaker 2: World Trade Center. But when the money started getting coming 1978 01:56:34,160 --> 01:56:36,880 Speaker 2: in and money was going everywhere, it was going to 1979 01:56:37,040 --> 01:56:42,360 Speaker 2: the New York Police Department or the New York Fire 1980 01:56:42,400 --> 01:56:45,200 Speaker 2: Department all that and the Port Authority police was only 1981 01:56:45,400 --> 01:56:49,440 Speaker 2: like a total of like eight hundred people that worked 1982 01:56:49,760 --> 01:56:53,280 Speaker 2: for you know, there were forty thousand firemen, and yeah 1983 01:56:53,320 --> 01:56:57,720 Speaker 2: they lost you know, thou whatever the number was, these guys. 1984 01:56:57,800 --> 01:57:01,080 Speaker 2: Out of eight hundred people, they lost thirty nine people. 1985 01:57:01,240 --> 01:57:04,320 Speaker 2: They knew everybody that died in that building. 1986 01:57:04,600 --> 01:57:04,720 Speaker 1: You know. 1987 01:57:04,760 --> 01:57:07,040 Speaker 2: It wasn't like, oh that guy's from another precinct or 1988 01:57:07,120 --> 01:57:09,400 Speaker 2: any of that ship. These guys all knew each other. 1989 01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:11,800 Speaker 2: And there was a certain bond that went on with 1990 01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:14,600 Speaker 2: us doing those shows. And they sent a couple of 1991 01:57:14,680 --> 01:57:17,880 Speaker 2: guys down from the Poort Authority that came to both shows, 1992 01:57:18,000 --> 01:57:22,640 Speaker 2: and that those shows were we were were just unbelievable. 1993 01:57:22,680 --> 01:57:26,200 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I did a Alex and Peter 1994 01:57:26,320 --> 01:57:29,240 Speaker 2: and I did an Amnesty International show with Bill Graham 1995 01:57:29,680 --> 01:57:33,280 Speaker 2: the one year on my birthday at the Omni in Atlanta, 1996 01:57:33,320 --> 01:57:38,000 Speaker 2: and the show was like staying you two all these 1997 01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:41,320 Speaker 2: people and and it ended up being the police instead 1998 01:57:41,320 --> 01:57:44,560 Speaker 2: of instead of instead of stinging, and it was that 1999 01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:48,280 Speaker 2: that that was that was magic. And I mean, I've 2000 01:57:48,360 --> 01:57:52,720 Speaker 2: got so many magic moments in my career that that 2001 01:57:53,080 --> 01:57:57,240 Speaker 2: I that I you know, I don't that whether I 2002 01:57:57,400 --> 01:58:00,400 Speaker 2: deserved it or didn't deserve it. I I've gotten way 2003 01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:03,400 Speaker 2: way more than my share. I've gotten way more than 2004 01:58:03,440 --> 01:58:06,800 Speaker 2: my share. Explain it lamp to in Georgia. To me, 2005 01:58:10,200 --> 01:58:13,080 Speaker 2: Atlanta's just a it's a it's a it's a great 2006 01:58:13,200 --> 01:58:18,600 Speaker 2: place to live. Uh uh. I'm not going to get 2007 01:58:18,640 --> 01:58:22,320 Speaker 2: into the politics and everything like that, but I'm where 2008 01:58:22,520 --> 01:58:25,400 Speaker 2: I live, in the neighborhood that I live in. I'm 2009 01:58:25,480 --> 01:58:29,160 Speaker 2: not putting any signs up for for who I favor 2010 01:58:29,280 --> 01:58:34,360 Speaker 2: in any election, but I live in a great I 2011 01:58:34,440 --> 01:58:38,200 Speaker 2: live in a great place. I'm I'm ten minutes from 2012 01:58:38,280 --> 01:58:47,280 Speaker 2: my office. I I can pretty much call and I 2013 01:58:48,400 --> 01:58:51,800 Speaker 2: mostly insist on buying tickets to shows, even if I 2014 01:58:51,920 --> 01:58:54,520 Speaker 2: have relationships with people and stuff like that, because I 2015 01:58:54,680 --> 01:58:57,160 Speaker 2: don't like comps. I don't. I don't like them from 2016 01:58:57,240 --> 01:58:59,120 Speaker 2: my end, and I don't like to be a guy 2017 01:58:59,200 --> 01:59:00,960 Speaker 2: that's calling and going CA, can you give me tickets 2018 01:59:01,000 --> 01:59:03,680 Speaker 2: to the show? And sometimes people go like, no, I'm 2019 01:59:03,720 --> 01:59:07,120 Speaker 2: not you know, I'm not You're not getting I'm not 2020 01:59:07,360 --> 01:59:09,240 Speaker 2: selling you a ticket. I'm giving you a ticket. But 2021 01:59:09,840 --> 01:59:11,920 Speaker 2: I can go to any show that I want to 2022 01:59:12,000 --> 01:59:16,360 Speaker 2: go to, and I've had I've had options over my 2023 01:59:16,520 --> 01:59:19,320 Speaker 2: career early options to like go to New York for 2024 01:59:19,440 --> 01:59:22,600 Speaker 2: something and go to l a couple of times. I've 2025 01:59:23,080 --> 01:59:26,680 Speaker 2: never It's never been in my head that I'm going 2026 01:59:26,760 --> 01:59:31,760 Speaker 2: to get out of Atlanta. You know. I'm I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 2027 01:59:31,880 --> 01:59:34,440 Speaker 2: and I'm in the Georgia Music Hall of Fame. I'm 2028 01:59:34,480 --> 01:59:37,160 Speaker 2: in the Georgia Music Hall of Fame. But my band 2029 01:59:37,720 --> 01:59:41,080 Speaker 2: has the biggest song for the team that I supported 2030 01:59:41,120 --> 01:59:44,160 Speaker 2: since I was a young kid, which is Renegade in 2031 01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:47,640 Speaker 2: the Pittsburgh Steelers. I mean, you can't make this ship up. 2032 01:59:48,520 --> 01:59:51,360 Speaker 2: I mean, it's you know, it's it's you know, it's 2033 01:59:51,480 --> 01:59:54,760 Speaker 2: it's a it's it's not bad. And a lot of 2034 01:59:54,800 --> 01:59:58,840 Speaker 2: people would probably change, you know, trade places with me. 2035 02:00:00,160 --> 02:00:03,480 Speaker 2: And I like where I am and and pretty much 2036 02:00:03,520 --> 02:00:09,080 Speaker 2: I like who I am? And where's your money? Where's 2037 02:00:09,120 --> 02:00:11,440 Speaker 2: my money? It's in What do you do with it? 2038 02:00:11,520 --> 02:00:13,960 Speaker 2: You obviously made a good check of change. Is it 2039 02:00:14,080 --> 02:00:16,640 Speaker 2: in stocks? Is in real estate? Do you invest them? 2040 02:00:16,920 --> 02:00:19,280 Speaker 2: It's it's it's in all of you. It's in all 2041 02:00:19,320 --> 02:00:23,160 Speaker 2: of the above. Yeah. Yeah, I got a good I 2042 02:00:23,200 --> 02:00:25,560 Speaker 2: have a good stock guy that's done very well for me. 2043 02:00:27,440 --> 02:00:32,320 Speaker 2: I we own real estate, and I got money in 2044 02:00:32,360 --> 02:00:33,880 Speaker 2: the bank, and. 2045 02:00:33,960 --> 02:00:36,200 Speaker 1: Do you pay attention to that or you more leave 2046 02:00:36,240 --> 02:00:38,680 Speaker 1: it to the advisors and you're being a management guy 2047 02:00:38,840 --> 02:00:39,280 Speaker 1: all day. 2048 02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:46,440 Speaker 2: That's the last thing I think about. And and quite frankly, 2049 02:00:46,640 --> 02:00:51,680 Speaker 2: quite frankly, red Lights made it that that you know everything. 2050 02:00:52,040 --> 02:00:55,320 Speaker 2: Everything for me as far as business is concerned, flows 2051 02:00:55,400 --> 02:00:57,720 Speaker 2: with you know, with with with with with how we 2052 02:00:57,880 --> 02:01:02,520 Speaker 2: do it. And Corn and Corn and I since we 2053 02:01:02,920 --> 02:01:06,080 Speaker 2: since since I signed on, we've never had a discussion 2054 02:01:06,280 --> 02:01:08,800 Speaker 2: about what I make or how I make, or what 2055 02:01:08,920 --> 02:01:12,120 Speaker 2: he makes with me or anything like that. Well, we 2056 02:01:12,360 --> 02:01:16,320 Speaker 2: we have a we have a financial guy, and I 2057 02:01:16,440 --> 02:01:21,840 Speaker 2: talked to him maybe four times a year. That's not that, 2058 02:01:22,040 --> 02:01:25,200 Speaker 2: that's not that's not what drives me. It's really not 2059 02:01:25,320 --> 02:01:25,880 Speaker 2: what drives me. 2060 02:01:26,480 --> 02:01:29,760 Speaker 1: Okay, you make a living dealing with artists. Give us 2061 02:01:29,840 --> 02:01:32,720 Speaker 1: some insight into the mentality of artists. 2062 02:01:36,440 --> 02:01:41,320 Speaker 2: Artists are or exactly that they're artists, and they are 2063 02:01:41,960 --> 02:01:46,160 Speaker 2: concerned usually about themselves and their careers. And you know, 2064 02:01:46,680 --> 02:01:51,920 Speaker 2: to to the the more that they're focused on reality, 2065 02:01:52,240 --> 02:01:56,080 Speaker 2: the better that it is. But some of them, especially 2066 02:01:56,600 --> 02:01:58,800 Speaker 2: artists that that that have been around for as long 2067 02:01:58,880 --> 02:02:02,960 Speaker 2: as I know, some of my artists or other artists 2068 02:02:03,000 --> 02:02:06,200 Speaker 2: that red Light has I mean, you know, they've seen 2069 02:02:06,240 --> 02:02:09,000 Speaker 2: it all, they've done it all. They've had good times, 2070 02:02:09,000 --> 02:02:12,120 Speaker 2: they've had bad times, they've had they've had all of it. 2071 02:02:13,240 --> 02:02:17,360 Speaker 2: And I like to let the artists. I don't like 2072 02:02:17,480 --> 02:02:22,200 Speaker 2: to to get too much into what they're doing when 2073 02:02:22,240 --> 02:02:26,560 Speaker 2: they're creative. I like to help them in anything that 2074 02:02:26,680 --> 02:02:29,640 Speaker 2: they need help with. But I don't. I don't A 2075 02:02:29,800 --> 02:02:32,040 Speaker 2: and R stuff. I don't, you know, I don't. I 2076 02:02:32,120 --> 02:02:34,720 Speaker 2: don't do all of that. I give suggestions, but I 2077 02:02:34,920 --> 02:02:37,640 Speaker 2: usually don't give suggestions on anything that has to do 2078 02:02:37,760 --> 02:02:39,960 Speaker 2: with music or if they're going to do a video, 2079 02:02:40,040 --> 02:02:41,920 Speaker 2: if they're going to do you know, what the set 2080 02:02:42,000 --> 02:02:44,520 Speaker 2: design is, and stuff like that. I'll go like, hey, 2081 02:02:44,560 --> 02:02:47,840 Speaker 2: you know, we're spending too much money. But but that's 2082 02:02:47,920 --> 02:02:49,920 Speaker 2: That's about the only thing that I'll say. And that's 2083 02:02:50,000 --> 02:02:52,120 Speaker 2: not my money that I'm worried about, it's their money. 2084 02:02:53,160 --> 02:02:55,520 Speaker 2: I'm much more protective of my artist money than I 2085 02:02:55,600 --> 02:03:00,520 Speaker 2: am of mine. And do you have paper with your artists? Never? 2086 02:03:02,120 --> 02:03:05,680 Speaker 2: And do you charge every artist the same percentage? Never? 2087 02:03:07,160 --> 02:03:09,760 Speaker 1: What would vary the percentage you would. 2088 02:03:09,680 --> 02:03:13,840 Speaker 2: Charge my deal with the artist? I mean, but why 2089 02:03:13,880 --> 02:03:14,600 Speaker 2: would the deal be? 2090 02:03:14,840 --> 02:03:16,560 Speaker 1: You don't have to mention any names. Why would the 2091 02:03:16,600 --> 02:03:19,440 Speaker 1: deal be different with one artist and another artist. 2092 02:03:19,800 --> 02:03:24,360 Speaker 2: Because the circumstances are always are always different. I mean, listen, 2093 02:03:24,440 --> 02:03:30,880 Speaker 2: I don't go below a certain threshold. But but I 2094 02:03:31,120 --> 02:03:35,160 Speaker 2: don't think in anything everybody's created, everybody's treated equally. I mean, 2095 02:03:35,600 --> 02:03:38,080 Speaker 2: I don't think there's there's any business that everybody's treated, 2096 02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:43,200 Speaker 2: you know, treated equally. You know, it's it's all individual stuff, 2097 02:03:44,720 --> 02:03:48,960 Speaker 2: you know, And I I don't think. I don't think myself, 2098 02:03:49,120 --> 02:03:53,000 Speaker 2: nor do I know of red light where where commission 2099 02:03:53,080 --> 02:03:57,000 Speaker 2: structure is a driving kind of thing. That is the 2100 02:03:57,040 --> 02:04:00,560 Speaker 2: difference between whether you've got a relationship with an artists 2101 02:04:00,680 --> 02:04:04,560 Speaker 2: or not. I mean, you know, it'll all it will 2102 02:04:04,720 --> 02:04:07,080 Speaker 2: be reflected in what their bottom line is. If they're 2103 02:04:07,160 --> 02:04:11,160 Speaker 2: not making money, then you know, you know most of 2104 02:04:11,280 --> 02:04:15,040 Speaker 2: them won't be happy. There are some artists that are 2105 02:04:15,480 --> 02:04:18,120 Speaker 2: that that you know that that also you know, are 2106 02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:19,120 Speaker 2: not driven by money. 2107 02:04:20,840 --> 02:04:24,040 Speaker 1: And since you've been negotiating your whole life, what's the 2108 02:04:24,160 --> 02:04:25,200 Speaker 1: key to negotiation? 2109 02:04:27,680 --> 02:04:31,920 Speaker 2: My key is that it's fair to both sides. That's 2110 02:04:32,080 --> 02:04:36,040 Speaker 2: not always everybody else's everybody else's notion. But I like 2111 02:04:36,280 --> 02:04:39,280 Speaker 2: I like for deals in anything, I like for deals. 2112 02:04:39,640 --> 02:04:42,240 Speaker 2: I like for deals, you know, in my in my 2113 02:04:42,600 --> 02:04:45,480 Speaker 2: in my in my private life. I like for deals 2114 02:04:45,560 --> 02:04:49,920 Speaker 2: to be fair, you know between everybody. You know, my wife, 2115 02:04:50,000 --> 02:04:52,840 Speaker 2: my wife is you know, we we have to we 2116 02:04:53,200 --> 02:04:56,720 Speaker 2: have to be on equal ground or you know, where 2117 02:04:56,760 --> 02:04:58,200 Speaker 2: there's there's there's problems. 2118 02:04:59,640 --> 02:05:03,640 Speaker 1: Okay, you've been married twice. To what degree did this 2119 02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:07,960 Speaker 1: business contribute to the death of those marriages? And how 2120 02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:10,200 Speaker 1: hard is it to have a relationship and be in 2121 02:05:10,280 --> 02:05:10,960 Speaker 1: this business. 2122 02:05:15,240 --> 02:05:22,400 Speaker 2: Probably I had a period of time was like a 2123 02:05:22,480 --> 02:05:24,440 Speaker 2: lot of people with drugs and alcohol and all that 2124 02:05:24,560 --> 02:05:29,760 Speaker 2: stuff which were driven by the business. So my first 2125 02:05:29,800 --> 02:05:33,000 Speaker 2: marriage probably was due to that. My second marriage wasn't. 2126 02:05:33,880 --> 02:05:37,520 Speaker 2: My third marriage was probably Our first marriage to Cindy 2127 02:05:37,680 --> 02:05:43,040 Speaker 2: was probably partially the drug and alcohol thing and partially 2128 02:05:43,160 --> 02:05:51,480 Speaker 2: my ego. And the fourth marriage is my last. 2129 02:05:53,240 --> 02:05:56,600 Speaker 1: So if you had your drugs and alcohol period, how 2130 02:05:56,680 --> 02:05:57,920 Speaker 1: did you get past that. 2131 02:06:02,000 --> 02:06:06,320 Speaker 2: I didn't go to rehab. I just I just stopped. 2132 02:06:07,160 --> 02:06:10,160 Speaker 2: I knew I realized that it was I realized that 2133 02:06:10,280 --> 02:06:14,920 Speaker 2: it was was ruining things for me. And even though 2134 02:06:15,160 --> 02:06:17,960 Speaker 2: I thought to myself, I didn't know that I could 2135 02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:23,600 Speaker 2: stop doing cocaine, when I did, I just stopped. I 2136 02:06:23,840 --> 02:06:26,720 Speaker 2: just That's what I did. I went like, I'm not 2137 02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:32,800 Speaker 2: doing this anymore, and I haven't and drinking. I stopped 2138 02:06:32,880 --> 02:06:36,520 Speaker 2: drinking and then I slowly started drinking again. But I've 2139 02:06:36,680 --> 02:06:41,400 Speaker 2: never drank like I did, you know. I mean, there 2140 02:06:41,520 --> 02:06:44,040 Speaker 2: was a rider that the Outlaws had, that that had 2141 02:06:44,480 --> 02:06:47,880 Speaker 2: you know, there was only six guys in the band 2142 02:06:47,960 --> 02:06:51,320 Speaker 2: and me and the tour manager. You know, besides the crew. 2143 02:06:51,400 --> 02:06:53,720 Speaker 2: Forget the crew, they weren't they weren't touching her alcohol. 2144 02:06:54,040 --> 02:06:56,840 Speaker 2: There were like four bottles of vodka, two bottles of 2145 02:06:56,920 --> 02:06:59,240 Speaker 2: are three bottles of Jack Daniels. I mean, it was 2146 02:06:59,360 --> 02:07:01,960 Speaker 2: like how to is how did these guys can? And 2147 02:07:02,080 --> 02:07:04,600 Speaker 2: there was one o'clock in the morning. Somebody was always 2148 02:07:04,600 --> 02:07:05,520 Speaker 2: looking for a drink. 2149 02:07:07,440 --> 02:07:11,440 Speaker 1: Rock and roll lifestyle. Anyway, Charlie, you lived it, You survived. 2150 02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:14,160 Speaker 1: You've been very open and honest. You told us some 2151 02:07:14,280 --> 02:07:16,840 Speaker 1: of the inside stories. I want to thank you so 2152 02:07:17,000 --> 02:07:19,960 Speaker 1: much for taking this time with my audience. Oh it's 2153 02:07:19,960 --> 02:07:20,800 Speaker 1: a it's a pleasure. 2154 02:07:21,880 --> 02:07:23,480 Speaker 2: You know, I'm a you know I'm a fan, and 2155 02:07:23,560 --> 02:07:26,040 Speaker 2: you know that you know that that you and I, 2156 02:07:26,160 --> 02:07:29,880 Speaker 2: you and I trade uh emails back and forth about 2157 02:07:29,960 --> 02:07:32,560 Speaker 2: things when when when things are going on so I was. 2158 02:07:32,760 --> 02:07:35,440 Speaker 2: I was actually very very honored to be asked to 2159 02:07:35,520 --> 02:07:38,840 Speaker 2: do the to do the podcast. And now now you 2160 02:07:38,920 --> 02:07:44,400 Speaker 2: gotta get corn. Absolutely, I'll tell them that it's painless. 2161 02:07:44,600 --> 02:07:44,760 Speaker 2: You know. 2162 02:07:45,600 --> 02:07:47,600 Speaker 1: You know I got it into it with an email 2163 02:07:47,720 --> 02:07:49,920 Speaker 1: the other day. We were emailing about something else and 2164 02:07:50,040 --> 02:07:53,720 Speaker 1: he kind of pushed it down the road. But if 2165 02:07:53,720 --> 02:07:56,120 Speaker 1: you could, but if you could play rod Y, give 2166 02:07:56,200 --> 02:07:58,920 Speaker 1: this story, that'll be good. 2167 02:07:59,400 --> 02:08:04,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I listen. I would listen to a podcast 2168 02:08:04,640 --> 02:08:06,760 Speaker 2: with you and him for however long it last. To 2169 02:08:06,800 --> 02:08:10,480 Speaker 2: trust me, I think I think I was. I was 2170 02:08:10,600 --> 02:08:12,480 Speaker 2: just I was. I was so blown away just by 2171 02:08:12,560 --> 02:08:16,560 Speaker 2: that that little back and forth and at the at 2172 02:08:16,600 --> 02:08:18,840 Speaker 2: the at the bon Jovie thing the other night, I thought, 2173 02:08:19,120 --> 02:08:21,000 Speaker 2: I thought that was just fascinating the two of you. 2174 02:08:22,280 --> 02:08:24,280 Speaker 1: Well, I could literally talk to you for hours. I 2175 02:08:24,400 --> 02:08:26,720 Speaker 1: love the stories, I love the thing. But we're gonna 2176 02:08:26,800 --> 02:08:30,000 Speaker 1: end it here. You got it, Charlie. At any event, 2177 02:08:30,160 --> 02:08:32,800 Speaker 1: till next time. This is Bob left six